The Ringer NFL Show - The Case for and Against the Best WRs and TEs in the NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

The guys take a look at every pass catcher in the 2025 NFL draft. DK and Heifetz make the arguments for and against each player, but the twist is that they don’t know which side they’re arguing until Craig flips a coin! They also discuss the Derek Carr injury and how that could affect the draft. Later, they talk about the Masters and get to some emails! (00:00) Intro (02:16) Derek Carr's injury (09:41) Travis Hunter (21:04) Tetairoa McMillan (26:48) Tyler Warren (33:54) Emeka Egbuka (39:09) Colston Loveland (46:39) Matthew Golden (52:45) Luther Burden III (58:51) Jaylin Noel (01:01:25) Jayden Higgins (01:05:44) Elic Ayomanor (01:08:43) Mason Taylor (01:13:53) Jack Bech (01:17:54) Harold Fannin Jr. (01:24:02) Masters (01:30:58) Emails! Check out our 2025 Ringer NFL Draft Guide here! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Kai Grady and Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify. or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast.

Let's go! The ringer NFL Draft show. My name is Danny Hyford today. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlebeck. And today we are going over the past catches in the 2025 NFL draft, wide receivers and tight ends the important ones that we think you should know. And we're going to go over comparisons. We're giving comps to them, high-end comps, low-en-coms,

but really we're doing this coin flip style where, again, Craig loves this one because the same way we did with the quarterbacks. D.K. and I are going to argue for and against a lot of these past. catch us, but we don't actually know which side of the argument we're going to be on yet. So we're assigned aside. That's right. In the moment, we're going to flip a coin. Let the world decide.

You have to make the case for this player tells. You make the case against. And I once again have my quarter. We will be supported by the lady of the quarter herself, Dr. Mary Edwards Walker, whom we, did we make any quarterback jokes last week? I feel like we missed a. No, that's a point of pride, though. Okay.

Just a joke. A worse pod would have led with a quarterback jokes. That was what I was going to say. say we're above that but a better plot would not have done the quarter thing low hanging fruits not our style yeah well probably probably would disagree with that anyway let's flip a coin to determine what we talk about yeah that's what we were saying yeah so we're going to go through and we're going to go through all these receivers and but first i do want to and also eat emails later we have emails on long con jokes people pulling their friends which have been very fun and keep sending those in email us in your take

purges we're doing the take purge later this week email us well we're going to post it next week but email your take purges in on anything. Draft your team last season, next season, whatever. Honestly, whatever you want, take purge it. But I want to get to news to start here that happened over the weekend.

I also want to talk masters of you guys later, but the other less important news of the weekend was that Derek Carr has this shoulder injury and might miss the season, which is just not the kind of news. You usually get a couple weeks before the draft. Is they're like, by the way, OTA is coming up and like, I don't know if Derek Carr is going to play.

So this is, I mean, the Saints are kind of locked into paying him basically 50 million bucks. Saints have the nice. Is there a way they can renegotiate his contract again right now? Dude, I don't know, but I got to tell you this. So I have a mock draft. You can always refinance. Yeah, exactly. I have a mock draft that is coming out on the NFL draft, Offender.com tomorrow, April 15th.

We're recording this Monday. And I, this happened while I was trying to give the Saints a player. And I was like, well, that seems like a really big sign to just give them Shitter Sanders as a quarterback. D-K, is that just too obvious to say that the Saints are the Shadur spot now? Like, is that too easy? It felt really easy. I mean, it's definitely a logical leap in terms of they need a quarterback. There's been some people that connected them to the Saints.

I think Dion Sanders said something like, oh, black and gold, love those colors, love those colors, kind of like winking and nodding at the screen. They are good colors. Well, they're also Colorado's colors, but they're also the Saints color. So, yeah, maybe stick in those colors and do it again. But I think the out of left field sort of fun thing that could happen here is instead of Shador, it's Jackson Dart. I was going to ask you, D.K., is nine too high, based on kind of the buzz lately going around about Shador, is nine too high for the Saints to draft him, even if this Derek car injury is serious? No. The Saints are not trading back, Craig.

The Saints will never trade back. What are you talking about? They'll probably try and trade up for one of these guys. It's like asking your grandfather to drink like some pumpkin ale or something. These draft picks, the extra draft picks they've gotten over the last year or two are just absolutely burning a fucking hole in their pocket. They cannot wait to get rid of these extra picks. They want to pick four times and that's it. Is there a less exciting?

Like, not only you hear like Derek Carr might not be ready for 2025. Like, I don't think I could care about a piece of current quarterback news less than that. And then them, because of that, taking Shador. at 9 is also like the least exciting draft pick to me. So it's like in both scenarios, the Saints are just as underwhelming as possible as a franchise. Well, that would also be the true full circle of what I've been saying this whole draft cycle that Shadur, sorry, Dion's going to pull and Archie Manning. And Archie Manning didn't want he let it play for a bad team because Archie Manning sucked

his whole career or he was great for the Saints who were the worst team in the NFL. So it'd be pretty funny if after all that, I was as wrong as possible and Shudder just ended up on the Saints who are like the weirdest worst team you could be on. But also, the Saints can't enter the season with just Spencer Rattler and Jake Hainer at quarterback. They could add someone. Joe Flacko signed with the Browns this week. But the flip side is. Kirk cousins.

Kirk. That's true. I think I can figure that out. But I guess my question, Dick Jackson Dart, is he like? At nine? Able to play in September of his rookie year? Is Jackson Dart?

Like, considering Ole Miss at this Lane Kiff and offense, like, which is really like the Briles offense, that doesn't strike me as a player of like, oh, yeah, Jackson Dart. He could play in the, even on a good. team. Like Jackson Dart playing, maybe I'm not right. Maybe I'm just have a wrong read here, but he doesn't strike me as someone who could play on a good team, never mind a bad team like the Saints. Well, the reason that you say that is because the offense that he played at Ole Miss where it's basically half field reads if that usually, you know, it's like defined

reads. He's getting the ball out quickly or defaulting to like running around. See open and throw open. And so there's a big projection here going from that type of offense where everybody's open. This is of course a gross exaggeration, but everybody's open. and you just throw it to the open guy to, you know, drop back passing game where he's going through progressions, having to read the defense, having to make plays with pressure in his face, all that stuff. I think this is why people are a little bit, you know, have cynicism or whatever, that dart is going to be a really good player in the NFL. That being said, I think the contrast between Shadur, who has like a really high floor,

but maybe not a very high ceiling, and Dart, who has a really low floor, in my opinion, because he might just not be able to read a defense. and he has a pretty high ceiling because I think, you know, or a higher ceiling because he's a better athlete. He can run around a little bit more. You know, his physical tools are a little bit better. So I don't know. I think both situations are,

it's not a good situation for any quarterback to be dropped into. So I wouldn't feel super confident about anybody going there. I feel like this is the offseason of desperation, really, I feel like. But all the chairs have like three legs and it might collapse when you sit down. Right. We almost glossed over the fact that the Steelers had Justin Fields in house benched him rather than give Justin Fields any run. And then the Jets gave him $20 million a year to be their starter, even though he couldn't beat out Russell Wilson in that job. And that's just, it's just, I feel like everything has felt like that.

But you're right that this is the epitome of it. I just, it's hard for me to, I know that Shadur is falling as a prospect or whatever. It's hard for me to believe that Shadur, that DART could go over Shardur at the ninth pick. If you want to convince me the same till trade back up to the end of the first round to get Jackson Dard, I could believe that. But am I crazy for thinking that Shadur at 9 is probably still a better player than Jackson Dart at 30? Oh, I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. It's just one of those situations where we're, whatever they do, whether they take Shadur at 9, they take Dart and they trade up for dart.

Gentie. Three years from now, we are going to look back on this as a disaster no matter what, it feels like. It's not going to work. Are the saints, if you are a quarterback coming into the league this year, are the saints of the last organization you want to join? Like, you'd rather join the Titans than the Saints right now, correct, right? Oh, yeah. Trajectory, yeah. Saints are dead last, right?

I think you'd rather be on the Browns, yeah. I also still think there's something, too, about New Orleans, just like this is the Zion thing, where Zion gained all the weight because he was in New Orleans and there's no bad food in New Orleans. You think it's too heavy? Out of Portland, Zion would be like the best player in the league. He'd be eating Kiedwan. Like, he'd be incredible diet. He's too much jumbalaya down there.

Well, that's what the Luca bet is, right? Luca's been going to Airwant for the last month. How does he look? Have we weighed him? That's true. No, really, yeah. There's no sweet tea in Los Angeles. He looks thick.

He looks thick, but I think he's goldbellying all of his favorite Dallas foods. Just setting Terry blacks to. Goldbelly's like a service that you can deliver food from all over the country from, like, famous restaurants. Oh, right. You use that for when you did the thing with house. Yeah. When you're that rich, like he is getting tax mex delivered to his house daily. Unbelievable.

Okay, so we'll see how that affects it. We'll talk more, I mean, again, the drafts, I mean, drafts next week, boys. Yeah. So, what the hell? Coming down to the wire here. So let's get into the receivers. Craig, you lay this out for us.

Sure. We're going to go through a bunch of wide receivers, pass catchers, and tight ends. I'm going to flip a coin. You guys have crafted arguments both for and against all of these players. You're only going to get to give one side of it based on this coin flip. It's whatever Mary Edwards Walker decides. doctor, whom we fully support other than her prohibitionist abuse. So we're going to start out here with the most famous player in this class, really, in the draft, I would say.

Travis Hunter out of Colorado, the hybrid, six foot, 188 pounds, turns 22 years old in May. He was the number one recruit nationally out of high school. He's been in college for three years. One year at Jackson State, he moved to Colorado with Chador and Dion. He won the Heisman trophy last year. Not sure if you knew that. He's the only player in college football history to win both the Bednarik and the Bulletinikov Awards. So best receiver, best defender.

Yeah. Don't know how. Is it Bednaric? Bednaric? I think it's Bednarc. At least I just ignore the, I just say Bednarc. And I know it's not a bednaric. Anyway, I'm not the pronunciation guy.

Okay. We're going to start out here with trying to try to try to try and about to flip this coin. We're going to start with Mr. Daniel, Daniel Kelly. All right. Do you prefer? I've never wanted the, I've never wanted the, I might just rig this so Hyvitz says tails, because I know he loves Travis. No, I've never wanted to talk up a player more than this, Travis.

Uh, D.K., do you want heads or tails? I remember, heads. I want heads. I want heads. All right. Someone's good. It is. So this is for D.K.

Hell yeah, it's heads, baby. No, no. This is good. This is good. All right. So, D.K., D.K., you tell me, why should I take Travis Hunter? Should I take him number one? overall. Tell me why I should consider doing that.

I mean, I think you should consider it. Sure. Why? He is the true definition of a generational player. You don't see a two-way player in the form of Travis Hunter very often, maybe once every 20, 25 years. And so first of all, he was, like you said, the former top recruit in the country, and he is a rare, rare athlete. That's the type of player who can go in and he's basically one of the best corners in this

draft, maybe the best corner in the draft, maybe the best corner in the draft, maybe the best receiver in the draft. He's the best player at two different positions. He played two different positions, all right? We don't see that very often, and he could do that in the NFL. Justin Jefferson is both a stylistic comp that I came up with early on watching him.

And then I've heard, in the analytical point of view, he also compares very favorably to Justin Jefferson. Justin Jefferson is his analytical and stylistic comp. I don't know if I really need to go further than that. Are you making that comp based on pro-Juston Jefferson or college Justin Jefferson? Jefferson. Would you have made that comparison with if college, I think, of just LSU, Justin Jefferson, who was what, like the 20th pick in the draft? Well, specifically, I'm referring to Joyne McFarland from my fantasy life.

He, who, one of his analytical hamps in the supermodel that he does is Justin Jefferson. And I'm like, okay, enough said for me, like, I'm sold. I believe that's comparing him to Justin Jefferson in college. But we saw what Justin Jefferson came, became in the NFL. I always compared Travis Hunter just the way he moves, his body control, his ability. to go up in the air, twist, contort, ball skills, the swagger that he plays with, the intelligence that he plays with. Of course, he's just one of the most freakish athletes we've seen. His conditioning is elite.

