The Ringer NFL Show - Tricks to Win Your Draft and Hard Knocks Episode 1

Episode Date: August 17, 2020

We recap our favorite moments from the first episode of 'Hard Knocks' (00:00) before we break down snake, auction, and dynasty drafts and offer up our tips and tricks to come out on top.  'Hard Knocks' (1:24) Snake drafts (13:52) Auction drafts (30:14) Dynasty drafts (45:12) Check out The Ringer Fantasy Football Guide for our updated top 150, positional tiers, expert mock drafts, and more. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. I'm Danny Heifitz and I'm here with my co-host, Danny Kelly and Craig Worldbeck. Important question. Did you guys watch Hard Knocks this week? What are you kidding? I actually just got done watching it yet. We have to talk about Sean McVeigh's house. Who has a cooler house?

McVeigh or Cliff Kingsbury? Kingsbury. McVeys looks kind of small but it's like tucked away at this nice hill and this beautiful, beautiful view. I would take the view over the house. I'm all about the view being the most important thing. I mean, yeah, Cliffs in Arizona, which is just worse. I was struck by the juxtaposition between Anthony Lynn's marriage, which seems so comfortable.

And then McVeigh and his fiancee would just kind of like, she's like, yeah, you know, he just has to coach something. So, you know, he taught our dog. And then they start bouncing the ball off the dog's face. and she's just like, this is all they did this summer, and it was just so cringe. That dog is unimpressive to me. That was not an impressive sport move by the dog. They were like, oh, like, Buster's been practicing all week,

and he just like smashes his snout into a basketball, and I'm supposed to be impressed. I thought he was, it did. I thought he was going to make it. Like, he hits it into the hoop. He just hits it back. Well, it's like playing catch, but instead of catching, he just smashes with his face.

But, dude, I straight up was like, isn't that dangerous? Like, should the dog be doing that with its snout? To me, if you've spent all summer training with your dog and that's his best move, don't put that on the episode. Yeah, you think McVeigh was like a better coach. Like, I kind of expected him to be like, who's that famous dog trainer guy?

I don't know, but should I be worried about the Rams players because McVeigh can't coach his own dog? Maybe that's just how they're teaching. He's clearly highly specialized, though. Like, he, the way he talks when he's coaching and stuff, I was actually noticing that. Like, he's so dialed into the football stuff that it's actually, I think it's so specialized.

it's, it's, how about when he was like, guys, we got to be better about wearing the masks? I know that I need to be better too. You need to hold me accountable. Like, okay, how about you put on a mask right now? You're yelling at people. There are so much spit coming out of your mouth. Start right now. He put on like the, like the clear like painters mask thing.

I think that thing is absolute BS. The whole lower part is open. The science of it doesn't make any sense. And he's like, oh, this is way better. And it's like, yeah, dude, because it doesn't block your, your breath and air particles. I also, so here's, McVeigh just came off like this football robot and kind of cracked the facility.

You see a photo of him, you're like, oh, wow, he's handsome, young, smart. You hear him talk, you're like, okay, so he knows football and I'm not sure what else is going on there. But then Anthony Lynn comes out with so much SponCon, I was blown away. He had the Porsche hat, the CAA shirt.

They got the grill logo for the company was the first thing in like the second. I was just, and he's like, yeah, I'm making the chicken. And then his wife is like, are you using our fine wedding China to like wrapping a like a napkin around with rubber band to

rub this meat. He's like, yeah I am. And I'm like, wow, this looks like a great marriage. Can I just say that McVeigh is John Gruden? Like, McVeigh is like simultaneously the oldest and youngest coach in the league. Like I actually was kind of taken a back at how like football John Gruden locked in like don't

blink he is. But Gruden was his first boss. He kind of has no personality, McVey. He's just like. Straight up. Gruden came back to the NFL because he gave Sean McVey's first job, and I believe Kyle Shanhan had one of his first jobs on that book staff. Yeah, they were all on the same staff. It's insane. And so basically he came back because Gruden, when he was a coach, was like, oh, wow, young, brilliant Super Bowl winner.

And then McVeigh and Shanhan got all this credit. And Gruden's like, God damn it, I'm better than those guys. So he like took $100 million. Like, screw it. Like, I'm back. The whole thing was that a petty. They have a shadow war because the Rams signed Blake Bortles, which is like a coach reclamation thing. Like, no, the problem was coach. Blake's good. And so the Raiders signed Nathan Peterman. Because Gruden's like,

I can fix Nathan Peterman. It's crazy. I thought that I thought Anthony Lynn was awesome though. He was great. I want to run through a wall for that guy. The best scene in the entire show,

though, was when this Andrew Vollert guy gets cut. You guys remember this? He's like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. Before he even says anything, you got to be fucking kidding me.

You got to be kidding me. Yeah, man. Yeah. You got to be fucking kidding. kidding me. I just work my ass off and I know I can play. And it's the most coach thing ever that Anthony Lynn went into Tom Telesco, the GM's

office and was like, yo, that was sweet. He was kind of pissed. Like, I like his fire. Yeah, he was like, that was the first time I said. I didn't know you had emotions. Coaches respect that, you know? Just come in. Fuck this. I also have to I have to talk for a minute about Jalen Ramsey.

Yeah. Yeah. Jalen Ramsey had this. They was funny, like, at first. Like, they had this press conference. They were showing a press conferences alike now. So there's all the reporters in Zoom and then Jalen Ramsey sits down And then someone asks him about his contract situation

Because he's going into the last year of his deal And he says, I'm going to let my agent handle that with the team And then the guy follows up I know that but how do you feel Not having the security of an extension this season And he's like, I'm just going to let my agent And the team handle that And then he laughs and he's like, you know, I can't answer that question

And then the reporter's like, okay, yeah But it's a legit question, how do you feel? And then he just kind of, he gets really mad storms out, eventually returns. He's a little calmer. And he kind of says, I don't want to call it a rant, but it was like 60 full seconds of like,

what are you doing? Like, one quote that kind of summarizes the whole thing. He says, when I give you all an answer, that's the answer. I don't appreciate y'all trying to push me to a different answer because that's not what you wanted to hear.

You know, what's funny is he kind of then answered the question. I know, I was going to say, actually did answer. Well, and he's like, I actually told my agent,

I don't want to hear anything. We're like, that's actually really interesting. But his answer was actually really good. It's like, I'm going to control what I can control. And then that's all I can control. And that's what I'm going to do. He's like, it'll be a surprise when it comes to me and I'll be happy.

