The Ringer NFL Show - The Most Fun QB Draft Episode You’ll Listen To

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

LIVE SHOW in Detroit on April 24: Click below for tickets! The guys flip a coin and pit DK and Ben against one another to take stances for and against the top QB prospects from this year’s NFL draft class (2:25). Caleb Williams, USC (4:07) Drake Maye, North Carolina (13:52) Jayden Daniels, LSU (26:02) J.J. McCarthy, Michigan (36:25) Michael Penix Jr., Washington (51:10) Bo Nix, Oregon (1:00:43) Spencer Rattler, South Carolina (1:07:54) Tickets: http://bit.ly/ringerdraft24 Check out our 2024 Ringer NFL Draft Guide here! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Craig Horlbeck, and Ben Solak Social: Kiera Givens and Jack Sanders Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. This is David Chewaker. The pro wrestling world is currently on fire. And so we've got you covered five days a week on the Ringer Wrestling show. Every Monday and Thursday, hang out with me and Kaz on The Masked Man Show. And this is Peter Rosenberg, the host of Cheap Heat. Join me and my guys, Stack Guy Greg and Dipperstein, on Tuesdays and Fridays. We talk wrestling, we have bagel breakdowns, mage interviews, and so much more. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal and Brian on Wednesday. Worldwide, where we hit the most interesting headlines and even react to some of mass mans, cheap heats, or even your hottest takes. Don't tap out. Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling Show feed. Now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

And stay mage, everyone. Worldwide. For your NFL draft show, my name is Danny Hyfitton. I am joined by Danny Kelly Benzlock and Craig Horlebeck. And this is the most fun quarterback episode you're going to listen to on the 2024 NFL draft. Craig, what is the most you've ever lost on a cross? coin toss.

I don't know. I'm not a gambling man. I wouldn't know. You know what's funny about that scene? We're talking about no country for old men. And it's what we base this whole episode off is the Anton Shigur scene with Javier Bardem asking the poor man who runs the gas station, what he's ever lost on the coin toss. I love that guy, that old guy, because he goes, uh, I need to know what I stand to win.

And Anton Shigur goes everything. Like, what a bar? What's just an absolute bar? No one has any idea what he means. Not helping old man whatsoever. No. That man is not in the rest of the movie, Ben. Ben hasn't seen the movie.

Like, we really, by everything, I'm assuming he just means like your life. But I just love that I need to know what I stand to win. And he says everything. That guy's so terrifying. You guys stand to win everything today on this episode. Oh, cool. Cool. Yeah, I was going to say, this is the most fun episode.

I'm like, yeah, old country for old, or no country for old men. Barrel a laughs. What a fun, what a fun concept that movie is. Hey, best picture winner. How dare you? I just came away just so happy and like I loved it. I was elevating after I came. You know, it's like such a happy. This episode is very fun for Hyfitts and I. Not as much for Ben and D.K., because they don't know which side they are going to be arguing today until we flip a coin live on the show. Exactly. So, you know, so many shows, you know, we got to create debate, right? You know, controversy like, like that's clicks. And so it's like Stephen A. Smith, Skip Bayliss. They're out of here deciding what side of the argument they're going to be on in some production meeting before the show. No.

this episode, we're going to literally go through the quarterbacks and DeKand Seleck don't know who they're arguing for or against till we flip a coin during the conversation. So we're going to go through the top six quarterbacks seven, we'll see. And going to go through the top quarterbacks in this year's draft. And we're going to have DeK. and Seleuk argue for against them and do the weird. And one of them will get everything and continue to live. And one of them will get their brains blown out with a cattle air gun or whatever the hell that thing is in the movie. Coolest weapon in movie history. Yeah.

carries around to like a just a tank of gas. He dies by, you die by air. Like, that's incredible. That's all so important. Gosh, I was going to watch it, but now that I know the ending, I just, I'm no longer interested. That's like the beginning.

That's the beginning? He's doing it the whole movie. Yeah, that's crazy. All right. I'll just dive in here. Also, I mean, NFLJraft.3.com. Dekiscatting reports. We got mock drafts.

We got everything there. So if you want a deeper dive in any of these players, we got it all. And before we start, Hyfitz, we should also say, that our next episode this week will be a mailbag. So please tweet us, email us,

ringer fantasy football at gmail.com, or tweet any of us your questions about the draft, about the NFL season, about bathroom habits, really anything, and we will answer it. Ringer Fantasy Football at gmail.com. Yeah, really. This is your chance for the mailbag. Okay.

So let's just go through it again. We're going to go through the quarterbacks. Only one place to start here. It's Caleb Williams, quarterback at a USC junior, 6 foot 1, 214 pounds. I got the decimal.

It was 22.4 years old. We got the decimals there at NFLDraft.3.com. There we go. Wow. Caleb Williams transferred from Oklahoma to USC and now Lincoln Riley,

the head coach might have the third quarterback who wins a Heisman trophy and also goes number one in the draft after Kyler Marion Baker Mayfield. So Caleb Williams can be the third guy to do that. DK, the badges you give Caleb Williams

at NFLDraft.3.com. Instinctual playmaking, arm strength, trick shot artist, infinite upside. we're going to flip it. I have a coin. We actually forgot a coin in this episode

the last two years we did this. But I remembered it this time. We're improving. Craig, we have two coins. I also brought a coin. So we're on our game today. Do we flip a coin to figure out which coin?

You can start. We'll turn it out last. First of all, hold on. Well, flip the coin and then I have a question. Well, ask the question before we flip the coin. When we flip a coin, what does it mean?

Like, how are we picking whether we argue for or against? What we did last year was, we just picked D.K. at random. And so the coin flip, if it lands on heads, that means you are pro, this player, and if it's tails, you are against. Do we want D.K. or Sillic to be able to pick

the winner? Do you want, like, to give them the choice? That's too complicated. Yeah, I don't like that. Okay, all right. It seems super simple. Too many steps. Two steps. Everything should be one step. Heads, D.K. is pro-Kal Williams, T-K is against. Oh, boy. Okay. What did you say? What did you say? You forgot?

Head's... Pro is heads. Okay. what is the most you ever lost in a coin does? It is heads. Yeah. Great start. Great start for bed. O for one.

Into this. Into this. Okay. All right, D.K., why should we draft? Why should we like Caleb Williams? Incredible armed talent. Incredible control of the football as a thrower. Incredible.

Outside of structure as a sandlot ball player just makes incredible plays. He always knows. I said incredible about four times now. So I think you're getting the point. He's very incredible as a player. he let's see here what else we're talking about i i feel like we've talked about him so much i'd like forget what to say about him at this point but yes incredible tools high high level processor out of structure he always knows where every piece on the board is um very good athlete he's a he's a

like above average to maybe even elite scrambler i think he's like er rhodges but maybe probably faster and bigger yeah i think he's a little more dynamic and elusive as a scramble like he makes guys miss in the open field. And so, I don't know, I just think this is a potential top tier starter in the NFL. How can't miss is he, DK? Compared to all the other number one overall

prospects, your Trevor Lawrence, is your Andrew Lux? Is he in that range? I think he has elite traits. I think when it comes to like how much of a can't miss prospect he is, like a lot of that goes to the mental side of the game, how he's able to deal with the pressure, the fame, the money, all that stuff

that kind of can throw guys off. and just basically dealing with NFL defenses is so much different than dealing with college defenses. But when you're looking at tools, I think he's among the best all-time talents in terms of overall arm talent, arm strength, maneuverability inside and outside the pocket. He has all that stuff.

He's just a little undersized, but that's sort of picking nits at this point because he has all the other tools that you want. So like, you ready to argue against Caleb Williams here? We really, we're really going to trust another Lincoln Riley quarterback. We're going to do that? Baker Mayfield first. Did we feel good about that?

Did we feel good about Kyle Murray for the playoffs? Do we feel good about Kyle Murray for Strong Pick? Do you feel good about Spencer Rattler, transferred to South Carolina, scared to compete? Your concerns with Caleb, right, are that he had its unbelievable season in 2022, right? He's been caliber season, first year in USC to throw the ball over the yard. And then he didn't play baseball in 2020. And you saw that line got shaky or some of the bad habits pop up where he's willing to run around and and scramble and take a lot of sacks, take a lot of pressure. We talk a lot about how Jane and Daniels, when he gets pressured,

has a really, really high sack rate and how that's concerning for the league. Caleb's final season was about where Jane Daniels was in terms of taking sacks at a really high rate when he was pressured. He will deny open routes in favor of just running around back there and trying to create something off script. He will deny the script, an open receiver in time, in the concept, in rhythm, because he wants to just run around back there and see if he can make some superhero plays. So he put the Superman cape on a lot, and there's certainly some great plays

when he puts a Superman cape on, but you do have to worry about it. about one, how much he decides to do that and to some of the negative plays that he creates otherwise. Besides that, and weirdly arguing that Lincoln Riley ruins quarterbacks, I think was my first presentation there, it's tough to argue against him. I'm not going to indulge in any of the like, oh, off field, you know, the concerns with his dad, oh, what is you like? You've seen a lot of the discourse with him the last couple weeks of like, oh, how has he comport himself? He's in, you know, USC basketball games. He's got a pink phone case. Is he going to bust it? That doesn't even deserve this exercise, which is a made of exercise.

He's going to bust. Is he going to bust? There's nothing wrong. There's nothing at a basketball game. Is he going to bust? Which is fine. Which is a fine thing to say. I say.

Ben's case against Caleb Williams made me think of Sequin Barclay. Basically, like the home run hitter running back that Caleb Williams is almost kind of that version of a quarterback where he will refuse to take the four or five-yard run because of the possibility of maybe hitting a 20 to 30-yard run. I think the downside is Matt Eber Fluse. The Bayside coach gets fired. I feel like that's. kind of, that's the moment. Am I allowed to step outside of my role for a second?

