The Ringer NFL Show - The Most Boring Players That Will Win You Your League

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

The guys are in-studio in NYC again to discuss the under-the-radar picks that will slip through the cracks in drafts for this year’s All-Boring Fantasy Team. 2:53 - The All-Boring Fantasy Team: Running Backs 32:00 - The All-Boring Fantasy Team: Wide Receivers 1:01:02 - The All-Boring Fantasy Team: Tight Ends and Quarterbacks Getaway sales event. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Ronak Nair, Kai Grady, and Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hive. Today I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Quilbeck in studio. Again, in the World Trade Center. Somehow they let us back into Amy Puller Studio in New York City. Still got the ficus right behind us. Today we are doing the all-boring team, which basically is just a really simple premise, which is what if it's basically impossible to get a discount on cool players,

like cool players in their prime are just never going to be had in anything but either too much value or at value. What if the only actual discounted fantasy is boring? people. But good also. Good boring people. Like we like these players and we think that they'll do well for your team but right now they are to value because they're boring. It's the best idea I think

we've ever come up with. Yeah. I think we're right. I'm serious. Like everybody has oh sleepers, everybody has oh, who's your favorite guy? I think attacking the boring players, the players, the selections that inspire apathy is the most important part of fantasy drafts because everybody's going to go after the sexy players. Everyone's going to go after

Jamir Gibbs. He's going to be impossible to get. But every draft, guys like Mike Evans just sit there. Mike Evans is perfect. He is kind of like the poster child last few years. It's Mike Evans and James Connor. Every year they just sit there and nobody wants them and every year they're top 12 guys. It's the guys that when they go, either no one acknowledges or they're like, yeah, Mike Evans, yeah, yeah. It's the oceans, it's the ocean's love and Matt Damon, it's like the moment we're going to see it,

we're going to like you, and the moment you're gone, I'm going to forget you wherever there. Just like forgettable people. And then that, that really is the key though. Yeah, like if you're drafting on Yahoo, you know, they have the expert ranks and the 80, you know, the average ADP. And it'll have a guy like James Connor. And he'll be sitting there, like, a round or two after he was, quote, unquote, supposed to go. And then that almost kind of starts a snowball effect of nobody wants to be the guy to take James Connor because for some reason, he's still there. And you should just take those guys. You should just take James Connor. So we're half joking about this, but we're actually, actually mostly serious that this is

probably the best idea we've ever come up with. This list is pretty great every year. But first we're going to take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Get into the Hyundai Getaway sales event and get away with a deal. So right, it almost feels wrong. Score a great deal on their adventure ready SUVs like Kona, Tucson, Santa Fe, and Palisade. They're bold and stylish Alantra, their most advanced sonata yet, and the all-electric, Ionic 5 and Ionic 6. Plus every Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty and Hyundai complimentary maintenance. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-3-34-4603 for details. Offers end. September 2nd, 2025.

You a Hyundai guy, DK? Absolutely. Yeah. We're all a hundred guys. Yeah. I love Hyundai. The electric stuff they have is incredible. Yeah. Makes you feel electric. Yeah.

Good one. Wow. That was good. So, and again, there are two qualifications for the all-boring team. One, the guy's boring, obviously. We can, we'll, I'm sure as we go through love qualms with the boringness. There's shades of boringness. And then the other thing is, we're not just mentioning boring people. We're mentioning boring guys that we actually think will be good values this season.

Right. That is the two things. Like, if you're just like, oh, this guy's boring, but Devin's single-old. is boring. He sucks. We don't think you should take Devin Singletary. That's not the point. The point is we're going to try to talk about guys that we actually think exactly what Craig said. Other than people who are hurt or suspended, boring players are the guys that fall down. You actually get the biggest discounts on the entire draft. And it's incredible how often some of the best teams I've ever drafted. People have where it's like, wow, yeah. It's like James Connor fell two rounds.

So that's what we're looking for today. And I just, before we get into it, the only thing I want to say, the theme with these guys is really clear. a lot of it does come down to especially we're going to go to running backs first year all these running backs are kind of laid around running backs that no one wants to acknowledge are good I mean it's a human nature right to kind of anchor to the original draft capital maybe the original hype coming into the draft

where these guys were the expectations that we had for them and when they outperform those expectations dramatically it's a very human thing to just think it's not real right it's just like that won't last I think the draft capital piece is a good point. So like the, we have five guys in the quote unquote boring running back category. We'll go through all. And we have Chase Brown, Kyron Williams, Chuba Hubbard for the Panthers, James Connor and Arizona and Isaiah Pacheco on the Chiefs. Yeah. None of those guys were a day one

pick. Chase Brown was a fifth rounder. Carin Williams was a fifth rounder. Chubber was a fourth rounder. James Connor was the third rounder. Pacheco was a seventh rounder. I think that is a huge piece of it. In real life. We're not famous in college. We're not famous in the draft and have been overachievers in the NFL. Yes. James Connor every single year. It's probably the best value in fantasy drafts. I think Keenan Allen had this for a long time where people always thought Keenan Allen was boring.

He always delivered. They always thought he was going to get hurt too. Always thought he just, at some point in his career, managed to put together healthy seasons. James Connor. Same with James Connor. Well,

Kenan and N. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think these are all right. Because it's funny, because if you look at guys like Chase Brown,

Kyron, and Pichico, they're not on boring teams. They're the Rams, the Bengals, the Chiefs. It really is almost, it's not just people in your drafts that fall.

I think that we've, I do think that we've kind of backed ass first into a pretty good theory here, pretty good, like, world. Not only boring guys in your team, but that they're the best value. Because there's also something we've cracked, I think, with, like, just fantasy experts in the way rankings get made, and I hate the term market, but like the way the market consensus rankings have, and it's like wisdom of the crowd.

It's like stock market. He hates the term market. I'm sitting in the world trade center with a fucking polo talking about. Supply and demand. It took him one day to put on a blue pole. I saw him in the hotel. I was like, why are you dressed on that? Yeah.

Dress the part. I don't know. I actually honestly I had I don't know I honestly I was like I will look at a finance bro less out of am I do you want me to wear this it's a 15 day trip the you had to pack for three fucking days deacon had to pack for 15 days should I wear right where will I look where will I look weirder here in the world trade center or wearing this in the arch district in Los Angeles where am I going to look more weird why do you need the shirt I brought it and you know what I'm going to use a nap running out of clothes smoke them if you got him

I guess yeah exactly exactly it's so All back then. So, it's so cost of this point, right? So I want to get into specific guys, and I want to start with Chase Brown for the Bengals, who I think is the poster child of this. And I will admit, I've had Chase Brown blindness. I had, he was in my blind spot. Even last year, people were into Chase Brown, and I was kind of like, I'm not to lie.

I think he was quietly one of my bigger whiffs where I'm like, I don't see it. Like, I don't know if they're going to give him all this work. There's a lot of Chase Browns that come up every year that don't land. Like Sean Tucker. There's always like the plucky kind of like fireploid. spark plug, like fifth, fourth, fifth rounder guy who's pretty good in limited capacity. But you're, the guy can't handle a full workload. Yeah, I'm like this guy, and here's the thing.

And this is actually an important thing. The reason a lot of people, it's like smart people dismiss a lot of these running backs to start is the hit rates on fifth, sixth round. Yeah. It's littered with people that just never did anything. The last 10 years, I think two seventh round running backs have contributed. I apologize. I heard that out of show and I don't remember who said it.

The last 10 years? Yeah. It was like Chris Carson and Isaiah Pacheco. So don't. Damn, is that it? Yeah. And so when people are like, oh, I'm going to draft this fantasy running back in the seventh round and your normal redraft league, don't. But once they prove that they're an NFL player, at that point, okay, we've seen it.

That's enough. Like, I've seen enough. So with Chase Brown, I was wrong because I just looked at this guy and I'm like, I don't see a world where this guy becomes a three down back for the Bengals. Chase Brown's a three down back for the Bengals. Like, it's really simple. You can't score points if you're not on the field. Chase Brown's always on the field for what we expect to be the best probably offense, or at least the offense that is obviously elite with Cincinnati. But the defense sucks, and I really do think that they're the best candidate to be exactly like they were last year, which is always a dangerous game.

But the Bengals are going to be throwing the ball all the time to win. And then, but Chase, every single person I've heard around Bengals camp on the team, covering the team, working for the team. Everyone is the same take, which is just Chase Brown's going to have a monster year. Yeah. And the staff trusts him so much. They're saying everything they want to say. He is the new Carmen Williams of elite, like, really good offense where it's like, Chase Brown isn't an elite athlete. but he has the total trust of the coaching staff of Joe Burrow

and of how to run the system and operate it in the best offense in the NFL. And so I think if you told me there's going to be a guy who's as good as Bijan, Jemir Gibbs, Sequel on the season outside the top five picks. I'm like, I think I'd pick Chase Brown. He is a good athlete, by the way. He's good, but I guess he's not a segment.

He ran a 4-4 and jumped 40 inches. He's fucking athletic. So why was he a fifth-round pick? Seriously. I actually don't. I don't really know. I mean, honestly, I think he was a little bit stiff as a runner. And that was actually some of the worries in his first year. And I think he had to learn pass pro a lot.

His first season with the team, he was a little iffy. Like, I don't know if he flashed as much as people expected. And that was like why coming into last year, there were some people who were really high on him and some people that didn't really think it was going to pan out the way that I think a lot of people were projecting. But, I mean, he's just, and the other thing that I think that's interesting about Chase Brown is, along those lines, he really improved as he kept playing. And he got more snaps. And he got a lot better in pass pro. He got a lot better as a runner.

And it's just, you know, these guys, sometimes it's not just this is who they are. He got better as he went. If Chase Brown went to Ohio State and got picked in the early second round, I think he'd be going 12 spots higher. He'd be going at the end of first rounds. I really believe that. Zach Moss, who was the starter last year, heard his neck week eight.

He broke his neck. Broke his neck in week eight. Broke his neck week three played a month and a half with the broken neck. Yeah, and unfortunately they have released Zach Moss. But since Zach Moss got hurt, week nine to 17, just the second half of the season, Chase Brown was the running back five. He was second in touches behind only Sequin over that stretch, 23 touches a game. And that was the big knock.

It was like, can he handle this workload? Even if you go back to college, he went to Illinois's last season of Illinois at 350 touches. Yeah, he was carrying a heavy low for them. And then fantasy points, Scott Barrett, Ryan Heath, great stat. They do expected fantasy points, which is basically just like, based on the touches he got, where he got the touches, how many points should he have scored? He averaged the most expected fantasy points per game of any running back in fantasy points data history over the second half of last year. Wow. That's worth like, just repeat that.

In the history of fantasy points data. In the history of fantasy points data, which I don't know how long necessarily they've been doing that, but a while. Chase Brown averaged the most expected fantasy points per game of any running back over the second half of the year. And honestly, there's not a lot of competition again. It's like a decade. They have Taj Brux, a rookie. They have Samadjeet P. Ryan who's not going to... I think he's insurance probably.

Yeah. Well, on that note, we have Chase... Where do we want Chase Brown as we get to like the end? We have Chase Brown as a top 30 player and I'm actually at the point. I have him a little higher than you guys. I have Chase Brown, I think, as the last player I'm comfortable taking before the elite quarterbacks. Like, that's how much I like him. I think that he's, to me, exactly where that range where you can take him if it's kind of just pick your flavor of if you really want to Josh Allen Lamar Jackson.

Like, go for that. But if you're like, oh, I'll get Justin Fields later or Bo Nix later or like even J.G. McCarthy like 14 rounds later, that's fine. Like, I'm totally, I think Chase Brown and the third round is good, but to the boringness. If Chase Brown falls to the fourth round, I think that's actually one of those, like, you look back at your draft after you won your league. You're like, that's how. Yeah. Like, oh, like I got running back receiver, tight end Chase Brown. And I had two elite running backs of receiver, tight end, first four picks.

