The Ringer NFL Show - The NFL Combine Is Dumb. Here’s Why It’s Great.

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

The NFL combine is an odd event, complete with quirky rules and traditions. We try to make sense of it all by breaking down the history of the event, why some parts remain incredibly relevant, why others continue to make no sense, and—most importantly—what we are looking out for this year. Later, we answer a listener question and play America’s favorite new game, Two Draft Jargons, One Lie. Combine (2:00) Listener Email (42:45) Two Draft Jargons, One Lie (48:36) Check out The Ringer’s 2022 NFL Draft Guide Email us at [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Ben Solak, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. NFL draft show. My name is Danny Hyfitz. I am joined by Danny Kelly, Ben Solek, and Craig Horlbeck, and we are coming to you every Tuesday and Thursday here on the Ringerer NFL draft show through the draft itself, which is at the end of April. Check us out. It's every Tuesday

Thursday. It's going to be a good time. Keep coming. We also have NFLdraft.org.com. We've got our draft guide, DK's big boards, mock drafts, going to have team needs after free agency. We're going to have Solect. It's just, it's a party. It's the best draft guide ever. Please check it out. NFL Draftouthernercom. Okay, we're talking the NFL Combine today. You're listening to this Monday night, Tuesday? We are on our way. So-Lock's already there. We're going to the NFL

Combine this week. So-Legger, you're in Indianapolis, you're in the hotel. Yeah. I forgot just how beautiful and enchanting of a Midwestern city, Indianapolis is. Nice. Do you buy it? I'm trying to figure out if you're... There's a really good steakhouse that everybody likes, right? Yeah, I've

heard of it a couple of times. But now I live I live close enough to it now that like St. Elmo's like sauces and horseradish is just like sold where I live. At this point. It's lost the magic. Oh, they're hats.

Got it. I refuse to be one of those podcasts that just talks about the cocktail sauce. It's infuriating to me. And yet here we are. Yeah, I know. I already failed. Okay, here we are.

But it is combine time and every single year we get here and I'm just like, the combine is really weird. And I kind of just want D.K. to talk to me for a second like I'm five years old. DK, like what is,

the combine. Why do we do this every year? Well, first of all, my joke, I was telling this to you guys before the show, that it really is pronounced incorrectly, I think. It should be the NFL Combine, not Combine, because it is the combination. They combined three different scouting organizations, the National Quadra and Bresto, and he combined them into one event every year. This was prior to 1985. There was three. Now there's just one. They combined them. So this should be called the NFL Combine. However, Craig pointed out that I'm not right. Well, I was curious about that.

So I literally Googled the definition of the word combine. And so there's the verb combine, which is pronounced combine, which it means to merge. But then there's the noun combine, which means a group of people or companies acting together for a commercial purpose. I didn't know that was a thing. I thought they just repurposed the pronunciation of combine and we're like, we're going to do what we want with it. I'm just going to choose to believe that that's what happened, that they just pronounce it incorrectly. No. I feel very strongly that we could as a group just walk into Indy and start going, yeah, the NFL

combined. And we could get some people, we could get a couple people to really be like, wait a minute. They'd be like, the NFL combined what? What do they combine? Gaslight them into thinking that Gaslight 2020. I think we have that power and I think we should exercise it. So as we were saying, we're going to the NFL combined this week. And the, I think the weird part of it is they bill it like, your journey begins here. And like, look at all these prospects, running fast and lifting weights. And it's like, dude, it's a doctor's appointment. Like, literally all these dudes, it's to check out Matt Corral's ankle.

And they're like, you tore your ACL, junior high school. We want to poke and prodig you with four different people who don't care about your actual health. Like, oh my God, there's drilling in the apartment next to me. Okay. I hope that doesn't pick up anyway. But seriously, it's a giant doctor's appointment. And then they were like, well, all these kids are just waiting for their doctor

appointments. Why don't we just interview them while they're here? And they're like, you know what? Let's also just have them through some tests. But the tests are like the least important part of the whole thing with the physical drills. They're actually there for the medical appointments. The fact that this is now like a television event is crazy. Like, So like, do you get excited for the combine or you kind, like, how do you feel about it? I do get excited for the combine just because when you watch players, whether you're, you're doing it from the media and kind of just like scouting on your own or if you're a scout for a team,

you do watch them and go like, man, I wonder. what this guy would run or I wonder what this guy would test in the vert or in the broad jump. And I wonder what this guy would run three cone and short shuttle. Like that sort of stuff matters. Like, Kenny Pickett's hand size matters. We made jokes about it in episode one, but like it does to teams. And I draft a quarterback who expects cold weather. They want to know what that hand size is.

And we have to remember that the draft is always a filtering process. Up until the moment the clock starts pick one, number one, teams aren't trying to rank guys. first they're trying to figure out who not to rank. They're trying to filter out the dudes that they're not even going to spend effort on. And then they go and they rank who remains. And the combine really matters that. So I get excited because it is stock up, stock down.

It is movers. Like it is fun to watch these guys be incredible athletes and then see that have a direct ripple effect correlation to where they get drafted, how much money they're making the rookie deal with team they go to. To me, that is cool. But you're absolutely right in the sense that like

the NFL has done their best to make this a really like big TV event where it's like, okay, he's running the 40, baby, here we go. And really, that's like, as fun as that is, that's not the most important thing happening this week. Yeah, I mean, they didn't have... Because that are you feel too? It wasn't covered on TV for a while. And then in 03, they added cameras when the NFL network began. And now it's on ESPN and NFL network. And it's like an entire week coverage. Yeah. And they announced who the broadcasters are, right? Like, here's the desk, here's the this and whatever. And it's like, all right, you guys can relax. We get it. It's practice.

going on. Do you feel that way how Solek feels where it's really what it is, it's not finding players, it's, are you tall enough to ride the ride? It's like not about ceilings, it's about thresholds. And there's a minimum threshold for athletic ability to just be an NFL player, like the last player on the roster. And they're just basically like, are you tall enough to ride the ride? Are you strong enough to be an offensive line?

