The Ringer NFL Show - The New RB Mount Rushmore, Early Sleepers, and WWII Carrier Pigeons

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

LIVE SHOW in Los Angeles on July 30: Click below for tickets! The guys fight over the most interesting fantasy running backs going into next season and place them into categories, including the hardest player to rank, post-hype sleepers, and much more (2:16). “You guys want to do some emails?” (52:37). Tickets: https://www.theelrey.com/events/detail/564772 Hardest to Rank (4:42) BONK! (9:53) Sleepers (21:37) Post-Hype Sleepers (34:38) The Ricky Bobby “If You Ain’t First, You’re Last” Guy (42:28) Beta Testing (50:16) Check out our 2024 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens and Jack Sanders Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck. Because every episode of The Rewatchables and the Big Picture, now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer Movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables, as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history, and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving Ringer personalities.

Search Ringer Movies on YouTube and Experience the Joy, Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera. Your Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hyford's. I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig. Horlebeck. We are previewing and probably going to fight about

the most interesting running back to the 20-24 season. And we're recording this a little bit ahead of time, so if anything's changed between now and then, forgive us. And Deke is looking at me

like my intro is weird. My cat's on my lap. And so sometimes I scream I'm afraid if I'm running away. I feel like your intro is really evolved over the last few months and it sounds very different. Well, the cat,

well, I'm getting on. The cat, I never want to scream that I don't want the cat to run away. But, ah, that actually makes some sense. Okay. Okay. Reminders, we have a live show at the L-Rae Theater in Los Angeles. The ringer.com slash events.

You can get tickets. Check the episode description. July 30th, Tuesday. 8.m. 30th. Okay. We're the Hammer, baby. It's a six.

What is it? What's the word? About episode. Residency. Residency. We're the hammer, baby. We're last. We've got to show up.

We got to take these things off their hands. My dad did a residency when he became a doctor. And now I'm going to have done a residency as a podcaster. So pretty much the same thing. Pretty cool. More people come to see you, you know. That joke didn't land. Anyways, my dad's very proud of me.

Craig did his best. Even though I'm not. Craig did surgery on that joke, basically. Just triage. All right. Let's just jump into it then. I want to start with our running backs. back because I feel like for the last few years, I'm not, let's be honest, we kind of just have started.

We hated running backs. Like it was really infuriated to deal with these people. Last year, the whole thing was basically Decaprioing all these old 27 year old running backs. And now I look, and it's like our top 10, we have Christian McCaffrey first. We have Bejohn Robinson and Atlanta out of your second season. We have them top five. We have Breeze Hall for the Jets. Jonathan Taylor for the Colts.

Jamirkebys for the Lions. Karen Williams for the Rams. These guys are all young. They're all exciting. They're all fun. And I just feel like looking back and it feels like for the first time in a really long time, we have like a lot of new blood that's all fun, all fun to watch and just feel at the risk of sounding dumb, bankable by running back standards.

I don't know. Craig, you feel like running backs? Like, do you feel like it gets back in your bones. I do think that last year, I believe it was our take purge or there was some episode last year where we were like, you know what? You know what feels nice taking a first round running back? I'm actually still in on the first round running back. And last year there were a lot of guys who kind of took off.

And, you know, we talk about how running back has a wave, right? It's usually these guys live in the first round for about four years. And we had the Dalvin Cooks and the Austin Eclers and the Derek Henry's and the Alvin Cameras. And now they have all been phased out. And now it's no longer like, oh, there are these fringe 27, 28, 29-year-old running backs that are that you kind of have to debate if you want them in the first round. Now it's like, Jonathan Taylor's 24 years old. Bison Robinson is 22 years old. Breece Hall, 22.

Like, we are now at the beginning of a new stage of this four-year cycle. And I think that's why it feels so exciting right now. I like that. I'm very much all in on getting a running back in the first round. Also, look, wide receivers deeper than it's ever been. And I think teams are running a little bit more right now. So we're in a good spot for running backs. TK, you feel that way too?

You want to just dive into these categories. Yeah, I mean, I think Craig hit on a good point. Like the pendulum has swung a little bit back towards, you know, balance and running the football and smash mouth. and it feels like there's more coaches that are really into that. I would say the one drawback for everything that has just been said is that more and more teams are using committees than ever. There's just fewer running backs that have extreme workloads than ever before. But at the same time, I think they're also being used a little bit more on the passing game, so it evens out a bit.

But yeah, I think there's more running backs right now that I'm confident in than it seems like it's been in the last five years or so. All right, let's just jump into the categories here. Dekas, you were doing your rankings. Who is the hardest player to rank as you were doing your running back rankings? I think Josh Jacobs for the Packers is a difficult one for me because there's two questions who we have to ask and answer when it comes to Jacobs. Number one, which Josh Jacobs will we be getting in 2024? Are we getting the guy from 2022 that looked explosive and made high fits look like a big dummy?

Oh, yeah. Made all three of us look like a big dummy. Or we'll be getting the guy last year who his numbers, when you look deeper into the numbers, like broken tackle rate, elusive rating, all that stuff, is a, efficiency all went down dramatically. And that was partly due to, you know, I think he was banged up for part of the year, the offensive situation. There's a number of variables that went into it.

But number one, which Josh Jacobs is it going to be in 2024? Is he going to be rested up and explosive again? We'll see. And then number two, how much Josh Jacobs will we be getting on this Packers team that has famously and frustratingly rotated heavily at running back during the Lefleur era? basically it's like 6040, 50, 50, as you look back over the last few years with Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon. And so I think the question becomes, like,

has he already hit his peak? Are we drafting him at his peak? Where we're drafting him right now? Or is there some upside hidden in there where they're maybe going to use him like 70% of the time? I'm just kind of worried about this. And then, by the way, they drafted a guy, Marshall & Lloyd in the third round.

And they're already starting to talk him up a little bit at a training camp. And so I'm just kind of worried about what we're going to get from Josh Jacobs. Well, the Packer certainly paid him like he was at his peak. I mean, he signed a four-year, $48 million deal. 22 of it is guaranteed? I think realistically it's like a one-year $14 million contract. I think only the first year is guaranteed if members are. Oh, is it only one year or not two?

Yeah, it's said, no, but it's purposely confusing. It's funny business. It was reported as four years, $48 million. In reality, they gave him a one-year deal for like $13 million. bucks. And then they're like, yeah, if you play well, maybe we won't cut you. So I think that alone is interesting because it seems like it's a four-year deal. But in reality, he's in a contract year, which has got interesting because that was originally what happened to him when he went and led the league in rushing. Because we have him ranked pretty highly. We've got him as his RB11.

You know, I think we're right in line with the consensus on that. But I don't feel confident about it. And if I'm in that zone, I think I might just be looking at other players around him. instead of taking Josh Jacobs at this point in time. Unless we see something or hear something in the meantime, before the season starts where they're like, we want to ride him and barely use the other guys. I think that the difference to me is that, like,

I feel like what the Packers were doing in the past were, you had a, Aaron Jones was like this elite past catch running back who could run between the tackles, but wasn't the hammer. And then AJ Dylan was supposed to come in and be that in between the tackles hammer. Aaron Jones is,

he's just a smaller running back. He's not necessarily going to be that guy, even though, frankly, he was way better on contact than A.G. Dillon was. But Aaron Jones couldn't necessarily hold up to, like, the rigor of the season. And then A.G. Dylan, frankly, just, like, sucks. A.J. Dylan was one of the worst per touch running backs in the entire league last year. I think Josh Jacobs is kind of supposed to fill both of these roles with, like, Marshawn Lloyd eventually being more of like an Aaron Jones-esque figure.

But I think that's a pretty hard role to ask someone to do in year one. I think Josh Jacobs is going to be like both the goal line back for the Packers, but also probably pick up the receiving work. I, there's a world where Josh Jacobs is kind of, like, if he's like 70 or 80% of what Aaron Jones was plus the goal line work, dude, Josh Jacobs could be incredible. Yeah, I mean, the goal line work is a big question mark because I think if you look at Aaron Jones over the last couple of years, like his goal line, his opportunities around the goal line are really hit or miss. I mean, that's why Jamal Williams was such a big part of their offense a couple years ago. And then he had AJ Dylan coming in as the hammer. Well, how are they going to run that this year?