But like, I can't do anything about it. Yeah. Here's my thing, though. He got so mad that they asked him about this. He walked out. He stormed out. Last year, Jalen Ramsey came to training camp in a Brinks truck. Okay?

Like, he showed up to the first day, crawled out of the back of a Brinks truck with fake money bags behind him. and a hype man with a megaphone was talking about how much money he was going to make on his next contract. How dare you ask me this question? When the next year you show up and you're like,

how dare you ask me about my contract? I'm like, dude, I don't have many rules of life, but one of them is, if you show up in a Brinks truck to training camp, there was a two-year moratorium on you getting mad

about people asking you about money. That's our 10 commandments of football. That's one of them. Don't show up in a Brinks truck and people won't ask you as many questions about it. All right? I feel like this episode really drove home for me, the idea that like all high-level athletes,

because everyone in the NFL is a really great athlete, really, really, like, top of your whole, like everyone you ever knew your whole life, this is the guy that's the best at what he does, right? Even if they're like some shitty guy who's at the end of the roster, they're the best player at whatever that you've ever met probably growing up. Yeah. What it really drove home for me is like, to be a professional athlete, you have to be a a little bit insane, right?

You know, like this Andrew Vollert guy, who I've never heard of, who he was an undrafted free agent at a Weber State. Shout out Dame Lillard. Comes into the office and is like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. You're cutting me?

You're cutting me? Did you see? He kind of got like alpha close to the desk where he was like, yo, I don't give a shit about COVID. He got really close and was like, what's up, dude, you're firing me? And then Jalen Ramsey like does this fake storm off thing.

I know. These guys have to have, like, It's something we've talked about with the Michael Jordan Dock. They manufacture things to be pissed off about. Obviously, getting cut is something to be pissed off about. But when you're an undrafted free agent, fifth guy, fifth tight end on the roster from Weber State, is it Weber State or Weber State?

Regardless. The point is, I don't know. That's an important kind of variable to all this. I just think it's hilarious, man. You've got to have a totally different mindset. Those guys are so Uber, ultra-competitive. it's what I mean I just think it's interesting did you guys think that the nose swabs

for COVID were like not as bad as I thought I've seen other videos of people getting them done and it looks like it goes to the back of your skull these were weak this is inside of the dumb question can I ask a dumb question maybe I should be informed and I've figured this out by now why do the swabs have to go so deep is there something better about your

mucus in the back of your head as opposed to the mucus in the front of your nose well I don't know maybe if you're always blown it out it's just like you know it's not as accurate right at the You tell me there's not enough of my germs in my nasal cavity. They're like, no, we got to go all the way up. Like, that part has been a mystery to me. I think they changed the test, you guys.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the... You don't have to go as deep now? The one where you have to poke it into your brain is like an older version of this test. Now they have... That makes my eyes water thinking about it. Well, back in my day, you had to get your scalp scrapped. Did you guys kind of think that the chargers were like... Like, if you didn't know anything about football and you watched both of these teams

and somebody said which team was in the Super Bowl two years ago, I think I would have picked the Chargers. 100%. He looks pretty good. Anthony Lynn's got to afford that grill somehow. Yeah, and they look really organized. They spent more time with the Chargers and the team seemed more together.

I don't know. I'm getting kind of hyped on Justin Herbert. He seemed cool. He had the hair band like Mark Sanchez. That got you hyped? That man's going to be a leader of men? Did you see his balls? The balls he was thrown?

I'll say, I understood what they meant. He did have a nice ball. It was a nice ball. Tight spiral, but it was kind of a light pass. I don't know. Something about it. Oh, yeah, I'm always very impressed by how people can throw balls into nets in shorts with no... The whole point of being a quarterback is can you do that when a 300-pound man is trying to hurt you as much as possible?

That's the point. We'll see. Chargers look solid. I have my doubts about young Justin Herbert. Anyway, let's get into face. Where's Cooper Cubs? Where's Bobby Trees? Nothing.

Where's Tyler Higby? I guess they're not crowd pleasers. They're coming. All right. Well, that was hard knocks episode one. Let's also, let's just talk about Lamar Miller real quick because we didn't get to him. We did our last episode before he was signed. So real quick, Patriots signed Lamar Miller. He missed all last season.

I mean, ACL injury. Seems like Sony Michelle might start the year on PUP. Yeah. So physically unable to perform. So do you guys like Lamar Miller for fantasy this year? Or do you still like Damian Harris more or just James White? What do you guys make of this now? Once again, Bill Belichick's just tossing a wrench and screwing everything up.

I don't know. This kind of brings everybody's value down to me. I would say it makes James White more interesting to me. More interesting than before Lamar Miller? Slightly more. I think he could get more use just because he's a veteran. He's been in that system for so long. Maybe they'll use him for more than just like a pass-catching role.

Maybe he'll get some, you know, early down stuff. But I would say the nature of the, like, signing him so late Lamar Miller would indicate to me he's their number three behind D.M. and Harris and James White. So Damien Harris, I think, is definitely worth taking a shot on late. And it almost just takes Sony off my board. Like, you can't wait around until week six to get him. Like, he's not even probably worth drafting at this point.

Sony pegs me as somebody who's not going to be in the league in two years. I think, yeah, it's just the knee thing. You know, he wasn't impressive at all in the first two seasons. So I think that, you know, just running backs are so fungible at this point. They're just going to do something. So who do you would you rather have? Damian Harris or Lamar Miller? Harris.

Harris for sure. Because I don't think Lamar Miller has the upside of like, oh yeah, he's going to be a, might be a top 10 back. If Damian Harris just wins the job, you know, who knows?

He's a young guy. He's really good at Alabama. And then one note on James White. James White has dropped one pass and third down in the last three years. So I think that... Mr. Reliable. Like, who's going to be receiver for pass?

It's James White. It's always James White. So, all right, let's get into draft strategy, really just tricks to win your draft. It's like, you know those like clickbait articles of like 11 weird tricks to lose 40 pounds? Like that's this. 11 weird tricks to win your draft.

