The Ringer NFL Show - 10 Questions About the 10 First-Year Head Coaches

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

Sheil Kapadia and Nora Princiotti answer 10 questions about first-year head coaches, ranging from most likely to win coach of the year to most likely to go viral. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Nora Princiotti Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So welcome to the Ringer NFL show, Shield Capadia, here, joined by the great Nora Princeiotti. we are talking first year head coaches today. Nora had the boots on the ground visiting with some of those first year head coaches. So she is the perfect person to talk to. There are 10 of them overall, which is kind of shocking when I counted them up. But we're going to go through a series of questions, a series of categories. And we're going to look at some of these coaches and see which ones fit each category.

So Nora, thank you for joining me. What is your confidence level that I'm going to be able to get us through all these in like 25 to 30 minutes? No, my confidence level in Eushel is. extremely high. There we go. All right. Let's get going here. First one is pretty easy, I think. We start out with an easy one. Which coach is best positioned for immediate success? Who do you got? Is there, there's an obvious answer here, right? Yeah. So it's definitely Todd Bowles. And so I spent the earlier part of this week in Jacksonville, which we'll talk about a little bit, I'm sure, and then in Tampa. And, you know, I got to Tampa a day after Julio Jones.

And the dominant vibe of that camp is just essentially like the thing that didn't, the thing that stood in their way from getting where they wanted to go last season was just injuries. And I think they looked at this off season and went, we have the best recruiting tool in sports in Tom Brady. And other than the 40 day span when they may have thought that they weren't going to have that recruiting tool in place, the rest of it was spent just going, okay, we're going to bring back everybody that we possibly can and shore up the places that we need to receiver depth really hurt them at the end of the season last year.

And Tom Brady calls Russell Gage, brings them in. Obviously, Julio, it's not totally clear to me how much he has left to offer them, but he's something. And I, for one, don't want to be on record being like Tom Brady and Julio Jones can't make anything happen together. So in one sense, there's some pressure on Bowles just because they have high expectations. But on the other hand, like, he's been handed the keys to a Ferrari. And he actually might be sitting in the passenger seat.

And that's not to take anything away from him and the job that he's going to do. I think Todd Bowles is a good coach. But Brady and Leftwich are doing the offense there. He really just has to keep coordinating that defense. And it is a very good roster. and I think that thing is just like going to keep humming. It's such a great situation for him. I mean, you think about his like career path.

I mean, I was covering the Eagles in 2012 and he was like the defensive coordinator on this train wreck season. And so I have images of him just being like, oh my gosh, what is going on here? We're four and 12. You think of the Jets tenure. Some of the other stops he's been. And you said it. I mean, this is unprecedented. Like a coach getting to be a new head coach with an MVP caliber quarterback.

Doesn't have to worry about the offensive play calling. the defense has been top 10 in the last three years. Like this team is loaded. And I know we have the Ryan Jensen injury and there are going to be some questions with their offensive line for sure. But, man, I still look at the NFC. And I was just looking at like the fan dual odds today. They're the favorites to get to the Super Bowl in the NFC. And I think that's right.

I mean, in my head, if I'm just doing kind of my rankings right now of who I think is most likely to get to the Super Bowl, the bucks are right up there. I mean, they might suffer some regression from last year. But like you mentioned, I mean, they were right there. they didn't play a great game against the Rams in the divisional round. But there are so few teams where you're just like, unless they just get the worst injury luck in the league or the quarterback gets injured, like they're going to be playing on the second week of the playoffs. And I think the bucks are absolutely on that short list. Yeah.

And if they had really bad injury luck, it would be hitting them kind of two years in a row. And not that that can't happen. But they already dealt with a lot of that last season. I think their cornerback room really got decimated. and that hurt what Bowles wants to do just to be really multiple and to be able to confuse offenses back there. Obviously, the receiver room got totally demolished by the end of the season. Probably both of those things work out better.

Like odds would just be that that would be the case. Then again, you can never count on health, right? And we saw that with the Jensen injury. He went down two, three plays before practice ended. And it just completely changed the vibe and the tone of, of everything that was going on there because he's a phenomenal center. He has a really, really good relationship with Brady that started,

you know, on an early phone call when Brady got there telling him about all of the baby pounder. He wanted him to pour down down his pants so that the ball didn't get sweaty and stuff a towel back there. And like, not to be too graphic, but you see him doing that at practice.

