The Ringer NFL Show - The Domino Effect of the Saints-Eagles Trade, Plus DeVante Parker to the Patriots

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

We break down the details of the Saints-Eagles trade and forecast how it will affect the 2022 draft and beyond. Later, we talk about DeVante Parker’s fit on the Patriots before getting to America’s favorite segment, Two Jargons, One Lie, and later a listener-submitted edition as well. (2:35) – Eagles (20:52) – Saints (30:05) – Patriots trade for Devante Parker (40:55) – Two Draft Jargons, One Lie (46:44) Listener Two Jargons, One Lie Check out The Ringer’s 2022 NFL Draft Guide. Email us! [e-mail]. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Ben Solak, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Listen now. Welcome to the Ringer NFL Draft Show. My name is Danny Heifitz. I am joined by Danny Kelly, Ben Solack, and Craig Rolbeck, and we're coming to you every Tuesday and Thursday to talk everything NFL draft. As always, check out the Ringer NFL draft guide at nfldraft.com. We've got DK's mock drafts is coming there. I think next week. We've got DK is doubling the big board this week at some point.

I don't know exactly when that's going up. It's going up to 75. And I think it's later this week, a little bit later this week. TBD exact date, but yeah. Beautiful. Check that out. NFLDraft.com. Give us a like a preview.

Give us like a spicy checkout by a top 75 because this person is here. Let's see here. Let's see here. My guy, Nick Bonito. I'm all about Nick Medino, boy Amafé, a couple pastures. Big Nick Bonito guy? I do like him. He's explosive.

A little bit, maybe understanding. size, not very good against run, but explosive as hell. Boyo Maffei from Minnesota. Trying to look down my list here. Ooh, Skymore, Western Michigan makes the list. There's a bunch of this stuff. It's going to be really fun. Go check out.

I am with you on Nick Bonita. I am not with you on Boya Mafet. I can't get mad around that. He's traits, baby. He's all about traits. Here's the thing. I've seen better traits. So we're going to...

But anyway, yeah. I've got to bust out the Oscars music again, boys. Come on. Just titillating stuff. right here. You see why we waited to focus on the top 50, generally speaking. Okay. We're going to get into a couple big things that shaked up the giraffe. Shook up, shake. I don't know why I said shaked. Shook. Shook up the draft. I'm shooketh. The Eagles and Saints made a trade. Now, Solac is an Eagles fan from Eastern Pennsylvania. We're going to leash Solac right now.

I'm going to like tie him up around the chair, like the leg of a chair and just going to make sure he can't attack right now. And I'm going to get through that. So of course, Adam Schfter broke the deal and just, I'm just going to read the Schefter tweet. just for the hell of it. Just word soup. Trade all caps, colon. Eagles sending picks number 16, number 19, and number 194 in the sixth round to the Saints in exchange for pick number 18, number 101 in the third round, number 237 in the seventh

run and all caps, a 2023 first round pick and 2024 second one pick, comma, per sources. Saints down at 1619, semicolon, Eagles at 15, 18, period. Love when he sneaks in a semicolon. So I don't know about you guys and how you process information. I have never, literally never been able to read a trade, a sentence with like five picks and figured out what the trade was. So then Schaefter helpfully tweeted a Photoshop that basically explained it. The Saints get 1619 and 194. The Eagles get 18 101 to it.

It's still confusing. You want to hear? I got, I saw on the athletic. Apologies, I can't remember where the author was. They laid it out very easily for my mind to understand what happened. Do you want me to just tell you how to think about this trade? Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Think about it this way. The Eagles traded their sixth round pick to move from 19 to 18. The Saints traded a 22 second, 22 third rounder, a 22nd, seventh rounder, a 2023 first rounder, and a 2024 second rounder for number 16. So in other words, a first, second, third, and seventh for number 16. Does that make sense? I'm still confused. This is the way I thought of it. My turn. My try. You ready? Okay. Yeah, you go. We all get. This is like two jargons, one lie. We all just get back. Which one's the fake trade? Okay.

18 and 19, just erase those. So the exact same thing. Don't give a who. All right. Shut up. It don't matter. The Eagles sent their sixth this year to the Saints. The Saints sent their seventh back.

Erased that. Stay three picks. It's like 40 pick difference. They don't matter. All right. The Saints gave the Eagles this year's third, next year's first, and then a 2024 second for the 16th overall pick this year.

Yeah. Can I go now? Race third. Craig. Eagles planning for the future, Saints getting stuff right now. Yeah? Any day. Well done. Look at all. So I'm going to try to wrap that all. The Saints traded, the Saints got a first for a future first, a future second, and a third. And that's basically it. So I think that it's actually we could, I like how we boil that down and down and down. That's basically what this is. It's as Craig said. The Eagles are like, we're going to push at this in the future. And the Saints, in my mind, are basically saying, We're just going for it. I feel like the Saints have no patience. The Saints are always thinking short term.

And I think the Saints basically sized up the NFC and we're like, all these teams suck. Everyone got worse. The only team that's actually going for it this year is the Bucks, who the Saints beat twice last year. And the Bucks are running it back with Tom Brady and everything. The Saints are like screw that. You're making a Super Bowl run? No, we're going to make a Super Bowl run. And I think that they're just going to try to replace Ron Armstrong instead of left tackle.

I don't think they're getting a quarterback. I don't think they're doing any of that. we can get to the Saints in a second. But Eagles, So lack, I'm unleashing you. How did you feel when the Eagles made this trade? Great. We've talked about this.

Well, actually, first, confusion. And then I pulled out my spreadsheets and my capital. What happened here, yes. Great. And we talked about this on the show previously. And this has been the vibe for, I think, a lot of Eagles fans. This is not the sort of draft that you want to have three first round picks in.

If you could choose to have three first round picks in a draft that you think is bad, which is the general consensus of this draft, or in like a draft of just completely indetermined equality. Next year is a total mystery. You would choose next year because. The Peter Griffin box? Yes.

