The Ringer NFL Show - Power Ranking the Fantasy MVPs (So Far)

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Power hour! Awarding and ranking the most valuable fantasy players of the year heading into Week 13, including a heated debate about Tank Dell, a Kyren Williams snub, the better B. Robinson, a couple of Dolphins, the ‘Madden’ cover athlete, and much more (7:13). “You guys want to do some emails?” (55:10) Check out The Ringer’s Fantasy Football Rankings for positional rankings, waiver wire pickups, and much more! Tier 2 WRs (15:00) Hint: Heifetz was very wrong about him (18:43) He’s the TE1, and no, his name isn’t Travis Kelce (22:25) If you dropped him mid-season, we’re so sorry (26:32) He’s the B. Robinson we deserve, but not the one we need right now (31:12) Thank goodness the ‘Madden’ curse doesn’t extend to fantasy production (35:56) This old guy still has juice (36:56) He’s literally on pace to have 2,000-plus receiving yards (39:18) Run-CMC (41:26) The one positive takeaway from the Chargers’ season (44:26) Our no. 1 MVP (49:11) Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens and Jack Sanders Producer: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And so if you want to get to the revelation, stick around for the end of the episode. Welcome to the Ring of Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Heifitz and I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig World Black and today it is power hour. Every Wednesday during the season, we are power ranking something. And today we were power ranking the fantasy football MVP of the 2023 season.

So far. So far. Yeah. It's, well, at the NFL, they do the MVPs at the end of the regular season, and we're about their fantasy. So it's like, I don't know. It's like two thirds of the way. Who would the MVP be so far?

It's like important to capture this moment in time. Yeah, because there's still time. Have you guys seen the Simpsons movie? Do you remember that joke when Bart is like, man, this is the worst day of my life. And then Homer's like, worst day of your life so far. Because things could change, you know? Last year, what? Cam Acres, Rashon Penny, finished the year?

super strong. It's what it's been with me being a Giants fan. I thought Eli Manning he bench was the worst day of my life. That was like the best that's happened seven years. It can always get worse, Hyfitz. Don't worry. Especially with the Giants. So we're going to go through with the fantasy MVP's, but first, a little bit of news here. So Jonathan Taylor has the thumb injury. Colts running back. Look, for waiver purposes, it's Wednesday you're seeing this. Zach Moss has probably probably in case Zach Moss is there. But Zach Moss is probably either already rostered been taken by now. Hopefully you went out and got them. It's happened after we put our waivers show up.

Or hopefully you held on to him like I did. Even when Jonathan Taylor came back, he's been stashed on my, on my roster for weeks. Glorious day over here at the Horalbet camp. How can I make money off this injury? Honestly, when it's a thumb, it's a thumb.

I don't feel bad. Okay, I was going to say, while we're here. I mean, just being... We're being honest. So Jim Mersey, who's the owner of the Colts, told the athletic that Jonathan Taylor

is getting surgery tomorrow. Tomorrow's Wednesday. So if you're listening... So why is he telling people this? He just does that. I don't know. It's like every of the team... He likes to be in the news, I think.

I don't think he's got anything else going on. Like, you know, his dad just... His whale died. Yeah. Yeah, that's literally his little pet project was a killer whale pet. That was his other thing. He's got nothing happening, you know? Yeah.

So he's just out here explaining the Jonathan Taylor injury news. And he's like, yeah, two, three weeks, but they're going to go into the surgery. We'll see maybe put him on injured reserve after that. So there were three things I thought after this. And I'm not like intrusive thoughts. I'm not saying this is good. It's just not saying it's right. it's just what happened.

Which my thoughts were, that sucks for people with Jonathan Taylor. Amazing for people like Craig who held on to Zach Moss. And also, thumb? Really?

It's really gonna keep you out? Take that thing up. Players have done that in the past. I mean, D. Lyman play with club hands. Just carry it in the other hand. You have to grip the football. You would get stripped easier,

I would imagine. I guess like any other finger, but it's, you know, the thumb is to hold stuff. And so, And you have to hold it in both. So I don't know.

I mean, it's, I get why you can't hold a football at a thumb, but I have to admit, it's kind of like the hand version of turf toe. Well, even the photo that Ian Rappapaport tweeted of Jonathan Taylor, like stretching his arm to score touchdown. If his thumb didn't work, he would have fumbled that ball in that photo. So I do get it. Yeah. This thumb thing reminds me of how every year it seems like injuries are a little bit contagious with very specific things.

Like this year, it's the thumb. Last year, the year before it was mallet finger. because we got Justin Fields, Matt Stafford. Oh, yeah, the Achilles with old quarterbacks. But we have Matt Stafford. And then who else had the thumb injury? Justin Fields and now Zach Moss, I feel like there's others. But it's weird how like these injuries seem to like be very contagious.

Yeah, mallet finger, like the trench foot, you know, he had the name to it. Like this one, we'll see if we get some kind of like catchy thing for the thumb. But yeah, Zach Moss, we're talking about MVP's later in the show. And are we just going to remember this season? DK. going back is like, yep. If you had Zach Mosh, you won. Honestly, like, he's, I was workshopping a take and I never went public with it and I'm not, and I'm walking it back now.

But like, is Zach Mosh just better than Jonathan Taylor? Zach Moss is good. Let's just say that. Let's just say that. I mean, when he started playing, he literally the best five, like the best five games of Zach Moss's career are literally the five games he played instead of or with Jonathan Taylor to start the year. Like he, the only players, even when the, if you count when Jonathan Taylor is out,

but also when Jonathan Taylor came back, the two games he was. these shared touches. Zach Moss, the only players have more fantasy points in that stretch were Christian McCaffrey, Rahim Moster,

and Devanii Chan. That's literally it. It's funny. We always do this. There's always the backup that outperforms the starter, right? So it's like this year,

it's, Zach Moss, but this was what happened with Alexander Madison last year, Tony Pollard. And then so it's like maybe if next year

Zach Moss gets a contract on like the Cardinals and is the main guy, he would stink. But in the backup role, he's amazing. You could also argue it's the exact opposite

in that the running backs are exactly what we've always said, which is they're, in real life, mostly completely interchangeable, minus here or there. It's not a coincidence. Zach Moore stood nothing on the bills. The bills flipped him for Naheem Hines,

who's like a pass catching running back that they desperately wanted. No one on the bills can run still. Like James Cook, like none of these guys are making huge impact as a runner. And then any running back to Colts plugin works.

It's like at some point, maybe it's the freaking teams in the schemes. Yeah, there might be something there. I do think Moss is good, though. He's like pretty, he's really good in the passing game. He breaks a lot of tackles. He's hard to break down.

He's reliable. Were you going to say athletic and then realize that it might berate you if I said that? No, I think if anything, he's slow. That was like four of issues that he had coming out of slow 40 time, I think. Utah. Yeah. Could you have outrun him back in your day? Oh, easily.

Hell yeah. I mean, this guy, he would truck me, but he's slow. This is the best new bit, by the way. Every fantasy football, in football in general, but especially fantasy, they're like, oh, we're not as good athletes as these guys. And we're like, actually, we're faster than like half these dudes. Actually, slow is relative. I think he ran like a five or a four five.

Four, six, five. You're right on his heels. That's really solid. But anyways, yeah, I've liked him ever since he was in college. I think the big thing was he didn't run a very fast 40 time. He had some injuries, but the guy is good. He's a good player, and they're going to utilize him a lot. That's like why he was so valuable in fantasy early in the season.

