The Ringer NFL Show - The New Tight End Mount Rushmore, Kelce’s Comeback(?), Saquon's 'Madden' Cover, and Steph Curry Loves Benson Boone

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

The guys run through a handful of news items, including Saquon making the 'Madden' cover, Frank Ragnow’s retirement, the 49ers trading for Bryce Huff, and more. Next, they fight over the most interesting fantasy tight ends heading into next season and place them into categories, including the hardest to rank, the hipster pick, sleepers, and much more! Plus, emails! (00:00) Intro (1:08) News (13:29) Hardest to rank (18:48) BONK! (29:38) The hipsters (38:26) Sleepers (46:14) The Ricky Bobby guys (54:52) Post-hype sleepers (01:11:40) Emails! Check out our 2025 Ringer Fantasy Football Rankings here! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Kai Grady and Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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From the Ringer Fantasy Football Show, my name is Danny Huyvesant. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Worldbeck. And today we are going over. Tight ends because it's June. So everyone's just like, let's write tight ends, right, Craig? Yeah, people love tight-end talk. June 2nd.

Yeah. We're going to answer all of your tight-end questions. So don't worry. Yeah, everything you've been wanting to know this weekend. Pressing tight-in questions. But first, I will say, something very personal, happen to me, which is, I didn't think that the Eagles could have the better year and the Giants a worse year than the Eagles winning the Super Bowl and then the Tush Bush staying unbanned.

But now, Seyquan Barkley has graced the cover of Madden. And honestly, best decision Madden's made in years is they just put the reverse hurdle on the cover of Madden directly, which is well earned. Yeah, I feel like every year, it should just be like a screenshot of the coolest, most famous play of the year before. You know what's funny? It's not a screenshot. They restaged it.

They actually had him. I think they put him on a wire and they had him jump over a guy dressed as the Jaguars guy. Also, Ultimate Loser is this poor guy that he jumped over who will just be on that photo forever. Well, that's not him in the photo, right? It's an actor doing that. Who did he jump over? Jerry and Jones on the Jaguars. Imagine if they called Jerry and we're like, hey, we're going to try to recreate this.

Can you come back? Are you available? Yeah. I'd be like, I might do that. I'd probably do it. Yeah. There has been a video that's going. around. Obviously, this came out a long time ago, like near when the hurdle happened, but I was

rewatching it the other day. It's so good. It's basically like someone from in the stands, like a fan, videotaping the sidelines as he did this. Yeah. And it like you can barely see him. It's like he sequence kind of in the background. You can kind of see his head like go up. And then the entire sideline just goes, what? Like you know, the international symbol for like holy fuck when when you put your hands over your ears. Like so many people on the sideline were just like, no. Oh. Oh my God. Do you think that is? I guess that motion is not a learned experience, is it?

Like, why does everyone do that? Oh, I don't know. It probably is a little bit. You probably still saying crazy and you cover your head. You're probably like, oh, my God. Yeah, I guess it probably started with like protecting yourself from something crazy that could potentially harm you. I think those types of movements are all, I think they're partially cultural, partially, like, instinctive or whatever. I think it's funny.

Surrender Cobra being like an international experience for every sport is really funny. Are we nervous that Sequons on the cover? McCaffrey was on it last year. Yeah, how could you not be nervous? This is a 25-year thing. Like, Sequin. Isn't though, like Josh Allen was the year before that? He was fine.

He had a great year. Yeah, but it's also a running back. I think Mahomes was on it. It was Brady the year before that. Mahomes won the Super Bowl. Well, they put two people out. I don't know. I mean, Seqwe got a 450 touches last year.

So it's one of those, like, if he gets hurt, mad and curse. And if he doesn't get hurt, you're dumb for believing in the mad and hurt. curse. I think that's how it goes. I believe. Probably terrible news. Craig, if they wanted to put you on the cover of Madden, would you do it? Yeah, for sure. Come on, you can't turn that down.

Yeah, curse. He's not superstitious. He's just a little stitious. Yeah. Other news that happened, Frank Ragnow, the Center for the Lions, retired, which big deal for the Lions. I mean, I don't think they're totally shocked by this, but D.K., I think Frank Ragnow has actually been, I mean, pretty underrated player. Yeah, I mean, when it comes to centers, centers aren't exactly the most talked about position in football. Jason Kelsey really took up all the oxygen there. Yeah, that's true.

If there's going to be, if there's going to be any center's talked about, it's going to be. Is there a wider gap between importance and fame at the football? I don't think so. Maybe kickers. Yeah. I don't know. They're always swapping kickers every year, like you said.

Like logs. Nate Tice tweeted this the other day, or today actually, after Ragnow retired. Since 2022, excluding garbage time, the Lions offense with Ragnow on the field, third and success rate first at EPA per play. When he's not on the field, 23rd in success rate, 12th in EPA per play. So he's obviously, I mean, there's a lot of variables in there, but very important player to the team.

I think Center is another, like you said, Craig, it's very important. People don't talk about a ton, but like just the communication on the offensive line, the actual snap, the blocking, protecting the middle of the pocket. Obviously having a good pocket is super important. That's the mind-mail with the quarterback,

working, calling out protections and things like that, having the relationship with Jared Goff. He's only 29 years old. Just been banged up like crazy. He's like a two, three year all pro, I believe. His retirement note, Ragnon's retirement note was also very not PR. It didn't feel like a PR person wrote it.

He literally just wrote, these past couple months have been very trying. I've come to the realization that my football journey is ending and I'm officially retiring from the NFL. I've tried to convince myself that I'm feeling good, but I'm not. And it's time to prioritize my health and my family's future. I've given this team everything I have. and I thought I had more to give, but the realities I simply don't.

I thought that was just very honest. There was like no bullshit to that whatsoever. I almost posted the exact same message after I saw Steph Curry at the Benson Boone concert. I almost called it quits that day. That was it. That was really a tough day for me. It's been a tough week, really, since I've seen it. But we're trying to get through it.

I'm kind of like staying close to my family. I have no, please respect my privacy. Did you do that idea what he's talking about? I have no idea what he's talking about. I don't. Do you know who Benson Boone is? Yeah. Yeah.

Does he have the song? Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, he has the song Beautiful Things and he does the flips. He's the little flippy guy. Oh, he's saying something at the Grammys or the country music. He's the one who's like, stay. Yeah, beautiful things. Yeah.

He's from Monroe, Washington. Don't care where he's from. Which is famous for one thing and one thing only. Well, I guess two now since being where Benson Boone is from. There's a prison there. Oh. Well, you know what? We should put him in it.

Benson. He is the next. What the fuck is happening? He is the next generation. He is the Imagine Dragons of this current era. And Steph Curry liking Benson Boone is a huge, it's a huge red flag for me, for his legacy. I'm not sure he's a Hall of Famer anymore. That's tough.

Yeah. It's a problem. It's a big problem. But they're getting through it. Anyway. He does flips. That's his thing. He flips.

Noted. All right, cool. All right. Well, sorry to Frank Ragdowne and Benson Boone. Lions, honestly, lions went from having an elite offensive line, too. Now it's like good. I know. There's a lot of questions.

I'm worried about the Lions now. Yeah. It's like if they go like nine and eight this year or even, I don't know, 10 and seven, it's just the NFL is crazy how quickly things can open and close. Pena Sewell is still a top two right tackle. And then Taylor Dicker has a perfectly like above average left tackle. But now the middle is you have Graham Glass. who I guess, you know, he's a guard.

He probably has to play center now. I mean, Christian Mahogany, the most fake sounding player of all the fake sounding players. I have many leather sounding books. It sounds like an alias for Ron Burgundy. Yeah, it sounds like something Steph Curry would like set his hotel room is under Christian Mahogany

when he goes to the Pennsylvania concert. That's like the fake name. The hardest wood you can find out there. Oh my God. Well, they did draft Tate Ratledge. Another fake ass sounding name, Tate Ratledge. When you look at him, you're like, there's no way this is, this guy's real. He's got a thick-ass mullet out of Georgia.

He's got to Benson Boone hair, honestly. Can you do flips? We'll see. He probably can. He probably can. All right. So, yeah, so lines, we'll see. Other things that happen, 49ers traded for Bryce Huff, the past rusher, which deal isn't

finalized yet, which is weird, but they're just waiting for June, but it is June. So I don't know why it's not done. But the Niners get Price Huff. Eagles are going to get like a mid-round draft pick. They're going to, like, split his salary up. Bryce off, I mean, it's so funny that the Eagles, signed Bryce Huff to a big deal in free agency. Bryce Huff didn't do anything,

and then the Eagles won the Super Bowl anyway, without his ass. And then they just traded him in the Niners because Robert Sala was the Jets coach, and Bryce Huff was, he had like 10 sacks. Bryceoff actually had the highest pressure rate in the NFL in 2023 under Robert Salas.

So now he goes back to the Niners. And the Niners actually now have a defensive line now where it's like Nick Bosa. They drafted Mikel Williams from Georgia, and they have Alfred Collins and CCHO West. So actually the Niners actually now have added actually quite a bit of defensive line depth in like six weeks.

So good for them. Totally remakes. that unit basically. Yeah. That's it. I don't care for Bryce Huff. I think that's all I don't care for Joe. Yeah, I know.

Josh Allen got married. Yeah. All right. Shout out Josh Allen getting married. Look, who did you get married to? I'm Haley Steinfeld. Yeah. I'm seeing sinners tomorrow night.

I've made it this far without spoilers. Because I went to Europe right before it came out, and then we just never got to see it before. So I'm very excited. And I've made it. I'm so close to seeing it. without spoilers. It's fantastic. I'm glad you're seeing it

in the theater. Craig gets an opportunity to do the funniest thing. No. Honestly, you kind of can't really. I mean, I guess I could spoil it,

but you can't really. Well, the funniest part was I thought that you told me the thing was a spoiler and you were like, that's in the trailer. Yeah, that Michael B.

Jordan plays twin brothers and you're like, whoa, whoa. I was shocked. It's like on the posters, like two guys. Well,

I just saw two Michael B. Jordans. I'm not like, oh, so he's playing two different characters. I don't know. Michael C. Jordan. What do you mean? That's exactly what you should think

if you see him twice on a cover. But that's not the poster I saw, I guess. You're right. Fine. I'll admit that. But that's not what I thought. That's awesome. I hope you'll enjoy it. Thanks. And tight end news. So the dolphins are maybe trading John and Smith to the Steelers. I actually think this is

even by June standard. It's a pretty weird fucking story. The ESPN's reporting, dolphins are engaged in trade talks with the Steelers with John Smith, which makes sense because your beloved Steelers, offensive coordinator, Craig Arthur Smith, coach John of Smith,

the Falcons, and the Titans. I noticed he's not trying to trade for Kyle Pitts. Yeah. Curious. Carl Pitts, undisclosed injury,

not participating in the ATS. This Kyle Pitts thing, man. I think we should put a ban on his name this year. We choose like Voldemort. We should call him Christian Mahogany.

Christian Mahogany Pitts. Yeah. Oh, man. The John of Smith thing's really weird because he was fourth in receiving yards by all tight ends last year. This is just a leverage to play by the team, right? I think so because John O'Smith wants more money because he had the most receiving yards in the history of the Miami Dolphins for a tight end.

And he's like, I'd like more than $5 million. I mean, I don't blame him. And I think this is the dolphins saying, oh, you want to live somewhere else other than Miami? Cool, we'll send you to Pittsburgh. You can play for Arthur again. Does that sound cool? And I think they're kind of calling his bluff on that. Yeah.

