The Ringer NFL Show - Trade for Giants (Seriously). Plus: Eagles Optimism, Sneaky Amari Cooper, and More Trade Deadline Targets.

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

We go through our top trade targets as the fantasy trade deadline approaches, talk about why the Giants are the buy-low team of the season, and show optimism for the rest of the NFC East. Then we debate the players who have the biggest gap between their fantasy and real-life values before getting into some bad beats. Trade Targets: Raheem Mostert, 49ers (3:30) Miles Sanders, Eagles (5:23) D'Andre Swift, Lions (8:30) James Robinson, Jaguars (13:15) Keenan Allen, Chargers (16:52) DeVante Parker, Dolphins (20:15) Amari Cooper, Cowboys (24:35) Darius Slayton, Giants (25:10) Evan Engram, Giants (27:55) Noah Fant, Broncos (29:10) Fantasy vs. Real-Life Players' Value (31:00) Bad Beats (46:15) Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's episode of the Ringer Fantasy Football Show, we give you our trade targets to help you for the rest of the season, including, no, I'm just kidding. You have to listen to the episode. Also, we run through the players who are better in real life than in fantasy, plus the players who are better in fantasy than real life, and we judge Craig for being left-handed. Stick around.

Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Heifitz, and I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlebeck. Are you guys ready for a fun fact? Yes. Okay. So obviously we know Well this one

Wait did you say no to the fun fact Go ahead go ahead How dare you Too late he already started Yeah it's too late We're we're It's like the Oh no

I forgot the name of the movie Oh my God This is a disaster You haven't seen any movies It goes back for his cell phone Harold and Kumar And he's like it's too far We've come too far

Anyway Ring your Fantasy football Atgummail.com email us So obviously we know Tom Brady took Drew Bledso's Starting quarterback job Like 20 years ago

We also know that Tom Brady's had great success with Josh McDaniels as the offensive coordinator in New England for like 10 years, 15, depending on you count. The funny part is Drew Bledsoe's post-NFL career is all about winemaking. He owns vineyards and stuff. His business partner is named Josh McDaniels. That is funny. That's weird. I think it's ridiculous. Does he have his own, does he make his own wine?

Does he borrow his own wine? Yes. Yes, they do their own wine. it's called doubleback. It's actually nice. The bottles go for like $100 a pop. Is this SpondCon? Cabernet Sauvignon's.

I don't know if I'm saying that right. I'm not fancy. But yeah, I thought that was unbelievable. Thank you to Ben for that fun fact. Drew, it sent us a couple bottles, man. Yeah, we're just shouting you out. Like, come on, I mean, I think, yeah.

We thought you were better than Brady. I like your Josh McDaniels. Way better. Okay. But enough about Vineyards, please. Let's help you win your leagues. Let's go at the trade targets. Wait, was that supposed to rhyme?

I tried, yeah. You said it smoothly, but I thought the actual verbiage was like the cadence of the verb it. Oh, that's all right. I'm not going to lie. I actually practiced that one before because I was hoping to get the cadence right. Oh, that's nice. I feel bad.

I usually just tried to do it on the fly. But anyway. All right, so we're looking at trade targets today. ESPN's trade deadline is coming up. It's November 21st. The Yahoo deadline, the default deadline has already passed, but I think a lot of people push it later, right? Because I think you're going to,

people generally want it, like, later in the season closer to, like, Thanksgiving and stuff. A lot of Dynasty League still have trade deadlines coming up, too. So hopefully this will help it a little bit in that, in that world, too. Okay. This is going to be a trade deadline talk, but it's also just a rubric for us to talk about some players that we think are going to have good finishes. If your trade deadline is passed, it's not like this is useless information, I'll put that way. So, yeah, let's go position by position because I think that's generally how people think about

this, right? Like, I need a running back. I need a receiver. So, DK. Or Craig, I don't know. Who wants to go first? Running back? Craig, you go first because I like yours a lot.

Okay, the first guy I think you should try and trade for before the deadline is up is is Rahim Mostert on the Niners. So the Niners have a buy this week. But I think that's exactly why you should do it and you may be able to get him at a cheaper price. If you can afford this, like if your team is doing all right enough to where you can trade somebody away and then sit Mostert for a week, I think he's worth it. He's been on IR for a while, what he's expected to be ready to go by week 12. Mostert's been the RB9 this year when he's been on the field.

And the Niners backfield is just absolutely devastated. It's hasty just broke his collarbone. Jeff Wilson's on IR. McKinnon, it seems like they don't want to give him more than eight touches a game. The Niners, they're not looking like a team that's tanking. They're still very much in a lot of these games. And they have the ninth easiest strength of schedule for running backs going forward. And most are just really good.

Like every time he plays, he clearly looks like one of the top ten backs in the league. Yeah, he's so much better than any other back on that team. It's like very, very clear. soon as he gets hits the field. He just, like lightning, man. He just goes downhill,

so fast. I think he's one of the fastest players in the NFL. Like, he's been clocked with some of the fastest times in the NFL. Yeah.

I don't love that stat because it's like one of those where the, to me it doesn't mean he's the fast. I mean, he's really fast. But it really seems the nineers are huge holes,

right? Because it means he's getting to, he got the best opportunity. Yeah, he's the one getting to full speed because, and that's really the, the thing is that the Niners

consistently get these guys yards before contact. And to your point, Craig, ton of touches. He had a lot last week. He had like 18 carries last week. But I think part of that was because Hasty went down. I think it was kind of early in the game. I don't think that's their desired game plan to be giving McKinin and all those touches. And also just, most just been amazing when he's played. So I like that a lot, especially with, it's probably a little easier

to trade for people on their biweek. So I like that. I honestly really do think it's that the biweek thing helps you a lot if you can, if you can withstand it. Anyone else? Yeah. My other one is Miles Sanders running back on the Eagles. I think he had a decent game last week. He had like 85 yards in a fumble. He had like 12 points. But I think that's kind of muted enough to where you could make a relatively decent trade

and get him back. You know, he's not like Dalvin Cook or anything like that. But he's been pretty damn good every time he plays. He pretty much, he hasn't exploded because of the touchdowns kind of haven't been there.

