The Ringer NFL Show - Week 17 Championship Matchups and Questions

Episode Date: December 30, 2022

We kick off our NFL Week 17 preview by discussing the upheaval at the quarterback position this year, the ominous threat of teams benching their starters, the stars you may want to consider sitting, and more. Check out our Week 17 Fantasy Football Rankings for this week's positional rankings, and more! Email us! [e-mail] Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Matt Bellany, founding partner of Puck News, and I'm covering the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. With my new show, The Town, I'm going to take you inside Hollywood with exclusive insight on what people in show business are actually talking about. Multiple times a week, I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know, journalists, insiders, all of whom can break down the hottest topics in entertainment to tell you what's really going on. Listen now. Fantasy football show, my name is Dana Hypatts. I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Coralbeck. If you're wondering in this hellscape of Week 17, who to start, who to sit,

we have our rankings to fantasy football. Dot the ringer.com. We'll also try to tweet out anything helpful. I'm Danny underscore hyphids on Twitter. Just Danny Hyfitts on Twitter. D.K.'s Danny B. Kelly everywhere. Craig is Craig Horlebeck on Twitter. All those are super easy to spell, but just in case.

I'm not going to tweet out anything helpful. I just tweet about the movie Babelon now. That's my new identity. Okay. And the Warriors. And the Warriors. Craig's a fantasy football expert who never tweets about fantasy football

Well sometimes don't Don't completely write me off There we go See the must follow accounts So as always Here on Friday We're doing a vibes check Heading into week 17

Vibes The vibes I don't know if they've been worse They've gotten progressively worse The vibes are appalling I gotta tell you For championship weekend This is it's like scary some of the lineups I'm seeing out there right now.

Just absolutely ridiculous amounts of guys that are either injured, the teams are sitting them, there's a quarterback, like a backup quarterback in. For whatever reason, there's just a million guys that, like, we have huge question marks about this week.

So we're going to try and talk it through it. This is kind of just commiseration with you guys. Misery loves company. We're miserable. You're miserable. We're going to try to make the best of it. It feels like the NFL, like it feels like this is like the old week 17,

even though there's a week after. feels like we've gone back to what we at last year where like this is the last week of the regular season. Most NFL teams are just given up a week early. Yeah. Let's dive into like the specific scenarios. But then yeah, Craig, you're right. Let's come back to that at the end of just like what the hell are we doing here. But first, let's just go through.

Is this even Sunday scarries or is this just like general seasonal depression? I don't even know what this category should be called. A little bit above. Okay, will you, will you shepherd us through the quarterback? Armageddon of week 17. There's some quarterback upheaval in the NFL right now. I think the big one, well, there's multiple things here happening, but let's start with the first one.

The Raiders have benched Derek Carr. And whether you see this as like them just basically protecting him from injuries so they can potentially trade him in the offseason, it feels like this is the end of the Derek Carr era in Las Vegas. Jarrett Sinema starting. And making matters worse, it's against San Francisco, who has like the best defense in the NFL by like a country mile it feels like in the last like month or two. So this is a potential terrible, terrible situation,

not just for people who had Derek Carr, but for people with Tavonte Adams, Darren Waller, what do we do with Josh Jacobs against the best run defense in the NFL? I'm worried about this, you guys. Like, I was honestly talking, we're in a championship. I'm in a championship I co-manage league with Scott Barrett,

and we're thinking about sitting Josh Jacobs, who has been the MVP for us this whole year. We're not going to sit him, but like the discussion's happening kind of deal. Look, these are problems that people should not have to be dealing with. this pisses me the hell off. You should not have to figure out

if you should start the MVP of the fantasy season, most likely Josh Jacobs in your fantasy championship, which is why you're probably in the championship because you have Josh Jacobs. And now he's potentially benchable

because he's going to get 15 carries for 30 yards to the Jarrett Stidham Raiders. Not only that. I'm kind of worried he's not going to get 15 carries because Josh McDaniels when he announced

the Derrick Carr benching, he also sort of vaguely alluded to the idea that some veterans are going to quote unquote take a step back. So he didn't name anybody, but he said some veterans are going to take a step back. What do we do with that information?

Well, I would just like to take a little victory lap here and tell everyone you're welcome for the people who... So we're clamoring for Josh Jacobs that I turned them away from... But no, this is a freaking disaster. It's like... I think Devante, Adam, you still have to play him. Devante was a super professional about it.

Obviously, talk about, you know, record scratch freeze frame. He basically left Green Bank because he was unhappy, but also like, he was like, is Roger's going to stay? I'll go with my guy car. And then that lasts barely four months. So, I mean, my God, this is not what Devante Adams wanted. But I think that you still have to play him because Jared Stidham, if he throws the ball, he's thrown to Devante Adams.

I feel like, right? Well, you have to play him. But even then, but Devante kind of was also awful the previous three weeks, even when Derek Carr was playing. So I was going to say, he's been terrible for three straight weeks. That's the thing. So I guess, again, I think that when in doubt, when you're really, on the fence about something. The advice I try to always give people is like, imagine you get the

decision wrong. And then imagine you did the opposite thing and you also got that decision wrong. And in this world, which one makes you feel dumber? Which I still think that Devante Adams on your bench or Josh Jacobs on your bench and them going off will make you feel dumber than them being in your lineup and going and then playing terribly. But this is so annoying. It's the regret scale. It's like which which player will, which decision will bring you to the least amount of regret is how you should honestly make every decision in fantasy. Yeah, I think for both Adams and Jacobs, and maybe even Waller a little bit too, maybe the saving grace is just that Stidham is probably not going to be pushing the ball

down the field a lot, so maybe he's just like dumping it off to Jacobs. So maybe Jacobs will have a few extra catches this game. Maybe Waller will have some over the middle. Maybe Devante Adams, they'll do a bunch of screens for him, that kind of shit. Like that's what I'm hoping for, I guess, and visualizing because I'm, I am going to be starting, at least Adams and Jacobs. You're starting both Jacobs and Adams. You have to.

Yeah, I think you have to. Because again, can you imagine benching them and them playing well? You can't overthink it. There are plenty of running backs who succeed with shitty quarterbacks all the time. The other one also, Loki is Daniel Carlson, who's been the kicker for the Raiders. If you have him, he's actually been fantastic for you. And it's another one, you've got to play it. But it's like, man, it's pretty easy to see the Raiders not scoring a touchdown until really late.