And actually the day that I was there, I saw him kind of teaching. I think it was Robert Hainsey, who would be the internal candidate to replace him, kind of teaching him how to do it and like, here's the baby powder. You dump it on. Here you go. I won't get into it too much more. I was going to say, I'm afraid to ask any follow up questions.

Like, this is my second episode. Yeah, yeah. I'm afraid to offer for the sake of, you know, but the health is kind of cuts both ways where you wouldn't expect it. You would expect it to be better. But as they just saw, anything can happen. Jensen's such a big part of that offensive line. And particularly with Brady,

it is something to watch because interior pressure has always been a little bit of an Achilles heel for him. I don't want to overstate that just because that is still a good, good line. And I don't think that it'll be a huge issue. And also, we've seen the recruiting tool that is Tom Brady. Like, he can probably put a call into someone like J.C. Treader right now if they don't,

feel like Hainesie's ready and really get after it that way. So I think that while losing a player of Jensen's caliber would be horrible, and while we don't know yet if it is season ending, but I think that is the expectation, I think they will be just fine. But injuries are kind of the only thing that can stand in there and by virtue of that bulls his way this season. And, you know, that's true of every team, right? So it's about as good of a position as you can be in.

Yeah, no, I agree. I love what they did adding to the receiver core. Like they can withstand some injuries there. Not every one of those moves that's going to work out, but they have options if they do suffer injuries. All right, that was an easy one. So I wanted to do a runner up for this one because I think the Bucks were the obvious candidate there with Todd Bowles. What other head coach do you think on this list of 10 is most set up here for immediate success? Well, I think if you go by pure sort of roster strength,

alone, it's probably Nathaniel Hackett in Denver. I have to say, I sense a lot of optimism around the giants. I think pretty highly of the situation that Brian Dables in, particularly because if that offense is humming a little bit, he will get a lot of credit for that. So he's sort of my, my runner up to the runner up, but I think those guys. Yeah, I think I'm buying Hackett. I mean, I've been looking at the Broncos the last couple days going, do I want to like, you know, go all in on this team really having a Super Bowl ceiling. And I think I've settled on that they do. I mean, if you just look at the Seahawks with Russell Wilson, you know, my thing is like if you have an efficient offense, basically everything else can be mediocre to bad. Like you're going to be a really

good team. Seahawks, eight out of 10 years, they had a top eight offense with Russell Wilson. Now, you can say, well, he got lifted. I don't think many people would argue that he got lifted up by the surrounding pieces there or the coaching there. You would probably say it was vice versa. And so I think the odds are on them having a very good offense. with that supporting cast, maybe with a little more freedom, maybe they open it up a little bit. And so with the weapons, you know, the O line is okay. The defense needs to be healthy.

But I feel like they have a lot of things working in their favor where that to me certainly could be a team that wins 10 games, maybe, you know, wild card spot, maybe compete for that division there. So that's my, that's my pick for the runner up. All right, let's get to the negative a little bit. I mean, we don't need to be, you know, gassing up all these coaches, which team. Can be all coupaya here. Yeah, that's right.

Which team is worst positioned? Is that actually a worst position for immediate success here? Who do you got? I think it's Matt Iber Fluse in Chicago. I just hate the state of that roster. And I mean, if we're working off what you just said, where if you have an efficient offense, a lot of good things are going to come as a result of that. I just, you know, you look at the receiver depth chart.

It is the dire opposite of what we just talked about in Tampa, right? like you could get to three or four on Tampa Bay's depth chart before you're getting into, you know, Byron Pringle, Darnell Mooney territory. I just don't know what, what other than having a sort of exciting quarterback, there's not a lot to like there. I mean, he would have to just be able to put like an entire team on his back, you know, sort of like. And usually you see that right away like Justin Herbert right after the first three games he played

as a rookie. It was like, all right, this guy can just pretty much competent. say for anything else. We obviously did not see that with Fields last year. That doesn't mean he's going to be bad or that he doesn't, you know, have talent in the right situation. But it's a terrible situation. I mean, the Bears showed no inclination to be like, let's put pieces around him and see what he's got this year. We don't even know if the new management is committed to him beyond this year. So yeah, that, that to me was like the obvious choice. I mean, below average offensive line, like you mentioned, terrible weapons, even their defense. I mean, Robert Quinn, I don't

if he's going to be on the team the entire season. Like he could be a mid-year trade candidate if they're stinking it up and somebody wants a pass rusher like we saw with Von Miller last year. If Robert Quinn's not on the field for them, I mean, they might have the worst pass rush in the NFL. So I'm with you there. I mean, I have such a hard time talking myself into a scenario where the bears are winning, you know, even like eight or nine games this year.

