The Ringer NFL Show - 2021 NFL Trade Deadline Primer

Episode Date: October 28, 2021

Nora and Mal each provide three trade scenarios, from likely to unlikely, and a move that a team should not make at the deadline. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Mallory Rubin Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The ringers Nora Prince-Iotti and Nathan Hubbard are on a journey breaking down every single Taylor Swift album. For all you Swifties out there, this is the podcast for you. From her most famous moments to her most obscure references, every single album Taylor Swift has it all. Check it out on the Ringer dish feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pinciotti, here as always with Mallory Rubin. Mallory, how are you on this fine October Thursday? It's almost November, Nora.

Can't believe it. Halloween, just a couple days away. Fall is melting away. But as always, it's a pleasure to be here with you to talk about the NFL. What is Halloween like in Los Angeles? You know, October is one of the warmest months typically in L.A. So it can actually be quite disorienting. Like, I grew up on the East Coast.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So still, even though I've been in L.A. for nearly a decade now, adjusting to fall, not feeling like fall, but it has been cooler this year, actually. I've seen some leaves turning. That's so interesting. We've had like the warmest October ever or something like that. I'm not. I like things that happen in fall. Like, I like crisp fall evenings in the city. I don't have the fall gene of loving pumpkin spice and all of that that I think is as describes to some people. Favorite time of the year. Interesting. I like,

Winter. I'm a winter. What? I love winter, Mallory. I don't understand. I love snow and sweaters and boots and winter. Okay. Do you love when you take a step in New York City on the corner and it looks like it's flat ground and then you plunge beneath the sleet and ice into six to 16 inches of frigid, murky water? Okay, first of all, that sounds like March to me. But second of all, I just wear proper footwear. Okay. That's fair. I love winter. I'm well versed in defending my love of winter to all the winter haters out there.

But it is the best season and I will never, never believe otherwise. However, what I can say for the month of October, for fall, and as we move into, November is that it's a lovely time on the sports calendar. And that includes the NFL trade deadline, which is next Tuesday at 4 p.m. Eastern. And that's what we're going to talk about on this show today. I would like us to just off the top acknowledge that one of the stories that's been most prevalent as we move towards the trade deadline involves Deshaun Watson, who as of Tuesday at the NFL owner's meetings, Roger Goodell said, is not going to go, at least for now, on the commissioner's exempt list.

He said, quote, we don't feel that we have the necessary information at this point. That obviously for any NFL team that's considering trading for Watson means that for now, he is eligible to play. So if they wanted to trade for him and play him right away, they would be able to. Whether or not that leads to anything we'll see. obviously this is a really complicated story. I wrote something that went up on the ringer.com last night that basically just outlines,

I don't understand why the exempt list hasn't been used. It just seems like a really easy lever for the NFL to pull to just say, look, this is a massive, complicated and potentially a really ugly story. We should figure out what's going on here and what the outcome off the field should be. Then we can get back to the football situation. The exempt list is paid leave. It just freezes his football status sort of as is. It's not going to be a trade.

Anything like that. We don't have to deal with the sort of icky, at least in my view, mixing of football incentives and what the risk-reward calculus should be and a story involving sexual assault. I really don't get the incentive to not use it. there's been some reporting that's implied that the list isn't available in Watson's case because he hasn't been charged with a felony. That's completely incorrect. The list is basically whatever Roger Goodell wants it to be.

There are three basic situations in which it can be used. One is if someone who works for the NFL has been formally charged with a felony or what the NFL calls a, quote, crime of violence. That does include sexual assault or, quote, conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety or well-being of another. The list can also be used, though, if the NFL has reason to believe through their own investigations, which in Watson's case have begun as of August, they'd interviewed at least 10 of the plaintiffs who've brought civil suits against him. If they believe that there's information where such an act could

have taken place. They can use the list. They can also use it. And this, this criteria is outlined in the personal conduct policy as on a temporary basis. The commissioner's exempt list is always temporary. It's never a permanent thing. But they can use it if there's just an allegation and they want some extra time to look into it. They obviously could use it in this case. I don't understand why they haven't. They haven't. That's the latest. We're going to move into some categories of trades that might happen that we would like to see happen, we're just not going to include Deshaun Watson in that because it's at least my view that these things should just be kept separate.

