The Ringer NFL Show - Waiver Wire Pickups for Week 15, the Great Toney Debate Part 2, and Producer Kai Tries a Kiwi

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

SHOWDOWN TIME! Must-add players at each position ahead of NFL Week 15 (2:47). Later, producer Kai eats a kiwi for the first time in his life and the guys revisit the Kadarius Toney debacle (40:37). Check out The Ringer’s Fantasy Football Rankings for positional rankings, waiver wire pickups, and much more! RB: Ty Chandler (Vikings), D’Onta Foreman (Bears), and Zamir White (Raiders) (3:53) WR: Noah Brown (Texans), Romeo Doubs (Packers), and Odell Beckham Jr. (Ravens) (14:44) TE: Isaiah Likely (Ravens), Davis Allen (Rams), and Tucker Kraft (Packers) (25:50) QB: Matthew Stafford (Rams), Jake Browning (Bengals), and Desmond Ridder (Falcons) (34:10) D/ST: Atlanta Falcons, Philadelphia Eagles, Los Angeles Rams, and Chicago Bears (39:21) Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens and Jack Sanders Producer: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Joanna Robinson. Join us every week on the Prestige TV podcast feed is your favorite ringer hosts like Bill Simmons, Van Lathen, Mallory Rubin, Sean Fantasy, Chris Ryan, Julia Limon, and many more, cover the latest episodes of your favorite TV obsessions. From boardrooms to throne rooms to courtside

and through the mushroom apocalypse, we'll be here throughout the week breaking it all down. Subscribe to the Prestige TV podcast feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fantasy football show. My name is Danny Hyphen tonight. I'm joined by Danny Kelly, Great Worldback. And it is week 15, baby.

Fantasy playoffs. Wow. Waivers. DK, how many of your 22 leagues did you make the playoffs in? Most of them. Nice. The majority. Wow, impressive.

I did count lately, but yeah. I'm going to the playoffs in like, I think probably 80, 90% of ones. Wow. There's a few that I'm like purposely rebuilding with like multiple first round picks next year. That's dynasty, of course. Let's dig into that. That's what we're doing today. We're going to talk about DK's dynasty teams.

Yeah, should we just like detail each one? my rosters and stuff. Yeah. It's going to be power out this week. We're going to just rank them all. So we're going to go through waivers and also just there were a bunch of injuries. And oh, yeah, we're going to get some chips. Also reminder, we got the NFL draft show with Solek.

We're going to do that on Wednesday. Hell yeah. And also just a base reminder. There are games on Saturday now, which is annoying. Like, you've got to set your line up on Saturdays now. I hate it. You've got to set your line on Christmas and Christmas Eve and the Christmas Eve. Like all like it's now.

like you have to check your lineups on Thursdays and Sundays and Saturdays and Mondays. For Christmas week, are there are their game Saturday, Sunday, Monday? Yeah, I think so. Oh my God. Yeah, so just keep in mind like, as much as we're like, we hate fantasy, like we got an email from someone who had a 99%

probability, I don't know to ESPN they gave you the number. 99% probability and his team got like 40 points and just going to miss it. And it's annoying is we hate fantasy. The only thing worse is when you make the playoffs and then you lose because you didn't sit your lineup on a goddamn Saturday. So just like a PSA for that. what are those games? Vikings, Bengals, Steelers, Colts, and Broncos

Lions, holy shit, those games suck. At least there's no lies. Broncos Lines is okay. Yeah, Broncos Lines is okay. It's just the Broncos lines, the two teams locked into like mid-quarterbacks and huge contracts that they don't really want anymore. But whatever. We're going to go through waivers and at the end, we're going to address what people

are really here for, which is a continuation of the Cadarist Tony saga of 20203. I don't know if they're here for that. I feel like based on my Twitter mentions, people are ready to fucking leave the pod. give up on us forever because of this conversation. Again, going to go through position by position. You're going to give our must-ad players for week 15.

And again, here's how this works. We're each going to do a trivia question. Before the position to determine waiver order, because that's how we should have been doing this the whole time. I promise you'll figure it out as we go along. It's not that complicated. And also at the end, Kai is going to pick which one of us has the players who score the most points this week.

And if he's wrong, they're making me to food. And he was wrong two weeks ago. And then we just rescheduled it last week. So Kai is going to eat a kiwi for the first time ever. Wow, that's good actually. We had discussed that. That was good. A Kaiwi, it sounds weird to say at the end of this episode.

It's like how you used to say Kauai. Yeah, actually, yeah, that is. I had never seen it spoken. I'd only seen it written. I don't know. Sonny. Yeah, Sonny. I don't know, man.

We're just talking about that. Instead of Karnias. Let's talk about Mbop and teenagers. You know what? I changed the way Craig said. mbop, which is to me a win. You used to say mbop. Now I got him to say Mbop.

I'm pretty sure I just said Mbop, but. Sani. Okay. So trivia, first up, we still haven't figured this out. This one's from Pete. So is it the Pete running back showdown time? You let me handle this, right? Okay.

All right. Okay. You said Pete, Big Pete. I said Sonny. Big Pete. It is Big Pete's running back showdown time. That's not bad, right? That was great.

in big. Jacked up now. All right, this is huge. By the way, I'm on a 6-0 streak right here for trivia, so I'm going to keep that alive. For the 43, we talked about the 43 Lions' Giants game that was a tie.

Pete E. Millson, quarterback Frankie Sinkwich. Frankie. We talked about on the Sunday show. Franklin Sinkwich. Yeah, he was in that 1943 game. Frankie Sinks won the 1942 Heisman Trophy for the University of Georgia. Go dogs.

Played four seasons in the NFL. Started 16 games, perioded another 19 games. How many passing yards did Frankie Sinkwich accumulate in the NFL? 16 starts. He started 16 games in the NFL as a quarterback. And he also had 19 other appearances as well. Okay. Which I don't know if they're kneel downs or what.

16 games. All right. You guys ready? Yeah. All right. Three, two, one. $7.20. You said $7.20?

Yeah. I said $800. I said $800. Oh. Fucking Craig. The answer is 1913. Wow. Craig got last.

Thank God. Damn it. He's an absolute gun slinger. So Frankie Sinks. Also, I have an important update. Regular Brock Purdy out there. So he's actually Frankie Sinkwich Jr. And I have a huge news.

Frankie Sinkwitch the 4th played at Georgia, like on the 2017 team. He just graduated. Come on Georgia. Frankie Sinkwitch the 4th. So it means he's what, 23? I'm like, dude, we could totally find this guy on LinkedIn. Frankie Sinkwitch the 4th. So this is great.

grandson? We should get Frankie Sinks on the show. Yeah, we should just all the... I realize that Cloy's Box, like there's going to be like Cloy's Box the 5th somewhere. We can get Frankie Sinks.

We could get the whole 1943 reunion team. Frankie Sinks. Frankie Sinks is like straight out of Goodfellas. Yeah, seriously. Frankie Sinks. Frankie Sinks because he kills people with sinks. We got Teddy no-nows.

We got Frankie Sinks. He crushed a man with a sink. All right, I have the first one. I'm going to take Tad Shailner, the running back from the Vikings because it's a really weird week and I don't know what's going on. and it's a little, what's the word,

disgusting to take a team that just played the worst football game I've ever seen for Vikings Raiders. But Alex Madison has an ankle injury. I feel somewhat reasonably confident maybe that Alex Madison won't play and I just think Ty Chander's the best other running back they have and I think he's the receiving guy.

And also I think the important part I want to get across with Todd Chandler is he hasn't been great. He's been solid. But I think Josh Dobbs, I don't think he's going to play. I think Nick Mulan's going to be the guy. Josh Dobbs, what was fun and also then, terrible about him was the crazy scrambling to keep a play alive. I just think

Nick Mullen's going to check the ball down and Ty Chandler's going to have like five catches and it'll be totally serviceable. So I'm going to take that Chandler. This is going to be interesting actually with who is starting for the Vikings because yeah, is he like is Dobbs bench forever? Are they going to go back to him? They did trade for him. So we'll see. Yeah, I don't know.