Yeah. I think guys like Jonathan Taylor, Bucky Irving and Josh Jacobs, if you want to take Chase Brown over those guys, I have no problem. Totally fine. 100%. Yeah. Which is hard to do. I can't stress that enough. Because it doesn't move you.

And you're like, oh, Lucky Irving. Oh, Jonathan Taylor. And you're going to take Chase Brown, some fifth rounder nobody's ever heard of. You've got to do it. It's very difficult, but you've got to do it. And the point of this, again, is just if Chase Brown falls to you in the fourth round, you should just do it and don't think about it. Like, this is, because the end of the day, it's not that famous.

Go home to your wife. Go home to your wife. The original Chase Brown, Kyron Williams for the Rams is also a guy we have to discuss. Because it's how many years in a row? Three years in a row now? it's been like well Kyron Williams reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated right right that is an all-time quote it's an all-time quote it's an odd-time quote oh my god what a who was that was that you baddie baddie a when he won the heat with the heat oh um

i thought it was yogi bearer or something like that oh could be wrong oh i don't know if it well yogi bear is he's the he's got so many quotes laid out or he is no was it mark twain is it mark twain is it's a mark twain's the ultimate internet like everything's attributed him, but no, he didn't say any of that shit. Is that right? He didn't say that? I don't know, but I think Mark Twain and Abe Lincoln are these guys that people just wrote on the internet. Like, oh, yeah, it's this quote.

You just add Mark Twain to that? Can we do a breakout on Instagram where it's just like, Chase Brown's a really good value at ADP this year, dash Mark Twain. So is your low-stakes conspiracy that Mark Twain didn't say this? I don't think Mark Twain said half the shit that's attributed to the internet. The origin of the quote is from 1897 when Mark Twain, while traveling to Europe, was reported to be gravely ill or your dad. New York journalist

asked Mark Twain I don't know we'll never know We'll never know We can fight out Kiron is funny Every year we're like That is

Remember when I asked DK that question about Do analysts kind of overlook These late round drafted guys As guys who are actually good Because they didn't see it in college And you're like

Yes No he was like No Every year like He's a shit for breakfast Blake Corum Like it's his time Sean McVey's

telling us Who he likes They also just paid Kiron Williams. Like, pretty much any other running back in the NFL. And I do think that maybe Blake Horn plays a little more this year. Because, again, like, it's a red shirt year. I just don't think Sean McVeigh is ever going to trust a rookie with anything. But, yeah, Karen Williams is the starter in this team.

And I think Blake Horm, if Kyron Williams got hurt, would be the new, like, would be the new Karen Williams. putting in Kairn. Like, he's just going to keep playing. This is why I'm dubious, because on one hand with Saquan, this is a different conversation, but it's like, oh, the Eagles going to play Seekwon less. And I'm like, well, they can tell themselves they will. But when they need to win a fucking game, Sequin will be

on the field. Yeah, right. You know, and I think Kairn's the same thing. McVeigh is like, but I trust him. Well, you said, like, Seekwan, over the last two seasons, this is a great stat. Only Seekwan Barclay. He's the only player in the NFL who's average more touches than Kyron William per game. He also scores a ton of touchdowns.

He has 31 touchdowns, which is tied for the league lead over the last two years. I know. Is he a little James Cookish? Is it a little bit like, is he going to score 16 touchdowns every year? The difference is that James Cook for the Bills does not play for the Bill Walsh of our time, which is Sean McVey. Sean McVeigh is like at some point you're betting on the coach. And it's not like Matt Stafford's exactly Cueby sneaking in the...

Hell no. No, yeah, exactly. There was like a point in week 12 when Matt Saffer had like zero rushes. Or he like he was the only quarterback who didn't run the ball ever. There's this great line from House, which I loved Greg. up that show house. Yeah, I never watched House. Well, he's a great. He's like, I don't bet on horses.

I bet on jockeys. And I'm like, at some point you take Karen Williams. I'm like, I'm not betting on Kyron Williams. I'm betting on Sean McVeigh. Yeah. You know, and sometimes you do have to look at the other players and you're betting on. And it's like, okay, who's the coach of this player? It is, it is funny to me, though, that this hat, Craig, to what you were saying about

fantasy analysts and, you know, draft analysts, always trying to replace players that are pretty entrenched. I'm like, I can't wait until Blake Corum gets his chance. Yeah, John Graham gets his chance. Yeah. Charquist Hunter. Charquist Hunter is awesome. And then it's just going to be fucking

Kyron Williams a whole year again. Sean McVeigh is watching Jarquist Hunter's tape and he's like, dude, he's going to be a great specialty. When Kyron got his big contract, how many people were like, damn it? Also, I can't stress enough. I'm going to be wrong on this. I know I'm a broken record on this,

but I don't care. When coaches care about putting a rookie running back or young running back on the field, do you know what Sean McVeigh is thinking about? Because they're like, man, that explosiveness would add such a cool element to the Rams. What Sean McVeigh is thinking is, is this guy going to end Matt Stafford's career? Are we going to have to put him back in the airstream?

Yeah, like, really is Matthew Stafford's, like daily rehab is everything I've done to, hey, save Matthew Stafford's back, going to be fucked up because this rookie 21-year-old kid, intern, basically. That's what rookies are, fourth run running back, you're an intern, missed a block and ended Matt Stafford's career. Like, maybe Matt Stafford won't make the Hall Fame because Jarco's, like, that's what they're thinking about. Anyway, we have the back-to-back. Is Kyran the guy were most trying to replace in the family? fantasy world. Definitely. I think without doubt.

We're just ready for him to be. And James Connor, I do think people really want Tray Benson to see the starter over Trump. I think the difference is when James Connor got a contract extension at 29. We were like, oh, Tray Benson, I guess not going to be a thing. Cameron William's got a contract extension and people still are kind of like,

I don't know if he's going to play. He's like 25 years old. Pay him 12 a year. We have them back to back, which is so fitting. But I do think Chase Brown is a higher ceiling just because I think the Bengals are going to run more plays, score more offense because their defense will be worse. And the Bengals are just, like,

literally the Bengals need to score more points to win each into. individual game. Like, it's that simple. I just think the Bengals are going to score like, just wait. They're just going to need to score more. Okay. Other all boring players, maybe the single most boring player this year, Chuba Hubbard for the Panthers. Certainly. It's funny because he's got a great name. You think it like we'd be more into a guy named Chuba. I can't tell if it's a great. He kind of sounds like a Star Wars character. Star Wars ass name. It's a unique name. It's a unique name. I don't know if it's like a

He's a He's a bartender at the Moss Isley Can't eat. Should we play Star Wars Star Wars character or workplace platform? Yeah, that's pretty funny.

Chuba. But I do like Chuba Hubbard this year. I continue to think the Panthers are kind of underrated to cross board. Here's how you know Chuba Hubbard's boring. Everyone listening. Close your eyes.

Or don't if you're driving. No, do it. Can you tell me what Chuba Hubbard looks like? That's hard. If you didn't have him in your team, no fucking chance you know what Chubbubbard looks like. I think that he is the highest drafted player that like nine out of 10 players in your league

could not tell you what Chuba Hubbard looks like. Yeah. Yeah. If you walk by Chuba Hubbard in the street, like, if it wasn't like, you know, obviously ripped like an infill player, like if you're just wearing, you know, normal business clothes, like what I got on, no fucking chance you'd be like, oh, Chuba Hubbard, like this is Euro. 100%.

I comped, I had that we did name brand off brand for a live show last night and I comped Chuba Hubbard to Chase Brown in terms of just the usage that they did. So Chuba Hubbard is kind of like a poor man to Chase Brown because, and if you look at the point in time when Chase Brown. Chase Brown took over as the starter for the Bengals all the way through the year. So week six on, you know, you look at their stats, Chase Brown and Chuba Hubbard, and they're very close in almost every category other than touchdowns. Basically, Chase Brown scored more touchdowns.

But if you recognize and accept that touchdowns are a very high variance stat in general, like touchdowns are one to two percent of a team's plays each year. Right. And you also take into account the fact that maybe the Panthers offense takes a significant jump this year in terms of their efficiency, their ability to get into the red zone, give him opportunities near the goal line. Yes, they did sign Rico Doudal

in the off-season, but I still think Chua is going to be by far the heavy volume player in this offense. They signed him mid-season last year. They extended him in November. They gave him a four-year, $30 million extension with like $16. Was that before or after? Jonathan Brooks heard of knee. He got hurt. I feel like it was maybe before.

No, it must have been November? I can't remember. Oh, maybe it was before. But I also think they knew Brooks's knee wasn't great. But the point is they really liked you. Yeah, he's good runner. And you know what's so funny. So we did the New York live show last night, which was so much.

We're recording this Wednesday, August 20th, by the way. So if anything's changed between now and then, that's why maybe we haven't addressed it. But we did the New York live show last night. Craig made a great point that the name brand, which we did during the live show, was the Bengals with the name brand. And the Cowboys were the Off brand, which was again, PSA pre-check. TSA pre-checked? TSA pre-check and then the regular security line, which is often faster than pre-check these days. That Cowboys.

This is also great because there was a TSA pre-check. employee at the show. Oh my God, that was crazy. We came from work wearing the TSA free check. And we go to take a photo with him and he's like, dude, you want to take your badge off? Like, that's not, I don't think you want that into the photo. So funny. So, but I still don't know what clear is. What's, I don't know what clear is.

Clear is just, if you pay us a lot of money right now, we will take you to the, it's the Disney Fast Pass. It's, you want to give us cash right now. It's like, it's like paying a bouncer to get in a bar. But what is it? It's greasing palms. What is it? Oh, no, it's like, it's like, I think they, it's your eyes?

No, it's a company that just takes it. They own your face. I actually don't know. I don't know what Clear is. It's weird because they're the most well-staffed place in any business I've ever seen. There's always like eight Clear employees doing nothing. Do they take you to the front of the TSA pre-check line? They have their own lane.

Yeah, they just take you to the front check. They like swerve you into the different lines, right? Yeah, they just take you to the beginning of the TRIZEG. Yeah. It's a biometric identity verification company. But you know, it's funny. Everyone with Clear is always mad at it. Eyes or fingerprints.

No one's happy. But the theory is no one's happy. So the Bengals are clear. And then maybe the Cowboys are Preject. And then the Panthers, honestly, are regular. Because the Panthers are actually the third team in this group where the defense is awful. They give up the most points in the history of the NFL last year. And the offense is like kind of like if the Bengals sucked, where it's like there's Ted McMillan,

or I guess we're calling them Team Hack now. But the Panthers are actually the third in that line. They're the worst version of the Bengals and Cowboys. One of the keys to fantasy is to find the sleeper team. that will take off. And year two of Dave Canales, a guy who resurrected Gino Smith and Baker Mayfield,

and was really the first guy to kind of kickstart Baker Mayfield with the Bucks is now in year two with Bryce Young. Ted McMillan, the offensive line is honestly not bad. It's a good bet.

And no one's really on it. And so you're going to get all these guys for a very affordable price. Bryce is, frankly, I just think getting more coaching now. I think there's more investment in that he's definitely the guy for them. Like, I don't think there's as much

like we're going to have to replace this dude. Like I think that he's just going to have that broke up and then got back together and then got married. But you're like into it now. Yeah, yeah. It worked. They were figuring it out. Other boring guy, you mentioned James Connor for the Cardinals, who is the poster child for this. His name, his play style, the team he's on.