And while the NFL is not doing that, we can do that on this podcast. Yes, I strongly agree. I would encourage everybody who's listening to read Nora's piece that's up right now on the ringer.com, which does a really outstanding job of outlining this situation. and I agree with everything you said, Nora, I think it is just like utterly dismaying to be in a situation where the league is taking the stance and the tack that would allow teams to weigh and assess the prospect of playing time

and on-field results over the incredibly serious charges from multiple women. This is just a potentially very shameful situation that is about to. unfold. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. So we'll continue to cover the news, but as we move into some trade categories, looking towards the deadline on Tuesday, we're just going to keep those things separate. All right. So we are going to talk about some trades that could take place before Tuesday, that we would like to see take place, that we think make a lot of sense. Maybe a couple that probably won't happen, but would be really spicy and fun. Maybe some that we would like to see be a, avoided. We would like to see some teams say no and not make some moves. And our potential

trades have some categories. And I'm going to run through them mainly because at least one of them, I need Mallory to explain the title for them. Exciting. Okay. So the first trades, and we're each going to pose one, the first trades we're categorizing as you belong with me, which this one needs no explanation, at least not Certainly not for me. A big fan of fall, Ms. Taylor Swift, is the banner that we're going to place over these trades that are just, you know, they would just be so satisfying and wonderful. The next trades, and this is the one that I just, I need some help with. Okay.

The category is there was an idea. Yeah. Yeah. Mel. This is, this is. Gladly. Because this is really all about partnership and teamwork, Nora. So I would be delighted to help you.

This is Nick Fury's Avengers initiative speech on ramp. So this is a marvelism about uniting and teaming up. I marvel at the marvelism. So I think the way that we're going to think about those is could happen. Not necessarily the slam dunk of the first category. But, you know, there's some logic, though maybe a roadblock or two in the way If anybody could have put together the Avengers, then everybody would have, you know? It's not always easy, but when it happens, wow, you're out there fighting the Chitari.

That makes sense. Third category, back of my wheelhouse, wildest dreams. Another iconic Taylor Swift song. These are trades that are not going to happen, but they would be really, really fun if they did. Yeah, I mean, we should say it's probably going to be a quiet deadline. Like, the NFL trade deadline is not necessarily akin to deadlines in other major sports. So part of the fun of looking ahead and previewing the deadline is, in fact, talking about trades that are very, very unlikely to unfold. We will also talk about trades, as nor are noted, that seem likely to happen or that could happen.

But why not really lean in here to the rampant speculation? I love it. I love it. And then our final category is, it's a trap. Which actually, I don't know what the reference there is either. This is a Star Wars one. You get it. My dude, Admiral Akbar. It's a trap.

It's just embarrassing how little of this I know. It's just more than I'm sure that you've seen the Admiral Akbar. It's a trap gif or meme floating around on Twitter. Yeah. I bet this one's more familiar to you than you think. Well, it's also, I mean, it's sort of a, it's a self-explanatory. It's intuitive. But these are going to be trades that have maybe been their speculation about, but we think they're a bad idea.

These are things that we do not want teams to do. Right. I think that runs through kind of our roadmap here. So let's start with the obvious. Okay. Mal, who belongs with whom? Who is your you belong with me? Trade.

Or what is. So lots of possibilities here. despite the likelihood of a quiet deadline, lots of possibilities here. I ultimately went with Kansas City trading with Pittsburgh for Melvin Ingraham. There is a buyer or seller narrative unfolding around Kansas City right now that I candidly am a little confounded by. I just don't see the Chiefs as sellers. Obviously, it has not been the start to the season

that Kansas City wanted or that anybody in the NFL expected. They're three and four. Like, they're not going to punt on the season. They're going to do what they can within the bounds of reason to position themselves to rebound in the second half of the season and get back where they need to be heading into the playoffs. Now, I think this goes without saying, but just to say it. The Kansas City defense is so,

riddled with holes and needs that no one player is going to be able to instantly come in and fix all of the defensive woes. Like that's not happening. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. Exactly. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try to start plugging some of those holes. And they particularly need help up front. This is PFF's worst graded pass rushing unit, worst graded run defense unit.

they need pass rushing help. Ingram signed with Pittsburgh in the offseason, but he had visited with Kansas City. There was a chance that he was going to sign with Kansas City. So he's on their radar already. There's some pre-existing familiarity there that could make this a little more feasible. And he has been heavily linked to Kansas City

and pre-deadline trade roundups and rumors. This is one of the reasons that I thought this was a good fit for this particular category because it's out there so heavily that it really does seem like, it could be, you know, poised to unfold. Ian Rappaport reported that the teams have been, that teams across the NFL have been calling Pittsburgh about Ingram and linked Ingram to KC as a potential match.

