The Ringer NFL Show - Power Ranking the Worst Quarterbacks in the NFL

Episode Date: October 11, 2023

Power Hour! Ranking the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL. If you had to win a game tomorrow, who would you want to have the least (1:31)? “You guys want to do some emails?” (42:12) Check out The Ringer’s Fantasy Football Rankings for positional rankings, waiver wire pickups, and much more! Fanduel.com/ringerffs is live! Zach Wilson (5:43) Desmond Ridder (7:55) Bryce Young (9:58) Mac Jones (12:27) Jordan Love (15:09) Josh Dobbs (19:32) Justin Fields (22:15) Sam Howell (25:14) Kenny Pickett (28:03) Daniel Jones (32:34) Email us! [e-mail] Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens and Jack Sanders Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Dana Hypefitt. And I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlebeck. Today it's power hour, baby. We are power ranking something every Wednesday. And today we are power ranking the worst, the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. Craig, does this give you life? Yeah, this is my, it's no fun talking about good players.

It's way more people bond over hate, not love. D.K., I am curious how many, of these quarterbacks because you were able to peruse the list. I made the list, but I'm curious, how many players in a given week of quarterback are you, like, personally offended by? Personally offended by watching them play. I would say five to six.

I think, like, there's several guys on this list. We made a list of the 10 worst quarterbacks in the NFL. There's several guys on this list where I'm just like, they're fine. Like, let's lay off of them. This is just being a little bit mean. And then the rest, probably six, five to six guys, I'm just like, I don't want to watch these players anymore. Like, we need to get new people in the NFL.

We need to get, you know, the next year's draft is a really good quarterback class. So that's great. I can't wait for these guys to get here. We need to get rid of these bad players and bring in good players. Wait, I want to make sure before we do this that everybody's aware. Are we ranking these guys based on the offenses they are currently in? Or are we plucking them and dropping them all on the same team and seeing who plays the best? I'm glad you asked, it's the latter.

It's the parameters are we're looking, we're mostly doing starters. We're kind of cutting Gardnerman's out of this. guys that teams were basically planning on playing more or less. Everyone healthy. So like everyone like not like, oh, Daniel Jones's neck injured. They know it's everyone's fully healthy. And then to your question, you're trying to separate the player from the context of the team.

So that includes Brock Purdy being separated from the Niners and all the skill players. But it also includes like Kenny Pickett or Justin Fields being plucked off their like weird offenses designed by like weird people. So we're trying. I don't know if you want to imagine like, I don't know, it's like an automatic quarterback and flag football or something. You want to imagine like an average team, but also it's for this week. It's for like right now. It's you to win this weekend and the person is healthy. So it's not like, oh, who has more potential?

It's like, how is Bryce Young playing now? Like that's what we're going for. It's so hard to separate this. And it goes back to your nature versus nurture thing because it's impossible to know what Brock Purdy looks like, not on the Niners. It's impossible to know what Kenny Pickett looks like without Matt Canada. So it's an interesting exercise because you're trying to like imagine what they could be without their counterpart in being in their play caller.

I think it's a really good point, and I want to be honest, like it's kind of impossible to do it perfectly. But the way I did do this list, and I want to just give this transparency for, is to counter that. I actually started with if these guys were healthy and this team had to win a game this week,

like this offense, had to like win a game. And then I was, and then I did the rankings. And so, for example, like I put Mack Jones last. But then, spoiler, he's not last in the or first in this list because I was like well the Patriots offense who would be good. So with that so just that's the note of how I did these rankings is I try to start with like I try to

unbiased myself by starting with just who would be bad and then like all right who would actually thrive in a different circumstance and who would who would not. It's funny though because I made my own rankings so I'll argue with you. You were the one who we're reading your rankings on this show but I went and made my own just so I could see how I agreed or disagreed with you. But then I also went and made my rankings. of those same quarterbacks, offensive coordinators. And it's very interesting to see the differences in where, you know, the coordinator

rests versus the player. And like Kenny Pickett has the biggest discrepancy for me personally on Matt Canada, I think is the worst play caller in the league. And Kenny Pickett is not the worst quarterback in the league to me. And but it is interesting to see most of the time, it's hard for me to separate the two where you, like the four best quarterbacks on this list have the four best coordinators, in my opinion. Yeah.

And it's chicken and the egg because is Matt Canada bad? Or if you gave Matt, if you, it's kind of like how Patricia, you fired Patricia and then the Patriots offense is now worse. And it's like, well, we blame me Mac Jones or Belichick now.

So all right. And again, a reminder, you can go at NFL rankings.com and you can make your own rankings actually. You're Steven Reese, has a quarterback rankings there and you can actually make your own. And you can confuse everyone and just put the way we're doing it.

You could put like Zach Wilson as number one. And then everyone will be confused why you have Zach Wilson first. So you go make them there. All right. Without further ado, let's get to it. Again, we're power ranking the worst quarterbacks in the league, and we're doing it as if they had played this week, and we're going to do a power hour style.

If you're not familiar with Power Hour, every two minutes, you're going to hear this sound from TomTom Club, which we couldn't get cleared on Fandall TV. It's a great song, but, you know, Fandle TV, we have a nice, wonderful copyright-free music. And I rank these guys, so D.K. and Craig will happily quibble with me. But again, number one is the worst quarterback in the NFL. So one is bad, and everyone after the...

them is less bad. So they'll further do. My number one, worst quarterback in the NFL, dude, I put Zach Wilson for the Jets. I genuinely think Zach Wilson might be the worst quarterback I've ever watched play football. And I think that the last two weeks, he played better enough that I'm willing to say, I think Blake Bordals is still number one. But I don't know, is that hyperbolic? Are we living in the moment? Or is it fair to say at the least, Zach Wilson's in the conversation for the worst quarterback of the decade? No, well, geez, wow. I didn't know we were doing that list. But I would say, yes, he was my number one as well.

This one is, I think, probably unanimous. Craig, do you agree? Yes, I do. Yeah. I think with Wilson, it's really the statistics match the eye test. And the eye test is horrific. It's his poise is really bad. His footwork is really bad.

His accuracy is bad. His decision making is bad. In the game against the Chiefs, he looked okay at times, clearly. But pretty much every other game we've seen in play, he's been, it's to the point where it's really, really difficult to just complete a simple pass. That's how, that's where this Jets offense is. That's why I think Zach Wilson belongs at number one here. Do I think he could improve down the line? Sure, I do. But right now, as it stands, yes, he is, he's just not a good starter. Here's, here's why I put Zach Wilson dead last. I tried to imagine all of these guys, all of the

worst quarterbacks in the league, dropped into the Niners offense right now. How would they do? I think Zach Wilson is the only quarterback in the league who wouldn't work on the Niners. He's going to be a future Niners. You know that, right? Like, two years from now, he's on the Niners. Like, imagining him, he, I'm like, I'm like, Mac Jones, Bryce Young, you know, picket, Dobbs. They could all probably run the Shanahan Niners offense right now. If you drop Zach Wilson in there, I don't think they're good. I think he's screwing things up left and right. Did Dickie's point about completing pass as a quarterback before the, in the pre-draft process of the draft, once told me that a quarterback's job is fundamentality to complete passes.

And Zach Wilson is like maybe possibly going to be the first quarterback to ever be last in completion percentage three years in a row. Good timing. There you go. All right. We're all in agreement here. That one felt easy. This felt,

for me, kind of easy too. All right. Next up, I have Desmond Ritter, quarterback for the Falcons. I remember when I was a kid, I played Madden.