I'm only hearing you talk about him as a past catcher, though. If I'm taking him first overall, should I play him 100 snaps a game? I've actually been receiver-pilled. Maybe it's because I'm a fantasy guy. Actually, probably because I'm a fantasy guy. But I started out this whole process, and you can go back and listen to some of the pods

earlier on. I was like, basically, I don't think he should be a receiver and then moonlight at corner because that just, I don't know how that works really. But now I'm just like, whatever, play him at receiver and then put him in in certain situations at corner and you get the best of both worlds. I think he's going to want to be a receiver because receivers make more money. And it's more fun. It's sexier, all that stuff.

So I've become sort of receiver-pilled. I think he should be receiver. All right. Hi, Fitz. Why should I not be that into this Travis Hunter guy? D.K mentioned supermodel before. Yeah. I think Travis Sutter is kind of like a super model

where you fantasize about it. And let's be real. If you kind of got the opportunity, you wouldn't know what to do. You couldn't. So you're blaming the coaches? I think, yeah, no. I'm serious.

I love Travis Sunter. So you're saying that these coaches would be a two pump jump. Yes, 100. Like literally, yeah. What do you talk about after that? I think, and this isn't even me doing a bit. This is how I feel.

I love Travis Sanger. He's just really vapid. I think I'm more enthusiastic. You got a 4.0 by the way. Not only is he an amazing athlete and amazing football player. He also is like really driven and got a 4.0 in college. Well, I actually think I'm more enthusiastic about Travis Hunter than you are. And I will admit.

And I'll say this not just now when I'm arguing against him. Travis Hunter's not counting quarterbacks. Travis Hunter will be the most complicated to coach in like a hundred. Travis Hunter will be the most complicated player to coach in like a hundred years. Like I'm not even being hyperbolic. Like Travis Hunter. Because what meeting room does he go to? Yeah, well, it's like he's got to play both sides of the ball and you've got to take him so high that if you fuck it up, it's a huge problem.

He's not some fifth round experiment where you're going to just play him at fullback and defensive end and like, no one's going to notice if he just stops playing one. I'm like, no, if this doesn't work, you're the one who screwed him up. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's not going to be on him in the first few years. Also, you have to let him play both ways because he's not going to just be like, oh, be a receiver. Sure, coach. Like, no, Travis Hunter, if you heard him talk at the combine, we were there. He wants to play both.

He's going to play both. And in his mind, he's going to do it. So if you don't figure it out, it's going to be hard. And my pushback on DK, it's easy to say he'll play receiver. I love saying it. It's so easy. It's incredibly easy to say. I love saying it.

I don't know you say it. I'm just saying the reason people are saying cornerback as is to start is because you can't really just like walk onto the defense and play cornerback. Like there's too much going on. The reality, because again, offense acts, defense reacts. You have so little time to react that there's no like coach, like quite literally, you can practice with the defense and then you go on offense and they tell you what to do and they send you off from the sideline and that's what you're going to do.

On defense, they just, you know what I mean? Like someone goes in motion, they change and they got to be able to yell out like a word and the coverage is different now. Travis Hunter can't just, like he has to be in the meetings every single day to do that. So he has to be a cornerback. then your best receivers on the sideline, that's not going to work. So you have to come up with this whole new thing

to be like, okay, how are we going to get him involved on offense when he's not really in an NFL offensive meeting environment? I think he can handle it, but like the idea that just anyone can do this, like you need an organization. Like bad teams are not organized and you need an organization to do this.

I was just thinking this whole time, you sound like someone who's like, who's going to be able to use the, what's the goblet or whatever from infinity, the Infinity Stone's. Yeah, someone can pick up that hammer. You have to be powerful enough to, like, be able to hold that thing. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's like, the team that takes him has to be able to, like, withstand the fucking whatever nuclear power. My fear is the Cleveland Brown's going to pick up that hammer. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, what I'm hearing is, okay, first of all, I, that's valid. I think, you know, I'm hearing basically the team that takes him has to have a very good plan to utilize him to his, to his potential. So I think that's fair. I have nothing bad to say about Travis Hunter.

I do not contest D.K.'s comp. I mean, pick your LSU receiver. Matt Harmon's called him Odell Beckham. I know the Beckham. I don't contest that one bit. I am just saying this will be very complicated, and it's not going to be, oh, you're a great cornerback.

Let's put you in for five plays a game. It's not going to be that simple. We'll put you in it. He's going to want to do more and more and more, and you've got to figure it out. So simply put, D.K., is he a better wide receiver or a better cornerback? Receiver.

who is his comp for you as a corner? I know this is the receiver episode, but who's his cornerback comp? I did actually come up with a corner comp because I just said he's... He's just Justin Jefferson playing corner. What did I say? I think the comp is...

The comp is Dionne Sanders. The comp is Dionne Sanders and Justin Jefferson on either side of the ball. If I got the other end, my comp, I literally wrote, what if Justin Jefferson was also Patrick Certaine? Like, that's literally... You know what I mean?

Like, that's literally... I know what I mean? is bigger or whatever, but the point is, Patrick Sertain's already talking about playing receiver this season because of what this guy's doing. Is he? I agree with you. Patrick Souten got asked him a receiver.

He was like, that's a good idea. I should play receiver. I agree with you, Hyfitz, that the organization, it's really incumbent upon them to figure this out. But he can't play one side. You have to play him both sides. You have to play him on defense and on offense. And honestly, you probably should play him close to full time as a defender

and like half the snaps or more on offense. And again, I, literally do not contend. I would, again, I'll go further than D.K. He's not a once in a generation player. Travis Hunter is a once in a century player. He's literally, like, we've not seen someone like this since Jim Thorpe in like 1926. That is literally, like it's a once in a century athlete, but also, we don't have a lot of once in a century coaches coaching at the top of the draft. And so, you know, it's a supermodel. You know what? So, Hyvich, you didn't really make the case against him. I'm going to, I'm going to need you to do that. The

Well, I mean, I guess... It's complicated to coach him. The case against him is, it hasn't been... What he's trying to do is he's never been done in 100 years. And the case against him is I think that I have no doubt that Travis Hunter, if he committed full-time to receive her a cornerback, would be like, at the very least, really good. I don't... The case against Travis Hunter is he's not going to bend.

Like, Travis Hunter's going to play both for better or for worse. And I think part of him, like, because he's like, almost like adopted some. Like, Dion, he loves Dionne. they have a huge relationship. Travis Hunter will force his way to another team before he picks, in my opinion. I think Travis Hunter will not bend and wanting to play both sides.

So the case against him is, if he can't do it, he's not going to accept that. He's going to do it. And so I think that there is a chance that he just never adapts to the NFL level. Also, gets the shit kicked out of him.

He's under 85 pounds. The case against him is that he's going to have more wear and tear than any player that's played those positions ever because he's going to be playing so many snaps playing on both sides of football, more games than he's, used to more games in the NFL.

It's just a totally different piece the NFL is. Yes. And again, so he's six foot, 188 pounds. And he has a thin frame. He's not like a big guy. Right. I was trying to think about it. If he goes in the top three, second or third,

he might be the smallest player to ever get drafted in the top three. In terms of weight. I think it'd be the highest drafted cornerback ever and the highest drafted receiver in 30 years. And he's, yeah, he's 180. But in terms of weight, like how many guys in the top three have ever been under 190 pounds? we pretended Bryce Young wasn't.

Oh, yeah, right. Bryce Young. Yeah, Bryce. He's under 190? No, he's probably 190. He's like 200, I thought. Well, he lied about being 201. But he's probably,

he's probably 195, but you're right, he's probably the latest player. I mean, yeah, Bryce Young is like, he is the extreme outlier, though. Probably since before GMOs in the 50s. Like, it's probably,

you got to go to someone who was just eating, you know, when people were smaller, you know, what do you think about his floor? We'll move on in a second. But do you think, DK, where do you think his floor is higher? On offense or on defense, Travis Hunter. If he were to bust at one of the two positions, which is it?

Well, again, I think receiver. Which position will he bust? I think he's going to bust playing receiver. No, I think he's more likely. I think it's harder to predict what he would do at corner. I think he has a higher floor at receiver. All right, we'll move on. Next up, Ted McMillan out of Arizona.

Six four, two hundred nineteen pounds, just turned 22 years old. Yeah. Three years started Arizona. He was third in FBI. last year with 1,300 yards. He had 304 yards in a single game against New Mexico. Former volleyball player, apparently very good. There's a, there's a profile on him in ESPN. His high school coach said he could have had a shot at the U.S. men's national volleyball team had he continued to play, which is pretty cool. So we'll start, Hyvich. You can call this coin. What do you want?

I wish I could go back and have Travis on our 4-case. No, it's all right. I mean, I'd rather say T. Higgins. Sorry, Ted McMillan's good. Oh, a little slip up there. So what do you want? So you want the heads? All right. Yeah, heads. It is heads. So high fits.

Why should I stop overthinking with Ted and just draft him? Because Ted McMillan is quicker T. Higgins, but he plays receiver on a West Coast team and there's West Coast wide receiver bias, so no one cares. I love that. You know I believe in that. Okay, D.K. Why should I be skeptical with that? That's it. All right.

Well, there's more, but I mean, that's the opening argument. Okay, so the big question with him, I think, with Ted, is pure speed. He's not going to be the fastest guy, the most explosive player on the field. That's kind of been something you typically see the receivers taken as highly as we're expecting him to be going in the draft. Usually they have like four, four speed, super explosive type receivers. He's more of a possession guy. He's quick for a size, but he's not going to like get over the top of a defense very often. I think there's this tape that's gone around.

where he's talking about he doesn't watch tape, which is kind of like a character concern, things, like, why are you not watching tape? He's playing volleyball. Yeah, maybe. It's beautiful outside. He's watching volleyball tape. He doesn't, his route tree, I still think, is pretty limited.

He's going to have to develop that at the next level. He has short arms, even though he's tall. And, yeah, basically, the big question with Tevick-Millan is, is he a number one? I know that's kind of a vague question, but he might just be capped out at a number two at the next level. Is that worth a top-10 pick? It's funny because Hyvitz is calling,

him T. Higgins, who is a number two complimentary? And you're saying, is he a number two derogatory? Right. I think there's a chance that I mean, there's a chance he's better than Tegans because there's a lot of the same questions of Tiggins and Tet coming out. I mean, it's not exactly the same player, but I do think they're getting comp for

for similar reasons because I think that there's a chance that he's quicker. Like the other, you know, there's been comparisons to like Michael Pittman, Drake London guys who are like, oh, they're big, but like they're actually underneath receivers, possession kinds, like closer to like a Keenan Allen than maybe you would think with the size. I think there's a chance. I think there's a chance that Ted McMillan ends up being kind of both.

Like the same thing with T. Higgins, he doesn't necessarily take the top off. But when Tiggins goes down field, like, the catch radius is like absurd. But there's a chance he also has the underneath ability too. So I'm just, I'm a huge fan of Tett. I mean, also think about how good he was in Arizona. Think about when he actually watches film. How good he's done all, you know, he's made it dis far. This is like the Travis Hunter thing.

Wait until he's in practice meetings for receiver. Dude, I know. And also the other funny thing about Ted, I don't know if he talked about this, but his quarterback is just his boy. Like he's met this phrase. Like his best friend, yeah. Yeah, Noah Fafita. It's like middle school.

Eighth grade played volleyball together and there was his quarterback. And then he went to Arizona and Ted's like, I'll go to Arizona. And he's the best receiver in the history of the school. But like, I think Noah kind of tapped out like, you know, a little earlier on his potential in the journey than Tet did. So it was kind of like a bad offense at points because it was his friend. Yeah. And I, I almost. wonder if some of the questions around Ted are actually because his boy Noah is, he's okay.

