The Ringer NFL Show - Week 11 Recap: The Trevor Lawrence-Calvin Ridley Bounce-back, Tank Dell’s Breakout, and Not Enough Purdy Praise

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

The guys recap NFL Week 11, starting with a classic Russell Wilson performance on ‘Sunday Night Football.’ They also discuss bounce-back players, the Tank Dell breakout, and do a Brock Purdy check-in. Then, they add new names to the Fantasy Burn Book. Check out our Fantasy Football Rankings for this week’s positional rankings and more! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens and Jack Sanders Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if everyone said they heard your trailer a hundred times? You'd probably make a new one. I'm Justin Sales, the host of The Wedding Scammer, the ringer's first ever true crime pod. We've been hunting a con man for a few weeks now, and our hunt is coming to an end. Schemes, Heartbreak, How to Put On a Wire. We've covered all this and more, but there are still a few surprises left. Binge the Wedding Scammer wherever you get your podcasts. Football show, my name is Danny Hifitz. I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Quarlemack.

And Sunday of Week 11 is over. And you know what? So too is the perfect era of Josh Dobbs. Absolutely devastating. Denver Broncos beat the Minnesota Vikings 21 to 20. The game just ended. Craig, how do you feel that an American hero has been knocked? Yeah.

I try to figure out like what is the most impressive thing about Josh Dobbs. And I can't pick because there's like five. I'm like, is it the fact that he's been on the Vikings for two weeks, maybe, and that he's been on four teams in a calendar year, maybe. His, like, scrambling ability is second to maybe Kyler Murray. Legendary. Yeah. Like, he is the slipperiest dude I've ever seen.

He's incredibly poised. He's super tough. There's, like, 10 things that Josh Dobbs does better than, like, 70% of the quarterbacks in the NFL. It's like if Michael Vic worked for NASA, but didn't actually have any time to practice either of those things. Oh, man. That was tough. And like, we were texting during the game just about how great he is. And I remember right when we were texting about how awesome Dobbs is.

He's just like reading his wristband two seconds before taking a snap. It was like he's just really just doing everything off the cuff. This just goes into my theory about Madden and that actually like Madden is just like, coaches that haven't played Madden don't know how to manage the clock, but even like bigger picture, like the overall simulation of millions of people playing Madden has narrowed down the best strategies that work. And it's like running quarterbacks. Everyone and Madden figured that out first.

Fourth down, like going for it, keeping the ball. Everyone figured that out first. Passing over running. Everyone figured that out. And tonight, what is Josh Dobbs doing? Doesn't know the place. He's just, it's like, the equivalent of checking the wristband. It's just like, what's this play again?

And it's like, you hold down the right tricker and you like see what the play is. You're like, right, right. I'll do that. That's not there. I'll just like, uh, scramble. That's all Josh Dobbs is doing. Yeah, it's underrated. People don't talk about how difficult it is to play Madden.

like you pretty much have to pick one to two receivers that you were going to throw to on this play because there's no way you could process five routes and then your brain coordinates that to which button you have to press before you get sat. Maybe just as hard as playing real quarterback. Is it harder than playing NFL quarterback? That's the question.

Maybe. I'm just saying like Craig, we were texting, there was a third and 20 or something where they just ran and they threw the checkdown to touch the other and they just had the three routes on the left just clear out and I'm like, and you were like, I've read that play like a thousand.

thousand times. It's a 12-year-old's bread butter. It's literally a hill Mary and then you're running back just sneaks out after like blocking for us one second. And of course it seems like, oh, they're just going to check down, get 10 yards and try to kick a field goal. No, and then he gets the first down. He gets like 23 yards on the play. Even Russell Wilson's touchdown drive there at the end of the game, every single pass was just a checkdown to Samadjapirin all the way down the field and then he threw a touchdown to Cortland Sutton. I swear to God, the checkdown is like the most valuable pass in the NFL right now. That's a sad state of affairs, Craig. That's so depressing. The checkdown is the most valuable play. I think what's crazy, speaking of the Broncos, too, you know the Broncos, they're five and five. The AFC playoff picture right now. The Steelers are hanging on it for dear life,

but I mean, we have like the Texans, Steelers, bills all six wins. Then we got the Colts and Broncos are right now ahead of the Bengals, Raiders, and Chargers for a playoff spot. It kind of feels right, though. I know, but Russell Wilson and Gardner Minshu being ahead of, I mean, Justin Herbert

will throw a funeral for Joe Burrow later, but like, oh my God, what a weird group. I thought this was the perfect Russell Wilson experience. It's like, I felt like the old man explaining to his like little kids or whatever, like talking to you and Craig about this during the game.

It's like, this is what Russell Wilson, watching Russell Wilson's like, this is what was like in my day. Back in the early 2010s, every Seahawks game was just absolutely miserable. They would like eke their way to like, 180 yards passing after like, you know, 48 minutes or 50, whatever, how many minutes, 55 minutes of the game. And then Russell Wilson in the fourth quarter would lead them on like

one or two amazing drives and like pull some rabbit out of his hat. And it was like, oh my God, Russell Wilson's the best player. Craig was bitching because Russell Wilson looked terrible for the first three quarters. And I was like, yeah, this is what he always looks like for the first three quarters. And it's miserable. And then they win. And then you don't know how to feel about it. It's the Eli Manning scale. And what it is is there are, it's what you, it's what you, you play shitty for 58 minutes and then great for two minutes. And the best at it is Russ. Russ is the Hall of Fame version of it.

Then there's the fringe, which is actually Eli Manning. And then there's the terrible version of it. Eli Benning actually won the two Super Bow, Bow, Bob, Bob, Bob. Eli Manning actually won the two Super Bowels. Okay, fair. Still. I still think Russell Wilson is... Eli Manning is tall Russ who can't move and see over the line. And Russ is like short Eli Manning who can move,

but can't see over the line. This is an interesting one to be. Would you take Prime Eli over Prime Russell? one trillion percent that's a terrible take it's awful don't care one two super bowls Russ's not going to get me three I'm not throwing my two Super Bowls back in a pod trying to get better I'm not you don't have to change anything about your you know precious super bowl it's like you have 28 year old Eli or 28 year old Russ and you drop them on an average team in the Super Bowl who do you want dude the the deep I think that you're right where it's like both of them just don't I'm taking

it's not fun I'm taking that but we just saw it. It's like, it's horrific. Also, at the end, he had the perfect interview where he thanked the defense, God, and then was like, but we haven't done anything yet. I'm like, you know what? Perfect. That's exactly everyone who participated. It was like, thank you defense. Thank you Cortland Sutton. Thank you God. Also, we've done nothing. I'm like, yeah, that's exactly the Broncos this year. I just think it's so funny because like literally during the game, Craig's just texting. He's like, Russell's terrible. He sucks. And I'm like, looking at the Russell Wilson's stats. He is 18 touch. And this was before

he threw the game winning touchdown. So this, he has now 19 touchdowns of four picks on the year. He has like 105 passer rating. His stats are incredible. But then you actually watch the game. And I'm like, and Craig, now I have myself wondering, like, was Russell Wilson ever good? You know what I mean?

Like, okay, but Dick, why do the Seahawks still play like that that's my only question? Like, the Seahawks haven't changed. It's just Russ is like copy and pasted it. Because Pete Carroll is still the coach. I know. All right. Well, otherwise, else were people that actually fun to watch. I want to just shout out and I want to just do a little award here as we're going to week 11 or in a week 12 almost geez but um i'm just the i'm just happy for you award and i would like to just give this out because i feel like

we're in a weird place where the the three most fun teams to watch in the nfl right now are the josh jobs vikings r ap yeah not really they're doing fine but then also it's the houston texans and the detroit lions like those are the three most fun teams to watch and the lions beat the doors off the not really beat the doors off like it's the opposite sorry the bears bears were weirdly beating the doors off the lions. And then the lion just came back and had the most on Lions-like victory I've ever seen. They won, they ended up winning

at the end with like a David Montgomery walking touchdown from the one-yard line. And I'm in New York for Thanksgiving. The Lions down 14 with three points left. And my dad's like, there's no chance the Lions winning this game. Next play, they scored touchdown. Get back the ball, they win. And I'm like, the Lions are now eight and two. It's the best start they've had in 60 years.

