The Ringer NFL Show - Trades and Fades After Week 3

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

We discuss the players whose hill we are either dying on or abandoning after a slow start to the season and who you could potentially trade them for. We finish the show with a few bad beats from Week 3. Odell Beckham Jr., Browns (10:11) David Johnson, Texans (16:28) Will Fuller, Texans (19:11) D.J. Moore, Panthers (23:22) Cam Akers, Rams (30:53) DeAndre Hopkins, Cardinals (33:38) Kenyan Drake, Cardinals (35:56) Kerryon Johnson, Lions (39:36) Joe Mixon, Bengals (42:31) Gardner Minshew, Jaguars (47:25) Bad Beats (47:57) Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer Fantasy Football Show is brought to you by Heineken. Heineken original lager is made with pure malt and their famous A-Yeast, which makes Heineken in all season all the time kind of beer. D.K., have you had the Heineken in the frosted mug yet? I did it. You did it? I watched the game last night, had a little frosted mug. It was as good, if not better, than what you described.

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Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. I'm Danny Hyfitz here with Danny Kelly and Craig Horlebeck. Are you guys ready to die on some hills? That's what fantasy is all about. I'm not sure if I am ready. I'm abandoning some hills today, you guys. You're retreating? I'm running away from hills.

Yes. I watched a YouTube montage of the best, like the 40 best movie speeches in two minutes just to hype me up for... Are you one of those guys? I've never been like a montage YouTube guy. Best eight fight scenes in 12 minutes. Oh, you don't like the 16 best animal fights in 37 seconds? No, I don't know that.

Mungoos versus Cobra. The nine best Robert De Niro lines. I don't do it. Well, I'm just saying that this particular one had me going because it starts with... You know what? You know what? I'm hyped up. That's all I'm trying to say.

I'm not abandoning my hills. All right. I'm defending my hills and I will die on them. You want to describe what that means to people? Oh, yeah, right. We should probably explain. It's not a literal death. It's very much a metaphorical take death. We're going to look back at the players we feel strongly about, whether it's from the preseason or early in the season that those guys are kind of struggling on the struggle bus, to say the least, at least hailing the struggle bus. And we're going to reassess whether we want to die on these hills or we're cutting our losses, doubling down or folding a lot of mixed

metaphors. But you know what? You get the idea. Will we cut the umbilical cord on these players? Will we cut the umbilical cord or will we be Adam Gase? That is what we're trying to say. But first, we have to do a fun fact. Yes. Yeah. This is from Jonathan.

Did you know sharks have been on earth longer than trees? That just slaps you right in the face. That's in the face. Slaps you in the face. Still Jonathan writing. Sharks have actually existed for more than 450 million years, whereas the earliest tree lived around 350 million years ago. how about that?

Man, sharks are resilient, you guys. So they have grit. When the first tree fell in the woods, a shark was around to hear it. Oh. Wow. That was a good one, Craig. Pete Carroll probably loves sharks because they have so much grit. The Julian Edelman's of the sea.

Yeah. Jonathan actually also included that not only are sharks older than trees, but they're also one of the only animals to have survived four of the five mass extinctions. Wow. Which, again, that's resilience. Although the human beings are the sixth extinction. Sharks are the Frank Gore of the ocean. No.

Yeah. Okay. So it also reminds me of country roads when it's like older than the trees. And now every time I hear that song, I'm going to think about sharks. But anyway, that song's ruined for me. Remember when we talked about the Greenland shark that's like born in 1650? We've had multiple shark. A lot of dinosaurs and sharks on this show so far.

We need to expand our repertoire a little bit. We really should. Maybe it's because you have a child. Anyway, before this segment jumps the shark, let's move on. Oh, that was good. Boom. We also want to shout out. If you're listening to this episode on Spotify, you can actually go to the actual page you're listening to on right now and scroll down a little bit.

And if you're special and you've been selected, this is not for everyone, but some people will have a poll where you can vote. This week, it's going to be who's the QB1 rest of the season? So it's Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen and Russell Wilson. You guys can vote in the poll. So poll of us real quick. Who do you guys think is the QB1 rest of the season of those four? dudes. So we're talking from now going forward, not including the first three weeks? Yes, not including the first three weeks, now through the end of the season. Or we can cut it off

at week 16 because that's fantasy football. But who do you think is the number one quarterback rest of the year? I'm sticking with my Russell Wilson prediction. I'm going with Patrick Mahomes. He was pissed that everyone was talking about Russell Wilson as MVP and he was like, watch this. Assholes. I was honestly between Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen to be. I think it's Josh Allen. I'm going to roll Josh Allen. You guys are jumping off this Russell Wilson thing? No, I'm with you. They're neck and neck. I just decide, well, one, it just seems better for disagreeing. But also, the rushing. The rushing just seems just outrageous because I was looking at Mike Clay has these opportunity-adjusted rankings and fantasy, which basically is how should you

have scored compared to how you did. Josh Allen was negative. Josh Allen should have had more points. That's how much opportunity is. Anyway, I like Josh Allen, but please vote in that poll and listen to Spotify. If you got Spotify, please listen to your podcast and Spotify. It's better on Spotify. It truly is. It is better. If you go to, you know, there's a ring or Reddit, and if you go in there, people are like, why is everybody on the ringer talking about you go to Spotify just because of 1.2x speed? Let me tell you something. Have you ever listened to a podcast on 1.2x speed? It is way better.

I do it all. That's the only thing I do. Well, because on Apple, you can only do 1.5 or 1 or 2. And 1.5 is way too fast for me because it sounds way too. And you do 1.2. You shave like 15 minutes off every podcast. It's great. And it doesn't really sound that different.

Yeah. It's great. I'm with you. Sometimes when I get really animated, I talk at 1.2 speed in real life. Yeah, so you on 1.2 is really like 1.4. All right. Well, yeah, listen to your podcast and Spotify, vote in that poll. And then we're going to get to some hills.

But first, we just have some news. We're recording this on Tuesday afternoon. So we're kind of a no man's land on this. This show comes out Wednesday morning and there's some Titans COVID-19 news. So there have been nine members of the Titans organization have produced a positive test in the past four days. Three of those are players. Five were employees and there was also a coach from earlier.