It's not the finest. This is something that Nate brought up on his show, Football 301, that a lot of the Arizona offense and part of the reason people are kind of getting on Tet for not dogging it, but like not putting in 100% effort on every plays. Like you would see like three or four plays in a row where it's just a scramble drill. It's like they drop back fast and like, oh God, the quarterback's running again. He's like, God, damn it. Like I just ran my route.

Now I'm going to go freaking fine. had uncovered. Like, I think there was a element of frustration there with the offense, too, which, you know, you can always say, like, maybe he shouldn't have had that frustration or whatever. But I think there are a few question marks about, you know, just, yeah, that, exactly. So, but I mean, for me, I'm like breaking character here. If you look at the production, 1,400 yards, 10 touchdowns in 20203, 1,300 yards, 8 touchdowns last year. He averaged 108 yards a game, 110 yards, game in those two years, respectively. He, oh, this is from, Dane Bruegler. He led the FBS and combined receiving yards, first downs, and catches of 20 plus

yards over the last two years. I feel like we're just overthinking this. I think Ted is a classic, I think Ted is a classic victim of off-seasonitis where when you're actually just watching the games on Saturdays, you're like, this guy's awesome. And then the criticisms come when there's no football being played. Yeah. And he's maybe not the best tester. You start to talk yourself into stuff. And then he's going to get drafted by some team. And by week eight, he's going to be one of the best wide receivers in the league. And everyone's going to say, wow, we really overthought that. because he was a little slower than we thought. His arms aren't as long as we thought.

He's not as explosive as we thought. But then when you watch him in the game, he is clearly one of the best five receivers in college football. I agree with that. He's also number three in FBS in Miss Tackles Force. He runs after the catch. I think his shiftyness and his ability with the ball and his hands for his size is incredibly underrated and impressive.

But he's a fluid athlete. I really think a small part of it, not the whole thing. A small part is all the receiver prospects come from the SEC or Ohio State. almost all of them. And like, it's just weird to have, it's just, I don't know, just weird that Arizona has this guy. West Coast Bias. All right, moving on, tight end, Tyler Warren from Penn State.

Big boy, six, five and a half, 256 pounds, he'll be 23 years old next month. He's been in college for five years. He was a redshirt freshman, then he played four years. He had 400 yards receiving last year, 1,200 yards this year. He finished seventh in the Heisman trophy voting,

which is the highest at tight end has finished. since 1977. D.K. Would you like to make the case for or against Tyler Warren? Four. Okay. Oh, you guys are big positive today.

I don't like it. It is. Heads. Congrats. Yeah. All right. Okay, first off. He's from Mechanicsville.

Right. Oh, man. Mechanicsville. Enough said. Your gooch. He is. He is, and this is the reason I comped him

to Andy Reid, punt past kick challenge, or whatever. largest man on the field at any given time. Maybe not literally, but metaphorically, physically, figuratively, whatever you want to say. He's the biggest guy out there. He is, and I'm going to quote Lance Zerlian here. He plays with a swagger and the best player on the field energy.

I can't think of a better way to explain watching his tape than he plays with the best player on the field mentality. I think it's just so true. You watch him run after the catch, Moss guys at the catch point, line up and block. whatever he's doing, he's always like a hundred miles an hour and absolutely just blowing people up. I think it is infectious for his teammates. In fact,

his teammates call him Psycho T. Another great thing that I just learned from when it's Tyler Warren, Jane Bruegler. And when it's Tyler Hansborough, it's not so cool. Okay. He's really,

really good after the catch. You can utilize him at all three levels in terms of, you know, you can design screens for him. It reminds me a little bit of how like the Eagles will use Dallas Goddard. Just get him in the screen game.

He's going to make things happen. I think that will mean immediate production at the next level. Tons of mistackles forced. He was a big-time basketball player and big-time baseball player in high school, I should say. He was also a left-handed quarterback in high school. He's just a great athlete, and he was basically stuck behind a bunch of tight ends that got drafted in the NFL before him. And so he basically just kind of had to wait his turn to get production there. So I'm not too worried about the fact that he was a 50-year senior who didn't really produce before that.

Hi, Fitz, why should I be skeptical? I mean, one, Dika just said reminds him of Dallas Goddard, didn't love that. That is a bit of an ache. Okay. Well, my upside cop for him is Trey McBride. How does that do for you? Okay. It's better.

Same deal with what the Cardinals do with McBride. Just get him running after the catch. Yeah. My quibble is, once Nate Tice pointed this out, I can't unsee it, which is that Tyler Warren actually like seems like he should be a good blocker because he has long hair, but he's actually not a great blocker, at least honestly, probably not as good as Colson Loveland, because there is, he is blocking a lot of like linebackers and defensive backs, but they don't actually have Tyler Warren all the time, like actually blocking defensive ends.

And I actually think at this point, the biggest question with Tyler Warren's game is the inline blocking. Like can he actually line up and block the way you think of George Kittle, which is just on the line and being a tight end that way? And so my question is basically, if that's your biggest question about a tight end, can he line up as a tight end? Are you going to take a top 10 pick and use it? on this guy where that's your biggest question is what if he just ends up being like, is Tyler Warren actually like the Evan Ingram? In this situation, I have nothing to knock against Tyler Warren as a receiver. I just kind of wonder if he actually has the blocking ability at the next level because he

actually, in that way, you're kind of like Sam Leporta. We're like, yeah, you're Iowa. You're tight end. You can block. And it's like, yeah, well, Sam Leporta's blocking is not that good. So basically, how would we feel about Sam Leporta if he wasn't playing for the Lions and like had never played for Ben Johnson? Like, if Sam Leporta had gone through the Jets or the cults, would we like love Sam Leporta?

That's my fear with Tyler Warren. Really talented player that isn't necessarily going to be able to line up online. And you're like, oh, yeah, what happened? And then you just check into yours in and he hasn't done anything because maybe goes to like a less than creative offense. And you're like, oh, yeah, this actually isn't a traditional tight. DK, do you agree with that that Warren is perhaps seen as a more well-rounded player than he actually is? I think people, because they compare him to Kittle, the Kittle comparison gets thrown around a lot. And shocking because of the hair.

And I'm like, I don't see him as that level of player, what we know of Kittle right now. because Kittle's an elite blocker. And I just don't see him like that. He's not grong. He's not an elite blocker. But it's also, to me, it is one of those things where when was the last time you're, it's very rare to see a really good receiving tight end who's also a great blocker. Like Brock Bowers wasn't that.

Like Sam Leporto wasn't that. In fact, we want them to be slightly less than great at blocking because then the team's not going to fucking ask them to block all the time. They're going to ask him to catch passes. That's what we want in fantasy. And honestly, just what we want just in general. because it's more fun to watch. So I do agree that he's not as good of a blocker as I think maybe some people are making

him out to be. But very few tight ends, I feel like, are really good blockers when they go into the league. And if they are, that's like they get typecast as just blockers at the next level. You're going to be essentially like a sixth offense alignment. So while that's valid, no one's taking him in the top 10 because he can block. They're taking him because he's an elite offensive weapon to catch passes. And that's totally fair. I think, and I'm probably stretching a little bit to criticism.

The real case against Tyler Warren, to me, has nothing to do with Tyler Warren. It's about the tight end position and about the idea that you're going to have to take him in, like if the Jets are going to take him with the top eight pick or whatever, if the Panthers taking it with the top eight pick, whoever's going to do it. The reality is, this is a really deep draft at running back and tight end, a defensive line. You overwhelmingly get starters from defensive line in round one, and you can get to, like, Trey McBride, who's your comp, was the 50th pick in the draft. George Kittle is a third rounder.

Ronk was the second rounder. Kelsey was way later than all those guys. All these great tight ends weren't first round picks. So why would you take a tight end in the first round round? Other than Brock Bowers last year, you actually rarely get the first round tight ends to turn out. Like Evan Ingram and Joker were success stories by that metric. Like they're not even that good.

You don't want to take them in the first round. Especially guys who are like fringe top 10. And you're getting the Kyle Pitts territory. There are not a lot of top 10 tight ends. And the value of the thing comes with it too. Trey McBride just signed an extension and have the biggest tight at the highest paid tight end in the NFL. There are literally two dozen defensive linemen that make more than Tray McBride.

Why would you not take a defensive lineman in the first round and a tight end in the second round rather than try to get a first round tight end and then try to find a defensive line in the second round. It's just not how you do things. It doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. I mean, I think I agree with that that the big argument against Warren is not that he's not good because he is, but it's that the value of taking a tight end of that spot.

I would say the one guy that kind of sticks out in my mind is the T.J. Hawkinson. He was the eighth overall pick. I don't think anyone's regretting picking T.J. Hawkinson. And what happened? He's playing now for the Vikings. The Lions sent him to a division rival. That's what the Lions thought of T.J. Hawkinson. They put him on the Vikings.

Yeah. The history of first round tight ends is pretty big, honestly. Okay. Next up. Wide receiver, Emeka, Abuka, out of Ohio State. 22 years old, 6-1, 202 pounds. Four years at Ohio State. he has the most receptions in Ohio state history.

And a fun fact, I'm only adding this because it's Washington. D.K., his grandfather, Ron Frederick, was elected mayor of DuPont, Washington in 2020. Did you know that? I did not know that. That's great. D.K. You want heads or tails here for a mecca? Heads.

You all want heads. You're picking the good players first. Oh, it is heads. Yeah. Hyphids just has the shit on everybody. I feel like the only guy he got to make the case four was a guy he's not even that in love with. is Ted McMillan. Okay, DK,

what's to love about a mecca? Emeka Bugha is the most productive Ohio State receiver ever. 202 career catches, and that is on a bunch of teams with future first round picks and some of the freakiest receivers you've ever seen.

That's because he was just there for four years and everybody else was there for two. Yeah, thank you. It's good enough to leave. That's just, that's the only reason. It's not because he's good. Right.

It's not because he was lining up and catching passes. Staying is the main reason. Right. He is the guy who's been in college for six years does have the most credits. Didn't Olave play?

He played until he was a senior. He's not the only guy that's played four years there. Let's give him a little credit. He's out there playing and making plays. Anyway, Abuka is as rock solid as they come. He's a really good route runner. He has great hands.

That's correct. He's productive after the catch. He is really strong at the catch point. Basically, just tough, strong, physical inside receiver who runs after the catch and he's a great blocker. You can run him out there and play him every snap. So I just think he is admittedly maybe not the highest ceiling guy

But he has one of the highest floors Of any receiver in this class Can kind of do it all Fan bases are going to love him He's willing to get down and dirty Yeah okay Hyphitz Why shouldn't I be into him?

Ian Hardiths at Fantasy Life In the middle of the NFL season He's an Ohio State fan In the middle of the season Just was like Ian Hart He just was like Emeka Buka is Gen Z Robert Woods but.

And complimentary? Well, that's up to you. Basically, I have nothing negative to say about a Macabuka. Like everyone else, like he's an awesome player. So essentially he's fine is what you're saying. We always talk about prototypical number one receiver prototypical prototypical ex-receiver. I think Ibuka is the prototypical

like number two receiver in the NFL. Jack of all trades. He can do everything. He can line up everywhere. He is. Also, there's a selflessness that is actually like applicable to the team. Even in high school, he's supposed, he was a five-star that his parents won. We go to a bigger high school. And he was like, no, I want to stay with my teammates.

And I think that you see that. Like, he's cerebral. He's, like, he's able to do everything. I just think that that's, it's cooler when you're like, he's like Chris Godwin. And that sounds awesome. And you're like, you know, he's like Robert Woods. And you're like, oh, we're going to take it to the first round. Most people will probably quibble with my Chris Godwin comp.