And I feel like all our teams... 60. Well, it's funny because now we're at the point where the 60s were not 50 years anymore. It's like 60 years ago. You know what I mean? I had to do that math in my head. In my head, 50 years ago is the 60s. 40 years ago is the 70s. I'm still open to that. Yeah. So it's like, oh, 1962. That's like 50 something. I'm like, oh, my God, that's 60 something years ago. And so all our teams suck. They're all miserable to watch. It's like, you know, the Seahawks said a brutal loss. The Steelers had a brutal loss. The Giants had a brutal win. And like, can we all just agree that, that, like, Like the Lions are just a pure joy team to watch. Yeah. And I think like the way you know that things are different with this franchise is that the old

lions would have lost this game. Yes. And that tells you that there has been a sea change. And I'm really happy for the fans, to be honest. Like all of the fan bases, Minnesota, Detroit, Miami I'm happy for. Like this is a great year for fan bases who really deserve it, who have really been through, been through the mud for decades and decades. So, and Dan Campbell is lovable.

Like these are lovable. Daubs is lovable. It's nice to see Goff get a second run at it. This is like a real redemption tour for, I feel like, franchises and quarterbacks on those teams. Yeah, Goff said today, he's like, we didn't really play well, but like, I guess good, you know, it's good that we came back. And I was like, no, it's exactly what you're saying?

Like the Lions fans, I had a Bill's fan text me earlier this year. Wow, I never thought I'd be at the place where I'd be mad about an ugly win. He texted me that when the Giants lost to the Bills. And he was like, damn, we didn't play well. It's like, Lions fans are like, wait, we didn't play well. and we just won anyway. Like it's just such a weird feeling. It's just so strange.

It's so fun to think of the lines. And then the flip side's like the Texans, it's like I just never in my life have tuned in to watch the Houston Texans. I'm like, got to see this Texans quarterback. Can't miss TV with this guy. Deshawn Houston like five years ago. That's true.

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. That's fair. That's all right, fine. But then still, they had to do. Do you remember anything before the pandemic? I don't. No.

But still, of course, like they deal with the whole Deshaun thing. Deshawn leaves. And then it's like, oh, boy, the Texans are, you know, they're doing the Davis Mills run for two years. And it's lovely to see them getting C.J. Stroud. And you know what I like the most about Houston? Is last year, Houston won a bullshit, useless game in Week 18 against the Colts.

They won by one. Oh, yes. And it knocked them out of the first pick in the draft. And everyone's like, this is why, like, this is why this is a problem. You know, like, you got a tank. If you want the first pick in the draft, you want a pointless game and now you're going to ruin your entire franchise. Well, the Panthers got,

Bryce Young, the Texans get CJ Stroud. It is like the football draft version of Ball Don't Lie. Which is why, High Fitz, your Giants winning today, I think you gotta stay positive. The football gods will reward you for playing good football and you will end up with the right quarterback.

For trying. For trying. They will. Bull fucking shit. No chance. Yeah, the Texas won 21 to 16, and I agree with you on your premise. So Stroud was sick. 27 for 37, 36 yards, two touchdowns, three picks for like the second week in a row three turn of us. That's not. He was a tip.

It's really two. Yeah. But for every, like, 336 passing yards, I think he also had 336 million fathers across the world saying, we need a C.J. Stroud, because that's all I was hearing. It was like, we need a C.J. Stroud. And I'm like, I'm trying, but, like, the Giants are losing it. I'm watching at my house.

I'm home for Thanksgiving. My brother's here. My dad's here. And my dad and I destroyed the Giants are winning. My brother wants to win. And I hear what you're saying, Craig. Oh, yeah, the Texans. Oh, the second pick.

Like, I'm also here with, like, Jets fans. Jets fans beat the Rams in their 17-point underdogs. Instead of Trevor Lawrence, they got fucking Zach Wilson, all right? That didn't go so goddamn well. That's number one. Number two, the Giants didn't fall from the first pick to the second pick today. They fell from the second pick to like the freaking fifth pick. And if they beat the Patriots next week, the Giants, the Tommy DeVito Giants are going to have like a, like the ninth or tenth pick in this draft.

And I swear to God, if the Giants don't even get a top 10 pick out of this goddamn misery, the ball is lost. Hi, Fitz, you're the one. This is wild to me that you're taking this, this tack because, like, we've talked about this like a million times over the last two years. Like, the quarterbacks that fall are the ones that actually do well. It's having a good team around you. It's having like some momentum as a, as a franchise and not just being the absolute fucking worst franchise in the NFL.

Like Patrick Wilhomes was the 10th pick. Aaron Rogers, like going back was almost a, he was like the one of the last picks of the first round. It's basically twice in the last decade. that the number one pick has actually, it was like Burrow and Luck. Yes, but the only quarterbacks that have turned around bad teams

were the generational guys. It was Cam Newton and Andrew Luck and then it was Joe Burrow and now you could say Stroud. Like, it's literally like there is two people like that this year. Lawrence, if you want to argue with the Jags, you can or cannot.

My point, hyphids, my point more is that we don't know that. We don't actually know that. Fair, but I guess what I'm saying, I would push back is that it doesn't, the way the giants are and who is on the team, doesn't matter whether Sam Howell makes like five play.

They were down, they were up four. Like the Giants had five turnovers at one point, and they were up five points on the five turnovers. And it's like, there's 30 seconds left. I don't need a pick six the other way. If Sam Howell just gets the touchdown on one play,

it's one play. I'd rather the loss. I hear what you're saying. But like, God damn it, man. For what it's worth, I would agree with you. Like, in my heart as a fan,

I'm like, I don't want to win any of these games. I want the best pick in the draft. So I like understand, but I like to believe in the higher football power. So just, I agree with that. Just to also just to catch people up. A ball don't lie power. So the Giants lost, the Giants are God, ball don't lie.

Yeah, exactly. Giants won 3119. Praise be. Yeah. Praise be his name. Let me tell you something. I don't think the gods are smiling upon the New York Giants. I don't know.

I have feeling, guys. Whatever. You beat the fucking Patriots, the undefeated Patriots. somebody's smiling down. Dude, that was like the next Super Bowl is like the third part of that Super Bowl is this week with the Giants play the Patriots. It's like the bizarerous Super Bowl, we both want to lose. All right.

So that was, but we should go back to the Texans because it's like the Giants are so pathetic. And I, I, actually wait, I need to read one thing about Tommy DeVito. Since your St. Ball, don't lie, Craig. Tommy DeVito is more multi-passing touchdown games in his career than Cuddy Pickett. Yeah, look. today was, I think, kind of an all-time low in Pittsburgh on the offensive side of the football. Can he pick it through the ball? 13-10s, Cleveland beat the Steelers 13 to 10.

Yes, they lost 13 to 10. Walk-off field goal. Can he picket through the ball past the first down marker one time in the first half? I'm not even saying like it completed, just like attempted ball that passed the first down marker one time in the first half. If it weren't for Jaylon Warren, you know what they are? I think that the. I think the Steelers and look at the field

like a pool and they think that Kenny Pickett can't swim. And they're like, once that three feet thing goes to like five, like you can't go past there. Like that's the only way I can explain the way they run their office. It's a kiddie pool offense.

I'm looking at his passing chart right now, Craig. He had one pass past 10 yards in the middle of the field. one pass of more than 10 yards in the middle of the field. Everything else is either a dump off or a swing pass to the right or to the left or like a prayer to the sideline hoping that like, you know, pickings will come down with that kind of deal. I just, at what point is this Mike Tomlin's fault? This is just where I'm at.

Mike Tomlin, as much as I love him and like, I'm not saying still as you should get rid of him, he would literally be the highest pit coach at Interflin Street with the same day that he got fired. I'm not the like, I would snatch him up in a second. But it's crazy how like, he gets all the credit for always heavy winning season and the defense and when they win. And when the offense literally is like

unplayable, Mike Tomlin. It's like that Matt Canada is not Mike Tomlin's employee. It's because like the Steelers organization treats the team and treats like their philosophy is like a grandfather who's like, just stick with it. You know, it's like millennials change companies every three years. But like the way the Steelers put in your 35 years and get a fucking.

You get a raise every 10 years. And then you retire at 75. Get a pension. Yeah. Yeah. And just get a house at 24. You put in a hard day's work. You get married at 20 and that's your life.

I have 12 kids and children by 40. Yeah. And so they're so stubborn that it's like Mike Tomlin might believe that Matt Canada is not the answer. God, I hope he does. But because they're not the organization that likes to shake things up, they don't do in-season firings, like they are going to ride this out through the season. And I wouldn't be surprised. Matt Canada is the offensive coordinator next year.