ESPN's Jeremy Fallor also reported that the Steelers are, quote, willing to part with Melvin Ingram if Alex Highsmith continues to develop. And that's a big part of it, is that Ingram has fallen behind Highsmith and out of the deployment inside of the Pittsburgh rotation that seemed likely when he, he signed with them. So from Pittsburgh's perspective, there's a lot of validity here in trying to recoup value.

Fowler also reported last week that the chiefs had been in the mix for Whitney Merciless before the Green Bay outcome there. They are looking to address the defensive front to find pass rush help if they can. Now, a caveat that I think

will be a recurring theme across our discussion today. cap space difficulty. Kansas City is in a very tough spot in terms of cap space, but this is another reason that Ingram, of all of the possibilities out there, defensive players who might be available at the deadline, this is one of the reasons that Ingram seems like a potential

really good match for Casey. His cap hit is relatively, relatively minor. 1.66 million this season, 2.3 million next season. and pro over the cap. I think that Derek Barnett is another option. Philly is going to be a recurring team for me on the sellers list throughout the chat today. I think that Philly is a clear seller obviously already moved Ertz and Joe Flacko, as we'll be returning to later. It seems to be a little bit of like wishy-washiness over whether they're going to go full sell, but I just feel that that will be the case and they have a lot of pieces they move in a lot

a value that they could look to recoup. He has a potentially manageable with some maneuvering cap at $2.8 million could be a fit. But I do think Ingram makes the most sense overall for Casey. Yeah, I love that. I think it's a great idea. I mean, look, he's, he's fallen out of the rotation there in Pittsburgh because Highsmith has developed and because they want him to continue developing and they have a good defensive front there. But he's been really, Ingram's been really, really good when he has played so far this season. His, he's got an overall PFF grade 73.6. That's very good. Pass rush grade 82.1.

Yeah. This is some high end. Yeah. Yeah. I should say that our colleague Ben Solac linked Ingram to Dallas, to the Cowboys and his trade primer up right now on the ringer.com. What a great website. So Ingram moving seems really close to given at this point. And I like the Dallas idea too, but he could do a lot for Casey quickly. Yeah, I don't, I'm, I'm with you on the buyer-seller thing being a little bit silly. Just because if you're a seller, it's not just about this season, right? Like, right. Maybe there's a circumstance where somebody's not signed is going to hit free agency and their cap situation is what it is. But even if they don't make the playoffs this year, which by the way, I think they still very much like that's the goal.

Right. You want to have people around for next year. You're not tearing down your team. You got to keep the good players around. So I don't see them. I don't see them wanting to tear anything down there. That doesn't make a lot of sense. What about you, Nora?

Who do you think belongs together? Mallory, I have a Ravens trade for you. Bring it. I'm not sure if you've heard this. But the Baltimore Ravens, famously a team that likes to run the ball, run the ball effectively. their top three running backs got hurt in the preseason.

Yeah, I'm familiar. I don't know if that's news to you. No, no, I'm aware. Yeah. There happens to be a pretty solid running back who has mutually agreed with his team, the Indianapolis Colts, to seek a trade. Yep. That would be Marlon Mack.

The Ravens should trade for Marlon Mack. They belong together. I think Baltimore has done a very solid job of cobbling together, this group of Tyson Williams, Devante Freeman, Latavius Murray, and Levyon Bell, just like Tyson Williams and the all-stars of Yore. But while they've managed to still have a good ground game because Lamar and because the Ravens, none of those players have really been particularly effective. Williams had a pretty nice start, but he's been getting fewer and fewer snaps.

Levyon Bell hasn't had a game where he's hit three yards per attempt. Freeman just had basically one good game against the Chargers who don't really care about stopping the run. And Murray is hurt. So they need someone. They're not in dire straits here. Again, I think their offense has been really interesting. And I think the way that they've evolved is a downfield passing attack is more important than what they lost on the ground. But they don't want to lose their bread and butter.

