The Ringer NFL Show - NFL Draft RB Best and Worst-Case Scenarios and the Worst QB Career You’d Take No. 1 Overall

Episode Date: April 14, 2021

We provide the worst- and best-case scenario for running backs in the NFL draft by assigning them stylistic player comps and creating a scale of potential outcomes. Then we open up the mailbag and revisit the question of which worst current quarterback would you select as the first overall pick in the NFL draft. RB Najee Harris, Alabama (6:00) RB Travis Etienne, Clemson (12:38) RB Javonte Williams, North Carolina (24:10) RB Michael Carter, North Carolina (29:20) RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State (35:07) RB Kenneth Gainwell, Memphis (37:53) RB Rhamondre Stevenson, Oklahoma (40:42) Mailbag Questions  What defines a blockbuster trade? (44:00) Who is the worst current NFL QB you would take no. 1 overall? (46:35) Email us! [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. I'm John G. Stremski, born and raised New Yorker and a long-time sports radio host. And I'm here to tell you about my new podcast, New York, New York, with JJ. The first podcast on The Ringer and Spotify dedicated to you, the New York sports fan. I'll be giving you my thoughts on all the teams, plus fantastic guests, gambling picks, and thoughts from you. We'll be coming to you on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday nights, plus bonus episodes, whenever I got to get something off my chest. Make sure you follow the show on Spotify. The Ringer Fantasy Football Show.

My name is Danny Heifitz, and I'm here with Danny Kelly and Craig Horrell Beck. Today we're going to get into the running backs in the 2021 NFL draft. DK is going to break down each one, giving some stylistic player comps, a scale of potential outcomes, maybe a little range of, I don't know, Mike Davis to Torell Davis. I don't know. We're going to figure it out. I like that. But first, DK. Yo.

Is this a bad year for running backs? I mean, I wouldn't say it's bad because there are. three very good players, I think, in this class, and they're going to be good pros and contribute right away. But I would not say it's a deep class, and I would say outside that three, the top three, it gets a little bit sketchy from there on.

What about this, D.K.? Are most drafts now the same for running backs every year? Do we feel kind of the same? For the next 10 years, are we just going to kind of feel the same? I don't know. I felt like last year's class was pretty good, pretty exciting. But as it goes with any prospects

or any draft class every year, really we don't know how excited to get until landing spots hit. Like we could see some of these, you know, the big three, which we'll get into, Najee Harris, Travis E.T.N. and Javante Williams, if they land in crappy spots where they're immediately going to be backups, then it's like even less exciting. Or if one of the other less exciting guys, one of the secondary tier guys, lands in a really good spot, we could start getting excited about that. So I don't know. I would say suspend my conclusion until we see what happens with the draft.

But overall, yeah, it's not the greatest class. I think there's three clear guys and then a bunch of other, you know, if you're doing a dynasty draft at this time, it's like take a flyer on these guys type of deal, but I wouldn't feel super confident about anybody outside the top three. I can't remember a less fascinating year for running backs. Literally nobody is talking about them. It's all quarterbacks, tight ends, wide receivers.

It's covered up because it's such an offensive draft. Not like offensive, but it's offensive. Like, it's three or four quarterbacks up top. Pass catchers, like you got four. receivers that are really good. You've got a legendary tight end. Probably, it might, there's a really good chance that a defender, the first defender drafted is the latest

any defender gets drafted in the common draft era. Like it's really possible that defenders are taking in the first eight draft. Eight picks. But running back suck and it's papered over. So I wanted to see if that was true. So I just kind of went peruse the last four running back draft classes. So 2020,

you've got Clyde Edwards-Elair, you've got DeAndre Swift, you've got Jonathan Taylor, you've got Cam Acres, J.K. Dobbins, and Tony Gibson. Pretty good group. E. J. Dillon. Pretty good. Pretty good. AJ Dylan. With the quad. Second round. Yeah, with the quad. 2019. You've got Josh Jacobs, Miles Sanders, David Montgomery, Darrell Henderson,

Damien Harris, Devin, Singletary. Not great. Hey, not bad. 2018. Sequin. Rashad Penny. It's funny. Sonny Michelle. Nick Chubb, Ronald Jones, Carrie on Johnson, Darius Grice. He sucks. Royce Freeman, Neheme Hines,

Chase Edmonds. I mean, it's a pretty good group overall except for Rashad Penny. Yeah, two solid ones. 2017 Leonard Fournett Christian McCaffrey Dalvin Cook Joe Mixon Alvin Camara

Kareem Hunt James Connor Terico and Aaron Jones That's seven pro bowlers This kind of just tells me though that every running back draft There's like three guys

who are going to end up being like perennial fantasy relevant guys Like there's like Yeah there's like three every year It speaks to the shelf life of the position though I think right Like teams are going to be

You know basically looking to Add new new blood to their offensive lineup. Like there is a first-round fantasy running back in every year here. Maybe besides 2019, Josh Jacobs is on the cusp. But, like, there's a first-rounder in every single year so far in the last five years.

Are you saying that these other classes were underwhelming? Or are you saying that we're losing, that we're losing, like, perspective and, like, we're just, like, a little bit pampered or whatever, like, with what we've seen in the last couple of years? Or do you think this is going to be better than expected class? I don't know. I guess I'm saying that, like, looking at Hyvitz's list here, the last four drafts. Like, it seems like three or four good running backs come out of every draft anyway.