No, they're going to promote him. Again. Put in his time. Can we shed some positive light on Jalen Warren? Because I know he had a good week last week, but it really felt like this week was the debutante ball for Jalen Warren, in my opinion. He has officially matured.

It's back. And it's like, you know when there's an actor who's getting old and kind of aging out of a certain age range of roles? And then there's like a new. young up-and-coming one that's like sliding in. I kind of feel like that's what's happening with Austin Echler and Jalen Warren right now. Austin Echler looked the slowest I've ever seen him today. He looks like he's, he looks like he's getting a little bit older.

Like there's a little bit of tread on the tires. And Jalen Warren was fantastic. 129 rushing yards today. Najee Harris has done that once in his career, by the way. Warren had a 75-yard touchdown, and he's been the RB2 in fantasy over the last three weeks. He's fantastic. He obviously shares the undrafted thing with Austin Echler, but Yeah, I mean, he's one of the breakout stories of the year in fantasy.

Stylistically, they're kind of similar players. Like, they're short and stocky, like gyroscope, like balance and running ability plus good in the passing game. I will say, again, anytime you say anything positive about Warren, though, immediately, like, I start having negative reactions because Najee Harris had 12 carries for like 29 yards. 12 carries for 35 yards. And then Jalen Warren, nine carries for 1229. nerds in a touchdown. Echler's such a good comp because you get the rare, like, narrative comp of, like, he's an undrafted free agent behind a, like, why is Melvin Gordon ahead of Echler?

Like, why is Jalen Warren, like, behind Naji? But also, like, D.K. Yuta, right? Like, they do stylistically have the same stuff. And also, Jailen Warren's just, like, low-key bit of top 12 running back the last month. And again, I think fantasy football is hard because, like, after week two at this point, Jalen Warren was, like, a better pickup than Devon A-Chain, which is just, like, an insane thing, but it's basically true at this point. Yeah, the A.

thing's weird because if you added Devon A chain, he had the big week, nobody had him on their team, then you added Devon A chain, and then he had that huge week, and you were like, oh my God, this is the greatest thing ever. Which you might have benched him for. Right. And then the next week, he played well, but then got hurt, and then you've been sitting on your roster for five weeks,

and then you just played him this week, and he got two touches and then got hurt. So you've essentially had, like, one good week of Devon A chain for probably spending $90 of your fab money on him. Jaylon. Jailen Warren's an excellent debutante. You guys never saw the summer I turned pretty, did you? It's great. Great show.

No. No. I recommend. Whatever. But there's been others. I think, I mean, Tank Dell is easily one of the biggest stories of the season. I was going through the numbers today looking at the best,

just like year-long stats right now in fantasy. Tank Dell is the ninth best wide receiver in fantasy. Here are the nine guys, the only nine players in the league at wide receiver who are outperforming Tank Dell this year. Tyree Kill, Keenan, A. A.J. Brown, Justin Jefferson, C.D. Lamb, Monro, St. Brown, Jamar Chase, Defon Diggs. and then tank Dell.

And D.K., you loved him coming out of college. He has Devante Smith vibes. Skinny, Spinley, Shifty. No, no, no. This is like one of my biggest misses, actually, is I didn't love him enough. I feel terrible about it now because I'm like, I essentially did that thing where I was a boomer

and I wrote him off because he's small. You know what I mean? I was like, this guy who was the most productive player in college football. And it's weird because I really like Devanti Smith coming in. I don't know why I didn't. will have the same feeling for Tank Dell. He won the Heysman and went to Alabama. That's, yeah, for sure.

That's probably a part of it. But coming in, he's like one of my biggest regrets in terms of like the draft and not having him higher and not liking him more is because he was like 155 pounds. I was like, this guy is too small to play in the NFL. And by the way, he's not just like a slot receiver. He's playing outside for them. He's like their number one receiver. And so he is absolutely breaking the mold.

And I was just too stuck in my old ways. I was just like, this isn't going to work at the NFL level. He's this 155-pound guy. And then we've seen not only Tank Dell has been like awesome this year, but obviously Tutuatwell when he was given opportunities in the Rams' offensive in the season, he's another guy is like 150 pounds. And he was like really good. Obviously, he kind of got phased out over the last few weeks.

But I have this brand new sort of perspective. Like these guys can work in the NFL. Wade is not your fate. All of Chip Kelly's guys, like the DeAnthony Thomas Kenyon Barner, era. All those guys were in the league now, I feel like they'd have 10-year careers. Oh, yeah. They just played in the wrong era. D. Anthony Thomas is a great. Yeah. There are so many guys that just would have been different. But yeah, you're totally right. Oh, my God. Well, I mean, those are all just small running backs who would probably be exactly the same now.

They're all just Devon A chain. But I also feel like, by the way, we're probably going to chase the next tank Dell. Well, yeah. I think the important thing is that small people are like the new cheat code. It's more like, When a person has the most yards in college football, don't be like, well, they're not even five, nine. He's too small. Like, that's not the number that matters, I think is the point. That's even the only breakout guy in the Texans, Craig. You texted us at 3 o'clock that you were like Devin Sincolterrey,

he's probably Jerich McKinnon for this year when Jerich McKinn had like, what do you have, December 1st, on? He had like, eight receiving touchdowns. Yeah, he just like came out of nowhere. We're probably literally on the waiver wire until like week 12 last year. And that was kind of Devin Singleton. I mean, he basically started to steal a little bit of Damian Pierce's touches, but Pierce got hurt three weeks ago, and since then,

Devin Singletary is the eighth best running back in fantasy, second in the league in rushing yards, second in the league in carries. And it's all because, I mean, one, Devin Singletary is good. And, like, I feel like real, like, tape grinders. I've always loved Devin Singletary and thought he was good. So I guess it's cool to see this, although I still think Damian Pierce is good. But it's, I mean, the most important thing is that the Texans are productive and good. And the problem when drafting running backs this season is, you know,

they need to be on good teams usually to be productive. and we all thought the Texans were going to be mediocre. But because they're good, Devin Singletary is like a legitimate option now, and he's probably going to remain the starter even when Pierce comes back. I don't know how they could go back to Pierce after watching when Singletary's done. I mean, he's just a really good fit for what they're doing on offense. And he's always been, Craig, like you mentioned,

like if you look at the tackle breaking metrics and things like that, he's always been up there. He's just really elusive. He's another guy. He's like in the Jalen Warren mold in terms of size and lowness to the He's just sort of gyroscopically... It's called height. But he's low to the ground.

He's short. 5-7, 203 pounds. Obviously, he's not like the typical size of the leadback, but Jalen Warren, Ossnecler. They just bounce off a dude's gyroscopic balance. I'm not over lowness to the ground. I like that. His lowness to the ground is an advantage.

Deuce Vaughn. Maybe Deuce Vaughn's the next guy to come out. Can two people of the same height have varying levels of lowness to the ground? Yes. Yes. Could you give me an example? Can you give us to? Yeah, please.

Well, like, you know, pad level, you know the term pad level? Guys just play lower to the ground. Like, you can be the same height but not play with good pad level. I mean, look, I suppose you can have different length legs, right? If you've really long legs and a short torso. If you're actually being serious, yes, that's true. Your center of gravity is, I guess, lower. If you have shorter legs.

You're low cut. That's why Jared Goff can't poop on the road, something with his legs? Just like, I don't know. Something like that. Although he kind of pooped the bed today at home. Maybe he had something bad for dinner last night. Well, the Lacing threw him off. Yeah.

He made up for the end. That episode. I did. But no, I think, yes, Craig, that's, you bring up a good point. Like, where, how high is your waist from the ground? That should be something that we like, you know, track. Should that be a combine measurement? Yes.

Lowness to the ground? Yes, your waist tight. Are we already on this? Because we said we should measure all the guy. You should measure all the guy. guys are the combine for suits. That is good. Yeah.

That is good. Yeah. The other person I want to shout out for the breaking out this week. Just dude, Romeo Dobbs, the Packers, crazy stat. Tyree Kill leads the NFL,

nine touchdown catches. Romeo Dobbs is in a large tie for second place. With just a bunch of people, he has no business being around. He hasn't been like outstanding this year. He's like a top 40 receiver, but like Romeo Dobbs just, just talk about a Glansberg of all Glansberg.

It's a guy we've not talked about all year. Meanwhile, it's like, you got Christian Watson for the Packers, who was, you know, a second round pick, much bigger deal last year, much bigger deal entering this season.

Not only, Christian Watson had a touchdown this week. I think a lot of people have cut him recently. He had a touchdown. He was like, oh, bounce back. He had two catches for 21 yards, Christian Watson did.