But we're going to run through snake auction and even a little dynasty. And I think we're going to start with just kind of general overview first. And then we'll just apply those things to this season. So we'll start just, I mean, snake draft is the most common one. So I think how most people do it, even though let's be honest here, auction is superior. There are a lot of problems in capitalism. But you know what? If capitalism isn't everyone's laying,

level playing field. Everyone starts at the same amount of capital. You know what? Better system. You don't have to just handing out equal picks. You know what? Sorry, auctions are better than Snake. Yeah, DK, come on. Come on. I prefer Snake. What? What? Really? If you just get the 10th pick, you're like, well, I can't get Sequin Barclay. And that's just how it is. Yeah, but you get the 10th pick and then you get four picks later or five weeks later. On auction, you can have whoever you want. No, but you can have those players. The point is with an auction, you can still pay to get those 10th and 11 players you're going to draft, but with auction, it's literally impossible.

Or sorry, Snake, it's literally impossible. If you want McCaffrey and Safe 1 on your team, can't make it happen. I understand that. Yes. I understand the reason that you like auctions more. I believe in efficient markets, TK. No, I don't know. I just think, in terms of the way I, like, visualize drafting, the way I think about it,

the values of guys, I don't think in, like, oh, this guy's a $30 guy. You know what I mean? Like, he's a fourth rounder or whatever. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's just my lack of the way you were raised. Yeah. I was just, you know, I don't care about the fairness.

I just think, you know, you get stuck at the ninth position in a draft, then you deal with it. It's the luck of the draw. So I don't actually mind that at all. I just prefer snake drafts, but I definitely understand the draw of auction drafts and how you can literally get any player. All right. So when you're approaching a snake

draft, what is like some general tips you have for people? For starters, yeah, like where you draft in the round is important. So go into the draft if you're in early, if you have like the first one through five picks, that basically means you're probably going to

come out of there with, in a one QB league, you're going to come out of there with one of the stud running back. So that kind of dictates how you approach the rest of your draft. If you kind of know you're going to get one of McCaffrey, Seek, Camara, or Cook. So that kind of, to me that like

sort of dictates how you approach the rest of your draft. You know you're going to get one of those stud running backs. But if you're going to get one of those stud running backs, But if you're in the end of the round, you have a whole different, you know, series of questions to ask yourself. So I like to go in with a little bit of a plan. Obviously, things can change if a guy falls. But I say to myself, like, I want to get in the first two rounds because you have that, you know, the snake draft, you have like back-to-back pick sort of if you're laying the round. I want to come out with at least one stud running back, one stud receiver or two receivers in this draft.

I want to just load up on that. I want to come out there with like either Kittle or Kelsey. So I like to go in with a plan kind of how I want to. want to build my team and visualize it. So it's not just, you know, you're not just kind of picking randomly as you go along. To me, that would be like the first thing you think about is how, what kind of team do I want? Yeah, I think with Snake, you can actually adhere to a strategy much more than any other draft style where I don't want to say you can pick your team before. I mean, there's two, there's really two types of snake drafting, one where you know your draft pick a month before and one where you find out like 10 minutes before your draft.

Right, right. And if you know your pick for a month, I mean, you can pretty. much script out your team and have your tiers and get pretty close to it, I think, especially if you know the people you're drafting with. So I recommend doing a ton of mocks, especially if you know your pick, do a million of them with real people, not robots. And make sure it's the right amount of people in the league. Like if you have a 12 team league, don't do 10 team mocks. Exactly. And then you'll kind of see what your team could end up looking like and you can have your tiers. And then as you go through the draft, it's like, all right, well, I wanted to get a receiver here, but I can't. That

happened to me in a mock. So I'll get this running back in my next tier that I wanted. And I actually think it's not as fun because it's way more scripted. But you can, I think, essentially get close to picking your team before you even draft. Yeah. Do you guys care at all about biweeks? No. No. I would actually prefer everybody to be on the same week once.

Just take the L. I'd actually love to see a study on that, like, if that ever is the right choice. Rather than just be injured by like 15% every week, just give me the L. I've always been fascinated by the biweek There's only like six pieces of information That you can like see when you're drafting And the fact that the biweek is always listed It's just I know, why do that?

That's just not one of the pieces of information I'm trying to figure out at that moment I don't even look at it It's not relevant I really don't think so Do you guys have any problem stacking players in the same team? No No I think it I mean it I think it's

It depends on like The settings for your league like stacks work really well in best ball because that means like you're getting these explosion like outputs potentially and all that so in stacking but unless anyone doesn't know it's like getting a quarterback and a receiver on the same team yeah I mean I think it stacking makes so much sense like if you if you want to try and stack the the chiefs for instance like that's obviously going to pay dividends for you if you can do it so I have no problems with it so all right so just a couple other general things just for snake drafts but this is really a

all drafts is honestly just number one is start prep like first of all sweat saves blood like you have to prepare and the first thing is just you have to know your league like you have to know the rules it's like the most basic thing but know how many teams are in your league know how many rosters but little things have such a huge difference

you're starting two receivers know the scoring or three receivers know the scoring how much is a catch worth in my opinion should be nothing but maybe it's worth a full point that really matters all those little things actually go through and read your freaking settings. Never mind the fact that maybe you want to change some of them

because they're dumb, but really know them. I was actually in a fantasy baseball league last year where without really knowing when the commissioner changed saves as a category to saves and holds and no one like figured this out until an hour before and everyone was like,

all right, whatever. And I was like, wait a second, you're telling me that middle relievers are worth the exact same as closers. And it's just little things like that. It just actually read your settings. I cannot stress this enough. And then also the smallest trick that you can actually do,

if you're an hour away from your draft, is just use different rankings. Because there's actually this psychological effect called anchoring that if you see a player's ranked 80th, that's your brain starting point. You can't actually move them off of that. Everyone, I don't care how informed you are, when you see the,

you weren't influenced by the rankings in front of you. The simplest thing you can do is have a different rankings next to you so that you can actually spot the value that people are leaving on the table. We'll actually go way into depth in that. Actually, on an episode we're going to do soon, but that is one of the best pieces of advice I can actually toss to you. That's practical.

You want it in front of you different rankings. Yeah. I was actually going to say the exact same thing. I actually still, even like now I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of ADP and the value of players and where guys, the range they should be going just based on us building our rankings and just doing like kind of living in this. But I still, when I go into drafts,

I still take either a ranking from a person I really trust or respect or just look at ADP based on either, you know, like you can have, you can look at best ball ADP, which I think is interesting because people have skin in the game. And so it's not just like based on mock drafts. So that's one thing to look at. But wherever you, whoever you trust the most or whoever you think has the best grasp of rankings or which version of ADP you trust the most, whether it's best ball, you know, the best ball ADP or just something from fantasy pros or whatever.