They'll have a compromise at some point, probably. Also, I feel like John O'Smith's season, I mean, I think he's a good player, productive tight end, but I think a lot of that came from the Dolphins offense being kind of a mess. They had no run game. Yeah, they couldn't run the ball. Their deep game passing was bad. And so they kind of just only had Janu

and that became like, I mean, it was a terrible season for Miami and Jonu really excelled. So I feel like that's not exactly like the recipe you want to like follow. Right. Yeah. It's pretty ugly. So we'll see. With that said, I want to get into these tight end, the tight end rankings

for 2025. This is the first draft. reserved the right to. Guys, we got through that news so fast. Great job. Yeah. Well, I mean, nothing's happening. It's June. We have like Madden cover. Maybe Johnny Smith is traded.

The nine are signed of D-N. No one cares about. A guy retired. Who's that guy again? Yeah, I don't know. And then Benson Boone, of course. I enlightened you both on Benson and Ben.

Honestly, Benson Boone is probably more famous than Bryce Huff by like orders of magnitude. Oh, we probably prioritized that correctly. Yeah, not even close. Okay. Tight end, 2025. Before we get, we have a bunch of categories here, but I want to start with this.

DK, we've been joking about this for 10 years or what, 20 years. I don't know how long people have been annoyed with tight end. But is tight end fixed yesterday? No. We said it last year and it wasn't. No. Okay. Well, that was easy.

I think it's, not only is it not fixed. I think this is a terrible season for tight ends. This is awful. I hate all of these guys. I like two. I like Brock Bowers. and Trey McBride after that. Maybe George Kittle.

After that, I'm like, I don't want any of these guys. I don't think I've ever been more interested in making sure I get one of the top three tight ends than this year. Because when you get to like 6 through 12, I think it's pretty brutal and you're throwing darts. Yeah, I agree that I don't really have any,

I don't have a ton of interest in drafting a tight end. I don't want to say high. You're just going to like take one at the end of the draft then? I feel pretty comfortable having, taking the last tight end in the draft and just kind of admitting defeat. But I mean, honestly, it goes right in the end.

the category for me where we start just who's the hardest player to rank who's the hardest player to rank at the position i actually put brock bowers no no amount of high is too high not because brock bow i mean brock bowers i think is easily the number one tied at i think i think literally every fantasy platform will have the top two tight ends be brock bowers and trade mcbride from irzota if you want to switch them you can if you want but i don't know where to put brock bowers among the other players because i feel like frankly the only reason to not have Brock Bowers is a first rounder is because you're afraid

that he just won't do it again and you look stupid, right, D.K? Like, Brock Bowers probably should be a fringe first round pick. Right, and I think people are afraid new coach, new system, new OC, new quarterback, and maybe the target rate and everything will get all kind of off kilter.

So I think that would be the fear is that what we saw in year one was awesome, but he's not going to top that, I guess, is the fear. But I don't know, honestly, like he's so good that I'd be willing to take it to amend the first round. I think there's the positional value relative to the rest of the position

that we were talking about like Kelsey for a very long time, right? Like he was the guy that you just like reached for because he's so much better in the fantasy world than everyone else. But yeah, I'm willing to risk it. But again, because of Kyle Pitts, I'm sorry, Kai, bleep that. Because of Christian mahogany, we almost undersold that Brock Bowers

was like this otherworldly prospect coming in. And frankly, the only reason he'd have as much hype was just because he, you know, he hurt his ankle late in his season. So we didn't see him a ton for the year entering the draft year. But then last year, Brock Bauer, so he finishes the season with 112 catches for 1,200 yards. Which, to put that in perspective, Sam Leporta had the record for most catches by a tie-down in his season. Sam Leporta had 86. And then the next year, Brock Bowers had 112. He was third among all players.

Yeah. He broke the record. he broke the record for catches by a rookie tight end by 26 catches. And he, yeah, he just straight up had third most catch. He was like a few catches shy of the most ever at his season, basically, I think. Yeah. Well, he had the most catches for any rookie ever, right? Yeah, he broke Pukukukua's record for receivers, tight ends, everything.

Like, this is one of the best rookie seasons in the history of the NFL. He broke Mike Ditka's record for most yards by a rookie tenon, which is cheating because Mike Ditka did it in 12 games. But regardless, that record stood for like 60 years. The two players last year who had more catches than Brock Powers. I don't even know if I realize this until just right now. Two players had more catches than him. Jamar Chase, Amon Ra of St. Brown.

So that's kind of the point where you're like, he plays tight end. Imagine if you can play Jamar Chase or Amon Rod tight end, and that's kind of what we're talking about, Brock Bowers. And that's why I'm saying he's the hardest player to rank. Because honestly, it comes down to, are you going to take him sixth? That just sounds scary. Especially for a second year player. You're like, wow, this is all happening so fast.

Yeah, he did it one time. And frankly, it's just you're afraid to do it. But if you were just like, well, yeah, better quarterback. he'll probably get better, right? And also, you could argue you should have more touchdowns because the team suck. He only had five. If he scores 12 touchdowns,

you should probably take him fourth. Yeah, I mean, he did all this, catching passes from Gardner, Minshu, and Aidan O'Connell on with the worst run offensive all time. I mean, like, there really wasn't anything else other than rookie Brock Bowers last year, and he still managed to do this. So I agree with you. I'm like, I have them outside, like, I don't know, early second round,

but like, to be honest. We should probably move them up. Once you get past like Brian Thomas and Justin Jefferson, like the sixth, seventh pick in the first round, I'm kind of like, yeah, that's fine with me, I think. So we have them at fantasy football.com. We have her initial rankings up. We have him 15th. And frankly, I think that's honestly his floor.

Like, I think if you get him 15th, you might be thrilled. We basically have the elite tier of receivers ahead of him. That's basically what we kind of decided on first pass was not just obviously Citi Lamb and Justin Jefferson and Amon Ra. Brian Tom, the new guys, Brian Thomas Jr. Malik neighbors. Nico Collins, who is per game great, but you know, has missing games. Bucca d'uku. You can pretty easily argue that if Bowers is going to perform like he did, he should be above Ryan Thomas and

like neighbors because having that guy at tight end is insane. Right. So it's honestly just a bet on if you think he can have this season we've basically never seen before again. Or if you take him and Brock Bowers is doing 70% of what he did, he'd still be electric, but you'd feel kind of stupid you took him in the first round. That's honestly the entire thing. He just needs the touchdowns.

I mean, on a per game basis last year, he was the 22nd highest scoring player. If you include all wide receivers and tight ends, he was 22nd, which is good. But that's obviously not what you want if you're thinking about drafting him. eighth overall. He basically needs to have like eight plus touchdowns, which I do think is possible with Gino in the new Raiders' offense. So to button this up, where should we, we don't have to make this change right now, but should we move him from 15? Should he be eight? He should probably like 10 or 12? Yeah. I feel like Genty is the, weirdly the line. Like, would you take Ashton Gentie or Brock Bowers first in your league? I think it's kind of weird. We're taking

Gentie over Bowers. I mean, I don't think it's wrong. I just think it's funny. Dude, when's the last time two Raiders are in the top 12? I know, right? I'm going to see. That's well, no, but it's Pete Carroll. The vibes are different now. Gino, it is different. Yeah. All right, we'll have to figure out where we put Bowers.

We got to move him up. Yeah. Yeah, maybe a 13th. I think I'm the reason he's low. Well, actually, I can't have him right around the same. If you're in an auction draft, it's going to be tough. Like, it's going to be Bowers, McBride, and then everybody else. Again, maybe Kittles is kind of that third.

So it's going to be very expensive if you want to get these guys. I'm jumping around, but we might as well because I feel like Bowers is, or sorry, Bowers and McBride, those are the two six to midnight players as well. Like McBride is the sixth to midnight player, right? I mean, McBride, one catch behind Bowers last year. He had 111 catches, which I think goes under the radar because he only had two touchdowns. Yes. And not only that, the catch thing, but just straight up fantasy production.

Like, Trey McBride scored 0.02 less points per game than Brock Bowers. And he only had two touchdowns. 0.02, so it's two yards again. Yeah, two yards. So he had the exact same season as Brock Bowers. He had two touchdowns. And it's like, I mean, you have to imagine that is going to change. He had 15 end zone targets last year, which was fourth among tight ends.

Over the last two years, sorry, he's had 15 end zone targets, which is fourth among all tight ends. He's got, you know, he had two last year. And he recovered a fumble in the end zone. Yeah, so take the fumble of the end zone out of it. So Trey McBride had two receiving touchdowns. Yeah. But he had 111 catches.

Before that happened, can you guess how many players in the history? of the NFL managed 111 catches, but didn't even hit three receiving touchdowns. Did Deontay Johnson get to 111 catches? I don't think he did. He didn't even get close. I'm going to say none. Yeah, zero. It has never happened before. That never happened in NFL history. Not a lot of guys have

caught 1111 passes, I feel like. Even just what Trey McBride did of hitting 1100 receiving yards with only two touchdowns, the only, like the list of people who have 1100 yards and only two touchdowns is like Art Monk in like 1985. Goate. Kishon Johnson for 0-1, Tampa.

Jericho Cotry for the 2007 Jets. Antonio Brown, actually, for the Steelers in 2011. Bobby Trees for the 2019 Rams and Trade McBride McBride last year. So it is genuinely almost impossible to play as well as as Trade McBride did last year without scoring more. So he's kind of the epitome of like,

he'll go from two touchdowns to 12. Yeah. But that's kind of going to be baked into his price. And that's what Craig's saying with the auction draft thing, where it's like he's going to be top 30 player bare a minimum, but realistically, you're paying the gas of just no one wants to be stuck with the schmucks at tight end otherwise. So spare yourself the headache and get Tray McBride, basically. Yeah, I think so too. It's also just fun to have a really good tight end in fantasy. It's like having a

good quarterback. You can make the receiver, you can cobble together receivers and running backs. If you have a great tight end and a great quarterback, you feel easy every morning, waking up on Sunday. It's just like Tuesdays are shitty enough when the weather gets cold. Yeah, you're like, do I add cold command or no offense? It's like, shoot me. And you have your, you have your, you have your, You already have like emails you've got to respond to and it's getting cold and like you're taking winter stuff out of storage. And yeah, on top of that, you get a stream of tight end. Like who wants to deal with that? Can I ask you guys a question?

This isn't necessarily like related exactly to this category. But next year, is there any player that you could even see being in this category? Like next year, like the guy that we all are just bonk, we're going to have to bong about next year. That's not Bowers or McBride. If it's anybody, who do you think it would? be? Like Loveland, maybe? I mean, I guess you could say one of the few rookies.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, Sam LaB, I mean, I think Colson Loveland's a really easy answer. I mean, to Chicago. Like the guy that we're going to be way too excited about at this time. Imagine if the Colts are good. Like, just imagine a world where Tyler Warren is, I mean, if Anthony Richardson is actually good. Tyler Warren would be on there. It's hard to say anybody else other than the two rookies just because we haven't seen them yet.

Everybody else we have like somewhat of a sense. I can imagine Tucker Kraft. Yeah, there's some sleepers later that might be in this category, but yeah, it's not many options, D.K., you're right. Okay, so, D.K., who's your hardest player to rank? Mine's Bowers, just because I don't know where to put it, but who is your hardest tight in the rank? I think T.J. Hawkinson from the Vikings is tough because, you know, this is the same issue that we have basically with Justin Jefferson. We had this conversation a few weeks back where it's basically we trust the talent. We think he's a good player. But there's just so many question marks about this offense. What's it going to look like under J.J. McCarthy?