And not only I think is Christian Watson at this point behind Romeo Dobbs as the number one receiver for the backers. I feel like Christian Watson is behind Jaden Reed as the number two receiver for the backers. And D.K., I actually think Christian Watson is behind the sixth round rookie

Don'tavian Wicks. As the fourth, I think that there are three rooks. I'm not kidding. This is not a hot take. Or I guess Dobbs is not a rookie. But Dobbs is the same age as Watson. And then I think there are two rookie receivers

ahead of Christian Watson on the Packers. Like, is it fair to say Watson's like the fourth receiver on Greenback? I'm not even, I'm not kidding. I mean, honestly, like if you ask Packers fans, I'm not super in tune with Packers Twitter,

but I feel like people in Packers Twitter love Donatio and Wicks. He's good. Getting really fed up with Christian Watson, who is either failing to catch a contested pass or getting hurt or dropping something. Like, you know, he's just been very frustrating this year. Dantavian Wicks had three catches for 91 yards today. Every time he touches the ball, he makes something good happen. Jaden Reed, by the way, I think flashes every time he touches ball.

And that includes running back carries or like end-around type carries. He always just makes explosive plays. I don't understand why they don't get him more involved. And by the way, with so many injuries at their running back position, he might end up getting some like Randall Cobb style work going forward. Christian Watson has just been a smaller, slower, less annoying version of Chase Claypool World this year.

A hundred percent. That's a really good comp, actually, because remember Claypool had like a bunch of touchdowns his rookie year and then just couldn't do anything after that for a multitude of reasons. Ever. It never happened after that. But I mean, like we were very much rejecting

a lot of probably not replicable big plays from Christian Watson as a rookie where Aaron Rogers was just throwing him deep balls. So yeah, that's a really good comp. I like that one. Brutal. All right, we could probably need a little chaser here. All right, people that actually bounce back.

Just guys from the dead. Yeah, we've been, I feel like we've been selling a lot of guys as bylaws for like two, three, four weeks now and we'll get to Tony Pollard. But it was a huge week for a lot of these guys where like the expected fantasy points guys where it was like, no, no, the underlying numbers suggest that these guys are going to bounce back.

We got to start with the Jags. The Jags won 34 to 14. Trevor Lawrence, number one quarterback in fantasy on the day by a wide margin, 32 fantasy points. Thank God. Two touchdowns passing. He was running. He looked great. The offense looked great.

Everyone's healthy. And then Calvin Ridley, who we just talked about on Power Hour this week. Calvin Ridley, 100 yards, two touchdowns, number one wide receiver in fantasy this week. He's pretty feaster famine, like we've said, he has three games with more than 17 fantasy points. And then he's got four games with less than five. So you know, you kind of want a little more consistency out of that. But so nice to see Trevor Lawrence actually kind of like get back to what he used to be. And it's funny, they were talking about it on the broadcast.

They said that this is the first week where he felt fully healthy, where he wasn't actively thinking about his knee while playing. Yeah, the two rushing touchdowns. So then he just like launched himself at the byline for like, I think the first one. And he just like, I was like, yeah, his knee's fine. Or he's on great drugs. Does this make you think both, probably both? Does this make you think that Trevor Lawrence is kind of going to. to finish the season, you know, in the top 10 range where he was drafted, or do you think

this is kind of a fluke? And they played a bad team. I think that both. I don't think he will be a 31 points each week. I do think the rushing touchdowns has always been underrated with Lawrence. I don't think two is fair. But he's way faster than you think for like a very tall, pale white, six-foot-six guy runs like a newborn giraffe. Yeah. It's like Jared Goff runs like a newborn giraffe. Like Lawrence, even in Clemson, was like, I don't know. He's like, oh, he's always like he can rush it in. So I don't think it's out of character, honestly, but I know, I think that, you know what?

I'm mad because after week one, everyone does like overreactions. We did underreactions. And every week, there is something that we're fixed on that actually means nothing at all. And last week it was the Jaguars game, getting the blown out by the Niners. And we're like, oh, Lawrence, here's a new person

who criticized. They're fine. They're going to be fine. And in a weird way, I almost think that the Texans and Jags might make the playoffs. But the flip side is we were like so focused on the Niners beating the crap out of the Jaguars last week that the actual common thread was not the Jaguars being bad. It's that the Niners just beat the crap out of another team this week.

And so I think bounce back was that Brock Purdy and the Niners had lost three straight games. They came back to beat the Jaguars this week. Brock Purdy just once again, unbelievable. And I think Craig, it's been a win-it, but I think we need to check in on whether you're part of the Brock Party cult now. Do you believe? I'm kind of pivoting, to be honest. Look, I think in life, you learn new things and you change, you adapt, you know. I like to say strong opinions loosely held.

And Brock Purdy was 21 for 25, 333 yards and three touchdowns, and nobody really gives a shit. Everyone's just like, yeah, that's just Brock Purdy's game. If Patrick Mahomes, that would be like, ah, Mahomes, it'd be the Collinsworth, like, Patrick Mahomes. Like, Brock Purdy is, I think perhaps the best Kyle Shanahan quarter. Like he is playing at Matt Ryan MVP levels right now, and he's the last pick in the draft, and he hasn't even played 16 regular season games. This is, uh,

he's like he had a perfect pass rating today. Oh, yeah. Nobody cares. Perfect pass rating quarterback for the 49ers since like, I don't even know. The only people to do that. No,

the only Niners quarterbacks that have a perfect pass rating game are Joe Montana, Steve Young and Brock Birdie, which is like, literally MVP's, you know, legendary quarterbacks. So the 90s. beat the bucks 27-14 honestly it felt more like 35 to 7 i can't explain that but it's true like it

it didn't feel any the fact that it was the 13 point game just feels wrong uh but it just doesn't look stressful but the night brock pretty looks so calm it looks so easy for them it just looks like they're at practice like playing seven on seven because you know why kyle shannon's playing madden in brock purdy's head well it looks like madden the way everybody's opened by 20 yards every time Brock Purdy steps back to pass. But yeah, I'm back to thinking the Niners are the best team in the league again. I'm going to be 10 years from now. Brock Purdy is going to be like a 10-time All-Pro or a nine-time All-Pro.

And I'm still going to be like, I don't know how long this is going to last. You know, like it just feels like this is not replicable going forward. You know, I just don't know if I believe. It's like the opposite of Tony Pollard. We're like, no, no, it's coming. I admit that when Josh Dobbs throws a game away with like a freaking like, intentional grounding. It's like, oh dear, oh dear, gorgeous.

And Rock Party has like two bad passes at a 40-point win. I'm like, you fucking donkey! He has like one, he has like one shaky interception. Everyone's like, yep, I mean, last pick in the draft. This is what you couldn't expect from a guy like that. I'm like, dude, this guy, there's for 303 touchdowns every single week. Here's we'll admit.

Here's where I will admit. The Eagles haven't played yet. But I, if the teams are healthy and honestly, health is like a way larger determinant of who wins and makes the Super Bowl every year than we ever talk about. And that honestly, like, fantasy football, NFL, super similar in that, like, it's kind of like you have a great team.

And then, like, of the great teams, it's like who's healthy at the end is, like, most of it. And we never talk about that. But even the real NFL, it's like, if you just look, the last, like, seven Super Bowls, six of them are just like the two teams that, the two good teams that had 20 to 22 players left.

So with all, with that caveat, the Niners are clearly, like, the healthy Niners are clearly the best team. I swear, like, they just are. They're a buzz saw. They're with the Eagles. Like the Eagles, you can hash it out if you want. But I think even Eagles fans, I don't think would be like, yeah, we're better than them.

Niners Finns, they just are. So I will say with all that said, if the Niners won the Super Bowl, this is everything we ever said about Tom Brady early in the trilogy. Everything that was said about Purdy, with the exception of the crazy offensive weapons. But if the Niners win the Super Bowl, the Tom Brady stuff's going to go out the freaking wazoo. But wasn't Brady much more like real defensive, not putting up a lot of points? game managing. Purdy's like kind of putting up... Yeah, but like,

Cardi is a game manager in a way. Like, he's not doing... Like, the yard... He's a game manager in a new era. Yeah. Yeah, yes. Thank you, D.K. Like, George Kettle's not fucking covered.