On average, that unidentified draft class is probably going to be better because it's going to be average than this draft class, which is bad. And so you push one of those first round picks into the future and you say, all right, next year,

if there is a quarterback that we want to trade up for, if there's a veteran quarterback, we want to go acquire, if we get it with Jalen Hertz, and we have better, clarity on what is a really, really, really young roster in Philadelphia will know our spots, our needs a little bit more. That's when we want to have those first round picks. So by by pushing a first round pick into the future, the Eagles are, I think, appropriately understanding both

their timeline as a team. They're not getting suckering in by the fact that they made the playoffs. They know they're a young team. They know they're a growing team. And they are appropriately judging the relative quarterback classes. 2022 is not the year to have the trade up package to go get a quarterback. If there's going to be a year for that, it's more likely to be 2023. It seems the Saints disagree because certainly on the table for the Saints now is that they trade up for a quarterback in this year's draft. And if they have a guy they love, sure, go for it. That's fine. But off my understanding of the class and the consensus, the estimation of the class, it is a bad class. It is preferable to be on the Eagle's side here and to be looking towards the future

to go make your big trades and your big moves for quarterback. Also, in addition to that, there's this chance and it's, I think, a solid chance. The Saints are just a dumpster fire this year. And this draft pick ends up being a top 10 pick in 2023, right? Kind of like what we saw with, you know, the Seahawks in trading for Jamal Adams. When they made that trade, they didn't think that they were going to be a top 10 pick. Turns out it was a couple years later because everything fell apart.

You know, there's been examples of this over the years. The dolphins thought they were contending team and they traded a future first and then they tanked. So I think this is Roseman again, not only pushing things out, but like sort of rolling the dice or at least expecting there's a chance. This could be a really high pick, which

would elevate the value even more. Yeah, Kevin Cole at PFF tweeted about this during the trade happened, which I think it's a stats term called asymmetrical value where basically like the pick the Eagles traded was 16. It's literally the middle pick of the first round. It is average. If the Saints are better, right? The Saints are better than the average team.

And that big goes from 16 to 24. Okay, not great. But like, that's kind of fine. You know, whatever. You're not really losing that much going for 16 to 24. If the Saints are below average and that pick goes from 16 to 8, that jump is huge. it is substantial relative to the drop off of 16 to 24.

So training for that future first and taking that bet on a team being bad is generally a good idea because if you miss the bet, whatever, 16 to 24 kind of sucks. If you hit 16 to 8, huge, huge win for your team. So that makes a ton of sense. And I want to actually jump around to a listener email because of something that you said So lack. And you basically were saying that if you want picks in a draft, you kind of don't want this draft.

So I want to read an email from Dominic who says, draft people are talking about how this is not a good year for prospects just all around quarterbacks every other position why is that a lot of the prospects seem like great talent one of the most athletic classes we've seen what makes so many people look at this class and just go eh i think it's a little bit law of big of numbers you know what i mean like sometimes you're just going to get a bad class right like just you know the the dice are not going to fall your way the athletic thing is in my opinion a little bit of a red hair I think not every class is going to be the most athletic class for forever and forever and forever.

But in reality, like the bad tests, short shuttle three cone that we see at the combine that are run at 11 p.m. at night, nobody's just doing them anymore. You know what I mean? Like, like, and training has gotten so much better and so much more specified that classes are always going to test well. So most athletic doesn't really register for me in the same way that it may have had in like 10, 15 years ago, whatever. The reason we're talking about it is not a great class is because it isn't. You know what I mean? That's kind of why, like, teams have numerical grading scales, right? If you ever see those behind the scenes, draft videos, and you got to look at one of those,

like player tag names, like Trevor Lawrence, quarterback Jags, 8.0, right? They have this numerical grading scale so that way they can compare the relative strength of classes, right? Like, all right, this class had three guys above an eight. Well, this class just on those numerical grading scales that remain objective year over year, this class just doesn't really hold the same water, right? So I think to me, it's just a roll of the dice thing. A couple of other things I think that are variables. here and judging how good a class is.

Number one, this quarterback class is deemed, and I would back it up at this point. Like, I was telling high fits this morning. I'm like, I'm kind of just out on this quarterback class. Like, none of them really excite me anymore. Like, I think Malik Willis is very intriguing, but he has such a low floor too that I'm just kind of out. You go back last few years,

we've had some really, like, exciting, potentially elite quarterbacks that will definitely elevate a draft class and push guys down further for other teams that don't need quarterbacks. So it's just more excited. for everyone else. Now you're going to have like all the top guys go off in the top 10 probably. And then two or another part of this is the fact that there just aren't as many like top tier blue chip elite considered prospects in this class, which is I think pulling down the overall feeling of the class. And number three, which I think is a big part of

it is the 2020 season, the COVID shortened season really fucked everything up in terms of like evaluations, creating benchmarks to excuse me, creating benchmarks. to evaluate these guys based on previous classes. You know, the 2020 season is more or less just like a wash. It feels like because some people, some teams didn't play a full season. You know, a lot of guys opted out. You're still getting guys coming back after opting out in 2020. They play in 2021.

Maybe that their development wasn't quite what you'd expect or whatever. So like the 2020 season, I think, really screwed up the class and the perception of the class and like the overall like typical like journey that some of the, these guys make. And I think that's kind of affecting, like, maybe not necessarily the quality of the class, but just the perception of class. That's interesting because the other thing about the COVID year in terms of this class is like, I don't think pick it's a first rounder without the extra year of eligibility.

Hutchinson probably is because of testing, but he ain't a top five player without the extra year of eligibility. Ritter ain't nowhere near round one without extra year. Like, yes, it threw a monkey wrench in a lot of things, but also a lot of the top guys are only here because they got the extra year. But it does make it weird because also they're super old and super old prospects get discounted. So it throws it off. Well, and then maybe that's perhaps why this is a weak class if everyone's like these late year, late in their college career players.

Yeah. So I think it makes a ton of sense with all that said, why the Eagles basically took, look at their three first run picks and we're like, let's punt one of these into next year when everything's going to be better. So what that said, Solek, Eagles still have two first run picks. They've got 15 and 18. They need a bunch of things. They need an inside linebacker. They need safety. They need cornerback.

They need edge rusher. They need receiver. They need basically edge rusher plus everything they've always needed for four or five years. What do you want them to do now at 15 and 18? Want. I would like defensive football players who can be on the team. Football playing jessies. Playing football with on the defense where they stop people with defense.

