The Ringer NFL Show - The Running Backs We’d Overpay For

Episode Date: June 28, 2021

We break down the running backs outside of the top 10 that we are most intrigued about heading into the 2021 fantasy season.  Chris Carson, Seahawks (1:24) Antonio Gibson, Washington (6:52) Austin Ekeler, Chargers (11:27) Myles Gaskin, Dolphins (18:03) Trey Sermon, 49ers (23:07) Javonte Williams, Broncos (27:17) Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Chiefs (30:12) Travis Etienne, Jaguars (35:40) Gus Edwards, Ravens (44:19) Zack Moss, Bills (48:09) Mike Davis, Falcons (52:03) Darrell Henderson, Rams (57:41) Check out our new top 150 half-PPR 2021 fantasy rankings here! Email us: [e-mail]. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The postseason is here and the Ringer NBA show has you covered with real ones, group chat, the answer, and Ringer NBA post game. Check out the Ringer NBA show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hyfitz and I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlebeck. We've done a series of shows on our top targets for 2021. Well, I did some of them. I was gone for some.

You guys have done all of them. Yeah. We're mostly looking at just players we love for this year or just values we love. Today we're going to talk about running backs, but not the first round, because we kind of did that already. And if you want to hear about the first pick or first running first round running backs, you can hear that from a few weeks ago. But today we're going to look at like better values later in drafts. And again, these are just dudes we just really like.

So without further ado, right off the top. D.K., give us a running back, your top target at running back for 2021. So I don't know if it's my overall number one top target, but I think Chris Carson right now is looking like a big value. Craig's just rolling his eyes. He's rolling his eyes. Is this going to be the whole year? Just you talk about the Seahawks and Craig talks about the Rams? Yes, I think so.

It's, you know, it's going to be part of my bit. But really, I do think that the overall Seahawks offense is being undervalued by, because of what happened in the second half of last year. We'll get to that in a second. But first, I just want to break down Chris Carson. So clearly and easily Seattle's most talented, most trusted. Like Pete Carroll trusted with his life. And highest paid running back, by the way.

His life? To me that all. He trusts him with his life? but perhaps not the football. Chris Carson fumbles a lot to trust him with his life. That's, so that's exactly what I was going to say is even during Carson's infamous fumble spate last year, Pete Carroll stuck with him. Like, even the media was like, okay, dude, it's time to bench this guy.

He's clearly got, you know, the yips or something. Something's happening. And Pete Carroll's like, no, we trust him. Was this last year or the year before? I can't remember. Two years. Regardless. Time is gone.

Doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, I don't know. I have no concept of. it anymore. But regardless, he clearly has Pete Carroll's dress. And going back even further, like, he was Pete Carroll's guy in the draft. According to the stories that we heard after the draft, Pete Carroll got to pick one of two seventh round picks that year. The two picks they picked in that round were David Moore and Chris Carson. And Chris Carson was like Pete Carroll's pick. He liked the guy for whatever reason. Are you saying the Seahawks picked players the way like you'll pick

car, you'll pick songs with your friend in the car like, oh, I'll cue one and then you cue one. They just, that's how they do it. So I think that maybe in the seventh round, there's certainly like a aspect of, you know, letting coaches have some input throughout the draft. I think in the seventh round, there's a lot of things that go into it. Like, you know, positions that you think you're not going to be able to get in undrafted free agency because you drafted two or three guys. Like, say you draft two or three wide receivers in the draft, you're not going to get probably

many undrafted free agents at the receiver position because agents are going to be like, hey, look, they're already drafted two guys. You're going to have to beat out these rookies, not to mention the other guys. So sometimes you use those seventh round picks to take positions. You're not going to get an undrafted free agency. Other times, I really don't think teams values seven-th round picks as much as like maybe fans do. And so in this case, it just felt like Schneider was like, hey, man, we got seven guys all kind of rated around the same. Who do you want? And Carol was probably like, give me Carson, baby. Want that guy. He actually was really good as the seventh round rookie.

So why are you high on a issue? He came in and was like better than Rashad Penny, the first round pick. Of course, Penny's been hurt. And by the way, is now going, he just had a, Rashad Penny just had a knee scope. So that's kind of an issue that could potentially, if not cause him to miss time, you know, potentially, you know, just might not mean he's super healthier.

He's as explosive as we're hoping and, you know, whatever. It's just one of those things where it's always something with Penny. It's not great. It looks like Carson's going to be the guy for sure this year. He's going to be their leadback. And looking back on the last couple seasons, he's actually been really consistent on a per game basis. In half PPR, he's finished 14th, 13th, and 14th.

In half PPR points per game over the last three seasons, respectively. Currently, he's going as the RB20 in half PPR drafts. So, or actually, RB19, I guess he went up over the weekend. To me, that just looks like a. really good value. People are, again, maybe looking at what happened last year with the CX offense, you know, that's just recency bias. Despite the fact that the CX offense has been good, basically, in the entire time Russell Wilson's been a quarterback, they've been efficient and explosive and score a lot of points. So, I don't know, I still think he's going to be the lead back there.

I think he's seen his role in the passing game increase over the last few years each year. And I think it could happen again this year with Shane Waldron. I mean, we saw how often the Rams got Todd Gurley involved in the passing game. Maybe that means Carson's going to get more screenplays, things like that. So I don't know. I'm just bullish on Chris Carson, I'm bullish on the CX offense in general, at least certainly being more effective than people seem to be, like, rating them.

Carson is one of those guys where I think he's properly rated. I think where we have him, we have him currently at 16th. I think that is kind of perfect in what D.K. outlined like 13th, 14th, 14th, whatever. Like, he just is that. He's going to be that. I mean, I think what you basically have to understand when you draft Chris Carson,

and I'm looking at his, like, game log or whatever. Like, he's essentially misses three to four games a season, but in the games he plays, he's like a low-end RB1. So it's like, are you willing to pay the tax? He'll be fine. The odds of him playing 16 full games and getting 300 carries is unlikely. He only had 141 carries in 12 games last year. But when he touches the ball, he's good.

So I don't think he should be like a first round guy or a top 12 guy, but I think, yeah, 14, 15, 16th, it's probably right. But you mean 16th among running backs or 16th overall? Among running back, sorry. So, like, mid-30s, basically. Yeah. I feel like that is, yeah, he's like the staple mid-30s guy. Okay.

So can I toss out another dude for you guys? Sure. Yes. That was a dumb question. You sound funny. This is an interesting way of setting the play, but yes, go ahead. So, okay. Well, really I'm just nervous to talk about this guy because I'm going to get it shit on from

D.K. So I like Antonio Gibson from Washington, which is really fucked up because I think I was the most anti-Antonio Gibson dude last year. And D.K. loved him. And I was like, I wasn't just like, disagree. I kind of was really smug about it and was just like, oh, wait for me to be wrong. And then you were right, which kind of sucked. You played the odds. No, Hyfitz. Like, you had a great shot. Here's the deal. Antonio Gibson had like more carries in his first like three NFL games or something than he did his entire career at Memphis. So I just didn't think that was going to happen. But it did. And he was basically a wide receiver. who is cosplaying as a running back,

and I'm like, well, maybe he'll get third down work. He won't get first and second down. Plot twist. He got first and second down and not third down. That was wild. Didn't see that coming. But here's what's wild is that he's probably going to get more third down work this year. So he's like a sneaky three-down candidate.