Like, what? They throws, like, aren't... Like, no one's guarding him. Brandon, he hit the touchdown he threw to Brandon at Uke last week. Kyle's shit in and walked up to the podium. He was like, that touchdown is probably the worst decision I've seen him make since he put on the uniform. I think the hard part,

and I think the thing that's going to make it. The thing that's going to make it hard for Purdy to get the same Tom Brady, like, Mystique or whatever, is like... Is it the other six Super Bowls? Well, that too, but I'm just saying, like, the idea that you could plug, like, of how many quarterbacks you could plug into the 49ers system, and they would just absolutely just fucking shred. Well, that was Brady Manning. That's all hypothetical, but people believe that to their core. You know what I mean? And that's not fair for Brock Purdy, but that's honestly what's going to happen.

Are we really saying Brock for a few more years? Brockport who's Kevin Durant. Anyone who could have came with the Bay and won with that team. That's just like, you know, come on, man. Go to a real title, Brock Brady. Other bounce back guys who bounced back this weekend who was super disappointing. D.K. Metcalf and the Seahawks, which we have talked about Metcalf and also the end of that game was bizarre. D.K. Metcalf put you in position to win the game.

And then Seattle settled for a 55-yard field goal, which like 12, back in your day when you were talking about the early aughts, teams didn't even try 55-yard field goals sometimes. I know. Apparently what happened at the end of that game, I don't know if you saw this, but Gino Smith was saying that, so he completed a pass to D.K. McCaff over the middle of field.

They got down to, I don't even know what it was, like 40-something yard line. And all of a sudden, his comms went out in his helmet. This is like a Patriots-era, like conspiracy thing that's happening. Tom Brady.

He made him great. He lost all communication. He didn't know exactly what was going on. This is the first time it happened in the game. And so he called, just quickly that run to Charbonnet on the next play, they got like three or four yards, and then they had to clock it and go for the field goal instead of trying to get like 10 more yards on like an hour or something like that, you know, five more yards to make it like slightly

more palable because there's a 55 yard attempt to win the game. And obviously, Jason Myers missed the kick. But everyone was like, why the fuck would they run Charbonnet with no timeouts in that situation. And it was apparently because they had lost all comms in their headset. It was 17 to 16 and then they missed the field goal so you guys could have won. And yeah, it's just. So that was a tough ending.

But if you're looking for silver linings like D.K. Metcalf, I felt like for the first time this season, they were using him like you would use a number one receiver. Like you would use a true alpha receiver. There was multiple plays in this game, including his touchdown in the first quarter where they did, they got him lined up using scheme in one-on-one. situations and he just won and like they threw him the ball. Like that's the thing that we've been wanting. That's what we want you to do instead of just spreading it out to all these different guys. Like use this six foot four, two hundred thirty pound guy who runs a four three as your

number one receiver, as you like your ball winner. And he did it on another play later in the game where they got him in isolation, one-on-one situation and he had like a 50-yard bomb down the left side line. So he ended up with five catches for 94 yards and a touchdown. It feels like this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of regression coming back and helping. Metcac is over the last couple of years. He's had one of the most amounts of end zone targets of any player in the NFL and it hasn't manifested in a touchdown.

So hopefully this is the beginning of like good things for DK. Mattcalf going forward in that area. There were also so many injuries in this game. Gino Smith heard his elbow. We went to the blue tent and seemed like he'd be out for the game. They can put your lock blade. And then Gino came back. Kenneth Walker left with an oblique injury.

And there were just so many injuries. on the day. Like Cooper Cup left this game with an ankle injury. He went out. And then just overall, like this whole week, like Aaron Jones was carted off for the Packers. Packers running back Aaron Jones. And then the same drive, Emmanuel Wilson, one of the other Packers running backs also was carted off like two or three plays later. So the Packers had one running back in the game. And that's all coming after Thursday football, the carnage Thursday football where like Joe Burrow is out for the season. Mark Andrews is out for the season. Like, that was in the first half of Thursday at football.

And so, like, I know we keep talking about this, but, I mean, the fact, and the fact that we thought Drew Locke was going to be in there. I mean, Zach Wilson was benched. That's probably the best. But then Tim Boyle's out here throwing picks, you know, intersections are basically big six. I know we keep talking about how many bad quarterbacks are playing. But, like, I don't know how many we can keep adding the list. Like, the fact that we got, I got to figure out who, like, freaking Jake Browning is. You know what I mean?

And going through it. Like, this is crazy. Just getting worse every week. It's like the snowball effect. who are these quarterbacks that are freaking playing in the NFL right now. Tommy DeVito's now one of the more famous players in the NFL. He's like, yeah, he's top 10 quarterback. He's like, I mean, Kenny Pickett could never.

I think after like 12 weeks, we should just eliminate like six teams from like the season. Like they just stop. You know, it's like an eliminate pool. The guillotine leagues or whatever. Like just do that in the NFL. When Bill's Jets, the other games ended, there was like 11 minutes in Bill's Jets. I was like, it was 29 to 6. I was like, do we need to do this?

Who wants this? Yeah, if you get to week, if you get to week 12 and you have less than four wins, it's over. You're done for the year. And the draft picks are determined based on the week 12th. Dude, you know that Ted Lassau joke when they're like soccer, relegation, what's that? They explain it. It's like, what are they doing in America? It's like, oh, yeah, everyone just plays out completely meaningless games and completely empty stadiums and it's totally soulless process.

And everyone's pretty much okay with it. It's bizarre. Bengals, I know this happened Thursday, but like, we have to talk. I feel like the Bengals, it seems more likely than not, that they will miss the playoffs, which is absolutely astounding. The Bengals are dead last in the AFC North. And once again,

they're behind the Broncos down the playoff race. And now they have Jake Browning running the offense for the rest of the season. I don't know what to say. This sucks. Sucks for Jabrough, who now two of his four seasons in the league have been riddled with injuries.

He's had two healthy seasons out of four. Sex for Jamar Chase. Can I say an awful thing? Yeah. Burrow is giving me Dan Marino vibes. Dan Marino reached the second, reached the Super Bowl in the second season. Statistically,

it probably is the greatest season of quarterbacks ever had. It's not the record anymore, but it's like the equivalent of 70 passing touchdowns, Dan Marino having 48 in like 84. And then everyone's like, oh, he'll get there, and then he never got back to the Super Bowl.

And I'm just a little afraid for you, Calm down. I'm just saying like, it'll be fine. Don't panic. Who said panic? it is it is going to be hard to have a joe burrow jemar chase t higgins trio on a team he ends a free agent i don't be i know that's what i'm saying so this is like i i understand where you're coming from because now next year it's going to be like joe burrow and

some random running back and jemar chase and andre yosevas you know as the number two receiver trenton irwin you know joe jones baby yeah it's like it's going to be a little different vibe. And it is almost like capturing lightning and a ball. This is also what the 49ers doing this year. Like the amount of skill player talent they have is insane. Like we're never going to see this again. Maybe that's where eventually Purdy will fall back to Earth.

But until then, like we should just enjoy this. But like with Joe Burrow, it's tough because now they're going to have to figure out a way to get him back to like, you know, the peak of where he was a couple of years ago last year. Yeah. All these injuries, we'll get to a lot more of these on the Waver show and the, like the fallouts like, you know, Burrow what to do with the Bengals and, you know, Ken Walker, you know, Cooper Cup, like a lot of these injuries will get more information. We'll talk about on a waiver show on Monday.

We'll also still have Power Hour and our Thanksgiving-ish awards weekend preview this week. But I will get to those injuries. I do want to just shout out one team. I want to give the Formula One award to the Miami Dolphins because the Dolphins went against vague, you know, played Vegas. And they had their like sports car formula. one like racing speed receivers and they like won the game but they got the absolute crap kicked out of all their cars like all the formula one cars in Vegas this week were like apparently they're

going so fast that they were vacuum sucking the potholes up and shattering like the underneath the carriages of the car and that's what it felt like watching this dolphins game where tyrie kills out running four raiders and then just running into the tunnel and then divan a chan just hurts his after like two or three touches and i just i don't know the dolphins one was a 2013 but and yet i felt so much worse about the dolphins after this game ended. Doesn't feel the same. I apologize, Carlos.

It just doesn't feel the same. Also, what is the scenario in which Jalen Waddle has a good football game? Dude, I was thinking that. Do that for me. Is it not them at home against the shitty Raiders and Tyree kills hurt?

Like, what else needs to happen? No Devon A-Chane? Explain that. All the Raiders' corners are hurt, and Marcus Peters was hurt. Like, what else do we need? Tyree Kill got hurt. It looked bad.

