The Ringer NFL Show - Week 9 Recap: Stroud’s Coming Out Party, Dolphins Fraud Watch, and Ravens Super Bowl Hopes

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

The guys recap Week 9 and discuss which team is really the best in the NFL. They also talk about the teams on fraud watch, C.J. Stroud’s big game, and the incredible Josh Dobbs story. Then, they add a new name to the Fantasy Burn Book. Check out our Fantasy Football Rankings for this week’s positional rankings and more! Email us! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Social: Kiera Givens and Jack Sanders Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is officially back and we've got you covered right here on the Ringer NFL feed. I'm Shil Kapadia and every Tuesday and Friday, Ben Solek and I will be bringing you extra point taken. Nora Prentiotti here to tell you that Stephen Ruiz and I will be coming to you every Monday and Thursday. Our Monday show will recap everything from Sunday's games. Thursday show will encompass any news during the week with an eye towards the next slate of games. Subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram. Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter at Ringer NFL.

Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy football show. My name is Danny Hyfitz. I am joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Browellek. Sunday of Week 9 is done. D.K. Yo. The Seattle Seahawks were disemboweled by the Baltimore Ravens today. Disemboweled is really, really descriptive.

I can really visualize that. 37 to 3. I mean, D.K., did you shield your son's eyes from the game? I did. Yeah, I didn't want him to see that. Man, remember how we were like, you asked me if it was offensive that they had a six point, they were, what was line six or something like that? Six. It turned out that you lost by 31.

Yeah. No, the Seahawks were absolutely just useless in this game. I mean, it was weird because everything that had been good about them in coming into this game, like their defense had been really strong. They'd been stopping the run. You know, the pass rush was really heating up. You know, their offense had been top 10 in the NFL in a lot of categories. And then all of a sudden, they just could do.

nothing. So the Ravens are really good. Well, so on that now, I was wondering, so DK, we every week, we do power rankings for the Ringer. We have the Ringer NFL staff writers. I'll submit theirs, and you can look at them at NFL rankings.organtor.com. And I think this week was a real shift where I don't know who I'm going to put at number one this week, but I think I'm going to put the Ravens. Like, I think

the Ravens are the best team in the NFL. Do you guys disagree? I was just watching this game and I'm like, Just for starters, TK, not to... Well, actually not, I'm not going to pretend. I'm going to just pick it your wounds. The last three weeks, the Ravens played the Seahawks, the Cardinals, and the Lions. The combined score entering the fourth quarter,

I'm just clipping the fourth quarter, because they were not competitive. Entering the fourth quarter, those three games, the score was Ravens 86, opponents 10. Wow. 86 to 10 the last three weeks. Lamar, random stat I don't know what to do with,

but he's 18 and 1 versus the NSC, which is ridiculous. But Ravens had 200. 98 rushing yards today? Yeah, it was crazy. The Seahawks had 28. I'm telling you, this is what I'm saying. The Seahawks were one of the best run defense teams in the NFL coming into this game.

That was like one area where they were really getting strong. And then they just couldn't tackle anybody in this game. Yeah, they got run all over. But I got to say, as much as I was impressed by the Ravens' offense, I think I'm more impressed with the Ravens defense. Yeah. I totally agree. The defense, so they're allowing under 14 points per game,

which is the best the Ravens have. done since the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, which are probably the top two defense of my lifetime. And then Solek had this. The 2023 Baltimore Ravens are allowing a touchdown on 9% of their drives. And the last NFL team to do that was the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, which is crazy. And I apologize to whoever said this, but I don't remember. But I actually feel this way about the Ravens offense and their defense. Both the offense and defense are like a pitcher that has pitches that they can move.

they have different speeds and the pitches break and different kinds of break and speed, but they all look the same coming out of their hand. Oh, yeah, sure. I just, I don't know. I mean, I will totally accept that there's still questions about whether the Ravens can, like, play, you know,

down two touchdowns or whatever, like with Lamar, but like, I don't know, the Ravens with this defense aren't going to be down to touchdowns at any point. So, DK, are you going to be putting the Ravens number one of your power rankings?

Because I'm going to do it. I think it's really close. I still, I think I'm going to stick with the team who had number one last week, and that's the Eagles. They beat a very good Cowboys team too this week. So to me, that was a very impressive game from them as well,

even though the Cowboys maybe could have won that game. But I look at the Eagles. And so I wrote down some of the reasons that I think that they're the number one team in the NFL. And it mainly comes down to just balance. Top to bottom, is there a more talented team in the NFL than the Eagles right now?

The Giants. Right. I mean, that's close. The Eagles don't have a single person named Tommy DeVito. And I think the, Eagles, a couple of things come to mind. And this is something that we've talked about going even back into the summer. It's like they have this mathematical advantage that no other team has in the sense that

they can not only do the read option and do the run game with Jalen Hertz, which is a massive advantage, but they steal an extra down so often with their ability to just dominate in the tush push. It's like almost automatic. And so they're like playing with an extra down. I think that advantage to me is just like you cannot discount how massive that is. They have elite weapons on offense. AJ Brown is maybe the best number one receiver in the NFL.

Devante Smith, one of the best number twos. They have a good offensive line. And to cap it all out, Jalen Hertz to me is like the calm in the storm quarterback where he never panics. He never looks worried. He never, you know, he's just like so even keeled all the time. I don't know if you're getting that with Lamar Jackson, even though I think Lamar is playing really, really well. And, you know, not to like parrot what Craig has been saying forever, but like, we haven't seen Lamar do this in the playoffs either. And so I still, I think, just barely have the Eagles with an edge, but it's very close.

I think it's hard. When it's really close, you end up judging them by like history and what they've done. And I think the fact that the Eagles were just in the Super Bowl, they were the best team in the league last year. That's probably why they get the edge. And it's why I think the best team in the league right now, if I rank is neither the Eagles nor the Ravens, I think I'm picking the Chiefs. Because the Chiefs are essentially, they're basically 9-0 in my book. I mean, look, they lost week one. to the Lions without Travis Kelsey.

They lost by one. They only allowed 14 offensive points in that game. They had a pick six. And then they lost to the Broncos when Mahomes had the flu. And other than that, this team is 7 and 0. They beat Miami today, 2114. And look, they have the best quarterback in the league. And I think the defense for the Chiefs right now

is the best defense that Mahomes has ever had. And while the offense looks okay and it looks very average right now, what the defense is doing is so impressive that I'm still taking them in any game because I get the best quarterback in the league and I get a top three defense in the league. They've held two to 14 points. They held Herbert to 17,

Trevor Lawrence to 9, and like I said, the Lions to 14. This defense is humming. They're third in the league in a lab yards per play. So even though the receiving situation is weird, it's not weirder than last year. And so I would still pick the Chiefs.

I love, I mean, Steve Spagnolo, the Chiefs Defense Coordinator, like he was the Giants Defense Coordinator when they won 2007. and he's just very deep in Giants fans' hearts. And I talked about it on Friday where I think he did a great job getting it to it. And I feel like the Chiefs,

they got pressure up the middle and they got unblocked pressure onto it. And they really hassled him. I think what's weird about the AFCs who spent all offseason talking about how the quarterback imbalance and all the quarterbacks in the AFC are better. And really what we've been talking about in season

and I know Rogers got hurt is all the AFC quarterbacks, and this is true, are kind of led by like, the contenders are actually of great defenses with questions at quarterback. Like the Browns have this incredible defense. And Deshaun Watson, I do nothing because the Brown's defense,

just like the Cardos had like 50 yards and 40 plays or something insane. By the way, speaking of that, did you know that Adversie West scored a combined six points today? The Seahawks said three. The Rams had three and the Cardinals had zero. That's so bad. And then obviously the 49ers are 25. Clayton and Brett Rippin couldn't get the job done, I guess.