He was getting like 80, 90% of everything in their backfield. And, you know, with Jonathan Taylor potentially out for up to, you know, two, three, four, maybe even longer weeks. This is huge down the stretch for fantasy. So it's good for me, Craig, too, because I have him on, like, almost every one of my teams because he was basically free in the offseason. So you just stash him. And good things happen.

We're going to power rank MVP candidates. DeK and Craig sent me their MVP, fantasy MVP candidates. I asked them to kind of tier the guys for their purposes. I then have ranked them. This is my list. I just took their thoughts into account, but I have completely made the list. So anything you want to complain about directed at me. Having said that, it's a perfect list.

So there's nothing to complain about. We're going to do this. We'll see. And we're also going to count down. We usually count one that we're going to go count down. So we're going to do the MVP last. We're going to do this power hour style. If you're not familiar with power hour, it's very simple.

After two minutes, you're going to hear this sound. Great song. Love that song. People demanded Tom Tom, Tom back. Kai was kind of, you know, he messed around. He was cavalier with all the sound effects for a little while there. Exactly. A little big for his britches, Kai.

Right. So without further ado. We're going to power rank the MVP, so the fantasy season in reverse order. But first, I want to the honorable mentions here. So first up, last up, I don't know. But the honorable mentions for the MVP, so people didn't quite crack the top 10 here. All the waiver wire MVP's, like specifically the Rams and Texans guys who added off the waiver wire. That's Kyran Williams for the Rams, the running back.

That's Pukkah, receiver for the Rams. That's Tank Dell, the receiver for the Texans. And CJ Stroud, the quarterback for the Texans. if real life offensive rookie of the year I think C.J. Stroud, Tank Dell and Pooka de Kour like one, two, three. Kyron Williams has been a revelation, but Craig's looking at me like I'm a crazy person for not having these guys top ten.

Tank Dell not being on the actual power ranking list is ridiculous. It's not. It's not. And here's like, it's very simple why. He has been great for a month, but that's all he's played for you. And what I'm, I am, like, these guys have all been fantastic. I'm not going to argue that. What I'm saying is, if a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound? And if Tank Dell is like 146 yards. and two touchdowns and 99% of people

didn't play him. Did he help anybody? My answer for this exercise is no. Okay, I kind of get that, but like people have probably been playing him since week four or five. He's the wide receiver 10 on the year. He's the 10th of that wide receiver in fantasy.

He was drafted 228th overall. He's the second guy drafted named Tank in the NFL and he's a top 10 receiver in football. He's one of the most important receivers in fantasy. Yes, now. And Craig, everything you just said is how I

went through this in my first draft. And then I dug in. And I, what's on Yahoo, you can actually click back over the weeks. And you can see the percentage of people who started each player. Tank Dell wasn't actually started in more than half of the leagues until like four weeks ago. And that to me is

like a big deal because like he really was like floating under like 20% of leagues, 25. And at that point, like, But does that make him less valuable? I mean, or does that make him more valuable? Like, I don't care how many people are starting him. The prompt is how valuable is a player if they're on your team and if you're playing them. All right, this is a whole other thing.

So we can argue about value forever because it's like, in real life, you're like, oh, most valuable, what does that mean? And then you get pigeonholed. And in fairly- Because look, Pook and Nakua, I get him being an honorable mention because his best four weeks were the first four weeks of the season, when you probably only, you probably added him, then waited a week, then finally started him. And then he kind of started to drop off.

So his best weeks are the first four weeks. Tank's best four weeks are the most recent four weeks of the season. He's got five touchdowns the last four weeks. I'm very passionate about Tankdale being on the... I feel that. It's simple to have the car... To start with Devani Chan. 14 kickers were taken ahead of Tank Dell.

That's fair. But here's what I'm saying. A. Chan's a simpler example. Devani Chan had 40... He played two games. That's my point. He had 49 points in week three. 95% of people did not start Devon A. Chan in week three.

So what you got actually out of Devon A Chan once you added him are once he started being played in like half leagues, three games. He had two games through the 20s. That was great. 20 something points, two weeks in a row. And you probably played him this week. He had one point. Okay, that's not a fantasy MVP, right? And I will say as he went through, I went to the Ringer League, which is on Yahoo.

DK was one of the few people who played Tank Dell when there was like 6% of people played Tank Dell. And he was in the group. Hell yeah. You're the MVP, DK. Which is kind of funny. I was an early adopter of Tank Dell. I have him on a couple of teams. By the way, my team, my rear team is good.

I'm in like second place. The nine guys ahead of Tank Dell are all going to make the Hall of Fame. He's a rookie. He weighs 155 pounds. He's incredible. He didn't do anything. But listen, he had five points in week one. No one played him.

Week two, the only person on Earth who played Tank Dell was basically, or DK didn't even week two. Only person on Earth who played Tank Dell in week three was DK. No one played Tank Dell in the first three weeks of the season. So then he had three points, seven points. Zero didn't play. Then he went on by. Those were the first seven points.

He didn't do anything for anyone in the first seven weeks. the season. Comes back off by his five points, right? Then he is 27. After week nine, everyone has been playing him. He's at 16, 25, 15. So I'm saying tank, that was incredible. Having said that, he's basically delivered you three to four games total. I think I side with Typhins here. I think he's been a great pickup, but not an MVP. And to be clear, that doesn't mean going forward. He couldn't be eventually a league winning player. Like, I'm not ruling that out. I'm saying at this point, we're almost 13 weeks in here. He's probably played for you three years. times. I think that's crazy talk. For half the year, he's been like the best player on your team.

If anything, I think there's a stronger argument for Kyron Williams because Kyron when he's on this list too. You can argue he's a stronger argument for Kyron. He's the same logic with Kyron Williams just because he was out for so long. But at least that, you're like, well, when he's played for you, he's been incredible and when he didn't, like he was hurt, so you had a replacement. So that I actually think is better. Right. He's the second best running back in fantasy at a points per game basis. Counts for games. 20 points a game. He won't the RB 10 overall And he's only played seven games

If we were going forward First of all I would actually I was thinking about this I don't know if there's ever been A crazier ratio Of a league winning potential entering the fantasy playoffs

Versus fame Than Kairn Williams I don't do you guys know What Kiron Williams like You saw him in his face Like if you saw him in 7-11 Would you know I would never recognize Kiren Williams

And that's about it Yeah Like I don't know if he's one of the 20 most famous people on the Los Angeles Rams he's like basically off he's off brand Todd Gurley when it comes to fantasy like yeah no one knows what he looks like no one really knows about him but he's putting in the same kind of volume and squaring the same type of points it's pretty incredible he's Christian McCaffrey in like in the sheets but on the streets he's not one of the most one thousand recognizable faces the league

another guy that was just kind of slow and that's why he fell he's he's he's small and so therefore he's not good kairn you can argue but with this whole MVP thing I lean toward people who have, you know, I was like, you need to have played, you know, five games. That seems important for an MVP. That's all. Haifitz really put in a lot of thought, I think, is the bottom line here. He definitely, you know, did his homework. I respect that, even though I think Kyron Williams deserved to be on this list, but that's okay. That's fair. I agree. He might be the single most important player in fantasy for the next five weeks. I think that's fair. Going forward, look, look, there's a chance

we look back at this year in fantasy football and think, yeah, that was all cool. A couple things mattered also. If you had Zach Moss or Kyron Williams in the beginning and end of the year, those all that matter. Like, that's totally possible. Yeah. But we're going to do the thing where everyone's like, Proble or old pro russes. This guy should have been in it. You got to pull someone off the list. NBA is Presumannup and All-Star. So you guys are going to have to pull someone off the MVP list. You can't just add someone to a top 10. That's an 11. I'm going to pull number 10 off. Yes.