I think that is a huge question. Jacobs is big, so he could just be their goal-like guy. He's in a weird spot just because I think, like, Josh Jacobs is good, but there's nothing particularly flashy about him. He hasn't really, I mean, unless you had him that one year in fantasy, I don't think there's a lot of top. The one year where I said that nobody should take him. Right, so nobody who listens to the show had him that year.

So I feel like we don't have a strong relationship with Josh Jacobs. There's like sexier options on sexier teams. And then there's also like later options that you think could boom. He's kind of right in that middle, boring, You could probably get him for a little cheaper than you should. I mean, he's only 26 years old. So he's like Mike Evans now where it's like he's probably going to rush for 1,200 yards and eight touchdowns. Right.

Do you remember that line? He said he's only 26. I was thinking of the lie to tell naked eight. So like, what do I get my grandma? She's starting 102. And he's like, get her a coffin. Chop shaker's 26. Get him a coffin.

Get him a coffin. Anyway. So Josh Jacobs is hard to rank. I'm pretty, I think he's really good. Next up. You would. You have to at this point. Just say that.

I think honestly, I would just do whatever the opposite of what I say to Josh Jacobs. I've really never got mine. That's fair. Next up, we have six to midnight, which is just, you know, they got bonged. The guys you're really horny for. The guys you're a little probably too excited for entering this season. Craig, who's your, he got to be bonged for? To be honest, every first round running back, I'm pretty much like head over heels over.

but I'm going to give it to Jonathan Taylor, who has had like a very weird start to his career. He's actually heading into, it's crazy. He's 24 years old and he's heading into year five, which is kind of wild. I feel like Anthony Richardson and Jonathan Taylor are like, could be like Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry, but if they were both 22 years old.

Like what the two of them can do with the, I mean, the size and sheer like force that the two of these guys, are going to have at just like running read options with one another. The torque. I think it's going to be the, the torque. It's going to be the hardest run game to defend in the league. And just like watching Jonathan Taylor when he's actually right. Because again, it's like, you know, 2022.

2021, he was incredible. He had 2,100 yards and 20 touchdowns in his second season. Then he hurt his ankle. He had like a high ankle sprained in 2022. That messed up the whole year. And then last year was the holdout. He came back and then he like tore a ligament. The whale died.

The whale died. And he was still the RB8 last year, points per game. Like last year was a mess and he was the RBA8. I think like, I'm sure that the pushback will be as Anthony Richardson going to take touchdowns away from him. But I think it's going to be more of like a Raven situation where every single time Jonathan Taylor touches the ball. There's going to be like three less defenders there that normally would be because they're worried about Anthony Richardson and he's going to go crazy. Yeah, I like that a lot, Craig. That got me really excited.

Yeah, I'm a green tea all day. You guys seen that? Are we supposed to talk you out of this now? I can't remember because now I'm super excited. This is positive. This is yes and. Yeah, yeah. My counter is that it's just the most boring name.

It's like about all the other names you can take. John, John Taylor. Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, Amonrae, St. Brown, Jemir Gibbs. And you're like, you want me to think John Taylor? John Taylor had 2,100 yards and 20 touchdowns in 2021. That is, that was crazy. Dude, you ever just think about how the pandemic is just this total blur? and I don't remember anything from any of those seasons.

Yeah. None of that happens. I actually still can't fathom that there were no fans in the stadium. Like in my head, that didn't happen. The fake crowd noise, what's so sad about it is that Craig came up with like the greatest

content idea of all time, which is that they shouldn't announce the schedule for the whole season. They should announce it. Like when the games end week by week after Sunday at football, they should tell us where everyone's going the next week. And you couldn't do that for like ticket sales, but we should have done that. that for the pandemic week where it's like we didn't know like the games end.

We're like, oh my God, Chief Spills next week. That's crazy. That would have been so cool. That would be so cool. Peter Schreger and Kyle Brandt the second Monday night football ends. And they're like announcing every week. It would be amazing. It would be so incredible and we'll never get to do it again.

That's so sad. Anyway, other other six to midnight bunk guys. Banking Craig for Jonathan Taylor, bonking me for I wish nobody went to games, D.K. I think I'm going to be way too excited about Bruce Hall this year. So last year, similar sort of deal, Craig, of what you were saying, where a lot of things went wrong and he still was incredible. Hall barely, or he played less than 50% of the snaps the first four games of the season. He still finished as the RB7 in half of people.

Almost 15 points a game. And a big part of that is because he was incredible as a pass catcher. From week five on, he had a 17% target rate, which is second only to Chris McCaffrey. He caught 71 passes in that stretch for almost 600 yards before touchdown. So he has elite pass catching upside, and that's what I love about him. I also think with Aaron Rogers in the fold, you know, he's the type of guy that will, like, move guys around the formation, check down, you know, give a guy a chance if he sees a matchup that I really likes. And like, Breeze Hall could maybe be even more involved as a pass catcher this year, even though they're probably going to be winning more games the season than the Jets were last year.

So I think the quarterback upgrade is going to be a big deal, too. So, you know, Brees Hall, maybe it's stupid of me or there's folly here and really going all in on the Jets. I just think he's so, so talented and so explosive and such a good pass catcher that I just want him on all my teams this year. Can I admit something to you guys? And mind you, we're recording this in mid-bay. So maybe the Mavs have been eliminated from the playoffs. But after watching Kairi Irving be truly like astounding in the playoffs to the Dallas Mavericks. I feel like Rogers is so crazy now that I actually think that he'll be really good with the Jets.

I'm kind of back. He's come back around. Now he's transcended to a new plane. It's so crazy. It just might work. Yes. I think that like he's at the point where I'm like, you know what?

If he's reached the level of confidence to say the things that he's saying out loud, I think that's the last step. Yeah. Well, he's more or less unstoppable. Yeah, it's nothing. If he hasn't been stopped by now, I don't know what will. Well, I hope his second Achilles tendon is just as confident as he is, because that's what this all comes down to.

Remember that time he pretended he'd be able to come back for the season? Yeah, I did. It wasn't even a time. It was like eight times. Six months. And then Aaron Rogers kept being like just, he was like the Eric Andremeam of shooting Hannibal Burris to be like, who did this.

He kept being like, I'm going to come back. And then being like, I don't know why everyone's talking about a comeback. Yeah, like I tore my Achilles. I can't come back. It's like I can barely practice. I'm 40. I'm walking around out here. He's like, I'm going to do it, though.

D.K., if you tore your Achilles, do you think you'd miss a pod? No, absolutely not. I respect that. Oh, I would. High Fitz would milk it. Yeah, you could see that. You would do a podcast after you tore your killers? Absolutely.

Bullshit. I'd just be on painkillers. I'd sound like I'd get, I'd have a southern accent like Rogers did that one interview. That would actually be really fun. Inexplicable stubborn drawl for a guy from California. All time. Anyway, next though,

I have, speaking of really old quarterbacks with the killers, tears that were kind of like not supposed to worry about. Dude, Bejohn Robinson for the Falcons. That's kind of my, I'm just putting,

I'm putting all the first round guys, Bejohn Robinson and you, I'm telling you, I don't know what, this is the sexiest group. It's like Charlie's Angels. They're back. Charlie's age.

Right is what the three of them are, dude. Jonathan Taylor, Brise Hall, and Bejohn are Charlie's Angels. And Gibbs. I love Gibbs too. Yeah, you're right. Fuck. Toss in Gibbs too. Is there a fourth?

Did they ever have a force in those movies? Do you know, yeah. Do you know Jackie Flex was named after one of the Charlie's Angels? Oh, really? Who? Which one? Jackie. No, I know.

Which angel? Jackie. Jackie. I don't actually remember. remember their names. One of the names of the Charlie's Angels. The actress, the actress. The Charlie's Angels.

So not the name of the character, but the name of one of the actresses? Yes. Is it Jacqueline? I'm not going to lie. That was really funny. Which one? I think Craig became me. I didn't know which.

It's not even the name of the angel. It's the actress. I mean, you could figure it out. What was the plot of the Charlie's Angels? It was like, it was, it was, uh, lifeguard solving? crimes essentially. It's like Baywatch. Yeah, you just watch it for the plot. Yeah. They were like spies, right? Kind of?

Or they're crime fighters. Undercover cops? They're like private detectives. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Well, let's look. Now I got to find this. Did they have a remack with a rematch, a rematch, a rematch, a remake with Bernie Mac? Yeah, I think

you might have been in it. Hold on. We should keep going. This is like Bill Murray was in it, wasn't he? Yes. It was Bill. Camer Diaz and Drew Barrymore and Lucy Lou. Oh, wow. Yeah, and then they did one with Kristen Stewart and I always got Ella Belinska.