It's like pathetic. That's horrific. Obviously, the Chiefs, the defense has been carrying. them this season. But even the dolphins in this game. The Dolphins' offense was kind of dragged forward by their defense. Like the Dolphins' defense actually played really well. Bradley Chub probably had his best game as a dolphin. And you just look around. The Steelers,

no offense, Craig. MVP candidate Kenny Pickett, kind of, you know, being dragged around by the Steelers D. Like, it just, the whole AFC, the Jets obviously, but my only issue with the Chief, the Chiefs is the Super Bowl contenders, they don't do anything. There's so many little things they do poorly.

I'm not going to talk about Cadius Tony, but like Mikul Hardman can't catch pun Well, like that's just a weird thing. They're catching like inside the five yard line. It's just like bad at it. And it's a weird thing for Super Bowl contender. And the other thing, they chiefs don't have a third and one play,

which is bizarre when Dek is talking about the Eagles are unstoppable on fourth and one and two. And the chiefs just can't do third and one, which is so weird. And yet if Mahomes didn't have the flu and Travis Kelsey was healthy, they'd be nine and oh. Okay.

Mahomes is so good. It is true though, Craig. It's like, we can pick Nitz about all these other variables that are happening. It's an argument for the chiefs, I think. Hyvitz just made. He's like, they're really not playing that great. And I'm like, they're basically nine and no.

And that's what I was going to bring that up to is like, it feels like they are building towards getting hot at the right time. You know what I mean? Like Rishi Rice is coming on really strong lately for them. And he looks like he could be a potential game changer for him. As the year goes on, we're seeing this with some, you know, other rookies too this year. It's like, it takes them a while to figure out how to be a pro,

but then by halfway through the season or so, you know, this is why there's the post, the post by rookie bump. It's like you start to kind of like, just play again instead of thinking all the time or whatever. And so maybe like Rishi Rice

can be this big difference maker form going forward and they can like actually start to do some stuff on offense. But right now it's still very like, you know, kind of ugly at times. The Chiefs have that with Rishie Rice where they have the luxury of like, they're just kind of like,

again, the Chief's offense, to be clear, it's not playing well. Like shout out Shil Kapati, our colleague here. is there's a stack called success rate, which basically just measures your yards, but like in context of the play. So eight yards on first and ten is good and successful,

and eight yards in third and ten is not successful. And then you get success rate. And if you look at the 103 games that Patrick Mahomes has played, the Chiefs performance today ranked 101st out of 103 games for success rate for the Chiefs. So the offense is playing very poorly. Having said that, I agree with Craig, where it's like a soup or like a, I don't know,

it's false. It's like a suit. It's getting itself together. Like the chiefs have three months to get the office together. Yeah, it's reducing. Yeah. You're trying to like when you taste the soup, like five minutes after you put on the, it's not, it's psychotic to think that that's going to taste like the way it's come out. Like if you, if the question is who is playing the best right now, I'm not picking the chiefs. It probably is Baltimore. But if you're asking me who I think is the best team in the league and who I would bet on to win the Super Bowl, I'd still probably pick the Chiefs. So where do the Bengals come out in this? Because the Bengals just beat the Bills. Ironically, the Bills, I think, have what you were saying about the Chiefs and Rishi Rice,

where the bills of Khalil Shakir and Dalton Kikade coming on, where you're like, wow, these young guys are figuring out. But the Bengals, dude, I was so impressed. Obviously, we didn't talk about how Joe Burroughs back. But Jamar Chase, Joe Barrows back, like, metaphorically, like he's returned. But then Jamar Chase literally hurt his back falling from like 11 feet in the air. And Chris Collinsworth was like, wow, that looked awful.

And, like, he clearly flashed back to some painful thing that happened over in the 1980s. And he was like, oh, I promise. But I was so amazed. T. Higgins just instantly was like, okay, I'm the number one receiver now. As soon as Chase got hurt. And I was like, wow, the Bengals are impossible to stop. Yeah, exactly.

They're another team that's really just coming into their side. By the way, I was looking at this because I was trying to formulate where I would put them in the hierarchy of the NFL at large right now. Well, that's what the power rankings are for. Correct. That's what the power rankings do. By the way, the Bengals, last place in the AFC North. And I'm like, I think they're the best in the league.

I feel like they're top five or six right now. They're in last place and their division. I think there's a tier of four right now. And it's the chiefs. It's the Eagles. It's the Bengals and it's the Ravens. Also, what's funny is the Seahawks entered today in first place in the division

and the Seahawks lost 37 to three. This is why you don't do power rankings based on the standings, by the way. Also, I will shout out of the AMC North for actually being what we said it would be. That's funny. It doesn't make any sense. How are they in last place? Because Burrow didn't have a calf for five weeks. Did you see after the game, they asked Burrow,

what's the difference between your game? And he's like, what was missing from your game that you can do now? He's like, run. Yeah. Dude, the Bengals just have a swag. Bengals have Riz. You know what I mean? No team has Rizze right now except the Bengals.

They're the only, I would say the Ravens and the Bengals have Riz. No one else. You have Riz or you get Rizzed? You can Riz somebody up and you can also have Riz. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's short for charisma. You know that, right?

I did, but only because of the riszed up by Livy, and I kind of forgot about it, so you said it's just there. Well? Loap Baby Grong. Whatever happened to baby Grong. I think he retired to be a gamer. That's not a joke. He's doing Twitch now.

The 10-year-old football player retired to become a gamer, and that's a real sentence that I just said. Do you retire to be a gamer at 10, or did you just keep gaming? Well, I think he stopped playing football. I actually don't know about that. There's no way. There's no way his dad let him do that. Well, I'm pretty sure he has pivoted his career to focus on playing video games.

Also, maybe it just took like a month off. They were like, oh, my God. All right. Anyway, so the last place, Bengals, they're really good. And the top five, times six. That looks like they have no holes right now. Their defense is really strong. They have a good O line.

They have amazing skill players. Burrow is playing as good as he plays. I mean, Burrow is so back. The bills are now, what, five and four, Buffalo? AFC seems like it's going to come down to once again the chiefs and the Bengals. All right. There was someone just tweeted this out, and it was Josh Allen and his brain, and it was an alligator whose face was too big for its arms to do anything, and it was like an alligator

trying to play the trombone, and like the trombone is out here in his arms, and an alligator trying to climb the ladder, and its face is stuck. in the rungs. And it was just Josh Allen trying to do anything with his brain. And I was like, it's like, not the kid. And I'm like, wow, that really is like watching every bill's game. He was playing. He was bawling out. I like the bills still, you know. I feel like there's a lot of hate on Josh Allen right now. Like, I still think Josh Allen is fantastic and most games looks amazing. No, I know. I'm being unfair. He is getting a lot of, I mean, from, you know, various podcasters out here are just giving him shit for no reason.

You know, I don't really know why. He just goes, he just goes wild. He's, he's, he's, he's a feral quarterback. He'll just do whatever. The intentional grounding call, that was like very clearly Gabe Davis ran in the wrong route. That was pretty bad. So if the, we're saying Ravens, Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals, top tier, who's the biggest fraud? So we're saying bills are absolved of fraudness even though they. Yeah, I don't think they're frauds. I agree.

I think the Seahawks are frauds. Oh, yeah. Sorry to say. But I also don't think anybody really considered them to be among the elite tier anyway. so this probably doesn't count. Yeah. I think the dolphins are frauds. Apologies to our producer Carlos, but...

Carlos, if you want to defend yourself, get in here. Craig, keep going. Let me do my pitch, and then Carlos can come in and rebuttal. So the dolphins have lost to the bills, the Eagles and the Chiefs. They beat the Chargers in week one. They've beaten Russell Wilson and the Broncos. They beat Mac Jones. They beat the Giants with whatever quarterback was playing in that game.

Not that it matters. Doesn't matter. They beat the Panthers. And then they beat the Mac Jones and the Patriots again. The Dolvins have now lost seven straight games to teams with a winning record. The last time they beat a team over 500 was week three last year. What? Wow.