You know what's funny is he should have a great... Because the cancer thing? Well, yeah, Connor, he's the epitome of if he was a more famous player, it'd be like, wow, he got over cancer and like, has been awesome. And something about the fact... And like, I don't know, something about him going to Arizona. I do think the Cardinals are in this weird space or maybe they're not like that well covered honestly it's so crazy that that isn't like

he isn't a beloved player or beloved story like no one even remembers that I feel like about him like it's a crazy he was the University of Pittsburgh guy who had cancer then went to the Steelers and then replaced Levi-on-Bel when he wouldn't play football and it's that was like eight years ago and he's just crushed every year since he's another example of

kind of an older like an aging player who's had some injuries in the past, but I think it's exaggerated how injury prone he is or whatever. You know, people kind of look at him as super injury prone, but he's kind of like Amari Cooper in that I think he's a guy who plays banged up. Yeah, I think D.K.'s Keenan Allen comp was excellent

where Keenan Allen had this injury prone like years and years after he actually never missed any football games. He had like one season where he missed eight games of the hamstring. Because he had like lacerated a spleen or something. He like had an organ injury and he tore his ACL and everyone's like injury prone and then he just played eight straight seasons. James Connor, to me, is the Mike Evans over. running backs.

Just be, every, they're, people are afraid he's going to, this is the year he's going to tell a lot. Incredibly boring name. Yeah.

A little older than you think, you think it's going to be the year they fall off and they never do. James Connor the last three years has been a top 15 running back. The last three years. And of course, in the rankings, and ADP, he's the RB 19.

Nobody is willing, because it's not fun or sexy to even talk about. Oh yeah, James Connor's probably going to be the RB12 this year. That's not good for business. My, I really do think that to get a true breakout player in fantasy, I do think, other than just dumb luck, you do need

overlapping biases. And my thing this year is just get the boys. It's like you need boring, olds or youngs where I'm half kidding. I don't love that phrase. It's true. Youngs. Get the boys. The boys. No, it's not like, boy. Don't do that to me. Boyz. Boys. No, it's like we're getting the boys together. All right, yeah. I like that. I like that. I like that.

I didn't say it. Just don't call them Youngs though. Christ. Get the Youngs. I didn't. The youths. The two youths. The two what? Anyway. Boring old and young. The point is that like basically

No players in their prime. He loves a good like catchphrase. No, but no serious is like The iconic we sell Chinese food. Right. Only real heads know about that. I don't go fuck myself. Anyway, the point is that James Connor,

Mike Evans, what we're saying is people you're capitalizing other people's fear. You're afraid of being left with the back. Derek Henry last year, you got him in the second round and he had 2,000 scrimage yards because people were afraid that would be the year to fall off. People are afraid of getting James Connor.

People are afraid that either older guys are going to drop off or these younger guys haven't done it yet. And they're boring. Who's the hardest boring guy to draft on this list? To actually click? I think it's James Connor. For me, it's Chuba.

Because I still am so like I'm taking a Carolina Panther. But yeah. I think it's Star Wars. I still think it's Kieran's actually probably... I mean, I'm still afraid to draft Kiron. What happens is? I'm not that we all. He's a different guy.

No, he's right. I changed my answer to Kiron. Kiron's the right. To me, and it's like... I'm afraid Kiron's going to get hurt for some reason. Right. To me, it's the same thing I've said about the Rams this whole offseason, which is probably just stupid and I'm missing the point. but it feels like things could fall apart quickly for the Rams.

It's like you said, it's like a parlay. If Puka gets hurt, if Stafford gets hurt, or if Kyran gets hurt, if any one of those guys gets hurt, things could kind of fall apart for them. I don't think losing Kairan necessarily would tank their season, but obviously you don't want them to get hurt if you draft. Is this our best new wrinkles avoid parley's? Like the dolphins and the Rams are just parlays and we're like,

yeah, they're healthy. Like, these are awesome players. But like, yeah, don't do parlase? You need multiple things to happen for this player to succeed. You're doing the Anthony Richardson. You win more money with the parley. though, don't you? That's true. You're onto something.

All right. Last guy in this group is Isaiah Pacheco, who I was kind of like so bored I didn't even want to put in this list. DK, you've actually over the last two weeks really convinced me that Isaiah Pacheco probably one of the best values in all fantasy. Hundreds of them. For Zah Pacheco for the Chiefs. Isaiah Pacheco was like a third round pick last year in fantasy drafts.

Now he's like at ninth. Yeah, I think it's like short attention, like short memory. He broke his leg in week two. This is the dumbest thing ever. So in 2023, he was the RB 15. 13. As a seventh round pick. Right.

He was a third round pick in draft last year. He's seven-round pick in real life. And then the chiefs give him the job. And then we're like, he played so well. We're like, wow, he's the main running back for the chiefs. I mean, he's the main running back. And if you look at the depth chart, I mean, it's going to. Yeah, it's going to be probably him getting the vast majority of the work.

And then maybe mix in a little bit of Cream Hunt, if he makes a team, mixing a little bit of Richard Smith. Cream run was out of the NFL a couple years, like two years ago for being out of it. He only went to the Chiefs because he was familiar with it. Like, they needed help that. badly because again Pacheco broke his cracked his leg in September I don't know it wasn't like

a compound or something but he like had a No big deal. Yeah NBD but like it's what you have to throw out last season also if you're going to add pass catching at any point in your career it's going to be around now like the third season in the league where he was he missed time but he has mental reps like you know the system like this is about the time

where they're like yeah Pacheco is going to know the past get better than Elijah Mitchell who just got there I don't even think you need to make the case that like he'll be better it's just if he's exactly the same he's still a grave out of it Starting running back, this is a player that, I don't know, I guess we don't talk about this stuff. There's a, what's changed the most in fantasy last six or seven years is the best ballification of fantasy rankings where basically there's this best ball formats where, if you don't know about it, basically people, instead of doing mock drafts on Yahoo or ESPN, well, Yahoo, the only fantasy platform of the world was Yahoo. And so, Yahoo! Fantasy shout out.

But instead of mock drafts, people do these things when you do the draft and then they auto play your highest scoring lineup each week. It's like the optimal lineup. So you don't play with your friends. friends and you're trying to beat like 100,000 people to win $5 million, but you don't have to set your line up. So you kind of just draft it in May and you forget about it. And the formats of those, you start like a bunch of receivers. So receivers get shit shot up. And basically there's really, really, really smart people have spent a lot of time in this. And the answer has been they found out a lot about fantasy football. And one of the things is, in short, Isaiah Pacheco

seven years ago would have been going ranked in fantasy like 35th over. all. Isaiah Pacheco would have been a third or fourth round pick. And long story short, because of best ball, Isaiah Pacheco is now like a sixth round pick. And I think the pendulum might be, he's still like, this is wrong.

Like he's just where he's, like the consensus on him doesn't make any sense considering what Kansas City's offenses. He was, what they could be too. What they could be. Where they're trying to be a more explosive Chiefs offense. And again, look at where Rish Rice was ranked. Look at where Rish Rice and Worthy Alona ranked and what that's, and where

Mahomes is going, what that says and what we think the Chief's offense will be. Pacheco is, like, the only running back on this D. I don't know. How much do you think it is, sorry to interrupt, how much do you think of this whole thing is because of the way he runs? He runs like he bites people. Should we send up the crescendo playlist to people?

Yeah. Sure, yeah. And it's because he's a seventh rounder. But again, I can't stress enough. Even if the Chiefs are exactly the same as they were last year or the year before that, the last healthy season Pacheco had 2023 is the RB12. He's going 60th in drafts right now. Yeah.

Like this is just a very boring no-brainer He has a high floor too, I think. Well, that's what I was going to talk about. I think boring players generally are very high floor, but maybe low ceiling. And I think that's the only knock on a lot of these guys. Kyrin, though, does have a high ceiling. But guys like James Connor, Isaiah Pacheco, I do think it's like, I don't think it's possibly these guys can be like a top seven running back in the league.

I think it's very likely they could be a top 15. So I do think the best ballification has kind of pushed these guys down lower because in best ball you're looking for ceiling. You're looking for spike weeks. And these guys don't really provide that. But in season-long fantasy, when you just, like, need a player who's going to contribute every single week as your second running back, James Connor and Isaiah Pacheco are perfect. We're going to go to receivers and take a quick break.

But first, I found the list we, I typed into Google Drive and I just found bite people in quotes. And I found the list we made from a year and a half ago of the list of things we said Isaiah Pacheco runs like. Jordan Lewis and the Cowboys just posted like Isaiah Pacheco run like he bite people, which is just the best thing ever. and all the replies, and the best replies were, Isaiah Pacheco runs like Scooby-Doo. I'm trying to picture that. Like the feet don't move.

The feet move, but he doesn't move. My favorite was Isaiah Pacheco runs like a kid in a shoe store trying out new shoes. Yes, I like that. It's like when this is actually seen this, Calvin will try out new shoes and he's like, I'm so fast. And he like, he'll like do the thing where your feet start moving and then you start going.

He runs like he's doing the drill or you have to shuffle through the like foam pads. like the curbs, you know? He's like running like that at all times. Oh my God. Oh, he's the best. Love the energy. Yeah. Pacheco, I think Pacheco is on my short.

I'm in on Pacheco this year. Yeah, I'm really excited. The mini takeaway. So boring. He's so boring. My mini takeaway from this group is part of me does wonder if the way to win your league this year is if you start receiver receiver, which is really early easy this year. Like if you get like Citi Lamb and you come back around and get Drake London or there's

so many receiver combinations. The fact that you can come around and still get, there's a world where you can get Chase Brown in the fourth round. and Isaiah Pachick in the sixth round and then have two top ten running backs anyway. But your receivers are like top five. Like that to me is the potential skeleton key is in this episode.

So we're going to get to receivers. But first, quick break. Football's almost here, which means it's time to start thinking about how the season will end. That's why Fandle created a whole new holiday futures day happening on Tuesday,

August 26th. It is 24 hours of deals on your season long picks a day when you decide who will win the division, take on the MVP or take the whole thing. For one day only, all customers get an instant bonus on any football futures bets plus flash deals every three hours that you won't want to miss. So mark your calendars because the greatest day in futures history is coming, August 26th.

What are you doing for Futures Day? Visit the Fandall app to learn more and get your picks ready. Fandle, play your game. Wide receiver. I want to start with an important question. D.K. and I had this conversation and then Craig, you were on vacation or something. I don't remember, but we couldn't decide. And we were trying to figure out if round.

one had a boring player or not and we're like I don't know if any boring players in the first round of your fantasy I mean obviously the first player's going in the first round of offense they're not really they're pretty cool like they're usually not boring and we were wondering DK said if there's a boring player going around one it would be like Nico Collins for the Texans

and I was like he's cool I think he's cool I was like I thought if there's a boring player and again you're grading on a curve because it's the first round you compare these guys to like Jemir Gibbs or like in Jemar Chase the coolest people football Sequin and I'm like if there's a boring player it's Brian Thomas for the Jaguars because he plays for the He's his name's Brian Thomas, and he wasn't the most, he's the third most exciting player from his LSU team as a rookie in the first round of that draft.

He's literally, like, neighbors and Jane Daniels are cooler than him. And he plays for the Jaguars in the AFC South. And I just like, he, to me, is the boring player in the round one. No chance. No, he's not boring. He's not boring. No, he's not boring. No, he's like, yeah, that's boring.

Yeah, that's boring. I think he's one of the sexiest. I mean, he just, like, showed up, was immediately the best rookie wide receiver. It was, like, fucking awesome. LSU took off. He led the country and touchdown. Okay. But it's relative. Let me, okay.

I'm going to read these names. I think it's hard to explode onto the scene as a rookie and then be boring. If he's, okay, first round, who's more boring then? I got one. Jamar. Oh, okay. I think Amanra.

St. Brown? Yes. More boring than Brian Thomas. 100%. I think Amonra has kind of settled into Kenan Allen territory where you know exactly what he is. He's a slot wide receiver, right?

He doesn't have that like, yeah, power slot. Yeah, power slot. Stealing, brazenly stealing this from Nate, or friend Nate Tice. He's Marcus Colston on the Saints. Yeah, and it's like, I think everyone's a little bit,

down on the lines this year a little bit with Ben Johnson leaving and it's like Amonra St. Brown is like a lunch pale guy like he'll get your 1,300 yards, he'll get you 10 touchdowns and he'll go home. Everybody else is like, what is Brian Thomas's ceiling? What could they be? Could Nico Collins lead the league in receiving yards? C. B. Lamb could lead the league in targets. Jamar Chase, of course.

