The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Draft Outliers As Explained By Passover

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

Today, the guys discuss why the 2023 NFL draft is different from all other drafts and highlight which players stand out the most in this year’s class, as explained by Passover (1:21). Finally, they close with America’s favorite segment: Two Jargons, One Lie (61:53). Bryce Young, QB (5:45) Anthony Richardson, QB (13:30) Deuce Vaughn, RB (21:10) Darnell Washington, TE (24:46) Calijah Kancey, DT (31:20) Nolan Smith, Edge (35:52) Dawand Jones, OT (41:15) Emmanuel Forbes, CB (45:59) Devon Witherspoon and Christian Gonzalez, CB (51:47) Check out our 2023 Ringer NFL Draft Guide here! Email us! [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Ben Solak, Craig Horlbeck Producers: Craig Horlbeck and Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure those time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league. And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

NFL draft show. My name is Danny Hyfitz. I am joined by Danny, Kelly, Ben, Sulloch, and Craig Horlebeck, and we have a very different show for you here today. We're going to get into that just a moment, but first, our condolences. Craig Horle.

And Austin Gale, San Diego State, all-time run. Cam to an end. It did. But you know what? I couldn't be more proud and happy this team. If you told me at the start of the season

that we were going to make it to the fucking national championship game, I don't care how much we lost by. We cut it to five with five minutes left. We made it a game, even though we shot terribly. Just the coolest most gratifying experience ever. I couldn't be more proud.

Great crop of guys. I'm going to miss a lot of them. We have a very special show today. We've been talking about the Centifold draft a lot through the lens of, there's just a lot of players in this draft that are just different from the other players in past draft. They're built different. Is that Ford or Dodge? A built different draft.

Is that just the mean? Built Ford tough. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's either one. Almost. But there's just a lot of outliers in this draft.

Like there are just a lot of players that you look at that. And you're like, this is not like anything I've ever seen. And we wanted to talk about those guys this week. And then it occurred to me that this week is also Passover. And I am Jewish. And if you are not Jewish, you may not know this. But Passover is not like any other thing in Jewish religion. It's not like any other Jewish holiday.

Passover is not like any other cultural tradition in Judaism. Passover is like this one-of-one thing. In fact, one of the main parts of Passover is actually like a Q&A discussion on literally like the question there's a song and everything, why is this night different from all other nights? And I realized that that's actually the big question of this year's draft is why is this draft different from all other drafts? And then I started thinking about it and I was like,

oh my God, Passover in the NFL draft actually have a lot in common. Like the themes of Passover, it's about like renewal and rethinking and rebirth. It's about like liberation, new beginnings. And really it's like the hope of like the Passover spring. giving you the insight and the courage to create ourselves anew, which is really drafty. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah. But also, if that's not enough, on Passover, the name of the dinner you do is a Seder, which the literal meaning is an order. So Passover saved or Sater, like draft order. So you guys are not Jewish. However, I would like to invite you over to my Passover Seder. And I would like us together to answer this year's big. question, why is this draft different from all other drafts for a little draft Passover

Sater and what I'm sure is the most unhinged thing any podcast is ever talking? This is maybe a stretch even for us, but I love it. Yeah, like, we've done an Oscars episode. We did a March Madness Day. If it's open with like, we're doing an atypical episode today. And I was like, we have a typical episode? Good point. Yeah, we never just come in and we're like, all right, top 10 D-Linman.

Like, that's just not our vibe. I think we should do that one year It's just like 14 days out from the draft We should just drop on the pod Like favorite day three guards Do the whole thing straight face Yeah Maybe we take mushrooms at the beginning

And then like 40 minutes in We just start talking about whatever We're really gonna have to lean on Hyvitz For this episode though You know what I mean? Like I can't really comment on a lot of this stuff I don't know Well it's it's draft pass so

Well I'm not worried about it But really though So we can do it we could set the table a little bit here. And there is like a little, like, plate at the center of the, of the sater table with a lot of things that are metaphors and foods. And they kind of represent the draft. We got the carpos that's like parsley promise of spring. You got the moror, the bitter herbs.

So you never forget the bitterness of the past. You still carry with you, which is, I mean, that's big time for Jets right there. Jets fans. I like that. They understand that. The Caroset, which is like sweet nuts and it's like fused with paste. It's basically like an ancient nutra grain bar. It's supposed to represent mortar, like literally brick and mortar.

and foundation. Like, there's a lot, there's a lot going on here. So we can keep those visuals in mind. There's also something to represent like a, like a lamb that was sacrificed, which I choose to believe is like Trey Lance. Um, wow. Oh, oh. Trey lamb. Tray lamb. All right, but the, the big, the big thing with the Passover Seder is the four questions of Passover. Now, we're going to go out, we're going to go like more like eight, ten questions. But, uh, the Jewish tradition on Passover, and this is wonderful for us, is the youngest child at the table must read four questions and the elders answer and so since young ben solac is the is the youngest child at the table solac himself is going to go through and read each of these questions and then

mr david kelly can answer and then we've kind of got a little Q&A till we come to uh you know a general understanding and so this is good i like this like i get to host because i'm a kid and because it's Passover. This is the only way we can get Ben to host a show in the Ringer NFL network, larger family, is just with Passover themes. There you go. So there you go. So young Ben Solek, take us away here. The first question of draft Passover. First question of draft Passover. Why is Alabama's Bryce Young different from all other quarterbacks? Well, Ben, I'm glad you asked. Bryce Young, he's a bit of a double outlier. He's different in multiple ways. Number one, he is going to be one of the shortest first round quarterbacks ever. He will be the shortest first round quarterback

taken ever, assuming he goes in the first round. And he's also one of the lightest two. So not only short, but very slight. And that makes him maybe the biggest outlier of this draft of the last few drafts that we've seen. He has a chance to go number one overall. There's rumors he's going to be the first overall

pick. If not, he's going to be probably the second overall pick. And we've never seen... Lanzer line mock today had Bryce Young going one to the Panthers and then the Texans passing on quarterback at two. Ooh, because they won Bryce which is like bananas. People get bored doing this.

Yeah, it's a long process. I would make the percent chance that the Texans pick a quarterback at two. I would make it like 99%. I would not make it 100% at this time. But, you know, separate conversation. So the bottom line with Bryce Young is guys his size, not only have never been taken, quarterback's his size specifically,

not only have never been taken in the first round, but they've barely been taken in like the first five rounds. Like this is the type of player, the size of this guy is a type of player you take in like six round. So this is a massive, massive shift for the NFL. So like you wrote a really good piece in this to the ringer where you basically laid out that there's only like three first-run quarterbacks that have been taken who are under six feet tall.

And then there's basically, Bryce Young's his listed weights 204. That's fake. He's like he's like 190. So it's like he'd be the, even just the height and the weight. It's a complete outlier. And so I'm curious with you guys like, I don't want to glance over this. why is it bad to be so short at this level and separately so slender? And then I'm curious if you guys think that Brice Young can overcome that or if it's worth it.

But like, why is this a problem? Short is like a seeing over the offensive line throwing to the middle of the field sort of a thing. Right? If you watch, I don't encourage anybody to like go watch some Bryce Young film, watch some Bryce Young highlights and just watch how he stands in the pocket. He's on his tiptoes a lot. And it's just because he needs to be at. as upright as he can be to get the vision on the field he needs to play the position.