You have to stay negative. Ben, how much do you believe what you just said? As a little dude? I mean, the thing is, like, I believe it's true that Caleb puts on the Superman Cape too many times and it has some bad plays because of it. I think that he is five percentage points, five degrees beyond like a optimal range or like an acceptable range. He's a little bit too much on the aggressive side of things. I oftentimes when people, are talking about this quarterback class, they compare Caleb and his tendencies to scramble and try to create outside of structure and talk the ball and do all this nonsense with Jaden Daniels. And they're like, oh, everybody loves it with Caleb.

Why don't it love it for Daniels? Because Daniels is like 20 degrees, 25 degrees beyond optimal, beyond ideal, right? And so with Caleb, you can make just like a, hey, like, there's a little bit of his play style. This way the guy's coded. Like, he still's overall very good argument. That's sound. With Jaden, it's like there's some legitimate recalibration that's needed for you to become tenable.

So that's why, like, I wanted to make a little bit of like a out of character qualification because people are using that argument I just use about Caleb in bad faith in my opinion and trying to be like, oh, well, we should all like Jade and that. There's shades of gray in this. He's going to be pretty good. Hot take. If it's just trying to figure out which side he lands on there.

I think the real question is just because before we move on here in a second, I think the real question is, DK, do you think the bears are, so they got Caleb Williams? What's a realistic to expect immediately? Like, could the Bears just win the NFC North? You got a Packer's team. I mean, the Lions almost made the Super Bowl. Packers almost made the NSC championship game.

The Vikings might have one of the other quarterbacks we talk about. It's weird because the Bears could win the division. They could also come in forth and be good. Yeah. That is where I'm more at. They could be competitive. I don't see them winning the division necessarily unless Caleb Williams outplays expectations of what you would expect for a rookie quarterback.

Even the best rookie quarterbacks sometimes have pretty big growing pains. Like, CJ Stroud last year was incredible and turned. They helped turn a really bad team into a playoff contender. But most of the time, rookie quarterbacks struggle. There's just a lot of things that you have to learn when you come into the NFL. That being said, I really like what the Bears have done. To like, number one, they've built up their defense over the last couple of years. And two, they've added really good skill players in DJ Moore, Keenan Allen.

They added some like role playing skill players in DeAndre Swift, Gerald Everett. Like these guys are going to help Caleb Williams from the get-go. not going to have to carry them on his back. And like Ben said, he's not going to have to be playing hero ball all the time in theory. Hopefully he can learn and that part of the game can be massaged a little bit out of him just because you don't want him to feel like he has to go out and win every game. Someone said he's like trying to hit a five run home run every time he goes and takes a snap. Like that's the sort of mentality he had playing for a team that had that was giving up 40 plus

points every game. And so the supporting cast is surprisingly good for the top overall pick. I don't think it's unrealistic to say. the best that's been in the last decade. If you look at the first quarterback taken in the last 10 drafts, Caleb's supporting cast is pretty easily the best that we've ever had. It's not even really close. So I would say if you look at the last 10 quarterbacks taken first overall or just first

in their class, none of them had winning records. None of them even, six wins is pretty much the max any of these guys can get. I think Caleb's team could easily be above 500 to start the year. Yeah. Or so for year one. Yeah. So Caleb is obviously a virtual lock to go first overall, right? He is right now minus 8,000 on Fandle. So if we look to the division odds right now, who's most likely to win the NFC North, implied Caleb is on the Bears. It's pretty likely for this book. Lines are plus 130. Packers are plus 210. So they are not distant third behind the Green Bay Packers, who were a playoff team. And obviously the Detroit Lions who won the division were a playoff team. Vikings for perspective are plus 750. Right. And so books are telling you, hey, like, the The Bears are like, they're not favored to win the division. They're not likely to win the division.

But they are, you know, cheeky fun, right? They are very much in the conversation of causing noisy NFC North. I think that's a fair estimation for this team. Next up here, we got Drake May, quarterback at a UNC, sophomore, 21.6 years old, second youngest are all the quarterback prospects in this, the top quarterbacks in this draft. Drake May is 6'4, 220 pounds. So he's got like the prototypical size. Drake, Drake Mae's dad, what is that?

Ben's making noises over here. Drake May. I saw him in person in Vegas, the Super Bowl. Strapping young fellow. Yeah, yeah, sir. Drake May's dad was also the quarterback at UNC. It's like a whole athletic family. Drake May's brother Luke may won a basketball championship at UNC.

His brother Cole won a baseball title of Florida. So just a ridiculously athletic family, probability frame, DK. arm strength, instinctual play, making infinite upstate of the badges you gave them NFLdraft. Dotterino.com. Craig, you want to use your weird course? Why do you have a Coors coin? So I'll keep this tight. This weekend, I was with some friends.

They just got back from Colorado. While in Colorado, they visited the Coors Factory. Colorado. Sorry. Colorado. It is Colorado. That was on me. Visited the Coors Factory.

It got me a little. It's a ballmarker. But it's like basically a coin. So is this for Solek or is this for me? we'll just keep it where Pro is is or heads is DK is pro

Drake May tails against I actually am confused you know it just it sounds like you got the plot there so sure we're just doing it the same way for every single quarterback

Got it got it and we can just start positive whoever one whichever way it lands it is heads All right Like me dude Too easy

Yeah So my number one And my number two ranked players on the big board I'm going to have to talk about as positives. Let's see here. Drake Bay,

prototypical size. This is exactly the type of athlete you want at the quarterback position in terms of his size, arm strength, running ability, ability to shake off tacklers, ability to stand strong in the pocket, all those things. He is a big game hunter. He's very aggressive as a passer.

He goes for the big play. When he doesn't do that, he's able to scramble around by himself time. He has a little bit of the same type of, I wouldn't say he's as good as Caleb Williams as a out-of-structure genius, but he can do a little bit of that too. He can get around. There was a famous play.

I can't remember who was against where he scrambled outside the pocket, saw a guy get opened downfield and threw it with his left hand for a touchdown. So this is the type of player that you're getting outside of structure. Aggressiveness, arm strength, again, he can throw the ball really far. He can throw a frozen rope down the field, hit all the throws that you need to throw in the NFL. And he can do that with guys draped on him. just a really strong, big strong player. I would say accuracy is above average.

That wouldn't be like maybe his top trait, but it's a very strong accuracy, especially when his feet are set. He had 34 big-time throws in 2023, according to PFF, which was second in football only, second only to Michael Panics, which is kind of, again, tells you he's big game hunter, going for the big play, like going for touchdowns.

That mentality, I think, is going to pay off, especially relative to some of the other quarterbacks in this class, I think that's like one of his big strengths. So he is basically like if you're making a checklist of things you want as a starting franchise quarterback in the NFL, he checks almost every single one of them. Who is his best case scenario comp? Justin Herbert in my mind.

Like if you remember coming into the draft, actually, Justin Herbert was the third, he was the third quarterback off the board. And I think a lot of people thought that was like he was overdraft. I feel like Drake May is getting some of the similar type of hype lack of hype, I should say. People are dragging him down a little bit because lapses in accuracy. I think, you know, he had a couple of plays where he was just trying too hard and throwing it into coverage.

And some people have moved him down their boards. But I think just when you look at the tools and what he was able to do with a offense and with some receivers that were, I believe, pretty subpar. You know, he has high, high end potential like Justin Herbert of just a guy that has all the tools. and he also, by the way, he barely ever turned the ball over. Also, wasn't, Herbert was kind of knocked for being kind of a timid guy, not exactly like a locker room galvanizer, a little bit to himself. May is a pretty charismatic team leader type guy, right? So he has kind of the intangible, stereotypical off-the-field charisma stuff

that you would want a quarterback. Yeah, I think so. And I mean, it also helps, like, he came from a family of big-time sports stars. So it's like none of this stuff is really that foreign to him. He's like been around these big games in multiple different sports. His dad obviously was a big sports star. So like I think he's kind of just like been, he's grown up in this. And he's ready for it.

Yeah. So yeah, the other thing I would say is like underrated about his game is he's really good with the pre-snap phase. Like he gets cess protections. He points out where pressure is coming. He knows where his outlets are, things like that. like higher level stuff that you don't necessarily expect from a guy, especially who's only 21 years old. Like, again, this is relative to guys who, like, have been in college football for six years.

Like, he's doing all this stuff, and he's 21 years old. All right. So, like, what's wrong with him? Why does he suck? Because of how bad he is. D.K. D.K. said he has everything that you want a top quarterback to have. What about, like, clean footwork?

What about, what about avoiding turnover-worthy plays, not doing the knucklehead and stuff? You could coach that stuff. Yeah, no, I can't. I'm a bad coach in this hypothetical. May has a lot of gamer in his blood. May has a lot of like, oh, dad, watch this to him. You want to see something? And accordingly, he will take pockets that are like a little bit messy

and make him a lot messy because he holds under the ball too much or he hitches up into pressure instead of managing it. And he has moments where it's good, but he also has moments where he's being irresponsible because he's like, oh, I'm big, I'm strong, just going to throw it. Watch this. he loves his arm. He thinks his arm is incredible. And accordingly, he will take his feet out of throws.

He'll take his core out of throws, right? He will just, because of lazy, lower half mechanics, just decide to make throws a lot more challenging than they need to be. So he's just doing all arm power. And that leads to accuracy train, right? That leads to some scattershot ball location as well. And a lot of this stuff is laziness is the wrong word, but it is kind of perceived immortality, right?

Where he's like, I mean, I got hit this. Like, don't worry about it. And it's like, well, yeah, but you still have to do it right every single time to make sure that you hit it right every single time. He also, like, you know, we talk a lot about Caleb, you know, running around incredible downfield accuracy. We talk a lot about Jane Daniels, you know, insane amount of explosive plays and like the way the offensive works. There is no quarterback in this league in this draft, excuse me, who hunts big game like Drake May does.

Drake May will see a wide open shallow cross and you're not, I see that young man down there 40 yards down the field. Watch how far I can throw this. He absolutely is obsessed with a shot. And he feels from 15 minutes in the first quarter, it is triple zero to the fourth quarter that he can beat you on one play. And if he sees a sliver of an opportunity, he will take it. That's bad habit. And that's going to be unacceptable in the league where you're playing with first round pixel wide receiver. And you're playing behind $30 million men at tackle. When you need to let them do their part, you let them do their job and get you to the easy throws or give you the protection that you need.