Are you fast enough to play cornerback? And while we look at the ceilings of the players, the highest, you know, the fastest times, the teams are actually more focused on the lower bound and the players that skating the bottom. Is that fair? It's about outliers. You know, it's a past, it's, and for most guys, it's a pass-fail proposition going into the combine. There is this long-established benchmark and baseline of what an NFL, quote, an NFL athlete is on different positions. And for the most part, you just want to land in that, like, realm of an NFL athlete. The outliers, the guys who are not just like simply not athletic enough to be,

be in the NFL for the most part, don't really work out. There is every once in a while guy who is just like absurdly bad athleticism based on like the combine metrics that ends up being good NFL player. But for the most part, teams are looking for guys that they can eliminate

from their board. Like so like said. However, I would say on the other end of it, like the elite elite athletes, the guys who test out of this world in the 99th percentile and a lot of stuff, that really can have an effect on their draft stock. And they can really go from like

mid-round prospect to like a potential first round or a second round or whatever. And so there is, it's, I think we say this every year. It's like, it doesn't matter for the most part. Like, again, you just want to be in one little general range so you're not like looking like a terrible athlete. But if you go in there and really blow it up, that can really push you up the board for a lot of teams. And so it is important and it isn't, I guess is kind of like the bottom line. Is there more risk than reward at stake at the combine for players, would you say? For players who are currently like first round guys absolutely you know what i mean and that's why you see like evan neal the tackle out alabama who right now is is you know uh the odds on favor to be the first overall pick

pretty much every major sports book he's not testing because why would you if you're already going to be the first pick right right and he'll and he'll test it his pro today like that's what he says now he's like listen like it was a long season a beat up to have enough time to prepare because we got to remember Alabama was playing like a month ago two months ago or whatever they play more games yeah yeah yeah so we're you know i'm going to test my pro today give me more time to prepare, which is all well and good. If he doesn't do, you know, the three-killer and the short shuttle at his pro-day, really, like, I was going to say not, nobody's going to bat an eye.

Somebody's going to bat an eye, but it's not going to get nearly the amount of coverage and discussion as it would if he tested here at the combine, but didn't do that. So he'll say, like, oh, I'll do everything at the combine, or I'll do everything at my pro day, excuse me, and then he won't necessarily. Derek Stingley, Coroner LSU, same thing, Jeremy Rucker, tied into Ohio State. That was a little weird because he has stuffed again. But, like, if you're like a top 15, 20 consensus guy, and there's any reason to believe you won't test at 100%

you don't do it in this context. It's not the right context to do it. You're much more likely to put a better numbers at your pro day anyway. Could you explain

the difference between a pro day and the combine and why you're going to have better numbers at the pro day? Absolutely. Okay. So like,

let's a good example. All right. So you go to interview for a job. You're a dentist and the dentist's office is like, come be a dentist over here. And like,

all right, cool, me to come interview. And then the dentist's like, all right, interviews can be at like 5 a. And you're like,

well, if that seems, that seems... On the East Coast. Yeah, that seems needless, Mr. Dentist, sir. Like, I can just come in, like, during business hours,

and it would be great. Like, that's when you interview. They're like, no, it's going to be at 5 a.m. And you're only allowed to wear orange. What, like, that doesn't, like, how is, this isn't helping? That's what happens at the NFL Combine.

They put the players through an absolute ringer. Hey! Good one. Nice. Yeah. Of, yeah, of a schedule. They have a four-day schedule. They have interviews.

They have orientation. They have more interviews. They have a general. medical exam, right? They have media stuff, right? They have the orthopedic exam. They have the meeting with the players association. They used to do the Wonderlich test. They don't do that anymore. They do a lot of things. And they do drug

testing, which they like do super early in the morning. This year with COVID concerns for a while there, it looked like they were not going to let the players also have like access to their own meals and to their own like trainers because there was going to be a bubble. And like that got tabled because everybody said they were going to freaking boycott. And appropriately so. But like

there's a lot of busyness this week. And so if you were interviewing for the dentist's office, the dentist's job at 5 a.m. wearing only orange, you would not be at your best. That's where we are for these players. Whereas the pro day, which is a mini combine, it's essentially a scripted practice that also has all the athletic drills that the combine does, the vertical jump, the barrage up, the three cone, the 40, whatever drills you want. That plus a scripted practice, right, bag drills, quarterback throwing to receivers, change the direction drills, whatever, is hosted by schools and the entire NFL is invited. And so if, again, like, if I'm a player at LSU, LSU is going to have

a pro day and everybody's going to be there because it's LSU, it's Alabama, it's Ohio State. And in that context, I can sleep till 930, can wake up, do my stretches, roll in at 11, right? I can be in a much more familiar environment, a place I've been for four years. It's a lot less stress, it's a lot, not cameras, you know, whatever. It's familiar. And it's just a lot easier to perform better. And that's why we historically see pro-day numbers are a lot better than combine numbers.

Sometimes, suspiciously so. But if you don't put up combine numbers, not like they can compare it to anything, so you're all right. The other thing is like, it's a mental thing, and you mentioned this,

So like, but it's like when you're going there, you see this with quarterbacks, it's like, they're going and throwing with their receivers, the guys that they have chemistry with, right?

Like, they're going through and doing their, they're throwing whatever, rigamarole. And it's very scripted And with guys that they know their speed, they have chemistry with at the combine, this is again, like, on prime time. And all these quarterbacks are thrown into guys they've never thrown to or whatever. It's just a different sterile environment. If you, you know, like I'm just picturing. And believe me, this is not like me going back to my glory days. But like if you go and play in a different different gym, like a different high school gym, this is being playing high school basketball. Like you're not used to with the hoop. Like the things around it, behind it are weird. It looks different. It's like a different height. You had terrible numbers on the road, didn't you, DK? Totally, totally.

It's just that's why. It's because the coach wouldn't put me in, too. Political. Yeah. It's because his son was on the team. No. But, like, that's the same idea. It's like, you know, it's an unfamiliar spot,

and you want to be in, you want to go and play at your home stadium or whatever. And so, like, that's why a lot of people are going to probably not. Like, I already heard, I think Matt Corral is not going to throw, you know, at the combine, even though it's been, however, excellent out of long since he's, suffered his ankle injury. He's using that as the excuse, give itself more time to, like, prepare.

But still, it's just, like, one of those things where you're going to see more and more quarterbacks just not do the combine stuff, I think, over the years. Well, then, this might be reductive question, but what's the point of the, like, why don't they change the combine then? Or what's, like, great question. No, it's an excellent question. Back in the day, when we couldn't just be, like, flying GMs and head coaches around on private planes, combine made a lot of sense.

Let's get out of prospects into Indy. Let's get all the coaches and general managers into Indy. Let's do this thing. Now we out here doing Zoom interviews, right? Like we had to do that during the pandemic. Yeah, you couldn't have unlimited right now, I think? Right. Yeah.