The real biggest loser, Daniel Carlson. Exactly. Real quick, there's so many. other things, but real quick on the car benching. I think, I think you're right that, uh, this car benching was, it's basically, if he gets hurt and it lingers in the offseason, his $40 million guarantee so that they have to own $40 million. So they're just making sure he's not hurt so that they can like kind of wash their hands of it, trade him, whatever. And we talked to us in the NFL show. And I just was like, how good is Derek Carr? Like, how good is he? And I was wondering what team

he might be on next year. And I love Steven's answer. Stephen was basically like, he's not good enough. Right. Which I actually thought was really good. Yeah. And so it's weird because this is the end of the Derrick car era

and the Raiders. And I know that's, it's, what does that even mean? Like kind of who cares? But I think it's weird that since he entered the league, the Raiders have had the worst EPA per play or just EPA general expected points added for defense and special teams combined. Like everything that's Darikar is not involved in.

They've been the worst team in the entire league. No support. So we got, but also the flip side, though, He's the only quarterback since I have been an adult where opposing defenses have openly questioned his toughness. Like, I will never forget Joey Bosa before a Monday night game openly being like Derek Carr is soft when you hit him. When you hit him, he goes, haywire.

And then like he kind of was. And like openly questioned quarterback's toughness is wild. And you know, it's funny is we're talking to the NFL show. When Derek Carr gets hit, he becomes Kunu or Kunu doing the surfing lessons with Jason. and Siegel's trying to surf. Fuck the lemons and bail. Yeah, no, not even that. It's like, you're doing too much.

You're doing too little. Now you're not doing anything at all. He gets hit. He becomes Alex Smith because he's just trying to check down and not get hit. Then he gets mad at himself for being Alex Smith and he becomes Carson Wentz. Then he just chucks a pick or whatever. Yeah. So.

I'm very interested to see where he ends up. A lot of people do in the photoshopps of him in the Indianapolis Colts uniform, which I could absolutely see. I mean, based on what the Colts have done the past four years, that feels the most likely. However, there's a lot of teams that need quarterbacks. I mean, he could, like, wherever Tom Brady goes, he can go to the box, he can go to the Jets.

Yeah. There's a lot of options. I like him on the Jets. I actually think Derek Carr is, like, very serviceable and any fan base should be happy to get a quarterback like him in, like, this summer. If the Steelers got rid of Kenny Pickett for Derek Carr, I wouldn't be upset. Bill once said that Kirk Cousins should be like an automatic quarterback

who goes to all these teams with terrible quarterbacks for one year and then leaves, because if you have bad quarterback and get Kirk Cousins for one year, you'll be happy with it. Derek Carr is right there. And Derek Carr could do that. Kirk Cousin's own. All right.

Well, we'll have a lot of car. But yeah, so play the Raiders if you got them. Yeah. All right, Dika, continue with our quarterback Armageddon, please. All right. So the next one here, Tua is in concussion protocol. He suffered a concussion last week. Midway through the game and then they didn't quite realize it.

So this is a scary situation, obviously, for Tua. But in terms of going forward for the dolphins, Teddy Bridgewater is now a starter. And the question becomes like two of the top receivers in fantasy all year long, how much do we drop them? I don't think there's any question you're sitting these guys, but obviously it's not ideal.

So just bringing up the Tyreek and Waddell thing as something like, how much do we want to downgrade them, if any? How do you guys feel about this vibes-wise? I feel unconcerned, to be honest. I think it's the offense that drives to Tyreek and Waddle's success more than is the quarterback.

And Teddy's extremely serviceable, has kept fantasy players afloat in the past. I don't think this is a huge issue. I would drop these guys a spot or two. At the Patriots. This will be an interesting game, actually. If the Dolphins went out, they're in the playoffs.

If the Dolphins lose out, they're out of the playoffs. So, man, they need to win this game. Also, we should all be rooting against the Patriots, because the Patriots are the least fun team to watch maybe the entire NFL. Right. They literally might be dead last in terms of do I want. Even the Texans are more fun to watch than the Patriots. I mean, I don't want to watch them.

That's brutal. In the postseason. All right. next one. Carson Wentz keeps the job for Washington starting over Taylor Heineckee. The big question here is the style, like, you know, the style of quarterback that Carson Wentz is. Basically, if you look at what's happened this season, Carson Wentz has absolutely peppered Curtis Samuel while avoiding Terry McLaren. Terry McLaren's target rate with Taylor Heineke, 29%. His target rate with Carson Wentz so far this year is about 14%. It's,

It's like his production drops off precipitously with Carson Wentz starting. And once Carson once came into the game, only one of his past attempts went to Terry McLaren out of 16. So this is, I feel like we're back to this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but early in the season, weren't you like every time Terry McLaurin catches a pass, it feels like a fucking miracle? Yes, that was born out of the Wend's quarterback situation. We're back to that now. I actually hate this call. I think it's lame from the commanders.

They were two and four with Wents. they're what, five, three and one or something with Heineke. He embodies the team so much better. He's way grittier. Wentz is so unlikable. Everywhere he goes, he fails. I think this is such a lame decision for a team that has a legitimate shot to make the playoffs and be frisky. And they get rid of the guy who brought them there.

I think this is so lame. I agree. Because you know why Taylor Heineke is that guy that you hate him if he's not on your team, but if he's on your team, he's your guy. Carson Wentz is the guy that actually everyone hates him on your team, not on your team. Everyone hates this guy. Yeah. Yeah.

I really, this is a terrible move, in my opinion. I think for fantasy, I actually think, considering all the upheaval this week, Jahan Dotson is actually one of the safer plays. Because when Carson Wence was play,

I mean, he's been great with Taylor Honeick the last few weeks, but when Carson Wence was playing, Jahan Dotson started his career with like four touchdowns or three touchdowns, first two games because Wence is just like chucking it up and Dotson's like excellent at the 50-50 balls. And so I think Wets,

Dawson's fine. Curtis Samuel is playable. I'm not as excited about that. Dude, Terry McLaurin is like three notches below Devante where we're like, you should probably play him. However,

if you want to bench Terry, I completely understand. I mean, there's going to be a lot of teams out there that I think actually do have better options, or at least somewhat similar options. And this to me is like the tiebreaker. I have at least one league where I'm benching him.