I think it's going to be really tough for them and get really ugly. All right. Next one we've got here. Most likely coach to have their fan base. You know, in love with them. Week six comes around and, man, you don't mention any, you mentioned this coach and don't say anything that's totally flowery. Their fans are just attacking you. They're just like, all in.

It's going to be our guy for the next 10 years. Who do you think has the potential to be that guy this year? I think. So my other candidate here would be Dable because, again, I just am reasonably optimistic about a lot of things in New York. I want to talk about Doug Peters in here because I got to say, and I don't want to buy too much into training handpipe. the vibes in Jacksonville are just like off the charts good. And I think that probably has as much maybe more to do with Urban Meyer than it does with Doug Peterson.

But they seemed so just, even just the team seemed so happy just to be okay with where they're coming to work in the morning that I think at least, you know, we're talking about a month and a half into the season. I think they will still be in this sort of era of good feelings there. that will require some positive progress on the field, but I think that will fairly easily come, actually, just as a factor of the coach is going to know who the players are and be designing a more reasonable offense and hopefully doing some good things for

Trevor Lawrence. So I think they're going to be feeling pretty good, even if by that week six mark, you know, if it's three wins, I think they'll be super happy. This is like a great life lesson, I feel like. You always want to follow. Like if you're up for a promotion or a new job, you want to like follow the person that everyone hated,

that everyone's like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that person is out the door. You know, if everybody loved the person and it's like, hey, you want to fill the, well, you know, you might want to be like, I don't know, that might not be a great situation for me. It's all about expectations. Where is the bar that you have to clear? And I had Peterson for this one too,

just because of what you said. I mean, the last 11 years, I couldn't believe this when I looked it up. I feel like I looked this up every few months. But last 11 years, the Jaguars have won more than six games once, once more than six games. I mean, that is such a low bar to clear. They've just been a complete disaster. I think they're over under for wins this year is six and a half.

So if you're just going half over, going seven and ten, maybe even if you go like six and 11, but the players are saying nice things. And it feels like Trevor Lawrence connects with you. You know, the one thing about Doug Peterson, and I think he has, you know, flaws that we'll see if he corrects as a head coach. But just in Philadelphia, even when there were people who felt like his time had, you know, run its course and that he had flaws as a head coach, everybody still liked him personally. And that, you know, doesn't always matter, but it can matter when it's like, all right, the head coach, everybody likes him. He does nice things for people around the building. He's pretty easy to work with.

Like, those are his major positives as a head coach. And so I agree with you. Like if the Jaguars are two and three, three and two, Trevor. Lawrence is, you know, making some throws that are going viral on Twitter. Like, I do feel like their fan base after the Urban Meyer experience is just going to be thrilled with that. So we're on the same page there. All right.

The other side of it, uh-oh, most likely to have their fan base just be irate by week six. And this one's kind of tricky because it sort of has to be a team that has at least some expectations, which not all these teams fit that category. But who do you have here? So I do think that I was tempted to go Eberflust here as well. But I think that anger just is sort of like more general, how are we the story Chicago Bears in this dire situation of hopelessness rather than anger directed specifically at the head coach. I think it might be Dennis Allen. Oh, I like that.

Just because I think there's a perception in New Orleans and that perception is evidenced by their personnel moves and how they attacked the offseason and continue to go all in as they are want to do. that they're really still in the window and they're gunning for it. And it's hard for me to look at that team that even though they have, you know, they've worked around the salary cap and figured it out, that has lost a lot of key players and go, this is a team that can compete with Tampa Bay.