Because here's the thing, J.D. McKissick, did he have the most running back targets last year? I believe he did. He led all running backs and targets, which is crazy. Jady McKissick, who is actually kind of a fun player to watch, also kind of boring, but like he's not, as D.K would say, a jag. He's just a guy.

Like, he had 10 times as many third down snaps as Antonio Gibson did last year, 10 times the snaps. But now the Washington coaches are saying they're going to get Gibson the ball more on third downs. They like how Gibson's running routes. So Gibson, whose skill is receiving is probably way in line for way more work. And I just think that he's a really good value. He's like kind of going to like mid-20s. I think I'd be fine with taking him in like the middle of the teens and not among running backs overall. Like I can see him taking him on some of like the best.

receivers, I kind of would rather have him. I think he could be a monster. My only issue is he's like dealing with turf till right now, so like that sucks. So hopefully it's not a thing in August. But I really like Antonio Gibson this year. Middle of the teens, so if you look at our rankings, our middle of the teens is Calvin Ridley 14, DeAndre Hopkins 15, Travis Kelsey 17. So you think he belongs in there?

I guess late. I mean, you're probably not going to take him over Kelsey. But like, yeah, I think you could round out the round with him there, absolutely. Here's my one fear. It's J.D. McKissick. You're only, you're not afraid. you're not afraid of anything else other than something involving Antonio Gibson. Every night I go to sleep and I go,

aren't you afraid of coffee? I'm not afraid of coffee. You're afraid of caffeine. Listen, my tolerance is low, so caffeine kind of messes me up. There's nothing wrong with that. That's a fear of being out of control, but we'll deal with that another day. We'll do that save that for fantasy therapy. Let's dig deep in that.

I enjoy alcohol, so explain that. Okay. Here's my thing. JD McKissick is kind of like he's Theoretic there's been a lot of these guys in the past right They just don't go away James White They just don't go away What have you ever heard about the Theoretic

Just no longer getting snaps McKissick will have 50 catches this year And he will limit Antonio Gibson's ceiling Because coaches love to do that And they love these guys And I don't know why But the Darren Sproles The James Whites the theoretics

I'm nervous that McKissick is going to be playing Way more than all of us want and like week four we're bitching about it. No, I think that's fair. I think the one thing to keep in mind is I'm, I don't know about you guys. I think Washington might have the best defense in the NFL this year, at least in the conversation.

I think Chase Young's defensive player of the year odds are like really stupidly, like low or high. I don't know what you think about odds. You can make a lot of money from the Chase Young defensive player of the year odds. Like this is a team that in theory might be running more than you think for a Ryan Fitzpatrick led team in the second half of games. So I don't know.

I think there's going to be a lot of work for, I think there's going to be a lot of work for Gibson. My one concern is that guys, you come in with like a receiving wide receiver profile getting a lot of work doesn't always work out like you know what i mean it's kind of like a nitty he's not he's not built like chris carson i'll put it that way but other than that i live gibson so what how many targets do you think you would circle for him so last year gibson had 44 targets which ranked 25th among running backs um for reference josh jacobs who famously never gets targets had 45 targets um i would probably say yeah

Pencil of them in for, I don't know, 60 targets? I think he doubles both his numbers. He had 36 catches and 44 targets. I think he doubles both those things. I think he hits 80 targets? Yeah, 90 targets and like, you know, messes around with 80 catches. If he messes around with 80 catches,

then I think he's... Well, again, think about it. To Craig's point, to wrap this all in a bow, McKissick out-snapped him on third down, 10 to 1. McKissick doesn't have to go away. If that's five to five, go half and half.

He can dump, like, it's really, in play. That's true. Okay. Craig, who do you got? Um, so kind of sticking with these guys that are towards the top of the, maybe the second tier guys, Austin Echler this year, uh, I'm really into, I loved him the year he went off in 2019 and we kind of didn't know what was going on last year because it was Tyrod Taylor or the Herbert. We didn't know. They drafted Josh Kelly. But this year, I think he's back. And the charges have really seen a lot of change over the last two seasons. Obviously, they fell into Justin Herbert being awesome. But I mean, they got rid of Melvin Gordon.

They've traded and drafted for a brand new offensive line. They fired Anthony Lynn. They brought in Brandon Staley. They have a new offensive coordinator and Joe Lombardi. Like, everything's different. They could look like a completely different team in 2021. And if you look at Echler's points per game in the last three years, last year he was 14th in points per game, which I feel like kind of went undersold.

I mean, he had a pretty gnarly hamstring injury that he came back from pretty quickly and was still really good. in the year before that, he was seventh in points per game in 2019, and that was splitting time with Melvin Gordon, who was a little hurt that year. But in eight full games with Herbert in 2020, Echler saw 63 targets.

So I think like the worry of like, oh, you know, he had all the targets with Phil Rivers without Phil, like, how's it going to be? I mean, he saw eight a game with Justin Herbert. So I really don't think that's going to be a worry. And Joe Lombardi's already compared him to Camara at Reggie Bush and Sproles. So I think he's going to step right into that kind of

of philosophical role that Lombardi likes with his running backs and you know even if he only saw 12 carries a game like he kind of usually does I mean that's 200 carries and if he sees 100 targets I mean he's gonna be right up there and like you know the best opportunity touches compared to any

other running back and the Chargers don't have a ton of mouths to feed to be honest I think that's like the weird underrated everyone's all in on this offense but like if this offense is going to be great Evan Silva said it could be a top five scoring offense in the league who's scoring like someone's going to have to score a ton touchdowns for this to happen.

Yeah. And I think Echler could really benefit from them. Can I play devil's advocate? Sure. Well, actually, let me raise up. You love playing devil's advocate. Why do you ask? No, I actually don't.

We got an email from Jack who wants to play devil's advocate, who's a Lions fan. And Jack basically wrote that, Shadow Jack, that Lombardi was the Lions offensive coordinator. Everyone's like, oh, Stafford's going to be unlocked with the same style offense. And then, like, he was fine. He had the worst QBR since he was a rookie. And, like, the numbers were okay. every Lions fan wanted the

Joe Lombardi to be fired from coordinator and then he was midseason the next year they dropped like seven of eight and he was and the numbers don't really bear that out but like the point is it was kind of a boring offense like I'm curious DK what you think the charged offense looks like with Joe Lombardi

because like I get they fired Anthony Land and it kind of had to because of all the coaching mistakes that were made but should we just assume Herbert gets better with a new staff, new offense to everything? You know I don't think we can. We can't necessarily just assume that will happen I will say

I think people are capable of change I think people are capable of getting getting better Are you fucking What are we doing today? Are we doing fantasy therapy right now? Hi, Vincent's don't you think people can get better? Okay, Craig, go ahead.

Well, okay, I'm looking at Joe Lombardi was the offensive coordinator from 2014 to 2015 on the Lions surrounding that small two-year span he has basically been on the Saints since 2007. He was an offensive assistant, then the quarterbacks coach, and for the last five seasons, he's been the quarterbacks coach. So, I mean, he's been on the Saints working on the offense

on what has been one of the best offensive in the last decade. So, like, I don't know if one shitty lion's year is enough for me to be like, well, no, that's fair. Well, first of all, just way to just shit on Jack from somewhere in Detroit. I'm not, sorry, Joe. No, no, but I think that to your point, though. I don't think we're not shitting on Jack. No, I'm just simply saying.

I might be shitting on Jack. You cannot necessarily, you can't necessarily just say, oh, he was bad that year or two, year and a half, therefore he sucks. I mean, I think it's possibly sex. Can I tweak Jack's email? Can I tweak Jack's email? No. Drew Breeze and Herbert have, like, nothing in common.