So that's nine. And we are just in an absolute doth of news right now. This came out in the morning. We don't know the status of the Titan Steelers game. That could be postponed. That could be Monday, that could be Tuesday night. We have no idea what's going to happen.

And we also don't know the status of the Vikings' Texans game because the Vikings played the Titans on Sunday. We have not gotten the result. We have not publicly heard the results of the Viking situation. So with that said, we don't know exactly what the situation is. But if there does need to be some buy situation where you don't know if you're going to be able to play these players, how would you guys go about it? If effectively these games are postponed, is there anyone in particular you'd be targeting either at receiver position? We talked about some guys on waivers like Alan Lazard and people, but taking out the group of people who were just sniped on waivers in your initial round and maybe people who are still free agents on Wednesdays, is there anywhere you would want to grab or?

just any general notes for having a buy like this. You just got to go a little bit deeper into the waivers, right? You know, we talked about guys like, I'm forgetting his name on the bills. He filled in for when John Brown got hurt, Gabriel Davis is an option. Greg Ward, who we talked about on last show for the Eagles,

is potentially going to get a lot of volume because now Goddard is on the IR for a few weeks. And, you know, this doesn't mean you have to replace receivers necessarily because usually you have a couple guys in your bench you can fill in and you may just have to fill in with the flex spot, so you can maybe add a running back or a time. tight end too. Chase Claypool? You're gonna just take a chance on Claypool or Mikael Hardman?

Yeah, look, Hardman. We talked about Hardman and DeMarcus Robinson on Monday and Hardman blew up. Yeah. All right, so we don't know that. My question for you guys, hold on. I got a, I got like a fantasy commissioner question. So fantasy court? Yeah, this is fantasy court. Let's say that, you know, whatever, you have Juju Smith-Schuster. The game gets postponed to week eight. And your team loses because you didn't have Juju Smith-Schuster. or what have you. And the other guy who you're playing had nobody on the COVID list, so he got his full roster and you didn't. What do we do about that? If you lose, if you lose,

and you're like, hey, well, maybe if I would have started Juju, I would have won. What should you do? I don't think you do anything. It's basically treating it like this guy's injured. Or a bye week.

Yeah, but it's really unfair because the Steelers didn't contract. I mean, like, the game would get canceled not for the Steelers' fault. So it's not like Juju got hurt. You can't even blame it on him. Yeah, but what's your alternative?

The alternative is you don't know the winner of this matchup and you let the week eight Juju Smith-Schuster game count from the one five weeks earlier. And that's anarchy. That's what I think you should do. That's, oh, you really do? That's antithetical. You're going to track that?

The entire point, the entire point of fantasy football is, the reason it works is because it's the rigid time schedule of it. It wouldn't be the same because fantasy football is fun to win. It's also fun to keep up with your friends and talk shit. And the second you take this time cycle out of the Thursday night, Sunday night, Monday night games into Tuesday and you won and then it starts all over. And the second you end that, it just becomes time as a vortex. Like the rest of the year, we all felt like time was unmoored.

The second we started working from home and everything, you're going to do the same thing with you don't even know. How are you supposed to feel waking up on Tuesday and you're like, did I win? I don't know. I'll find out in a month. Yeah, that's true. I was going to say this is why there are a lot of considerations you wanted to take into the season with COVID. That's why a lot of leagues have more IR spots or more bench spots. I guess it's basically like you just find out that,

your team's buy week is now this week last second. That's kind of like what this is. Yeah, but look, I think with this specific situation, I don't think you're going to be finding out an hour beforehand. And look, it's already Tuesday afternoon. We're talking about this. So you have time to prepare and you should be prepared. So, but yeah, obviously the situation sucks,

but everything about this year sucks. So be ready. Okay. So with that said, we're going to go into dying on the hill. We're going to look at some of our takes that we, guys, we really felt strongly about one way or the other

and we're going to decide whether we're going to die in these hills or we're going to abandon ship. Again, mixed metaphor, galore, but you get it. I like it. D.K. Who's a guy? Who you bringing up to the hill? I want to start out with Odell Beckham because I think, you know, I had him overall,

26th overall and half PPR. So I was clearly high on him, my wide receiver 10. I had him above guys like Kenny Galladay, Cooper, Ridley. Oof. But Cooper Cup or Amari Cooper? Amari Cooper. So, yeah, I think, you know, through three weeks, it's been very disappointing what's happened in terms of, you know, his output, his production.

He is the wide receiver 38 currently in half PPR. And my question is, number one, do you see this getting any better? And number two, is he a type of guy that's going to, you're going to buy low on? I'll ask you guys that in a minute, but I'll answer first because this is my take. I'm out on, I'm out, I'm out on O'D Beko. You're off the hill. I'm off the hill. I'm not going to try and defend this hill and, and, and,

defend my take that he was going to have this big rebound season. Number one, Baker just hasn't looked as good as I thought he would. You know, he's improved, certainly, but they are basically hiding him in this offense, which they probably should based on how he looked against Ravens. How so? What do you mean they're hiding him?

They're not asking him to throw. Like, he's had 23 throws, 23 passes in the past two games. They're doing a lot of like, just bootleg, like to find reeds. They're not asking him to sit back and drop back into the in the pocket and make a bunch of plays.

It's basically like this is our foundation is our run game. We're going to do what we can to mitigate, you know, our quarterback situation. And I'm not saying they think he's like he sucks or anything. I'm just saying they're not asking him to do it a lot right now. Do you think Baker has trouble reading coverages? So I've cited the stat a few times. I think it's indicative of kind of like the quarterback he is. Last year he had the second most clean pocket interceptions in the NFL,

which to me indicates. It indicates he's either extremely inaccurate, which I don't think is the case, or he is having trouble reading defenses, not seeing guys that are there, forcing it too much, making bad decisions, essentially. So are you abandoning the hill because Baker

is having trouble even in clean pockets and they're hiding him, or because Odell isn't getting open or both? More? I'm abandoning it more because I think the upside, the ceiling for Beckham is just not there this year. So Beckham has 28% target share, which is elite on the year.