You can't always be trying to decide that you're the one making the play on the roster. And so May's got an easiness to how he plays. that also leads some rough edges around the corner on him that I think is going to temper your expectations for him in year one for sure. And when we started talking about some like Carson Wentz style players, some Drew Locke's style players, Lock wasn't a first rounder, you know, Paxton Lynch, who had some prototypical size, big arm guys,

but then they never got rid of the knucklehead tendencies and they ended up hurting their teams too much. I think that's, you start to make a stormy projection for Drake May. Those are the names that come to mind. Future Starter Giant started Drew Locke, you're talking about there. Be careful. Oh, excuse me, I apologize. The Giant started Jewlock.

I guess when I think of Drake Bay, I'm curious. So Drake May, again, he's 21 years old. He's only started for two years in college. He had a redshirt year. Then he started as a redshirt freshman. He's a redshirt sophomore. Now he's ending the draft. To me, that's in such juxtaposition between the other.

I feel like Jaden Daniels is the competition for Drake May to be the second pick. And Jaden Daniels is, what is? He's 23. So he's, I mean, almost two years older than Drake May. And he played functionally speaking, like, almost more than twice as much football in college. I mean, Jaden Daniels enrolled in college in like January in 2019. And so I guess how do you guys factor in the age to those evaluations? Are you just like, look, they are where they are.

We don't care how they get here. And it's like nice if you're dominating at a younger age. That's cool, but it's not everything. Or do you look at or do you actually think it matters to be comparing 21-year-old Drake May with 21-year-old Jaden Daniels because shit, you think it, Mike May would be two more years of college, would probably get a little more dominant. What percentage of the pie does age hold in your minds? So the thing is like that framework doesn't work because for some prospects, it doesn't hold

a large percentage of the pie. And for other prospects, it holds an enormous percentage of the pie. It is, as all things are in the draft process, age is a win-a-or. It's a red flag. It's not like, oh, you know, I care like 25% about the athleticism, 10% about their age, and so forth. There are all these factors to consider injury history and off-field demeanor and leadership and like on on field performance and strength of competition. Like there's so many factors. And then you're just looking for where red flags pop up. And then you're trying to understand those red flags.

So for Drake May. Drake May was a two-year starter. He's coming out at 21 years old. It's a very standard arc for a quarterback prospect, right? It's about the age that typically come out at. You saw growth from year one to year two. You saw some bad stuff that saved from year one to year two. You understand why he got the starting job.

You can contextualize his production. Oh, it was down a little bit this past year. Oh, well, you know, they lost a lot of their offensive line talent. He had more pressure. Like, okay, I can contextualize his career arc. This makes sense to me. Go to a Jaydon Daniels at LSU. Five-year starter.

Three years of Arizona State, not considered a high-tier draft prospect. Fourth year, first year at LSU played well, not considered a high-tier draft prospect. It's like an interesting guy. Then all of a sudden, when he's 23, huge leap in his play. He's also playing with two first round picks of wide receiver, Malik Navors, and Brian Thomas,

and potentially two first round offensive tackles at the left side on the right side. Now a red flag pops up, where I'm like, okay, he got good when he was old and all of his teammates are better than the other guys. Now, all of a sudden, age becomes a bigger piece of the pie for Jane Daniels than it was for Drake May, for whom I was like, yeah, okay, this dude just like makes sense.

Like, I get this. You can go the other direction with JJ McCarthy. Like, oh, he has experience and he's young. And now maybe like, again, investigate the context and say, oh, maybe there's more development here to go. So it matters different degrees kind of depending on the context of the player, as all things do in the draft process. Yeah.

I mean, I think it's, at the end of the day, like a GM or, decision maker can't be thinking of it in the way that like, oh, how old is he going to be when he starts his second contract? It's like, ultimately, you have to just be like, who's going to be better, you know, like who is going to give us good play early on? You know, I think when you start to think about what it means to be 21 versus 23 as the second contract starts or whatever, you know, those are, that's getting cute, I think, a little bit in terms of like thinking ahead. Ultimately, you've got to decide who's the better player. but at the same time,

I think a lot of teams look at this like a year, a 23-year-old guy, what kind of things can you add to your game at that point? How much room do you have for development, both personally and, you know, on the field? And so generally speaking,

I think also if you're playing the numbers, there are fewer guys that were in college for five years that turned into high-level quarterbacks in the NFL. It's just generally speaking, if you're better earlier, that just means you're better. So, um, I mean,

D.K., You're the same guy you were when you were 23, right? You don't change. That's how that works. Totally. Yeah. I don't know. It's, this is the art of evaluating quarterbacks.

It's not a science. It's an art because there's so many variables. It's impossible to really, I mean, it's just an impossible thing to do. So might as well go to Jane Daniels right now. We got Jane Daniels LSU. Again, COVID super senior. I mean, three years at Arizona State. He's actually recruited by Antonio Pierce, who's not the head coach for the Raiders.

I mean, he wants, Jan Daniels, one of the Heisman at LSU led FPS college football and basically everything pass a rating yards per attempt everything. Only player at FBS history with 12,000 passing yards and 3,000 rushing yards for Jen Daniels. Part of that's because he played five seasons, but also I just think his stats are cartoonish. He also takes cartoonish hits and just, you know, lives life like he's a bumper car. Flip a coin. Yeah. Let's do this.

If this is tails, I'm calling hijinks. The game is, no, this is better be heads. It's literally a 50-50 proposition. It stales. All right. So lack. Give us the case for Jaden Daniels, baby. He's so fast.

Look at him wrong. There it goes. The speediest bully. Yeah. So Jaden, the LSU offense was walking explosive plays this year, right? I mean, it was downfield shots. It was huge yards after the catch. It was Jane and Daniels both playing within structure and regularly making the right

reading and delivering really accurate footballs. Daniels throws what we call like a very catchable football, right? Like the spiral is clean. He'll place it relative to coverage. He will protect you from hits. Like he understands how to place the football well. And so throwing a real catchable football to Malik Navers and Brian Thomas, some of the star receivers they had there.

But then critically, and this is the thing that I think really can make Jane Daniels special. When he got out of the pocket, I mean, goodness gracious, he is embarrassing secondary players in the SEC. This isn't like I'm running away from lineback because I'm running away from safeties and corners. And these are the best of the safety corners at Alabama and at Georgia and at Florida State, I mean, like, this is everybody. Jaden waiting at the LSU Pro Day, 6,3, 2, 10. We don't get an official 40-yard dash time,

but this looks like a legitimate, you know, 4, 4, 4, 45 player, right? That's kind of the expectation. And so you're dealing with a guy who is going to be capable in the league of being an 11-on-11 threat, right? This is more than like, oh, he's a scrambler. Like, oh, when he tucks and runs, we're a little bit worried. He clears, like the Mahomes bar where it's like, no, no, no, like you're going to design plays to get the ball in his hands.

And defense are going to have to spend the week. caring about what happens when he gets involved in the running game, a la, Kyla Murray, a la Lamar Jackson, a la Jalen Hertz. And so from a physical toolkit perspective, the deep accuracy blend with the movement skills, the running skills, the run away from you skills, that's the sort of impact that Kyla Murray had when he arrived on the Cardinals.

I don't think Kyler is a good comparison for Jane Daniels because the body type just couldn't possibly be more different. But Kyler had that beautiful moonball, any of that ability to screwed away from two, three players, create, you know, turn third and 13, into first and tens, just because he's running around back there, breaking tackles and finding a ray of sunlight. I think the better comparison for

Janney Daniels is probably Robert Griffin the third. In terms of what we saw from him pre-injury before his career, it was far too early ended by his injury there in Washington, where you see a guy who paired with a good offensive coach creates a level of 11-on-11 threats, you know, an integration of the running game, into the read-option game, into the play-action pass game, which is the amount of stress you have to deal with defensively gets your head spinning.

The presence of Jane on the field becomes a rising, tied, lifts the boat to the rest of the offense, makes the angles easier on the running backs, makes the space easier on the wide receivers, so on and so forth. And so that combination of the downfield accuracy and the movement skills, that's not a thing that comes out every season. That's why you rank Jane Daniels very highly. Gosh, I'm selling my soul on this podcast. I hate the show.

This is just bullying at this point. All right, so the counterpoint to the Jane Daniels thing. To me, Jane Daniels is a little bit of like a siren song at the quarterback position because I think he has elite upside. absolutely elite upside, but some of the things that he does, and I think the prototype of quarterback that he is, or the archetype of quarterback that he is, is similar enough to Justin Fields that it's starting to make me very nervous.

Because, number one, obviously Justin Fields, incredible athlete, really good in the run game, what he can do as a scrambler and as a design run guy. I think that Jane Daniels brings that dual threat nature that you can really make things difficult for the defense. It's going to be hard to game plan for this guy. But his ability to deal with pressure and what his first instinct to do with pressure was similar to what Justin Fields is, and that's just takeoff running. And if you look at some of the numbers, the pressure to sack rate, and the pressure to actually making a throw rate is very concerning because basically that's his answer to pressure, at least right now in his career.

It's just a take off running. pair that with the fact that he's very skinny. And he has right now, again, right now, at least he doesn't protect himself. It's a concern that, Hyfitz, you asked him at the combine. Like, what are you going to do to protect yourself better at the next level? He kind of like shrugged it off and gave like this answer. Was like, that's just how I play. Like to me, this is a little bit concerning.

What he actually said was, hey, man, like God, God's got me so far. And then someone who I will leave on name turn to me. He was like, does he know that like defenders pray to God to? Do? God's also got Miles Garrett as well. So I think, like, the combination of the run game is going to be a huge part of his, of his entire skill sets going to be a big part of his game. And he both has not proven that he's able to, like, protect himself. He's very skinny.