But if Nick Mullins the guy, I just think Ty Chandler will literally get twice as many catches. And so it's not sexy. I'm not going to fight. If anyone wants anything different, I just think Ty Chandler's fine. And I'll take fine. And he's going to play. He would have been my choice too, I think. Man, the second choice is

tough out here. I think there are a lot of options, but they're all, they're not awful. None of them are inspired. I don't think there's a clear where, I think there's just a bunch of C-minuses on this board. Yes. It's a good way to put it. Shoot. Let's see. I think I'm going to go, I think I'm going to go with

Deontay Foreman. I don't know. There's like, again, there's like five or six guys here. But the post by bump for Roshan Johnson did not really happen. For Chicago. Right. Deontay Foreman came back from injury and he was basically like their guy. And he's been good. And he's like, he breaks a lot of tackles as far as I could tell.

He played well. And I don't know if the Roshan Johnson thing is going to actually happen now. So I think I'm going to go with Foreman, even though it's like there's probably five guys here on the same tier that I feel like could be plugged into your lineup. And clear Herbert just is not playing for the Bears. Like it's, you know, you're still dealing with Justin Fields. stealing some carries, but Deonte Foreman is the running back for the Bears, so it's not great. And that Bears' office has been better than I thought they'd be. So basically, here's the snap counts from this last week. Deonté Foreman, 56%. Rocheon Johnson, 27%, Culloughbert, 16%. Not great that it's like a three person rotation, but clearly Foreman is the lead guy based on what we saw last week. 11 carries, 50 yards. There's honestly three guys in between who I all think are somewhat

serviceable. I'm thinking about Clyde on the Chiefs, because Isaiah, Apacheco has shoulder injury. Not sure if he's in a play or not. And Edwards-Hillair is the early-down guy. He's splitting with McKinnon. They're playing at New England. I'm debating Zemir White on the Raiders. Josh Jacobs hurt his knee.

And this game is Thursday night versus the charges in Vegas. I kind of doubt Josh Jacobs is going to play. And then also Antonio Gibson. We don't know about Brian Robinson. I don't think I'm going to go with Antonio Gibson because Brian Robinson had a buy to heal his ankle. We haven't heard much about him yet. So I'm going to stay away from Antonio Gibson just to be safe here.

I think I'm going to go with Zemir White. I know, again, Hyattvitz and I are picking the two teams that just scored practically zero points for 59 minutes. You know why, Craig? It's because we're pros. We're professionals.

Other than amateurs, like teams that score points. I like teams can't get a touchdown if they literally had to try. Yeah, look, at least, you know, the charges are a horrific run defense. An Easton Stick is most likely going to be starting this game. This is going to be Easton Stick versus Aden O'Connell.

So if there's any game, the Raiders have a chance of actually having a positive game script in, it's this game. And I think Zemir Y, they have Amir Abdullah, who's kind of like their Jerich McKinnon. But yeah, I'm going to go to Zemir. So this is very important caveat to what Craig's saying, which is we're recording this on Monday afternoon. And right now, we kind of are in no man's land where we know that Josh Jacobs is injured. And we also know that Isaiah Pacheco missed Sunday.

But we don't actually have an update on like Josh Jacobs coming back, Brian Robinson for the commanders. We know he was heard, but they were on by. So like, please factor in what we're saying with whatever information you can find by Tuesday night when you put these wave. in on Brian Robinson updates, Isaiah Pacheco updates, and Josh Jacobs updates. But I agree with Craig on the Jacobs thing where Thursday night, probably not going to play him. Here's my question for you too, and I're just going to be totally open book on this. I have no thoughts on Samir White. This guy never plays.

Like, he's never had more than four carries in a game. I don't think he said 30 yards in a game. And my only thought in Samir White is I don't know what to make of him, but I think it's weird that talented backups, even like with a dominant, ball dominant running back, like a McCaffrey, like an Austin Eccler, or Sequin, like, when you have a good backup, they do get, like, some touches by accident. Like Josh Jacobs showed up to Camp Fat

and they still just gave him 100% of the work? Literally, yes. And I think that sometimes you have to look at the Susan Sontai thing, like what's out of the frame. And I'm like, the coaches see Zemir White every day and they don't even want to get a look at him. Like, you know what I mean? So I kind of just don't know what's, like,

is Amir Abdullah just better than Samir White? And that's the thing. I don't, in the absence of knowing about Josh Jacobs, I could be totally wrong here and Samir White could be the ad of the year like that's on the table that Zemir White just is like a top five running back for the fantasy playoffs and I'm missing the boat

and maybe I'm an idiotic. But a flip side is what if he sucks? I don't know. Yeah, it's like at the end of the day for me the tiebreaker is like yes he could get the volume and he could be the starter but there's a lot of variables here and this is a bad offense that just scored zero points.

Off the buy. Maybe I'm overrating it, but I think scoring zero points off a by is like, it's like the Josh Dobbs thing. If you get more time to yourself and you're worse. It's so bad. They're not off a buy. They just played. What are you talking about?

But the game that the Raiders played before that was like they came off a by and got shut out. Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry. I wasn't clear. They got shut out off a by which is wild to me. I would personally rather take my chances with, do we mention Keating Mitchell yet for the Ravens? He's still out there?

He's, again, this is another guy that's in like a three-person rotation, so it's kind of tough. It just feels impossible for him to get more than 10 carries in a game. I know. Well, he's 180 pounds, so, yeah. Well, I will say, I know Craig mentioned it, but no one's picked him. And are we making a mistake not just taking Clyde Edwards or layer here? Maybe it doesn't matter because I feel like he's probably been added, but I-

Pacheco, I kind of think is going to play. But if I, if I do all these guys starters were out, I would probably go with Antonio Gibson or Clyde. I'm just picking Zamir because I feel the most confident that Josh Jacobs isn't going to play Thursday. Yes, I think you're totally right about that. And I also think Clyde kind of reminds me of Zemir, except we've seen Clyde play where the Chiefs have just no interest in watching Clyde Edwards and Lairn play football. And I will say, I think that he, so what, he had like 13 touches for 68 yards this week, Clyde did.

I think you'll get the ball more, actually, if the Chiefs win, but they were losing the whole time and they play McKinnon when they're down. But you can play any of these guys. I think that's the good news is if you're super desperate, like Deonté Foreman, Zemir White, even Abdullah for the Raiders, Clyde, Derek McKinnon, Keith Mitchell, Deontay Foreman, touch. I actually think all of these guys, if you're desperate, if you had, like, Ramandre Stevenson, if you had Jacobs, you can throw these guys in and hope. Oh, the other guy want to mention real quick, Chase Brown for the Bengals. Yeah. Who he's not getting a ton of carries, but man, this guy has some frickin' juice. This guy's fast.

He only catches 30-yard screens. It's only does. He doesn't do anything except take a ball and run 30 yards untouched. I think he's more of a grab him and put him on the end of your roster type guy for the playoffs because if Joe Mixing goes down, obviously he's going to have a match. massive role, or at least I would assume he'd have a massive role. And he's, he's shown some some real talent out there. But for now, I probably wouldn't play him kind of deal just because it's still going to be the mixing show probably going forward. And, you know, we can see this guy's role expand, but for now, he's more of a stash. Can I make a suggestion of people if

you are not like emotionally attached to your kicker? Like, I know Danny Chow here at the ringer has Justin Tucker every year takes him of the ninth round. But like, if you're not emotionally attached to your kicker, don't think they're that good. And you don't have a bench spot. Just cut your kicker and add one of these guys and just see how the injury stuff plays out. Like add, if you're still there, add Clyde, see if Pacheco. We're more likely like add Zemir, if you can, see if Jacobs plays or like Tide Chia on there, Madison, Gibson for Robinson. Like, if you're not certainly with the injury stuff, like that's just kind of an easy way to postpone the decision. And honestly, you can also kind of just cut them on Saturday and then no one can add them for Sunday, which is kind of Bush League.

But, you know, just a little, little blocker. Okay. Just throwing it out there. It's classic height. Well, you know what? Pirate. Does whatever it takes to win. Wide receiver. This one's from George.

George. It is Big Georgie's wide receiver. Showdown time. What is the average amount of urine in gallons that an adult male produces each day? This feels topical.