I kind of just like the Chris Godwin thing because he's, I don't know, like, what one thing Godwin does so great, but he's just good at everything. And he's really good. good out of a slot. I'd say the cons with Emeka Abuka is he's primarily a slot guy. Can he play on the outside? Probably not. That's probably not going to be what he's best at the next level. He didn't break the

10 of tackles. He's not going to be out there in two out receiver sets, you don't think? Well, that just depends on the system. If he's, you know, theoretically, you can play in two receiver sets and not be asked to be like the X. You can kind of be moving the guy around. I think he could play Z. But he's not a prototypical X

receiver. So he doesn't break a ton of tackles. He had a low average depth of target in college. So I think the bottom line is he kind caps out as a number two and how high do you take that guy. Yeah. Feels like a second rounder, not a first rounder. Yeah. But also a second rounder that you'll really be happy with. Yeah. In this class, honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if it goes in the first because you just want to get a really rock-solid player that's going to play for you right away. I think, you know, before the Steelers got D.K. Metcalf, I was very invested on them drafting a wide receiver and I was going through all these guys. And I think it's easy to overlook Abuka because, like you said, he's a lot. He's,

not flashy in any one category. There's not like the sexiness of like watching Luther Burden or even some of the guys later on that like have certain elements to them that are elite, even though they lack in other categories. But it does feel like a guy like Apuka is going to get overlooked and he's not sexy when you watch the tape. And then in three years he's going to be like a really beloved Tyler Lockett. He's going to catch a hundred passes. Yeah. It's like he's going to be, he's going to have a 12 year career on a really good team contributing and making big third down plays. Among like non-elite prospects, I think if you're taking health out of it, I think Apuku probably has the highest floor of any prospect we've talked about in years.

You know what I mean? Like, take away from like Malik neighbors and guys like that. If somebody told me you just drafted Tyler Lockett's career, I think you got to be pretty happy with that, to be honest. Yeah. Austin throws in the chat, his comp is Tyler Boyd. That was my low-end comp. Don't like that. Basically, it's like a, that's my downside comp for him.

You're getting a really good number three. And again, it's just kind of a perspective thing. Like obviously Tyler Boyd had a long productive career, but isn't considered like a number one or maybe even not a number two. But to me, that's like the absolute floor. You're going to get a good player. Okay, next up, tight end. Colston Loveland out of Michigan, 6-6-248 pounds.

He's 21 years old. He set the record for most single-season receptions at Michigan in school history. High fits. You want to make the case four against Colston? Where are you leaning? probably four. Oh, you guys are soft. It is.

I hope it's tails. It's heads. Wow. The heads is on a crazy run right now. All right. As I said four, I realized they wanted against. Well,

I would start with the case for Colston Loveland at Michigan and say, you know how D.K. Keep saying Tyler Warren's like, this Andy Reid, pound past kick, like this giant among men.

Colston Lovellon's taller than Tyler Warren. It's going to start right there. Is he? Half an inch taller. He's tall. He's just to start right there. So he's actually larger.

I think he's a better blocker. And there's a Nico Collins element, not that Colston Loveland's literally like Nico Collins, but Deco Collins played at Michigan, and it's kind of like, how do you judge these like amazing athletes in this like low volume hardball running offense? And I think there's something about Lovelin.

They're actually the same height for the record. NFL.com has it as 6.5 and a half for 666. Combine measurements, according with the 1 eighths of an inch measurement, it's 6056, 6054. So they're like essentially the exact same height. So not the same height. But Lovellins.

What to quibble with your. first point here, they're actually the exact same height. They're not the exact same height. Why are you using the word exact? Well, those are different numbers. Rounding up, rounding up. So if you round up, Tyler Warren's the same. There are two eighths of an inch difference.

How's that? A quarter inch. I'm confused by this argument, but okay. A quarter inch, have you, look at a quarter inch. That's like a sliver. Some people say it's a huge deal. Just saying. Some people say, his first point was that he's actually taller.

He is taller. What are we doing here? And he's 12 pounds lighter or 8 pounds lighter? Come on. Yeah. It's not bigger. Just saying. Body mass index.

Colston Loveland in high school. Sorry, I shouldn't be interrupted. No, it's a true debate if you guys are cutting each other off every five seconds. He would get up at six in the morning to brand cows come home, take a nap, and they go play football. God damn it. I'm so in. Take that guy. you want tight ed who graded cows or you want the one who didn't brand cows

how do we know that tyler warren didn't brand any cows that's what i hasn't come up um mechanicsville it's probably more of a car situation yeah he's fucking fixing a car before replacing engines yeah this is like phoebe and friends when she has to pick between the really hot firefighter and the really hot like school teacher you're gonna end up with neither of them you know it's like one's just like fixing cars wasn't paul red one of those yeah paul right yeah was paul red the teacher in that love tribe? I think it was a different storyline. He's a banana hammock guy.

He's who she ends up with. No, it was different because she didn't get either of them. Yeah. All right. So did Hyphitz, sorry, I was interrupting too often. Did Hyfitts finish? Are you done? I just think Colson,

I think there's basically a chance that Colson Loveland is actually like the traditional tight end. And I don't think there's great comps floating out there for Colston Loveland. But I, do you remember, it's funny. My negative one for Colson Loveland was like Hunter Henry. And my positive one was actually what Hunter Henry was supposed to be, which, you know what I mean when he was like, like, I feel like seven years ago.

Like when Hunter Henry has a great game, that's what Colson is a great game. And it's like 80 yards and three touchdowns. And you're like, oh my God, I see the best tight end of the NFL? Like that, like, what if every game was like that? I kind of think that's the Colson level could be like. D.K., in general, how good is this tight end class compared to past years? I think the first two guys are really good. So Tyler Warren and Colson Loveland.

And honestly, you can flip a coin in terms of which guys can be better at the next level in terms of more productive or more just useful at the next level. I still think Tyler Warren just a little bit, but I know there's a lot of really smart people out there that really like Colson Loveland. And I'm not, you know, poo-poohing that at all. I think he's a really exciting player. So I think those guys carry a lot of the weight of like when people consider this a really good tight-end class. I'd say the rest of the guys I'm not like super excited about. I think Harold Fandon's super interesting and we'll talk about him later. but generally speaking,

I would say it's probably been a little bit overstated that this is like a great tight end class. I just think the top two guys are really good. We're going to get potentially two top 15 tight ends. Yeah, when you think of like, you know, Sam Leporta, Michael Mayer, Dalton Kincaid, Brock Bowers, where do these guys kind of fall in that hierarchy?

Are they below Brock Bowers, but ahead of everybody else? Definitely below Brock Bowers. Who are the other ones you said? La Pota, Michael Mayor. Yeah, I'd say they're ahead of those guys. Although I will say I really liked Kincaid coming out. So that's not aged well.

And I think that's kind of just a great example of how the tight-in position can be pretty hard to evaluate, you know, because they're just asked to do so much at the next level. It's a really tough position to play. You basically have to be an offensive line and a receiver at one time. And it depends where you land and depends on what quarterback you're with. I've kind of made the contention over the years that a lot of tight ends, especially just the really productive ones, are just the product of the quarterback really likes to throw. throwing to the tight end. You know what I mean? Like, Dak Prescott loves throwing to the tight end. So whoever is tight end is going to be is going to be productive.

Yeah. So I think there's landing, it's a little bit landing spot dependent as well. Now, that being said, with Loveland, the thing that the reason I gave Tyler Warren a little bit of an edge and the Yves was interrupting Hyphitz is like, Tyler Warren is fucking big. Like, his

deal is he's a big human being. It carries his way differently. Yes. Almost as big as Colson Loveland. And Colson Loveland is skinny. He's a, he's a, he's a skinny, tight end. Eight pounds difference. Yeah. And the way that they carry their weight is very different.

And I actually saw this. I think Dan Bruegler said this early in the year. There were some teams that were looking at Loveland as a receiver, if that tells you anything. So with Loveland, he's really good at getting up the seam. He has good acceleration, good speed. Once he gets a little bit ahead of steam, he can really run. But he's not as dynamic of an athlete in terms of making guys miss. Very few miss tackles for us.

This is Loveland you're talking about. Loveland, yeah. He doesn't break tackles. He's kind of like a linear athlete, I think. He's definitely a good athlete, but he's not in the same category of Tyler Warren, where he's like running guys over, making guys miss jumping over guys, all that stuff. He's much more straight line. I'm going to get over the top and, you know, stretch the seams for you and create big plays.

But it's a very different style. And to me, it's like when he goes into the NFL, you're going to have to get with a team that wants to stretch the seams vertically, past that guy, because he's not going to be dump off and let him pick up 10 yards by running after the catcher on the screen. He's not like a dynamic focal point

of the offense type guy. He might be able to be, but I'm less confident in him doing that as I am with Tyler Warren, if that makes any sense. So my comp, my upside comp is something like an Evan Ingram or something like,

or like if you don't like that one, Tyler Eifert is a guy that came to mind. Big red zone three. makes really great catches, but not necessarily the most dynamic athlete you've ever seen. Tyler Heifert. He had a way back track. He had a good season once. He had one good season, right?

I think he had like 10 plus touchdowns one year. Yeah, he had that one year. Okay. Also, for what it's worth, Colson Leveland had a shoulder injury at the combine. So he's coming off of an injury, which is just one more piece to the puzzle. Okay. Moving on, wide receiver Matthew Golden out of Texas, 21 years old, 511, 1951 pounds, ran a 429-940. Spent two years at Houston last year at Texas, had about 1,000 yards, nine touchdowns.

D.K., do you want to talk up or talk down, Matthew Golden? I'll go. I'll talk down on Matthew Golden. How about it? Well, good, because I want to talk them up. It is. Tales. All right. Nice. Things are kind of working out here. Yeah, so tell me why I should not be into the 5-11 speedster.

I'm always kind of a little leery with late bloomers, late risers, in terms of in the process of everything. early on in the season, people were talking about Isaiah Bond. People were not talking about Matthew Golden. As the season went on, Bond disappeared, and Golden emerged as kind of like the number one guy. But I think if you go back, first of all, for a first-round receiver, he would have one of the worst production profiles of any first-round receiver ever. He never went over 1,000 yards in college. His career high was 58 catches this year.

So his production is a red flag. Drops were an issue last year. there this last season. So that's probably not a big deal. He's not super big. I don't think he ends up being a number one receiver in the NFL. He probably caps out at being like a good number two,

a good complimentary piece to an offense. And also, this is my favorite thing now. The conspiracy theory is that 429 that he ran in the combine is bullshit. Have you guys seen this online? No, why is the bullshit? There's people that are looking at the video of him running his 40 and like the timer starts

slightly late. and I think it probably is not actually what happened. He probably is very fast. In fact, he, like, his miles per hour. Like, that's just the timer. Like, that's just the TV people. That's not the same. No, it's the actual, like, the actual timers for the combine actually do have to hit.

They do have to hit the button. But this happened a couple of years ago, and it wasn't like when we saw Chris Olavie, around like a 426 or something. Right, right, right. And it turned out the person whose job was to hit the button on the broadcast, it was their first time. But that, but that wasn't the real time. Like, Chris Olavi's, real time isn't being live broadcast necessarily.

You know what I mean? Right, but I think what people are saying is that the time is BS. Whatever. I think it's just a fun conspiracy there. Is it an automatic sensor? Is it every single measurement of the 40 with done by hand? No, I think I think it's laser timed for when you cross the line. But the start, there's a little bit of subjectivity to when you start your run.

You know what I mean? Is it when your arm starts moving ever so slightly? Is it when you're like over the line? I think there's a little bit of subjectivity there. So anyways, we're getting over, like, I just wanted to bring that up as kind of a joke. The dumbest thing in the world. I think if you want to say the 429 is bullshit,

it's because Matthew Golden's mom was a track star, and he's in the 98th percentile for his 10-yard split, and it's probably because he has really good form on the beginning of the start. Regardless, he ran a 4-29, which means he's one of the fastest people on the planet alive. And I would guess, I would venture that fastest man alive was not in a lot of scouting reports before he ran the comment.

So he didn't really, he didn't play fast on tape. Yeah. Okay, that's fair, but also that there's people that are going to run like 4-4 that we call fast.

I think the larger point, though, the bigger point to me with Matthew Golden is all the people in the conversation around 4-3 running of that kind of speed

or it's kind of like the, wow, what a fast guy, can't wait till we teach him to play football. It's usually people who can't catch and have no sense

of getting open, no sense of coverage, no sense anything. Matthew Gold has all the receiver stuff. That to me is the point, though with Matthew Golden is he knows how to do all this stuff. He actually can track a football. He can get open.

