The Ringer NFL Show - The Six Most Divisive Players in the Draft

Episode Date: April 7, 2022

Some NFL draft prospects are difficult to analyze for a variety of reasons. We break down the six players with the most disagreement among scouts and media analysts. Later we play America’s favorite game, Two Jargons One Lie, as well as a listener-submitted edition. (3:16) – EDGE Kayvon Thibodeaux, Oregon (12:25) – DE Travon Walker, Georgia (20:50) – C Tyler Linderbaum, Iowa (28:13) – S Kyle Hamilton, Notre Dame (39:22) – C Derek Stingley Jr., LSU (43:19:85) – WR Treylon Burks, Arkansas (49:20) – Two Draft Jargons, One Lie (53:07) Listener Two Jargons, One Lie Check out The Ringer’s 2022 NFL Draft Guide. Email us! [e-mail]. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Ben Solak, and Craig Horlbeck  Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are certain moments and words that shaped a new era in pro wrestling. Austin 316 says I just whipped your ass. Brett screwed breath. Die, Rocky Dye. Suckooke it! Introducing the book of wrestling, 25 catchphrases that explain the attitude era. Tune in as we relive one of the most exciting, intense, and over-the-top times in WWE. With new interviews, with the voices that made the promos, calls,

and catch phrases into history. Listen now. Ringer NFL Draft Show. My name is Danny Heifitz. I am joined by Danny Kelly, Ben Solek, and Craig Borellbeck, and we are coming to you every Tuesday and Thursday to talk everything NFL draft. You can check out all our content at NFLdraft. Theringer.com.

Content. Love that content. Keep churning it out. We love to content. We will have a whole updated big board mock draft for you. Keep checking on NFLdraft. out the ringer.com for all of DK stuff. I got my team needs there. We're going to have special

stuff from Ben Solac soon. Watch out for that. And speaking of watch out, I wanted to go through some prospects that I've been watching out for. And I kind of wanted to basically hijack this episode to kind of ask DK and Solac some stuff because I just think there's some prospects in this

draft that are very obviously divisive guys. And really people that I personally, as I peruse all this all the prospects, all the mock drafts, all the everything that we digest throughout the last few months that I just still have deep questions on and it seems like there's no consensus

or not no consensus but there's just more disagreement between how people view these prospects in particular than everyone else and it's kind of like that story of the guy who gets, you know, lost in the wilderness and then gets found and, you know,

you could look multiple people, that was a complete tangent, I'm gonna. Are you talking about Jesus? No, no, I'm not Jesus. And then he was found. I don't know, Jesus. was around woods.

Amazing Grace? What I was trying to say is two people can, God damn it. Two people can look at the same thing and have different reactions. That's all you can have different. That's all. I'm going to avoid the story.

Anyway. Save that for your script. Yeah, well, save it for the pig script. Okay, can I just get into the guys? I'm just going to back up what you're saying. I get what you're saying. Here's the draft and being a draft analyst and being a part of like the NFL draft

Twitter industrial complex. Like, if anything, just makes me less confident in first person or eyewitness testimony. Like it's draft takes. I'm like, two people can look at the exact same fucking play and be like, this guy's amazing. Or, yeah, he's not very good.

He's not very fast, whatever. Like, literally they can look at the same play and see two totally different things. So I get what you're saying. But these players that we're going to bring up today in particular are like the most divisive and I guess like most confusing going into the draft. So I just kind of want to get into it.

And I want to start with really just there's two in particular. There's a pass rusher who's rising and there's a past rusher who's fallen. And I want to start with the past Russia who's fallen, quote unquote. And it's Oregon defensive end Kavon Tibido. And I am so flummoxed by this. So Kavon Tibido was the number one prospect in high school in 2019, like number one in America. He went to Oregon. He did great.

And as of January of this year, he was the betting favorite to go number one. one in the draft. Our first episode of the ringer NFL draft show, I believe, was who would be the first pick, Kavon Tibido or Aiden Hutchinson? That was the discussion and Tibado was favored at the time. He's number one in D.K.'s board. D.K. You've comped Kavon Tibado to Kahl-Mack or a T-Rexe and an F-14. Like, that's your comps for this guy. And yet, despite that, Mel Kuiper has Kavon Tibon-Tibode sixth on his board. Todd McShae is Kavon-Tibod seventh on his board. Daniel Jeremiah at NFL Network, who's a very respected analyst, has Kavana Thibodeau 10th, but not only that, Daniel Jeremiah is Kavanaugh-Tibado as the fourth best defensive end in the draft.

And it's funny because Tibado at his, his pro day at Oregon this week, talked about this. And Kvon-Tibode was asked, what is the most ridiculous thing he's heard about him, or you've heard about himself in the, sorry, I can't speak English. What's the most ridiculous thing you've heard about yourself in the last month, or last few months? And he said his answer, this was to say, I can't speak English. Oh, my God. I'll play the clip. Play the clip, Craig.

I don't know what's wrong with me. The most ridiculous thing I've heard of that I'm not the best player in this draft, honestly. And that's, other than that, I don't really listen to everything else. But that to me is outrageous just, you know, with the film, with the numbers and what I can do as far as my ability, you know, I have confidence in what I can do. This guy was number one on almost everybody's board three months ago. And now we're wondering if he'll even be in the top 10 is suddenly a question. Like what happened with Kvon Tibido? Well, I think this is number one, this is a good microcosm or macrocosm or whatever of just the draft process.

It's one of those things where sometimes you just get sick of talking about one guy because he's been sort of the presumed number one pick for so long and another guy. It's like something shiny comes out. This is, you know, the Trayvon Walker, who we'll talk about later. someone else shiny comes up and we start to think oh this guy's actually better this guy has a higher upside blah blah blah i think at the end of the day with tibito and you know specifically tibodos which it's going to come down for me i think to tibbado and hutchinson when i do formulate like my final top 100 before the draft you know who am i going to put at the very top of my order i think for me it's going to come down to tibbidoh or hutchinson and i think with them the question is

floor versus ceiling because I think Tibido has a higher ceiling than maybe any of the pass rushers in this group because of his natural talents his physicality. He's like three down skill set. He can play the run.

He can play the pass. He's got pretty much everything you want. But the consistency, I think, is not there or at least where some teams may not want it. And he'll be viewed by some teams. And this is the whispers and this is basically it's becoming a chorus at this point is some teams view him as a more risky pick because of his personality.

His interest off the field. People are wondering whether he loves ball. And so, like, I guess with everything else being relatively equal between, like, Hutchinson and Tibido, obviously, they're different players and have different sort of styles, but Hutchinson is perceived to be, like, hardcore football head, meat, you know, like meathead grind, wants to just, like, rip your face off kind of deal versus Hutchinson, or sorry, versus Tibido, who's, like, interested. in crypto off the field.

He has a deal with Nike. He's got, you know, he's got all this other stuff going on. He loves chess player. Yeah, big chess player. Red flag. Why won't you play me, coward? So I think, you know, and then along the way, there's, of course, been the ability to pick apart things and nitpick everything and holes in his game potentially.

