The Ringer NFL Show - Power Ranking the Best Head Coaching Candidates and Landing Spots

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

POWER HOUR! The guys discuss the expected coaching vacancies and who the top candidates will be (2:55). Plus, Fantasy Court (1:01:08)! “You guys want to do some emails?” (1:04:18) Chicago Bears (2:55) Jacksonville Jaguars (20:03) Las Vegas Raiders (25:49) New York Jets (29:18) New Orleans Saints (38:14) New York Giants (41:14) Dallas Cowboys (50:08) Check out our 2024 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens and Olivia Crerie Producers: Kai Grady and Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get you. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media that's at Ringer NBA and check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of podcasting

right in the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hypes and I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Quirlebeck and today it is power hour where we powering something every Wednesday. And today honestly not such a normal power hour. We are going to just have a vibes conversation. We're just going to talk through this coaching cycle and all the teams that need coaches, all the coaches that can be hired, who we think will and who we think should go where.

Because I think this is the most interesting coaching cycle in years. And I think it was that way before Bill Belichick went to UNC. I think it's more interesting to look at who's going to go where now now that Belichick's out of the conversation. And this is also prelude to the Ringar NFL Draft Show. If you guys are just following us to the first year, we don't stop at the end of the season. We cover the off season.

We cover coaches getting fired. We cover coaches getting hired. Free agency. Trades and the draft where DK scouts a crazy amount of players, all the guys in the draft. He has his big board. He has scouting reports. He's the best scouting reports and the best player. And I scout one guy every year.

I pick one. Yeah, three. But like, we really do cover the whole game. We cover the whole offseason. We don't stop. We go right through the draft. And then we also have, we go the whole summer. So if you have enjoyed listening to us this season, to be totally honest, I actually think the offseason show is more fun.

I think we're, like, it's a really good time. And so the first part of that with the Ringer NFL draft show is who's going to be running these teams because I mean half the teams picking in the top ten are probably going to have new coaches so we'll go through all this. So this is really the beginning of our offseason content. There's a lot of really big teams

with big opportunities, a lot of big coaches. So we'll get into it. And we're going to just riff here, but I want to start with the teams that have already have coach openings. We should say Tom Tom Tom. Tom is on break. Yeah, it's on vacation.

Checked out on vacation a little early, long holiday break. So Tom Tom, not going to be involved today, but kind of a slacker move by Tom Tom, actually. But it's okay. Well, they have the PTO days expire for Tom Tom, by the end of the years. They had to take them.

Yeah. You have to get them in a head Christmas. So Tom Tom's on PTO. So I want to start with the Bears because, one, the Bears have already fired their head coach and also the offensive coordinator. But obviously the Bears said that horrific Monday Day of football game where they were, like, embarrassed by the Vikings.

And I want to start with what is now, I think, very obvious, which is Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator for the Lions, is considered the best offensive coaching candidate. The Bears need an offensive coach, probably for Caleb Williams. And so everyone is just in agreeance, well, Ben Johnson should be the coach of the Bears. Like, that should be who the Bears want number one. And I want to get to whether that should be Ben Johnson's choice in a moment. But do you guys start to feel that this is like a pregame show where like all 11 people on the NBC

pregame are picking the same team? team to win. Like, are you almost concerned that it's December 17th and we've all just decided how to fix the bears who have been a mess for like 30 years? Like, are you almost concerned that we, that there's like total unanimous agreements, Craig, that everyone is just in on Ben Johnson? I mean, if we've learned anything from George Costanza, it's that when everybody's moving one way, you go the other. Yeah, it does feel like the group think here is quite strong. And yeah, it's like when Shalloway went on game day, he was the only guy who picked, uh, I forget what team it was, and he was right.

Ohio. Ohio. And he was right. Ohio won. Yeah, I guess, is this a Caleb thing? And it's clear that Caleb is the easiest reclamation project and Ben Johnson is the person to do that.

Is that, D.K., you think, why everybody feels that the bears are the best landing spot for Ben Johnson just because of Caleb? Or is it kind of an entire roster? I mean, the general management, I think, has been actually pretty bad over the last two years. but right.

I think it's, yeah, the dot connecting is happening because Caleb, and this is something people were saying like before last year when Iber Fluse was like retained as the coach. They're like,

this is only going to last like a year or two because at some point you need to pair your good, your good young quarterback with an offensive coach long term. It's like the Andy Reed, Kyle Shanahan, you know, the teams across the NFL where they have their offensive coach, Sean McVeigh.

And the bears need to get their version of Sean McVeigh is basically what like so many people said during the offseason. And then, of course, we see what happens this year. It's a total disaster. They fire Iberfuse halfway through the season. Shane Waldron is a total dud.

And now we're kind of back at square one. The problem I think with this is, I don't think that it's a, I don't think we know exactly what Ben Johnson wants to do. Like, I don't know if he's going to want to go to Chicago. That's the problem. He turned down, I believe, Seattle and Washington, right, last year? Washington, two years in a row.

So two years ago, the pants. The Panthers offered Ben Johnson the coaching job, and he said no, which I, I mean, sounds pretty smart. And then last year, Washington really wanted Ben Johnson. And he turned them down. Like, Washington, it was a whole thing. Basically, Washington, all the owner and the GM, everyone was on a private plane to Detroit. And he texted them while they're on the game, while they're on the plane and said turn around. Like, I'm not, they turned the plane around.

And then they leaked a bunch of stuff and they were really salty about it. But part of, I hear Seattle as well or no? I don't remember exactly what the deal is with Seattle. Ben Johnson. I want to say Seattle took or sorry, Johnson took himself

out of the running in Seattle. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think that's what happened. So if he took himself out of Washington and Seattle, that means,

and I guess Carolina, that means, and if it was Carolina two years ago, is when they had the number one overall pick, right? Or no. Carolina,

they had traded out. Well, actually, no, I guess it was January. Yeah, he probably, yeah, they did have the one pick. But I think the issue was David Temper

had fired so many people at that point. It was unattractive. And then last year, what the word that came out from Ben Johnson was that this is all reported, but the idea was that Ben Johnson thought Washington was, quote, basketball guys.

Like he thought that it was Bob Myers. It was Bob Myers, who's the Warriors GM, who retired, who is, like, working with Josh Harris, who owns the Sixers and Washington. It was like, they're basketball guys, I'm out. And that is, there was just something about it that was weird. And I don't know, I hear those stories.

And I'm like, on one hand, I really respect it. Like, it sounded like Ben Johnson's point was like, you know what? You usually get one crack at being a coach. You want it to be the right one. And I felt like two years ago, he was like,

I don't want to work for Dave Tepper because he's a crazy person and fires people. He's impetuous. And the last year, I actually thought it was also, the Lions should have made the Super Bowl. And I think it's really cool

to be able to bring the Lions to the Super Bowl. And he has to make this decision. You have to make the decision like the next day. You lose that game. And you're like in the fourth quarter. You think you're going to win. And I think there was an emotional element too.

But I also hear that I'm like, maybe this guy's, maybe there is something wrong going on here. I don't know. I think there was also, this is just some, this was like whispers behind the scenes that were happening to,

and I don't know, I don't have any, like, first person experience with Ben Johnson, but like, I think there was maybe a little bit of like, I'm not going to get the job, therefore I'm going to quit type of deal,

where he was like, I'm taking my name out of the hat because I don't think I'm going to get the job. He didn't want to be embarrassed. I'm not breaking up with you, or you're not breaking up with me. I'm breaking up with you. Which with Team D.K.?

With, with the Seahawks and the commanders, initially. I don't know about the commanders, but I think throw out the Seahawks there. Maybe he had the feeling that he wasn't going to be the one that gets the job.

The commanders won, from what I understand, he was definitely going to get the job because, I mean, there's no bigger tell. They interviewed Dan Quinn, sent him home on coach. Like, Dan Quinn got called

by Washington Post reporter going through, like, regular TSA at Reagan Airport. And then they got on their private plane and flew to Detroit, got a text, turn the plane around, Dan Quinn flew back on the private. A pretty big flex from our boy, BJ.

Yeah. I could go either way. Part of me is like someone who actually has offered multiple head coaching opportunities and turns both down. I'm like, I kind of want a more. Like John Snow style, like reluctant leader. Well, I think that's, I think that's Ben Johnson's whole deal here. He has so much leverage because, number one.

He's marketed himself quite well. Right. And he has the flexibility to be like, look, this year wasn't a fluke with the Lions. Yeah. With the offense is coming back, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be able to make this thing juggernaut again. I'm going to continue to build my resume. So he had like a pretty rare opportunity where it wasn't like, you know, a lot of these guys that get opportunities and become hot coordinators or, you know, that like get into the head coach

circuit, it's like a variety of factors kind of elevated them to that point. And maybe this next year, it's not going to look the same. And I'm going to like lose my opportunity here to get a head coaching career or head coaching job. And so he had the, he had the flexibility to be like, look, I'm going to go back in this offense. It's going to kick ass again. So that's going to look good for me. I'm going to have a chance to win a Super Bowl. You know, there's, there's multiple variables here. And then this gives him the opportunity to really, you know, get the best situation where you have a stable franchise, you know, potentially like a really good relationship with GM, whatever it may be, and a good quarterback. And I think in, you know,

Connor Orr for Sports Illustrated writes an article every year that headlines the top coaching candidates. And he wrote in his article this year that those are the three things he's essentially looking for in a head coaching job. It's like stability, like a patient owner, a quarterback, and like a pretty good roster. So he's setting himself up to like... Do you want the bears? Like, do you think the bears are the best job?