And Pro Day wise, like... It used to be 60. You could only have 60 interviews. How many people was it? So the Combine used to be 60, and then it went to 45 during COVID. I don't know how many it has this year. I don't know if they bounced it back or not. But like, your Pro Day attendance is not limited, right?

you can go, remember pro days you want, man. And what's really cool about pro days as well is the combine has players that get invited, right? They're Bresto and the NFL's Combine scouting staff, put together a list and they send out invites. You have to have an invite in order to attend. Well, if you're a small school prospect, you don't get an invite really sucks. But with teams attending pro days, you have Austin Eccler, who's that Western Colorado School of Mines, whatever the freaking heck it was. And he can get to the Colorado Pro Day a lot easier. And he can get to Indianapolis.

doesn't need an invite. All he's got to do is have his agent talk to Colorado and they let him in. And then you have Echler begging scouts. Like, listen, he's like, his agent, I should say. Begging scouts saying, like, listen, say, like, watch my guy jump, watch my guy run. Like, watch him catch some passes. And they're already there. They're just going to be like shooting the breeze with other scouts they know.

So they hang out. And then Austin Echler jumps 39 freaking inches or whatever it was. On draft the free agent of the charges, he's the starter. Like, that's also happening from pro days. And so now that it's a lot easier to send GMs all over the place. And there's like, you know, tape is digital now, right? A lot of this personality stuff gets done digitally and virtually. ProDays make a lot more sense.

We have to figure out how to adjust our year-over-year historical database to doing primarily pro-day numbers or combine numbers because the Penn State 40-yard dash track is 38 yards and everybody knows it. But besides that, it really makes a lot of sense. Also, it's like some of these places are doing it outside and like wind at the back of these guys that are running like four-toos. They angle it. That's funny.

Not to mention, like, it's February or March. Like, if your college is in the north and it's, you know, 43 degrees that day, it's pretty different than if you go to college like Alabama or something with indoor facilities. Like, there's a range to it, but it also makes a ton of sense for these guys to be pulling out. So if we're talking about number one pick Evan Neal, probably not going to do stuff. Matt Corral, maybe a first round quarterback, not going to throw. I think Sean McVeigh, your brother, Craig, is not going to be even. even at the combine for very long.

Oh, he's not even going. The Rams. I mean, I know the Rams send assistance, but Vey's not going to be there. He's in Cabo. So when, yeah,

exactly. With him and Sam, Dean's not going either. So with all that said, if we're basically now just spending all this time being like, why is the combined even happening? Combine. Solek and D.

Star was so like, what are you looking for among all these drills? And like, when you, we're going to India, it's like, what are you trying to learn? What are you paying attention to?

So in terms of stuff that's openly consumable, right? So we're not really, we're going to interview these guys for 15 minutes at the podium, but that's not really like a thing. The numbers are important. For certain positions, I care about certain drills more than others, right? As long been talked about,

why do we care about an offensive lineman 40-yard dash? If your offensive lineman is running 40 yards on a straight line, your team is either scoring a touchdown or has turned the ball over. Like one of these two things that happen, that's pretty much it. And the office alignment isn't going to impact that too much. but short shuttle times, which is a 20-yard shuttle, you start, you go five yards to your left, 10 yards to your right, and then five yards to your left again is really important to offensive

linemen and running a good short shuttle. You know, we're talking about like sub four, six about, like that number is huge for not only identifying good early round prospects, but also identifying late round guys who are worth the gamble, right? That's your Jason Kelsey's of your world, your Matt Paradis of the world, right? So short shuttle, I like three cones, which is basically an L-shaped drill where you're running the corners, you know, she has some change of direction on that corner for my edges and for my cornerbacks. And these guys who have to play through angles.

40-yard dash does matter to me when it comes to wide receivers. I don't need you to be 4-3. You better freaking out before 6 because I need you to run a straight line. I need you to run away from guys in a straight line when you're down in the field and turning a 20-yard gain into a 50-yard touchdown. So for different positions, I care about different things. We can use really good scores as markers to identify good late-round developmental guys. and then we can also use buckets cutoffs to identify guys

that we just don't want to take the risk on. And if an outlier hits, an outlier hits, right? Like Cooper Cup ran us over 4-640-yard dash. He improved on it as pro days. You don't really like, once you see the better protea number, you're like, all right, cool. But at the combine, like, yeah, like, if you were just caring about sub-4-6 receivers,

you would have missed on Cooper Cup. It's a juice worth the squeeze question because generally I don't want to be betting on those guys who are that slow to stick in the league. And so we can have signals for good guys to invest in us projects, and we're going to have buckets to try to, like, again, filter out some guys that we're just not going to spend man hours and manpower, investigating and scouting these guys,

we're just going to remove them from our boards. You've got to know the position, know the drills that matter to the position, and then set your markers and set your filters. Okay, so, D.K., what are some of the drills you like? And then who are some players, D.K., that you are very excited to kind of see whether they hit, you know, the upper range of what they're at will be.

I can't speak English. What the, who? I know what you get that. I know what you get that. So just to echo what's all like said. Like basically there's a couple, I think, metrics that actually do matter

and do correlate well to like football because some of these are just testing your overall athleticism and they don't necessarily correlate to the actual football game. I like three cone a lot because it's essentially measuring how quickly you can change directions, which does matter in football. You know, there's a strong...

Just three cones and you're going back. Yeah. Yeah, so envision a cone, like it's an L formation, three cones. You start from like the bottom outside of the L. You go to the corner and then you go back. And then from that initial starting point, you go around the corner to the top and then back down to the corner and then to the end. And so you're getting that linear stop start in the first part. And then in the second part, we have to go around the top.

You're getting that full curve, which is really important to edge rushers. We talk about running the hoop. You got to get outside of a tackle and then flatten that angle, get to the quarterback. that's a 90 degree turn, which is the same turn that you're getting in the three cone. How often does the combine change your opinion on a player?

Or does it mainly just confirm your bias? Does it confirm what you saw on tape? Or are you ever completely confounded by what you've seen on tape compared to what you see at the actual combine? The combine. There is, there's definitely guys who are like, wow, I didn't really see that speed on tape.

And I think for the most part that it's a good way, it's a good reason to go back and like watch again. But what do I see the show? The tape or the combine. I think you always should trust the tape. more personally. Because there is a difference between field fast and like getting in a crouch position and lining up like you're a track star and having a good start and staying low enough

over the first 10 yards before you like have perfect exact like running the 40 in particular is like it's such an actual technique. Like you have to have to have perfect technique. You have to have the perfect start in order to run it really fast. And so it's like not football. It's not this thing. It's stupid. That's why a lot of people.

It's like me at the driving range with an instructor. Like I can get to the point where I'm crushing balls with my six iron. And then I get out there on 18 and I try and hit the six iron and I shank at 80 yards. Right. I have a whole run on the 40 yard dash. I mean, I feel like the 40 yard dash one, no one knows why it's 40 yards, right? Vince Lombardi did it. And then it worked and everyone else.