So perhaps, you know, we're clouded by the fact that the rest of the offensive rookie draft seems so great. But, like, maybe they'll just be two, three solid running backs like there are every year in this draft. I think we're pampered, for sure. Okay. So let's go through this year's class. Yeah, so we're going to do that scale thing because it was such a hit last time. People were clamoring to get this scale back. People want to be pampered by this.

scale. People wanted more. That's really what they are. People wanted more. So, D.K., you're going to hit us with the scale of 1 through 10, but the 1 through 10 are actually 10 players of how these outcomes could go for these guys' careers. Yeah. So hit us, D.K. Hit us right in the face with your scales. All right. So first off, we got Najee Harris from Alabama. Is it officially Nagee?

Actually, I think it's Naji. Naji Harris. Nogie. Okay. I keep getting that incorrect, but I think, I believe it's Naji Harris. Anyways, so his 10, let's start at the bottom. And actually, I'm going to start with another former Alabama running back who tested really well, super athletic, kind of had the same style. And that's Beau Scarborough from, or Bo Scarborough from Alabama. He would be sort of like, to me, the bottom end scale, the worst case scenario, backup slash rotational guy at best. So I'll just go through it, one through ten.

Boas Garbo Jeremy Hill Gus Edwards Eddie Lacey James Connor Leonard Fornett Melvin Gordon Stephen Jackson

Levion Bell and Matt Forte So my initial takeaway is big guys with hands Yep big guys who can move who are factors in the passing game

and the reason I put Bell on that one is I'm starting to feel like the Bell one works better and better because Harris he's not a home run hitter he is not a guy that's going to like, you know, take a small hole in the line and, like, turn it into an 80-year-or touchdown.

But he's very quick. He's very patience letting his block set up. I know that Levy on Bell, like the big thing is his patience behind the line of scrimmage. Very good in the passing game. Almost like a receiver. Like what he was doing in his contract situation, one was in like half a receiver, your number two receiver and you're running back one. And that was like what he wanted to get paid as.

So I think Najee Harris, very good receiver. go down field, run vertical routes. He can, like, jump up in the air, twist in the air and catch the ball. Matt Forte is another one that I've heard. Like, I think that's sort of the platonic ideal that you're looking at. He was a little bit more explosive than I think Naji Harris is. But again, like the kind of guy who would catch 50, 60, maybe even more passes in a season. And then my comp for Harris this whole time has been Stephen Jackson, just similar styles, you know, similar running style.

So, yeah, on the low end, again, like the Bose Garber. Jeremy Hill, kind of plotters, straight line guys, all the way up to, you know, Stephen Jackson, Levy on Bell, Matt Forte guys that are going to catch like 50, 60 balls and be big studs in fantasy football. Hi Fitz, when you look at that list, what does that do to you? Does that get the loins fired up or not really?

The juices flowing? I don't know if the loins. The juices are flowing. I think that my takeaway here is like, I'm not super excited. I mean, Matt Forte, Leon Bell, Stephen Jackson were like all at some point, like a top fantasy pick. Like Stephen Jackson was multiple years, the number one guy off the board.

Levion Bell was, I think two or like maybe three times, the number one pick and drafts. Matt Forte was always up there. And then like Melvin Gordon and Fournet are like real like a big drop off. It's a tier there, yeah. Huge drop off. I really want to know from D.K., like what is your confidence level that he's in the Melvin Gordon-Fornet level? or like that he can reach the levy on Bell Stephen Jackson like fantasy star three down back

catching a lot of passes level. Yeah, so I think I think I would probably say Melvin Gordon is a very realistic floor situation. You know what I mean? Like Melvin Gordon was pretty bad. Wasn't he pretty bad his rookie year? Broke out his second year and started scoring touchdowns like crazy. He's always kind of never been,

he never has been at least an elite elite. guy. But if you go back, remember his time at Wisconsin, just running over dudes. Yeah, running over dudes. You had like 500 yards in one game against Nebraska. You know, just why I didn't really trust Jonathan Taylor. Yeah, right? And so it was like, because like Monty Ball and Melvin Gordon looked great. Monty Ball, right. So I think that obviously it's not the worst case scenario, but like I'm treating this like Melvin Gordon is a realistic worst case scenario. I don't think you're going to get much worse than Nagee Harris. Na J. Harris. Sorry, I keep messing that up.

But at the same time, I do think he has, in the right system, if they can feed him the football in the passing game, like he has higher upside to catch 50 plus passes a season. So it's tough to know and without knowing the landing spot, but I do say

I kind of just circle that Melvin Gordon area is like my confidence factor. Where do you want to see him go? I want to see him go to Pittsburgh. I think that would be the most fun destination because Well, in the short term, obviously, like, Big Ben has a history of passing a lot to the running backs, a lot of checkdowns.

Pittsburgh has always been a bell cow style offense where they really feature one guy and one guy only, try and get him in there all the time. So I think those two things make me really want him to go to Pittsburgh. And if he goes to Pittsburgh and he's a first rounder, they're going to give him tons and tons of touches. So that would be my big vote, I think. And the other one is Buffalo is an option.

but that one to me is not as exciting from a fantasy point of view because then you got Josh Allen, he's not dropping it off to running backs very often. They were one of the past heaviest teams in the NFL last year. You know, it's not an ideal situation. However, there's just not a lot of teams that don't have like an established starter that's going to carry the ball, you know, that he can like drop into and immediately be like a 20 to 30 touch guy.

Who are those teams? We have maybe Miami, maybe the Jets. And the Steelers. I was going to say Arizona, but they signed James Conner today. So that would be out the window. Falcons. Falcons. Definitely the Falcons. Ooh, the Falcons are definitely a good one.

Who's their starter right now? Edo Smith. Montrealison. Mike Davis? Yeah. Mike Davis? There's a lot of Mike Davis loved this week on Twitter. Oh, my God.

Maybe the Raiders won in a third running back. Maybe. Yeah, there's just not a lot of openings. I'm just looking through all these teams. there's like four or five maybe. Like dolphins, jets, falcons, yeah. But that's kind of hanging over this conversation. In terms of fantasy, we've got Naja Harris.