Are they going to be super run heavy to try and protect their young quarterback? Just exactly how are the target hierarchies going to kind of break down? Because obviously, Justin Jefferson's going to be the big time number one there. Jordan Addison quietly is like still an ascending player, a very good number two receiver. And I think there's a strong chance he's the number two in this offense. And then, you know, then Hawkinson coming off of an injury, I think he'll be a hundred 100% healthy this year. But I just think there's a lot of question marks.

And he's not cheap. You know what I mean? You have to get him fifth round, fifth, sixth round, if you want to kind of like go for Hawkinson. So I think there's just a lot of question marks. And it makes it tough to figure out what his actual ceiling might be. I guess what's his most likely outcome? What do you guys think?

I know. Huyvesant's Hawkinson is your guy. And I agree that I am into him this year. But I also agree with UDK. The price tag, I think because of what we've been. saying about it's really the tops it's it's kittle mcbride and it's bowers and then it gets thin pretty quick that i think unfortunately hawkinson has now just by default become like kind of the fourth or fifth tied in off the board with him and leporta and at that level you're like oh it might

still be a good pick but it's no longer like a really cheap great deal it's kind of become like something you got to pay for a little bit more than you wanted to i think i totally agree i'm already crushed by this because i'm a hawkinson was if you could you could you I think when we talked about this four months ago, I was like, Hawkinson's going to be my biggest sleeper coming into the year, and he's just not a sleeper because he's the epitome of the year after the year after the injury.

He's like too expensive to be a sleeper, yeah. Yeah, it's like he tore his ACL on Christmas Eve of 2023, and he came back in week nine, it didn't look the same for a month. And then in December I'm watching the Vikings, and I'm like, this guy's back. And that happens with athletes. But to Craig's point, there's no discount.

Like, it's not a, you know, it's so unfortunately, yeah, it's just the default head in four. I agree. I like Hawkinset a lot, but I was kind of envisioning getting Hawkinson and like, I don't know, the 75th or 85th pick and like walking away like it was a steal

and I'm a little crushed that he's like a top 50 player. My guy, the guy I've had trouble ranking is David and Joku tied in to the Browns. This is a good call. I just don't know what to do because...

What do you do with that whole offense? First of all, exactly. I'm like, not only is the quarterback situation out of control, and Joku himself is such an interesting career. He's quietly 29 years old and he's come... This is going to be his ninth season in the NFL. And it took, he was like a true late bloomer.

and then he has like these like pocket. He was drafted before you worked at the ringer. That's how long David and Joker. This is his ninth year? Ninth season for David and Joku. There's no way that's good. Yeah. And I'm like, he has these like months where he is like a fantasy league winner. Like at the end of 2023 with Flacco, he was the number one tight end in fantasy for five weeks.

But then outside of that, he's kind of just like your like your random waiver wire tight end. And so I'm like, I don't know. Flacco's on the Browns again. But there's also Shador and Kenny Piggins. He's not going to start the whole year. I'm like, I just like don't know what's going on with Cleveland. I think Injoku's talented. I just, I don't know what to do with it because last year he was the fifth best

tight end in fantasy. Yeah. Craig, you're so right on this. It's really impossible to know what to do with Injoku because just looking back, I don't have the stats on this in front of me, but just looking, thinking back on when he really went off with Joe Flacco, it was like a lot of screen game stuff. They were dumping it off to him and he was making hay in the screen game. And guess who they picked up in the draft this year?

Harold Fanon, who's. who's like a run after the catch, sort of move tight end type of guy. It's just interesting, I guess, number of variables here that make it very hard to predict exactly what his role is going to be. Are they going to bring in Fanon? Are they going to bring in one of their running backs and do him, use him in the screen game instead? Like, isn't Djoku really the best guy for that?

Like, there's a million questions I have about this. I love Fanon, but I do not think Fanon is a thing for 2025. Well, probably not. Probably not. Contract voids after this year. So I think that Fanon's kind of like if they don't bring Joku back next season. I think that's a team drafting a year ahead.

But Anjoku, I think you're right about the month at a time, Craig. And Joku has those flashes where you're like, oh, he is as, I mean, my always band word for DK, like he is as athletic as any tight end in the NFL, David and Joku. So athletic. But I think we need, I'm sure, I think I'm like, I think I'm like, so fucking athletic. So fucking athletic. It's fast. I just think I want to be more comfortable this fantasy year being like, I don't want

anyone on that team. And I don't think I want anyone in the Cleveland Browns whose owner, Jimmy has them, clearly just was like, I know you just took Dylan Gabriel, but we're also going to take Shedars Sanders. And the fact that the owner's already meddling in the quarterback decision in April. And I'm like, I don't know how many years in a row do you need to like look at the Cleveland Browns and be like, well, maybe? And I'm like, no, I just don't want to participate in this team. And if like I lose my fantasy championship because they underrated the Cleveland Browns, like so be it. I will live that life. He's just a little bit of a fantasy cockroach and that like it does it.

Like he's really played good under terrible circumstances. Like he's already been fucking great with Joe Flacco. So I'm like, usually I always try to look for like, you want to make sure the offensive environment is strong. You want to make sure he doesn't have a lot of target competition. You want a competent quarterback. And Joku kind of has none of those all the time and he still is just awesome for like two months every year. So that's why he's impossible to rank for me.

Would you rather, that's true. I mean, would you rather have David and Joker or Evan Engram who's on the Broncos now with Sean Baton? that's a good question off the top of my head I guess I would lean ingram because of all to talk about him being the Joker even though again I've basically sworn off

Which to be clear The Joker I'm sick of that fucking term I know I agree You should be you should be I agree What do you say Evan Ingram is the joker Everyone on the fucking offense is a Joker One time one time

I remember this Riley our editor High Fitz Riley McAtee I was writing he's a movable chess piece and then he Riley wrote in the edits he's like all chess pieces move I was like fuck you're right fuck what do we what do we do now how do we use this expression you need to say which which chess piece is he is he the queen

is he the king can he only move one piece at a time can he only go diagonally I don't know chess so I'm going to stop using that term and this is why this is the exact same way I feel about the Joker. Everyone that the Broncos have signed or picked up in the last two years is the new Joker. Yeah. I'm like, okay. Who is it going to be? Also, Joker's, yeah, you mean the card, not the character, you know, murders people. Well, yeah, yeah, probably. So it's just boating little bitches on the chessboard. Okay. Hibster, who's the player team or thing that everyone loves that you don't love, D.K.

So I didn't really have like a strong take on this one. I think Sam Leporta was the guy who came to mind. it's not, I don't even know if he's a hipster guy anymore, but I just think right now, if you look at his price and where he's being ranked versus where he is on the hierarchy of the passing game in Detroit, he's, he's, we haven't ranked 57th overall. Yeah. Literally next to Hawkinson. The tight end four or five usually. Yeah.

And he's being priced like he's the number two option in the Lions passing game when in reality he's more likely to be the number three option. I mean, remember, they still have Amman Rossing Brown and Jameson Williams. And Jameson Williams has had more high. hype thrown out from coaches for the Lions this year or this offseason than anybody else I've seen. He's like one of the hot players this off season. And obviously the talent's undeniable. But you're hearing all this stuff about how he's like maturing. The details are there. And I think there's also trade rumors about him. Yeah. But that's, you know, neither here nor

there. He didn't get traded. Maybe they're hyping him up to trading. Pump and dump. The classic pump and dump. Yeah. But regardless, last year, Leporto was third on team in target rate, 16% target rate, Amon Ra 27% JMO, 17.4. And I don't know, unless something pretty drastically changes, it seems like that'll be the case again, that it's Amonraa and Jamo first. And honestly, if you're the Lions,

you want those two explosive guys getting the ball more. Anyway. And Ben Johnson left. And Ben Johnson left. I feel like Leporta is again being priced closer to like his ceiling than like where his middle. there's no one else.

Yeah. Like it's just a weird year. After the top three, there's just no one else. For the record, I think he's a really good player. I'm just talking purely fantasy. Hate the ADP,

not the player. See, we can't hate some players. What are you talking about? Well, I do hate some players. Yeah, Jalen Waddle, I hate.

Personally. Dude, Christian Mahogany? My God. I think you're in here all off season is like, well, why would you take Sam,

I mean, also, you're not going to get this all off season. But the thing I'm going to say, right now is why would you take Sam Leporter 45th if you could take like Colston Loveland 110th perfect perfect example last year okay Leporta scored 10.9 points per game and half BBR where some people call it 11 okay but well technically it's 10.9 because I wanted to say in the 10 11 guys Zach Hertz Dallas Goddard and k. Dotton all scored 10ish points per game just over 10

points for game so like the replacement level is Zach Hertz Dallas gotter and k dot and from last year. And you were like paying a fifth round price for that. So I don't know. I'm just, yeah. Why buy, why buy a Leporter early when you can just grab literally some random dude later in the draft and hope for the best?

Take literally anyone later. Just anybody. Fucking Zach Hertz. He's still playing. When the Bears took Colston Loveland in the first round, Ben Johnson, the new head coach, who came from the Lions to the Bears, compared Loveland to Laporte, I believe.

basically a lot of people were like, you know, and if Lipport had, how many touchdowns did Leport have as a rookie? Like 12, something crazy. So I think that's the question. Like, Craig, are you buying the rookies at tight end this year? Because a lot of people are going to just turn to that.

I don't think I am. They're my hipster. I'm not into them. That's a good call. It's a good zag. Yeah, I just think that, you know, Brock Bowers has done a lot for the rookie tight end reputation. That's hot right now.

And I do think so hot right now, these rookie tight ends. But like, I don't know. I really like for a rookie tied end to pot. I mean, it used to be like you waited three years. And then it was like, we'll see. And now you wait until they're on their second team. Yeah.

And now it's like, all right, it needs to happen immediately. And I look at the environments and I'm like, okay. But Brock Bowers had a wasteland of competition around him. They couldn't run the ball. I mean, the quarterbacks weren't like running quarterbacks. They were guys who were just dropping back and throwing to Bowers over and over. Even with Leporta, he was in like the most ideal offensive efficient situation ever. It was pretty much a Monra.

and then it was him. You look at guys, it's like Loveland. I know these guys were both top 15 picks in the first round, but Loveland has a ton of competition. I mean, not only at receiver, but at his own position. I mean,

Colt Komet is still there. You have DJ Moore and Roma Dunzee and Luther Burden, and there's just a lot going on there. Who's going to be the Joker? Who's so many jokers? You have a hands going to be the movable chest piece. There's all too many jokers. You can't win with just jokers.

All chess pieces move. I was like, a little pedantic, But God damn it, you're right. And then Tyler Warren, I'm like, all right, Anthony Richardson is throwing to him. This is just an ridiculous offense to bet on. If you talk about not feeling confident waking up every Sunday about an offense, it's the damn Colts. It's a run-first offense with a running quarterback.

And I get that maybe they just injoku him and they should just throw his ass screens all day every day. Yeah, and maybe that will work. And I actually probably would opt for that more than I would love Lund. but I just I think I'm like I'll wait and see this year with those guys I agree I love that the premise of this this whole show is the two guys we like two tight ends that's it too there's too no I like a lot I just think that I like two I like a lot I just don't I hate everyone else I almost think that we should should we as a bitch we're not a bitch a bit for our tears that's like what that's a bit and I talk there were too many sounds

But should our bit should be Tier 1 for Ted ends as Bowers and McBride? And the rest of the tier. He's like 20 guys and the tier 3 is Kyle Pitts alone. Yeah. Yeah. This is like our last. Yeah. We should do Tier 1, Bowers and McBride. Tier 2, no one.