This is in our investor relations material. This is cool because at the gentleman's piss club, we're going to have a Tuesday night trivia and all trivia will be P related. single week. So this is important. And it's going to be, especially about the 22 different types of urine that can be registered in a medical

software. Yeah, it's going to be called potty mouth trivia night. Wow, that's really good. Just giving that away for free? Yeah, I am. Wow. I'm trying to attract investors here with ideas.

How much urine and gallons is produced daily? Hmm. I have to admit something to you guys. Okay. The original question was in leaders. Okay. And I thought that that was going to be ridiculous if we just had to do the metric system. So then I...

Take a liter cola. Converted how much... I made my guess and then I did the math and converted it. And I'm trying to... I'm just going to make the suggestion that you are allowed to do... I would recommend decimals because a gallon is larger than a liter. Okay. So you're saying we should guess below one gallons.

I'm saying don't guess like 3.0 gallons. Wait, don't do that? Well, I guess... So he's saying don't guess three gallons. Use a decimal. Yeah. Okay. All right.

You ready? Sure. Three, two, one. One and a half. One point six. God. I guess, well,

I guess I was trying to warn you. I guess two and it was super wrong. I was what I was trying to say. Okay. I said what's there is a 0.37 gallons. Is it really that low? That's not very many. It's not.

It's not. I'm thinking of like a jug of milk. I'm thinking of like a jug of milk. I try to know how to do leaders. Brady's pissing full of like eight gallons a day. I should have done leaders because I was like, do people want to hear us trying to convert leaders to gallons? Honestly, probably, yeah.

So, who I can drink more water, guys. Everyone drinks more water. Wow, that's crazy to me. Like, if you think of a gallon of milk, you're only filling up a third of that thing a day? Should we, how much water should we have at this bar? Tons, tons of water. It's good for, if it's good for you,

it's good for hydrating you while drinking. I want, we're going to have free. water jugs. You know what I think is a big issue in bars is when you want to water at a bar, you have to just go up to the same bartender who's making everybody drinks. He is not incentivized to give you water because he's busy.

There should always be water jugs on the side. They have them. Well, not every bar in America does not have those. I'm confident. Well, L.A., you're running out of water, but here in the East Coast. Sure. But at our bar, the gentleman's piss club,

there will be water jugs all over the place. We don't, yeah. At our bar, comma, the gentleman's piss club. All right. Do I win? No, I lost. No, Craig won. Right. I came in last. Oh, God. Kind of a lot of options here. I'm between Noah Brown and Romeo Dobbs. Nico Collins is out with a calf injury. I think the calf is the scariest soft tissue injury, in my opinion. And just lingers and lingers and lingers. Jolten Schultz out of the hamstring.

Take down as a broken leg. It's like really Noah Brown's team now. I mean, like, there's not much house going on. There's, you know, our boy Bobby Trees, John Mechie. I'm going to go with Noah Brown. I'm banking on the fact that the concussion protocol has now changed in the NFL.

Like since like week eight, it used to be the start of the season it was like, concussion guarantee you miss a week. And then suddenly Brock Purdy got a concussion. He played six days later. And then since then it feels like a concussion no longer requires you to miss a week.

So I'm assuming C.J. Stratt will be back. And they're playing Tennessee. Pretty just heals, man. Purdy just heals, man. Pretty heals everyone else too. I'm going to go with Noah Brown. That's a good one. I had a tough time deciding on what to do with No Brown because he's got, I think,

seven targets with no catches in the last two games. Yeah. So that's not great. Yeah, but last week, Stroud left the game halfway through and there was 40-mile-hour wins. That was the most like, that was most Midwest-ass origin DK DNA right there. Just like, man, yeah, no catches last two weeks. That was hard. It's not like the most confidence-inducing thing I've ever heard in my life.

TK is like very supportive but that was like as cutting as we'll get. Oh shit. So let's see. I got so you're taking no bro. I think that's No, I think it's smart. I think it's smart because like you have to throw last week out like the jets in the rain with the 30 miles an hour and then everyone get hurt at half time. But I hear what you're saying. He wasn't my first pick but also it's not at all a bad pick. Yeah. I'm deciding between two guys here. I'm stalling because I'm trying to look up a number here. Just give it to me. I think I'm going to have the pick.

And then you don't have to go with Romeo Dobbs even though he hasn't played yet. this week. We're recording this Monday afternoon. He's playing Monday night. Hopefully he has a great game and doesn't get hurt. But yeah, I'm going to go with Dobbs. He's just been really solid and really consistent for the Packers. This is a good offense. Jordan Love is really on fire right now.

With Christian Watson, probably going to miss time. He's sort of the number one in this offense. So I'm going with Dobbs. Yeah, Packers playing the Bucks and the Bucks are kind of like the Titans where they're just like, yep, you can't run on us. You've got to throw. And Dobbs is, again, I just really

think Dobbs is like James Jones. He's just going to catch a touchdown. He gets a lot of end zone. Yeah, he gets a lot of end zone targets. I think he's a pretty good player. He's a little bit limited, but like he's just a playmaker for them. I will take O'Dell Beckham receiver for the Ravens. And to say the truth, this is the exact opposite order.

I would have taken O'Dell first, Dob second, and Noah Brown third. But I don't think there's a huge difference. I just want O'Dell one because I'm totally biased because I'm a Giants fan. And I still left Odell deep down. Number one. Number two, four catches, 10 targets, 97 yards in a touchdown last week for Odell. And if you've been watching the Ravens, Ravens. They just are

they're actually targeting it. Not more than that, 10 targets, but they're targeting him like, he is the number one, kind of like, especially in this postmark Andrews Ravens team. Isaiah likely's there at tight end. But Odell, I mean, we don't talk about this enough. Like Lamar kind of made it a condition of signing with the Ravens that they bring Odell in. And you forget that

until you watch the game and you're like, oh, when it matters, it's kind of like fucking Odell down there somewhere, like the very discount version of it. And I don't know. It's as Craig said Sunday. like he's kind of back. He's a little back. He's not back, but he's a little,

little back. It's wild looking at his, his numbers because, like, his target rate over the last few games is like 25, 16, 30, 8, 22. Postmark Andrews. But he's only playing like a third

to the half of the snaps. He's just every time he's in, Lamar's like, I got to throw it. He only comes on the field for the ball. Yes, he only comes on the field for the ball. Traditionally, I wouldn't recommend a guy who's playing like half at most of

the snaps for any given team, I probably would be like shy away from this. But his target rate is so strong. I don't think that the snaps really matter that much because Lamar clearly just trust him so much. And I like this one. I haven't had hot over taking Odell versus Dobbs. And also this is important to note that the Ravens play the Jaguars this week. And the Ravens, I mean, they did this just the Rams.

The Jaguars, the last two games made Jake Browning for the Bengals and Joe Flacco for the Browns look like Dan Marino and Joe Montana. So I think the Ravens are kind of going to carve the Jaguars. up. That's a good one. Going down the list of receivers, though, let's talk about a few others. I think Zay Jones, speaking of the Jags, is an interesting one. He had 14 targets in this last game. Only turned that into five catches for 29 yards. But Christian Kirk is out. I think he's on the IR, so he's out at least four weeks. He's probably not going to come back this season. DeMarcus Robinson for the Rams has kind of come on lately, and he's caught touchdowns in

last two games. Two-2 Atwell is in concussion protocol, so he may see his utilization go up a little bit here. And then Quentin Johnson for the Chargers. Our boy shouts Kai is he's building a little bit of momentum I think. He had three catches for 90-1. Yeah, him in the Eastern Stick. I heard of a great chemistry. You know why? The Chargers are now going to

be down so much, so early in games. The Quentin Johnson's going to be like the feed him. The Keenan Allen in the garbage time. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't feel great about starting Quentin Johnson, but he's out there. Parker Washington for the Jags too is another interesting one. And you mentioned Curtis Samuel for Washington?

No, but he's, yeah, he's another guy. He, the commander's passing game is something I'm trying to avoid mostly. But I think at least Curtis Samuel, it's a personal preference. Well, it's, it's like ironic because they have, I think, more pass attempts than any other team right now. So they're like airing it out, but they just throw it to eight different guys in every game. There's never any, like, there's never any way to predict who's going to get the most targets in any game. So I just like, they're a stay away from me. But Curtis Amel at least gets like manufactured touches, so that's good.