But like he hasn't had less than 75 yards in any game this season, which is pretty impressive playing for the Eagles. His week 15 and 16 matchups nice Arizona and Dallas. And in general, if I had to expand this to like other positions, if you want to pick a by-low team, people have been saying this for a few weeks now, but it does look like it should be the Eagles.

I don't know if it will be the Eagles, but it should be the Eagles. Why, because everyone thinks they suck? Yeah. That is the definition of a by-low. Well, and like, you know, they've been playing terribly. They just lost to the Giants. But, like, everybody in their team is so talented and they're finally getting healthy offensively.

Goddard is like very talented. He's still getting ranked. Like if you look at all the expert consensus rankings for the rest of the season and for last week, Goddard's like a top five, top seven guy. It didn't happen last week. I think you still got a hope. Folgum is a good by-low.

Jalen Regger could be a good by low. Erz is going to come off higher at some point next few weeks possibly. The Eagles have the number one easiest strength of schedule for receivers for the rest of the season. I think it would be worth trading for some Eagles. So I like this because last week in that Giants game,

you had Corey Clement came in, got a touchdown in his only carry. Boston Scott got a touchdown like early on one of his few carries. And that's, so on one hand, you're like, well, why would I want Miles Sanders? The reality is touchdowns are freaking random. And if you're looking at the thing, it's very easy to envision Miles Sanders getting the two touchdowns next time and that you're swooping in right before that happened. So how would you value him? Like if the person's like, I don't really want to give up Miles Sanders, are you valuing him as like top 10 running back, top 20? Like, what are you envisioning here for?

And also, who do you like more, Sanders or most? Sanders, I think, because he's more involved in the receiving game. I think he maybe has a little bit of a higher floor. Yeah. But the only tough thing about trading for a guy who just got off the injury list is like, you know how, if you're just like a fantasy manager, you've been waiting all this time for your player to come back, and then he finally comes back, and then someone's like, can I have him?

Yeah. It's harder. That's true. I'm the one who waited. The endorphins from watching and play have worn off, though, perhaps. And also the Craig, the by week thing is interesting because some players, some teams might need a guy this week. No, I think Craig's right. When I have a guy that I've been on IR, it's not just, there's the emotional element of like,

I've been envisioning how my lineup will be better when he comes back for like a month. Put in the hard work, you waited. Yeah, and it's like, I just waited. I'm going to let you be good on your team. Like, go to hell. And you're going to drop off some person on my doorstep. I don't know who this person is. I don't know if they're good.

Yeah. I haven't been paying attention to them. That's true, actually. Okay. So if you get snit most of it, but the person who has them is probably emotionally attached. I like those too. D.K., do you have any other running back thoughts?

I think that in terms of the rookie running back group, DeAndre Swift, to me, looks like he's going to have a big, like, stretch run for this schedule. There was reports before the Lions games last week that he was going to be the starter. He came out, got his first start in the NFL. Obviously, the Lions have been using a rotation with Adrian Peterson, didn't carry on Johnson, but he got the vast, vast majority of the touches in this game and absolutely went off. Like, he looked legitimately really good.

Very quick, explosive, physical. There was one where he kind of like knifed through the line and then leapt over a defender. Dude, yeah, was that where he ran the route and like didn't break the guy's ankles, but like completely separated him on the route, caught the pass and then trucked a guy into the end zone. And I was like, we didn't name for that. When you break, when you like can separate and break your guy's ankles and then trucks someone on the same play, like shake and bake.

I don't know what we call that. But that's like a combo. It's like when you get a home run and a steal and a baseball game. Yeah. There needs to be a name for that. But yeah, he looked really impressive. And my thing with Swift the whole time was, is he going to get the touches?

Because he didn't really ever have average more than like 15 touches a game in college. And I was like, there's no question about his talent. Maybe the key here is that guys who don't get touches in college are good. Antonio Gibson and Andrew Swift. Trout on the tires. D.K., I want to ask you about Swift because he's obviously been, he's going up, right? He's at the highest point.

His stock right now is at the highest point. Right. So if you were going to trade for him, or more importantly, if somebody was going to trade him away, you'd have to offer them a handsome sum. Where would you rank DeAndre Swift right now in the group of running backs

for the remainder of the season? Is he top 10, 12, 15? I would say probably right in the range of like that 12 to 14. If you can get him for like Todd Gurley, I know that that's like a different like world because Gurley is the most boring fantasy player this year and Swift is exciting or whatever, but I think it's like that range of guys if you could get him for

a Gurley or maybe like a Kareem Hunt. Guys like that, I think Swift has a higher ceiling than either of those guys. Those other guys might have a higher floor just because you don't know exactly how it's hard to trust the Lions, honestly, and it's still hard. Yeah, a lot of the kids know that well. Yeah, and I mean, he was one of eight running backs this last week to play 70% of their team snap. So it's not like, you know, that volume is relatively rare that we saw this last week.

If they keep giving him that, especially with how he was playing, he has really good upside. And the schedule down the stretch for the Lions is relatively light in terms of defenses. They're at Carolina. They're defense bad. They're versus Houston, which is one of the worst defenses in the NFL. They go to Chicago. That's a tough game. Green Bay, the defense there isn't great.

Tennessee, the defense isn't good. And then the last game of the year, they play Tampa Bay, so that's not ideal, obviously. But I just think, man, he looked incredible. He looks so good. If they're finally going to use him, like, everyone's just wanting him to, then I think this is a really good opportunity. The other thing is you could maybe try and convince people that you're selling him high, that the lions are unreliable, that they're going to go back, you know, whatever. Like, if you're one of those people that tries to, like, butter people up when you're trading with him, that's another way.

Look, I'm willing to buy high right. Reddenbocker. Look, I'm willing to buy high on Swift. Would you rather have Swift or Zeke Elliott the rest of the season? Swift. I feel pretty confident about that. Miles Sanders.