That's not, it's not like, oh, he's on his tiptoes. That's bad. But, like, when it's time now to throw with power, you've got to put your heels back down under the ground, right? And so, like, there's that aspect of it in terms of seeing down the field. The slender aspect of it is about body armor. It's about taking hits, right? The other quarterbacks who were similarly short and relatively similarly slight,

where guys like, and we're drafting the first round, where guys like Kyla Murray, Michael Vick, and Johnny Mansell. All three of those guys, much more prolific runners than Bryce Young was in college. And if you're going to be this size and you're going to run around, you're going to potentially take hits when you're running, you have to worry about injuries. If you're not going to run around that much, if you're going to stay in the pocket and try to be a pocket passer,

you're not going to take bigger hits from bigger players. And there's a concern that if you're not the most athletic quarterback, the way like a Vic was the way that a Kyla was, you're not going to be able to run around. You're not going to be able to protect yourself. And according to, you're going to accumulate a lot of heads on a slender body, and that's going to shorten your career.

And so the differing concerns, but that's why you're worried about short, you're worried about slight. And then we have them both in the same package, like D.K. said, now it's doubly worrisome. And yet, he is maybe likely to be the number one overall pick in the NFL draft.

So clearly it's not that big of a deal to these teams. I think we're assuming that he will be the first overall pick. Well, I'm just saying if he goes one or two, I mean, these are huge problems. We're talking about unprecedented problems. and yet he's still going to be a top two, three pick in the draft. I feel like if you're going to be that small and successful, you need a superpower. And I'm curious, D.K., does Bryce Young have his superpower?

See, good enough to be going top three at his, with his problems. Well, he had 79 passing touchdowns on like 12 picks in college. That's pretty good. But I also do stats in college. You know, it's like, what is his thing? Like, when I watch him, I feel like the creativity is amazing. Is it like, is it the, like, you have him as Fran Tarkinton meets Jason Kidd in your draft guide at NFLdraft.com.

Yeah. Why is he like Jason kid? Which is funny, because if you're like 18 years old, you just have no idea what that sentence means. I know. You're not 18. I've seen a friend. I've seen a friend Targeting clip on Twitter before. Is Ben just identifying with 18-year-olds now?

Ben, what are you? 25? 26. I'm 26, but in this space, whenever anybody says 18-year-olds, they usually mean me. And they're just being pejorative. And so it's just an instinct at this point. I only know Fran Tarkintin's fast from like the Maddenal like Hall of Fame on Locke team, but that's that's that's that's a lot of lie

Fran Tarkinton actually he did a tweet the other day and I say did a tweet like I'm I know a tweet I know how Tarkinton are you as old as Fran Tarkington pretty cool I guess like in terms of yeah on the spectrum I'm closer to him probably than to you guys he he did a tweet and he essentially said I invented scrambling which is maybe not necessarily That's such a good tweet. Like it's too long ago to fact check him. They didn't keep records back then.

So let's be honest, maybe he did invent scrambling. But anyway, he was the guy who popularized it just with his guile and just running around evading the pressure and making these ridiculous plays

and he did it consistently. And that's, I think, all very true for Bryce Young. But his superpower, if there is one, is his ability to evade the rush keep his eyes downfield and even if he takes his eyes off the

like his receivers downfield he seems to know where they're going at all times. He has a very good spatial awareness ability to like synthesize coverages and all that stuff. You know and this is another interesting point that I've been listening hearing on different podcasts. There's this test called the S2 test which is sort of

replacing the wonder lick. It's basically how fast can you process. I don't know exactly how it works Ben. Maybe you can enlighten us a little bit but like basically it's like they're given it's all these different test, like how quickly you can identify what shape is different in a, like a really quick, like they'll flash a bunch of shapes and you pick out, like, which one is different or whatever.

Like, it's like these really quick, how quickly can you process and pick out and process and eliminate and things like that? From what I heard, Bryce Young scored tops among all the quarterbacks at the S2 test this year. Guess who was the first last year? Craig, you're going to love this. Kenny Pickett. Brock Purdy, baby.

Brock Purdy. Of course. Oh, my God. How could I have missed that? While we're speaking about Hall of Famers, like Brock Purdy, actually I just texted you guys. Fran Tarkin did it. In fact, Solac was not exaggerating. He literally said, quote, I invented scrambling.

I said it. That was D.K. D.K. said it. When I'm an old man, I'm going to do that incessantly. You're going to be hanging out with my grandkids. They're going to pour some milk into cereal. And I'm like, I invented that, John. People weren't putting milk in cereal before me.

Like, that was me. And they're like, that's crazy, grandpa. If you Google who invented scrambling, the first thing that pops up is Fran Tarkington. There you go. Google never lies. He's got SEO on it now, all right? He's generating a good brand. The encyclopedia Britannica says that he invented scrambling.

Emails at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. If you have any like family members or grandparents that just kind of claim they invented something. There's always some. No, no. I invented that. I invented claiming you invent, actually Fran Tarkin invented something. Dang it. I've been had.

All right. Next up here, Solek. Take us to the second question of draft passover. Yeah. So same position, other direction. Why is Florida's Anthony Richardson different than all quarterbacks? Good question, Ben. Here's the answer.

Anthony Richardson, he's different because he's the most athletic quarterback prospect ever. The most athletic guy that's ever tested at that combine. He broke the combine record for vertical jump, 40 inches, 40 and a half inches. He broke the combine record for quarterbacks in the broad jump. he ran a 4-4-3 40-yard dash, which is absolutely ludicrous. If you look at the other quarterbacks in that ballpark, they're all like 20 to 30 pounds lighter than Anthony Richardson.

He is an extreme outlier for athleticism, and that is the main and maybe only reason that people are really, really excited about him as a top five pick. Maybe, I mean, I think that he did flash him. I think, Ben, we're going to talk about that. He did flash some high-level quarterback traits in addition to being really, really athletic, but like the athletic traits, the size,

the frame, that is what makes him different than every other quarterback in this class. And in most quarterbacks ever. So I just finished charting Anthony Richardson. I take him one overall, man. I just, I can't. Like, the more I watch him, I've said from the jump, he's further along than people think. And the more I watch him, the more I just go, all right, like, he's late less than people talk about.

He's remarkably more accurate than people talk about. And when he's late, it doesn't matter because he has makeup velocity. and when he's inaccurate, it still matters, obviously, because you're missing and everything like that. But it's not like he's like throwing interceptible passes. It's not like he's like missing open receivers. Oftentimes he's trying to make throws with like too perfect displacement

and he's trying to like, you know, manage the mechanics correctly and you've got to let him be a little bit more natural. I, I walked into the Anthony Richardson hype way back in December, very skeptic and now here in early April, I'm fully sold. Like I find his,

I find his film so compelling. I find his, his, I think the number one thing is, I just think the, the myth around how much of a project he is grossly overstated. He could walk out for the Carolina Panthers tomorrow and I would pick him to win the division. Like, I finish his film and I'm in love with him. I love him so much. I feel like he gets the rep as being like raw or whatever because, so he's kind of a double

outlier because he threw, he didn't even throw 400 passes in college. And actually, I got this from ESPN. In the last 40 years, the only first round quarterbacks with fewer pass attempts, than Anthony Richardson, who went in the first round, are Trey Lance and Michael Vic. So we'll have the third fewest pass attempts of any quarterback to go in the first round. And so I think that's honestly sticking out the Passover theme, kind of like, he's like the matzah of this whole thing.

Like Anthony Richardson's the unleavened bread, who we didn't have time for him to rise. It's just he came out. Like, we got to go. We got to get this guy. Wow. Are you saying that he is developed, even though he threw like 390 throws in college?

There's, I think, a sensation for when a quarterback is like a full project that you're like out there and they don't know. what they're doing. Richardson absolutely knows what he's doing. He understands, like, how he's supposed to go through his reads, how he needs to look off of safeties, how to buy time in the pocket. Like, he is like, they're running back who are to pick up a blitz and he'll, like, reset his feet and buy a half second.

Like, it's mature stuff. Like, he knows, like, the big boy quarterbacking things. The lack of reps is why it's not yet, like, perfectly ingrained. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to think of a good, like, like, in real life example. But, like, you know, like, the, like, the, uh, When you first time you go to ride a bike, all right, stage one, you have no idea how to keep the bike upright. Stage two, the bike stays upright for like three or four or five pedals, but then it starts to wobble.