I can see if you. I'm happy to pull a few. The, uh, Kai, well, I didn't expect the honorable mentions to need a clock, but Kai, it's still honorable mentions here. I don't know how to rank 13, 12, 11. I don't know if you guys wanted top 13 or whatever. But the other honorable mention is, because I wasn't sure. But I lumped them all together. I just have like all the tier two receivers from the preseason. A.G. Brown for the Eagles.

Amon Rae St. Brown for the Lions, Cidley Lamb for the Cowboys. These were like the back end of the first round, early second round receivers. They all have delivered and more on top of what we wanted them to be. They all have set a very weird record of some kind that very specific, like too specific. Enough that like A.J. Brown has the six games in a row for 125 yards, which had never been done. Ced Lam is the first receiver. Stephen Nuffles Street, have three straight games at 10 catches and 150 yards. All right, that's kind of annoying.

It's like, Amonra St. Brown has 16 PPR points in each of his first 10 games this season, which has only been done by four other people, but it's Jerry Rice, Devante, and Michael Thomas. And then I know at some point that kind of sounds like the lions have never lost at a waxing libis moon or something, but they all have been fantastic. I'm fully prepared to not actually talk about the players and just argue at why you ranked certain people where for the next 30. minutes. Because here's my point here.

Here's my point. If you have a Monroe, St. Brown and Tank Dell in your fantasy team, and you talk to that person and say, like, how was your fantasy season? The first person they bring up is Tankdale. It's not going to be a Monroe St. Brown. This is a... Tank Dell. But, okay.

Change my season. If that, well, this is, this answers it to me right now. If that, I agree with you, it's like cool. It's like found money, right? It's like, you know, you expect them on Rod to be good, not tanked out. If that person's played Tank Dell three times and it was the last three weeks and tank D. In those three weeks went 16 points, 25, 15.

And then there's Amon Ra. Who is more valuable to the team? First of all, I don't love that you're just assuming that people only played him for three weeks. Dude, I checked, you could go through the percentages. It's not an assumption. It's like you can see the numbers. But my point is that if people play, like the people who do play him, he is the most value, he is more valuable right now because it's, it's, it's, it's the return you're getting

on him. What Amon Ra was like the seventh wide receiver drafted? and now he's the fifth. It's like, yeah, he's exactly what you thought he would be. I don't know if that makes him the most valuable on your team. What was that two minutes for? I don't even know. It was for 11, 12, and 13.

This is better. This is going to argue. We're just going to do Tank Dell versus this person for the rest of the show. What are we doing here? I'm on a say Brad's good every year. And he just had another good year and he's above Tank Dell. And Kyron Williams? Let's get into the list and let's do this during the list.

Kyron Williams is like the best player in fantasy football. He's not even on this list. the week that tanked L, his best game of the season, week nine, which is like late, right? Week nine, he was started in 18% of Yahoo Leagues. Yeah, those people are, he's the MVP to those people. But in a way, then we don't disagree at all. Because if you're going with like the people who played them who's their MVP,

then yeah, of course. But I'm just saying, but like the overwhelming majority of people did not. So, you think my take for this is if he's the MVP and he didn't really start doing anything until week nine, like you could be in last place and have Tinktel. Well, that's not very value. It didn't start until week night. I mean, he had a huge week two and three,

but he just wasn't probably on a lot of people's roster. Not everyone has to be the MVP. It's like, when did Pedy come through and like, you know, remember the type? He's trying to give everyone to the season. I just can't believe he's not top 13. That's all.

He's the waiver wire out of the year. But like, that's not an MVP. Anyway, we keep going on. I'd quibble about that also. That's fine. All right. What's your quibble? Karen Williams was.

Oh, yeah, fine. Yes. No, I actually, I think Craig's argument applies to Kyron Williams much better. Yeah. I think Kyron was like sixth on my list, to be honest. I think that MVP. That one's fair. But again, he said four good games.

And, but by the end of the season, he might be number one just because he might deliver you a championship. But we'll see. All right. Number 10, I have Adam Thielen. Start the clock. Receiver for the Panthers. There were two players who was extremely wrong about this year.

I think Thelan's like number one. I thought Thelan was done. And to my, he's just not, or at least not as done as I thought. I mean, most people started probably playing Thielen around week three. And since week three, Adam Thieland is the 11th best receiver in fantasy football. Like, he was drafted on average 138th. And he's a top 11 receiver 53 for ADP, which is wild. Adam Thielen's counting numbers is essentially identical to Travis Kelsey.

Yeah, take the names out and just put like the numbers in there. That's pretty crazy. I mean, he was drafted around guys like Alan Lazzard, Quentin Johnston, sorry Kai. Alan Lazzar's a healthy scratch. Bigsby, Colcomet. Colquette's actually been pretty good. The bad type. Tyler Higby, the name, like, I like to look at the names that are around these guys in

ADP in terms of like, just trying to put myself back in that time when I was drafting teams. I'm like, man, how did Thielen go this low? It's pretty crazy. But, I mean, he did really look really slow last year. Like, it looked like he'd lost this step. High Fitz you cited this several times in the preseason. I think it was valid is, like, when he was on the field for the Vikings last year, their offense was like way, way worse.

It was, you know, he was like almost drag. them down. But it's probably injury related, which is, you know, kind of always the thing in football. You have to keep in mind. There are two kinds of, like, being wrong. There's being wrong in a way that's an acceptable part of a good process. And then there's being, like, wrong, wrong.

Honestly, I put Thielen in the bucket of, like, I can live with it. Because it's like, the Panthers offense is 30th in passing yards. They fired their coach. The quarterback's a disaster. They're dead last in yards per throw. Like, Bryce Young's a mess. And, like, the whole thing was Adam Thielen was on the Vikings last year. They were what?

Third in points, fourth and touchdown passes, six in. passing yards, goes to Carolina, 30th in passing yards. Fantastic. And he's like on 50, 60% more fantasy points per game than last show. I'm like, damn, all right. Yeah, it's crazy. Talk about like, he's truly the last person anybody saw coming to have a great year. Can I, I'm, this is my last Tank Dell thing and then we'll be done. Craig won't let this go. So you said people probably didn't start playing Thielen until week three. From week three till now, Tank Dell has outscored Adam Thielen in one less game. I get what you're...

All right. Now, Dika, do you hear what I'm saying? We're like, we don't disagree. Adam Thiele has basically, since week three had three good games. And since their week seven by, he hasn't had more than 11 points. I'm being utilitarian in that, like, I'm trying, I am, when I say MVP, I'm measuring impact on the most people. But if you are saying, if you had played this person the whole time,

There is no doubt what you're saying about Tank Dell. What I'm saying... I'm just saying, dude, people probably started Adam Thielen for the last five weeks and they've been disappointed for five straight weeks. That is a fair argument. But here's the thing. I was looking at it. And I originally had Adam Thielen at his honorable mention and Take Dell in the top

10. And then I looked at this. Oh, my God. What a shaft. I personally would have put Amun Ra, C.D. and A.J. Brown over Thielen. Just because I think the highs have outweighed, like, what Thielen has brought individually to your team. I had that, too.

but then it's like he went 120 picks later, and so I flipped them. Yeah, to me, it's like, Amon Ross, CD and A.J. Brown, this is what you get. I mean, this is what you pay for. I agree, D.K., but like, again, you're right, Craig, that he's falling off. But the first, like, seven weeks,

Thielen was, like, neck and neck with them. And then they all kind of pulled away. But I'm like, the fact that it was even that close is kind of crazy. Anyway, that's it. That's it. I'm over. It's done now. I'm not doing the tank-dell thing anymore.