So I do think that there might be some sort of tough moments of realization that even though they've beaten Tampa Bay in the regular season in recent memory that like they're just not quite where they've acted like they are. And so I think that could lead to some frustration. Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, Sean Payton's like, you know, one of the best head coaches of the last like 20 to 30 years. But I'm with you. It's sort of, it feels like there is this thought that the saints are just going to be really good. And in the playoffs, like, that to me is just such a massive drop off. And can you see Sean Payton like going on TV and being like, well, you know, I would have done that, you know, I would have done this. You know, I would have done

this if I and just like kind of poking Dennis Allen and the Saints after after leaving there. You know, he's got kind of that personality. So I'm kind of with you. They are a team that has some expectations. And if it doesn't go right, I could see him getting criticized. I want to hear your thoughts on who I picked here because I, you know, you've covered him. I had Josh McDaniels here. You know, if he's clashing with players, if he's yelling at Derek Carr, if he's mismanaging the clock, like, you know, that fan base, I feel like it is excited and rightfully so. I think they're going to be a fun, exciting team. I don't know that though that they're going to be a great team. And so I have concerns about Josh McDaniels as a head coach. And I feel like,

you know, the fan base maybe could turn on him a little bit if they get off to a very bad start or aren't meeting those expectations. So that's really interesting. And on the one hand, I agree with you because I think that, I think the Raiders are in that that sweet spot that works for this, this question, this category, where there are expectations. but there's a little bit of shakiness. It could go in either way because they are an exciting team. They have some exciting pieces, but there are also some obvious roster holes there.

The thing that I would push back on is I don't think, I don't think he's going to be fighting with Derek Carr. I think genuinely, like there are some, there are some parts of coaching where after what happened in Denver and in the years since, as he went back to New England and stayed for a long time, talked a lot about lessons learned and how when he, you know, did decide to take another head coaching job, he would be a different coach and he would have

internalized a lot of that. It's really tough. It's always really tough in New England to figure out who's responsible for what. So some of the scheme stuff and some of like what he wants that offense to be stuff is a little hard to suss out. I do genuinely think that the sort of abrasive argumentative super, super stubborn Josh McDaniels who caused some problems. and it wasn't just him in Denver. I don't think that guy is the head coach of the Raiders right now. I don't think that that will be a big issue. Now, could they still underperform expectations?

Absolutely. But I think that has more to do with roster construction than Josh temperamentally. I think he'll be a pretty good fit in that way. There's such a high variance team. They're going to be one of the more interesting teams to watch because of what you just said. All right, next one here. Most likely to win coach of the year.

I feel I haven't done the math. on this, but I do feel like new coaches often get a little bump here because if you turn something around, get to the playoffs or whatever, you know, you're able to win this award. Who do you think out of this group is most likely to win that award? So I was really split here between Daible and Kevin O'Connell. Just because I think both of those guys have teams that have enough going for them where there can be some marked improvements. And, you know, compare them to someone like Nathaniel Hackett, who I think is in a really positive situation.

But if they're really good, Russell Wilson's getting the credit for it. Good point. And I think in either one of those situations, if the Vikings take a big step, if the Giants take a big step, if the quarterbacks look good, the coach is going to get the bulk of the credit for it.

So I couldn't really decide, but I think it's one of those guys. Yeah, those are both good. I had O'Connell. I think that, you know, like you, you made a great point on Hackett. Yeah, it's going to be, if they're playing well, it's going to be like Russell Wilson is the savior.

And, you know, no one's going to be saying Nathaniel Hackett is helping Russell Wilson. It will be vice versa. But the Vikings, I mean, if there's any coach on this list where, like, the team is really going to benefit just from like a fresh new voice. Well, I shouldn't say any team because I think the Jaguars probably qualify there. But I do think the Vikings fit in that category, you know, having that same voice for eight years where you knew what life was going to be like on a Monday after a loss, where you knew what was what the quotes were going to be from the head. coach when the offense didn't perform. I mean, I enjoyed the Mike Zimmer experience. I found him to be very entertaining.

And to his credit, they won a lot of games there. You know, I don't think he was a bad head coach, but eight years is a long time. And so now O'Connell comes in, more offense-oriented. I think he'll be more analytical with his in-game decision-making. I think he'll be more measured and even keel. Like, I don't think he's going to be going off in these media availability. And so, you know, I said in the previous podcast that I did that I think they have a chance to win the NFC North.

think if they do that, they win 10 games, something like that. I mean, I think he's really got a great opportunity to win coach of the year. So Connell was my pick there. All right. The other one, this one's kind of mean. I don't know. You know, I had to throw it on here. Coach most likely to be one and done this year. Who do you have? So I'm with Levy Smith just because it seems like that franchise is just desperate to hire a McCown. Yes, exactly what I wrote down. The faint scent of a McCown and they'll be running for the hills. I feel really bad. for the guy, but that's not a, it's, I think Houston's been sort of hopeless for long enough that we're just like, yeah, that Texans, but that's not great either. Yes. Yeah. No, I had Lovie Smith.