Tier 3, no one. Tier 4. Sam LaPorte. I think I might just take Kyle Pitts a lot this year just because fuck it. I've thought, you know what's funny? I wrote out an entire thing in Kyle Pitts. And then I, for this episode, episode and then I saw Kyle Pitts undisclosed injury.

He's not even practice. Rahim Morris is like, Rahim Morris is like, I, uh, you know, you know, we don't discuss the nature of injuries this time of year, but yeah, with what he's dealing with, he's going to sit out. And I'm like, you know. It feels like we have a professional obligation for one of us to be in on Kyle Pitts every year. Like I think last year it was me year before that.

I don't remember. D.K. maybe. High Vince, it should be you this year. This is good. I'll do it. I'm down. He's 24 years old. Don't, no.

Don't know. Stop. He's 24. The cool thing about him, he's playing in the league for five years now, and he's 21 years old. He's 24. Wait, what's the Michael Cain bet? She's only 16 years old. She was 16 years old.

She was only 16 years old. It's not quite deep enough, Craig. She was only 16 years old. Yeah, that's call it. Anyway, wait, here's the question. Should George Kittle be in that tier? Because I'm kind of, I love George Kittle as a player. He's about as fun as it gets to watch.

also in terms of Joker Ted ends George Kittle on his wrist got it the name before his wedding tattoo giant tattoo He's like Kittal Not the chest piece He likes the character

Yeah that was the T's Ledger Joker on his arm Not a movable chest piece on his arm But I will say I just kind of don't I think I'm worried Kittal is going to be the guy that burns me Because I mean down the stretch He was unbelievable With I you could debo down Like George Kittle was

Outrageously good I think Kittles I think Kittles like closer to the first tier than we're probably giving him credit for. But do you want to use your third pick on George Kittle? I just don't. Well, I kind of do because I don't want to take any of these other fucking gibbons

later in the draft, you know? I'm so torn because I kind of do want Kittle on my team, but then I don't know. I think he does like Pertie. He's going to feed Kettle this year. He does. Purdy and Kittle, I mean, they have a really good connection. Yeah. I also, Kittles one of those guys that I think is injury prone, but he's not.

He hasn't been late. Yeah, like, Keenan Allen was like injury prone because he had a lacerated fucking organ. Right. And then Keenan Allen played like 16 games, like five years in a row. I think it's like, Kittle got hurt one year I drafted him. And I'm like, he's injury prone. And then since then he's pretty much played every game. Not going to win.

He seems like a guy who always plays through pain to his credit. I think he does get beat up a lot, but he's always on the field. Because of, you know, he's like a Joker, you know, just plays through the pain. Yeah. I debated being a hipster, not liking George Kittle. Saturday. I can't do that. George Kettle's too likable. Pretty loves Satan, especially in the red zone. Yeah. I'm also with Dibogne. I yuk, I don't think it'll be the same this year.

Or yak. Or yak ability. Sleepers, not counting Kyle Pitts, aka Christian Mahogany, who, no, only 24 years old. Any other sleepers, Craig? It's June 2nd, and I'm about to talk about Hunter Henry. Again. It's the tradition is oldest time. It's 15 seconds. This is half-hearted.

I don't even know. I'm not going to like put my whole weight behind this. But like I do think that everyone is excited about what Drake May is capable of year two, this big leap. I do think that if there's somebody, anybody who would really benefit from this, it would be Hunter Henry, who is quietly having a very productive and consistent like last few years of his career. He only had two touchdowns last year. And yet he's a guy who's involved a lot in the red zone. it just kind of didn't happen. But I do think that, like, with the lack of competition, with Drake May's improvement,

I do think that he could kind of have like a Sam Laporte, E, like 700 yards, seven touchdowns. And if we all think Drake May is going to be so much better this year, there's nobody catching passes that we're ranking highly. And I guess he could spread it around to everybody. But a lot of the underlying metrics that I'm seeing, my sources are telling me online, are that Henry is a guy that Drake May looks to a lot. and you know he's going like outside the top 20 at his position I like this one I think you're right

if we're projecting a big boost from this offense in year two under May he's like the most likely person who's going to get other than I guess if Stefan Diggs manages to stay healthy obviously Stefan Diggs is going to be the number one and he was at practice by the way good job for him great decisions out and off the field making great decisions out there But yeah, I like this one, Craig. Hunter Henry, it feels like we've talked about him for the last 17 years. Hunter Henry's good.

I don't know how good. Like, he's not going to be a top five tight end. But like, that's why I hate the sleeper when I'm like, he could be tied end. But I do think that that is it like, if you don't want to draft Bowers, McBride, or Kittle, and you're one of those like, I'm just going to wait until round 13 and get a tied end. I think Hunter Henry's a great pick. Hunter Henry quietly had a 19% target rate last year, which was fifth. he had a higher target rate than George Kittle.

Yeah, the team sucks. That's weird. Anyway, yeah, I like that one. Along the same lines of a guy we've talked about forever, who is much better than I think we're giving him credit for,

certainly me, because I've been kind of like a hater. But Zach, or it's for the commanders, I swear to God, this guy did, he retired four years ago, right?

And we're just pretending he's still in the league. I can't believe he's still playing, still not breaking any tackles, still just catch it and falling down, but he catches it and falls down a lot. He's the red zone guy for Washington. He's the first park and bark tight end. Yeah, right.

I can't wait for just like, you know the famous Ben Rothesberger picture with like the knees and shoulders and elbows like iced up. He looks like the Michelin Man on the bench. Yeah. Anyway, last year, Zacker, it's quietly the tight end 10 in points were gave.

He averaged almost the exact same amount of points as Sano Porta, who's, you know, going in the fourth, fifth, six round. So, yeah, I think he has obviously... How old is he? Zach Hertz? Yeah. I don't know.

He's like 38. He's 33 going on 60. He's 34. He'll be 35 in November. That's fucking nuts. Yeah. He 66 catches 654 yards last year, seven touchdowns. Like Heffitt said, he was kind of the red zone guy, especially late in the year.

They looked to him a lot. Jade and Daniels really started to trust him. They re-signed him to a not as small contract. One year, 6.25 million. Are you worried about Debo Samuel cutting into that a little bit? I don't think so. I don't think they're going to have like the same

I think I picture Ertz being sort of the over the middle of field short and intermediate area and then like Debo's more of like... Debo Samuel and Zachertz at the same role. I thought you were serious. Wait, were you joking? One is a very movable chest piece and the other is not.

Zachertz is the one chest piece and doesn't. Zachertz is like the actual Checks Yeah. What's the most opposite player from Debo Samuel that you can think of? Zacherts. I didn't know if you were serious there or not.

Obviously, I thought you were. No, I don't think they're going to be two redundant. Is there a Twitter account dedicated to Devo Samuel and not breaking tackles? No, I think he has one dedicated to breaking tackles. Yeah. Debo Samuel got pneumonia and couldn't stay in the field for like 10 plays at a time. and I think still was moving a lot better than Zacherts. So, okay.

Debo Samo flew it in his lungs for Zacherts. Debo Samuel, if he was the same weight as Zacherts, would break way more tackles. Yeah. Can you imagine Debo at 250? What does Debo weigh? He looked at last year. So that's, I mean, we're going to do receivers probably next week.

I'm going to tell you right now, Debo's going to be a big sleeper for me. Because everyone makes the Debo fat jokes right now, even though Debo literally had pneumonia. during the season. And that's just like an auto, like, I'm going to just see what happens there. I'm going to just give me Clupt Kingsbury,

Jen Daniels, Debo, and Debo's name of that pneumonia. And I'm just going to like run at the bank with that one and see if you get like a top 10 receiver at Depot. All right. Do you guys want a smart take for me on sleeper or a stupid sleeper? Like one that won't work or one that will. How do you guys feel about 35-year-old tasting hill coming off an ACL tear? You feel great.

I mean, you might have to go to board a man. it couldn't be a worse idea. Taysam Hill, Torsetisiel in late December, in theory, should not be healthy. However, six rushing touchdowns, final six games. It's going to be free. You're going to add him in week five. I just think Taysam Hill is going to flip the fantasy season.

No one's going to have him. He's very going to play. And then Thanksgiving on, Taysam Hill is just going to be like the fucking running back for the New Orleans Saints. And quarterback. And quarterback. Yeah, fucking quarterback. Tyler's going to get hurt.

Rattler's going to get benched. And Taysam Hill is just going to, like, be the I'm not even saying you should draft Taseham Hill. I don't even know if he's going to probably start the season at PUP. But I think he's going to get traded. He's going to get traded to the Broncos and he's going to be their Joker. It's pretty wild. This is going to be Taysam Hill's ninth season with the Saints.

So he's the same age as in Joku? He was 28. Tateeals 35. What is Taysam Hill's legacy, you guys? Like 10 years from now, how are we going to be talking about Tassum Hill as like a punchline? He's probably like the most famous kind of. movable chess piece in NFL history. He really is a movable chess piece.

He is. He's the only player you can actually say that about probably. He's, yeah. Oh, God. We're going to do it again with Taysom Hill, aren't we? I just want to, I really wanted him to get traded to the Broncos, though. I'm not lying. It probably doesn't, probably not going to happen at this point.

I will say for real, though, in terms of actual sleepers, I just, I disagree with you guys in the idea that you don't want any of these guys, because if you don't want to take Brock Bowers and, you know, Brock Bowers goes 10th. and then trade McBride, you know, you're not able to get him. Like, you know, then you have like George Kittle, Sam LaPorter, Hawkinson, Mark Andrews. That's like six. And then, you know, Johnny Smith has probably been taking pretty high at Joku. And then, like, you know, by the time you to the ninth spot, I don't mind like Evan Engram on the Broncos with Sean Payton where they signed Evan Engram, who, I mean, one year ago had the second most catches for a tie-end ever in a season.

I know that's like different situation now. But I don't know. Tucker Kraft for the Packers. Like, I don't mind getting one of those guys as your tight end. Like, we haven't even even talked about Travis Kelsey. You know what I think? Travis Kelsey is my like Ricky Bobby pick of like first or last. Like you're, I'm just going to go for a title or because Kelsey is the guy to me where.

Is he first or last or is he the opposite? Or is he just like the definition of like mid? Well, I don't know. I'm torn because he's not going to give you. He's not going to be first. He will obviously Kelsey could be dust. Like you kind of thought that he was going to retire. Honestly, if the chiefs had won that game, you think Kelsey is going to retire.

However, I remember he had 117 yards versus the Texans of the playoffs. And I remember Kelsey had like one 30-yard catch. And I remember thinking I'll never see him run that fast ever again. Remember the Super Bowl is over under for speed in the Super Bowl? Kelsey was 14 and a half miles an hour. So we had Craig run on a treadmill to see if Craig could have 14 miles an hour. You did. In jeans.

Did you hit it? I got there. Craig ran it. Craig can definitely run faster than me. The treadmill maxed out at a lower speed. I couldn't get there. We maxed out at 12, right? 12.

Okay, so you Here's the thing, though. It's the HR meme of like the hot guy points and it's like, yeah, and then the ugly guy points, it's like when Trey McBride has 110 catches

that's for two touchdowns, it's like regression. Travis kills to get 97 catches last year and just three touchdowns. You're making some good points. So, I don't know. With him, I worry though,

they're just not going to play him that much during the season. Yeah, no, that's obviously the fear. My counter would be we're bitching, bitching, and then you're like, We're talking about getting Travis Kelsey's your tight end with the 100th pick.

Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, that's fair. I like that. Sounds fine to me. Or you can go for Brit. You take Travis Kelsey or Ramandre Stevenson? Those two cannot be next to what I'm going. Is that right?