Right. And they love to trade. The Ravens love to trade. They traded for Tyne Montgomery in 2018, Marcus Peters in 2019. Yonig and Gokwey in 20, 2020 trading is their thing. So they should do it here. And Mac has fallen out of the rotation in Indianapolis because they use Jonathan Taylor's their leadback and then Naim Hines just gets more snaps because of his receiving ability. He was hurt last year, but in 2018, he averaged 4.7 yards

per carry on 16 touches per game. And then in 2019, he averaged 4.4 yards per carry on 18 touches per game. That's really pretty solid. That is a professional NFL running back. And the Ravens could really use one of those. He's also set to hit free agency after this season. So there's some compensatory pick stuff that works out really well here, right? Because he's not going to be productive in Indianapolis this season, which means that if he hits free agency and leaves and goes somewhere else,

and he's not going to get a good comp pick for him. If he goes and shines in Baltimore and leaves, first of all, that's good for Mac because he probably makes more money. But second of all, the Ravens would get a better compensatory pick. So they could probably, if there's, I'm actually surprised this hasn't happened already. If there's a lot of competition for him, maybe it takes like a fourth rounder and they could get a fifth back in the comp pick formula. I think if there's not a hot market, probably a fifth round pick gets it done something

like that. But this one just seems really pretty clear to me. If Mack goes somewhere else, I think the Ravens probably still look to trade for a running back. I think Ronald Jones could be an option. I don't know that Tampa is really inclined to let go of anyone, but I see them making a move there. Mac is just, they belong together. Yeah, this one feels like it has become almost like a fait accompli. It's just so heavily discussed.

This is not like this category to a T. This is not a novel idea. It feels inevitable. It's just a matter of when the push notification and or text from my dad. Always a question of which I'll receive first comes through. But shouts to my dad. He's a great one.

I have, I might surprise you here, Nora. Okay. I'm a little meh on this. Fascinating. Yeah, I don't quite know why. I think everything you outlined makes perfect sense and the pairing makes I think certainly, undeniably, the Ravens need help at running back and the current rotation

is, is, it's not what you want if you're trying to contend for a title, right? I really, I was hoping that they would bring Ingram back. Now he has already moved to the Saints. That would have felt right to me, just right in some way. Like a player who was a part of a really special moment. moment in Ravens history and could unlock something, even if that's something is not necessarily robust rushing production. I think that's like, and this is not even specific to Mac, whether it's Mac or, you know, Jones or Philip Lindsay. Like, I think there are a lot of quality players

who could help the Ravens, to be clear. I do feel that way. I think the thing that I'm wrestling with is how many backs who were not ultimately going to be true, true, true difference makers, the Ravens should be collecting on this roster. Because at a certain point, if they're not going to be able to, I don't know, swing a deal for somebody like Miles Sanders who could maybe really unlock something. Mm-hmm. It's not a question. Yeah, it's not.

Again, I think I'll probably find a way to mention the Eagles in almost every category today. I don't know. Like another player, and this is no shade at Mac, but another player who is coming off injury and has kind of fallen out of primary carry load status with his current team. Now maybe a change of scenery and a run heavy offense will allow him to rediscover that prior form that you outlined.

But it's a little hard for me to get excited, I guess, about the Ravens adding another back who ultimately is not going to be able, to obviously do what Dobbins or Guspus would have done. So I'm in favor of them working to improve the running back rotation, certainly. But I'm more invested in them addressing another area of need, which I will get to next. It's all connected. Wow.

What a pro. What a teaser. All right. There was an idea. This is where I am going to shout out our guy, Ben Solac, who has a, fabulous piece on the ringer.com. And one trade that he proposed that I love

is Texans receiver Brandon Cook's being traded to the Los Angeles Chargers. This is a really fun one. It's fun so it's fun because our national pastime is just trading Brandon Cooks. That's right. Like that's just a thing that I would like to

continue to see happen. It's a maybe because the Texans, the athletic has reported that the Texans do not want to trade Cooks, which makes some sense. He is their leading receiver. He has 502 yards on the season. He's getting almost 10 targets a game.

But I don't really know how much matters in Houston these days. So it seems possible. And it seems additionally possible because it looks like he's trying to get traded. Because right after the Ingram trade went down, he tweeted, he tweeted, this is bullshit. Such a joke, which to me is maybe something. you do if you want to signal to your employer that you would like to work somewhere else. And Cooks, who, you know, he has been traded all of these times for some reason, but he's a very good receiver who's currently playing on a base salary of only $2.5 million.

And I love the Chargers. And I think Solac did such a great job of outlining this case because he could give them the downfield sort of field stretching element that their offense really, really needs. They need it first of all because Justin Herbert, great arm, right? But they have not been able to put together a very vertical offense so far, which has hurt them. So Herbert's average intended air yards so far this season is 7.4, which is actually the eighth lowest in the league. If you employ Justin Herbert, you don't want him in that territory with like Jimmy Garoppelow and Tua.