Somebody put in the in the replies to the chef to tweet. And I like people who just like want Twitter clout. just like reply and Schefter's sweet and hope they got a bunch of retweets and whatever. Somebody put the Eagles projected starting defense for this year, and I wish I had saved them. I forgot to. But along the defensive line at linebacker and at corner and safety in the secondary, it is the exact same unit as they had last year.

They lost Alex Singleton and Free Agency. And then they tried to get corners and they tried to get safeties. They were in on Marcus Flows. They're in on Marcus May. nobody came. So they re-signed Derek Barnett and they brought back Anthony Harris and it is the whole same unit.

And this defense was abysmal last year. So you had Hassan Reddick. That's your one big ad. And in the back seven, it's exactly the same. So I would love to see linebacker. They're never going to do it because of Howie. So if you can get a corner, Kyrieu'll him out of Florida.

If you're getting McDuffia out of Washington, that's probably a little bit early for him, but whatever. If you can get a safety, right, if you're willing to take Lewis Seen that earlier, trade back little, but taking them in the 20s out of Georgia. Kyle Hamilton falls, because apparently that's a thing. You go ahead and you take one of those players.

Like Hamilton would unlock this defense in a way that you can't even begin to describe. These players are critical. They're not going to do that. They're going to take a wide receiver and a player along the defensive line. But I would love to see them go in the back seven, and I will dream about that until April 28th when they shattered my dreams. I keep putting Carloft as to the Eagles. Even going back to when they had three first rounders,

I would always do some combination I feel like a corner receiver and edge rusher like you said and Carlottis Mcduffey always seemed to Carloptis is an edge rusher from Purdue he's very athletic guy kind of like a power rusher

not super bendy but he kind of I don't know what would be your take on that if they got Carloptus I would like it Carloptus a little bit freaks me out I was combing him to Trey Hendrickson before Edithson

measured in with like some of the shortest arms ever and Carlopis actually came in a little bit longer than I thought but Carl Loftus doesn't play with a lot of lengths like D.K. said, doesn't play with a lot of bends. But when he gets you at a phone booth, he beats you at a phone booth. He does it consistently. That would, that would

track for what the Eagles liked with Roseman. With Gannon, it's a little bit different. Gannon and with the Colts typically have it's a little bit longer, bendier guys, guys who are a little bit quicker. Hassan Reddick and Josh Sweat and other starters. I'd be surprised if they went Edge early, to be frank with you, now with the Reddit contract. I think DeVids have tackled because they,

you got to remember, cut Fudger Cox there for like two minutes this off season. and they don't have a plan behind him. So I think given's tackle is very possible. I think corner and wide receiver would be my guess where the two picks end up being. They're going to do, like they've done a round two or better wide receiver

in the last three classes. Jay J. J. Jarethigal and Reiger and DeMonday Smith. They're going to do it again. They have to because the receiver room is one of the worst in the league. They couldn't get any free agents. They tried. None of them came. So they signed to Zach Pascall.

And this whole pushing the first round pick a year into the future means that they're evaluating in Gila Hertz for another year. If you're doing that, you got to get them actual freaking football players, baby. Can't be thrown it to great ward if we want to know if this guy's good or not. So they're like wide receiver in the first round again for the third consecutive year is absolutely 100%. I would say not only a possibility, I would say it's the most likely position they pick in the first round right now.

What do you think makes the most sense for that spot? Because there's six guys that have been roundly mocked to the first round or whatever. But you say mock like made fun of or mock like mock drafted because I actually. mock drafted. Some of those players who get mocked in the first round, I then mock those picks, but that's just a little bit too much mockception. That'll be the next episode of our D.K.'s mock draft.

We're going to be mocking D.K.'s mock draft. That's what I mean. Who do you like the most? Indian. London, if he makes it, don't think he does. They need a ball winner. They need a guy who can play on the outside. Devonte Smith, impressive beating press,

impressive downfield, but it's not... You don't want to be hanging your hat on that when the guy's like 175 pounds. You'd rather that be like a cool thing he can do as opposed to we need this to survive. And they wanted to throw a lot of vertical balls and they wanted to throw the ball outside of the numbers. So Drake London is perfect if he's there.

If not, my man, Trayland Berks makes a lot of sense. They like to throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage. They try to get that role with Jalen Rager. It wasn't working for Rager. And then also Berks can play on the outside. So Berks at 15 to 19 is very interesting, especially because

Burks ain't making a pass Cowboys at 24. Cowboys are not hiding this. Jerry Jones is from the University of Arkansas and they brought Berks in for a top player visit, which they always bring in their first round picks for player visits since like 2013 or whatever. They're going to take Berks and he's there at 24. This is like the big open secret right now

in the draft is they love first. And you got to remember, the Cowboys snagged C.D. Lamb from the Eagles a couple years ago. And so if the Eagles have a chance to take Burks before he gets to 24 with Dallas, they're going to do that. And they're going to love it. Burke sounds good on the Eagles.

We should talk about Jalen Hertz a little bit too. So now, like you said, Ben, you get another year of him. And the next year with the quarterback class is a lot better. The Eagles are going to have two first-round picks in next year's draft. And that now makes it five teams that are going to have two first-round picks in the 2020 draft. And a lot of the teams suck. It's like the Lions, the Seahawks, D.K. It's the Dolphins, Texan Seahawks, Lions, and Eagles.

Right. So the quarterback market is going to be hot and heavy next year with all those teams. Are you happy, Ben, that you get one more year of Jalen Hertz? he obviously showed a lot of flashes last year. I feel like this is kind of the perfect window to either decide if you're in or you're out. When people ask me at the end of the season, what's the book on Jalen Hertz right now?

I said, he played well enough that you can take him to be quarterback next year, and it's absolutely justifiable. Nobody will blink, right? If he was worse, and you tried to do the Deshaun Watson thing and try to do the Russell Wilson thing, and you're like, oh, we're bringing it with Jalen Hertz.