No one's talking about Amonr-Rose-Bron. A Monter-St. Brown is like, oh yeah, he'll be solid for you. I think in terms of if we're, if we're, because in like you said, in the first round, all these guys are exciting. But the guy with the least juice in the first round, like Craig's term, juiceless, it's got to be almond-rusting. Juiceless? Yeah.

If you had to select somebody who was juiceless. I also feel like we don't really have. There was a reality show in Netflix that followed him. But you're, but it's, by six years. It also followed Kurt Cousins. Wow. That's the most defeated I felt in an argument in months. Case closed.

Marcus Mariotto was in that. Oh, my God. All right, yeah. Dude, he looked retired like during the fucking show. They must have been so pissed. did they do Kirk twice? Because he, well, I think it's more like they were like, he said yes. Nobody else?

Probably not. That's great. Mahomes made their own thing because Mahomes had his own thing. They did the Chiefs Kingdom because the Chiefs wanted to do their last dance because Mahomes was obsessed with last dance. And then the Cowboys are doing their own thing. Yeah. And then.

There's a lot of other quarterbacks and teams. Yeah, but it goes faster than you think. Six rookie quarterbacks, none of them can do it because then you get the Baker Mayfield too many commercials for you good. That's a quarter of the league almost. Gino Smith, Kyler Murray, just like, don't do Kirk Cousins again. First year head coach, Sealks, you can't. like Mike McDonald last year was a first year coach.

You take out first year quarterbacks, first year coaches. That's like a third of the league. Wasn't Kirk Cousins first year coach with Rahim Morris? That's good point. Well, he's all, fine. I'm just saying there was other, I just found that to be weird. I feel like people were interested in the Kirk Cousin stuff, though. He's like kind of a weirdo.

He's a good counterbalance because he's a good counter to like, he's just a nerd. Why didn't they do Trevor Lawrence? I don't know. Like, there's other options out there. Trevor Lawrence is similarly boring to Kirkcote. Like, if you told me another guy goes to sports clips, is that Kirk Cousins' his favorite. Trevor Lawrence

I mean, he has no... If somebody was like, do you want to watch Kirk Cousins again or Trevor Lawrence? I also figured out my Trevor Lawrence take,

by the way. This is not the point of what we're talking about. Okay. That's fine. I am going to put... We don't always do that. $500 on the Jaguars

to win the Super Bowl when Trevor Lawrence cuts his fucking hair. He will never be good until the hair goes. Did Brock Bowers actually shave his head or was that AI? That was Photoshop.

Really? Yeah, man. A lot of people believe that, including myself. I'm not going to lie. That was bad because the AI slop at websites

who I won't name, but it's tough because some websites have agreements to post their content on others. So you're on like a reputable site that's sourcing out to a different site that writes it with AI that it's actually there used to be post on Twitter about articles and now articles are written about tweets. So someone just tweets a Photoshop

of Brock Bowers and then AI finds it says Brock Bowers is bald and then it guns on a different website. And it's like now he used to be a fucking detective to figure out if Brock Bowers cut his hair or not. I'm like this whole, we got to fix it. I'm just going to get out of the internet soon. Yeah, it's honestly horrific. Soon. I'm going to get off the internet soon. Back in the day, there used to be a morning and evening paper.

And I'm like, you know what, twice a day for news sounds great. I don't think I need a buzz. I don't think I need a push notification. I know. I'm like, am I back in on just like the 6 o'clock news now? It sounds like a great idea. Yeah, maybe, oh, twice since, right? Tell me what happened tomorrow morning.

Anyway, sorry. I think Amonra is boring, relatively. Right. Okay. I think we also don't have to pick a first round player that's boring. Hyvid, do you here have Drake London, which I think is an interesting conversation for a second rounder that's boring. Do you think Drake London, you know, the joke used to be What's your favorite Drake London play and you couldn't think of one?

I do think now he has a bit of an identity. He's gotten more. He got the game-winning catch on Monday football and we two versus the Eagles when Sequin dropped the ball. He has this like big body basketball kind of style to him like go up and get it over people. The difference to me is really simple. And a cool name. The reason I gave, yeah, the cool name.

If he was Brian Thomas, Falcons, Trisysseys. Like the black jerseys, Drake Lundy just looks cool. The Falcons are the coolest losers in the world. Everything about the Falcons is sick except the actual history of their outcome. but I guess it's just a receiver it's just a list of guys who have like done it and been elite for a whole season.

Jamar Chase, CD Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Nico Collins, Monorrae, St. Brown, Pooka, Malik Nibu, Maliq neighbors, Brian Thomas, then you get to Drake London. Or even AJ Brown's in that group. And then you get to Drake London, and you're like, little imagination. You're like, well, he was the number one receiver

for the three weeks Michael Pennix is there. And it's like he's been good for a whole year, but he's also crazy young. He's got the Jason Tatum syndrome where he's been in the league for like a long time. But I mean, how old is Drake London? Like 19? No, he's like 24.

but he's, I mean, I think he's probably last year of his working contract. Like, he's like, I mean... Yeah, he's heading into year four. Tyler Shucks, 26. You know what I mean? Drake London's 24. That's weird.

So the, you know, you look, I mean, Drake London is, yeah, he just turned 24 like a month ago. So he's 24.1. I don't bill likes the decimal stats. So that combined with everything, but mostly I think DK is Washington and what Michael Pennix did in college where he just slings it all over the yard.

Kingmaker. He's like the Stafford, kingmaker and that he just rips it. Between James and Stafford somewhere. We don't know yet how close he is to either side. So we're in that massive spectrum. But I think the thing, too, that's nice about Pennix is he doesn't take sacks. He's really decisive with the football.

So he's going to keep things moving and play in the system. So I think I don't have the stats in front of me, but I'm guessing he hits his first or second read a lot. He's just really decisive in terms of getting the ball out. And a lot of the first reads are going to go to Drake. London. So I think London is just going to have a very high target rate. Maybe not 29%, which is what it was when Pennix was starting last year. I think it was 40%. It was 40% targets when Pennix played, which is obviously out of control. It's a small sample size. This is 29% like the whole year. Oh, yeah. It's 40% the last year's. That is, that's, that's, that's,

it's funny because Drake London, it does feel like if you ask somebody based on, you know, when you look at ADP how high Drake London is. If you asked how well did Drake London do last year? Like, where did he rank? What would you guess? I think he was like 10th? He was the 22nd wide receiver in fantasy last year. So it's like, there is a bit of a projection going on here just based off

that. Is that points per game or total? Points per game. What was he total? He was ninth. Okay. But yeah, he's 22nd. But I think he's the best bet, maybe outside of Tyree Kill of guys in the second round that could legitimately lead the NFL. Be the wide receiver one. Be the wide receiver one. I had him as boring and maybe

boring is the wrong word, but within the second, he's just the first guy that involves some imagination. But I also think he's a guy that because he involves some imagination, people are going to take, I just think, you know, looking at rankings, I think first of the second round rounds when people are like, I don't really know who Drake London is. I'm going to take Josh Allen in your regular league. And I also think that that's kind of the range where people are like, oh, I could take Drake London. That's kind of weird. I'll take AJ Brown, who I'm aware of. You know what I mean? I do think that Q score at some point comes in here. And so Drake London to me is a good example of a player you can get in the third round.

And then you have like Chase Brown in your fourth round. You're like, holy cap, I'm going to win my league. I think that's a great call. I'm a big fan of Panics. I'm a believer. I think he's really good. Those games versus Oregon and Texas still stick in my mind. Your take that if they had lost the Texas game, he would have been drafted.

Like we would have more hype. Like that would have in his last game. If we hadn't seen him get rocked by Michigan, he would have had way more hype coming. 100%. Yeah. I think also Zach Robinson, the OC, who came from the Rams, did a lot more with Drake London last year. They moved him around. He was running more stuff out of the last year.

the slot. They got creative and I think year two now in that system with gun-slinging pennies with a shaky defense. They have the fourth easiest schedule. It is kind of like Oh, that's another big part. The perfect storm. I think also Drake London last year led all wide receivers with 60% of the team's end zone targets. 60%. I think you could have like 18 touchdowns next year, legitimately. I love that.

London is a guy that if we're wrong, whatever, but to your point, I just Honestly, the other thing we're not mentioning, it wouldn't be crazy. It's always dumb fantasy analysis. It would have they get hurt. But I'm like, well, Michael Pennix had four season and ending in your trees in college. So it's worth bringing up. But I'm a huge fan of the Atlanta offense. I think they're going to take a huge leap.

I would pick them to maybe win the NFC South as like my sleeper pick if it even counts as that. I just think this offense is going to be very, very fun and explore. Also feels like it's going to be concentrated, which is really important for fantasy. It's just going to be Bijan, Drake London, sprinkle in some Mooney if he's healthy. My new favorite thing, the week one test. You're missing a name. Yeah.

About KP. Oh, sorry. CalPitts. I love that. I was like, wait, am I really? That was like Westworld. Like, I don't see any. What door?

K. KP. We don't call them that. I know. We can't say cowpitz. I think overall, though, the Falcons passed the week one test. How much of the Falcons offense looking really, like in this league where we keep bitching about how no one throws it downfield anymore?

And then Michael Pennix comes out, how many quarters of Michael Panix ripping downfield to Drake London. I need one drive. One drive. One drive and you're like, oh my God, I should have taken him. Like, you know. Drake London is one of my favorites this year. Another guy.

This is, sorry, this just reminds me so much. Wasn't there a, I don't remember if it was a preseason game. I think it was a preseason game. If you'll remember this. Darren Waller, in his first year with the Giants, caught like six passes on one drive. And everyone was like, if you extrapolate this to a season, he's going to score.

3,000 yards. I just thought of that. So, yeah, yeah. But if they have a good drive, so I'll be excited. I'm going to buy into it. Yeah, they finished dead last. Did he finish? 20 second?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he had a good week, though. Yeah. While we're talking about London, I want to ask you one more guy. There's other boring wide receivers we could get through. That's what I was trying to say. Calvin Ridley, who I've talked about a lot this year, but I think he definitely qualifies as one of the most boring players you can pick this year. All-time boring guy.

All-time boring guy. People are going so much off of what he did last year and maybe not forgetting, but just not realizing the gap, potential gap in what we could see from, going from Will Levis. I remember watching Cam Ward at Miami on Saturdays and then watching Daniel Jones on the Giants on Sundays and thinking Cam Ward would literally be better for the Giants today than Daniel Jones

and that is also true about Will Levis. So the fact that Cam Ward's a rookie, again, Craig, you guys both keep correctly saying Cam Ward's the most under-discust number one pick of all time. I genuinely think Cam Ward being a rookie and the Titans being also a boring team is disguising the fact that this is a probably maybe the biggest quarterback upgrade any team made all year.

He's going from Will Levis to Cam Ward. Yeah, I just think Calvin Ridley's being priced as though Will Levis is still the quarterback. DeAndre Hopkins left to go to Kansas City last year midseason. After that, Calvin Ridley was on a 1,300-yard pace with Will Levis. Right. And it's like, okay, even if Cam Ward is okay, he's still going to be better than Will Levis. He's looked good in camp. He's been peppering Calvin Ridley in camp, more importantly.

In preseason, they already seem to have great chemistry. So I'm like, he's basically, you can draft him now as though Will Levis is still his quarterback. essentially. That's how low he's going. So our offensive line might be sneaking. The offensive line might be a lot better. And the upside of like, what if Kim Ward is awesome? If Kim Ward steps in and has a CJ Stroud like rookie season, Calvin Ridley is going to be the best pick in drafts. This is like the, I mean, not to compare him to Jaden Daniels because they're different stylistically, but I think we underestimated how good, how quickly Jaden Daniels is

going to be in the NFL and how much that would impact the guys around him. I think there's a real strong chance we're underestimating Cam Ward. I totally agree, especially because the line should be good. but also it's also hard to, it almost, we almost don't talk about it enough because it's so obvious how bad Will Levis was. But Will Levis was the worst and his accuracy rate,

like since the worst, he was, Nathan Peterman was probably the worst, but considering Will Levis had expectations, it's like since Carson Wenton plowed and had, did what I did 10 seconds ago with the stroke, like just the brain breaks.