Like they did another one? A remake of the remake. Oh, that's too much. Anyway, I like Bison Robinson a lot. Yeah, yeah. He's kind of like the Jackie Smith of... Yeah. The Jackie Smith, yeah, yeah.

I will say that between... I mean, so Jermaine Gibson Alliance, he was literally just the third best running back in the final 10 weeks of the year. And it's like, he was first run pick. Mijon Robinson first run pick last year. obviously he'll freaking play more but I don't know I mean I just look at these offenses

and God the Falcons offense I feel like Desmond Ritter personally I'm not even kidding like literally turn the like six balls over inside the red zone last year like the amount of just touchdowns that were just thrown away so carelessly the idea of Kirk Cousins if he's healthy

Kirk Cousins's brain alone on this team will just make it so much more competent Bijon playing more I don't know I feel so good about so many like if you're just doing classic snake draft. All these top 10 guys I feel so good about. And if it's like an auction draft or salary cap draft, whatever we're calling out,

like, how good would you feel if you walked away to these four guys? Just like within like three minutes into your draft. Yeah. Yeah. Bejohn is exciting too because now the offensive coordinator in Atlanta is Zach Robinson, who used to be with the Rams for the last two years. And like the, you know, Zach Robinson, McVeigh and the Rams,

they often really like to feature like one guy, which is the opposite of what was going on with Bejohn in Atlanta last year under Arthur Smith. So, yeah, man, I still can't get out of my head that one video of Bijon Robinson that came out in like week two. And I'm like, this is the best running back I've ever seen in my life. Literally, Jemir Gibbs, Briseau, Bajon Robinson and Jonathan Taylor are all the best running backs I've ever seen in my life. Charlie's Angels, baby. It's like, maybe I even like them more than Christian McCaffrey.

How long could Bejohn be like fine until we would still talk about that one video of the overhead of him joking one guy? It's going to be his entire career. Probably. He eventually has to do something other than that, but it was the sickest thing I've ever seen. Does it, does it, does it give you guys even an ounce of pause when I tell you that Christian McCaffrey is 28? Get him a coffin.

Get him a coffin. Does it, does it bother you at all? No. Okay. I keep thinking about that time that the Niners were, maybe just maybe a little. Remember the Niners were up like 30 to nothing on Washington, and they put McCaffrey back in the game to score a touchdown?

because he wanted to keep this. They're fine. I'm not worried about the guy. Calh Shannon doesn't care about his health. It's just, I think in my head I would have said he was turning 27 this year and he's turning 28 in a month. And I was like, oh, 28. Should we ask Christian McCaffrey if he has lower back pain or is into like.

I just feel like everyone's like, Aaron Jones is old. And they're just like naming all these running backs who are like 28, 29. I'm like, Chris McAfri is 28 years old. We talked in the quarterbacks episode about how when you're, there's no 29 year olds. There's only 30 year olds. Like, because should we actually. instead of looking at these guys for signs of decline, instead of looking at efficiency or age,

should we start asking them if they're like looking at mortgage interest rates or like just if they're particularly into like back splash in their kitchen? Like, you know, should we start if they've been thinking about these kinds of decisions? They've been doing a lot of research in the type of silverware that they want. They're very into crown molding now. If Christian McCaffrey wants uniformed silverware and then matching. He doesn't love ball. He's done.

Okay. Sleepers. Craig, give me a sleeper for this year. I'm just going to toss out a name that has kind of been just hanging around like a barnacle for the last three, four years in the NFL. Wow, what a barnacle. Good? Yeah, good comp.

Zach Moss. Remember him? Just always pesky Zach Moss. Just kind of ruining everyone's team. I might want to draft Zach Moss. Now, Zach Moss, for those of you who don't know, is on the Cincinnati. Eddie Bengals. And he's always been the friend in the rom-com.

But now it's time for Zach Moss to let down his hair. Leading man. Wow. He got to do it a little bit on the Colts last year. When Jonathan Taylor was holding out, weeks two to six, Jonathan, Zach Moss was the RB5. Don't you remember that stretch? We were like all freaking out.

Like, is Zach most better than Jonathan Taylor? He was the fifth best running back in fantasy. And this week, I was reading a little bit and listening to the guys at Underdog. And Hayden Winks brought up an interesting point that Zach Moss is basically like one of the best running backs in the league last year out of shotgun. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now he's in Cincinnati, and the Bengals specifically run a ton of shotgun, particularly in the red zone. Joe Burrough is the king of the parking park, though.

Totally. They don't want to hurt Joe Burrow. And Joe Mixon was terrible out of the shotgun. So, and look, even Joe Mixon on the Bengals, even though he was kind of like your standard average running back, still is like put in productive years every single year and is kind of like consistently like a top 20 guy. So I know everybody loves Chase Brown. is like the backup, sexy kind of scatback that they have that everybody likes. But I'm like, look, dude, they willingly traded Joe Mixing and brought in Zach Moss.

And Zach Moss is good. I think once again, just like we talked about with Jonathan Taylor, the guy just has a boring name. On Wikipedia, you know, Zach Moss's real name is Zakeas, Malik Moss? Ooh, I like that. He could either go by, Malik Moss? Malik Moss, third round pick. Dude, Malik Moss or even Zekees Moss, Moss, but Malik Moss, there's a lot of juice there. Key or just Key Moss?

A lot of juice. A lot of juice there. I love Key Moss. That's great. Key Moss. Malik Moss. It is incredible. Okay.

So, all right. Oh, man. Should I tell you, do you want to hear this tangent about, I figured out something about the name thing? Okay. Okay. Sure. There's a visual element to it. I don't know how to communicate it.

Oh, interesting. Okay. Like, the name needs to look sexy? Picture. The combination of the letters? The name has to have more than two syllables. Well, it's not just that. So what I found out is picture like a blob, like picture is shaped like a blob.

And if I told you that the blob was either going to be either going to be named Kiko or like, what was this? It's like a, a boobo. What would you pick? You pick a bobo. You picked a boobo. And that's not exactly it. Because the letters are circles and that reminds you of blobs. Yes.

But also it goes, scientists, researchers think it might go deeper than that in that when you say like Kiko, your mouth, the shapes, you're making your tongue, your mouth, you're making flatter, sharper sounds. And that your brain, it's very obvious to your brain what subconsciously what shapes you need to make. And so that's something like sharp, like you're going to kick, but a boobo, you're like a boobo, like those kind of words, you're making like a circle with your mouth. Yeah, that fully checks out. And so that what's incredible is they test the people. You said a boobo. What's amazing, 90% of people pick a boobo for the circular shapes, every language in the world. It's like uniform across all people in all dialects.

Germanic, like any kind of discipline, like hemisphere, it doesn't matter, which is kind of fucking nuts, isn't it? Anyway. So there is science behind the whole name thing. I don't matter. My point is, I don't know what the connection is, but I do think there's an actual real science that I'm not aware of, but there's some kind of science to the dumbass name conversation we keep having about why a guy like Malik neighbors sounds fucking good at football.

And there's something to it. And I think that there's some kind of arbitrage. where Craig's probably right. Like if John Taylor was named Malik Moss, we'd be like number one pick, but he's named John Taylor, so he's going to be ninth. And I,

there's something, emails or your fantasy football at Gmail if you know what I'm talking about. Because I feel like I have half of it. Jamir Gibbs. Yeah. Sounds cool as hell. Robert Woods just sounds terrible.

Like it just doesn't sound good. Anyway. I like this one though, Craig, because if you look back at last year, Joe Mixon averaged 18 touches again. game. I think if you give Zach Moss that many touches, like he could truly be top five.

Joe Mixon's a terrible name. Yeah, again, also kind of boring. Boring name. Nothing there. Yeah, I'm just like, Zach Moss is like basically going in drafts at like the 30th. He's like the 30th running back coming off the board. And I'm like, dude, Zach Moss might be like the guy on one of the best

offenses in the league. Yeah. My sleeper is just like straight up Isaiah Pacheco. Yeah, I love that, man. He's just a, one of my memento tattoos is take production at face value and don't discriminate based on where these people were drafted in real life. Right. That's a big tattoo.

I like that. Yes. Should have got an editor. Aaron Rogers. Tattoo. I'll tell you all about it someday. It's a lot of symbology. It's like lion with this lion and the Leo star.