Take that in with you. I actually build, I just put it in a spreadsheet and then I cross guys off as we go on. We actually have that at the Ringer Fantasy Football Draft Guide too. You can actually just cross guys off based on our rankings as they get picked in the draft. And that way you can kind of look like you, like you're saying, Danny, you can look at the rankings on ESPN or Yahoo or whatever and you can compare it to guys

in the ADP or the rankings that you're looking at on a different like area and see where there's value. See where guys are falling based on where you are on the draft. And I think that's a really, really smart way to kind of like just build a team that you're not reaching too much on guys and you're capturing the value when guys are falling. The other thing, this is just a really basic thing, but it's really worth keeping in mind,

especially sometimes when you're on the fence and the clock is ticking down. Really so much of this comes down to actually figuring out your process of like there's 10 seconds left, what do I do? one of them is you want to start with a low risk and then you want to raise your risk profile by the end of the draft. So you're starting your first, second round pick. Those are players that you want them to be healthy, you want them

to be good and you want them to be really, really great and like bedrocks of your team. You want to nail those picks. And then by the end of the draft, you're just swinging for the fed. You are swinging for a 450-foot-home run. You don't care if you strike out. And so it's not like it's a switch that's turned on and off. You're kind of raising your risk profile slowly

throughout the draft. You can do that at your own pace. It's just know that you have to do that that it's really hard to be successful. No offense, Craig. If you're just trying to get Cole Beasley or whoever, you're trying to get upside guys toward the end of drafts. And then on that note, another thing that really helps with that is, we've talked about this a lot over the last couple weeks,

but use tiers. The two things I have in front of me when I do a draft is I have a different set of rankings, so I'm not influenced by the ones in front of my face. And the other ones I want tiers because tiers are actually the last thing I'm using at, which is a positional tier where it's every wide receiver, in that would even be a little draftable, broken into groups of basically, how satisfied would I be with this person

if I have them? So the number one top tier of receivers is Michael Thomas and Devante. I love them. I think they're going to be one two this year. But then eventually you want to group them of like, oh, I'd be very happy these guys as my wide receiver one.

I'd be unhappy. I'd be despondent if this was my top receiver. And oh, I'd be happy this was my second receiver. That's, it's a really simple way to categorize. But when at the, when there's eight seconds left, and you're like, oh, there's one running back left. actually want to start for me. There's eight receivers. That makes the decision for you. So so much of it comes down to actually just having, whether it's pieces of paper or something on

your phone, whatever it is in front of you, just actually have the stuff you need with 15 seconds left in front of your face. Now do we want to spin this to this year specifically to the 2020 snake draft and how we'd like to handle it? Let's. I think it's really simple this year. You don't have to do this concretely, but I am definitely aiming to come out of the first two rounds with two running backs and then get receiver in the next three rounds because that's just how running back works this year with tier again what I was similar tiers there's like 12 guys I want to play running back for me and after that it's just awful yeah I'm taking kind of the exact same route I think running back early

receivers in the mid-rowns because there's so many good receivers this year I feel like and then tight end and quarterback late and the reason I like that I always like quarterback late if you're in a one quarterback league I just think there's so much value to be had by, you know, you can either stream guys week to week or if you luck out and get Lamar Jackson in the 10th round this year, then you're set. But it just makes so much sense to pick a quarterback late. And then the other thing is, there's just a lot of really interesting tight ends this season that I think could break out, whether you're talking about Ian Thomas, Jay Sternberger. You can get those guys really late too and stream to position if it doesn't

work out. Yeah, I even think I want three running backs in my first five rounds. I want to go running back, running back in my first two, receiver, receiver, three and four. running back in the fifth or something like that and then receiver late. Because even rounds like 6, 7, 8, you can still get guys like Deontay Johnson, Marquise Brown. Like, I've even tried. There's been mock drafts where like a good receiver fell in the second round.

And I was like, wow, you know, I can get Julio Jones at the end of the second round and I did it. And I still hated my team because I didn't like my running backs. And it's like, I almost don't even care which wide receivers fall. I'm just going to take running backs. I did a Superflex league the other day, a league draft. and I got Camara, Echler, and Jonathan Taylor in the first three rounds, and then I hit, I got Odell Beckham in the sixth round for my wide receiver one,

who I think could be a wide receiver one. So I feel really good about that draft. Wait, why was he in the sixth round? Sorry, fourth round. Fourth round. I was like, I don't know why. Sorry, that was this bye week. I think I was looking at.

Speaking of the needless information. Get rid of the five weeks. So, yeah, I like, I think it's better to get two top 12 running backs. The numbers show that the running backs that you draft each year between 12 and 24, never pin out. It's like a terribly low rate of the guys between 12 and 24 that end up as top 12 guys. So my recommendation is just get guys who are already in the top 12 and then get guys who are past 24. Get your two studs up top and then get your Tarek Cohen's, your rookie guys like DeAndre Swift's, and your James White's. Interesting. I love this kind of stuff. All this like game

theory, how to draft it. Well, it's really funny because this is like not sports at all. This is math. We're like, this is like economics. Yeah. We could have a professor come in and probably break down all these trends and be like, well, you know, value-wise. Like, this is actually what you should do, especially when you get into auction. Yeah. What's the most efficient, like order of positions to draft if you're in the sixth spot? If somebody goes for $70, like, this is how you should adjust your things.

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Should we give a brief overview of, like, everybody in an auction draft standard typically gets $200 fake dollars? Yeah. And you have to spend all your money. Again, I cannot recommend auction enough. It's really fun. Everyone has a pick just like Snake, and you can nominate a guy when it's your turn to make a pick,

and you can nominate anybody you want, bid however much you want, and then you can bid for any player. Yeah, so there's essentially, two schools of thought in terms of how to approach an auction draft. And the first school of thought is the balanced approach where you try and find value. You try and get guys for, you know, under what you think they're worth and build a team that way. Or you can go the start, what's called the Stars and Scrubs route where you basically go in and you get, you know, Christian McCaffrey for 65, 70 bucks. And

two or three guys, really high-priced guys, you spend most of your your budget on. I guess like your studs, obviously, and then you basically end up with a bunch of one-and-two-dollar players with the rest of your roster. And in my experience, honestly, I don't know if there's necessarily a right way to do it. It kind of depends on who you pick, clearly. But in my experience, the balanced method does not fucking work.