I mean, that's, to me, those are in the same sort of range. I probably lean Sanders a little bit and most are, but Swift to me is like right there. Even most, even with the coming off fire, you'd rather have Mostover Swift. I'd rather have Swift than C-E-H. I don't know if that's like a bold statement at all, but I have a bold statement.

He's not good enough to get the initial treatment. He needs the Clyde Edwards Elair. He doesn't deserve the initial treatment until he's like really fucking good. Right. Okay. I agree with that. Like D.K. Metcalfe. I don't know what the D&K stand for.

I never will because you know what. It's Dekalin. It's awesome. Is it really? Yeah. Oh, well, I kind of wish I didn't know that, to be honest. That's cool. Seems DeKalin.

Yeah. I kind of wish I just knew it was DK. It's also fun fact. I'm pretty sure this is the fact. The reason you don't, the reason, the reason you don't, the reason, the reason you don't put a period after D and K in his initials is because it's Dekalin is one word. It's one name. Oh. Oh, that actually, that is a great explanation. Wow. And if you look at his name, the K in DeKalin is actually already capitalized. The D and the K are capitalized in his name.

Yeah. Do you know his middle name is Zakalian Zoccarius Metcalf? What a name. What a king. He sounds like a superhero. Yeah. He's the best. Anyway, the point is we're not, we're not abbreviating C.EH anymore. It's Clyde. It's Clyde. D. K. Let's go the other way. You're selling high on anybody. Yeah, so sticking with the rookie running backs, and I love James Robinson, I think he's an awesome player, and he's got a good future in this league, and he's clearly been really great this season.

Wow, this is a compliment sandwich if I've ever heard one. But. Having said that. No, but I was just going to say, like, if you look at the schedule for the Jaguars down the stretch, it is fucking brutal. Like the hardest schedule of any team in the NFL. I'm just going to read it off to you. Think about the defenses that they're about to play.

Pittsburgh, Cleveland. Cleveland is like, whatever. Minnesota's been playing way better lately. Tennessee is like the only bad defense on this group. Baltimore, Chicago, and Indianapolis. So Pittsburgh. That's the championship weekend. Yeah.

So is this like, I love Robinson. I think he's great. Is this the guy that you really want to trust in the playoffs? Is my question? Especially when you can get like a, a pretty damn good player for him right now, I think. If people, especially if people are not paying attention to like his playoff schedule or whatever.

So to me, that is the only thing I would say is he's the like perfect sell high candidate because he's still going to produce down the stretch. But I mean, he's got some really tough opponents down the stretch. Robinson's like the perfect example of people, someone that people don't want to trade away because you found him for free. You got him for nothing. You just picked him up top five running back in your lineup. That is the last player.

You're like, oh, I'm going to give away the top five running back I found. Well, here's the key. You're not giving him away. You're getting a damn good player back for him. I think you could get a legit player for him. So, you know, like, if you want to do the name game, like, would you trade Josh Jacobs? Maybe not. Like, he's in the same range as, like, it's scoring right now.

He's in the same range as Derek Henry. I don't know if anyone would trade. The only argument against this that I'm going to ask you about is he's getting all of their care. to the point that it's not like what McCaffrey did last year, but in a way that's the closest analog. Because he has 155 attempts for the Jaguars this season. Do you know who's next? No, I'm not counting quarterbacks.

You know what non-quarterback is next? 155 for Robinson. I want to go Chanel. Yes. Do you know how many Chanel has for carries? Seven. 11. Chris Thompson has seven.

Like every other running back for the Jaguars combined has 18. he has 155. Like he is the backfield. I get that. I mean, if he's going to turn into David Montgomery, it makes sense to trade him now.

The other thing that worries me, and I, hyphids, I totally get that. And you know what? He's not like, if you don't trade him away, it's not like you're going to have

a bad player in your team. I'm just saying, like, it gets tough. And the, and the Jaguar's offense is going to fucking struggle. It's going to be,

it's going to be brutal. So that's the only thing I'm saying. The other thing is he's not that involved in the passing game. Like, he has like four catches here. you know, and they're very, I guess he does have...

He's Luton Free. He does have two receiving touchdowns on the year, but generally speaking, he's not like a big part of their passing game, so yeah, I don't know. First of all, we're not calling him Jake. We're not calling him Luton free anymore. Sal called him Vladimir Luton,

and I like that a lot better. Okay. But yeah, I don't love Vladimir Luton against the Steelers defense and the Ravens and the cult, so I think that's a good point. If you do trade James Robinson, get somebody fucking good, though.

Okay, so trade away James Robinson. trade for Miles Sanders, trade for Rahim Moster, trade for DeAndre Swift. Wide receiver time. You can hit us with some wide receiver knowledge. All right. So this one's pretty obvious, but I was just thinking over the last few weeks,

I've gotten a million trade offers for Devante Adams. Devante Adams is like the guy everybody wants. And for fucking obvious reasons, he's like a stud. He's the league winning receiver. I've gotten so many offers. I'm like freaking beating people away with a stick like get away from me I'm not giving him up the other guy that I would the only other guy that I probably put in that category is keen and Allen I think keen and Allen is this is clearly sort of like an obvious one but he's like a good

buy high candidate that could like win you your league especially if in your league he's stuck on some bad team you know and you could maybe like trades like two or three like role players for someone and just needs to get more points every week or whatever, just fill out their roster. So the other thing to kind of consider here is he's coming off of relatively like weak game. He had three catches for

39 yards. He did score a touchdown, but you might have the chance to catch like fantasy managers sort of wavering on like how he's going to be down the stretch. Like Herbert didn't have that great of a game against the dolphins. And Alan to me is right in that same Devante Adams

slate. He has the second easiest slate of opposing defenses too from week six from week 11 through week 16 so i'm excluding week 17 he's got the jets the bills the bills whose defense has not been very good the patriots the falcons and the raiders on deck so not only does he have herbert who's just been slinging other pretty much every other game except for this last one he's got like a really good slate of easy defenses going up against and he has the most absurd target rate, you know, Herbert is locked in on him almost every game. So anyways, that's, that's kind of like my pitch.