That's pretty wild. They're averaging 17 points per game this year against teams of the record better than 500. This team is like a Rube Goldberg machine where it's like fucking incredible to look at when everything's working right. But if you move one little piece out of place, the whole thing collapse. Carlos, he called your favorite team a Rube Goldberg to spawn. What is Carlos supposed to say? Wild. What a wild accusation.

But do you agree? I mean, we knew this was going to be the narrative, like, if they lost this game. It is what it is. You knew that was the narrative? You knew Roopoldberg was coming? I guess I'm just trying to understand what the rules are here because we just blatantly dismiss the fraud watch for the bills. And if you look at their schedule, some of their loss are to the Jaguars, a good team.

And who else did they lose to? The Bengals, a good team. Their best win on their schedule is the Dolphins, who were saying are a fraud. Interesting. But that means the bills can't be as fraudulent as the dolphins if the bills beat the dolphins. It's like the Walter White like don't bullshit a bullshitter.

Sure. I'm just saying, look at what are their wins? Their wins are the bucks, a bad team. The Giants, a bad team. Sorry, high fits. The commanders, a bad team. The Raiders, a bad team. Wow.

He's deflecting. He's deflecting very powerful here. He's deflecting 101. It's tough that he had no argument whatsoever for the golfers. I mean, he was like, well, the bills suck worse. No, there is no argument. I mean, look, if they lost to the three good teams they played, I'm just saying what are the rules here because we just dismissed the bills?

I think the difference here is that I've seen the bills go to the AFC championship. You know what I mean? I've seen the bills like. I guess that goes back to what you're saying before that it goes back to like. I've seen Josh Allen in big moments beat really good teams. I do want to just clarify. What's up? The bills have not gone to the UFC championship.

It just felt that. way because the Chiefs bills. Oh, the Chiefs game? Oh, you're right. It was not the AFC championship. It just felt that way. Craig was alive back in the 90s. So, yeah, me and Jim Kelly go way back.

It's actually Liz's father. Yeah, I was going to say. My uncle. Oh, so wait, I'm wrong. It was the AFC championship, but it was a different game. Oh, wait. It was a different game? Are my crazy?

They played twice. The first one, it was during the pandemic and it all bled together. Okay, okay. So that happened to the AFC championship. I was wrong. But I think that's the only difference. And I know that's like, feels unfair in the moment, but I'm like, look, if I've literally never seen this team beat a good

team, it's hard for me to put them in the same bucket as a team that I have seen beat a good team. That's true. I mean, look, it's all fair. I get it. I totally get it. I just, I guess I get frustrated when we're sitting here schedule evaluating, schedule scouting, the dolphins, specifically when you could do that for literally every team. All right. Well, I'm going to schedule, scout the dolphins, and I'm going on by, and then the dolphins play the Raiders, Jets, commanders, Titans, Jets. And if they don't fucking destroy the, I know.

And then it's Cowboys, Ravens, Bills. And so I was talking to Stremski. And I was talking to Jostremski earlier today. And Jistremski's, I mean, we don't talk about this enough. New York radio host who's a Dolphins fan, which is like the weirdest thing ever. Right. And I don't give them enough shit.

But this isn't going to go away because either the dolphins are going to lose to some of these bad teams and either be in danger of missing the playoffs or the dolphins are going to destroy these bad teams. and then face Cowboys Ravens Bill's down the stretch. I think they're going to do that. Yeah, and that's the thing. So the dolphins are going to deal with this, barring like a championship game or a Super Bowl appearance.

Like this is like going to follow Tua and the dolphins into next season because the nature now of the narrative meets the schedules. Like this is who the dolphins are. For sure. And, you know, the three hard games have also been on the road, which is like doesn't help the situation as well. So I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, Germany is not the easiest place to travel and play. too. So, you know, it looked like a game where two teams flew nine hours and then went to work. You know, like, I'll show like. Yeah. Look, A-chan's going to be back after the buy. We think they're probably going to win every game by 30 until these final three games.

Like, there's a really strong chance that the dolphins are like 11 and 3 by week 14. They'll split with the Jets, but yeah. Yeah. I just, they'll lose to the Jets. Zach Wilson will steal a game as he did. Carlos was with the real, like, depressed fan. DNA just sitting in right there. Like, no, they'll lose to the jets.

Don't worry. All right. Well, thank you, Carlos. Sorry to just keep picking at your scabs. We should bring you on more when things happen that are fun. Hyvitz, who do you think is the fraud? Oh, the dolphins. I'm like, Carlos, get back out here.

Oh, man. We had a lot of great games this week. We said, oh, every window this weekend, we had a huge game. Chiefs Dolphins and you had the Ravens and the Seahawks. Afternoon, you had Cowboys Eagles. Tonight, Bill's Bengals, like, this is a week of the year. Well, I'll tell you what the game of the year was. Fucking Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Houston Texans, game of the year.

Just like we all predicted. Hiding in plain sight. That was so fun. Amazing game, 3937, the Texans won in electrifying fashion. Fucking CJ Stroud, dude, 470 yards, five touchdowns, no picks, set the single game rookie passing yards record with 470. And, I mean, got the ball back 45 seconds, marched down the field, scored a touchdown. to win the game.

It was a crazy final five minutes. Stroud was unbelievable. After like a couple weird games in a row, I feel like he hit that rookie wall that everybody talks about. And I mean, I mean, this guy's gonna win the rookie year,

obviously. A couple thoughts in the game, but first, I have to read a couple things, which it's a little unfair, but I'm going to do it. C.J. Stroud, first of,

Bryce Young had three interceptions today. And Stroud has, what, two on the year? One. One. Yes, one interception. I'm sorry to do this too, Craig, but CJ Stratt is more touchdown passes in his career than Kenny Pickett. What's his record?

I care about W's over here, right? Kenny Pickett doesn't care about touchdowns. We care about getting wins. We actually prefer to get outgained every single game and still win. We're kind of like a Nathan for you bit as a team. I feel like watching this game, sometimes you watch, I don't know how to say this, but like sometimes you watch a touchdown pass and you're like, all right, whatever. Like, what did you do?

Right? You know what I mean? Like you watch a quarterback and you're like, wow, I can't believe you just get credit. it for a touchdown. He was wide open. The C.J. Stroud, he threw five. They were incredible. Like, they were incredible throws. And this game, I think it was actually one of the best games in the history of the

Texans. I know they're only like 20 years old. But I actually think this is probably one of the four or five best games ever that Houston Texans have had. And that I can't remember, who was the last quarterback? We were so sure was absolutely health, like going to be a starting, an above average starting quarterback in the NFL for 10 years. Like, not cutting Mahomes who sat on the bench. Like, when was the last time, the guy was this immediately incredible?

Herbert. Herbert, yeah, was Herbert. Yes. That's, like, he's so good. Yeah, he's immediately become ridiculously good. By the way, I'm just looking at the rankings right now. He's averaging more fantasy points per game than Patrick Mahomes. This guy had Tank Dell, Dalton, Schultz, and Noah Brown all go over 100 yards. I love this.

You see the top three receivers by Yardage entering tonight? So Ian Hart to sweet this out were Amarie Cooper. and then Noah Brown and then, oh, no, Mark, wait, no, shit. Oh, C.D. Lamb and Mario Cooper, Noah Brown. So all three were Cowboys. But the, and then, oh, Dalton Schultz. Yeah, 130 yards.

Dalton Schultz is, like, randomly, like, one of the best days of his career. Like, C.J. Stroud, I, oh, I, D.K., we studied the draft, like, but you studied the draft the most of the best. Thank you. You hated Stroud. Explain that. You ranked him.

False. Actually, he was my QB1. no big deal. But yeah, to me, this is something that we've, I've seen a lot on Twitter already too, but so I'm not like trying to pile on necessarily. But remember how much hand-wringing there was about the S-2 test that he bombed? Yeah.