So I think this is overall just like, this is the draft process. This is what happens. But also as we get closer to draft, I think some like, coaches are going to weigh in and maybe some coaches don't like him as much or didn't like the interviews or whatever. So I'm trying to like not pay attention to it too much and just pay attention to what I saw on tape. And that was a good player. I think obviously there are some things you can nitpick, but I think he's going to be a really good player. And so I think, yeah, it's just it's the nature of the beast, really. Is this just media attrition just over time?

This is what happens. This is the life cycle of the draft season where we have too much time to analyze these people and we end up nitpicking and we skew these players' values beyond what they actually are? I don't think it's media attrition. I think it's league attrition, right? I think Kavanaugh was the number one overall prospect in 2019. And I come out of high school. And every NFL guy knew this dude's name.

And every NFL dude showed up at Oregon to scout Justin Herber and scout Penneux. And the coaching staff was like, yo, this kid's fucking nuts. This kid's incredible. This kid's so good. And then they know that he's been amazing for two years. And they've had two years to ask themselves, well, what's wrong with him? What's the kicker, right? What, what, what's the thing that nobody's telling us?

You ever see Draft Day? Kevin Costner, freaking, you know, just tie in of media industry. It's one of my favorite movies ever. Say it with me, you pancake-hook motherfucker. Yes, thank you. Kevin Costor just knows there's something wrong with Beau, whatever the first quarterback's name is. Yeah, that guy. Not Chaddook Bowman the other dude.

You know something's wrong with him, right? When you have a guy who's so prominent and is so visible, like, all right, what's wrong with him? And then he does stuff. He, you know, he doesn't have great effort in 2021. As Daniel Jeremiah and Tom McShay have reported. You know, there was a, there was a quote given from a coach. I can't remember to whom. It might have been Bruce Feldman of the athletic mock where it was like he was easy to game plan against.

That doesn't even mean anything. Like, of course, it's easy to game plan against. He's the only good defender. It's him and Noah Sewell. It's the only two guys you're worried about. Like, yeah, that's how it works when he's a star. and the other guys aren't. You know, but like, you, you end up creating problems a little bit.

And this is a common problem that gets created, right? Somebody brought up Josh Rosen relative to Stibito. I was like, oh, he's like, Rosen. Like, he could be amazing if he just dedicated himself to football. No, he is amazing. He just isn't gung-ho, Rambo, I die for football guy. And that's okay. You know what this reminds me of in a weird way?

It's not even Rosen. It reminds me of Justin Herbert. And I say that because Herbert kind of had everything you need in the player on the field, not the personality you expect at the position. And so they started as Justin Herbert, we'll study for years how this guy fell the sixth in the draft. And it seems like a large part of it was, why is he so quiet?

Why is he an introvert? And it's like, well, who cares? Like, he's really good at football. Yeah. And I think that Tibado is like an even more extreme version of that because he's better. We craft a narrative of what we want these football players to be like, what we want their personalities to be. like and when they're not that way, we knock them for it, which is not right.

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, the Tibido question is it's not necessarily do these concerns exist because they do exist. Like, NFL teams have these concerns, like flat out. But I think the thing that I think is interesting and just, you know, I don't have any power over this. I would say, like, if a team likes Thibodeau in the top 10, take him because he's a good player and he's got a really high upside. But a lot of teams are risk averse that high because if you miss on a top 10 pick, you know, it can set your team back.

It can make you lose your job if you're a GM. There's millions of dollars at stake for this person who's making this pick, right? So in those situations, with all the chips in, like,

they're going to pick a guy who they perceive is like lower risk, I think, in a lot of cases. And so I think that's kind of the thing with Tibido. It's not, I'm not even trying to deny

that like these issues exist for some teams because they flat out do. Like, we've heard too many reports now. There's too many, much smoke that some teams don't like his personality to even try and deny it anymore. The question is, I guess, is like, who's going to finally, how far is he going to fall?

Who's finally going to pull the trigger when they decide that the risk, like the risk is worth the reward essentially. So, sorry, the reward is worth the risk. So that's to me the question. I don't think he's getting outside the top 10, but he's probably going to fall a little bit further than I think anyone would have expected probably, you know, three or four months ago. So it's fascinating.

Might make it all the way to nine there, Danny. you know what? I think he could. He could. The Seahawks right there. I've come all the way around in this. The Giants going from, the Giants have the fifth and the seventh pick. And this draft season started as, well, Kavan Tibdo will never get to the Giants at five. And now it's, hmm, will the Giants take a risk on Tibto at seven? You know what?

Give me Kvon, Tivodeau at seven, please. I would be incredible. And you know why that's possible? Because of another weird thing that's happening at edge rush during this draft. Tibido's falling. And there's another guy, Georgia defensive end Trivon Walker. is rising. And this one blows my mind a month ago, one month ago, if you wanted to bet on who would be

the number one pick in the draft at MGM, Trayvon Walker was not even listed. The MGM had 25 players listed that you could bet on to go number one in the draft. Walker was not listed. Today, Trayvon Walker is the odds on favor to go number two. the only person that even has higher odds to be the first pick in the draft is Aiden Hutchinson, which blows my mind. Like, how is that even possible, D.K.? It's a function of the draft class, first of all.

There's just not no, there are no, like, clear number one or top three guys or whatever in this class. Hutchinson is the guy, but even him, like, in previous years probably wouldn't be like a top 10 pick. So I think number one, it's function in the class number two. again, going back to the draft process here. Walker, production-wise, is not what you'd picture as a top-10 pick. He didn't put up big numbers at Georgia. The context is he was playing a lot of like heads up on the tackle

or just shaded off the tackle. They were asking him to do things like open up rush lanes for the blitzers in their defense. Like they do a lot of that stuff, blitz their linebackers. And so his production was not good, like relative to a lot of like top-10 pass rushers that you'd expect. However, and this is, you know, again, like, are we overrating this,

or is maybe this actually a good process in finding guys that could, like, way, be way better pros than they are college players. He is a massive, massive outlier, a freak athlete, and he's really long. Six foot five, like, 35 inch arms. Like, he's, like, built, like, exactly like you'd want a pass rush to be. He's really twitchy in terms of his athleticism, the movement skills. And some team is going to be like, look, this guy, he has a 10 plus stacks in him. We just need to like coach him up, get him a few pass rush moves, and in year three, he's going to be double-digit sack guy or whatever. Like he's Rashon Gary. Like I Compton and Rashon Gary. In fact, he might be more athletic than Gary. So to me, this is a, it's a huge risk taking him

in the first five picks, first 10 picks, because he could just not be a good pass rusher at the day. Like, he just may never get it. But teams are going to bet on the athletic upside and his like persona and his attitude and, you know, all the things that they're hearing from Georgia coaches is and all that. So it is fascinating to compare and contrast it to Tibido because, you know, I think Tibido has similar tools. But Walker is considered like this massive riser whereas Tibado is falling. I think it is fascinating. So like you've bet on every conceivable person to go number one in the draft. Do you have any Travon Walker number one bets? No, because I have a lot of Trayvon Walker to go top five bets. And so eventually just, you know, whatever. Yeah, it started to become

clear, I think, as we turned to the corner of the combine, that the Tibodeau Fall was going to be paired with a Walker rise. What did what, like, and some of that is the testing, right? To, to go through it and emphasize it, Walker has a 84 and a quarter inch wingspan, which is 35 and a half inch arms. He's 10 and 3 quarter inch hand. He ran a 451, 40 yard dash. He jumped 36 in the vert, 123 in the broad, ran a 6893 cone.

all of those measures were 80th percentile or better. All the measures safer the jumps are 90th percentile or better. So this is a one in every 10, but really like one in every 100 athlete. When you look at the degrees to wait. Can I actually take that even further? Yeah. So there's Kentley Platt on Twitter who does a bunch of prospects. And he said that Trayvon Walker got a 9.99 score out of 10, which out of more than 1,400

defensive ends of the last like 30 years is third. He's third out of 1400. That's the relative athletic score. So it's his measurable that has caused him to jump up the ranks. Why wasn't he in the top 25 on the MGM's betting list? Production.