And he won championship. So everyone else was like, I got to do that. There's no scenario you'd run 40 yards. You get to start in the track position. Receivers never start in three-point stance. They're wearing cleats. As that D.K. said it's about. this thing that's not a football move where you launch.

They don't have a football in their hand. Kind of wish they had that. Having said that, I understand it's like, you know, they have decades of data. It's a baseline. It's a baseline. Yeah, it's a baseline.

Having said that, I'm curious, So lack, about what Craig said, that comfort, that you're verifying what you see on tape. Is that basically all this is?

It's like two-factor verification. It's like 99% of the time, yes is me trying to sign it in my email. It's the one percent of the time they're trying to catch. With a motorcycle. So those are impossible. there's like a teeny bit of the wheel and one of them

find the crosswalks you're like ah panicked to button this all up this is why the good guys don't go because the first rounders are first rounders because they're expected

to test very well and so when they test very well it's cool on TV but all the teams are like yeah that's what we expected we expect Malik Willis out of Liberty the quarterback to be really fast

and if he's really fast everyone's like yeah and if he's slow then everyone's like oh no so is that basically like this in a nutshell show so like it's like two-factor verification. A little bit, yeah. I think

it's important to frame and say when we're talking about first round guys. We're talking about like potential early drafted guys. A lot of this becomes to a two FAA, right? A lot of it becomes, and you have to be careful and have to double count too. Right. Right. Like Aiden Hutchinson is a great example.

Defense event down to Michigan. Bruce Feldman, who writes for the athletic, puts out a Feldman's freak list every year, just the craziest athletes in college football. Hodginson reportedly ran a 6-5-4-3 cone in college. It would be the fastest three cone of an edge by like a mile faster than Von Miller

multiple tenths of a second it would be absurdly record setting if he runs a 6-8-3 cone that's an insane time and incredible for his frame and his size and we're also going to kind of a little bit be like I thought he ran a 6-5-4 you know what it means like when it comes to the first

the first round guys the early drafts of guys we have to just say like good athleticism is good athleticism if you test like 75th percentile 80th percentile in the areas we expect you to you've cleared the bar you've checked the box sick. Then there is early drafted guys who disappoint relative to expectation. And that's the one that to me matters.

Like that's where it becomes like, I want to check my work on this guy that I think is a first rounder. Tack McKinley is the guy who immediately comes to mind. He was edge rush out of UCLA. He was an outside speed guy, right? And then he was going to be able to turn that corner, right? He was talking about turning the corner again. He ran a great 40, had a great broad jump.

These are great signs of initial explosiveness. his three come was 10th percentile. He couldn't turn. And it's like, all right, I got to go back and watch because if he's just winning all of these reps because he's this explosive, like I thought he was explosive and bendy.

I thought he could explode and turn the corner. Turns out he was just winning the race of the corner. And then, you know, Jerry rigging his way around. He didn't really have that bend. Tack McKinley ends up a first round pick. Don't end up with very many sacks. And that was a big problem in his pro game. That entire, that 2017 edge class,

like Derek Barnett was a bad test. Tim Williams was a really bad tester out of Alabama. Like that was where there were so many guys who everybody thought was going to be first round. And then a lot of them tested with problems. And that's where it's like, right, I got to go back to the film now and make sure I understood this guy athletically correctly

because there's a chance I got got. I got the wool pole over my eyes. And that class had a lot of first round busts accordingly because some teams believe in the conviction of their watch and were wrong. It's a fine line to walk because I think in some cases it really does matter. like some of these numbers that guys are putting up when it confirms kind of what you're seeing on tape.

I'll never forget like the DK Metcalf Combine where he runs a 433 at 230 pounds and for 20 minutes or, you know, an hour, however long it was between drills that he did it, he was a god. Like everyone was like, oh my God, this guy is going to go in top 10 or whatever. This is just like buzz at the combine. And then like an hour later, he runs like the slowest three cone in history. And everyone was like, oh, you can't draft him. You can't draft him. And this is like the kind of,

you run the gambit of like, this is the spectrum that we're going to have at the combine. And you just need to be careful not to overreact to it, but also maybe not underreact because sometimes it does matter. I think in DK Maccalf's case, like obviously it was a unique case. If you watch him run his three cone, I think it was, it was like he tripped and he kind of slipped a little bit. Like there's also variables there that made him like it look even slower than it was.

Can you only do it once? You can do it twice. Maccalf did it once. I'm good. But anyways, like, the point is, like, you can't, you have to, it's, there is a little bit of, like, an art to it in terms of, like, don't overreact or don't underreact. You have to kind of figure out what it means. And in most cases, it just means to go back to the tape, honestly. This sounds impossible.

It's tough, and this is why the draft is hard, dude. And that's the thing is, like, it seems, like, hit on, like, half their first round picks. Yeah. And because it's impossible, because this entire thing is impossible, like, all right, let's, let's scout. This guy is not playing NFL players. He's playing a different system. and he's going to have a different body type and he might have had a bad day,

maybe he was drunk and we went to a party on Friday and then like it's already so difficult to scout guys and then we use the combine like I said like in an effort to filter out and decide like who are we really going to care about? But even the combine has its own like, what if he's this? What if he's that?

What if he's ever? So it's so many hypotheticals and so many conditionals. And that's why like this scouts have really become these like quasi-psychologists, right? Where it's like, all right, let's at the very least get

what's the dude like right. And then everything else. Yeah, exactly. And, like, we'll just draft guys who seem cool and don't suck. And then everything else we can't figure out anyways. We're just going to focus on that. If they suck, then you really have to dig deep on the tape and be like, oh, my God, can I handle having this guy on my team? Like, do I have to coach this guy?

I want you to do, like, a cool, like, mock draft. Like, big board on who's the coolest? Just vibes. This guy seems super cool. So I want to draft him. Yeah. So that's like, and that's the other thing. That's like the subplot of the comp line is there's going to.

to be whispers. And we already heard stuff like this at the Senior Bowl. But like there's going to be whispers of like, oh, this guy didn't interview well. But it's like also, that's like one scout's opinion, you know? And it's like maybe they just didn't get along or maybe they asked him a question. Maybe he was having some indigestion.

Maybe he had to go take a dump, you know? Like, who knows? Like there's all these weird variables to it that just make it sort of an art. That's why like just big picture, scouting it's so hard because you're trying to like figure out what a human being is going to do over the next five years, you know, so it's tough.