Naji, no, it's contagious. Now I'm doing it. I think it's Naji, soft J. Nogie. Not Naji. Craig's the cultured one among us. So, the... Really, it's not just that there's only three or four running backs,

but there's only really three or four teams they could go to that we'd be like, oh yeah, we're really excited for this season. Yeah. So that's kind of... All right. So with that said, let's move with the next one. Who's the next running back? got for his TK.

All right. Travis E.T.N. from Clemson, who he's the type of guy who could have come out last year probably and still been a high pick, but he decided to go back. He, I don't think, really helped his cause a lot by going back. Like, he kind of almost just plateaued. So I'm guessing he'll end up being either a late first round pick,

if he's lucky, much more likely a second round pick. But honestly, that could be good because then he could land in a team where there's, you know, a lot of, you know, opportunity or whatever, maybe like a better offense if he doesn't end up falling a little bit in the second round. So we'll see how it goes. But here's my spectrum. So on the low end, and I guess like the prototype, the archetype that I'm going for here, is slightly undersized, explosive running backs that are maybe not three down,

like typical work-course style back. So start with the low end. Amir Abdullah. La Michael James I remember La Michael Oh my God Who didn't love La Michael James Amir Abdullah was electric in college

At Nebraska Those two guys you just said Are so upsetting to me Because it just occurred to me That like I have Let's be clear here About something La Michael James was way more exciting

Than Travis Ety N in college Is that not fair to say Yeah La Michael James was like a It was like a The Michael James movement People like Change their religion

To La Michael James Like Reggie Like Reggie Bush is the most exciting college running about that's 20 years. I will give an entire second tier, leave it blank out of respect. I feel like LeMichael James is third tier. But LeMichael doesn't seem like E.TN did me. LeMichael was little. He was like 5A, 190.

ETA's a little bigger than that, right? D.K. It's just upsetting he didn't do anything in the NFL. That's all I'm trying to say. Le Michael James is, 59-195 coming out of college. He was the second round pick. He was the 61st overall pick. So late second round.

to San Francisco. And I remember people were stoked about that. Oregon running backs in general have not fared. Well, Kenyon Barner was another one. Yeah, I almost put him on this list, Craig, actually. And basically what I was going for, you know, to dig deeper was, like, supremely productive college running backs, which is what ETN is. But some question. So supremely productive, fast, explosive college running backs.

And then, but like question marks around three down ability, basically. So anyways, continuing on, Amir Abdullah, Michael James, Kerry on Johnson, Daryl Henderson, Marlon Mack, Darren McFadden, DeMarco Murray, Chris Johnson, Jamal Charles, and then the Platonic Ideal, Alvin Camara. So that's the spectrum. It's an unbelievable list. It's a fun list.

It's a sexier list, that's for sure. Darren McFadden is, okay, I'm titillate. How confident are, so how confident are you, the wrong question. Where do you see him sliding in Travis E.T. N realistically? I can't speak because I'm so titillated by this list. I can't believe Darren McFadden, DeMarco Murray, Chris Johnson, Jamal, Charles,

Alvin, Cameron. All of those guys have been like a heavy hitting top three dude at some point. McFadden was very brief time. I'm curious, like, how confident he hits that level. McFadden was the fourth overall pick. Did you remember this? Like, is that in your memory banks anywhere? He was

the fourth. I remember I'm having 250 yards randomly for the Raiders. after everyone had written him off as like a... I remember when I was up in the Bay Area, like people wanted him to be... Like, they wanted him to work out so bad. Like, they would use every excuse every Sunday. He'd be like, well, no, he's actually better than it seems.

The 70 yards were... It was actually a tough 70 yards. But did you watch the 70 yards? I mean, he just, it was... You had to be there. His line wasn't helping him. Going back, the reason I... So actually, my comp and the Ringer NFL draft guide

is Darren McFadden. And it's more like a stylistic... The way he runs... That's huge, isn't he? The way he runs reminds me of Travis E.T.N. So, like, they're both kind of, uh, right. I don't know what the word is, like, herky jerky runners.

Like, just like they don't look smooth when they're running, but they're very explosive. Great. That's great. Well, like, for instance, Darren McFadden. Like, cool. Darren McFadden. Hercie jerk.

211 pounds at the Combine in 2008, ran a 433, jumped 35 and a half inches in avert, 108 broad. And so like... What's the herky jerk score? Herky jerky. What was he on the herky jerk score?

Yeah. What combine... What is the test the test's herky jerk? Three count. I don't know. So where do you feel like he's going to land on his scale? Go watch Travis Ety on run.

It's like all in the shoulders. Like the way he moves. it's like all shoulders. But he's fast as shit. This sounds bad, D.K. This is a bad sales bitch. I don't think I'm in on him anymore. I'm not trying to sell him to you.

I'm just telling you how I see it. Okay, so he's a duck. So, no, but you also have Chris Johnson and Jamal Charles here. I just can't emphasize enough. Chris Johnson, CJ2K himself. And then Jamal Charles, who literally, I believe, is the all-time NFL leader for yards per carry. He's underrated Jamal Charles.

Yeah, I'm so it's an incredible. list of coms for Travis ETN. Yeah, so like the high, so that's actually a good, I think that's a good way of framing how I feel about ETN overall, because I think his floor might be a little lower

than I'm really comfortable with, if that makes any sense. Like, I think he has a lower floor than like a Najee Harris type guy where I think you're going to get a really solid floor from Najee, he's going to be a pro for, you know, five, six years and be really,

solid, whereas ETN, I think, is a little more landing spot dependent. He's not as scheme transcendent, if that makes any sense. But I do think his overall, like the ceiling is really high because he's super athletic. He's explosive. His acceleration is through the roof. And so I think to me, that is what makes him so interesting. And I, you know, I still have high hopes for him. I think he's going to be good, but I think it also just kind of matters where he lands. I'm looking at this list, and I comped him to Darren McFadden, but I actually think the DeMarco Murray one works really well because, so Murray had two 1,000-yard seasons for Oklahoma in college, 50 touchdowns on the ground.