It's just as long as you know that you're being too cute and you need to be prepared for like, yeah. hating yourself, it's not insane. It's just out there. This is against Cleveland, too, which has been a bit of a run funnel. Like, right?

Like, I would not be surprised if Brian Robinson just has a massive game because it sounds like Antonio Gibson's hurt. He hasn't practiced as of Thursday. This is probably going to be a big week for Brian Robinson. It wouldn't surprise me too much if the past catchers didn't do a whole lot in this game. So we'll see.

I agree. I completely agree. Okay. The one ray of sunshine in this. This is a good thing. We wanted to, you know, throw this in because there's going to be a few more that we're not feeling great about here. Mike White is back for the Jets, which is good for everyone, immeasurably good for everyone. Obviously, you know, with Zach Wilson in there, this offense completely like just falls apart.

Every time any other quarterback literally off the street comes in, the offense starts humming again. Like, he is the ultimate cooler for fantasy, for real life football, all that. So it's just good to see Mike White back. he's more aggressive down the field. He's willing to let it rip in the middle of the field. He just knows what he's looking at. He can dissect a defense a lot better than Zach Wilson was. I don't think he's, you know, an elite quarterback by any means,

but he definitely, you know, facilitates fantasy production. They have passed way, way more with him under center. So this is great. Again, Zach Wilson is D from It's Always Sunny. And they're like, a monkey could do your job. And then they replace D with a monkey. And they replaced Zach Wilson with Chris Trevler. And he starts marching down the field.

Literally, anyone. can do this. Dude, the splits are staggering if you look at Garrett Wilson without Mike White and with Zach Wilson. It's embarrassingly bad. So this is great for Garrett Wilson. The running back

situation I think is better. Zonovan Knight has had a much higher target rate when Mike White is in there because he's just willing to chuck it down. Mike White is like one of the best at just checking it down. And he just keeps the gears moving kind of deal in the offense. And then I think Elijah Moore becomes sort of like a flexible option in this just because he's been a lot better with Mike White.

And they're playing Seattle in Seattle. So this could kind of be like a secret fun fantasy matchup where a lot of guys go off. Tyler Lockett's supposed to be back. Yep. All right. Next up, Colt McCoy is back for Arizona. Actually, this is another good one. This is kind of enormous for DeAndre Hopkins.

It's worse that Kyler's gone. Right. And then you were mad that Kyler was out. But then it got so much worse that you were like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. it's honestly with George barely. I'm like, I like the life I had before. Yeah, so this is great news for DeAndre Hopkins, Marquis Brown. I don't know if it changes anything for James Connor

because he's just going to get all the carries and all the targets anyway. But yes, it's good for the offense overall. They're playing Atlanta. So in theory, they could score some points in this game. But I'm feeling a lot better about DeAndre Hopkins this week than it was last weekend. And that's the short of it. The other thing about DeAndre Hopkins, if you're at any gun shy at all about playing, DeAndre Hopkins.

The one thing I'll say is there are certain receivers like Terry McLaurin who are fine, not getting the ball. I love DeAndre Hopkins. He's got an amazing story. I will say, I don't think there's a single receiver in the NFL more comfortable demanding the football before, during and after the game than Hopkins.

And Colt McCoy didn't stick around the NFL for like 12 years by like not being a smart guy. He knows where Brett is buttered. Yeah. Play Hopkins. I know he was awful last week. Played DeAndre Hopkins. I think the question is Marky's Brack.

who was really good before Hopkins came back and they got hurt. He's fine. I'm nervous about him. I'm sitting him if I don't have to play him. I think he's good and I think he, there were some rumors. I don't know if it was confirmed anywhere, but there's some rumors that he like missed a practice or missed him.

It was late for a meeting last week and so he didn't play quite as many snaps last week as we were expecting. But that's kind of, I don't know, like he's a little bit, he's a little bit boom robust. You know, that's just kind of who he is as a player. So, like, if I have a better option or if I have a similar option, I'm playing that option over Marquise Brown this week. Yeah, we have them just outside of our top 36 and our ranking. He's our wide receiver 37, which feels right.

It's also why Craig wasn't on the NFL draft show yesterday. He's late for a meeting. And it's like, you know what? They cut me. I was hanging out with Marquise. Good to teach him a lesson. Well, yeah, see, he's back. Don't over read it.

All right. Next up, this is going back to the bad stuff. Nick Foles is, Jeff Saturday's sticking with Nick Foles after all that. I don't know what's going on with this quarterback situation in Indy. Not much, really. But Nick Foles was unbelievably bad in this last game. Horrific. He completed 17 passes for 143 yards with three picks.

Jalani Woods was the leading receiver with 43 yards. Michael Pittman is a really, really, it's the hardest decision that I think that we've talked about today. Yeah. Yeah. I actually think. Well, here's the thing. If you're not going to play him, you might as well cut Michael Pittman. You know what I mean?

That's crazy to say. But it's like, if you're, if you've decided in your head, like, I can't play this. guy, just let him go. I mean, there's only one week left, so it doesn't really matter. But I actually think that if you kind of can dig deep into the waiver wire, like, I would start just going through like a guy like Josh Palmer, like Isaiah Hodgins, Donovan People's Jones, maybe, George Pickens. I think I'm starting to all those guys over Michael Pittman, man.

What a down year for him. If they get a quarterback, if Derek Carr goes to Indy, I'm going to be so back on Michael Pitman. It was upset. The entire Colts offense collapsed because Pitman's like the poster before it. But don't forget the first month when Jonathan Taylor, he did a good first week. And then the next month, like weeks two through six, he was like outside the top 30 running backs. Like the offense imploded in a way like, I don't think we gave too much credence to like how the offensive line, the running game, the past protection, everything just imploded under Matt Ryan and how cooked he was and everything has been a disaster ever since.