I think he's the type of guy, he's like that Devante Adams, like, if you want to go for the gusto, Keenan Allen is the guy. So how would you rate him? Like, you think secretly in your head, you're like, oh, I'm going to, I know he's going to be a top 10 receiver, but I'm going to try to get him like he's a top 20 guy. I think he's going to be like a top two receiver. Really? Like, he's Devonte and him going to be Devonte and Keenan.

So this is like Apple stock. Like it's at an all time high, but. screw it like it's only gonna go up i won't give you a name game then because you just did it holy crap so when you said that before like devonty keating like you really think it's devonting keon and the rest of the season one two if i had to guess right now i think i would yeah okay that's a salty spatoon that is a salty spoutoon that's really good is it is it is it i feel like it's like not that salty i mean he's like the way he's produced no i i like it's salty okay i like craig can you match that no super weeding

I'm going with somebody who has been a little slow, Devante Parker on the Dolphins. Rest of season, no Preston Williams, most likely. They traded away Isaiah Ford. And I'm banking on, you know, Tua playing more games, getting a better feel for it, developing better chemistry with his best receiver, Devante Parker.

Parker's logged four straight games with single digits. But last week he, like, had a touchdown. He literally had a touchdown. They called that away, so that would have probably changed the perception of his last few weeks. He's had like seven targets a game with Tua. And this is just like a bet on talent thing. His schedule is not particularly scary.

They play Denver, the Jets, the Bengals, the Chiefs, Pat's, Vegas, and then Buffalo. I appreciate you being impartial here, but you're kind of leaving out that you're obsessed with Devante Parker. Like, I'm like a professional and a personal level. Like, he's your favorite player. I do think he's fantastic. I think he's in that.

I would put him in at the lunch table with Alan Robinson as like really underrated number one ride receivers. Do they wear like Pink on Wednesdays? Can we sit with them? They're wearing not their quarterback's jersey because they hate their quarterbacks. I saw this actually on sharp football stats.

Craig, they have the easiest schedule of past defenses from week 11 through 16. So that's good for Tua. That's really good for Devante. I like this one a lot. This one to me is a little bit bold in the sense that like you said,

he hasn't had like a lot of production over the last few weeks. This is like a true like I want to make a difference for my fantasy team here. I'm going to make a bit of a bold trade and like bet on regression and like development with Tua. What have you guys thought of Tua the last couple of games? I thought he's been. I thought he's like pretty good too. Unbelievable.

Like he's just first of all, I'm a sucker for the lefty rollouts. I am every time it, I feel like a goldfish. Every time it happens, I'm surprised. I don't care how many plays I've just seen. I'm like, oh my God, look at the angle. Like it came across the defender at the, like it's just every time. It's all, like, maybe that's how golden retrievers are and they're just happy all the time. As a left-handed person, I feel a kinship anytime.

Are you left-handed? I am left-handed. I'm very, I'm very prejudiced against left-handed people. Yeah, I love watching lefties do stuff. It's great, except we can't, there are a few things we can't do. My brother, we've discovered, I mean, he's a righty, but we realized that, like, when he turned, like, 18, that he's not a righty, he just raised as a writing. And every sport does wrong. His handwriting's wrong.

Like, he just should have been a lefty, and my parents never really noticed. and that he's not good at certain things unless he does it with his left hand. Also, it's just like his birthday, the day this comes out, happy birthday Michael, but yeah, yeah, he's Ben Simmons, basically. I want to ask you, Craig, are you one of those people that, like, throws lefty, rights, lefty, but then bats righty or kicks righty or whatever? Yeah, that means that you were just raised wrong. Everything that I have to do with one hand, I use with my left.

However, if I use two hands, I do do it with my right. But here's the thing. Do you do the things with your left or right that, like, one hands for things, you were taught and won hands for things that you did on your own, you learned? I do nothing with my right hand. Like, eat. Like, I eat with my left hand. I write.

I throw. I shoot. I, you know. Are you goofy foot, like on skateboarding or snowboarding? Do you do any of those? Goofy foot? Is goofy foot when your left foot's forward or you're right? It's when your right foot is forward.

No, I'm normal then. The reason why I think I swing things with two hands righty is because you mimic your, like, your dad or your mom or whoever's teaching you a sport. And, like, I think it's like as your dad teaches you how to swing, Like he swings righty with you and you're like, he's not going to like teach you how to swing backwards if he's righty. So I think that's why I hold things right handed, but I do everything naturally left-handed.

Okay, well, hopefully you can hold on to Devante Parker. This is definitely going off the rails, but to get it all the way back, Tua is actually right-handed. His dad just forced him. He's Raphael Nadal? His dad forced him to the throw lefty when he was a kid. I think I knew that.

I just forgot about it. Like, you know, Rafael Nadal is like that. He's just the right. He's like, yeah, just be the best tennis player and left. That's fine. That's crazy.

So Tua's looked really good. To recap this like way too long conversation. Two has looked really good. I like Devante Parker a lot as a bylaw because he fits every candidate of it. Like, do people who have them are frustrated? I mean, just he should have connected to it by now he hasn't,

but there's not really a reason for it. I like that one a lot. Can I throw out two receiver ones at you that you? They're kind of half-baked thoughts and I want to talk to them out with you guys. Sure. Darius Slayton and, and Amari Cooper as trade targets.

And they're both extremely flawed. Amari Cooper, basically my thinking is it depends on like the person who has him. But I feel like there's a chance that they've reached maximum frustration with this person they drafted very high. And that if they're frustrated, I'm kind of wondering about he's just going to get so many targets and I have a little hope for the Cowboys to get a little better over the rest of the season.

I also feel like I'm crazy to be suggesting like you should go get someone who's going to be catching passes from Andy Dalton and or Garrett Gilbert the rest of the season. And the other person is just Darius Slayton where it's like the Giants schedule is like so easy for the rest of the season. And Slaten should have so many touchdowns that haven't materialized yet.