Are there any sticky stats? Like, what are the stickiest combine kind of results that usually mean? This one, so Josh Norris was actually pointed this out on Twitter, and he's been kind of on this train for a couple of years. Offensive linemen that run 4-47 or better in the short shuttle. So short shuttle is a 4-47? I never remember the number. Yeah, 4-47.

So that's an elite number. It's a very good number. and he's seeing that over the last 10 years, 24 players have hit this number at the combine. And they have combined, those players have combined to start 84% of their career games.

They have combined to start 84% their career games. So I think that is one that has a lot of, like, signal, just fast short shuttle for offensive linemen. And I think it makes a ton of sense. It's like these guys are being asked to move around in a short area.

Quick feet change directions, yeah. Exactly. And then the other one, I think, is the most signal, and this is pretty well known, is three cone time for pass rushers. The guys who have elite three cone times at that spot generally tend to have that, quote, bend, which really matters because you're bending back around

an offensive lineman to get back into the quarterback. You can change the direction. You can get low. You're athletic. To me, it makes tons of sense. And so that one, I think, is another one to keep in mind, too. I think in terms of signal, if you run a really slow 40,

a receiver, generally speaking, your odds are pretty poor that you're going to make it in the NFL. And then same with corner. If you run worse than like a four or five or four six at corner, you're not going to play in the NFL most likely. So those are things to like keep an eye on. Here's, I can promise you this. The bench press does not matter.

It's nice to be cut. You fill out a shirt well. You look good. You get up from the bench. You flex. You put up 24. Sick. Everybody's cheering.

Just no. Benching literally never matters. So glad we keep doing it. It doesn't matter. The bench press thing is funny, too, because there's, like, all these guys in a weight room and, like, cheering and, like, getting in your face. It's like no, it's like no other, you know, one, no other exercise or whatever at the combine.

It's, like, so bizarre. It's also, like, the purest, like, form of, like, what you imagine football is. It's, like, the platonic idea of, like, what's a football drill? It's a bench press. Like, yeah. But also, with benching, like, you can change your bench strength so quickly. Like, somebody could, like, bench press for a month and now be able to bench, like, 15% more than they could a month ago.

And then you can lose it if you stop for a month. It's like it doesn't actually showcase how strong you are by any means. Also, I feel like you move a 300-pound defensive tackle with your legs, not with your... Correct. Right. Another, like, good, like, overarching umbrella thing that we should emphasize because we haven't really talked about too much is for all positions, the jumps are really important. Oh, the jump and broad jumps.

And it goes to what Hypertz is talking about. Can you unlock power from your hips, right? Which, you know, we do two jargons in a line. and we do all the stuff about hips and like, you know, it gets talked about a bunch. But like your trunk really matters, your core strength, your glutes, your hamstrings, and your hips. And it's both your trunk.

And it's both the power you have and then also the flexibility that you have, which are both nicely measured in the jumps. And so while they don't get televised too much and they'll generally be like the wide receivers, if that, jumps matter for every position. And a good, if I could just choose one thing in terms of speed guy, strength guy, agility guy, or jump guy, I'm going to take the jump guy because I know he has explosiveness.

And also it's like the Patriots love little tiny slot receivers that can run three cone drills and like, you know, however, five seconds flat. I don't know. What is three cone? It's like six five or something like that if you're a slot receiver. I don't know exactly what it is. Yeah, yeah, it's like high sixes. Spoiler alert, nobody knows what the numbers are for those things. Nobody knows any of these time.

I haven't committed them to memory. It's just the 40-R dash. You're right. That's 100% right. It's the easiest to fucking understand if you're somebody sitting at home. Like, oh, 40, fast. Solex like, you know, Keenan Allen only ran a four or five. I'm like, oh.

And he's like, because you know that, you know. Keenan ran on Tibido's going to run a six. Keenan ran a four, six three. That's my guess. Wasn't, I feel like so many of the best wide receivers are slow. What didn't DeAndre Hopkins have a really slow 40? It's, or like, DeVonte. It's not, it's not that.

It's, you're, if they're in a four, five, like, that's fine. Like, people are so obsessed with four, four, four, four, four, two. And, and actually, I think that there's a stronger correlation. If you run, like, a four, like, you're more. like you're more likely to be a bus because teams reach on you. The four five range is like the sweet spot. If you're four six or four seven or slower,

the odds of you hitting in the NFL will become much, much, much, much smaller, right? Keenan ran a 471 and a 473 in Indy. And he filled the third round. Isn't the point of being a receiver to get open? This is like the email we got in the last episode where it's like the guys in the first round, he had an interesting point where there's been like five,

six years where there was a five-year period. It's kind of ended the last two years where the second third-run receivers were straight up better than the first rounders. And there was this belief that teams were kind of reaching for receivers with traits where the other guys were just actually good

at getting open. And we went through that in the last one. But I don't know. If you run a 4-2 or 4-3 in college and you're not the best receiver in college, seems like a problem. I think so the receiver thing, it's a pass-fail thing.

Just run a 4-5, you're fine. This is also a good segue to a point that I wanted to bring up is that teams are more starting to utilize GPS and stuff like that from college teams. So like a lot of college teams, and I think the NFL may be starting to do it, track

guys speed on the field. And again, it's going back to like field fast versus track fast. And how fast is this guy able to run in a game in a football situation? So they're starting to use that data more and more. And I think that's going to become a bigger part of like

the evaluation process. But, But right now it's still sort of, there's a lot of noise because, like, number one, there's several different companies that are doing the GPS tracking, the speed tracking on these players. And so you can see, you have, like, disparate numbers coming out to different schools. And so you have to, like, normalize that. And, like, there's not a 50-year history or however long, 30-year history of the combine, like, giving you a baseline for athleticism. So there's just, this is sort of a new horizon in the NFL. but the GPS stuff is starting to become bigger and grow more roots in the NFL

where teams are just like, this guy ran 22 miles an hour on this play. Like he's fast, you know? So that's kind of something that like we're going to have to watch going forward too and it's like going to make the 40 like less important going forward. So with all that said, I want each of you a couple guys start with Solek,

who are just a couple guys that you have your eye on that it's a really make or break testing session for them this week? Yeah. So I brought up one of them on the wide receiver pod, but I hit it again. Drake London, the receiver to USC. I brought up the fact that I don't,

I don't need you to be fast. I should be not slow. Drake London is definitely slowish. And I seem to be not, not prohibitively slow. I like a lot about his game. I'm just worried about. He is kind of Keenan Alleney,

isn't he? I have Keenan were like, yeah, got got put in Willie Wonka's stretcher thing, you know what I mean? Like, bring you back out. Yeah, he's, because he's got that slender man build.