Because Drew Breeze is just like high IQ can hit the, you know, the keyhole on the doorknob. You call it Herbie low IQ? Okay, that's, I think technically I did. That's not what I bet. The point is that Drew Breese doesn't have a big arm, but he just peppers the middle of the field and is throwing swing passes and it's about IQ and reading the defenses and just taking it in chunks. Herbert's a gun. He's not doing middle of the field dips and he's ripping things to the sideline and downfield. They're just different kind of quarterback. So I don't think necessarily

it'll be like it'll look like a Drew Bree's offense. That's all I'm trying to say. It's different quarterbacks. The coach has to bring the skill set. He has to bring out the best in his player's skill sets. I think overall I have a open mind about it. I'm cautiously optimistic because I believe that Herbert's going to be good. The other thing that I think is interesting, and I hadn't really thought about this too much, but, you know, Brandon Staley coming over from the Rams is clearly known as a defensive mastermind. That's why he got hired.

He's going to be, you know, he's going to change that defense, going to be. And what he did with the Rams was like, you know, awesome. Revolutionary, maybe you could even call it. But Staley was a college quarterback. He was a quarterback. So he comes from an offensive background. Now, I don't know how big of an impact that's going to have on this offense or this team, but I would just say Staley's not your typical defensive head coach, if that makes sense,

because he's a former quarterback. So I think that's going to be interesting. I have an open mind about Lombardi. We'll see how it all goes. I think that per Jack's email, that is actually a good sort of like sober reminder that, you know, sometimes these guys that we're super excited about don't end up being what we thought they were going to be. So keep that in mind. But yeah, what I would say overall like Echler, back to the circle back on Echler, I think absolutely has a great chance of just going off this

year. And the way that they use him in the passing game, especially in half PPR and PBR, like he's going to be so valuable because of that. Also, the year that Lombardi got fired on the Lions, Theoretic had 80 catches that year. Boom. He never goes away. Boom. Boom. Oh, that's pretty good. So yeah. I guess my question would be just overall, like, do you We had this talk on the ringer NFL show. Do you think that the Chargers are going to be a good team?

Just that's the question. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Okay. I mean, you're on the Chargers. Back up. What am I going to say? Yeah, yeah, wait.

Are you just... A little biased. Are you just gassing up your coach? That's what's just gassing up your running back here. Okay. Dekha, who's the next few? Okay, so another guy, I think that is a pretty good value right now is Miles Gaskin from Miami.

I love this one. I have no idea what to think about Miles Gaskin. Yeah. So, I think that... you know, there's a, there's a bias against him or there's some doubt around him. I get that because he's only really done it for one year. Former, I think he was undrafted or if he wasn't, he was like a seventh rounder. So late round, undrafted type guy. Seventh round. Seventh round, okay. And so I think there's people definitely just still doubting whether he's

going to be the guy, you know, that they'd lean on. But if we're looking at last year, same coaching staff more or less. You know, they have new offensive quartered or new play caller situation going on, but same head coach. He was definitely their guy last year. He was the RB12 in half PPR points per game,

14.4. And right now he's being drafted as the RB24. So seems like pretty good value. And he's going to get the volume that we're always chasing in fantasy. He's, you know, ninth in snap rate last year. So he was getting almost 70% of the snaps. in that backfield.

He was sixth in target rate on the year behind only Sequin Barclay, who only played one game, Camara, Makisic, Echler, and James White. He averaged 4.7 targets per game.

So he's getting that valuable passing game usage. And after taking over as the leadback in week three for the Dolphins, he averaged 15.6 rush attempts per game, which is pretty solid,

honestly, especially in the NFL today, for some context. Jonathan Taylor averaged 15.4 rushes per game. Nick Chubb, 15.8 rushes per game.

Aaron Jones, 14.3 rushes per game. So he's not like, you know, Derek Henry, 23.6 rushes per game where you're just getting the bell cow roll. But 15 rush attempts,

4.7 targets per game, that's really good volume. So that's what we're chasing. And I don't know for sure if he's going to continue to get that kind of volume. But that's like, I guess that's why he's depressed in value right now.

With all of my heart decay, I want to agree with you. But like, I really thought about putting Miles Gaskin in the 40s, like when we did our first round of rankings, because I'm like, he's going to be the guy. Here's the problem with me. Like, Miles Gaskin's good. Like, he should have been a higher draft pick. Like, he's a good player. He played, well, he was good at Washington, too, yeah.

But when the lines cut Kerry on Johnson and he went to the Eagles, the Eagles claimed him off waivers. The dolphins had the second waiver claim on him, which makes me think they're going to sign a veteran back, which is upsetting. So, like, as of right now, that's what I'm saying. As of right now, June 28th, I agree with what you're saying. I just am dubious that August 30th, Todd Gurley or someone won't be signed. And at that case, the whole Gaskin argument screwed because that was just a talented guy with an ambiguous situation.

But, like, otherwise, I'd agree with you, but I think they're going to sign someone. That's still an option. That's still clearly something that could happen. I think I heard over the weekend that Gurley is planning on signing with the Ravens. We'll see if that comes to fruition or not. But I think at the end of the day, though, is a guy that's signing in June or July or August

going to come in and be the starter? Or is he just going to be like a camp body who could be depth or whatever? I mean, this guy was their starter last year. Who was, what, no, when, no, the, sorry, the Texans, I mean, I guess I shouldn't compare anyone

to Bill O'Brien, but they traded like third rounder for Duke Johnson. Right. And then like, I don't know if it's three weeks later, three months later, they just signed Carlos Hyde off of waivers and then just played him. Carlos Hyde is just a killer everywhere he goes. Yeah.

He's like the theoretic, but of the running Kerry's guy. Yeah. So I'd say there's, okay, that's the reason and there are several reasons why I think Gaskin's going lower than he probably should be. And I understand that. I think that's fair. We don't know exactly how he's, how much is going to be used this year.

I think his, his target rate could decline because now they've got Fuller, Waddle, sounds like they're trying to stretch the field more, be more vertical passing offense, less dump offs, fewer dumpoffs. That kind of thing could certainly impact what, uh, Gaskins. overall production and value. So I understand that. However, I still think the gap between where he's being drafted

and where he's probably going to end up being as a producer is pretty wide. So that's why I would just say he's a good value. He's somebody I'm going to be targeting a draft slot because I think people are just discounting what he did last year. So I'm looking at Fantasy Pros.

He's going around 60th overall. Where do you think he, if no one gets signed, like he's just the only guy in the backfield, no Todd Gurley, no nothing, where do you think he should go? He's going 60th right now. So hold on. What are you looking at? Because I'm looking at half PPR on fantasy pros.

He's at 50. I'm looking at expert consensus on fantasy pros. Oh, okay. I'm looking at ADP. So there's a 10 spot difference between ADP and consensus and ranking, I guess. I just don't like, I don't like ADP this time. Who's doing drafts in June? That's a good point. People like D.K. You know, you can't go off that.

So let's just play the name game. Would you rather have Gaskin or Rahim Mostert? Gas. Okay, well now I'm just going to, I'm just going to jump ahead right now because one of the guys I had here was Trey Sermon. Trey Sermon, he was a third rounder. The Niners traded up to draft Trey Sermon. And obviously the Shanhan running backs is a whole, it's like a lifestyle. It's like the Shandhan running backs. Like all the guys they turned into fantasy superstars. And the question is just who's going to get the Niners carries? But here's the thing, it's usually it's a whole mess. This year I feel like it's not quite as difficult.