It's just like way harder. In my personal experience, every time I try to go balance, like, my team sucks. I have a counter to that, D.K., the one time I won my big league. I went really balanced auction draft. I spent like $25 to $35 on every player.

Yeah. And they all hit. I don't know if that just means they're less likely. But you hit on the right players and that will work. It could work. I just feel like the odds of it working are lower. Here's the thing about a balanced strategy. Everyone has the same budget, right?

You know what a budget's called? A balance. Everyone's spending the same amount of money. Stars and Scrubs is also balanced. So like balance, it's not even like a balance strategy. It's just kind of like letting the chips. like I'm just going to take, I'm going to stack up on a lot of, like,

good players. But in reality, it often seems like the better thing is, no, you want a few great freaking players. And then the scrubs are getting, week in and week out. And then the scrubs are like,

these guys could also be great. And so, like, like with running back, a lot of times what I've done in the past is we called zero running back. We need a new running name. What we're talking about here is like savings bonds

and scratchoffs. You get run running back who's like a savings bond, like the McCaffrey and the Saquan. and then you bet against a bunch of scratch-off guys who's like Tony Pollard on Dallas or someone and then you want to try to hit that. This year, I actually think it's with running, well, let's not get into this year for right now.

Let's stick with like general stuff. We'll get into 2020 for a second. A couple other just general strategy things for auction. This isn't rocket science. Get money off of the board. Like it sounds so simple. The players you don't want, get them off first. Yeah, nominate guys you don't like.

I'm a big fan of. that. When everyone has a lot of money, they spend money. That's something we see in real life all the time. And then you don't have money in your cheap. It's like when you have a lot. So if you are not going to draft Lamar Jackson, if you're going to draft, you're like, you know what? I'm going to spend a dollar on Matt Ryan. That's all I want. Nominate Lamar first. Let people fight over him. Like, what's that Godzilla meme? It's like, let them fight. Do that. Do that with everyone. All the players you're not going to draft that, get as much money off the board first, which seems super obvious. And also, as a general rule, go get the guys you want.

That's the whole point of the format. But let them come to you. Get the players you want. Well, no, yeah. So it's a, it's a dance of like, you don't want to overspend for your guys and you're not trying to like overpay just because you like them

to the point where they're overvalued. But as a rule, you'd rather spend $5 too much on Saquan Barclay than have to spend $5 too much to go get Jordan Howard. That's a great point. That's a life lesson. spend a little extra money

don't tickey tax the dollar or two extra for like the premium bona fide like this is a great pro like this is a great person to have on my team and then if you don't do that two hours later you're like oh my god I have to overpay to make sure that I get like Sammy Watkins

when I think about auction but auction drafts you have to the difference between oxen drafts and snake drafts for me is you have to go in with conviction of guys that you're going to come out of there with because if you just when Craig said, like, let them come to you. Like, when I've gone into an auction and someone's, some player is, you know, not getting bit up as much as I thought, sometimes I'll jump in and grab them.

But in the end, like, I feel like you need to go in with a plan of like, I want to get these three guys or I want to get these two guys and then three of these six guys. Well, I don't think it's too. I think you have to have more than the list because if it's only two people, then you can get stuck into, oh, I have to overpay for them. You want more guys than the list. Two out of these four guys or whatever. Yes, exactly. Two of the four. That's very important. Have to have conviction, in my opinion. I think you have to be just a good improviser.

And I think the three rules of auction drafting are pay the hell attention because it's a three plus hour draft. And unlike Snake, every round, sorry, every pick matters because you can bid on every single pick. So you can't go to the bathroom. So pee before. Pay attention every single time. It's all about balance. Don't drink, no water because then your eyes will glaze over, but you can't drink too much water. Yes, and if you're with a bunch of guys who are in their 20s, odds are they're going to be on their phones or get distracted, like literally just pay attention and I guarantee you you will get, I mean, sometimes you go back and look through a draft and everyone's going to get pizza and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, well, Jackson's going to get Darren Waller for eight bucks. No one's going to do anything about this, and then it just happens.

Here's this is actually the best piece of advice of all, because you know what, we can talk about strategy and stuff forever. It's not rocket science. They have a suggested price for every freaking player that's really close to what the value is. and we're ultimately talking about small discrepancies from that number. But as a general rule, if the player goes for less than that number, it's a good pick. And so really it comes down to a war of attrition of who can take their mangled, warped attention span, and actually focus for four hours. That person will probably have the best team. Because, see, the thing is, when DK was like there's kind of two strategies,

there's the balanced team or like the balanced roster where everyone's like a B minus or stars and scrubs, where you get A pluses and D pluses. I think you can't go in deciding you're going to do either one. I think it's important to know who you're drafting. And I actually think that's like one of the most important things is maybe look at last year's draft that you did with the same group if you're in a league like that. Because if everyone does stars and scrubs, it's obviously less valuable for you to do it. I really think you just have to know when somebody is not paying correctly for a player.

Like you just have to be able to see, oh, for some reason, no one likes. Maybe it's just because six running back just went in a row. And then Joe Mixen's up and he's going for $32. And you're like, this is wrong. I'm going to get it. Or like, there's always a few of those. You need soft. Although, yeah, you need a plan going in.

And then it's Mike Tyson. Everyone's got a plan to get punched in the mouth. You need to be able to adapt. But can I give you my actual best piece of advice for an auction. You can't drink. And that sounds like a dead ass. You have a couple. You have a couple beers.

It's a slippery slope. Then you got to pee. You got to be honest with yourself because here's the thing. It is very easy to get away with being a little drunk during a snake draft. For sure. It's very hard to kind of do an auction good because, like, really what you're doing is you're spending money. I don't know about you guys.

It's not, I'm not the best person at managing my finances when I'm hammered. And the best advantage you can have in an auction draft is, you know what, prep goes so far. If you're sober and other people are like slowly, like, hammered, that's at the end of the auction is when you can clean up. I'm telling you. Not to be a buzzkill. No, you're so right.

Campin tastes better than beer. You're so right. The champagne is better than beer. Or you can do the champagne of beer. Shouts out Miller Highland. It's better than like being drunk on drafting. That's what I'm saying. It's like a spy movie.