People would be like, this is bad, like you failed. Hertz was good enough that you can try all that and everybody gets it. And then when it doesn't work, everybody's like, yeah, so you're another year of Jalen Hertz. We'll see if he can keep getting better. And Hertz has gotten better in six consecutive seasons, going back to his freshman year at Alabama,

which is incredible, right? His work ethic is off the charts. So it's exactly the sort of position you want to be in when you're waiting for the one. You know what I mean? He's just, there you're just treading water with Jalen Hertz. He's reliable.

He's impressive. He handles his business. He's great on a mic. He's great in a locker room. And then when you flip him for a second round pick next year and you trade up for C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young, everybody's going to get it. Because Hertz is a limited player.

He's good at what he does. If they bring in a guy like a Trailer in Berks and they develop more of this behind the line of scrimmage, college style offense, they can be another decent offense. It can be another like near, you know, top 10, like between 10 and 16 offense again. Cool, but you just know there's a ceiling on that.

So I'm perfectly fine with another year. So long as we're still honest about what the evaluation is on Hertz by the end of the 2022 season. It doesn't feel like when the Giants bring back Dingell Jones every year and everybody kind of goes, they grunt. Oh, great. Like this is like, oh, yeah.

Jaylon Hertz needs one more year. Like, he was been good enough. Sorry, Hyphids. No, you're not. You're not sorry. It's very true, especially because of the relative draft capital. When it took Daniel Jones at 6th, like, all this better work. When Eagles took Hertz at 53, it was all this better work because they had Carson Wentz,

and then Wentz left. And Wentz has been horrible. And so it's kind of like, oh, feel good story for Jaylon Hertz. And that train will keep riding. Everybody loves a feel good Jaylon Hurts story because Jaylon Hurts is the freaking man. He's awesome. He's so much fun to root for. And that's why everybody's okay with just, yep, nothing.

you're jailing. Yeah, there are a lot of teams that decided to kind of, they fished around for a quarterback and decided to just do a holding pattern. It's like the dolphins figuring out what they got with two of the Eagles doing the herds, the Giants union that Daniel Jones, the Falcons are just doing a year of whatever with Mariota. And then there is the other team in this trade, which is the Saints who fished around for different quarterback.

And they were like, oh, screw, let's go back with James Winston, even though he's recovering from that ACL tear. And I feel like they're not going to take a quarterback, though. I really do feel like they're doubling down and they're just really trying to go for in the NFC. I mean, either you disagree, like Sillac or DK, do you guys think they might take a quarterback? Because my gut here is that they're just trying to load up and they want a left tackle, either the package those two picks to trade up or they just want two starters. So I don't know if they're going to take a quarterback. I do think it, to me, it feels weird

that they would trade all this stuff, a first, a second, a third, or whatever, whatever the packages, first, second, third, and seventh over a course of several years. That feels like a fucking shitload to give up to pick up some random mid-round first-round pick. Where you don't know who's going to be there. You don't know who's going to be there. It's going to be like the third or fourth or fifth tackle on the board. I think what they're doing, it feels to me like there's another shoe is going to drop. They're going to package these two picks they have in the first round now to move up.

And the reason that they traded to get into the middle of the first round is because some team in the top five or top eight or whatever it is going to be would be happy to move back if they're picking up two first rounders, in other words. rather than like, oh, we're trying to get to top five with like some random player that we have. That might not work with a lot of teams. What they did is they went and got two mid-round first rounders. And it feels to me like they're going to use those to package and move up into the top five or top eight or whatever it is.

From there, so like that's just an assumption I'm making. That's a logic leap. I don't know if it's going to happen, but that's how it feels to me. From there, I don't actually know if it's going to be to trade up to pick a fucking quarterback. the Saints are the wild card of wild cards when it comes to trading up.

Like the general rule is you don't trade up, you don't give away future firsts to take a non-quarterback, but they do it. They've done it. And I was told before this trade went down, someone was like,

I think they're going to trade up and take a tackle. So maybe this is actually for a tackle because you're going to have to trade in the top five to get one of the elite tackles in this class. I think it's either going to be a tackle or a quarterback.

Well, I was going to say, as you alluded to, DK literally like three years ago. In 2019, it was three years ago. That's really tough for me personally. But in 2019, they traded up a first round pick. They traded a future first to move what?

Like seven spots, eight spots up with the Packers to get Marcus Davenport, who's a defensive end. And the Packers traded back, picked up a first. And they drafted Jire Alexander, the cornerback out of, I think, Louisville, who might be a better player outright. And they got the extra first round pick. And it's a different round. It's, you know, it's one of those things where I don't think that just because they made such an aggressive move that they're going quarterback, I actually agree with you, DK.

I think that during the tackle spot, I was talking to someone, I think, you know, and they made a really good point that the only thing I'm confused about is why the Saints did this early, because if you're going to, as you're saying, trade it for a player, two things. One, why wouldn't you wait to see if the player's still on the board or falls? And then two, did you really need this other pick to make that trade? Like, isn't your first issue? year, your first next year, a second, a third, like all these other picks they have up. Isn't that like a better trade package than what they just have now to try? That's the part of this I don't understand. And as much as I try to understand what NFL teams do, the saints are like impossible. I kind of thought this crazy, we're just living on the bleeding edge every year.

It's like the last year we're going to do this was like going to end when Sean Payton stepped away. And I'm kind of amazed that the saints are still living this life in the fast lane, honestly. Right. Right. Like when Sean Payton and Drew Bree is, we're enabling Mickey Loomis just go all in every year. You were like, yeah.

And now it's Dennis Allen and James Winston and Mickey's still like, I do not give a hoop, brother. We out here, we live in, which I greatly appreciate. We don't know if we're going to be alive at this time. Yeah, exactly. Mickey Loomis is a big anarchist.

He's not sure if anything's real. The, yeah, that Marcus Davenport trade is, firstly, it's hilarious to look back on. The Saints went from 27 to 13 to go get Marcus Davenport. Then the Packers, with that 27th pick, traded up to 18 overall to get Jair. DK., who had the 18th overall pick?

And who did they then take it 27? Oh, do they take LJ. Collier or the guy never played? Oh, Penny. Oh, my God, Penny. A hilarious sequence of trades for three separate NFC contenders at the time. But whatever.