And I feel like they're going to come in bunches over November and December. But am I crazy? You know what's funny about Amari Cooper? So I was going through like just looking around at players for potential like trade deadline targets and stuff. I looked at Amari Cooper's like fantasy stat line. Since Dak got hurt, he's only had one game

under double digits. Like he's been very steady. Like if this is his floor, I'm actually kind of bullish on it because it's like, I mean, that's a pretty high floor considering all the Mishagas

they've had to go through. He's had 17, 12, 1, and 10. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's why I'm kind of intrigued about it. So anyway, obviously that depends on how frustrated the person who has it, you know,

is feeling with him. You're trying to get someone who's kind of, you know, wants to get on a true, like, I don't know if it's Galaxy Brain, but this is like a real contrarian idea and I like it. I like the Slate in one too, Danny.

How are we feeling? What's the temperature on the Giants? They're going to make the playoffs, aren't they? I think the Giants are the best team in the NFC East. No, no, in all seriousness. I actually think, obviously, like, the odds of it are not more likely than not, because there's fucking four teams still in the race. But I do think that if you made me answer right now,

I think the Giants host the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and host Tom Brady in a playoff game. Like, I actually think they win the division. Because has an 0-1-5 team ever made the playoffs before? Oh, I've been. I bet almost, I bet no way. No way, right? But I think the Giants could win the division at seven and seven and nine. I think there's a chance and the most fun version would be that they host a playoff game

at six and ten. Oh my God. But that's kind of my dream. And to beat Tom Brady as a six and ten Giants team, that would be my Super Bowl. But I think that they are the best coach team. They're the best coach team in the division. And there's not really a question about it in my mind. Like they're playing hard.

And the thing with Slayton is that he's really good. And Jason Garrett, the sneaky story of the season is that. that Jason Garrett is doing a great job over the last month with the Giants. Like scheming players open. Danny Jones is not always seeing people, but I'm kind of into Darius-Layton over the last month because I think that there's a, you know, he's basically had a couple 20-point games that haven't really materialized, but they're waiting in the way. Dude, you remember when you remember last year?

I think it's been lost a little bit in the ether because Daniel Jones has fallen off a cliff this year. But there was a few games last year where people were like, is this guy the next fucking Tom Brady? Like he had like five touchdown game late in the year. I think you had a four touchdown game in another game and just went freaking like nuclear on people. Is there a chance you could see them do that this year? Like they got Cincinnati after they have to buy this week.

Then they get Cincinnati and Seattle and Arizona. Like that three weeks stretch that three week stretch alone might be worth trading for Darius Slateon. On that note, I also want to talk about tight ends because I want I think on the note Darius Sladen, Evan Ingram for the same reason because the tight end position is obviously a wasteland. and basically if you have Travis Kelsey, congratulations, you probably are just as annoyed about the people who want to trade for them.

Like, DKs about Devante Adams or like, everyone go away. I'm not trying to get 12 offers for Kelsey. No way. But if you don't have Travis Kelsey, which is most people, I think that you should try to capitalize on the conversation we had earlier this week

about how the positions of Wasteland, everyone's the same, like Hawkinson and Fant and Engram and all them had combined nine points. And it seems like they're all the same, but they're not. Because you want the guys who are actually part of their offenses going forward

and I think it's worth capitalizing on Engram and Fant, basically because if you look at just tight end targets of the last month, Evan Engram has the most over the last four weeks, like more than Travis Kelsey. He's looked good. Most importantly, the Giants are trying to get the ball in his hands.

Like the Giants are really trying to give him the ball, slating in him are clearly like the straws that are stirring the drink of his offense. And it's just going to hit eventually. Like he's coming off a game that two catches for 15 yards, so I don't think you're going to have to pay. through the nose to get him. But he leads the position in targets.

And we're talking about how hard it is to get tight ends who have targets. I don't think you have to get it. Pay a ton to get Evan Ingram. And I feel the same way about Noah Fant. It's talent. And I would just bet on someone who's probably sick of him. It's like if there's another team, they must have a backup title under the roster because fans been hurt so much.

And if you have, you can get Fant and they're like, they're probably in their mind. They're already thinking, do I play fan? Do I not? I don't know. If you come around and Alphram from like a good backup receiver or whatever,

someone might take it for someone who's like, I'm not going to play this guy anyway. but realistically, Fant and Engram are going to give you a better odds going forward of hitting than like the random tight end lot or you're playing each week on streamers, which, you know, it's freaking random. So I'd rather do the randomness with the guys getting targets. So I think Fant, Angram, and even Hawkinson, if you have to play, you know, I think all those guys I would go target.

I feel like, so tight ends is always a little bit hot and cold in terms of what they're doing, but I don't even really, I don't even think I realize that how much they're targeting Evan Ingram. He's had games this year. he's had one game with eight targets. He said one game with nine targets and three games with ten targets this year. Yeah. It's not converting yet. But this offense is, I really think the Giants are about to start clicking.

And I think there's a 50% chance that Craig cuts that phrase and just drops it in episodes. And like the next month is the Giants flail and drown. And they're awful. And he's just like, I really think the Giants are going to click over the next month. But I kind of do. Like, I think that at some point over the next three weeks, you're going to have a conversation with someone where it's like, Jason Garrett's good. So we'll see.

This is crazy and I love it and I'm convinced and I'm now thinking like, God, should I try and trade for like sleep or something? Joe Judge, baby. Now is the time. They got a buy week. Yeah, do it before. Do it before it's cool. Okay. Any other things we want to hit here?

I could not think of a tight end that you want to trade for. So I'm just going to, I'm going to co-op yours. Perfect. I literally looked at this for like 15 minutes. I was like, I don't know if there's anybody I'd recommend. Okay. I also want to ask, we got a great email. Again, you can email us whatever you're thinking, Ring your Fantasy Football at Gmail.com. We got an awesome email from Gordon that I actually want to talk out with you guys. This is from Gordon. Here's a question for the pod. Which current player's overall reputation is most distorted by their fantasy value? In other words, which players have the biggest gaps between their real life value and their fantasy value? This came to mind because of the way you guys have been talking about Drew Breeze, the last. few weeks. He's like fantasy-wise, he's clearly not very exciting anymore.