You don't really know how to like figure it back out. So you have to put a foot down and hop yourself back up. Like that's where Richardson is. He's not in stage one where he's just like, I don't know what I'm doing out here. I can kind of throw the ball far and run around. Like he absolutely gets how it's supposed to work. He's felt like he's had good reps. He knows what it's supposed to be.

And now it's just about ingraining it. Now it's about just making it habit. I think he's like again like you get him with a Frank Reich man like I'm I'm there will be Anthony Richardson rookie of the year betts plays with unbelievable swiftness. TK. When you hear this kind of athleticism, I feel like we always think about hitting the ceiling, which is ironic because that is pro-day Anthony Richardson literally hit the ceiling. And I guess that's like the new tread now is everyone's going to throw a ball into the

ceiling to make a point. I feel like I could do that. You know, everybody says I could like hit a home run or whatever. That's bullshit. I could never hit a home run. I feel like if I threw it hard enough, I could hit the ceiling in one of these places. It's not that hard.

Come on. Yeah, for sure. Coach, me goats. I can win the final four. Yeah, I could do. If I crow hopped and like, you know, threw my arm out, I could probably hit the ceiling.

Anyway, continue. I'm curious if you think athleticism at quarterback is actually about ceiling or if it's more that sets the baseline of how good Anthony Richardson could be. Like, is he really going to bust if Anthony Richardson is this fast, this big, and they could put him in an offense?

Like, you know, some, training wheels and then how he develops as a passer as the ceiling? Or do you, or how do you look at it? Yeah. So there is this argument out there, and I think it makes a lot of sense that he actually has a higher floor than some of these other quarterbacks because he can move and because you can design a run game around him and you can make the foundation of your offense, this read option game where you're adding an extra gap, you're really enhancing and making the run game very, very difficult to defend. And then you kind of work from there as that's like the foundation. Then you work from

there like you do play action because your run game is really you know stressing the defense you give him some of these easy one read throws where you know what i mean like this is the progression that you could take with him because he has that foundation as a as a runner and we see this with like you know justin fields in chicago they're not they're asking him to run a ton because basically they just need time to get more guys around him and develop but i think the other thing about like the quote unquote like development of anthony richson it's like the same with any other quarterback that's coming into the NFL. I think it's so important how the first few years of his career goes.

And Hyphids, you talk about this all the time, nature versus nurture, like, are they going to nurture him? Are they going to get guys around him? Are they going to have a good offensive line? Are they going to have a support system where he can actually develop on a normal timeline and is not asked to, like, carry this team on his back because it's just not going to happen. And for 99% of quarterbacks coming into the league, like that's just too hard of an

ask to like carry, like even Trevor Lawrence a couple years ago, came in, He had a bad coach, had a really bad support system. Everything went wrong that you could possibly think of with the Jags. And he could not lift that team out of the rut. And there was a lot of people saying he was like a bust after one year. Obviously, he's turned things around. And the team has turned things around more importantly around him. So I think the rawness thing is something that gets talked about a lot,

but there's gray areas when it comes to development. And like he has some of these high-level traits, I think, the way he moves around in the pocket like Ben was talking about. he tries to do the right thing, which is, you know, at least he knows sort of what the right thing is. There's some quarterbacks to come into the NFL, and they literally, like, don't know how to play football.

They don't know how to run an offense, and you have to, like, teach them from scratch, like Mitch Trubesky, for instance. And so I think it's overblown, and I think really what's more important is just what kind of system he gets into, how they develop them, if they can do the right things along the way, like, you know, the Jalen Hertz's,

trajectory has been a good example of this. Like he came in, he was a backup for a while. He came in as a starter. They didn't like ask him to do too much. They had him run a bunch. And then they got really good weapons around him. And eventually he's turning into like a high level quarterback. And so I think hopefully that's what happens with Richardson.

Go to NFLDraft.orgher.com. If you want to read DK. Scouting reports in the quarterbacks or any of these guys. So like take us through the next question of draft pass over. Yeah, easy one now. This is a very soft picture of the plate. Why is Kansas States deuce Vaughn different from all other running backs? Well, Ben, it's because he is a Shetland pony of a person. He is the smallest person ever to be measured at the NFL convite.

That's just crazy to say that. That's kind of a tough sign at running back. It's not something that people aspire to do. Zeroth percentile in height, first percentile in weight. Zeroth percentile, zeroth. Does that you say that? Zeroth. I accept

lowest I didn't even know you could be in the zero with percentile you can it doesn't exist it's first in 99 I think that means

your last fair enough and that actually reminds me I'm trying to pick I'm trying to find the tweet or the text chain

but Nora so nicely texted all of us and explain to us what Shetland ponies because there was a lot of questions like why are these ponies so small

Ben can you enlighten us thanks to Nora we dismerged the name of the Shetland pony and we were like why do these things exist and it turns out, it's because they worked in the coal mines, right?

Because they were low to the ground so they could get in there, lugs some carts, but they were sturdy because they were horses and they were wide. And so they could handle the tough terrain of the coal mine, which, you know, shout out with Shetland ponies. Hope you guys don't have black lung. Hope you guys are doing okay. Jeez. Yeah, no, there's a huge class action lawsuit, a bunch of Shetland ponies suing the coal mines.

But what is like the coal mine of the NFL game? They don't make ponies like they used to, you know what I mean? The Shetland ponies. Back of the day, man, it's a shetland pony. What's the NFL version? I don't know how to say this politely. Sorry to Mr. and Mrs. Vaughn, but what can Deuce Vaughn do on a field?

Like, he can't block if his arms are the shortest ever for a running back. Like, what's he going to, what is the situation he's on the field? I think that's, that is the problem is he's so small. He's a pretty good cut blocker. I'm not going to lie. Like, in terms of like the cup block where you just put your shoulder into a guy's like thighs. He's great. He's got natural leverage, man.

It's his aiming point anyway. He's a good cut blocker. We can watch one, Phil. why would anyone take him over a different running back who's similarly profiled? Who's not 5'5? The production, the versatility, the can't knock him overness that he has,

like he's just this little guy, like he plays with such good leverage. He's like, Anne Bland, he's just, you can't knock him over. Well, let's say football, low man wins, so maybe he's the best player ever. I think it's honestly, though, just like if we're being realistic

and serious for a minute here, he's not going to go high in the draft. Like, he's going to fall. because he's tiny. But he may end up lasting in the league for a little while because he can do everything and do it well. He's just very small. He's a good pass catcher.

He was very durable in college. He's pretty athletic. Like he was ripping off big runs, even though I wouldn't say he's like Darren Sproles explosive. He's pretty athletic. He just has a really well-rounded skill set. Literally the only thing that's wrong. And this is like the Bryce Young thing is like he's just tiny.

And so, yeah, teams are probably not going to pick him earlier. than like, I don't know, six round or something like that. But, um, oh, wow. Fifth, six, I don't know. What do you think, Ben? Yeah, I would say like six, seven. He's just, he's so small. Um, I will say when we did 50 shades of running back comps and D.K.

gave him, if Maurice Jones drew, had a tapeworm. I have received multiple text messages DM people, highlighting that as one of the greatest moments in show's history. It's tough to argue with them. Oh, that's good. DGJ with a tapeworm will live forever. Yeah, it's incredible. So, like, take us through the next

Passover draft question. All right. Why is Georgia's darnel, Washington? Different from all other tight ends. Oh, that's a good question, Ben. One of the biggest targets a QB will ever have in NFL history. I'm curious to see how long D.K. can keep up sounding enthusiastic about my question.

It's like, we're doing like a children's educational show or something. I'm like channeling how I would answer a question with Calvin. Great question, Ben. He's massive, massive human being. He has the longest. Sorry, he's the same wingspan as a 7 foot three person as Janus, if that gives you an idea. His wingspan is absolutely ludicrously long. And he's very, very athletic for being six foot six, 264 pounds.