He's just really good at football. Who fucking cares? Explain what that is. Explain what the S-2 test is, though. Well, I don't actually know that, and this is part of the reason that we were, I think, dubious to, like, put too much stock into it. We talked about this on the Draf show.

We're like, it's a black box. in some ways. I don't know exactly what the test is. We haven't seen the history of what the test tells you how much correlation there is to quarterbacking. All you hear is these vague sort of, you know, insinuations that it's very important. You know, that's like basically all we know about it. It's like...

A cognitive ability test. Yeah, exactly. It's, I think they're, the basic idea is like to measure how quickly you can, uh, see and react to things in your vision or in space or whatever and how quickly you can make decisions. What is it? Like, they throw tennis balls at you? while you're taking an SAT.

Again, I don't actually know. That's the problem. It's like, why do we put any stock in this? You know, it's a better test than like an on paper or like some type of interactive cognition ability test? It's to just watch the real test is like when they play football on the field. It's such a good point, Craig. Yeah.

Yeah. The S2 test, I don't know. The S2 test thing, I get people are like, oh, straight out of the S2. I'm like, he went second in the draft. Still, though, it was a huge talking point. I just don't want to like forget that that was something that we were actually really worried about. And people were starting to like downgrade him because of that throughout the process.

That being said, you're right. He did to go second. I think the Texans made the right choice in drafting him. And honestly, they're starting to look like they were kind of right based on the fact they went all in on this draft. You remember, they traded back up to second overall. Yeah, they gave up a tremendous amount to take Will Anderson. So it take Will Anderson.

And then we were like, what the fuck are you doing? This could be like a top five pick next year. But turns out they had a lot of confidence in what Stroud could do. in elevating this offense. You know, obviously, I think the coaching staff deserves a ton of credit for Houston because this is just a really fun team to watch. They're getting a lot of good play from a lot of guys

you really wouldn't expect. Tank Dell has been amazing. Yeah, and some of their, like, free agent picks have been, or some of their free agent signings have been really good. Like you said, Dalton Schultz has been really awesome. So, I don't know, man, a lot of credit to them, but they're just a really fun team to watch. I think it does start with Stroud for support.

Well, there's nobody that they got production from that was hard to expect. than freaking Dario Gubuwalei, the third string running back, kicking a field goal. The freaking kicker gets hurt. So first I screwed up all the gambling and all the bets. I actually went on the Ringer Wise guys,

the show we do for Fandall, and I actually gave out the bucks getting three points, which, because I knew that the kicker would get hurt and then it'd have to go for two and everything. But it screws up all the gambling, and that's to say nothing. I'm always amazed that when the kicker gets hurt, that the punter kicker,

can't do the kickoffs. It's such a joke. It makes no sense. It has been explained to me. And every time I'm just kind of nodding and I'm like, I don't get it. How can you be a punter and not be like the backup kickoff guy? How is it explained to you? What's the reasoning?

They're like, well, it's different. And then they explain leg muscles. And I'm like, oh. I'm like, well, Dario Gubowalai can do it, but the punter can't, the guy who kicks every day? Thank you. It's, it literally, it doesn't make any sense. I feel like I'm in calculus.

Have you guys ever gone to training camp and watched like the kickers? practicing. They just, again, I'm probably like, completely oversimplifying everything and I'm sure kickers are going to be mad at me, but it's like they just fucking hang out and kick on the side. It's just fives.

Like, you can't practice kicking off, too? Do you remember in P.E., the girls who, like, didn't want to play football and they would just walk the track? That's what the coach would make them do. It's kind of like what the kickers do. Oh my God. Yeah, so I didn't bring my shoes.

They're just like off to the side. So the school at a rule, you'd have sneakers. They're like, I don't have them. It'd be like 80 guys, like sweating their ass off at 10 in the morning playing football, and then there's just be like six girls walking the track. Oh, shit. So the kicker contingent is going to come after us after this. First of all.

No, they won't. They're fine. And the Ogun Bowler, oh, actually they might because the kickers, don't forget that all the kicker punter pipelines run by a mafia. So, like, there's one special teams camp. We'll get it to that later. but the he made the 29 year field goal

and he just was so chill about it like he didn't even be like like he just was like yep ran back like a normal kicker he kicked sorry maybe you just said this he kicked off too and it like kicked it booted it into like the end zone

I'm not gonna lie I watched this and I was like how hard is this like this seems just as easy as I always thought it was in my head also like maybe they should have the punters like just like once a week kick a couple field goals at practice

unbelievable You know what else? Once a week. It can be on like Thursday. Just kick five. Like you gotta make five before you go home on Friday. I don't know. It's kind of like how when you watch basketball and then anyone misses a free throw and you're like how.

But like with the exception of like what else do you do all day? Like how much punting are you doing that you can't make? I don't know. What do you think special teams meetings are like? Okay. So on this one, we're going to kick it to the right. Special team's meetings They have three plays

It's punt left punt right punt middle I mean I mean specifically for the kickers Not necessarily for all the coverage guys Because I know that's a little more complicated But I'm like Isn't there basically like three directions you can kick it

I think there's how their meetings go Right left and middle Anyway G-42 Bingo That's how I think their meetings go Go fish I'm just kidding. These are all athletes and far more athletic than I'll ever be.

So congrats to all you guys. What are you guys afraid of Pat McAfee calling us out about punting? It is a good take that the punter should absolutely be the backup kicker. Of course. Come on. But the other thing I'll say, the other thing I'll say, I actually think the Texans won the game because the kicker got hurt. I know that's a crazy thing to say.

But I think that they were so much more aggressive on third and fourth down because they didn't have the option. And I flashed and they went for the two points. conversions, they got them. And I flashed back to like something Eli Manning said on one of the first Manning casts. And it like blew my mind. And him and Peyton, Eli just said this casually. I was like, what? And Peyton just nodded.

And he was like, I always like being down four more than I like being down three. Yeah. And I was like, what a stupid thing to say. And then Peyton Manning's like, yep. And I was like, and Eli's like, I know that sounds crazy because you could tie the game in the field goal. But like that's the problem. The coaches just get so much more.

And I'm not quoting him. paraphrasing it, but it's like, burning my mind. It's like, the coaches get more conservative when you know you just have to get a field goal. And you down four, they've nothing to lose. They let you rip it. Yeah. And they just, and I'm like, that's Kenny Pickett's freaking career, right? Like, it's just like, oh my God, don't make a mistake.

Don't make a mistake. And then you score or lose. And then the Steelers can move the ball. And it's like, there was a, I think the reason the Texans had this freedom was they're like, well, we got to get to the end zone or else. And look what happens. Everyone played incredible. Love that.

Yeah. It really didn't feel like we were watching the first game of the future where I was like, if they ever get rid of kicking, this is what football will look like. And it was way more electric. I mean, I actually think they only went one for three with on two point attempts. But the last one was the big one that mattered. Think about that base math, though. One for three.

That's if you kick three extra points, that's three points. And if you make one for three, that's two. But if you make all three, that's six. Like the math is disproportionate. You know what I mean? I know what I'm saying? Well, it depends on what the success rate is of getting the two-point conversion, like, historically, I suppose, or you'd have to do that math. Because if you only get it 33% of the time, then it's even, or then it's worse.

You know what I mean? I wish I didn't know off the top of my head what it is. For some reason, I thought it was, like, close to 50%. I think it's better than half. Oh, well, then, yeah, then theoretically you should. That's what the, we're not going in it, but that's why the teams go for two now down 14. I know. Which happened today.

I'll Google it. Oh, and the bills madeles game. The bills did that and got it. The base math for that is just if you think about trying to get the touch. You're just trying to get the overtime, which is a coin flip, right? And then if you think of each two point as a coin flip, it's like just do the coin flip now. Yeah, I get it. You know what you need earlier.