Production? Number one. Number two, what do we draft in the top 10 when we draft edges? We draft sacks. D.K. said that maybe you can find a 10, a double-digit sack guy

in Trayvon Walker. And yeah, like, maybe. But the reality is when you watch his film, he's not a very good pass-fisher right now. He's very athletic. but he He's a wicked run defender a sick run defender

He was put on the field For his run defending ability That was his responsibility It was what he was coached up on Is what Georgia prioritized You know on a snap to snap basis We're gonna put Jordan Davis And Tramwell Walker

Devonto right on the field We're gonna stop the run And then when it came time to rush the passer It was flits It was pressure packages It was sim pressures They weren't asking their guys to win one-on-one So you're gonna draft Walker at two

Draft Walker at three Draft Walker at one old buddy he's going to have to learn a lot different responsibilities and prioritizations how to get up the ball and he's going to play what more traditional like seven tech nine tech like stuff he did not play it is a long road for Trayvon Walker which is why like he this is a good player this is a good prospect guy you want on your team it's a scary dude to be taking top five because you're expecting immediate pro bowl level production from an edge draft the top five. That's what we've seen over recent years with the Bose is with Garrett.

You are not getting that in terms of sack numbers. You're one out of Trayvon Walker. I'd eat my hat if he if he had more in seven, seven and a half sacks his first year. Save that clip. But that's a really good point because basically this sounds like Jadavion Clowney with way worse branding. It's like he's like a he's a good run defender and there's a risk that yeah, he's just a good run defender that you drafted in the top five. And the thing is Clowny's good run defending was his ability to create TFL's. even really creates tackles at or near the line of scrimmage. It's kind of the terminology we use as opposed to Clowny was a stunt player,

Gap player, shoot player, and you go ahead TFLs for you. TFLs matter more than, you know, one-yard run, zero-yard-runs. Tackle for loss for the people who don't bet number one picks in October. It's funny. You bring up Clowny because Clowny's actually a lot of people are comparing Tibodeo to Clowny because Tibodeau and Clownie, both like, former top high school recruits, came into the NFL, you know, as like build as the top overall pick. And then there's still some concerns about,

the overall pass-horse upside. I mean, like, at the end of the day, look, Trevon Walker had six sacks in 2021. I believe Tibido had seven or seven and a half or something like that. So it wasn't even that big of a difference. And this is why we're having the discussion because Tibido didn't produce. How many fewer games did Tibido play, though? And Tibido was hurt.

And Tibido was hurt for part of the season two. He had a foot injury. These are all seven teammates who are going to go in the first two rounds. Walker, you mean? Yes. You know what I'm saying? But I was saying Tibido didn't have seven guys. Yeah.

So these are all the, this is all the context that goes into it. And look, there's been tons over the years, guys, there's been tons of top 10, top 15 pass rushers that just sucked in the NFL. Like teams chase guys with traits.

And a lot of the times it doesn't work out. So, you know, I personally believe both these guys are very good players. And I, you know, I would take Tibido over Walker right now if like everything else being equal.

But I do like Walker a lot. I think his, his traits are really, really intriguing. But like Ben was saying, you know, you're betting on traits rather than like past performance. Yeah, this to me cuts to the heart of what happens in the draft because I think it's not different than Oscar season. Sometimes people get bored of a movie or, you know, like every, whatever it is,

whoever's the frontrunner for a long time. It's kind of like how LeBron should probably have won the MVP everywhere for six years, but people get bored. The Dodgers should be a world series favorites. and yet the Blue Jays are. It's a shout out to the ringer MLB team. And it's like, we kind of get bored with the people at the top. But we don't think of it with the draft because that person's the same prospect.

And the idea of Tibido going to, as someone who just said, as Ben Solic just said, Tibido going behind someone who is not actually a good pass rusher yet, I just think is the epitome of just overthinking something that's kind of like a tier decision. I really pray that Tibido goes to the Giants at seven. That would be fantastic. I want to ask you guys about kind of like the opposite. question. There's a couple of guys that kind of have the opposite thing going on. And these to me are elite guys who are at low priority positions. And I'm kind of just going to bucket them because

I think it's similar conversation. So there's Notre Dame safety, Kyle Hamilton, who I think is universally regarded as the best safety in this class. Some people have him as just one of the top two players in this class period. I think so like you actually are one of those people. Good football player, baby. Football playing Jesse. It's a football playing guessing. And yet, if you use betting odds, just because betting odds are kind of a good gauge. Yeah, a good gauge of just how things might happen. If you go with what the implied betting odds, Kyle Hamilton's going to fall outside the top 10, even though maybe people think he's one of the best, if not the second best player in the draft.

You've also got Tyler Linderbaum, who's the Iowa center. Linderbom is obviously the best center in this class. Mel Kuyper said that Tyler Linderbom is one of the best center prospects in recent memory. That's a quote. And yet he's 18th on Kuiper. board. D.K., you've got him 17th. And then Daniel Jeremiah, who again, very respected analyst at NFL Network, has Linderbaum

32nd on his board. And I know we've, so lucky, you've explained this to me, and I still am confused. How is the best center prospect in recent memory, not even slated to go in the first half of the first round? Scheme, fit,

and cowardice. Lenderbom is, Lenderbomb is $290. with rocks in his pockets. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it is, it is not,

what's the center supposed to be? If we're, if we're running wide zone, like, if we're running wide zone, like $2.95 can work for you. That's like Garrett Bradbury, Jason Kelsey size,

but that's the fringe, right? Other than that, like you want your center to be more learned 305, 310. And that's why like, I was talking with somebody today who was like,

you know, who would be perfect for the Titans is Tyler Lindelbaum. Like they need that player. They need that role. And it's like, yeah, but they're never going to draft it.

because the Titans won't draft a small. Mike Brable and John Robinson will not draft a small. They've never done. Did you call them a small? They will never draft a small. SMO. SMO. They only draft big angries.

They only draft big angries. And that means Isaiah Wilson in the first round who never plays a meaningful snap for them, then it does. But Isaiah Wilson was enormous and angry. I forgot about that. That's team philosophy. So the thing is that Linderbaum is limited

in terms of the teams that would benefit from him because it has to be a team that would like run this wide zone luck. And those teams have pretty much already invested in this position. That's why the Vikings took Garrett Bradbury when they did out of NC State, who's a really good comp for Tyler Linderbom a couple years ago. Nobody else was going to take him, but the Vikings made sense for their system. So that makes that that fall happen. But I do believe that Linderbom is just a flat out good player.