I think he plays closer to 280-something pounds. He's slimmed down a bit for the combine. But he is a, he's essentially like a small tackle, but he plays tight end. His hands are almost as big as Shacks. Jesus, that's crazy. Him having the same wingspan as Yonis is pretty, wild. Well, no, sorry, it's not that his wingspan is the same as Janus. It's that his wingspan is equal to Janus's height. Like, if he put out his arms, that's how tall Janus is. What?

Yeah. No, no, no, I think, no, because you have here that Janus is not 7.3. That his wingspan is 7.3. Okay. I misread my own writing. That's pretty incredible. That's tough. That's relatable. That's relatable. I've been there. Yeah. 11 inch hands is always to me. It's like, it's so, it's so good. It's such a good measurement because people like all the time people say like you bring up these these these measurements i don't know what they mean like 33 inch arms like what is that 11 inch hands think about a piece of paper think about the long way of a piece of paper long side yeah get your thumb on one edge and your pinky on the other edge long ways not gonna have that's 11 inches that's how big that guy's hands is he could crumple up a piece

of paper with one hand starting from the outside our macbooks i'm on a 13 inch macbook right now and I'm like trying to imagine my hand was big enough to almost touch the whole thing. You know who he's like, he's almost exactly like Kauai Leonard. I mean, he's a little shorter than Kauai Leonard, but Kauai Leonard is like 6-8. He has a 73 wingspan and he has 11.25 inch hands. And Kauai is an absolute freak in the NBA. And darn out Washington seems to have almost the exact same specs. Pretty crazy.

All right. So with that said, he had like 400 yards or whatever in college. So is he a first rounder? That's the thing. Is this basically a really good blocking tight end? that might be able to do stuff after the catch, but realistically he's going to have like two catches for 35 yards every game, and you're actually going to end up leaving him on like waivers and fantasy football.

Like, is that person worth taking in the first round? If he just does that, or are you saying he's going to be a good receiver too? Ben, I want you to answer this. That was a good old standoff between me and D.K. I would like to take him. in the first round because it's funny. He's huge.

He'd be a great blocker. He's stay in the field a ton. He's got a lot of value. Like in terms of personnel sets and disguising what you're going to do. He's got a really high ceiling. Is he going to catch the ball as much as we would expect, as frequently as we would expect, as we would expect, the first round tight end in this modern era of receiving tight ends?

Absolutely not. Like he's going to be like, I would say max out like a 500-yard receiver, 600-yard receiver sort of a guy. If he gets above that, it's multiple years down the road. And now you're talking about a second contract and big figures. So he's a very tricky guy to place. There are some teams where I think if they were to take him in the first round, I'd be like thrilled by it.

I think that's so, that makes a ton of sense. That's so cool. Like he'd be amazing in like Miami where they just like desperately need an actual impacts player in the running game, like a run blocker who they can leave on the field. And then occasionally throw him the ball and he'll be wide open. And he'll be a nightmare to tackle in space. all the stuff you have to deal with on that offense. I think it'd be great in Cincinnati.

Like to me, he makes a lot of sense for the Bengals in terms of the recent investments they've made in the running game, plus that having the past catching weapons that they don't need him to be a viable pass catcher. When they get it to him, they just kind of dump it off to him in space

and just letting him be bananas. Like, there's guys and teams for whom he makes sense. I think when push comes to stuff, he's not going to end up around one player. But I love him. Yeah, it's tough because I think the planet theory is there's not very many people on Earth

who are his size and moves. move like him. He had like the third fastest three cone time at the combine behind a receiver and a corner. And he's 260-something pounds. That's just absolutely ludicrous. That's the same. It's the moneyball cheesy thing. You're not any good. Yeah, he's good. He is good. Do you guys think that in general, teams in media are just more enamored with size and athleticism and physical attributes than we ever have been? We're better at developing people. So the runway for these athletes are wider. Like when you guys are bringing up, all these basketball comps for Darno Washington.

Well, guess what? In a different life, he's not playing football. He's always playing basketball. A guy this size with this bill, this linear, he's not an amazing change of direction. You'd be a basketball player. But now he has an opportunity to play football because we're getting better and better, better at figuring out how to use some of these athletes. So I think absolutely yes.

I think so the other thing that you have to keep in mind here, this is, I don't think this is an excuse necessarily. It's just like context. He played on the same team as Brock Bassett. who is probably going to be a top 10 pick next year. Like he's one of the, he's the best tight end in college football and has been for the last couple of years. Like absolutely ridiculously good tight end.

And so he was the guy who was catching a lot of passes. They were asking Darnel Washington to do a lot of blocking and, you know, sort of the dirty work tight end two stuff. Um, I think that teams could convince themselves that we turn this guy into our tight end one and he can do everything for us in the run game and in the passing game. He's not like, he's not like a really smooth,

twitchy route run or anything like that, but like he can get up the seam, he's really huge and effective in the red zone. He's actually pretty good, like, catcher of the football. Like, he has natural catching skills. Is it because of the 11 inch hands? That certainly would help. Yes, I think that would help.

And the fact that he towers over linebackers, like six foot two linebackers, like imagine that matchup, you know what I mean? And so I think that teams could talk themselves into this. He's also a former five star, like that matters to teams. I could see him going in the first round. All right, so, Lack, hit us with the next question for draft pass over.

Oh, this is going on. Why is Pittsburgh defensive tackle Collijah Cansey different than all other defensive tackles? Oh, that's an interesting question, Ben. Thank you for that. Thanks, Dad. Collagia Cancy, a hundredth percentile, I guess we've established that doesn't make any sense.

99th percentile in the 40-ar dash and zeroth-th-oneth-percentile. in arm-length. In other words, this guy, this guy is extremely, he's an extremely, extremely, extremely explosive fast T-Rex. He has very small arms. And that's a problem for defensive liniment.

That's a problem for any player, but especially defense alignment because they need to get, they need to keep guys off of their chest, they're off their frame. Like if you can, as a blocker, as an offensive lineman, if you can get into a guy's chest

and like lock in, it's difficult to disengage from that. And that's why you see, like Aaron Donald, He has longer arms than him. And Aaron Donald's really good with his hands, really strong punch, all that stuff. He can keep guys away from his body? The big question here is, can Can Cancy do that?

And the Aaron Donald comps keep coming because Aaron Donald went to pit and was short. But Aaron Donald's also, I think, the best athlete I've ever seen in person. Yeah, Collijah Cancy is a bowling ball, man. He's a mini fridge on a skateboard. Like, it's just not mini fridge on a skateboard. The lack of length is such an issue. Right? When we talk about sub 300, let alone sub 290 pound pass rushers on the interior in the NFL, who comes to mind? Like, name a good interior pass rusher who's sub 290.

Is Grady Jarrett sub 290? I don't know. Yeah. So, Grady Jarrett's like right around 295, I want to say. Like his weight of the combine was just under 300. Yeah, 291. So, okay, Grady Jarrett. Who else we got? I mean, no, I mean, he's fourth percentile in weight. There's nobody. Like, and also, Austin, Gil, also go Aztex. is Gail Sending of State. All right.

No tags. Austin sent us to note that in the last 10 years, no defensive lineman with arms as short as Kalaja Cancy has played 600 snaps in a single season. And 600 snaps is a really good barometer for just being a starting player.

In other words, he is a rotational sub-package guy, probably at best. So why is he a first rounder? Why is he going to go in the first round? Or will he just not? I don't know, brother. Nobody can explain it to me. They're like, well, did you watch him

that one pass rush? against Tennessee? And I'm like, yeah, did you watch the other 35 attempted pass rushes against Tennessee? Like, what are we doing? The thing is, like, when you get guys who are this light, who are still good rushers, they're usually super long because they're able to keep the play, keep the body away from their frame. They're able to beat the guard further away from their body.