But so that's, that's big. Evan Neal not testing, the tackle at Alabama, leaves a huge window for Akem Akemaquano, who's the tackle at NC State, who right now is that dark horse, maybe he goes number one overall. If anybody jumps Neil on the tackle ring, because it's him.

Danny was talking very appropriately about the 40-yard dash in terms of how much of it is technique and how that can really bring guys numbers down. Equano, this I think was in Albert Breer with Sports Illustrated today, I can't recall who exactly was. Equano ran the anchor leg

of the 4x4 in high school at 280 pounds. He was on the track team running the 4x4, or 4 by 1 maybe, at 280. He knows how to get out of the blocks if he was on the track team, right?

He did it. So there's a chance that Kwanu puts up like a ludicrous 10-yard split, which is the first 10 yards of the 40-yard dash, which is another really good signal of explosiveness

on a straight line, especially for offensive linemen. So the Kuanu has an absolutely humongous day in that regard. Soss Gardner, Ahmad Soss Garner, the corner out of Cincinnati. Right now has become de facto

out corner one, because teams are clearly a little bit cold on Derek Stingley at LSU, who's got some, you know, does he love football? You know, what's his energy like sort of concerns? I think Garner's a really good player. I am not sold. He's going to test amazing. And this is a class where I think Andrew Booth tests really well out of Clems in the corner. I think that Kyler Gordon and Trent McDuffie, both the corners out of Washington are going to test well. Gardner's got not a lot of money to win and a lot of money to lose. And he just has to be fine. Just don't be bad. How much you bet he just

doesn't test this week? And it'll be wise if he didn't. The thing with Gardner is like, Corner is so much about change of direction and Gardner's 6-2. He wins when he wins at the line and then he doesn't have to worry about sinking his hips, T-Step and enclosing and whatever. Combine, you don't get to press anybody. So you're just going to have to sit there and do the 3-cone

and do the short shuttle. I'm worried with his upright frame. He's not going to test super well. So money to be made for Drake London, money to be made for Ika-McQuano. Sauce Gardner's the guy who's right now got like that top 10 flavor and mock drafts, and I'm worried that he's going to have, like, an average week, and he's going to start to fall out of the,

out of the, he's not going to be the shiny new thing anymore. Yeah. Um, I thought all those are perfect. Those are great. I'm pretty excited to watch the quarterbacks run, honestly,

because there's some really good athletes, athletes in this. No, it's athletes. You got it. Athletes at the NFL combined. Um, this is just becoming, this is just progressively becoming a borrack.

It's throwing me off. My God. Put the wrong fastest on the wrong syllable. Um, Desmond Ritter from Cincinnati, apparently really good. Hyphen's just losing it. Sorry.

Desmond Ritter from Cincinnati, very good athlete. He could run in like the 4-4s, 4-5, so that'll be interesting. Mleek Willis. I read, I think, on the athletic, that he's like running in the 4-3s. We'll see if that happens, but...

No chance. But I would love to see it. I think there's a chance. Willis is not running 4-13. I can't believe that we're having these conversations. But I can't believe after all this talk that it's like, you're telling me that what matters for a good 40-yard dash time

is to get out of your stance properly for something you'll never do. It's pretty dumb. It's pretty dumb, but I'm still excited. Yes, and yet, and yet the two of them are like, ooh. Yeah, I know, right? This is the thing. But that's just to test well on something where what actually matters is your like seven to eight yard acceleration? So isn't that just the thing that should be measured? And it is. The 10 yard split is measured. We get 10 year split times. Metcalfrena 1,4-5 10-yard splits.

The greatest 10-yard split that ever exists is the history of mankind. But he did track too, didn't he? Like, don't you want a 10-yard split from like not a three-point stance? And so, right. And that's something that's been discussed. You get the 10, you get the 20 as well. And then you, so the 0 to the 20. And then you can, you can get 10 to 20, you know, distance from that. So you have zero to 10, you have zero to 20.

And then you get the flying 20, which is the last 20 yards, which is a measure of just like open speed, right? And you say, like, I want to know just how fast he moves, you know, 7 to 8 yards out of, out of a regular stance. We don't have that, but we have jumps. And again, these indicate your explosiveness on one step, your explosiveness on two steps. And so, yes, you can and should redesign the combine to make it better model what players do on the field. But this is how it's always been done. And we can compare it to historical data, which is helpful. And there's proxies for what you're talking about.

You want to, you want to know the perfect example of why this is so dumb, but we all still get really excited about this. You still got like 30 scouts on the sidelines fucking hand-timing these things. It's laser-timed at the fucking combine. They're hand-timing it with their own stopwatches. We're all so stupid. The numbers from the numbers from 1994 were hand-times. And so if these numbers aren't hand-timed, we can't compare them. I know.

So I think it's stupid. I would be remiss hyphids. If I don't bring this up, people, I'd be getting emails about this. It does matter how fast you run the 40 if you're a tight end. Just going to throw it out there. I'm excited to watch the tight ends run the 40. If you get tight ends running in the four-sixes, that's going to boost their stock. I just wanted to say that.

I feel like, I don't think anyone's disputing that speed doesn't matter. Speed matters. I just feel like the 40 is such a specific, weird event. I just can't believe that these are teams. These are organizations, companies that are all about practice the way you play. If we're going to play in Kansas City, it's going to be loud. We're going to pipe in fake crowd noise. If the Patriots are playing a team on the road and it's going to rain,

they just douse all the balls in like cold water for the whole week. And then these guys are like, or they have a left-footed punter come in. Yeah, they have a left-footed punter so that you get to spin on the left-footed punter, the way he punts. And then they're like, hmm, how fast is this guy? Let's have him start from a position

he'll literally never do ever again. Also not, why doesn't, shouldn't they wear pads? Aren't they in pads? Give him a football. It's a silly thing. It's a silly, silly,

it's a silly event. I can't wait. I'm also super excited about this. Like, you can see Solac and I were like, we're like, oh no, fuck,

fuck, fuck, no way. Malik Willis isn't running in the fourths. He's not running on the four threes. I want to see if I want to see if I can push Craig and Danny over the edge. All right. Are you right? So you got a hand time the 40. But you have to use your pointer finger on the button. You can't use your thumb. Are you shitting me? Are you serious? You have to hold it. You hold it straight elbow. Okay. And then you look down the line.