Various sources estimate the success rate of a two point conversion to between 40 and 55%. That was according to Wikipedia. I don't know how accurate that is. No, they literally have the little sources on the Wikipedia. You can click the little number. Yeah, there's like a number above the sentence. Well, no, but it was, High Fitz,

remember how we always talk about how the internet is like lying to you all the time? This is one of those things that you just Google and then it comes up on Google without clicking it. But again, it's like these analytics like, it sounds great in a vacuum,

but like if your quarterback, Zach Wilson, I don't think I'm going for two every single time because I don't trust him to get it 40% of the time. Analytics, all right, this is by the analytics, the coach's jobs to decide. We can go.

I don't know how we got on this. I believe the future football. Yeah, probably. Well, you know why I brought it up? Because I don't want to think about the Giants. But fine, we can talk about the freaking Giants. Tough day. Tough day.

I would, we, it's honestly, it's a funeral for the Daniel Jones era. I think the Daniel Jones era ended today. The kind of. But the Giants lost to the Raiders 30 to 6. It didn't financially end today. That's for sure. No. Well, it sounds like Daniel Jones tour is ACL.

I think he's done. It sounds like it probably get confirmed tomorrow, but like it sounds like he's done for the season. Tyra Taylorson and I are. it's the Tommy DeVito show through at least Thanksgiving, it sounds like. Here we are. Oh, my Lord. Which is A.K. Goodfellows. Do the Giants win one more game the rest of the season?

Like, that sounds optimistic. I mean, the NFL's weird so probably, but they're legitimately maybe the worst team in the NFL. Yeah, it's like the Giants are very possibly like going to get a top five pick, but like might get the first or second pick. Like the Giants, today was the first time I, the Giants almost beat the bills two weeks ago. Like, today was the first day I realized the Giants might get Caleb Williams or Drake May. Like, I didn't think about that really seriously until today. And how that make you feel genuinely?

Better. Because I think that, you know what? I think the Giants had a really hard decision coming up with Dana Jones and that this decision was just made for them. Because I really do think the Giants are going to take a quarterback now in the draft. Like, they'll be in position and they're going to do it. So I'm confused because, and I'm being an avatar for the audience a little bit here, but like, didn't they just sign up to this massive fucking deal?

How can they get out of this contract already? Explain this. contracts are fake. I get that. Here's why. Let's break it down. He signed a deal for four years and $160 million, right? No, he didn't.

No. He signed a deal for two years and $90 million. That's why. So in the NBA, there's always like, oh, he has this deal with like for two years and then it's a team option. And like, you never hear that in the NFL, right? The word team option. Every contract's a team option.

Like they can fire, unless it's a one-year deal, every deal they can fight. It's like every year beyond that first or second, the third year is like a team option. And so even for quarter, that's why the Sean Watson deal was such a big deal. It was like that actually is five year to contract. Daniel Jones,

what they did was they're like two years for 90. Next year is a huge cap it. It's like $47 million. Long story short, they would probably push the money out in the future. I actually think now what they're going to do is they're going to keep Daniel Jones and they're probably going to like keep

and take this massive $47 million cap hit next season. And they're going to draft a quarterback in the top five. And I think they're going to keep that guy and Dan & Jones because they can't get rid of him. Dan & Jones is going to probably be the quarterback to start next season. And they'll transition to the rookie

at some point in the middle of the year. And then they will cut or trade Daniel and Jones before 2025 and for like a pretty reasonable bout. This is like the Alex Smith, Patrick Mahomes, ascension. Yeah.

In theory. Yeah, exactly. But it's like, I think the chiefs won like 11 games that year, but yeah. Yeah, I kind of nodded. It's not a perfect metaphor. I didn't really get it either, Craig.

But yeah. I'm saying like mainly just Patrick Wilms, the greatest quarterback in NFL history maybe didn't play his first year, is my point. He played behind Alex Smith. I think no, no, to be clear. Dan Jones would get benched. He would not be Alex Smith. And I hope that the new quarterback does not learn much from him. But no, I just think that he just financially has to be on the team 2024.

But there's no reason to keep Dana Jones at this point. You know why? I was watching it. The Giants. So they fell behind for 20 by 20 points there. The fourth time this season, the Giants fell behind by 20. I saw that stat and I was like, oh my God.

And I was watching it. It was so clarifying because it was the Giants Raiders side by side with the Eagles Cowboys game. And I just kept going back. And I was with my brother today. I kept going back and forth and watch these two games. And I'm like, the Giants are so fucking far from competing with these goddamn two teams.

Like, our Giants are best two players like Andrew Thomas, Dexter Lawrence? The Eagles and Cowboys have like 11 of those. Like there are so many good players. I don't know stupid to say. There's so many good players in the Cowboys and Eagles. And the Giants are so far. And then I kept thinking about how could the Giants possibly compete with these teams?

They're bereft of talent. And I'm like, the only ways to get a C.J. Stroud. Like the Giants don't, Daniel Jones is not and will never be that guy. And like, Craig, I'm sorry to say, Kenny Pickett's not that guy. Like if you do not have an absurd, disgusting amount of talent in your team, the only, there are nine good quarterback. that you feel great about your future with and you get one of the nine or you just like, you just like decay.

And the giants just have to get this pick right in the draft. They have to go get that guy. It's like the only way to live. I'm curious here. Were you in the tank for Caleb Williams or Drake May camp before today? Was that even, had that even crossed your mind, really? Or is today like a pivot point?

Obviously, the injury is very significant. I know that, but like, is this the first time you've thought of? about this? Not thought about it. Like, obviously I was aware that the Giants could like have a bad I hope everyone's not sitting here thinking I'm delusional. Like I didn't know the Giants could be bad. It's like, it's hard to get the first pick in the draft. Like the Cardinals traded Josh Dobbs away because they were like afraid that he would win a game. Like it's hard to win one game. Like teams by accident win four games all the time. Like the winning one game can be the difference

between having the third pick and like the eighth pick. It's just hard to be in the range for like the top two, especially when they're. The Cardinals have two first rounders and the Bears have two first rounders. So my thinking was like, don't get your hopes up. And today was the first day. It was like they actually might have the worst record in the league. Today was the first time I realized that the Giants would be worse than the Panthers or Cardinals. That's totally possible.

And it felt like today was a big, today felt like the beginning of the tankathon, right? It felt like the Giants lose Daniel Jones. And it's like, all right, we're in full tank mode. New England loses to the commanders. and it feels like, okay, we've officially accepted it. We have two wins. We are two and seven. We are in full tank mode.

And then obviously you have Chicago and Arizona in the mix as well because Carolina gave their pick to Chicago. So it really does feel like right now, from here on out, it is like, who can lose the most games? And it'll be interesting to see. I mean, the quarterbacks for these teams tanking are remarkable. We have Clayton Tune. We have Tyson-Bagent.

We have Tommy DeVito and we have Mack Jones. Mac Jones. Mac Jones, who's a first round pick. The Giants, I don't want to talk with the Giants too much because honestly, I do think the Raiders deserve credit, not necessarily because they won, but because they won in a way

that disrespect to Josh McDaniels as much as humanly possible. God, so good. It was so good. The new coach theory really is bulletproof. Bill was tweeting about it today. The first game after the coach is fired, the team is so fired up,

and they always play well. Like the Jags post-Urben, like the Colts, last year, one with Jeff Saturday. Like, it always happens. And with Antonio Pierce, the Raiders look so good that I think they came out of the gate. It was like 14-0 immediately. They were running all over their place.