I don't know. I don't think so, honestly. I think that stability, I mean, obviously they are... I don't know. I just feel like the bears are just such a mess. Like, who wants to take over that? I think a lot of these teams are messes. I really...

I really respect what Ben Johnson is doing it's really hard, I feel like, not to just immediately jump at a head coaching gig. Oh, yeah, because there's so much money, too. It's like generational wealth. That's true, too. Yeah, you go from making a million dollars a year to like six. You know, that's funny.

As I realized, when we were kind of preparing for this and I was reading stuff, I kind of realized I don't know anything about Ben Johnson. Like, Ben Johnson kind of came out of nowhere to me. He's 38 years old. This guy was in Miami for a long time. Then he's been on the Lions. He started as a tight end coach.

He's worked his way up. And, you know, so it's like, yeah, he turns down the Panthers job, Tepper, that whole thing's a mess. Maybe he didn't like Bryce Young. Then he turns down Washington who had the number two overall pick, probably knew they were going to get

either Caleb Williams or Jaden Daniels. So that's kind of interesting. Maybe Seattle, whether or not he had to say if he actually could get that job with Gino Smith. So it's like he's clearly making these concerted decisions about, like, he has an image in his head of what he wants. Yeah. And it's also, you have to,

I mean, like, he has the best spot imaginable right now. He has an amazing roster, offensively, defensively. He's got so many late-round picks that have worked out on offense. A lot of their trades have hit. He's revived Jared Gough. So, like, I kind of understand,

you know what I honestly think Ben Johnson should do? I think Ben Johnson should stay. And I think we should enter this new era of, you know, everybody, it's like, oh, Steve Spagnolo, the defensive coordinator, are going to leave the chiefs to get an offensive, or to get a head coaching job. No, he's been staying for so long

because he's been a head coach basically twice. Nobody wants them anymore. he's like 65 years old. And that's working right now for the Chiefs. I feel like if I'm Dan Campbell, I go in like I'm Jennifer Aniston on Friends, and I say, Matt LeBlanc makes what I make.

Right. You know what I mean? David Schwimmer makes what I make. Ben Johnson makes what I make, and he stays. And maybe Ben Johnson wouldn't want to do that. But I feel like that's the new future. It's like figure out how to get your culture guy and your guru

and keep them together rather than having to split them apart and either have your culture guy run an offense and try and get a new good. guru every two years, or you have the guru start his own situation like Mike McDaniel, and maybe he doesn't have the like head coaching prowess to like command a team. It's like the key is to keep them both together, I think. There's an offensive, there's an offensive coordinator issue, like the college football as a quarterback transfer portal issue.

There is something where I think the, I don't think there's any offensive coordinators that have been outside of the head coach play callers that have been in the same spot from the three seasons. So there is like a shuffling that's going on that's a problem. I don't think it's the future. just because I think this was a specific situation. This was one last job. This was like, hey, delivering a Super Bowl

in Detroit would be special. And in the aftermath of it, like, it's the next day. And he made it, I think it was informed. And it was your heart and your gut were aligned in the, what if we could win a Super Bowl for Detroit too? But this has got to be the offseason because you have your pick of the litter. And to D.K.'s point, I look at the bears.

I think the bears are a really mixed situation because I think the, I think Caleb Williams is great. I think he's going to be fantastic. I look at the Monday football game last night, and I understand they got blown out. The two criticisms out of that game in the whole season. One, the video of Caleb going to the bench and, like, you know, he's like he's in pain.

One, if you didn't watch the game, he was getting the shit kicked out of him. I don't want to hear anything about that video. I was not watching the game. We had a live rewatchables last night, so I was working that. And I only saw the clip. I couldn't even listen to the audio. And I was like, he either looks like he's having an orgasm or he's getting his leg cut off.

What is happening? That's the spectrum, horseshoe theory. They both kind of look the same. But no, I just look. at Caleb, I don't know, I have no, no issue. I think Caleb's going to be a superstar still. And I look at this team and I know he's played terribly. I know the bear's offense is terrible. But where is the coaching? I don't know. I don't understand the criticism. It's like they fired Eberflus because like I know that was tough. But yeah, the defense fell apart. He was running the defense.

Then the offense falls apart because your offensive coordinator is gone. The passing game coordinator, coordinator, Thomas is now the head coach. Like he's not getting coach. That's why he's doing too much. I think he's spending more time on the offense now. The one thing I'll say about the bears, that's a weird part of this thing. The bears, so the mom who owns the bears is 101 years old. She has 10 kids. Five of them work for the team.

Five of them don't. They're all in their 50s or 60s. All of them own 4% of the bears. That's weird. That's weird. It's like succession. There was only what, four kids? There's 10 McCaskys.

So navigating that's weird. They're going to have to sell the team what they want to build a stadium and sell. So like that's a weird dynamic too. But, D.K., if you don't think the Bears are the best team, like, what do you think is a better team than the Bears to go to? Um, I mean, I think there's better teams out there that are less likely to have an opening, I guess. One of the main ones, right? Like, it's like probably the Jaguar, the Raiders, the Giants. It's easy for us to sit here and say, like, oh, the Bengals fire Zach Taylor. No, we can't do that. But I will, that just to do that really quick, Marvin Lewis, his tenure as head coach for the Bengals was longer than the Iraq War.

So he won no playoff games, and he was the coach longer than the Iraq War. Zach Taylor was in the Super Bowl three years ago. Like, I don't think they're going to fire Zach. They're not firing Zach Taylor. They're probably going to end the season with a winning record. Like, it'll be fine. It's basically Bears Patriots, or not even Patriots, it's basically Bears, Jags, Raiders, Saints. Let's do it real quick.

So jobs that are already open. Bears, Jet Saints. Bears are better than those. Bears are better job than Jets or Saints. Probably firing someone, Giants, Raiders, Jaguars, maybe cowboys. I think the only one you would argue is a better job than those is the Jaguars. Yeah, I agree.

And that's like, yeah, and that's really debatable. I guess you're right, man. It is kind of crazy to think about it. Like, my thought if I'm, if I'm Ben Johnson is like, maybe I just wait for another cycle. This offense is going to be really good again. I'm surprised. He's 38. He's 38.

He's 38. He's 38. Lawrence and Caleb Williams are both out there. And like, they both have. have better offensive lines than you usually get in these kind of situations. I don't know. I think the Bears are Jackson is solid. Just so much depends on what's going to happen, I guess.

So, like, the pros for the Bears, they have a good quarterback, I think. They have plenty of defensive talent. They have a good amount of cap space for next year. The best roster of all these teams. Yeah, they have 62 million in cap space next year right now, which is six most in the NFL. So they're set up for long-term success. The problem is, are they going to keep Ryan Poles? Does Ryan Poles vibe with Ben Johnson?

Yes. Can I give a weird take? I kind of don't know if Ryan Poles has a great case to keep his job if there was any like objective evaluation here because Ryan Poles's whole job. What did it for you? The Chase Claypool trade? Which one? That's my thing.

A crazy thing that we never talked to, that never gets talked about. You know how everyone says, oh, like look, the Panthers got Bryce Young and the Bears got like DJ Moore and they ended up with Caleb Williams and all this stuff. Do you realize what we would be saying about Ryan Poles if? if the Panthers had just taken CJ Stroud and won eight games. Because then the Bears would have traded out of the CJ Stroud pick for the 14th pick in the draft probably. And they never would have gotten Caleb.

They would have got, you know, they would have had the 14th pick. And they would just have DJ Moore and not CJ Stroud. And then you look at the rest of the record. And I'm like, okay, the Montez Sweat trade worked out. But yeah, the 32nd pick being traded for Claypool, like letting Darnell Mooney go to pay five million more to Keenan Allen, who's five years older. And I'm like, there's very... I think that's aged a little bit better as a season.

is going on, though. Yeah, Keenade Town's playing well. I just, I don't know. I overall, I look at Ryan Poles and I'm like, if you think Ben Johnson needs a GM to come in, like the Kyle Shannon coming with John Lynch on matching six-year contracts, I don't know. Schill Capati always says that you want to bring your coach in GM and say no infighting, no infighting, you're both going to get fired together or not at all, so learn to work

together. I feel like that's what you got to do. And when you kind of fire one person, but the GM stays, it's always like a weird thing. So I think so I think basically you're right. I've come around. I think the bears probably are the best job right now that we know of. I think the problem is I don't feel confident

that Ben Johnson wants to go coach for this team. I guess that's where I am. Do you think... Yeah, look, I agree. When it's all said and done, I think they have the best roster, the most juice, they have Caleb, like,

good city. Draft three offensive linemen and go to work is kind of my opinion on that. It's also like, does it matter that they're in the division? That's what I was going to ask. I think a little... That'd be kind of weird, right?

Ben Johnson, I mean, if he wins a Super Bowl for Detroit, I almost think it's easier to go interdivision. You want to go up against Dan Campbell now? But if they lose it. If they don't win the Super Bowl this year and then he goes to Chicago and then starts to beat Detroit, that would be a lot.

It's interesting, yeah. Apple test, skin, core, skin, meat core. It's yes, no, yes. Like, of course it matters. It's in the division. And you get in the meat of it, like, look, he's going to go somewhere. Everyone's happy for him. Like, you take the best chance.

It's a business, professional. Core, of course it matters. Of course the line's going to take it personally. Of course the line's going to kick your ass. Of course you're going to have to feel, can you measure up to Dan Campbell? Of course it's going to be weird if you're replaced and it's fine. Of course it's going to be weird if the lines kick the shit out of you every time.