Will Levin, like my favorite, I think the funniest thing that happened last season was Brian Callahan, the coach of the Titans looking at Will Levis and Malas. What the fuck are you doing? There was a whole part of the season

where every week there was, a new art but make it sports picture of Will Levis. Oh my God. Just faces, face plants, surrender cobras, faces and asses. The art but make it sports ratio for Will Levis, no one will ever match that. Which is important to

remember in fantasy. So Ridley is a good example. Ridley's the perfect person for this exercise. He's going to fall. Ridley's going to, yeah, watching a pick six like he's the scream and Edward Lunch or whatever. Like, just like, there's a chance people don't eat, like the average person doesn't know what team Calvin Ridley's on. Like, Calvin Ridley's

got suspended. He's still in the leak? Then he came back and then he was on the Jags and now he's on the Titans and you're going to see Calvin Ridley's name. You're going to be like

he's like 30 years old. He's on the Titans. You're going to see Tennessee Calvin Ridley 30 years old and be like, I'm good. And he's going to be one of the best picks in drafts.

I'm going to see if I can pull up an example of this. Hold on. Calvin Ridley hasn't been famous or relevant in a long time. He's mostly known for being suspended for gambling before it was cool.

He didn't even make any money off it. I feel like that, yeah, the overarching memory I have of Calvin Ridley as a player was like his rookie year when I think he had like 10 touchdowns. He was like getting started opposite Julio Jones and it was like, oh, okay.

This is what we're talking about. Yahoo mock drafts. So Yahoo's rankings, so the rankings that when you open a Yahoo draft, the ranking Yahoo suggests has Calvin Ridley's 61st. But his average draft position in Yahoo is 77th, which is what we're talking about.

Calvin Ridley going 17 picks later than Yahoo's rankings telling you to take them is because this is what we're trying to say is you get these. boring guys around later because they're falling through the cracks of your friends of what they've been paying attention to over the summer and then you have to TikTok and you're like,

I didn't do any research of fucking Calvin Ridley and you're like, Titans, no, I'm gonna take someone else. And like Aaron Jones, like, and these guys, this is what we're talking about, the values on these guys are real. Yeah, because there's guys like George Pickens and James and Jalen Waddle going around

Calvin Ridley. Exactly. There's no way you're selecting him. No. Right. But you should. Another, Dekanida, boring receivers. Very similar on the same lines To Kobe Myers

This is one of the best ones I mean And I did an auction draft a few days ago He might be the most boring He went for like $3 And he checks every box of He was an undrafted free agent Who didn't score a touchdown for like two full years

For his two full seasons He took him 38 games To catch a touchdown Think about that Which is might never He is like a player as a starter It's like somehow We've come to look at him as a

Like that's derogatory He didn't catch a touch But he was an undrafted free agent I think it was the same year they drafted the dude out of Arizona State. Who? Oh, the first rounder didn't work out. Now I can't even remember his name. Oh my God.

The Arizona State guy who fantasy people love. What is this name? I'm totally. Patriots? Yeah, the first rounder. Also, the listeners right now, for the new ones, we always joke that the closest should ever come to being a ghost is listening to a podcast. Don't tell me.

It was Arizona. Wasn't it Arizona? I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to Google. I want to get it right. I want to get it right. I want to get it right. He was the jump ball guy. He was Arizona State.

I'm almost positive. He was definitely Arizona State. Okay, I found it. Do you want me to tell you? Oh, I got it. Nikiel Harry? Yes. Dude, people were screaming just there.

People were so mad. There you go. You guys are ghosts. Was it the same year they drafted Nikiel Harry that when Jacobi Myers came in? I feel like that. Probably. It was Arizona State, by the way. I completely like remember or forgot his whole court.

Oh, no, actually. Wow, 2019. But it was his rookie year. He had Brady. He had Brady's rookie year. Then he had Cam Newton, Mack Jones twice, Aiden O'Connell, Gardner Minchew. And now he gets Gino Smith, and he's the number one wide receiver on the team outside of Rock Bowers. I think this is a great call.

100%. You're going to want to run, but everything's priced in. The Raiders wanting to run. Like, this is a guy, yeah, he's forgettable. He's going to fall in the draft. Like, this is another guy. This is the point of the exercise. I just think we got to give him some credit because he came in as an undrafted free agent,

the same year they drafted Nikiel Harry and just straight up outplayed him. Yahoo drafts, Jacobi Myers, was ranked 74th on average. he goes like onrith he was he 15th in targets last year 12th and catches and now he has a very good quarterback well really a pretty good quarterback if you're not a geno believer he's at least league average comparing that to aden o'connell gardner minchu the guys that they had playing last year i mean his efficiency is going to spike i could see him score way more touchdowns he had four touchdowns last year which is obviously kind of that's still holding down his adp or whatever but i don't know he's going to be the number one receiver on that team i think him and brock bowers

is going to be the number one overall pass catcher on the team but I still think it's going to be concentrated with Myers, Ash and Gentie, Bowers, and it's going to be much more efficient. I'm a little nervous Chip Kelly is going to fuck with Brock Bowers. It's a little in the back of my mind. Well, there's like the reports about Brock not playing a lot. Right. It's not buying it. People were saying, yeah,

people were saying, well, this is what Chip Kelly did the past and basically Brock Bowers, you know, they want to block you tied into the field at the same time. Yeah, but he's their best player. Yeah. Actually, this didn't come out with the well, the college football I forget Associated Press I forget they did the all

Century they did the all century team They did like the best Like you know the all pro team Did the all pro team for college football Like the all Americans for the last 100 years Best played in the history of every position Cloyce No but there were guys like that on the team

Milt Milt Plum He was on the Giants Just see you know What college did Milt Plum go to? Oh my God The College of the Redwoods Probably went to fucking Navy

And killed some Nazis Natsies. Killed some Nazis. Penn State. He killed some Nazis. He lived in 90. They're built death back then. He fought World War II and then played

15 years in the NFL and then lived 90 years old. It's unbelievable. Oh, wow. He led the NFL. I'm going to be healthy my whole life and die at 75, probably. He sold the raw milk and fucking ceremony grade matcha.

Last receiver I want to ask you guys about... He probably smoked cigarettes for 70 years. Probably. God. What the fuck? I don't know. Probably got a house for like a thousand dollars. That stuff is the most fascinating.

Like when the people who just like eat red meat and smoke cigarettes for 60 years and they're just like 87 years old. No, it's like you hear the, yeah, you see the interviews with the octa, like the hundred year. What is it? Centenarians. Yeah. They're like, kiss your wife every day and three bourbons. What's, yeah, exactly. What's your secret?

I remember some woman. Whiskey for breakfast. Yeah, it was like some lady was 105 years old. She's like, I have a Coca-Cola and bacon every morning. Fuck. What the fuck. you have all these influencers trying to tell us

like everything that I am right now ringer fantasy football jibilla cobbis have the funny examples of old 100 year olds or whatever old people telling you what to do what to do every day you're right do you think in 100 years it's going to be like how'd you live to how'd you live to 200 years old then it's going to be some ticotker saying like oh I put

tallow on my face every morning for like 200 years I taped my mouth shut every night as I slept mouth tape and tallow every night oh my god the last receiver one asked you guys about so boring didn't make this list is Jackson Smith and Jigba for your Seahawks. Great one. Where he is just this forgotten man in this tier.

Literally so boring, we didn't even put him on this list, but I'm looking. I'm like, we have Jackson, Smith and Jigba ranked. I'm in on him. He's in like the end of, if you're in a 12th team league, end of the third round beginning of the thing. He's around these proven commodities like Mike Evans and T. Higgins. He's around like Garrett Wilson, who's probably more famous than Jackson Smith and Jigba. They won for Ohio State. And then like Ken Walker and James Cook, the running backs, Breece Hall.

And then Jigba's just there. And I do think he's boring in that. I mean, where is he rank in the pantheon of like Ohio State receivers? Like he's not, like, you know, he's mid-tier and basically had won an incredible college game. He's just not explosive. He was the first water receiver taken in a bad wide receiver class. Yes. Bad rookie year under Shane, are we live, Waldron.

And then, but I will say if we're buying into the Seahawks offense, and that's really the question, D.K. I feel like a week ago when we started putting together these lists, you were like, I don't know of this offense. And now they've seen it, if the Seahawks offense is good and they actually just have a Kubiak system. I'm like, man, Injigba is also, and Jigba is almost like the off-brand Drake London of, well, if everything works, this will be great.

I'm like, we almost don't want to entertain the fact that what if Darnold's good? Like, if Darnold's good on the Seahawks and they can block, well, shit, and Jigba's probably going to destroy this offense. Yeah. It's really hard because, like you mentioned, I'm starting to get my hopes up that the Seahawks offense is actually going to be pretty good, pretty efficient. You think Charlie Brown being like, yeah, well, Donald's going to figure it out.

I know, 100%. But the run scheme, really does seem to be clicking, at least in the preseason. Obviously, that doesn't mean much because once we get into the regular season, you know, it's totally different. The defenses are just so much better in the regular season than in preseason, and they're playing harder schemes and more complicated stuff. But all that said, I'm really excited about Gray's able in terms of what he brings to the

offensive line and just upgrading the guys around him and the scheme just fitting better. They're doing a lot of like undercenter play action stuff. Like the play action, you know, I've seen stats. I don't have them in front of me, but like expected points, expected fantasy points on play action passes is much higher because generally speaking, you're further downfield, more explosive plays. It's the corner three. Mays wrote an article about this for, I mean, so long ago, it might have been Grantland,

that like play action pass is like a quarter three in the NBA. Right. It's just, and so, you know, I can see him be more explosive than people are expecting because of the play action passing game. Sam Darnold stylistically, he likes to push the ball downfield. He has a little bit of a yolo style, and that's probably, been bad for him in the past, but in the right structure. As we saw last year, I mean, how many touchdowns is he throw 35?

Obviously, this is a totally different offense, but I think there is a chance that we're, a strong chance we're very much underrating Sam Darnold based on, I guess, the prior history to last year. It's on everything we've ever seen except the first three months of last year. And the way he finished the season last year, which was, I think a lot attributed to how bad the offensive line was. He was like the 28 to 3 of a season. He had the pennics.

It was like, he was, it was like the Oregon, Texas. amazing and then he got killed and then it was like, I actually never mind. What would we say about the... He would have made way more money. Something I wanted to do is... If they lost in a shootout by one and he had four touchdowns and 300 yards, I think we'd be talking about him completely

I wanted to do an episode. Maybe I shouldn't be saying this in the show. We can cut this if we decide later. I wanted to do an episode with you guys where we... It's too stupid to do an entire episode, but I have wanted to do an entire episode where we pretend we didn't watch last season. And we just looked at the 22nd for rank rankings, but we just came off the

2020 year. I kind of like that, yeah. And like, And you think about, oh, the CS quarterbacks. Who? Sam Darnold? You're going to take a jigba? Where? You know what I mean? Like, I kind of wanted to...

Pacheco's in the 70th. That's weird. It's hard with in jigba. I feel like you can make the case for either side really easily. It's like Sam Darnold. They were like top five in passing last year, past rate last year. Now they're going to run the ball a ton. You're like, I don't know.