And he doesn't seem to want to protect himself. That is concerning to me. That is my big worry. So basically what I'm saying is, I can see this guy being, you know, not to compare. him too much to Robert Griffin, but like a flash in the pan, a guy who's really, really exciting, but ultimately a guy who can't protect himself. I'm just worried that injuries might catch up with him at the next level. I think that's, I know I sound a little bit like a nervous Jewish mother, but I really do

wonder about the protection thing because I actually think the skinniness doesn't bother me. I kind of think it's super overrated. The idea, well, bigger people mask and take hits. Dude, no one can take hits. Like, you're not supposed to take hits from these people. It doesn't matter. Like, and you can be a peak performance. Like, you avoid hits.

I don't care. Russell's thick. Lamar Jackson's thin. The point is don't take hits and you will stay healthy. Anthony Richardson is like one of the largest, thickest quarterback prospects we see. He made it three games because he was like not, he was like taking on hits.

The idea that Jen Daniels is skinny and also just like, yeah, I'll take as many as I can. And my question on that note, DK is if you're a coach, you have, literally, any coach, it's malpractice. If you're number one coaching point to Jen Daniels is not, like go down, bro. You have to go down, right?

They're going to have to drill that in his head. How do you do that when you simultaneously also need Jaden Daniels? That's what makes him magical is the ability to do these scrambles. But you also need to teach him to scramble while keeping his eyes downfield because you want him to learn to keep the play alive and throw. And it's like, well, now it's like golf. It's like you're going to keep all this stuff in your head like the play, do all that. Now the play's over.

It's like, oh, run, but go down. But be who you are. But also keep your eyes down. It's like, to me, it's like you need very good coaching to nail all that. Yeah, it's a little like this is not the same, but it's. it's in the same ballpark is like teaching a guy how to throw a little bit differently. It's like when you're on the field and like under the big lights and like guys are running at you, you just tend to revert to like who you are.

You know what I mean? Like you tend to revert to your natural form as a thrower. And I think the same could be said probably for what he's doing as a runner. And it, you know, like it occurred to me watching him recently. Like when you watch some of these big runs that he makes, he has like multiple like opportunities to sort of slide or just like dive. and go down with the football, but he tries to, like, scoot through a little,

like a few more, like, get through one. It's like a guy, like, swerving in through traffic. You know, it's like, if you just are happy with, like, an 18-yard run versus trying to go for a 50-yard run. It's like when you're, like, playing baseball and you have two strikes. It's like, you just choke up and make contact rather than try and just, like, hit a home run.

And it seems like he's not really doing that. I mean, and that's not to say he can't do it, but I just haven't really seen him do that very much. And I think there is also just as a player, you tend to see this in the NFL. Guys just know how to avoid taking big hits. That's like Russell Wilson rarely took a big hit as a runner. He rushed a bunch of yards.

I would say the same as like Patrick Boholmes is pretty good at that. Like he can always buy himself an extra beat and sort of like slide away. And he'll get like sort of like, you know, side swipe but not like blown up in a really big collision. I think Lamar Jackson is the same. You rarely see him take like a real full head-on collision. But if you look at Jane Daniels, it's like he's getting rocked and he's getting thrown around and knocked back really hard. And that to me, those types of collisions are worrisome. I know people probably are annoyed at us because we kind of harp on this a lot.

But I think it is a big deal. I've changed my opinion on this. This is a good exercise. Because so far, I presented the three cases that I completely disagree with. And now if I'm wrong in any of these prospects, I'll just clip this podcast and be like, see. This is good, get this audio out. No, I agree with DK. From a play style perspective,

I'm worried about Daniel's size long term. His health long term. Hyford springs up the fact that, okay, maybe size body armor doesn't predict health as much as you think it does. The playstyle thing still gets it there for me, and I still believe in the body armor to a degree, right? I still absolutely think being this a thinner guy, like the hits are going to hurt you more,

especially over an 18-game season. So 18-week, 17-game season as you go. the other thing is that like I just this sort of profile strip away the names from it all and just like fifth year senior

has elite season throwing to two first round rider receivers behind like literally college football leading levels of protection it's like yeah like this should raise

red flags for us that doesn't mean Jadennails is going to be bad or that what he did is bad it's just that that context has to invite some question marks into our mind about what percentage of the pie

he was responsible for in his offense it's just harder to have feel more certainty in him relative to Caleb and Drake, who I can say emphatically, did more for their offenses than Jane did because of the nature of the guys they were playing with. Kenny Pickett, also kind of first rounder. Senior quarterback, great receiver.

Yeah. Just throwing it out there. Craig. Philadelphia Eagle. Go birds. We got J.J. McCarthy, the man of the hour, the Michigan man of the hour. All right. J.G. McCarthy. I can do either one here. So I'm feeling great.

he's 6'4-3, 219 pounds, 21.2 years old, youngest of the quarterback prospects this year. So, you know, Michigan went undefeated. J.J. McCarthy won the national championship at Michigan this year. He's the goalpost meditation guy just out here. I'm torn because on one hand he can meditate and then the camera shut up. But, you know, he's a meditation guy. And it's weird because on one hand, undefeated national champion, I think he's lost

three football. He's like 68 and 3 since he was like 10. But at the same time, he had, McCarthy had like no pass attempts in the second half for Spence State. You're like 10 completions in the championship game. He just barely throws the ball in a lot of games. So I could care less about the like how many wins he has in his life stat. I think that stat is the dumbest stat in the world.

Oh, he went into the NFL loves it. I'll bet you're 10 bucks right now in the first five sentences of the GM and the team that drafts McCarthy, they mentioned his winning record. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Wasn't Carla Murray like undefeated his whole life? And it's like, okay, now he's lost 35 games in the NFL. It's just like me, has nothing to do.

with anything. Delaware lost one football game from 12 to his rookie season. All right, Craig, you want to do the coin flip here? I can't wait for Seleck to have to talk up McCarthy and then just the... I'm finding the other one. Heads, D.K.

is pro-McCarthy. All right. McCarthy is a trick the coin. The coin was like, oh, he doesn't care anymore. This is the second coin. Reverse psychology with the coin. He dropped it. It is tails.

Okay, so I'm, I'm negative on McCarthy. That's right. Ben? Wait. I thought you... I got confused. I thought Craig said that it was heads, but I think he was.

I feel like you neither of you were like looking at. Oh, I hadn't flipped yet. I was just, I was letting the listeners, no, I was reminded them, heads is pro McCarthy for you.

I thought it successfully pulled the coin. I hadn't successfully fooled the coin. Frick. All righty. J.J. McCarthy. I's, pro style offense. JJ at Michigan was not asked to do a ton,

but what he was asked to do, he actually did at a pretty high level, right? This is a quarterback who is able to make accurate throws to the middle of the field at all three levels. And he makes them with good timing, good anticipation and good velocity. He can hit NFL windows in the middle of the field, which is something that you really can't say about like a Jane Daniels, who really struggles to that area.

I think that you've seen Drake and Caleb throw to the middle of the field, but they see NFL windows a little bit less because the nature of those offenses, the spread out style of it. You go like that Minnesota film, go to that Ohio State film. He is throwing middle of the field between linebackers, manipulating players with his eyes, finding the second window. like this is pro-style stuff. When you hear the league talk about why they like JJ,

you hear them say a lot, like, this is a pro-style quarterback. He's like the most complete quarterback, Harbaugh said. He's got like polished to him. You see that and how he manages the pocket, right? He'll adjust the drops a little bit,

left and right, by himself a little half second, hitch up, make things easier for his guard, set his feet to his second read and throw it. And it's just, it's,

it's teach tape stuff. It is high polish. It is pro-caliber stuff. Now the arm is live, right? McCarthy doesn't get talked about us having a Drake mayor or Caleb Williams arm, and that's correct, because it's not,

to it, but from a zip perspective, he's got a fast release. He can whip that thing around. He can really, he can drive the football with good timing. You'll see him account for being late to throws by catching up to the throw with some of that speed. And so there are good tools here. You have the arm speed and then also the movement speed. He's a fine move. I think he's, again, he's a scrambler. He's not really a designed in the running game the way that Jane Daniels is. What I will say for JJ McCarthy is that he is a delightful thrower on the move. That's because he's a very loose athlete, right? He's got good flexibility to him. He's got good flexibility to him. He's got good co-witness to him.

And so when he uncorks that thing on the run right or left, he could throw to his left, his right-handed quarterback very, very well. He can create throws now outside of structure, create scramble throw throws, that like this is going to be an impactful part of his game in the league, that ability to create throws on the run in the rollout game.

So it's like very clearly a Shanahan quarterback because the area of the field he throws too well. He has a great sense of timing in space. And then he has the ability to make movement throws, right? Which, you know, they do this a little bit less like Shanahan and McDaniel, but still some of those inspired systems will still boot their quarterbacks out a lot. And J.J. McCarthy is going to benefit from a boot system.

We've talked about age earlier. This is a really young player. Well, he has a lot of starting experience. You can see some of the rough edges that can be smoothed out, right? He kind of blanks on coverage sometimes. It just makes like knucklehead 101 mistakes, mistakes he would never make on the chalkboard. That sort of thing that age is going to help, I think, to get out of his game. You see him take some bad sacks sometimes.

You run around back there. You think age is going to take that out of his game. So you can see him as he grows, kind of taking away a few of the negative plays. and then allowing his just like solid positive profile to continue to speak for him. This is like a fine starting quarterback in the league and the most popular system in the league. It's understandable why the league likes him so much. Not bad. I'm somewhat sold.

You're a McCarthyite now, Craig. D.K. don't want to speak out against McCarthyism? Yeah, so basically while I think you could put together like a pretty impressive highlight reel of some of his best throws. Like he has some seam balls that he just absolutely rips into tight coverage, right exactly where you want to put it. There was some, I would say, concerns I'd had with his accuracy, he tends to throw behind receivers on crossing routes and it makes them slow up or like try and twist and doesn't like give them an opportunity to get some yak. I thought there was some decision-making issues where he, there was a couple plays where he got away with it, but he was

running to his right and it just chucks it across his body all the way to the left side of the field. It's like that kind of stuff you're not going to get away with at the next level. I thought he has a good, not great arm. His frame, why? While he bulked up for the combine, I think he still has on tape, like a pretty thin frame. That's a slight concern. And honestly, just like the experience factor, I think everything that you talk about with McCarthy is a projection. It's basically saying, look, we've seen him do this a few times. That means he can do it at the NFL level, whereas I think his consistency is slightly concerning.