And like I started on the rookie mode and he, like the easiest difficulty in Madden. and it just, you know, rocked everyone. And then it moves out to pro. And I'll never forget, like, the hubris nine-year-old Danny Hyfitz being like, oh, I'll just do all mad and this is so easy. And, like, just trying with, like, Eli Manning to throw and, like, just getting picked by, like, Brian Dawkins and Lido Shepard and, like, just feeling like this is impossible.

That's how I feel watching Desmond Ritter play football is I feel like the difficulty got turned up. I think it's wild that you have to have number two. This, like, I'm not going to argue that he's really good. But there's so many other guys on this list that I would have above him. So if you go through all of his stats this year, and I understand that some of these are team stats, but his success rate, 44% 17th, 6.9 yards per attempt, 20th, 6.5 adjusted yards per attempt, 19th. Basically, almost all of his stats are just like right in the middle of the league.

I don't think he's a good quarterback, but he's not the second worst quarterback in the NFL. Like, it's absurd. Craig, do you agree? Am I being too harsh in Desmond Ritter? I don't have him as the second worst. I have him as the fourth worst. And I think there's a, I think a lot of it has to do with his game this week, where he was awesome. He had his best game of his career by far.

It's a bad week to say this because he literally just let a game winning drive against the Texans. And he was great. He'd over 300 yards. He had no turnovers. He ran in a touchdown. And look, he's played like nine games or something. I think he only started two games last year. So seven games he's played?

I agree. But that's the thing. We're doing it right now. Yes, I get it. But I will say he does it. He leads the NFL in turnover. Or sorry, second in the NFL and turnover worthy plays. and there are three top 10 picks on this offense.

I still think I'd rather have him than Bryce Young or Mac Jones right now. He doesn't feel like a disaster to me. Again, I'm not arguing that he's awesome or that he's good even. I just like, there's guys on this list that have been absolutely abject disasters this year. That's a really fair way to characterize it. Desmond Ritter has not been a disaster. He did do the four hard counts in the first half to get off sides and the NFL tweeted that video of him like holding it. Fine.

So next up, this was the weirdest one. And I know this is odd. but I have third. I have Bryce Young, quarterback for the Panthers. And I know this is weird, you guys probably in second. Panthers are 0 and 5.

Bryce Young's dead last and total QBR and ESPN. I actually think he's looked better than the numbers show because the number show he's like the worst quarterback. Did you guys have him second? Yeah.

I'm third. Oh, wait. No, I'm sorry. I had him second. Yeah. I think he's the second one. I didn't have him,

I had him fifth. And the main reason is, I just think we haven't seen enough. Like this is, it's a few games in. his support system is arguably the worst in the NFL right now. Yeah, but this is, you have a game this week and you need a quarterback to win you the game. So you're saying you haven't seen it doesn't really help.

Your Niners test, right? I shouldn't be fine on the Niners. Like watching the Panthers. I agree. Like the, I think the Panthers offense is bad. Like Adam Phelan's been like amazingly good. He's been one of the guys that was most wrong on this year. But the Panthers offensive overall is weird.

I mean, you got Frank Wright, the head coach is already being like, yeah, David Teper, those meetings aren't fun and sounded like he was just trying to be like, yeah, I wanted C. CJ Stroud. But I will say the thing with Bryce Young, DK I'm curious about this. We talked with so much with the NFL draft show. I have to say, maybe this is stupid to admit.

Bryce Young being small is madded even more than I thought. And like when he gets hit, did you guys ever play Grand Theft Auto? Like when you get hit by a car, you just roll and roll. Like Bryce show, when he gets hit, he gets like hit.

The ironic part is the guy who, Anthony Richardson, who's like 6, 4, 235 pounds has been injured in three out of the four games he's played so far. So like, we're probably quibbling a little bit here.

But I think that was a big reason I was a little bit spooked, you know, when he was coming into the draft is basically this is an outlier player in the NFL's history in terms of his size. And I think the lack of size does show up, you know. So I'm not ready to give up on him. I think, you know, obviously it's been only a few games. He missed a game with an ankle injury. He basically just like is good at throwing eight-yard passes essentially.

And that's kind of as far. Like, he's averaging four yards in the air per pass. 4.6 yards in the air per pass, Brian Schaunt. He's just dropping back, bouncing on his tippy toes, and throwing like a slant. And that's kind of all he does. I agree. I think I was just trying to separate.

I'm like, well, the Panthers O-line sucks and, like, half their receiving core is, like, gadget players. So. Their receiving core is the worst in the NFL, like, pretty much by a long shot. Adam Thielen is by far their best player. And the Vikings were like, me to... All right. This is the next player here, I think this one's going to be the real Roorshock test.

It's Mac Jones, the Patriots. I put him fourth. Statistically, he's worse. It's four, like, too high or too low. What do you think, to get? I had him second. Oh, my God. Second worst.

Yeah, like, you're higher on Mac than I think Craig and I are. I think, so if you go back a couple of years, Mac Jones, I think would have been considered probably he was looking like he's going to be the best rookie in that class, in that class. But the years have gone by and things have gotten worse. And he's added, I would say, personality things to his evaluation that. kind of like. He's Grace and Allen. Yeah, he is, he's a dirty player who acts like a petulant child.

And so it's, it's kind of hard to like look past those things when he's playing so poorly. You know what I mean? And like creating so many turnovers. He's, you know, his statistics are atrocious this year. This is by far the worst offense in the NFL, the Patriots. Obviously, there are issues around him. They don't have any speed at the receiver position. Their offensive line is terrible.

But he is making it worse. You know what I mean? He's not, I wouldn't look at him versus Bryce. like Bryce, I think, is just kind of doing what he can in a really bad situation, whereas Mac Jones is like actively making it worse. I don't know. To me, he's just been he's been atrocious this year. That's why I would have him higher on this list.

And he's so immobile. And like, he's like the least mobile young quarterback I've seen in a long time. Like he already is 35. He's a 25 year old with a dad mod. I will say it's funny too because, I mean, these are last, you know, last two Alabama quarterbacks. And so it's funny to like look at these. these guys, I guess I was just thinking, like, what if Bryce Young was on the Patriots?

Like, how would that be going? And the Patriots are last in every category or second last in every category that matters. They're last in offensive or passing EPA and rushing EPA. And Mack Jones leads the league in turnover worthy place. But the thing I keep coming back to is like, I don't know. I feel like the Patriots of the worst offensive situation, or at least I think the Patriots are the top two worst offensive situation. Yeah, it's got to be them in the Panthers right now, man. It's just like no talent around these quarterbacks. It's, it makes it much harder to judge, certainly. And so I think you have to at least say that caveat

that these guys have a terrible situation. That's the caveat I want to, and that's kind of where I put Ritter 31st, is I kept trying to imagine Desmond Ritter running the Patriots offense. And I just was like, you know what, Mack Jones and the Falcons might be fine. Like, I just, I don't know. I was like, how many players do the Falcons have that would be the best player on the Patriots? It's like Bejohn would,

Kyle Pittswood, Drake London would, would Mac Collins be the best receiver for the Patriots? God, it's not bad, isn't it? Just saying, like, I don't know. Hi, Fitz, me and you were talking about this. Would Devante Parker even be on any other roster in the NFL right now? Panthers. Right. Like, it's wild that he's their number one receiver.