The offensive line's shaky. Like, first year with a new OC, new quarterback. Like, that sounds like a disaster. And then you're like in the same way that we overthrew. thought Derek Henry going to the Ravens. Like, obviously that's going to work. Sequin Barclay going to the Eagles, obviously that's going to work. Part of him is just like, Jackson

Smith and Jigba had 1100 yards and 96 catches last year with D.K. Metcalfe and Tyler Lockett playing full seasons and now they're just both gone. This is obvious. And they're moving him around the formation a lot. He's going to be playing with Cooper Cup. Like this is obvious. He's going to have twice the volume. So it's like, it's same with Jacoby Myers.

I'm like, now he just has Gino Smith and not Cam Newton and Gardner Minshu. Obviously, this is a great upgrade. Here's the thing, though. And this is why I bring up a jigma. Isn't he the hardest click of all these guys because of who's around him? I feel like I need more people gone off the board. Like I need...

I don't know because like Garrett Wilson and Terry McLaurin. Oh, I'm way right. Like he's in a different tier to me because I think a jigma, like Terry's upside, I think is what we saw last year. Garrett Wilson, I mean, I don't, I just don't want to be the fucking idiot who bets on Garrett Wilson having his best season

and Justin Fields. If it happens, I'm happy for them. I'm actually happy for Jets fans. Happy for Fields. I would like Fields to resuscitate his career. I don't want to bet on it though. I think Injigba is such a better bet and I think they should not be next to each other

I think Ajibba's like he's way closer to T. Higgins in ceiling than like Garrett like I just I just you can't convince me that Garrett Wilson's I agree with you but looking at Fantasy Pro's ADP they're going next to each other because Enjigba's not famous and again this is the point of what we're saying

it's actually the opposite of like don't reach for these people we're saying let these people fall to you like you might be like oh maybe I'll take Injigma and T. Higgins here. And then you take T. Higgins. And then around later, you're like, holy shit, and Chigba's still here. That's what this episode for,

I don't know if you guys agree, but that to me is the purpose of this is these guys might just fall to you with your next pick more than any other episode we've ever done. We don't, like, let them fall. We don't have him written down here, but I do think it just popped into my head.

Another really boring wide receiver is Cortland Sutton. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Super boring. Like, the clear red zone target on an ascending offense with a second year quarterback

who, like, developed a connection with him. Corlin Sutton's good. Didn't they just resign him too? Yeah. And it's like Coralyn Sutton's probably just going to have like 11, 12 I'm not sure. He's an adams of people we've actually met where I'm like, Corlin Sutton's like a, for a receiver, like a really nice guy. A lot of receivers are kind of like, you know,

rightfully so like really, you know, they're like rock. Devas. And yeah, they're like rock stars or whatever. Yeah, and Crohn's like a really nice and very smart like he's a very high IQ player. Second half of the season, right, which is reasonable, a rookie quarterback hitting his stride. Yeah. Second half of the season, he was the ride receiver 12.

Yeah. He had a 25% target rate. He was a Mark Andrews. He was like a cut candidate in the first month, half of the season. I know. It felt like they were trying to get rid of him. Yeah. Yeah. But rookie quarterback.

He's another one. No one's going to be excited to click his name, but. I've struggled to click his name. Craig, last year. It's also a Sean Payton thing where you're like, can you, at the end of the day, can you predict a show? Is he, I mean, you know, it's, yeah. I think Coraline's a great example.

Yeah, he's very boring. It's hard to pick him when there's guys around that are like more exciting. Yeah. He's also, if you look at the names around Cortland Sutton, he's also perfect for this exercise Because like Xavier Worthy Jameson Williams, George Pickens Like even Jalen Waddles had moments

D.K. Metcalf is famous as fuck. Joe Burrow. Devante Smith, who if any of your people in your league Like college football, Devon Smith's like the highest worst fever I've ever seen in college football Rishy Rice is around there. Aaron Jones, who at least has been around a long time. DJ Morve, people are into the bears

Like a lot of cool players And then it's Cortland Sutton. Probably up to run some ball. It's like, you know, don't know what to expect. It's just, yeah, but like, that's really not that old. Clearly, like the age curve has moved. We actually, this is probably the best thing we've ever gotten right in the history of our show

was a couple seasons ago identifying that all the data that we use to look at when to expect players to decline is just outdated because it's before they could put a fucking air stream in the Rams parking lot and like get Matthew Stafford and whatever we have. Like, Levy on Bell in 2016 did not have what, his hamstrings being weighed

for measurements the way Alvin Camara does in 2024. And like, I think 29 is the new 28. I mean, that's the stupidest thing I've ever said right there. No, but everything pushed like a year or two. Everything went back two years. And like at some point you have to look. You're like Novak Djokovic is still competing in the, like Novak Joffich could win the U.S. Open.

Mike Evans is out here at 30. Devonty Adams is getting 25 million a year at 33 years old. Like, yeah. Anyway. Let's get to tight end. But first. This episode is brought to by Hyundai get into the Hyundai getaway sales event and get away with a deal. So right.

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warranty and Hyundai complementary maintenance. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for details. Offers end. September 2nd, 2025. I want to go to tight-in for hot second. So many boring tight ends. It's actually harder.

It's the most boring. So it's almost funny. It's like just the needle in a needle stack. But who's your most boring of the boring? I think the guy who's getting underrated right now a lot is Jake Ferguson for the Cowboys. I think we're forgetting. And Craig, we've been saying this a lot. That's so boring.

We kind of forget how electric the past game for the, for the Cowboys can be under Dak Prescott when he's healthy and when their line is functioning. So I don't know. I just think, you know, Dak has always always shown a propensity to pass to tight ends. He's very comfortable throwing over the middle of. field. Ferguson fell off pretty badly last year in terms of what I think a lot of people expected, because he was a top 10 tight end in 2023.

He hurt his knee or an ankle early last year. He was injured. Dak was injured. His snap rate fell. I think they were trying to bring him along back slowly. But this could be the year that he really bounces back. I think it's his third year in the league. And he's a big target with a huge catch radius.

I think he's pretty good run after the catch. So he can add a little bit. He's not just going to fall down immediately when he catches the ball. But I just think he's going to have a lot of targets in this offense. And he's going to get a lot of opportunities. Probably not going to win you your league in terms of he's not going to be a top three tie. Yeah, he's a real like he'll deliver every week. Right.

If you miss the first run on the elite tight ends, at least you're going to get, you know, a solid floor with Jake Ferguson, eight to ten points. You know how Brad Pitt says he has like face blindness? Yeah. I have like, that's kind of Jake Ferguson blindness. Like you'll never see him in your line. No, I can't.

He is the most boring, like, relevant tight end in the NFL. Yeah. That's a great. I'm jealous of a Ferguson. Yeah, he's a boring. That's a boring motherfucker. There's now two Ferguson tight ends in the league right now. Terrence Ferguson for the Rams.

I think he's good. We'll be, but not this year. Don't draft Terrence Ferguson. Right. But I do think a long term. That's funny. The tight end I was going to say was boring. So I actually was thinking about this guy.

I'm not going to tell you he is. But I was thinking about, you know, the players have their little head shots. Like the official NFL shot. And I was thinking if you looked at every. NFL headshot of every player in the NFL. And you're like, one of these guys is a fantasy football podcaster. I'm like, it would be Tucker Craft.

Right? Like, it would be Tucker Craft. Like, I'm like, that guy's the fantasy football podcaster. I think he's the least remarkable looking person in the entire league. Damn. Wow. The hell? Not least, not like ugly. I'm saying he's normal. He's like the most average looking guy. All right. Like, he just is like a, like an NPC

creative. Like, it's just a... Look at this guy. The eye mask. The eye mask. It's kind of weird. It looks kind of weird. I'm just saying he's ugly. I'm saying he's the most normal. He just looks like he covers the NFL. He's huge. He's super tatted up.

He's a large person. I think he's cool. Look at him. I have an important question. Is Tucker Kraft a good or bad name? I think it's a good. Craft is a good. I think Kraft is cool.

Tucker Kraft. I'd recruit him. I don't think it's, I don't know. I don't think it's like. Slight pot. Lean positive. Yeah. Lean positive.

So, but here's my thing with Tucker Kraft in a nutshell, which is. He's very athletic, D.K. Oh, yeah, sorry. Is he an athletic tight-down? He's like a mini George Kittle. He is a huge yards after the catch guy. Yeah, he does run after the catch. He was second behind only Kittle and yards after the catch last year.

To the point, I think if you ask like tape nerds and you're like, who are the top six tight ends in the NFL? Like overall, like the blocking and receiving. Tucker Kraft's like legit good. He's going to be on the field a lot. And there was hesitancy because he was the second titan in the pack was drafted in that year. Yes, that's the whole thing. He was the third rounder. Musgrave got hurt.

Tucker Kraft came in and kind of took his job. Luke Musgrave, the heptathlete. it was like alpine skiing, whatever. Guess what? He's not that good. Luke Busgrave is a receiving tight end, right? Am I wrong? No, I think you're right.

Tucker Kraft is an all-around player. Like, he's a receiver, he's a blocker. He is in the kiddle mold. I say he's a kiddle, but like he can block and catch. Here's the thing. Packers overall, I think, are another blind spot for fantasy analyst and, like, who make the rankings and kind of create the consensus because they have been very hard to predict.

I'm looking at a Packers team where Christian Watson to remind people towards A. A.C.L. I don't know if he's going to play in the regular season, Christian Watson. Jaden Reed has a foot sprain. So you're looking at the Packers receivers being, Dantevin Wix has a calf issue. And then, like, one of the receivers, Bo Miltons, playing cornerback.

And so you have Romeo Dubs is X. Matthew Golden's going to be like the Z as a rookie. Everyone else has some kind of injury and is like ready for week one. But over the course of the season, what if the guy who's just like the number one receipt? I am captain of the Matthew Golden's a great fantasy pick this year, but he is a rookie.

And I'm like, what if Tucker Kraft is actually, actually the sneaky tight end who actually just the number one receiver in his team by the end of the year. Had it in a year three. None of the people who are like really studying X as a football would be surprised by that because he's a really good player. And Romeo Dubs is like, you know, Matt Harmon is his great term sacrificial X of like he's a number one receiver in the design of the plays but not in reality. Tucker Craft to me, if you look at all these boring tight ends, like Jake Ferguson, the disagreement I would have there is there is zero chance that as long as Ced Lambs's healthy, Jake Ferguson's ever the number one option for Dallas outside of pure matchups. I do think there's a chance that if everyone remains in the current situation

of Matthew Golden and Romeo Dubs and Tucker Duffeufs and Tucker Kraft being the main healthy options where Tucker Kraft just ends up leading the team in categories it's not likely but it's not crazy for someone that's going outside the top 10 rounds and it's going to fall. I like Tucker Crafts quite a bit. Yeah, this is a good bet to make I think

because he's not going high in drafts and he's probably a dollar in auction drafts. So cheap. So the bet you're making is if something significant changes with this team, it's a good offense, going to score a lot of touchdowns, going to pass for a lot of yards.

And there's no clear job. What if one more Packers receiver gets hurt? It's just like, what if one guy emerges from the team, that is the bet you're making? And I could absolutely see it being Tucker Kraft. They really like him. He's like Craig or hyvitz,

maybe you were saying, he runs after the catch a ton. He's trucking people in the open field. He was, what was it? He was second in yards per route run last year, only behind Kittle. I mean, that shows that this guy can really make stuff happen. I think the fear that I've got with just all the Packers is you're playing whackamol week in week out in terms of like who's going to get the most playing.

You're doing that a tight end anyway. That's part of it to me too. Maybe don't play whackamol at receiver. Maybe the answer to the Green Bay Receiver thing is, and again, I'm saying talking about both sons on my mouth, but I'm like, if I'm wrong about the Matthew Golden thing, maybe the answer is don't play Packers'Reard's tight end because you're doing whackamole anyway. Do you get a touchdown or not? It's a small miss if you don't hit. Yeah. Big hit, that's it.

If you missing Tucker Kraft is small, but the hit could be big. He's going outside the top 100. Yeah. And again, I'm not saying reach for Tucker Kraft. I'm saying if you're thinking about Tucker Craft, and this is how I feel about all these guys. If you're thinking about him, they fall back to you. Tucker Kraft sounds like an NPC mad and fake name.