So yeah, Pittman, I kind of look at him with like, it. In a non-health wake, similar to Marquis Brown, where it's like you can play them if you have no better options, but do you really want to go down with this shit? No. And the short answer for me is no. You'll feel like an idiot. After just having watched it on national television last week,

Foles collapse and Pittman do nothing against a charger secondary that's, you know, not that formidable. I don't know. You know why, as we were just saying, you know what rule this violates to play Michael Pittman? Every time Michael Pittman gets the ball. Miracle. Feels like a goddamn man.

I'm going to make my miracle rankings next August. We should do miracle rankings. That's pretty good. Oh, we could do a scale of miracles, too. Wow, the miracle scale, one to ten. Yeah, that's a good idea. I like that. Well, like when you, like, when you're driving,

like one is like you're driving home late at night and you don't know if you can get a parking spot, boom, right in front of your building. And 10 is like, I don't know, I guess, you know, Easter. 10 is like Nick Foles throws through out of Turin. Nick Foles just threads one to Michael Pittman in the corner of it ends on. That's a 10. Exactly. just ate Hanukkah, obviously.

But that's good, actually. Emails at ringer fantasy football at gmail.com if you have miracles for the miracle scale. We'll do that later. All right. And then there's more. This is not news necessarily, but like it doesn't look like Lamar Jackson's going to play again this week,

which is not great news for the Ravens' offense at large. You know, Mark Andrews has really struggled to play the run game. It's hard to predict what's going on with this run game because Gus Edwards, J.K. Dobbins, and they even got Justice Hill a little bit involved this last week. Dobbins, I think, is still just up and down in terms of, like, his overall health. And Gus Edwards has looked like the best running back so far on this team right now. So I don't know what to do with any of this offense, to be totally honest with you.

I don't really trust Huntley either. This is also a miracle game. Mark Andrews is like if Michael Pittman were a tight end. And like the difference is tight end is such a bad position. And Mark Andrews is so talented. you're like, well, I got to roll the dice in Mark Andrews. But here's the thing. When Mark Andrews has had Tyler Huntley a quarterback,

he's basically just been Cade Otton for the bucks. Like he literally is averaging three catches a game for 36 yards a game. That's like, rough. He's basically, like Mark Andrews, I think would be the second or third best tight end on the Lions in the last month with Tyler Huntley.

And so again. Behind one of the Zilster brothers. Yeah, what are you going to do, cut Mark Andrews and play Shane Zilstra? No. Are you going to cut Mark Andrews and play Kate Outen? Absolutely not.

Should you play Gerald Everett over Mark Andrews? No! Gerald Everett literally had zero points last week. I know. But I do think Mark, I mean, we have them outside of top 10. The problem is, is that the waiver wire right now for tight ends is not good. So you don't even, like everybody, it's already solidified. Everybody has two tight ends because tight ends is such a wasteland every year.

Everybody has their starter and a backup already on their roster. So if you're not thrilled with Mark Andrews and you want to try and dig into the waiver wire, there's like nobody you can add that you can actually make the case to start over him. So you're probably just going to have to start. Well, I think the question is people who are available. Evan Ingram? There's no way Evan Ingram is available. He's gone. There's no way. No, but he's not gone, but like you may have added him. Yes. If you have a backup on your team who's been good, obviously, but I'm saying like, if you don't have. Tyler Higby. Tyler Higby. Yeah. Higby is not a good example. Yeah. Well, Hi Fitz, you brought up

Evan Ingram, which is a good segue, because I'm a little worried about how much Evan Ingram is going to play. This is the. this is the ominous threat of teams resting starters this week. This is the kind of bullshit you have to deal with late in the season when. So I think there's a very, very slight chance the Jags could, this game could be meaningful for the Jags. Otherwise, it's like basically week 18. It's Jags versus Titans.

The winner goes to playoffs. Like, there's a very small chance that if the Jags win this week, they could still get into the playoffs with like a wild card spot based on a bunch of other shit that has to happen the next two weeks. But the bottom line is, we're not 100% sure that the Jags are going to play their starters for the full game

or kind of play it safe, get these guys healthy, all that stuff. So Evan Ingram, despite the fact that he's been like legitimately one of the best tight ends in the NFL over the last month, if not the best in fantasy,

you know, I think I'm still a little bit like, not worried necessarily, but there's just a seat of doubt in the back of my mind that he's like even going to play the whole game. So the Jaguars, I want to come back to the Jaguars,

but I want to start with the Titans. So again, you'll listen to it's Friday. Stuff's already happened. Right. But it's worth talking about because the Titans, we're recording this Thursday afternoon. The Titans have basically kind of already packed up

and mailed it in for Thursday night because they have this bizarre, bizarrely rare situation where their second to last game of the season for Tennessee is meaningless because the only thing that matters is if the Titans win against Jacksonville in their final game of the season,

they're in the playoffs and win the division. And if they lose, lose against Jacksonville the next week. They are out of the playoffs. And so they literally are based, they shut down Derek Henry, which again, if you have Derek Henry,

what did epically bad be? So you have Derek Henry in the finals and they're like, yeah, well, we just don't need him this week. We're going to play him next week. That's literally the opposite. It's supposed to be week 18

where guys are getting benched. That's crazy. And then their, Malik Willis is not even starting. I don't know if that's because Mike Vrabble hates Mike Malik Willis. My first thought was that, but honestly, they're playing Josh Jobs.

He's been there for two weeks. weeks. Yeah. He's like barely. He's thrown like 20 passes in his life. I kind of think they're buttoning up, like Willis to get practice him for this game in two weeks. So that's bizarre.