They're relatively close. Yeah, I'd rather have Travis Kelsey. Okay. So that's all. It's not as bad as you thing. I want to throw out another deep sleeper for you. while we're on sleepers. You didn't like my sleeper, Travis Kelsey.

My deep cut, most famous player in the world. I forgot. Yeah, I forgot about him. Brenton Strange. Go out and get some strange. You know what I mean? In the last round of your draft. This is like nothing.

This is not, don't spend a high pick on this guy. What an elevator pitch. However, this guy sucks. Don't take them. Imagine like I run into Steven Spielberg at an elevator and he's like, hey, like, do you have any ideas? I'm like, this is nothing. Like, I just don't want to be the Brent and Strange guy, okay?

I don't want you guys to start calling me the Brent and Strange. I think you're the Brent and Strange guy. Trevor Lawrence, last two seasons, and obviously part of this was due to the fact they had Evan Ingram, but he had a, he said a 26% target rate to tight ends, which is fifth most among all quarterbacks. Okay.

And I think like quarterbacks either throw over to the middle field, they throw their tight ends or they're really not. likely to do so. And so I think Trevor Lawrence, if anything, is willing to do that. I think Brent and Strange,

good athlete. I mean, I'm just going to let people decide on the road at this point. He's a good athlete. And it looks like he's going to be, he has a chance to be the number three option

in this Jags offense in terms of the passing game. Once you get that deep at tight end, like none of these guys are really standing out that much. Once you start talking yourself into the guy who has a chance to be the number three option on the Jags, you've got to pounds. gets you going. You never know, though, D.K.

Do you like him out of college? He's okay. Athletic. God damn. I want a last name is strange. Non-athletic tight ends. Zach Hertz. There's a lot of non-athletic

Titans. It's usually all the thick white guys, right? Who else? Zachertz, uh, Jake Ferguson, Dalton Schultz. Who else? Who else is athletic?

No, who else is not that athletic? Oh. Well, here's, Here's my point. Dolm Schultz cannot be considered. Go look at the tight ends in fantasy that score a lot of points. None of them are not athletic. How about that?

But also the bad ones are also athletic. No. Incorrect. Is that right? Shig and Conco is not athletic? Well, he just can't catch. He has bricks for hands. It's kind of high as his point, though.

He's athletic, but he's, you can't catch. I think you guys are still completely missing the point. The top tight ends in fantasy, the top tight ends and fantasy are, they're almost exclusively super athletic relative to the rest of the tight ends. Who are also on a global scale athletic, but not in a relative scale to the rest of the top tight ends and fantasy. It's really not that complicated, guys. You're making it sound like it's complicated. I think, I think it's super athletes. I think it's a bell curve where I think sometimes there are tight ends who are.

are so athletic they're bad, like Chigacanquo is like a freak athlete, but he's bad because he like can't do any of the nuances that you need to be a tight end. But then if there is a freak tight end athletically who can do some of the more skilled requirements, then you get that perfect, you know, whatever, Tray McBride situation. And then in the middle you have everybody else. I do think you can be so athletic that that's why you get drafted and that's why you're in the NFL, but it doesn't translate because you don't have some of the like fine-tune motor skills. Not all elite fantasy or sorry, Not all elite athletes at tight-end position are elite fantasy stars. All elite fantasy stars are elite athletes.

Fingers and thumbs. Okay. I'm not going to explain it any more times because I feel like it's not really complicated. Hyvitz has been quiet. Just go talk to Josh Norris. Talk to somebody that you like and not me. And he'll explain it to you, okay? Post-type sleepers.

Yeah, let's talk about. some more athletes here. I can't wait for Travis fucking Kelsey to be the number one tight-in-finity in this year as he just can't cross 14 miles an hour. I mean, he was an elite athlete in his heyday.

He was. It's a little slow now, but it's not 100%. Just don't make bets on slow turds out there. You just recommended Zach Hertz. He's a pretty good athlete in the short area.

Oh my God. No, actually, I can't even remember if he's a good athlete. Let's see. It's your least favorite athlete in the NFL. Because he can't break a tackle. You're recommending him. Duality of man, Craig.

He's the exception that proves the rule. Right. Also, don't think he's going to be elite. I think he's going to be usable. Right. Hold on. I got to look at Zach Kurtz. Is Kyle Pittsfall in the elite, elite athletic category?

Yeah, I think so. He's freak athlete? Yeah. Okay. Sucks. Well, again, let's say you're good if you're an elite athlete. You want to bet on the elite athletes because there's no elite fantasy producers who are not. Get it?

Except Zachards. Yeah, I'm just like, no, I've been so good. I've been so disappointed. You're like objectively wrong for the record. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is we know we want elite athletes. That's the only people. we talk about at tight end.

They're all elite athletes. They're all elite athletes, except for the ones who are really old. So we should just not say they're athletic. Yeah, because it's relative. That's my point. I want to know when someone's athletic by the athletic standards of tight end. Like I want, when David and Joku is genuinely even by tight end standards actually stands out. But so does Noah Fant.

So it's difficult. But you don't have this problem when we talk about it at receiver. We do have this problem at receiver. We talk about like Xavier Worthy, four, too, fast. Brian Thomas is fast because he's like six, four and runs a four three, which even by receiver standards is preposterous. Hence why it's the 99th percent down speed score. Like, we do have this stuff.

Craig, why don't you just take it from here? I think we just, we have to figure out who's the, who's the Joker? Once we find out who's the Joker, I think that's all of our questions. Zachertz the unmovable chest piece is by favor. Can we do post-time sleepers? Zachers can get open. He just can't do anything after he gets open.

Right. Well, if he can get open, he's a weird. He's a weird. He's a weird. He's a little explanation, Craig. Hyphitz, I want you to make your post-type sleeper case,

I believe round three for Kyle Pitts. Kyle Pitts, it's really simple. He's 24. You know when they make a sequel to a movie and you're like, there was an original? Like, that was successful enough for a sequel?

There's a Bob Odenkirk movie out called like Mr. Nobody or something. There's a second one. Had no idea that was a movie. Is that the one where he, vice people on the bus or whatever because they stole his daughter's teddy bear or some shit. Yeah, it's literally a movie in 2021 called Nobody starring Bob Odenkirk and there's a sequel coming out this year.

And I was, I was in shock. Nobody too. By the way, have you guys heard of that movie? Yeah, no, you know, I got this thing, but you know, it's nothing. By the way, this is funny. This is funny because it's literally who we just been talking about, but I just found this for Mathbaum, who does the relative athletic score thing. and his, and I'm quoting him,

Zach Hertz is one of the most successful tight ends in the last three decades who didn't put up elite testing numbers showing that it can be done, even if it's uncommon. Zach is like actually the perfect example of slow as can be good and I fucking recommended him.

Fuck! Why didn't I see this before? He can't just see only on. I'm fucking undermining my own argument here. All tight ends are athletic. Fucking Zachertz. Okay, so what are we talking about? Oh, you want Kyle Pitts?

Yeah, go ahead. Well, here's my pitch for Kyle Pitts. One, if you have not been paying attention in the NFL for the last three years, do I have the guy for you? No, I mean, I think, frankly, I think Kyle Pitts is like his own worst enemy. And I think that, like, there's only one problem, happy. You're not any good. I know.

No, I think genuinely Kyle Pitts, the actual athleticism itself has been hampered a little bit by some of his, I just think there's been injuries. Yeah. But also, I just think. there's been injuries that, like, again, he's got this undisclosed injury now, and I don't know what happens to them over the offseason, but he doesn't seem to have the same timeline of improvement as some other guys. But also part of this, he just kind of seems like he's like a big, wide receiver getting up and downfield that doesn't quite have the quickness game. But reality, the simplest part is

it's Michael Pennix coming at quarterback. And like you have a new quarterback. And if Michael Pennix and Kyle Pitts come into the season and have any sort of rapport whatsoever, or any kind of, frankly, maturity or growth from Kyle Pitts as a professional, not just as an athlete, that would be cool. So do I think that's going to happen? Probably not. My argument is Kyle Pitts is free. Like that's the argument.

Right. Like Kyle Pitts is, I mean, he is, we have ranked 17th. Kyle Pitts on Yahoo, I think, is like 21st. Doesn't work, but could be fun to fix. That's the thing. And so I think the difference is this year you could just take Kyle Pitts. You could just cut him if he sucks. That was funny.

Do you know that meme? No, but that's really funny. It's like a, I forget what it is. It's like a fucking printer or something. Doesn't work, but could be fun to fix. Oh, I'm looking at a know, it's a record player. It's that word of it. It could be fun to fix.

Yeah, that's honestly, Kyle Pitts. Where did we have him last year? We had him, I think we had the same thing. We had him like 13th with the premise being he's the best number two tight end you could have. It was headman Tucker Kraft, honestly. I think we had us guys. That was wrong. That was wrong. But it's the upside.

The point is that your second. tight end. If he's good, he's good. And if not, you got him. And you ended up, and actually, Kyle Pitts was good for the beginning of the year. Kyle Pitts, I did this all before he had this under-sclosed injury. Kyle Pitts, the first half of the season, believe it or not, we've memory-holded this. Kyle Pitts was the top four tight-end,

first half of the season. The only guys had of Kyle Pitts to start the year were Kittle, Brock Bowers, Tucker, Kraft. And then after the, and then the second half of the season, Kyle Pitts was the number 33 tight-end in fantasy, which if you'll know, if you're a sharp, There's 32 teams in the NFL. He was the 33rd best time. He was behind Luke Schoonmaker.

Kyle Pitts would have been the third. Pop quiz, asshole. What team is Luke Schoonmaker currently on? Luke the shit builder. It's on the Cowboys, right? Yeah. Nope. He's not?

Seahawks now? Nope. Stop. I don't know. Luke Schoon. Where is he? Is he Tennessee? Somewhere coastal.

He is. Oh, wait, he is on the Cowboys. Pop quiz I got it wrong Wait who the fuck was I thinking of I didn't tell you guys I was thinking of a different like MPC tight end

Shit I'll figure it out AJ Barner because he also outperformed Cowpitz of the second half of the last season Are you serious? Wait you said pop quiz I failed Did I tell you guys when I was at the Montecarlo I've never seen this

I was playing blackjack Oh you know what I was thinking of Jake braining stool Briningstool brining stool I've never heard of that person I've never heard of that person That's a person

Allegedly When I was at the Montecarlo It was playing blackjack And this guy The dealer has like a 19 or whatever And you know He gives you the chips You win

And he's like taking him away And he takes me this guy's chips My guy's like dude I had a 19 And the dealer's like Like it's a push I keep my chips And dealer's like no you didn't And he had taken the cards

And the guy's like I want to appeal To the eye in the sky And the dealer turns to the pit boss they're like radio up. And the guy fucking wins. The dealer was wrong.

Coach's challenge? Wow. Coach's challenge. The guy threw the red flag and won. And we all turned each other astonished. That's crazy. I've never seen anyone appeal. The fabric of society collapsed shortly thereafter.

No one had any respect for authority. Oh shit. It was crazy. Was the dealer kind of upset? Was he embarrassed? Yeah, he was young. He was afraid. I kind of couldn't believe that mistake was being made the sound at a Grand Prix

weekend. It's kind of fresh day. They didn't really ready for the spotlight. You can't have been behind the back of the building. Maybe it's almost like the shittiest dealers that the Montecarlo get put on the $25 minimum table that I was playing. It's almost like that isn't their finest. But no offense to that guy, but

that was shocking. Apologies to Luke Scootmaker for not remembering what team you're on. The shipbuilder. While we're doing post-hype, I'd like to toss out a man by the name of Dalton Kincaid on the Buffalo Bills. It feels like everybody's out.