So he's getting the targets. He's had a 40% Airyard share per Hayden Winkset Roto World. That ranks sixth in the NFL. So his targets and like areaard shares are all really, really strong, like top 10 numbers, and he's still the wide receiver of 38. Do you see this offense changing dramatically going forward? Like are they going to all of a sudden start passing a ton, scoring a ton of points? Or do you see them kind of trying to do what they're doing right now,

which is like lean on their two really. really, really good running backs and basically try and control the game like that. It's kind of the perfect concoction for Odell to not perform is the Browns team. Yeah. So I think I kind of just, that's what I'm saying. The Browns have run the ball, or they've thrown the ball 85 times in three games, which is 30th. 529 passing yards, which is 30th. And by the way, that's three more passing yards than the Jets through three weeks.

So this is a run for a team. The volume is just very, it's questionable to me in that caps O'Dell's ceiling. So what I would be doing, what I'm suggesting is if he has, like, you can't really sell low on him or you don't, it's probably maybe not the greatest idea to sell low on him. But if he has a big game, then I would be looking to. Well, and this is the week to do it, D.K., they're playing Dallas this week at Dallas. If it's a shootout and O'Dill is a big game, maybe you shop them. I think that's, I think that's the play. Because then going forward, they've got, they've got, it's hit and miss in terms of their schedule.

got the Steelers, which is a really tough one. They got the Colts and then the Steelers. Two pretty good defenses. Well, what's weird is you almost want them to play good teams because if they play crappy teams and they get up, they just run the ball the whole game and O'Dell doesn't get a lot of targets. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Let's play a little name game here.

Would you trade O'Dell for Terry McLauran? I mean, they're in the exact same boat, but I think honestly I might try, I might go for McLaurid in this case. Washington's offense is exactly the same. Except they don't have like the best run game in the league, so. That's true. So I think I would go with, I think I would take McLaren in that case. Would you trade O'Dell for Tyler Boyd?

Ooh, that's a really good question. Tyler Boyd right now is the wide receiver 16. I think I'd go Boyd because the Bengals are just throwing the shit out of the ball. Wow. And that's pretty impressive considering his, I mean, I feel like his last name is Boyd's. You were like, ugh, Boyd? You do think he's one of those guys whose name is not exciting. If his name was Lightning McQueen, he would top 10.

Lightning. So what are you guys from the car movie? I want to ask what you guys think, though, on this. How are you feeling about Beckham right now? What's your confidence, like, index right now on him? Hi, Fitz. You're the Odell expert. You've been with him for a while. Odell is on the list of guys where it's, if you're talking about a trade for him,

he's one of the few people who, like, people in your league have an opinion on O'Dell Beckham. Whatever league you're in, people have thoughts. Like, Gronk was in this preseason. One of the reasons I didn't want Gronk this year was just like, you're not going to get him in a value. Odell is either people in your league probably either think he sucks, and he's overrated and they don't like him, or they think he's Odell Beckham and I'm buying low

so that if you do have a big game, just know the people you're trading with and what they think of him more than anything. Don't bother. Like, don't go through, when I do a trade so many times, I go through people's teams and I'm like, oh, who's like needs match up with mine?

This team needs running backs, I need receivers, maybe we can make a deal. Don't do that with this. You should be looking at, what does this person think of O'Dell? What does this person think of O'Dell? He likes him? Okay, let me work something out with him

after O'Dell is a big game. If you want to deal with him, But to your point about the air yards, if Adele has a lot of air yards, I'm a little optimistic that maybe he'll have at least a good game in the future. But I see what you're saying where you never want someone where there are stacking,

overlapping layers of why they won't have a ceiling. That sucks. And that is someone you do want. And now the name upside doesn't really match the reality of the offense. So I agree that you'd probably want to sell low on him. Well, not sell low. Sell middle if you can.

Yeah, I would say wait until he has a good game if you're going to try and trade him. So, D.K., you're off the O'Dell Hill. Craig. Okay, Craig. I'm going to bring some up to the hill for you. Okay, thank you.

You were proudly the leader captain. You built the David Johnson bandwagon with your own bare hands. You had elbow grease everywhere. It was just, there was a lot of work. Just his bare hands and brawn.

Just him and Bill O'Brien out there in the sun working on this engine. Yeah. And he's averaging 68 yards a game. That's an amazing visual. Rushing. Just him and B.O.B. Just 68 total yards a game.

Are you dying on the David Johnson Hill or are you seeking shelter? I'm dying on the hill. Look. I wouldn't have expected anything else. Look, he's, yeah, you're right. 68 total yards a game so far. But I still think he's looked good. Like, if you watch him, he looks good.

Ian Hartitz on Twitter, who's really good, had this David Johnson set. He's got the best force miss tackle rate since he's had since 2015 when he had this amazing year. it's actually the same as 2015. And look, man, the Texans have played the three hardest teams in the league to play right now. They played the Chiefs, the Ravens, and the Steelers. And David Johnson averaged 68 yards a game. He's got two touchdowns in that time.

He's the RB20 right now, and we had him ranked as the RB18. He's not really disappointing you that much. And going forward next week, Vikings, Jags, Titans. I'm just saying, like, he's only been two spots lower than we predicted in our rankings. I think he's a by low. Wow. So you're not worried that you don't think he's old washed up. I'll tell you, I'm not dying on the hill.

I'm thriving on the hill. He's thriving on the hill. D.K., how do you feel about this, D.K.? You were never in a David Johnson, so what do you think about this? I think that it's a fine. I don't blame Craig, and I've bought into the David Johnson thing a little bit more. I say, I will say, when I watched him in week one against Kansas City, I was like, oh, shit. What are you talking about?

He looked good. No, that's what I'm saying. Like my offseason takes are they're wilting on the vine here because he just looked awesome. I do think that. And then the other three quarters happened. But then he played the Ravens and the Steelers. Like, yeah, that's a very good point. And I just think the Texans offense, man, is kind of a mess.

But I think they'll probably get it together, especially against much worse competition. So yeah, I think, you know what? I think you're right. I should be the one like giving up my take because I was very off the David Johnson thing in the offseason. He does look good. Like, he looks spry. If the RB20 is his absolute floor playing the three best teams in the league, we're doing good. Okay.