Ridiculous. All right. Next up here, this one breaks my heart. Fifth worst quarterback in the NFL. I have Jordan Love for the Packers. You're off the Jordan Love train already. Five weeks in. You know I love Jordan Love.

But it's the stepbrothers like, all right, now the tuxedo is kind of messed up. I got to watch him on football, Jordan Love, with the Raiders throwing the three picks in the game end. I was like, all these interceptions seem kind of messed up. I actually think that last pick wasn't that bad. I thought it was a better interception than it was. It was a better play by the defense than it was a bad throw by him. I'm surprised.

I actually don't have him as low as you do. I think, like, if my life was on the line, I would rather have Jordan Love work down the field than Kenny Pickett or Josh Dobbs or... He was the hardest thing. Maybe I moved him. I overcorrected because I made this list and I watched one in at football. And I was like, am I insane? like what just happened.

I think here's what's freaking me out. The deep pass, the Packers, he's throwing downfield, actually more than anyone. Yeah, he's aggressive. Yeah,

he is aggressive and he's throwing, which is good. You want young quarterbacks to like be aggressive. You rather like have them make mistakes and learn from it. You can't teach them and have the dog in them. But his completion percentage is like 26

that of like 30 quarterbacks. The one that's freaking me out and I was like maybe I'm underrating this is, he's so inaccurate. Like he's just the in, like he's missed so many deep shots in the first five weeks. Like how many times can we say, oh,

we had Luke Musgrave deep and he missed it. Or he had Luke Musgrave deep and he under threw it. And then like that past the end. Yeah, Christian Watson. Like it's part of a thing where I'm like, oh yeah, the ball was at the other pilot. It needed to be at the back of the end zone where only Watson could get it. So, I know, DK, am I over, like, I love coming in. I love the first two weeks.

Am I like over correcting here? Well, this was my worry is that the first few weeks, obviously he was, his statistics were really strong and we're like, oh, wow, this is awesome. he's maybe going to be like the next great Packer quarterback and they're going to have like, you know, no in between time between going from Farr to Rogers to Love and blah, blah, blah, and all those narratives are kind of dissolving right now just because Love is acting like any other young quarterback, essentially and just making a lot of mistakes. He's, I think especially like you mentioned, scatter shot on those deep shots,

that's a big part of their offense where they're doing a lot of play action, throw the ball deep, let their receivers run under it. But he just is throwing it either way too far inside when he's wanting to throw it outside or vice versa, leaving it short when he needs to put it over the guy's head. And, you know, the turnovers are stacking up. He's got six picks, which is second worst in the NFL. And his off target rate is the second worst in the NFL, according to true media. So the accuracy issues are showing up.

That was something that was the case in college where you're coming in and he's aggressive. I actually comped him to Yolo Marcus Mariotto. I was looking back at my comps because he just like, he'll just huck it. You know, he just like, you only live once. I'm going for it. And that's kind of showing up right now, even though he's been in the league for, is this his fourth year already? Like, it's kind of crazy.

Yeah. But obviously, still inexperienced as a starter. So I'm willing to give him some slack. But, and by the way, and I know I'm disrespecting Tom Tom here. But the receivers in his offense are all 22 and 23 years old. It's every single one of them. None of them can rent a car. There's not a 25-year-old catching passes.

They're all like a bunch of friends who just like moved into the dorm together. And they're all just still getting murdered out. Yeah, you know. They got to start having a car. having breakfast. Like, who could and Cooper. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm still, for that reason, I'm still high on Jordan Love. We're talking about if you're going to win a game this weekend. I was also about like, all that you said Dick Kemp. But also Matt Lafleur,

like the offense, I'm like, I don't know, you could stick one of these other guys in. I'm like, you know, if I'm going to penalize these other guys, I'm like,

I don't know, what if you put Desmond Ritter into this Packers offense. So I moved Jordan Love down. I just can't believe that. High fits that, what, four or five weeks in here, that you would rather have Justin Fields

and Kenny Pickett over Jordan Love? I don't know. Honestly, what happened was it's in the context of trying to remove them from the team. It's Jordan Love on the Steelers and Kenny Pickett on the Packers. And you're saying you'd rather have Kenny Pickett on the Packers? This weekend? I think I agree with that.

Yeah, I do. If I'd win this weekend, like three years from now, I think Jordan Love's going to be way better than Kenny Pickett. Yeah, but no, but we're not doing that. We're not doing if Jordan Love is on the Steelers and Kenny Pickett was on the Packers. If they're both on the same average team. Right now? Yeah, kind of.

picket. I think because again, Pickett at least has played more football. Jordan Love hasn't played football in a long time. Like he's, it's like a weird mix if he's set. I don't know. He's missing passes by a lot. All right, here's the,

this was, I wouldn't call this person the hardest player to rank, but I would say more like, this person made me the most like existential about, do I know anything about football or not. Josh Jobs, quarterback for Arizona, put him sixth,

and I couldn't decide if you needed to be way higher or lower based than how he's played. Dobbs has been all right. Again, when did Josh Jobs join the car? Cardinals? Several weeks ago. Like late August? He's been all right.

Two weeks before the season. The Quantum League quarterback just gets put it and just gets to run the Arizona Cardinals. Am I? Once again, is this too high? D.K.? This is too low. I would think this is too high. I thought he's been pretty impressive, honestly, all things to consider.

And again, this is the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. This is the list of the worst quarterbacks. I would not put Josh Dobbs on that list, honestly. I think he's acquitted himself well. If you look at some of those numbers You don't think he's top You don't think he's bottom 10? I think he's probably like bottom half.

I think bottom 10 is aggressive probably. I don't think he's, you know, the reason the Cardinals are losing. He's given them a chance to win. And so, and by the way, he also, you know, if you look at his statistics in passing, pretty solid across the board like 91 pass rating, which is 17th, 55 QBR, 16th. He's not taking very many stacks.

His success rate is solid. The ZPA per dropback is right in the middle of the NFL. I think he's giving the Cardinals a chance to win, even though they probably don't want to win at this point. You know what I mean? And so I don't know.

I just wouldn't put him in the bottom 10. Again, this is a fine line, I guess, but I'm just, I would say he's middle of the pack more than bottom 10. So again, Stephen Ruiz has his quarterback rankings at NFL rankings. Dot the Rearner.com. And you can build your own.

We could just go through, I mean, we don't have to like spoil the order of the list. But I mean, where would you put, you say Dobbs over like Kedipit? Dobs over Daniel Jones right now for this weekend? You're doing do dobs over like Tannahill, Baker Mayfield, Jimmy Garoppel? How high are we going?

I would do dobs over Daniel Jones right now, 100%. What? Easily. Oh, my time. Let's wait until we get to Daniel Jones' stats this year. We should talk about these stats that he's got. I know that stats lie, but you know what? They also matter a little bit because it's been atrocious with Daniel Jones.

I have D.K. Fine and both Craig and Carlos have frozen for me, which is like an incredible combo. Is that me? I'm definitely on Ethernet now. That's weird, though. It's almost like you paid for a service that you expected to work, and then it didn't. All right. We'll get to that at the end of the episode.

We will get to that. Oh, my God. That's got to be pretty frustrating, though, to expect the Ethernet to work when you sit down. But, hey, look, modern Internet is very difficult, so you can't hold it against them. We should just be thankful we've got roofs over our heads, Craig. Yeah. I got a glass of water right here. It's clean.