It feels like everyone's out. We decided it didn't work. This man had two years in the NFL. The first year, he had 73 catches as a rookie, which is quite impressive. And then last year, everybody was in. This is the year. The leap didn't happen. He was quite bad, actually, but he was very injured.

He had an injury to his left and right knee. He injured his collarbone. He had an injury to his right knee that I've never heard of called Marell-Lavely lesion. He had that. What? Which is a disaster if you look that up. It's like potentially life-threatening. Marell.

And then he sprained his PCL in week 10. The Marell injury is usually only seen in high-speed automobile accident. What? Oh, my God. Don't look at the pictures of this. For once, I'm due to Google search and just stick into the AI overview. I don't want any of these photos to creep up. So granted, that happened towards the end of the season, but still.

I think, I think Kincade is like, if you're looking for people to bet on who have like the age, the talent, in the situation, you have one of the best quarterbacks in the league. There is not a ton of elite competition on the bills. And I know the issue is he honestly just doesn't play that much. You have Doss and Knox taking a lot of the snaps in the red zone and all that stuff. But I'm kind of like, Kincade is kind of falling enough now in the ranks where, again, it used to be like, it was year three, four where a lot of these tight ends, like started to find their footing. It still is. Look at Tray McBride. I totally agree. Who remembers Tray McBride's rookie year?

Nobody, if you're not a Cardinals fan. I don't think anybody should give up on Dalton Kincaid. Trey McBride had 260 yards his rookie year in 16 games. And last year he had almost 1,200. I mean, most tight ends are like that. Like pretty much every productive tight end in the NFL, you look at the first one or two years of their career, they're not doing a lot.

And that's why I look, and that's to bring it all around to D.K.'s and this question of who could you get excited about. I think don't throw out any of the young guys. Like Isaiah likely is a young guy we've been talking about for years that still could pop. Kyle Pitts, annoyingly still could do it, just like David and Joe could took forever. And then actually did have a couple months as the number one title. Like, you know, so you never know. D.K., Mr.

Breton's strange guy, D.K. Go get out there and get some strange. Tucker Kraft for the Packers, another perfect example. I like the Isaiah likely call. Like if Mark Andrews somehow ends up not on the Ravens, this guy's limit for Isaiah likely. You know, it's ironic. D.K. hates Mark Andrews, too.

And Tiki Mark Andrews kind of fits that Zackerert's mold. Hold on. Is he athletic or not? I don't remember. I think by tight end standards, I would say Mark Andrews is not athletic. Let's see. Let's see. By the standards of the tight end of position.

7.26 RAS score. So yeah, that's a little below average. Or not, sorry, not below average. A little below what you'd hope to see from an elite tight end. Probably why he has stone hands in key situations. My... that's actually maybe this is why I hate him anyway. I think it's the drops because you've said it a lot.

Well, it's, I don't think drops. Specifically volleyball setting. I don't think drops are related to the relative of my score. I would actually, I would venture to say that sometimes people who are so athletic might have trouble catching past. Do you remember when D.K. said, they're too fast. Do you remember when D.K. dropped in a random like week 11 episode or something that he's like, I think the offseason version of me would hate the in season version? Do you remember when he said that?

yourself? Yeah, TK, like, he's like, I would hate the version of me that gives off season takes in season. Do you remember he said that? No, I don't know. He said that. I filed that shit away. Like, he would lose his mind if I was like, Mark K. Andrews is unathletic because he can't catch.

In season, D.K., severed in season DK is awesome. Oh, my God. Is that the take version this year? It's like, we listen to like our severed selves from the, we record a severed episode and run it in the middle of the season. Dude. We get, okay, we give a lot of takes. Think about, think about the sheer volumes of them are just not very good. Shoot or shoot, you know?

Yeah. Speaking of that, post-type sleeper, Jake Ferguson. Sure. The guy who's on the- Super athletic guy. I should have, I really should have vetted my choices here better. Jake Ferguson relative athletic score. Let's see here.

Ooh, not even going to say it. It's not good. Yuck 10. I'm just not going to talk anymore on this episode. Just leave me alone. You're like, anyway,

let me pitch you another 28-year-old white tight-ed. Let's talk about him. He's changing to tight end. Anyway. Yeah, yeah. Slow white guy. Yeah, yeah.

Dak Prescott loves a sort of tight-ass. That's my pitch. I'm not saying he's going to be elite saying he might be usable every once in a while. He was a tight at nine two years ago. Last year, injuries.

He had an MCL injury, got a concussion, DAC got hurt. It's not a good situation. So it could be on the comeback here. Could be the post type sleeper that you're looking for. Any other people you want to hit? You want to hit Dalton Schultz or anybody?

Yeah. No. No one's got. Okay. Kate Otten, Mason Taylor, Any other guys? I like the Dolme cancade one.

I'm going to co-opt that one. I like Concade. Daniel Bellinger. Friermuth? Theo Johnson? Have it's telling me about Theo. I think Friarmoot has a little bit of wiggle to him. Friamuth has a little bit.

Yeah, a little bit of wiggles. It's a perfect way to explain. He's got a little wiggle there. He's not on the Jake Ferguson. He's above Jake Ferguson in athleticism to me. You know what? This is why we're talking about these guys in minute 66. All right?

we're not talking about them early in the show yeah um all right continue no that's it no Dallas Goddard your guy Dallas Goddard he's good he could break tackles I like when DK goes

hoo it's such a dad Dallas Godard is my guy guess what his Rass was did you say RAS RAS with a soft S oh okay Rass

What is it? RAS or RAS? Well, you should pronounce it RAS. What does you say relative athletic score because you're pronoun an acronym on a podcast? Yeah, nobody knows what that is. I even think YAC is debatable.

I think you might, oh, come on. I think you should say YARs out. Everyone does not know YAC. Everyone knows YACC. That's a Twitter bubble thing. It's a Twitter bubble thing to be like, you don't know a yak? Text your dad right now.

Say, what's YAC? I fucking do that. Do that. My dad listens to the show. If you think my dad knows what Yack is, All right, since I guess that's the cutoff. If our dads know what it means. Should we all text our dads right now?

Yes. Yeah. What's yak? Are we saying, like, as a football term or no? I said, do you know what yak stands for? So we're not providing context. No. My dad does not know to Google that.

Did you see? There's a video. Oh, there were guys Googling Google. And then he goes to Google after Googling it. So good. It's just like, it's an endless loop. It's just to feed that. Okay.

My dad has read the message. Stand by the way, he's leaving you on red. No, no, he just read it. Oh, he just texted me yards after cash. Hell yeah. Stun. Hell yeah.

Ted. Huge. Don't worry. My dad's going to save us. All right. I'm still waiting to. I'll let you know. You guys want to do you?

some emails? Any other tight ends you try to shout out? I mean, what are you guys doing with Mark Andrews? Speaking of? I honestly might take him just because everyone My dad just replied, yards after catch usually, but for a running back yards after contact. Fucking noseball. Wow. So even he knows it has multiple meetings

that isn't clear. No, no, stop. We lost. We lost. Trying to fucking move to goal close. I said my dad. Until my dad. No, I said D.K.'s that and you were like, yes, exactly. Oh, that's true. Yeah.

All right, well, he's covered, well. He not only knows what it means, but he knows the context of sometimes it's the acronym interchangeable. Rich. Rich. Rich. Stud. He knows.

Ball. Rich Kelly. He goes, were you brain, were you having a brain cramp or just testing me? I'm testing you. I like brain cramp. Brain cramp is good. Not a phrase you hear every day. No.

Brain fart? Brain cramp? Can your brain cramp? Brain fart is a term, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That sounds weird, not when you say it, though.

Brain cramp is good. I don't actually make more sense. A brain fart, like farting is not necessarily like something that impedes you, right? Like a cramp. You can't run with a cramp. You can run through a fart. Sometimes it propels you. All right.

Or anyways, Mark Andrews. What do you think? Drafting him? I love the Mark Andrews, Jake Ferguson, Zach Ertz trio after the insistence you did athleticism. Either very unathletic white guys or dudes that just actually can't catch. D.K.'s like, what do we think?

I'm not advocating to you draft Mark Andrews for the record. Do you guys have any very popular players in the NFL that you've never had on a fantasy team? Because I think Mark Gangers, I think I've never had Mark Ganders. I never get Kittal. I never get George Kittal. feel like my friends love him. And in every league, he just, people, I don't know.

Yeah. And I feel like it's too late for me and Mark Gangers. Yeah, it is way too late. The ships have already passed in the night. I felt that way about Derek Henry and then I just did it last year. Yeah, that's great. I didn't want to go out without ever having Derek Henry and I did it. That's a good, that's kind of a fun.

Yeah. Was that an episode? Yeah, that might be an episode. Oh, that's fun. Better late than never. Okay. Let's do some emails now. doing it. This is from Mike.

Mike. Mike E! Sam Bone. Another one. Nope. I thought it was just B. B and out. Bohn. Bones. That's really work.

I don't want to think about any of the other letters. I want to organically decide which works work in the moment. Mike, Mike emailed us about the push. We were talking about the tush push last week. Mike said, I've enjoyed your discussion on the tush push. I share your skepticism that the push should be banned.

I've never understood the idea that pushing your own teammates forward would be disallowed in a sport as physical as football, which leads me to my suggestion for how the NFL could counterbalance the push. Completely eliminate forward progress. Mike says... So like where you get contacted, you're down? You can push them the other way. Yes.

You can drag them back. Oh, goes forward like, oh, you get to the, you cross the other line and the linebacker smash you four yards backward. Pick up the first half. Pick them up and run into the end zone. It's kind of where Mike's going. This is good. So Mike's basically said,

if offensive linemen can hold up a running back and propel him forward for extra yardage, why cannot a swarm of defensive linemen scoop the running back up, drop him in the end zone? It's a great take from Mike. I like this. And then how exciting would it be you see Jalen Carter grabbed Javier Gibbs

like a sack of potatoes, throw him out of the back of the end zone for his safety? Yeah, because it's bullshit. if you think about it, four offensive linemen could pick up Sequin Barclay and run him 20 yards. But then if three Kansas City Chiefs pick up Sequin Barclay and run him backwards

20 yards, they don't get that. It stops at the, you know, forward progress. And Mike points out that then It feels like a slippery slope. It's true. It kind of just ruins the game. It does. It really changes to this point. Mike also points out that then we would have

like a draft term of like un-pick-upleness. Like how hard would this player be? to pick up. And so Naji Harris back in as it started running back. Eddie Lacey would get signed tomorrow. Who's that guy who's like the heaviest player in NFL history that just got Carlos? Oh, yeah. They're going to give him the ball. Oh, the Bucks guy.

Was that like Watkins or something? Yeah, Desmond Watkins. Oh my God. I meant to bring this up last week. So Desmond Watkins, heaviest player in NFL history, 449 pounds, which is unbelievable. Put him in that running back. So his vertical, which is so. funny to think about that guy jumping.

His vertical... What's his Razz? Well, here's the... D.K., did you watch the final floor? I put a Z on it for you. I hate RAS. I think I hate RAS. Yeah, Razz is, come on. I think I hate it.

So his vertical... Do you or do you just hate me? No. I don't hate you. Well, here's the point. Johnny Broome, the Auburn basketball player, who almost won national player of the year for college basketball. He's an NBA draft prospect.

His vert is low. worth and Desmond Watson. Yeah. Wow. Like the second best player in college basketball cannot jump as high as Desmond Watson, the 349 pound defensive tackle from Florida, which kind of made me rethink college basketball. Yeah, we call that Drew Timmy syndrome.