Cancy does not have that in him. So when the ball snapped, Cancy stands up straight, he's six foot. and then he just tries to like cross over the guard. Like he's trying to do like basketball stuff. Like blow by him and like get underneath him. If it ever becomes an actual battle of like strength and power in the trenches, which spoiler alert, most trench plays end up like I have my two hands on you. You have your two hands on me.

Let's see who wins. He doesn't, he doesn't have NFL caliber ability. Like I am stunned that he is a round one guy. I am shocked that people view him as like a. high caliber pass rush in the league. I'm not there in Collage Cansey. This is not necessarily the same thing, but like if you go back a couple years,

Puna Ford, he was the Big 12 defensive alignment of the year, like really explosive for his size. He was checked in at 511, like 300-ish pounds. But he was 5-11. And this is the thing that we're talking about.

He went undrafted. Like he was really productive, but he was very short, not very much length there. He went undrafted. And we're talking about Collaja Cancy as a first rounder. I'm not saying that Collaja Cancy is Puna 4. And I think Klaja Kansi has a very good argument to go like early day two or day three.

Or sorry, early second round or third round. But the idea that he goes in the first round is an interesting one because he is an absolute outlier size-wise. Yeah. And like Puna was 300. Puna could play the nose. Like, Kansi can't. Kansi is only going to get on the field in third downs.

and it's only going to get a sort of pass rush profile with which he can be successful if the entire rush is predicated the idea of giving him a two-way go against a garden space. I said, juice is not worth the squeeze for me. I can't get there. All right. Well, next step, someone who's juice is worth to squeeze. Solek. Next passover question here.

Why is George's Nolan Smith, baby? Different than all other pass rushers. Great question, Ben. Thanks, Danny. Thought of it myself. He is one of the fastest past. rushers ever and also one of the smallest. Six foot two,

238 pounds. He has a 99th percentile 40R dash, 98th percentile vertical jump, second percentile for weight. He runs and jumps like he's a wide receiver essentially. Like if you look at, he's like a DK Metcalfe level athlete, but he plays pass rusher and he's six foot two,

238 pounds. Actually, can they just turn him into a receiver? That might be kind of fun. I was going to say, why isn't he just like a tight end or wide receiver? His measurables are like if Cordero Patterson Gade 15 pounds Like what was in the water in like 2000 or 2001

All these guys are great athletes but just small Like does that say something about the league Or is that just a weird quirk of this year? Yeah so it says something about the league It goes back to the darn old Washington conversation In another world this guy to be playing basketball Like it's not that there's an increase In 235 pounders who are very fast

that play edge. It's that these bodies, guys you can carry up to 235, 2040 pounds, who are great athletes, we are now putting them at edge rusher, whereas previously we put them at running back and they only carried 225.

Previously we put them at wide receiver and they only carried 220. Previously we put them at tight end and they carry 240. Right now, like we've, 15 years ago, you could not conceive of a sub 250 pound pass rusher. Now we got a lot of them.

And so it's okay. You know, Nolan Smith, you're coming up and we're seeing what your frame is, seeing what you're going to look like, seeing your athleticism. All right, where do you want to play? Playing the office side of the ball,

defense side of the ball. Okay, you're a crazy recruit. You go to Georgia. Where's Georgia wants you? Pass rusher. They want you to go outside linebacker. That's where they want you. And so you put your reps there and now you're going to play in the league there.

Previously, that body type never made it to the defense side of the ball at pass rush. If anything, they were playing linebacker, right? And so it's changing parameters for these positions that then create guys who are like, oh, he's the third fastest edge ever. It's like, yeah, well, he's also,

one of the lightest edges ever. That's not an accident. That's how that happened. That's correlated. From the same thing, Austin sent us. So again, 600 snaps as a baseline because that's like a good rough thing as a starter. Austin's, only three players weighing under 240 pounds have played 600 snaps in the last three years. Like it's a pass rusher. And like one of the, only one of them's good. It's a son Reddick. So that combined was something I saw from Bruce Feldman, the athletic this week. He had a bunch of like anonymous quotes from college coaches and stuff. And the thing on Nolan Smith was basically they're like, Nolan Smith's really really athletic. from an anonymous coach.

But I don't know if the athleticism translates to the game tape. I do think he's really good football player, but you felt like if you could get your hands on him, you could control him. I worry he's going to get swallowed up by those big tackles. DK, this feels like the kind of player that if it goes wrong, it'll be very quick and very obvious.

And if it goes right, it will take a couple years. Would you take Nolan Smith in the first rounder? Do you think the athleticism does translate to the game tape? Yeah, I do. I do think there is a concern that he's too small. I mean, I think that's legitimate. This is why he's an outlier.

Like, it is a concern. It's a legitimate concern. However, I do think I see the athleticism on one tape. Like, I see the explosion, the natural ability to bend and turn and flint to the quarterback and get back into the pocket, all that stuff that you look for at the edge rusher position. It's like he has all that stuff. I just think the big question is, can he get into a situation where he's not going to be getting enveloped or overwhelmed by bigger tackles?

You know what I mean? Like have to put him in the position where he's rushing. off like wide. Don't put him in at like right over the top of the tackle and hope he's going to like take on big blocks and stuff in the run game and all that stuff. Like put him on the edge, let him rush, you know, try and put him in situations where he's going to be able to use that off less than speed versus, you know, there's a lot of like there's Will McDonald is another example of really small guy coming into the NFL.

Like, you know, and in his system, they played him, I think like a four eye or like heads up with the with an offensive tackle where like that's just not going to be a good situation for this guy in the NFL. So I think it is about landing spot and fit with Nolan Smith. And the size is a legitimate concern. However, I still would be willing to take him in the first round because I think the explosiveness, the athleticism, the versatility. I'm going to put him at receiver.

I actually looked it up at the RAS, the RAS score, the relative athletic score. He would be a 10.0. He'd be the most athletic receiver of all time. I compared him in D.K. McCaff and D.K. McCaff was a 9.6.7, so like one of the top. guys ever. And Nolan Smith is a just 10, all-time best. That quote from the coach kills me. We really felt like if we got our hands on him, we could control him. But if they had a 240-pound edge, you get hands-on and you couldn't control him, that player would be Lawrence Taylor and Barnett. What are we talking about? We got hands on it. We can control him. I'd hope so. You got 70 pounds

on him, man. You better. The coach quotes are always incredible to me. I love them so much. So he kind of contradicts himself. He says he's really athletic, but it doesn't show up on tape. and then he says he's talented explosive twitchy. What? Okay. I don't know. I'm not sure what he's saying. Coaches are great.

We might need to do a whole episode on anonymous quotes. But next up, all right, let's do our next passover draft question. Why is Ohio State's DeWan Jones different from all other offensive tackles? Oh, good question. DeWan Jones.

What is with this bit, TK? I love it. I really like it. I thought it would get, I thought it would get like lighter, like less exaggerated as we went on. It's getting more exaggerated. I'm loving it.

the damnedest things. Ben, you just say the damnedest things. I love it. He might be the biggest offensive lineman in human history. 98th percentile height, 99th percentile weight, 98th percentile wingspan, 98th percentile arm length, 99th percentile hand size. This is a large human being, six foot eight, three hundred and seventy four pounds. They call him big Thanos. There you go. Like the Avengers. I like that they just don't, like Thanos isn't enough as if he wasn't already

Big Thanos. No, no, no. He's like, big Thanos. Speaking of the wingspan, again, 7 foot for wingspan, which is like the Janus wingspan or Kevin Durant's wingspan. But he's 130 pounds heavier than Kevin Durant. Phanos is 8 foot three, according to my research. And in the Marvel comics, he's 6'7.