If you have a Titans, that's such a bad B. Obviously, Titans already played, so this doesn't help you. For the Jags, though, there's a huge difference to me between literally no benefit to playing in week 17 and 100% of the benefit week 18,

which is the Titan situation. Even the 6% chance the Jacksonville has, I think matters a great deal for their, competitive this. Yeah, I think you're probably right. And I'm still starting Evan Ingram, to be clear, but I think it's just a little bit worrisome. Doug Peterson did come out and say, never, ever, ever, ever. You play to win every game. The only way I rest players is if they're hurt and can't go. So that's moderately like reassuring. Christian Kirk, Travis ECN, Zey Jones, Evan Ingram. I think they're all goes, but this is something that we've been like

sort of worrying about this week. Lawrence, too. Yeah. Yeah, Trevor Lawrence, obviously, too. Yeah. Yeah, I think the Jaguars also, quite frankly, they've been playing too well to bench those guys. I think they're going to roll. The other thing that, the other one that I'm monitoring this week

that is a little bit worrisome is the Chargers situation. So the Chargers have clinched a playoff berth, and they'll either be the five, six, or seven seeds. So there's not like a lot at stake here. And Austin Echler banged up his knee in this last game. He's been limited, I believe, in practice this week. So there's this worry that not only will dare,

Henry be not playing this week, but Austin, the Chargers might sit Austin Echler this week, just to get him healthy for next week. So to wrap this all up, three of the top five fantasy running backs this week, Josh Jacobs, Austin Echler, and Derek Henry might, two of them just straight up might not play, and the other one is playing with Jared Stitton on a team that essentially said we give up. So I hope everybody's happy. This is the shooter McGavin. This man is ruining golf.

I hate all of this. I can't believe this is not how it's supposed to be. people are starting Hassan Haskins and figuring out if they should play Devante Adams in their championship every running back is questionable because you don't know if their team is in a meaningless game or not

Should fantasy just end at week 16 now? I want to remove any possibility that this happens So maybe I guess it's now two weeks where teams start to bench players because it doesn't matter So maybe we just move everything up to week 16 I think

So here's the thing The short answer is no Why? Because the NFL has made because the buy weeks go till week 14. That's also like, well, that's stupid too. But as long as we're complaining, we got to change that shit too.

I think in the long term history of the NFL, this 17 game stretch will kind of be like this weird. It's like the bridge quarterback of scheduling where they had the 16 game thing forever and they wanted to go to 18. And so now we're caught flat-footed in like, how long are they going to do 17 games for? Probably 5, 10 years and then they're going to go to 18.

but like I think that they're already scheduling buys to kind of prep for like an eight like an 18 game season but we're kind of caught where it's like if the buys go to week 14 you can't have buys in the playoffs man like you cannot get to the playoffs and then you know you're starting quarterback you're starting running back around by and you have to replace them and then you lose the playoffs like are you fucking kidding me that's absolutely ridiculous we've already kind of gone away from I think the format a lot of people liked because of this of like four week playoff

and you play someone for two weeks and then you play a championship at two weeks And people like that. And that's already dead because of the bi-week thing. If you move the finals a week up, then what are you going to do playoff-wise? You either have buys in the playoffs or have a two-week system. Like, it's terrible.

I have fewer teams in the playoffs. Yeah, two-week playoffs. Or I don't know, man. Like, to be honest, at least you can plan around knowing that your player is going to be on buy in week 14. Like, at the very least, you can at least say that.

You can't plan on the Raiders benching Derek Carr in week 17. And now Josh Jacobs is irrelevant. So here's the, here's the thing. On one hand, I think weird stuff happens all the time. I will say this. Kevin Clark has talked about this for a couple years. The elimination, the reason that we're in this situation is like,

I mean, the reason that fantasy originally cut off that last week of the season was, it felt like it formally happened because the cults kept getting a top seat in the NFC so often that Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison became like irrelevant in the fantasy championship. And people were like, we got to stop this. We're not doing the final week of the season anymore. more. And so now the NFL has obviously added two spots to the playoffs and then that team, the new team, plays the two seed. And now instead of four teams getting a buy, it's in the playoffs, is just two. The problem that this is inadvertently created, what the NFL wanted other than just

another playoff game to make money, they also were hoping it would make the end of the season more competitive because they actually also kind of wanted fewer teams, you know, resting more teams competing for the playoffs. I think what this is actually done is it's completely removed the difference between a lot of these seats. Exactly. Like teams don't care.

When you're locked in to, like the Niners, there's only one guy. One. Yeah. It's like you're either just playing for home field. And so in the Chargers situation, they're on the road. They don't care.

Like, does it really matter? Well, I don't know. It feels like an unintended, unintended consequence of like. I mean, if the Chargers is, Burgers are the five seed, they get to play Tennessee or Jacksonville, and if they're the six seed, they have to play the Bengals. So it does matter a little bit. But in general, I think your point is right.

Teams now, because there's so many teams that make the playoffs and so little that are on buys, so many teams now know earlier than they normally would if they're in or not. And now they can just like take their foot off the gas for the final two weeks of the season. And Kevin's talked about how McVeigh and got your brother, Sean McVeigh. I think this is accurate. Increasing to look at the playoffs like March Madness. And if you, I mean, honestly, last year. playoffs, I think were the perfect example of that. The Bengals were a flawed team that played great defense that had two like otherworldly stars. You just got to get hot. Kind of just take

over. Yeah. It's like they were absolutely blistering hot for that playoff run. And they almost won the circuit ball. Like people, I think people underrate actually how Aaron Donald stopped. Like the Bengals were probably going to score on that last drive. I think it's almost underrated how close the Bengals actually did come to winning that Super Bowl. But I don't know. I think it's strange. I don't, I hate buys in the playoffs, but I will admit that this is a problem. Like, Derek Henry just, I don't think any of us ever anticipated teams benching players for week six, for week 17 to keep them healthy for week 18. But I don't know if we'll see it again either. The NFL needs to help us out. The NFL has, the fantasy football has given so

much to the NFL. They make every boring random Thursday night game relevant. Because people have their fantasy players. Like, yeah, it's a small portion, but it is a portion of why the NFL is so successful, I feel like, is fantasy fucking football. And now it's ruined everybody's championship weekend. Yeah, it's infuriating. I don't know. They got to get rid of week 14 buys. I know.

That's just ridiculous. Here, yeah. There's a flip side we're not discussing here, which is, it's actually great. Because now, if you win, you still feel like a champion but if you lose you'll think of all the things you can blame built in hedge so many

how nice is that all the championships that I'm like I'm not I'm only in one of them but the championships in my leagues when you look at them they're so lopsided this year it's like the Peyton Manning Rex Grossman's Super Bowl it's not even fun

there's like teams where it's like there's like a 25 point difference in the projections everything is screwed up yeah but last week all those teams lost like if you look last week if you had had the player like the Broncos

were like unanimously a top one or two ranked defense than ever, you know what I mean? Like McCaffrey had like Tyree Kale like you could Justin Fields you could build a roster last week we could have just guys ranked in the top three at their position that like you would have lost I think you would have been like the lowest scoring guy

in your league. I think we're also upset. It's kind of just all piling on at once because the weather of the last two weeks really screwed a lot of things up. Now this weird week 17 situation where like the Jags and Titans don't have to play players

and like the Chargers might sit Austin Eckler the Derek Carr thing is like kind of abnormal. It's been a really bizarre last three weeks and it's really tossed a massive wrench in fantasy. No one cares about us. On that note, on that note, talk about history of being. What cares about us?