He's an actual route runner. He has feel for coverage. It's not just like sprint or not. Like he has feel for like tempo and all this stuff. And again, like understands football. And also once he has the ball, he becomes a runner. So he actually, and all those things. And also clutch.

My quibble with the production thing is he transferred to Texas. It's supposed to be an Isaiah Bond season. Matthew Golden was the one. He was the clutch guy. He was the one where they needed a moment. He was the guy who became the guy for Texas. So to me, you put all that together, the clutchness, being able to track a football, being able to become a runner, all the stuff. That's all the stuff that happens when the game moves a little slower for you.

Those are all things when you're kind of pan-you're able to see things like Red Dead Redemption, like the Dead Eye, like everything's moving a little slower for you than everyone. And he's even close to that speed, I'll give into the conspiracy theory. To me, that's a just a player who absolutely has an NFL level floor, even if he's, you're right, he's probably more of a number two receiver, whatever you want to call him. but I don't know. I see Matthew Goldman. I'm like, he just has a rare skill set for someone that's even in the conversation on that speed.

So it's like you're basically saying, it's like the opposite of the guys who test poorly. He was already a productive good wide receiver in college. And then he actually tested quite well. And you're like, wow, he's actually faster than we thought. Yeah. I agree with all that.

I think his start, stop acceleration is really special, run after the catch. He kind of like will square guy up and just beat him off the dribble really easily. I like that. I almost saw a little bit of golden tady. when he's running after the catch, just really creative after the catch.

He was excellent going up and winning contested catch situations. He had one really incredible catch where he caught it off of his shoulder pad as he was going out of bounds. He has those types of catches on his tape too. So to be clear, I do like him. But I do, the production red flag,

the production red flag, I think is a real thing. Because, I don't know. You just don't see guys with this production going the first round very often. You know who else? I didn't have 800 yards in college? Who's that?

Ladd-McConkey. And I think Ladd-McConkey and Matthew Golden, I think there's some, there's some similarities to me. He was the second rounder, but still, very, that's a valid point. With 35th. Yeah, I mean, Golden had a thousand yards and nine touchdowns. Is that not production to you? Did he have a thousand?

I might have looked at around. He had 987. Yeah, yeah. So he didn't quite reach out. It's like a quarter of an inch. It's a quarter of an inch. Have you rat. Good to know.

Basically exactly the same. The arbitrary 1,000 yard rule. Okay. Let's pivot to Luther Burden, the third out of Missouri, wide receiver. Six feet tall, 206 pounds. Played three years at Missouri. So two years ago, his sophomore year, he had 1,200 yards and nine touchdowns. Last year, he had half that, 600 yards.

So, D.K., there are reasons for that that I imagine both of you will get into. But, D.K., tell me, do you want to make the case four or against Luther Burden? Well, you keep saying we're afraid to compete, so I'll go against. Good. It is tails. Wow, this is really working out. I know. You're planning this.

I'm calling it like I see it. You guys need to go to Vegas. All right. D.K., shut on Luther Burden for me. All right. So first off, the production drop is a big concern. I think there are some reasons for that, but in terms of like the quarterback and the offense. But when you watch, the effort wasn't always great.

The attitude, I think there's a bunch of reports. He doesn't practice very hard. So some of the character stuff, I think, is getting much more reported of late and is worrisome, especially coming off of like, you know, our obsession and our love for Cadarist, Tony, who we no longer have that love for. So the other thing is he's mainly a slot guy, schemed up a ton of touches in college. Can he separate consistently? Can he play outside?

I didn't think he was very strong at the catch point. He is a big, strong athlete with a lot of runoff to catch ability, but I didn't think he was particularly strong at the catch point when he was in traffic guys around him, things like that. When you marry that with the effort, I think issues that are showing up on tape and be coming out sort of like in reporting. I've just got alarm bells kind of going off. So you're kind of like it looks good in warmups type of guy. I think the upside is the upside. The upside is insane.

And my upside comp for him is Percy Harvin. And my downside comp is like I said, Carrie's Tony where he just, he just is kind of a shitheaded. and like has talent it never manifests never works out yeah um okay hi fits luther burdon sell me sell me this pen i'll sell you this pen uh dk's upside comp for luther bird and is percy harvard dk who's the greatest like who's like the greatest pure athlete you've seen uh from 2010 like 2005 2005 2020 i mean maybe percy harvin yeah okay it's cool uh i've losing it like how much i love percy harvard for the record. Percy's the best. Yeah.

But I think the fact that D.K. It is not... Percy Harvin's high school YouTube highlight reel is actually in the S tier of like maybe the single best high school player there was in the 21st century. So when D.K. drops Percy Harvin,

like that's what he's talking about of like Luther Burton being this special player. And so I totally agree. And like it's funny. It's like a Rorschach test. I think the attitude stuff, it's one of those when you're playing poorly. It's like you're a diva

and when you're playing really well, it's like, you know, that's just the price of being great, right? And so I think it's just one of those that we're going to retcon, whatever it means. If he's good, no one's going to give a fuck. And so that's the thing. Because, like, exactly. The flip side is, I remember Brian Dable last year told the story about Malik Neighbors.

And he was like, if we're like winning at halftime and you have no targets, are you going to be happy? And Mike Nebris was like, no, I'm going to be pissed. Dable's like, good. I want you to want you to want the ball. And it's like one of those were. You know what I remember? Was it a combine interview? Yeah.

And it's like the Missouri offense was so bad last year that, to be honest, I don't want to say throughout the season, but it's like all these stories that are coming out of like Luther Bird was unhappy, blah, blah, blah. And it's like there's all these characters. I mean, there's some reports that go from like, I believe that to like concerning to like kind of character assassination either. I'm not going to. Right. Is it a smoke screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And then there are a couple stories that could told that I put a little more weight to of like, you know, was he kind of like lullagging against some routes at the combine, which that's a little weird. But overall, like, The combine. That's not great. We'll see. I don't know. What are you doing? But the Missouri offense was so bad that it's like, I don't know how you couldn't get frustrated.

And so if you, it's funny, J.G. Zach Reason, who does like late round draft guide, it's just the name. It's great. I was looking at it earlier today. Yeah. And really good product. And the model is like statistical model loves Luther Burden. And it's funny because the model is doing what people should do, which is the model just throws out last season.

They're waiting. They're waiting his sophomore season heavily. 2023 is just off the charts. And it's just up there. Like, wait, I have this. I couldn't believe this. This one from the 2023 with Luther Burden. Pro football focus says this.

In 2023, Luther Burden earned the third highest receiving grade among all power five receivers behind Malik neighbors and Malik Washington, but ahead of Marvin-Aerson, ahead of Roma Dunzee, and top five in yards per route run just ahead of Ladd-McConkie. Like Luther Burden athletically, and if he had come out last season, we'd be talking about this guy in the crop of like that incredible receiver group last year. Right.

But now the offense is horrible. Brady Cook, the quarterback, has this ankle injury all season. The offense is disgusting. And so Luther Burton gets all these passes around the line of scrimmage, at the line of scrimmage. And it's like, all right, is he a gadget player or whatever. It's like maybe it was just an offense that couldn't deliver him the football. We'll see. I don't know. Sure. But as an athlete, he is like a Garrett Wilson type player. I love him. He's one of those people where when you just like watch him, he completely jumps off the screen and is a, it seems like a singular talent. He kind of reminds me of Antonio Brown and him being a little bit of perhaps character concerns. Like, he feels like such a steeler.

So I would love if that happen. I saw some quote from an NFL scout who said, I think he got bored with the offense last year. His playing style is like Jerry Judy, but with Amonra St. Brown's hands and toughness. I was like, oh. Interesting.

I mean, yeah. He is to break character, one of the hardest ones for me to evaluate this year, I think, because I can see both sides of it very clearly. He's pretty electric with the ball on his hands. Yeah. Like, he's awesome at slot fades. Like, they can't hang with him

when he's running a slot fade, things like that, where I'm like, man, this could be really special. But then, I don't know, there's just a lot of alarm bells going off with the other stuff that I kind of just, I don't know where to land on. Screw it. Do it. I think, I think a Mekka is the example of a player I would so much rather have on my real life team than my fantasy team. And Luther Burden is like the epitome of I'd rather have him on my fantasy team than my real life team. The upside. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to deal with whatever he's going to do to my locker room, but I would like to watch Luther Burton play football.

Okay, next guy. Jalen Noel, Iowa State, 510, 194 pounds. Four years are Iowa State, 1,200 yards, eight touchdowns last season, big year, DK, or Haifitz. You want to talk up or talk down, Jalen Noelle? I couldn't care. He's agnostic. We're getting down there.

It's heads. Tell me why Jailin Noelle should be a first-round pick. I actually, I'm stealing this from Matt Harmon, who does great work of reception perception. He said, what if Christian Kirk could block? And I thought that was like a really good analysis of just like, I think there's questions about Jill and Oval of just like size, but I'm like, it's one of those things where you go through it, you're like, wait, so he could play football.

And it's like you go down the scouting report, you're like, so he's quick and speed, like, as in he has long speed, but he also has the quickness underneath. Like sometimes they're like quicker than fast. No, he's quick and fast. He's actually a good route runner. He can track the ball. He can return punts pretty well, which is generally like a good indicator of like you're going to have like a future at the very least.

this is a slot receiver. And he blocks. And then, like, this was great. Like, D.K., in your draft guide, Jail Lua, Hutt, eight catches of 50 yards or more of the past two seasons,

the third most in the FBS. So you're looking at him like, so what, teams are just afraid that he's like small? Like this is he can play. Well, tell me, D.K., what's the downside? He's small, he has short arms,

small hands, small catch radius. I think that's the starter. He's a slot-only type of player. He's probably not going to be playing on the outside. So I think that caps your upside a little bit. And there are times where his play strength was an issue. He doesn't break very many tackles.

He's not as good runner after the catches you'd think you'd be with that speed and acceleration. But for some reason, he just doesn't break a lot of tackles, get a lot of yak. But I think those are all sort of just quibbles. Those are the reasons he'll probably be a second rounder and not a first rounder. I still think he's going to be a productive player in the NFL. The comp that I love for him is Tyler Lockett. Just smooth speed. Just a guy who can separate easily, get downfield,

to create big plays. It's just going to dive at the defender's knees. As soon as he catches. That's true. Like in terms of the lack of yak ability is perfect for Tyler Lockett,

especially late career. Tyler. He can't break tackles. He just doesn't want to. He just chooses not to. He's like, there's, you know, to be finishing up yards here.

Odds are the guy's going to tackle me. I'll just go down. But yeah, I like Noel, Jalen Noel. He's super explosive. And he's, he's one of those players

where the speed is very apparent on the field. He's field fast. His speed is legit. He's a field tilting type of player. All right. Well, let's go to his teammate, Jaden Higgins, who is kind of the opposite here. 64, 214 pounds, has a 6-7 wingspan.

He ran a 4-47 40-yard dash, set the school record 214-14 receiving yards in a game in 2023. D.K., you want to talk up or talk down, Jaden Higgins? Down. Down? Well, you get to do that. It is tails. What is going on? I live a blessed life, Craig.

All right. So for starters, I think he's big and fast, but he's a bit of a linear athlete. He's not going to snap off a ton of routes, get open really easily, especially early in his routes. He's inconsistent against zone in terms of getting. I noticed that he would like sit down in traffic or kind of get stuck in traffic and not really sit down in a spot where his quarterback can get him the football. Is that a mental thing? I think it's just kind of like an awareness thing and knowing kind of what the defense is giving you.

A feel? Yeah, it's a feel. It's a knack. It's one of those things where some guys are just really naturally able to kind of sit down and sense where the defense is and get themselves in an open spot. I didn't notice that a ton with him. I also just think stylistically body type.

