The Ringer NFL Show - Where to Draft Kelce, Waller, and the Other 2021 TEs

Episode Date: July 1, 2021

We run through each of our four tight end tiers, as well as a group of late-round sleepers, and determine the best spot to draft each player, if at all.  Tier 1 (3:03) Tier 2 (15:59) Tier 3 (22:23) Tier 4 (30:21) Sleepers (41:44) Check out our new top 150 half-PPR 2021 fantasy rankings here! Email us: [e-mail]. Hosts: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Court Fits is the Ringer's new weekly NBA video series hosted by Big Waz, a.k.a Wosney-Lambre. Each week, we take you around the world of NBA fashion and share can't miss style choices from your favorite players and keep you up to date on the latest news and releases in sneaker culture. Waz also talks to experts like Damian Lillard's personal stylists to give you behind-the-scenes looks at how the NBA's biggest stars choose their outfits. New episodes drop every Friday, so make sure you're subscribed to the Ringer's YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash The Ringer, so you never miss it. an episode. Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hyfitts, and I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlebeck. We've done a series of shows on our top targets for 2021, going by position players who love in fantasy this year, or just dudes who are just really good values, or just really good at football. And today we're going to talk about tight ends. We're going to

go through all the tight ends in our rankings, and we're going to go through them kind of an order by tiers, because I feel like more than any position you kind of think of the tight ends and tears. Yeah. And we're going to basically discuss where did we take these guys. But first, we have not discussed this. I am introducing a soft ban on this episode for the following words. When you're talking about tight ends, you're not allowed to say big, you're not allowed to say athletic, and you're not allowed to say the term played basketball. None of those things are allowed.

Played basketball is overplayed. I get that. Why can't we say they're big and athletic? Because they're all big and athletic? Yeah, it doesn't that matter? It's like, if everything is big and athletic, it's assumed. Like, tell me when a tight end is small and, like, not athletic. And then I'm going to assume the rest are big in athletic.

They're all six, six, six, two, 50, all of them. What if we're talking about, like, Jack Doyle? Can we say, unathletic? But, like, they're all six, six, two, 50, all of them. They're in the NFL. Just like the three of us. We are all six, six. Yeah, exactly.

Many people are saying, we're six to 50. If you want to pull up, like, a Thesaurus.com and you want to pull up, like, different words, then, like, sure. But the term athletic is not allowed. I'm not going to follow this, but that's fine. I appreciate where you're coming from. It's a soft band, D.K. I'm going to make a point to ignore it on purpose

and actually say athletic more now. The word athletic is such a specific meaning that is honestly can be interpreted in many different ways that when you Google synonyms for athletic, the number one choice on Google is muscular. Powerful. I think about it.

I'm on the source to come. I've got active, energetic, muscular, powerful, robust, which is funny. I honestly think none of it. of those words, I don't think any other word can match, can parallel what athletic means to me in my head. I mean, where's agile? All right, anyway. Should we get to the tight-in tiers? Coordinated, I think, is my number one. I think that's the closest. Coordinate? Yeah, you're actually right. That should be on there.

Anyway, let's talk about somebody who's very coordinated. Somebody's very coordinated. So the top tier of tight-end, it's just Travis Kelsey. That's the tier. Yes. Yes. It's rare that there's a player just in their own tier. It doesn't happen too often. You know what I mean? So he's in his own tier by a lot I just want to shout out I was looking up some stuff for Kelsey And so his last five seasons He's third in catches

And third and receiving yards Like not among tight ends just period Among all players All players He's third and catches Third and receiving yards Last five years And fifth in PPR points

And can I tell you What his last five years finished as a tight end Let me read it to you Tid in one Tide in two By 0.8 points Tide in one

Tide in one That's his last five years Sheesh Pretty fucking good I also want to shout out that same five year period. He has 50% more yards than the next closest tight end, who is Zach

Ertz. I mean, yeah, so we don't have to spend a lot of time on Kelsey, obviously, because he's the clear cut number one. I was going back last year, he averaged 17.4, half pvr points, which was three full points per game

more than the number two guy. And that's like, in a position, I had a position where there's really only a you guys that are actually going to make a big impact on your team right now. Three, like three half people are points more than the next guy, who is Waller. And Waller is pretty damn good, too. So, I don't know, Kelsey's just in, like, no one really compares to him. He lines up all over the field.

I was just looking at some stats from PFF. He lines up 37% of the time out wide, which is first in the NFL among tight ends. He's also in the slot 25% of the time. So he's basically, you know, lining up all over the formation at a higher. level than any other player, any other tight end. And he ran 556 routes, which is second in the NFL. 145 targets, 105 catches. He set a new NFL record with 1,416 yards tied for the most touchdowns. The dude is just elite. So, well, here's the question with Kelsey. So obviously is the number on tight end. It becomes just like, where do you take him? Yes. And I think that we've all been hesitant

to take him at the back end of the first round in like previous years. And we talk about it all the time. Like every year you don't take Kelsey in the first or second round And then you're like wow I really wish I had done that And so is this the year that Kelsey is a first rounder for you, DK? I mean Why is he not? Yeah, why is he not? If he's third and catches N yards

There's one reason and it's because he is a tight end And then on a fantasy roster honestly You can only start one tight end It makes them less valuable than wide receivers and running backs If you started three tight ends Kelsey becomes three times more valuable. So that is the only real thing. I mean, Hyatt's you reading out that he's third

and catches in receiving yards overall in the last five years might make him an outlier. But the only real argument is that because he plays a position that you can only get one of, the difference between the best and the worst guy is not as large as all the other positions on your roster. So that's the only reason. But could you also flip it and say you're locking in the advantage

at the tight-in position? And then you'll figure out the other positions later because you've got the advantage, And it's kind of like what we talked about with Christian McCaffrey you're like at least when he was healthy in 2019 it was essentially like you had

an extra player in the roster and that's what Kelsey is it's like you have an extra roster spot and so that's kind of what you're paying for at the back end. So I think we'd all agree that if you have like one of the first six picks

in the drafts not really, you're not really talking about Kelsey right? You've got McCaffrey, you've got Dalvin Cook, Derek Henry, Zeeke Elliott, there's Alvin Camere, there's Seekwan,

there's Jonathan Taylor. But like, when you get to that like Nick Chub, Tyreek Hill, Devante Adams, Aaron Jones. Is that when you start thinking about Kelsey? Yeah.

That's when you should. Yeah, that's absolutely what you should. I'm good at this year, because I have it in the past. I was not the type of guy who took Jimmy Graham or Gronk in the first rounds in, like, the mid-2010s. I did not do that. Were you guys that guy? I never took a tight end first. I just don't like taking that ends in the first round.

Me neither. You know what? I'm probably not going to do it again, and I'm going to fucking hate myself for it. Immediately regret it. Yeah. The only thing about Kelsey. that doesn't, his yards and catches kind of put him in an upper echelon, but he doesn't score the touchdowns that like past guys kind of have.