Then he was fine. And then Devon Ait Jan looked fine and he didn't come back. But like Waddle, he's just, he had some good catches. Look at, they had two, uh, had 10 completions to Tyrie Kill. The next closest was Waddle with four. Yeah, he had 55 yards. That's not what you drafted him for. Tyree Kill had like a 55 yard catch.

Tyree Kill is like one of the best receivers in the NFL. I understand like, if you're making a comparison, uh, Carlos has entered a chat. going to be disappointed. Carlos is coming in. Dick, no, this has been a theme all weekend. Craig and I are like, Craig and I'm going to die on the Waddle. And we're like, but you're not living in the world, you're thinking about Waddle and his potential and his draft stuff.

In the world of having Jalen Waddle this fantasy season, you took him in like the third round. He's had one game all year. Week one and then like two weeks ago and you're like, this person took in the third round, you've been happy that you've had him like once or twice. Lighter receiver 26 this year, Jalen Waddle. That's not it. He was like the 24th pick overall.

guys are just I feel I We're not picking on him I have good I don't actually like have a emotional attachment to Jail Waddle but I just think it's weird

that you're picking him out of like all the players that have sucked this year He's all like the sexiest offense in football He wasn't even on the field when the team scored 70 It's like what do you do here

You know Offenses pass it to the Italians not pass it to the Italian Singulate It's supposed to be plural I thought Waddle had a good game. He made a couple of nice catches. Not for me.

Carlos, you come in here. Tell me what's up. Am I wrong for defending Jalen Waddle? As someone who's very invested in Jalen Waddle fantasy, I am kind of on DK's page, but the problem is like I'm a Dolphins fan, so it kind of skews everything. Like if

the dolphins win and Jalen Waddle has like nine points, I'm like, all right, whatever, it was a solid, but in general, I agree. That's exactly the entire five. Yeah, 100% That's what I'm saying. You've never been like, oh, he fucked me. It's always just been like, ah, that's right.

And half, PPR, that's seven and a half. Okay. That's like a play from like the one yard line. He's the wide receiver 26. He was a wide receiver like 22 as of coming into this week. He's not fucking you. This is, you guys, you know, you're not understanding what I'm saying. He's a, he's so mad about this guy who's been like slightly below.

We're not mad, DK, we're just disappointed. Yes. This is what half PPR. Find someone else. to get mad about. He's like, you don't need to get mad about Jalen Waddle. It is weird that Tua,

either Tua or McDaniel just like forget that he exists sometimes. Like, yeah, he had four catches today. Three of them were on the drive that Tyreek Hill was injured and in the locker room. Like, so when Tariq was gone,

too, it was like, oh yeah, Jalen Waddle exists and threw to him three times on the drive. And I think this card touched on that drive. Yeah. So I don't know what it is. It's really strange because last

year they both were able to eat and it was fine, but it's just not the same this year with Waddle specifically. All right. Well, I'm sure that this is resolved. It's just a weird guy to be so, so much anger directed to him, I feel like. I'm trying to figure out how to articulate this in a different way that makes it more clear how we feel. It's, Hife's just screaming at me.

Craig, you're not, you're not really the one that's the problem here. High Fitts is screaming at me about Jail and Wattel. though that's usually the case. Like, fucking take it down a notch. This is what I say to, this is what I say to my son, my son Calvin when he gets really, really upset about some like innocuous thing. I'm like, take it down two notches. It's not that big of a deal.

When I hit that half court shot, they were like, you're going to win a car. And I was like, amazing. And then they were like, oh, I just made it. Where's my car? And they're like, two-year lease. Jaylon was a two-year lease right now. Yeah, I know. but to me that's like, you know,

don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Dude, they said he gets the car. He made the shot. It wasn't a gift. You should read the fine print. No, there wasn't no fine print. I wasn't presented with a contract. I'm just kidding.

Oh, my God. I understand where you're coming from. And honestly, if Craig was the one that was trying to tell me this, I probably would be like, yeah, I get that. But Hyphen's just screaming at me. Gets my hackles up or whatever you call it. Yeah. All right.

Well, speaking of. screaming. Brandon Staley and the press car, he didn't scream, but Brian Staley got really bad at the press conference. And I'm not going to lie, I thought it was really funny. He was basically asked, what was he exactly asked? He was asked, like, you're going to fix the defense or what? I feel like that was the vibe. And it was basically

about calling the defense. And he basically did that Nick Sabin, like, so quit asking. Like, he did this, like, long answer about like, uh, because I don't know if you know, but the charges lost another close game that they should have won in the fourth quarter, 23, 20 to the backers. I won a,

I have this very long article on the ringer that is updated with every Chargers loss that's really sad. You update that? That's amazing. I've updated it three times. From 2006 to now from last year and it's every sad Chargers loss.

And like the amount of times I have to update it and the most incredible thing doing it was how the DNA of the team has gone through like five coaching staffs. And I'm sitting there and what I have at the end of every loss in 2006, I have a sad quote from the coach. And I was watching this game

and I was like, wow, I wonder what like sad thing Brandon Stelis going to say after this. And he literally said, I cannot believe he said this. He basically was like, they're asking, he goes to this long thing.

He's like, so stop asking the question. It's like, stop asking me. You could stop asking about the defense. It's not going to change. Like, don't put it in the newspaper. I'm mad.

Brandon Staley's not going to be on a team next year, is he? There's zero chance. It's sad that he was clean-shaven. And then he grew the beard. And the beard was sad. And then they won. shaved the beard. And now I was watching this clean-shaven brand still, you get mad again. And I'm like, you can't do that. You can't go clean-shaven to beard back to looking clean and then

like sad again. Like that's just so like it's such a snip step. Remember how we talked about on our Friday preview show, we talked about Josh Allen going to play the Jets and how this was kind of a referendum on Josh Allen's career. And if he lost the Jets, we would be kind of over the hump with Josh. And we would have kind of decided, all right, like maybe he is the problem. I think this loss to the Charger, or to the Packers by the Chargers is like, as a real, I'm finally like fully doubting them as a franchise organization in this Herbert era where I'm like, I actually don't know what the problem is anymore. I still think Herbert is very good, but we were having an argument over text about who would

you have right now, C.J. Stroud or Justin Herbert for the next 10 years. And I know, I know, in a vacuum. And it's like, I know Brandon Staley's not the best coach. I know Herbert started with Anthony Lynn, but now he has Kellen Moore, and they're doing well enough offensively. I know the defense isn't great. But where do you guys stand on that right now? CJ Stroud or Justin Herbert next 10 years, you know,

contracts aside. To be clear, it's a vacuum. Yes. It's in a vacuum because if Stroud was on the chair, I wouldn't take Mahomes on the charges versus like Tommy DeVito somewhere else. The charges are cursed, but we're extricating them from whatever curse has been on their house.

I mean, my place is, or my position is I would take Herbert. And maybe it's just me holding on to the idea that we've seen more from Herbert. Like we have a longer track record. I'm still, you know, waiting for their shoe to drop with Stroud. Even though I love Stroud, I'm very excited. But he has already considered, I think, like a top seven quarterback in the NFL. It's been like 10 games or 11 games.

And it's like I just don't want to jump to too many conclusions so quickly about Stroud being like this top six, top seven guy. someone better than Justin Herbert who has like the most insane collection of highlight throws you've ever seen from any quarterback in this generation other than like Patrick Mahomes. His peak throws and he can run by the way too

are just like otherworldly but he's stuck on this team that it's in their DNA to absolutely just blow every game. What does that mean? I don't know. I don't know. Well, dude, no, it does. The charge, well, the thing about Herbert, the Herbert stuff I'm not willing to put losing on Herbert because again,

The study I go back to with him specifically. I agree. Like the idea that he hasn't been in a playoff game, I reject because they, they had a win it in playoff game and he converted like four fourth and tens. That was the greatest working fourth quarter. We're just forgetting about some of the shit he's done. It's like, you know. The greatest performance I've seen from a modern quarterback,

like it's in the conversation with anything I've seen in like non-braided division in like my entire life. But the, Herbert, the thing I'll say is his rookie year, if we just sliced off the first like 10 games of Herbert's rookie year, we were also like freaking out. And I also think it's something

who's said about like happiness is just reality minus expectations. And like we just have higher expectations for Herbert. We didn't have any expectations for Stroud. And I think it's silly to not. I think my gut answer when you asked me that question was Stroud.