No, we're going to keep doing it. You got to pull someone off. Let me know who you're going to pull off. Next person I have is T.J. Hawkinson, tight-in for the Vikings. So the Adam Thielin being wrong about Thieling this season, I can live with that. I'm like, all right, I wasn't going to just put my money on the aging veteran free agent on this terrible team. Hawkinson was just wrong, wrong. I mean, Hawkinson is the number one tight end on the year in total points.

He's the number two to Kelsey in points per game. He's, T. T. Chachin's only like 25 half PPR points behind a Monro of St. Brown, who obviously, obviously, that's wild. Receiver has like a much higher floor to be a player than Tide end, which is like a wasteland. And similar to Omanra, Hawkinson hasn't had like a huge 40-point week, but Hawkins has just been solid every single game.

He's just floating your team week in and week out. But this is what we talked about last year was like when he came to the Vikings halfway through the season, he basically was Travis Kelsey. And so that's why a lot of, when we talked about him at the start of this year, we're like, look, man, I mean, yeah, I know they got like Jordan Addison and stuff,

but we kind of already saw what he can do. And I don't know why we think he wouldn't be able to do that again. and he has with Kirk and Josh Dobbs. I think what's weird is that the reason I didn't like Hawkinson as much was correct, which was I thought Jordan Addison would be a really good value where he was. And Jordan Addison has seven touchdowns this season, you know, in 11 games, which is pretty great for a rookie. And I just thought that Hawkinson's getting that work.

And so I don't know. It's weird because maybe part of it's Justin Jefferson going away has allowed Addison and Hawkinson to thrive together. And maybe it would have been different otherwise. But I think the other thing is crazy is Kirk Cousin's getting hurt. Hawkinson's actually actually slightly better. Yeah, Dobbs likes to throw to tight ends.

Craig pointed this out three years ago. Sometimes we panic too much when bad quarterbacks come in for fantasy. But in reality, what makes a good quarterback good is the ability to go to a third, fourth, fifth read, like Herbert Ken. Bad quarterbacks go one read, two read, bail.

And Josh Dobbs, so T.J. Hawkinson's target share has, like, gone up 50% from Kirk to Dobbs. The quality of the targets has come down, but he's getting, he went from 20% to 30% target share. And I think that's, I mean, there's probably a direct correlation also with Justin Jefferson going out and that happening. Jefferson left week five and right around week five, six is when Hawkinson started to take off. Totally.

So it's been a nice confluence of events. For some context, just on how good Hawkinson has been, he's 10th among all players in targets this year. There's 108 targets. That's exactly what you want at the tight end position in particular because there's so many guys that are just, you know, very like, you know, average or just like really low ceiling type players at the titan position. position, Hockinson gives you that upside week in and week out just like based on volume alone. He has 10 tight end one weeks. In other words, he's top 12 tight end 10 times and no other tight end has eight. Again, though, should we quibble here?

I mean, like he was drafted as the tight end three and he's not and he's the tight end two right now. That part of I'm totally open to quibble on like the where they went versus what they delivered. I think I value ADP, I think a lot more in this ranking. No, I'm fine to quibble with that. thing I'm not budging on is I for these rankings I am doing the like were they being in your roster like were they playing or not like I think I need a real world impact here it's like but I agree that if you want to bump Hawkinson out because you're like oh well this is what you paid for then I then whatever I get that yeah I kind of I'm have two minds with that though

because like he's in your lineup and he's scoring a lot of points like yeah valuable you know what I mean like get down to brass tax like this guy is winning me weeks but he's in everybody like everybody who you know the top 70 guys they start all year and everybody's lineups. So it's like, yeah, if you drafted him, he's been really good. To me, it's like those diamonds in the rough that you find. And those are the water cooler guys, where you're like, oh, my God. Yeah, everybody who has T.J. Hawkinson started T.J. Hawkinson. But it's like, oh, I found Kyron Williams this year. And he changed my team. He took me to the next level. I agree. You're right, Craig. And there is an additive value to finding something. But also,

the Craig that I knew. Yeah. Would have really, really valued not having to dredge through the morass and muck of the tight end streaming wasteland. I agree. I love Hawk. I was big on him this year. Sorry, Tom, Tom. I feel like I've been very disrespectful. Sorry, Tom. Sorry, Thomas. This is the most fired up Craig's ever been.

Yeah, it's true. The next one, this one, we've Dak Prescott, quarterback for the Cowboys. I like this one. This one I was also torn on because in the oldest league I'm in fantasy football. Someone cut Dak Prescott after week five. Dak Prescott says now the quarterback three on the season. He was not the quarterback three when they cut him. He's basically been like the best quarterbacker top two since.

Week 6. Bill Barnarly's tweet, Dak Prescott has an 80 QB, East Spins total quarterback rating since week six. Nobody else is over 68. It's out of 100. So, Dak Prescott's 12 points above every other quarterback in the NFL. It's weird because he wasn't, he was totally average DAC was,

and then just has been absolutely elite for like six weeks ago. I think, yeah, this is, to me, the DAC thing is, you know, you have to talk about, like, I think MVP and league winner are not necessarily the same thing. But like Dacti has the feel of a league winner because he is, if he's been in your lineup over the last six weeks, like it's been hard for you to lose because he's scoring just an insane amount of points. Over the last six week, he's been the QB1, the QB3, the QB2, the QB1, the QB15, and then the QB3. So he has like one average week or like slightly off.

And that's because they were winning by too much. Right. And they killed the Panthers. So he has averaged 27, so almost 28 points per game in that stretch, 28 points per game. That's crazy. The median quarterback won. So like the top 12 quarterbacks, the median guy is averaging around 19 points in that same stretch. And so he gives you like two extra passing touchdowns according to most standard scoring.

It's like if you taped Tyler Boyd to Sam Howell and put him in your quarterback line. It's crazy the advantage he's given you over the last six weeks. And obviously, you know, the last six weeks are when you're really making your run. you've kind of been able to figure out other spots in your lineup and all that. And to me, it's like, you know, MVP, maybe not technically because he was not very good at the beginning of the year, but like league winner, I kind of see him as that. Also, if you look at his, I mean, last year, he led the league in interceptions. And that was a point of emphasis for him this year. And this year, he has six interceptions and he has the best touchdown interception ratio in the league.

The other thing I want to point out real quick about him is, and this speaks to sort of Craig's idea of like finding hidden gems. If you look around the guys that were drafted, if you look at the guys that were drafted around him, rather, it's guys like Deshaun Watson, Jehan Dotson, Pat Friermuth, Jerry Judy, George Pickens, Hollywood Brown, Khalil Herbert, A.J. Dillon. These are absolute, just like either bad players or guys that you've dropped or roster cloggers.

Like, they're not useful players. And DAC is just kind of sandwiched in there. Can I take that even a step further, D.K.? Huge amount of value. Yeah. Since week six, you mentioned DAC having 27 points. It's actually, I think, almost 28. points per game for Dax since week six.

The quarterback's straight, taking like 50 spots ahead of him. Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, since week six. They're all averaging like 18 points per game. Dax got nine more than that. So that's on top, that's like 50% more than like Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, Lamar. I just, yeah. I think about like the difference between him and Lamar in particular. Lamar's just, he's been good in real life, not good in fantasy.