So, David Johnson, Craig's dying in the hill. D.K. may be coming off his hill. Trade for him. I'm not attacking that hill. I'm going to join Craig in the defense of the hill. Join me on the hill. All right. Well, speaking of one, one that I got to wait.

I'm keeping my powder dry and I'm not going to use it until I see the whites of their eyes. But Will Fuller. Revolutionary War. Will Fuller is the most controversial player in fantasy football. Will Fuller, who I just had the utmost confidence in going into the season. And it was completely and utterly undeserved from the man because he has been notoriously just the most... The only thing that's been more frustrating fantasy-wise than Will Fuller was the year Levy on Bell sat out whenever it took him in like the top five. Other than that, Will Fuller is the most frustrating fantasy person.

I really believed in him because it's really simple. He was being drafted in the same spot. he was drafted for the previous three years, but DeAndre Hopkins was gone. And it was like, you know what? Sometimes this isn't rocket science. Like, this is the guy who scored three touchdowns and 220 yards in a game last year. And if he was healthy for 16 games would be a top 20 receiver. And he's already Will Fuller at us because he had a week one good game that should have been a great game,

but Deshaun Watson under threw a pass. And then week two, just as I was feeling all good about myself, because he has the Will Fuller special of no targets, no yards, hamstring hamstring pole. Yeah, do we know it was a hamstring pole that was never even

like on an injury report like he could have just been cramping or something. It was reported but you're right. He did not officially get designated with it. He practiced full. He was like practicing in full like the next day. He could have been cramping.

Maybe he had an upset stomach. They're like well all these other receivers got hamstring poles so shit. It's kind of like the Randy Bullock with the cabs. He had a bad lunch before the game. Who knows? Look,

did you know this is completely off topic but Usain Bolt had a McDonald's snack wrap the day he broke the record in 2008. Feels like negligence on his coach's part. He won. What I'm saying is Will Fuller should eat a snack wrap.

That's what I'm trying to say. Usain Bolt is awesome, by the way. That's a great guy. Will Fuller. It's so absurd. Almost as fast. But the point is, I'm dying on this hill. Wait, didn't the Raiders try?

Didn't the Raiders inquire about Usain Bolt? Oh, I believe that. I totally believe that. I would not be surprised. I think that's a thing. Yeah. He's tall, too. he's like, he's like, he's like Randy Moss style.

Wasn't like Randy Moss. He wouldn't go over the middle. But anyway, I'm dying on the Will Fuller Hill. That's what I'm trying to say here. You will find my skeleton here. I'm sticking with it like the scene from Pirates of the Caribbean. But as Craig moments ago was saying, this schedule for the Texans earlier season was brutal.

The Ravens defense is really good, obviously. Steelers defense really good, obviously. Not obvious. You know the Chiefs are allowing the leash fantasy points to opposing wide receivers in the NFL? The Chief's offense looked amazing last night. That was, I think, the biggest surprise of that game is... You mean defense.

Yeah, sorry, defense. So you say offense, I meant defense. Yeah, their defense just looked really, really good. It was slight differential. But yeah, they looked really good. You know, they, I mean, man, they made Lamar Jackson just look bad, which does not happen. Traditionally when a team is an offense as good as Kansas City, we're like, oh, well, that often leads to shootouts because teams are just airing it out all the time. That's not been the case.

The Chiefs Pass defense has been really good through three games. games. This has been a brutal stretch for the Texans. And then they got coming up. They got the Vikings this week. Again, we're recording this Tuesday. We don't know if that game's going to get moves. But if it doesn't, the Vikings have one of the three or four worst cornerback groups in the NFL. Yeah. That is a huge matchup for Will Fuller. They also got the Jags, Titans Packers, a by week, and then the Jaguars again. So not exactly as intimidating as Ravens Chiefs Steelers, who might be the three best teams in the AFC. So... And Will Fuller's not hurt. He played 92% of the snaps last week. Exactly. So all the reasons,

still apply and it's not rocket science. Again, it's just they played three really good teams. DeAndre Hopkins has gone. They've got to get this going. So yeah, does he have fewer points than Randall Cobb so far? Yes. Am I concerned? A little. But you know what? We're sticking with it. We're sticking with it. Ignore that. Pretend I didn't say it. We're sticking with the hill.

The thing is, is everybody who drafted Will Fuller, they're not even debating quitting him yet because the only people who drafted him are degenerates and they're going to stick with them. Yeah, it's like, cigarettes. It's like, what do you want me to do? Like, stop? No. Geez, who do you think I am? Okay, D.K. I'm bringing another person up on the hill for you right now.

Okay. DJ Moore from Carolina on the Ringer Fantasy draft guide. We had him 31st overall player so far. He is, is he even a top 15 receivers so far? He's exactly 15th. So he is the wide receiver 28 and a half people are right now. 89th overall. And if I'm checking my notes correctly, he is directly behind Jimmy Graham.

Also behind guys like Mike Davis. and Miles Gaskin needless to say he hasn't performed exactly how people were expecting as a you know second or third round receivers so I'm sticking with him though

he's a guy he's like he's a die on the hill kind of guy for me like I just think the talent is going to like overcome circumstances I think we've seen I think we've seen the worst and the best is yet to come for DJ more so and it's very interesting because a lot of people are already kind of talking about

how like Robbie Anderson is inherited his role as the de facto number one in this offense. And I mean, if you look at the scoring in the production, he certainly has so far. Robbie Anderson is like a top 10 receiver right now. But I don't necessarily think that's going to kind of like continue throughout the whole season. I'm sticking with more. So he has right now a 48% air yard share with the Panthers,

which is second among all receivers for Hayden Wing. So I think the production is going to follow. It's just like he has, it's just missed opportunities thus far. and as opposed to like the O'Dell Beckham thing, I think this Panthers offense is going to have to continue to like, you know, be aggressive, throw the ball a lot. You know, they're going to be trailing a lot. So I think that's a positive game script for DJ Moore.

I think eventually he's going to work his way and the production is going to come. Right now he actually does lead the league or he leads his team in targets. He has 26, but he has just 14 catches so far. So yeah, he's just scratching the, you know, he's scratching the service of, What is the expression? Scratching the surface of his potential, which I have to be honest is one of those sayings I've never really understood.