Curtis Samuel is my line. He's the last guy that I would be like, all right, fine, I'll play him. Everyone's worse than him. I'm like, I would rather just die. He's the guy I've had on my dynasty team for like seven years, and I've never played him once. Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? That was me with Elijah Moore this entire season. I'm not going to the entire season. I never played him. Yeah, the Curtis Samuel All-Stars. Also, wait, can I throw out one other guy that we should talk about? The receiver talented, Cadarius Tony, receiver for the chiefs.

I think, you know, you can take a flyer. How dare you, sir? I couldn't say with the straight face. You know what? You never know. I just love the stat. Craig said it last night, but it's so true. It's actually true.

The Chiefs would be 10 and 3 if Cadarious Tony just was hurt. He just wasn't on the team. He just had been 10 and 3. We probably have like an entirely different perspective on the Chiefs this year of Kadarish Tony. We'd be like, oh, the Chiefs is just once again really good, 10 and 3. Dude, when Tony had three drops in week one, and then one of those drops was Bob.

for a pick six in a game they lost by one point. And then the other drop, his other drop was like a, he was wide open down the down the field. It's like under two minutes left and he just dropped it. Do you guys think he's going to play for the rest of the season? Yeah, I think that the, I think that the chiefs, we'll get to this at the end, but they've just kind of doubled down on the whole like,

it was not our fault thing. And I think that there's a certain lack of introspection on, they're like, he's talented and we're good and we're just going to go and win the Super Bowl. I think that's kind of their vibe. The Chiefs, the Chiefs wide receiver situation is just atrocious. Can I just say, my prediction of the take purge is that the Chiefs are going to lose six or seven games and maybe miss the playoffs and not be that good. Dude, we didn't talk about this. The Chiefs had the largest divisional lead you can kind of have in the first two months.

And they're one game ahead of the Broncos right now. The Chiefs might not even win the AFC West. I mean, Denver was what, one in five and the Chiefs were like seven and seven. two? I mean, that's remarkable. And now the Broncos, I mean, they just did a six and one. Like the Broncos could totally win the division if they just keep winning, which is kind of, if you put money on that, I don't even know what the odds would have been.

Tight end, this is basically the Isaiah Lakely show. We know that Isaiah Lakeley's probably not available in your league, but he's definitely available in some of your league. So we decided to include it. Yeah, you got to pick him up. We're like emphatically endorsing Isaiah. He would be my first overall pick of all these players. Yeah. So we're going to put him in

this, and they're going to make this trivia thing a little more important. So this one's from Wes. Wesley? It is the big worst tight end showdown time. I love this question. Westro,

what is the maximum amount of cells you can have in a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet? Oh my God. Wow. I'm going to I'm going to grossly

overestimate this number. I quite literally have no fucking idea. Do you want to hear my logic or am I going to anchor you if I threw out numbers? Let's hear it. What do you got? My thinking was, and again, I don't know if this is the answer,

and totally will mess up the answer. My thinking was, I think the max you can go on a spreadsheet is 50,000. I think you can go 50,000 down and 50,000 up. I don't know if you. So I was just trying to, like, I was honestly just trying to in my head to do, like, can I square 50,000 in my head, which is, what is, I want to say, is a two and a half billion? No idea.

I do. I refuse to do math. 50,000 times 50,000? 2,500 million. Which, is that right? Yes. I just said my answer. I have a very principled outlook on doing math and I just don't do it.

Dude, you know what's so funny. When we first started doing this show, Deakin, I didn't even know each other that well. And we kind of had a meeting and just to get to each other. And one of the first things, Diki said, I was like, hey, like, things you want, anything you don't want to do an air, and Dicke was like, don't make me do math live. Really? I don't like doing math on air I can't do math live

I panic The premise of like The funny thing is I think I would be like considered good at math At least according to the academic My academic history Like I took AP calculus and all that shit But like I just refused to do it

Because I hate it Nice Also I panic I panic under the pressure And I guess way wrong DK here's footsteps Whenever he has to do math Go

Yeah I don't know man I'll pick a number. Yeah, sure. I literally said my number already, so. What did you say? Nothing. Three, two, one.

A hundred million. Okay. I said two and a half billion. I have a nice window here. I went low. You said a million? I said a million. I said a hundred million.

So I have a really big cushion here between a hundred million and two and a half billions. Do you know what I think that's actually really important? Is like, do you guys have any idea how. far apart our numbers are. We comprehensively far apart. Didn't we talk about... So much bigger than the difference

between zero and a million. We talked about that. A million to a billion is so much larger. Yeah. I think we had a whole segment on this the difference between a million and a billion. Didn't we?

It was like a million seconds is like a week and a half and then like a billion seconds is like 20 years. Yeah, exactly. We're not all close even though we're literal. The answer is, oh my God,

it's 17 billion. Holy moly. Yeah, that makes more sense. Oh, I was way wrong on both. You can have a million rows in 16,000 columns. That's too many. I feel like they should do less. Dude, wait.

Also, email us during your fantasy football at gmail.com. Because we're talking about we have lawyers, this is the show. We have doctors. Whoever you Excel people are, this is your moment. Consultants or whatever the hell all everyone doing. If you're like, all of Deloitte and McKinsey listeners. Damn right. If you think you're in the 1% of the 1% of Microsoft Excel people,

please let us know what freaking spreadsheets you're using we're like 50,000 is not enough Carl like 50,000 is not enough rose like what is it like area codes and like address like what is it like addresses like how is a hundred thousand

rows not enough? Damn it's how many billion? Let us know what that's for. 17 billion? A million rows 17 billion because it's a million rows is crazy. This might be the most far off I've ever been on anything.

Like numerically speaking. I mean, yeah. I think the funnest part was I pretty much just as far off as you were. I, we did what we never do, which is we spelled out the math ahead of time and then you just were at this.

We were, we were, I think we did have a discussion about how many light years something was away. So there's probably actually wiggle room in there. Literally.

No, actually, the furthest I've been off in an answer is how heavy is a cloud. Still the best question. What I say one pound? And it was a billion. yeah but Craig you're off you were off by like 17 billion

that was the best question oh I guess you're right damn never mind yeah but spiritually I was way spiritually yes much more incorrect literally not vibes wise you were you were off sides but the okay so I God damn it high I get I gotta say it like with wow sick yeah you guys enjoy whatever you're gonna take so Craig second

we got this is miserable you think I'm going to just remind people go get Isaiah likely at Tide End if you have a tight end just because he's so good that you don't want to play anyone in the playoffs if they need a tight end just don't let them have Isaiah likely I'm going to take DK's guy just because I want to see who D.K. has to pick I'm going to take Davis Allen on the rinker what the fuck stop are you sitting oh my God I got it I have like this big long running inside joke with Austin Gale about Davis Allen because we were talking like literally the weekend of the draft I was like

I like Davis Allen he's kind of good and and Austin was like, he sucks or something like that. So like every time I hear it the name Davis Allen, I'm like ball player. So week 15, people are going to make their fantasy playoffs. Is this just like a bit? I don't know if that's something you should really do in reality is start Davis Allen in your fantasy playoffs. Now that you said not to do it, I'm sure he's going to be top five tennis. I mean, look, who are you going up against here?

Kate Otten, Chigacan, Chigacanquo, Hunter Henry? Hunter Henry, I said for two weeks, like, at, like, at, Hunter Henry. Dek has shamed me out of it because Hunter Henry had five points across like a month and I was like all right, maybe I was wrong about it. And then as soon as they gave up on Hunter Henry. Yeah, he got he has zero points after I shamed you out of it by the way. So I

tell you. I wasn't blaming you. He had five points in a month. He's the definition of a broken clock. He's right twice a day and it's fine. Twice a year he'll have a couple touchdowns. Who are you actually going to take to you? Or you take your Davis Allen. What a forgettable name. DK, I'll give you Davis Allen.