To be clear, you're saying that Litterbaum is a wide zone kind of center because the wide zone needs offensive linemen who are more athletic who can move and be faster. But you're also saying that how many teams run a wide zone outside zone system like a nine? I would say, yeah, somewhere between like I think it's like eight to 12. I would probably put it at. Like the thing is you you start with your like pures, right? Like just like, all right, the Vikings. Boom, they do it.

And then you get to your like McVeves and your Shanahan's, which is like, all right, they built it. They know how to do it. But they've also been moving away from it. Then you get your Zach Taylor's and your Matliflor's and Greenfielders. Day in Cincinnati. And like, right, they're off of that coaching tree, but they kind of change it. And so it's, do you want to be that team? When you, when you draft a player like Linderbaum, you're saying that when we run the football, we have to move this guy horizontally. Moving him vertically, it's just not going to be to his benefit or to our benefit. So take a team like the

Bengals. The Bengals would love to draft Tyler Lindelbaum at 31. He'd be one of the best players on the board at a position that they wish they could use a major improvement. You'd expect to plug and chug him in year one. You just have to understand that when you do that, you're writing yourself of destiny here where you're going to have to run more wide zone than he did last year and throw more play action off of wide zone accordingly. So you're a little bit shoehorning yourself into what you can do versus when Green Bay had Corey Lindsay or when the Niners had Alex Mac this year. And like those are still wide zone sized dudes, but they were established in the league and have been in the league long enough that they could get away with running other stuff

as well. Eagles with Jason Kelsey is a great example. Kelsey is one of the best pollers in the league because he's a fullback when he's on the run. But you have to like get to, you have to be a veteran like kind of get there. It's very hard to expect a rookie to do that in year one. So speaking, yeah, sorry to interrupt you there. But speaking of Kelsey, I think this makes a good segue. Kelsey right now, according to over the cap, is the highest paid center according to average value per season, which is, he's making 14 million in 2022. He's 35 years old. Of course, he's very established and well respected. But 14 million is the tops for centers in the NFL and it drops off precipitously like honestly there's one two three there's like eight

seven or eight centers total that make over 10 million and then if you go to tackle the top paid uh tackle trent williams right now is 23 million it's a massive massive gulf between what the NFL view like pay number one what they pay offensive tackles and how they view offensive tackles in terms of how important they are too like centers no offense to centers because i i think you could make the argument i certainly some people like hey Robert Mays probably make this argument, and I would believe him, like, centers are more important than the NFL thinks. But if you just look at the value of these players by what they're making, what NFL teams are paying them, centers are not viewed nearly as highly as more as important.

And so teams are just going to be like, hey, look, this guy, Linderbom, he's probably really good. But we're not making, it's not a huge, huge value to get a guy in the draft versus just sign a free agent. And number two, Linderbom in particular, probably can't play guard. He's a center only. You're not going to be any versatility to move him over to guard if you need that or whatever. Like you're locking him into one position only. So those are some of the reasons he's going to fall.

And I think honestly it's like, yeah, he's a top half of the first quality player. But like there's a chance now. I've been having a hard time putting him in the in the first round in some locks. This is so reminiscent to what we did with Creed Humphrey last year. He was the center out of Oklahoma. He was a good prospect. Not as good as Leonard Bomb. It was a totally a good center prospect.

Similar style prospect, though. Couldn't play guard, right? He was a wrestler, so you could just like chuck people around, multiple years starter, dominant dude. Yeah. And then like all year long, we were like, yeah, first round, first round, he's the man. And then we got to April and we were like, ah, maybe not.

Because there's just nobody. Who's going to take him? Nobody is tripping over themselves to get here, which is then what happens? Creed goes round two. He goes, 53? He went after the Seahawks. I know that much.

53 overall to the Chiefs. Seahawks fans are just distraught about the fact that, Humphrey is like on the Chiefs now. And honestly, if Chimar Chase didn't exist and there were stats for O-Linemen, Creed Humphrey probably would have won. Exactly, right? Like there was a offensive rookie of the year grassroots campaign for their second round center because he just doggone good player.

And I think a similar thing is going to happen to Linderbom. Wherever he falls, whether it's 31 to the Bengals or later, we're going to go, hey, it's a really good draft pick. It's a sleeper pick, man. That's a win. Good value. And then fast forward eight months, it's going to be starting. It's going to be great.

And so it's a little bit, like I agree with Danny. like teams got to get the stick out of their butts a little bit and just be comfortable drafting a center. Because it's an important position. And it's essentially the same thing with Kyle Hamilton. It's a different degree, but it's the same overall thing of what, well, safeties aren't as valuable as like cornerbacks. So, you know, we're not going to take him above, you know, Amad Gardner, sauce gardener or someone.

Well, what if he's better than sauce garden? Well, so I guess here's my question. And this is just on the fly. But basically, I guess here's what we're saying. If you actually talk, we're talking about the highest paid positions and the relative value, blah, about what teams pay them. Let's take quarterback out of for a second, but picture the actual positions on a football field.

Forget quarterback, but if we actually looked at the number of how high the average salary is or the highest salaries of that position, the highest paid positions are left tackle and right tackle, receiver and cornerback and defensive end. And the thing all those positions have in common is it's about succeeding in space. Left tackle, right tackle have to be another athlete like one-on-one

an island. Receivers have to win an island. Cornerbacks have to defend in an island. And basically the positions in the middle, guards, center, detackle, linebacker, safety, all the positions that have to win in the muck, the trenches, are the replaceable ones. And so I guess my question to you guys is the draft, the reason those are the highest

paid positions and the reason those guys high in the draft fundamentally is because the athleticism required to win one-on-one at left-time a receiver and the edges of a football field are so rare that even someone like a Tyler Linderbaum who's good at his job, it's just not important if you can get athleticism at those edge positions either on the line or edge of receiver. Is that a fair reading of it?

I think another way to put it. I think that's fair. That's like an interesting way of looking at it like philosophically or whatever, but I think at the end of the day, it's like those positions, not only are the operating space, but like those are the positions that matter for passing. left tackle, right tackle, receiver, corner. Those are the positions that are either integral in passing and integral in helping the quarterback do a better job or integral in protecting the quarter or in defending against the quarterback in edge rushers and corners.

Like it's either passing or defending the pass. Like those are the most important. Those are the most valuable players in football. Offball linebackers, middle linebackers, they're not as valuable because generally speaking, they're there for defending the run or at least like guys they were playing down in the box or whatever. If you get a guy who can

defend against the past, like he's worth a lot. Like that's actually one of the most valuable linebacker styles that you have out there. So I think that's really at the end of the day, it's like the past. It's not just being in space and being an elite athlete, though that does matter a lot. It's are you valuable in the passing game? That's where the NFL is going these days. That's why

running backs are one of the least paid positions like on par with like punters and kickers these days in terms of how much they're paid. So that to me is the question with Hamilton really comes down to is like how big of an impact is he going to make against the pass? Because box safeties are not highly coveted in the NFL other than you saying Carl Hamilton's a box safety? It depends on how the NFL views him. I think he's got the skill set to play against the pass too. Well, you compared him to Ken Griffey Jr. in the draft guide, so I kind of assumed he's got tons of range. Can you describe what a box safety is?