There's not a ton of dudes out there with his height, weight combination who are like really good, really productive. Brian Thomas would be like the absolute. like dream because I think he's around that size and in height, but he's kind of a unicorn. Um, my, my upside comp would be like a George Pickens type of player where you're just kind of an an outlier, but most of the time you see in my downside comps like Miles Boykin,

super athlete, you know, huge frame just couldn't separate, couldn't get open. Yeah. Hakeem Butler, another former Iowa state guy who people loved, I loved him coming out. And I'm kind of like, maybe did I learn my lesson with, with tall, fast guys who can't get open. who can't separate. And the other thing I'll mention here, and you mentioned Matt Harmon,

if it's his reception, like when they charted him, when he charted, Jaden Higgins, it was really bad. So that's kind of given me the ick a little bit. Not to totally rely on that, because I was already a little bit lower

than, I think, consensus on him before that. And then I saw that, I was like a little bit validation of what I was seeing too. But basically, yeah, just the issues getting open are concerning. He does have great size.

and he wins at the catch point, but you know, you see a lot of guys that have good size speed but don't really end up panning out at the NFL level. All right, DK has a lot of icks.

What's the opposite of an ick? An oo. A boner. An oo? Yeah. I call it like it is. Hi, Vince, why does J. Niggins give you a boner?

It's like Nico Collins. He's tall. He's fast. He can catch it. It can line up everywhere. What else he wants? Sorry, he's not perfect.

Yeah, that's fair. Well, and see, I mean, especially this year, there are not a lot of guys we've spoken about that have his size. I mean, it's like, Ted McMillan is the only other guy

with like real size. A lot of these wide receivers are like 510, 5, 11, 6 feet. Jaden Higgins is the only guy with a real size speed combination. Yeah, it's like, did you want Ted McMillan in the first round? It didn't get him?

Okay, cool. Take Jaden Higgins. I think there's a gray area that he could exist where in the right offense with the right quarterback. He's really good. Like, he has production because the quarterback is willing to...

What's the right fit for him? Like a quarterback that's willing to throw it to him even though he's kind of got a guy on him. The guy that I kept thinking of, he's not quite the same size, but this is going to sound like a negative, but Alan Lazzard, when he's with Aaron Rogers, like, Rogers just feeds him.

And he just trusts him. He's got a big frame. Yeah. He trusts him in the red zone. I don't know. Is that a negative? We should come up with the line. Lazzar's had like a good career.

Yeah, he said a good career. If somebody said Jaden Higgins will have Alan Lazzard's career, I guess that's bad, right? People are not going to like that idea, I think. He's another Iowa State guy randomly. I didn't even put that connection together until just now, too, but it's like Iowa State has a type. It's funny.

We should, we should find the line of, like, the worst comp you'd still be okay with. Right. I think we found it with Ibukas, Gen C. Robert Woods. I think we kind of found that. Yeah, Robert Woods is right there. That's a great call of, like, I guess you'd take it, but it's kind of pretty milk toast.

Okay. Let's keep going. Elic I.O. Manor, the wide receiver out of Stanford, 6-2, 206 pounds. What's for Gus Johnson? Mind your manners. Yeah. Mind your manners. This is our guy from Medicine Hat Canada.

Yeah. Shouts Medicine Hat. D.K. Or no, Hyfitz. You want to talk up Mr. Medicine Hat or talk him down? Probably down. Hyphitz is against Canadians. It is Tails. We're like 10 for 11 on.

coin flips here. All right, go ahead. Tell me while you're out. Can't get out. Can't get open. Don't think he can catch. And he's like a role player.

Can't catch. Can't get open. Okay. DK, you're rebuttal. Can't, D.K.'s like, can catch and can get open.

Potato potato. Sometimes he did catch the football. What about Travis Hunter? Particularly in a game against Travis Hunter in 2023, which I can't get out of my brain, kind of shows the elite upside. I think he does possess.

I'm definitely aware that he is kind of a high variance player. There's plenty of worlds in which he ends up being kind of a nothing. And he's out there running routes like a Gabe Davis or something. You know, like he exists. He's on the field and he has a couple good games for the most part. I want to make that my new one. My new argument is there's many a worlds where he's in nothing. There's many worlds in which I.

O. Menore ends up being like Gabe Davis. But I think there's also a world in which he ends up being Nico Collins. And it just depends on his development in terms of, early in his route, getting off press and getting open and then catching the football consistently. Because he has he has had issues with drops the last two seasons. He's relatively

new to football. He started out as a hockey player and he plays like it, like physicality. And now I'm going to do this because I do it every time. Don't you ever touch my puck? That's my puck, baby. He's an explosive athlete. When he gets out and gets going on like a slant, he can run away from a defense. I just picture you know, Nico Collins

if you want like a lower end more realistic a comp like a Cedric Tillman. Tillman looked pretty damn good when James Winston was throwing him in the football last year. Maybe he has some upside too. But the catch issues I think are I always have trouble with guy

has a lot of jobs in college because sometimes guys just get better at catching the football and then you never think about it again. And sometimes it's something that haunts them the whole career. Him making catches over Travis Hunter multiple times in that game. I'm just like, he can catch the football. He just

needs to be more consistent at it. So, I don't know. The kind of the story, the word on Ilemanor right now is like he has rocks for hands. And I think generally that might be true. But I think he can improve. I think he has it in him to get better. Are we sure that he's not just using football as a way to train for next year's hockey trials?

364 more days, no next year tryouts. Oh, that one hurt a little, but I'm okay. Oh, but I'm okay. And then the kid goes in after him. Awesome. All right. Next up here, Tide-end Mason Taylor

out of LSU he turns 21 years old next month, 6-5, 251 pounds the son of Hall of Famer Jason Taylor Also nephew of Hall of Famer

Zach Thomas Yes, nephew of two famous dolphins Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor But humans That played for the dolphin Right, not animals Not what's his name

for Mace Ventura What's the dolphin's name? Shit, what is the dolphin has a name, right? His name is I'll find the porpoise Hold on We got to How can I remember

His name is Snowflake Snowflake Carlos goes in The clock Snowflake Snowflake the dolphin I never thought I would say

To Ace Ventura movie Was ahead of its time Oh my god Do the dolphins Do the dolphins Have a dolphin That they Like do they have a live dolphin

That they kind of They can't anymore Did they? Because of things that happen Because animal cruelty And PETA Would get on them? Probably

Okay. Maybe they should bring that back. Okay, wait. So, D.K., do you want to talk up or down, Mason Taylor? Jason's son? I'll talk him up. Okay, well, it is heads. I don't even know why I flip. What are the odds? We've got to have someone do the odds of us getting heads, getting the correct thing like eight times in a row. If you watch the full video, you'll see me flipping this every time.

I guess I could just be telling you the opposite. Right. It's in your power, but I believe that you're not. I don't know. Personally, I don't know much about this guy. So tell me in an elevator why I should take him. First off, I want to make it clear. High Fitz, I think one of the first guys I sort of noticed,

because I was watching Nussmeier early, early on. Like this was in September. And I was like, I like this Mason Taylor guy. He just makes big catches in big moments for them. Nussmire, the quarterback out of LSU. Yeah, who ended up not going pro yet. Anyway, he is, obviously, Hall of Fame bloodlines. He's been around the game of football his entire life.

I think that gives him just a leg up on probably everyone else in terms of just genetics and or understanding of how to be a pro. He holds the LSU records for tight ends in career catches and receiving yards. Not a ton in terms of competition, I don't think, because 129 catches, 1,300 yards. So it's obviously not like eye-popping numbers. But he's a good athlete. He accelerates quickly off the line. He's a good route runner.

I think he sells his fakes well, uses like shoulder shimmies head fakes to get open. He's a smooth mover. He has a pretty big catch radius. Like I said, he makes some big catches in traffic, very reliable. reliable hands, tough and physical. He's basically, this is my favorite thing to say, but he's a pickup truck type of tight end where he's just really reliable.

You can use him for everything. He has decent blocking skills. I think he has the size and frame to get better at it. Again, not a lot of guys coming out of the college game are super good blockers at tight end. But I think he's the type of guy who could end up being just a wide tight end and play every down and be pretty good at, you know,

everything. Check of all trades. Give me a, I'm a simple man. I need comps. Is he like Jake Ferguson? Who are we talking about here? Zachertz, Hunter Henry, something like that. Zacherts, because he doesn't, he's not like a super,

he's not going to run after the catch and break a ton of tackles. He's just always there. He's not going to have a Twitter account named after him for not breaking tackles. Or he might actually have that, I mean. Well, you called him a pickup truck, but this sounds more like a dump truck. Oh. Heyo. Hyvitz, you can take that if you want.

But anyway, Hyfitz, talk down. Mason Taylor. Well, D.K. said pickup truck, but it's more like a dump truck. Oh, that's good. That's good. I'm going to write that down.

You can take that if you won't, correct? I also think it's a NFL bloodlines, and I think we have to add that to the, like, if you like a player, you say they're 34, but if you don't like the player, you say they're turning 35.

We have to add any player he's the kid of an NFL player. If you like them, NFL bloodline, and if you don't, it's a Nepo baby. Yeah, sure. So, Yeah, Mason Taylor, I think the Zach Earth's one, Hunter Henry, those can also be derogatory where it's like, I think basically I think the Zachert's career arc is like a, I don't even deny

Mason Taylor could be that. I just think it's like a really high, like there's a low margin for error to be Zachers where you're not that fast, but you have to get open and you're not going to break tackles. And like you're kind of just banking that he becomes like a high IQ player with a lot of feel, which is like cool, but like it just seems like a volatile thing to bet on a tight edge, you know what I mean? And, like, it's, again, there's just not a, frankly, it doesn't really have the athleticism of a guy who's like, dad is a Hall of Fame defense event. Like, it's kind of like how Sheter doesn't exactly have Dion's athleticism.

Doesn't really have Jason. Like, it sounds cool to be like, there's a reason he's not Jason Jr. Wait, this guy has a Hall of Fame uncle and a Hall of Fame dad. Doesn't look like it. Like, just saying. What's his mom do? Yeah, no. So I think that you're honestly betting on him having more feel than, like, the athleticism is very much like tall enough to ride the ride to be.

an NFL tight end. But I actually kind of think that when I always make a joke of like, yeah, they're all the tight ends are athletes. I'm like, some are more athletic than others. And like he's not necessarily that. He's got a woman to feel. Okay. But he's got good hands.

Let's get to Kai's. Had a great day, though. Let's get to Kai's guy here who he's been waiting for 70 minutes for us to talk about him. Jack, is it Beck? B.C. B.C. Besh.

Jack Besh out of TCU. 6-1-214. Spent two years at LSU. Two years at TCU. Hi, Fitz, you want in or out on Jack Bash? It should be back. We, right? We know that.

Bash? It's four. I mean, this is, you know, whoever ends up having to argue against Jack Bash American hero. It's heads. Damn it. Thank God. Okay. Jack Bash, go.

I think the argument for Jack Bash is like Michael Thomas Slant Boy, like he literally had the most slants in college football last year. Slant merchant. Slant merchant. So I think that that would be Jack Bash's, you know, just. just be Michael. Set the catch record. You know, 150 catches in coming for Jack Best.

Okay. This is not what we're like, we're like 15 guys in and we got a comp from Michael Thomas, not bad. D. Nice. The negative for him is he's just not that fast.

I mean, he's kind of slow. And so he's not going to be an explosive, take the top off a defense type of guy. That's just not really his game. Not super dynamic with the ball in his hands. Just a possession receiver. And again, kind of caps out as like a number two or number three on an offense.

And one year of top end, production. That being said, can I break character here and talk him up? Because he is kind of a really interesting player. He, this is, this is something that I can't get over. And obviously, there's so much context here that, like, you have to, it doesn't really matter. But on a team with Malik neighbors, Brian Thomas, Kishon, Booty, and Trey Palmer, all obviously neighbors and Brian Thomas, two the best receivers in the NFL. Booty and Palmer both got drafted. He actually led the team in receiving as a true freshman on a team. with all those guys.