I mean, this is before he got hurt, so it's kind of moot. But he's pointing out, you know, James had this title probably last year, and then Blake Bortles around 2015. He was good in fantasy all from real life. I don't know. What do you guys think about this? This is, yeah, this is the Blake Bordel's Memorial Award because Bortle's was terrible at football and pretty decent in the fantasy world.

So I guess let's let's start with the guys that are better in fantasy than they are in real life at real life football. Who's the first person that comes to your mind? I have a hot take. This could get me like excommunicated from the ringer. Kyler Murray. I mean, I mean, it's like, I know he just threw a freaking Hail Mary, so it's like bad timing. It's only because, I mean, he's the number one quarterback in fantasy and he's not the number one.

He's not even close. My issue is that he's an MVP can't. He's not. I have to, like, this is where I have to burst the bubble. The rushing's been very good. Obviously, he has many touchdowns and part of this is a dumb argument. But now you're wrong, though. He is.

What? He's a MVP candidate. I guess he's like first he's four he's four the Cardinals are first place in the NNNNC the West the wind out of my sales here but realistically he's not that been that great of a passer this year

and the rushing has completely made up for it but I think the rushing is distorted in fantasy because the stupid speaking of dumb fantasy rules you know it's even dumber than PPR passing touchdowns aren't worth six points which is insane we don't have to get into that here but he has 12

what is 10 touchdowns this season rushing that's distorting the thing with like why he's worth so much in fantasy football. He is a top five NFL quarterback. I think it's fringe, to be honest, although I could get burned for that. I'm fine with that. I thought you were going to say he was like 12.

Honestly, I'm probably, don't even believe he's top five. He's probably top seven in my mind if I actually range people. This is actually something I was talking to Riley McAtee and Ben Glickson, two ringer editors. And Ben is a huge Tua fan. So we were talking about Tua,

and Riley was throwing a little bit of cold water on Tua's performance over the last few games, which I think is fair. You know, he's, he's looked intriguing, but not like, you know, it's not like he came out guns blazing and looked like the best quarterback ever. And we were talking about Tua and we were talking about Burrow and, you know, and Herbert and like, who's the best rookie quarterback so far, blah, blah, blah. Kyler Murray is actually has a worst passing grade in PFF than Joe Burrow. He is slightly ahead of Justin Herbert and he's well ahead of Tua.

So I don't know. I guess my point is like, Kyler, his passing grade from PFF, and that's not obviously the end-all BL, but I do think it's like a pretty solid representation of like how they've done as a passer is league average. Can I make an argument that's going to make me sound dumb, but I believe it and I actually think I'm right, even though it sounds stupid.

I don't think Kyler's great at comebacks. And I know that's a really stupid thing to say after he just threw a fucking Hail Mary touchdown. But I'm just saying, if you actually watch the drive and keep in mind that Hail Mary's don't happen like 90s. 6% of the time. He didn't handle the drive well.

Like, I know that's an insane criticism to have, but I don't know. Anyway, the point is that he wasted all the time and the, like, he got lucky. And it was great, but it's a better play from DeAndre Hopkins to be. He's great, but I actually don't think, I think that the cool highlights he's made actually paper over the play-to-play performance he's had. And will for a long time. That's all I'm trying to say in terms of better and real lifeers fan, or fantasy in real life. This is exactly what Russell Wilson faced for like the first three or four

years of his career. He's a, he's a sandlot player. You can't play in structure. You can't play from the pocket, all that stuff. That's probably true with Kyler. And I think over his career, he's obviously going to have to lean less on his explosive running ability because he gets slower as you get closer to 30. But yeah, I think that's, I think that's fair. I don't even think that's like a hot take yet. He hasn't been the best, most accurate crisp passer in the NFL. His overall performance, though, I think is pretty goddamn good. Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not, I'm not. I'm not, I'm not saying he's bad. I'm saying he's not the best.

Very close to it, I think. Not even close. Okay. That's fair. I want to say, I'm going to say Zeke. You're saying he's better in fantasy than in real life? Yeah.

And at this point, it's maybe like not even a good argument because he's not even good in fantasy right now either. But I would just say like as for the whole season, I guess, to look at it. And I'm actually going to, I'm going to lump James Connor in here with Zeke too. The eye test for me on both Zeke and Connor is that they look like they're running in mud.

Wow. Holy shit. If you look at some of the explosive plays that, like, Dalvin Cook makes, he's just moving at a different speed than everybody else on the field. And then when you watch James Connor or Zeecrun, it's like, dude, these guys look slow. We should do a segment where we talk about, like, the backups that look incredible because there are players in the league that look like Dalvin that are back. Tony Paul.

You know what I mean? Where they're just, like, touching the ball. Exactly. The Lombardi thing. Lombardi used to say, like, we're a couple injuries from a really good team. And, like, you don't want anyone to get hurt. but once you sign a contract it's like the guy plays and like

I don't think you could find 20 or 30% of Cowboys fans who would not admit that Tony Pollard looked better than Zeke this year like just bar not it's not even close it's I mean honestly Zeeks one of the PFF guys was asked if Zique was the most overrated player

in North American sports and I thought that that was a it's a hot take but I can't immediately think of someone else can I toss somebody else out who's been running in mud Todd Gurley, just like... He can't turn. He's heading. Look, it's like a container ship.

It's like freaking Zoolander, except for he can't turn it either way. He's like a battle ship. Oh. Shut up there. Oh, God. Yeah, man. I mean, the guy has had a remarkable stretch here of being bailed out by TDs for like 20 straight games.

But he just... Nor. It's been like literally two seasons of him being bailed out by touchdowns. Yeah. Yeah. Aren't you the guy who's like stopped judging people for scoring touchdowns? Not your whole... Yeah, I am.

But I'm just talking about... I'm saying in fantasy, like, I think he's a good fantasy player, but when you watch him, it's like, good God. Although sometimes he scores touchdowns and gets in trouble. Is there a better example of better in fantasy than real life than scoring a touchdown and your team losing the game like he did against the lines?