That's not the point. That's not why you have a Justin Herbert. And it's been particularly bad on first and second downs where the charges are 24th in the NFL in EPA per play and where Herbert's 6.5 yard depth of target is fifth worst in the league. And they know this. Staley said the other day, I think over the next few days, we're going to take a hard look at our operation so that we can be more prolific on first and second down moving forward.

They absolutely want to address this. A really, really good way to do that is to add someone who can stretch the field, take advantage of Herbert's arm, open up some space. I think Mike Williams would be really happy to see that happen. And Cooks, who is not a perfect receiver, right? Like I said before, there's a reason the team sort of get their fill of Brandon Cooks and then decide, you know what, we can live without this guy. But he's been a top 10 receiver on deep throws in three of the past five years.

according to PFF. He is really capable at adding that element, particularly when he's not being relied on to be a number one, make a lot of physical plays at the catch point, take big hits over and over. He could slide in, I think, to that Chargers offense and give something to them. I think it would be a good place for his skills.

He wouldn't be asked to do too much. and it is the law of the universe that Brandon Cooks must be traded. Brandon Cooks to the Chargers. I love it. I love it. This is a great one. I've also seen a few fun cooks to the Packers rumblings.

Oh, that's fun. That are fun to contemplate as well. But the Chargers won because of what it would unlock for Herbert in that offense is really a treat to think about. I hope that happens. It's a great one. I look forward to tracking his Twitter as the news cycle developed. Mine is the other Ravens move that I alluded to mere moments prior, Nora.

So, you know, again, running back, definitely an area of need. Yes, irrefutably. If the Ravens think that Marlon Mack can unlock something for them and be a difference for them, great. I trust their coaching and analytics department, front office, roster building. I think undeniably, though, offensive line is an urgent area of need right now. As you noted, the Ravens love to buy at the deadline, have the last couple years,

at five and two right now, but with real needs and areas to address on the roster, I think it's very reasonable to expect that they will be buyers and maybe even quite active buyers again. So maybe they'll do more than one thing. I think that given the plethora of injuries and maybe subpar play, the needs at line are just not possible to ignore given how they connect to everything else.

Protecting Lamar Jackson, facilitating a more consistently productive run game, etc. Ronnie Stanley, as we talked about before, all pro left tackle, he is on IR. He is out for the season with the recurring ankle injury. recently Patrick McCarrey, who's been one of the most pleasant surprises of the entire season, stepped in amid other injuries, has played really, not only exceptionally, but essentially given the dearth of healthy players on the line, is now also hurt.

And he has a high ankle sprain. That's not necessarily a quick return. It's not clear how long he'll be out, but it could be a while. You know, an ankle injury for an offensive lineman is a big deal. Villanueva has not played well. this season. Some things on the line are looking up. You know, we talked about Bradley Boseman a couple pods ago. He's back. That's huge news. Tyree Phillips is back. The Ravens have signed Cedric Agui. They're working to address the line in ways that are incremental,

but hopefully additive and in tandem impactful. But If we're channeling that Avengers Nick Fury idea here, right? The idea was to bring together a group of remarkable people, see if they could become something more, then I would like to see the Ravens try to trade with the Philadelphia Eagles. There they are again for Andre Dillard. Why not?

Just ransacking the Eagles roster, Mallory. I can't tell how much of this is about the Eagles roster and how much of this is just that I have so many Eagles fans in my life that I can't stop thinking about the Eagles for a moment because they won't let me. Again, they're selling. Ertz, Flacco. Why not add former first round pick Dillard to the list here, Nora. Jordan Myelotta has become a star for Philly.

He has passed Dillard. Incredible story. An amazing story. And that left tackle spot is his. for the future. Dillard has been better as a pass blocker than a run blocker. And given the Ravens needs at running back and on the ground game, that might not seem like a good fit. But I actually think that's important. You know, we talked when we were talking about the Stanley injury last week about how his exceptional league leading pass blocking prowess when he's healthy was one of

the great distinctions for his play, their line, and the way that the offense flowed, they need to protect Lamar Jackson, period. And, you know, you've really shared the joy all season here on the pod of celebrating the way that the passing game has developed and what we have seen from Lamar. But giving him time to throw or time to innovate and do something inventive and dynamic is essential. He's getting hit a lot. He's getting hurried and pressured a lot.

So a player like Dillard, who can actually excel as a pass blocker and shore up the line amid these injuries is, I think, really important. Rappaport in one of his recent deadline roundups said this, quote, The Eagles won't give him away, but there are scenarios where he's a part of their future anyway, but teams believe a quality second day pick would be enough to pry Dillard away. If the Ravens can get a left tackle for a third round pick, bolster that tackle position amid a playoff run. I think that is not only reasonable, I think it borders on necessary.