Like, it is weird. I'm not saying that should influence this decision, but it is very, like, intelligently and politely lying through your teeth to pretend like that's not a thing. Do you think Dan Campbell would congratulate him and not care? Or do you think deep down he'd be like, fuck you? Both. Like the Larry Bird, Magic Johnson. Both. I think that he genuinely would be happy for him.

And also, they're actually absolutely going to set out to destroy. That's just like the nature of being a pro. But I think the only thing, but if he doesn't go to Chicago, Jackson. I think to Jack, Doug Peterson's toast. I mean,

every week there's a report that basically they're waiting for a three touchdown loss to fire Doug Peterson. Won't do it. I know, it won't do it. Yeah.

Teams too dialed. I look at the Jags. Sassy Mac. Yeah. I do think with the Jags job, Dick, I'm curious what you think because I look at the Jags

as location, location, location, location, quarterback. That's Trevor Lawrence. don't care what people say about Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence is one of the best quarterbacks in the history of, I could take a coaching job here for a bad team. Like very few people get to take a job with the Trevor Lawrence.

Location, divisional politics. You're talking about, I mean, you go to the Bears. You've got to fight off the Vikings, Packers, Lions. Those are three of the best six coaches in the NFL. They're set up really well for the long term. Yeah. With the AFC South, I mean, again, that NFC North with the, that Bears job is tough. AFC South, all right, the Titans, the Colts, the Texans, I can work with that.

good divisional politics and media attention, the Jaguars, I think sometimes there's more heat on the University of Florida coach than there is in the Jaguars. So, like, that's a really good trifecta. And it's just a matter of how, like, can you get rid of Trent Balke? The GM was like a cockroach who somehow beat Jim Harbaugh on a power struggle 10 years ago. And is the son, Tony Khan, going to, like, run his weird wrestling startup company and then and then and then? But if you sort that out, I think the Jags are actually a really good job.

You know what's nice about the Jags? and it's different from Chicago is there's no culture in Jacksonville. And I mean that as a positive. Like, and almost in the same way there, there's really no culture with the Chargers. And Harbaugh could come in and just spread his tentacles and completely take over. Ben Johnson will be able to walk into Jacksonville and be like,

this is all mine. I can do whatever I want. There's no, there's no Bob Kraft, Patriot, Belichick, cloud. You're not in anyone's shadow. No. Yeah. Like, he walks in and he is like immediately the best coach the Jags have ever had.

Well, that's Craig. Tom Gofflin, baby. It's interesting because that's exactly what I wrote when I was taking notes on the Jags. It's like, my opinion, the best candidate is a culture guy because you have an opportunity to like lay the foundation, reset. I think one of the big issues right now with the Jags is just like ground up. They just don't really have like a tradition, a culture, a, like a mantra, anything really there.

It's just like, I don't know, like Doug Peterson kind of seemed like he was brought in as like, you're going to pair up with this quarterback. You're going to fix the offense, and we're all going to go from there. I think they need a more, a guy that's more in line with like Gabe Rable, Dan Campbell, guy who commands immediate respect

from everyone on the roster. And, you know, the fan base in the media. And I don't know. Like, I'm just thinking, like, maybe this isn't he also like not a great fit for Ben Johnson, who's not, I don't think he's going to be a culture guy.

I think he's going to be like scheme. I think Lawrence is so, honestly, I think this, is a solid spot for Ben Johnson, but I agree if you're Mike Vrable, though, and I think Mike Vrable,

just to be, I think Belichick was the best coach in the market. I understand why you didn't get hired, but I also think it's a little silly. I think Vrable is the second best culture guy. I think Vrable is like, I think Vrable has a 20% shot

at being like the next Mike Ditka. Obviously, all these guys might fail. I'm most confident that Mike Vrable won't fail. And if you're Vrable, I think there's three spots you're looking at and the Jaguars are one of the three for everything you guys just said. The other,

the Patriots, I don't think they're going to fire Gerard Mayo, frankly, because Bob Kraft is kind of being a little bitch for the whole year of just like his Belichick got fired, victory lap, making the documentaries. There's frankly too much stubbornness to admit that Gerard Mayo was a miss. I don't think he'll admit it because this whole year was about proving that it wasn't Brady and Belichick. It was Brady, me and Belichick. And having said that, if there was any objectivity to New England, they would fire Gerard Mayo, hire Mike Rable, give Mike Rable the organization. Mike Vrable is 100% the spiritual successor to Bill Belichick's coaching legacy

and it's crazy to think that they could hand the organization to Vrable, give him Drake May. I think they could challenge the bill that bills for the division as soon as 2026 if they did that. And they're not going to do it because they're cowards. So if you're Vrable, I think you, that's number one, but you look at the Jags

as like one of the other top two things on the market. I think Vrable would be a great fit for Jacksonville. That's like the way I'm looking at it right now, it's like just come in there. He commands, respect. And you know what I mean? Like he's going to, he's going to create this new culture there. The Titans always punched above their weight in terms of like, they were never like a really great roster, but they were going to the like playoffs. Dude, the game LaBardi brought up all the time

when he almost beat the Chiefs with Malik Willis throwing 30 passes in a game. That was one of the most incredibly coached games I've ever seen. If you go back and look at what Vrable did with the Titans, he was the coach there for six years. Year one, nine and seven, year two, nine and seven went to a conference championship year three 11 and five then he went 12 and five there were a one season yeah oh then they got hurt with tannihill and then he had will levis like i mean brable did a very very very good job with with that tennessee offense and and he had arthur smith with him too he did a great job we got an email from someone saying basically why are we so up vrabel's ass and like why are we into vrabble and like oh well he hasn't won that many games and

i'm like it's about doing more with less and that it's going to be the theme of a lot of what i think about these coaches but you look at rabble and in a short amount of time beat the ravens in the playoffs, kicked the absolute shit out of the Buffalo Bills. Like, I think he built the bills 28 to 3 on a Monday night football game. Dude, he was the one seed was right at a month. I think you just stopped there. Like he, like all these Super Bowl contenders, the Ravens Bill's Chiefs, he kicked their fucking asses in December and January.

And to your point, like, like, more with less more than anyone. And again, I was the only other spot I think he could go that I think makes sense. Austin Gale who works here at the ringer, and he's a huge Raiders fan. I was talking to him this morning. I think he's dead rat. I think Mike Vrable goes to the Raiders. And all of it aligns. Tom Brady is now a minority owner there. And Mark Davis is going to lean on Tom Brady. You know who else? Richard Seymour, another Patriots defender. Like, Mike Vrable comes in, culture guy, Raiders. I think that makes a ton of sense. Tom Telesco is like the weakest one-year GM I've ever seen. Tom Telesco, GMs never get a second shot. He did.

And then the team sucks. Honestly, Mike Frable's kind of like. like if Antonio Pierce had played for Bill Belichick his whole career. And so I actually think it makes a ton of sense. I think it makes sense, but do you think if Ravel was offered, hey, you can be the coach of Trevor Lawrence and the Jags or Caleb Williams and the Bears, or you'd go to the Raiders? You think he would rather go to the Raiders just because of the family ties? That's where it's hard to put yourself in the shoes, because I think that that's where

is, I'm curious, and I don't know the answer, is, if you're Mike Vrable, are you looking at the team level of, well, I got Trevor Lawrence and I have these people, or are you looking at ownership level and you're like on one hand I have shot con the jaguar's owner and his son's involved what do you look at the Raiders you're like Tom Brady owns his 5% owner of the team what's going to happen between Brady and Mark Davis where what could

happen where Brady's football opinion doesn't get respected you know what I mean or at least buy you some time so that's the thing the alternative for that though is that Josh McDaniels was an epic disaster and he comes from sort of the Patriots way blah blah but he's always sucked as like I think

the difference Brable to me is the actual Belichick's successor because he's the only one who learned everything. Like Belichick was the greatest game planner at week to week. Vrable was the guy on the field, like calling plays and stuff. Vrable was the brains of the defense in a lot of ways. Vrable feels like weirdly the safer option. Ben Johnson is the bell of the ball. Everyone's going after.

But I feel like if I were the GM of a team, I would bring Vrabel in and say, I don't want Ben Johnson. I want you. D.K. I do think the Raiders fire appears. If you're the Raiders, would you fire, would you, if, would you rather have Brady go full press blitz on Vrable? or would you like, fuck, it just hired Dion, whatever.

Or just settle for some of the candidate. Deon? I mean, if I'm the owner of the Raiders. Yeah. I don't know. That's tough. I probably would go with Rable. That's the thing. Is D.K. the owner or is D.K. Mark Davis? Both. We can give D.K. Mark Davis's weird hair. Would you rather have Mark Davis's hair with the exact haircut or have, you know,

you were about to say be bald and you didn't? I did. I did. That is what happened. It's a fact. It's fine to say it. He's not, no, you're not bald. You shave your head. There's a difference. Yeah, I'm pretty bald. You said it, not me. Yeah, I know.

I'm giving you permission to say it. It's fine. You almost said it. You started the B and then you stopped. I didn't know. I didn't know if that was, because there's a different thing. It's like,

can I call people short if they're short? I don't know if I want to say that. You know what I mean? Well, it's like, I respect it. That's fine. She's Serrano has totally normal hair. She's been shaving it for 10 years.

And none of us knew that. And he just grew it out. So I don't know. But now I'm learning things all the time. If you're Mark Davis is hiring Dion Sanders I, dude, honestly, they should do it. I think they should 100% do it. Run it back if you're the Jets, draft the Sanders.