I said it and I was like, that doesn't sound right. But DJ, I think this is a really important point because the same way that we're kind of sitting here now and we're like looking back at the preseason and saying, oh, well, we should have known X, Y, Z at this time, obviously we're going to be doing the same thing a month from now and saying, oh, right, we all knew. The first three weeks of this season,

we all kind of understand are basically preseason. These are teams figuring out for the first time, their own rosters, figuring out their own players, seeing their own guys in competition for the first time. That is doubly true for the new coaching staffs. Carolina has more, had, sorry, less continuity than any other team in the NFL, swapped out their quarterback, a lot of their line. They swapped out, I think, more than half of their defense, their entire coaching staff, except for I think one assistant strength coach or something.

This was an entirely new group of people, and they're already passing pretty well. Teddy Bridgewater's already been playing pretty well. So they're just getting their feet under them. And I don't think there's any of the reasons we like DJ Moore before the season. It's time to abandon ship just because he's only 12th in targets so far. It hasn't been catastrophic. He's not any worse. The offense is flowing.

It's just a matter of eventually DJ Moore will get going. I don't see. There's no, the O'Dell Beckham thing, you're saying there's a structural problem with this offense. And it indicates an internal fear of like how good their offense could be. This is not that at all. It's just DJ Moore.

hasn't caught a couple touchdowns yet. Yeah, and honestly, that touchdown thing is, like, the biggest difference right now. And the Panthers, offense right now, only has two passing touchdowns. I don't necessarily think they're going to have, like, a shitload of passing touchdowns this season. They'll be, like, in the, you know, it's not going to be in the top 10 or something, but, like, I think they're going to do more than two. Like, right now they're, right now they have, they are, I'm just looking at the stats. They're ninth in yards and tied for 29th in passing touchdowns.

passing yards and passing touchdown. So I think those touchdowns are going to come. And I think DJ Moore is going to end up looking like a solid value that, you know, I think he's going to be the guy that we thought he's going to be. It's just going to, it just isn't coming as quickly as we had hoped. All right, let's do a quick name game. DJ Moore or Juju Smith-Schuster? J-J-J-Mor to me was another guy that I had a huge question marks before the season,

but he's proven to me that he's back. So I would stick with J-J-M-U on that one. Okay, DJ Moore or- I like the quarterback situation more. Cooper Cup. Ooh, that's a tough one. But I was probably lean cup just a slightly. Okay, I'll give you one more.

Amari Cooper? I would probably take DJ more because, well, shit. Like the Cowboys offense is just ridiculous. But I got to go Cooper because that offense. Okay. I got to get somebody who taking them over. Terry McLaren. Oh, yeah, I'm going DJ more over that over McLaurin.

All right. So now you kind of see where he is. Odell. DJ more. Okay, clearly. Okay, good. Just making sure your pain attention.

All right. Let's keep rolling here with other hill people. But first, the Ring of Fantasy football show is proud to be presented by Fandall Fantasy. Week four of the NFL season is here

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or download the Fandle Fantasy app to play now. Again, that is fandle.com slash ringer fantasy. Fandul, more ways to win. And today's episode is also brought to you by Hineken. Hineken would like to remind you that it's time for seasonal beers again. That's right.

If you thought a cold, crisp summer Hineken something, just wait until you taste the Hineken fall lineup it's not a new product. It's just the same great tasting lager that is perfect for any season. Perfect in a frosted mug. D.K., welcome to the frosted mug club.

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We're dragging people up. We're deciding who's going to stay, who's going to live, which one of us is going to die? Okay, D.K., are there any other people that you're willing to die on a hill for or not? Any other people from the preseason that you really believed in and now you're wavering just a bit? Yes, there are.

I'm going with Camakers of the Rams. This one kills me, D.K. Yeah, this one sucks. I would say there are some extenuating circumstances that make me abandon. It broke his ribs. The hill is not very well-defense. It's indefensible at this point. It's too hard to defend.

You've been breached. Yes. So basically, there's a few variables that go into this. Number one, he started out the year. He just did not look comfortable in the offense. So that was one missed opportunity. I'm talking about acres. and then number two,

in the second game, I believe, he broke his ribs. And so this is an injury that he could be dealing with for a little bit of time. I mean, honestly, as a rookie, it's just really hard. He's falling behind.

Henderson's taking the job and is really running with it at this point. It feels like he's kind of established himself as the team's starter and lead back and he looks really good. So for Acres to kind of come in and take away, what you know like Henderson who he's looked really strong like come in and like take over I just

don't know if that's very likely anymore you know at least not this season so yeah I'm kind of of just out on acres I was really really excited about him prior to the year and the reason being is I think the Rams and we've seen that the Rams are very dedicated to the run and they're good run team and they have an awesome scheme and we're seeing Darrell Henderson and Malcolm Brown reap the benefits of that and unfortunately just for Acres it's just I think he's fallen way too far behind at this point he might be you know might be a guy in the second half of the year that gets some get some run but to me he's not a guy I'm looking to trade four and redraft do you think he's dropable wow well it just depends on what you got but um he's not I don't think he's going to be someone

that you can start for probably like the next three or four weeks ribs is such a tough injury I mean it's literally a sport where you get tackled in the chest so it's when you're a running back, it's just the worst thing to try to keep someone on your team. So that's really frustrating one for Kmakers. I was just thinking about what we just talked about with DJ more. I think I might take DJ more over Cooper Cup. Okay. I think it changed my mind because I think...

Was it my ad reads? Was that what did it? Well, I was just thinking about it the entire time you're doing the ads and I was just like, man, I don't know. I feel like the Rams, again, they're so run heavy and they're so focused on the run. I do think that their overall offense is better, but I don't know. I'm still just, I just love DJ more. So I think I'm going to change my answer on that one.

Okay, hi, Fitz. I'm pulling up somebody to the hill for you. Oh, God. Be kind. It's the man we were all down on this year, and it has certainly not panned out, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. DeAndre Hopkins.

And by specifically you're saying how I said DeAndre Hopkins would not be good. And now he's the number one receiver. And now he is good. And the NFL in yards and catches, and it's like top three in fantasy. Are you going to double down? Are you going to double down on this?