And it's just like, it's just devastating for your fantasy team to like be excited about Lamar, and then he just goes out and scores like 12 points, you know. Dak is out here scoring 30 points and just lighten it up. You can't really sell high now because the trade deadline's over, but do you guys think a little bit of this is that they've played the Rams, the Giants, the Panthers, the commanders, and the Eagles in the stretch and the Chargers. But now they have Seattle, Philly, Buffalo, Miami, Detroit to close the year. I do wonder if he's going to keep this up.

I kind of like that schedule, actually. I don't know. It's like a shootouts, though. I don't know. You got to write it. As the weather gets colder, the NFL offers stay hot on Fandall. Right now, all customers getting no sweat. Same game parley for every Thursday night football game.

Just play, say, three-legs, same game parley, and you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. Thursday night of football this week. Sorry, DK, but the Seahawks are probably going to rock the Seahawks. So brutal, I would just take all the overs of the Cowboys. Six and a half points just feels way too low. So I think the Cowboys are going to roll, honestly. NFL same game parlias are the perfect way to combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payday. your own or choose from one of the popular same game parley's pre-built for you in Fandall's top-rated

sportsbook app. Just visit fandall.com slash ringer fantasy for your chance to get a no sweat, same game parley every Thursday. Fandle at official sports betting partner in the NFL must be 21 plus and present. It's like state's refund. Non-withdrawable bonus bets that expires seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions applies see terms at sportsbook. Fandle.com. Number seven here, I have Brian Robinson, Jr. running back for the Washington commanders. Brian Robinson's drafted on average, I think it was 89th overall, 90th. He's a top five running back on the season. And all I keep thinking, I know we mentioned a lot of numbers to these other people, but with Brian Robinson, all I keep thinking about is the email we got

right before the year of the guy who showed up late to his draft and panicked and who was on the clock and just took B. Robinson thinking B. Jean Robinson, but it was Brian Robinson and then got roasted by his league. And then it turns out Brian Robinson has been a much better pick than Bichon Robinson. I think with running back specifically, I value health more than any other position. And it's like, because Brian Robinson and points per game is outside the top 10, I think. But if you count just overall points, he's fifth. And same with a guy like Josh Jacobs, where it's like points per game. He's at fringe top 12. But it's like what you need at running back, man, if you're paying money for these guys, you're drafting these guys, like running back is the

hardest position in the world to stay healthy at. So if you can get a guy like Brian Robinson who every week is just giving you 13, 14 points. That's why I put him on this list. Yeah, the found money at running back feels better. Yeah, I think that's, it's a combination of Craig, like you said. He's just scoring points for you consistently, week in and week out. Like, he's not dragging your team down. I would say he has a little bit of the, he's a little bit game script dependent.

But at the same time, he's been better lately because he's been catching so many passes. So he's not even really that anymore. He's just a massive, massive value for every team that has him. It's an interesting question, right? like would you rather have Kairn Williams or Brian Robinson on your team this whole season? Oh, that's a good question.

That's why one guy puts up 25 when he plays, but he's only played seven games. Brian Robinson, however, has played every game and he's like a lock for 15 points a game. I think that the answer might be, that's actually a fair question because if you account for the fact

that Kairn missing the games meant that you had a replacement, maybe the answer is Kiron. And going forward, too. So yeah, that's fair. Kiron was hard. To be clear, Kiron was also hard because people were playing Kiron as soon as week two.

And yet he did not make this list. I think Kieran is, we can agree. Kiron is the biggest omission from this list. All right. So where should he be? I think he should be right around here. I think he should be one spot higher than Brian Robinson. I put him at five. Okay, so I...

Okay, maybe. I think if we were counting going forward... You can change your mind on things. It's okay to do so. I can. I'm not changing mind of tanked out. I've said from the jump here that Kairn Williams is like that one's a better argument. Next time, Josh Allen, quarterback for the bills, I have him sixth.

Josh leads the NFL in touchdowns, also leads the NFL in picks. And we talked this week about how IRL, there's like a weird, like, people are out on Josh Allen, but they're six and six. But at the same time is also the reason they're in all these games. Stephen Rizzo, who says Josh Allen's like a superhero and the Avengers. And guess what? When you save the city, it break a lot of buildings and cars. But for fantasy, he just saves the city. Like, he's, the big three quarterbacks this year were Josh Allen, Jan Hertz, and Mahomes.

Mahomes is fantasy-wise, real life. Like, I mean, real life, he's fine, but falling off in fantasy. And then Jalen Hertz and Josh Allen have both just totally delivered. I have Josh Allen here because he's just been slightly better. He's number one quarterback. Yeah, I like, I like Allen for a number of reasons. Number one, like the advantage he has over DAC. I know DAC is a good value, but like Josh Allen has been really consistent all year

around, all year long. Outside of week one, he had a low week. one, ever since then, his lowest point total has been like 14 points. Nine of the last 11 weeks, he scored over 20. He is just, it's like printing money in fantasy. Having him in your quarterback spot, it's like printing money. And so, I don't know, to me, he's just like, he's not necessarily, you know, I don't know what to even say.

Like, he's not necessarily like winning you your league, but he is absolutely just floating the rest of your team every week. Yeah, he raises the floor of your team unlike any other player, not named McCaffrey, and Tyree Kill. The other reason I bumped Josh Allen so much was from snake drafts, pick like 20-ish to pick 40-ish was just all landmines. Like every single player there was either a miss or disappointing for long stretches. Like Jalen Waddle, Chris Olavay, Devante Smith, T. Higgins, Calvin Ridley,

T. Metcalf, Mari Cooper, Najee Harris, Ramaja Stevenson, Joe Burrow, Joe Mixon, T. Higgins, Mark Andrews, Aaron Jones, preys Hall. All those guys either got hurt, were bad or were good, but then someone around Round them got hurt. Like, you've had a roller coaster with all those guys. The only three people delivered with Travis E.TN, Jalen Hertz, and Josh Allen. It's just nice having him in your lineup, you know? He's like the perfect fantasy quarterback.

Yeah. He's first and passing touchdowns, third in passing yards, second among quarterbacks and rushing touchdowns and fifth in rushing yards. Like, he just does it all. Yeah. And Josh and Jalen Hertz, like, they are the goal line running backs for the team. Like, they're just, they're everything. also he's the most fun quarterback to watch and that sort of matters I think maybe like he's

one of the most fun players to have in fantasy he's one of those guys where if you have him once on your team you fall in love with him yeah and you're like I'm never not having him on my team I just want to right I just want to experience the Josh Allen show every week that high got to feel that high right the lightning I agree with you saying I should have had Kyron higher would you put him above or below Josh where it's like he obviously was like infinitely cheaper but has played fewer times I would I would put him slightly below Josh Allen. I think Josh should be closer to like nine or ten on this list because it's like you drafted him first and he's been good like he has every other year.

But small quibble. Next up here, I have Mike Evans received for the bucks. Totally. What a year for old guys? This guy's been incredible. What a year for old guys? We did a whole episode in August on how old guys were like the market inefficiency in 2020. I think that was like the best analysis we've ever done in our careers.

We didn't go far enough. We back to ask first into it. Yes. Mike Evans was the 79. ninth player off the board. And it turns out he should have just been a top 20, 25th pick again. Because Mike Evans is three times more touchdowns this year

than he did at this point last year. Mike Evans is having a better season this year than any of his years with Tom Brady. That's wild. Tom Brady threw, led the league in passes that whole time, which is another reason it's so weird to think about Baker Mayfield being so efficient he can make up for throwing two-thirds of the throws.