I just honestly, just do it. I think, yeah, Vrabel to Jackson will make sense to me if Ben Johnson goes. Also, you know what else would work? If Ben Johnson goes to the Jaguars, Vrable should go to Chicago. Like, I think Vrable, I think the defensive, like, leaning into cold weather physical toughness, I think would be much needed. I think that he would be a Mike Dica level. I know he was a tight end, but like, I think that, I think that,

that energy would work. DK, what do you think of Craig's pitch on Sunday that the Jets should just run it back with Air Rogers? So you're saying they should go with Ulrich again? No, no, I run it back with Rogers. They still have to go get a coach. Oh, okay, okay.

But do you think the Jets, I almost think you have to think about this before you hire people? Because the Jets fired the GM and coach. Robert Sala got fired and Joe Douglas, the GM's also been fired. You almost, in the interview process, have to be thinking about

whether you want to do it with Rogers or without, which what do you? I'm obsessed with what Craig said about how you put it back with Rogers. I kind of think so. I think like tongue in cheek, I'm really into it because it's good content. I don't know for sure how I'd feel if I was the one taking over the team. But ultimately,

like it's a matter of what are your other options? You know what I mean? Exactly. Are you going to sign Sam Darnold? Absolutely fucking not. That's not going to happen. Are you going to go out and draft a quarterback and start building from like the bottom up

and just stink in year one and just kind of know that's going to be a thing. I saw, Craig, when you tweeted that out, someone said, and I thought this was interesting. It's like, I'm not letting Aaron Rogers hijack another year, which I think is a valid point, because he does just hijack the whole team. But I think he gives you a better chance of being competitive

than some other guy on the, like, basically what we know, who's on the market this offseason. And considering, like, that Sam Darnel simply will not go to the Jets, I would almost guarantee that. Like, who are the other options that they have, quarterback right now. You can flip to the Saints for Derek Carr. I'm like,

this thing is you have to pay the money. Well, that doesn't get you anywhere. That's what you're saying. I've come. I agree. I've come around. And I thought when Craig said it, it was like a bit.

And I've thought about it a lot more. And maybe we're over indexing on that one game against the Jaguars. But I'm like, you know what? Obviously, it's like, not even one game is four minutes against the Jaguars. They've lost seven games by less than six points.

Yeah. We wouldn't be the first dudes to like make some bad life decisions on like a great four minutes. But. Hey, but I do think. That was funny. Thank you. Every now and then, broken clocks.

I do think that, like, the Jets are a bad team at making decisions, and you look at this and you're like, oh, Rogers, the first year off the Achilles. Like, he'll probably be healthier at the beginning of next year. The whole offseason with Devonte. I know this is insane. I'm sure there's a lot of people listening right now. Like, how the fuck could you think the Jets should bring Rogers back? Here's how.

You find a head coach you can work with him and a GM who doesn't need him. And I think that's the point is it's like the Packers in the last seasons where it's like, Rogers has no option. options. This isn't an Aaron Rogers gets to like have his way and like anyone he wants gets signed. It's like he got his influence. Devante Adams is on the team. Like he doesn't get to pick the backup quarterback to be Tim Boyle anymore. He doesn't get to determine no more Alam Lazard trades. It's like Lazard and Devante can stay. But otherwise you need a motivated Rogers. You piss him off. You do sign a bridge quarterback, but not to start. You take a risk on like, I don't know

if Justin Fields is the perfect comp, but like a Justin Fields ask former first rounder to sit behind him and like teach him, bitch. And like, you have developmental players behind him. And it's like, you know what? You're on a one your deal. You know what? He's not going anywhere else. I do not think the Tennessee Titans are going to take a chance on him.

I don't think the Browns are going to take a chance on it. The whole, like, you're going to dictate your terms. The reality is he's going to get paid a lot of money. And financially, it's like 50 million dead money if they cut him. They got to pay him a $35 million check to stay. But long story short, it's $50 million to cut him this year. If you keep him another year at $65. it's not as bad as it sounds.

The NFL salary cap by the time they cut them would be $300 million. Like, it's not that big of a deal. Do you want me to list off some of the free agent quarterbacks right now? Yeah. Going into next year. So it's Sam Darnold.

This is, according to snaps played this season, this is the rankings. Sam Darnold, Russell, who's almost surely going to stay with the Steelers, I would guess. Oh, yeah. But he'll be out there. James Winston, though.

He won't make it to free agents. James Winston, Cooper Rush, Justin Fields, Jacoby Brissette, Mac Jones, Joe Flacko, Andy Dalton, Mason Rudolph, Drew Locke, Desmond Ritter. There's no good options. It's either a trade, which could happen, a draft a rookie, and know that you're going to be terrible,

which, I mean, that's possible. They could definitely do that. They could go that route. But you could draft a rookie and then, you know. Look, I think if they had the first pick in the draft, this would be a different conversation, but they're going to have like the eighth or ninth. They're not going to be in quarterback range.

And there's a thing. I think some people are probably listening to this and like, oh, it's sunk cost fallacy because you're all in on Rogers. And it's like, no, it's the other way around. You're stuck with this. Can you make the best of it? And I think that you have the team built for fucking Aaron Rogers. You have a team built for this.

Maybe bring it a GM and like honestly, I think you bring into the job. Load the trenches, add defensive linemen, add offensive linemen, and build an environment that will still work for the next quarterback, actively search for the next guy. But go into next offseason with your O-line, Devante Adams and Rogers, and try to compete with the bills of the division title with a healthy guy. And I really, I know it's insane. And it's like the funniest possible thing.

But I've come all the way around where I'm like, I do think, frankly, Rogers will one, play better in an environment that's not catering who is every whim and kind of makes him angry. And also, I am so, I do not see, I do not see how they can do something actually better next year.

Who do you like as coach for the Jets next year? Do you have any people in mind? I think it's easier to find a GM than a coach. A coach that will put up with this, I'm very curious. Do you hire a defensive coach? A culture coach? Someone like Brian Flores.

Someone like, so there's some of the O.C. that are hot right now. Liam Cohen, the Buccaneers O.C., Cliff Kingsbury. Todd Monkin, the Ravens guy.

Kellan Moore, Cowboys guy, Josh McCown, his name's getting thrown out there. There's a bunch of defensive guys that are kind of on the radar. I don't know, like,

of those guys, I'm not, I don't know what I like there, really. I don't like, I think Liam Cohen for the bucks is the offensive guy that intrigues me most.

I'm not interested in Kellan Moore. No offense to Kellan Moore. I've never been super impressed to Kellan Moore's like a head coach candidate. Part of it's like you don't know, right? I don't know if there's any thing that is hard. Like, we're on the outside.

Teams that get to interview these guys for eight hours apiece three times, never, like, you're batting 50% at best. Do we, one of the hardest things of covering the NFL is trying to like see how an offensive coordinator could be a head coach. Meanwhile, even your coordinating job. Now you're going to run a building of 200 people.

Coordinators don't even manage the fucking clock. Never mind all the other things you have to do. I think all this time, this Bill Cowher quote where it's like, I don't coach players, I coach coaches. And there's a lot of ways it's going to, cat, but I don't want to pretend to know who would work or who, but in that situation with Rogers, maybe we're nuts and it's not going to happen. Who's out there? Robert Sala.

Dude, okay. My hot take is, I actually think Sala's a totally fine candidate. And like, if I could, I still think Sala didn't get to pick Zach Wilson, didn't get to determine they wouldn't replace Rogers after he had the Achilles injury. And I'm like, I bet Sala would do a great job in his second stint. I think that the Jets, I don't, maybe this is totally just like, you know, like myopic or whatever. But they need to pick somebody who like the, the, the,

media knows and is not going to just make fun of. Like, no more Adam Gases, no more unknown kind of guys coming up through the ranks. Just pick, like, I know that we've said Vrabel a lot, but like a guy like Vrabel where it's like he's already done it. He's established. You know, he's respected. Somebody like that where, I don't know. I'm just thinking like every, the Jets just cycling through like coach after coach

where it's like, I'm just, I keep thinking of the Adam Gase like introductory presser where it's like, okay, this isn't working. I do think, I feel like. you need to challenge Rogers with another offensive mind. That's why I'm like, maybe Liam Cohen could come in and challenge him enough, like Matt LaFleur did, where even if they're not best friends, it actually ultimately works out better that they're both kind of budding heads and the best product is what you get on the field.

I mean, Liam Cohen basically got Will Levis a job and is the reason he is getting paid money in the NFL because he was with him in Kentucky. He continued Baker's Ascent. He's coming from the McBaytree. I would rather do Liam Cohen than like another defensive-minded, hard-nosed Brian Flores type that comes in. And then Rogers, once again, is just like running a muck on the offense. He's just running his offense.

You can't let it be his fiefdom anymore. You're going to have to work with him. But I agree, Craig. Rogers is the energy of the really, really smart kid in the back of class where if he doesn't respect the teacher, he's just a fucking menace. And I totally. But again, and again, maybe we're insane. Just bring Dion in.

Just throw Dion and see what happens. You know, it would be the worst for the Jets? Like, the perfect example of this guy that, like, I think Cliff Kingsbury should not be a head coach. I think we, he's coming for one good year. like had six good games, all right? I agree. We need to relax with Cliff Kingsbury. He shouldn't be a head coach for 10 years.