See, that's a metaphor right there. With the astrology. It's like, it's really deep. Both played it later, though. Rogers is the type of guy where like you show up to like your freshman dorm. room for the first time and he's like hanging up posters in the wall and it's all astrology and weird shit and like oh fuck

this guy's gonna be a lot he's like what's up dude you mind if I put my crystals here and you're like oh hold on I gotta clean your chakra is that a thing that's something I feel like that does I just make up words you shouldn't sleep on pillows man you should look into that and you're like okay

okay man gotta go to orientation now let's see later anyway yeah I like Pacheco, but... What was I saying? What was I saying? What was I saying?

What was I saying? What was I saying? What was I say? What was I say? Let me fill it in for you. I feel like, so you were saying essentially don't pay attention to where he was drafted. Oh, yeah, right. That is one of said.

Undrafted free agent. Also, don't pay attention to the way in which he runs because that can be a bit of a way he runs. Not for me. Really? Oh, it's so fun. When I watch him run, I'm like, there's no way this guy could be good. I don't know, though, because it's,

It looks like he's trying harder than anyone. He's trying so hard. He's trying so hard. That's what's wrong with that? I love people who try. It's like a quarterback who has to crow hop three times or make a five-year throw. Yeah, he's like the opposite of Devon A-chain who just kind of runs. It's like smooth and fluid.

Like Jemir Gibbs truly explosive accelerator. It's like he's skiing. And then you have Pacheco who looks like, looks like me after trade. Like if someone trained me for six weeks on running form, that's like what I would look like. You know, like, if you're trying to run in, like, a foot of snow, running underwater. Like a dog would they go out, like eight inches, so they're like hot. Oh, my God.

That's, yeah, maybe, maybe that's the thing is way more people could have been in the NFL if they just tried harder. I don't know. But Hyvitz, you're very, you're right in that, like, when, when they drafted Clyde Edwards-Hilair in the first round, for that entire off season, everybody wouldn't shut up about how much Reid loves featuring running backs. They went back to his old days in Philadelphia, Brian Westbrook, all this stuff. It didn't happen with Clyde. And now just quietly over the last like one to two seasons, Isaiah Pacheco kind of just has been the guy,

other than the spurts of Jerich McKinnon. Like, Isaiah Pacheco is what we kind of thought Clyde Edwards-Hillair would be. McKinnon's not even on the team. He'll probably join them in August, but like he's just something you take out out of the garage in January. Clyde is the number two running back. Clyde has been exiled. Like, it's Pacheco has actually,

Loki took on a lot of the receiving work down the stretch. Pacheco's rookie year 2022, he had like less than a target per game. That's three targets per game. That's triple. Like, you know what I mean? That's math. Like that.

Three more. At that right, I don't know. No, but really, he's the receiving back on the Kansas City fucking chiefs. This offense,

they, uh, they add, Xavier worthy, who again, I think it's less about what he's going to do, but more, but he's going to make everyone else's job easier with the speed.

And then Marquis Brown's a real receiver. And I'm looking at this offense with the chiefs. And I'm like, if Pacheco was a first round running back, who just, down the stretch was the guy for the Kansas City offense. I'd be like, we'd be all over this. And he's not, I don't know.

I mean, Pacheco, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, I can't believe that this is going to be a thing. We have him 34th, but yeah, exactly.

And so Pacheco, do you guys know who the all-time leading Russia is for the Kansas City chiefs in the playoffs? Jamal Charles? I don't know. Priest Holmes. Patrick Mahomes. No.

But then Pacheco is second. Oh, wow. He's been to the NFL for two. seasons. He's the all time leading running back in rushing guards against city chiefs. Wow. So yeah, I just, I just look at Pacheco and I'm like, what an incredible, like, if there's a guy that should be, basically that first tier we were just talking about of like that Charlie's Angels plus John Taylor, like John Taylor, Bisonin-Robinson, Breeshall, Jamir Gibbs, that was so excited to have. If someone's

going to join that group, it's probably like Kairn Williams, who did it, but is right there. we're like, Isaiah Pacheco is so easy to see joining that group. And we just don't believe it because unlike Bjean or Gibbs, he wasn't a first run pick. And John Taylor and Brees Hall were like really high second round picks. The only difference with Pacheco is he kind of runs really stupid. It went in the seventh round.

Anyway. Yeah. I actually like this a lot, though. He thinks this is spot on. He doesn't have a lot of competition attached to a great offense, attached to a great quarterback. The other guys are Keontay Ingram. and who's

and Michael Pryne. Louis Rees Zamet? The Welsh rugby player? He's going to be the kick-up. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. They have kickoff. Cadarius still there.

Maybe they'll turn him to running back. D.K., who's your sleeper? I'm going to go with Gus Edwards, Gus Bus, who is now going to be running Baltimore West for the Chargers under Gregoroman. This is a Greg Roman offense that's led by Justin Herbert. I feel like that's going to give the team overall. a lot of opportunities in the deep red zone.

And I would not be surprised whatsoever if, like, at this time in December, we're talking about Gus Bus as like a Jamal Williams Rahim Moster type player, where just scoring ludicrous amounts of touchdowns. Not necessarily like a ton of yards, but just a touchdown or two every game. Just because I think this is going to be a good offense, and they're going to give him a lot of scoring opportunities, and he's going to be their goal line back, most likely. I guess Jacob Dobbins, if he's healthy, does pose a threat.

but man, that just feels like a tall order for J.K. Dobbins, who's been injured every single year. So I'm going with Gus Bus here. The lead guy, the only competition he has is J.K. Dobbins, who has yet to stay healthy. And then Kamani Vidal, who was a six-round pick. So get him in there. Gus Edwards had 12 touchdowns in his final 11 weeks. Yeah. Which is so funny.

You guys know how much guaranteed money J.K. Dobbins is making on the chargers? Like 50K. Oh, I heard it. It was like really, really ridiculously low. Yeah. Hives. It's right. $50,000.

$50,000? I think it's a little bit of a misnomer because it's like if he, they could cut him, I think is what that means. If he makes the team, though, I believe his salary just becomes guaranteed.

I could be wrong about that. Right. But if he doesn't make the team, then yeah, Gus Edwards would be. But they're also just signs and the most. We're at the point in the, this is so early on in the off season

that like I like everybody. Like every name that anyone brings up, I'm like, yeah, Gus Edwards, I totally see it. Yeah, our position. I'm like, this is really deep,

a lot of good players. Like, everyone seems great. This is like a dangerous correlate. Like for me to connect these two is obviously probably really stupid. But like how many rushing touchdowns did Blake Corum have for Jim Harbaugh last year? It was like 27 or something ridiculous. Yeah, disgusting. Like obviously this is not the Michigan football team and this is the NFL, not college football.

But I don't know. Stylistically, I feel like Harbaugh is going to want to recreate exactly what he was doing in Michigan. And that just means just smash mouth football. Wait, I have to look this up. Ian Harditz has this great bit about all time. So if you look at the all-time list Oh, no, did it change? I think it did. That's too bad.

Oh, yes. I know what you're talking about. Yards for Carrie. This is this great bit that the all-time list for like career yards per carry, they always cut it off at a certain amount of carries. They wanted to come off as like what. It's like Jamal Charles and Barry Sanders, but they have to cut it off because Gus Edwards is like right up there,

but they don't want to show them on the telecast. They don't really make the stat look really dumb. So they always cut it. it off as like whatever is like right under like we'll exclude Gus Edwards but he's one carry more than Gus Edwards has every single season exactly all right next up here post type sleepers Craig you got a post type sleeper for us yeah I kind of might be back in on remandre stevenson this year yeah was really good two years ago he was a top 15 guy he caught 70 balls and last year the paths were just a massive disaster he was the RB 30 the offense was terrible

basically in every way possible. And now, although, look, it's not like I don't, I don't think this offense is going to be anything special. But even if it can be average, I think that could do a lot for Ramandre, who I still think it's really good. You know, even with Jacoby Brissette and Drake May compared to Mack Jones and Bailey Zappy,

like that is a massive upgrade. They're at least going to have some more weapons offensively with the two rookie wide receivers they drafted. And there's not like a ton of competition. I mean, they brought in Antonio Gibson. But other than that, like, Ramondre is just still kind of the guy, the new offensive coordinator in New England

is Alex Finn Pelt, who spent the last four years in Cleveland, who was like one of the most run-heavy teams in the league for all of the four years he was there. And they basically, the only time they kind of got away from running was last year when Chubb got hurt and Flacko came in and they started to airing the ball out, which is an insane sentence. But, and it worked.