Do you remember in blazing saddles that, I mean, spoiler alert, but at the end, they build an abandoned town and no one's there. That's my- spoiler alert on a 30-year-old movie. My hill is empty. I've already retreated and no one's there. And I was just wrong. You know what? So much of what we talked about with this DeAndre Hopkins thing was this is a limited off season. It's going to be harder for players to adjust than ever.

In normal circumstances, receivers have trouble adjusting to new teams immediately and really just hype. hype is earlier than our expectations are too much too soon from every team from like when Steve Nash on the Lakers to the Eagles when they had the dream team it's football as a team where it's about jelling and you have to settle into roles especially with timing and we just weren't sure if DeAndre Hopkins was going to be able to integrate perfectly into this offense immediately in such a strange offseason and he was going in the first round on Yahoo drafts and we're like well what are the odds that it's going to go perfectly immediately well it went perfectly immediately.

So you know what? It happened. Okay? He leads the NFL receiving yards. It's basically the best beginning any receiver has ever had on a new team through three games. I both am confident in saying I don't feel bad for betting against the best start anybody's had on a new team ever in this crazy year.

But also clearly I was wrong because if you can do it so far, like I'm not worried. I think that if there was a part of it we underweighted was that Bill O'Brien seems like a shitty coach, which is a bad premonition for my. Will Fuller thing from earlier, but he's being used well. The offense is fun. The offense is cool. And he's dominant.

It's so impressive that he's done this immediately. It's like online shopping for like a pair of jeans and they arrive and they just fit perfectly. And you're like, wow, that worked. Yes, that's exactly how it is. So, yeah, that hill is abandoned. I'm gone. Okay. Let's go back to back here since these guys are on the same team.

I'm bringing Kenyon Drake up to the hill. So this one is interesting. I was not super in on Kenyan. I was bullish on Kenyon Drake. And I think many of us were early in the season. And obviously the question with Kenyon Drake was, well, he finished the year with like eight touchdowns and eight games on the Cardinals. Is he going to be able to do that again? We were bullish on the offense.

Then he had a walking boot and I was terrified. And then last week I said that he would be a top five back. He was not. But I'm actually staying up here. I actually think that he's going to be really good. and he's a great trade candidate. I would trade for Kenyon Drake for a lot of the same reasons

DK was talking about DJ Moore where there's nothing structurally wrong with this team. The Cardinals, offense is flowing really well. Kenyon Drake just hasn't had touchdowns. Like there's nothing wrong with, he's been disappointing.

Don't get me wrong. He's not a top 25 back. Like, that's not bad. That's not good for someone you took somewhere between the first and the third round. That's really bad. But he's fourth and snaps in the NFL

among running backs. He's fifth and carries. He's like 10th and rushing yards. There's no problem here with his volume. It just, he has like one touchdown. down. He's tied for his, he has the most first downs in the NFL after Derek Henry. He's getting the ball. It's just the Cardinals have, I think, they're 29th in gold to go situations.

Kyler and DeAndre have been scoring from too far out. Sorry, they haven't had like a first and three, first and goal from the three yard line yet. The second they do, I think Kenyon Drake's going to have a big game. And also, they have a really good schedule coming up. They're playing the Panthers this week. The Jets after that. And I think going forward, pro football focus says that the Cardinals rushing defenses are like the third or fourth war slate through the rest of the year. Just touchdowns are random. He's getting the ball.

The offense is really good. The points are going to come. And I think Kenyon Drake's, if someone's already out on him and like, wow, why to spend my second round pick on Kenya Drake, I would go get him. The Cardinals quietly are, and this is something that happened last year, too. They were quietly a really good run team. And everybody thinks about Kyler and, you know, the air rate offense. And no one thinks like, oh, that must be a really good run team.

But they're a really good run team still. now Kyler factors into the run game a lot so you kind of have to take that into account because he's such a good runner but they're sixth in the NFL right now in rushing attempts which is only four behind the Browns yeah that's the thing we were saying that well it's the air raid not the ground rate

well the impressive part of Cliff King Cliff Kingsbury as a coach so far as he hasn't just stuck to the air raid he's been I mean made the hallmark of a good coach is he is not he's doing what's best for his team and the roster around him and not just sticking to some scheme that he was successful with in the past so I think Kenyon Drake, I would go get them.

Yeah, the other thing is that makes Arizona such an attractive fantasy target for all of its players, not all of its players, but all its good players, is they're playing really, really fast. They're playing a lot of plays. They're sixth in the NFL and plays, actually tied for fifth with the Falcons. So they're running a ton of plays, and that gives, you know, obviously that gives fantasy players more opportunities to have, to score points. And so I'm with you. I'm not ready to abandon this hill yet.

I'm taking this hill. Call me Napoleon. I'm strategically taking this hill now that others are retreating. Or what is the Settlers or Katon? That's a lot less cool than Napoleon. It's tough. The thing that worries me, though, about Drake, just to throw a little bit of cold water on this, is that he only has five catches this year.

That is disappointing for sure. Yeah, and that's the big thing that's, like, changed from last year is, you know, he was a big part of the passing game last year. Now, I think Chase Edmonds is, like, really cut into his passing game work, you know, in addition to Kyler just going crazy on the ground right now. So that's the thing that worries me. He's fourth in touches. So I just,

I just feel like, you know what? Like, it'll be all right. Yeah. Okay. Craig, you dragged it running back up for me.

I'm going to drag one up for you. Carry on Johnson, your beloved, who, this is one of the longer, this is sneakily one of the longer love affairs on this podcast. I'm very interested. I'm very interested about this one.

Yeah. Well, it's funny that we've been hitting like, kind of like big name guys. And now I'm doing carry on. Yeah. Now it's, well, no, this is like five for them and one for us. This is the one for us.

Yeah, this is like when Bill, Andy, and Christ did pump up the volume on the rewatchables. Yes. Which is a good movie. Okay. So, Carri-on Johnson, I don't think is bad. I just don't think he's been used. I really think that's it. Last week, he barely played.