Just think about that. I mean, this guy's 31 years old, having a better year than any of his years of Tom Brady. He's a wide receiver eight on the air, second in the league in touchdowns. And nobody, not a soul was into him this year. Nobody. Nobody wanted him. I think everybody was scared off.

And maybe this is just my member. You guys can back me up or not. But he's just been really volatile as a fantasy option. Like one week he'll score 50. And the next week he'll score like four. Yes. It's just like really frustrating to have one of fantasy. Mike Evans is a, he's a week 18 guy.

He has 200 yards and two touchdowns in week 18. Dude, you did that last year. Thanks for nothing. He had 880 yards. to get a thousand yards every year. And Brady got him to 1100 in one game. And it was like, that's when the season was over. But the, you're so right because he, now he's volatile again, but now it's whether he gets you 20 or 40 instead of 80. Because now it's so different. It's like every week. I'm like, oh, there's another touchdown. Yeah. Like worst case with him, it's like 14 points now.

I also went down way too long of a wormhole and wasted too much time. But like, like, he's also just big. And like, I feel like every year we're like, oh, look this guy. It could be big and good. And it just never is like that. And Mike Evans is actually massive. And he's. huge and bigger than every cornerback. But in the way you envision every player who's tall being, he actually is the only guy who plays that way. Big, tall, and old. He still has a lot of juice, though, I feel like.

Yeah. We think of him, I think we think of him like an old slow guy, but he's old, but also has a ton of juice still. Mike Evans has a lot of, like, fight to him. You know, he's a feisty guy. Every time I see him, I'm like, they're like five and eight, and he is trying his hardest every week, especially against the Saints.

Also, Mike Evans, Craig said he's 30 years old career year. We're getting into a theme territory. Next up, I have Tyree Kill, wide receiver for the dolphins. Tyree Kill leads the NFL in yards, leads the NFL receiving yards, receiving yards per game, and Tyree Kill leads to league or in receiving touchdowns. Tyree Kill is 1,300 yards already.

Tyree Kill only hit 1,300 yards one time in Kansas City. He was there for six years. He had 1300 yards once. Tyree Kill has 1,300 this season at 11 games. And he is the best receiver in the league. he's the fastest receiver in the league and relatedly he is 29 years old he will turn 30 in March

I think like I don't know there's no way to quantify for this how many people have ever been the fastest player in the NFL at 29 years old like I we talk about the old guy thing but it's like oh Tyree kill Mike Evans all these Adam's not I'm feeling but these are genuinely they're peaking and well it's interesting too because haven't they done like the fastest like

People who reached the fastest speeds in game this year and they're all on the dolphins. Rahim Moster's one of them, too. Rahim Moster's 31 and he's still like one of the fastest guys in the least. Coming up on this list. But these old people, they're not slowing down. I would think the other thing that you have to keep in mind, Tyre Killis, not even just top speed. He is the most explosive player in maybe NFL. His acceleration is.

Zero to 60. Yeah, he just runs past guys. They can't keep up with them. You have to completely change the way you play defense. You have to completely change the way you tackle because he's just so ill. and so explosive. He is, you know, truly a unique player. And by the way, he gets incredible, incredible utilization.

He's averaging almost 11 targets per game. 120 yards per game is first in the NFL. You know, and obviously he's in an offense that's very funnel, past funnel to him and like Jalen Waddle, and that's about it. So this is like almost an ideal situation for Tyree Kill. And he's obviously paid off. He's the McCaffrey of wide receivers now, in my opinion. He's created a new tier at the position.

He is above Chase and AJ Brown and Diggs and Jefferson. He's averaging like 25% more points than all those guys. He's just truly now McCaffrey and him are on their own tier. What an expert segue from Craig because next up I have Christian McCaffrey running for the 49ers. So yes, as a player is in his own tier. I have him third just because you probably got him first, second, third, whatever. But like it's like a true, you know, like ADP value question.

It's just the people ahead of them are almost as good but from a cheaper. but Christian McCaffrey just, I don't know what else there is to say. I mean, again, we almost didn't make enough big enough deal about the touchdown and 18 straight games thing. We kind of just kind of joked about it when it ended. But like, I said this before the season and if anything, I didn't talk about it enough. I think that the Christian McCaffrey skill set in the Kyle Shanahan offense on this specific Niners team is the best marriage of talent scheme and surrounding talent since Reddy Moss in the 2007 Patriots. and that we are going to remember the McCaffrey Niners as an all-time real-life and fantasy

running back combination. He has played 22 games with the 49ers. He has scored 26 touchdowns in those games. It's disgusting. He's absolutely ludicrously consistent. I think that's the other part of this conversation I think makes him so valuable is week in and week out. It's like what I was talking about with Josh Allen.

He's just absolutely floating the rest of the rest of the time. of your team, the rest of your team can play like crap and you might still win because you have Christian McCaffrey in your roster. He's first in touches per game, first in scrimmage yards by like 300 among running backs. He has an 80% snap rate, which only Saquan Barkley has more, and a 19.5 target rate. So he's like not only one of the most heavily utilized runners, he's one of the most heavily utilized pass catchers in the NFL in terms of running backs. It's just like, again, it's like printing money every week, weekend and week out. He's just scoring touchdowns are going over 100 yards. It's incredible.

It's the closest thing we've seen to, like, Ladani and Tomlinson in terms of, like, usage, fit, versatility, the feeling of inevitability that he's no matter what going to score. He didn't have a touchdown in one game this year, and in that game he had 142 yards of total office. So it's like, it doesn't matter. He's either scoring or putting up 150 or both every single week. Sorry to disrespect Tom Tom, but the other thing we don't talk about with McCaffrey is, and maybe the highest compliment is his record. Like all these other running backs, we just started. beginning of the show with Zach Moss, Jonathan Taylor, whatever, you put him in. It's like, McCaffrey came in right when Brock Purdy became the starter.

Brock Party got the credit for having lost no games. Let me pull right now. Do you know what the Niners record is with McCaffrey versus when he's out? They've lost like twice? How many? Well, he hasn't missed any games, has he? Are you just saying before? I had it in front of me.

I lost it, but it's like the game, the one, a couple of the games, like the Brown's game, they lost. He also is undefeated, except the Brown's game, he got hurt and he left. They lost that one. So they basically have two loss. They have said three losses in McAfrey's entire tenure, and he was hurt for two of them. Like he was banged up, but he played. But I.

It's wild. It's unbelievable. Keenan Allen, number two, fantasy MVP, Keenan Allen receiver for the Chargers, King of the Olds, 31 years young, leads the NFL of 97 catches. And again, the theme is unbelievable. This is the best season of Keenan Allen's career. He has one touchdown off his career high. It's been 12 weeks since the season.

He's one touchdown away from tying his career high. He's one or two games from having the second highest yardage total of his career. It's week 11. He's going to have 12 games and he's going to have the second highest yardage total of his career. His best fantasy finish ever, it'll almost definitely be, you know, unless he gets hurt. And he's been, he's had a shaved head for eight years. He could have been balding at 22. Who would have never known.

I was like, what? He has an incredibly massive beard, though. He makes up for it. Well, that's what happens, right? You lose the hair up top. You get it down below. Did you see the video where they flip Brian Dable's hair upside down and it works perfectly?

It's fine. We're on to something here, right? Like with all these players are 29, 30, 31 having the best years of their career. The only thing I can think about during this whole thing is just like the biggest strategic advantage you can have in Dynasty is like not being afraid to draft and trade for old players. Like because these guys are, because no one in Dynasty wants these old players. You know what I mean?