Most people don't have that. Next up there, we have number seven. Well, not we, I have number seven. I have Justin Fields, quarterback for the Bears, who also felt like a really hard person to rank because Justin Fields, I don't know where we would have put him two weeks ago, but then he, the last two games.

Like, six days ago. Yeah. Fields in a five-game stretch, five-day stretch, he played two games. A quarter of his career touchdown passes came in like a five-day stretch last week. Like, D.K., literally, where would you have put Fields, like, Craig, where would you put Fields like a week ago or two weeks ago?

Probably right after Zach Wilson. Yeah, same. Same. I mean, look, he's second in the league and touchdowns passes right now, Justin Fields. And he was a bottom five quarterback in fantasy to start the season. He's now fourth in the league in fantasy points per game, Justin Fields. I have him a little bit lower than you. You have him as the seventh worst.

I have him as the fifth. Just because when you go back to the Niners example, if you dropped him in on the Niners, there's still like a wildness to Fields' arm that I just don't trust. Like, I still just don't trust that if he drops back, there's a guy over the middle that he can hit him. And I honestly feel like Josh Dobbs can. Yeah, if we drop Fields into the Shanahan offense, Shanahan's getting him into the doghouse within like two games for sure.

He'd be traded to Dallas. Right. He'd be a third string within a week. 100%. But yeah, Hyphids, I would totally agree with Craig there that I would have had him second worst in the NFL before two weeks ago. But he started doing things that we saw him doing, you know, at Ohio State of the last two games, where he's just kind of, and he said this before these last two games, I'm just going to play loose.

I'm not going to think about it too much. I'm going to start like just gripping it and ripping it, you know, to not, not to quote him, but that's like paraphrasing. And honestly, he's looked so much better in these last two games. I do understand he played the Broncos defense two weeks ago, which is terrible. But I think just overall his confidence is back. you know, the offense is starting to gel around him a little bit. I'm not saying he's a good quarterback again at this point.

He is way too slow as a processor still. And I think that's like potentially his fatal flaw. And we'll see if he can kind of speed things up as he gets more experience and all that. But man, he has played a lot better. And like Craig said, he's second in the NFL in touchdowns. He has 11 touchdown passes. You can't ignore that. The reason I move fields up because, again, I tried starting with like ranking the offenses where I trust him.

And I was like, so the Bears invented the quarterback position like 85 years ago. and they haven't actually developed one since. And I'm like, at some point, like, maybe this, like, I watched the last two games. I'm like, maybe this is the Bears' fault. It's like a guy, you know, it was like, as eight relationships work, I was like, dude, women, man, women. I'm like, it might be you. Like, I don't know. Like, maybe it's the Bears.

Like, he would have been fired somewhere else. I don't know. The situation, like, objectively is bad for Fields. And obviously, we've mentioned the situation is bad for a lot of these guys. But the Bears are a disaster basically top to bottom. And I think that's obviously affecting. his play over the last couple of years too. So I don't know.

The coaching, the roster, just the direction. Yeah, it's tough. Okay. This one I openly admit I might be wrong. I have number eight worst quarterback in the NFL is probably too high or too low, whatever. I have Sam Howell quarterback for Washington. I'm not going to lie. I know Sam Howell is probably worse than some of the people I put him on.

But I just kept thinking every time I try to move Sam Howell like higher on this list than eight, I was just like, but I watched with my own eyes and like lead a comeback against the Philadelphia Eagles. Like, he took them to overtime. Like, they could have right there gone for the two-point. I'm like, he's going to make this. Like, I kept thinking about it. If I actually had to win a game this week, and I'm like, dude, same how I'll have to come back in the Broncos,

which looks less and less impressive every week. I get that. But, Craig, you're nodding him. So am I not crazy? I had him ninth, as in the ninth worst. So right near you. Here's the dividends, I think, with Howell, from like a tools standpoint,

I don't think he's that different from any of these guys. Like, I don't think he's particularly better at throwing or running. than Fields or Jordan Love or anything like that. But I think there's like a mental aspect to Sam Howell. There's a Dion waitersness to him where when he's on the field, I think he thinks he's the best quarterback on the field. And that matters in the NFL. Yes, he has that like kind of unpredictable clutch sheet in him

where he's like, I can make any throw. And sometimes he does. He plays like Mahomes kind of. Like a much less talented physically Mahomes. Yeah, yeah, he thinks he's Mahomes, just not Mahomes' body. I'll say the one thing. And obviously, I mentioned the fatal flaw for Justin Fields. His processing is too slow.

With Sam Howell, similar style of just taking way too many sacks. If you look at a sack as essentially a drive killer, a, aka a turnover, it's not quite a turnover because you're not giving him the field position that you get there. But it's bad. Like, taking sacks is not good. It's very, very hard to run a good offense if you're taking a million sacks. He's on pace for like over 100 sacks.

It's absolutely ludicrous. The record. Yeah. Yeah, he would be, he's on pace to set the NFL record for most sacks taken in his season. So shatter it. This is, this is potentially his fatal flaw. I think it's not something we can just hand wave because I don't know. Like, for some reason, he just refuses to feed his good players, which is the antithesis of what I think a good quarterback does.

Like, if you look at the- The Target race. Now you're doing the fantasy football thing. Like, he doesn't throw the ball to Dotson, so I'm mad. But it's also, but like throw the ball to your good players. Like, they'll do a good job for you. I actually think it's a bad thing that he doesn't like. focus in on giving the ball to his good players.

This is why he's taking a billion sacks. Like, give the ball to your good players, man. Do yourself a favor. He's the only quarterback on this list that, like, I mean, he had a legitimate fourth quarter touchdown drive against the Philadelphia Eagles. Like, I guess Josh Jobs against the Cowboys is the only other quarterback you can really say

did something that impressive. Beat a good team. Yeah, I think it's funny, Dickie, you said fatal flaw for Sam Howell because 100 sacks actually might be fatal. All right, this is the money. This is why people came. People are shocked that this name has not come up yet.

I have Kenny Pickett and Daniel Jones back to back at 9 and 10. We could just set the time at 4 minutes for God's sake. We just talk about them together. But Kenny Pickett, I kept thinking about this. And I'm not sure Kenny Pickett's good. I don't think he's like a long-term quarter. I don't think he'll ever be like above average, honestly, as a quarterback. But I kept coming back to this, whether it's Matt Candidate's fault or Mike Tomlin's

fault or the way the Steelers have built this offensive line for whatever. The Steelers' offense is. is horrific and atrocious. And I kept thinking like, who could succeed. Like, none of the players are open. None of the routes make sense.

I'm like, and I kept thinking how many coordinators would use George Pickens this way? And so I was like, I don't know. Like, we were texting with Bill, Craig,

where it's like, Kenny Pickett has won many games when he got the chance at the end. And I'm like, I don't know, what if Kenny Pickett was on the Packers? Or never mind the Niners. This is what I kept thinking about.

Is it your shock? You wouldn't, Where did you have Kenny Pickett, Craig? You're the Steelers fan. Sixth. You have a ninth item at sixth. Look, I think I'm being a little bit of a Debbie Downer just because I'm, the offense is so putrid right now.

But I think the reason why that there's this like clutch Kenny Pickett narrative going on right now is it's not because he's that clutch, although he does play well in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. It's a great quality to have. I'm not upset about it. But I think it's because Matt Canada has to call plays that actually push the ball down the field when it's the fourth quarter and they're down five and they can't just dink and dunk their way to a punt. And I think that's why Kenny Pickett's been better is because the play calling

is actually conducive to progressing the ball down the field. It's a normal offense. But what's interesting about this is I think everybody is still has this weird thing with Pickett where they're still kind of in on him and they don't really know why. And it's pretty impressive considering the fact that if we ranked all these offensive coordinators, Matt Canada would be dead last. And the fact that you have Pickett 9th, And Canada first is impressive. That's why I put him here. And also the one of the game winning drives is that means you're losing all the time.