Yeah. College football 26. Did he have the quietest 700 yards last year? Like, he had 700 yards, I feel like I'd remember none of them. The only people who know him are the people who added him in fantasy. Like, they know he's good. but like that's one person in your league. So I'm telling you, he's a secret.

This happens a lot, too. There's a, like, a weird phenomenon in the pros where the second drafted tight end is, like, better than the first one. It happens a lot. What's that mean? It's only happened four times, but, like, I don't only have four nickels,

but that's, like, a weird, like it's weird that it happened that many times. I mean, it's like Mark Andrews and, who's the other guy they drafted him for Lamar Jackson? Yeah, Hayden Hurst. The all-time. You see it, you see it relatively often. and it's just an interesting phenomenon

but like Tucker Kraft I think it's clearly better than Luke Musgrave. Yeah, sorry, I just got caught up on thinking how Lamar won three MVPs or whatever and whatever he's gonna end up winning in his career. He's like Yokic where it's like, what pick was he? How many players they took ahead of that guy? The own team.

Okay. Any of the tight edge? You guys wanted to do quarterbacks here? Quarterback, I think it's hard to do boring because it's like the nature of the position. It's the most important position of sports. A little different to find like a boring player. So I'm open to the definition.

being squishy here. I thought the only person that truly kind of met the definition was Bo Nix. I don't think Bo Nix is boring. Well, but here's the thing. How many times can we have the conversation where if Caleb Williams did this year

what Bo Nix did last year, we were going to freak out. But Bo Nix did it and no one really gives a shit. I think people do, though. I think everyone's in on Bo Nix and loves the Broncos and they're like the sleeper pick. Yeah, I guess that's hard to gauge. Yeah, I'm not like against,

I'm just like, can I read the quarterback list? If you run, it's hard to be boring. That's fair. Josh Allen Lamar Jackson, Hurts, Jaden Daniels, Joe Burrow, Mahomes at least boring six players in the NFL. Kyler, maybe you could argue

Kyler became boring, but he's ranked seventh, I don't know, Justin Fields, these many things, I don't think he's boring. No. Bo Nix, Baker's not boring.

Brock Purdy? I think Brock Purdy is boring. I think Brock Purdy is suffering from, we talked about this early on the show, the anchoring to his original draft cap also, and like with Kyron,

anchoring to, he just physically isn't very exciting. Kairn Williams kind of small, kind of slow. You know, I think with Brock Purdy does not look like a great NFL athlete. Like he just, he's small and pretty skinny, not super muscular or whatever. Like he just doesn't look like he'd be a really good quarterback in the NFL. And yet he is top 10 in the last two seasons in fantasy points per game. 51 passing touchdowns over the past two seasons eighth among all quarterbacks.

Patrick Mahomes has 53. Every time Brock Pretty plays, he's like a top-term quarterback. And he's also pretty good runner. I don't know if he's going to run as much as he did last year. But as a scrambler, he's very good. He, you know, he sneaks out of pressures. He gets away from guys. He's really hard to track down.

He gets a lot of first downs. He's a pretty good one. I think Dak Prescott's pretty boring. I know he keeps kind of banging the drum on the Cowboys, but I do think Dak is kind of overlooked now. You love Dag. We were arguing yesterday about what you still think Dak should have won the MVP years ago.

I do. I think it's weird that Lamar wanted that. year and didn't win it last year. That makes no sense. Lamar should have won it last year, not in 2020. I'm still am a believer, Josh. Dak led the league in yards and touchdowns. They were tied for the best record in the NFC. I don't know. I think Dak is. I think that's a good one. Yeah, obviously Lamar. That's not what the MVP is. It's like who had the best regular season. But it's not a stats award. It's just like, I mean, I mean, I'm not arguing Dak was bad. I just, I think that you're right when you're like,

well, the argument I think I see what you're saying is how could Lamar not have won last season if he was a better season than when he won the year before. But that season hadn't happened yet. No, I understand. So I'm like, in that year, when you watch the games, you're like, well, Lamar's, like, the Cowboys would have rather had Lamar Jackson. Okay, yes. But that 2023 Lamar MVP season was not even one of his best two seasons that, up to that

point. 2019 and 2021 or whatever was, he had way better seasons than the MVP season in 20203. 2019 was better. 2021 was, I think, I think, you can look statistically, but I think that was his third best season at that point. I'm not, I am not going to sit here and argue. And I think it was easily Dak's best and the Cowboys were cooking and the offense was fantastic

and it was good. And again, they had the best record in the NFC. I was like that's fair. I think you've served it. It's a good take. But yeah, I know we keep bang it. But it's like not that long ago that happened. The point is that like we could sit here and have the conversation

but I think Jack is boring. Here's my thing and I still don't feel like I have a great answer to this. Jared Goff is kind of Jared Goff is very bad. I'll never drop Jerry Goff. And he's in the Netflix show, which now maybe they only get boring people in the Netflix shows. Yeah. I can't deal with how much they run the ball into the end zone.

Yeah. Even though he ended up throwing for like fucking 37 touchdowns, they all came after you were already out of the playoffs. I can't even describe to you how many times Craig texted us during the year. He was like, oh great, the lions. The lions are in the red zone. Watch them score rushing touchdown. I was so upset. I'm like maybe the fact that Ben Johnson's gone will maybe make them throw more because they're just like less creative running the ball.

but fuck. It was like clockwork. It's like the 18 yard line and it's like third and nine. I'm like surely

he will throw the ball it's like some weird handoff to Jemir Gibbs of course it's an 18 year touchdown. Piss me off. So funny. Love it.

Okay. Absolute lightning round now. Okay. Just gonna name a few other boring players and just just tell me if they're all boring

just tell me if you actually think they're a good value or not a question. Like they're like boring but just not a question. Would you actually take them

or would you also pass these guys. Jalen Warren for the Steelers. Yes or no? They fell around you were thinking about him. They fell out you again. Are you actually going to take them? Or you're like realistically like yeah, fuck this guy. It doesn't move me. No. Darnel Mooney for the Falcons. I like Mooney. Yeah, if he's healthy. Yeah. Boring but I actually think good.

Adam Thieling for the Panthers. No. No. I kind of like, he's one of those players that's like for the first half of the season. I bet it'll be really good. You give him these six weeks and they'll get it. Juan Jennings for the Niners. Yeah. again, if he's healthy. I think this calf thing is a red herring.

Yeah. Part of me just thinks he just wants a contract and he's like fully healthy. Oh, shit. I'm a little worried he's going to just get market corrected immediately by Ricky Pearsall, though. I think Pierceall, though. I just think it's Shand. Take both. It can all be good. It's Shannon. Take both. They can live in harmony. I don't know. Last year, John Jennings was awesome with Kittle, with Debo.

Another sneaky defense could be bad team. Like the defense, like they might have to also throw. Hunter Henry, Patriots. You know, I guess, If you're truly punting on Todd-N, I think he's a great last pick. He's a floor play. Yeah. I mean, every year he's just going to be like, here's eight points for you. That's the all boring.

It's kind of like, you can just get that on the way or wear. Right. All right. So that's the all boring team. And again, I really do think, with the exception of Drake London or Chase Brown, I do think for all these guys, it's like, don't, you don't have to reach early for them. The whole point to me is I think these guys might fall to you like a little later than you get. And then overall, you're going to get awesome stuff.

Why did you just look at this computer left? Because T. Because T. No, I wasn't. Is you fucking work? I didn't do anything. I'm going to start, when I see him on Twitter, I'm going to start.

Tell it on me. I'm going to start just talking about random shit and just see how long it takes him to notice. He's like disassociating while I'm going. Fine. Then I'll do some fucking emails. Before we get out of here real quick, I wasn't reading anything.

I'll let you guys do dealer's choice here because we have so many episodes we're recording over the next two weeks. We're going to Los Angeles after this. Yeah, we're catching a flight right. Do you want to hear about the big? law biter here in New York City or do you want to hear about the person I said ex-to-my Amtrak to New York when I hear the Amtrak story yeah okay we'll do the

big law bite at this yeah he's teased it a little so I came up from DC I took Amtrak saw my parents for a day and then came to New York City so you guys the woman next to me where I'm the quiet car of Amtrak and you're not supposed to talk obviously if you haven't been it's like you know this is for people's sleep or whatever small kids so this woman sits next to me and she like loses her phone She's really nervous. And it's like connected to like medical. Her phone's also medical.

She really wants to find the phone. So I help her. It's not an emergency. She just lost the phone. It was like right under the sea. It was fine. But I take two minutes. I help her find it.

She's very appreciative. Then we sit. We start talking. And she's, she's like, what do you for work? And I was like, oh yeah, I work for Spotify. And she was like, I was like,

what do you do? I will give you 1,000 guesses what this woman did. She was like 80 years old. She had a whole career in this field. And we talked about it for an hour. I will give you as many guesses as you want about what she did.

Okay. I'm trying to think of why he would be so shocked. Jackie was like, private detective. Bordello owner. Bordello? I don't know what that is. Like a whorehouse. Oh.

Matre de. No, that matre d. Is that the right word? Madame. She was an Egyptologist. Oh, right. Hell yes. So she told me about Egypt.

We talked about Egypt. I mentioned Rogers like immediate. We talked. about she studied ancient Egypt for like 50 years. She's been an Egyptologist? I was like, I was, I,

it was she go into the pyramids and everything. She was the world. She was the world's leading. No, she just did paperwork. She's been studying Egypt for 50 years. Never been there. Oh my God.

Hey, everybody to Egypt? No. Got a lot of books though. It was like high fits in New York. You ever gone to the Empire State Building? No. No. So we talked about each.

She was the one of the first, maybe the first expert ever on Egyptian jewelry, which was interesting and she basically was like and I like when people have like a one sentence pitch in their field and she's like jewelry is

the world's oldest decorative art and it's one of the only things along with music it's one of the only things that basically spans every culture we've ever seen is basically every culture of people on earth no matter how remote and every time period

have pieces of jewelry that people wear with the idea that has some kind of protective property or spirit like it will either make you healthier or protect you from something. And it's to the point where there's something about jewelry, it's like one of the,

it's something in our DNA almost. And it was really interesting to hear her talk about it and like, what it meant to the Egyptians, but anyway, I was just also like, how do you even find this shit out? Like it's 4,000 years ago. Like, I don't know. This, but also it was funny because the flip side is, we're in the quiet car and we were not supposed to be talking

and she had no idea we were in the quiet car. So like we're having this like, relatively speaking, very loud conversation. If it starts loud. No, I was, you know how loud it must, have been if I was kind of like this is really interesting but we shouldn't She was older? She's like 80. I don't think she gave a fuck

So but you know about me and I kind of don't care I cared so imagine how I think everyone on this quiet car heard about the entire conversation. They were so interesting. Everyone was looking at us and everyone's hearing everything we were saying What did you say about Rogers? What did she say? She had a very mature answer I actually because I asked her it's like do you know the Rogers

The deal with questioning? I was like no I really was like how do you feel when you hear some when you spend your whole life devoted to this and also obviously need this to say woman breaking into that kind of industry in the 70s is you know anytime that i'm always interested she must have been i mean she just probably an incredible woman you can always glean a lot of wisdom from women older women who broke into fields when they were like probably the only woman who worked at the building or studied anything in the classes like they always have a lot of wisdom and she so i asked her how do you feel when you devoted your whole life to this that you hear like erin rogers going in front of millions of people being like yeah aliens aliens who could explain this Meanwhile, it's like we're in the 70th four of the World Trade Center, like building shit's impossible or something. And like the, and I was like, how does that make you feel? And she said, you know, I'm trying to get it right because I'm not a quote, but I want to hear her answer is very good.