Like, Gronk, you know, had 18 touchdown seasons. Jimmy Graham, 16 touchdown seasons. Kelsey's only a double-digit touchdowns twice. That is like the only small little, little thing that he doesn't do that other guys do. And it is, it's interesting considering he's on a team that scores 50 to 60 touchdowns a year, yet he never scores double digits usually. Well, here's a weird thing about the Chiefs offense this year is like, it's going to look a little different.

I think obviously the offensive line they added a lot of offensive linemen because the Super Bowl was a disaster but DECA are you all worried about the chiefs like depth so to speak because they lost Sammy Watkins which shouldn't matter but they don't really seem to trust

their receiver group like Mikul Hardman has an opportunity to kind of step up but it's like not really clear if he's going to and then they got like Byron Pringle and people behind them it seems like they want to play like more two tight end sets with like Noah Gray and stuff but at the end of this is actually a really top heavy group it's just Kelsey and Tyree Kill now.

Does that bother you at all? Or it's Travis Kelsey, like, don't worry about it. I mean, I think if one of those guys got injured and we're out for an extended period of time, yeah, it would hurt their chances. And it's, it's something that you maybe want to have in the back of your mind if you're a chiefs fan. But I think you could really honestly say this about pretty much any team. You know what I mean?

Like, if their elite superstar player goes down, you're going to be relying on a guy who's not nearly as good. And so, I don't know. That's what you come here for, cutting analysis. Like, how many, how many teams, how many, how many teams can lose their top receiver and still have like a ton of really reliable playmaking depth?

Like maybe the Cowboys. Yeah. You know, how many teams? A handful? Steelers, yeah. But like at the end of the day, at the end of the day, like, football is one of those sports where,

you know, you're walking sort of like this real tightrope. You got to stay healthy. You got to stay healthy. You got to stay healthy. If you lose like your top elite guys, like your season can go to shit real quickly. So, yeah. I think it's like something to worry about,

but at the end of the day, like, every team has that worry. This brings me to an interesting question that I wanted to run by you guys. When do you start caring about age? Do you ever care? Is there an age where you're like, this, like, it hasn't shown yet on their body. However, this age, I'm going to knock them down to touch. When I got, I mean, getting kicked off your parents' health care is like, that's probably that's 25, 26.

26. 26. Well, honestly, that's an interesting. I feel like the whole curve has changed, right? like 10 years ago or 15 years ago, it was like really just like the 400 carry thing, right? The age almost didn't matter. It's like if you got 400 carries, that was a thing.

Then running backs, it was like kind of late 20s, 27, 28 was ancient. But now you're looking at it and you're like, is it, I feel like that curve has kind of changed. I mean, Craig, you're the one who's been saying for like months now

that like we have to reset what we think about injuries. Now that Kevin Durant's like the best basketball player in the world and that hurts his ankle and then gets the deal anyway. Like, I kind of feel that way about age a little bit too and not just because it's Tom Brady but also just I feel like counting out Travis Kelsey now

because what is he 32? He'll be 32 in October. 32 in October. It feels pretty dumb to count him out. I agree. And like you'd be like well I'd rather be a year early than you're late. Well I said that two years in a row.

Yeah, but now he might now is the time then. You know what I mean? Well yeah. Maybe I yeah. It's like when do you buy Bitcoin? Come on. When are we going to buy? When it's at 60 or you're late,

or do you wait until it's at 120 or you hope it goes down to 30? Whatever, you know what I mean? It's like, get on the train. It is. It's like the best time was like five years ago and the second best time is right now. Is Travis Kelsey Jimmy Graham and Gronk? Or is he Tony Gonzalez? Do you know what I mean?

Like, is he going to have five or six huge years? Or is it going to be Tony Gonzalez who was the Tidon 2 in 2012 when he was 36 and he was the Titan 1 in 1999 as well? I think he's Tony G and here's why. So Kelsey doesn't have like the ridiculous I mean knock on wood which I'm going to do He doesn't have the string of ridiculous injuries that Gronk has had That like I mean Grom could have kept going a lot longer

But like I'm talking about back and hip and forearm I mean I don't like a grizzly here But like it's a really fucked up injuries gronks had to go through that are immensely painful As the reason he retired And then Jimmy Graham was like really athletic and also had some injuries that kind of slowed him down The difference is Kelsey I think Said athletic did I really yeah he said Jimmy Graham is a swear jar

and athletic coordinator he's super he's super robust robust but Kelsey the thing with energetic that I think could keep him going is that Mahomes loves his they're on the same page like mentally like Kelsey was a quarterback in high school not a tight end I'm sorry not a basketball player was a quarterback in high school and Mahomes has talked

about how like Kelsey just knows when the play begins what defense the defenders are playing really quickly and he just sees what zone they're in and he just goes to the zone and he knows that it's sit in his own really quickly and that Mahomes and him like have that level of rapport also he's all the words

I'm not allowed to say large and humongous muscular, muscular, coordinated so that's the kind of skill set that ages well. Yeah, he's a savvier player. It's weird. The best titan in the league

was kind of a personality like Kelsey's where he's kind of like a TV show he's like kind of a guy who like enjoys being in the tabloids a little bit. Actually TV show. He made his own

bachelor, but he was the bachelor, which was ridiculous. I actually don't think Travis Kelsey's like the most flashy player. You know what I mean? He's kind of just like a, I wouldn't put him in the gronk Jimmy Graham category of like. Oh, really? I would. What do you mean by flashy though? I would.

He does the dances. Like George Kittle. No, I'm not talking about like celebration wise. I'm like his actual play. Kittle is like a psycho animal. Gromk was that way. Kelsey is not that way to me. He's like smart and kind of measured in the way he plays.

I feel like. Kind of just like a smooth. He's smooth. He just does his thing. Picks up yards. Kind of like Tony Gonzalez. So we were talking, so like he might be Tony Gonzalez. He might play until he's 39 or whatever.

But I was just looking at Jimmy Graham's career arc. Things started really going downhill. Obviously, it didn't help that he got traded to the Seahawks when he was 29. I mean, like, Torres-Petler, didn't he? If Kelsey left Mahomes, like, that wouldn't be good. He scored 10 touchdowns when he was 31 in 2017. two touchdowns, 2018, when he was on the Packers, three touchdowns in 2019.

I mean, he's still going, but he's definitely lost a lot of that luster, especially in the fantasy world. And then I was looking at Greg Olson's career. 31 was basically the last year, when he was 31 years old, it was basically the last year that he put up elite numbers. That was in 2016.

But he had a foot injury, didn't he? This is the thing. This is the problem. When you get injured, when you're 31, 32 years old, you don't come back from him. nearly as quickly or nearly as strong. And so these injuries can start adding up.