The fact that it happened now, as opposed to draft day, is what's interesting to me. Because on draft day, the second day made the trade, everybody was like, this is Lamar. You don't trade a future first

on draft day. You're moving up, because Lamar is falling, that guy's falling, let's go get him. You don't do that. But apparently the Saints do, and they do it for a non-quarterback.

They do it for Marcus Davenport, which makes calibrating to this trade really tough. What leads me to believe that quarterback is a high possibility. I would put it at less than 50%, but still like 40% chance, they're going for a quarterback, is what we've talked about previously high fits.

It's bad class. Nobody wants any of these quarterbacks. But if you really do want one of them, trading this year is going to be a lot cheaper than it wasn't years past. And so, all right, you trade a future first and a future second to get another pick in this first round. And then you trade both of those, but also maybe not? Like, what if they love corral?

And all they're going to do is move from what, like 16 to 12 to go get him? And then you still have the first round pick. Because the part of this I'm confused by two is if we're taking your logic to the extreme here. And we're kind of down the wormhole. But not really, because if they want a quarterback, this is totally the scenario. And the quarterbacks are falling to them.

And the crowd thing's totally possible. They have to move up because they got 16 from the Eagles. The Eagles had 15, 16, and 19. But like the Eagles are still ahead of them. So the Eagles could still literally, even though the Eagles just got this pick these picks from the Saints. The Saints are still behind Philadelphia and they can still be like, hey, we're going to take other offers for the quarterback you want. You're going to have to move up again.

Like, you might have to move up another spot with us. Like, if the Saints are going to do this, why at the very least wouldn't you move up to 15 with the Eagles and like eliminate the possibility of the Eagles like selling you out and like, you know what I mean? Like the Pax Lashers waited for Mac Jones at 15 and got him. But the Saints now are kind of like, well, the Eagles might not take a quarterback, but the Eagles might trade down. I don't know. The whole thing is. weird to me. I don't run an NFL team. There's probably a lot of reasons for that. But I, I don't know. What do you think of the idea of the Saints trading up to number five with the Giants for those two middle rounds?

I was actually thinking that. It's like, they'd have to steal Kenny Pickett from Carolina. Exactly. Exactly. Do the Saints really need to do that? Like, DK, 10 minutes ago, you were like, I'm out on these quarterbacks. Why do that? I'm not running the Saints. If you just, if you really like one of them, if you do like them, then trading this year is probably going to be cheaper, right? You can go and and make the moves. Set yourself up and have the flexibility of another first round pick and get you out or whatever. Listen,

it's bad. If Mickey Loomis decides the future of the Saints is Kenny Pickett, it's objectively horrible and I'm going to laugh. I get why he thinks he can do this because he's done anything he's wanted for the last 10 years and never died. This is the fact that the Saints and Eagles make this trade is two perfect examples of what GMs with job security do, whatever they want. You know you're going to be there next year. But not to linger. I think you're right.

And Howie Roseman just got a contract extension, which is why they're doing it. And if Craig had the Oscars music, he'd be playing us off. I think the other part of this is, like, teams look at different charts, like chart arbitrage. This is like my new obsession is like the large majority of the league. Teams have draft pick charts and the assign each pick a value so that they can think it's like a calculator. And that's how they do the math of what these picks are worth. Somehow, some way, the majority team still use the chart Jimmy Johnson used like 40 years ago for the Cowboys, which is literally older than free agency itself.

Is there already 40 years ago? Jeez. So I know, right? And so, I mean, it's older than free agency. The chart is older than this collective bargaining agreement, which lowered the artificially lowered the salary of rookies and changed the value of picks themselves. It's insane.

But most teams use this. And the handful of teams that are smart, the Eagles, one of which are one of them, that use like new modern charts that don't undervalue the second, third, fourth, fifth round picks. This seems like the Eagles literally just like lined up something that kind of made sense on this Jimmy Johnson chart and totally made

total sense on their real chart. It's like, you ever been in a fantasy draft where some people are just using like the wrong like the settings of change and no one really knew? And then it adjusted. It's like showing up to the PPR draft and you don't know what's PPR. That's kind of what the Saints did in this deal.

I don't know. I feel like that really isn't the core of what's going on. Plus what Solic said at the beginning about pushing draft picks into the future. Anyway, there was another trade that was made since we last did our pod, which was the Patriots traded for Devante Parker,

the receiver from the Dolphins. And then I can't say that word, so like just, you know, a lot of listeners really hate that I say dolphins. Dolphins. New York comes out. Anyway.

Very sad on the view. Yeah. Don't say that. But anyway, Patriots get Tivante Parker, the, Miami gets to the 2022 fifth rounder and then a third rounder next year.

We kind of love Devante Parker. I don't know if, I mean, Craig is obsessed with Devante Parker. I first of all, I want to hear if you guys believe Devante Parker has juice because obviously the dolphins had Tyree Kill and don't need him a ton anymore. Do you guys think Devonty Parker could actually be like a legit number one for the Patriots or are we just too obsessed with him? What do you think so? I would like to hear why Craig loves Devante Parker.

Nothing analytical. Every time I watch him, I think he's better than we think he is. I know he kind of gets hurt a lot and I mean, he's had no help in Miami for his entire career. But the times when Devante Parker has somebody who can somewhat throw him an accurate football, I think he's an underrated number one ride receiver, and I enjoy him. I very much appreciate that explanation because I'm currently in the throws of the Nicole Yokic Duelan beat MVP debate in the NFL, and all of Sixers' Twitter is just full of that boy can ball memes, because Yokic is all these incredible advanced stats, and like it beats like second and third, it's like, yeah, but watch him.

Yeah. And beats awesome. And that's the Devonty Park argument. I love a good ball winner. Every team needs one. Great to have a guy who can just go up and win a contested catch, especially when your quarterback maybe doesn't have the strongest arm in the world. Cough, Cough, Cough, Mac Jones, and Cough.

Third round pick? I'd rather spend a third round pick on a guy who's five, six years younger and has a similar skill set and doesn't have an injury history. I think you could have done that. So, sure, but also Belichick's history of trading for and drafting receivers is just every subsequent move is another hit. for Belchick and water receivers. Does it kind of feel just like this is what all they had left on the market?