No, no, no, no. You take him. You take him. I would say be careful. If Tyler Higby plays, don't play Davis-Salon. But otherwise, like, you know, why not? There was a game, I think, in the preseason or something where he had, like, freaking 10 catches or something. Okay, enough, Hunter. Enough Davis-Allen.

Anyways, I'm going to go with a shoot. Right. Let's spend more time talking about Hunter Henry or Chigacalcow. Craig mentioned him, K.D. And I think he's another guy runs a lot of routes. He's always playing. Those are two very baseline bars that he is passing. he's like the last guy at the bar he's there right he's yeah he's he's available yeah in a game where mike evans had one catch kate odd and had a resounding two he's there i think i'm gonna go with uh i'm

gonna go with tucker craft stick with my packer stack Tucker craft who has again not played so don't feel great about this but fuck it i'm gonna lose anyway he's another guy runs he's running a lot of routes and he's playing a lot of snaps on a good offense guy guy is definitely going with high it's his team today chanler odell and any team who got likely is is going to be the winner other tight ends i actually think you can stream hunter henry if you have to and also john henry they are playing the broncos who are the worst team in the league against tight ends we'll see if he can outscore the immortal davis allen but um i guess there's johnna smith and brevin jordan but at that point just pray um but again titan's fixed so it's okay my boy davis allen he just earns

targets, baby. He had eight catches in his preseason debut. Anytime he gets out on the field, he's just earning targets out there. Sure. That's all I'm saying. Quarterback, if you have to stream a quarterback, RIP to Justin Herbert. I think Matt Stafford is like incredible. And if you look at the games

that the Rams have had all the players, like Kyron Williams and Puka and Cooper Cup healthy, they're basically just top five offense. And if you watch Stafford play, he has legitimately been, I actually think Stafford would be in the MVP conversation if the Rams had had all their players healthy because he's so

freaking incredible this year but they've been so streaky because of their youth but also the Rams just went through this Baltimore Ravens Cleveland Brown's gauntlet where they played the two best defenses league back to back

and like Stafford did great and now that the Rams are playing Washington Washington's defense since they traded away Montes Sweat and Chase Young is abominable like their secondary is bad and they just got away

with having a good pass rush and now they don't have a pass rush and like I just think like I think Stafford's going to carve up Washington this week. It's the same thing I was saying with the Ravens where I think the Ravens are going to carve up the Jags. Like I like that actually all my players are from this group.

Like I just, it's hard to even describe like the level of defense Stafford carved up to now it's like one of the worst defenses in the league. I would not be shocked if Stafford's the top three quarterback this week. I actually think it's the most emphatic I felt about a quarterback stream all season. Love Stafford. What are you thinking about Jake Browning?

He's like the QB4 over the last two weeks. He's 50 points in its last Are we believing this shit? Are we in? Are we in? Like, AFC, Brock Purdy. Dude, this is whack-a-mole, right? This is, like, the moment you go for Jake Browning, you're just going to, like, get high to the face. Yeah, probably.

But also, maybe not. You know? Yeah, what if he's, what if he's incredibly? He's got two rushing touchdowns in the last two games. It's like, can you imagine if Joe Burrow? Like, I know this won't have. We should do a take Purge before the season ends. What if, what if Jake Browning is better than Burrow and Burroughs never is a starter again?

Jesus. You imagine if Browning never lost again? And we just Brock Purdy, Joe Burrow. I know that won't happen. If Jake Browning went undefeated from here on out and won the Super Bowl, and he's the MVP of the Super Bowl, he has 400 yards and four touchdowns. And it leaked out that Burrow wasn't happy. Yeah, is there like a conversation?

They got to trade Burrow at that point. Can you imagine? I know that wouldn't happen, but like, Craig, would you rather have Jake Browning or Kenny Pickett? Oh, Browning. On the Steelers. Jake Browning literally has the last two games for Jake Browning would be the best two games with Kenny Pickett's career by far.

It's just hard. We do this all the time with these backups. We did it with Josh Dobbs for like a month. The Linsanity thing. They turned back into pumpkins. No, but Dobbs is the parasite host body quantum leap guy. The problem is he's like a Mr. Meseek's.

He stayed too long and he started to... His host body has died. Like he needs to move on to another a live warm body. Right. Eventually's going to have to go back to the Browns to replace Flacco. It's just so hard.

I can't stress enough how awful the Steelers like offenses from a vibe's perspective and like an actual exes knows for sure. It's just like all a mess. You have no idea. It's like, it's like Jeff Gordon driving a shopping cart. Like, it's just not going to, it doesn't matter. Where did you pull that out of? It's like, we still have no idea. Do I, has he been good in the system? No, he's been pretty bad. But like, if he was on the Niners, would he be solid? Probably. Low key, everyone who listens to the show and also likes NASCAR is so insulted that you just

compare Jeff Gordon in the legend to Kenny Pickett. My point is is that if you put a talented player in a shitty system. Sometimes the system overwhelms the player to a point where it doesn't matter. I think that I actually am at the point where I think it's, I've come all the way back through it being complicated to it's actually very simple. Like Justin Herbert's not even good right now. You know what I mean? I'm just saying, but to me it's very simple. Either Kenny Pickett is awful or if Kenny Pickett's good, then Mike Tomlin needs to be blamed in some capacity for like this being like if Kenny Pickett's actually good and they fired Matt Canada, how can the Steelers be this bad?

Like something has to give here where, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's going to be a huge off season for Pittsburgh. I think it's, there's been a lot of conversation already about like, is Tomlin finally going to, you know, bring somebody else in, like bring a new hire in from the outside and actually change things up. Like, admit the team needs like an entire like overhaul. When in reality, oftentimes the Steelers usually just like hunker down,

hire from within, you know, do what they've always done. so it'll all come down to him. The loyalty cuts both ways. It's the reason they're so stable and also the reason that they're going to stick with Kenney Pickett probably sucks. Let's be honest. He's awful. He's awful.

He's probably better than Mitch Rubikisky, but I don't know what that's really saying. They're going to win the Super Bowl. The show is a wild card like the Giants did. Anyway, Jake Browning for the Bengals. Also, if you really have to, like Desmond Ritter for the Falcons, it's funny.

Craig's been bitching newest since August, that he's a super flex where his friend stuck him with Desmond Ritter as his second quarterback. And he's, I think he's like the worst quarterback in the NFL other than maybe Zach Wilson. And yet he always has rushing touchdowns. He does. And I think because he fumbles so much near the goal line,

the other teams always want him to have the ball in his hands instead of Bijan. But then he just scores. Desmond Ritter, you could do worse. Well, suck it to my friends in my league because I traded Seqon for Dak in that league just before Dak took off. Oh, yeah. Wow, I forgot we talked about that. Wow.

That was the best. Sequan for Dak and Javante Williams. What a fucking trade. Yeah, wow. Nice. Nice. All right. Fantasy defenses. I can run through these, but it's the thing.

we just talked about. The Falcons are facing the Panthers. The Panthers have actually gotten worse on offense. Bryce Young, they're just all-time low and the Saints' defense had a cichillion points against the Panthers. And it's the Falcons play the Falcons against the Panthers. Eagles defense, not great against the Cowboys, don't care. No offense, D.K., but Geno Smith, injured or Drew Locke healthy, not Dak Prescott and the Cowboys. Like the Eagles, or at the very least, pick up the Eagles because in week 16, if you win in week 15, the Eagles play in the Giants, Tommy DeVito, Tyrod, Taylor, whatever. The Eagles defense is going to be fine against the Giants. That is a real great play to get you to a championship.

And then again, the Rams versus Washington, the flips that I was saying, Aaron Donald will sack Sam Howell. Like he will. He will sack Sam Howell. And I just think the Rams D is a very good bet against Sam Howell. He's so sackable. Yeah, he's so sackable. And if you really have to, the Bears defense has been weirdly, really good.

And Joe Flacco thing is going to faceplant eventually. And I just think he's got two picks, pick sixes in him versus the Bears. I thought of a really bad pun when you said he's so sackable. Do it. Fucking say it, Craig. He's saxy. Oh, that's not even want to... It's so much more PC than when I thought you were going to say.

No, I wouldn't say it was an inappropriate pun, just a bad pun. Yeah. I'm not even going to say what I thought of. He's a saxy quarterback. All right. We can get the emails the second here, but I think we... Should we have the emails and then, or should we have Kai time? We should do...