She basically was like, I tend not to have those conversations because typically they're so deeply intertwined with people's identity that it's frankly not worth getting into. Yeah, yeah. And I thought that was like, that just felt like the correct answer. Yeah, it's not really about the pyramids. It's not about the pyramids. And I was like, that is such a mature. Also, nothing you can say is going to like change.

Yeah, like, what are you going to convince there? Look at his box? Read this. Yeah. Yeah, I thought it. But anyway, so anyway. Does she have any, like, really cool stories of uncovering some tomb or something like that? I just learned a lot about the pyramid.

And I mentioned a book. We talked about Akhenatenaten. And she was like, oh, yeah, I wrote a book in Afghanistan. I was like fuck did I read your book in college and this Akkadat which I don't I think was different but I do want to plug her book I can't find it right now Put in the episode notes if you care about Egyptologist that's really cool super cool yeah yeah do you mind can we do that No, put her book in sure shout out I told her told her like yeah Of course um but yeah I just it was the most random thing ever but I also was so funny because the entire time i was interested but i'm white knuckling because everyone's staring at us

She had no idea She had no idea but also if you find everyone sends this clip to her you were lovely you should have great yeah we did a great time yeah egypt baby email us at Ringar Fantasy Football at Gmail Yeah That's cool We have so many episodes coming up How do they get the big rock on top of the other rocks At Stonehenge

Levies Police how are they doing that Isn't that another big mystery of how the hell They got those giant stones on top of one another Like in ancient times they have no idea How fuck do you do that? Well it's funny because it's funny It's like how do we explain it?

Aliens I'm like Rogers Turn your sights on Stonehenge Get to the bottom of us For real though Do you know how they built Stonehenge? Email us. Don't we know someone who isn't Stonehenge expert?

Neil de Gras. No, I told you the story about Neil de Grasin's actual expertise, his PhD or whatever was on Stonehenge. So he did Manhattan Henge. We were talking about it. He's the one that... Because I always thought Stonehenge's purpose was a mystery, and it's like super known.

It's a calendar. It's like the sun comes at a certain points. It's like a sundial, basically. But for the year. The large stones average 25 tons. How'd they do that? I don't know. I can't really conceptualize what a ton is.

Tons 2,000 pounds. I know, but it's like, I just can't. Once you get to the, I don't know how heavy that is. It's very heavy. They did a study. Crank's like an heavy. 50,000 pounds. Yeah, I know, but it's just a lot.

So I have Stonehenge pulled up. Do you think you and your boys, how long would it take? You guys are just out there. Me and the boys. In your entire life, could you get that rock up there? No, what the fuck you're talking about? Your whole life? Of course you could.

You have no access to modern technology, right? Of course you could. You have 40 years. you're going to get some ropes and you get figure it out no absolutely not what are you talking about you don't think you don't think if we made some ropes turns out they're not strong enough

what now you Pites of Caribbean with the proper leverage like you don't think in 40 years you could figure that shit no I do not that's your only thing you guys have to do if I was today doing that

yeah and I could use no machinery no no obviously not you get you can't use a crane I'm out loud during the supply. What are you talking about? No, I couldn't get that up there. What are you fucking talking about?

You can lift it. I'm saying if you and a team of like 15 people had like 30 years to build Stonehenge. Let's do a, let's do a poll. There's going to be a lot of really overconfident people. I think it's one of them, like, you get 20 years to figure it out and then you get the whole thing done in like six months. I would try for a year and be like, we're not going to be able to do this. Am I crazy? It's too heavy.

Yes. You're crazy. Wow. You have 20 years to figure out how to move it on its side. And then like once you figure, you just need a system. Getting it up on top of that thing? They figured it out. Gemini has weighed in. Stonehenge was built in several phases over approximately 1,500 years.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm not going to figure it out in 20 years. Well, they had to walk to get the stone. We would do it. Oh, I thought the materials are coming down. No, no, actually, materials are there. They're scattered around the area. You have to build Stonehenge.

I don't think you took them 50. You don't have to go to like wherever and sail with the stones back here. If he's got to create a quarry, that's tough. Yeah, that's tough. No, no, no. The stones are in your area. You know there's a bridge, maybe this is... So I still don't feel like I could do it.

I think in our modern brains, we think it should take a couple years, how do you do that? This probably took, I mean, if it said Stonehenge took 1,500 years. I mean, there are like decades of generations of people who like family, all they did was work on Stonehands or shit like that. It took the, when I went to Florence, just the roof of the Duomo, Bruno Leski, it took him 14 years to make it. That's great. And it's just like... It's like half your adult life. Yeah.

You would commission somebody to like, you know, make something. And it was like, oh, this will take you the next 15 years. You'll probably die before this. Your entire family, no, generations of families would make stuff. Generations of, I've learned this in Paris. Like, generations of masonry. Like, your whole business would just be contracted to building one building. Your father, his father, your son all built it over 100 years.

And then it's built this immaculate work the last 1,000 years. And now we're sitting here and the fucking skyscrap being, bullshit. I always, like, I was learning when we were in Florida. you know, learning about Michelangelo and the Medici family and all this stuff. And after Michelangelo made the David, one of the Medici's commissioned him to make 40 statues. That's a lot. He started.

That's crazy. Michelangelo was like, great. Got started. I think he did like two and a half and the guy died. And I'm like, of course he did. He was like 40 or whatever. And it's like that was taking Michelangelo fucking 30 years. Of course you're going to be dead before that's done.

There were so many things where it was like, I want you to build a campaign. castle for my wife. He died and she died before. You know, it's like, I don't know, I always find it very funny, the timeline. Them knowing how long these things take to make, but maybe they knew that like this will live on forever. It was like a legacy. This is what I'm, yeah,

but he was like, I want a private garden for my wife and I want but I don't want her to have to walk through the village to get there. So you need to make a private tunnel. It took like 10 years to build a private tunnel. Like, well, she's never going to see it. But then she was like, I actually do want to walk outside.

This is how I feel about when they talk about making light rail stuff in Seattle. I'm like, I'm never going to be able to enjoy this. But I want future generations to do that. It's like going to take 30 fucking years until the tracks get to my house. Yeah, I just love that the Medici guy was like, I want to build a tunnel for my wife. Right, that's probably enough of the show. Dek has been on Twitter for five minutes. No, I haven't.

I just looked at it for a minute. Right. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig. Thank you to the Medici's for the two and a half statues we got. Thank you to Caravaggio. Thank you to Ronick for making this episode. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, Austin.

Thank you. Everyone who came to the New York Live show is awesome. We had a good time. Thank you again to everybody at the Gramercy Theater. Thank you to everybody. Thank you to Elizabeth. Thank you to everybody who helped us with that. That was so much fun. Thank you to Amy Poehler for letting me sit in her chair.

I didn't really like that's kind of sick. Who am I forget? Thank you, everyone. Email us for your fantasy football at jimmy.com. I get our rankings or Fancy Football. com for our rankings. Follow us on Instagram if you want the behind the scenes shenanigans of her 15-day trip together. We are going to decide the punishment for our ringer fantasy football league.

this week in LA with Bill Simmons. We're going to have Bill Simmons and we're going to decide what the punishment should be for the ringer fantasy football league, which we're bringing back on Monday. We're going to have, you know, it's going to be the three of us. We're going to have Bill. We're going to have Mallory, Sean, Sal House, everybody, Van Latham. We're going to have all these people in the league. And we're going to, it's going to be live on YouTube. So check that out on YouTube.

And it's going to be really fun. Oh, wait. I kind of want to read the email. An email. Oh, email is more punishment ideas. This is your last chance to get punishment ideas before we see Bill. I told. So we decided, the three of us decided because we are kind of like,

the three-headed commissioner of this league. We thought it made more sense to do this draft, this live draft without technology. We're doing it. It's going to be a better. It's going to be a better experience. Nobody wants to watch people on their computers. I also just think it's funny. You can print out whatever you want, but it is pencil and paper. That's it. Old school. Did you get people who

graded this? I didn't know, realize. Craig is ruling with an iron. I am. This is a dictatorship. I'm happy about that. I think watching a live draft in all computers is a little worse. So I emailed the group and the league and I said, hey, all technology is prohibited. No laptops. phones, iPads, nothing will be drafting like Bill did in the 90s.

And Mallory said, no technology is sociopathic and obscene. I'd rather be in a league with Jelly the Bear. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. If you're this interested in time travel, read a fucking sci-fi book. Holy shit. I forgot how competitive malice. Now we were in a, now actually like, when I was young enough at the company that I was kind of afraid that I could be fired for like.

a small transgression. I made a trade in our fantasy baseball league with someone who I will not name who was not really being... I was kind of fucking around. And I convinced someone not paying attention to give me like their best players and I sent Mike Trout. And I frankly felt that I had plausible in liability on a veto

because I gave away the best player in baseball. But I got like a bunch of people back. And then Mal called me 30 seconds later she was like, what? And she got, she rallied around. She got to trade vetoed in like five minutes. She got the vote. She literally whipped the votes like house of cards and like 15 minutes she had six people

that's hilarious I'm excited for this to get heated Van Van responded and said everything happens by design I am the night hawk you've been warned dude van I didn't realize that it was kind of nuts fans emails and this have been on hinge no what we

fans emails are like I actually like I'm concerned we should release like a dummy fake episode recommending all the players we like for all of them to listen to before you have you been giving your actual picks this entire time I've been lying through my fucking teeth. Thank you, Lord! Lord!

Thank you, the Bengals. Oh, they have one big song. I think it's Walk Like an Egyptian. That's what I was... That was the connection I was making. I'm very impressed how much you know the bands who sing One Hey, Wonders. I'm very impressed by that. The Bengals, wait, did they have...

Yeah, they had Walk like an Egyptian. Eternal Flame. What's that? That's a song. Oh, Bengals. Manic Monday? We've heard that one. Just another Manic Monday.

That's actually a classic. Sunday. Okay, so they're not a one-hit wonder. No, they were big during that era. So can we do this or not? Are we going to get sued for this? Fine. It's fine.

Somebody at the show last night came up and was like, porn in the woods. It's a real thing. We get like one of those alive show. One guy is like porn in the woods, man. And then like fist bump. It was like one at a bar and we were talking about the porn in the woods thing. And one of D.K's friends was like, what? D.K. was like, I mean, I wasn't jerking off in the woods.

No, that's not part of the whole thing. What? I think maybe people did. You just find the magazines and then cruise them. I kind of assumed. You're like discovering porn for the first time. You're not just like, you don't just open a magazine and start jerking off immediately. No, no, no, no. I'm going to cut you off at the bass here. You don't get to tell me that I'm weird for thinking that when you were looking at porn you were masturbating. I will not accept that I'm the weird one for, I didn't say you were weird. I just said you're wrong.

Okay. That's fair. Is it weirder to look at porn? and not masturbate? Yeah, just for the plot. Yeah. I like Playboy for the interviews. The plot is incredible. I can't wait to find out what happens here.

The funny thing about Playboy is that they had fantastic interviews. Right. Bill talks about that all the time. They had like some of the best journalists. Yeah, yeah. I was telling Craig we were, I can't remember what we were doing. I think it was in New Orleans. We came across a hustler bar or something.

I can't remember what it was. And I was like, do you know about Larry Flint? I feel like I'm teaching. New Orleans. heard of Larry Flint. Larry Flint's story is like really... Did he start? He was the founder of Hustler? Yeah. And he got shot He was like very

A huge proponent Of free speech. Seedy bar, yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah. It's an interesting. The people versus Larry Flint is a really, I think that's the name of the movie. A very good movie. Woody Harrelson, I believe.

Played Larry Flint? Let me check. Yeah, I think so. Nice. Woody Harrelson just wanted to play Larry Flint. You know that he was like, I'll do it for free. Yeah, it was Woody Harrelson. it's a very interesting like life that he led

so you like the plot Ed Norton Courtney Love yeah and Larry Flint yeah he's in it he's in it judge Morrissey hmm

anyway that was not that passed you by that you guys are too young do you own any playboy or Hustler magazines currently in your home no no they're in the woods

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