They're like so cheap. And these are the top, these are the most valuable players of the fantasy season. They're all like 29 years old. That's just a lesson. I'm going to take that to the bank. Craig is so lucky that he's 29 and I'm 28, almost 29. And that right when we were about to 30, we're like, you know what? 30 is, it really is the new 20.

I'm like, I am limber right now. I feel great. I could run a sub 540 and I'm almost 30. Absolutely could. I meant to, sorry, I think he was, Kinaw was going like, what, 40, 45th this season, number two receiver. Could have been a first run pick. I, we really do need a metric system for age.

Keenan Allen's not 31. He's 2011. The other thing that's, like, nice about Keenan Allen, which has not always been the case with him. And I think one of the reasons people still have a bias against him is he's played in every game this year. He's played in all 11 games. He's been really consistent. His lowest point total all season was seven and a half points in half BBR.

He has four games over 20, two games over 30. so he's not only just like raising the floor with what we'd like expect for a guy like Keenan Allen I think people think oh he's always hurt when they think about his name but he's not Travis Kelsey yeah it sounds like Travis Kelsey where he was not a first run pick he wasn't super famous coming league and then he had some injury issues early and they defined him but like I know I changed Travis Kelsey was saying you had missed a game injury 10 years because he had injuries early Keenan Allen I believe he had a lacerated kidney in 2015 and he missed half a season

then he like tore his ACL or maybe I might have had that backward but he played nine games over two-year stretch. He hasn't, he's missed two games what, eight games in the last eight years. Have you seen his shoulder by the way?

Have you seen his shoulder? Oh yeah, with the bone just sticking out. It's wild. Apparently Anthony Richardson had a similar injury but they had to fix it. Keenan Allen doesn't have to throw but like that.

Right. Yeah, it just looks. And I believe just like Travis Kelsey, I think Keenan Allen's dating Duelipa. I'm pretty sure. What? Really? No.

No. Stop. No, you don't think you would have known that? Come on. Hifitz. She would never. Imagine about what is at Dolly Parton. Hyvenson of freak.

Wow. They're about the same age, right? That would be, like, to scale, I feel like Dolly Parton or Deolipa would actually put the chargers on the map just as much as, like, you know what I mean? This is really the year of the old. This is the last five years. Old presidents, CEOs.

musicians, athletes. Everyone's old. Did you see Derek Thompson retweeted something today from a professor at some college that like got an, he's like, I'll never get over this email for my student. Oh, it was incredible. The student emailed, hey, professor, whatever the name was, I just was wondering what what your policy was inciting research from the 1900s. The late 1900s.

The late 1990s. I found this paper that I thought was really relevant, but it's from 1994. Do you have like a cutoff date for what is exactly? acceptable? Jesus. The comment on the tweet was like, I will never get over this. The late 1900s.

That's our new thing. We all have players for the late 1900s. I mean, if you're born in the 1900s, I have thought about that that like my grandchildren are going to be like,

oh my God, grandpa was born in the 1900. Dude, they're going to like your great grandfather was 1895 and you're like, damn, 1995. What a freaking,

damn. They had to drive cars with his feet. It's crazy. Anyway, number one, talk about King the olds. Rahim Mostert, running back Miami Dolphins.

I think he's the... Do we all have him number one? D.K., was he your number one? I did mine in tiers. So I didn't really specifically rank them. But he was in your top tier? Yes. He was in the tier of guys that you draft

late that have been absolutely ludicrously valuable to your team. Yeah. Relative to the where you got him, it's hard to be how much value he's brought. Rahim Mostert's the number one running back. Sorry, he's the number one fantasy MVP this year. MVP. He's the number two running back on the year. Christian McCaffrey's better. Christian McCaffrey's like

50 more points to me, Mostard. And while McCaffrey's 50 more points, he was going 100 or 150 picks before Mostard. And that's it. And again, the reason I had all the Tank Dell stuff is I started with, when did people actually start playing Mostor? And the answer was basically immediately, and all of his great performances happened when people were playing him. Like he had a decent week one, people put him in their lineups, and then he just exploded. I know he hasn't had all these crazy games. really just McCaffrey has had like a bunch of absurd stuff. Every running back's had ebbs and flows. Travis Eton has had Ebs and Flows.

Brian Robinson at Ebs and Flows. But most are, the highs have been as high as any player. You got him probably with a teenth pick, a 14, a 15, something. You got him. And he's just, he's also a likable guy. And again, the second oldest running back in the NFL. That's wild, actually. He's 31.

And he's played every game, unlike his teammate, Devon Aichand, who's 10 years younger than him? I, I, it's, is wasted on the young. The real MVP, man, is the McDaniels-Shannahan schemes, running backs. We need a new classification in fantasy football for guys on these coaches' teams. They're like electrical conductors for running backs. We should put, and all seriousness, we should have a badge on next year's draft guide that's like a shit and we should have the outline of.

Yeah, but this used to be a bad thing, remember? This used to be like, oh, God, we don't never know who's going to even score points. Well, and then they got McCaffrey and it was like, all right. Well, yeah, it's the babysits. I mean, also, who was the fantasy MVP? last year. Can you remember off the top of your head anybody? I can't. Justin Jefferson? I'm just trying to think like how unlikely of a of an MVP for he mostered is in the context of, you know, the last five years of fantasy. I do want to say that there's like MVP's league winners.

And like right at this point, we can't say a league winner. Like a league winner, like a league winner, like realistically MVP is a person who won the championship. But there's also, McKinnon was a league winner last year, wouldn't you say? Yeah, exactly. There's some guys come on late. Like last year there was, um, who was it? Cammakers. Yeah, Cam Acres who just, yeah, from December on, they just pick them up on your play. They get you the playoffs and they get you all the way through. Maybe they're not quite an MVP. Last year, it was Travis Kelsey, because Kelsey, like, the gap between, again, Kelsey number one and Hawkinson number two was like same as the gap between Hawkinson at two and tight end and Mike Kisicki at 22. And if you had Kelsey, you basically like a 40% chance of getting the, like, you drafted Kelsey in the second round, you have four extra chances of making the playoffs.

Just with that pick. It almost didn't matter what you did. and this year that's like Rahim Moster. Like literally, if you just have Rahim Moster on your team, you were like six times more likely to make the playoffs as of this moment. That's based on math. I didn't just make that up. 15 touchdowns leads the league.

Unbelievable. So shout out Rahim Moster. And I know we just talked about this for quite a while, but just to go through this list, Mostert, oldest running back in their second-old's running at the NFL 31. Keenan Allen is 31. He's number two. Tyree Kills 29.

30 next year. Mike Evans will be 31 next year. We also have Adam Thiel in here at, I don't know, 70, whatever he is. Is there at, well, we actually, and also, I didn't put Alvin Camara on this list. And Alvin Camara is one of the older name that I would have added here. Yeah, Camara. Yeah. Camara. He, with all the Saints receivers out, he's a guy that when you,

we do this at the end of the year might just be like top five if he just keeps getting all the catches. I don't, I really think there is something about olds and youngs and known in between. I don't know. Soon to be dead and newly bred. No middle class. Yeah. I'm going to take this into next year, though.

I'm going to pocket this old guy thing and remember it heading into next season. The hard thing is, is I know I'm going to look at Keenan Allen next year. I'm going to go. Yeah, but he's too old now, right? Yeah, 32. That's always the problem.

It's always the problem you run into. It's like, oh, don't want to be caught holding the bag. Is being caught holding the bag really that big of a deal? just hold the bag. Just don't think about it. Just hold the bag. Is that a bank robbing? I don't actually know what that expression.