It's like they pretend to drink. They fake the shots. That's what you got to do. It's like you go to shotgun. You spill half your beer. If you think you're the smartest person in your draft, which the three of us obviously are in ours, I think it's good to save a little bit of money for the end

because people, usually blow their load in the top. And by the end, there's like all of these guys who are going for $2, $3, $4, like, Tariq Cohen and you're like, this is an absolute. Exactly. You can get an $8 player for two in the last thing. That's where auctions are crazy. And again, this is psychological warfare. Bring two 30 racks and then don't drink a beer. Do whatever it takes. Love that move. There's, there's an element of when you guys are just talking about this. And I, I don't have a specific, like, strategy that I take, but I know some people do. where you time, you time it where you want to like make your most bidding in, like,

some people will be like, I want to just bid a lot on, like early on and kind of just go for it. Or some guys are like, I'm going to wait, I'm going to let people bid early where they're going to be more aggressive, throw money around. And then I'm going to be like the guy in the middle who, like when people are starting to lose their, you know, lose their attention span and all that, that's when I'm going to be most aggressive. And then, you know, obviously I totally agree with the thing where you always want to have, like say 20 bucks or something like that when most people are down to like two and three bucks because then you can have whoever the fuck you want at the end.

So I just think timing timing your bid like your bid strategy is kind of important too, but I don't have like a specific one. The hardest part is that eventually you have to spend a lot of money and you either do that early. I wouldn't necessarily be afraid to do it. But at some point you spend a lot of money and you're like, wow, I won't be able to bid on a player for like it might be an hour. That hour is the hardest part because that's where you have to like stay so over.

and like still pay attention. Just because you're not picking people, you're still bidding people up. That's the thing. Yeah. So that's the hardest part and the part that if you can pay attention for that space and get to the point where you still have the money to spend money in players, it's joyous.

But let's get to specifically for this year, now that we've talked about psychological warfare and pretending to drink with your friends. One more thing for the psychological warfare, the thing to add. Beware in your league of fan tax, like if you have a friend who's a fan of the Broncos, for instance, and they're going to overpay for. or Jerry Judy or whoever, you know.

Exactly. Like, be, you know, be aware of that and don't pay the fan tax, in other words. Nominate, I was saying before, get money off the board. Do that first. If you're in a group of fans who are Patriots fans, get Gronk and Brady up first. Get Cam Newton. Do those, get those immediately. Let them blow their dumb money, especially if they're hammered.

So applying this specifically to this year, I think this year in auctions, a thing I've become fascinated with is just, I just want two of the top. four or five running backs. I'm just, if you don't have to pay through the nose, but willing to overpay a little bit, just can you actually get

McCaffrey and Sequin or just McCaffrey and Camaro, whatever, on the same team, get, spend three or four dollars for a couple of quarterbacks or just one,

two or, like three or four bucks on a couple tight ends, not spend any money a defense and kicker and just can you budget out your receiver bill to go all high upside guys? Because the thing I'm fascinated with

is like Michael Thomas is 55, but you've got guys like Marquise Brown is six bucks and ESPN. Will Fuller's like seven bucks. Deontay Johnson's like two or three dollars. Yeah, but are those guys really going for that little? No, but even if you have to pay up a little bit, you don't need all five of those high upside receivers.

Well, let's do it right now. Let's say Christian McCaffrey is 70 bucks and Alvin Kumar is 65. That puts you at 135. You want to spend $10 total on your tight ends and your quarterbacks. Now you're at 145. You got 55 bucks left to build out the rest of your team. Exactly. And what's interesting about that is...

I think that's low. It's, well, it's low, but I'm saying it's, I'm intrigued by it. It's doable. I'm intrigued by if you just threw a bunch of darts by, at the receiver position, because Mikul Hardman, if you just get, like, guys who are theoretically cheap,

now this depends on people actually. It depends on you being able to get some of the receivers you want. Obviously, it's difficult. And you're not trying to pay too much, but on ESPN, like McCaffrey's listed at $59 and Camar's listed at $54. No. That's a bar. If you can,

I know you're not going to actually pay for them in draft, but if you can actually get the two of them for $113, to me, that's a no-brainer. Yeah, but that's not even going to happen. I might not. I know it's not necessarily,

but I'm saying that I don't think I would do it if you had to pay 140 for them, 130 for them, 130. But there's a number between 130 and 110 that I would do it. And it's just something to, the point I'm trying to say is you need imagination. Like, there's combos of, like, it's part of an inception where he hands them the bigger gun.

It's like you need to think with a little more. You can do whatever you want. So like don't just think your team has to follow this thing of like, oh, all these players will be in a descending order of talent. If you want Michael Thomas and Kumar, you can do that. That's all I'm trying to say. Yeah. It's so much better, D.K., you're nuts. I mean, I'm not saying it.

Don't be afraid to dream. That's my freaking point here. Like, if you want CMC and Sequin and they're not like bidding you up like crazy, just do it. Don't be afraid to dream, DK. Do you wake up every morning and you're like, I didn't dream of anything last night. I'm writing down my dream diary. one of the things I'm trying to do during this Rona time,

I'm trying to figure out if I can lose a dream. And I found that you're supposed to write down your dreams so that helps a lot. You know what's funny? I know this is nuts. My mom said she can do it

when she was a kid. Dude, that's like the craziest thing. The fact that there are, of all the things of like, oh, you can just do this. The fact that, oh yeah, every day I could just be in my own head and dreaming for like a couple hours.

That's the craziest thing. She lost it as she got older, she said, and I looked it up. And apparently that's a thing is you lose it as you age. The world just makes you jaded and you can't. Childhood wonder slips away. You have to protect the wonder.

That's how it works. Got to protect the wonder. Well, Danny, keep us updated on your lucid dreaming goal here. Because that sounds cool. That sounds perfect in a time like right now. It's mostly just about Sean McPhay's house. That's like most of the guys. Like there's a dog and I'm teaching it with its snout is a really weird dream.

Hey guys, it's Liz Kelly. After the show, be sure to check out another sports podcast on Spotify. Here's a quick trailer. In Formula One, the race is on. Late breaking is wheel to wheel! That's what I live for, dude. Get to the heart of the action with F1 Paddock Pass on Spotify. I'm Will Buxton.