True, very true. But I mean, it's not like the defense. I mean, yeah, it's just because we don't score any points. Kenny Pickett's clutch in the fourth quarter. But that game winning touchdown he scores usually gets the Steelers to like 14 points. TK, where are you out on Pickett? Yeah, I think Pickett is better than he has played. I know that's like hard to prove.

And, you know, it's impossible to prove honestly at this point. But to me, he feels like his skill set. and his traits are better than what we've seen in the NFL. A lot of it is due to, I think, the system and the scheme and what they're asking him to do. Also, by the way, he's had an all-time terrible run of defenses that he's had to go against in his career, which is just like not, it's just bad luck. He's had to play a whole bunch of extremely, extremely good defenses. We need to get him a few, like, you know, early season college football games where he can just get,

like, confidence and run up the score and all that. Craig, you mentioned it, like, he's better in the fourth quarter. He's also much better when it's, like, the two-minute drill and he can just speed things. up. He's not trying to like, you know, run the technical offense. He can just kind of go out there and play. This is the same thing we're seeing with like Justin Fields where when you take out some of the mental aspect of a, he can just throw the football around. He's much better. Also, by the way, one last plug for throwing it to your good players. It's weird how the, how the Steelers' offense is so much better when they throw it to, uh, to Pickens. Maybe they maybe do that more.

I don't know. Just a thought. Let let your playmakers go make plays. That's all I'm saying. We talked a lot about Kenny Pickett's like first eight games as a starter. We're like the eight of the ten worst defenses. And then this season started with the Niners and the Browns and the Ravens. I will say that the 10 best defense. But then the Texans, worst defenses to face him in. But then the Texans, they scored six points. Yeah, but the Texas defense, I think, is quietly pretty good too.

Yeah, but Ritter had his best game of his career against the Texans this week. Maybe Ritter's good. I don't know. Also, there's nobody for Pickett to throw to right now. He had no Fryeermuth, no Deontay Johnson. Yeah, he has Pickens who's good. But like they can't run the ball. It's not exactly easy for him right now.

The offensive line is a mess. And yet still, I think, D.K., where did you have him on your list? Pick it. I had him kind of, I think six, right, where you had him. Six or seventh. And I'm like, and by the way, I'm kind of like manually adjusting as we go here. Like, I'm starting to, like, get a better feel for this list anyway as we go through it. And I honestly, I'm like more optimistic on Pickett than a lot of these other guys.

Long term. All right. I guess maybe long term. But in like next week. on the Steelers. If you removed him from that Canada, sure. But let's go to 10 here because I want to talk about Daniel Jones. Heifers, you're mad about this, right?

Yeah, I put Daniel Jones 10. And I thought I was being a homer and I was like, no, I don't care. Daniel Jones is the 10th best quarterback in this list. I haven't met 10 as well. Put him in a neutral situation. Dicke, you had him, what, second? You said? No, no, no, not second.

I just had him much higher than this. I have him at 7th. As in much worse. Sorry, I think he's worse than the 10th. I think he should be higher on this list. obviously confusing, but I think what he's done this year is absolutely terrible. And then when you combine that, what he's done

basically his entire career, he's never been good. I don't understand why he's not higher on this list. What is he done to prove to you other than getting a big contract and running around a lot? They made the playoffs last year and then he won a playoff game and he shred it. What did he do last year? That was so impressive. He ran

a lot. He threw like 15 touchdowns. It was like one of the worst in the NFL. And now he can't throw any touchdowns to save his life. He was good last year. He was like Josh Jobs good last year. Last year the Giants were down so many offensive linemen and then also his number one receiver. The Giants lost their top four passing options by like September 10th. And then they look, okay, let me, how many yards did he throw against the Vikings of the playoffs? Like 350. I know the Vikings defense is bad, but I'm just saying, I will say this.

I am not about to sit on that game, but that game is passing wise. Overall, that game is probably as good as any of these other guys in this list have had in their entire career in the NFL. I agree. I've seen it. I've seen it on the big. stage with Jones, and that's what it is. Okay. Maybe honestly, like, maybe just this is an eye test thing. I just have never really thought he's good. If you look at his stats this year, two passing touchdowns, dead last, six interceptions,

second worst, dead last in pass rating, second to last in EPA per dropback, dead last and sack rate, dead last in net yards per attempt. I am not arguing any of those things. He's dead last in everything that matters statistically. It does not matter. It does not matter. The conversation is not. What if you needed the Giants offense to win you a game this weekend?

It's Daniel Jones. Here's the reality. The Giants, right now, their best players are hurt and their worst players are healthy. Sequin is out. Being replaced by Matt Breda. Their left tackle, Andrew Thomas, is the old pro, is replaced by Josh Azudu. Of PFF grades, if you look at pro football-focused grades, out of 65 tackles, Josh Azudu is dead last.

If you look at right, you know who's second to last? Evan Neal. The other tackle. They have the worst two tackles. in the NFL and their center got hurt. The backup center is the second worst center by PFF grade. They have the worst two tackles and the worst center playing for them. And then Darius Slayton, who they wanted to cut last year is the starting receiver.

And their other receivers, Isaiah Hodgson, who's a practice squad for the bills. There are not many NFL caliber players on this team. So yeah, his last one of those categories. Is that actually Daniel Jones's fault? You're going to make this excuse for him for the last, the four seasons prior to that, too, then, I guess, because he was never good in any of those seasons either. How is this different than Kenny Pickett? Like, why is Kenny Pickett better than Daniel Jones when we've seen Daniel Jones have a really productive season, win a playoff game,

and he's on a terrible offense with a miserable O-line? I think honestly, I think the difference is like Daniel Jones has been bad for longer. Like, to me, he's like the biggest, the worst turnover machine in the NFL of the last five seasons. That's not true. That's not true anymore. Who's worse? No, it's not. There must be someone else.

No, it's not. Daniel Jones, no, he was James Winston asked his first three seasons. but that is wrong because I said it for a long time. Last year he's better. Last year he had the lowest interception rate in the entire NFL. It's because he wasn't throwing barely. He's just running around. Okay, but he literally had the fewest,

literally fewer picks per throws than anyone in the league last year. So I'm just, I can't believe I'm in this spot, but we're not talking about whether he's a franchise quarterback. We're not talking about whether he'd be elite. I'm just saying, like, if we're doing this thing of separating the quarterback from the situation, I guess here's my question. How many situations in the NFL are worse than what the Giants are dealing with right now against the Dolphins that week.

They literally have four backup linemen. And then also the receiving course, bottom five in the league entering the year, they're only good players for Sequin. And then Darren Waller. Now, Darren Waler's got a chip because they lost their other tight end. They didn't have a healthy tight end

other than Waller anyway, basically. So it's like there's not much, how many players on this league should start in the Giants offense should start in the NFL? I think it's two. I understand all that. I just think, I don't know.

Jones and Waller. There's none of their starter in the NFL. I feel like this is this fifth season. It's like he's always been the same guy. I don't know. But you hate him. That's why you're saying. You just hate him personally.