We can't predict injuries, of course. We can't predict what's going to happen. 31, 32 is when Antonio Gates dropped off. So we're getting into the danger zone for sure, I think. But at the same time, you can't predict it. You cannot say, I don't think, with any, like... There's nothing that has led us to believe that this will happen this season. Okay, so here's the thing, though.

We got to put, like, like, an actual specifics on this. It sounds like we're too scared to take. Kelsey at the end of the first. So are you taking him in the beginning of the second or like the end of the second or he's not falling outside the second? And honestly, you might not make it to the 15th pick. So we got to talk, like, are you taking him 12th? Are you taking 12th over Nick Chubb?

No. This is a test because we have him ranked 17th. I think that's way too low. I think it's going to be a lot higher. Yeah, so we're going to redo our rankings for the record. We were cowardly and put him over Nick Chub now. Yeah, I need to move everything around. because I really think

I mean as we get to the rest of this list I don't think tight end is once again that strong and other than like Darren Waller and like maybe one or two others Kelsey's going to be the fucking guy Nick Chubbs not even the guy on his own team maybe like Kelsey is

I think should be the first pick of the second round maybe I feel that way too because again it's to me it's this simple and I'm serious about this has anyone who's had Travis Kelsey since 2016 two presidents ago

on their fantasy team in the last five years. Has anyone regretted having Travis Kelsey? Like one person in America? No, unless they were pissed that he got tied in to that one year. So I think that's the kind of guy you take at the beginning of the second round. The thing we always talk about certainty. And also, if we're talking about injuries, like Nick Chub missed like how many games last year. Exactly.

So I think we're going to go with Kelsey. I think we agree. We'll hash out where we put them. Let's get to the next tier here, which is every, so like the elite, guys who are not Travis Kelsey. I think this is also a tier of his own, but we can discuss that. No, so I think I agree. Yeah, I agree.

Really. So we've got Darren Waller here and we've got George Kittle here. I look at these guys as capable of beating Kelsey in a given category, but neither of which have done it as consistently or long enough to be in Kelsey's tier. So Darren Waller and then we got George Kittle. We'll do Waller first. You think Waller does his own tier? Yeah.

I think Waller is like the second tier. There's Kelsey, there's the Kelsey tier and the Waller tier. I would put him over Kittle right now because, and we'll get to it, but Kittles situation makes me much more nervous. Waller, as opposed to Kittle, is in an offense that's going to pass a lot. He runs tons and tons of routes. He's not asked to block. He's essentially a receiver, and he is their number one receiver.

Kittle, on the other hand, is still, I'd say the de facto number one in that offense, but he's also being asked to block a lot. This is a run-heavyer scheme. He's going to be attached to a rookie quarterback, most likely. There's a lot more weapons. A lot of the part of the year. Yeah, and he's got a, he's going to have to, like, fight for targets with Brandon Ayuk, who came on strong last year.

It looked like a true alpha receiver. Debo Samuel, who's going to be healthy again, what they do in the run game. And, you know, going back to what we talked about, I believe the last episode or a couple episodes ago, like receivers and pass catchers who are attached to rookie quarterbacks generally speaking, you have to expect them to be, you have to temper your expectations. And so I guess the question is, do we think Traylands is going to start this year? I do.

I don't know how many games he's going to start, but he's going to start at some point, probably early-ish in the season. And so that helps me, that makes me temper my expectations for Kettle, even though he's still going to be like the number one guy in this offense. I think Waller, he's attached to Derek Carr, who's a veteran. He's going to be playing, he's going to be running a ton of routes. He ran 524 routes last year, which is fifth in the NFL. Like you want to look at routes for for for for tight ends. It's very important.

And generally speaking, Kittle is not running an elite number of routes because he's in a he's in a number one, a run first or run heavy offense and he's asked to block a lot. Because he's an amazing blocker. He's a really good blocker. So yeah, I mean, I think just generally speaking,

you're chasing the volume. You're chasing that reliable volume. I think Waller's a baller too. You know, I didn't mean to make that rhyme, but it sounds good. Waller's a baller. And he's just,

he's really legit good. I know Kittle has a reputation for being a beast and he is awesome too, but Waller is like, he's no slouch, man. Yeah, I mean, you talked about those stats

about Kelsey being like 30 catches and whatever in the last five years. I mean, last year, Waller let all tight ends and catches targets and red zone targets.

He was PFF's number two ranked pass catcher in 2020. I mean, if he was on the chiefs, he would be Travis Kelsey or like one tiny shade below him. Kittle... And he's younger.

Yeah. Kittle, we've talked to, I think I've mentioned this before, but Kittles like the outfielder who just sprints into the wall going for a fly ball. He plays too hard, and there's nothing against him. It's awesome, and he's fun to watch. But I am, injury proneness is not something I'm usually concerned with. But Kittles is kind of the exception where I'm like, kiddle style brings it on. I would say the pushback, but I would generally agree with that. Like it makes me nervous. I would say the injuries that he's sustained, though, haven't really been because he's playing that way. Like the, the, the, the knee. hyper extension thing that he had was because Garapolo aired him out, like, threw a pass really high, he hung him out to dry, sorry, by throwing a pass

really high, and then a defender came in low and tackle him. It was like, just like simple little screen pass and Kittle had to like basically go up high for it. And it was just an awkward situation. I don't remember what his other injury was last year. He's not like he's fractured his foot and he had a shoulder sprain. What we're talking about here is uncertainty. We're talking

about the uncertainty of his injuries, which for whatever reason, there have been more of them. and the uncertainty of what D.K. said about him playing with potentially a rookie quarterback of an unknown production level for an unknown period of time. There's just more uncertainty. And considering Roller is already that good, it's clearly Waller's the number two guy. So are you guys taking Darren Waller in like the mid-20s?

Like how good is Waller as like a, like we talk about Kelsey as a guy who's like an extra position? Is Waller basically that? And if so, are you taking him 20th over like A.J. Brown or Naja Harris? Are you taking him 30th over like Mike Evans? Like, where are you taking Darren Waller, D.K? Yeah, in the early 20s for me. Early 20s. How early in the 20s?

Well, I'm looking at my exact rankings right now. I've got him at 22 in half PPR. So that's where I'm taking him. But I mean, I would range anywhere from like 20 to 25, I think is like just fine if you like him over guys. So in that area, we've got guys like Marty Cooper, Clyde Edwards-Rlear, Keenan Allen, D.K. Metcalfe. Probably taking Metcalfo. Well, no, I might take Waller over him, too,

just because of the same question marks about volume and all that. What about George Kittle? How much further back is George Kittle in the overall rankings? Not a lot. Not a lot. I would say there's, I would put Darren Waller on his own tier, but I think the actual number of spots separating them isn't that great. Maybe like the late 20s for Kittle.