So box safety generally speaking is a guy who's much more comfortable coming downhill, playing towards the line of scrimmage, you know, defending the run, things of that nature versus like the opposite would be like an Earl Thomas type of guy who you can put him, you can camp him out there in the middle of the field, center field, and trust him to cover elite range, stop to pass, all that stuff. Hamilton, I think, is a tough one because here's why I think it's so, number one, the conversation has changed over the last few weeks. because he ran really slow apparently at his pro day. He ran like a 4-7-something at his pro day, which is a huge red flag if you're going to be asking a guy to be defending the middle-deep field. I don't think that was ever really,

to me, that was never really like going to be what they primarily use him for. Like his value is versatility, being able to line up everywhere on the defense, do different things, be like a Joker piece. He's good in coverage. He's instinctive in coverage. He has range in coverage,

but I never really saw him, at least personally, as like, a prototype center-fielder, single high safety. So to me, his value is less that that he can do that single high thing. And more just he's really instinctive playmakers always around the ball.

It's got good instincts. Those kind of things are what make him so valuable. Has the safety position changed? I remember, you know, growing up, there were a lot of famous safeties. There was Sean Taylor. There was Ed Reed. There was Troy Palomalu.

Doesn't seem like that's really the case anymore. They're not as commercialized. Why is that? Hitting is not as big a part of the game anymore, which is part of it. Yeah. Like, you know, you mentioned a couple of different guys. Like, Cam Chancellor would be another one that recent, like, it was like a big time safety.

And he was just, like, blowing guys up. But, like, the way the rules are changing now, like, safeties just can't do that. Safeties are getting smaller. Teams are lately, at least, over the last few years running a lot more too high stuff. The damn, like, cover two is just killing football. Put Tyreek on the Dolphins. Yeah. Traded Russell Wilson to the fucking Broncos because of two highs.

But yeah, no, I think, you know, that might be a big part of it. What were you going to say, man? I was going to say, right, I think that, like, in terms of, like, big legendary names, maybe it's down, but, like, paying for safeties is way up. And this is the thing that I wrote about when I was writing about Hamilton's value, right? Right now, safeties in the league, you know, highest paid positions, they're between linebacker and tight end. They're right above running back. They're below center.

You know what I mean? It's not good. But when you look at salary growth from 2015 to 2020 of top paid guys, so how fast the top of the market is growing, safety is growing below quarterback, edge, and tackle. That's it. Those are the only three positions that are growing faster right now. So back in 2015, excuse me, in 2016, Tyron Matthew reset the safety market with a $12.5 million deal. That was six years ago. He was the top of the market at $12.5. Since then, that deal, has been beaten by Eric Barry, Landon Collins, Earl Thomas, Eddie Jackson, Buda Baker, Kevin Byard, and then in the 2021 off season,

the market went nuts, Justin Simmons, Harrison Smith, and Jamal Adams all signed for over 15 million. Jamal Adams signed for 17.5 million. And then this, this past off season,

2022, Marcus Williams, who's like a good, deep safety, like a top 10 safety, signed for 17 million per year, the Baltimore Ravens.

Safety is flying up right now. And so while the next, names may not be the same. Teams are telling us with money that they care a lot about how top safeties play. And what it boils down to is, D.K. called Hamilton a box safety. And appropriately so. He's better coming downhill. Land Zerline, Kyle Hamilton, Cam, Chancellor is like the prototypical box safety. But in reality, it's not that Hamilton plays the box so well. It's that he plays the box so well while also being able to play over the slot because he's enormous. So he can gobble you up on your short routes. And then also being able to play deep middle because he's,

He's a great football player with excellent eyes, excellent awareness and good route recognition. So if you get a him and then you get another guy who can play deep, but also can get down in the box and make a tackle and also get over the slot, you don't have two interchangeable bodies. And you cannot play too high without two interchangeable bodies. Because the whole point of too high isn't to stay in too high. It's to show too high pre-snap and then rotate, post-snap to one high.

And if I know who the guy you're rotating to is, it's not as much for a problem. If I don't, now we're cooking. Yeah. Now I'm causing problems. So Hamilton will, well,

eight times out of 10 be the guy who rotates into the box. He's 6, 4, 220s, freaking enormous. He tackles like a linebacker. He can cover tight ends. It's unbelievable. But on those two of 10 times

where he rotates deep, the fact that he's not a liability, and then the other guy he's paired with isn't the liability, allows you to be multiple on defense. And PFFs that all these studies about safety showing that when you have good safeties, you have a high variety.

of defenses you run. And when you have a high variety of defenses you run, opposing offenses struggle. So safeties are force multipliers. They don't play in space like Hyvitz was talking about, but they allow your defense to do a lot more structurally. They open the book for you. And when they open the book,

they make jobs easier on corners, edges, divas of tackles, everybody. Safety is just a cool position. When I was growing up, I always wanted to be like a safety, you know, like they're kind of like prowling out there, like looking to blow people up, looking to jump into passing lanes.

That just seems like a fun position. As an Eagles fan in the 2000s, I wanted to be Brian Dawkins. Yes, exactly. That was my whole player. Same with me and Paul Molle. Even when I would play Madden as a kid, like when you would do the draft your own team, you always wanted to get a cool safety. That was such a priority.

Because then you could use their hand and blows people up. Yeah. I very vividly remember this because I think it has been very interesting how over there, and so like what you're saying about the safety position growing in value, I think that's super fascinating. It tells you a lot about like where the NFL is going to, especially in an era where there's like multiple receiver sets, like three and four receiver sets.

Like, you're going to have to be super versatile if you're a safety because there's going to be times where you're lined up against a slot receiver or a big tight end or whatever. And I think that's so important. But I go back to the, like, I remember this vividly. Daniel Jeremiah tweeted this out. I couldn't find it written anywhere online, but he talked about it on his pod. And it was like he wrote down, he was like taking notes from Bill Belichick back in like the 90s about scouting and like scouting and like scouting different players. And he said this. He said, Belichick told his scouts, you can dominate.

the game from the safety position. And I remember just thinking that, like, wow, that's so crazy because, like, the things that you can do with the safety, it was like a really good safety play. And I watched it coming up

with the Seahawks and Earl Thomas and Cam Chamströmster. They dominated from the safety position. They used to have just, like, a random cornerback, too. You know, it was like Brandon Browner.

Byron Maxwell, baby. Five-year contract from the Philadelphia Eagles for Byron Maxwell. And he, like, he was a huge beneficiary of that scheme, obviously.

And, but it was because they had such good safety play. and they took away, literally they took away the middle of the field for opposing quarterbacks. Like you couldn't attack the middle of the field. Did you see when Bill Belichick was doing the top 100 players and they inducted Ed Reed

and he had the video of he was saying, they had video from 10 years ago of them watching film of what Ed Reed did to Peyton Manning and was Belichick and Brady breaking aside down like 2011. And Bill Belichick said that Ed Reed made this play and Peyton Manning. He said it was the best play had ever seen in like 50 years of being a coach.