I don't hate him. I just said he's dead last in every fucking category. You've always hated Daniel Jones. What do you want me to say? He's dead last in every statistical objective category. What do you want me to say? Why do I need to make some excuse that he's like good? God.

Pickett's dead last in success rate. He's dead last and off target rate. That's picket. And like we're like, I don't know. I think there's not a big difference between Pickett and Joe. Here's the thing. I think that's fair.

If you invert all those stats you're talking about for Daniel Jones, who leads them on. That is the best. Brock Purdy. No, I'm saying Brock Purdy's first in all those categories. So it's like,

isn't that the exact opposite? D.K. If Daniel Jones was on the Niners, you don't think he could be productive? I don't know. I don't have a strong faith that he would be. No.

See, I think he'd be fine. I think he'd be fine as well. I think he'd be doing 80% of what Brock Party. If you're the one who talked for the first three years of his career that you're worried about him crossing the street because he just has blinders.

I agree. And also Jason Garrett was his coordinator. And then I don't, I don't, the blind leading the blind across the street. This is wild to me that I'm like the villain for saying that Daniel Jones isn't good. I don't know. I'm just mad because people are like blaming Daniel Jones. No, they're all bad.

They're the worst quarterbacks. He's on the list. Craig, that's a fair point. Where should Brock Purdy be on this list? Brock Purdy? If we put Brock Purdy on the Giants, what would happen? That's, that would be an interesting thing to see. Mind you, the Giants only scores this season have been when Daniel Jones ran for first downs.

There was not, I don't know how many scoring drives. the Giants have all year with Daniel Jones didn't pick up first down with his legs. I have a specific Brock Purdy analogy to describe how I feel about him. Hyfitz and D.K., have either of you ever played Super Smash Brothers.

I'm sure you have Hyphids. Yeah. I have way long time ago, so... But I'll see if I can remember. Brock Purdy is like your friend who's really, really good with one character on a specific map at Super Smash Brothers.

Like, if they have Samus and they're playing at Hyrule Temple, they're unstoppable. But if you play anywhere else, they're just kind of a normal guy. Or if you take their character, if someone else takes their character, they get really mad.

Yes. But when they're playing at high role and their Samus, they know which ledges to jump on. It perfectly fits Samus's little power ball. And it's perfect. And they're unstoppable. And they know all the little tricks to win.

However, anywhere else, they've just immediately like, turned back into a pumpkin and they're just a normal player. So what does that mean? Does that mean your friend is the best Super Smash Bros. player in the world or what?

I don't know. I don't know. Let's do a, let's do this for older millennials and whatever. The Bond, you remember the Bond, the original 007 Bond game on Nintendo? Like I dominated on that game with the grenade launcher and, or the rocket launcher, sorry. And I was sucked at everything else. So I think that this analogy works like, it's like when you play Halo and you had the rocket launcher and Halo and you're.

planning as your friends. You're like, well, that guy's going to win this round. And it's like, it's literally impossible to judge Brock Purdy because he's doing everything perfectly and he's playing extremely well and I don't deny he's good. Maybe he's Tom Brady, honestly, where everyone's just giving it to the scheme. I don't know. But it's impossible to know how he would be if he was on the Steelers.

We have no idea and we will never know. He's purgatory. He's Schrodinger's quarterback. Makes for good content, right guys? Schrodinger's quarterback is really good. All right. are the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. I love how Daniel Jones

was the flashpoint. Who's the honorable mention? Is it, is it Tanna Hill? Is it Baker Mayfield? I think it's Baker. I think Baker's been good. He's been fine. He has been fine. That's what's been tough. Tanna Hill's been terrible. Which is kind of surprising because I usually like Tanna Hill. Again, that's the situation. The Titans,

who's on the Titans? Like, their best offense line of Peter Skoronski. DeAnd Andrew Hopkins and Derek Henry. Peter Skoronsky is their best linemen. Appendix exploded. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they have nothing going on. Baker and Jimmy, even though I don't hate Jimmy.

Jimmy, yeah, Jimmy G. Leads the NFL and interceptions. So. The way Jimmy Gropolo's curls up for a sack is different, and I think more embarrassing than the way all the other quarterbacks do it. It does feel like he is one of the most injured human beings on the planet, though. Like, I think Jimmy Garapolo has, like, 15 injuries at all times. That guys are ragdoll out there.

If Garoppolo is ugly, there's no chance he ever would have been in a NFL quarterback, like zero. I'm very interested to see what happens with Devante Adams. It's good that they won because I feel like Devante Adams is going to force his way out of there. If they're not good enough. Yeah. Just as time goes on and we see that this team is just not good, he's going to ask for a trade. He's going to force trade. What about Justin Jefferson?

Another one. He's going on the IR today, I think. I think the Viking, again, we talked about this two weeks. go and it didn't make sense then. I seriously do think the Jets trade for Kirk Cousins. I just do it. That would be fun. Get any other quarterback on that. He's so Jetsy. On the Jets, yeah.

I think it'd be fine. And then the Vikings can go and get a quarterback, and then you've re-sign Justin Jefferson and you're like, hey, look, we have Drake Bay. That'd be cool. All right. You guys want to do some emails? Emails. All right. This is a fantasy court baby. Ooh. All right. No jacklings today. question about, all right, there's a trade offer that was sent on a Saturday,

and this is an ESPN league, so you get 48 hours for the trade expires. The offer was George Kittle and Jamar Chase for Jonathan Taylor. Whoops. So anyway, at 6 p.m., I don't know what time's then. The offer was George Kittle and Jamar Chase for Jonathan Taylor? Wow. Yeah. So at 6 p.m., Jamar Chase catches his second touchdown of the day.

The commissioner, who has offered the trade, accepts the trade. And the group chat goes nuts. including the guy who made the trade offer saying you can't accept a trade in the middle of a game. Longster short, lots of arguing. You can imagine, et cetera, et cetera, group chat, league veto, blah, blah, blah. And the person emailing is saying, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I didn't even make this trade, but it's on the person to rescind the trade. Like, you left the trade offer hanging.

And it's not like anyone got hurt either. So how do you guys feel is this fair game? I think that as the person sending the trade request, right before the game start, if a trade has not been reached, if a deal has not been reached, you rescind the offer at least temporarily. And it's on you to do that. This is fair game. This is fair game because it's...

So I think in a previous fantasy court, we've said that accepting a trade midgame when a guy gets hurt is like whack. It's not good. Like, that's immoral or whatever. Like, this is not the spirit of the rules. But if you're accepting a trade because the guys you're getting are playing well,

like this is the part of... This is fantasy. Like sometimes you have to give up good players to get good players. And that's like, what he have said this, if Jonathan Taylor was, this is to me the answer. If Jonathan Taylor had ran for 230 yards in the first three goals. No, of course not. And then the guy was like, yeah, I'll trade Jonathan Taylor to you. The guy would never have been like, you give him a trade in the middle of the game.

You can't do it. The guys I'm giving up played well. We got to veto the trade. You never would have been upset if Jamar Chase and George was catchless and Jonathan said it was great. And the guy you're giving it's only because it went against you. Yeah, this is just. remorse for making a bad trade.

Which is 100% why. Pull your trade before game start. Otherwise, you're screwed and you have to go through with it. I'm glad you guys did this because shout out to Dan Comer who's in the ring of fantasy football league. I did the same thing in the ringer fantasy football league where he offered me a trade with Nico Collins and then Nico Collins at like 150 yards. I'm going to take this. So, yeah.