It's like Jeff Wilson has an knee injury. He's out for like six months. Rehomaster already has a knee injury. Like, it's like light, but like he's already, I'll see if that's the thing in camp. But like, that kind of matters for a guy who just seems to always kind of have some lower body injuries. And then Kevin Coleman's gone. And so you just got Wayne Galman and they traded up to get Tray Sermon who, I mean, you tell me, Dika, isn't the Ohio State running scheme kind of similar to the like that outside zone like one cut slash runner? Like, Tray Sermon seems like a pretty good style. They traded up to get him.

I feel like. So as much as I like Rahim Moster, he's a really nice. He's a good story, but I feel like Sermon's the starter. I actually would take Gaskin. And that's also a plug for I like sermon. That's one of my top targets. Yeah, I know.

I get that. I think that, you know, and we're going to do this episode, I think, later in the off season when we get closer to the season, but like the unclear backfields,

the muddy backfields is such a good opportunity to, you know, find value at the running back position. I think right now we really just don't know. I think Mosterd is still going to get his carries, assuming he's healthy. because he's an explosive element.

He's definitely different styled than Trace Sermon. So maybe they're going to do like a thunder and lightning type thing with Mostert who is legit world-class speed. And then Trace Sermon, who's more of like a grinder, break tackles, you know, he's a big back. And Hifers, like he said, when he finally kind of got in tune with the offense at Ohio State after transferring there, he started to kind of like pick it up halfway through the season. Then he, down the stretch, man, he went off.

He was carrying that offense. And so I'm sure that's why the 49ers, like, we got to get this guy. We're trading up. I think they gave up two fourth-round picks to move up to get him. So clearly they had him as a guy that they really wanted in this offense. So I actually, you know, I like Trace Serman. I think I'm starting to come around and be higher on him than I was originally going through these because I thought, oh, they'll probably lead on Moster. But Mosterd is like one of the most unreliable guys, you know, main type running back.

in the NFL right now. You just don't know what you're going to get from him. So I really do like the Mooster one. Right now he is, or not sorry, I like the Serman one. And I think that he's probably going lower right now still. I think the Sermon thing is great. I love Sermon. He's, when I made my little rookie running back rankings,

he's my number two behind Naji. I really do think at the end of the year he's going to be the second best rookie running back. I mean, like the Niners notoriously don't, Shanahan's Niners notoriously don't, you running backs. Like they don't, they think they're all the same. But so it's kind of telling

if they trade it up, this is the highest they've ever taken a running back in the Shanahan era. I think it means something. And he's really good and everybody else has hurt all the time. I don't think it'd be a shock of like he was getting 15 to 18 carries a game

in like week 15. I don't know. I guess it just depends on how quickly he can pick up the offense and pass block and all the stuff like that. But I think it's a great pick, Hyphitz. Can I throw out another rookie running back at you guys? Very similar conversation.

Please do. Javante Williams for the, Broncos. It's kind of the same story. The Broncos traded up to get him. Except the difference is Trace Serman for the Niners was a third rounder. The Broncos traded up to the 35th pick for Giovante Williams. That's basically the first rounder. Yeah. He's a first rounder. And he's being drafted like, I don't know, somewhere around like the 70s. Like Melvin Gordon is like obviously a way bigger name. And I think that that's a part of the reason like it's a little hard to rank a rookie over Melvin Gordon. Melvin Gordon, the people who signed Melvin Gordon in their

contract are gone. John Elway is not running the team anymore. He's there, but he's not running the team. George Payton's the new GM. He didn't sign Melvin Gordon. Melvin Gordon's 28. He's a history of a bunch of injuries. And like, he's a free agent after this year. And then the new GM comes in, doesn't care about Melvin Gordon, trades up basically uses a first round pick in Chavante Williams. And I think this is going to, Javanti Williams, I think is going to start in week one. I think he's going to be at least a two down back. Melvin, I don't think he's a three down back. I do think Melvin Gordon will have a role. But like, I don't see any, and also Philip Lindsay is gone. He's on the Texans.

I don't see any reason that Javante Williams doesn't have a big role. I think it's just a little scary to put, I don't know, maybe the second best running back from UNC Chapel Hill in the draft, like in the top 60 or so. But like at the end of the season, he's just one of those guys that just seems like a good candidate to be way higher up than he's being taken right now. Like I have no problem with him as a top 60 pick. He's like 75th right now. So I'm looking at ADP.

He's 107th, according to what I'm looking at. And he's going behind. He's the RV. ADP? Who's drafting right now? I think we should use the consensus thing. I mean, there's best ball. It's best ball stuff.

Oh, best ball ADP? That's even wilder thing, actually. You know, so this is a combination of Yahoo, fan tracks, and FFC. So who knows what, where you're drafting? It could vary, you know, dramatically. But, like, according to what I'm looking at on Fantasy Pros, it's, he's going behind guys like James Connor and Zach Moss and Devin Singletary, which I think is a bit wild. And I, I 100% agree with you about.

this one because I think, and I even saw, I'm pretty sure, Beat Rider for the Denver Post, Ryan O'Halloran, I think he predict, I could be getting this wrong. No, he said this. I pretty sure he predicted that he's going to be the starter to start the season. So, you know, I don't know. I think this is great. I think right now, especially if you're drafting early, go get this value because he's probably going to shoot up draft boards and ADP by the time we get to August and it's becoming more clear. I think that he's going to be the guy. He's really good, really elusive guy. Like you said,

they traded up to get him. His passing down work is the big question mark. But I still think where he's going, like that doesn't matter. Like, you're still getting really good value, even if he's only an early down grinder and goal line guy.

So, yeah, I like this one a lot. I think I almost put him on my list. So I completely agree with you. Okay, so I like Javante. I like Trey Sermen.

Craig, you got another guy? Yeah, I'm going to shoot back up the draft board a little bit. I want to talk about Clyde Edwards I lair Oh last year's rookie de Jure

Yes Who we all talked ourselves We were a little too high Yeah a little too high on him Is this like the cautionary tale For the conversation we just had I think there's some We should do a post type super episode

Down the road But he is firmly in that category for me Listen I don't think Yeah but Javante Williams Isn't going in the first round type it That's a good point Not like fifth Yet

Like Clyde was like legit going fifth but I don't think the spirit of the argument it was wrong so like Clyde last year I mean he wasn't amazing he was the RB 23 in points per game so he was a low end RB2 he was fine like actually watching the games he wasn't bad by any means like he had some good games he was decently productive he could catch like he was fine I think the usage was probably the biggest problem because he's on the chiefs and it's difficult it was all over the place last year he had three games

with under nine rushing attempts and he had three games with over 20 rushing attempts. So like he was completely all over the place. But much like the Chargers, the Chiefs completely revamped their O-line. They got Kyle Long,

Joe Thune, Orlando Brown after getting, you know, the O-line was the narrative after the Super Bowl. They patched that up after the bucks ran all over them and blitz the shit out of him or sorry, didn't blitz a shit out of him,

but just four rushers were able to get to my homes. So I guess what I'm asking is, is it possible that he sees more work than he did as a rookie? I would say yes, there's no Levion Bell, which is kind of big. If you look at pre-Levon Bell stats for Clyde, he averaged 18 carries a game and five targets a game. That's pretty fucking good.