Okay. All right. Let's get to the next tier here. we've got, I think of these guys is like really good but they're just not they're not elite and like I guess they could become elite

but they're fine. We've got more. Let me just ask this though because it's funny, every season we talk about tight end breakouts and you know the guy who's going to join the elite tier of tight ends right now I feel like there's three

good tight ends in fantasy football and then a bunch of other guys that are probably going to be disappointing, right? well there's four there's there's there's there's there's the big three and then the big one cow pits and then yeah Kyle Pitts is the outlier here I think that the the weird thing is sometimes these guys come from nowhere but you're right decay there this tier could really be twice as long if we want yeah like it really could be so that's my question so mark andrews is next in our rankings he's fourth we've got tj hawkinson fifth and Kyle Pitts sixth but do you do you think of them

not even it's just a tier they're just folded in with like the next six guys I think they're just the guys who are more proven than the ones below them, but they have the same skill level. Yeah. I, no, I do think this is a good tier, Andrews-Hockinson-Pits. And in fact, I think I'm going to move-pits up. And here's what I think of these guys in a nutshell. Mark Andrews is probably going to, could at least, in theory, lead the Ravens and all the receiving categories.

Like, he can lead them in receptions, yards, and touchdowns. T.J. Hawkinson probably will lead the Lions in receptions yards, and touchdowns. And then Kyle Pitts, his, I mean, he's basically just a receiver. Like, he just could be the best tight-in prospect we've seen in, like, 50 years or whatever. So with that said, is it, is Andrews like too high or too low on this list? Here's a distinction. I'm just kind of look.

I'm looking at this. Here's a distinction you could say, hi, fits. All three of these guys, Andrews, Hawkinson, and Pitts are either the number one or number two pass catching option on their team. Is you get further down the list, none of those guys, you can't say the same about any of these guys, really. Maybe Robert Tonian. but I don't think I think Dallas Goddard I don't think Goddard

I don't think Goddard I think it's going to be I think it's going to be Devanté Smith and Jalen Rager their past two first rounders but we'll see we'll find out but I think that is a good delineation of this tier

which I do think is its own tier so sorry continue on what do you think about Mark Andrews well honestly the first thing this is not fair but I just think it drops but I think of Mark and this is not fair he's a really good player

but I think of him just dropping association games. Catches that have just kind of screwed over the Ravens over the last few seasons. But I guess when I'm really, when I think of Mark Andrews, and actually it's kind of similar

with the Eagles too, but like when I think of the Ravens right now, I'm thinking, what are they going to do? Because this is a team who lost in the playoffs last year because they couldn't pass the ball. And so that became a referendum.

Is Lamar not the quarterback they need? Or really, is this just not the receiving talent they need or is at the offense? So they went out and they got all these receivers. They got Sammy Watkins. They drafted all these. receivers in the draft.

But here's the thing, is this Greg Roman offense going to be more conducive to actual passing? You know what I mean? It's not necessarily like the rave. Just because you get the talent doesn't mean the scheme's going to be. So, Dika, do you think that they're actually going to have like a better passing scheme? Because how much does it matter to have like the highest volume receiver in the lowest volume passing offense? Right, right.

I do think they're going to be more efficient as a passing team. I think, and like you kind of alluded to to there, they've. they've told us by their actions that they want to be a better passing team. You know, two first round receivers in the last three years. They went to sign Sammy Watkins. They grabbed, you know, a guy in the third round in Devon Duvernay. They grabbed Thailand Wallace this year, I think, in the fifth round, fourth round. I can't remember what it was.

So they're telling us they want to upgrade their pass catching core. They want to be a better passing team. However, I don't think that necessarily means they want to be a higher volume passing game. or passing team. And I saw, I think J.G. Zacharisen from Numberfire was, he posted a podcast about this the other day where basically you can expect when a team runs more than expected, like really, really like an outlier team in terms of how much they run. Generally speaking, you can expect that team to pass more the next season.

However, Greg Roman has been like the exception to the rule on that. Like his teams are always like sort of outlier run heavy teams. So we'll see what happens this year. I think there's the Greg Roman history and the things that the Ravens have been doing, the moves they've been making, which are, like, I think speaking to us and telling us something.

I'm trying to balance. I don't know what to believe, really. So at the end of the day, I'm not expecting a huge volume increase. I think they are going to increase slightly. And that could be good. It could be good enough to make Mark Andrews, especially if he's the number one guy,

like in this offense, the de facto number one. I think it could make him a top three, top two, tight end in theory. But he has to get over the drops, which happened way too often in the hugest moments last year. So he has to make sure he's past that. And then I think overall, like Lamar Jackson just has to be a little more efficient than he was last season. But I think it's all doable. I think it's possible.

Okay. So we've got Andrews, we've got Hawkinson, who we've talked a lot about basically Google the lines at that chart. You'll see why we like receiver. You'll see why we like Hawkinson. So about Kyle Pitts again. I like I Craig I think you're

are you the Kyle Pitts captain for us this season I think I would take him over Mark Andrews and T.J. Hawkinson because this is in the past this is the dead zone for tight ends the like four five six seven range is exactly where you don't want to draft tight ends because I agree

they always seem you know they're kind of pitched as the guys who could make the leap into the elite category but they never do they're the fake breakout guys yes and you actually always just want to get the tight end 12, 13, 14, and then that, and, you know, if you're smart enough to draft the right one, who can finish is the tight end seven. But drafting the seventh

or sixth ranked tight end never works out. You have to put somebody there and a guy like T.J. Hawkinson on the shitty lions. Like, I would just way rather take Kyle Pitts, the best prospect ever with the best or second best offensive coach in the league with an MVP quarterback without Julio Jones. To me, as Sean McVeigh said, he's going to be like, where's Waldo all over? the field. I think we should, that's his nickname. I think it should be Kyle Waldo Pitts. Kyle Waldo. So we still got to figure out the Mike Davis nickname. Thank you to everyone who emailed us the nicknames. Funk Davis. We'll get to that at the end. To me like Jared Goff and Hawkinson, like, I see the stats here and you can read them, D.K., but like, yeah, I don't know.

I agree that it's, you're going to rather, when it's week six, you'll rather have Kyle Pitts in your team. You're going to spend like a late fourth or an early fifth on T. T.J. Hawkinson, when you could have had Robert Tonion or Tyler Higby four rounds later. I don't know. Yeah, this is like a situation. Like, Hawkinson is literally the most boring option, and Pitts is the sexiest, most fun, exciting option. And it's, like, hard to decide where you should go with this just because, you know, like it's sort of like a head versus heart thing.

Like, my head is telling me, oh, you know, tight ends never really break out. They're the rookie season. Like, he's going to disappoint us, blah, blah, blah, with Pitts. And then, you know, my heart is telling me, like, he's the funest player in this draft. You know, he's going to do things we've never seen from the position before. Meanwhile, Hawkinson, yeah, like, it's such a boring, boring pick. The Lions' offense is going to suck.