So this got Devotei Barker because they're like, yeah, he's good enough and there's no one really left we can get. It feels like that. And it also feels like this guy moths Stefan Gilmore once and I watched it happen. And whenever it's like, it's a team getting a guy who used to be in their division so, so often. They had a good game against them. We had a really good game against us. Yeah. And it just sticks in your mind.

100% so like. I think the most underrated part of how teams. teams build their teams is what else is going on in the division. I think the Saints did this trade with the Eagles because the bucks brought Tom Brady back. And I think that 100% Devante Parker has one good game against the bats. I mean, it's probably why the Niners traded up for Trey Lance because Matt Stafford went to the Rams. Yeah, it's personal. Like, people really underrate that.

And people underrate the guy having a good slash bad performance when you were there. Yeah, totally. It shouldn't matter. But I'm telling you, like, like in terms of your own mental biases. go watch one random football game of a team you don't root for. And don't tell me you pick a player or a coach or a unit or a team from that game. And all of a sudden, you care about them more than you should.

Like the kind of his jib. I watched a, when Derek Rose was, when I was in school in Chicago, Derek Rose was super, super injured and had one like incredible game. Like it was a season full of injuries. You had one incredible game against Golden State. And from that moment on,

I was like, you know, he was playing a lot better than I thought. Derek Rose. I watched no subsequent Bulls games, but I was positive because I was there that Derek Rose was on the upsway in terms of his play. I mean, this is kind of like, you're just kind of describing

sports media and like most podcasts. It's just like the people... Whichever games people watch, they just talk about those games and think those players are better or worse, depending on how they played on the one Saturday they watched them this week. Right. So like, we're talking about Daryl Morey a lot, I think I feel like in this podcast. But isn't that a Daryl Morey rule where

Darry tries very hard to not meet certain players before they sign. I don't know if it is or isn't, but given who Darrell Mori is, I would be zero percent surprised if that's a thing. Don't quote me on that, but I believe I saw that Darrell Mori doesn't always, like, to keep, because you get biased when you can meet some potential free agents or potential and like not others. It's like, you either want to give equal timing or like not. You know, this reminds me of high fits is, and I've seen this like from a lot of NFL

scouts, like just a general big picture scouting discussion. like, you know, Jim Nagy from Senior Bull talks about this all the time. Like, it's very important for scouts to get out on the road, go watch these guys live. You get a different picture. You get a different, like,

impression of what they look like, their body composition. Like, do they have huge? Like, are they broad-shouldered or whatever? Like, for instance, the Seahawks used to talk about, like, hand strength. And they put their hands on you.

You know, like, what's it feel like. D.K. says used to, but they did that literally, like, three years ago with Collier. That's not a used to. That's a current.

I was leading of Collier. Thank you. This is exactly a shirt off. Peacrell took a shirt off when Dickie Metcalfe on. It was like, oh, flex. I think it's interesting because on one hand, I get it. Like, I think it does make sense. Like, you want to get and meet these guys and see them in person and see what they're, like,

what kind of athlete they are. But also it's like so many bias traps there. Like, you know what I mean? The whole put their hand, like, LJ Collier, first round pick for the Seahawks a couple years ago, literally can't get into a game. He can't get into a game on a team with a bad defensive line. first round fan

and the thing that they were like citing strong hands like oh strong hands he puts his hands on you and you can't move blah blah blah like all this like sort of weird you know just basically scouting like bullshit but it's like I don't know like it's a double-edged story because I do understand it

and I think it is important to meet these guys and to get to know them and see them in real life and watch them play in real life but there's so many traps there too well I think that we've talked about this a lot where with quarterbacks where we're basically at this point where look we have a lot more numbers and we understand more about what matters and we have more data. We also deeply understand that whatever Joe Burrow just did for the Cincinnati Bengals matters, culture matters, like work ethic,

mental, like having like a growth mindset, like your mentality, it's like at a certain point when you have the physical traits, the mental intangibles are actually more important to making it in a pro athlete in a world where people are coming for your job 24-7. Yeah, yeah. The flip side is that when you go out in the world and try to like have takeaways, we usually take the wrong things away. And like, even though we know those things matter, we can't, we are really bad at like predicting who has them and who does not. And then we also get screwed up because outcomes actually screw us up all the time. Like the Rams almost lost to the freaking Buccaneers because Cooper Cupp almost ran that, you know, if he doesn't make that threat of Cooper Cup at the end

the game, the Bucks lose the, the Rams beat the, sorry, the Rams lose to the Bucks. Chiquisky Tart, the Niners safety doesn't just drop an arm punt from Stafford. The Niners would have gone to the Super Bowl. The Bengals almost won in the last drive, and yet we're like, oh, all about the Rams. It's like, every year we kind of get tripped up over the specific outcomes when it's like, honestly, there's a few

teams that could win the Super Bowl every year. The bills might have won. It's so, we kind of just always get confused, honestly. Anyway, with all that said, uh, the flip side is the Patriots, I think, now that they have Devante Parker for better or worse,

I feel like they're going to go defensive. defense now. And the draft, they really need a cornerback. They let J.C. Jackson go to the chargers. They have like no linebackers of note who could start for them, which is a pretty important position for Belichick. I'm curious who you think the Patriots will go with at their picking 21st, I believe. Yeah. I think it's tough because if I think the Parker trade, if anything, just was a hedge that makes them not have to pick a receiver here. Right. Like it's, this is what a lot of teams do is like they'll sign a guy or trade for a guy who's not necessarily a superstar, but someone that they can win with, you know, that year. And so it doesn't, like,

pigeonhole them into taking a certain position. I think, I think linebacker is certainly a possibility. Devin Lloyd, Nicoby Dean, maybe Quay Walker. There's a couple of guys I think fit sort of the Patriots mold. And all those guys that I mentioned, by the way, are kind of all different styles. And so I don't know exactly what they're going to like. Generally speaking, they've liked bigger guys that are really versatile. So maybe that's Quay Walker. Maybe he's a surprise first round pick from Georgia. And he's the first linebacker taken. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever because he's, you know, a one-year starter who kind

of came on strong last year played for the national champions. But he, you know, is less known, less famous than his own teammate Nicoby Dean, who is really, really fast and explosive, but very small. And I don't know if he fits necessarily their mold or what they're looking for. So, yeah, I think that's a very tough one to decide. And I've been going back and forth with it on my mock drafts is like, who do I get this guy? I'd be like, Devin Lloyd, who, you know, I think.

versatility-wise, he fits what they want to do. I don't know if he's necessarily a Patriots, quote-unquote Patriots linebacker, though. And I think Nikovi-Dien is the other guy that I see a lot of people give to the Patriots at that spot. And he's like 5-11-220-something, which doesn't really make sense to me in terms of what they, like, that's opposite of what Dante High Tower is, right? So I don't know. It's tough. I think they could still take a receiver, honestly.