Let's really see how this works out. I agree. So the Jets are a tough job because that's the flip side is if you keep Rogers, like, it's a tough sell. I'm sure so many emails or your fantasy football Gmail if you're a Jets fan who's like just going frothing at the mouth and anger at how. Who does the Jets fans want? That's what I want to do you want to happen? I'm kind of, I don't know.

I'm amazed. So of all the teams we've talked about, the worst, the worst, The worst team that you would want to join right now as a head coach is the Saints, right? I think it's the Saints. I think it's the Saints. The Saints are in a cap death spiral. We talk about the cap a lot. The NFL salary cap of the most part is.

It's, it's, it's. So without going into the accounting of it, just to describe what's going on with the Saints, they basically are like, joining the Saints as head coach is kind of like, it's like joining a company that's like under investigation by like the IRS for tax evasion. and you're going to go and run the company. Like the Saints, I went through this. They have to adjust literally every single veteran contract on the roster to come cap compliant. And I'll go through this list.

They have already extended Alvin Camara, who's going to be 30. They've traded Marshall and Latimore, the cornerback. They're going to have to find someone to take Derek Carr. Like they'll probably have to trade Derek Carr away. They're going to have to cut Ryan Ray. Who's going to take him? They're going to have to find someone and take some money to do it. They're going to have to cut Ryan Ramick to right tackle.

They're going to have to cut Cam Jordan, who's like the best defender they've had in years. They're going to have to cut Jamal Williams. They might have to restructure Taysam Hill, even after this knee injury. They might have to restructure him. He's 34 years old. And when I say restructure, I mean, like, keep him on for longer. Like extend him. They might have to restructure and extend to Mario Davis, who at 35 is probably like the oldest inside linebacker in the NFL.

They're going to have to keep him. They're going to have to restructure Kaelin Saunders. They're going to have to restructure Cedric Wilson, Jr. That is all just to sign your draft class. that is to sign a draft class. That is not include improving the team. Then you're going to have to do it again next year. You will go in and you're going to negotiate like, oh, I want patience and all this stuff.

You are the fall guy. Like you are the hot potato fall guy who will go in and do this awful job for two to three years. And then when they're actually ready, they will fire you and get someone else. If you had to bet on the team to be the worst team in the NFL over the next three years, it's New Orleans? I think so because they're in this middle ground where they're, been so competitive because they're like leaning on these crazy veterans. So like it's short term like you're competitive. But the bottom is going to fall out where they literally they have to hit draft packs to improve. The Saints don't hit their draft picks. They do not have other avenues of getting

quality players. We just did the rewatchables on this movie called The Gambler from 2014 with Mark Wahlberg. And the whole movie is he's this like degenerate poker player and he just keeps borrowing more money from loan sharks in order to pay them back. Because he already owes them money, but he has to borrow more from them. That's literally what's going with the players. It's like, yeah, the only, yeah, it's the only people you get money from is your loan sharks. The only way they get cap space is from the existing veterans

who are 35 on the team. So I don't want the same. It's like the Martin Gale system. This is why you just, this is why you don't just continue doubling down. And this is the version, the Saints are the version of the Panthers last year when the Panthers hired Dave Canales.

And it's because nobody like Ben Johnson, no good candidate that had options would take a job for Dave Tepper who was paying three coaches he had already fired. Like, the Saints are that job where they're going to give it to someone who frankly didn't probably have a ton of other options but wants to be a head coach.

Right. I want to ask you guys about the Giants. I think they have to fire Dable and Joe Shane. What a fucking mess. This whole thing was supposed to be about the post-Daniel Jones era. That's why the two of them came in. What's the stepbrother's joke, which is like, I won't say the foreword,

but like, we'll put up with the, you know what, in the meantime, that is like what they were doing with Daniel Jones. It was like, we're just going to ride this out, and then he'll be gone and we can start our rebuild together as a duo. and then Daniel Jones had one good season. They re-signed him and everything got ruined. And I feel like Daveau woke up from like a blackout. And he was like, wait a minute, what happened?

This was not how this was supposed to go. To give you an idea since they won that playoff game, like since that playoff season, the last two years, the Giants have the fewest points in the NFL. They're tied with the Patriots for lasting points. And with like a $100 million quarterback. And the reason that I usually am team patience. I'm usually like you want to give, like you don't want to be a revolving.

There's a reason that like the Browns have had 20 coaches in 20 years and the Steelers have had three coaches since Richard Nixon was president. Stability matters. Having said that, my issue with the Giants and Brian Dable is they get blown out so much. Like the Giants are like not competitive. They're not competitive often. And I couldn't believe this. What is your definition of a blowout?

I was thinking 17 point loss or 20. It was like 14 or more. Of course, I think. 17. The Giants are tied. They have the most 17 point losses or more in the last two seasons. Okay, but, okay. There was 20 point losses.

Like, they're getting fucking crushed. Let me ask you this. Heffitz. So if we agree that, let's say Ben Johnson and Mike Rabel are the two top candidates right now, right? But the two top landing spots are probably Chicago, Jacksonville, you know, I don't know where the Raiders fall. So let's just say you're not getting Mike Rable or Ben Johnson. Would you rather have the third guy on that list, whoever that is, maybe Liam Cohen, Brian Flores, Robert Sala, talk, or would you rather just keep Joe Shane and Brian? I have good news.

The next head coach of the New York Giants should be Steve Spagnolo. Again, right back. The defense coordinator for the chiefs, Steve Spagnolo won. It'll make the fans happy. It'll make the fans happy. Like, Steve Spagnolo was the coordinator when the Giants beat the undefeated Patriots. Best day of my life. It will energize the fans.

Having said that. Steve Spagnolo is also absolutely the right person for the job. Steve Spagnolo has won four Super Bowls as a coordinator. He has more Super Bowl wins than any coordinator in the history of the NFL. The idea that he's not even like a top coaching candidate is just ageism. Does he want to be one? Do we know that? I think, yeah, he's like 60.

He's 59, so he stopped getting interviews. He's 64. Okay, fine, whatever. Doesn't matter. I'm just saying, does he want one? Or is he like, hey, this is fun. I have Patrick Mahomes. I do not think he's turning down head.

coaching jobs. No, I think the problems are in the playoffs every year. So, right. Am I crazy? I'm like living in this like good is good enough, you know, don't let good get in the way or don't let great get in the way of good. A lot of these guys aren't wired that way. No, I totally get it. And I know, I know that like Bob Iger came back to Disney when he had $800 million because these guys are wired differently. But part of me's like, you got a really good thing going right now, Steve, you and Andy Reed, Mahomes, like, just keep riding. But the Giants, though, is perfect. I agree. I don't know if Spagnola would go to do it for like the Saints.

I think the Giants, though, like getting to go back to where he was. And again, the other part, again, who is doing them more with less? That's the question I ask. I would argue strongly, there is actually no coordinator in the NFL that is doing more with less than Steve Spagnolo.

Did you guys know that the chiefs have given up the fewest points in the NFL over the last two seasons? Yeah, and they like have like a rotating cast at like corner, you know, they like... traded away their best corner this off season? It's not just corner.

They have given up the fewest points in the NFL with the youngest defense in the league. They just won back-to-back Super Bowls. More than half the starters on defense when they did back-to-back Super Bowls. We're in their first or second season. More than half the starters. All the backups, basically, all the backups. Like, if you just look at their starting 11 on defense and the 11 guys behind him, like 16 of the 22 defenders were 23 or 24 years old.

draft picks. We're not talking. There's first rounders to Trent McDuffie, George Carloffatis. We're also talking fifth round picks. We're talking mid-round picks. Leo Channal, like these guys, he coached them up and not just won back-to-back Super Bowls in the playoffs, fewest points in the league in the regular season. Who is doing anything remotely like that in the NFL?

And then the idea that he's not a coaching candidate because he's older, he, oh, it's like, oh, Steve Spagnolo, he screwed up as the Rams Head coach in 2011. In 2011, Donald Trump was on the social. Celebrity Apprentice. That was like a lifetime ago. Yeah. I mean, I haven't learned anything since 2011 either, though. So, you know, maybe people don't want him.

Yeah. Your entire 30s were a while. Yeah. I barely remember it. Then there was the 80s. Yeah. No, I don't know. I think like, my question is, is he, well, obviously, Craig's first is, does he want to

be head coach? That sounds terrible to me to leave. What's your memory of him as a head coach? Because he was the interim head coach for the Giants for, like, like a minute in 2017. I'm just like, does he have the gravitas of a head coach? Does he want to be a head coach? But what is that question based on?

If he doesn't want to be, then he's not going to take the interview. But like, I feel like, I think it's fair to have the assumption he wants to be an NFL head coach. Let's say he doesn't. Okay. And Spagnolo's out of the equation. Who do you want? Where is the line where you'd rather just keep Daibol and Shane?

I'll tell you right now. Guys I would take over. And I like Daibel. And I've changed my mind of this recent. It's the lack of competitiveness. Belichick, I would have just given the whole team to Belichick because most of these candidates are going to fucking suck anyway. I think the thing with Belichick was no one I really consider the upside.

The downsides were like so obvious of like Belichick will be the oldest coach in the NFL. Again, he doesn't know what he's going to bring in Patricia and Joe Judge. I get all that. I feel like no one ever discussed the upside of like what if he's fucking good at the job. Belichick would have been number one. I think Vrable is two. I'll take if Ben Johnson wants to come with a Giants, sure. What are we going to do to say no?