Yeah, look, Ramondre, the final year of the rookie deal, which I also love. He's only 26 years old. Good call. I don't know. Look, I don't think he's going to be like a top 10 guy, but 26. Do I think he could be top, do I think he could be like 15?

Yeah. Hyvitz, don't even say it. Don't get him a coffin. 26. Oh, no, he's 26. I like, I was, I've been shocked with how low Ramadre Stevenson has been ranked, both in redraft and in Dynasty.

Like, you can get, he's like a throw-in at this point in, in trades in Dynasty. I think it's kind of bizarre because I agree, Craig. I think he's a really good player. I think he can play on all three downs. He's a good pass catcher. And like you said, this is a team that's going to want to run the heck out of the ball early on. I think Antaerio Gibson, he's the type of running back.

I feel like that does not do well to ingratiate himself to the coaching staff. He's the Kham Hunt. If this is the Brown's offense, he's like the Kareem Hunt. Yeah, not as good. Kram Hunt was actually really good. And also Kareem Hunt or Nick Chubb was not a pass catcher. Rahim or Ramadashivson is. He caught 70 balls two years ago.

Yeah. So I don't know. I really like Ramadri. I think, you know, talent-wise, I think he's up there among running backs in the league in just terms of like breaky tackles, really, really light feet for how big he is. And he's very versatile. But the question, of course, is just like, you know, is this team going to score a lot of points? Probably not.

And so that's not going to, he doesn't have quite the ceiling of other guys, but I still really like his floor. I think he's like a sneaky, solid RB2. Yeah. I think that's good. I love talking about sneaky, solid RB2s in May. You know, it gets it going. DK.K. Got a post-up sleeper?

I'm going with Aaron Jones for the Vikings. Have we? I feel like no one is talking about the fact that Aaron Jones is now on the Vikings. It's because it's May. As Craig just said. Is he on the Vikings? When I said that I felt like I was wrong,

because that's like we just are not talking about him whatsoever. There's been too much interdivisional swapping. Yeah. It's incestuous. Dude, the NFC North is very, very insetuous. Like, DeAndre Swift was drafted

by the Lions, is now on the Bears. Aaron Jones went from the Packers to the Vikings. Like, there's just, like, David Montgomery was on the Bears and now he's on the Lions.

Like, they just are all, they're like the Yankees, man. They're just swapping. It's like a key party in the NFC North. They just,

I don't know what they got going on. Sequin to the Eagles, yeah. Yeah, it's just like, it's like not first cousins, but it feels like like everyone's got the second cousin thing going.

I don't know. It's just, it feels wrong. The. Second cousin. Calvin Ridley. As they call it. Calvin Ridley, now the Titans, it's just like, what are we doing here?

Did you guys know Eleanor Roosevelt was FDR's cousin? Excuse me? I did not know that. Oh, they were cousins. I feel like it was pretty common back then. Google it. When did it become socially a faux pot to start marrying your cousin? Dude, that's a great question.

It was very common in the 1800s. It was. And the 1900. Dude, that's a really good question. Because it certainly wasn't always a big deal. Oh, you, they didn't have that many people. Google it, Hyphitz. Well, let me figure it.

Eleanor's their cousins, FTR. Yeah. I'm not defending it. However, they were fifth cousins once removed. Oh, come on. That's nothing. That's like any small town. Aren't we all?

We're all fifth cousins. I can see like the rigor-faced football show out of context thing. It's just being like, we're all fifth cousins. Oh, my God. Anyway, so back to Aaron Jones. Yeah, Aaron Jones. It's like kissing cousins. So I feel like he's flying under the writer.

As I said, he signed a one year $7 million deal. He fizzled a little bit based on, I think, the hype around him last year. He was injured for six or seven games. And he only averaged 11 points and half PBR. So certainly a bit of a disappointment. But a big part of that was Packers really used a heavy, heavy rotation. It was near 50-50 split in terms of snaps. He only got 40% of the goal to go.

go situations inside the five-yard line opportunity, so it wasn't getting a ton of the, you know, touchdown scoring opportunities for that team. I could see that change this year. I could see him be like the guy in Minnesota. Tai Chandler is the backup ostensibly. He'll rotate in, I'm sure, but I feel like they're going to lean a little bit more heavily on Jones than the Packers did last year. Kenne in Wangwu, I'm sorry, that name is difficult to pronounce.

Dwayne McBride, Miles Gaskin, or the other ringbacker. the team. And Wongwood is basically like one of the better kick returners in the league. He's not a functional running back guy. Miles Gaskin and says DK would say a jag. He's just a guy. And then Dwayne McBride is what? He's massive.

Dwayne McBride was a guy that had a little bit of hype last year, but that he, I believe, went undrafted and was on the practice squad all last year. So, or he was a sixth or seventh rounder, if that. Aaron Jones, I think, is only got a $7 million one-year deal because he's a smaller guy and there's bias against smaller running backs that they've. might get hurt and then Aaron Jones been hurt. So I think the teams are hesitant to give a smaller back who's already hurt a lot of money, which is why Austin fucking Echler gets, what, $6 million in a one you deal to go to the commanders

after being Ecclure. It's like, once you get hurt and you're little, they just like are looking for reason and not pay you anything anyway. But dude, I know I'm wrong, but I'm such a sucker for Aaron Jones. Like I know that I'm probably incorrect. It's a bad bet to make, just get him a coffin. But I, Aaron Jones. He'll be 30 in December.

He's one of my favorite running backs to watch. And like he's probably a terrible investment. But like I don't want to be like I'm obsessed there in Jones, but I just love his balance. I love his contact balance. And I love how even though he's smaller, I was always obsessed with the fact that he was, AJ Dylan was supposed to be the hammer.

And he just is such like better running back at getting short yarder situations than bigger guys. Like he just is, I don't know. He has a great sense of space. He's slippery. But also he's never healthy. And he's get him a cough. I feel like when he's healthy, though.

He's going to get you big numbers. He's those guys who like week by week will be ranked higher than we'll have him in our draft rankings because like if he's healthy in week four, he will probably be like our RB12. But you get a name for that. It's kind of like guys that you invite to a party that like they probably might not come

because they got stuff going on. But then when you show up, you're like, yeah, but then you don't know. I don't know. I don't think that worked at all. I don't know. I get where you're going. I didn't follow that one. That's all right. It's late. Ricky Bobby first or last guy

someone will finish like actually on this note someone who will have like way higher finish of where we rank them or way lower than where we rank them but we have to kind of middle it but that the middle is definitely wrong so I'm for this I have Devani Chen

for the Miami Dolphins I mean last for me fantasy football dot the ringer.com we have them I mean we have kind of high we have him 24th is an 11th running back because I'm Craig and I are kind of like fully Devon H in pill.

And I just look at him. The way I keep thinking about, look, obviously he's smaller. He could just get 10, 11 touches game, his entire career. Doesn't necessarily need to be doing anything high volume. The flip side is, if he were to just get the job

and Rahim Moster got hurt and Devon Aichin just somehow got 18 touches a game. Like, there's no ceiling? He could be the Army one. And I keep wondering about this. And I know I asked you as a month ago, I don't care. D.K.,

How high could someone take Devon A. Chan in a draft? And you'd be like, that's a reach. Yeah, first round. Sixth? Yeah, I would say, if you took him second, I'd probably be like, whoa. Obviously. I'm just thinking through it, honestly, like, what would be my reaction? If you took him sixth, I'd be like, can I get that? Because I keep thinking about how it's bold, it's bold, but I get it.

I can't think about how your dumb friend who like just kind of like glazes. the headlines or whatever is the one who he averaged 19 points a game, I'm taking this guy. And your friend's like, isn't that the guy who had like 200 yards, two weeks in a row, getting him in the second round? Yeah, but he got hurt a bunch and he actually didn't even play that. And they're like, before you, they like drafted it before you even finish saying anything. And then they just win.

Yeah. So I, A.C. It's the guy where I'm like, yeah, just kind of want to just take him and ride the ride. See what happens. Yeah, I think you need to make a decision. I think all of us need to decide between Rahim Moster and Devon Aachen by the end of but by like August 1st, we need to decide. You know,

you're mostly the oldest running back in the NFL. I think I'm fully just like, they're not next to each other in my book anymore. Like I am picking A-chan well ahead of Mostard. I just need people who are like in, like, like basically for, like, Moster's 32. That's like 45 in human years.