I mean, I looked at this and it was like, do we have any evidence that they actually wanted to hire him this offseason? No. Are they just buying time when they can shirt criticism and just hire Josh McCallon? Like you said, I mean, it's so weird to look at a team and be like that, you know, we didn't talk about this item before the podcast and we both had the exact, I have the exact same note that they're just buying time before they hire Josh McCown. So I wrote that down to, you know, it's not fair. It's not great for Lovey Smith, but I am on team, you know, CTC, which is cash them checks. And so if nothing else, he's going to, you know, his bank account will look good at the end of this Texan's tenure. And so, you know, there are worse things to be doing to making

that money, even if you don't feel great about why you were hired. So we had the same guy there. Football is right around the corner and Fandul's sportsbook is here. here to help you make every moment more because right now new customers can get a no sweat first bet up to $1,000. Just sign up using promo code ringer NFL, place your first bet, and Fanduel will give you up to $1,000 back in free bets if you don't win. I like the bills in the AFC East, or if you're looking for a longer shot, I think the giants are poised to make real strides in the NFC East. There's no better place to get ready for the football season than on Fandual, America's number one Sportsbook. Download the Fandul Sportsbook app and sign up using promo code Ringer NFL to get started

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Or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-877-770 stop in Louisiana. 1.8778, Hope, NY, or text, Hope, NY, 467-369 in New York, Tennessee Redline, 1,800-889, 9789 in Tennessee, 1,800-522-470 in Wyoming, or visit www.1-800-Gambler.net in West Virginia. All right. Last few here to get to who's under the most pressure? I kind of had a tough time with this one. I want to hear what you say for this one.

Who's under the most pressure in 2022 out of this group? So I went with Josh McDaniels for this one, kind of for the same reason that you pegged him to maybe have that fan base a little bit upset. I just think that's a really high variance team. And I think because of his history, he's on a slightly shorter leash than some of these other guys. He and Alan would have been the guys who kind of fit

into that zone of the expectations are high enough, but there's enough potential for things to go wrong. But I just don't think, like, nobody is expecting Alan to be a better coach than Sean Payton. And I think people are expecting, you know, now expecting Josh McDaniels

to certainly be a better coach than John Gruden, who obviously did horrible things personally, but had a pretty interesting offense at times. So I think there's real pressure there. Yeah, I think that that's a good one. I have a guy we haven't talked about. Yeah, I don't think his name has come up unless I miss it. How about Mike McDaniel? You know, sort of, I guess. Interesting. Well, I was thinking about this. I mean, the dolphins,

uh, in my opinion are just a disaster of an organization. I mean, they change their mind about what they want to do like every two months. And I'm a very indecisive person. So I can kind of relate to that. This might be my ownership style. I can't pick a restaurant. I couldn't pick a topic for this podcast. I'm sending you guys 400 messages. So, you've already gotten a taste of my indecisiveness. And so I guess I kind of relate to Stephen Ross, only in that respect. Let me be clear. Only in that respect.

But he's been their owner for 13 seasons. They have not won a playoff game. They've made the playoffs once. They've had a wing record three times. By the way, two of those times were the last two years under Brian Flores. And so is there a situation here where if Mike McDaniel underperforms? And all of a sudden, hey, Tom Brady's a free agent again? We heard those rumors last off season.

and oh wait, Sean Payton is interested in getting back into coaching. I mean, they could change their mind about this thing so quickly if things go south this year. And I'm not convinced that that dolphins team is going to take that leap and be a playoff team. So I don't know. I don't feel great about it, but that was just kind of the name I settled on. So that's funny because I had him as under the least pressure. Really? Okay. I'm not high on the dolphins either.

but I just think the entire discussion is about Tua. If they are good, if they take any sort of meaningful step forward, I think McDaniel will get all of the credit for it. If they are bad Tua, we'll get all of the blame. That's true. Particularly because I think the chaos organizationally sort of protects McDaniel too.