So this is my pick here. What do you think? I love that. I mean, look, I think if you, you know, you make moves, like you make what organizationally you see as a plus move in trading Orlando Brown, you get back the capital and you also get back, you don't have to pay him.

I think you have the mindset of we're going to use that. We're going to use what we recouped there. We made those aggressive moves. Right. So that we have the spending power. And I think this is the situation where you use it. So I love that. Still making a lot of sense here.

But now we're going to get a little bit more fantastical. May I kick off the Wildest Dream section? Please. Because I just really, I really want to live in this universe. I repose that the Green Bay Packers trade quarterback Jordan Love to the Denver Broncos for cornerback Kyle Fuller as a grand gesture for Aaron Rogers to convince him to stay next offseason.

It has the added benefit of eliminating one of the potential suitors for Roston. For Rostin? One of the potential suitors for Rogers who could go to the Denver Broncos if he does in fact switch teams for 2020. because while they have a great ready to win roster outside of quarterback, I mean,

he doesn't want to be back with Jordan and Love on his heels again. Like, why would you go do that? The front office looks Rogers in the eye and says, we are committing to you. We've improved the team now. Now, obviously, this is in wildest dreams because love is not available. But Fuller is. He signed a one-year deal in Denver,

very affordable contract, $9.5 million. for one year for a good starting quarter. That's a that's a great deal. Um, but then Denver signed Ronald Darby. They drafted Patrick Sartan. They have Bryce Callahan as their nickel. So Fuller has fallen out of the rotation. In their last game against the Raiders, he only got two snaps. He has another greatest season, but he's 29. He's got a good track record. Maybe a little over the hill, but that's still a solid player. So I can totally see a team like Green Bay or maybe Tampa Bay that's a contender with some serious needs in the secondary, taking a look at Fuller.

He's been in all sorts of trade rumors. But I think what better swap than to say, hey, look, Denver, your quarterback situation is a little shaky. You want a first rounder who's still kind of a wild card? And maybe, look, I have like no idea what the value on Jordan Love would be right now. Like that's just such a foreign concept to me. but maybe they say we have to do this because we're doing it as an emotional appeal to our starter. So I don't know.

Somehow that all equates out to Kyle Fuller is reasonable compensation. But really, it's a grand gesture. Mallory, what do you think? An incredible thought experiment. I support it. And I love it. We are, you know, we here at the Ringer, we love a grand gesture. We love a great gesture.

We love to track Aaron Rogers' social media. And our colleague, Megan Schuster, posted a couple days ago, I believe, on Sunday in one of our NFL slacks, a screenshot of Rogers's Instagram where he had reposted a Jordan Love Instagram post. And it said, my brother, JLo. Now, I raise this only to have the excuse to say J-Lo and A-Rod, you know, just when you think it's going to be okay. Just when you think it might work out, it can still fall apart. It can still fall apart. I love the idea of the grand gesture and the appeal to Rogers. I think it's of a piece thematically with what I will be offering up to you in my, it's a trap pick later on.

there's there's some there's some connective tissue here in terms of trying to appease a superstar. So I support this line of thinking. Have I said on record on air that I think Aaron Rogers is going to be Jake Cumerow for Halloween? I actually think you have. Okay. I just, I had like a, I have like a waking nightmare this morning where I was like, what if he does it? And I never said it on a podcast. Just needed to make sure that.

There you go. Now no matter what you're on the record. I love it. What will you be going for us? I am a I am a 70s disco queen wonderful Thank you Thank you Mel

Appreciate your support It was not it would The the assignment was given to me But I actually I am a huge ABBA fan If I ever fund backed I know like almost I like when I was like a little kid I never like fantasized about

my wedding or getting married. That was just not a thing that I thought about. The one thing was if I ever have a bachelorette party, it will be at an ABA cover band. Unbelievable. Well, now you're on the record

on a pod about that too. That's great. It's great stuff. Nora, I'll be going as a fatigued 35-year-old who has opted into staying home with her cat in pajamas

to watch Sunday night football and then succession. That's great. That's how I'm dressing up this year. Well, yeah, I guess on actual Halloween, I will probably be wearing, like, leggings into T-shirt because it's on Sunday. But, you know, Halloween, Mal, it's an important thing.