Because Kai should come in, pick his team for this week, give a recap of last week, and then it's time to eat the kiwi. All right, yeah. All right, so Kai's here. He's got a kiwi. I do have a kiwi. And he's got a pre-cut, like a freaking... Pro. Like, Kai, so give us a rundown of how it went last week. Of course.

So last week, there's a lot of TBDs here, because all of you picked Monday night players. Yeah, but like, there's two Monday night games. Let's be real here. We really know how to put on a show. It's true. You guys know how to pod. Hyfitz is currently in third with Ty Chandler,

Michael Mayer, combining for 7.6 points with Jalen Hyatt TVD. So Masterclass on the way from Hyatt? Yeah. Don't know. We'll see. DKs at 2 with Keaton Mitchell, Elijah Moore plus a point combining for 13.4 points,

not a bad showing. And I got Chiggin' he's going to go for 20 plus tonight, I think. Craig is in first with Zeke, plus a point, Romeo Dobbs, TBD, and Isaiah Likeley. 41.3 points. 41.3 points with Dobbs. That might be like the all-time week of waivers this year.

I saw Zeke going off and I was like, man, what a day. And then Isaiah Likely caught that touchdown. I was like, oh, it's a great week. You lived to see another week. Yeah, seriously. I'm glad I came through for you, though, Kai. You know, it was almost, we were on the outs. We were.

We really rekindled. Totally redeemed yourself. Anyway, now eat the kiwi. We were all, yeah, that's, you're still the reason why I have to eat this today. That's fair. We're on thin ice, okay? We're getting better.

And then this week, real quick, before I do eat this kiwi. D.K., you have Deonté Foreman, Romeo Dobbs, Tucker Kraft. Craig, you have Zemir White, Noah Brown, Davis Allen, and hyphenzy of Ty Chandler, O'Dell Beckham Jr. Isaiah Likely. I'm going to go with Ravens Flock. I'm going to go with Highfitz

to really, I guess I'm betting on that offense. So, and Lamar, which isn't terrible bets. Likely is the safe bet. Yeah, I agree. I guess it's Kiwi time. Craig, do the thing. It is the Kai Grady Kiwi time.

I was not expecting that at all. Wow. Okay. You better play the gong for that. I will. Don't worry. So I don't know. Do you want me to like smell this first? Or what's the vibe with the Kiwi? Whatever you think works best in podcast format. Whatever you are comfortable with.

Describe what you're what you're doing, how you're, what it smells like. You've cut it into round slices. I did. I wasn't my best work, but I did it. Kai, well, can you tell me what your favorite fruits are before going in? I actually like, I enjoy some fruits. I like red apples. All right.

And green grapes, very specifically those two. variations. That's my favorite one of all the things. I don't like green apples and I don't like red grapes. I think that's the funniest one. I do agree though. Green apples and red apples taste very different. He's right. I just think it's really funny to make

him eat green apples and red grapes. My worst day. And then I actually like strawberries quite a bit. Always go for those. You know, I will say about this kiwi. I'm not like, this isn't as scary as last week. With mac and cheese. Right. Yeah.

This isn't like, and I've never tried a Kiwi in my entire life. Like, I have no idea what this is. If it's sweet, if it's tart, no, no clue. I got to, I got to fiss up. I've had Kiwis, but I don't think I've ever purchased a Kiwi. Like, Kai was like, I'm going to go buy a Kiwi. I'm like, I've never done that. They've just been presented to me.

What do they cost? $10? What's a single key? How much could a banana cost, Michael? $10? I genuinely have no idea. I came from far away. I don't know.

Do they grow Kiwiis in America probably California's great. Kiwis are one of my favorite fruits. A kiwi on a tart is fantastic. All right, let's have, let's do this. Smell it, Kai. So here it is. This is the Kiwi. You cut the skin off?

Yes, I cut the skin off. I do have another, you know, half Kiwi with the skin on this. We were told by, very, very angry emailers that the skin is just packed with nutrients. So just FYI. It's always sunny, riddled with toxins. Okay, I'm not going to delay this any further. I love this. This is so fun.

He's so much more into this one than Macon cheese. There's no dread. It's kind of, it's not bad. It tastes like a crunchy green grape. Okay. That's my comp. And you like green grapes, so this is a win. Yeah.

It's, yeah, it's a win for sure. It's much better than the mac and cheese, the craft mac and cheese. Hell yeah. I don't hate this. I'm not sure if I would ever like just eat a kiwi, but like, good. I'll say. Wow, what a dumb. You eat it as part of like a larger platter.

Some positive masculinity. If it was like something with strawberry, and apples and kiwis on it, you'd be like, great. Exactly. I think I might, you know, I might think about grabbing the kiwi. I'll consider it, for sure. You guys want a rating on this or where are we at now? Yeah, sure.

You want me another bite? Like, what is this? Because you give the mac and cheese a 2.1 or something. Yeah, that was a rough one. I'll give this like a 6.8. Oh, okay, fruit scale. Wow. Pretty cool.

That's good. I like it. I'd consider it a win for sure. Because I'm, I'm, this is a tangent. But like, when, you know, rating movies or whatever it is, It's like I'm in the camp of like a seven, a six is decent. Like, you know, people give things all nines and aids and all that stuff. So, six point eight.

So he's a tough grader. So I like this. I no longer feel like we're bullying Kai, which is a nice relief. Yeah. We had like, a couple of people were mad at us. They're like, you shouldn't make Kai eat mac and cheese. We're like, we promise we're not forcing him to. Like he is consenting to this.

We promise. I'm all in. One of a conversation with his girlfriend about this. I think we're like. Yeah, no. My family and friends are invested now. like this is a thing. They're huge fans of this process.

Thanks for putting me on to Kiwis, guys. Yeah, sure. I kind of want to get a Kiwi and eat. What a productive day. Yeah, all right. I'm just really, my shitty team's got to win this week. Deontze Form, Romeo Debs, Tucker Kraft. Look at that.

Yeah, got to beat him. It's a winner. All right, we'll see what else he's going to eat. I can't get to pick because he picked my team, but. Kai's going to stay on here, Kai? We get some emails. You want to stay on? No, no, no, it's all you guys from here.

He's like, I'm getting, I don't want to be involved with Danny and Craig's take from last night. Pultring. I honestly, I actually like admittedly haven't listened to the pod yet. So I don't know really what I'm behind. No wonder you're being so nice to us right now. You can just skip to the last, oh, I guess no, there's a specific portion in the middle. There's like a 20 minute argument.

I actually think it was the most intense argument we've ever had. No, you think? No, it was, I would say it's the most intense argument we've had where no one was actually upset. Right. Okay, yeah, sure. I would say it's the most like, it's the most intense argument where I don't actually feel anger towards It's no It's no plain wife.

First time you've been wrong. Okay, so Kaderis Toney and again, if you don't know, I do actually think it's worth listening to. But the Kaderas to, obviously, the Sunday afternoon, football, whatever. She spills into the game. We almost have not talked enough about the play itself. But Kelsey did this crazy lateral to Kineris Toney and he went and scored the touchdown. It would have been honestly one of the coolest.

I feel like lateral doesn't do justice. A lateral implies like you underhanded. That's a good point. He threw it across the field to Kaderie's Tony. We talked about this actually ironically on Friday about how it feels 53 yards long and the throw Kelsey through was almost as far as Mahomes's throw.

Like it was like 20 yards. And like a fucking tight spiral. He was getting hit as like he was taking a jump throw. It was beautiful. He got lit up. This is the tragedy of the whole damn thing. We're not talking about to play enough. They scored a touchdown.

Tony scored this game winning touchdown that would have been like to create. And then Tony was off sides. And we had a like a double digit minute long argument. about whether they should have called the flag. And we went to the polls, went to emails. And I will say I resoundingly won. Let me phrase it this way. I texted Craig this morning the giff of,

are we the baddies? There was that one election where I think like Reagan won every state but won. I think he won like every state but Minnesota because the Democrat was running in Minnesota. Or he was from Minnesota. But okay, here's, okay, it is a resounding victory for high fits. Well, no, I'm not going to gloat because I want to just start here by saying the poll was 80 to 20 that they should have thrown the flag. The email was awesome. It's not close. It's a fucking landslide.