So he's better than all them. Okay, that's what I'm saying. I should have led with that. But he is just a really interesting prospect because he just gets open and catches the football every time. It's almost like a Puka Nakua thing where he's not the biggest or the fastest or the strongest. He's just good at football. So I just kind of like him and think he's going to be a productive past catcher. Craig, I thought like the middle range comp for him, you're going to love this.

Josh Palmer. That's who I comped him to. just a big, strong possession receiver, reliable type of guy. I think the high end would be like a Michael Thomas, Eric Decker type of player where you line them up in the slot. They're just power slot. They're winning and beating smaller inside defenders. Just really reliable to the quarterback.

It's open early in the route. Moves the chains, tons of first downs. And strong at the catch point, things like that. Love to get Kai's opinion. Kai, did you watch how much this year? Did you watch DCU football this year? Kai just watches TV now. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, last, the season before last was a very, very upsetting one for the frog. So I didn't watch as much as I probably should have. And then this season also was incredibly upsetting. Right. But best is just a dog. I don't know. I wasn't aware of him going into the season.

Savian Williams was like the guy. And so anytime I'd turn on the game and I'd just like, he would just pop out for me. Like every time I'd be like, yeah, he's got something. I don't know what that means draft-wise, but I was like, he was at least a, he was the one lone bright spot for me this year. So yeah, I'm all in on Bash, go frogs. Take him number one overall.

I don't know. Why not? Yeah. Well, that's actually like a good summation, just generalizing of just like he's a dog. He's out there just making catches, big time plays. And there's a lot of good comms for Jack Bess, you know, there's, you know, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Eric Decker, Cooper Cup,

right, Alec Pierce. Brandon Stokely. We can start rattling off tight end. Just keep going. Eli Manning. Anyway. Luke Adonchitz. There's just so, I mean, there's so many.

He kind of reminds me of me of me a little bit. Yeah, no, honestly, it does remind me a little bit of Craig. Yeah. Lois box. My cousin, Andy. Milk. Milk plump. Okay, we're going to finish off here with Harold Fanon Jr.

Out of Bowling Green. Tidon. He's 6'3. 241 pounds. He's only 20 years old, so he plays three years at Bowling Green. I need to list

the accolades that Harold Fanon racked up this year. He had 117 catches for 1,555 yards and 10 touchdowns. It was the most

receiving yards by a tight end ever in college, most receptions ever by a tight end. He's the first tight end in an FBS history

to win a conference player of the year, which is pretty surprising to me. He was the first tight end to lead the nation in receiving yards per game

and in the 2024-68 Ventures Bowl, he recorded 17 receptions for 213 yards, which is a single game bowl record for tight ends. So who here wants to argue for this man, D.K., for against. I mean, I obviously want to argue for him. Right. And it is, wow, we finally broke the streak. Fuck!

It is tails. So, D.K., after all that, why am I not buying any of this stuff that Harold's trying to sell me? Well, he played for Bowling Green, for starters. He's undersized. Yeah, 6-3. Not actually the most athletic guy in the world.

I mean, he's like a solid athlete, but not an elite athlete. He has a clunky, herky, jerky running style. If you watch his tape, I remember my first impression of him watching, I was like, wow, this guy moves funny. You know what I mean? But that's not necessarily going to eliminate him. He's going with the leg braces. Right, right. He's doing like the Elvis dance, you know.

he can get caught up in tight coverage in terms of separating early on in his route and it slows up his route timing and kind of just grapples with corners at the top of his stems. He doesn't necessarily block that great. And so essentially he's like, why would you want him to block?

Again, I know, that's fair. Fair. But I mean, basically he's not going to block. You're not going to be asked to block much. I think he will be asked to block. He's like a better than a receiver at blocking, for instance. So if you consider him sort of a big receiver that can block in space on screenplays and things like that.

I think that he has definitely some value. I think to me, my upside comp is an Isaiah likely Johnny Smith type of player where you're utilizing them in the passing game on screens, run after the catch, in the red zone, things like that. But if you're expecting them to be like a normal tight end,

that's going to be tough. I think my worry with him is he gets relegated to tight end two on a team, kind of like likely. And we're just talking about him for the next like three years as this great preseason player who shines when the guy ahead of him is hurt but that he never actually starts or does anything of note.

But that being said, I'm very excited about this guy. Nope, not on do that. I like him. He breaks a lot of tackles. Nope. He's good.

High Fitz. Why is he a Hall of Famer? DK couldn't even get through the shit talking him without talking about how good he is. I mean, that's a good start. I mean, just to reiterate,

most receiving yards by a tight end at his season. He bled. He led college football in receiving, including receivers. All players. Like, he just literally like, that's wild. First time in the FBS history. Yeah, conference player. Like, it's actually like, just all these things are absolutely preposterous.

And again, you go to more advanced stuff, like the highest graded tight end and pro football focus this year. Like, I think to D.K, the last thing DK said was, as he was complimenting with like, most mistackles forced of any tie-down. Like, he forced 34 mistackles, which is crazy. So if he runs weird and he's herky jerky, why is he's so good at evading, He's, he, dude, he's like Marshawn Lynch, bull-legged, duck-footed. And so he's really quick, laterally.

He can change direction. He does the exact same thing, which I love about Isaiah likely, which is Isaiah likely catches the football, squares up his defender like he's playing basketball, and beats him off the dribble. You know what I mean? Like he has like a, like he shakes him. He does the Penny Hardaway killer crossover or whatever. He's so good at just squaring up a defender and beating him off the dribble.

He's not super fast, but he's quick. And, you know, he makes a lot of, it's not broken tackle. it's miss tackles force. And I think that's kind of an interesting way to put it because he's like basically avoiding guys. It's cool. Why? So he'll be like that what round is he going to go in?

I think I would guess fourth because I think it's the double edge sword of the small school small guy. Yeah, six three. So like I just think that that is going to be penalizing for him. But then the fan base that gets him is going to freak out. Like your team drafts Harold Vannon, you're going to flip and just watch. highlights of him all day.

Okay. Just don't let the Ravens draft him and put them at Titan 3. Sick of the Ravens. He's sick of Ravens or you're sick of Mark Andrews. I think it's like of Mark Andrews. Free Isaiah likely. All right. That's it.

That concludes our wide receiver coin flip challenge. We did it. Thank you, Mary. As always, she was good to us today. As always. So when you do the math on getting 10 straight, like correct or not like, it's not, I don't think the math's very hard. It's 50%, you know? 10 in a row?

No. That's just, it's just how. What are the odds of doing it 10 in a row? Isn't it? Oh, I might be stupid. But it's the math's not that hard. Is it still 50%? No.

What? 50%? No way. It's 50%. Oh, I thought that's what Hyphitz was saying. Well, no, it's everything is 50%. Right. Just multiply it.

Yeah. Is it two to the tenth power? No way. Yeah. Well, because any individual order has the same thing. It's just weird when it's 10 in a row. Yeah,

I believe it's two to the tenth power, right? Yeah, two to the tenths. It's two to the tenth, right? Which is like a thousand to one. So, anyway. So correct, you did. I didn't. I swear.

Well, the odds are overwhelming. All right. What do you want to do? emails, you want to talk masters? Master's real quick just because I want to tell you guys that when Rory on the, when we thought he was going to blow it, the sixth time on 18, when Rory has that fairway shot and he puts the gap wedge

into the bunker. My dad calls me and it's like, I could have, I would have put that on the green. You know what's funny about that? You texted us that. And there's something funny about him calling you to say that and not just texting. That's such a big difference because like that, well, actually what happened was he called me like, I want to hit that.

He called my brother, and my brother called me and be like, you got to hear this. Do you? I feel like he does that every week. Isn't that the whole story with your dad? Is your dad a good golfer? He is a good golfer. Okay. He might have actually done it.

But I just, yeah, no. What do you say that? Your dad just doesn't feel pressure. Do you placate him or do you kind of go back at him? He's won tournaments. That one, I actually kind of think he would have. He's a game. He's like, I wouldn't put that on the green.

Are you like, you would have, dad. You're right. I have no way of proving that you wouldn't. I got bigger battles to fight. He still thinks that he discovered Joe Burrow because he watched the fucking college football playoffs. He discovered Jayton Daniels because he saw him handed the Heisman trophy.

Can you have your dad build his top 10 favorite players of the 2024 draft? Yeah, we should do that as a final. That's actually a fucking great idea. Do it. What if he's just as a draft? To be clear. D.K., it sounds like you didn't watch the Masters,

but then you sent me like six golf memes after? So you did consume it in some way. That's kind of like that is my thing. I consume things via Twitter or you're what's wrong with this country. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

I have a family, um, which I don't get to see that much at this time of year. So I was, too many memes. Yeah. I was, well, that's true. That's true. That's fair. Um, no, it's like I've, for some reason, the algorithm after I sent one golf thing to you guys,

it was just pure golf for the next like four hours. hours. It's trying to suck you into the dark side of golf. Join us. My very did not watch the Masters, but I'm kind of starting to pay attention to golf more thing is number one. I'm very happy for Rory. It seems like a great accomplishment for him.

It's cool seeing in real time someone like cement their legacy as one of the great all-time golfers. Like that's fucking cool. This is coming from someone who doesn't fucking watch golf. You actually hate really cool. No, I'm starting to come around on it. It's just that I, when you guys talk about, your golf game.

That's what bugs me. I don't mind talking about golf the sport. It's exactly like fantasy football. I love talking about fantasy football, but when somebody starts telling me about their team, I want to die. Yeah, it's like,

when you guys start talking about what you shot on some course, I'm just like, fucking, I don't care. I don't care. I'm like, nah, I can't do that.

Like, wake me off when you're done talking about it. I'm gosh my eyes out. Yeah, so I just changed my grip on my putter. It's like, why don't we talk about our barbecues next or something? But anyway,

Number one, off the bat, that was very cool. Like the CVS, I think, had the long walk where they followed him in real time after he just won. It's actually some of the best cinematography. It's fucking amazing. It's just them following it. Jim Nant's saying nothing. It's like, it's actually just basking in the moment. Number two, Rory, great head of hair.

Couldn't help but notice how just thick and luscious that that mop is on top of his head. And it's funny because only the sides are gray, which is the only part that touches the sun. never wanted hair more than seeing Rory take his hat off and like fucking mus up his mop on top of after winning the greatest tournament of his life. I'm like, damn, I wish I had hair. DK's getting kind of riled up here. Not only should I start golfing. I wish I should go to Turkey.

He has great hat here. He has some of the best hat here I've ever seen because it's very thick follicles. Right. When you have thin hair and you take your hat off, I mean, it could be doing anything. Oh, yeah. His hair looks great. Number three, this is, I'm just listing the things they sent you guys. Bryson Deschambeau

or how do you say his last time? Deschambo sure. Dechambo he apparently Rory just didn't talk to him the whole day

which is fucking great. Bryson was pissed I kind of loved it. That's not that weird. I know. Literally just Tiger Woods never talked to anybody

in the final round of a tournament. And then there was one other thing there was one other thing that was being shared from the tournament where I can't remember who did it

maybe Jordan Spieth nut tapped a guy like when he was walking by him. Yeah that's what D. Did he do it on purpose? This is agent.

He sackwacked him. What's the point of having friends if you don't send each other golf videos, all right? Honestly, I get it. So yeah, that was my experience watching, quote unquote, watching the Masters. I was also just living at vicariously through Hyphitz who was like melting down all day long. I was emotionally dehydrated. I actually cannot believe, honestly, because I think Rory until this, even though he had won tournaments, it's not a perfect comparison.

And it was kind of like the Buffalo Bill's or Gonzaga. Yeah. Which I think... It had been 11 years since you won a major. Yeah. And it just... The amount of times he blew this tournament and then got it back was like... Honestly, it was exhausted.

It's happening again. It was like... It was the human personification of we're so over. We're so over. We're so back. That happened like six times. I can post that blue sky. I can post that blue sky.

It's so over. We're so back. It's so... Because it's so funny because it actually made me realize how incredible. I never realized how spoiled I was to why. watch Tiger Woods. He was like, well, he's winning on Sunday, so, you know, it's over. Right.