After Levion Bell, 10 carries a game and three targets a game. Well, Levion's gone. Damien Williams, who I know opted out last year, but he's gone. So their only backup is Derell Williams, and I think he is a backup. So, like, you know, Clyde's going in the RB 15, 16, 17 range right now. I think people are still going to be maybe turned off to that because of what he did last year. But I actually think that's kind of a good value.

I mean, he's going around guys like J.K. Dobbins and Dandrie Swift. And I think Clyde has way more of a chance of, like, dominating his team's rushing totals than those two guys. I mean, obviously, JK's going up against Lamar and Swift is going up against Jamal Williams and he's going to be on a bad Lions team. Like, is there a chance? Even if the chiefs don't change their philosophy and they throw a million times a game,

what they were doing pre-Levi on Bell I think is very possible and if that's the case, I think he's like a top 12 to 14 guy. So I'm looking at the fantasy consensus rankings right now. Clyde is going, Clyde's ranked on fantasy pros. Clyde is ranked 32nd.

Chris Carson's ranked 34th. Who would you rather have? I think Clyde? Yeah, I think I'd go for the, I think Clyde too. let me check. Mr. Chris Carson himself. Yeah, well, I think you're chasing the upside and you're chasing the offense that he's in. And yes, I do have Clyde rank slightly higher than Chris Carson in my rankings.

I just confirmed that. So my instincts were correct. But yeah, I think I like this one a lot because I think it is sort of like the post type sleeper type deal where he's going to be closer to what we thought he was going to be last year. I'm not saying he's going to be, I don't know now if he has like the overall top three. potential that I think a lot of people were visualizing when they were taking him in the first round last year. But I think he, I think we saw like the floor of what he was going to do last year.

And it's going to be much, he's going to be much more ingrained in the offense. Again, remember, like these guys came in and didn't have an offseason, all that stuff, all those caveats apply. And now they don't, now he doesn't have as much competition for,

for carries, all that stuff. I think he's probably going to get more use in the passing game. Again, like Sammy Watkins is gone. it's just funneling everything through I think the offense will funnel through Kelsey Hill and CEH in terms of the passing game so yeah

I mean I like this one a lot I still think the upside is there you're going to be in an offense that's scoring a shitload of touchdowns so yeah I mean that's ultimately what you're going for right is upside you chase volume not skill not saying he doesn't have skill but like there are the running backs for Jerich McKinnon and Dorel Williams

it's also the chiefs it's the Kansas City Chiefs It's a starting running back for the Chiefs. We talked a lot last year at this time about Andy Reid's running backs throughout the course of Andy Reed's history as a coach and how typically over the years they've been really, really good in fantasy. You go back to the Brian Westbrooks of the world, blah, blah, blah, blah, like Kareem Hunt.

And I think we all bought into this idea that that's going to be, CEH is going to be the next guy. I don't think that narrative is dead necessarily. maybe this offense is just so different with Mahomes. It's going to be so much more pass-heavy that it's a little different from like Reed's past. But I still think CEH has tons of upside. Here's the problem when we compare a guy to like, oh, it'll be like Brian Westbrook. Brian Westbrook didn't have more than 200 carries until he was 27 years old.

Yeah. So like that's kind of the- Different NFL back then too, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, we'll see. But again, I agree. I like Clyde. It's just also elite name, Clyde. unbelievable.

Clyde to glide. Okay. Who wants to go next? Fight. I can go next. And so, again, I'm not necessarily saying this is the guy I'm looking for in every single draft, but I do think he's a good value. Travis ZtN of the Jaguars, I think that based on some of the off-season OTAs and

minicamp narratives, people are a little bit scared off by the Urban Meyer factor. And I think there's some validity to that eventually. I'm scared off by the Urban Meyer factor. Yeah, basically people think that Urban Meyer is going to be. an idiot and ruin like what is a talented roster and whatever. There's talk of ETN being a quote slash in this offense, which means he's like, you know, the Percy Harvin Curtis Samuel role in Urban Meyer's previous offenses

where he's not going to be a full-time running back, essentially. There's this idea that he's not going to be a full-time running back. However, I still think he's going to get enough touches, enough carries and targets to be a pretty darn valuable fantasy option. even in year one. Again, remember, this is a first round pick. This is the first pick outside after Trevor Lawrence, obviously, that they made.

They clearly are going to have a plan for him. People are very scared off, though, about the fact that Urban Meyer came out and said, oh, we wanted Cadarius Tony, blah, blah, blah, he's going to be a slash. Can you explain what a slash means? It's like, I forget exactly what they call it. It's kind of like a, it's like an H-back sort of deal where he lines up as like a wingback. You can line up in the slot. You can line up in the backfield.

Doing a lot of jet sweep stuff. It's not just a dedicated running back where you're lining up. If I close my eyes, I'm hearing Corderole Patterson. Terrifying gadget. I'm hearing Goddivine. Tavern Austin. Doesn't sound great. I'm hearing guy, like, this is really, this is not helping.

This is why his, I think, his ADP is depressing. Right now, according to the ECR, he's RB35, which again seems just way too low to me. when you look at some of the things that they're saying about him. So like Urban Meyer said, quote, he's much more than a running back. He's a slash.

We did not recruit him just to be a running back. I love that he uses the word recruit. Brian Schottenheimer, who's the passing game for a guy. That's concerning, honestly. That's like, that's one of those little things that's like shouldn't matter to me.

But doesn't that bother you that he's working in the NFL now and just can't get the word recruit out of his brain? Not really. Does that kind of matter? How old do you guys think Urban Meyer is? just off the top of your head he's 61

what do you think DK 55 he's 56 I feel like everyone thinks she's 65 and he's like losing his marbles well it's because he's retired twice for health complications so it's like it kind of that ages you in my head

but like I don't know like what kind of offense are they going to run in Jacksonville Darrell Bevel's the O.C., right? But like is he running it or is Urban Meyer running it? Well according to what we've heard

in reports that coming out. He is, I think he's going to have a say in sort of like the overall philosophy, the overall big picture stuff, but like he's not going to be calling plays. Daryl Bevel's coming in and running the offense more or less. So again, yeah, these are all the questions. You guys are both obviously on the side where you're like nervous what Urban Meyer brings. But I have no idea what's happening. I just don't think that they spent a first round pick on this guy to use them as a gadget player. I think he's got he's a really good prospect. He's

got speed, breakaway ability. He has the ability to play as a pass catcher. He has early down, he got like volume in college. Like, not necessarily per game because Clemson was always winning like 50 to 14 by the time the third quarter ran around came around and he would like sit there as a game.

But I do think that there is a world where he gets something like eight or nine carries and say three to six targets per game. that doesn't sound like a lot. It doesn't. That's my fear.

I want to note something because, yeah, like the context is important. I'm not saying he's going to be like an RB1 this year and be like this elite fantasy asset, but it's important to remember Alvin Camara has pretty consistently

over his career averaged around 12 carries and seven targets per game. That is like, and he turns that into absolutely elite. Yeah, but isn't that the exception? I don't think that's a fair comparison. That's not a fair comparison. not a fair comparison. Alvin Camara is like the fourth most

touchdowns to start his career ever, and he's playing for the Saints and Sean Payton. That's fair, and I'm not saying he's Alvin Camara, but I'm saying, like, I don't think that's like crazy to think, like, he could get eight to nine carries and six targets a game. I don't think we actually have to disagree here. I guess I would tweak what you're saying to, you're

right that they don't, I don't think they drafted Travis E.T.N. in the first round to not use him. What I'm saying is that that role sounds like the kind of thing that's more useful for real-life football than fantasy. Like when Travis E.T.N. lines up as a running back and then options out to receiver and then they got to bring a linebacker out, or they just, or they have a, he line him out

slot and then put him in the backfield, like, or you put him on a jet sweep and it's a fake, that's just making defenses think about shit and you're putting it on tape, and then your opponent next week has to plan all week for what happens. A Travis E.T.N. goes in motion. And you know what I mean? But like, that's very valuable for a football team, but that doesn't matter in fantasy. And that's kind of my concern is that He will be valuable to the Jaguars, but not to you on your team. Right. I don't know.