Join me and the fastest drivers in the world at every Grand Prix. You dream about being in F1 is unbelievable. Floor the pedal, and it's a great feeling. From previews on Thursdays to qualifying on Saturdays and a race recap on Sundays, we've got F1 weekends covered. Listen to F1 Paddock Pass for free, exclusively on Spotify. DK, we're now under your jurisdiction for Dynasty drafts. Yes.

Love Dynasty. Let's explain Dynasty for a second. It's like you do one draft and then you keep all of those players forever. It's like a real football. And then for the only draft you do in the future are you draft the rookies after they get drafted in the real NFL draft. But you keep your team. If you're not doing Dynasty Football, Dynasty Fantasy Football,

I highly recommend it. It is really, really fun. It's a totally sort of different take on, how to build teams and how to kind of go about drafting and rostering all these players. You have a startup draft, which means, you know, depending on how many roster spots you have, let's say you have 30 roster spots on your dynasty team, you go through and play and do all 30 rounds. You can trade future rookie draft picks. So you get like a first round, second round, third round, fourth round pick of the next two seasons.

You can use those as trade chips to move up and down in your dynasty draft. in your startup draft. So it's just really, really fun. And the format that I've been playing is Super Flex. So quarterbacks become extremely, extremely important, you know, over the long term. And Superflex means that a flex spot, which is typically a running back, tight end, or receiver, you can have one of them start there. Now you could start a quarterback if you want. Yeah.

So everybody starts two quarterbacks. It's optimal to start two quarterbacks because they score, you know, more points than typically than other positions. with Dynasty, I think it's very important, especially if you're new to Dynasty and you don't have a solid grasp of like the value of players to go in and definitely print out

and have with you like an ADP, Dynasty draft ADP. Dynasty League football has those updated. They do mock drafts all the time. That's kind of like my go-to. And I think it's just super, super helpful because then it kind of gives you the quote, like market value of certain players.

based on every, I guess, the consensus thought of how valuable these guys are going to be over the next five years or whatever. So it's really, really fun. So let me ask you a question, D.K., because I have never done a Dynasty League. So the idea would be that younger players are more valuable because they're going to be in the league longer, right? So give me right now who, like, the top five picks are in Dynasty. So should I say, should I do Superflex? Because I think Superflex is probably the most popular version of Dynasty. Whatever's the most popular.

So that's where you can now start two quarterbacks. So I imagine quarterbacks will go quick. So I'm looking at Dynasty League football. There's Super Flex ADP right now. The top five guys, McCaffrey, Mahomes, Barclay, and Lamar Jackson. Okay, so everyone's under 26. Yeah, and to round it out, it's Michael Thomas, Zeke, Alvin Camara, Dak Prescott, Dishon Watson, and Kyler Murray at number 10.

Kyler's been a big, big riser in Dynasty just because people think he's going to be so, so valuable with all that rushing upside. I think my strategy might be just thinking about it that people go too hard on the young thing because they want to be good for a long time and no one wants to win now. Does anyone take the strategy of drafting guys who will just be good for the next two or three years and trying to get a couple of rings before you get older? Yeah, absolutely. There's absolutely multiple sort of schools of thoughts or strategies that you can take. A lot of people, you know, will trade their next couple years draft picks, their rookie draft picks to move. up in these startup drafts and get guys,

take the guys that are falling because they're a little bit older. Like, for instance, like Adam Thielen falls in dynasty drafts because he's, like, going to turn 30 and he's been injured. And people, it's just can't count on him being around for multiple years. Julio Jones falls in a lot of drafts because he's getting up there. And so you can absolutely take the strategy where you want to win the first couple of seasons and then you can completely rebuild. And that will take you a few years.

The fun thing about Dynasty is legitimately you can tank for a couple of seasons and be last place. Fun is an interesting word for that. I don't know if I'd want to just suck for three years in fantasy football. But yeah. No, it's great because when your team sucks, it's like you pretend it's on purpose. That's the brilliance of it. If your team sucks in regular, like regular fantasy league, you can be like, yeah, my team sucks. But in Dynasty, like, yeah, no, I got a plan.

Yeah. Well, it's actually not. I mean, it's definitely not pretending with some team. I took over a orphan team. So in other words, I didn't do the startup draft. This league had been running for like... That's what they're called orphan teams?

Yeah. That's dark. Jeez. It's dark. Yeah. Anyhow. And I had looked at this league and the team that I inherited will say instead of took over or whatever is it was the champion like three or four years before

that. There was like Marshawn Lynch, Jordie Nelson, Tom Brady, like all these people that were, either retiring or basically done. And so I thought it was actually really fun because then you sort of have to figure out how to extract draft picks from these aging players. You're Sam Hinky. Time it correctly.

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. It's just another really, really fun way to do. I absolutely love Dynasty. Dynasty is my favorite format, honestly. It's just so much fun.

And being able to like, it fits like my personality because I do draft stuff. so I really enjoy loading up on young players who I think are going to be the next Michael Thomas or whatever, you know, and then like investing in those guys and it's just really fun. If you have a longstanding good fantasy football group, like group of people that you're friendly with

and like it's a really good group, I highly recommend talking about making it a dynasty league because it is another dimension of fun. It's really fun to have like a good league become a dynasty league. Is a dynasty draft always snake or is there sometimes auction dynasties? Um, there's no rules. Generally speaking, it's, like, Survivor.

Generally speaking, it's a snake draft, but I'm actually about to start and 20, it's a 28 roster spot team and we're going to do an auction. I don't, it's going to be fucking chaos. I don't know how it's going to work. I've never heard of people doing auction for a startup dynasty league, but I'm sure it happens. But, um, yeah, it's going to be interesting. I don't know how, I don't think anyone really knows how to value anybody. So that's kind of like, that's the fun part of like the wild west.

because the reality is it's hard enough to project people into one football season. The idea of projecting football players three years out when the average career is under three years is just absolutely like it's wilderness. You do whatever you want. It's great. So what about this year, D.K., what's your strategy? Again, it really depends on the league you're in. If you're in Superflex, one popular thing to do in Dynasty is to have Tideend premium scoring.

So 1.5 PPR for Tidens. It makes tight ends more important. I hate that so much. I hate that so much. It is so unearned. Well, regardless of Danny Highlands, I have his personal feelings towards it. Who are the rookies you like for this to like perform this year though?