He's unreal. Another 13 touchdowns in the air. So he had 63 touchdowns, which I think is around what EATN has. I can't remember off the top of my head how many had, but it was like a ridiculous amount. I'm going to pull it up here real quick. So ETN had 78 touchdowns in college, which is just freaking unheard of. So many. But DeMarco Murray, DeMarco Murray had 63.

He, at 5 foot 11, 213, 23 pounds, which is almost exactly the same size as ETN weighed in. He ran a 4-4-3 at the 40, you know, 34 and a half inch vert, 104 broad, like very good. Very good explosiveness numbers. But then, and then he took a while to get going in his career, but then he ended up putting out like multiple thousand-year-d seasons. He had one, two, three, one-thousand-yard seasons. I'm talking about Murray. Murray, Murray's a really interesting guy.

I mean, he got, he only played because Felix Jones, I think, got hurt. Yeah, they had, like, really high hopes for him, yeah. He had like an awesome eight-game stretch. And then for the next two years, he was like the hottest commodity in fantasy. And then he, like, fell off. He went to Philly, then he went to Tennessee, and then he retired at 29. He's only 33 right now. Wow, that's fine.

I mean, Todd Gurley's 26. D.K. has a bet with me that he won't ever play in the NFL again. If you guys remember, DeMarco Murray, one of the things about him is he was, like, he fell the third round. Despite all the numbers he put up in college and everything, he was a third-round pick, because he was a little bit stiff and herky-jurkey as a runner, which I think is exactly. There it is again. A herky jerky runner. What was his herky jerk school?

So, like, let me explain herky jerky because... Please. Jamal Charles is on this list. Jamal Charles is the smoothest, silky runner ever. Like, it never looked like he was trying, just effortless speed. I would put Alvin Camara in that list, too. Like, Alvin Camara, it never looks like he's trying very hard, and he's just, like, blows by everyone. Whereas a guy like to Marco Murray, a little more stiff, like stiff-hipped.

Not going to, like, bend. He's not like a Lashon McCoy where he's, like, making. guys miss, but explosive straight line speed, one cut runner who could, you know, top end speed. And DeMarco Murray, man, his 2014 season was one for the ages. He had 392 carries, 1,845 yards, 13 touchdowns. He added another 400 plus yards in the air, like, just ridiculous. 2200 yards from scrimmage. Him and DeMarco Murray McFadden to me, that's stiff running style. To me, to me, to me, it always looked like they were running over hurdles when they ran. Like there was a one-foot hurdle

that they'd always have to get over. Should we call a hurdle jerky? There you go. That's our new beef jerky brand coming soon, fantasy football show. So to me, at the end of the day, yeah, what you're going to ask, I think, is like, where do I see him?

I think that 6-7 range, Darren McFadden, DeMarco Murray is a solid, certainly not the worst-case scenario, but like a solid floor you want to shoot for where you're going to have, these guys, probably multiple 1,000-yard seasons, would be like, I would take that for sure. And then I think the upside is obviously quite a bit higher,

but I don't think his odds of hitting that upside are quite as high as like Naji Harris type. Okay. Does that make sense? I think so, like, you're getting a good floor. Sorry, let me say that again. You're not getting a good floor because I do think he has like a lower floor than Naji. You're getting like a good realistic range of expectations for him, I think. And it's in that Derek McFad, to Marco Murray and like low-end Marley.

Mac range. I like the Jamal Charles better than the Marlon Mac, but... Well, yeah. I hope so. Who's next? All right. Next up, Giovante Williams from North Carolina, who's very, very exciting runner. He extremely, extremely physical, great balance, almost like gyroscopic balance. Like, the way he runs is actually really interesting because there is multiple runs on his college tape where he, like, gets turned around in the air. He's like running downhill. He gets hit. He like spins, turned around. He lands backwards and just keeps running backwards. It's like, you know the cars that do, you know that, you know how like in stunt cars you like get them going backwards and they like

flip around and go straight without like breaking any speed? Like the Batmobile. Yeah, this is like how he runs. Just really, really good balance, really, really good. But he did that multiple times. Just backpedaling out of mid air. Yeah, he's just, he just keeps going downhill and like churning out yards. So to me, that's the style of runner he is. He's like the platonic ideal, which I'll get to, is really, really exciting. However, he's also a little bit on the slow end, you know, for, he's not a home run hitter. I think he ran in like the low four, fives, which means he's probably more like a four-six kind of guy in reality, since the pro days are, you know, bumping up guys a little bit. So like, here, here's the low end. And obviously,

I feel bad putting Zach Moss here because the book is not. out on him, but... Yeah, damn. Disappointing rookie season, I would say. Zach Moss would be the low end. Wow. Peyton Barber is above Zach Moss. That's fucking hard.

That's cold. Let's put Peyton Barber. How about put Peyton Barber at number one? That's like, I mean, low end guy who... On a scale 1 to 10. People are annoyed that he's in and over like the guy that is on your fantasy team. That's like the worst case scenario.

You know what I mean? People like, shit, Javonte Williams is in. You don't want to be... Yeah, you don't want to be... Yeah. you don't want to be the Jamal Williams. Shit, he should be, Jamal Williams should be on here somewhere.