The Camara thing, I guess, is like a bad example because he's the clear, best, you know, most efficient guy over his career. But like, what about saying he's going to be similar somewhat to Austin Eccler, who was an undrafted free agent? Well, yeah, that's the flip side. Explosive guy. Yeah. I don't, I think he's talented.

Like, I don't think he's bad. I don't think he's Camara. I don't think that comparing him to Camara is fair. and so that's a good point. But yeah, I mean, if you pitch him as the Jaguars, Austin Echler, who has a relationship with Trevor Lawrence already, I think it's something that's exciting. I don't mean to tear down ETN, though,

because here's the thing. Isn't he like one of the most prolific college football players of all time? Urban Meyer seems to like college. He drafted him first. He's obsessed with him. Here's the thing. No shade to James Robinson, who we all love. He said, he's still, I don't...

Look, the players say all the time, it doesn't matter what you did last year. Doesn't matter you did last week. James Robinson is an undrafted free agent. has no ties to this team, like the people running the team now. Like the flip side, I think that Travis ETN

gives me more confusion than like any player this season, other than all of the Houston Texans. Yeah. Jaguars in general, I feel like, just no one knows. I do think that, I think James Robinson's still going to have a role

with his team, but basically since they got here, the coaching staff, whether it's Urban Meyer, whether it's, you know, Daryl Bevel or Schadenheimer who has their passing game coordinator,

they keep talking about wanting their offense to have speed. They want to be explosive. They want to have speed. And E.TN is that guy. Like, he was the explosive running back in college. He scored 78 touchdowns in college.

He has, and that's really the, that's how he's defined, honestly. It's his explosiveness and speed. He's not super shifty. He's not Alvin Camara in terms of making guys miss in space,

or making guys miss in in a phone booth or whatever. But he is super fucking explosive. He can hit zero to 60 in a blink of an eye, and that creates big plays. I think they're going to use him to try and get him the opportunity to do that. Brian Schottenheimer said the other day, quote, he's got electric speed,

he's got the finishing speed. We know what he is as a runner. He's amazing in space. And now it's been kind of fun to try and teach him some nuances that go in the passing game. All we're doing by doing that is adding value for him. So I don't know, man. I just still think people are,

of like the quotes and stuff and I get it. But look at what they did. They took him in the first round. He's Trevor Lawrence's college running back. Like there's that instant connection there. He's going to get touches, man. He's going to get touches. And I think he's going to get enough touches to be fantasy viable and probably outplay as ADP.

You're saying my fear to Urban Meyer is that I need to believe people have the capacity for change. Yes. Go back to that. Don't worry about the fact he called it that he said they recruited him. Don't worry about that. I like that. Just look past that. That's old school.

We recruited him by forcing him to come to our team by picking him in the draft. I'm excited to recruit Christian McCaffrey with the first pick out overall in drafts the show. Craig. It's all about the program. Craig who you got? The name on everybody's minds, this off season, Gus Edwards, Ravens. Gus the bus! Gus the bus.

Just kind of flying into the radar. Gus Edwards. signed a two-year $10 million extension with the Ravens soft season. Mark Ingram's gone. He's on the Texans, along with 15 other washed-up running backs. Gus Edwards, 5.2 yards per carry for his career.

Pretty good. He pretty much has the exact same year every single year on the Ravens. He's had between 711 and 723 yards all three years, which is pretty good. It's so specific. I know. I mean, literally, he's had within 12 yards for all three seasons.

I mean, there's no, like, unbelievable argument I have here besides Mark Ingram's gone. They paid Gus Edwards. Gus Edwards is a good runner. He led the team in carries last year. And fantasy pros says Dobbins is the RB 16 and Edwards is the RB19. And if you look at last season, Dobbins is... No, 39. Oh, sorry, that's what I meant, RB 16 and RB 39.

And last season, Dobbins was the running back 21 and Edwards was the running back 35. So it's like, why is he worse now? I don't understand that by any means. And listen, even if he gets 10 to 12 carries a game on the best running offense in football, which is basically what he's been getting when Mark Ingram was still around. Like, I think he's like a viable flex pick. And also, once again, this is what I've been pitching with wide receivers, if something were to happen to Dobbins, I mean, Edwards becomes like a top 12 guy

because there's no longer that split that's happening between the two of them. Same thing is with Dobbins. but Dobbins is going so much higher even if he starts the game quote unquote I don't think Edwards is going anywhere Yeah unfortunately My Dobbins fandom is like cringing during this whole talk

But it's actually true like they I feel like they're still going to use these guys pretty evenly Like they love Gus Edwards They want to run the ball He's so good downhill He breaks a ton of tackles He's a big physical guy He's like 230 something pounds

So it's hard to tackle him and people have to, you know, it's one of those old school philosophies, I think the Ravens have where it's like, we want you to, like, it's going to hurt when you have to tackle us and Gus Edwards is that guy. Craig,

I think the best thing you said is, that extension means they're going to play him. That's not a handcuff. He's more than a handcuff. Two years, ten mil. Yeah. The one thing I just want to say is that, I think the first argument

that Craig and I ever had on this podcast was I called Gus, Gus the bus. And you said, how dare you? Jerome Bennett said, we will never call Gus the bus. We will never call Gus the bus. I said a little making of a thing.

The U-Haul. And you know, you said it already. And so, wow, that was like a full circle moment. I've been beaten down. Yeah, the years have worn on you. All right, TK., who else you got? Another guy that I kind of like, and again, this is just a good value, I think, is Zach Moss from Buffalo, who is going, I think he's going as the RB 37 and 80P. So people are clearly not high on him.

And I kind of understand why, like, you're in a really, really pass heavy offense with the bills. They're not, according to, uh, you. their offensive coordinator, they're not Brian Dayball, they're not trying to change that in 2021. And they're still going to be pass heavy. And they used a rotation, like a committee approach

at the running back position last year for the most part. He's still got to beat out Devin Singletary. There's reasons that he's going this late. However, I do think in a perfect world, the bills are going to want to run the ball efficiently. And I think they're going to want to lean on Zach Moss, who is more of a banger,

like big 230-pound guy who can, you know, run between the tackles, do some sustaining runs, be useful in the red zone. And down the stretch, that's how it looked like things were kind of emerging for the bills. From weeks 13 to 17, the end of the season, he out carried Singletary 41 to 21. And importantly, he was utilized pretty frequently in the red zone, especially inside the five-yard line. He ranked 16th among running backs and inside the five-yard line carries, which doesn't sound like crazy numbers, but remember he was in the past

his offense in the NFL and was like in a rotation. So he had 11 of those inside the 10-yard, inside the 5-yard line. His inside the 5-yard line carry rate, which is a PFF stat I saw, 9.8% was fifth among all running backs. So 11 of his 112 carries were inside the 5-yard line.