Although I'm sure, like a lot of fans probably hate that because they've just been so terrible at it in the past few years. but I think the bottom line is, and I know I'm fencing here, but I think it just makes them so they don't have to take any one position. Yeah, I think right. Devante allows you to not take wide receiver in round one if it doesn't fall to you, but you still can if it does. Linebacker's potential, it'd be really interesting. Who they take a linebacker is going to be really interesting

because last year they had Juan Bentley and Duntahit Tower, two just absolute hammerhead sharks, two just nut cases on the football field. Yeah. And they just let those, like, nobody played their linebackers the way the Patriots did because nobody employs guys like the Patriots do anymore. Like, all the linebacks are very fast in cover. And the Patriots said, who are two 250 pounds, just jackhammers? We're just going to throw them at the offensive line, just psychopaths.

And so they lose High Tower. They saw Bentley. If they want to find that second guy, it's really tough to in their early rounds. Because all the linebackers coming out now are like 235. And they need that guy to be like 250. That's Leo Chanel out of Wisconsin. That's Dary and Bivers out of Cincinnati. So they'd have to go middle round at that.

Or they can go for a different type. And then offensive line. They lost so many offensive linemen this year. I think that early offensive line should not be out of the realm of possibility, especially with no Dante Scarnacia, their old offensive line coach in the building. He retired. And Scarnacia was why you were drafting fifth round picks and making them into superstars. Right.

He ain't there anymore. So it's time to start maybe investing some early round picks at that position. And I think offensive line, interior or outside would make sense. All right. I think it's time for America's favorite segment. Two jargons and a lie. Yeah. All right.

we have today no theme but I tried once again to have good actual jargon so Craig doesn't yell at me one hands like feet okay two hot tub club three

hot tub club yeah two hot tub club a very delightful one three uses as egg beaters okay so two of these are two of these are real one is fake I read them again hands like feet hot tub club uses his egg beaters uses his egg beaters so uses his egg beaters i know when people say egg beaters is like a like a water polo term right or it's like a swimming term right you use your egg beaters to

keep yourself swimming when you play water polo it's your legs turning under water polo is that right it's actually a football term he's not going to tell you i've never heard of the water polo term oh i had a couple friends who played water polo in high school i think egg beers is a thing i'm sure we'll get emails correct me if i'm wrong about that you're high school at a water polo team yeah What a California-ass thing. I was thinking about breaking that down, yeah. By the way, a little callback here. George Karloftus, who we've been talking about

potentially mocking to the Eagles, was on the Greece national water polo team under U-16 or something when he was like 12 years old or 13 years old. So he's a freak athlete. Waterpoles players are ripped. Oh, yeah. Dude, Carloptoes is like...

I love stories like that, though. Carlopthus is like one of the craziest athletes. The stuff he does off the field to train is like insane. look it up. I could never get enough draft stories of guys who were playing way, way above their age bracket, but also guys who were playing with other people above their age bracket. Like, I always love

that, like, the two Upton brothers were playing with, like, David Wright and Ryan Zimmerman and, like, the Little League team. And I always like that stuff. I love Carlophtas. I love that. So we have hands like feet, hot tub club, and what's the egg beaters one again? Uses his egg beaters. I feel like...

I think Hot tub club is real. Is that like a Matt Leiner joke? What the hell? What does Hot Tub Club mean? I have no idea, but that's why I think it's real. Hot Tub Club. It does sound so delightful, doesn't it? Hot Tub Club? Is this a move?

Hot Tub Club? The Hot Tub Club, like a club move? Oh, it's like a club. Yeah. Do we want definitions? No, no, no. I'm just trying to steer them astray. Hot tub club, I just, to be honest, they don't know the answer.

And then. I mean, hands like feet, right? Is that the classic? He has shitty hands? I mean, yeah, I certainly don't think there's a, another interpretation. So actually, poker face is pretty good.

Yeah, he runs upside down. And a handstand, just down the field. Riven it. Cartwheels. If his feet were like hands, that could be really useful.

And then you use it his egg beaters. Egg beaters got to be real. I feel like hands like feet, even if someone says it's a lie, I could find people who've used that term. I know. Hands like feet has to be real. And if he says it's fake,

I will Google it until I find it. And then I think a hot tub club is fake. And if it's not, I can't even, venture to guess what that would mean. But don't you think, Ben, unless he's a layer deeper than I am now, in which case, congrats to you, Ben.

We're like, it's such a ridiculous term. I can't imagine that it's not real. We just got reverse psychology by D.K. Like, last, like, two episodes ago. I know, but I'm like, how would you even think of Hot Tub Club? Like, I guess you're just like watching, we were watching Hot Tub Time Machine last night? Yes.

I was thinking about that. Rimes. I was rhyming down rhymes. Hoping to come away something cool. I think hands like feed is fake And then Josh Rosen also did the Hot Tub Club thing No I think I think Hot Top Club's fake

I'm locking that in finally A Hot Top Club was made by Josh Rosen Okay so Hyphen says Hot Tub Club And Craig you say hands like feet Yeah I'm going against the grain here I'm picking like the 15 seed to beat the two seed I'm saying hands like to both be wrong So

Hands like feet Wow he got them both Hands like feet is as Craig said It stops when a guy can't catch He's got hands like feet I just going to do it. Hot tub club is, I had not heard this one previously. I found it on a list.