My real sober answer is we just have like, we thought Herbert would MVP maybe or would be talked about. And I think that that's clouding it. So I agree with D.K. Like the reality is Stroud through three picks today and they won anyway. And it's like silly.

times to me where it's like, well, if the defense had just done worse, we'd be mad at Stroud for throwing the mix. This is the Gordon Ramsey thing. It's like every time he makes a mistake, we're like, oh, oh, dear. Oh, gorgeous, gorgeous. Brock Purdy. That's great. You fucking donkey.

I don't know. Through three things today. I think I agree with you that it's probably Herbert, but there's, I don't know, there's an intangible. It's close that I think, Stroud has the Joe Burrow winning aspect to him. Some people win and some people don't. And it's an X factor, intangible, whatever you want. to call it. And it feels like Stroud has already had three games where he's shown that.

And Herbert's, it's always weird. I don't know why. I agree. And you know what's tough? Thrower in the league. And yet it still feels weird. Stephen Ruiz, who's like as Herbert as it will get, like the most pro-Hurbert guy in the world will admit that Herbert, what he lacks, if anything, of an elite trait is like the creativity. And sometimes, like, he's almost robotic in that he just kind of almost executes the play. He's like a little too much of like, yeah. So even just with this game today, he made like the most incredible play, threw it down the sideline and, and Quentin Johnson dropped it. Like, how different would the narrative be if that hadn't happened? You know what I mean? We have to talk about that drop because also Quentin Johnson, I was a first shrimp pick and I get it,

got raw. He was always raw coming in and he wasn't like a contested catch guy. He wasn't like supposed to be great-hand catcher coming in. But then Josh Palmer on IR. Jalen Gaiton, Guyton does, comes back, doesn't play. Mike Williams, Thursdays, CEL. It's like, okay. Oh, Gerald Everett sounds like, all right, Quinn Johnson, like, we're down four guys. Like, this is kind of your time. The thing about that drop. It wasn't like in his hand staring at the quarterback. It was like running, but it's like those gloves they wear are so goddamn sticky.

Oh, yeah. Like we don't talk about drops enough. They're so, have you guys ever worn the gloves that NFL players wear? Yeah. No. They're insanely sticky. It's like playing with stick them on your hands. I am not saying I could do those things at all, but I'm saying you can just kind of like stand still and try to do the O'Dell Beckham catches.

And you're like, oh, I get this makes so much more sense now. when you wear the gloves? Like with a smaller football, you just like, I could do this. Like it's, hobby harder in an NFL game, but it's like,

it hit both the hands. It hit like 10 fingertips. Like I don't, like, they're so sticky. Do you guys think there's a correlation between quarterbacks who throw the ball really hard and drops?

Is that a thing that people have looked into? Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes. Josh Allen had that problem. Anthony Richardson has that before the, even Herbert just like, Herbert throws balls on a rope.

And sometimes I'm like, there's a lot of like memes out there. right now, but like Josh Allen has a receiver open five yards down the field, and then it's like a guy throwing a baseball 108 miles an hour. Hyvitz, do you think you've worn the gloves? Do you think if you were in that position where Quentin Johnson was you would have caught that ball? Sounds like yes. Oh, I never would have been in that position. I could have run for 30 yards in a row. But I was standing still, dude, gloves, maybe. By the way, this is off topic sort of. But people have, I've gotten a lot of tweets about people being mad at me that Craig, me saying that. Craig could run a 499 or above in a 40. Yeah, that's ridiculous.

They don't buy that shit. Of course, dude. Of course. DeAndre Hopkins ran like a 4-8. I think you could. If you're right, it's worse. Let me train you. We'll do a montage.

It actually undermines the entire process. Because if anyone who's like even kind of athletic can just be a 4-9, then what the fuck does this all mean? I think anyone who's kind of athletic can be a 4-9. Yes. I don't think so, man. I do. It's crazy that D.K's the one who does, like, the combine scouting,

and, like, he's confident I could run a 4-9, and Hyattvitz and I are, like, not draft experts at all. But, like, no fucking way. What's nuts is, like, 4-7s in the NFL. That's the margin we're talking about? Dude, Keenan Allen. 4-7 for, like, what? Why receiver?

That's, like, really fucking slow for a receiver. Keenan-allon ran a 4-7-1. Yeah, that's like, he's, like, one of the all-time outliers, Craig. that's usually like a deal breaker. I know, but he's like a top five fitness receiver right now. Okay. He's all famous.

I'm not saying even you're wrong. I'm saying that you being right is almost shatters like the grand delusion. I think, I think your vision of like how fast a 4-8 is is not correct. Like it's not that fast. It's not that crazy to run a 4-8.

Maybe the problem is like, it's just a decimal problem and that I can't actually process a tenth of a second. Okay. Jared Gough, I just looked it up. Jared Gough runs a 4-8-2. Does that change anybody's thoughts? Do you think he's fast? Do you think he's fast?

I don't. You just call you, High Fitz, you called him a, what was it, a baby giraffe earlier? Yeah, newborn baby giraffe. You literally on this show called Jared Gough a baby giraffe. And relative to all the elite athletes around it, this is a Greg Maddox quote, who's like one of the greatest pictures ever. I don't think a car can't like... If you saw him run in real life, you'd think he's fast.

I actually have seen him run in real life. And that's true. I did not think he was staff. You know what I... I refuse to believe. I reject the statistic that Keenan Allen is 0.1 seconds faster than Jared Goss. That's true. That has to be wrong.

There's no way. Here's the bottom line. Here's the bottom line where I think you guys are... I think we're not really that far apart, but like... I think to me the difference between a 4-8 and a 4-4 is like... fucking massive. Like, when you see someone run a 4-4, it's... It's insane how fast there.

Like, you don't think it's physically, humanly possible for someone to run that fast. I think a 4-8 is like, Jared Goff can run a 4-8. Like, he's not a fast person. Like, I don't care that he's an NFL quarterback. He's not a fast person. Like, he's like a normal speed person. The problem is all these numbers start with four. Like, we haven't normalized it.

Right. That's what I'm getting to, like, zero to 100. The magnitude between 4-4 and 4-8 is, like, fucking gigantic. Yeah. It's the Grand Canyon. It's a percentile. The entire scale is between a 4-2 and a 4-8. When you see a 230-pound person, this is why it was so impressive when Anthony

Richardson ran. When you see someone that big run a 4-4 or 4-3, it's like that is a superhero. It looks literally like you're watching a superhero. It's crazy. Anyway, this is like we've gotten so off topic. I just wanted to bring that up. But what I was really going to say, Craig, to get it all the way back is Pete Carroll has has espoused this, and it goes back to, like, the days with Joe Montana and Bill Walsh and all this.

Bill Walsh said, the only thing you need as a quarterback is to throw a catchable football. And it's like, you don't even have to have it that hard. Just throw it so the receiver can catch it. Put it where he can get it. Put it so it's catchable. And so, like, a catchable football is a massive, like, a really big part of, like, what Pete Carroll believes is, like, a key to being a quarterback. So, yes, I do think you can throw it too hard to bring it all the way around. And like a guy like Joe Burrow, just I test.

he throws a catchable football. And there are sometimes with Herbert, he'll make the most impressive throw I've seen all month. But it's on such a laser, and it's right in the guy's hand, but it's going 100 miles an hour. And unless you're dealing with, unless he's throwing a Keenan Allen,

who has like the best hands in the league, if it's like Jalen Guyton, it's harder for those guys I feel like to catch those missiles. All right, here's the problem. No, here's the problem. Missiles. I'm hearing what everyone's saying.

It's the piss ride. And I'm hearing what everyone's saying. Okay. Here's my issue. I'm on the Wikipedia page for 2023 NFL draft. 21th overall. Chargers. 21. 21. 21.

21st. That was like what I would say. I fucked that up. You know what's great about this show though? Like every other podcast in the planet would go, I'm going to retape that. And we're like, nah. He's an idiot.

It's the whole bit. He's a host who can't talk. It's great. It's like, anyway, Chargers took Quentin Johnson. Ravens, next pick, say flowers. Next pick, Vikings, Jordan Addison. Those dudes can catch.

Why did the Chargers? if they're like Justin Herbert, great quarterback, all the right decision, aren't football, not that catchable? Why'd they take the one receiver who can't catch the goddamn ball and we knew that entering the draft?

Take Jordan Anderson. Why did the Vikings? Hyphids, or was it, not the Vikings? Who took Jalen Rager? No, Jailer one pick before Justin Jefferson? That's right. Eagles, sorry.