That's three. Liam Cohen, I think is worth a shot for. I actually think Brian Flores is a really underrated candidate. He's not going to get the job because Brian Flores is suing three NFL teams, I believe, including like the New York Giants because of issues with the hiring and Rooney Rule stuff. And like there's an active lawsuit going on there. So like he's not going to, I don't think he's going to get a head coaching job. But I think people forget that Brian Flores, like, I understand that there were issues with the offense when he was in Miami.

I understand that Brian Flores was mean to Tua. Do you guys realize that he had like the same record as Mike McDaniel as the coach while the owner of the Dolphins was actively trying to pay him to lose games. Like the allegations in the lawsuit that's come forward is that the Dolphins owner, allegedly, was trying to pay Brian Flores $100,000 a pop to lose so they could tank. And Brian Flores has won almost as many games that season as fucking Mike McDaniel. I agree. I mean, I think Flores is a great option.

So he's not going to get a job because he's suing teams. But that's five, that's six with Liam Cohen. I'm also the only person left in the world that would give him. of Robert Salas shake. You can't do it if you're the Giants because you can't take the Jets' leftovers. Same stadium.

Yeah. Yeah. But I actually think Salas will be a good head coach again one day. But yeah, that's kind of where I'm at, like sick. Oh, and Todd Monkin for the Ravens. I think Todd Monkin, he's all another older guy. I just out on all these young guys.

I just don't like. Send Todd Monkin to the Bears. Dude, yeah. I think there's a misnomer that like everyone needs the next Sean McVeigh. And this is all Sean McVeigh's fault. Where it's like, there's this idea that because you're young, your ideas are new. A lot of what we're actually seeing

is the older coaches have the new ideas right now. That's like really what's going on. It's not just people who know Kyle Shanahan and McVeigh. You know, like, in like the older communities, like the old people's libido actually starts to come back around and tick back up. Exactly. It's like you enter, you enter like yolo mode.

I'm just going to, I'm going to do what I've always wanted to do. Old people fuck. Belichick, Spagdolo. Let the oldest coach. Is Spaggs married? What's Spaggs deal? Yeah, he's got kids. When I was, yeah, I, when I was in the Chiefs locker when they won the second Super Bowl in a row,

and Spagnolo took a selfie with the defense. He had like an Android with one of those cases that's also his wallet. And I literally got to witness, you know the progressive commercial where they can't turn the photo around with L.O. Cool J? And they're like, that's not how you take it. I got to witness him trying to take a selfie with his entire defense trying to correct how he uses his phone. It's magical. Everyone loved him. Anyway. We should stay in Casey.

No, be out coach. Enjoy your life. Four Super Bowls, not enough as a defensive coordinator. No, win 10. Okay, the last team I want to hit here is the Cowboys. So this isn't a firing situation. This is the Mike McCarthy's contracts actually up. And the Cowboys do this all the time.

They let Jason Garrett's contract run down three times because Jerry Jones, you know, doesn't want to pay anyone money if they're not work. That's basically, that's really how it is. And, DK, I'm curious, do you think the Cowboys let Mike McCarthy go and take another guy? Or where I'm kind of leading, this is a team that gave Jason Garrett 10 years across three contracts. Dude, I was looking that up today. I was shocked to realize that Jason Garrett was there from 2010 to 2019. They're like a bad version of the Steelers where they're really committed, but to not very good coaches,

where the Steelers commit to really good coaches. Every year of his contract, I believe Jason Gere, in the contract year, went eight and eight, and they brought him back. I believe it happened three times. The Cowboys have only had nine coaches. The Raiders have had nine coaches since 2010. My God. The best staff. Nine coaches in 15 years?

If you want to know the importance of all this, the Steelers and Ravens have had two GMs since Craig and I were born, basically. Or like, at least since Kai was born in the 21st century, the Browns have had 10. And the Steelers and Ravens have had two head coaches since Kai. was born and the Browns have had 22. I don't know what to think about I don't even know what to think about McCarthy because like they hired he

admitted to lying about what he had done all off season like he watched every single NFL game or something like to me that would be like okay I'm definitely not bringing this fucking guy back he lied in an interview and also like his performance this season obviously there was a lot of issues with the team

across the board but it doesn't It does not command a lot of confidence. But at the end of the day, this is an owner in Jerry Jones who refuses to put up curtains when it's blinding all his players. He's stubborn. He's going to stick with this.

I bet they bring it back. Craig, if you're interviewing to be Jerry Jones's as Payne Sponge slash Head Coach Mike McCarthy. Pain Sponge. It is. His Space Funge succession? Yeah, his pain sham, wow.

Pain sham, wow. Would you bring up the curtains in the interview? Absolutely not. What are you talking about? You know how much I'd piss him off? That's the easiest way to get to not get the job is to call some old guy out about the curtains at his house. No, plan, the number one, like, item in my plan is to put up curtains. No, you can't question a stubborn old man for continuing to use a boombox and not Spotify. Oh, God. What do you think, Kivitz? They can keep McCarthy.

I think they keep them. I think they keep McCarthy because it's a very specific set of skills. It's like taken if it wasn't, none of the skills were cool that you need for the Cowboys to succeed. I also think Dak Prescott will go to war for Mike McCarthy and Dak Prescott will very personally intervene. Like at every chance, Dak Prescott has had any chance to throw him under the bus. He gets under the bus with Mike McCarthy at every turn. I think that actually means a lot. And also, again, you have, Mike McCarthy has a lot of what you need to be the pain sponge,

Tom Wombscans for Jerry Jones. And I actually think he stays. I do. And if he doesn't, cool, good for Conn's. content. Cool. Okay. So that's a lot of the coach

openings. There might be a few other surprises, but those are the obvious ones. I could believe Troy Aikvind mentioned whether the bears should trade for

Shannahan. On the money of football broadcast. I was like, that to me meant either two things. Either Troy Aikman has heard rumblings.

No, he was shooting from the hip. I was going to say, I kind of think that game sucked and he had had had a little too much

the train. I don't know. I don't know about that. But I do think that he was just like, fucking going for it and just riffing. Do you think, I feel like

Shannon with Caleb would be a bad combination. Do you like that marriage, potential marriage, if it did happen? I just feel like. I feel like Shannon doesn't like an improviser at quarterback. Yes, that's what I'm saying. He wants like a guy who's going to like.

But still, I mean like, yeah. You take it. It would be great for Caleb, I think, but. They want a Stafford where it's like someone who can improvise, but like all the bets are mostly going to be right. Not someone you have to teach. Like they can't, you know what I mean?

But also, I don't know. Look, I have been harder than Niners. Like, Craig, I know your take purchase, they missed the playoffs. I've been saying this would be the Niners' disaster season for months. The idea that they would get rid of Shanhan's crazy to me. Like, you ride it out. Like, you ride it out and like, you know, you prove me wrong. Like, the idea of giving up on it.

Also, what would he cost? Like, three first rounders, I think you would undo that if you could in a heartbeat. Like, Sean Payton went for a second. I think getting Shannon for three first, I would do that in two seconds, which is never a good sign for a deal. I think a lot of, I don't know. No, no. Email us if you're a Niners fan. A lot of Niners fans in my life,

if I told them they could get three firsts for Carl Shanahan. I think they would do it in a heartbeat. DK, DK. You're telling me if the Giants, if Schaefter tweeted right now that the Giants had acquired Kyle Shannon for three firsts, you think that would, that would be, you'd have to think about whether that was a good move for the Giants. I don't know. It just sounds like so much, you know,

and it's like you can just hire a guy for no firsts. I don't know. It's just like it's a weird. That's true. That's true. Trading for a, trading for a, trading for a, Trading for a coach always has felt weird to me. Like I still thought the Broncos trading for Payton was weird.

But I mean, obviously it's working for them. You give up your 25, 26, and 27 first to the Niners. Instantaneously. I would literally, I would instantaneously. I wouldn't even think about it. I wouldn't even think about it. I don't know. I actually don't know about that.

That's great. That's great. Belichick went for first and second. And like, that's the best trade problem in the history of sports. If someone was going to trade for McVey, though, like I could see that, you know. I think Shanahan's just so down. He's so downtrodden right now. Dude, I give up five first round picks to get Sean McVeigh, maybe six.

Five? That sounds like a joke. They gave up all their first and won the Super Bowl. He's 39, he's 38 years old. Yeah, I'm going to get 30 years of them. The fine line between McVeigh and Shanahan is so interesting because you're right, D.K., if somebody said to me three first for McVeigh, I think that's, I'm like, yeah, sure. That's a steal.

Because McVeigh feels like a blend of what we've been talking about. about this whole time, like the culture guys, the Vrables versus the Ben Johnson. McVey is like both. Dude. You know what I mean? McVeigh is like Kyle Shanahan's brain and like Dan Campbell, John Gruden's vibes. You know, like he is all of it in one. Well, that's the funny thing too with all this Belichick stuff and the coaching record

and the wins record where it's like, oh, like Belichick, you know, it's like, first all, I've never heard of this coaching wins record outside the context of Belichick cares about it. Who brings up how many coaches of the most regular season wins? But looking at the list is funny because Sean McVeigh is so. high on the list and he is still younger than when most of the people above him were hired. Like he's still like most of the people above him were not a head coach at the age. Sean McVe.

It's incredible. So I don't know. Again, I know we've done this, but if McVeigh doesn't retire, like if McVeigh coaches till 70, if he doesn't take any time off, I, it's, it's, I don't know. I feel like he's the most well-rounded coach. The idea that now he's doing clocks up well, timeouts well. Have you, have you guys like, Craig, you've obviously talked to him a bunch. Have you watched videos of McVeigh interacting with his players?