It's called fantasy football. Like, in your fantasy football team, Kyle Pitts is your tight end if you can't get Travis Kelsey, Jared Waller. They're not going to score a lot of points. I want to point out one stat, though, real quick on Hawkinson, I thought was very interesting. This is from Fantasy Points, Jake Trivia. I saw this on Twitter. Three of the last four seasons, Jared Goff has less.

the NFL in past attempts to the slot. So, Hawkinson isn't a true slot receiver. However, he's going to be doing a lot of his work over the slot. He lined up in the slot 40% of the time last year. He got a lot of slot snaps. I think this upcoming season,

they're probably going to have to give him more slot snaps. So I don't know, man, that's the only thing that's like keeping me in on Hawkinson, despite all the boring thing and everything. So imagine you're sitting there. It's the fucking late fourth, fifth round of your draft. And you're deciding between T.J. Hawkinson and Kyle Pitts, do you think that looking at Jared Goff's slot target percentage over the last five years now that he's in the lines? Is that going to take you over the edge to select Hawkinson?

Fuck no. No, it will not. I think this is going to have to be reflected in our updated rankings because Pitts. I think Pitts is the tight end four. Yeah, we're going to have to hold us. Yeah. I think we just decided it, didn't we? Yeah.

We just decided this. All right, let's see if we stick to it. Okay, so let's keep going. This is where Titan just becomes a goddamn crapshoot for me. Yes. I got to be honest, these guys are somewhat interchangeable. We've got Dallas Goddard and the Eagles, Noah Fant in the Broncos, Logan Thomas and Washington, Tyler Higbee and the Rams.

That's our overall. And we also got Robert Tunyon for the Packers. Mike is sicky for the Dolphins. We got Gronk for the bucks. Like, here's the thing. I look through these guys and I'm just like questions. Dallas Goddard and Eagles. What offense are they going to run?

Are they even going to have Jailin Hertz running a lot as a quarterback? are they going to make them pass, which is like square peg round hole? I don't know. Noah fan. Is Teddy Bridgewater the quarterback or is Drew Locke the quarterback? I feel like it kind of matters for Drew Fah for Noah fan. Logan Thomas,

how real was last year? He was a 30-year-old breakout? That's kind of weird. And then Tyler Higbee, how big is the role going to be with Jared Evergan? Where it's like, we just went through this last year with him as a big sleeper can. It didn't really work.

And then Robert Tonian just like had this explosion year, but like is Rogers going to play? And even if he does, like is that sustainable? Like, these guys all feel like upside mixed with track. This is the best argument you've ever made for why you should just take Darren Waller or Travis Kelsey. It's whack-a-mole. Tide-end is so stressful every season.

There's nothing worse than taking like a Tonian and then you're like week three, he hasn't put up more than six points in a game and you're like, God damn it. Like, what do I do? Do I go waver-wire? Do I try and add Gerald Everett? And you're like, oh, you know, the guy who's got Kelsey over there. He's putting up 20 a game. That's pretty nice.

I wish I did that. It feels like in fantasy baseball, if you have like a bad catcher, or even like this, you're kind of like a shortstop, and you're kind of scrounging. And you're like, oh, maybe I can pick up like Joey Wendell or something at shortstop. Like it's just,

it's just really annoying. And like, you're right. Like, part of fantasy involves like, you know what? I don't want to be grinding waivers and talking myself into like,

maybe I should read Mike Gasecki after he didn't do anything for six weeks and his like manager cut him. You know what I mean? It's just, it's not fun. What are the odds you're going to hit on this guy? Like,

you know what I mean? One of these seven might be a top four guy, but like, what are the odds? to you guys that you are most confident will hit. Great question. I think Logan Thomas, but I'm not even that high on Logan Thomas

because I think in an offense this year with Curtis Samuel, he's going to steal some of the snaps that or some of the targets that we saw at Logan Thomas get last year. And also, I think just in general, Ryan Fitzpatrick, he's pushing them all downfield. He's aggressive.

He's not going to be checking down to the tight end like 12 times a game. Like they were, like all these, quarterbacks were last week, last year. I don't think it's checkdowns. I actually like Logan Thomas because I feel like, so they added Curtis Samuel in the offseason. I don't believe in Curtis Samuel.

I'm not a Samuel believer. I feel like the things that Curtis Samuel does are more valuable to real NFL teams than fantasy teams. Like you know what's valuable with Curtis Samuel? He runs a 4-3 and he can line up in the backfield and outside. So what he runs from like, he motions across the field, the whole defense is like, oh shit, oh, shit. And then he doesn't do anything.

He's Tavon Austin. And then Logan Thomas is open in the middle. That's how I, so I actually. think Logan Thomas could be the number two guy on this team. And that's kind of what we're looking for to join that next tier with Andrews and Hawkinson and Pitts. But it still feels like whack-a-mole. Yeah, it does.

I think Noah Fant has a decent shot. He kind of tricked all of us last year, not tricked us, but we all kind of got wrapped up by his injury riddled season. I mean, he was the tied-in three in the first three weeks of the season. It was kind of like, wow, this guy's going to be one of the next guys. And then he got a high-angle sprain, and then like two weeks later, a chest injury, and then like two weeks later re-injure that ankle

and he was never the same since week three. So what are we looking for though? Because that's important. Are we looking for someone like, because again, you can wait on these guys. You could be those last

or second last person in your league to take a tight end and still get one of these dudes. So are you looking for serviceable? Like tight end seven, he's not going to embarrass me or are you just like,

eh, fuck it. I'm shooting for a tight end like a top three, top four season. And if I don't get it, I'll cut him and I'll just like stream. I think you want to,

I think you're looking for exactly what I, we were just talking about. You're looking for the guy who's going to emerge as the number two option in his offense. I think Dallas Goddard

could. I don't think no offense going to. You got Cortland Sutton, you got Jerry Judy, I agree. K.J. Hamler, whoever else,

Tim Patrick is even pretty good. No offense is going to be like tertiary or worse at best, I feel like. Even though I think he's maybe the most talented

guy on this list, Goddard could pretty easily be the number two option in the Eagles offense if things fall right. Jalen Hertz is going to throw the ball 12 times a game and when he doesn't be not going to be on top. My favorite the Eagles offense is I actually think Nick Siriani is the head coach.

It seems like there might not be the, they might try to have him pass more than you'd think. I don't actually know, which might not even be a good thing for the overall team. But I think you're right. Goddard is to me that I actually think Goddard will be better than Jalen Rager this season. I think D.K. and I disagree on that. But. Well, I'm not, I don't feel strongly. So I could see it. I could certainly see it.