No, I can't. But the last year, Justin Jackson was like a league tilting player because he just replaced Austin Echler when he had COVID last year and just had 30 points in the playoffs. I will say, I think Austin Nekra plays in this game. I also don't think Austin Nucker gets his normal workload. If you have that clear, playing him, I actually think Josh Kelly is a super fine flex.

Like, if you want to add Josh Kelly and you have, like, other awful options, I wouldn't say play, Josh Kelly over Michael Pitman, but I would not blink an eye, I would not bat an eyelash if Josh Kelly outscored Michael Pittman this week. I would put it that way. Yeah. I'm not saying do that, but you can think about it. I'm taking a very fatalistic approach to this week. I'm just like, eh, like, I don't care what happened. It's like nihilism or whatever. Just like, I feel like I'm going to lose. I think that's just D. K's approach to everything now. Don't you? It's just my emotional hedging, I think, really. I don't care. I don't fucking care. D. D. K's just like driving on

the other side of the road now. He's like, whatever. ever. Oh, man. Dick hasn't worn a seatbelt in 10 years. He's like, there's no traffic on the other side of the road. Who cares? If it's fate, it's fate, you know. All right.

Well, now that we're done, actually, now I'll complain about something else. We usually give the weird flex but okay award to a player. I just want to quickly shout out and give this award to an actual game because NBC flexed Ravens Steelers to Sunday into football. Dude, did Tyler Huntley Ravens? Who are the playoff team in this situation against the Steelers who are like literally alive, but it's more like haven't been eliminated than they are like, you know, it's... What was the game before? It was Rams Chargers.

And they had to get out of Rams Chargers. Ironically, that game would be more interesting now that they blew out the Broncos, but they had to get out of it because the Rams looked awful. People love Baker Mayfield. Well, you need a, you need two teams alive for the playoffs. That's essentially what you need. So the problem was Packers Vikings would have made more sense, but CBS protected it. Buck's Panthers would have been disgusting somehow.

Box protected it. So they wouldn't, it's kind of like keepers or something. Thank God, we don't have to watch that. My God. So CBS was, sorry,

NBC had a pick between like Pat's Dolphins and Ravens Steelers and my God. I guess don't make you watch the Patriots. My eyes will bleed. But I just think it's crazy that two weeks to go in the season and like we're going to be watching Kenny Pickett versus Tyler Huntley. And they got to choose that.

Weird flex. Indeed. It's going to be a battle. Pitt's still alive. Baltimore has just been winning every week by like three in the ugliest game imaginable. I can't believe that team is 10, 5 and 1. No. Or 10 and 5.

They're the easiest, like, fade on WildCard weekend I've ever seen. All right. Next here, I did want to mention, if things didn't weren't bleak enough, all of the teams that are actually playing their starters. A lot of them are banged up this week. A lot of guys that you've been relying on all year are banged up. A lot of difficult decisions, a lot of questionable tags. Tyler Lockett's coming back from the finger.

You know, I don't love a receiver getting surgery like a week ago on his hand. and you're relying on him and your championship, that's something you've got to deal with. Aaron Jones has this knee issue. He really hasn't been playing much like in December. He's playing like under 50% of snaps last week. He hasn't looked good, but he's probably going to play.

You know, another guy like Alvin Camara has been pretty bad in the second half of the season. He had a good week last week, but, you know, the weather played a role in that. He actually missed this week for personal reasons. People don't know or missed practice on Wednesday for personal reasons. And Thursday. Yeah.

And people are thinking because he's mad about not playing on third downs. So that's not a great situation. You have Amari Cooper who's in battle in his hip injury and he's been terrible with Deshaun Watson, but in general he's been pretty good this year. If Ramandre Stevenson and Kenneth Walker both battling ankle injuries, Remondre had that one great game, but other than that, he's been horrible in December. It's a really, really tough sledding for a lot of these guys that have been starting for you all year. It's been such a depressing pod.

Well, fantasy increasingly feels like Star Wars when they're like, how do you navigate an asteroid field? Man, and everybody has... Never tell me the odds. Did you guys listen to Bill and Sal from this week? Like, I swear, every single person I know says, why do we play fantasy football every December? My brother...

Not everyone. Nine of ten or ten or ten. Nine and ten or eleven out of those people, yeah. But man... It's like, wow, this is great. We all do it. It's always like week 14. Your team is like decimated by injuries.

You lose by like 50 and against us. game and you're like, man, this just ruined my Sunday. Fuck this. Your spouse is mad at you because you're like yelling at the TV and you're, that was like Craig having a bunch of like vague things and then that at the end sounded super personal. No, I'm not married yet. See, so it's not about me.

If I said fiance's mad at you. Yeah. Dead giveaway. Clearly somebody different. Flex. All right. Don't try and turn this around on us. If it's come on.

Yeah, dude. You guys want to do an email? Let's do an email. All right, this one's from Michael. Michael. Gentlemen, in our 12 team league, we do scoring out to two decimal places. And for the first time in the history of our 20-year league, we have a tie in the playoffs. Wow.

We have a tie in the semi-final. Especially for playoffs or not, they've never had a tie in any situation. And as a result, we have no tie breakers because it's never a tie. happened. He says it's a dereliction of duty for a commissioner, but here we are. The commission's solution has been to just replay the week

in week 17 and then postpone the championship to week 18. Horrific idea. Fire that commissioner now. Yes. What are we talking about? Can we impeach him? Make a bad situation worse. As if

you didn't have to deal with enough players and teams benching their starters. Let's wait one more week. Well, the most unbelievable part of this email is that because obviously people were like, you know, trying to impeach the commissioner, calling the commissioner corrupt. The commissioner, they actually got to make fun of the commissioner, they got a cameo from Tim Donegie, the NBA referee at the heart of the NBA, like the corruption. And so they got a video, a cameo $40.99 for Tim Donagie, bizarre number. And they got a cameo of Tim Donagie, defending the commissioner.