Actually, yeah, you're right, Craig. It probably is. Like, you don't want to be the guy who actually holds the money when you escape? You don't want to be caught red-handed. Yeah, it's the guy stuck with the stolen goods. Okay. But yeah, it's like, I think there's this fear that you're like, oh, you know, this is finally going to be the year that they fall off.

Sell high. Get out early. Yeah, be right. If you take Derek Henry and he's bad, you're not going to get paint splattered in your eyes and get arrested. Like, it's fine. It's just an added variable because in your mind you're like, look, Keenan Allen, he could be too old and he could fall off a cliff. If I draft Brandon Ayuk or if I draft Amonar St. Brown, at least I'm removing the age variable from the possibilities of why he could he could underperform. We'll have a lot of offseason to talk about this, but there's something here. Check back in in July. We'll be talking about this again in July. So just don't turn that dial.

Well, honestly, my real take is that everyone's going to be on this and it'll go away and we should just draft young people again next year. Oh, yeah, we just gag. The only thing Craig's going to be thinking, about during the offseason is tank dell and how young he is and how exciting he is and how out of nowhere he came and then now we're going to try and find the next tankdale yeah Craig where would you put tank dell on this list now that we've done the list and we're adding kairn williams williams in the like we'll call him seventh um i think tank dell should be 10th above adam thielin well that would still be 11th because we added karen williams i would put him ahead of hawkinson as well all right got him on the record all right emails uh email from clay clay

Clay. So it's celebrity run-ins. Clay went to high school in Brooklyn. Clay writes, when I was in 10th grade, my friend and I were walking to the subway. It was six in the morning. We were hungry as shit. We saw a movie trailer that was set up.

Movie trailer has a shit ton of scones and fruit and muffins and bacon and eggs, all the usual breakfast stuff. So me and my friend, being the menaces that we were, decided that since it was empty, we're just going to roll up to this table and open our backpacks and shove in all the food that we could fit and eat on the subway. And in retrospect,

kind of nasty of loose eggs in my backpack but whatever I was in 10th grade anyways they were loose eggs into his backpack

well I don't know if he meant loose eggs scrambled eggs scrambled eggs rolling around with the pencil shavings at the bottom of his bag yikes

so they're shoving the breakfast in their backpacks from this table as we're almost done one of the doors in the trailer swings open and the guy that pops out is Robert De Niro

no way Robert De Niro looks us up and down and says, What are you boys doing? Another great old actor, still pumping, the kidding out of actors. We just stood there in shock. De Niro walks up to us, looks us up and down, looks down towards the food. And De Niro goes, yeah, they put out too much food anyways. Then he throws us an apple and says, you guys look like you need some fruit.

Classic. Hell yeah. I don't know why, but I feel like De Niro is one of the good ones. Oh, yeah. Did you hear his speech at the Gotham Awards? He's hilarious. Having said that, the memes, one of the best memes this year was the De Niro and Pacino when they were both 80 and having a kid.

And it was like with succession, it was like the two disgusting brothers. They both have like eight kids. Still cranking him out. Mick Jagger just had a kid. He's like 80 something. Oh, my God. I think about how old I'm going to be when Calvin's like getting his driver's license and stuff. I don't like to think about it because it's like wild.

But like, can you imagine if you're going to be like in your 90s when your kid is getting a driver's license? Craig, you laughed at me and Dolly Parton, but she's 77. Right. Sure. Spring chicken. All right. That's all we got. Thank you, D.K.

Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Kai, for participating this episode. Thank you, Jack, Tucker, everyone behind the scenes. Thank you, Lorne. Lord. Thank you, LMFAO. Wow. Fuck yeah.

No, the killers for the, Party Rock Anthrop. I feel like I did the killers just recently. That's true. They're an uncle-nephew combo, right? Uncle nephew. Red foo is one of their names. And the other one's name, I can't remember.

But one is Red Fu. I did not know that. Fun fact about LMFA or I guess funny anecdote around them. So in high school, you know, we used Facebook a lot. And my friend Chris, who was the best man in my wedding, who you guys now know, posted something about like Saturday night or like, what's going on? Saturday night or something like that. And somebody commented like, oh, are you going to this party, whatever, whatever? This guy, random guy commented, is Chris Barlow and the party rock crew going to be

there? And that is something that we had never called ourselves. That was not a name. We don't know why he said that. And from that day on, we always referred to ourselves as the party rock crew. And then that song, that song always meant a lot to us because we became the party rock crew. I still to this day Don't know why he said that That random person Well I talked about you guys As the party rock crew

You know Yeah I mean enough with the party rock crew later Is party rock a term that was Like has that always been around that phrase party rock Or did they make that I know of Not that I know of

I feel like it was after that song came out People started saying it like that It sounds like something that like chat GPT would name the song. Party rock. I know. It's like a real algorithmic no brainer there. The party rock anthem reminds me of like the thing that I visualize

is being on like a party bus, you know, like going between bars. That was that they nailed it. That's like the home. That's the home base of that song is like you're on a mini bus with like a stripper pole in the middle of it. I think rope lights. You could make the case that LMFEO is like the worst thing that's ever happened to music.

Craig's going in hot with these takes. I love it. I mean, I don't know. It's just like their music is so unartistic and ridiculous. Their name is fucking LMFAO. Their songs are called Party Rock. And I'm sexy and I know it. Sorry for Party Rocking.

They have a song that's just called Shots. Sorry for Party Rockings. They have a song called I'm in music. Miami bitch is the name of the song. Oh my God. They have a song named Shots. Like, if you can take like your 80 year old grandfather, like who is the last band you would want to show them to prove that we have the best

music in our generation? The new generation's fine. The kids are all right. It might be LMFAL. Who's below them? Right. It's funny because like they're, they're not satire, are they? I don't believe so

You have to ask though I think they're earnest With that said I like them And I have very fond memories Playing their music growing up But like Right man Yo hold on

It's sorry for party rock One of the guys is named Goon Rock What is it? Rock is his name? Sure Party Rock anthem is with LMFAO But then the song was someone named Goon Rock on Party Rock

I'm not familiar with their words I don't, Craig, that's one of the best takes you've ever had. That's true. It's like, I'm more ashamed of LMFAO than any... I don't know who's below them. Also, once they got big enough that they could have the song, they're like, what if we just... Oh, man, who should we get? They're like, oh, what if we just had a little John and say shots, like 130 times?

He just yelled shot for 80% of the song. Great song. Also, dude, wait, we were talking about what's the easiest money anyone's ever made, and we had Vin Diesel doing, I am Groot? A hundred things. You think it's a little John yelling shots? John's showing up and saying shot, shot, shot, and doing it like twice. He's got to be yelling.

That's got to be a little bit harder on your vocal cords and just saying, I am. He needs to have rhythm. He also has to perform it over and over and over at concerts. Vin Diesel just like one session. Yeah, they don't even need to bring him in more than once. He could be done it from his house, technically. Just mail it in. Use a fucking Zoom recorder.

Send it online. It's very easy. I can show them how to it. I bet I could do. I will volunteer. If anyone's listening, I will be the next group. and I'll do it for like a quarter of what... Shot, shot, shot, shot.

I'm in Miami, bitch. I do have a lot of very good memories to LMFAO, though. I will say, I'm with you, Craig. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Defined, you know, part of what the music's musical generation that defined my friend group. Those memories are like the plastic liquor bottle version of a memory, though. You know what I mean?

I just like, if their name was something, like, if they were just called like, I don't know, even like the chain smokers. Like that's a name. These guys are called LMFAO. LMFAO. I'm literally LMFAO. All right, goodbye everyone.

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