But who else, D.K., who else in the top 10, 12? do you think it's like potential to have like the number two impact on their offense? Yeah. So I think there's a couple guys. I think Robert Tonian is a player that everyone seems to be forgetting about despite the fact that he scored 11 touchdowns last year. But the reason for that is he scored 11 touchdowns on 52 catches, which is absolutely absurd touchdown rate. He caught 52 of his 59 targets. Like his efficiency both as a just a receiver and a touchdown score has got.

to be like completely outlier territory like probably he's probably historic next year. However, again, if Aaron Rogers comes back, he could be the de facto number two guy in this offense, I guess, especially like in the red zone for Aaron Rogers, who I think is a guy who leans on the guys he trusts. He clearly trusts. He clearly trusts Tanya. I mean, are you going to go out and really trust like Marcus Valis Gantling? He got a Marty Rogers as a rookie. You know, I don't even know for sure if Alan Lazard is going to be playing a lot. It's, it's up in the air, basically what's going on with this receiver core for the Green Bay Packers. And so, I don't know, is Tanya and a guy who could, again, like, catch 10 touchdowns and

be this bankable guy week in week out? I don't know. He's sort of, like, in that gronk zone where, like, you're hoping for a touchdown. And last year, he certainly provided those. The other guy, I think is interesting is Tyler Higby, who's, again, sort of like a post-type sleeper last year, we were expecting potentially this big breakout because in 2019, he finished the season, he caught 43 passes for 522 yards and two touchdowns in the last five games. He hit four straight 100-yard games, which was an all-time NFL record, I believe.

That's a tight-end position. And basically the idea and the theory and the thought is a guy who can do that is pretty rare, like a tight end who can do that, who has the athleticism, sorry, high fits, the athleticism, the dynamism to be a number like one receiver, four straight 100-yard games. there's just not that many guys in the NFL who can do that like athletically physically talent-wise so are we sleeping on Higbee again this year

because now that Gerald Everett's gone in theory they're going to do more you know involve him more in the past game you know his ground level stats are not good like his routes run like the amount he stays in to block all that it's not like super encouraging but I don't know just a guy who can do that

who has proven that and has shown that in the NFL is like at this position especially where there's just slim pickings everywhere. I think that's what makes him interesting. So he's another guy that could potentially end up being, you know, a breakout star or whatever. Yeah, like Higby. I think he's probably in the higher end of these like six to 12 guys. I like him more than I like Kisicki and Tanya and I don't know about Dallas Goddard.

But yeah, I mean, you can't underrate the fact that the offense is going to look so much better than it has the last two years. and when he went off in 2019, the Rams weren't going nuts that year. Like, it's not like Jared Goff was playing at an MVP level that year and, like, he's still produced. So I think there's something to be said that, unlike the guys on every other team here, maybe Logan Thomas with Ryan Fitzpatrick,

he's going to just be in a much better situation than he was in the past. I agree with that. One other guy I want to shout out here is Mike Yosicki for the Dolphins, who I did not like last year. And the reason I didn't like him was that the... I flopped on. him. I liked him last year. Well, the dolphins had Ryan Fitzpatrick, and they brought in Chan Galee to be their

offensive coordinator. And Chan Galee just doesn't really use tight ends so much, and he doesn't really have a long history of like, and I know Mike Gisicki is really a slot receiver. Like, I think Mike Gisci lined up 90, more than like 95% of the time in the slot. But regardless, I think the fact that Fitz and Changeli are no longer there actually really helps Gisiki, and I think that he's way more likely to be integrated to the offense this year. Now, I don't actually know how I feel about the Dolphins offense, but I do want to say I'm not a Gisiki Hater anymore. I just don't know what's going on.

They have Will Fuller in Waddle now and Tua will he be good? D'K, do we believe in Tua, him and his six interception practices? Yeah, I think so. So, Hyfitz, to what you just said, Gisiki in 2019, ran 82% of his routes either in the slot or out wide, which I think was by far the most in the NFL. In 2020, though, his numbers kind of dipped a little bit in that area. He, 67% of the slot in the slot, 19%.

out wide. So actually, when you take it all together, he was like barely ever lining up inline. So, I think the idea is, yeah, he's a slot receiver, blah, blah, blah. But again, he's going to get, I think, replaced more or less in this offense by Waddle, Will Fuller. Again, Devante Parker coming back healthy. Preston Williams. You got Preston Williams.

Coming back, potentially healthy. This is one of the deeper receiving cores in the NFL, and Mike is like he's kind of on the inside looking out, because he's not really a blocker. And like, I don't know, How do you guys feel about the dolphins in general? Do you, I mean, they have two offensive coordinators. I think it was the running back coach and the tight-ins coach. I don't know how that's going to work.

Yeah, this is, wait, let's hold here for a second. This is worth staying on. The dolphins haven't really named a play caller. Like they're splitting, I believe, between the running backs coach and the Titans coach, and they haven't really admitted or explained who will be game-playing every week. And they seem to be treating it like a running back committee, but for play-calling? That sounds like it'll work, yeah. which I can't remember the last time that that was a thing.

And so it's forget knowing what the offense is going to look like. That just, who knows? Yeah, I would avoid, I guess if you want to, I guess like you might fall in drafts if you want to really take a shot in the dark, like take him and. He's worth a flyer. Johnny Smith or something, but. Again, it's whack-a-mole Tidend.

And so I think this just comes back to what we were saying at the top where Kelsey, like you can make an argument. And that's what fantasy is. Like, you're talking yourself into your player. There was an argument here for Noah fan to have his breakout. Like he's a first round player and like really

we're not saying a foot robust and vigorous and he could have like a big breakout. Dallas Goddard like could be the number two guy for the Eagles. Logan Thomas was really good last year. Tyler Higby again, the 2019 thing.

Robert Tunyon 11 touchdowns like gronk is gronk. You can very easily talk yourself into these dudes but probably they're going to disappoint you. And so I think Kelsey and Waller it's that to Craig's point like that is the argument for these dudes. you're getting this certainty.

Where are we at on Chris Herndon? Craig. Is he dead to us? I need to see how training camp goes. He is definitely not a post-a-passes. Apparently, he's having, he's been, I saw this report, I believe it was from the athletic. He's been struggling to learn the playbook. So things are just not looking good right now for the Herndon hype.

So you mentioned, Craig, you mentioned Johnny Smith. I think that's another one that's interesting worth bringing up here because the patch tight ends in general. Who do you like more? Yeah. In your gut. Well, so first of all, when you're looking at guys, looking at players who could potentially be the one

or the number one or number two option in their offense, I think in theory, whatever tight end ends up being the past catching tight end on the Patriots would be that guy. However, now that Johnny Smith and Hunter Henry are both there, it's creating enough confusion and enough uncertainty that neither of them are going in the top 12, or at least we don't have them in our top 12.

Let me ask you guys a question. You have to take a risk on one of them, I guess, though, right? If only one of those tight ends was traded to New England, where would they be right now in the rankings? That's a good question. Pretty high. I think they'd be mid-level. They'd probably be right there around Goddard.

I think they'd be around Goddard, Fenton, LaTon. They'd be top eight, for sure. And we just don't, like, it was just Hunter, Henry or Smith. Like, I think they'd be pretty high, honestly, because it'd be really easy to try myself into it. But it's, here's the thing. I actually could see a world where they're both pretty relevant. Yeah.