I love that. Personally, like me, if you take the giants out of it, my two favorite football plays probably ever are Ed Reed hitting the Colts guy on a punt return and then Sean Taylor hitting the punter in the pro ball. Like, safety's do cool stuff, man. I love how we all reminisced about the great safeties of our youth. And then Hyphitz was just also here on the podcast. I just forgot.

That was, no, you guys were talking and I just was like watching Ed Reed plays in my head. That was just amazing. Okay. I want to just quickly hit speaking of like while they're in the safety, secondary, whatever, there's another guy I want to hit not a safety,

but a cornerback that I just want to just very divisive. I just want Derek Stingley, the cornerback at LSU, I feel like he was pretty widely considered the best cornerback in this draft not so long ago. I mean, so don't you have a number one pick ticket?

I do. And that's not going to cash. But Derek Stingley under 12.5, you can still find it, baby. Go and grab it. Number nine. either going to be Timito or Stingley for my Seahawks. The Seahawks are going to draft somehow like seven different guys at the ninth spot.

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird that they get Malik Willis and Derek Stingley. Like maybe they can take Tyler Linderbom and someone. Trade back. Tyler Linderbom is so little. There we go. They can just get like two players for the price of one. But I just was wondering about Stingley because I feel like he was the best

cornerback. He's been surpassed by Sauce Gardner from Cincinnati. But it's not just that. It's about like a mix of his health. But he had his pro day today. Derek Stingley did fine. All the numbers he hit were the numbers he was supposed to hit.

I guess I'm curious that cornerbacks like this don't usually fall. I know he's only played 10 games the last two seasons. Is it about the health or is the question really kind of like what's he been up to the last two years? I feel like there's also just this question of like

who is this dude? Like why? I don't know. I just weird that this guy has been mocked to a range that you just don't usually see for a cornerback. And I'm kind of curious why you think the variability. because I feel like it's not as black and white as,

well, he hurt his foot, and that's why. I feel like it's not even about his health. I think it's partly about his health. It's partly about why did he not progress in 2020, 2021? Because he was not only maybe the best corner in football in 2019, but he's like maybe the best defender in college football that year. Like he was dominant.

Never forget to remember the SEC freshman of the year that year was Bow Nix, baby. Love us to Bowie. Love that. Average Tim Tebow Cosplayer at Auburn won it over Derek's thing, like just ridiculous. Classic.

So I think that he was, he had injuries. They had a lot of upheaval in the LSU program in general. I think there are similar, there's some similar question marks and,

you know, I don't have any like firsthand knowledge, but this is sort of just like what's out there is, there are teams that have a similar like, is he,

does he love football? Is he hardcore football head kind of deal? Similar to what like Cave on Tibodeau. because alternatively, Soss Gardner, who is the other top corner in this class, is, like,

all about ball. Like, he is the pro, like he's a coach's dream, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, all about football. Like, he sleeps,

he's like going and practicing, like after practice is over kind of guy. And, you know, when you're compared to, like, if you have everything else, more or less being equal,

NFL teams are going to fucking gravitate to that guy. So Soss Gardner to Cincinnati is the Aiden Hutchinson of the cornerbacks. And then he's contracted to the quarterback. Sauce is actually longer than Agent Hodges just like a corner instead of edge. Different conversation.

And I love sauce. I love both these guys. But I think that could be part of it. And yeah, I mean, it's just, hyph is like he says, like,

what have you done lately? Like, it's been two years since we saw like elite, elite level play. Like he was a freshman, a true freshman. He was like 18,

17, 18 years old. Practicing against Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson every day, by the way, which is pretty goddamn good, like, way to sharpen your skills.

And so, I don't know. I'm still very high on him. It does feel like based on everything I've been seeing in like the mock drafts and like, you know, just the whispers, he's going to fall into the teens potentially, which is crazy to me. But that's the nature of the beast. Again, it's like risk management, risk mitigation early in the draft. And teams are going to gravitate the guys who they feel are safe bets to be the type of people that are going to like continue to improve, you know, over the years.

That's all the divisive prospects I wanted to ask you guys about. But also, this is not a divisive prospect, but Traylon Berks, the Arkansas receiver, there was a fun story that ESPN had about him today. So, like, you saw that, right? Like, did you want to talk about that? Trailer's a divisive player because you should be the number one overall pick and the number two overall pick and the number three overall pick. Nobody's talking about this.

The Seahawks can take him at nine with the three players they're going to get. Dude, that would be stoked. From Alex Scarborough, the SBN. Sam Pittman, head coach of Arkansas struggle to come with a proper way to describe Birx. Smart, I'll take you that someone who cares about his teammates, but the word to kept coming back to his country. He hunts wild boars with his dogs,

Pittman said. Scarborough goes on to say, Berks doesn't just fish. He doesn't just hunt deer with a crossbow. He goes out into the woods in search of wild boar with nothing but his dogs and a knife. Essentially what happens is this. Dogs find the hog and corner it. Then another dog is said to hold wild animal in place.

It's true small they turn it loose, but it's big enough to feed them in others time to go in. Emphatically, Burst explained, we do not use guns. using a gun takes the fun out of it he added having a knife it's more oh my god having a knife it's more of a thrill

that you're getting up on a wild boar that could kill you honestly it's just a thrill being out there with your friends and family and having a good time I love the friends and family I have to say it's like very important family doesn't like being out there with your aunt stabbing a boar I'm sorry

I'm sorry I'm sorry wait this is literally what that's what the joker said about killing people, the Harvey dead in the hospital, he was like, do you know why I use a knife? Yeah. Guns make it take all the fun out of it. Drive this guy first.

Yeah. Yes. He goes on to say Birx knows how all this sounds. The average wild bore, by the way, is around 200 pounds. What? Yeah, big two-thirds of a Tyler Linderboh. Can he have a show on the Nature Network or wherever the hell that's called? Some people probably consider me crazy, but that's

how I am. Listen to me. Listen. Listen. That's what I want to be in the trenches with right there, baby.

Character is not hard to figure out. Every's been blowing smoke. Oh, we can't tell a guy I love small. Oh, what do we be?

If there is a player who kills Bores with knives, he's a good football player. Adjust. You know the combine, all the players only get 15 minutes with each team? Do you think that one,

the smart team, the analytics team should just like have a giant board, a room and they hand a guy and a knife. It should be a new event. At the combine.

You just get a guy of knives, put a bore on the floor, baby. Go after it. No, you combine all the events. You have to do all the events to chase the pig. And then at the end, you have to kill the pig. And then we can watch the tape and be like, oh, we hesitated there. He doesn't have the killer instinct. Wow. I love it. Yeah, I just recently watched an interview with Pittman, his coach at Arkansas. And I just like, I already liked Trailand before that, but I was just like, man, I love this guy. Because his coach, who's like got a real heavy southern accent is like, yeah, he's just a country boy.