I was like blown away, especially like early on because he got hired when he was like, what, 34, 35? 31. 31 years old. That's wild. Maybe even 30. But like the way he talks to players and connects with players, he just command, like he's like, you know what I mean? Like the leader of men thing. It's such a cliche.

But it is so true. When you listen to him, he's just like, you're like, this is not a 31 year old man. I would follow this guy wherever he wants to go. I don't want to play for him. You know what I mean? People just have it. I went to his house to help, like, set up for the podcast. And he was just like the coolest guy in the world makes you feel, you know, they always say that.

Like, when you're talking to them, they make you feel like you're the only person in the world. And McVeigh has that quality. Even just like thanking me for producing the show after. Just the way that he is able to connect with you through a screen even is I was like, I will, I'll do anything for you. Let's play a game. Mike Tomlin has retired. He's just is retired. He's done.

Okay. Rams call the Steelers. Sean McVeigh is available. Yeah. My God, I want it so bad. I would do that so fast. Whatever you want. My organ.

My kidney, I got two. I know you're not allowed to act to lead to trade more than three first run picks. The offer on the table is five first round picks. Do you go to six? I think you do it. I think you do it. Like, coach, again.

The rule is you can only do three. Three is the max because, you know, they don't want to. How long is the contract? that we sign him too? A long time. Like eight, 10 years? Yeah.

I mean, but that's the thing, though, like generally speaking, he's going to be in. Like, that's the, he's on the phone, he's promising.

To be honest, it's funny how it switches when it's about my team. I would probably do that, yeah. Well, when I think of the Giants, I'm like,

ew, no, do that. I know. But it's like he's 38. He's 38 years old. I'd give up six. That's, I don't know. I just, again, I look at Sean Payton.

First and it was like, yeah, second, whatever first and second sounds like a lot. They have 90 million a dead cap. Most dead cap in the NFL. Like 40% of their budget is not on the team. They're going to make playoffs.

Coaches fucking are more important than anything. All right. No, you're right. You're right. I've come full circle. I just think it always sounds weird to me to trade picks for a coach. But I think, yeah, I'm with you. Also, you're buying the dip with Shanahan.

100%. That's the thing. Honestly, Giants, I would do three first and three seconds. And I would not think about it. I would not think about it. Like, get someone that I know is good. There's five coaches you know we're good. Dude, if the 49ers trade Kyle Shanahan,

it's going to be like such a situation where they're like, oh, God, I wish we'd never have done that. Within like a year. Name a price that you will look back on it. I mean, I guess Kyle Shanahan literally got the last pick of the NFL draft and made him fucking awesome. So maybe you don't need a first round ban. I guess.

Hello. Okay. Oh, man. He also picked, he also traded up for Tray Lance. Yeah. For the record. Well, yeah, we'll have a conversation with him about that. Remind, okay, so

reminder for everyone that this, it's the beginning of the offseason stuff. We're going to be looking at all these offseason teams and free agency coaches, all this stuff. Black Monday, after week 18, we're going to have fun with all the, we've some fun plans for that day when all these things actually go down.

We keep lit on that for now, but we have some fun stuff. And yeah, please stick with us for the draft show in the offseason. We're going to have a lot. It's going to be really, really, really fun offseason. So let's get to Fantasy Court right now. Yeah. Definitely don't tell anyone about this thing that you're doing. I don't really want to be handcuffed.

The definition of an object is a material thing that can be seen and touched. This court case now in session. This is from Ethan. Ethan. Ethan. To your highest court. What's up? I'm the commissioner of a 12-team league of college friends.

Okay. And it's a known bit for everyone in the league to team up against me. to the point where whoever's playing me each week is even known as America's team. Love that. I love that. So here's the situation. There are four teams left in the semifinals. I'm one of them.

I currently do not have a defense on my roster. I earned a first round by and I stashed an extra running back. So I'm adding a defense this week. There are 11 defenses on waivers. I'm the first place team, so I'm last in waiver priority. Oh, I see where this is going. The plan is to the entire league, including all eight eliminated teams, to add a defense. leaving me with nobody to play,

which is hilarious, but also feels super wrong. Objectively collusion. Objectively funny and objectively collusion. Right. Definitely, definitely collusion, definitely wrong,

definitely funny. As commissioner, I could lock the eliminated team's rosters, which is an implicit, but not explicit rule that teams with nothing to play for don't improve their team. Does the league have the right to box me out?

No. They have the right to. this is like a bit this is a bit and it's a longstanding thing i'm assuming i think i think he should have the right to lock the other rosters if they're all trying to fuck him over look if they're all trying to fuck you over use your power to fuck them over lock the roster there's no rule that says you can't do that just like there's no rule that says that they can't add every defense so if you know counter is my is my call like if they're going to make a move counter yeah there's that andy warhol quote that art is getting away with it right i think this is so

funny collusion that like they can get away with it. Like this is, I would like, that's really funny. I do think that the hymn getting us to read this email and that he could play this for them, I think he can get away with using his commission powers. If there's like legalized collusion happening in this, in this league, it's like kind of like that league we talked about where it's like there's no rules, the no rules legal. Anarchy league. Yeah.

Yeah. I just feel like the, the very obvious response to these people getting up on you is to use your commissioner powers for your own benefit. fit. Totally agree. Yeah. No one else has a fucking login. Lock their shit. Yeah. Lock their shit. If there's no honor in this league, lock their shit.

Drop Justin Jefferson from someone's team. Who cares? That's, hold that hostage. You know what? You should just do it just to show the power you have. And then put them back on the team and then just text that person. You don't know what I'm capable of. Yeah. If you're still thinking about picking up a defense, by the way. If you come at the king.

you best not miss right 100% oh man that's so good it's like the Matt Damon goodwill hunting you know how easy this shit is for me he's just like dropping everyone's player he's like I can do anything I'm god

okay email us a fantasy football ringer fantasy football at Gmail for uh more fantasy courts emails emails I have been trying to do this with you guys for two weeks and we kind of just I just kept putting it off but I'm going to shout out I'm not gonna lie, I don't remember who sent this to me. It was tweeted at us.

It's incredible. You know who you are. This is amazing. Someone sent us this thing from this Twitter account named Texas Football Life, who summarized the most obscure teams that every Big Ten school has played. And it was like, because all these teams have been playing for like 120 years. And it, or more than that. And so I would like to read to you a list of the most.

obscure basketball team every Big Ten school has played. Since when? This is 100 years. I'll give you the years. Okay. Ninety three, Illinois defeated the Illinois alumni. What? In an officially sanctioned game.

The Illinois fighting Elinai beat the Illinois alumni? Fighting alumni. Illinois. The Minnesota in 1897 beat the YMCA alphas. They literally played some... In 1897? 6 to 23. I thought it was a football game.

The YMCA. The YMCA. The YMCA Alphas is easily the coolest sports name I've ever heard. The YMCA's. The YMCAA Alphas. The Young Men's Christian Organizations or Associations Alphas. YMCAA. Were they all like 42 years old?

I don't know. I have so many questions about this. I can't even tell you. If anyone knows any stories, the background, any of these emails from your fantasy, Football, Gmail.com. Purdue, in 1921, basketball, 26 to 19, they beat the Chamber of Commerce.

They didn't have enough people back then, Craig. The Chamber of commerce. What? Well, so I think you're going to see it a moment. I think a lot of this was like a lot of sports leagues start. These are like local rec leagues. Yes. A lot of sports leagues started as an organization of like manufacturing.

That's a football started. It was manufacturing companies that had teams. And it was leagues of like, of manufacturing company. Like George Hallis, the Bears. It was like they were known as the Decatur Staley's because the company that employed the players is known as the Staley's. Anyway, keep going to. That is so funny.

Is it Decatur or Decatur? Oh, it's definitely Decatur. All right, add that to the list. The Decatur. Sorry, I've never been to Chicago. Indiana in 1921 lost 21 to 34 to the Heat and Light Company. Why are they just score so low? I guess the answer is they're playing the Heat and Light Company.

They're playing like a bunch of guys. No one invented the turnaround jump shots. These guys are probably playing in jeans. Lincoln, 1904, Nebraska beat Lincoln High School by 23. Rutgers in 1908 lost by 10 to the Albany, YMCA.

The YMCA is just fucking, yeah. They're like putting together some squads. Dude, these are so good. 1905, Iowa lost by 20 to the Iowa National Guard. I can't be the only one who thinks that if the troops put together a team. They dominate the NFL.

Especially, yeah, 1905. There's been like 10 movies about that plot. That's so funny. Northwestern in 1914 beat First National Bank. They beat some bankers. Those guys were playing in wool slacks.

UCLA in 1935 won 23 to 20 versus Universal Pictures. Dude, I love this. And wait, what year was that? 1935. Oh, my God. USC in 1939, won by 16 against Bank of America.

Wow. Washington in 1932, it just says 1.27.19 verse plumbers. Just says plumbers. Plumbers. Michigan once beat a team called the Spark Plugs. Michigan State beat the bank clerks. Bank clerks? Bank clerks.

It couldn't even get the bankers. No. And then this one, I couldn't believe. Oregon in 1943, one by five against the Harlem Globe Trouters. Oh. All right. Yeah.

So there's, I'm obsessed to these. I'm absolutely obsessed with these. If anyone has any context in these games, please email us at Ringer Fantasy Football at gmail.com. I love like local city sports rivalries. Like my dad was a cop and it was always like the police, Sim Harburt played the firefighters in football every year.