Like he's handpicked by the owner who could change his mind in a flash, but it won't reflect well on the people running the team either. And I think that is a little bit of a force field in NFL world. Yeah. So it's funny. I agree with you in part, but I don't think that it will come down on him in quite the same way. Yeah. You know, you absolutely could be right.

That if if Tua doesn't play well, then they might just say, all right, we like McDaniel. We liked what he did. Let's figure out another option at quarterback. I just think, you know, they're going to have some wandering eyes, I feel like. They get tempted by pretty much any other option that's out there, never have a cohesive plan. And so that's why I chose him there. I have Brian Daibald for the guy who's under the least pressure here.

I mean, that giant's organization, the last five years, fewest wins in the NFL tied with the Jets. I mean, again, talk about a low bar to clear here. And again, he's replacing Joe Judge. I think that's a nice spot to be in certainly. That's a great peck. And it's what you mentioned earlier. I mean, if they, if Daniel Jones, like, he doesn't have to be great.

If he's like the 17th best starter, it'll be like, wow, Brian Daibald did an outstanding job with this Giants team. Also who he comes in with, you know, he comes in with the GM, Joe Shane, they know each other from Buffalo. It's not like, you know, you wouldn't think there would be any kind of power struggle there after one year. And so I think the bar is very low. The roster's not good.

Expect, you know, you're playing in a division where you could maybe pile up some wins if it's not that strong. And so I think they could be, I feel like if they get good health, they could be okay. You know, they might win seven games or maybe even eight games this year. I don't think they're deep, so I think it could get ugly fast, but I've got Dave all right. We're going to finish with a couple of more fun ones. Which coach is most likely to go viral for any reason?

You could take this anywhere you want. It could be the Dan Campbell, Starbucks press conference clip, that type of thing. It could be something off the field, which we know we don't have to mention all those things, but that some coaches may have had issues with last year. Who did you go with here? I went with Mike McDaniel.

He's just a wacky guy. I agree. He's already gone viral. He had the Mike Jones thing. Like, he's a viral moment waiting to happen. I love it. I'm here for it. Yeah, I agree.

I mean, you already took a selfie, right? With the Dolphins writing with the Dolphins writers this week. I think I saw, I mean, I want to see his athleticia game week in and week out. See if I can pick up any, any tips there. He's number one in the athletic power rankings among coaches. Maybe. I mean, he might be in there with some of the players.

And so I think that's a good one. I could see him. You know how Brandon Staley put out those videos last year, like explaining his fourth down. Like I could see McDaniel, you know, doing stuff like that where he's just driving in his car and explaining some very intense like clock management that he had. So I think that that is a, that's a good one. That's who high I had down as well. All right.

Last one, you know, we are a podcast network here now that I'm learning as a Ringer employee. Who's the most likely coach to host a podcast at some point? It could be wild coaching. You know, we saw Draymond Green. Maybe someone looks at that and says, hey, you know, we don't need to do a 30-minute post-game press conferences. We can just go and record a podcast and the film can wait or I guess more likely it would be post-coaching. But can you see any of these guys, you know, maybe hosting like a flying coach in like 2029 on the ringer?

Yeah, so I'm going to repeat myself here, but it was actually, I was shocked to learn that Mike McDaniel did not already have a podcast. I think, I think that is a, yeah, that probably is the best choice and you're right about that. Maybe he does have fun. I don't know. We would have to do a little more research, but I think that is a good one. I don't know. I wrote down and I like yours much better, Nathaniel Hackett, maybe. I mean, I don't, I don't know what to make of Nathaniel Hackett. All I know is I was at the owner's meetings in the spring and he was like the happiest head coach I had ever talked to. I mean, most of those head coaches are in that setting. They're either like hungover or really tired or miserable or annoyed. And I was just firing questions at him. I felt like he would have stayed for like two

hours or just been like, hey, you want to go get a coffee and, like, continue this conversation. So I don't know. Maybe, you know, uh, 2029 flying coach with Ben Solac and Mike McDaniel or, you know, I don't Nathaniel Hackett. We'll see one of those. We got through all these. I don't think we went too long. Nora, this was fantastic.

Thank you for joining me here. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for producing. It's the Ringer NFL show. We will be back soon.