Like just country, country. You know, like he's just so, I love the idea just grew up in this rural town, hunting feral hogs. You know, and like... Yeah, he was a four-star recruit. He almost went, this is in the piece. He almost went to a D-2 school

because he just liked it. Didn't want to leave home. It's like, it's my area. It's cool. What's the perfect team he could go to then? He shouldn't get Jeff. Yeah. Every, every...

Cowboys. shouldn't go to like the Niners. Every Green Bay fan of my mentions right now is like Green Bay. He's born for Green Bay. Sounds like Green Bay. Pretty sure he don't have hogs in Wisconsin. They're cheap. You can find something with a knife there.

Probably. They might. Yeah. I also just wanted to read this from this is a great story. This is ESPN. This is from Alex Garber. It's really good. I also just wanted to read this little bit, which I enjoyed.

So I guess he played baseball and they basically were like, yeah, great center fielder could run, but, you know, didn't know where the fences were. And then there was this time. He, uh, he literally just. sprinted so far he like was playing left center caught a ball all the way in right center and then looked up and didn't realize he was at the fence and then took the fence down with him and then like he had braces in so he came down his mouth was bleeding from the fence and they are like oh are you all right and he's like got the ball so I just looked up which states have the most

the most hogs and Iowa leads the pack 22 million hogs in Iowa next up North Carolina in Minnesota. So Vikings, Packers, you're right, Ben. Panthers. Wisconsin must have hogs. Did you look up wild hogs or Iowa has 22 million wildhugs or like in the pork industry? I don't think Burks is interested in fighting domestic hogs. I don't think, I don't think.

I don't think of that. Okay, hold on, hold on. You're right. I just looked up hogs. Farrell hogs. You just looked up hogs. Okay, wild hogs. In the United States, there's strongholds in the South. About half of the nation's six million feral pigs live in Texas. I know. They're all in Texas. That's where the Farrell Hogg Bean came from. Dude,

he's not getting past 24. Cowboys love him. That's why the Cowboys, yeah. Yeah. And he's going to hunt hogs at Jerry Jones. And, okay. All right, I like this. I'm sorry.

Becoming succession. By the way, this makes sense. He's country strong. Like, it kind of makes sense that he didn't, like, blow up the combine. You know what I mean? Because he's just like, he's just strong. That's not what he's about. Yeah, he's not about lift.

I'm not trying to get the best at working out. Like, he's just good at sports. You know what I mean? He bench presses 380. This is from Bruce Feldman's Freaks list column. Benches 380, squats 500, and power cleans 320. It's a hell of the young man. I love DECA.

I love you saying he's not here to be the best at working out. I used to have a friend in college who whenever we would chat for too long at the gym, he'd say I'm not here to work out my jaw and then he'd leave. Well, by the way, that's a Kenny Powers quote. He says it to his neighbor guy who's like running a marathon or something. Or he'd say he didn't like running. He'd say he can't flex cardio. The Cardinal Jones.

I'm not here to play school. Okay. All right. Let's get to two jargons at a lie. America's favorite segment. Yeah. Every week we give, Ben Saw, it gives us three pieces of jargon. Two of them are real.

One is fake. If you have your own two jargons at a lie, email us at ringerfinacy football at Gmail.com, and I'm going to make a special request. Please, if you hunt wild boar, even if you're allowed to use guns, email us two jargons that lie about boar hunting. Or just hunting, hunting jargon.

Hunting jargon. There you go. Fantasy Football at gmail.com, it could be grouse. Whatever you want. Two jargons in life for hunting. And today, I think D.K. is bringing the two jargons.

Okay. Okay, okay, cat me in. Yeah. All right. Here we go. The two jargons and a lie, DK. Two jargons, aka idioms, terms, whatever.

NLAX. All right, number one. Looks for work. What? Number two. Oh, okay. Wall dive. Number three, ankle biter.

Looks for work, wall dive, ankle bitter. Looks for work, self-explanatory. wall dive explain it to us though uh looks for work is just like never gets complacent on the field you know he's like a busy body always tries to find like you know places to contribute um wall dive hivis where you at with wall dive i don't know that one i know i know i know i know one of the other ones is real but i actually i don't have any idea what wall dive means or could mean what's the last one again, D.K.

Ankle biter. I'm going to say wall dive is fake because maybe I'm not very smart, but I can't immediately even come up with what that means. Wall dive. Wall dive. I don't actually know what that means. That's not a term anywhere else, right? Oh, he just made a wall dive.

What is that? I don't know. Maybe Waldive means something, and I don't know what it means, but I've never heard wall dive and I'm going to say it's fake. I'm going to say, no, these are all really kind of like, close. classically written, like phrases. I feel like, ankle biter. That's used like, I don't know, I just feel like people say stuff like that,

looks for work. This is a tough one, D.K. Uncle biter is like when you're tackling people and then you're always around their ankles. It's because you're not making good tackles. I don't want to go with wall dive. I'm going to say wall dive is real because it seems too easy. I'm going to go with ankle biters fake. Hi, Fitz. I'm going walldive. I know

for a fact looks for work is real. Yeah. I'm going anchor. So I'm going, I'm going wall dive. I think I got I got Craig on the, like, I psyched you out, basically. Reverse psychology. I think it's like, too far at his own head. Wall dive is not real.

I'm like, you know, like in the final 20 minutes of inception where you're like a dream is in a dream within a dream isn't a dream? That's where I am. I actually can't even see where I'm going. You're all the teams who are like, should we take Kavon, Tibido?

I wanted it to, so like, a wall, like, I saw wall dive, which is, by the way, a scuba diving term. I wanted to like, because, like, you can dive at someone's ankles. You can die, like the wall, like an offensive line is like a wall.

I was thinking like maybe there could be like an offensive line thing there. But at the end of the day, it didn't really mean anything. Looks for work, Craig is like similar to what you're saying. Basically, offensive linemen who are at the second level looking to block, like they're constantly looking to like knock someone's head off basically. Ankle bider is a corner typically who doesn't like to tackle and just dives for the ankles. And it's a pejorative typically. Got it.

Yeah. I got to go with my gut. I got to just hear it. Respond. that's it in scouting typically like your first impression is always the most correct one i really believe in that too just in general i just think always go with your gut and i've i mean you've gone the way from that even when we were kids and you take multiple choice it's like once you have that thing and you're leaning you only change the answer if you know for a fact

that you're wrong yeah but if you if you're on the fence you stick with that gut answer and speaking let's take this let's put this in action we have a tremendous two jargons of lie from Griffin. Griffin. Griffin. Griffin says, I have two football parentheses, soccer jargons and a lie. All of these terms describe

different types of shots on goal. Oh, if Chris Ryan's listening right now, he's going to be yelling at his phone as we just as gross. Yeah, Chris Ryan, again, yeah, when you're listening to a podcast and you know something the hosts don't know, you're basically a ghost. So Chris Ryan, you're about to be a ghost. All right, different types of shots on goal, two jargons

and a lie. Number one, Thunderbasket. Yes, that's real. Do not explain. Number two is, my god wants that to be real. My gut wants that to me. I think that's my new Twitter handle. Lawnmower.

Okay. Low driving. Yeah. Low driving top off the grass. Dink. A dink is like a little bloop, but that might be fake. Yeah, these all sound real.