Josh Allen steals some of those red zone carries, but I guess the question is, is that going to continue forever? is that going to be a situation the bill is trying to get away from a little bit this year? I don't know if that's the case because he is just so big and strong and powerful and all that. But they also don't, I think,

they have to be aware, like, they don't want to wear him down too much. They don't want him to have issues with his shoulders or whatever. Like, just give the ball to Moss, especially if he's effective and take care of it, instead of giving it to the most important player on the franchise, if that makes any sense. So I'm just a little curious if the, you know, Josh Allen, I think it was like 989 or 988 or whatever.

How many rushing touchdowns he's had the first three seasons? It's like been very consistent. I'm wondering if it's going to continue. I think it's a minute. No, 998 or I don't know what it is. I mean, Herman Kane, 999. So I guess my point is I think there's a chance that Kmos not only takes over as the lead guy in this offense over Singletary, where Singletary is more of a change of pace. But he could end up scoring more touchdowns.

and turning himself into like a flex play. It's sort of in the same vein as the guest said, I don't think he's going to be an elite running back necessarily. But if you're looking for a guy that you can have, that can come in and be a good flex option for you.

I think this could be, you know, we could see a change in how Buffalo's backfield looks this year. Yeah, it's kind of like Clyde where it's like, if you can have the starting running back on maybe the best offense in football, like it's worth it.

And if he's going super late and he ends up being the starter and kind of dominating snaps over Singletary, yeah, I think it could probably end up being maybe not a top 10 running back but this guy could end up being like an RB2

in your team that you didn't really expect you make sense if you're punning on running back like if you're starting with like Travis Kelsey and like Devante Adams are your first two picks and then you get like AJ Brown

or someone and then you're just like I'll figure out running back later Zach Moss is like a perfect perfect uh It's a good zero RB yeah we need a rebrand zero RB

because zero RB is actually like seven RB it's like we need seven running back late round RB late round RB The other thing I want to say is I don't know I don't necessarily know if he's really like a good, good player.

But I think he's not, I don't think he's a jag. I think he's better than a jag. Just a guy. My favorite term that you use, honestly, ever. It's a great term. You just throw it around. Is Urban Meyer a jagg in two different ways? I don't think so.

Jags on the jags. The one side that I think tends to show the quality of a running back is tackles, like breaking tackles, broken tackles, tackles avoided. last year, Zach Moss, according to PFF, was 14th and avoided tackles

per touch. At the same rate, obviously, much lower volume, but same rate as Aaron Jones, Austin Eckler, Chris Carson, Clyde, and Dobbins.

This is not a JAG in my mind. He's an elusive guy. He's big, physical. He can break tackles. I don't think he's an elite guy necessarily,

so maybe that is the definition of a jag, I guess. Who knows? But I think he's pretty good. Like, he's a good runner. Just like Gus Edwards is a good runner.

Gus, the U-Haul. Gus the bus. So we'll see. In any case, he's cheap. He's cheap. That's a good sell. All right. So my next guy, before I give my next guy, I'm going to shout out Craig.

Craig is a smart guy. The smartest thing Craig has ever said on this podcast is that the biggest under-discussed fantasy bias is that we just overwhelmingly are biased toward guys with really cool names. And like, if you just look at the guys that we've already plugged on this podcast, we're talking about Chris Carson. Miles Gaskin, Clyde Edwards Elair, Travis E.T.N. Tracer. Like, those are cool names. Javante Williams, Gus Edwards. Let me shout out Mike Davis for the Falcons. Mike Davis, who sounds like he works at Dunder Mifflin. Which is, this is also going to get me shit because Danny Kelly. He can tell us about paper stock.

He could, right? So he's a really good heavyweight paper stock. I looked up Mike Davis on Wikipedia. There are, he is like the fifth Mike Davis list under the Wikipedia tab for NFL players named Mike Davis. Like, he's not even in the top four Mike Davis is on Wikipedia who played in the NFL. In the NFL.

There's so many other Mike Davises in Wikipedia. There's like a Marxist professor from like UC Riverside. There's like a screenwriter who wrote the movie, what is it? Sex Galaxy, which obviously we all saw. So the cinematography is just beautiful.

It's unbelievable. So like... That sounds amazing. But here's the thing. I'm serious. with this. The Craig Corollary. I think that Mike Davis would be ranked like 30 spots higher if he weren't

Mike Davis because everyone's afraid he's just a guy. But the reality is he's the starting running back for the Atlanta Falcons. And yet no one wants to put this guy in the top 60 or 70. This is the opposite to me of what I felt about the dolphins where it's like Miles Gaskins good, but I think they're going to sign someone.

The Falcons I don't think are going to sign anyone. Mike Davis has the job. He's a two-down running back. Like, there's this whole tier of running backs that are like two down guys that we're all afraid of. Josh Jacobs, Miles Sanders, J.K. Dobbins, David Montgomery, DeAndre Swift. They're like two down guys that we like and are definitely talented but seem to have limited upside. I don't know why Mike Davis can't be in that group other than Mike Davis. I mean, he might be a three down guy. He got 70 targets last

year in Carolina's offense. If you combine. He's 80% of CMC. Yeah. I mean, like, let's say his name is Trey Flash. He's like a top 15 running back. Absolutely. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Here's the thing. So he replaced Christian McCaffrey last year. If you just combine,

McCaffrey played like two games, two plus like three technically, but he got hurt. So like if you just combine McCaffrey and Mike Davis into just Panthers running back, the top four running backs last year, it was Camara,

Derek Henry, Dalvin Cook, Panthers running back. Mike Davis played most of those games. Christian McAfee played in two freaking games Panthers running back is the fourth best player Now I know it's not the same offense and all that stuff But it's not like he's going to an offense that doesn't know

How to use running backs Arthur Smith is the coach of the Titans Derek Henry's above him on that list And they're clearly confident enough him in him as the veteran To hold the and there's no one behind him There is no one behind him The Falcons cleared the decks at running back Todd Gurley, Edo Smith and Brian Hill

Got 99% I'm serious 99% of the touches last year. All three of those dudes are gone. Like, there's no competition. So anyway, sorry. Justice for Mike Davis. I think we need to rebrand him.

But, um, let's just give him a new name. Trey Flash is pretty good. Let's just, he'll just give a new name and we'll just only refer to him as that. We'll tweet about him as that. Who knows?

He's in Atlanta. And Trey Young's like Ice Trey. Can we make him like hot Trey? Oh, yeah, that's perfect. Trey Flash. Yeah. Trey Flash. Is he a, not just a flash in a pan?

Trey old? Yeah. Trey old. I feel We can't get past the Mike Davis discussion without reminding Hyfitz that he laughed in my face hard when I brought up the idea that Mike Davis was a good sleeper going into the season. This was before the draft, mind you. It was before the draft. And I said the talk.

A lot of tough looks for Hyphitz on this episode. Heifitz, you really laughed hard in my face. You know, especially in the COVID era like that is just brutal. Wait, are you saying it's brutal to laugh at somebody during COVID in general? No, it's brutal to laugh in someone's face, like, hard. You ever see your face? We're all remote, you know, whatever. I did laugh in your face.

That's, that's, you were right. Appalled. You were appalled that I would bring up Mike Davis. Okay, just had to get that in. Okay, can I give my last quick guy here? I won't spend too long on him. Please, please interrupt the D.K. You're skewering me.

Yeah, that would be really nice. So I'm basically going to do the opposite of what I did last year. I want to talk about Daryl Henderson on the Rams. it's last year but backwards. Like Henderson was the guy and then we're like, but Acres though. I didn't see Tenet, I'm sorry. I didn't see Tenet.