And he just hasn't done it a lot. Like, he hasn't been asked to bring his team from behind very often or ever, really. It's like they're always, this is like a commonly cited stab, but like he barely ever plays in the third fourth quarter. Like his number of fourth quarter throws is like, too busy winning. Yeah, it's like, but also like wouldn't you want to see a quarterback who's like behind a touchdown or 10 points in the fourth quarter and like leads his team back

and that kind of thing? Like more experience with that. I think a lot of what we're talking about with JJ McCarthy is just like pure projection of what he could be rather than what he already is. And that's the draft in general. But to me, the talk of him being a top five pick. is a little rich just because we're sort of projecting what he could be. And I don't even think his tools and his traits are high level.

So I think it's just like we're running into some of the things we did with Zach Wilson where it's like, oh, look at these tools. Look at what he could be. But that's like in a best case scenario. And I think like the likelihood is he'll be like an average quarterback in the NFL, but not a high level quarterback. So a rare genuine defense of Jay-J-Macarthy here from Ben Zola. the Zach Wilson thing because like movement-wise he reminds me so much of Zach build and

movement and looseness on the run and the way the arm works absolutely decision-making where he decides to fill the football and when he decides to do it he's so much better than Zach and that like as somebody who really really really doubted Wilson coming out if you could have gotten some of McCarthy's prudence and sense of timing sense of risk willing to play with instruction you've got to gotten that into Zach's body I would have been so on board and so I do think that like I because I've thought about comping him blow end-wise to Zach Wilson, and I can never get there to what sunk Zach's ship,

that lack of good decision-making good risk management, that willingness to throw just in rhythm on time to the first read. Like, McCarthy's got that. And so if McCarthy's ship sinks, I don't think it'll be for the same reasons as Wilson does. And that's why I feel better about him as like a system starter, spot starter than I did about Zach, because I think Zach is probably a much lower floor. I think the thing that reminds me of Zach is, and maybe this is just

my bias or whatever. But it feels like a lot of the buildup right now in the media is like turning JJ McCarthy into like a Josh Allen level physical talent, which is I think what we did. Like a lot of people compared Zach Wilson to like Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rogers, like two of the best armed like talent players I've ever seen. And I never really thought that Zach Wilson had that good of an arm. And I think we're doing some of the same stuff with JJ McCarthy. We're like, calling him elite just based on like decent throws you know what i mean like you see like a decent throw on tape is like oh my god this guy's amazing this is what we did with zach wilson i think and so that's that's that's sort of the parallels i'm getting with him that being said like you know i think he's

i do think he will end up being a pretty good starter in the NFL i just don't know if he has that elite ceiling that the other guys in this class do so here's my question because on one hand yeah jjcci mccarthy has not played as many snaps in football as these other guys because again, most teams are going to throw more in the second half as you're behind or whatever. Meanwhile, Michigan's just paving over all these opponents. J.J. McCarthy didn't play in seven different fourth quarters. You know, his counting stats are basically half because you didn't need to throw. And, you know, I think he threw like, no, three, no passes in the second half against Penn State,

three passes in the second half against Maryland, 10 total in the championship game. Having said that, on one hand, sure, no experience. On the other hand, JJ McCarthy has more experience than these. other guys like lining up under center, running a pro-style offense in the sense of changing plays, changing, like having to like... McCarthy didn't change plays too much. I would definitely say that Drake may definitely leads the class in terms of changing plays, setting protection out of the pre-saccom.

McCarthy also is able to set protections. So, I mean, in a way, doesn't he have more experience than some of these guys that's stuff? I mean, I would say, like, I don't experience McCarthy as setting protections at above-average rate relative to most college quarterbacks. I would say he's about on it. The myth-making, the amount of people who say he sets protection, much higher than the average college quarterback. In terms of watching it, I personally don't like,

I think he does it. And usually when he does it, I like what he's setting to. I think he knows what he's looking at. But the idea that, like, oh, he sets so much of protection to the other guys, I don't think that's true. I find that to be very spurious. When I say pro-style, McCarthy definitely, in my opinion,

and this is like such an amorphous thing. But in terms of, like, NFL style concepts, where it's like, hey, like, we're running stick, and it's tied to a three-step drop. You have to get to your back foot in time and you have to decide on the hitch where you're throwing this. You have to throw this in rhythm.

And if you don't get that done, you have to get to the backside right now because our protection is set for three-step drop and the routes are breaking and you have to go. They can turn with that reality, McCarthy absolutely has more snaps than Jaden and Drake and Caleb. But isn't that what he always talk about as the essence of NFL quarterbacking?

It's like a rhythm-based passing game from the pocket. And the other stuff is like nice to have on top. I said in my defenseman pro-style quarterback. I think that that absolutely, that is real. The reason why I cut you off is just the changing plays and setting protection, people loop that into pro-style quarterback, and understandably so. But with McCarthy, I think it's very important to say he did not change plays or set protections more than like Drake May. Very clearly, in my opinion, I think more than like the average NFL prospect that comes out.

I think that a lot of that conversation around, particularly setting protections, is a lot of myth-making. TK, do you think it's a mistake for the Vikings to trade up to four and take McCarthy? I don't know. I go back and forth on it. I think that's a perfect fit for him. So ultimately, no. I think it's a risky move, though. But, I mean, trading up for anybody is a risky move.

Because the alternative is it's like, oh, it seems nice to say, yeah, do it or don't. The Broncos are sitting there behind you and they might trade up if you don't get it. No, ultimately, I don't think it's a bad move. I think it's super risky and it comes with potential to be very disappointing. But then, I mean, at the same time, like, you can say that about pretty much any quarterback. I think he perfectly fits their system. They were going to have a good supporting supporting cast around him.

I could see that. He's going to walk into him. I cannot think. I would say not since Dak Prescott walking into the 2016 Dallas Cowboys, which, I mean, super different situation. He's a fourth rounder.

He started because Tony Romo got his back hurt. But I would say 2016 Cowboys or Russell Wilson walking to Legion Boobo C.Ox was the last time a rookie quarterback is going to have as good of his situation to succeed as Kevin O'Connell head coach, Justin Jefferson,

and Jordan Addison receiver, Hawkinson coming off ACL, but still a tight end, plus an actual offensive line that has two good offensive tackles. It's just like an extremely rare thing. So my high-end, mid-range, low-end cons for J.J. McCarthy. My high-end is Brock Purdy, which is complementary. My mid-range is Brock Purdy derogatory. And then, of course, my low-end would be Zach Wilson.

So basically, do you understand what I'm saying, like, I think if J-G McCarthy goes in and is putting up big numbers, it is really exciting and doing all the things that Brock Pardy does, there's probably going to be contingent of people sticking to their prayers and saying he's not doing anything, he's just part of the offense. And there's also going to be people who really liked him before the draft and they're going to say,

see, I told you so. I could absolutely see this playing out. You know what I mean? Where would Purdy go in this draft? The prospect or who we know him to be now? No, the guy right now, literally for some weird reason, the Niners are penalized and Roger Goodell announced that

I still think Caleb Williams would go above him. Yeah, I take him too. You take him on a drink, man? Yeah, because I know what he is, right? I know I'm positive in the league. He's like, he could start. So I think I would take him too. He is, yeah, he is to me, like, I think the JJ Brock comparison is really good,

both in terms of play style and in terms of like the sort of career arcs that they can have. I know we debated do comp for career arc and so on and so forth. I think it's a very good comp. The only thing I will say is that Brock will shoot, Brock will throw down the field, man, launch that sucker. JJ, and I talked about this, I did, I did JJ's phone for the play sheet this past week on the ring of YouTube. Man, when JJ throws down the field, I see darkness.

When JJ throws far down the field, I get, I get real, I shakey. Like, I like a JJ. I think I'll end up with JJ ranked above Jane Daniels for me in terms of this quarterback class. But neither one of those guys I like is top 10, top 15 players. And the thing for JJ for me is when he throws down the field, the accuracy is scary, scary bad. And so the Brock comp is pretty good.

But the one area that might make Brock special for the Niners, it might be the one area that JJ lacks. So you think the Patriots should trade down out of three is what you're saying. No, because if they trade down, they're not going to get, there's no going to be no quarterbacks left. They got to pay the tax. But for me, if I run in the Patriots at three, and then Caleb goes one and Drake May goes two,

I'm going to see what the trade down offers look like. And if I have to stay there and take JJ McCarthy, I say, okay, well, I don't like doing this, but this is the cost of doing business here, taking quarterbacks in the NFL draft. Next up here, we have Michael Pennix, Jr., quarterback at Washington. He is a COVID super duper senior for Michael Pennix,

six years of college football, four years at Indiana, four different season ending injuries, two different tears of his right ACL, broke both his shoulders, transferred to Washington, had a couple healthy years, a couple healthy,

incredible seasons. Not great. I mean, not great. Well, the broken shoulders. Right ACL's pretty battle tested now. That thing's secure. What doesn't kill you only makes his drocker.

Probably more secure than his left ACL, let's be honest. Probably. Jesus. He's 23.9 years old. He turns 24, like a few days after a couple weeks after the NFL draft. Michael Pennix has been in college so long

with seven different Spider-Man movies. came out while he was in college. So that's a he got to go on a year. That almost sounded like you were about to do like an old school comedy routine. Like Michael Penix is so old. How old is he? We can make that a pod thing.

Anytime hyphen says that he's so blank, we can be as a chorus. How blank is he? He's older than Trey Lance. Oh, wow. Michael Pennix is older than Trey Lance. Yeah. So he probably threw more passes last year

than Trey Lance has still. That is true. I lost my coin. I don't know that's possible. Craig, do you still have yours? I actually lost it. I got my coin.