They, like, hadn't passed 100 yards rushing all year. They had 130 today. Josh Jacobs played well. Aidan O'Connell played well because Josh McDaniels started Brian Hoy over him three weeks ago. Everyone's like ecstatic in the locker room. Like the Raiders are the happiest they've ever been. There's like videos of Devante Adams, like playing basketball in the locker room. offensive linemen were like wrestling and like tussling each other's hair like they're in cartoons

Hunter Renfro was like oh yeah like the vibes are incredible right now I just can't imagine what it's like to be Josh McDaniels at home watching this happen I guess he's counting his money but man the reports out of the Raiders like after the firing it's like if you read like what the streets look like after V-Day when America like one World War II it's like literally just people in the streets just celebrating like Hunter Redfros out there kissing some nurse or whatever. It's like a famous picture. The vibes are just like immaculate.

Wait. Also, the Jay Glazer story on Fox today was unbelievable of the Antonio Pierce speech. So yeah, laid out. Layed out. Antonio Pierce gave a speech prior to McDaniel's getting fired. Antonio Pierce was on the 2007 Giants when they beat the Patriots. And Antonio Pierce gave this whole story about. you know, the team and like what galvanized them and like real underdog mentality and like,

you know, the mindset that went into it. And I guess he kind of like disparaged the Patriots a little bit. And apparently the team loved it. The players were super energized by it and motivated and they loved it. And then McDaniels pulls Antonio Pierce aside and is like, don't you ever fucking disrespect the Patriots like that again. Craig, this is why when you said, I wonder what Josh McDaniels thinks of this. I'm like, he probably doesn't think about it. He's oblivious. Like, kind of person does that. Fucking read the room. His team's like laughing and crying and he's like, hey, none of that.

All right. The Pats were a special team. Dude, such an ass. The Simpsons meme is like, am I wrong? No, it's the children's who are wrong.

That is absolutely what it is. I love that. So look, I have no idea what's going to happen with the Raiders after this game. But today was something special. The new coach theory is something special. It's always the first and only game, though, I feel like. Is this going to stick at all?

They're just thrilled. I mean, they're cigars. Like, you see that for the playoffs. Like, all it was, it's crazy. Like, they had a victory cigar. It's like, it's like the guy who gets out of a bad relationship. It's the first night out with all the boys. Just having the best time imaginable.

This is the best. It's like when you just get a haircut. And you're like, I am on top of the fucking world. And then like a week later, you're like, well, time back to normal. I also have to mention the stack Craig cited, which was incredible because the Raiders did all those things. Because the Raiders, Adam Schifter tweeted out today that the Raiders first seven or eight games to the season, I forget. The Raiders had under 21 points and under 100 rushing yards and a turnover in every single individual game.

And they were the first team to do that in each of their first eight games of the season since the 1941 Cleveland Rams. And I couldn't help but go to the 1941 Cleveland Rams roster. And just peruse and find myself a little Johnny Drake. Yeah. Parker Hall. Marty Slovak. Marty Slovak. But my favorite being Owen, Good Night.

It's like a comic book name. Owen Good Night. Who ran for and I shit you not, 21 carries for negative 54 yards. What? What? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Dude, hyphins, there's a guy on this team named Red Hickey. Red Hicken. Wait, doesn't Owen Goodnight sound like a character from like Cal not like like like a Will Ferrell character or something? Not only is he Owen Goodnight, he's Owen Goodnight Jr. His dad was like, we got to run his back. Owen Goodnight Jr. He played for one season in 1941 and then I presume he went to war. Oh shit. I mean, probably right? Did you check his bio? Yeah.

Oh, no, he didn't. Okay, made it to 1967. He passed. Well, he could have still gone to war. Maybe he didn't die. Yeah, no, that. Another shockingly short Wikipedia page for Owen Goodnight.

Owen, I didn't know they made Wikipedia page. Just the short. Anyway, yeah, Owen, good night. He went to Hardin Simmons University. Okay. Hardens. Oh, my God. The Hardin Simmons pipeline to the NFL.

Do they have any other players? If you look up red hickie, the images are not correct. I could have told you that. They're not a football player images. Did you Google Redd? Wow, Red Hickey's

Iowa is way longer. It's WebMD. Urban dictionary. He was a naval gunnery officer in World War II. Of course he was. And he also started Sony pictures.

Coach. You guys, he was a coach and an executive with the Cowboys or a Scout, I should say. Okay. Red Hickey. I think all the Cowboy fans are like pissed off at us right now for not knowing who Red Hickey is. Last one we have to do here. Josh Dobbs. We should have led with this.

We should have. Quantum Leap. Found a host body. I don't know. Whatever you want to say. An evil spirit. He needs to possess a body, a different body every six. weeks to stay alive.

The prologue, in case you missed the greatest thing I've ever seen. Not really, but I do think this is why the NFL makes $14 billion a year is because of this game. It's not Mahomes, it's not Burrow. It's like this happened, and this is why. Kirk Cousins tears his Achilles. He's out of the season. Vikings turned to fifth round rookie out of BYU, Jaron Hall.

Jaron Hall gets concussed on the second drive of the game trying to be a hero. and Vikings turned to Josh Dobbs. And as in Josh Dobbs, like, needing a host pod to just start. Like Josh Dobbs, having been on the Vikings for five days, Josh Dobbs. And these details are from ESPN's Kevin Seifert, who did a great job chronicling this. The details are astonishing. Josh Dobbs did not take a single rep with the offense in practice this week. Not one.

didn't take a snap from Senator Garrett Bradbury until he was on the sideline hadn't thrown a pass to anybody didn't know people's full names and the Viking like he gets so Jared Hall gets hurt

Josh Dobbs on the sideline trying to learn the offense the Vikings offensive line comes over and goes through the five cadences the cadences the cadences are what the quarterback says out loud to snap the football like think about this

he didn't know how to get the center to snap the ball he had done it But like, to himself. This is a guy who doesn't know his way around the fucking Vikings facility. Like, he would have to ask somebody to get to the bathroom. Like, not said the cadences out loud to other players until he, right before he went into the game. And then Dobbs is calling the plays in from the radio.

But he doesn't know what the words mean. So he's calling the plays in. And then the players have to tell him what's going to happen on the play. So the receivers have to tell him. the routes. And then Kevin O'Connell, the head coach, is in the radio saying to play to him. He says the players. The players tell him the routes and then he lies up and the play clock's sticking down.

And Kevin O'Connell's trying to explain like what's going to happen and what the vibe is and where you should look. It's like you're like nine years old out in front of your house and you're like drawing like routes on your palm. Like that was essentially. You go deep. Yeah, button hook right here. Guy on the right's going deep.

Except if like it was happening and like everyone was speaking Spanish. and you just spoke English. And so you're saying the words and then you had to explain it back to you because you didn't know what they meant. Not to mention he didn't have Justin Jefferson. KJ. Osborne went out with a concussion. Cam Acres tore his Achilles,

who by the way, which is a horrible story that Cam Acres tore his second Achilles tendon. But Cam Acres was supposed to be, after Jaron Hall got hurt, Josh Dobbs came in, they announced that Cam Acres was the backup to Josh Dobbs. So literally the second Josh Dobbs gets to Minnesota, like the evil spirit he is.

The only other two players in the team that could play quarterback get hurt. And then Josh Stubbs' team. This is, so this is truly like a nightmare situation. Like, I've had nightmares about this where I'm like, you get into a, it's quantum lead. You get into a situation. You're in a new body. You're a new, you're a surgeon.

And you have to figure out how to do fucking surgery by having someone explain to you how to do this. It started exactly as bad as you think, which is they got the ball inside the five. And he immediately just got sacked for a safety. Didn't know where his players were going. Didn't know where the players were. And then he fumbled. And then opened the second half, he fumbled again. So like it's literally, I wrote down Vikings disaster game.

And then from that point on that I wrote down Vikings disaster game, 21 second half points for the Vikings. Josh Jobs gets a touchdown drive, gets the two-point conversion to tie it at 21. Falcons kick a field go up by three. Dobbs drives down, throws the game-winning touchdown pass. And you look good. He was like running all around.