Wow. Look at that branding. All right. Give me your Wildest Dreams trade, please. All right. Wildest dreams, dare I say, fever dreams for this one. Does it make sense? No.

Is that going to stop me? No. No. Never. I, like a growing portion of the Twitter sphere, would like to encourage the Chicago Bears to trade quarterback Nick Foles to the New York Jets. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. Zach Wilson is injured. Mike White is in.

The QB rotation is so thin. that somehow in late October of the year 2021, I am about to mention Joe Flacco for the third time at one podcast. Astounding stuff, okay? Because the Jets have traded for Joe Flacco, acquired him from the Eagles. This is not a drill. The Jets have traded for Joe Flacco, okay? That's the situation.

That's what we're dealing with. So why not Foles? He is languishing. in Chicago behind both Justin Fields, as he should be, of course,

of course Justin Field should be starting. Also Andy Dalton and the Bears, given that Nick Foles is just a third stringer now holding the clipboard

really should try to do anything they can to recruit some value, some value. Going to a team with another top pick young quarterback franchise, future franchise player that he's,

that Foles is eventually just going to be behind again might not sound ideal or frankly even fair. Given Nick Foles's history in the NFL, it might even sound cruel, Nora. But he would get some playing time, some action with Wilson out. And I think he would be, as the prime backup for Wilson in this scenario,

once Wilson returned to health, actually incorporated more fully, potentially, and a valuable asset for Wilson as a veteran presence in his continued development. Now, of course, that contract remains, as it has for some time, a lot. A lot to take on, probably too much to take on, really too much to even allow for this kind of hypothetical,

particularly for a scenario like this where he is guaranteed in short order to be the backup because Wilson is obviously the guy. And he's only, you know, at least based on the initial report, supposed to be out two to four weeks with the PCL spray. It's not like he's out for the season. The Jets are also one in five, I should say. So there's literally no reason for them to do anything. No reason.

But this is the Wildest Dreams category. It doesn't make sense in it. I can't shake the idea of it, the thrill of it, the potential appeal of it. And one of the things that is really just sticking with me is that the Jets could then continue the tradition in the offseason of trading Nick Foles to another franchise. What do you think? Shout out Nick Foles in his $7 million cap it. It's just delightful. It's very tough.

The reason to not make this trade, the reason this is like a wildest dreams trade is just like, why? Like, you just have to look yourself in the mirror and go like, ah. Yeah. Yeah. If a Nick, if a Nick Foll's trade falls in the forest and it doesn't make a sound. I mean, it's such an absurd consideration. Did anybody hear it happen? I don't know how that ends.

To be totally frank, I considered putting the idea of the Jets taking on a quarterback contract via trade in the, it's a trap. category because it's it's not necessarily wise or really even sound. But when your starter gets hurt and you end up with Mike White playing and Joe Flacco coming to your team via trade, you've got to at least take a beat to talk about other options.

Come to the home of the bodega candle, Nick Foles. How's New York living going for you, by the way? That's good. Yeah. It's a good city. That's great. New York fall is the elite. Fall as a concept is like not the thing that you don't you don't like fall you just said well but I like New York fall because I do like walking around the city and like a blazer. So where don't you like fall then? I just don't like first of all pumpkin spice does nothing for me. All right. This anti pumpkin spice agenda out there is too much. I want people to love what they love.

But it just doesn't I don't do the whole like for instance. For so many other autumnal joys and offerings. If you don't like pumpkin spice lattes, fall can still delight you in myriad ways. So I love the smell in the air, the crunch of a leaf underfoot. Okay, yeah, the crunch of a leaf underfoot does not do a whole lot for me about. I'm not saying I don't like it, but like for instance, someone I care deeply about. For boasting about footwear for all seasons to the crunch of a leaf underfoot doesn't do much for me. It just like really doesn't.

Like fresh snow does a whole heck of a lot for me, Mallory Rubin. Like just the twinkle, even even looking outside, looking out a window and seeing snowflakes falling in the city. Like that is magic to me. It's splendid. Someone very near and dear to my heart, Taylor Swift, like, Homegirl loves fall, you know? And I'm not saying I dislike fall. saying that it's not, I don't have the same reaction. Isaiah coming through here in the Zoom chat.