So should we call him Little Thanos? Wow. They haven't made him plant on shoes for the movies. He was standing on a box while they were filming Endgame, man. Anyways, he's a large, large human being. And he, this is the question with like the Nolan Smith versus DeWan Jones. It'd be fun to watch these two go up against each other. Because, you know, he just engulfs people.

He just, if he gets his hands on you, it's over because he's so big and so strong and so physical and so heavy. Just like you can't escape his grasp. It's like he has a gravity. You can't escape his gravity. there's an event horizon. If you get too close to him, you're not getting away. It's like you're sucked into his,

his gravity. So there's that. You know, he's obviously got question marks about his foot speed, his ability to like deal with speed off the edge. But he's a big,

huge, like power tackle. I think he's best on the right side and, you know, he could just go out there and manhandle guys. But, you know,

you have to maybe have to help him against speed or whatever, like do things to like make sure he's not going to get, out the edge. But he has such good length. It's actually kind of hard to run around him. Austin said, Austin had some great research for us. And he noted that, so DeWan Jones, his 10-yard split in the 40-yard dash was basically

1.9 seconds. And it was really slow. Basically, there's basically been in the 21st century, one offensive tackle to be that slow in the 40-yard dash and actually play in the NFL. And it's like Morgan Moses. Yeah, but there's like two guys his size ever. Is the thing. Here, like, draft simplifications are always tricky,

but one that I firmly and truly believe in is that there's a threshold, right? Where if you're just this big, you're a good tackle. Like, not the best, not like a tier one, tier two tackle, but you're a functional starting tackle. And DeWan, like, Orlando Brown has passed that tier. Jordan Milata's past that tier. Daniel Filet, the fourth round pick out of Minnesota who's with the Ravens right now. He's past that tier.

And DeWan Jones past that tier. It is hard to get around enormous people. And it's hard to get around or through large, enormous people. And so Duane Jones is good. And that's all the information I need. So basically high in the NFL, it's like if you're like on the short end, like Kyler, Bryce shown the questions, are you tall enough to ride the ride? But eventually if you're Dewan Jones, you're like, actually, buddy, you're so tall,

you are the ride. Are you big enough to get around me? No. Did you know that this man, his first love is basketball and he got D1 offers to play basketball? Would he be the heaviest basketball player ever? What about Zion? This dude is 375 pounds. That's not how much Zion weighs.

I just heard about Zion being overweight for like six months. I don't know what he. Dude, this guy is 25 pounds away from being 400 pounds. Oh my gosh. Do you want offers to my college basketball? That's unbelievable. Also, he's 6-6. How could he?

Like, he's 6-8, 380. How could you not? Man, Lou, you should look at photos of him playing basketball. It's insane. The funny thing about Dwan Jones, too, is like 79% of his weight is just like in his solar plexus. Like, he is so top-heavy.

He's just, his build is unbelievable. He's got a wing. Wingspan. Craig, how big, do you, do you know approximately

how heavy Shaq was near the end of his playing career? I think Shaq was like 320 or something. Really? Okay. I don't, Shaq was not 380. Yeah.

It was also tall. Yeah, Shaq was like 7-1 or something. All right. So, like, give us, give us our next draft passover question.

Why is it This is six seconds long. Why is Emmanuel Forbes different from all other cornerbacks? Terrible question. This one sucks. Wow. Just kidding. Just kidding.

Great question. He's 166 pounds. He's tiny. Six foot one, 6 foot one, 166. Wow. That's skinny. Zeroth percentile and weight of our quarterbacks.

Again, I don't know where we're getting these percentiles, but it's very small. Oneth percentile. first. Yeah. I think it's how that No, one. We established one at the beginning of the show.

We're going to keep one from here on now. Oh, Christ. Craig, I'm losing it. Well, something about first percentile is confusing. Oh, sorry. Say about first percentile is confusing because that sounds like top percentile and it sounds like it's one thing. It's one thing but a word?

That's not a word. No. You've been saying it this entire time. Have I made it? God, it sounded right. Tell me you're like a really sleep-deprived father without telling me. his sleep-deprival. Yeah, Calvin,

Calvin is, stop me if you heard this before. He's sick again. So I'm watching him today. He should just play quarterback for the Ravens. It sounds like Emmanuel Forbes is sick too. That man needs to put on some weight.

1606. Yeah. Well, to be clear, we reduce Vaughn is eight inches shorter than Emmanuel Ford's Forbes and 13 pounds heavier. Oh, man. Wow.

Yes. Emmanuel Forbes is a string bean. it is not tenable, right? Let's read off some other sub 175 pound corners. Stop me when we hit a name that you know. Marvin Love, Cedric Williams, Kevin Brooks. Okay, Nicol Robby Coleman. Hamper's.

Any Hamperers fans in the chat? Who's anybody big on Hamper's? Hamph? Bruce Johnson. Willery Fontino? Anybody on Willery Fontineau? Richard Robinson, Jack Jones. He's with the Patriots.

Scott Starks. Jeremetrius Butler You know, you messed up This should have been two jargons and a lie. Yeah, yeah, it's very true. I don't think you can play at this size. I was going to say, practically speaking, what's the problem here, Ben?

Like, he's just going to get manhandled. You can't hold up. Like, you're going to, when receivers go to play you with physicality, right, win at the catch point, they're going to have 50 pounds on you. When you go to tackle a ride receiver, tackle a running back,

you're not going to have stopping power. And the hits are going to, accumulate and it's going to shorten your career. Like, it's just you need muscle mass. You need density to play in the NFL. It is a physical contact sport. And Emmanuel Forbes, not for not trying, just simply can't put it on, right? And like, I would have said all the same things about Devante Smith.

And Devonte Smith is out here just like bouncing off of contact like he's made of rubber. Like he's made of elastic. But he is the exception that proves the rule. So anytime anybody goes, oh, but Devante Smith, it's like, yes, the reason why he comes to your mind is because he's the only, one. He's the shining example and he stands alone as a guy with a super slender ability who can hang. Other than that, it's just, it's not tenable. There's a chance this guy's a second rounder. It seems like he's got quite a bit of buzzed. He's going to be really good if he's asked to match up with Tutu Atwell though. I know that much.

Imagine that matchup. A high school wide receiver corner battle right there. Hopefully it's not windy. I would love to watch a documentary series about guys trying to put on weight, like, as a professional athlete. That's the thing. So, I mean, he's 166 pounds at the combine. But we all know Bryce Young put on like 15 pounds of whatever weight, like, for the combine just to lose it for his pro day. What is Emmanuel Forbes actually playing at if his official measurement at the combine is 166? This is what I was saying when we talked about, like, Bryce Young, number one, Zay Flowers is another example. He gained like eight or nine pounds in the

process. The ability, like the sheer actual ability. ability to gain weight is telling the NFL something. Like, I am capable of gaining weight. I think a lot of these guys that come in way smaller and way lighter than, you know, teams are thinking or expecting, like, that's a worrisome thing because they cannot,

literally cannot gain weight. That's why we did the Passover episode. We need to get these guys a Jewish grandmother. All these teams need have a Jewish grandmother and retainer. Just they make these kids get your skin and bones, Emmanuel. Drink a shake like four times a day. I don't care.

Do something. How quickly do you think you could put on eight pounds? Oh. Like in a week? Yeah, probably a week. Oh, yeah, yeah. For sure in a week. How much did I gain at the combine?

Yeah, that was about a week. Like five days. What happened to the 40-yard dash? You read a 435 40-yard dash. I lost 10 pounds since the end of the season by just simply actually thinking about what I eat and not being on the road. The speed with which I could recover those 10 pounds. Devon A chain level speed. There you go.

to be clear, I actually like Witherspoon. I think he or sorry, not Weatherspoon, Forbes. Here's the deal. Like, he has, what was it, six, pick sixes in his career or something like that? Like, he has really good ball skills, really good instincts. Like, there's definitely things to like about this guy. But, again, if he turns sideways,

QBs can't see him. He's two-dimensional. Just flat Stanley out there. Just jumping three-dimensional space. You got to put that in the NFL draft guide. Flat Stanley. NFL draft dot pherner.com. We're going to update that.