He was 20 out of 30 for 158 yards of two touchdowns. Also led the team in rushing. Seven rushes 66 yards in his score. So this guy's incredible. All this leads me to ask, DK., you are, in all seriousness, you are one of the smartest people I know with football. Like, you actually get smarter every single year. And I respect your knowledge of the game so much.

And so I ask you this question. Do football players need to practice? Not if you're Josh Dobbs. I mean, look, all the best players don't watch tape. Tyree Kiel doesn't watch tape. Gronk, like, basically didn't watch tape. Josh Jobs doesn't even need to be on the team. He doesn't even need to know the plays.

Josh Dobbs is second in the NFL at quarterback in rushing yards. It's Lamar Jackson than Josh Dobbs. Josh Dobbs said more rushing yards in this game than Bijon Robinson. Jeez. This is crazy. I'm excited to see what team he's on in a month. He's been on three teams, by the way. in the last three months.

I think all the stuff about the NFL being rigged is frankly, like ignorant. And people, like, it always, I feel like it's very silly. And all, like, every time people are, like, oh, rigged, it's like, unless it's a joke, I'm always, I,

teensy, tinyt percent think less of you. If you actually genuinely believe, like, there's like, the refs have, like, rigged anything instead of just being bad at their jobs because they're 60 and trying to spot a ball with their fucking eyes. However, if it ever came out, the NFL was,

rigged, they would look back on this game and feel really stupid. In the last 12 months, he's been on five teams. Five teams? Yeah. So, sorry, there was, so he's on, he's on the Vikings, he was on the Cardinals, he was on the Titans and the Steelers before that.

Who was he on before that? He was on the Browns and then the Lions. Oh, the Browns, that's right. Also, can we talk about how the Falcons, can we talk about the Falcons could have had Josh Jobs for his sixth round pick? By the way, the Falcons lost to the guy that had never, didn't know the plays. He could have just been on this team.

Didn't know the fucking names of his teammates and the Falcons lost to that guy. He's like, what do I say? Can you imagine what do I say? What do I say? Blue 42. And he's like, and then you'll snap it. He's like, yeah.

He didn't, he'd never taken a snap with the team. It needs to be like a movie made about today, honestly. It's ridiculous. This is like the Forrest Gump thing. It's like, go out there, go that way. And it just goes. But like, also not because he's, insanely smart.

Even Forrest Gump was like, should we have him be quarterback? No, that would be ridiculous. Like, he probably had to introduce himself to many players after the game. John. What if the Michigan staffer guy was like on the sideline? Do you think he would know that he wasn't on the team?

Also, DK, I would like to congratulate you because your, like, multi-year campaign of hatred against Arthur Smith, probably really crescendoed today when, yeah, losing as cool as it is, and it's like the funniest mix of funny for the Vikings and also like actually teamwork and sappy and like, wow, Ted Lassow look like what we can accomplish when we all believe.

But holy shit, can you imagine being the Falcons and reading this? He didn't know the fucking plays. The quarterback didn't know the snap counts and you lost the game. Yeah, D.K., your hatred of Arthur Smith is really aging. quite nicely. I feel like everyone's kind of coming around. You know, they killed Galileo for thinking the world was round. That's kind of you right now.

Dude, so it's funny because it's not even so much that I quibble with how he uses his players anymore, even though I do, because by the way, there was a, there was a second core possession that basically perfectly sums up, like, his hubris as a play caller and as a person where they got a sack fumble return on the one-yard line. first play was a false start. Next play was a pass to Johnny Smith, who is their number two tight end. The next play was a handoff on a sweep to Johnny Smith, who is, again, their number two tight end.

The next play was a run by Tyler Algier, who is their backup running back, and then they kicked a field goal. So this to me is like, did it even occur to you to maybe use the guy, the running back that you picked in the top 10, like several months ago? Did it even occur to you to maybe give him a chance to score a touchdown?

No, it didn't. And it's like, this is, to me it's like, he gets so mad at fantasy football people. By the way, it's not just fantasy football people anymore. He was getting mad at people for making fun of Desmond Ritter, the toxic group think that said that people thought Desmond Ritter should be benched. And then, by the way, like, several days later, he benched Desmond Ritter after saying that. He also went after Kurt Warner last week. He's like, I don't give a rat's ass.

He's basically... He really lost the plot with Kurt Warner. Because, like, the fantasy football people, he was like, yeah, you're asking about, right? running back rotations, like Bejohn's touches, like, you know, they got world politics. You have opinions on that too? And then Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame fucking quarterback was like, this offense doesn't really make sense. And Arthur Smith literally was like, okay, Kurt Warner, I bet he wants to solve the world's

problems too. I'm like, that dude literally is in the Hall of Fame. So, like, ultimately, I think I've come full circle where if someone were to ask me if I had a problem with the way that Arthur Smith utilizes his players, I'd be like, not nearly as much as I do with the attire he has on or just his general point of towards everybody, but I'm going to go kill some birds. I'm psyched. Basically, it's like fucking sack lodge from wedding singers. He's just a jerk. Like, I just don't like him. He's just talks down to everybody at all times. I think I see what you saw earlier than me, which was,

there really is an incredible condescending billionaire tone to all of this. Every question. Every time anyone questions anything. I kind of sympathized with him when he was being asked these things, but they were like winning games. Yeah, we were like, oh, three and one. And I was like, yeah, Okay, we're like they're three and one. And if Ritter hadn't fumbled, they would have beat the bucks by like 30 points. So I see why he's upset. Dude, they lost this game.

Josh Dobbs handed them eight points. Like he took a safety. He turned the ball over twice and a field goal. Like the crazy part is if he hadn't done the turnovers, like the Vikings would have won by double digits. By the way, his record as a head coach is 18 and 25. It's like not even very good. I also think Argusman gets credit from the Titans.

The Titans, Arthur Smith, did have A.J. Brown, peak Derek Henry and, like, the top three offensive line in the league. And I will say, I think about that more now. Because the Bejohn-Robinson usage, it is like the stepbrothers. It's like, all right, now the tuxed seem kind of fucked up. It's like, it's kind of weird that you took this guy really high and just keep playing the other guy. I just think so, Haif, it's like, you know, some people like, you got, we got in a big fight because I really like bread. and like some people can't take a joke about this.

I couldn't take the joke when we were talking about bread and Arthur Smith can't he can't react to anything anyone says bad like well this is like a vital thing to be a head coach. It's classic billionaire mentality

kind of you know what I mean. My armchair psychology my quick armchair psychology total guess but I also think I'm right. Okay. Obviously this is unconfirmable. I think that Arthur Smith has worked so hard to prove

that he has not been handed things like favors by his dad, like FedEx and all this stuff, that I think that the first round picks and Pitts and Bejohn being chosen so high, I think that there is something very deep about the feeling of everyone has to earn it. My team, everyone has to earn their keep, and he can't just hand the job or hand the role to Bejon or Pitts just because they were taken very high because everyone has to earn it here, because deep down, you know.

Oh, that's like some single analyzing there. yeah. Honestly, it's hard to explain at this point how like Kyle Pitt, like the draft of two guys in the top ten and they're just not on the field. So you're equating, but they are good.

To like being a Nepo baby. Like it's a nepo draft player. I think he's so afraid of being a nepo baby that he equates them. Yes. Which is funny because I, Bejohn Robinson did prove his worth by being the top top pick in the draft,

by being the best running back in college football. By the way, 15, touches for Tyler Ildeer today, 14 for Bejohn Robinson. Well, Bijon fumbled, and then he got pulled for a little bit. Oh, that'll show him. Yeah.

Did they win the game? No, they lost to Josh Dobbs and evil spirits. All right, you were right about this one. I mean, look, I don't know. Like, maybe they'll end up winning more games, but like, generally speaking, I just have a big problem with his general view towards everybody. So, yeah. All right.

Well, on that note, I would like to say we did, we did. Start well with the burn book. Week one, we burn Drake London, and the week two, we burn Kyle Pitts. You got a fucking problem with that, Jeremy? You got a fucking problem with that? Desperated to the quail population. Or whatever.