Is that the ultimate example of what we're talking about? This is an interesting discussion because, like, I don't think that speed and explosion are the most important things for a lot of NFL players. But there's like a level... that you have to have. Yes. Before you get bad.

And I feel like guys like Gurley, I don't think Zeke is quite there, but like Gurley and Connor to me, like when I watch them, I'm like, they're so close to being like literally too slow. They're good players. They're good football players. But they're like almost getting too slow at this point.

You're dead. Mud runners. The most interesting thing I've learned about the draft is that the top end numbers don't matter. It's the combine's not to find the top end numbers. It's to weed out the bottom. It's to make sure you're tall enough to ride the ride in terms of your arm strength, your speed.

It's like, are you, do you meet the bare minimums and physical attributes to be an NFL player? That's right. It's like, I don't care who can bench the most. That doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Can you bench something? Yeah.

Okay. Let's flip this around. Who's better in real life than fantasy football? I had this. Okay, I could probably go on for like two hours about this. So I'm going to just start a couple guys. I think, no, because I think this is a great question and it's a fun question. Shadow Gordon.

The first guy that came to my mind is Philip Lindsay. Every time that guy touches the ball. every time he touches his ball, I'm like, this guy's good. He's like really good. Yes. He's also the inverse of James Connor because they're both the hometown guys from the area who went to college in the air and like the hometown hero. Yeah. And I mean, to be clear, Lindsay has two a thousand yards seasons on his resume.

So it's not like he's just some Randos Schmo guy. But like the Broncos just don't seem to like him for whatever reason. They've been trying to move on from him. They obviously signed Melvin Gordon. This year, Lindsay is seventh in the NFL among running backs with 50 attempts this year. He's seventh in yards after. carry for yards after contact per attempt. When I watch him just for the eye test,

he looks explosive, he looks decisive. He gets downhill. He has breakaway speed. He can hit the home run. Well, maybe not like, maybe not the home run, but he has speed to get into the like open field. He gets doubles in the gap. Yeah, exactly. That's a great way of putting it. A lot of doubles.

And I don't know, man. He's just one of those players are like, if he ends up with a different team after his Broncos tenure, I could see him have a big renaissance because I just think he's good. Learn to catch and he's a third round pick. please just do it dude he just runs hard man he tries to run people over he's 190 pounds and he runs like he's 230 yeah you know what that's actually how i'd explain it he's in that group of guys where it's like oh he's actually giving a shit like 100% of his effort on every play yeah which is actually rarer than you think i feel like he's just getting wasted on the on the

broncos offense at this point but okay anyone i want to throw one one other guy out actually two guys michael galv i think that one's one we've talked about a lot of 100% galah um that one's pretty easy he's a good one's pretty easy he's a really talented player. He can win on the outside. It's just this offense is number one. When they had DAC in there, it was like too many cooks in the kitchen, too many guys. Right. Like if you traded Gallup for Deontay Johnson, Gallup would be having a fantastic year. Yeah. And number two, like now the offense is just like broken. And he's not the guy that's getting all these easy things in the middle of the field. That's just not like his role. But he's

so good on the outside. The other one that I want throughout that, I think you guys would probably scoff at a little bit is I think Clyde Edwards. Lair has been really good this year. He's just not been that great in fantasy. I think he's been a good player for them. You're right. I don't agree with you. I think he looks fine.

He's fine. I honestly think of his name was less cool. He wouldn't be that big of a deal. He's sixth and broken tackles on rushes. He's sixth and broken tackles on receptions. He's a good receiver. He never fumbles. Maybe he does have one fumble this year, but he's like really reliable.

He's really shifty. Even just your argument has less zeal than at the Philip Lindsay one. Like you don't even sound as excited about this. He's played far fewer games. I'll put it that way. I think he's good. I think he's good. Properly rated.

He's like a good running back. He's a good fantasy running back. He's a little disappointing on the field and in fantasy. People are acting like he's a bust. I disagree with that. So I have, I'm going to stick with the Chiefs. You know who's like better in real life than fantasy football?

Patrick fucking Mahomes. This is dumb. What are you talking about? He's great in fantasy football. He's, he is averaging more points in fantasy than he did is like MVP year. I know, but his gap.

I get what you're saying is like a he's that good at football, but like, he's, he's, he's like heads and shoulders above everyone right now. The only person touching him in real life was Russ and Russ has collapsed in the last few weeks. Like Pat, Mahomes is the other person I wanted to shout out is I just want the wide receivers who block category who like Cooper Cup and Robert Woods in LA. There's a special kind of receiver who doesn't need the ball who can like exist in an ecosystem

where it's like, you know, we're going to go with the open option. The reality is there are politics to like quarterbacks at the throw to. there are people you have to get the ball every few drives to engage them like like there's just a reality to this it is a special kind of like group who can like actually not get the ball for a month and not care Robert Woods and Cooper Cup are like that they block down field for their other guys in a way the others don't and in the same old Cory Davis in Tennessee is a willing block I mean he had a crazy story last week where his brother died from cancer on Wednesday before Thursday in football um he had a good game but he's just he's just a hardworking guy like fifth pick who's like a bust in like the traditional sense but he just does like all the cliche blue collar work. He blocks. He doesn't care of AJ Brown overshadows him. Like he's just like a hardworking guy. And like none of that translates to the fantasy,

but someone you want on your team. Like he just has the right attitude about the game. I like that. Yeah. I agree. Honestly, the leader of this category is Alan Robinson. This isn't even close.

Yeah, you're right. Alan Robinson is so unbelievably good. And I think people, like the announcers even notice it. Like, man, Alan Robinson, you got this amazing talent in your team. It's a shame they can't get him the ball. God. Speaking of this, the freaking Monday night game. The Bears Monday night performance was a new low in football.

Hit a full in football. That was. Oh, Bill Lasers calling the place. Doesn't matter. I never realized the most depressed I've ever been. So here's a fun fact. So the Bears basically invented the quarterback position. Like in 1940, like December 1940, like they basically did the T-form.