Thunder bastard is, what do we think that is? Just like an absolute missile of the corner? A piss rod. right at you. Yeah. Thunder bastards,

yeah, gotta be like, that thing breaks the sound barrier. You hear a clap of thunder. Yeah, lawn mower is like a low-line drive that skims the ground and a,

was it a dink? A dink would be like a scoop. I will say dink is fishing jargon. I know that like, when you catch a tiny fish, it's like not a keeper, not even like worth like noting.

It's just a dink. Oh. There are those shots on goal where you kind of like fake the goalie out by seeming like you're going to think it really hard and you just bloop it.

You know when the, I don't know much about soccer but I know, you know, do you remember that old Italian, the goalkeeper who was there forever? Um, Gianluigi, uh, Bufone, Bufon, who they actually, he was a goalkeeper who they actually let him take penalty kicks because he was so good at it. Poutty. Pouty. God damn. I can't say that word. Pounty. Penalty. You can not be a soccer announcer. Can you imagine. Uh, anyway, they let the goalkeeper take pounce. Shit, I did it again. Penal. P.Ks. Why, why are you saying penalty? You can't do it. I just say penalty. I don't know.

Just say the letters in order. You can't do it. It's like me talking to Calvin. Penalty. Say penalty. Penalty. Say the letters in order. That's how speaking works, man.

That's like in Big Daddy, hippopotamus. He's like hip, hip, hip, hip hop, anonymous? Diamond, you give him all the easy ones. His teeth were made of wool. So they let the goalkeeper take P-Ks. And he goes up and he just lobs. You know the goal, you have to guess lesser right? He just kicks the ball, like he throws like a 55 mile an hour fastball.

Like he just kicks it right to where the goalie was and the goalie dives out of the way. Anyway, that to me is like a dink. I think that's what a dink is, like the little like, like, you know, chip shot. I feel like Thunderbastard is too obvious and it is a thing. Like if it would be the obvious joke, not term or whatever, right? My gut was dink. I'm going to go dink. Yeah.

I think lawnmower is fake because we all saw lawnmower and all of us just nodded like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know what that is. People in Britain probably don't even call it a lawnmower. Oh, shit. Do you think they call it lawnmowers in UK? Do they even have grass? What do they got over there? Stones and whatnot. Do people have lawns? I think sometimes we get mixed up where if we can explain the term very quickly, we assume that means it's real. I agree. I think I 100% agree. And I think for that reason, I think lawnmower's fake. Changing my answer. All we're like, that's obvious. Yeah. No, I got to stick in my gut. Dink. You're going with dink. I'm going with lawnmower. I'm saying dink. All right. Let's see here. The answer is I have to open the link.

Oh, boy. And it's taking longer than I thought to open the link and I have it now. I'm Googling if they're a lawnmower, if they're called lawnmowers in England. Lawnmower is the lie. Yes. So, well reasoned, D.K. What are lawns called in Britain?

Well, so I looked up, what is a lawnmower called in England? It says the real or cylinder mower, as it is called in England, shears grass in the same way. Cylinder mower. Come on. The what mower? Cylinder. Yeah. You said it, but I still don't know what the letters are in order.

Cylinder mower? Oh, cylinder moter. Okay. Mower, not motor. Yeah, mower. Cylinder mower. Wait, what did you say they called the lawn, though? I didn't see that.

Hold on. I feel like it's called lawns. I've watched enough Richardson season two to know what they call it lawns still. Do you guys watch Bridgerton? Mayor does. It's the mall. And then I go downstairs and then she goes

to explain it to me. This is a lot that's going on, man. We got problems on problems for people. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I like the Queen, though. She's my favorite character so far. The Queen's great.

I've seen 17 minutes. Oh, man. D.K., it seems as though they're called lawns. And I didn't know this, but lawns are a European invention. Well, there we go. We stole it. It took credit for grass.

Americans. Of course we stole it. Lawns are one of the biggest waste of space and water in the world and nobody should have lawns. I kind of hate. I kind of hate lawns to be honest. They require so much water and maintenance and they don't do anything. Nobody uses them. They sit in front of your house and do nothing.

Just use rocks. Get turf, rocks, bark, whatever you want. My father-in-law is a big lawn guy, so I'm going to preclude myself from this long conversation. You're accusing yourself. Everyone's father-in-law is a big lawn guy, but hopefully in 30 years. We're all those father-in-laws. No one's going to have lawns anymore. Yeah. We're all going to be

big podcast guys. It was like, podcast didn't know space. Ben, you should call him your father-in-law. Oh, hey-oh. Because of jokes. Yeah. Mailed it. Well, all right. That was definitely the end of the podcast right there. A lot of lawn talk. Who would have thought? Not me.

Who would have thought? Look at us. It would have space in the world and they take up space at the end of this podcast. Okay. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Solack. Thank you, Craig. Thank you to Solex father-in-law. Thank you to Alex Scarborough for writing about Traylon Burke's murdering pigs with knives. Thank you to all the pigs who've given your lives. Thank you, Jason Segal for the...

Sorry, I'm sorry! Thank you, Lauren. Pellty. Thank you, dear tick. Who? Deer tick. You know what we should play a new game. Two bands, one lie. You guys would get everyone wrong.

Deer tick sounds like. I do not think that's a real thing. Who named a band Deer Tick? Are Deer Ticks real things? Yeah, deer tinks are nasty little critters. Are they? You're getting Lyme disease from a deer tick. A tick is a deer tick. No, there's multiple types of ticks.

Deer Ticks are the most common. Oh. Okay, yeah. Yeah. You all got to spend more time in the backwoods of central Pennsylvania. Tell you what. I was going to say, that's a, Craig, once again, just living in, you know, just the luxurious California coast doesn't know what deer ticks are.

Great place to live. sunny. It's 80 out right now. I just picture you went to that. What's that high school? What's the young Heath Ledger movie? Ten things I hate about you. I just picture you at that. Breakfast club. Hyvich, do you want to know the name of my high school? Oh no. What?

California High School. Oh, you? No fucking way. Highfitz, you just mentioned ten things I hate about you. That high school that they filmed that at. By the way, it's in Tacoma, where I went to college. I went and practiced there when I was on the PLU football team very briefly. Wait, really? Yeah.

You practiced at that stage? That's the stadiums on the ocean. It was called Stadium High School at the time. I don't know if it is anymore. It's like this giant mansion. It's sick. All right. If you've never seen or if you have seen things about,

I hate about you, you know it. And if you haven't, you should probably see it. Shut out California high school. Yeah, it's literally just on the water. You practice at this field. This is beautiful.

Yeah, look at the pictures of the high school. It's like this crazy, cool looking thing. Looks like somewhere. Who built this? And Bruce Wayne was like, I want to put a high school here. It is Bruce Wayne. It's like Bruce Wayne sponsored high school.

who built? I'm kind of just on this Wikipedia. I don't know if people are still listening. I'm just on this Wikipedia now. Why are designed by Hewitt and Hewitt in 1910? What? That's a very cool building. All right.

I'm going to learn more about this. That's what the rest of my day is going to go. There you go. Okay. Anyway. All right. Thank you for listening. Shout out to whoever built this.

I don't know why you get that. Okay. Goodbye.