All right. Emails. Got a bunch of emails here. All right. Craig, you didn't miss a lot, but a couple of things happened where you're gone. I don't know if you're listening to any episodes, but we got into a thing with,

there's a Nether Notre Dame, Notre Dame College, and Frostburg State anyway. It's from Ali. Ollie. Ollie said, I just wanted to point this out that on the end of the latest episode, Heifitz looked up Notre Dame College's opponent

and saw Frostburg State. And then later on in the episode, Hyfitz looked up Frostburg State's schedule. It was in awe. We saw that they played Notre Dame College. I noticed this, by the way. clock that. I noticed this in the moment

and I just didn't want to be a dick. I noticed it too. I was like, isn't that why we know Frostburg State because of Notre Dame College? It's like, he is so like cute. It was almost endearing that he had two separate like hilarious moments, even though he was

basically reading the same list. It was like a little feedback loop. He's like, oh look, Frostburg State. Oh, look. Notre Dame College. Oh, look. Frostburg State. Yeah. I did notice that in the moment, Ollie. I just didn't want to... I was just trying to let hyphids have his moment there.

Yeah, as soon as I read that, I was like, oh my God, I did do that. All right. Next up here, all right. The whole airline Wi-Fi thing. Are we getting into this again? Well, Craig actually went on a vacation. So Craig actually ironically used the Wi-Fi.

Should I read this? I want to read this email. This from J-T. I feel like this will summarize a lot of you guys's feelings. J-T. By the way, should we read the results? Did you guys get into that?

I don't think he did. I don't think he did. I haven't heard them. If it's missed that, he forgot about it. The question, do you feel betrayed when airplane Wi-Fi dies? The two options were, yes, it's 2023. And no, Sky Wi-Fi is hard. The answer, yes, it's 2023, won 62% to 37%.

I will say this. We've got a lot of feedback, including this email I'm about to read. I'm not saying that if you paid for the Wi-Fi, you should just be like, oh, it doesn't work, and that sucks. that's not what I'm saying. Let it be known that you crafted that question and you wrote the poll. I was going to say, I actually was going to ask you guys, who wrote this actual poll? Because it's clearly not the argument. I had an original idea of what the poll should be.

And Hyphen said no. I agree. I agree. The straw man. The poll I have watched. But I'm just saying a lot of people have emailed in being like, oh, you can, I'm like, no, if you paid 20 bucks for Wi-Fi and it breaks, you should get the money back. But that's, maybe that's the best we could say. You should get the money back.

Well, obviously you should get the money back, but it's still annoying. It's still annoying that they offer services that don't work. That's what I'm saying. I think, yeah, because a lot of people were like sending us the Louis CK bit where it's like, it's got to go to space. Give it a set of it. That was eight years ago. That was almost a fucking decade ago.

Do we presidents ago? Should we not expect any sort of technological progress in our lifetime? There's a Tesla currently orbiting space. Get out of here. We have elected vehicles now. You can plug your car into the wall. Anyway, Craig, we should just be happy. We should just be happy that we have a roof over our heads.

JT literally, so, okay, JT, I'm going to read this because I think it'll. I need Craig to come back because the airline discussion is truly insane. Highfitz wants you to believe that we should be astounded that we're flying through the sky, yet we should not be afraid of it. To be afraid of flying is silly. Actually, this is an excellent point. Great point. I'm fair.

I'm reading. This is shredding me. Yeah, that's true. Props. The technological advance was so incredible, but we are so diluted and desensitized as a society to recognize that our quibbles are mere Wi-Fi champagne problems. And yet, a broken charging outlet is simply unacceptable. It says Daniel Haifitz, your positions are inconsistent and difficult to understand.

Craig is a man of the people. And even though you consistently ignored that Craig did prepare for the situation, you would not relent from this inane and confusing perch. Craig pays for service and expects that service to be provided. That is capitalism. that is America. It's called Keeping Your Word. All held Craig, a man who's heard of music before 2004

and respects the power of the American dollar. And God bless Danny Kelly, a father, historian, and an adult. Oh, my God. Wow. Did my mom write this email? I was going to say, did you write this on the plane, Craig, and send it? I'm going to get this guy on the payroll to help me argue with hyphids. Because I find it, this is like encapsulating my frustration with arguing with

high fits where he's just constantly moving the fucking like goldpillar. Constance. It's like arguing with someone who's not listening to you, which is what Lucas is saying here. Sorry, who's saying this? Who's this from JT? You weren't listening. It's okay. Jonathan Taylor, thank you. Perfectly summarized my frustration. So thank you for that. Also, you should be a speech writer. He should be a speech writer if he's not. He should. With that said, I did fly this weekend in Mexico and I took JetBlue. It worked perfectly. Well, it didn't break. I'll tell you, I flew JetBlue. I know it's no free ads, but I actually believe in free ads.

I think you should just shout out companies you like. On the way there, it was an incredible experience. The TV situation was beautiful. It has the best user interface. Wi-Fi work like a charm. I had multiple devices going. I was working on the plane. I was responding to emails.

It was amazing. They had new movies. You could watch like Indiana Jones, all this great stuff. On the way back, as it was the day before the flight, I think, or maybe the morning of, we get an email from JetBlue saying, we're so sorry. the Wi-Fi will be down on the flight. However, you can still watch movies on the screen. I've never heard of this.

This is unheard of service. But please, if you need to, download, you know, movies, books, whatever that you will want. And I was like, first of all, classy-ass move, JetBlue. I love that. That's what you should do. So even when their system doesn't work, you can prepare for it. And their TV still did work. So you can watch live TV on the place.

The genesis of this argument, Craig, was I was flying over to Europe and like an hour into a nine and a half hour flight, the internet and everything, all the charging outlets went out. And at the end of the flight, they're like, sorry about that. We couldn't restart it without our bad. And in the flight attendant was like, we'll email you about it, about a potential like refund or something. And I didn't hear, I didn't get a fucking email from anybody. I didn't hear from, I didn't hear from the airline again. As far as I'm concerned, or as far as they're concerned, I'm gone. You know, so I, I applaud JetBlue for that. When we, yeah, shouts out Chip-Loo, but when we, when Spotify flew us to Stockholm, the flight there and back,

well, you know, I think it was like my flight there was to Paris and the flight back was from London, you know, nine, 10-hour flights from California. Just, just nothing. No Wi-Fi, no internet for 10 hours. And I'm like, what are we doing? You know what I mean? What are we doing? Do you want customers to be happy? Figure it out. Yeah. No, they don't really care. That's also capitalism. Jam as many people They don't care about you Yeah

Make them operate the emergency doors Who cares? Did you see that thing This is the funniest take you This is the thing where they were piloted They were testing the thing of We're having like stadium seating in planes Were there like several layers?

Oh yes I have seen that Where it's like right up against you I have seen that The worst idea Wait I don't understand that how would that work? You're like staggered so like your legs would go under It's like someone sitting on your lap almost It's how we ate in Stockholm.

It's how we did, it's how we had dinner in at the meatball place. The plane's not tall enough. Would it be like a, like a, it would be for bigger planes? Like like two story planes or something? Yeah, I flew on a triple seven on the way to Europe. And the ceiling height, it's like a 10 foot tall ceiling. I'm like, what is it? You guys are wasting so much space in here.

It's like you cramming a stand on. So much room for activities. Seriously, we need bunk beds in this freaking plane. Why don't we have bunk beds? The plane CEOs, walking and just being like, we could get, you just have people up in the space. Just how to get twice. Did I just hear a power tool?