But yeah, anyway, so Payton Barber, Zach Moss, Damien Harris, who Hyfitz loves. That's so, what a dagger to me personally. Mike Davis, Spencer Ware.

Do you have Damien Harris behind Mike Davis? Did you see Mike Davis last year? Mike Davis was 80% of Christian McCaffrey last year. David Harris was like, freaking third string, man. You got to get over Damien Harris. But he's, uh, fine, fine. Anyway, he might be good this year, for all I know, but he hasn't fucking proved it yet, is what I'm saying.

Oh, you're right, you're right, just keep going. I'm just trying to process. All right. So, Mike Davis, Spencer Ware, David Montgomery. So, like, if we were doing, you know, an absolute reality, like, Javonty Williams turning into David Montgomery, I think that, I think that we'd, that's, like, as low as you'd probably want to shoot for. Um, I don't know if, like... Yeah, four months ago, I'm not sure we'd be stoked about that comp. Right. Just Jacob. Is David Montgomery good? Because he was really bad.

Then he was really good. We can't do this now. That'll be in the middle of May. We'll come out of our hiatus and do 45 minutes on. Is David Montgomery good? So the bottom line is, Craig, to your point, in three years, I don't want to be having a question of like, is Giovante Williams good? Like, is he good?

I don't want to be having that discussion. So to me, the David Montgomery is the floor that you're shooting for here. Spencer Ware, Mike Davis, both those guys proved that they could come in when injuries occurred and like carry. They're like grinders, you know, they're physical. They can carry the offense, but they're not star material. They're not like elite starters, if that makes any sense. David Montgomery is right there on the cusp of like, is he good or is he just a volume guy? And then from there, Josh Jacobs, Mark Ingram, Kareem, Kareem Hunt, and Marshaun Lynch.

Marshaun Lynch is my, like, if Javante Williams pans out, he could be the Marshaun Lynch's style of runner. You just Marshawn Lynch style Beast mode style destroying wrecking ball people style. That's what a 10 is. It's like best world scenario.

Best case scenario. He has a Marshawn Lynch-esque career like five or six thousand yards seasons taking people's souls. Like high fits, best case scenario, you're like Scott Van Pelt. Like,

doesn't mean it's going to happen. That's a good point. Point taken. So David Montgomery's the floor here. So where do you think Javanti Williams fits? At least within that four-team spectrum we just said of like Falcons, Jets, Steelers, and I already forgot the other one. Oh, I would love to see him in Atlanta.

I think that would be a lot of fun. He could go and play with his, you know, with Mike Davis, his other comp there. I think that the Atlanta Falcons in the second round would be an awesome spot for him. And he'd go in and immediately be the starter there. Who are the other teams that we mentioned? Miami, Pittsburgh, Jets, Falcons. We're giving Noggi to the Steelers. Literally any of those teams would be fine.

That'd be great. It's really convenient that there's four teams and there's four guys that we have. You know what? I would love to be like, yeah, we plan this, but no, it's... We actually didn't. We did not. It's just super...

Okay, wait. Let's get to this last guy here. Michael Carter from North Carolina. Yeah. So that's the other thing, actually, I wanted to mention about Tivante Williams is he was not a full... time starter necessarily. He did a committee in North Carolina with Michael Carter, who also in his

own right is a very interesting prospect. So Javante Williams, going into the NFL, you're going to have questions marks about whether he can carry a heavy load. He is in the same sort of boat, at least experience-wise, stylistically very different, but experience-wise as Travis Eton, who both of them have like three games where they have more than 20 carries in their college career. So that's a big question mark. Back to Michael Carter from North Carolina, who was Giovante Williams's backfield mate. So he is...

We just note that together on North Carolina, they were Michael Carter Williams. That's a basketball duke. I've heard of that person. I have heard of it. He is notorious. He's famous for how bad he was. He basically won rookie of the year because he stuffed the stat sheet and then sucked every year after that.

Not looking good for these two. I'm a little concerned about this U.S. C deal right here being the third and fourth best running back in this draft. You tell me, I'm investing my capital in Michael Carter-Williams? I don't know. Their run game was insanely good, Hyphids. You should go watch the tape. But anyways.

Stop to watch the tape on me. Fucking watch the tape, bro. No, I mean, but really, they were an awesome run team. So, Carter, he's interesting. He's a little bit smaller. He's like 200-ish pounds. So he's on the small end of the spectrum when it comes of running backs. But he has

very quick. explosive in the short area. He does not have home run speed, but he makes guys miss. Like a patient, you know, cerebral runner, I would say.

Like, he kind of just, like, picks his way through the traffic and finds ways to get out of, you know, out of the group of people. So here's my,

and Craig's making weird faces when I said that. I don't know. What's that about, Craig? No, I just, I can't tell,

with all these guys, maybe besides, not, besides nausey, I'm somewhere between Haifitz's coined term whelmed and underwhelmed. I'm hovering between wellmed and underwhelmed

with a lot of these guys, I think. Looking at this list, just get through the list. Then we get talking about it. Okay. All right. All right. So first of all, before I get this list, short apology, if you can hear some people that are building a fence out of my house. So could hear a little bit about that.

But do you hate your neighbors? It's my fence. I'm building a fence to keep my child from running into the street. Why is he running away from you? Dude, he just always tries to leave. What the hell? Does he have better or worse acceleration than

Michael Carter? He is fast. What's his herky jerk score? He's fast. He's got a little herky jerky. His gate is a little herky jerky right now. He's just not real coordinated. A lot of tripping and whatnot. Runs with his shoulders. Yeah, he's very shoulder heavy. Like a duck. I'll send you the tape.