Okay, good. I've displaced mine. All right. If this is heads, I have not flipped it yet. If this is heads, DK is pro-penix. If it is tails, D-K. is anti-penix. All right.

It is tails. So Ben is pro-penix. Ben is really. Ben's strike it out to that. I have been very clear in the week of preamble, we have had meetings of ourselves, the production team, with leaders of this company,

they're all like, man, wait for the QB coin flip episode. We all love this episode. I was so excited. I've been very clear at every meeting. I hate this episode. It's because this is what happened. I offend Kenny Pickett's, but downhill since then. Oh, yeah. I mean like, okay. Penix. All right, get into character now. Yeah. He's like, every time I keep doing this. This is my like settling hand motion. Penix. I mean, the, the final film speaks for itself, right? Like, this is a quarterback who can throw an accurate football to any level of the field. And he will throw into

tight coverage with the trust and belief that if he puts 50, 50 balls in place, he can make those into 70, 30 balls of this placement. He trusts his receivers to win those passes for him. We saw particularly that semi-final game against Texas. You saw a really nice menu of the amount of throws that he can make over the middle of the field, in structure, out of structure, downfield, downfield, middle of field, throwing that big post route, throwing those nine routes down the sideline. He has every arrow in his quiver.

And I think when we start to talk about this third tier of quarterbacks, right? 1A is May and Caleb for me. 1B is Dr. and J.J. McCarthy. When we started by the third tier, him, Bo Nix at Oregon and Spencer Rattler at South Carolina. I think Pennix is the only one of the three that has like every throw in his bag unquestionably. So you can access all areas of the field for you. The other thing we really started to see in that semi-final game against Texas that was again, one of his best, I think it was his best film, is that he can manage the pocket well, right?

And this is a quarterback who's able to buy you a half second, buy you a full second. We had a really weird moment with Pennix this week where Pennix tested out as Pro Day. And I remember at Indianapolis, when he was potentially going to run at the combine, that his 40-yard dash time was listed like mid-four-fives. And I was like, there's no way this guy runs four-fives. Like, he is not a scrambler. He didn't break any angles. He wasn't exposed to like, this is the ludicrous time.

And then he ran or reported like 4-4-6, 45-4-40-yard dashed pro day. There's absolute wheels on him. And so he's a good pocket manager. And he jumped high, too. Good athlete. I have questions about- ligaments are fake. His legs are all just made of metal.

It's a bionic. This is all steel cable. I have questions about why the the explosiveness and the long speed never really showed up on film. He was not a particularly dangerous scrambler, but he was a good player at buying time away from pressure than making throws from behind the line of scrimmage. And we talked a lot in this podcast about like aggressiveness

and willingness to throw down field. Pennix also very clearly clears the bar of going to be able to execute an NFL offense, going to be able to make big plays. You create chunks, explosive players. That's what's going to win in the league. He's able to make those throws down the field. He is willing to take.

test those windows down with that. I think he has a nice blend of take what the defense gives me, but also I'll look for some kill shots. I think he's good in that regard. You're very concerned about the injury profile. You're very concerned about the production of his age. He played with three NFL wide receivers. Stop stealing all my answers. But

yeah, he's still good. I don't know. Yeah, the opposite side of the coin there is, yes, the injury thing, it's real. It's actually a concern. He's busted, like you said, like I have it said, bolt of his shoulders,

or shoulders twice and his ACL twice. These are major injuries that it cost him time. He's almost 24 years old. So he is not the type of player you draft and sit and develop probably. And that kind of, I think, limits his fit and where he's going to land in the NFL. So like alluded to it, he was playing behind the best offensive line in college football. He was playing with...

I didn't even say the offensive line thing. I was trying to defend the guy. Yeah. Best offensive line in college football, which obviously helps a lot. especially for a guy that does not really scramble. He was playing with a top five receiver in Roma Dunes Day 2, probably day two receivers in Jalen McMillan and Jalen Polk.

Good run game. He basically had the perfect system around him to succeed. And yes, he did execute it well, but the translation to the NFL is a little bit dubious, I think. And so the other thing is in the short and intermediate area, he was not very comfortable throwing to that area of the field. His numbers were not very good there. not good under pressure. Generally speaking, his numbers were pretty poor under pressure relative

to the other guys in his class. And while his pressure to sack rate was very low, it's worrisome that he didn't really show all that often. In that Texas game, he did, but like on the rest of the season, basically in his career, he didn't really show the ability to like create out of structure, create when the play breaks down. That's a huge part of what happens in the NFL. So there's massive question marks about how his game translates to the NFL. In addition, to the injury concerns, in addition to the fact that he has a pretty unorthodox throwing style. I think his mechanics aren't necessarily what you look for at the quarterback position. The ball comes out a little bit low at times.

He drifts away from pressure. So I don't know, there's just a lot of question marks that come with his game going into the NFL in addition to the injury thing, in addition to the age thing. Really age shaming here on this podcast. You know, Morgan Freeman didn't get his first role until he was like 40. You know, sometimes it works. That's a good comp. The ironic thing is like I actually like Penning's.

That's a good comp, Morgan Freeman. It's a good comp to Michael Penix. Of the tier three guys, Pennix is D.K.'s favorite. He is my least favorite. This is an unjust system. Yeah. But why is he your least favorite, Ben? I don't think that the risk here in terms of the injury,

and the age and the profile, like I said, like he's not really a guy who gets outside of the pocket. I do not think it's worth the reward. He'll launch a sucker, but I can get a lot of guys who can launch it. And I met what I said. He's got all throws in his quiver and he is accurate. He can throw his guys up with placement.

I will say he is a lot more generally accurate than he is precisely accurate. And what I mean by that is like, he's got a lot more effed Roma Dunes that is down there somewhere than he is like, oh, like my outside receiver, like the corner is upfield shoulder on him side to throw back shoulder. Now he's like throwing relative to coverage,

he just kind of throws relative to Rome. He's relative to, hey, like can you solve this problem for me? and just like, I don't know if he's going to have the super friends when he plays in the league, right? If he told me he's going to San Francisco, like, all right, he's got the receivers where, like, just put the ball on him and they'll make it work for you. When you land in a regular environment, you're not going to have that sort of safety net. And then again, like going to Craig's point, we asked about age. There's so much about context, right, just popping up red flags. I think Jane Daniels supporting cast is a bit of a red flag pop for me.

I think the same thing is true of Michael Pennix is, where he's going to have both of his tackles be drafted, like Troy Fondo will go round one. Rose Garden will probably go like round two, round three. It's a little day two guy. Roman Dunes is going to go top 10, his star receiver. And then Jalen McMillan and Jalen Polk, his other two receivers, we talked about a lot earlier in the podcast,

earlier like a couple months ago, are also going to be like round two, round three guys. I mean, the five most, like his running back is going to get drafted. His tight end's probably going to be a late draft pick. Like he was just NFLers across the board. And his OC is now an NFL OC. Like they, his, the scheme that he was playing in in college was good enough to convince the Seahawks to bring him to the NFL.

And his head coach is another head coach of Alabama. So there's a lot of things working in his favor. The thing I will say about Pennicks that I really like and I'm mostly intrigued by is the way that he seems to always have an answer to pressure. This is why he had such a very low sack rate and a very low pressure to secrate. He always seems to have an answer of where to go with the football when pressure comes. And if you listen to him talk ball and go up on the chalkboard, I think it's really impressive how he sees the whole field. He knows where his outlets are going to be. He usually already knows, like, pre-snap,

kind of, like, where he's going with the football based on, like, the coverages and the leverages and everything like that. Like, I think he's very smart. And that's the benefit of playing for so long in the league. He can kind of just hit his back foot playing rhythm and get the football out. And when pressure does come, he has an answer for it. So I think that's one thing that I'm very intrigued with as he goes to the NFL. But, again, I think overall, like, his landing, he's much more sensitive to landing spot than most of the guys.

speaking to which we got here we got bo necks quarterback at oregon who he's also like just a true super senior COVID super senior three years at Auburn where his dad was also the quarterback transferred to Oregon and then just kind of had like cartoon stats and he's like 45 touchdowns versus three newceptions last year for bow next year and he is this weird thing where it's like on one hand like a all-time single season completion percentage record for bo necks at Oregon but also how many of his passes went more than five yards downfield, like barely half of them. So just really weird juxtaposition for Bo Nix there. So we can flip a coin, Bo Nix. I would like for this coin to be tails. Can I get, can I get a tails? Can I get one? I'm 0 for five. All right. Heads. Reminder,

heads is DKs is pro Nix, tails DKs. Pro Nix. It is tails. Oh, finally. All right. So Bo Nix, number one, experience. 61 starts the all-time college record. This man has played in so many games. It's incredible. I think this goes back to the Brock Perti thing that we've talked about ad nauseum, basically.

Wait, wait, this is tails. D.K. is against Nix. Oh. Is it? Yes. Damn it. Wait, I thought you said you wanted it to be Tails. You want to argue four?

Oh, okay. I can defend a Bo Nix. I'm very confident doing this. I was very confused. I was happy to let him go. Pick up. Pick up where you left off, so lack. My bet.

My fault. I totally misread that. Yeah, yeah. Just Ben, fill in and start right now. As I was saying, Bonix has played every college football game as ever existed. Bonix won the first Heisman. He's been playing college football ever since. They believe it's him on the statue.

Yeah. He beat out Wizard White. Yeah. Heism is actually Bo Nix's nickname. back in the day, and that's why they named the trophy that. Bo's got a great understanding of what he can and can't do. And when I start looking for round two and round three quarterbacks, backups, spot starters, developmental guys, I want a quarterback who's a fundamental understanding of, all right,

if my offense is going to move the ball down the field, this is how we're going to do it. Boenix gets a lot of criticism for, like, throwing the ball behind the line of scrimmage and all the screen stuff. That was kind of just how Oregon's offense was built. There was no two ways around that. but for Bo, like, Bo understood, like, I'm going to, I need to get rid of the ball quickly. I'm not going to be able to make a ton of big throws down the field. If I'm going to go for an explosive play,

it has to be on this read right now. You know, I have to be able to beat the safety to this throw. He did so successfully. Bo knew that, like, as a scrambler, he could break a tackle. He's got some, like, thickness to him, and he's got some movement skills to him. But in general, he's going to want to get the drop on guys. This is a quick decision maker.