The grub worm population. Grub worm population. Got a fucking problem with that? I know we're going to get a trivia question about the grob worm population. Week three, Nashi Harris, week four, we burn Dallas Goddard. Week seven, we burned Damien Pierce. Week eight, we burned Miles Sanders.

I don't know if we did burn any week five and I think we forgot. And so here's what I'm thinking. In the Great British Baking Show this season, there was a thing where someone couldn't finish the competition this weekend. So they didn't do anyone, and then they're going to eliminate two people. And I think that because I forgot to burn people a couple times,

I think we should burn two people this weekend next. Okay. Oh. Did we burn Daniel Jones? Oh, I think, I mean, I think we were going to, and then he had like a spinal injury. So would you like him? You can nominate him.

You want to nominate the guy with the spinal. No, just neck injury, ACL. Go ahead. Burn him. No, no. No, no. Let's do two. I like that.

Craig like immediately back. I'm going to nominate Tony Pollard. And that's a real admission of just a terrible take by the three of us. We went on to Bill Simmons podcast and all said that he is our favorite player in drafts this year. Did we say this like three days ago that like he's still a buy low? more or less. And look, I still think he is. And maybe week 16 and I'll still be saying that.

But we can, we can, we can, we can, we can burn him. Look, this, the numbers on him, look, we always said like the Cowboys hadn't played a normal game yet. This was a normal game. And you know what? Once again, he had seven points today. It was against the defense that's like giving up the few points of running backs, though. Yeah, but he's not, he didn't do it through the air. It doesn't matter.

I mean, if you look at his stats, basically since week two, he hasn't done anything. He's averaging like 12 carries a game. I'm on two points. I actually think wanting to burn him is why he's still a bylaw because the people who drafted him are kind of like, I'm kind of sick of this guy. Having said that, I agree with Craig that he is,

in fact, I think we put him in the bird book. The worst thing that happens is he makes us look dumb again and he gets better. I mean, he's had over 10 points once since week three. Yeah, that's pretty bad.

It's tough out there. Burn his ass. Even Ramadre Stevenson's better now. I mean, he's like Giovante Williams now. What's the kind of my schedule like coming up here? We can burn Tony. My question is, can we burn Tony?

Can we also burn Calvin Ridley even though? He's on buy? No, I think you can't burn a guy. The Cowboys play the Giants next week. Just say it. Yeah, you should buy low and Tony Pollard. Definitely buy low. He's got a four touchdowns.

He's going to throw that out there. He's got a 30 points. I don't think we can do Ridley. Ridley's coming off a buy. The week before that, it had 83 yards. You can't do that to my boy. DK Metcalf? Dude, DK Metcalf's a great one.

That one hits close to home. Is it? Because, like, that's the crux of your relationship with your dad is texting about you can make-F? Yeah, it's... Stop psychoanalyzing people. It's... No, I kind of understand... I mean, I understand the frustration with that.

I got a lot of texts and tweets today about whether I'm still pro-Geno. Because Gino obviously had a very tough game. And the CX offense in general was just atrocious. But, yes, I'm pro-Geno. I actually would understand if you want to burn D.K. McKefto. I mean, he's essentially Michael... Thomas this year. Sucks.

Wow, when you put it that way. I mean, the guy hasn't had 11 points this year and he hasn't had more than 10 since week four. One catch for 50 yards today. Oh, my. Okay, yeah. But dude, he's like, I was going to say it's Noah Brown, but Noah Brown had a great day. D.K. McHaff wishes he was Noah Brown.

D.K., do you approve burning D.K. Yeah, you're the D.K. here. We can't burn a D.K. without Deky's input. Or do you think he's been okay? I mean, I think he's been okay, but I understand the desire to want to burn him, so I may to okay it.

All right. D.K. Metcalfre in the Burn Book with Tony Pollard. Ouch. They're very different sized people, too, which is kind of funny. So you go over together. Gino Smith, by the way. We know.

So stop asking me. All right. That's all we got. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, producer, Carlos, for producing this episode. and defending his honor. Thank you.

Emails at Ringerfancy Football at jimmel.com. Email is trivia questions for waivers. I'll take any Owen Good Night, you know, grub warm population. Emails anything going on. It's a decimating grubber population. Email, emails anything. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you, Will Smith, aka the Fresh Prince.

So many, okay, okay. People were mad at us. Rightfully so. Okay. So we were talking about rappers who had made the transition. in acting and who did the best job. And then, you know, we told me like, who was the biggest rapper to go from rapping to movies?

DK said Will Smith. And Craig and I immediately were like, he's an actor who rapped. My God. All of you in my... SpongeBob millennials. I'll take some of the blame, though, too, because I should have known,

because I'm actually of the generation that should have known this probably. You guys are way too young for this, I think. But, um, my memory is fuzzy as you all know. And I didn't really remember exactly the timeline of it. But yes, we were very, very wrong. Will Smith was a very big rapper before. Yeah, much more prolific of a career musically than I had known.

I had no clue that Will Smith won a Grammy before the Fresh Prince. I thought Will Smith was on the Fresh Prince and used the Fresh Prince fame to begin a music career. You thought the first big song was Big Willie style? Yes, I did. That's true. That's true. For that, I think. do you guys have you even heard the song parents don't understand so he won a he won a grammy for that in

1989 and then that's crazy 1980 I had no like when I think of will smith's musical career I think of like wild wild west yeah Miami so this is what people were very upset about so like this is I literally thought that because Mike if he was good I assumed he would have been good I don't know so his his song summertime also won a Grammy that's the song I associate most will Smith of like the DJ Jazzy Jeff era, even though that wasn't like maybe his biggest one, but that one came in 91 after he'd started on Fresh Print. So basically the story is-Jay Jeff was the guy who came to the house and, like, fresh print. Yeah, they built a sitcom around him, essentially, around him and DJ Jazzy Jeff.

And so this is the very generic background that people explain to us because they were very upset with us for not remembering this or not knowing it. But basically, Will Smith, as the story goes, more or less got in. to acting because he had a massive tax debt that he needed to pay off because he wasn't like, the IRS was like garnering his weight or garnishing his wage, just garnering. What's the word? Garnish? That doesn't sound right.

Anyway, they were taking his money. And so he needed to make more money. And so he, I guess, NBC, like, built a sitcom around him. That's how I got into acting. Yeah. I just, I didn't know that either. A massive blind spot. Like, I'm thinking of like Will Enium.

That's in my head. That's what Will Smith. I mean, I should have, I should have been stronger in my defiance to, to both of you guys for that, because I knew this like in the back of my head. I just didn't remember it quickly enough because I knew he was like a big, you know, music star back in the day. And then it was, it coincided with the show. I just didn't know what was actually first. So, yeah.

So then in that case, Will Smith would certainly be the, but he still almost ruins the question. But yeah, he would get the best transition. But yeah, sorry, everyone emailed us. The other person who was shut out, Method Man. who's absolutely unbelievable in the wire. And actually just didn't like get handed it. He went and auditioned for the role. And he just showed up and like people were auditioning for the part.

And Method Man was just like a method actor, if you will. Also heard Queen Latifah was a big one. Oh, wow. That's actually, yeah, Queen Latifah, not bad. You know, there are. Who else did we forget? Eminem was like the whole eight mile Eminem thing. Did we say that?

No, he can't be your only acting. thing be about your own life that's like not acting he's just playing himself he's not even acting that's fair i think so be you that's not what you tell actors it's the only job is to not do that do we say ludicrous because was that how we got on the discussion yeah yeah we're talking about fast and furious anyway sorry for being dumb and not remembering will smith's history well i didn't remember i was not born so that was a huge i mean you could like read a book or listen to music you know even wikipedia works I think it's best we keep Will Smith's name out of our mess.

Oh, boy. Goodbye, everyone.