There's a technique like you're aiming at you. If you Google, if you Google Charlie Casselie timer meme or something like that, I don't know. Oh, I, it's my favorite part of the combine. Yes. And you can see he's got the elbow locked. Oh my God. He's got one eye closed. It's straight down. the line and then point her finger on the button. Wait. There's an opportunity here. There's an opportunity here. What we got to do is we right now have all these different scouts who hand time, but they

might have different techniques. So we should like combine all their techniques and measure who's the best at it. And we combine the combine. And we scout the scouts at the combine. Combine combined. Interesting. We have a combine for scouts at the combine. Or we could just use the electronic timers that are like to the hundredth of a

we just trust science. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who's to say? I see both sides. Trust science. All too on the nose, Craig. Taking your own stopwatch time is the version of, it's like the 20, it's like the football

version of I'm going to do my own research. Joe Rogan down there. No, not the thumb. Craig's when he's the thumb. It's the pointer finger. I actually get that. I feel like the pointer finger is more reactive than the thumb. The thumb is delayed.

You and Treg's too. research right now. God damn it. Oh, that is the dumbest thing. You want to get to some, all right, so we're going to be at the combine. I love the combined thing. I love that. Let's guess. Let's see if we can turn just one person we're hanging out with this week to like make I'm saying it all week. I'm saying it all week and seeing what people think. And never explaining why. Yes. Then if I combine.

Okay. So we're going to use some emails. We're going to have episodes for you later this week, but let's get to some emails. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So one from Mark from Portland. Mark. I have a question. Mark. Oh, yeah. Mark.

Mark. Mark. I have a question about what attributes the different spots on the offensive line are supposed to have. So what skills or attributes for different players make a team feel that a player is better suited to play center than they are to play guard or tackle? Or what is the difference between what makes a left tackle a left tackle and what makes a right tackle a right tackle? So, yeah. A lot's baked into this. So the first thing we have to ask is, are we running primarily zone?

We're running primarily gap, right? So if we're a Palestinian offense, we're running zone blocking, right? That's where we're sending the entire offensive line one direction. And they're running. They're getting on their horses and they're going, right? Outside zone. That's where you see lighter guys get dropped. Yeah.

And the other team, the other system blocks a person. Yeah. And that's where you see offensive linemen who are lighter get drafted because the lighter guys just move. 297 pounds. Garrett Bradbury, the center for the Vikings who ran that system as a perfect example. Most teams didn't have him round one. Vikings took him round one. Why? Don't care if he's $290. He can move.

And that's what we needed that position. On the other system, as Danny said, the gap system, power blocking system, man blocking system, all mean the same thing. We're blocking to create a hole in a specific gap, which means if there's a body in that gap, we got to move the body out of the gap. That's power, right? That's where we need guys

who can really chunk dudes over. And so that's going to define kind of where teams land. But in general, tackles need length and generally with length comes height you see your higher and longer bodies get put at tackle because they're not protected by anybody on their outside shoulder

so when those edge rushers come along that outside shoulder they have to be able to reach out and go get them they have to be able to get much deeper in their past sets they have to go and meet them so you need longer legs you generally see your longer taller bodies out at tackle guard and center are going to be a stock your body shorter body especially if you have a short quarterback back there you want guards

to be short as well so you can see over them and they're protected on both sides So they don't need to be as quick. You'd like for them to be more stout. You'd like to be guys who are going to get bull rushes from 300-pound defensive linemen, be able to drop their weight, drop their hips, sit down and anchor against that bull rush. You guys who are built more in the lower half, tackles more in the upper half, and it would be a little bit shorter, a little bit shorter arms.

Center, same basic thing. Just add on the fact that you'd like your center to be a smart cookie. Because for a lot of offenses, center's going to help set protection. He doesn't have to be the center, right? I mean, like, when the Cowboys had Travis Frederick had injured, they just had Zach Martin at guard setting protection because Martin's the man. But in general, you want your center to be that guy who's going to set protections to communicate with the quarterback. So that's an added little wrinkle for center.

In addition to all that, you probably mentioned, but like feet matter. You have to have very light feet, be able to move, be able to run a guy down the arc or whatever at tackle. And if you don't have fast enough feet or quick enough feet, generally speaking, that means a lot of teams are going to move you to guard. If you, yeah, if you hear during the combine that he play tackling college but he projects it guard in the NFL, it usually means he's not long enough or his feet aren't quick enough. enough. Some combination of those two things. So in terms of Evan Neal, because Evan Neal played a bunch of spots at Alabama, but that's also because Alabama is the best players so that, you can't, you can't just take over the tackle. So when they say there's a question about what he might play, for the number one pick,

what does that mean? Especially if he's not going to participate in some of these drills. It means he shouldn't be the number one overall pick. Yeah. I was a very, he's a very interesting one because I did think watching his tape, there is some issues with moving his feet and balance. And maybe, maybe he's, he's a very, he's a very He's a right tackle or a guard and not a left tackle. What is the most tantalizing thing about him? Why is he projected number one? He's 350 plus pounds and he's a very good athlete.

He's very huge. You can move people in the run game. He's a really solid, he's a really solid pass protector. But there is a question mark on, at least in my mind on, you know, can he move his feet quickly enough? And he loses his balance. He falls off blocks sometimes, things like that. I'm out.

I'm out on Nevin'neal. I know that we... Dude, he's 350 pounds. Have you seen the box? I don't want to repeat myself. Big. Because I feel like we talk about this in some form

in every episode. But the same way that we just did the, well, the 40-R dash, obviously doesn't matter, but the four or three, and I know exactly,

like I do the same thing. None of the descriptors you just used for him were promising, except he's big, but you're like, not good on his feet. He's an offensive lineman. His job is to not let Miles Garrett get behind him.

Like, isn't that like the main skill as being good on your feet? It's all relative, though. Like he's better than almost all the tackles in this draft class. But is he better than

Charles Cross at Pass Pro? Probably not. Nope, for instance. But he's big. So that's the question you have to answer. You have to answer that question. Who do you want to, you know, number one overall? This guy's played multiple positions on Alabama. He's a road grading run blocker who's pretty good at Pass Pro. None of these guys are

perfect, perfect prospects. That's what, you know, we talked about that. Like, a lot of these guys probably would be fifth or fourth or whatever in the position if they were in last year's draft. there you go. Okay, so thank you for that. Emails at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com if you have questions.

Send it on whatever. Serious, not serious. Love a mix of both. Ringer Fantasy Football at gmail.com. As you're watching the Combine, if you have any questions from the combine, email, yes, sorry, the combine. Email us about the combine at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com.

Also go to NFLDraft.orgia.com for these draft guide. Let's get to two jargons, one lie, America's favorite draft sentence. Yes. By the way, I was out last, I was out sick. I had the coronavirus last week. I'm better now.

Don't worry, everybody. Yay, Craig. Doing all right. I appreciated you guys not doing two jargons one line, my honor. Thank you. It would have felt wrong without you, mostly because it would have just been Hyphitz talking to himself. Nobody wants that.