He is decisive in his actions. And he is very willing to just get the seven yards necessary to keep the offense on schedule. He is definitely of the tier three quarterbacks the most risk averse by a mile. And again, like with my top drafted guys, I like some risk, give me some big play potential. For my career backups and spot starters,

I'd like to move away from risk. I'd like to move a lot more. So it's like you will move the offense. You will matriculate this ball down the field for me. But I did not like at Auburn. And at Oregon, you saw, I think, two things get a lot better under NICs. The first thing was that decision making that I was talking about.

You saw him just be a lot more risk-averse and make those quicker decisions, those faster decisions. The other thing is I thought that mechanically and accuracy-wise, he is better than he was. He is delivering now, like, very catchable footballs

into tight coverage up against the sideline. He used to, a lot of times, you're really, really scared of coverage at Auburn. You're throwing a deep comeback. The corner's going to be underneath it. He would sail that sucker,

like five yards over the guy's head. He will throw into tight windows with, I think, good placement. He has an understanding of how to win on the tight window throws. You've seen, I think, his throwing motion shorten. It's been better on the run now.

Like, he's, I thought Bonnix his accuracy at Auburn was prohibited. It was prohibitive to his NFL future. I no longer feel that way, having seen multiple seasons of him now at Oregon. He very clearly improved as a passer when he got there and they kind of reimagined what his role was going to be like. This to me is a Gardner

Minchew sort of player. This is a Nick Mullen sort of player. Mullen's obviously like, you know, through 19 interceptions with the Vikings, right? Mollins eats a little bit too much risk. When we talk about that quick movement skill, that quick release, that good accuracy is zero to 10, 10, 10, to 20, and that willingness to just decide right

now what he's going for. I'm throwing a jump ball 50-50 ball. I'm tucking this and stepping up in the pocket and I'm running for six yards. That sort of decisiveness is present in Nixon's film. And so I think Minchu is a good descriptor of like, all right, if he gets a starting spot, get a good receiver, good O.C., like, you start for you a year and it'll be fine. I don't think you want that to be your future, but that's a great guy to have his QB2 on the roster. That's a long career for Bo Nex. Yeah, yeah. Gardner Minchu. This is not I rest my case. Yeah, this is not a first round pick in my opinion. I think, look, the Statistics are pretty astounding.

When you look at, like, his raw numbers from this last year, Boonex's raw numbers, they're absolutely ludicrous. But keep in mind, 22% of his pass attempts were screens. 22%. That was one of the highest rates in the country. Okay, there were 125 passers in college football this last year that attempted 200 passes. 125. He was 122nd in average depth of target.

Don't worry about it, dude. Just five. He was the definition of a game manager. he has some good athletic traits. You know, he can do a little bit in the run game, but in a, like, real offense where he's asked to, like, push the ball down field and succeed on third downs and in high-levered situations, I don't think this is the guy you want under center.

I think he's a facilitator, and that's useful. But, again, I don't see him as, like, a first-round-type talent. And so it's hard to ignore what happened the first couple of years of his career. I think the system in Oregon certainly elevated his numbers and his status. I saw him play at the Senior Bowl. I don't know if he made one memorable play. That's not everything. But to me, this is concerning that people were talking about him as a potential first-round pick.

And so the guy, picturing him as a potential future franchise foundational type player, it's not for me. I can see, like, I actually agree with Ben. We're almost saying the same thing. I think he's a good backup type player, a guy that can come in and facilitate an offense. But I don't think he's an elevator of an offense. what a great way to to bring this all home is that yeah

Bo Nex the case for and against yeah yeah good backup we agree yeah right and it's like the good news is he might be Gardner Minchu the bad news is that he might be Gardner Minchew right and that's like

firstly that's a comment on Bo Nex secondly that's a comment on the Las Vegas writers all right because boy like right now I don't understand what the plan is there but yeah Bo is of again like you're looking for different things when you're talking about pick 66 at quarterback versus pick six at quarterback.

And you can go and take like a huge dice roll at 66. We're about to talk about one in a second. But you have to understand you're just swinging for the fences there. If that doesn't work, you're moving on in a couple years. You're opening up the roster spot. Bo is the sort of guy that you drafts and you think can be in the building for years and might actually win the job. Then year three, might not.

But he's going to go and get like one year $12.5 million when he leaves from somebody. He's going to Jared Stittamett. I think that that's a fair expectation. All right. We'll still like you alluded to it. Spencer Rattler. quarterback South Carolina, nay, Oklahoma.

I'm going to make it a thing. I don't like that. I like Via. Go via. Via? Yeah. It's too generic. I like Ney. Is it Vaya?

I think you could go either way with that. Via via. Yeah. So that one's fine to say both ways. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Yep.

I'll flip a coin on Spencer. I mean, so like recovering Spencer Rattler. Believe this might be a little unfair. So this is the dangerous point for me. Yeah. I try to interpret this coin flip correctly. time too.

All right. Heads means D.K. is pro Rattler. Heads. Oh, I'm pro Rattler. All right. I just started right now and I was like Spencer Robb is the man. Yeah.

So do you like strong arms? Do you like a guy who can just freaking just piss missile down the field? What are some of the other expressions that we've used for very strong arm? P.Rod. Just throwing P. rods down the field. Still likes lips are quivering right now thinking about Spencer Rattling. He has absolutely effortless arm.

strength. It's actually pretty intoxicating to watch because he can just, he like throws like off balance. He's sort of drifting away. And it's just a on a line, like on a deep out. You know what I mean? He has really strong arm. He can make all the throws. I know that's a cliche, but it does matter. This is a guy who I think has been humbled after coming in as a five-star recruit. Like, there was a time going into the season he got benched where people thought he would be the first overall pick in the coming draft. He got. I think he thought that. Yeah. He's. He got benched in that season for Caleb Williams. He ended up transferring to South Carolina,

playing a couple more years and sort of rehabilitating his resume and his career. And I think as a day two guy, this is one of the players I'd be most excited about taking a risk on because of the physical traits that he has. I think he's much smarter with the football these days than he was earlier on in his career. I think he forced a lot of throws early on. He became much more take what the defense gives you type of player. I know that that is not necessarily the best thing that you're looking for,

but this is kind of the similar thing I was talking about with Bo Nix. Like he's a pretty good facilitator of the offense, you know, as long as he's like giving it to his guys, letting them do their thing, but he also has a little bit higher upside because of his physical trace, because of that really strong arm. I think in an offense that lets him kind of cut loose a little bit on play action, things like that, he could really light it up.

So he's the type of guy I would love to take a risk on, develop, and see what happens because he has the physical talent to do that. He's kind of the Kenny Powers of like quarterbacks. Like he started out so hot, super cocky. Yeah. Got completely humbled and is now trying to lift himself back up again. Yeah. Just get him a jet ski.

I could also see him doing the crotch thing. That feels very Spencer Rattler, the crotch break. Yeah, with like the fireworks in the bathroom. Yeah. So like you want to argue against your firstborn son? Well, yeah. So as someone who moved off of Spencer Rattler over a long and drawn out battle with Spencer Ratler, I'll tell you why I moved off.

Rattler, that the, when South Carolina would get into big games, when they would get behind the sticks, when they would get behind in the scoreboard, when they would get a left guard goes down with injury, a star receivers out for a series. Rattler just cannot calibrate, right? Like, there is so much arm talent here. There is so much physical toolkit. And it's great on first and 10. And it's great every so often on like third and eight, but far too often, like, that

Rattler play ends with him saying no to the slant that he was supposed to throw so that he could throw a nine ball that always had a safety on top of it. We're like, yeah, he hit one of his six best throws, then it was going to be completed. But you're rolling very unlikely die at that point, right? You're rolling for 5% outcomes and 10% outcomes and you're doing it over and over and over again. Rather dramatically and consistently hurt the South Carolina Gamecox chance of winning games because he just was unwilling to make regular human throws within structure.

Like, everything is a trick shot for Spencer Rattler. And that's just that style of play is not tenable. Now, while the accuracy on the high difficulty throws without question is like top tier, right? Like there are a few quarterbacks. Like it's him, Drake, May, and Caleb in this class in terms of when they're asked to make high difficulty throws, they do so with like precise placement. Like he's absolutely up there on non-difficulty throws, on middling throws, on regular asks. There are accuracy problems.

And it's weird because like with Drake, there's like footwork issues and mechanics issues. With Rattler, I don't like, it just makes. misses and he just misses too much. Like I said, a bow knicks, you want to be able to matriculate, right? You want to be able to set your watch

to throw in the curl on third and six that gets you to first down, right? And Spencer will just miss that throw for God only knows why. He also, I think,

projects what he's going to do a lot. This is not the sort of player who likes to move safeties, manipulate linebackers, make throwing windows bigger. He'll just bird dog a route and then he'll just assume that he has the arm,

velocity and talent to get away with it. And when he steps on the NFL field, that's going to burn him early, right? Like, he's going to throw pick after pick after picks. He's just taking a safety right to where the ball is going to go. And so, like, listen, will I be watching Spencer Bratt was first preseason game? Absolutely, yes.

I will clear my schedule for it. Like, there's no... I love watching the kid play. He's a hooting and hollering, arm like he wouldn't believe. Hooting and hollering. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be both hooting and hollering. However, is there like a future NFL quarterback here?

It would be an unbelievable recovery in terms of his career arc if that's where we end up with Rattler. And so fun experience, great times, but he's Drew Locke, right? It's just like, yes, you have the game winning drive against the Eagles on Monday night football, but what was the cost, man? Like, it's not for me. That's, I had for my high-end comp, I have Baker Mayfield for my mid-range comp, Drew Locke. So we're in locks up on that.