As we speak, we are just getting email after email after email being like, Hyvitz is right. They're ridiculous. I will say this, though. I think that I, reading through the emails this morning, I think I felt very obvious to me that I had won the battle and I had already long ago lost the war. Because every title of the email was like, I'm, I finally agree with hyphen. I literally like, I'm going to just read you like, these are all real things. These are all opening lines to emails we got. Craig, did we blow it?

Did we blow it? Damn it. No, it's, I can't believe Highfits is the rational one in this argument. Another one is, ugh, Hifitz is right. Can't believe I have to agree with Hyphitz. Oh, no. The worst person you,

the worst person in the friend group just made a great point. Or the worst person you know just made a great point. I've never agreed with Hyphitz before, comma, but it's generally I don't agree with Hyphitz. And then another one that was like, I'm a simple guy. I pay my taxes. I love my family.

And more often than not, I don't agree with Danny Hyphins. And I was like, wow. And I realized, Craig, we flew too close to the sun. No, I have a rebuttal. Well, I realized what this game was for you guys, which was, do you know how like every year there's a great team that just,

like the bills inexplicably losing to the Urban Meyer Jaguars? And we all just agree like, yeah, you know what? Happens. And we just like, that's a burn the tape game. And I was like, I read these and I was like, I'm the Urban Meyer Jaguars. And this is the broken clock one, I get one argument right a year. And everyone just was like, well, that must have been a total aberration.

Well, look, you're handling this with with humility. like a gentleman. Grace and class. And I appreciate that. However, this is what I would like to, I will follow up with. I knew during the argument,

making the poll, I knew that in the court of public opinion, I was going to be wrong. I did not expect to win the poll by any means. And that's why this is a day. I knew I was like, I had the unpopular opinion.

I think DK knew as well. It's like, I admit that he was off sides. He was. That is what the ref should call. I'm just personally upset that like he has. had to call it. I'm like, this is stupid. But I knew that we were going to be incorrect. And it's,

that's why it's different. It's different than like the Mbop thing where Hivech, you genuinely felt. I was just like, I didn't know when I never heard of. Like teenagers was a bigger deal. And I'm like, look, I knew that everyone was going to disagree with us. Didn't you, Craig, you tell us a story once that you're in your, you're now best man at your wedding that when you met in college, you had this argument at Friday night, the lasted five hours. And then like weeks later, he told you that he knew he was wrong. It was about the word impotent. He said impotent, like drunkenly at midnight. And I was like impotent. He's like, you mean impotency? He's like, no, you can say it both ways. We argue for three hours. You can say it both ways. And then he woke up the next morning.

He was like, dude, the second you said impotent, I knew I was wrong. That's so funny. That's why men are the best. Of course. Of course I knew we were not going to win this case. I would say in our defense, I don't think any, I don't think Craig Rai argued that it was technically the correct call. I think our argument, and this is all I'm going to say about it because we're fighting the good fight. But this is the long, we're playing the long game here. My assertion is maybe I chose the wrong moment to like really dive into this is that there's too many fucking flags and I'm fucking sick of the refs throwing flags and ruining what could be great games.

I'm just sick of flags. This is like, to me this was like a minor technicality, not a big deal. I'm sick of flags. I'm sick of like every fifth play is like coming back because of some minor procedural bullshit thing. It reminded me of to play last year when, do you guys remember this? Terry McLaurin, like, didn't line up close enough to the line scrimmage. It was like a fucking game.

They scored a game-winning touchdown and it got called back because Terry McLaurin was not close enough to line scrimmage. I'm sick of this shit. It's stupid. Talk about winning the battle and losing the war. That's the reason the Giants got in the playoffs and then won the Vikings game extended Daniel Jones and are in their current predicament. I just like, dude, the procedural like penalties, I just like fucking don't give a shit. I want to read a few emails here. They got an email from Spencer that I actually thought was one of your burners because

basically summarized, we kept talking about it after the show ended. And Spencer emailed it. I felt like he was quoting what you guys said to me. But honestly, it was like what you guys thought, but I thought even like sharper, light sharper, but like to your soul is what you were trying to say. And Spencer, Spencer. Spence. Spence.

In theory, high fits is correct. It's a penalty, which I can't say that word, but it's a penalty. Irony. You don't know how the play's going to turn out when you throw the flag and the jobs to call the penalty, I get it, but the fact that it's Tony just makes it even more hilarious. But here's the thing. The rest fuck up all the time impacting the outcomes

of games. And this, all caps, this is the time you want to be a stickler. They should have called defensive pass interference to Darren Waller and the Giants' Bill's game. It got grabbed in the end zone against the bills. They didn't. Giants lost. Call the penalty. It's a clear penalty, but they let it slide. Active penalty, change the result of the game. And I would argue

that's a little more like Judge McCall versus objective. But Spencer goes on. D.K. and Craig are a thousand percent right. letter the law, it's a penalty, and you should call it. But screw that. There's no way dudes have only lined up offside 11 times this year. It's just only been called 11 times this year. And also they probably, Andy Reid calling the rest out for being like, you didn't tell me,

probably suggests that like they did go out of the procedure of it. And then he goes on, arguing in favor of this flag is like at a sleepover when you're a kid. Someone says, oh, today. And you're like, you mean yesterday? And like, you're right, but nobody likes you. Exactly. The guy who earnestly says, like, on December 30th, I'm not going to see you until next year.

And I was like, that's what I felt you were trying to say. I agree. Thank you, Spencer. That succinctly encapsulates what we were feeling. So I felt there were a lot of emails that were like, it was a flag. There was one email that I thought perfectly captured what I wish had been my follow-up question to you guys. I say this in 100% sincerity, I actually just want the answer.

Great. I hope I can have one for you. This is from Andrew. I genuinely just, this is actually a real question. Craig and D.K. said Tony should not have been called off sides. So, Dek and Craig, how far off sides is Tony allowed to line up? I don't know. Here's my answer.

This is not going to satisfy anyone. Far enough where we don't have to do. like a fucking Zabruder film like replay where everyone's like showing different angles of the fucking play and oh look at the line and then you start talking about how far back the tackle is from the line of scrimidt. Far enough to where my mother

would go, what's that guy doing? You ever really tried to do a flag in Madden on purpose to mess your friend up? I thought this was the perfect question. Ten feet. Ten feet. No, I'm kidding. Wait, what did Andy Reed say? Andy Reid was like it's an inch or two and he was like inch or two for being

illegal. Dude, Andy Reid obviously very unbiased this whole thing said that Tony was only off sides by like an intro two which was my assertion and obviously again he was off sides and again all of this is hurt by the fact that Mahomes is being a little bitch about it and shouldn't

have complained and them just being so upset in the media has been really annoying and I even think that the entire chief season and the Taylor Swift thing I think just people are kind of over the chiefs it's entitled it's entitled I don't hold you guys account of the Mahomes the Mahomes separately is being annoying about it Craig and I have been accused in on at least in the Twitter mentions of being like chiefs worshippers.

I wanted the bills to win the games. I don't give a fuck about the chiefs. We've been talking up the bills for the last month. Yeah, I was happy the bills won. I don't care. I don't love the chiefs. I wasn't arguing for the chiefs. I'm arguing against the refs.

I hate the reps. That's just to be clear, I don't want to see the refs. They should be neither seed nor heard. No one has an issue with the chief's thing. The issue is like being subjective. But here's the thing I thought it was so funny about this email was, well it's a vibes thing and I realize that the question literally was where do you draw the line

if the line is not the line well it'd be nice if there was an actual line that's true but there is an imaginary line there's a yardage marker right next to the ball you look at the ball the yardage marker it's a hash mark it's still fucking weird that the center walks up picks up the ball and just kind moves it a little bit this is the other thing though the blue line actually is that's like not the neutral zone that's the thing that's the line of scrimmage but like the the blue line, that's actually not, like, it's like, oh, well, his foot's on the line. That's not the neutral zone. The ball is the neutral zone.