But you know what? Neither did DeAndre Swift. Adam Levitton tweeted the other day. Detroit used the 43rd overall pick on Carion Johnson. They used the 35th pick on DeAndre Swift. And they're both healthy. and in week three, Adrian Peterson got 23 touches, and Carri-on-Johnson got four,

and DeAndre Swift got one. I fucking hate coaches, man. Which is insane. The snaps through three weeks, if you look at snaps, Adrian Peterson has 79, and Caryon and DeAndre Swift both have about 60. This is the banner for why Bob Quinn, their GM,

is going to get fired, and Matt Patrice is going to get fired, by the way. Yeah. That's malpractice. So it's not as if DeAndre Swift is playing more than Carri-on-D-Wiff, Johnson. I don't think he's necessarily playing that much better than Carryon Johnson. I just think it's Adrian Peterson, right? So my only thinking is that as the season goes on, maybe, just maybe, Matt Patricia might be stashing Carry on Johnson and Dionne Joseph for later on in the season.

And they're just burning out Adrian Peterson while they can now. They're just using them like a cheap rug. What? Until later on in the season, Carry on, who's notoriously beat up, maybe might have a healthy stretch run. Let me get straight. They drafted him for. two years. They've seen him day in and day out for two years. Adrian Peterson shows up for like a week. They give him 20 carries in week one. And then they're like, oh, we'll just use carry on for later. Not we'd think AP's better than carry on. I think carry on was beat up at the start of the year and they're like, we need and DeAndresef's a rookie and was also hurt. And they're like, we need somebody who can like fill in and run up the middle. So you think Karen's getting

healthier as this season. You think he's going to be healthier later on and then better. Yeah, I kind of do. Carion's, you know, did you know that he's the number one, he's the number one graded pass blocking running back in the league per PFF? I do. I did not. You know how I love pass blocking. There are... I love a pass blocking running back. There are reasons to believe that maybe Carri-on Johnson will have a stronger second half of the season than it looks like his first half is lining up.

Because, I don't know. Are we going to bet eight? They're going to be giving Adrian Peterson 20 carries in week 15? I kind of don't think so. I weirdly think they could just remove Adrian Peterson and come week 14. Carry-on and DeAndreie are doing this one-two-punch thing. And they're both kind of valuable flex plays or something like that. I don't think you should drop Carry-on Johnson.

You know what? You had me with the. pass blocking. You know I love the number one pass blocking running back. You want to keep Matt Stafford healthy. You want to keep him up. I don't know. You got to predict Matt Stafford. All right, Craig, another running back up the hill for you. Joe Mixen. Yeah, Joe Mixen's doing the same thing he did last year. Hi Fitts, this is personal to you and I because we co-owned a ringer fantasy team last year and we traded for Joe Mixin halfway through the year and it really worked out. We went to the championship. Joe Mixon this year sucked. He's the running back 38 on the Bengals,

right. He's behind Sony Michelle and Adrian Peterson, which ain't great. But I'm not jumping off the hill. He's getting a lot of touches. He's six in the league and carries. He's just not doing anything with him and he's not really catching passes because Giovanni Bernard is there too. He's getting, you know, three targets a game

which is pretty much like what he did last year. Nothing's really changing. But this is just a bet on the improvement of Joe Burrow, the improvement of the Bengals offense. And I expect Mixon to follow suit. Last year, Mixon was the RB 27 through the first three weeks of the year and he finishes the RB11. So I expect that to continue. One specific trade that I think I would do is right now if I had James

Connor, I would sell high, trade for Joe Mixon. Wow. Deke, what do you make of this? Because I'm torn between this totally makes sense and buying a loan the Bengals offense makes sense. And like, I also wonder if Joe Mixon sucks. They just signed him to a multi-year deal. Oh, because the Bengals, the Bengals are great evaluators of talent. Well, my point is they don't think he sucks. So he's, he's going to get plenty of opportunity. I would, Okay, in this specific scenario that Craig just brought up, I would do the same thing. James Connor? James Connor is in my freaking, it's not quite the ringer hate book or the ringer burn book or whatever, but he's on the list of potential ads.

He's on your list of, you remember the end of Billy Madison when Steve Bishemmy's like crossing people off the list? He's on that list for you. I love that James Connor is going to be the only guy in the burn book who was in the burn book because he played well. That's what I, yeah, that's the thing. Well, Sammy Watkins will do that too Sammy Watkins will make it there eventually We should just name it the Sammy Watkins Burnbook Also, I don't think Joe Mixon's bad

Come on, what are we doing here? You know, I just... Most running backs aren't bad, in my opinion. I think most running backs are just pretty good. I like that. I get what you're saying. It's just... The only alternative is that the Bengals' offensive...

And I know the Bengals' offense has been awful, but he just has been so unimpressive for his entire career. The line's been terrible, and I know that's not a good sign. And I know they have. They have. But yeah, I mean, he gets tackled at. As soon as he gets the ball, they hit him.

Like, it's not that Joe Miston. He has the sixth most carries this year. And let's see here. 22nd in yards. Would you rather have Joe Mixon or Miles Sanders? Joe Mixon. Joe Mixon or Miles Sanders, Craig? Sure.

Sure. I would rather have Miles Sanders. Did he do more Miles Sanders there? Joe Mixon or Aaron Jones, Craig. Aaron Jones. Joe Mixon or Nick Chubb. Nick Chubb. Joe Mixon or David Johnson?

Joe Mixon. It's close. That's close. I just wanted to make you pause. Joe Mixer or Josh Jacobs? Just Jacobs. Although, man, Josh Jacobs has really been falling off.

I would go Jacobs. But okay, I see what you're saying. Okay, so you're still on the Joe Mixon Hill. I'm sticking with Kenyon Drake. I'm attacking the Kenyon Drake Hill. I want it all to myself. I have fled there from the DeAndre Hopkins Hill, staying on the Cardinals offense.

D.K., you're abandoning the Cam Acres Hill and you're saying he will have probably not much starting value for a few months. D.K., you're still the captain, the DJ Moore Hill. I'm going to die on the Will Fuller Hill. I'm going to do it proudly, bravely, like Braveheart, but it won't be very cool. David Johnson. I put a Braveheart reference in my column yesterday. That's kind of random. What was the reference?