You'll have to explain. And now Acres is the guy and I'm like, but Henderson though. Like I'm all in on Acres, but the way I see it are there's three scenarios, there's four scenarios that could happen in 2021 in the Rams backfield. Acres is dominant in Henderson barely plays.

McVeyer does, like a Aaron Jones, Jamal Williams situation, and it's Henderson as a kind of a flex guy while Acres is doing the most, kind of like Aaron Jones, but like maybe like one out of every three drives, it's Henderson. That's option two. Option three is Acres doesn't play well, and Henderson kind of takes a bigger role, or four acres gets hurt. So three of those four options are like kind of good for Darrell Henderson, and he's going so late. And unlike most handcuffs, he's kind of proven. Like he had more yards than than Acres did last year

on less touches. He's flashed. He's flashed at times. Not Trey flashed. He hasn't Trey flashed. But like we know the offense is going to be good. And unlike other late round running backs, you got like Naim Hines, Latavius Murray, Tareke Cohen, and Philip Lindsay. Like the Rams are going to be really good. Henderson is

kind of proven. I think he's one of the safest handcuffs, borderline flex guys that you could draft. Also, the Rams running back depth chart is bleak. besides Acres and Henderson, not a single running back has taken an NFL snap.

Did you tell Sean McVeigh that while you were producing the pod? You're like, oh, Sean, what's with this running back depth? I was like, Jake Funk, dude, seventh round. Speaking of cool names, what if Mike Davis are the name Jake Funk? That's amazing. Can we just call Mike Davis Jake Funk?

Jake Funk East. The three backups on the Rams are all cool names. Xavier Jones, Raymond Callais, and Jake Funk. I kind of want to call Mike Davis. It's Mike Funk. I've already overtrip Flash. I like Mike Funk.

But anyway, yeah, that's my pitch. I think Henderson is like a worthy late-round RBE pick. I love that too. I think that's great. He was a guy that we thought

was going to be legit really good in the NFL too. I don't know what happened, but... Did somebody compare him to Camara? Everyone got compared to Camara. We should have been listening when McVeigh and whoever

compared him to what's his name? Who did the Cowboys, like, Tony Pollard? Lance Dunbar! Lance Dunbar! Not even Tony Pollard. We should have been listening

when the Rams front office compared him to Lance Dunbar after the draft. We should have known, however, we did not know. By the way, check out Flying Coach with Sean McVeigh

if you want to hear him talk. Part two of the Troy Aikman series coming out this Wednesday. It's even better than the first part, in my opinion. Can you ask McVeigh to give us an exact breakdown of how the backfield is going to go this year? Absolutely. Okay.

The last episode of the season is going to be me asking him fantasy questions about the Rams. There we go. I love that. Yeah. Crossover event. I have a sense some of those thoughts have bled into this podcast already. Okay. Not true. words, Zach Moss, Trey Sermon, Daryl Henderson,

and we're just going to call Mike Davis Trey Flash or Mike Funk. Interchangeable? Mike Funk. I like that. Can we do a fan... If you email us at Ringer Fantasy Football at Gmail.com, what you would like us to refer to Mike Davis. Mike, or should we do the Mike quotes and just, like, nickname, and then make the nickname a thing and then call him like Funk Davis? Funk Davis.

We can just give them a new name. That's pretty fucked up, but we can give them a nickname Funk Davis. I like Funk Davis. We should start like a... start like a public movement to give Mike Davis the coolest nickname we can. Like we need to find out of...

Funk is up there. I'd like to find out about his personal life. You know, maybe if he had a nickname growing up, if anybody knows anyone that knows Mike Davis. Someone's gonna call him

Quadzilla. No, it's not... You see the pictures of his quads? No, we need just like a nickname, though. No one was calling him Quadzilla just like at lunch. Hey, Quadzilla. I have mixed feelings about the quads thing

with like Sequan. Because like everyone else, you see the picture like, whoa. And then everyone starts talking about it and you're like, I don't know. You can only talk about it for so long. Yeah,

it's the quad. There's a whole quad war. There's too many quad. It's like the Chris Wars, but now it's Quad Wars. I'd love to be called Quadzilla one day. Keep working at. Keep working at it.

Don't skip. Don't skip leg day, Craig. Yeah, and people on the spot will never see Craig's legs. Okay, wait, speak,

one more thing to address here. Speaking of Craig's legs, how are you going to pivot that? I was going to say something that has let, I just was going to move on really smoothly and hope no one heard it. I'm just mad. You guys, I go for one week,

and then you guys are like, let's change the intro music. What happened? So, I don't know if you, I don't know if you listened while you were on vacation. We did two episodes, one on wide receivers, one on quarterbacks. He just doesn't care.

He just doesn't care. But we switched it up, where D.K. thanked Lauren, and I had to name the musical artists, and I spontaneously said, Mariah Carey. And then, as we were, we're signing off. I was like, you know, what's my favorite Mariah Carey song? Fantasy. And

D.K. was like, I also love that song. And I was like, boy, wouldn't that be special if we got fantasy to be the intro music of our fantasy football show. So in the last four days, I've kind of, I mean, I tried to reach out in research ways that I could make this happen. And it's quite difficult. She's a big star. How much that this cost us? Oh, so much money. But what we need Can you do this show for free, Hyphitz? We would need... Wait, wait, what if we... Can we cover the song?

Like, can we get one of us or someone... Like, someone else to cover the song and we play that? I don't think you can do that still. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I'm just asking questions. I don't think I could just grab a YouTube cover of it and play it. Like, I don't...

No, we record our own cover. But it's still a copyright. We're still using her song. What if we're, like, ridiculously offbeat? Maybe. If we're so offbeat, it's unrecognizable. It's a whole new song. Yes, that would be fine.

Listen, this is what we need to do. We need to find, I'm really praying for our listeners here. Anyone work at Universal Music Group or no Mariah Carey? Because we need her. Fantasy football? What we need to bank on is that she essentially just says like, or like her manager, what label manager executive just says like, yeah, whatever, you can use it. Take it.

Which does happen a lot. Like, it's a thing, you know. So that's our biggest bet. I can be... Mariah. If you're listening... Please. All we want for Christmas

is the rights to your song on this podcast. If I had to rank celebrities who I think are listening to this pod, Mariah Carey is dead fucking ass. She's up there. Is she your first round? She's up there. No, Dead Last is like David Attenborough.

Yeah, well, he's like a hundred. Because you guys shit all over his show. How dare you? We love this. It's my favorite show. How dare you? We love that. show.

You were shitting on, you were shitting on wolves? You shit on something. I think you were shitting on wolves. I was making fun of the animals, not the show. I would never make fun of David Attenborough. He's a treasure.

It's the most mind-blowing show I've ever seen in my life. I apologize. You didn't make fun of Attenborough. It's the best content out there. Oh my God. Anyway, okay. Let's get out of here.

But wait, we should tell people, right, before we thank Lauren and sign off, Fourth of July is Sunday. We're still coming out with an next. episode on Monday. So we're going to have an episode Thursday this week like we normally do, and we are sticking with an app that will come out Monday morning. Perhaps July 4th themed. You'll see what that means. Maybe. Yeah, so I just want to let people know that's still coming. Thank you, Lorne. Lorne.

Thanks, Lionel Richie. Oh. Wow. You're getting better at those. You had that one in the holster sounded like. Yeah, you did. Yeah. For the first time ever I prepped. All right, Carrie, reach out to us.