I kind of knew that, but Drew Timmy wasn't like he was a good player on a good team. He was the player of the year. That's fair, but he had the mustache. The mustache looked unathletic. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he looked like a dork. But I didn't realize that he could be, Drew Timmy could be outjumped by Desmond Watson

who's 450 fucking pounds. I think what was his, what was his vert? 25 inches. Oh. I think mine is like, I bet Craig could beat that. 22 maybe. No, I don't know.

No, I don't know what my bird is. Anyway, yeah, we should pick up players. Okay. More emails. A lot of emails on popcorn. Hell yeah. Craig, you emailed about, you were talking about how you love popcorn. I hope everybody saw our Instagram of my dinner a few nights ago.

Big old bowl of popcorn fired up the movie Fountain of Youth on Apple. God awful movie. Fountain of Youth? Oh, I watched that actually, yeah. Did I ever tell you guys so much? I just watched it like a week ago. You did? So bad.

Oh. I didn't see the end. Did I miss anything? No. It's an AIS movie. What's going on with Guy Ritchie? Yeah. It's been a while.

The gentleman's great. I mean, so I usually, there was a period there where I liked all of his movies. And then I tried to watch the, what was it, the ungentlemanly warfare? The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare, which was just, I turned it off after like 20 minutes. And I read the book. And I was like, excited to see the movie after reading the book. I was like, this is atrocious. I can't watch this.

Unwatchable. John Krasinski doesn't have it. And he's never had it. And he should have stuck to rom-com's. right out of the office and never tried to be an action star because he doesn't have it at all. Fuck. Damn.

Craig, I'm throwing it. Whoa. He doesn't have it. I'm sorry. It's not there. Jeez. You didn't like the,

the clips and like the sort of... Wait, can you do it? Can you do the look at the camera impression now that, you know, we're on video and Spotify? Craig, can you do a gym office impression looking at the cameras? Yeah, Craig, that movie was pretty awesome. That's like the Brock Purdy of show. where it's like anyone could have done that.

Well, the office? Anyone could have been Jim. That's where you're going with this. I think he was charming in the office and had good comedic timing. But yeah, I just, he clearly was like, I want to be a huge movie action star and it's not there. Like, he thinks he's like Harrison Ford or something. But the Quiet Place did so well.

I thought that was huge. But that is not because John Krasinski's a star. It's because the premise of the movie is fantastic. It's just like a great idea. That's well made. Yeah, there's nothing to do. Like anybody, John Cresinski does not need to be in that movie.

Do you think he's an A-Lister? No. What does A-Lister mean? Because I feel like, when I think of A-Lister, I think of like, like, the Rock to me is like the classic A-Lister. An A-lister to me is somebody who is extremely famous and can open a movie. So maybe the Rock isn't in that anymore. No, well, maybe not anymore.

No, I'm kidding. Well, I don't know if The Rock can open a movie now, but, uh, yeah, like, I don't know. John Czinski can open a movie. They spent $200 million on that movie Fountain of Youth. Didn't put it in theaters. $200 million? $200 million. Didn't go to theaters.

This is what? What? Mm-hmm. So why can I, all right. Are we going to do the Hollywood movie? Can I, Craig, can I do a, can I guess here? And this is going to be spoilers. So if you don't want, if you haven't watched the end, you don't want to know the spoilers.

Watch the United States. It is the most like watered down AI, want to be in Indiana Jones crap. How did you, how did they spend $200 million? I want it. I turned it off. I turned it off. I turned it off. when they were going into the pyramid.

Yeah. My guess the whole movie is that Donald Gleason is the villain. Correct. Got it. Okay. So there we go. He's lying about his cancer. I was like, okay.

And he just wants like, you know, the power of the fountain of youth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you guess what happens? Can you guess how it goes? Oh, I did see the trailer. It's basically national treasure, but also way worse. Is this what Aaron Rogers has been doing in Egypt? He takes the,

wait so only he tries to take it and then sell it no he just wants it so he can stay alive he wants to live for it why would you sell it no I don't think he wants to sell he wants to drink it fucking billions of dollars would you rather have eternal use no you could drink it and sell it but it's basically like a ripoff of national treasure mixed with Last Crusade and it's like classic like Krasinski does he melt like

yeah yeah really yeah really yeah just guessing are you kidding me Yeah. Because he like doesn't believe, you know? It's like if you drink, it's like this whole thing where it's like, if you drink the fountain of youth, you will live forever and gain immortality, but like the people you love will die.

And so it's a, it's obviously a decision you have to make. But if you don't love anybody and you love yourself only, then you will die. And Dom Nal Gleason, of course, you know, you find out, oh, okay, he loves himself more than anybody else. He loves him some him.

Yeah. Terrible movie. I'm glad I've been watching the last. Also, like, I just, a terrible movie. D.K., didn't you find it weird that John Krasinski and Natalie Portman played brother and sister? Yeah. I'm like, what do we, what's that about? Like, I'm not to, but like, who wants to watch a brother and sister go on an adventure?

Right. Like, why aren't they a love interest? Yeah. And the whole movie, they're like, remember what dad used to say. It's not about the destination. It's the journey. Have I given you, Craig, I've meant to run this theory, by you.

We talk so much about fountain of you. I have so many questions. I don't know how you spend $200 million a sudden that does a good of theaters, but I guess that's how the world works now. The part where they raised the ship, the licitania or whatever ship it was. They raised the Lusitania?

I'm like, come on. You've lost me. What are we doing here? What would cost $200 million? Here's how you do it. You just have some balloons. That's all you need. They didn't even really get into it.

They just like yada yada it. Yada yada. Yeah. It was very bizarre. I feel like there's so much content now. I feel like no one's reading these scripts. I feel like whatever the note process was of how they used, I think in the past someone would have been like,

shouldn't they not be related? And they're like, ah, no, they're already filming it's too late. This is a great take. This is what my dad always tells me. You know how Craig's mom is like, Craig,

why don't you just make an app? Yeah. And you could make billions of dollars. My dad constantly is always texting me and like saying, you should write a script. You should see how, how shitty 90% of movies are or whatever. Like how did they green light this and spend literally millions of dollars making this movie.

The script is fucking terrible. The dialogue sucks. All this stuff. I'm like, actually, Dad, it's kind of hard to make it in Hollywood. Like, it's hard. It's kind of hard to like actually make a movie in Hollywood. Yeah. But it is, it's strangely by contrast, weird how bad a lot of these scripts are.

You think that there would be like better scripts. And yet the terrible. scripts from 20, 30 years ago made a lot of money, like every Steven Segal movie. Right. So it's just okay to spend $200 million on that movie? No, I don't... No, I don't think anybody thinks it's okay. And I think that is, that's a dying... I don't think anyone thinks it's okay. Why did they do that? They're trying to bring people to the streaming service. And it does work. If you look right now,

it's probably the number one watch thing on Apple. And if people think that it's a big John Grisinski action flick and you can just go right to Apple to watch it, it brings people to Apple. and then they see severance and Ted Lassau and the studio and blah, blah, but I think that's starting to fade. Studios are starting to do that less and less because they're real... I mean, it's the most obvious thing in the world.

Like, even if it doesn't do that well in theaters, like the movie costs $190 million. Even if it makes $100, like you get half your budget back in a month, and then you can put it on Apple and people will probably still watch it. And by putting it in theaters, it advertises the movie.

Anyway, what are we talking about? I don't know. It's why I like fucking Ryan And Johnson, with Knives Out, is like, I want Knives Out to be in theaters. And Netflix is like, no. This all started with popcorn. Yeah, great snack. So, so sorry, you were eating the popcorn to watch that movie?

I'm actually impressed you finished it. Yeah, finished the movie or the popcorn? Well, the movie. Yeah, I finished movies. I don't duck out of movies. All right. So, anyway, popcorn tips for Craig. I didn't mean to besmirch your movie watching.

I can't believe you got all. the way to the end. The pyramid he bailed. I had to go pick up Skipy at the airport. So I was just like, well, I'm not going to lie. Tom Cruise was like climbing that Burge Khalifa,

Mission Impossible, I fell asleep. That was like, it was bored. I'm not entertained. Sorry, Tom. I know you worked really hard on that. Anyway, also, did I ever tell you that my first job was I worked at a frozen yogurt place

and it was next door to a movie theater. And so when we closed, they throw away the popcorn at the end of the night and they make it fresh the next day. So there's, I mean, an ungodly amount of popcorn at the end of the night. So we would trade. You're dumpster diving for popcorn?

No, we would trade. The employees, the frozen yogurt, I would work to the frozen yogurt store. Got it. And I would go over to the movie theater and I would bring them two large coffee cups of gummy bears. And in exchange, they gave me an industrial's trash bag of popcorn. And I would, I would.

like, I mean, clean. It's not like garbage. But they would take it out of the machine. As far as you know. And I walked, well, I saw them to it because I wondered that myself one time. But I, uh, they would open the machine and just dump all the popcorn and I would come home. And I just like Santa Claus, but with movie theater popcorn. And so I was very popular, uh, the summers that I worked there because I would just have like a literal fucking garbage sack of movie theater popcorn.

Okay. That sounds great. Epic. That's the only other popcorn I love. like, I don't do microwave popcorn, but I love movie popcorn. So, well, so Dan emailed us. Shout out Dan. Deboned.

Yeah. There you go. Dan said his tips for Craig. I work at a small independent movie theater, and I picked up a few tricks of the trade. So if you make these simple tweaks, you will undoubtedly make popcorn that tastes like how you remember movie theater popcorn as a kid. So Dan says first, the milk solids and butter make it a poor popping medium.

So the industry standard is flavored coconut oil. and he prefers the Dutchman's brand popcorn oil but any of the electric orange coconut oils made for popcorn she did the trick which is wild. So it's coconut oil flavored like popcorn? I guess. Oh, interesting. What he's saying. Electric orange coconut oil. That is what he's saying is like the key

to movie theater popcorn. Interesting. Okay. And then he goes on and says ditch table salt instead use flavicle. No idea that it's flavorical which is again a theater staple. The smaller grain for salt better coats the kernels. And I'd recommend getting a shaker as the ultimate fine nature. Ultra fine nature of the salt makes it difficult to handle and use a high quality

kernel such as preferred popcorn. So this is like a tough for Craig. Because Craig's whole thing right now is healthy, organic, everything. I was going to say, can you even get this stuff in California? Yeah, I know. It's like the most refined chemicals known to man are how you get movie theater popcorn. RFK Jr. would not approve of this. No. Flavacol looks like... If you pull it up, it looks like an ad from the 1960s.

It does. It looks like it's in like Newtown. It honestly looks like, what's that fallout? The video game with all the 50s nuclear aesthetic. It looks like that. What the hell is in it? Let me see. Flavicle.

I mean, even the name. This is going straight to your brain. Salt, artificial flavor. FDNC yellow number five. FDNC yellow number six. I don't love it. I don't like this, Craig. Maybe I'll try it.

Is the brand gold medal? Isn't that who makes flour? I mean, look, I don't ask what's in my movie popcorn. I'm sure it's all this. I was going to say, just do it. Who cares? Yeah. This is good to know.

The oil thing, I'll definitely try. Okay. So yeah, shout out Dan. Yeah, we'll try the movie theater popcorn and let us know it goes. Okay. Last one here. A lot of people send us this. So I don't know if you guys, you guys followed any baseball whatsoever, but the Colorado,

sorry, Colorado Rockies. They suck, right? Literally like the worst baseball team in generations. The Rockies are 9 and 50. Man. Nine and 50. They are literally losing five of every six games. The athletics, whose owner is so cheap, they moved the team to a AAA baseball stadium

and removed fucking Oakland from the name because they're not there anymore. The athletics have 23 wins. The Rockies have nine. That's how bad the Rockies are. So, people, a lot of people emailed us about when was the last. time a team was this bad, to which Andrew in particular, shout to Andrew, sent us a list of all these teams who had a worse winning percentage. Hey, bone.