I don't know. Well, I don't know he's going right. It's less than he used to make. But Tim Donegie literally just did this cameo and Tim Donagy's like, hey, commissioner, you're doing great. None of this is shady. I don't think anything was sitting under the rug. I think you're doing great.

You know, just plow on, you know, nothing to see here, which I thought was incredible. So shout out Tim Donegie, $40. $0.99 for a cameo. Isn't that weird? Have you ever seen anything priced like that in your life? It's $39.99 or 40. 41 just sounds like too much. No one is having, no one is upset about paying 41 versus 40.

That's not, that's not like what changes your mind, you know? Right. Do you think when people were like approaching Tim Donagy to like maybe throw NBA games that he asked for a number and they were like, why did that? What a strange number. So I have a solution. Do you guys have like tiebreaker rules that you and your leagues like to use? I think so.

Overall score from the season is a good tiebreaker. Yeah, so overall points for... Michael suggested a couple ones. I kind of thought his ideas were dumb. I think the easiest answer is the bench. Whoever's bench scored more should win. That's it. I would do something that's forward-looking

that requires both managers to then compete again to show off, you know, how skilled they are. I think they should have to do a daily fantasy lineup for like the Thursday night game and the winner moves on. That's a fun idea. I like that one.

That is actually a great idea. Yeah. Because I like the idea of... It's no fun. to be like, well, Andrew scored more points so he's in. I mean, it's just, it's so deflating. Like, it takes all fun and competition out. That's a very fun idea. I like that. I think that's

a really good idea. That's actually perfect, Craig. You know why? The other, the only other forward-looking option, because I think pushing off the championship a week is ridiculous. You think we're mad about week 17. Imagine week 18. But the, the only other forward-looking option is to say, well,

whoever's lineup does better, they advance. And then they they play the, but that screws over the guy who won the other one. Like he used to play two teams and hope he beats both. Oh, I see. Like, you have both teams play in week 17. Whichever team was better is the one that qualifies

for the championship happening at the same week. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But I think you're right. Because the other options, it's like we invented a tiebreaker. It already happened. You lost is pretty deflated. That's awful. That's actually perfect. The Thursday night. Well, it's tough. Unfortunately, this podcast is coming out on Friday, so there is no game.

Well, no, we can email them back. You know, email them back. I'll email them. You better hurry. Yeah, we're recording. It's 1 o'clock PM Pacific right now on Thursday. Got four hours to get this shit done. Doesn't that fun though?

I think that's a really good wrinkle. Yes. Another idea, in addition to this, is just bet on a different sport. Is anything else going on right now? There's like bowl games. Bull games. But I like that this still just tests out your fantasy football skills. Yes.

Like, all right. You both have $10,000. Pick a daily fantasy lineup. Mm-hmm. can you imagine how invested you would be in that fucking football game this awful titans cowboys game you are going to be so locked in and someone's like josh dobs oh god josh dubs is my MVP of this game noah brown is going to catch a touchdown in like the fourth quarter is going to change everything good god oh my god that's incredible what would your dFS

line up be in a head to head where one of the teams is josh dobbs not josh dubs i mean i guess you just do all cowboys you you honestly probably do And the winning team is going to be like... Casascon Haskin. Whichever random Dallas wide receiver catches the touchdown. If you get that pick correct, you win, probably. It's true.

Wow. Good idea, Craig. I like that. God's a good one. All right. Well, we'll see. Hopefully they did it. That's incredible.

All right. Craig, do you want to give a programming update for the next few weeks? Yeah, sure. So next week we're going to be coming back with a Monday show. We'll wrap up, you know, the fantasy regular season.

We'll give awards out, just like we typically do on Mondays. There's no waivers because week 18. And then the fantasy rewatchables on Wednesday next week. We're going to continue with our NFL draft show, which is on Thursdays. And then following that, we'll be coming at you for two shows a week, one to wrap up playoffs and one to talk NFL draft.

So twice a week through January. And then we'll see what happens after that. Boom. And also while Craig's giving programming updates, I want to give an update. Craig sent us Christmas gifts to DK&I like a week ago. Nice young man.

And Craig kept asking us when the packages came. You call me Cress. That's fine. Whatever you want. Cress? Yeah, watercress. And Craig kept being like, it might go bad. It might expire. And we were like, what the hell are you saying?

I think it was human flesh because Craig's really. So you guys puppies. I forgot to poke holes in the boxes. God. Jesus. I already have a puppy. I can't handle another one. It finally arrived.

Yeah. And Craig sent us banana bread. that he made. Yeah. Which if you heard earlier this year, Craig actually revealed that he bakes all the time. Well,

not all the time, but D.K. was baffled. I, like, randomly mentioned, I was telling some story, and I mentioned that I made banana bread, and D.K.

was confounded by that. He was like, you bake? And I was like, yeah, sometimes. And I said, you know,

the key to my, keeping my banana bread moist and delicious is Greek yogurt. And I mix in dark chocolate with, I do like two-thirds dark chocolate, one-third milk, because I think too much milk

is, like, too sugary. And, yeah. I was nervous, though, because I had to mail this shit to Washington, D.C., and to Seattle, and obviously weather this week has been a disaster, so both got delayed. I was terrified it was going to go bad, but luckily, you know, the bomb cyclone was cold enough to keep this banana bread cold in transit, and it showed up to Hyvitz's place today, and it seems to have held up. Hyphus was eating it during the pot. He's eating it right now. Yeah.

I'm literally eating, yeah. If there's, like, weird sounds I made during this pot, it's because it's just chewing. It's so good. I got to tell you, if it sucked or was stale, I would. tell you. It's phenomenal. I'm sad to report that your week old banana bread you mailed from literally 3,000 miles away was much better than mine. Fresh out the oven. I had just come out of the oven. I can't believe I'm moist. It's the dark chocolate. Yeah. It's a phenomenal touch. It's a much more like rich complex than like just the regular semi-sweet. I don't know what the hell the Greek

yogurt does, but that actually works. It's this is incredible. I'm very impressed. Thank you. And my girlfriend, Flex, was also very impressive. D.K.'s was delayed. Apologies. I haven't gotten mine yet for the record. It should be here today. I would be showering you with compliments, I'm sure. Yeah.