Yeah, the Vikings took Justin Jefferson. We were talking about how the one identifiable issue, if there is one with Herbert, is that his ball's uncastable. We took the one guy who were like, I don't know if he can catch. That's crazy. crazy.

Yeah. Yeah, whatever. Correct. Correct. Draft is weird. All right. Other stuff, we should probably get out of here.

Do the burn book. Sorry, I derailed her fucking show. 21. 21th was bad. Burn book. 1 a.m. We're looking pretty good.

Week 9, we burned Tony Pollard and D.K. Metcalfe, who had great games today. We didn't talk about Pollard. We should probably mention Pollard. Oh, actually, I messed up. I had,

I saved Paula to the end for Burnbook, because I forgot we already burned him. I want to burn him again, even though he had a good week. I want to re-burn him. Why? Wow. Because he had a touchdown finally,

he broke the streak. It's like nice. Still had like 60 rushing yards against the Panthers who were like the worst runy in the league. I actually think the fact that Pollard needed a Herculane

touchdown. Incredible run. Five people like Marshall Lynch. That was a run of a guy who's been listening to the Ringer Fantasy football show for nine weeks. Yes.

And it's like, I'm sick of them. Fuck these guys. My issue is, looked super hard. Like, I just, honestly, like, that was the, like, we're talking about Giants Panthers back to back.

Like, these two, like, games that the Cowboys played that weren't even close. And it was like, all right, congrats. You got like 90 yards and 16 touches. That's your great game. Like, if anything, I feel worse about his ceiling. This is just beginning. We're all, we're taking it to the moon again.

Well, I forgot we did the first time. I kind of just was scrambling when he, D.K. Probably don't need to burn him again. D. D.K., you mentioned a guy today. today when we were talking watching a games who I think we should burn it's freaking Gabe Davis

oh my gosh yeah yeah so two out of the last three games he's had zero points zero catches he's had two catches in his last three games what are we doing I think uh don't that's crazy what's the what's that rewatchfuls right

DK he had he's had 11 catches in his last three games I'm looking at his stateline oh my god no math live on air no sorry you're right I didn't because it's a zero against the jets I thought like that they hadn't played that week yet. So you're right.

It's because he had zero targets too. So I thought it was like a game that had yet to be played. You never mind. You're correct. We'll also keep this in the pod. Don't worry. They're not going to populate it ever, Craig. It's always going to stay how it is.

It's also it's not two cad. It's tooth. Tooth. Zeroeth. So Gabe Davis has gone 080-1911. That's so bad. Dalton Kincaid is here and now they don't need Gabriel Davis to have any targets. He market corrected him.

Yes. Dude, Khalil Shakir market corrected Gabe Davis. I'm not kidding. Like, Khalil Shakur is better than Gabe. He's been better. I'm already ready to say that. Speaking of dudes who can't catch Gabe Davis. Gabe Davis is so going to be on the Cowboys in like two years.

Doing the Michael Gallup thing. Yes. They're going to get rid of Gallup and it's going to be Gabe Davis. It's going to be the exact same thing. Can we get a memento tattoo that's like, Like, just never, I don't care if you scored four touchdowns at the playoffs. That says that too. But that game, see, this is the problem because he looked awesome in that game.

You know what I mean? Yeah, the Chiefs quarterback sucked. They just kept targeting the same guy. It's more about that guy. Gabe Davis, you're in the book. Oh, all right. Burnbook's back, baby, Mean Girls. Dalton Kincaid looks great.

Oh, yeah, dude. All right, Craig. What's the deal with this Mean Girls? So the Mean Girls reboot is back. Yeah. It's not a reboot, I don't think. But Lindsay Lohan was in the commercial today. She's not in the movie, though.

But there was a commercial that was like a SpawnCon thing with the, she's not the principal in the movie. She was the principal in the ad today. And I thought it was sponsored by Mean Girls to something else. She's not in the movie? I think she's just helping promote the movie. Tina Fey is in it and playing, I believe, the same teacher characters she played. Some of the characters who are in the movie.

and some of the characters who are in the movie are just promoting the movie pretending to be the movie. It is just Tina Fey and Tim Meadows, I believe, are in the Mean Girls movie. And the characters are the same names. Correct. But they're singing,

but they cut the singing out of the trailer. Yeah, it's called the Wonka. Timothy Chalameh is playing Willie Wonka in a movie coming out in December. That's also a musical, but the first trailer doesn't have any singing in it. This is bad? Wait, it's a musical?

It's a musical. But people don't really know that because I think people hate musical. So they want to brand it as just like a non-musical at first and then kind of slip it in the last second. So why'd they make a musical if people hate musicals? Great question. We'll see how this movie does. It's like draft a guy who can't catch when it's the only thing you need.

You know what people love is when they completely make something totally different than what you're expecting? Is that like when we do a waiver show? This is like the Jalen Waddle for you guys. This is why you guys are so mad at Jalen Waddle. It's like they tried to make him into a musical. This is what not what you're in. expecting. It was sprung on you. Yeah, what's this Gabe Davis zero catch interlude here? The thing with Mean Girls, it doesn't make any sense. It's like, it's a musical. And that's the

differentiator. That's what, like, we'll draw you in. It's like, oh, because the trailer suggested is literally a shot-for-shot remake of the 2004 movie, which has not aged in such a way where it requires, it wasn't made in 1968. I would just go watch Mean Girls. Yeah, which ages, which is ages really well, and it looks great. The only way you can tell it's a musical is because in the little, the logo at the end, there's a little musical symbol in the, in like the G. So can I ask you a serious question? Why did they, like, you'd think they put a lot of thought into like remaking mean girls.

So why did they be like, we're going to greenlight this as a musical? And then later, once they'd made it, they'd be like, yeah, but no one wants to see musicals. Like, so then why did they, did that change? It was a Broadway play and it was really successful. And it was with Renee Rapp, who's playing the- Which is a musical. Yes.

And I think it was so successful. maybe Tina Fey was like, let's write the 2023, let's just convert this into a movie. And they were like, of course, Tina Fey, anything you want, mean girls, let's do it. Remake, we'll make money. And then, I don't know, maybe they're like, maybe this is a strategy among musicals

where it's like, if it's a remake and it's a musical, we will pretend it's not a musical until we can't anymore. I don't know to tell you. I mean, like La La Land's a musical, we knew that was a musical going in. It's like the Mike Davis of plot. I don't know. Yeah, I kind of have no interest in seeing

a shot-for-shot remake of Mean Girls. I like the original one. It's still good. I don't know. TK., do you have thoughts? Have you seen Mean Girls? I've seen Mean Girls. I really like Mean Girls.

I don't think I'll watch this one. Shame. Yeah. There's just a lot of content out there, you know? And there's a lot of stuff on my list I still need to watch. I've never even seen. I haven't even fucking watched Oppenheimer yet. I need to watch that.

You got to get on that. You got to get on that. Oppenheimer's in the way. of me watching Mean Girls. So there's a non-zero chance you watch Mean Girls. Yeah. I understood that reference.

Almost, yeah. Even though I haven't seen the movie, I understood that reference. Yeah. Almost zero chance. That's the best part. Almost zero chance this podcast over. Thank you, D.K., thank you, Craig.

Thank you, Carlis, for producing this episode. Thank you, Lauren. Lauren, who produced Mean Girls the musical. What the fuck, Lauren? God, dude. Lawrence, Inventure of the Toaster Stoodle. Thank you, Three Dog Night. Oh, what's...

Craig? Craig? They sing... They have one really huge song, right? Yeah, it's... Well, you'd probably know it most from the... Shit, what's the movie? Diggler movie?

Boogie Knights. Boogie Knights. Oh, I'm not going to get it. What is it? Mama told me not to come. Oh, that's not the song I'm thinking of. They also sing Joy to the World, which is like their most famous song by a lot.

Oh, and Shambela. J.K., they're not a one-hit wonder. Yes. If it says no thoughts. No, I knew the second, too. I should just go over the Mean Girls movie. Hyfitz can't get over this. I'm just like, why would you make a musical

and then be like, man, but no one likes musicals? I actually fully agree. I don't understand. It's just like, I... I shouldn't say nobody likes musicals. I think musicals have done well. If people like musicals, it's just weird that they've, the people who made the musical

decided everyone likes musicals. That's weird. I think it's odd that they're not marketing it as a musical. That to me feels weird. Email us at Ringer Fantasy Football at gmail.com if you have thoughts of the mean girls thing. All right. I was going to do thank you again. I've been doing that recently. We're just goodbye now. All right, goodbye, everyone.