Like, as opposed to Rory, who blows it on the first hole, flows in. Is he going to do the Andy Reed thing now and just win seven straight? Probably. He's going to win. Probably. Yes, because he already won. The monkey's off the back now. Now he'll be stress-free. I mean, it's interesting to read about his experience in the last 11 years where he was

like the golden child. He was like the next phenom. And then this 11-year dry spell. And he basically had to like train his brain to like, uh, figure out how to lose and be okay with it. And it's very fascinating to kind of see his maturation over the years and learn how to cope with letdowns and being the favorite and now kind of fading and figuring out how to fall down and get back up.

The whole live golf thing and the, you know, being the face of the PGA 2 or whatever and all that. He stopped being able to putt basically when he just decided to try to order it. How am I supposed to chip? Resiliency is pretty cool to hear about. But he's going to, it's hard to describe. He'll probably be the, biggest favorite, I guess Scotty probably last year, but like, it's hard to describe how much

he's going to be favorite at the PGA championship because Rory's won the course it's on like five times. It's also nice. Golf needs Rory, to be honest. Rory's really famous and was really famous when he was so young. And I know those guys like Sheffler and stuff like that, but it's not the same. The ratings were down on Thursday because Tiger wasn't there. And it's just a big deal in golf. Like when Tiger's there, the ratings are up by like a third. So Rory like being the guy again, I think it's just honestly very good for golf. Yeah. All right.

You guys want those a couple of emails here? Yeah. All right, email should take Burgess. Again, we're doing the Take Burge. Email you take Burge. This season, last season of this draft, your team, the player, whatever you want, fantasy, other stuff, whatever take Burgess,

email should take Burgess, washing your hands, whatever you want. Okay. We asked you to email in Long Conns, because it started with, you know, lies, parents told their kids, and then now we want things you lied to your friends about. Email us your long cons that you've pulled out of your friends. friends. There's a couple

funny ones. Like, there's just dumb ones. Like, Chase emailed in and said that Andy, he told his friend that Andy Circus played the bear and the

Revenant. There's just, a lot of dumb shit like that. That's a kind of thing where you're just like, oh, okay. Yeah,

there's like, and then you believe it the rest of your life. Yeah, there's like, little ones you slip in. You're like, that's not even a con.

It's just lying. Yeah, I like that. Email and lie to your friend. That's great. I love. There's a fine line, right? Yeah, you could say anything.

I mean, people will believe most things because why would you lie? Like, is it an inherent trust people having your friends? How could you make that up? I feel like that's impossible to make up. Because sometimes it's weird. Like, my friend told me once just like, I'm from Halifax. And I was like, cool. And then like, two years later, she's like, I'm not from Halifax.

I'm like, well, that's a new thing. If I was just like, I'm allergic to blue cheese, you'd be like, okay. I'm like, got you, bitch. I was lying. Like, okay. This was Zach. Zach. Zach.

In high school, a group of friends and I convinced someone before they took their driver's ed that any stop sign with a white border was optional. No. That's dangerous. What are we doing here? The first time they drive with the instructor, the second break was used frequently. Jesus. And then we told them the truth after he killed some people.

Well, they're 15. I don't think they were very smart. Yeah, that's fair. There's a good, this is, well, there's another parent one that may be like, but that is, uh, sticking with the friends thing. This one's from Angus. Angus. Angus. A few years ago, we went skiing with two friends who had not met each other before.

We'll call them Bill and Doug. Okay. Doug had never met Bill before. And after a great day on the mountain, we shared some beers at the bar. And once we returned to the condo, Doug. You shared the beers? Or did you each get your own? What?

Never mind. Is that dumb and dumber? Great. shakes his head. Continue. I don't know what the fuck. It was just a dad joke. Just go.

Okay. Anyway, they return to the condo. Doug asked Bill about his career and how do you afford this ski condo every year. And Bill replies without hesitation that he sells feet picks online. Yeah. And Doug thinks this is a joke or, you know.

And Bill launches into a super detailed description and how his feet are posted online and how he monetizes the business and what leads to some weird but profitable interactions and asks by subscribers and it was very convincing and to the point where Bill has an answer for everything Doug asks

and we passed no judgment because we don't sell feet picks online so Doug goes out to his car to grab something Bill turns to me and says he does not sell feet pictures online. But Doug was so convinced by this that he goes home and starts talking to his wife about how they have to start setting up

a feet picture business online because they want to buy a ski condo. So easy. Doug, Doug's trying to. sell his feetpicks online now. The joke's on him. Now he has a condo, but it's bigger. Honestly, I think that's a great business. It's very lucrative. I think there's too many free feed picks.

Yeah, but there's something about having to pay for it. I feel like I know somebody, I know somebody who sells feet picks or who sold feet picks. I doubt they did. I doubt they still do. Man or woman, because no one's buying male feet picks. well bill and now dumb this is another funny

this is another I find male feet rather gross honestly find all feet kind of gross you're like Hobbit feet that's awful Greg hot take

hot take I don't know clearly people like them that might be a hot take some people really like them I don't care for men's feet this was another good one this is just lined a pair

parents line to kids again. This was a funny one. There's just some meme going around, but someone was like, my parents used to tell my brother and I that we had another brother who turned into a mushroom because he never took a bath

and then they added pictures of this mushroom to the family album. Oh my God. So, like, scroll through this pictures of this one mushroom in the yard and they're like, that's your brother, got to take a bath. Jesus.

I thought was incredible. People have some morbid. I know. What's sad about that is that kid will find out that, I guess he'll be like, oh, I guess my brother didn't turn into a mushroom. that's good, but then he'll learn he just never

had a brother. I don't even know if that's better. Oh my God. A lot of people email, shout out Andrew and everyone who sent us this, that the Licking Hole Creek Brewery in Goochland is open again. Licking Hole Creek. Licking Hole Creek officially open. Shout Licking Hole Creek. Christ. Burry. And wait, where is it?

What city is it in? It's by where Tyler Warren's from. Mechanics is by Goochland. Goochland. I'm going to a wedding in Virginia in September. Should I try to go to this brewery? Yes. Oh, yeah. Get a T-shirt.

A whole creek. Another, I just want to shout out. You guys made fun of me for saying Waffle House was like the pinnacle of American culture. And I went and a lot of people, thank you to people emailed me. I'm not going to even give it any more opinions. I'm going to let, I'm going to just quote Anthony Bordane from his visit to Waffle House. He did an episode with Sean Brock.

He went to Waffle House. Sean Brock's like the mission. I think I watched that one. Yeah. Who is Sean Brock? I think he's a Michelin Star Chef. Okay. There's an episode of Chef's Table Bad.

I remember this, Bordane. Bordane says, no matter how blitz you are or how normal you are, how it's beyond a mad, Waffle House is beyond a magical, spiritual place, an irony-free zone where everything is beautiful and nothing hurts. It's warm, yellow glow is a beacon of hope and salvation inviting the hungry, the lost, the seriously hammered to come inside. And then he compares it to being better than the French laundry. which is the best restaurant in America.

I like him saying everything is beautiful and nothing hurts. He really did have a way with words. What did he say about Denny's? I mean, you can pretty much insert Denny's into that, Greg. You don't get it. We have to go to Waffle House. You don't get it. I'm not saying they're the same.

I was just like D.K. was defending Denny's and loves Denny's. Also, did we say that Waffle House sucks? I just had never been there. I've never been there either. No, okay. I mean, I'm willing to go there. I said IHops pancakes are mid. I stand by that.

I actually didn't disagree. The food is fine. That's being polite. This is an irony-free zone, great. There was a Denny's across the street from that ringer-office. I like Denny's because it's ironic. Okay. I guess I can get behind that.

Okay. Hipster. Also, by the way, wanted to point this out, since you guys were really mean about my pronunciation of Colorado. Yeah. It's Colorado. Over the weekend, a lot of people were like, A lot of people said it's Colorado.

For the record, I checked with Lindsay Jones, who grew up and currently lives in, I don't know, in Colorado somewhere, Denver. And local St. Colorado. End of story. I learned that over the weekend as well. Yeah. They sit Colorado. Also, there was someone, someone replied on Blue Sky that it was Colorado and I said I knew it.

And then a bunch of people below were like, it's not, that's not it. And then I was very confused. So it's good to hear that the locals. I feel like you on air when you said Colorado, you just kind of accidentally said that and then ended up being correct. Do you, is that actually how you say it every time? I feel like he hasn't said that.

We did the show six years. I know. I know that's saying that. That's how I say it. I would love to go back and check. I fucking dare you. No, that's how I say it. Every time we've been talking about Shador and Travis Hunter,

you've been saying Colorado? Yeah, I think so. Okay. That's like how I say it. But then you guys started getting in my head and I was like, I don't know how the correct way to say it is. Okay. You started

It's basically exactly the same. Colorado and Colorado? Yeah. Where is the closest Waffle House to me right now? Craig's done with this. Probably in Texas. They probably have something in Arizona. You know the Waffle House index, right?

Like they check hurricanes, like how much infrastructure has been destroyed or is rebuilt based on whether Waffle Houses are open? What do you mean? I don't get it. Because Waffle Houses are 24-7. So after Hurricanes. hurricane, the Waffle House index is like the government actually uses like how many Waffle houses are open is actually a really good proxy for damage to an area because if Waffle

houses are closed, then like society is not ready to live. Like you can't like have a civilization if there's no Waffle Houses there. It appears as though there are Waffle Houses in Arizona. Kind of nailed that. 18 of them. We should go. Wait. Which state do you think has the most Waffle Houses? I would think it One by far has the most

More than double any other state Georgia I mean I was going to say Florida But the fact you're asking me It makes me think it's not Florida What's your pick? What's your guess? You're taking a long time on this We're talking about Waffle House

Alabama It is Georgia Congrats DGFuck yeah 381 in Georgia Jesus Two in New Mexico What was I thinking Yo I could go to that

Arizona one. I got to go. Dumb guess. That'll be our next road trip. When you guys are in L.A., I'm going to drive you to Arizona to a Waffle House. I just lost all my street credit. It's okay. Saying Alabama is stupid. You had a lot of Waffle House street cred there. Oh, please. A lot of accumulated Waffle House cred.

Yeah. All right. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig. Thank you for listening. Email us your take Burgess. Email us, long cons. Just lies you tell your friends that they believe. Ongoing is the best thing.

The feet thing was good. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Kallis. Thank you, Austin. Thank you, everyone for listening. Lord. Lauren. Thank you, Sammy Davis Jr.

Oh, right back. Cool. Wow. Sure. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. You guys got nothing to say about that.

I'm a fan of Frank and Dean Martin, Sammy, the whole gang. Kind of know he's famous more than I know, like, his, I feel like he's just on Christmas playlist or whatever. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, that's my experience as well. Cool guy, though. Seemed, you know, seemed like a great time in Hollywood. Wait, hold, wait.

All right, there's a lot. I take it back. I don't think I knew anything. I didn't know a lot of stuff going on. I don't think there was some problematic things with the rat pack. Well, I don't think anything. This Wikipedia article is crazy. The best guys, but, you know, it was a different time.

Wow. A lot going on in the Sammy Davis Jr. Wikipedia Oracle. Yeah. I don't know anything about that. Should we, should we talk about something else? Craig, what did you do this weekend? What did I do this weekend?

We can't do that. We can't get into that. it's too long into the show to just get into my weekend casually. What happened on your weekend? Now I really want to know. He was in the original Ocean's 11? All of them weren't. Isn't that the whole thing? Wasn't it Frank and D. Martin? I think I watched that, but I was so young. I don't think I realized that that's who they were. Peter Laffered? Yeah.

You know, they're apparently making an Ocean's prequel starring Margot Rabe and Ryan Gossling as Danny Ocean's parents who taught Danny Ocean how to be a thief and a criminal. the 60s. Oh, yeah. Cool. That sounds cool to me. Yeah. Who's going to direct?

Who cares, you know? It's IP. Just crank it out. All right. Goodbye, everyone.