It's like mid-lip prices. You know what running backs are? They're like cavemen where it's like, how old were, how long did cavemen live? 17 years. I don't know. Like they died around like 30. 30.

I don't know. Yeah, that's the thing. If Rahimoster were a caveman, he'd be like, he's basically an elder. You know, he's about to become an ancestor, basically. Right. You know what I get it. Yeah, yeah. He's old.

He's old. I think what I'm trying to say is like running backs age. I think what I'm trying to say is he's so much older. Like we just were joking that 26 year olds are old. Like 32. I don't think there is a 31 year old running back. Like, it's like Rahim. And then like Derek Henry at 30.

Like he's so much older than the other running backs playing is what I'm trying to say. Too old. What is going to make you feel more like an idiot? If you draft Rahim Mostert and he ends up being the backup and gets hurt and Devon Achan goes nuts and you're like, wow, the 23-year-old bullet who already set records last year turns out to be really good again. Or if you actually draft Devon A-chan and Rahim Moster somehow once again turns back the clock and has 18 touchdowns.

Like, I would feel way more stupid drafting the 32 year old than the 22. Yeah. If Rahim Oster's healthy again, I'm like happy and like my worldview is like more positive. And I'm like, you know what? That's so cool that like old people who seem to be good dudes can just continue to thrive in old age. That's awesome. If I take the old guy because I'm like hopefully naive and optimistic and then the world

turns out to be a cynical, awful place, I'll be distraught. Like if I just take Mostert, I'm like, it'll be fine. And it's not that I'm, I'll never play this. game again. What if we just all take Jalen Wright instead? You know what this? Now we're talking. Now we're cooking with gas.

The Dolphins backfield. Get ahead of it. It's the Falcons quarterback room where the answer is Pennix and Kirk Cousins will both get hurt and Taylor Heineckee will play. The Dolphins backfield is like it's going to be Jeff Wilson and Jailen Wright. This is like a, you know the meme of like the guy in church holding a gun to behind one guy's head and there's a third guy on the balcony holding the gun? That's Jaylen right.

the practice. That's good. I think Rahim Moster and Devon Aitchin, I think this is the first, don't go home to your wife duo. This is like the... You're ready to risk it all. This is like the soulway.

Go get drinks. It's a work meeting. Don't go home to your wife, Devon Aitchan. One drink. Oh, my God. Is one drink going to hurt? We're talking business. All right, Dick, do you have a quick,

Ricky Bobby? I didn't know it was a nightclub. They said they serve food. Oh, man. My guy is like the opposite end of like the sexy factor here. I'm going with Zemir White for the Raiders, who into four weeks he started last year, weeks 15 through 18,

he played 70% of the SNAPS, you averaged 14 points in half of y'ar, 23 touches per game, which was fourth most among all running backs. So like Antonio Pierce was like very recently coaching high school. Yeah. And the competition they added for him this year is Alexander Madison and a sixth round pass catching running back in Dylan Lauvey.

So depending on how you feel about Alexander Madison, I know how I feel. I feel like Zamir White is going to get a ton. He's going to get like 250 carries. And he could absolutely go so much, he could end up being so much better in fantasy than we all think. However, I think people are just like worried he's going to get hurt or something or, you know, just get worn out.

But I think you just don't, low-key Zemir, despite being a good name, Samir White somehow doesn't hit. And also I think it's just no one knows anything about Samir White the person. No one knows what he runs. Like it just,

he doesn't have like an imprint. He's not imprinted in your cerebellum and right. He doesn't have like a signature play. No, it's very boring. But like I think I could totally agree with you.

I think he would like he earned Antonio Pierce's trust. I think the Raiders are an old school operation. And I think that he will be there starting running back like like like lot like and he was. And honestly like he looked pretty good. I wouldn't say he was like electric or anything like that. But he looked really. He looked solid last year.

Solid is a good. I think they trust him and they respect him, like the work ethic. He's like the Zach Moss. To me, him and Zach Moss are similar in a lot of ways. Yeah. Or even like a Rashad White, maybe not in skill set, but in terms of like your opinion of them where it's like he's just there. He's not like the best option, but he's there.

He's going to get touches. Yeah. And then he ends up being pretty good. Yeah, he's like that guy last call. Yeah. It's just. The lights come on. You're here.

Guess I'm going home to use. He's the last guy in the draft who's going to be like a full-time starter. Yeah, exactly. It's like, the meme with the Billy Bean. You're like, what's the problem? It's like, no one knows anything about him. Yeah, if you want to go zero B, just get Rashad White and Zemir White. There you go.

Typhitz. Hyphitz is just laughing. What do you say? Get the white running backs. McAfree, Zamir, and Rashad. Okay, that's pretty good. I'm like crying. It's like the best in the league and the two worst.

Oh my God. All right. Moving on. Beta testing. These are the guys you hate but have to rink, which is it's the opposite of Ricky Bobby. It's guys you take because you're afraid of coming last. They're flaccid.

They're low tea. As they'd say, and so is sunny. The soy boy beta cook picks. But it's for me, dude, Tony Pollard, other Titans, I just don't want to. I don't want to do it. I don't want to deal with it.

You can't make me. You can't make me do it. And like, you know what? You probably should take Tony Pollard because you know what? It's probably like a classic post type sleeper. Like Tony Paul,

like they have a better offensive line coach in Tennessee because Brian Kaly on hand, hired his dad. Shout out Nippo Dads. And like Tony Pollard's probably healthy now with the broken leg. It probably checks all the boxes we always talk about. But like,

got the guy the year after the injury, not the year after the year after after after the year. Fuck it. I don't care. I don't want this guy. I don't want Tony Pollard. I'm done. I'm mostly scarred.

That was amazing. Craig and I were both like, oh, God. You're tweaked out there the year after the year after the after. Record scratch. I don't know. That's also the kid areas, Tony. This is the year after, the year after the year after the year after. Oh, man.

Yeah. So. I like the idea of just a new category if you can't make me. You can't make me. You can't make me. You can't make me take them. It's like the meme of the guy holding the woman's eyes open. I'm not going to lock.

Not take it tolly Pollard. Craig, you got to make me, can't make me. You can't make me draft Najee Harris. I won't do it. I won't. I don't care if you tell me, Arthur Smith, the line. I'm not doing it. I'm going to get the tattoo.

I need the tattoo of like, don't draft running backs whose backup is just legitimately better than them. And that honestly might be. Ajay Spears in Tennessee with Tony Pollard. And it's definitely the case with Jalen Warren and Najee Harris. Also a classic seventh round, first round. Yeah. Like if they were flipped, no one would, no one would really be interested in Najee Harris.

If he had been seven. No. They declined his fifth year option, like this guy's toast. His name was John Harris. There's something to it. If his name was John Harris, he wouldn't have been fucking drafted. John Harris, I'm not drafting in the first 12 round. John Harris would never have been fucking drafted.

First round running back out of Alabama. Bart Harris. John Harris would just be like this is like Bo Scarborough all over again. Yeah. Oh my God. All right. Let's do some emails.

Emails. And also go to fancy football. Dotterrear.com for a full top 200 there. And also again, shout out. The ringer.com slash events. Live show, baby. Check it out. All right, D.K.

We got some tell us about the war grandpa emails. We got one from Harrison. Harrison. Harry. We had talked. Yeah, Harry. I don't know why that felt weird. We had a Harrison last show.

Same guy? Probably. Double dipping? I like to think it is. There's only one Harrison, right? Just the one. Every year, only one Harrison, you can a lot. That'd be cool, actually.

If there was a name draft and all babies. And all the parents, you have to pick from a pool. Something there, Craig. Let's think about that. Let's noodle on that. Yeah, that's good. We're going to have to get power. We were talking about how you make plans.

We need to attain power. You have to work on ascending to a really high position. Our ascension. All right. Continue. I were talking about how you made plans before the internet. Harrison says it's easy. Before the internet, we did not flake on each other.

If you were going to meet up with someone somewhere at a certain time, you made sure to make it there on time, not having the crutch of mobile internet ensured that plans are capped. Is this true? That's all well and good. What happens when you get an offender bender? Like, then what? You wait.