You guys can check it out. Waddles. All right, give us the spectrum for Michael Carter. All right. So starting on the low end, Starting on the low end, Andre Ellington, Chris Thompson, Gio Bernard, Jerich McKinnon, Nihim Hines, Dionne Lewis, Amad Bradshaw, Devante Freeman, Austin Echler, and Lashon McCoy. So it's a super tough list. My eyebrows didn't raise until number 10. That's a super tough list. You don't want Austin Eccler? All right, nine.

Your own fucking teammate? Dude, your six years, Dionne Lewis, which like, if you had to put it at two, I would not have blinked. Well, here's the deal.

One through six here are interchangeable. Ellington, Chris Thompson, who's too low, honestly. Gio Bernard, Jerich McKin and Ahim Hines Die on those interchangeable

one through six. Yeah. That's so tough. So I guess, and again, Hyfitz, man, you just keep setting up

really good segues for me. I think it speaks to, I think it speaks to, quality of, number one, Michael Carter as a prospect. I think he's very much on the scale of like, I don't think he's ever going to have like a huge role in the NFL. I think he's much more likely to be a Dionne Lewis,

you know, Naim Hines type of guy like a complimentary back in the NFL, than he is, it's much less likely, I believe, that he's going to be a Devante Freeman, a Nekyllar or McCoy. Because I don't think he's as explosive as those three guys. I think he

I think he's definitely quick in the short area and physical and all that but he doesn't have he's not like a tackle breaker classically like we're like bowling through guys he's more like make guys miss

type of deal so I don't know I think he is a far tier below the first three guys that we talked about and from a fantasy point of view I think he's he's extremely

landing spot dependent like if he lands in a situation where he's going to be getting a lot of touches than all bets are off. But I think it's much more likely he's going to be a complimentary back type of player. So this leads us back to full circle to this is the fourth best running back in the draft. This draft kind of sucks for running backs. Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, so he's he's my fourth ranked guy, but I think some people would have a few other guys ranked fourth. And that, again, speaks to, I think, you know, Michael Carter, not necessarily a highly

thought of prospect. He's more in the middleing range. And a guy that if he lands in the right situation where he's catching a lot of passes, he could have fantasy relevance, but, you know, odds might be against. He's going to be a G.O. Bernard, I bet. A guy that people are more excited about than they maybe should be. So let's do a lightning round then.

Take us through a few other guys that other people may get excited about outside of these four dudes. So the other three guys I think that you would see in that RB4 spot are Trey Sermin from Ohio State, who most of his career, he was very underwhelming. In a few games,

late in this last college season, he looked like fucking Bo Jackson or something. He was just carrying the Ohio State offense. And I'm obviously exaggerating. He was the meme during the Clemson game. Yeah. He's jumping over dudes, laying him out, catching passes, literally carrying the Ohio State offense to victory.

But there's just so, few games. Is Craig okay? Craig's dying. Craig's coughing over here. He's just coffee. Water. I had water went down the wrong pipe. Sorry, I thought Craig was reacting to my tree for... I just sitting here judging other people's athletic ability, like, you'll never be anything about a G.O. Bernard and Craig just

choking on water. I can't even swallow water. Oh, boy. Sorry about that. But anyways, so I guess like the idea here is servant has a really high ceiling in theory if he could play like that all the time and he gets in the right

situation. Stylistically reminds me a little bit of Todd Gurley like the taller, smoother guy that likes to like get outside and one cut and go and good pass catcher all that. But I think his low end is... Wait, Todd Gurley before the knee thing or after the knee thing? Yeah, well maybe after

because he's not as exposed to him to talk about. Cool, so he's not good enough to make a roster. Yes. Correct. Well, he's cheaper, so he probably will make a roster. But yeah, no, I'd say, you know, I'm not super hopeful. I would say, this is kind of like what I've seen from some of the smartest analysts in the industry are basically like, if you're going to chase a guy before, if you're doing a draft before the actual draft, like he's a big school guy who has produced former big time recruit,

all that stuff. Like, he's got the right size to be a foundation back. if you're going to take a flyer, he's the guy to take a flyer on. Okay, so who's next? That wasn't exactly lightning. There was a little more thunder. But who else you got? Right. Kenneth Gainwell from Memphis, another freaking Memphis running back coming into the NFL. What is with them?

I don't know, man. They did an incredible job of recruiting some really exciting playmakers. Kenneth Gainwell joins Antonio Gibson, Tony Pollard, and Daryl Henderson as like really exciting slashers from the backfield. he's undersized he did not test as well I think as people were hoping it wasn't quite as fast or explosive

but he's just a player like when I watched him he reminded me stylistically I'm not saying he's at this level but he reminded me stylistically of Aaron Jones kind of like that slashing style pass catcher he's actually

like lining up as a receiver quite a bit in that offense so yeah I mean he's an interesting guy again like I think it's absolutely landing spot dependent if he lands somewhere that's going to feature him

as a past catcher, I think then we're going to get really excited about this guy. But more likely, I feel like the odds are you're going to see a situation where he's like, you know, Darrington Evans or something where he's like behind a really, really good back. That's not going anywhere for three years and you're just ending up being like, that sucks. Like Tony Pollard, for instance, the exact same scenario. Tony Pollard is really good, really explosive. Every time he touches the ball, something good happens, but he's stuck behind Zeke.

So I can see that happening with Gainwell. Now, if he ends up in a situation where it's 50-50 split, that's awesome. And then I'm going to get really interested about him. DK., if Tony Pollard were in this draft, where would he go? In this draft? Like knowing everything that we know? Yeah. Now?

Yeah. Or like as a product. After Trevor Lawrence? Like, you know how good Tony Pollard is. You know his age. And if he just somehow entered the draft, would he be like the second running back taken? Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, I bet you would be a second rounder.