I think obviously you have to temper your expectations with Spencer Rattler but I think for the day two guys he's the one that is most exciting to me. All right, the last coin flip here today. DJ Burns Center, NC State, potential offensive linemen in the NFL. D.K.?

You want to be four or against? I have absolutely nothing to say about DJ Burns. You haven't watched any DJ Burns, NC State? I haven't watched one minute. minute of March madness since like the 90s. So I can't tell you. I can't tell much about him.

Well, he's taken over. He's taken over the world. I hear a lot about him. Seems good. Yeah. Did you see reports that like NFL teams are actually invested or like are actually curious if he would want to play offensive linemen? I always always say this like when people were like, oh, like I spoke to three NFL GMs.

You have to remember, like if you were an NFL GM and somebody texted you and they were like, you 100% would text back and just be like, dude, move off tackle. You don't mean it. It's not real. you're just saying it because people say things. This dude's about to be 24 years old and he's like never played football. And he's just massive. Well, I will say, we got an email from Mike.

Mike. Mike. Mike. We need to pick a city for DJ Burns where he can like try to like train as an offensive tackle and maybe fill in for a team, but also like he could just hop into one of their NBA teams too and just like try to guard Yokic for the playoffs. I thought that was like pretty good.

Like what if DJ Burns was just like in Miami and he could like join the Miami heat as, you know, guarding Yokic down the stretch, but then also like filling at right tackle for the dolphins. Like I feel like Carolina. There's a starting spot

on the line for him and there's a starting spot on the Hornets roster for Hornets rotation. All right. Get him to Charlotte. He's just like really low stakes Bo Jackson,

just like playing a little bit of basketball and baseball. I do love like, it's, it was awesome to watch NC State crush Dukes, like the mountain and the viper just like

the fun was going to be close down the stretch and that it was like, nope, we're going to win by 12. Yeah. Unfortunately, now, I feel like the national, I mean, this Final Four is pretty weak because it's probably going to be two blowouts, but yeah. Did you see the start that Yukon is one of four teams to win like

three different tournament games by 30 points, but they're not done with the fucking tournament yet? They went on a 30 and O run against Illinois. 30-0 run. Never seen that in my fucking life. That's like actually hard to do even if it's like a really stacked team. It's really really hard. 10 team in the country. It was 23 all, and then it was 53, 23. That'll make you believe in momentum, right, Craig? I know, I'm not.

The other issue is that Illinois talked cash money before the game. Let this be a lesson to all listeners. Never talk cash money at any time. Unless you're sure, in which case, feel free to talk cash money or afterward, in which case, talk cash money. Never beforehand to the top team in the nation,

however. We do not talk cash money to the top team of the nation. 30 straight points? Dude. Because if you don't talk cash money, it goes like 12 and then that's it. But because you talked cash money, it goes to 30. Yeah, wait. What was the deal?

The score was, honestly, it sounds fake. It was 23 all, and then it was 53, 23. Jeez. That's so hard. I believe Illinois scored 14 total points when the Yukon Center, Klingin, was on the floor. they scored 14 points when that guy was playing. Klingin. Yeah, man.

Big fella. I love watching the tournament, dude. I love good big men. They're so fun. Dude, there's been like a renaissance of centers. Like that has been kind of like the entire strategy around all these winning teams. You have DJ Burns. You have Zach Eady for Purdue.

You have Donovan Klingin for Yukon. And even the way Alabama kind of plays is like threes and then you're big men. So it's like college basketball is almost like old. school NBA now. And it's kind of fun to watch. Like, Zach Eadie just tear people up in the pain. It's like the opposite of college football and the NFL. It's like, I love that.

This is the big men are like, oh, so we can have the ball. That's cool. Yeah. Zach Eadie's just torching people. He's 7-4. Super nice touch around the rim. Nobody could stop him. And now it's going to be DJ Burns versus Edy, which I saw some tweet say that this will

be the ultimate battle to find out if girth or length is the true way. So. science will finally know the answer we'll finally know on that note email us at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com we have a mailback coming this week so please please emails ringer fancy football at gmiel.com just in a moose bush for tomorrow we do

did get a lot of input on my friend shout out my friend Jackson who just you know the five wipes no love. You doubted him with he said his name yeah I did harsh I did it right there I was I couldn't get over that

I thought about that like multiple times last week. I thought about just blind wiping an evening previous this past weekend. And it terrified me so much that I couldn't do it. And then I was about to text the group chat. And then I was like, do I really, are we at the point in our relationship where I could like be like, text you something? It's very clearly from the toilet being like, guys, I just pooped. I'd like to share this with you. Oh, you can absolutely text that.

So like the second thing we texted about was our feet. Yeah. But I was sitting there just on the pot being like, man, he had to tell the. fellas about this. What experience this has been. The five wipes and you're done is that man is more of a sociopath than Anton Shiger. We got an email

from this is a fake name, Eric, and he said I'm 40 years old and I didn't realize that was weird until the show. And he says, he says you can tell by the friction of the white, no visual confirmation. Well yeah, that's why I said. You can tell by feel is somewhat a thing.

But you have eyes. You can. No one's there. There's no time limit. But why five? Where did we land on five? Like also like how many times in Eric's life, an hour or two later has he kind of felt like the itchy butt? And he's like, I got to go back. That's the thing. He's like, nope, I live by a code. I only do five lives. That's thing.

If you bat 80% on that, you're still, this is happening to you like every week. I'd like to 100% this. A captain goes down with his ship like a man. One of my roommates back in college had like a longstanding rule that like after some dumps, you just have to take a shower. Like, there's no way around it. It's like, okay, I got a shower now. Like, you know what's tough is when you're like sweaty,

like a post-workout? And you're like, I just need to shower. I'm not going to wipe up after this. It's just a disaster. I know some people, not some people. I have one buddy who I know for a fact showers and then takes a dump. And I'm like, that is. See, that's ass backwards.

Literally. You've done the bathroom incorrectly. You went through the loop the wrong direction. This is like, you're eliminating like the main purpose. Like probably like 75% of the purpose. of a shower. That I wouldn't, okay, I'm going to fight you on the percentages of the pie there.

I'd actually be curious that kind of working this out. 75, like, let's be honest. Shit smell is worse than B.O. Okay. Yes, but, but yeah, normal people don't typically smell like shit

after like a long day at work. You would smell like BO. I would say armpits are probably, if you could only clean one thing in the shower, power rank, draft. Yeah. I'm draft an armpit one. Oh, no.

It's your bottle. Yeah. I have a bidet. It's our business because I have other means by which to get, you know, to handle the butthole. I'm talking to people that don't have a bidet. But how often do you say- Priority number one? How many times have you been with somebody?

This man stinks. How often are you like this guy stinks of B.O? Have you ever had an instance where you're like, this guy smells? No. There is poop coming emanating from his butt right now. No one ever feels that way. Let me expand to just the whole crotchal region. I feel like that's 75% of the reason to take shower.

Well, I think that we're doing two different things here. I feel like Craig is talking about like if you smell and then you're going to go to shower and wash one place and the return and not smell. D.K. is talking about feeling clean. I think. Or just like the point of showering, I feel like. The point of showering is just general cleanliness. Right.

Here's my question. Like, let's be honest. If you can only wash one thing in the shower, DK., tonight, what do you wash it? Yeah. I already said. I already answered. Crotchal region That's the most important thing

You know what The argument I guess is deodorant exists And for the crotchal region not really What are you gonna put down there? That's not gonna work The other thing is like the showers where you don't I need a handheld With the shower head because

It's just the shower cover here Yeah The shower comes let's be real Like it's just it's just the whole process is wild You need to kind of Get all angles Have water shooting from every direction Yeah

You might be enjoying showers a little too much, Hyfitz. This is like the, you're shaking it more than three times you're playing with it. That doesn't sound like it. That's a rule? Yeah. You never heard that? Nope. Like most things that D.K. says, everyone says, I've never heard of it.

That's a, my dad is, that's a classic dad's thing. Do you shake it more than three times you're playing with it? That was the first time for me that I'd heard that was. Oh, wow. Yeah. I don't think I don't think he's doing that for cleanliness. You know what I mean?

Right. Well. Hyvin, you're engaged now. You can't be doing that. Yeah, no, I got to go to your shower.

Thank you, thank you, Craig. Thank you, so like, thank you. You ever, thank you,

everyone. Email us, and you're facing football Gmail. com. We have a mailbag coming this week. Thank you,

everyone. Help on the seats. Thank you. Carlos. Wait, wait, email us your shower power hour, shower power.

Shower power rankings. Oh shit. That's good. Shower power. Your shower and power rankings. Thank you, Carlos, for producing this episode. Yeah. Thank you, Kira.

Thank you, Jack. Thank you, Tucker. Help out in the scenes. Thank you, Connor. Thank you. Yeah, I think everyone emailing. Thank you, Lord. Lord.

Lauren. Oh, man. Trying to think of a shower band. I don't know. Thank you to Smiths. Couldn't come over one. There's the closest thing to a shower band that we can all think of. Land on the Smiths.

It sounds like a band that you'd be like in the shower crying to, you know. Oh, sure. You could have gone, who sings it's raining men? Oh, good question. Let's look that up. Is that a one-handler? Jerry Hallwell? Jerry Hallwell?

Jerry Howell-Haw-Whorner. She's the... Oh, that's Ginger Spice. That's what that is. The Weather Girls? Oh, I think it's the Weather Girls, right? There's probably... There's a million covers.

Is Jerry Hallowell in the Weather Girls? I googled it. It's raining men artists, and the name. that came up with Jerry Hallowell, who apparently is Ginger Spice. Oh, oh, oh, oh. I'm getting different things here. Wow. I can't believe I forgot the name of one of the Spice Girls.

I totally know that. All the Brits that are listening are just irate at this point. Jerry. Just livid. Her name is Geraldine Hallowell. Geraldine. We have a Kate Hallowell at the ringer. Same last name.

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