No, but I do think there's that point. It's a revolution in like, there's been a revolution in mobile along with like, it's a revolution in canceling plans. Well, there was like a, there was a thing when I was growing up or it was like, if you get lost from your parents, you stay put, we'll come find you.

You know what I mean? Because you don't want two people wandering around looking for each other. I feel like, do you need to teach that to kids anymore? they all got freaking trackers. They have computer checks in their necks. I have the air, I have like a whatever they're called the air tracker thing. What are they called?

Air tag. Air tag. Sorry, I called them AirPods like three seconds ago. Yeah, the air tag. Just stick the air tag in their bag, stick it in his pocket.

You're good to go. You can always keep track of them. I got one of those on my dog. You got an air tag in your dog? Oh, on his, on his color, yeah.

Not in my dog. Although actually, that's a lie he is chipped. A good idea. Yeah. He's also chipped. Hyvitz, I don't think people cancel on each other more because of technology. I think people cancel on each other more because we don't want to.

I think it's because we don't want to leave our homes because we're isolated people now. Well, Grandpa, tell us about before the war, grandpa. Tell us about the war. Dude, you had to leave your home if you wanted to do anything in life. Now you have online communities where you don't have to leave the comfort of your own chair. Yes, in that regard, I'm saying yes. But I'm not saying technology doesn't make it easier for you to kill. cancel on somebody is my argument. Similarly, Grandpa, what did you think? Literally. But there's less

there's more reasons not to go out. There's less pressure to cancel now. Because like if you're making plans via text or whatever, it's like, oh, actually, I'm not going to end up going. But then if they're already there waiting for you and they don't have any way of contacting you and they don't know where you are, they don't know if you're alive or dead, I feel like that adds like an element of pressure where you have to show up or else they're going to be waiting there until midnight. That's a very good point. I do think it's hard now though. It's hard to cancel on people now. Because if you're lying, you pretty much have to go off the grid. They know where you are. That you're missing. To take the battery out of your phone and smash it. If you're like secretly

hanging out with one friend over the weekend, you don't want something. I mean, like, that is an impossible task nowadays. Back in the day, like, you can do it every you want. It's true. I think that the way I'd put it, and if we there are like, I'm sure that we have like different demographics of like age people listening. I would say to older people, older generations, our generation, the younger generation, we are softer, for sure. But also, I would argue the older generations, you never had to be accountable for, like, anything, like, truth. Like, we have to, like, to Craig's point,

it's so much harder to lie now. Like, you can't get away with anything. Is that true? Has the- You can't get away with anything. Does the truth mean more now? I feel like the truth doesn't fucking matter at all now. I think he just means in terms of, like, being held accountable to, like,

people in your life. Yeah. I get that. I'm talking about, like, You guys were Don Drapering, just like leaving new lives. In politics, it's the post-truth era. Yeah, nothing does matter. In 1984,

you could just walk out the door and never return and nobody knew where the fuck he went. Yeah, that's right. Dad went to get a pack of Sigs. Yeah. And he just never came back. Huh, it's weird. I see him on the fucking air tag.

You know what I mean? If I went to the store and I didn't come back for an hour, like, Liz would know where I was immediately. But she would have like eight different ways of finding out where I was. She tracks the phone. Like when I was getting, when I was going to propose to Jackie, one of the challenges I had was that she fucking tracks my phone everywhere I go. Dude, every time I would go downtown to L.A. to talk to a jeweler about a ring, I had to like concoct this lie of why I'm going to downtown in the middle of the day. And I had to flip my phone in airplane mode.

And she'd be like, why can't I see your location? And I had to make up a lie about it. It's impossible. Can I tell a story? This is great. Can I tell, all right. When I was going to go pick up the stone. I went to it.

There was this place in Georgetown in D.C. I was getting it from. And I knew that Jackie would might, there was a chance that she might like see that I was like, because you can zoom in on that shit. And she was going to see I was in a jewelry store. So I had to, I figured out there's a coffee shop nearby

and I invented a coffee meeting that was fake to be near it. And shout out, we have never met Denny Carter, who works at NBC, does fantasy football. But he lives in D.C. And we've been trying to, meet up for like six months, but he has kids

and I have a cat and I don't know, I probably should go close to him. I do not. One of those two things. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. The cat is like a week and it'll be a lot. It'll be fine. Famously the easiest animal to take care of. We had to go to the vet so I had to cancel a little bit. The point being

I literally told Jack, she was like, oh, I'm getting coffee with this guy. She's like, oh, he'd be getting coffee with. I was like, oh, uh, uh, uh, Daddy Carter. I just made up. But like, that's how I had to get my rank because she could track. Everywhere I fucking go, I had to come up with some random, like, a person that just lives in D.C.

That was like threaded the needle. If she could look it up if she had to, but I bet that she probably wouldn't ask me what we talked about. And I'm like, you didn't have to do that shit because you wouldn't be tracked in your whereabouts. Dude, I went to the, I told her I was going to the driving range. And then I literally went to the driving range for an hour just so if she were to look, I would be able to see that.

And then I went downtown. I even debated trying to get a friend. to come with me so I could leave my phone with them at the driving range. Oh, my God. Email us to ringer fantasy football at Gmail.com. If you have stories about your spouse like tracking where you go, I mean, hopefully no one's trying to cheat. But like that's, we can't even buy them nice things.

You can't even surprise your partner. They can know everywhere that you're doing. Cheating these days sounds like a lot of work. It does sound really hard. It's not worth it. My God. Everybody's joking about Andrew Huberman. It came out.

He had like seven girlfriends. And people were just like, dude, that's so much work. He is optimized. He's so optimized. I can't believe that. Juice is not one to squeeze there, my phone. You see that video going around of him being of someone talking. I'm like, yeah, I mean, it was like this conversation.

And there was like, imagine like trying to juggle five different partners these days without them knowing. Like, that'd be so hard. He's like, yeah, I mean, unless you had five phones, right? Everyone was like, what? What? Dude, you know what? What else is, I think, the interesting thing is these days is now if you do not have a strong online press, that's like a red flag.

They're like, dude, yeah. I looked him up. No Facebook, no Instagram, no Twitter. What's up with this psycho? Serial killer.

Who is he hiding from? It's actually a really interesting point. Do you think, if you were meeting somebody, let's say you were single, and you met somebody, and they were like, I don't have social media,

I've never had social media. I'm not online. Would that be a red flag? If it's a woman, that's cool. If it's a woman meeting a guy, you do not go on a date. That's a huge. Yeah, a woman,

stay away from him. Do not go on. If you're a guy and you're meeting a woman on a date, and I don't know how you've met this woman who's not on the internet on Hinge or whatever, but if you happen, like, oh, that's so cool and charming. Tell me about your offline lifestyle. Like, I would never let a female friend of mine go on a date with a guy that had no online presence. That'd be terrified.

Like, what do you do on planes? Nothing. Just stare straight at like putting on Seinfeld. Dude, it is, it is true, though. Just the back in the day before the internet, like, you could just disappear. so much easier. You could just like do whatever the fuck you wanted.

I'm looking back on it wistfully. Don Draper, try escaping. Yeah, try your new life in 2024. All right. Also, that was great. Good, good stuff there. Tell us about the war grandpa.

Another, another email here. This is very important. It's crucial. This is from Alexander. Alex. This is a huge update on carrier pigeons. Oh, see, there you go. Alex is for Xander.

That's such a good brand. That's a, what an incredible difference. Who needs to help? Yeah. Wow. Is Xander Schoffley's name Alexander? It is. Wow.

Whoa. Dude, good job by Schofley. Important update on carrier pigeons. This is incredible. We talked about carrier pigeons like a, like a month ago. Are they carrier pigeons, homing pigeons? There's multiple different names. Depends what they're carrying.

Oh, homing pigeons. Is it because they're going home? Whoa. Well, homing is a term. But did it come from the pigeons? Probably. Wow. Oh, homing pigeons because they're going home.

We figured it out. We figured it out. We were the first people that figured that out. The homing device, right? Like a missile? Yeah, but the pigeons came first. So they probably named it after the pigeons. How do you know the pigeons came first?

How do I know the pigeons came before missiles? I mean. Well, okay, missiles. I have made you guys so much stupider. You guys were so much smarter before you met me. I mean, look, dude, sharks, predated trees. We don't know. Yeah. That's still

the best fact we've ever... The best things we've ever given out of the show are that new parents to get your kids stop crying, play Misty Mountains, and then two, his sharks are older than trees. And also that a cloud weighs a billion pounds. You guys, how much a cloud weigh four pounds? It's like a million.