It's like the blue is actually the left part, but like, it's twice as long as that line. It feels like he was literally three inches too far forward. And I'm like, that's stupid. I think, but no, but I guess the thing that I think is so funny, it's like, what's the line if that's not the line? Like, you have a side and like how, I just like this question, how far can you be?

Yeah, we got a lot of people that were like, oh, so you just want them to cheat. Like, no, I just don't want the fucking refs to, like, litigate every little tiny fucking infraction. I hear you on that? I just thought it was such a good question of like, okay, but how far can he stay? I understand. I understand that question. Intellectually, I totally get it.

Like, believe me, I'm not like advocating everyone should cheat all the time. I just don't think little infractions like this is fucking making the game any better. I think it being in the final two minutes of the game, I'm like, just fucking let the, let the boys play. Oh, I'm sorry. This is the most important thing, too. shout out Sam Monson and Pro Football Focus who brought up the best point of anyone has brought up on this, which is for all the emphasis

on Cadar's Tony, Joanne Taylor, the right tackle, also committed a flag on that. Like the thing that was a thing on like the first week, first game in the first year, where Juan Taylor was lining up so deep in his past set that it like wasn't a legal formation because that gives you the advantage of like,

you know, it's so hard to beat, get deep enough to beat a defensive end because they're so fast that you just start back and he just like was kind of cheating. he wasn't legal on that play. And it's great that they didn't call him for it. I know, but I'm like, they had two people. And that's funny to me is those are the two people who lost them the game in a week, like literally the first game of the year.

And like, I think that's to me, I don't care about the thing with you guys. But that's why I just can't handle Mahomes complaining about this is that these guys have been like doing issues, mental mistakes for you, since literally the first game of the season. Well, and again, like everyone's pointing out the Super Bowl call. It's like, oh, wow, Mahomes doesn't like it when it goes against him, which I think it's, kind of, it's fair. Like Mahomes and the Chiefs, this is not a good look

for them to be complaining about this. No, it's, he's had a horse, and we didn't get to this, but Mahomes has had the most goddamn charmed career since Tom Brady. Like, he's been in the NFL

for 25 months, functionally, like 25 months of games. 23 of them have been incredible. He had one bad month in 2021 with the two high stuff. And then this is the second bad month of Mahomes' career.

And he's like, let us play, man. I'm like, dude, you have no idea what it's like out here. Last week, when they lost on a, play where it was like very obvious past interference in the end zone.

He's like, I'm all about let let him play. He said that before this happened in his defense. I think it's still lame. But he sounds like a kid. No, no, I'm just like, as I agree, like, it's not a good look for the chiefs. This was never part of my argument, really. Like, I think Craig and I both feel the same. It's like, we don't give a shit that.

Like, we can complain. I don't think Patrick Mahomes should be like yelling Josh Allen's ear after the game. Like, that was a terrible call. All right, buddy. That's pretty funny. Josh Allen's not. I'm going to make the fucking playoffs, all right? I feel 100%.

Josh Allen's like, what? What are you talking about? I have infinitely more patience for you guys complaining of the refs than Mahomes on a season where they just keep like... It's like borderline our job to do it. It's not Patrick Mahomes. You want the Super Bowl because of it. The big picture thing is like it sucks that we're talking about this fucking call. Like, I don't want to talk about the refs.

I hate the refraps. I don't want to fucking talk about some infraction from procedure. Let's be the change we want to see in the world. Be the change, D.K. It starts with the man in the mirror. I'm saying be the change. No, no, what's what I was said? Be a ref, DK. Go be a ref.

No, someone did email it and say they should do a thing in the offseason where the refs have to play a football game and the players have to be the rest. I thought that was fucking funny. It's called empathy. I know. But, so it's not got enough attention out of this. It's our fault. I think the Kelsey lateral thing, it's been lost in this,

but players lateraling, obviously fumbles can happen and that would be bad. But, like, in the control, like, if you're able to control it, The play beyond the play, defenses are so, it's like an invasive species. Like, defenses have no plan to account for anyone but the ball carrier. It does feel like the future. I genuinely, like, I think that it takes like a total accident rule breaker of Kelsey was good and a quarterback and he just fucking did it once. How many stories like that in any walk of life have you heard that some idea was just a random guy just did something once? And like there is like something here, some high school that is bad.

and has like worse athletes than every, it's just going to start doing this. And I kind of, I really wonder, like, there's a Montana State, one of those college that has two quarterbacks, and they kind of run the option, but they can both throw. And ironically, I know Cadarist Tony caught it. But my running bit on the Giants was that Odell Beckham and Cadarious Tony both had a stronger arm than Daniel Jones. And I actually think Cadarist Tony does. And the irony of Cadarist Tony's is not really receiver, but like, there are so many guys

that are athletes, how many quarterbacks come out of high school that are like an athlete? And I'm like, if they, if Cadar's Tony in another life where he could. stay healthy, could take an option, like, as a running back, but then also still throw the ball. I feel like, not soon, but like 30 years from now, it's like a whole layer of like the RPO option offense. You can just stack it on top of each other and create like a quadruple quintuple option. And like, I don't know enough about X's and O's to know what that would look like, but I don't know why that would not happen. Well, yeah, it is. It's like for how much everybody used to joke that oh, Lamar Jackson's not a quarterback, he's a wide receiver, he's a running back or whatever.

It's like, imagine if the Ravens just drafted another Lamar Jackson. Dude, he's the Terminator. That's why he wasn't recognizable. Like, if a team ever gets two of those guys, like, the amount of creativity that you could, you know, pull out of that. Also, I think the Chargers in the past, there have been a few plays where the hook and ladder style thing has been done. There was an Echler, Keenan Allen one that was really cool up to sideline once. It's been a play in Madden for like as long as I can remember. And the coaches don't get, you don't work your whole life in, again, it's a control freak atmosphere.

and no one's like, all right, let's like turnovers. But I don't know, DK, what do you, because like, but in all serious, just like, the play was really cool. Am I being nuts? Like, but like, I just, I feel like there is so much meat on this bone. Like, you could probably score that fucking touchdown every goddamn time. That's kind of what I'm saying. It's always there, but no one has the courage to try it.

Like, that's what I'm trying to say. I feel like it's, like some derivative of, like, flea flickers and the, like, double passes and things like that behind the line of scrimmage. Like, we got to get it downfield, you know? It's just the shame that we weren't talking about this instead. I just wanted to state that this is about the refs, not about this specific thing. That's all.

You know what? It's because, D.K., you are ungovernable. I'm just sick of it. Plays being called back by flags. It's just like out of hand. Too many players on the field. Give me seven on seven flag football. I'd be done.

All right. That's all we got. Thank you, DK. Thank you, everyone emailed us in. I really appreciate. I'm sorry we didn't get back to everyone. But I really, we really do appreciate everyone emailing us in. And thank you, Kai, for producing this episode.

And thank you, Kai, for being. a bastion paragon of positive masculinity out here, leaving your comfort zone in front of all these people who support you or would heckle you. I don't know. I don't really know what would happen. We're proud of you. There we go.

We're crunchy green grapes. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you, tears for fears. Ooh. Wait, what's the big one? Shout over heels. Shout. Oh, shout.

Not that shout. The other shout. out. Right. We need a name for that. I think everybody wants to rule the world and head over heels are just as better, but yeah. That's,

I was talking about everywhere. It was the rule of the word. But we need a word for when there's a song that's not the good name of it or like a movie or whatever with like there's a book where there's a title. But then there's like another one that's not that one that's also all right. I love tears for fear though. Tears for Fears is great. Where did you make you think of that, D.K.,

where you listen? I don't know. Yeah. No idea. It's because rest want to rule the world? because I want to shout and let it all out that I just am sick of referees, you know? Who would have thought?

That would be like the biggest disagreement we've ever had. Us, literally the only thread of this show from 2023 is we argued about Kaderius Tony from January through December. Fucking Tony. It's the only threat. It had to be Tony. I still think, loki, the wildest thing that happened to us on this show in 23 was our running bit for the week of the Super Bowl that Kadeer's Tony would have two

touchdown. are under five snaps. It was both. Almost. I know. The all-time middle. All right. Goodbye, everyone.

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