But. Well, we obviously have the example of Hernandez and Gronk. Yeah, here's the thing. Other than Aaron Hernandez being a murderer and that being a really awkward thing to bring up, the other part of that that doesn't work is that Rob Grikowski is the greatest tight end that's ever played football.

And that kind of helped how good they were. Neither of Johnny Smith or Hunter Henry's the greatest tight end who ever played football. And Hernandez was really fucking good too. Yeah, like it just, they're not that good. Like, that is not the example. Yeah, you're probably right. They also had Tom Brady.

That kind of helps too. Now they have Cam Newton who might be the opposite of Tom Brady. can I throw Let's go through some other guys That like are not in the top 10, 12 that I think could emerge Can I throw out one guy that I feel like is really obvious No one's discussing?

Sure It's Zach Ertz So here's the thing Speaking of Goddard Zach Ertz is not going to be on the Eagles in week one Like 80% 90% likelihood Just the way his contract extension didn't work out He's just he's gonna get traded almost definitely

The bills are like the leading candidate I feel like right now, Zach Ertz is a fantasy afterthought because he's not going to be on the team. But once he's on a different team, if he goes to Buffalo, why is Zach Ertz not a top 10 tight end? It's a great call.

He's 30 years old. He's 30 years old. He's not 31 until November. I mean, he's one season removed from having 88 catches. I feel like, so with Earths, I'm like, I'm trying to like make sure

I don't say anything. that's just a hot take. My first thought was like, this isn't very good. Whoa. But you're telling me that you'd rather... It's not a good take, but like,

at the same time, he was just such in the perfect scenario for him to get peppered with volume. I think he's Jason Witten. But the whole team, he's not Jason. The whole team came apart in Philadelphia.

If we're even going to remotely buy into the Carson went to come back, and I kind of am, if Zach Ertz, I mean, again, we're talking about a guy, Didn't he like almost lead the NFL and targets a few years ago? I understand that there's been injuries and slowed.

But that was a terrible situation for him to succeed. The Eagles, the last few years, they imploded in every possible way. Wentz had a meltdown. Both off it, like the left tackle and right tackle got hurt and the backups got hurt like two years in a row. Like everything melted down to the core and he was hurt. You put him in Buffalo. This is a team that's knocking on the door of the Super Bowl. He's like a veteran leader.

He's been to the Super Bowl. He's won a Super Bowl. And also he's the number two guy. the bills got rid of John Brown. I get they brought in Emmanuel Sanders, but like Zachert's at this stage, you're telling me he's not better than Emmanuel Sanders. I feel like he can,

and the bills pass more on first down than any team in the NFL, don't they? Like, I just feel like that's a really good situation. Why is it, why have no teams trade for him now? I can't answer that. But like this whole thing is predicated on that happening by training camp.

Yeah. Well, no. Well, the rub on Earths, I mean, I remember two years ago. He's not being drafted in leagues right now. That's my point.

Two years ago when we would talk about him, I mean, the whole thing about him was his consistency. That's why I'm comparing him to Jason Witten because Jason Wooden, because Jason would just seem to like plod his way to the same stat line every year. Zach Ertz was like the only guy, I believe in like all of tight ends who had at least 75 catches in 800 yards every single season for like the past four years.

I mean, even if he's not Darren Waller and he's like going to beat somebody up the sideline for a 40-a-touchdown, if he's on the bills, like he'll catch like 60 to 70 balls for like 700 yards, I think, at a minimum. Which already puts him at like the 10. tight-in seven. I agree. I just think that are, to me, of the guys outside the top 10 or 12, and you're like, hey, one of these guys outside the top 12 will be top five, and you could have had him.

The one that's the most logical to me is Earth's. But, D.K., if there's someone else out there, who do you think it is? Where are we at on Evan Ingram, buddy? What's going on? He's not even on our dock. Dude, Evan Engram is... Dude, I love that. He should be.

Honestly, I don't think I put Evan Engram here to spite. Evan Engram, remember when I said Mark Anger's, like, I think of him as drops. That's Evan Angram. Evan Angram is so frustrating because when he is like when he's he's off he's not playing a lot because he's hurt and when he's playing I think he like was second in the league and drops after Deontay Johnson and Deontay Johnson got benched on like national television for drops and like second was Evan Engram and they were all important like they were important catches like like the Giants would have beaten the Eagles on Thursday night football of Evan Engram had like that game where Daniel Jones fell in his face the Giants would have won that game if Edvin Ingram had caught like a pass and third down at the other. of the game. Oh my God.

That play was so funny. He needed one first down. So. I don't know if it's in my young person nature to just zag when anyone everyone else is zicking, but I'm like, oh, I can tell you you're a zagger. I promise you're a zacker. Uh, I know. Ingram might be too big of his zag.

Well, here's the thing with Ingram. It's like, listen, just physically, where does he rank among tight ends? Let's say he's healthy. He's like top. Athletically? Are we talking about athletically? The word is a good athlete, you know. I'd say he's top 10.

Yeah. He runs a 4-4. He's a slot receiver. He's not a blocker. He's in the Gisicki mold. Like, he's not... And that's the problem. It's like, you've got Ghaladee now.

You've got... The problem of Engram is that he doesn't have a future with the team. Like, Cadarius Tony's the first round pick. You've got... They just signed Kenny Goliday. I think Darius Slaten's, like, actually a pretty good player. Like, Evan Engram is not the kind of guy to me that, like, has a future. And therefore, I don't know how much he'll be playing in the final two months of the season.

Yeah, I think you're right. And that's why I'm not very excited about it. I got Carl Rudolph. of they have with him. Also, yeah, Kyle Rudolph too. Daniel Jones. Well, that's another thing that we haven't mentioned here, but when you talk about trying to figure out

the second option or third, I think the worst, Craig said this a few years ago, and I've really stuck with me, worse quarterbacks target their best guys more. Because of the, it's the inverse of a principle of like Drew Brice. What is like Drew Brice famous for?

Spreading the ball around. Like, Drew Breast has gotten more guys their first current touchdown than like anyone in F history. Like Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, like those guys are the guys who're like, oh, he's completed his first 10 passes, the first 10 different receivers because they can go through the progressions of a play. Aaron Rogers and Brady and Breeze are smart enough where they in two seconds,

they can look at the first, second, third, fourth, and then find the fifth option. But lesser quarterbacks can't do that. So it's really hard to rely, for example, on Drew Locke to find his third progression enough to get Noah Fant enough viable looks to be fantasy relevant. And that's why relying on like third options for bad quarterbacks is not great. Yeah, and the most common tight ends that break out are guys in their second or third year with good quarterbacks.