You got to put flat Stanley in there. Emmanuel Forbes, an ideal flat corner, but it's not the flat area of the field. It's just ideal two-dimensional corner. Oh, that's funny. Oh, my God. Also, wait, D.K., you mentioned Devin Witherspoon.

We're talking about outliers here. I want to mention, like, I'm curious with Devin Witherspoon and Christian Gonzalez just while we're on cornerbacks because, so you mentioned Devin and Witherspoon early this week. You were talking about Devin Witherspoon, Witherspoon, if he goes in the first round, he's the cornerback out of Illinois in that he would be the first cornerback taken in the first round under 185 pounds in like five years.

If you look at just corners taken like, or under 190 pounds, so you give him a little bit of room, because he's 181 in like the first 20 picks, because that's probably what Devonbond Witherspin's going to go somewhere in the first 20 picks. The list is Denzel Ward, Adorny Jackson, Trey Waynes, and Kevin Johnson. It's a whole list. you typically don't see guys this small go this early at corner. If you make it 185 pounds, the list is Denzel Ward. And that's concerning.

This is a worrisome place to be, everybody. But he first for a second there. Yeah, Witherspoon as a like corner who's a little bit under six foot, a little bit over 180, not that rare. Witherspoon is a round one player at that size, really rare. and he's a very good example when we talk about an outlier's draft right, drafters a ton of outliers of how teams and coaches

will talk themselves into a player with outlier size because of how they play because of their demeanor because of their skill set, right? We talk about like, Collagia Can't's going to be a first rounder, how?

I mean, of Forbes can be a top two round player. How? This is crazy. Well, Wethystons is also like a little bit of an outlier relative where he's going to go, but it's because of the quality of his play. This is where like kind of the tape starts to take over the,

the trends. You go, okay, but I really trust and believe in this guy. He has outlier levels of dog in him. Is the deal. Did that, exactly. Because I was fast, again, that Bruce Feldman reported the athletic with all these anonymous coach quotes. I know it's anonymous, whatever, like, what can you?

But, however, the Christian Gonzalez, like, again, the Oregon quarterback, like the better athlete, not like the outlier 100th percentile, but, you know, merely 95th, 90th percentile and everything. And the quotes in the coaches were on Christian Gonzalez, who I think is why they considered probably going to be the first cornerback taking me in the draft, maybe. And the coach quotes on Christian Gonzalez, I thought he was a good player, but we did not think,

let's not go out this guy. He's not sauce gardener. At the line of scrimmage, we thought we could beat him release-wise, and it's not like we had a great receiving court. And then the stuff they say about Devin-Witherspoon, one coach was like, we put an X on our scouting report

to go away from Devon-Witherspoon. We were scared to attack him. Another coach said, his physicality's different. Not many cornerbacks are that tough. He's special. I think he got savvy about him. Understands the game.

He made you. really leery of throwing the flats, I'm glad he's gone. And then the third coach said, by far the best cornerback in our league. And it's like, I don't know. It's why would Devin Witherspoon not be the first quarterback taken with all that said? Like, is it really just about, is the athletic isn't that big of a deal? Like, that's incredible stuff to hear it. Yeah.

I mean, it's the size thing. Yeah. Yeah. Gizalz came in at a good high weight and tested great. Withersman didn't test because he's got a hamstring problem. And so, like, that's going to really matter for those teams who rely on that sort of stuff. for those teams that don't and we're going to rely more on film. We're going to rely more in character interviews.

Then it's going to be different. And that's why, like, for months now, it's been, like, Betty Markets-wise, Christian Gonzalez has been a huge favorite to be the first corner off the board. But every couple of weeks, it narrows a little bit more and narrows a little bit more and narrows a little bit more. Right now it's like minus 190 for Gonzalez for the first corner off the board plus 160 for this bill.

When previously it was like minus 300, every mock that comes out, right? The most recently Hans-Zerline mock, where this one went before Gonzales? Or no, actually, you didn't because Gonzalez went through the Cardinals. But you see Witherspoon regularly going like six to the lions. You know what I'm saying? Like there's, there's an expectation that this guy's going to be drafted really, really highly because coaches love them.

So it's kind of a flavor thing. It's what, what does your team prioritize? Who does your team like better? Kind of how are you going to build it out the corner position? But Witherspoon is, man, like if you're,

it's like a casual fan and you want to watch the top guys. You know, you watch yourself some quarterback film. You watch some of the wide receivers. You're trying to like watch dudes for fun. Go put on some Devin Witherspoon film. Have yourself a blast watching this just, just 5-11, 180-pound guy

throw his body around with reckless abandon. He's sick, dude. He's so much fun. Watch him play in Michigan. Like, turn on the Michigan game. And I say this with, like, the most fondness possible. He plays like a fucking maniac. Like, he just flies around. He's talking shit every single play.

He's a tone setter. He's like, he's like the guy that everyone on your team, like, does not want to play. Like, I don't want to line up against that guy. He's fucking so mean. But yeah. I think if we successfully graded, corners on just like how deranged are you?

Like how positive are you that you're the best athlete on this field? We would have the exact correct ranking of corners just like in the league. Like it would be perfect. One to 100 we'd have them right. And Witherspoon is one in that class where like it was like the first play of the game against Indiana. No, no, no, no. Wisconsin.

Other red and white Big Whitman 10 West team where they ran like a double move and like Witherspoon got beat and like the quarterback didn't throw it. And like Wittisfit went 100% had a bad rep. play one of the game and he catches up to the receiver to like get in his face. You just got beat. It's 12.01 p.m. I love that. We got a whole lot of game left, Tiger.

And he's just already, he's already out of 100. He's insane. I love him so much. Yes. I love that. The irrational, like, nonsensical confidence. Like, you just got beat and you're still talking shit to him. That's the best thing.

This conversation right now between me and D. It's such a good example of how teams talk themselves and outliers. Totally. Because it's just like, I love him. Do you watch him? He's great. Yeah, and that's actually how I wanted to like button up this outlier conversation too, is like there's sort of a maximum in the scouting world where if you take too many outliers,

all of a sudden your team is just a bunch of outliers. And that generally speak is not a good thing. And it's like why so many teams have like benchmarks for measurables, like armly. Like we don't take tackles that have less than 34 inch arms or three inch arms or whatever. Weight, height, athleticism. There's like teams have these established benchmarks so they don't get sucked into this exactly what Ben and I are doing.

But did you see him play? Like he's so much fun. Like did you see Deuce Vaughn? Like he, you can't knock him over. However, but like history will tell us that, you know,

sticking to these benchmarks, you're going to just like hit at a higher rate. And that's why teams, I think, have these established benchmarks and you just want to be careful about taking too many of these outliers. Zooming out, as you were saying,

DK about like bigger picture of all the guys. I feel like we almost need to take the quarterbacks and put them in one bucket and everyone else. Starting with the quarterbacks, if you had to pick, again, since Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson are such big outliers and C.J. Stroud's more kind of like a straight narrow down the middle. Who do you think you're more willing to bet on having a successful NFL career? Not necessarily hitting the ceiling, but like who do you think is more likely to have success in the NFL for like a like a 15 year career? Bryce Young or Anthony Richardson? Who would you pick? Maybe those are two different questions.

If you're, if it's based on 15 years? 10, whatever. I was going to say because 15 years, like, it's hard to see a small guy last that long. I don't know. I still say Bryce Young just because he's such a good football player. It's Bryce Young, but small. It's close. It's Bryce Young, but it's close.