I bet he would... Oh my God. He'd be like the R.B. That's a very indicative of this draft. So do the Cowboys need to cut Zeeke, or is this just a terrible draft? Yes. No, I don't know. Dude, you tell me.

So obviously, the Cowboys are absolutely married to Zique for years, right? They just gave him this massive contract. But we've seen every time Pollard is like the featured guy on that offense, he's awesome. So, I mean, you tell me, what do you do? We should do like a first-team-all fantasy Twitter dorks love list. Tony Pollard is on that list. I guess Tony Pollard, I feel like, he's the one guy who's like earned it. Everybody else is like, oh, yeah, I love this guy.

He carried the ball four times and he broke a lot of tackles, therefore we love him. This is like the David Montgomery thing, though. We can't do 45 minutes on Tony Pollard in the middle of April. That's just irresponsible. Okay. Any other running backs that should be on people's race? The one other guy, I think that's worth mentioning here. And there's several other players that could be interesting.

But since we're making this lightning round, Ramadre Stevenson from Oklahoma, who was a big reason, by the way, that Trace Sermon transferred from Oklahoma to Ohio State, I believe, because he was like encroaching on his playing time. But Stevenson. Oh, I was the thing of me of their roommates and they didn't like each other or something. No, I mean, I think it was like a freshman roommate, you move. Video game dispute. Yeah. And I could be wrong because there was another guy there who basically had passed up Trace Sermon, which again is not a great indication that Sermon is like going to be this stud in the NFL.

But Stevenson, I think is interesting. He's a 230-pounder, 225-pounder, big guy. Again, slow is like the main worry. He's just too slow, not explosive. But he's very good at breaking tackles. He's sort of slick. You know, he gets around guys, makes a miss. good balance, all that stuff, good in the passing game.

What's a comp for him? You're going to say, Gus Edwards. Derek Kent. Oh, Gus Edwards. All right. Like a good player. Craig said Derek Henry and you said Gus Edwards.

So that's the first time that's ever half. When Stevenson was in college, he was listed, I believe, at like, 247 pounds. So people were like, this is the next coming. This is the second coming of Ligarrett Blunt. And then he weighed in at like 225 or something like that. of his pro day and everyone's like, okay, well, never mind. Also, he's not very fast. He lost 20 pounds?

Well, I think he was probably just listed more than he actually was. Like, more than he was playing at. Are there any rules about listing weight? No, it's like a driver's license. 22 pounds is a massive gap for a running back. Okay. Well, it's probably smart, honestly,

because, you know, he would definitely get, I think, pigeonholed into like a goal line back if he was 250 pounds. there's a chance that Devante Smith is 127 pounds I have no idea I think you said 247

okay there's your running back you want to go to a mailback let's do it what is that face Greg I was just saying like man the running backs what a brutal

what a brutal group you guys have a very noticeable lack of enthusiasm about all this well it's yeah because the first best running back is a guy that we're like yeah you know

geo Bernard like Joe Bernard is maybe the third best running back on the Cincinnati Bengals. And we're talking like Jamar Chase is like maybe Larry Fitzgerald, like the third greatest receiver ever. Trevor Lawrence. Oh yeah, Fabio quaffed John Elway. I'm like, okay. Like Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck.

Kyle Pitts, perhaps the greatest tight end ever already. And then the running backs were like, yeah. And then we're like, David Montgomery, if we're lucky. Dre Ellington. Like, oh my God. You guys are like, you're making me kind of sad about this class because I want to get excited. Yeah. We're the messengers to all the people listening to just not get excited.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's get to the mailbag. We'll see how it goes. Here's an email from Ethan. I'm curious if you guys could define what a blockbuster trade is in the NFL these days. Fox News, among others, has labeled the Sam Darnold trade as a all caps.

Blockbuster with five exclamation points. I say it's pedestrian at best. Can you guys please explain what the term Blockbuster means today? I have two thoughts here. The first is obviously this needs to be Netflix trades, right? What do you mean? Like a Blockbuster trade. Like obviously it should be like a Netflix trade, right?

Because Blockbuster is obviously a thing of the past. Yeah, who says Blockbuster anymore other than for that specific phrase? Well, so I just Googled where did the term Blockbuster come from? I looked it up too, Craig. this is what it says you know the Google answer right at the top the word first appeared in the pages of time in a November 29th

1942 article on the allied bombing of key industrial targets in fascist Italy the bombs used for such missions were called blockbuster is because of their ability to destroy an entire city block did you source that from TikTok no

fresh from the pages of Google my friend all right so Sam Darnold to the Panthers not a blockbuster I don't think it's a blockbuster. It's definitely not a blockbuster, but I don't think it's pedestrian. I think it's more than pedestrian. He's going to be starting quarterback in the NFL. Yeah.

I think I'm missing the point, though. I agree with Ethan that it's not a blockbuster because a blockbuster would be the fucking DeAndre Hopkins getting traded is a blockbuster. Sam Darnold. Yeah, no. We can get away with saying we answered Ethan's questions here because I technically read the explanation of the term blockbuster. He looked up the etymology of blockbuster, which I think is a fascinating story. Obviously, very violent.

I think a blockbuster trade is when the trade has, like, legitimate playoff implications. Like, this could change the playoffs, and I don't think Sam Darnold's trade. I think that's a very good definition. Like, in the NBA, like, Paul George getting shipped to, and then call Y is signing.