Not surprising. And that's what, all right, one more guy I have to throw out here on this note that I'm torn on is Adam Troutman for the Saints. This is a nice great sleeper. This is a great sleeper. Like this, I'm not going to say it's Jimmy Graham again because, again, Jimmy Graham, like, had Drew Brees,

and Drew Brees is gone. but this is still a Sean Peyton offense. He is the tight end for the Saints. And like everything we just said about the Patriots and who's it going to be, the Saints got rid of Jared Cook and they got rid of Josh Hill. Adam Troutman's the guy. He was a third round pick last year. So they believe in him like clearly.

And then they were confident enough from what they saw him. He didn't play a ton. But what he did play actually was very productive. And they're confident enough from what they saw. Like yes, screw it. He's the tight end. That's like kind of rare to not really give a second year tight end competition. That means Sean Payton's pretty confident.

now again if jamis is the quarterback versus hasham hill matters a lot but if james is the quarterback for the saints I think Adam Troutman could be really good

because he he to me is a really good sleeper candidate to lead the Saints in everything after Michael Thomas like Michael Thomas leads them in every category Camar I guess would be too

but like Troutman could be right there I have no I have no counter argument I think he's a good sleeper I don't trust it 100% but I think he's free in terms of guy yeah in terms of guys

that could really outplay what they're expected to play this year. He's absolutely one of them. I guess he's the kind of guy that if you have a big first two weeks, I would pick him up immediately. That's really more of what he is. I feel like I need to throw out one more guy, and you guys are making me do this, and you're going to make fun of me before being a homer.

But Gerald Everett for the Seahawks is another good sleep. You assholes made me say it. Is he big an athletic? Someone else pick a Seahawk. Did he play basketball? Oh, man. He's got beast mode in him. He's so good after the catch.

The Seahawks are clearly excited. about him. I know Pete Carroll's already been talking him up. He could be their number three receiver. He's pretty clearly going to be their number three receiver. That's not ideal but if either D.K. McK. McHaf or Title Lock could go down. He's like the de facto

number two. Again, it's a flyer late in the draft, but I think he's worth kind of looking at. He's a second round pick. He's with Shane Waldron, who was the O.C. in the Rams last year now. He's with Seattle who knows Cheryl Everett. He's been awesome. I mean, he passes the

I mean, he popped in that legend. He popped in the 54, 51, one in a football game. He had like two touchdowns in that game. Like, he looks, he's always looked way better than his stats have said. He gets, so that's the thing. It's like he always starts doing, this is what's happened in his career, I feel like. He's got, he's, he's shown out, he's flashed, had a big game or had a couple really nice plays, and then he gets hurt.

And things go back and he like, he takes back over, uh, or whatever. And he has, he like, has a hard time getting back into the flow of things. But hopefully if he can stay healthy, I think he's got, he's a really talented guy. He was, I believe, Sean McVeigh's first pick ever as a head coach. He was the second round pick the year that McVeigh took over and correct me if I'm wrong. It could have been. Yeah, I think you're right. I think this is his fifth year.

Craig's the McVeigh whisperer. Yeah, ask your buddy. But regardless, he was the second round pick. Like, he's a talented guy. I think it's just not having for him yet, really. Yeah, and like the Seahawks have a history. I mean, like, Russ has had a good tie-end. Like, he had Jimmy Graham for a while.

Like, he did keep him afloat. Like, Graham had, like, nine. yards one season. Like the Seahawks have used tight ends in the past. They know they don't seem like a tight end team because they've had like Will Disley the past two years. But it's not out of the question that, you know, ever, it could be relevant this year.

I like him. I think he's a good sleep. Yeah. All right. Do you guys want to read the nicknames people emailed to us from Mike Davis nickname suggestions? Sure. Yeah.

Okay. So again, Mike Davis, I'm pretty confident that if he had a better name, he would be going like two full rounds, Iron Fantasy drafts. But he's Mike Davis. So we're going to give him a, nickname. Fantasy

Ringer Fantasy Football at Gmail.com emails we got from Alex just call Mickey D. Huge sponsorship deal. Huge sponsorship opportunity. Pretty good. It's fine. We've got

someone said just instead of Mike Davis, call him Davis Michaels from Sean. Davis Michaels. How about Mike Dave? Mike Dave. Okay, Sean also recommended Gus the Greyhound for Gus the bus.

I just want to throw that one out there. He's like not. I like how My first image of a greyhound is like a really, really skinny, skinny dog. Well, no, he's talking about the greyhound bus. Oh, I know, I know. Like, the visual doesn't work. We've got Trevor said Flavertown Davy.

Why? Flavortown. Jason wrote in saying that it should be Flash Funk. So it's Trey Flash, Mike Funk combined Flash Funk. We're just like completely erasing his name. just giving him two new names. I'm down for that. No, honestly, I think that what we can't,

I actually don't think he got new. He needs to run our test it and just go full meta world piece. He just needs to do something crazy. So, I forgot about that. Maybe I'm like behind the curve on this one. The meta world peace thing, I don't think I ever really thought about the meta part of it. Yeah.

I just thought about the world piece. I never occurred to me like, what is meta world piece? The boberdom of his timed. It does make you a thing. Anyway, I think we should stick with Mike Funk Davis. I think we should call him Funk Davis. Yeah.

After all that. He is back to, his name is now meta-artest. I don't know if you guys knew that. What do you think? Do you think we could find the person at like the California DMV who like processed his license request? Probably. I think that'd be a very uninteresting interview. They'd be like, yep, he turned into his paperwork and I was trying to get through the day.

That's good point. That's why Craig's the producer. Just wanted to go home, man. I work at the fucking DMV. I don't care what people change their name to. All right, speaking, which should I get through a day here? All right, thank you, everyone for listening. Thank you to DK.

Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Lorne. Lord? Thanks, Stan Gets. I don't know who that is. I also don't know. Wow, Zoomers over here. Who's Dan Gets?

You know, like jazz. What are you, Ryan Gosling and La La Land? Jazz isn't on my Spotify year-end playlist, no. You don't like jazz? Get it on there. Get it on there, high fits. Homeboy, was big in like the 50s.

He's got good music. I've missed a lot of movies and TV shows and stuff I should watch but I don't give me some shit about not knowing Stan Gets. Like, miss me with that. He died 91. I was not alive then. Yeah, shout out. What were you doing this weekend that you're like shout out Stan Gets?

Seriously. I listen to Stan Gets. I like jazz. Listen, we will now finish every episode along with the Lorne in the D.K. Band with calling out for anyone who knows Mariah Carrie. Reach out. We love you, Mariah Carey. If you have Mariah Carey's ear,

I bet we could get this rights to Stan Gets. A lot easier we could get the rights to Mariah Carey. Does Stan Gets have a song titled Fantasy? You tell me, D.K. Good question. Good question. D.K., does it? Not that I know of. Okay. All right. We'll work on it.

No, seriously, Mariah Carey, please. Ring your Fantasy Football at Gmail.com. Reach out.