Who do you think that people like immediately can like will be? I'm guessing. Do you draft rookie running backs before or Ricky wide receivers or how's that work? Yeah, because there's so few of them. It's it's one of those things. Like in this year's drafts and this year's rookie drafts, guys like Clyde Edwards Lair was probably the top pick in most drafts. In Superflex you get a couple of quarterbacks going really early on.

But like C.D. Lamb and Jerry Judy were going like in the 7, 8, 9, 10 spot. So it was like very, very interesting. You know, you get like camakers, J.K. Dobbins, obviously Jonathan Taylor and Clyde Edwards-Helair, going so early. People are definitely loading up on those guys that they think could be like the next, you know, Christian McCaffrey, the next Saquine Barclay. I would be the Bill O'Brien. I would just give away all my picks and get like David Johnson. Some people do that, you know. The other thing is like from a monetary point of view, if you actually care about that, if you win one season.

then you pay for your buy-in for the next five or six years or whatever. I would try and win year one. Yeah. Because then you can just play for free, but then you have to rebuild after like three seasons. Yeah. Yeah, that's what happened to me in my dynasty league. If you're a real dick, you win for a couple of years and then just quit the league and give... That's the move.

And then, yeah, and then make your team an orphan. Don't do that. Yeah, don't abandon your team. The last thing I want to talk about is just two quarterback leagues because you mentioned Superflex, which is really just dynasty leagues or two quarterback leagues. Two quarterback leagues are better. This is how fantasy football

should be now. Two quarterbacks. Like there's so many quarterbacks. I think every league should be two quarterback league. No. I could. Well, actually, honestly,

I don't care about talking about the rent. Why no? It's so much better. Because it's my old curmudgeoned, antiquated views on the way it was is always the way it should be. Okay, yeah.

I like my fantasy football roster to mimic a real team's roster. I don't know why, but I like where one quarterback has three receivers and two many wards in a tight end. I think that is stupid. Well, here's why. Here's why. First of all, the thought of like, oh, I'll have a quarterback, but two running backs

and the same thing doesn't make sense. Like, because here's the problem with it. The idea of like, oh, it'll be like a real team. Doesn't make nearly as much sense to me as value. If you were starting from scratch, like, Here's the thing. If we have set up a fantasy football world where running backs are obviously 15 of the first 25 picks. And you don't even need a quarterback

to like the 25th pick. And honestly, you don't really need to pick quarterback to like the 100th. They don't matter. You're saying. If quarterbacks are not the most important position, something's wrong. It doesn't make sense. But in the Superflex Dynasty League, where D.K. just said, he listed, you know the top five guys are in Dynasty? Mahomes, Lamar, Sequin Christian McCaffrey and like Michael Thomas. That makes sense. Those are the five best players in football.

Well, then make quarterbacks worth more. Honestly, you want my radical opinion? Passing touchdown should be the worst as rushing touchdowns and passing touchdowns should be 10 points. Just like rushing. Yards are yards, points are points. Quarterback and the people will be like, oh no, then quarterbacks would be the most important position.

Yeah, they're the most important position. If you wipe fantasy football from a collective memory and pitched the concept, nobody would be like, well, the quarterback shouldn't be important. it's just when they came up with the scoring system in like 1976 they were like well running obviously should be the most important thing I think we should change that that's all I'm saying do it to quarterback league for the love of God the second part that I hate I'm not always ranting about how I feel about things but this is important

PPR is ridiculous it should be point per first down if you catch a ball and you lose a yard you did not help and you should not be rewarded for the for the studio or for the audience out there you know what I wish there was a studio audience get out of there, whatever. You know what, fine. Everyone, you know what,

you guys are wrong. I'm sorry that it will take you time to realize that you shouldn't get participation trophies for catches. Give people points for what actually matters, which is first downs. You have the seriously the worst takes about. You want a 10-team league

with non-PBR. It's the worst. It's really simple. I'm down with like a first down, getting extra value, whatever, but you're telling me a catch for nine yards. He's just like, no, it doesn't matter that he caught it.

Here's my problem. You get the nine yards. Here's my problem. It's third and two. You get more points in PPR for catching a screen and losing two yards than you do for running for five and getting the first down.

I get it. What on earth is the justification for that? It makes no sense. I think a catch for nine yards versus if it's first in ten and you catch a nine-yard pass and you run a nine-yard run, I think the catch is harder to do.

Why? Because you have to catch the ball. The quarterback hands it to you. You get nine yards. You get nine yards. You're taking a hand off or catching a ball. Catching a ball is harder So can we at least agree that if you catch the ball

And don't gain any yards You shouldn't get a freaking point No You can catch a ball for a screen And lose a yard and you get nine-tenths of a point What the hell? I just don't care about that Oh my God, it's infuriated

You know what you get participation trophy Generation Millennials You're the one who thinks 10 person league 10 team league is the standard Like it's so dumb It is literally the standard on every side You know what No one does that

We're off the rails Okay Anything else you guys want to say about draft strategy other than make a two quarterback league? I was going to say, I wanted to add one, you know, we didn't get dive too deep into dynasties, but one thing to keep in mind is early on in your dynasty draft and your startup draft, those first few rounds of a startup dynasty draft are like gold. Each of those picks are like gold. So if you want to win now, you either, you know, use those picks or trade up potentially.

But if you're fine, building for the long run, if you want to accumulate a lot of, lot of picks, like by far the best way to build a team is to trade back early on in those in those first few rounds because those picks are like seriously worth a lot. You can get multiple first round future first round rookie picks for those. And so that would be take that thought into your draft, kind of have a vision of how you want to do it either, you know, win now or build for the long term because you can get a ton of rookie draft picks for those early round picks. And you can, I mean, you don't even have to trade them. You just move back.

And two really good nuggets for Dynasty is just generally when you're making a trade is, A, will this player be more or less valuable next year? And B, people are more willing to give up draft picks before the season and they're more willing to give up players before the rookie draft. So trade for picks in the summer and the fall and trade for players in the winter and the spring. Cheat code. Okay.

Sean McVeigh's dog is overrated. Dude, the dog is in pain. Like, the dog is in pain. Please stop doing that trick, Sean McVeigh. Clearly, it's just trying to get your love, but it's not healthy. All right. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Craig.

Thank you to the people from Hard Knocks. And shout out to those porta potty people. My God. Thank you, everyone, for listening. We'll see you guys on Wednesday.