God damn it. Does that work? He gets so excited. He gets so excited. Hey, bone. Hey, bone. Andrew emailed us a list of teams that had a worse winning percentage. And so it includes, they're all from the 1870s.

Okay. man Detroit Trojans The Detroit Wolverines We have the Milwaukee Grays And then we have the Altoona Mountain Cities Mountain Cities The Altuna Mountain Cities

It's like the war That's in the wrong order Is it Aluna Mountain Cities? Should be like the Mountain City Oh I think you're right Are they the cities Mountain Cities That would make more sense

Hold on where's Altoona That makes more sense The Altuna Mountain cities A tuna mountains A tuna hill Where's out of tuna mountain? There's the Worcester-Wisters Okay

The Worcester Wosters? Worcester Wosters started 18 and 66. We discussed a couple of weeks ago The St. Louis Red Stockings became the Red Sox, but there's also the Washington Blue Legs, the Baltimore Canaries, the Rockford Forest cities. Hyvid, you're right.

Hold on, it is the Mountain City. And it's cities at C-I-T-Y-S. Like they decided this is how we're going to. Altoona Mountain Cities. There's also the New Haven Elm cities and the Rockford Forest City. So they just kind of named them cities. So there's an association of cities in a Mount Altoona Mountain area. And then there's the Elizabeth Resolutes started 20.

The Elizabeth Resolutes. The Resolutes. Brooklyn Eckford's and the Wilmington Quick Steps. I kind of like that. Elizabeth Resolutes. So that happened. But all of this led me to the Wikipedia page for Rube Waddle. Shout out to everyone.

Kyle and Bob in particular emailed me the Wikipedia page for Rube Waddle. Is it Waddle? Probably. So first of all, I want to shout out that Rube Waddell played for among other teams, the Chicago Orphins. Christ, God. The 1902 Chicago Orphans, which included Pete Childs and Cupid Childs,

plus Germany Schaefer and Topsy Hartzell. Cupid. And Topsy. Germany. Germany, Schaefer. Germany Schaefer. Topsy, Hartzell, Frank Chance. All played for the 1902 Chicago orphans.

Germany spelled like it sounds? Spelled like the country. Germany Schaefer. Okay. I'm just going to read you a paragraph from Rube Waddle's Wikipedia. I think I've heard about this guy. Rube Waddle's career wound through a number of teams. He was notably unpredictable.

Early in his career, he once left in the middle of a game to go fishing. Oh, we've talked about this. No, have we? Yeah. Rube Waddle had a long-standing fascination with fire trucks, ran off the field to chase them after games. He would disappear for months at a time during the off-season, and it was not known where he went until it discovered that he was

wrestling alligators in the circus. I think Rube might have had a few cents short of a dollar. He loved dogs, so opposing fans would bring their dogs to the games, and then he would, like, just watch the dogs in the crowd. But yeah, shout out Rube Waddle. He was wrestling allegations in the circus? While leading the league in strikeouts. He would, and then a game would end and he would go chase fire trucks?

Yeah. But he led the league of strikeouts, six years in a row. for the Chicago orphans. Wait, as a pitcher or a hitter? No, a pitcher. Oh, okay, he's good. I thought you were saying. He's really good at his job.

And he also sucked at baseball. No, he was incredible at baseball. Wow. Yeah. Cool. Why do I feel like we've talked about this guy before? You've probably seen him on Instagram. People send us Instagram.

My God, have you seen a photo of this guy? Jaw like a cliff. He looks like Christopher Reeve. He does care. Holy shit. He looks like a guy named Germany. Oh, he died at 37. What happened?

Yeah, he drank a lot. No, that's just how long people lived back then. No, his Wikipedia does detail that he believed they spent his entire first signing bonus on alcohol. He was probably really fun to hang out with. Good hang. Yeah, I mean, he was hammered drunk chasing fire trucks and wrestling Gators. Yeah, that's pretty sick. All-time wild card.

Great life. Okay. The most important news of the day. my fault for waiting this long to talk about this. Sidney Sweeney selling the bathwater soap. Did you see the Dr. Squatch? Did you see this D.K. That's Sidney's in an ad selling.

Oh, you did. It's the algorithm. Wow. Oh, he saw it. I mean, I've heard, I heard about it. Yeah. I can't, of all the Don Draper memes of the Don Draper, like, here's my pitch. Nothing's better than sell Sydney, sweeties, bathwater.

So wait, there's little drops of her actual bathwater. I think they're lying, which is. just the best lie I've ever heard. How do you scale up on that? The logistics seem tough. I think it's the best marketing gimmick I've ever heard. Yeah, it's

going to work, probably. For those sickos, a lot of sims out there, guys. Yep. She knows what she's doing. I always thought the weird catchphrase, like, I drink her bathwater is like super weird.

It's almost disturbing how the creep is like so mainstream that Sydney, Sweeney's like, yeah, I'll sell that. That's fine. I know. I know. She's really leaning in.

Imagine pitching that and getting it sold. That's pretty... Dude, I know. They were probably terrified to talk to her about it. Like, your career might be over if you say this out loud. Do you think she's not true? Was it her idea or their idea? Honestly, she's probably the one looking through her fucking replies every day.

Like, I'll drink your bathwater. And she's like, we should just sell this. Honestly, I think it's got to make money off of it. From her team. How long could her social media people, people read the fucking comments until they're like, you know what, guys, I have an idea. Light bulb moment. So wait, sorry.

Great actress, by the way. What? It's soap? What's the flavor? What's the actual flavor called? That's the wrong word. Well, maybe not for D. Okay, hold on.

What is the flavor per se? Okay. Well, Sidney-Sweeney-Bats. Matter is a flavor, isn't it? It's the Gwyneth Paltrow Cana? It's a soap. What is the, what is the scent? God.

No, they did this to us. We're not weird. They're weird. What's the stupid brand Sasquatch? Squatch. This is how advertising works. Let me tell you. I know.

Honestly, it's annoying, but who knew a doctor squash? Can you actually buy this? I want somebody to actually buy this. It's like when Arby sells vodka and I desperately try to get someone to and it's actually buy this. It's at the front of the. If you go to Dr. Squatch.com, it is right in front of your face. I might send this to one of your addresses and like let your wife find it.

I'm reading. Send it to all your friends. He's like, honey, did you order this? He wants to see the world burn. Okay. It's medium grit, by the way. You know what? Cindy's bathwater bliss.

It might be unfortunately like real in a gross way because it's extremely limited edition. So it says you have to enter for a chance to. win. That makes it worse. So she might have actually been somewhere and like hopped in six pools of water and then hopped out. That makes, that actually is like disturbing. I kind of prefer if it was fake. That makes it, I kind of don't want it to be real. That's really weird. Yeah. Sydney's Bathwater is listed as the narrative element on the ingredient list, which calls it one of nature's fine. Narrative element. The fuck is that? The element, which doesn't sound real. No. That sounds like the lawyers got to

It's like a lie. It's like the legal term for we made it up. Lawyers are like, okay. It's an ingredient in spirit. He's like, I didn't, I, why did I go to law school? Yeah, like, they spent a long time, like, defining what the word ingredient really means. Can an ingredient be a vibe? I have the worst fucking attorneys.

Can an ingredient be a feeling? Maybe. A narrative ingredient. That's actually fucking crazy. She said in a release, when your fans start asking for your bathwater, you can either ignore it or turn it into bar of Dr. Squatch soap. The absolute low point.

I know. This might be the nadir. Britney Spears is just too early. Britney Spears is like, damn. Can we go on a record that this is weird? I feel like I didn't say that enough. It's super fucking weird.

This is bizarre. I'm like, I actually think that this is like a little mile, marker. We're kind of a weird point now. I think you think there's a lot of like the stuff in pop culture is we're towing a line. Yeah. When you see when you see people with blurring their feet on social media we might be towing a line Craig. Oh, we that happened. Oh my God. I didn't even know that's because you can sell it. We were at the beach in France. Shut up in Teab and Jackie took a picture of the of the beach and like, you know,

like Horizon, whatever, and sent it to her friends. And then they were all like, free feedpicks. And like my feet were in the picture. And I was like, God damn it, Jackie. So then I, Venmo requested all of them for the feedpicks.

Nice. Did you get any? No. Bummer. D.K., would you sell feedpicks for $1,000 a month? Yeah. Would I sell? Well, yeah, sure.

You would. Yeah, yeah, of course. Who wouldn't do that? Okay. Would you? I guess so, yeah What's your price? Craig was

testing the waters I'm asking the question I guess so What's your price? Would you sell fee picks for 500 bucks a month? I know I started this So you have to answer first Oh yeah

What's the lowest 100 bucks a month We're talking about beer money? Sure, I'll do it I mean it's just feeder in the picture Like a hundred I mean honestly probably Is it like every day

If it had to be a part of your of your Instagram main account. Like if you're putting it on main. But you were getting, if it was paying your rent. What question? What is the general reaction to the public to my selling feet picks?

It'll be super similar to the Sydney, Sweeney, Bathwater. Everyone's going to have the same. Do you think people would laugh generally and think it was funny or do you think people would think I was, I had a problem? Probably unfollow you.

No, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah, because such a huge percentage of my following is right out the gate. Yeah. Also, I think it would be an... He's been hacked. It would be an Anvil situation.

I feel like they'd see your feet and be like, really? Those? Yeah. Those are the ones, huh? What are they funny? Okay. I don't know if we're going to keep any of that. I don't know.

We should probably cut all that. All right. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig. Thank you, Kallis. Thank you, awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone.

Thanks, well. I don't know if it's a thank you, Sidney, sweetie. Some people, I think, are really thankful. We're not. No. We've decided as a podcast. Somewhere between a thank you and a bless your heart. Somewhere in between.

She's an entrepreneur. Thank you, Lauren. Lord. Shit. Thank you. Lindsay Lohan, the pop star artist. Okay. She was a singer.

Yeah, certainly. Couldn't name a song of hers. I don't remember. a single Lindsay Lowen song. She sang, right? Yeah, she sang. And Hillary Duff. Yeah, is Hillary Duff trying to make a comeback?

Hillary Duff, I mean, she had some bangers. Did she? More than I remember than Lindsay Lowe. The Lazy McGuire movie. Wasn't there a song like when the rain comes down or something? Yeah, that's the, oh, dude, dreams are made of is huge. Yeah, that one, that one banged. Lindsay Lohant, did she sing in that Herbie movie?

What was that? The car had eyes. I didn't like the car. I never saw Herbie fully loaded. rain falls down what is that song when the rain falls down over me

you know who just did a cover of that Benson Boone 2003 did he really yeah stop I mean look I I will never know if that's true or not I believe it

Steph was there singing it it's a tough video I kind of want to look up the video I don't know what he's talking about. How bad was it that you're so embarrassed? Oh, yeah. I'm watching this now. It's really bad.

Hold on. What am I supposed to go? Panama hat. What is he wearing? Benson Boone, Steph Curry. It's just like the most like millennial Coachella cringy behavior. He's got the hat. He's like videotaping him.

He's like lip syncing right in the front row. Benson Boone. It's not what I wanted. of my king, but he can't win them all. This isn't that bad. This is why the Warriors are not a dynasty. You don't understand.

They're not of dynasty. I don't, actually. That's why they're not a dynasty. Oh, we'll bounce back. Goodbye, everyone.