I can't wait for this one. Hot tub club is the guys on the team who are consistently injured, right? The guys who just always have injured by them. Oh, no. They're always in the hot tub or they're always in the ice bath. Oh, that is amazing. The hot tub club, yep. And we're adding that to the fantasy list of jargon we're using.

Hot tub club is now there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So right, when you're drafted Will Fuller in the 15th round as a fly, you're like, listen, brothers in the hot tub club. You had said cold tub club? Saycoa Markle is the captain of the hot tub club. There you go.

And then he uses his egg beaters. Man, oh man, if I had known Craig had water polo in his high school, I would have pulled this one out so much earlier. But I also did know egg beaters as water polo dog it. And so I was like, oh, I'll just steal one from another sport and that'll be like a good fake. You know what I mean? Because it's obviously been used somewhere. And the moment Craig was like, well, egg beaters is a water polo thing. I was like, oh, I've got him.

We're good. I did not think that Waterpole Esoteria would make it on the jargon. You played that off really well. You really acted like you had not heard of that. I know, yeah, no. Little devil? Yeah, you suck.

That was a psychological game. It's not about what's on the page, but it was on the face. Play the man, not the cards. Baby-faced, baby fact. Uncle baby, Betty. Yeah, baby Betty. Also, I got to tell you guys,

I googled hands-like feet. And the first thing that came up on Google was, like, they must have thought about hand-like feet. and Wikipedia entry for prehensile feet, which are, I'm not even good, like, it's like monkey feet where you have like a thumb on your, it's, anyway, that's what came up

and it's horror on I'm on this Wikipedia now, and I'm leaving because it's really disturbing. Anyway, that was an impressive song. Let's get a water polo, two jargons, one line next. If anybody played, who's listening. Yeah, email to ringer fantasy football at gmail.com, if you have your own two jargons at a lie, please email us at ringerfinacy football at gmail.com,

we've gotten some incredible ones, including I love this one that we just got. This one's from Andy. It's incredible. It's not quite jargon, but I'm letting it slide because it's so creative. Well, as we've learned,

what we call jargon. Idioms are not quite jargon. We're doing whatever we want. Iambic pentameter. These are Shakespeare quotes. Oh, God. That describe the NFL season. Okay.

Last year through the off season. And two of them are real quotes from Shakespeare, and one of them is fake. And I love this. And I'm going to read them, and you guys get it. Number one is Aaron.

Where though, Aaron, wherefore lookest thou sad? Like, wherefore lookest thou sad? Like, why he looks so sad, Aaron. Okay.

Two is, cousins, you know what you have to do. Oh, Kirk, okay. Yeah. And three is those that were overthrown.

From whence did they come? Okay. Okay, so, so cousins, where did, what you know you have to do? Aaron, wherefore lookest thou sad? Did that ring a bell for you, Solek?

You know what you have to do? I cannot emphasize how few bells are in my head to possibly be wrong in the world of Shakespeare quotes. So it rang no bells for me. Cousins, you know what you have to do. That's like from, I feel like that's real. That seems real to me because cousin. I think wherefore lookest thou sad?

It's fucking mouthful. What's the whence one? From whence did they come? Those who've been overthrown From whence did they come Those that were overthrown from whence did they come Yes Not whence like W-E-N-T-Z

It's spelled W-H-E-N-C-E It sounds like W-E-N-C-E Which is hilarious What's hilarious did that come Jay-Sphere just calling his shot 500 years ago man I think that was legit Because like overthrown is like

Like a nation Like a castle I think the Aaron one's fake Yeah I think Aaron is fake Oh, I see. These are actually exact quotes. Yes, you're right. I think so too. All right. Consensus on Aaron. So I actually already saw the answer, but I also guessed Aaron. So we all went on Aaron and that one is actually real. Dang. What play is Aaron in? So let me look it up right now. Let me have it. Oh, wait. It is. Cousins, you know what you have to do is like from Hamlet, I feel like or something. I don't know. So here are the answers.

Aaron, Wherefore lookest thou sad, is from Titus Andronicus, Act two, scene three. Jesus. Okay. Cousins,

you know what you have to do is from much ado about nothing, act one scene two. And the lie is those that were overthrown from Wednesday they came,

which makes sense. This was a fucking brilliant job. Wow. Yeah. That was well done. I got overthroat Wensk,

I wanted that to be real so freaking bad. There is a pun in there, right? Wentz and overthrowing. Yeah. It was really good. That was really well done, Andy.

Okay, emails at ringer fantasy football at Gmail.com. Don't all try to be Andy. Give us two jargons and a lie. Slangs, idioms. I don't know. I mean, you can try and be Andy. That's tough to follow that one, though. I wouldn't follow it exactly.

I would, you know, do your own thing. Jargon, slang, idioms, water polo, whatever. Cousins, you know what you have to do. Ringer Fantasy Football.gum. com. Put two jargons and a lie in the email subject line so it's easier for us to find. I think that's all we got.

D.K has your NFL draft guide. It's updating this week with your big board, your mock draft coming next week. NFLdraft.org.com. My team needs are there. They're updated for these trades we talked about today. Check that out. Thank you, DK.

Thank you, Soak. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Billy Shakespeare. Bill Shakespeare. Big Billy Shakespeare. Billy shakes. Billy shakes. Thank you, Lord.

Lord. Lord. Thank you, Bedhead. Bedhead. Yeah, do you know the song Golden Brown? No. It's like old classic. It's on the movie Snatch. Nothing?

Oh, I love Snatch, but I do not know the names of the song. It's dead. Golden Brown. I think about the snatch line about pigs so much about how he just feeds all the dead bodies to pigs. You think about that daily. Every time I think about killing someone, I'm like, I could feed them to a pig. I think about that with like D.K. and Craig all the time. That is true.

Yeah. I don't know if I want to do the fantasy show with you this year. but I have a whole script idea for this, Craig. Let's talk about it after the show. You have a script idea for the pig quote? Oh, yeah. Yeah, entirely based off the pigs from Snatch. Literally a whole thing on it.

Have it, do you have a script? I feel like you should write a script. I feel like you'd be a script guy. We'll do one together. Okay. All right, that sounds good. I got a couple in the whole series. You can still like what nothing to do with me is.

Yeah. I've lost the thread for that reason. All right. Goodbye, everyone.