It's very close. Would you take Bryce Young, or you guys would rather have Riches? I will say my exact same line that I sent him Bryce Young for like three months. I think he's great. Love the kid. So excited for me, he's going to be awesome. I would like to let somebody else draft him. I would like to have pick four

and then somebody takes him pick two and I go, oh, shucks, I didn't get Bryce Young. How frustrating. And then I go on with the rest of my plan. This conversation is exactly what we talk about, you guys,

when we're doing fantasy football rankings where you're like, I got to rank this guy eighth, but under no circumstances, am I taking this player? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, this is like he's up there

because he's going to get a lot of volume or whatever. Like, however you want to describe the fantasy rankings, like I have to rank this guy in the first round because he's a first rounder. but I'm not ever going to take him. This is almost like how I'm getting with Bryce Young. Like, he's awesome. He is clearly a very fucking good football player,

but I am officially, like, spooked by the lack of size. That's how I'm going to do with Derek Henry. I will have to put him in the tub 10. I'm not touching him. Just not. Not drafting Derek Henry. And then of the other guys here, so we got George's Darno Washington,

who's like, if LeBron played dead end, we got Colisea Kansi, who's like Aaron Donald again at Pitt, but like even smaller. Nolan Smith, who's just D.K. Metcalfeck playing defensive end. We've got Dewan Jones, who's just like, you know, small Thanos, big Thanos, whatever. Thanos?

I like how you say Thanos. Thanos? Thanos? Thanos? Thanos? I don't know. I've heard it both ways. It's definitely Thanos.

It's not Thanos. There's no why. That's for sure. You know, of all the pronunciations, I thought I might get wrong on the show. Thanos, I wasn't on the guide. The little pronunciation, cheat, cheat. But of all these. guys, who do you think is the best shot of

succeed? Well, I don't know. However you want to either best shot at succeeding or just who would you take, who you most confident in that you're like, I would be like the scout bounding the table, like, let's take this person. I don't care if they're an outlier. Or like, that's the reason we should. Nolan. Yeah. For me, it's coming down.

Nolan Smith and darn out Washington. Yeah. I just like, like, tight end is, I think Washington's going to be a useful player. I just don't know if he's going to be like a high end producer at tight end. And in the first round, that's kind of what you're looking for.

Nolan, I'm confident that I can get double-digit sack seasons out of Nolan Smith. And I also think that I can, if he's not as successful as a pass rush rush as a pass rusher as I want him to be, I can find ways to use him as like a rush player and then a drop player, right?

And I use him in pressure packages and then give him more off ball linebacker stuff and he gives the athleticism to handle that. Like, think Tyos Bouser with the Ravens. I like Nolan Smith quite a bit. I bet on him. Move him to receiver. Or that, yeah.

All right. Yeah, I agree, though. I agree. Okay. There's the Seder. And we got a little, there's a little Afi-Komen thing at the end where you kind of, you hide some Mata. Kids look for it. So I'm going to just do that as two jargents of the lie. I love all these famous segments. Oh, okay. And we're going to give you a little prize if you would. I thought Hyphen's about me like, I hid something in your house, Ben. I was here there last night. There's something you had to go find and now. Bring your mic. Heifah, speaking of, this is a good opportunity. He literally hid something in my house. He sent me one of those giant hats with the number one dad thing on it that says, number one dad. He says, you know, the Brian Robinson giant hat. And he sent it to my house. He hid it in my house. So it's now it's behind me. I don't know if you can see it right here. Yeah, that was your Christmas gift. And it only came. It's like eight months early for next Christmas.

That's how I prefer to think of it. Well, they're a very popular brand. What can I say? It's a very cool hat. It's a big hat. It's a big of a normal hat. We got a shout out all the people who emailed us about minor league baseball teams because we did that as two jargons and a lie last week. And people loved it. And we shouted out the Rocket City trash pandas. Rocket City trash pandas. reached out to us. Swag. And they're hooking us up. Hell yeah.

Shout out the Rocket City Trash Pandas. You're incredible. The Riga NFL draft show brought you by the Rocket City Trash Pandas. Coming to your earhole soon. It's all it takes. So with that said, we got an email from Gord giving us more. We're running it back. Gord.

Two minor league baseball teams in a lie. We're running it back. Gord. Are you guys ready? Is that sure for Gord? Let's do it. The Binghamton stud muffins. Wow.

Okay. The Lakeland Flying Tigers were the Fort Myers Mighty Muscles. Flying Tigers is too normal. Mighty Muscles feels real to me. Mighty muscles guaranteed real.

100%. Couldn't be more confident. I can tell you actually, factually, I was in Fort Myers last summer and we actually almost bought 40 Myers Mighty Muscles gear. Is Binghamton a real place?

Binghamton. Where is Lincoln? In New York. You know, the lake? Binghamton's like down the, Yeah, and the western part of Newark. Wait, where's Lakeland?

I was just going to make it dumb jokes. Florida. It's the land by there. Yeah, but I'm sure. Yeah, exactly. Lakeland, I find compelling. What is a flying tiger? Is it what I think it is?

It's like a squadron from World War II, I think. Studmuffins is tough because they're kind of leaning into like the humorous mascot, which minor league baseball teams tend to do, but I don't know if this emailer is kind of hoping that we kind of get tricked by that. yeah because it's working I'm tricked it is flying tigers flying tigers is fake flying tigers is fake

I also like Lakeland might be fake you know wow the Binghamton stud muffins is not real they're the Binghamton rumble ponies and they're using Stubmuffins is a promotional name what the fuck is a rumble pony rumble pony would have just been great in general

should have any relations should have given one Binghamton minor league baseball team in a lot and just done rumble ponies and stud muffins. This is the New York slang for Shetland pony. Rumble pony. Rumble pony. How did the term stud muffin come to be?

Oh, that's a good. There's a question. Like, how is that related at all? Etymology. I'm going to Google that because I'm curious. A stud muffin? Wow, there's a, wow, it's older than I thought. Anybody got anything?

Exact origin is uncertain. I found it 1990s. New York Times piece on language stud muffins buzzkill. A muffin is a tasty cake. Welcome to this year's world of fresh campus slang. Oh, that's good, D.K. Maybe there was a sexy baker one day. And someone's like, man, that guy's a stud muffin.

I dig it. All right. We're getting out of here. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Solic. Thank you to everybody who emailed us. Thank you, emails to ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. Go to nifledraft. dot the ringer.com, about minor league baseball teams and whatever.

Tell them about team needs. Oh, you go to NFLdraft.orghum.com. I got your team needs there. We'll be talking about that soon. Mock drafts, everything. Big board player writeups on everything. It's go to NFLdraft.orghum. It's the best thing.

Do it. Best guide anywhere. Thank you to Austin for help of this episode. Thank you to Kai for producing. Thank you, Lauren. Lauren. Thank you, Flo Rida. Nice.

Didn't we just do him? Rida is one of the more underrated rappers of the last 20 years. That guy produces bangers. I'm not even disputing it, but it's just a funny sentence. It's so true. That man from like 2007 to like 2014 was on an electric run that is underrated. I got to say, I bet you a lot of parties where Flowrider was like the soundtrack. Think about all of his classic hits.

Low. How dare you? Club Can't Handle Me was like one of my favorite songs I would say in high school Hell yeah it is Right round Oh

Going down for Wild Ones That was like Oh Wild Ones Good feeling He remixed the The Vichy levels My house Somebody sing

Wildcom to my house That one Oh that's a good one Yeah Whistle That reminds me of Grong for some reason Gronk He came to my mind

When I heard that He did the Like the party song In the movie Neighbors which is a great song. There you go. Welcome to my house.

Shout off Flo Rida. Oh, going down for real? Did we already say that? Going down for real. That was the, Going Now for Real was like the NBA Playoff sign off music for a while. It was like then cut to commercial music.

Great song. All right, goodbye, everyone.