Like, oh my God, this, yeah, there has to be like a power balance shift. I think that's correct. From a content point of view, High Fitz. wouldn't you think blockbuster would be anything that makes like us as a website do the all hands-on deck style thing like where if it's like a Friday after work hours we all have to work that would be a blockbuster trade if we can wait is getting lower and lower if we have to wait if we get to wait till Monday to write about it then it's not a blockbuster trade moving on the quarterback mendoza line conversation we discussed the couple of couple weeks ago about what is like the worst career you'd grab. So Gustavo and Jack wrote in to suggest that the worst quarterback you'd want at number one is Joe Flacco. Thomas wrote in to suggest Carson Wentz. But we got an email from Charles that kind of put us in our place saying, hello,

Danny's and Craig. So regarding the question about the Mendoza line for drafting a quarterback's career at number one, you have to reframe the question slightly. If the question is you get their exact career arc and nothing you do within reason changes it, then the answer is the worst act of quarterback to win at least one Super Bowl, and unfortunately, that answer is Joe Flacko. If the question is you get the relative level of play and development from that quarterback, and you can mix and match the pieces around them to win as much as you can as an organization, I think there's a controversial answer. Ryan Fitzpatrick, if you could guarantee the relative level of play of the career arc of Ryan

Fitz, and you were able to make the best possible team around him with your other roster choices, you'd probably have a shot at a Super Bowl every three years when it lined up with the years he was playing con. He's trying to con some team into giving him a starting game the next year. So there's two questions here.

One, I think, do we all accept the premise that like, really we should reframe this as like you get the player and hope that they're better on a certain team? And two, is that answer Ryan Fitz. What do you think, D.K.? I think it is a good way of doing it is basically, like you said,

the relative level of play. So basically you're getting this level of quarterback play for his career versus like I think a lot of like we were thinking it of like the Flacco thing. We were thinking like if they hadn't drafted this guy they never would have won the Super Bowl or whatever which is like that's not really the right way of looking at.

I think it is what kind of quality quarterback player are you going to get year in and year out? I don't know if Ryan Fitzpatrick is the right answer but I like that answer. What do you think, Craig? I feel I think you could go a little lower than that maybe. Like Fitzpatrick has been pretty good. really lower than fits

I don't know if I agree what I think of the Mendoza line I think of like this is the absolute lowest scenario that I would go if somebody was like you can have Fitz's you know development and skill or just take a shot at Trevor Lawrence I'm taking

Trevor Warren's yeah so then it's not fits well that's not to be this year well that's what it means right it's like every year you'd rather have this than the quarterback's in the draft because that's the lowest one you take one overall. Lawrence is a little different.

I don't know. Okay. Here's my thing. Like, like, Kyler Murray, last year at Burrow, the year before,

you know, Baker, like the 2018 year, I think that that's, there was a lot more uncertainty with those than with Lawrence. But regardless, it's an interesting question.

I'm, I'm wondering right now, like, like, I'm wondering what, right now would I do with Eli Manning? Is like, because if we're throwing out the career thing,

Eli won two Super Bowels, that was, It's basically, if you put Eli on a 8-and-8 team every year, what would he do? The answer is insanely easy is what... The answer is insanely easy. You do not take Eli. I love Eli with all my heart, but I have to be honest, yeah. Like, if you just threw him on like a random-ass team, I'm trying to think...

Is it like Phil Rivers? Wow. Phil Rivers is above the mark, I think. Phil Rivers got so unlucky so many times. Although at the same time, he was also the real... What did Chris Ryan say when he came? came on our pod a few weeks ago about Howie Roseman. He's the arsonist and the fireman.

That's full of Rivers. I mean, including me two seconds ago. He got so unlucky. He also threw a shitload of picks in the fourth quarter. I wrote, I will shamelessly plug for the ringer.com, you can Google, like, the history of like the Chargers late game collapses

where I chronicled like a decade of all the times they lost. Half of them are just Philip Rivers doing a dumb thing at the end of the game. Fumbling a snap, throwing a dumb pick, getting the ball back and throwing another dumb pick. Like, he's a huge reason they lost. So I'm torn because his style is so aggressive. No, I think it's closer to him than it is Fits.

I love Fits more than anybody. Are we, is Fitts a little overrated at this point? Yeah. Because he's so lovable. The beard, it's cool and like it's a fun story. Honestly, it's probably got a cool nickname. Fitz Magic. Fitz has never thrown for 4,000 yards.

He's thrown for 30 touchdowns once. He's good, but he's not. I think Eli is really close to the answer because Flacco's below it, right? Flacco is no longer the line. He's below the line for number of... Eli is probably the best quarterback you would not take number one. Is that fair to say? Yeah, he's right.

He's knocking on the ceiling of the Mendoza line. Like the door gets shut in his face. He's not into the party. Yeah, you know, I think it's maybe around... I think Rivers isn't bad. I'm trying to think of other guys here. Carson Palmer? No, I think he was pretty good.

Really? Okay. I kind of would rather have Carson Palmer than Philip Rivers. Oh, I think I'd rather have Philip Rivers. Yeah, me too. The difference is Philip Rivers never got hurt. All right. Email us at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. On that note. So again, we're reframing this.

You can have the play. You don't get their exact career. Thank you for the correction, Charles. You get their relative skill. Relative skill, relative development, and you can make them better. I think Eli. I'm curious what people think about Eli.

All right, emails at ring your friends to football at gmail.com. We got anything else? No, that's it. Oh, good. All right. Thank you, D.K., thank you,

everyone for listening. Thank you. I was going to thank Javentai Lerner. You didn't trust me to say the thank you, Lauren, Craig. You've missed Lauren the last two episodes. You've been really off your game, high fits.

You're like me. Completely forgetting to think of a band. Okay. I was going to thank Chavante Williams for being like the next David Montgomery, but instead, thank you, Lorne. Lorne.

Elton John, thank you. Nice. That's good. D.K.'s picks are erratic. I cannot predict what he will do. All over the place. Unbelievable. Oh, my God.

All right. Bye, everyone.