Yes. Don't give any to George. Not supposed to have chocolate. It's so good. Wow. Craig, I'm very impressed. You're a man of many talents. Thank you.

All right. Merry Christmas. We all... Let's look at D. The big hat from Brian Robinson that never got. I know. Oh, my God. That would have been amazing.

I'm so upset. It was a number one bad, big hat. I got to figure what happened with that. Oh, man. Oh, they owe me money. Oh, my God. Just a bunch of, like, mail, ugh. I feel like there's been multiple times we've tried to mail each other sports paraphernalia,

and it's just not work. We tried to mail, we tried to mail Craig a San Diego State jersey. Kauai Leonard. Kaui Leonard. And it just never showed up. We have a trace mixed. Yeah, we have a trace mixed sorely like completion percentage on our game. There's some guy right now driving around a FedEx truck wearing a Kaui Leonard.

jersey? Well, I learned later what happened, which was the jersey was made in China, and I ordered it in very late December of 2019. Ah, just like right before the pandemic, yeah. Yeah, so there were, I made sense. That never arrived. Never got the money back, though. So, all right, thank you for the banana bread, Craig. Thank you also for, you know, the pod stuff. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Bob Marley, which is what I'm going to be listening to the next few days to call my nerves. Your fatalist mentality, I don't know. Bob Marley. doesn't mix with that, D.K. You got to lean in.

Don't worry about a thing. Every little thing's going to be okay. All right. This conflicts with your whole mood, though. Either you got to lean in full nihilism. Trying to change it. All right. What's that nihilistic?

Yeah. What's the opposite of Bob Marley music? Like the most stressful. Like slip knot? I don't know. Slip not. I don't actually know what slipnot sounds like, to be honest. I can picture it.

What's that interstellar music where he's trying to like align the spaceship. Yeah, just Han Zimmer, I guess. Yeah. The soundtrack to like Apocalypse Now. Yeah. Yeah. Just something that's super depressing.

Or no, what's the, what's, there's a, there's a main song from the movie Platoon that is just like so depressing. Just Vietnam War music. Yeah, but it's actually like, it's like a classical music score that it's just like makes you want to cry. Anyway, that's what we'll be listening to. No, you know what it is? Listen to the Sarah McLaugh.

Soflin song on those commercials about adopting dogs. The dog god. Oh my God, dude. In the arms of an angel. That's the last song I think I've listened to ever. Under your deathbed, just play that. The last song I want to hear on the planet. Here it is, Adagio for strings.

That's the name of the song. Can we play that? There's no idea of the copyright on that. No, this is for the platoon soundtrack. Okay. I haven't seen Platoon in a while. I don't remember the song. I'm excited to find out

whether we actually got this music in the podcast or not. We'll see. We'll get sued for Christmas. Congratulations. Here's a lawsuit from Mariah Carey. Christmas Green. Have you guys seen

that commercial though for Kroger? That's like the claymation like the grandfather and there's like a recipe and they're making it and it's like the beginning of up but it's a Kroger commercial. No.

I haven't seen it. I've never seen a Kroger commercial on my life. I was crying. I didn't need it started. They played it during the Thanksgiving Mason's Day parade and they played it again during the NFL games of Christmas. People emails at Ringer Fantasy Football at Gmail.com. I know other people know what I'm talking about. This commercial actually made me cry. I couldn't believe it. Just straight out a dumb and dumber. They literally just ripped out the

beginning of up and just made it a commercial. Works every time. Old people like doing things wistfully never fails. Anything that makes you realize that one day you will be old and feel. a loss. Tough. Does this how marketing works? Is this how advertising works? That's why I only watch

high school comedies. I think advertising makes you feel young like you live forever and you need things. Until you realize that everything they're selling you actually makes you age quicker. God, do that. Should that be my hottest take? Buying things makes you happy?

Material things are good. Money can buy you happiness. Money absolutely buys happiness. If you keep buying things, if you just never stop, never feel sad. That brief pie will just last forever if you just keep buying iPads and PS5s. When you start to feel sad, just buy something else.

Craig, what's the deal with Babylon? You said you were only tweeting about Babylon? I love it. I fucking love it. What is that? Are you obsessed with Old Hollywood? I am obsessed with old Hollywood. It's a three hour and like 10 minute absolute gauntlet of debauchery and drugs and

partying. And it's also just one of the most like, daring movies anyone's made in the last 10 years. And I love that. I have to watch that. It is so bold and self-indulgent and cocky. And I was a huge fan of it. I'm a big Damien Chazelle guy.

I like La La Land. I like Whiplash. Brad Pitt, Margo Robbie. You know what this movie's missing? Me. Anthony Hopkins. I knew you're going to say this. It's a famous Brad Pitt movie.

Yeah. It's about Hollywood moving from the silent films to talkies. there was a story that Margo Robby Robby she kissed Brad Pitt on the mouth which wasn't in the script and she was like what other option what other opportunity we're going to have to kiss If I ever see Brad Pitt I'm going to kiss him Just kiss him right on the mouth

I think that right in the That should go on Brad Pitt's teamstone Is that Margot Robbie said that about him I don't even know if it's true Craig can you corroborate that story I don't even I haven't heard that feel like I saw it on Twitter But I believe it listen especially when you're married like Margarabi is, like, you can get away with that on set. There's no rules.

And by watching Babylon, you will learn that especially back in the day, there was no rules. Wow. Is it as good as Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? It's very different. I would say it's much more similar to a Boogie Knights than it is to a Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Oh, that's cool.

Okay. All the film nerds who weighed in on, um, what's it called again? Babylon. No, no, the other one. Once Upon Time in Hollywood? The fall. Legends of the Fall.

Kingdom of the Fall. Legends of the Fall. Also about Old Hollywood. Yeah. Everyone who leaned in on that or emailed in on that, let us know anything like that one. All right. Oh, no, I was going to thank you.

We already did that. Cool. Goodbye, everyone.