He does not know how to use power tool. Wow, that's interesting. Statium seating for a plane. Yeah, but it would suck. That'd be awful. Don't do it. Imagine, and the Wi-Fi doesn't work. What are you going to do?

Read books for 10 hours. Read a book, Craig. Stare at the back of the seat in front of you. You know what else I don't get while we're at it? You can download movies and things on your, on your tablets and your phones. You can't do it on a computer. And I'm sure there's a very real simple reason, but I never understood why. I must be like a piracy thing or I don't know what, but you can't download a TV show off like Netflix on your computer,

but you can on like an iPad or a tablet or a phone. Yeah, I think it's piracy related. It has to be. I have no opinion on this. I don't actually know if it's true that you can't download anything onto your computer. You can't. Well, not anything. He's not like nothing could be downloaded.

He meant like Netflix, like you can't download it. Netflix doesn't allow you to do that. Okay. I see. No, like, you could rent a movie on Amazon Prime or Apple or something and watch it on the plane without Internet. But, eh, I actually don't know that. Do you need the Internet?

It doesn't matter. Let's move on. I got an email from Sean. Seanie. When I was in middle school, I really wanted to be a radio DJ. So I found an online radio station that would appease a middle schooler by letting him DJ from his Winamp app for an hour on weekends. during my first show

I was getting a lot of requests coming in over AIM. This is like speaking my language. This guy's exactly 41 years old, I think. A lot of requests coming over A A lot of requests were for a song by Hanson that I did not have. And so I did what we all did.

And I went straight to Limewire and I got the song and I played the Hanson song. And it turns out the song was unreleased and the online radio station and I both got a cease and desist notice from Hansen's lawyers. Wow. To the point where I'm wondering if the IMs were part of a complicated scheme by their legal

team, which is probably entrapment, but it was in eighth grade. Oh, man. And then once I convinced my parents, we weren't going to lose our house. All was well. But that radio show was a one and done adventure and I'll never listen to Mbop or drink their damn beer ever again. Mbop. Mbop.

Mbop. Mbop. I'm more shocked that there was another Hanson song that people wanted to hear. Also, how did they want to hear it if it was unreleased? Limewire. So it was Limewire people asking for somebody to play the song on the radio? We probably told his friends he was DJing and they were like, oh, what should you play? And it was like, play this.

Well, who uploaded it to LimeWire is the question. I'm guessing. So I'm doing some, I'm doing educated guessing here. He said he had AIM in middle school. This guy's probably four years younger than me. I think he's 37. If you can email us and let us know how old you are, that'd be great. He just like the Sherlock Holmes for people who had like a forensic

forensic investigation of your age based on your pop culture references here. He had lime wire. I never used lime wire. Lime for me was freshman year in college. AIM was freshman year in college or sophomore year of college. So I think this guy's about four years younger to me. I mean, we used AIM.

I always called it AIM not AIM. But Hyvitz and I used that. Did you use lime wire? I never used limewy. tail end. I mean, we're for Spotify, so maybe we'll be fired, but yeah, no. I don't think the statute, statute of limitations is up, right. If LimeWire didn't exist, Spotify might not exist.

That's true. No, it's true. LimeWire, and then also LimeWire died, which was a crazy day. And then FrostWire was a thing for a little bit. Oh, yes, that's the other one. Yeah. Yeah, they just let us, like, steal the music. They really needed to fix that.

You know, the person who invented Frostwire, you know where he went to college? Frostburg. Frostbric State Do you know who they played? Notre Dame College Craig or hyphus, look it up. You'll be delighted to know. Yeah, we should probably go.

Hold on. We need to talk about being down bad. Oh, yeah. Because I have a quibble with the kind person who emailed in and said I'm using it wrongly because it means horny. And I'm talking about how teams and players are down bad.

All these quarterbacks are down bad. I was like, I don't know. That's not how anyone I talk to uses it. Maybe I'm just like an old fogey. I had several people in their 20s email me or text me saying the guy that emailed in was wrong. That's not how they use it either. They use it the same way I use it, which is essentially just, I say down atrocious a lot

times, which just means like you've never been at a lower point in your life. Like you are down bad. You're down. ATL. Down in the dumps. Yeah. And he, and he, and one person in particular, East and Freeze said his little brother, who's 17, wanted to confirm for all the high school kids out there. That's how they use it too.

So urban dictionary's wrong is what I'm saying. Or maybe there's just multiple ways to use it. I've only heard it use in the context of being kind of extremely horny for someone or something. That's fair. I'm accepting of the idea that it's used in multiple ways. But I, look, I had never, you said maybe I'm an old fogey and I've never heard that. So maybe I can't contribute to this. You've never heard of old fogey?

What is it old fogey? Foki or gey? I don't even know what you're saying. I don't know. Hold on. Let me look this up. No. Google.

Person typically an old one who's considered to be old fashioned and conservative. You're using an old word to describe an old person is old. I'm old. I know you're so old. You don't even know the word for old people. You're too old. Fogie. Yeah, it is an old term.

High Fitz. What do you want me to do about it? I figured. Otherwise, I would have heard of it. That wasn't the question. It doesn't mean horny, all right? Fogie does not. An old foggy could be a horny person, actually.

You're down foggy. This is your corn cop moment, D.K., you're just like, don't put it in the newspaper. Don't put it in the newspaper that I was using down bad wrong. I was right. Sort of. All right, let's get out of here. Let's leave.

Thank you, Craig. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Carlos, for producing this episode. Thank you everyone behind the scenes. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you, Kier. Thank you, Lord. Thank you.

Modest Mouse. Mottis Mouse. I'm trying to think of the LimeWire days. Oh, yeah, float on. Wait, do you remember that person who emailed us and saying, like, he just got all his music on LimeWire and everything, but all the artists were in the title of the song? Feet.

So, like, he just thought Feet was like the DJ for every good song. Featuring. Feet guy, whatever happened in? He went to college and was like, whatever happened of Feet? I like that. It's a good story. just trying to make sure that Fogie is not like a bad term to be using in conversation. By the way, peek behind the curtain.

Podcasting is just saying a word and then making sure it's not, doesn't have any negative connotation you don't know about. The word comes from the Scottish Fogie and it originally meant an army veteran. Oh, wow. Fogie. F-O-G-I-E? How do you spell it? There's multiple ways to spell it here.

I'm seeing F-O-G-E-Y, F-G-Y. F-G-Y. F-G-E-E-E. I-E-S, old fogies. I'm going to text my dad and say, what's up, old foggy? And we'll see what he says. I feel like it's my generation is going to know it. He might not know that term.

We're calling your dad's generation old fogies. Okay. So you think foggy came into the lexicon as you are kind of coming up in the world? That's a good question. How much further is Craig's dad from D-K really than D-K is from us? Hey, now. My dad is, no, he's twice as far. My dad is 62 and DK's 41.

Yeah, your dad is like the age of my dad almost. My dad's a few years older. My parents were super young when they had me. And years were older. So they were not fogies when they had you. My parents were 32? Yeah, because my parents were like 23 or 22 or something like that. They were really young.

Different times. I know. My parents had three kids by the time they were 25 years old. I had my first kid at 37 and I'm like, this is too hard. What are we doing? That reminds you the Bo Burnham line And that special Where he's like

When my grandfather was 27 He served in Vietnam And when I was 20 When I turned 27 I built a birdhouse with my mom Yeah Different generations All right goodbye everyone