It's like a billion pounds. You guys, you know why? The best part is if you go back and relisted, what do you said three? And the other is like, I'm going to price this rate you. I'm going to do like five. And it was like a billion. It makes no sense. A kilometer long cloud. Anyway, I don't get it. Pigeons from Mount Zander. I don't think it was

it didn't start with pigeons though, I think was my point. Like, pigeons are the first animal to do homing. What was then? Okay, so I just looked up homing on Wikipedia. Obviously, salmon have a very strong homing

ability to return to the river that they were born in. Okay. Yeah, but we didn't train them to do that. Sea turtles are good at it. I imagine a lot of animals are good at going back home. Yeah, that was my point. We're talking about that.

That was my point. Yeah, pigeons didn't invent going home. We're saying we invented taking pigeons from their home and using them for our using that to our advantage. I want to use a salmon to do this. That's actually kind of sick, although I feel like there's limited places. The message would dissolve. No, did you see that dolphin or that whale that was trained by the Russians?

like they had a beluga whale with a camera on it. Polugas are smart as fun. Yeah, they're using those. Then you got to catch the salmon just to read the message when it reaches its destination. The bears are just swiping. Also, I don't think that's going to work. Anyway.

Some animals do it by the stars. Anyway, zander dung beetles roll their dung by the fucking Milky Way in the sky. That's a fact. Wild. What do you mean by the Milky Way? They look at the, I know. But they're looking at the sky. And they're aligning themselves, not by the moon,

but by the fucking Milky Way. That's how Dung Beatles roll their dung. How come human beings can be so smart in some things and there's no way I could look at the stars and roll my shit in any direction. Yeah. Anyway, Xander sent us an email. Zander.

You know what this is like every time we do that, it's like this, it's always sunny bits where they're like talking in the lawyer's office for like five minutes and then they cut and the lawyers actually in the office, they're not waiting for him. arguing like, oh, we got, this guy's definitely mobbed up, man. This guy, this cop-troller is like, he'll definitely take a bribe.

We just ride this guy and he's just sitting there listening the whole time. Sorry, Zan. Anyway. Little Zan. Zan. I just wanted to chime in on the conversation regarding carrier pigeons. I came across the story of years back. The carrier pigeons were crucial during the world wars

because they were more secure than some radio transatlantician. missions. One of the most famous wartime pigeons was named Commando. Commando carried out over night. Because he didn't wear any underwear. Sorry. Continue. Commando carried out over 90 missions and won the Medal of Honor on three separate

of cases. I don't know if the commander said a mask out yet. Three medals of honor? Dude, so you link to the Wikipedia page. You can look this up on Wikipedia. Commando, parentheses, pigeon. Click out this Wikipedia page. Not to be confused with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Yeah, it's a fucking pigeon that won the medal of honor. How does a pigeon win a medal of honor? I don't know. Do pigeons have honor? Do they understand the concept of honor? I'm reading Wikipedia. Commando is a pigeon used in service with the British Armed Forces during the Second World War to carry crucial intelligence. But he's just flying from one place to another.

The dick and metal, which is the animal equivalent of the Victoria Cross. For three particularly notable missions in 1945, the medal was later sold at auction for 9,000 euros. Dude, 9,000 bucks? Should we buy this metal? Well, there's three of them, apparently. If we got one of Commandos medals and kind of made that the insignia of the show?

Dude, oh my God. I can't. Commando parentheses pigeon. I'm just dying at that. Commando parentheses pigeon. There are no content. Twitter account for the show needs to have that. You know how Wikipedia has like the disambiguation part where it's like,

this is specifically the Commando Pigeon version. Dude, this is crazy. He carried crucial intelligence to Britain from agents in France. The vital information included the location of German troops, industrial sites and injured British soldiers. Wow. This feels like a movie. This is an animated film waiting to happen.

I know. I was going to say, imagine being a person. It's a fantastic Mr. Fox. It's like saving private Ryan, but it's just like one pigeon. Just saved your life. It says after the war, Commando enjoyed a somewhat celebrity-like status. He also participated in an exhibition of wartime homing pigeons. Wait, the Wikipedia also see also a list of individual birds.

Nice. Famous birds? Wait, Aguia, Victoria, a bald eagle serves as the mascot for the Portuguese football club Benfica. Wow. Oh my God. There's hundreds of birds with it. Dude, we don't even have our own

fucking Wikipedia pages. There's like hundreds of birds that have their own Wikipedia, like an individual bird. There's another bird that in the Second World War that won the dick and metal. And his name is Flying Dutchman. Wow.

Another homing pigeon. The last Carolina parakeet, Incos, died in 1980 at the Cincinnati Zoo, reportedly of grief after his mate, Lady Jane, died a few months before him. Damn. I got to say the,

The bar to, the threshold to make this list is quite low because there's like, there's also G.I. Joe, a second World War homing pigeon awarded the Dick and Medal. But also on here is Herbie, a duck who became known in the 1970s after a clip of him skateboarding was shown on BBC. Dude, that bird could shred. Skateboarding. All right. Let's get the fuck out of here.

Thank you, T.K. Thank you, K. Thank you, everyone who made it this far into the episode. Thank you, Carlos, for producing this episode. Dude, shout out to all the birds. Thank you for your service to, what was the birds of name? Commando. Commando.

Commando. And Chi-I-CHO and the Flying Dutchman. Thank you for your service. Thank you, Lorne. Lauren. Thank you, the birds. Nice. D.K.

Nice. Do you listen to the birds? With every, I feel like you might. Turn, turn, turn. Is in that the birds? Could be wrong. Sorry. Yeah, yeah.

Turn, turn, turn. There was a bird named a pigeon named John Silver known for receiving an eyepatch in a wooden leg. What? They gave him an eyepatch? Did they give him the name after he lost his leg or before? Because that is like nominative determination or whatever. They called him Long John Silver. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah, his name was John Silver and then he lost his leg and had a fucking eyepatch. Dude, I'm going to buy one of these medals. where can I find this metal? Imagine the people who didn't get medals in World War II seeing that the fucking pigeons got medals. Oh, God. Dude, it's crazy. Like, the pigeons have had such terrible PR lately.

Like, pigeons are reviled birds, I feel like, in the aviary community. Meanwhile, they're actually some of the most honorable animals we have, fighting the good fight. Oh, rats are roots. They're some of the most honorable animals we have, he says. We have German Shepherds working with the police and then pigeons. Right.

Well, we have like radios now. The German Shepherds are on the wrong side of World War II. Yeah. That's true. The pigeons were fighting the German Shepherds. Wait, wait. There's one more that Carlos sent us and I just found it. Mike the headless chicken. Do you win the Medal of Honor?

They cut the chicken's head off and it lasted for like another six months, right? It's a rooster who lost his head and he lived for 18 months. after his head was cut off. It's so fucked up. The botched decapitation in 1945 missed his brain stem and jugular vein. So his head was just like hanging there?

His owners fed him thereafter with an eyedropper and took him on tours of the West Coast. Give me a picture of this. Was his head just hanging there? Or was his head clean off? I've heard about this. I have a photo.

You could not do a clean off head if you were keeping this carot. pretty grisly, so prepare. No, it's not grisly. It's a chicken. I've seen it. I've had this chicken. Hell.

Where's his head? My God. This is confusing. It missed the brainstem so you can just walk around. What was his name? Mike? So I asked, Mike.

What was his name? Mike? It was. His name's Mike. They gave the pigeons commando and G. Joe, and this guy just gets Mike.

Mike. Call him. about or some shit. Oh my God. Mike. Mike. Hey, Mike. Dude.

What? Dude. Okay. I'm sorry. That's so interesting. This is not funny, but it's also funny. Guess how he died. It's a chicken from the 40s.

It's fine. How did it do you go? It chokes to death. What? It had a kernel of corn stuck in his throat. Oh my God. Oh, my God. I thought they fed it with an eyedropper.

Oh, I don't know. Mike was murdered. Why is an inside job? So it was stuffed a cord curl in his neck. It's a choke job. Oh, God. Poor Mike. Oh.

18 months without a head? He choked a death I just kind of like hogged I was laughing so hard Carlos says he was also known as Miracle Mike Okay The three sections of Mike

Tabless Chickens would communicate page are Beheading fame and death That's incredible Maybe he was ready to go 18 months No fucking head. Fuck you. Cruel world.

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