And it was like a big deal, you know? Oh, yeah. It's like Army Navy. Yeah, it's just like, they all have like their gear and he just like got superheeded. And they both sides, that the other sides were lame and it's just like that's just I love that stuff. It's just these built-in rivalries. It's so good.

It's like you guys are all in the same team. You're all like trying to save people. And then in reality, it's just like we fucking hate each other. Like if we play the athletic, how hard, like, how hard are we going? Those things are real. There are media leagues. Didn't the ringer used to play or like Grantland, the ESPN league? It sounds right. Yeah. Ringer drew league. There also, the ringer was in the YMCA league. Have I ever told the story of when I had to play for the ringer basketball team?

I heard it. But you should tell this on the podcast. 2017. Good question. Probably 2018 because I didn't have a real desk yet. So I Dan, where was I? I don't know. I think you're working for the impossible Kimmy Schmidt. Unbreakable. But I got hired in 2018 by the ringer. It was probably that spring. Right before. The impossible. What did I say? It's unbreakable. He said impossible.

Oh, I've never seen the show. It's fine. Oh, I was thinking of Kim, Impossible. Yeah, yeah. That's actually fair. That was like my first true old man. Who was voiced by Gretchen Wieners from Mean Girls, another Tina Faye property. And I just did the, she was in that Christmas movie, a Christmas quest that I watched

Shout at Judi Walker doing Bidjpice. There you go. Did you watch Hot Frosty? No. Which one's that? To be honest, is that where the hot, you have the really hot snowman?

It's like a hot blonde guy, I think. I don't know, actually. I don't know what I'm talking about. I just know it's a movie that. It's not blonde. He's Burnett. Next week I might hit you guys at Trees and a live.

Please stop calling that guy Brunette. The guy is a brunette. What is he supposed to be? Men are not brunette? You don't call men blonde or brunette. Is that what? What? It's just because it's not associated with men.

You just say he has brown hair? Yeah. I didn't know that. What? This is like a whole new girl bit. Like Schmidt keeps calling like a dude of brunette and a blonde. And Jake, what's his name? Jake Johnson.

I'm not going to know. Please stop fucking saying. So Val Kilmer's not a blonde. That's really funny. I'm not glad. Please stop calling information to me. Yes, D.K., it is the hot snowman.

That's a great concept. Hot blonde snowman. Can we do a poll where it's like, did you know you don't, you're not supposed to call men brunettes or blondes and just have like four answers? And it's like yes, no. And then it's like, yes, I'm over 40. Yes, I'm under funny. I don't know if it, I don't know if that's like a rule everyone knows.

I mean, if it's a new girl bit, then I, then. I'm not doubting you. I'm wondering if it's an age thing because I've never heard of this. And I definitely do it. New Girl. I just feel like my friends would have made fun of me for this by now if this was, if they had known this. I don't know how I would have escaped my whole life.

I have had multiple coverage. A good friend of mine is like kind of a, he has light brown hair and some people feel like he's blonde and some people think he's Burnett. So we've had plenty of arguments about that. Not once as anyone said, you could say he's blonde or Burnett. Not I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying it's like, very generally. That was a quote.

Very generally associated with women only, is my opinion. So it's, it's, it's, it's kind of not alpha. Maybe it's old in times people only think that, but. The people out there looking for strange. Right, right, exactly. People that say tight. We got a, we got a tweet about a JFK quote with the, with the term strange. D.C., did you see that?

Yes, yes. Hyvitz, did you see that? JFK himself was a womanizer and adulterer who once told a friend, I get a migraine headache if I don't get a strange piece of ass every. day. Was that real? Probably. I mean, based on, based on the stories.

Based on what we know. Yeah. Anyway, what were we saying? I don't know. We're talking about brunettes and blonde and brunette men. Oh, no, but we keep working back. Before that, before that, I was saying Ohio State lost by two in 1919 to Good Year tires. Okay.

Buzzard beater by Goodyear. Wow. I like the YMCAA alphas the most. Me too. These are YMCAA merch. I would watch a reality TV show that just featured like intramural leagues of companies facing. That's actually how D3 leagues should like make money as that college sports become super teams and the D3 teams get left behind. They should play local rec teams and fucking destroy them to just explain how good they are at sports to get some respect.

They should just destroy teams. Yeah. I would love to watch a reality. show where I'm like in a, I like live in a house with like a pizza restaurant, a bunch of workers who work in a pizza restaurant. And like every week they got to play like the guys who work in a Abercrombie and Fitch. Like that sounds great. That's the other thing.

You remind me. Email us to ring your fantasy football at gmail.com for other weird rivalries. Like firefighters, cops is a good example. Email us ones we wouldn't think of that you have experienced with. Like weird rivalries that we would never have thought of. The Steader's Union versus the Teamsters. I don't know. Just throwing it out there.

Well, that was, yeah. Who is versus the Teamsters? The Stevedores? Is that even? I don't even know if that's how you see. Sounds like a good example. Longshoremen. Doc workers versus truck drivers?

Yeah, that's a good example. That's a great, yeah, sure. Teamsters was always just a word I heard around Jimmy Hoffa. Didn't realize it was like a truck driver thing until very recently. It's a truck driver thing, but it goes back to when they were driving teams of horses. Goes all the way back to the teams that the drivers would drive, which is cool. I don't know. I don't think I ever knew that's where the turn.

term came from. Well, I'm not 100% sure that is. Did they even say that in the Irishman? I feel like they didn't. Yeah, well, no, if you look at the Teamsters, it's going to get some strange. If you look at the Teamsters logo, there's horses on it. I don't know why a strange term sounds way worse than I guess it is in my head. Why are you guys so hung up on that?

It sounds so inappropriate to me, but I guess it's not. Well, it's definitely inappropriate. It's like, you know, I don't know, misogynistic. That one's been reclaimed by the Joker for our generation. Like, frankly. also it's weird coming from Jimmy Hoffa who's famously a brunette you know what I mean I know a beautiful brunette

you know why here's my take I'm I'm gonna plant my flag what's going on here men of our age don't call women by their hair color I think that like there was I know it is kind of I think it is kind of an archaic thing yeah I think blonde jokes were a thing when we were younger like early internet 2000s it was like there were a lot of blonde jokes but like I don't

using brunette as a noun I feel like is very outdated right somebody's like look at that brunette over there. Yeah. Yeah. See? Yeah.

Look at that tall drink of water over there with the brunette hair. Well, that bird over there. That same. All right.

Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Craig. Thank you. Thank you. Kyle. Thank you, Olivia.

Thank you, awesome. Thank you for listening. Email so we're going to fancy football at gm.com. If anyone can tell us about these weird ass college games and funny stories.

Anyone can tell me about the Purdue versus Chamber of Commerce game. The YMCAA Alphas. Oh my God. Give us some merch.

Email us about weird rivalries. You don't know. YMCA Alpha merch would be something. Let's do that. Thank you, Lord. Lord. Thank you, Steve Miller Band. Sure.

The Joker. Is that why? Dun, don't know. Is that in the Joker? No, he has a song called the Joker. That's probably what it incpted me, yeah. Oh, okay. Some people call me the Space Cowboy.

You know that song, Hyphitz. I don't know. Oh, Space Cowboys. Is that him? Love. You know the song The Joker by Steve Miliband for sure. the joke wow doesn't know the

Steve Miller band I love her Steve Miller band he's got uh oh no who's who's got the boring

oh he's got Ronald Jones disease it's like Steve Miller I'm like okay but Steve Miller man a thousand times yeah yeah yeah Steve Miller is very generic

some people call me the space cowboy you if you don't know this song we'll have to do one second song challenge next week and I will let me pull it up

let me pull it up I keep typing in different versions of Steve from like people I know named Steve. I just went over for a time. I was like Steve Jones. You know that I'm a joker. I'm a smoker. I'm a mid-a-toker.

Yeah. Wait, you're telling you that song 60 years old? What? That's a 60-year-old song? 50, 50 years old. It's cool. It's like 70s? Steve Miller.

73. Wow. I'm not going to lie. I just assume that was like a late 80s, like early 90s song. I think in my head that was like Weezer. I don't know who that's going to make angry, but in my head I definitely just had that in the Weasr bucket. It has Weezer energy, I suppose.

But it's, yeah, it's 1973. There are certain, there is certain music that sounds like 20 years ahead of where it was. And you listen back to it and you're like, yeah, would fit in like way later. When I heard that song Murder on the Dance Floor, yes. I had no idea that song was from 2001. That sounded like a brand new song. That's a perfect, that's exactly what I'm going. You know what?

Emos ringerfincy football at gmail.com for songs that sound like 20 years ahead. I was like, this song's great. Who came out with that? Yeah. Like this song's from 23 years ago.

Yeah. Holy shit. That's how I feel like. We landed on the moon. Sophie something Baxter. I was like I don't even know who that is. That's how I feel about Yeezus. Like Yeezus and also like 808's and heartbreak,

but like the Yeas album particular, like it sounds, you can put it out now and it would sound like normal. It's like there's just a lot of music like that. Wow. But then there's songs where you're like, oh, this is clearly old. Like, Stranger Things when they played the Kate Bush song. Like running up that hill, you're like, this is so...

Or like... What's the other movie? Fuck, Andy Sandberg, the Time One where they're trapped. It's really good. Oh, Palm Springs. Yeah, the music in that one's very perfect, like 80s. Yeah, that's a good movie. I like that movie.

That's like a rewatchable one for me. I like that movie. Hey. I like that laugh. All right. Goodbye, everyone. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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