We didn't want Hyphus just mumbling theories to himself. So yeah. All right. This is Combine Week. And for many, many years, Mike Mayock, the ex-general manager of Las Vegas Raiders, was the guy broadcasting now to Daniel Jeremiah.

And that's where Mayokisms really became a thing. So we're focusing on Mayakisms this week. One, or I guess there's two Mayokisms. One kind of sounds like a Mayokism. All right, we have Body Beautiful. Body beautiful? Body beautiful. Okay.

Alice in Wonderland. Oh, God. Dancing bear is real. It's got to be real. That's like what you want Evan Neal to be, but he's not. Right? It's a big guy who's good. That's my guess.

Damn it. I'm going. You know, Craig would explain to dance. dancing bear extremely fast for somebody who allegedly has never heard the term before. I'm just saying that was incredible. Body Beautiful and Alice in Wonderland? Yes. Alice in Wonderland must be just a funny saying they get lost on the field.

Yeah, they're in Fantasyland, you know. They're on, they're somewhere out. It's like the left fielder who's like picking data lines in Little League. Yeah. And then Body Beautiful kind of just makes me uncomfortable. I don't know. What's out of it? Yeah.

It's like they wanted to say beautiful body, but that sounded weird. I don't... The only reason why I think it's real is because I don't think... I don't think Ben would have made up body beautiful. Right. I would have not been able to swallow the incorrect grammar. The adjective after the noun. So do we think Mayock's a big Alice in Wonderland guy?

No, I think Alice in Wonderland is fake. I think Body Beautiful's... Oh, no, you're... No, Body Beatles is fake. That's what I'm going with. All right, so what were the official... Craig said Allison Wonderland is fake. Hyphen said body beautiful.

Craig remains undefeated. Has not gone one wrong yet. Okay, so Dancing Bear, which I honestly, I thought that was the hook. I thought that was going to get you with that one. Craig is exactly correct. When we talk about really big guy who's really agile, that's a, that's Dacy Bear out there. Yep. Which I guess, yeah, we had that whole conversation like right beforehand.

Probably wasn't great for me. Body Beautiful, I included, because I don't, I don't know why. They, like, just say he's ripped. Ben, like, what's the difference between being? body beautiful and having tight skin. So tight skin, right, you can't add any more weight as we learned. But on NFL.com,

2016, their article on naeochisms, body beautiful, a ripped physique that even the other players talk about. I don't know why he can't just say like he's got, he's got a great build, he's got a great body, just looks great, he's jacked.

Nope, body beautiful for some reason. So are we talking like Hunter Renfro here? Yeah, yeah, definitely Hunter Renfro. The punters and the kickers, body beautiful. And then, yeah, Allison Wonderland is made up, but very good book. I can definitely see that being something, though.

Like, the guy's just wandering around. Just, you know. Yeah, yeah. It sounded real, which is the, that's the objective. So, tight skin's, like, good frame, but negative. And this is, well, tight skin is just like, rip, but very positive. Tight skin is like, all right, he's 205,

and he's always going to be 205. Yeah. Body Beautiful is like, you remember Sean Oakley when he came out of Baylor? Do you guys, everybody should Google Sean Oakley. Yeah, yeah. Sean Oakley was Body Beautiful. Oakman. Oakman, Sean Oakman.

She said, everybody should Google, Sean Oakman, Baylor, I think it was 2014. Yeah, he was insane physically. Yeah. Like Tony Mandervich. Could not play football worth a lick, but baby was he body beautiful. Yeah. I feel like I just would draft all the guys who like don't are not impressive in any of these things. And that just would work because they got here.

Ah, the Hunter Renfro theorem. Yeah, exactly. This is like going against like the Al Davis thing. Yeah, Al Davis wanted your team, wanted his teams to win getting off the bus. You ever heard that expression? Yeah, yeah. Like you get off the bus, you're like, God damn, we have to play these guys.

That's not fun. High Fitz's team would just be like, everyone overestimates us and therefore we win. Incredible. Okay. Well, this podcast is Body Beautiful. It's Pottie beautiful. Come on.

Come on. Come on. I liked it. I liked it. I, okay. Gross. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, So, like. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, everyone.

for just churning through that last minute or two. My God, that must have been a journey. Thank you to everyone who Googled Sean Oakman. Sean Oakman, whatever you're up to. I hope, I hope everything's going all right with you. Thank you, Lorne. Lord. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you, Joaquin Phoenix. Uh, thank you, Wachian Phoenix. I want to get Hyphitz to say this name again. I was just thinking about this again. He's not a musician. Oh, he absolutely is a musician. He's an actor. Does he do music? He did the soundtrack to Walk Hard. Oh, he was, sorry, not walk the line. He was Johnny Cash. Walk hard the Dewey Jonesy Riley

Walk hard It's like die hard But you don't want any of this shit A Dewey Cox story You know I got my wires crossed there But yes you know what I was talking about He's a good singer Hyphen say his name

I'm not saying the name Say his name I just wanted him to say Say his name Why can't Hyatt say Joaquin Because I never remember That's great question Ben Joaquin Phoenix

Oh that wasn't that hard Gotta believe When we were all together in L.A., we recorded in person in Hife, it's called him Zhwakin? Like Joaquin? Like Joe Akeem Noah? He called him Jacqueswin. Yeah, kind of. This is, this is the

progressive commercial, or no, maybe it's a different insurance company, right? Where they're trying to teach the adults how to not be adults, they have insurance. Yeah, that's right. The name is literally, it's the word is quinoa, and the guy is very boldly says Joaquin. And Hyvitz is the exact opposite of that guy. He just blew right through it, too.

He was like, yeah, I mean, the Joker with Joaquin Phoenix. Great movie. Love it. Confidently called him Joaquin. High cinema. Yeah. Those progressive commercials about becoming your parents. Those are good.

The most true thing that's ever happened to me. All right. No more parking lot, talk. Let's not talk about leaving the game before we actually get that. No, cussing. No. Did you just change your blade back there? This thing is.

This thing is cut perfectly. Can you imagine amount of money they bring in and parking at you? Pulls to the left a little bit Oh god Are we old now if we are enjoying Insurance commercials And that's what it means like commercials Well that's the other thing

With the halftime show They're like wow Dre and Snoop Dogg Finally a cool halftime show It's like they used to just be for old people And it's like oh Wow Looks

Those guys are All right That's what we got Wait DK Oh no that was the band I don't know you feel about that Kind of cool Go watch walk the line

It's a good movie. Or walk hard. Walk hard. Rock hard. Yeah. Goodbye everyone.