Like they invented the quarterback position with like they said Luckman. And they haven't found one since. Like they just haven't. One in the 80 years ago they invented the quarterback and they've had the same team for the last 80 years. It's defense, special teams have to score for their awful offense. It's the same freaking thing. It's Groundhog Day. Do you guys think there's ever been a bigger gap between, and I bet you it'll be even bigger by the time the season ends, between somebody with a certain amount of targets and where they are in point scoring?

Alan Robinson is second in the NFL in targets and he's the wide receiver 21. See, that's so annoying because we ranked him really high for the ringer fantasy draft guide. And we like we got, we nailed the prediction of like he's going to, he might lead the league in targets. And it's, I mean, honestly, we, I think we just didn't think Foles could be this bad. Yeah. And that's true. I think I'm ready for Trubisky again. I am.

I know that Foles got hurt. He sounds like, look, I would tiptoe around this if Foles had gotten seriously hurt, but he did not get seriously hurt. Yeah. I was a little bit disappointed. We're not going to go back to Trubisky because I just wanted to see something. It's some spark in this offense. Well, the Bears season is not over yet. Like, they're five and five.

Five and two. Foles is the perfect person to like sneak in at like nine and six. Or sorry, 10 and six. I can't do math. But the Bears sneak in and then Foles just starts fucking being Nick Fawls again. And they win. And like he has to be this bad to Lola's from forgetting that this is like the coldest, like a six man.

It would be awesome if Nick Foles was like actually good at the playoffs again and they snuck in. But it probably won't happen. So yeah, I like Allen for this. All right. So that's a good list. actually Alan Robinson is a good, better in real life than fantasy. I could make a list of like 50 of these guys. Yeah.

That's just, that's a good question. I also want to quickly shout out that Alvin Camara, Devante Adams, Travis Kelsey, are exactly properly, equally rated in fantasy in real life. They're exactly as good as their fantasy performance in real game. Okay. Bad beat time? Yeah. All right.

Thank you to everyone for email who emailed us for ringer fantasy football at gmail.com. Emails bad beats, fantasy court for Friday. And then also just random questions like Gordon's. We like that one a lot. obviously lots of people had the Nick Chub thing where he ran out of bounds a lot of people had the Hopkins

lost game ringer staff or Noah Malale had the Nick Chub thing that's absolutely hilarious but a couple people had both and I wanted to shout these people out someone named Josh

added us on Twitter just you just screen chat lost by four points and the losing side at Chubb and the winning side at DeAnder Hopkins which is hilarious

and then also we got an email from Austin that I'm going to read. Fellows, huge fan of the show. Love listening every week. Thank you, Austin. My day started by checking the fantasy football app to see that Rojo had fumbled on the opening drive for the bucks.

Right then and there, I thought Rojo would be benched by Bruce Ariens and my chances of beating a team with Tom Brady, Devante Adams, as Stefan Diggs was toast. I threw my phone on the counter and lock in to watch the final round of the Masters. Later, a buddy of mine pulls up the video on Twitter

of Nick Chubb running out of bounds at the one-yard line and knowing that I am playing against Nick Chubb, I opened my fantasy app for the first time since Rojas fumble to find. I am in a shootout after Rojas 98-yard touchdown and huge game. Brady goes nuclear, but I laugh and say, watch, I'm going to win because of this Nick Chub touchdown or non-touchdown. My team holds their own as the day goes on, but our matcher comes down to Stefan Diggs and DeAndre Hopkins being the final players to play. My opponent's team takes the lead with the late

Diggs touchdown. It feels like a dagger. A minute later, Hopkins makes that insane catch to win the game. my team goes up by 5.8 based on the yardage of the pass, point for the reception and the touchdown. Had Chubb not walked out of bounds and scored the touchdown, I would have lost by 0.2 points instead I escape at the win. And to make matters worse, my opponent's team beats any of the other 10 teams of the league by more than 30 points had he not played me. Thank you. Oh, God. Yeah, wow. I thought that was a really good encapsulation of all the bad things. We're getting into the most frustrating time in fantasy. This is where it's really stressful. and every week matters and there's like a million teams

that are five and five, it's just brutal. How do you guys keep yourselves from getting too bummed out about bad beats? Oh, I look at the world and realize like, oh, it could be way worse.

I have it pretty good. I read the news. Yeah, I mean, that's fair. That's fair. You know what I actually do is I passively, I'm very passive aggressive and I like text my friends that like my team sucks

and I'm not going to win and then they're like, stop, dude, your team is so pretty good. I do that all the time. I'm like, looks like you're going to beat me this week

because like all my team's, fucking hurt and they're all playing like shit now and they're like dude stop you still have one of the best teams this is what bill does with the patriots you do that with your fantasy team absolutely that's hilarious no i just go i go full nihilism too i'm just like you do you really just when the going gets rough you're like we all die anyway he hops in the car just speeds to arby's yeah i like to detach from not only reality but just humanity and anything in general like none of this matters you go walk into the woods nihilist dk It's like he's like the nicest guy

And then it's just every now and then he's like But then while he's in the woods His phone pings and he looks at it And it says like Amari Cooper scored a touchdown And you're like oh And then you like run back all happy You're like I'm gonna win now Oh my god

Maybe we shouldn't tether our self-esteem To this ridiculous game we play Probably not That's why it's helpful to have like 14 teams No I disagree Because I'm gonna get rid of it It's like the worst feeling You feel less though

You feel it's complex. Maybe that's just part of growing older, DK. You're better at managing those things. I legitimately can't watch a game without being like, okay, so he scored. That's good for my team, but also bad for the other team. I was playing that guy.

So, like, who cares? It just, none of this matters. That's terrible. You should try doing a year with like one or two leaks. Oh, I've done that. I've done that many times. It's just more depressing to me if your one team is terrible, like, and you can't do anything about it.

All right, that's all we got for you today. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Niagara Starbyes. Lauren. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Black Keys. Oh, my God.

We'll see you guys on Friday.