Why are we talking about Braveheart all of a sudden? Because I watched the video for the 40 speeches in two minutes and that was the one that started with it. It sits on YouTube at midnight and watching movie clips. No, I compared the 49ers to the, at the very end of Braveheart, it's like, you know, starving and outnumbered the Patriots of Scotland fought. I've actually never seen Braveheart. I've only seen the speech. What, God, damn.

I've only seen the speech. I've never seen the movie. Holy crap, dude. All right, I'll watch that in Wedding Crashers. We'll do a ringer movie club. Jesus, man. It's like, it's bad. I should have seen it.

You should also watch forgetting Sarah Marshall. I've seen forgetting Sarah Marshall. Marshall. Don't believe that. How dare you? Dubious. The part where they kill the pig and Sarah Marshall is possibly the hardest thing. I'm sorry.

And then he goes, where are you crying? You look like a giant baby. Russell Brand's gyrations in that movie are burned into my subconscious. Anyway, okay. I have to see wedding crashes in Braveheart. I'll watch Sarah Marshall again.

D.K. is off the Odell Beckham Hill. Craig is so on the David Johnson Hill he's seated D.K. to leave his anti-David Johnson Hill. And then anyone else? I'm backing up Craig on the hill. I've been on the Gardner-Minshu Hill

and I'm just going to say, don't overreact the Thursday Night Football. Classic mistake. He's been playing great. Thursday-Night football is weird. So don't overreact. Oh, that's a good one. I'm sticking with my Gardner-Minshu defense.

Gardner-Mintchoo or Drew Brees? Minchu. I actually cut Brees for Gardner-Mitchie in the league. Yeah. And it seems nuts, but I didn't. No, he's better. He friskier. He makes plays.

Frisky. He runs. I have no regrets. Okay. Speaking of no regrets, and by no regrets, a lot of regrets. Bad beats? Go to Bad Beats for the week. Yes.

I wanted to shout someone who emailed us Nile. It's Nile. I think it's Nile. Yeah, I think so. Nile. It's a cool name. Are we supposed to use names? Oh, protect the innocent?

All right. Just beep it out. Just beep it out. Like, when you go back in post, just beep it out. Sorry, Niall. You're in it now. You're with us, Nile. All right,

now. All right, you're here. Okay. He lost in the Keenan Allen lateral being rolled as a fumble.

Oh my God. That is brutal. We're sorry, Nile. I don't even think about that. Dude, that play would have been so freaking amazing.

It was a touchdown. Yeah, 100% a touchdown. The other one I had to shut out, obviously many people lost in the DK Metcalf because that's a, I mean,

that was an eight point swing, right? Because the touchdown on the fumble, but, my God. Particularly I wanted to go with Andy.

send us an email. Andy writes. Okay, now you're going full names. All right. I just look. All right. Beat that one out. Andy.

Sorry, I'm giving Craig Moore work right now. All right. Anonymous person writes, I realized that there were probably thousands of people who lost their game because of D.K. Metcalf getting the ball punched out at the goal line. And I was one of them as I lost by 2.7 points.

But it was especially painful as I was the highest score of my league in week in week and we was one and two. And this play not only cost me the game, but also cost me the rare feat of being the highest score in the league for each of the first three weeks. The only saving grace is that we have a great twist in our league where we put $5 per week into a quote, progressive bad beat jackpot. Oh, that's nice. To win the jackpot, you have to be the second highest score for the week in our 12 team

league, but lose to the team with the most points. So I got the jackpot this week of $35. We've had it grow as high as $150 of fear. ago, I recommend this feature to all leagues out there, and I thought it was especially worth to mention during Bad Beats. Oh my guys. My friends are going to love this idea. I love that.

Yeah. This is a good one. Progressive Bad Beat Jackpot. Progressive Bad Beat Jackpot. All right. So sorry to everyone who lost for DK, particularly sorry to Nile for leaving. How mad was Pete Carroll at D.K. Metcalfe, you think? Well, no, they were so positive.

And also, this to me was also a profound test of Russell's positivity because Russ just is, he's like, shock and smart. He won't yell at anyone at any moment of any time. And I was like, I wonder if Russ said anything mean and I don't think he did.

Said anything mean. Well, Russ is just like every cliche that there's ever been an athlete all just became sentient and he just was wondering if he was going to snap and he didn't.

He was just like, don't do that again. And then he caught the game winning touchdown. People were really pissed because after that play, they showed him on the bench like a few minutes later

and he was laughing. DK Metcalf or Russ? Metcalf. He was like, laughing. People were like, you know, all the the old man takes, like my dad texts to me. He's like really mad about it.

I agree with that. He should not be laughing on the sidelines. Well, you got to get loose and look, Craig was the old soul of this podcast. You believe in the athlete's speak of next rep. Like, you forget the past short memory or, and he caught the game when he touched down. So I'm going to roll the short memories.

I understand why people are mad about this. But honestly, I would weigh about it. Like, if he's an important part of your team, like, it's good that he doesn't just all of a sudden lose all of his confidence. Imagine like you're coaching

a high school basketball game and there's one second left and one guy's got a wide open lamp but instead he tries to winmill dunk and he fucking misses it. Yeah, no. You're going to be like, it's all right, Bobby. The single most important thing about football that everyone forgets all the time is you do what your coaches tell you to do. And if his coach

said, never do that again and now put it out of your mind and get back in this game because we need you, which is basically what Russ said, then you do what they do what said and you go back to being how you were. It's just weird that he's having a good old time right after that. That's all I'm saying.

Look, man. If he makes this mistake again, if he makes this mistake again, then I'll get mad. I'm not mad right now. All right. It's next rep. And for us, it's next pod because this has gone on for too long. This was us. You know what? I'm happy for the hills I retreated from and I feel like the hills I'm going to die on,

Will Fuller. I'm going to die bravely. And I'm very proud of it. All right. You bury me there in satin. It'll be great. Okay. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Craig. Please, please let me thank you one day, Will Fuller.

Thank you to everyone who emailed us. Ring your fantasy football at gmail.com. Please send us your bad beats. Questions you got, fun facts, all the sort. Always will take tree questions, but anything else you got. And thank you everyone. We'll see you guys on Friday.