Isaiah comes through in the chat says, do you like shoveling? I don't, but I simply opt out of that exercise by living in a city. Anyway, fall is a trap. I like fall. I don't know that fall vibes are important to me, but I like fall itself. Anyway, final category. Speaking of fall, speaking of the AFC East. Speaking of places where there is beautiful, delightful foliage and fall tailgators,

I'll kick us off here. It's a trap trade. The Buffalo Bills should not trade one of their defensive linemen. This is something that there's been a lot of speculation about leading up to the deadline because the bills have 11 defensive linemen on their roster, all of whom play. So you're seeing names like Mario Addison, even Jerry Hughes, F.A. Obata and Vernon Butler floated as, potential trade targets. I will offer a caveat here that obviously at a certain point when the price is right and you

have depth at a position, you make a move. There was news today that JJ Watt is going to undergo what is likely to be season-ending shoulder surgery. That's according to Adam Schaefter. So if you have a contending team like, say, the Cardinals, although I don't really see the Cardinals and the Bills doing a deal because they're going to be competing against each other in the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. What a time. I think at this point you start looking at the teams that like could be real. I don't know. Maybe like conferences obviously matter, but I think

you look at the contending teams and go like, I don't really want to do this. However, theoretically, if someone like that gets desperate and wants to just offer you an absolute haul for one of these guys, sure. Obviously go do it. But barring that circumstance, the way that they rotate all those players is what I think has made that defensive line be so effective so far this season. And I don't want to see them chip away at that. Nobody on that line plays more than Ed Oliver, who's only playing 58% of the defensive snaps.

No one plays fewer than Carlos Basham, who's played 14% of the snaps. That's actually sort of, he's played in two games and has played like a third of the snaps in each of those. but they're an important set of snaps. He's got a sack and a half playing meaningfully in just two games. You want to be moving all those guys around and keeping them fresh because that's just been such a big part of what they've done.

They've improved a lot against the run so far this season. I know they just got run over by the Titans, but that's going to happen to you sometimes. Derek Henry is a monster. And if you combine that with what they're able to do. We should do a whole Henry episode at some point. I would love to do that. Holy shit.

I would absolutely love to do that. But if you combine that with what they're able to do limiting big plays in the passing game and just putting a roof over those offenses, it's a really, really powerful combination. And I think a lot of what's led them to do that is not necessarily like dominant individual play. It's just the fact that those guys are fresh. Right. Also, you want to be preparing for the possibility of injuries for a long, season, right? Like a deep playoff run where you're going to play more games and you want that

depth. Yeah. I don't want to see a team like the bills be a seller right now, even at a position where they have just extreme depth unless someone makes a great offer. So I don't want them to do this. I think that's that's really sound to insight and logic. You know, if depth and balance and the ability to rotate so fluidly and seamlessly keep everybody fresh, healthy, keep that burst. intact is the source of so much of the secret sauce on defense and the strength to this point, why opt in to potentially fracturing that? The boys are fresh. The secret sauce.

I'm just yelling. Thank you. Are you workshopping subheads for our next episode? I love it. I love the secret sauce. The boys are fresh. Secret sauce. All right, Mal.

Please stop me before I, I don't know. before I don't know what. Here's my trap, Nora. I'm standing here while I'm standing here in my ship. I'm hovering, right, with dear Admiral Akbar by my side. And we are looking

with intrigue, but mounting concern with the Seattle Seahawks. I might twist myself into like a logic pretzel with this one, but allow me to attempt to explain my thing. here of why this is a trap. Love it. Seattle should not become a seller. The idea of Seattle being wise to sell amid a potentially lost season, that is the trap.

Don't sell Seattle. Here's why. Okay. The Seahawks are two and five. That's not great, Nora. Worse, even than that overall mark is that they are in the 15th spot in the NFC playoff pecking order right now because of the tiebreakers. That is...

Fifteen teams famously do not make the playoffs in a conference. Grimm. That's... Whereas the kids say, it's not what you want. It's not what you want. Do the kids say that? Is that how memes work?

Are memes deployed when you say them out loud and then explain them and ask if you're using them correctly? Is that how they work? I want you to channel Kendall Roy for the remainder of this category. Wow. Kendall, Roy, just here at the start of my tenure in the end of this podcast, just wanted to bring everyone together to say, yo. That's a good Kendall. Want my Twitter to be off the hook.

Reach out to the Bojack guys. I see you, Greg the Egg. I see you, you Machiavellian of fuck. I could quote Kendall all day. Don't tempt me. I love succession. Oh, boy. Okay, so despite all that, eight other NFC teams have either two or three wins at this point.

That tiebreaker factor is real, but it is still possible. Is it probable? I can't in good faith say that, Nora, but is it possible for them to get back into the wild card race amid the expanded playoff field if they turn things around in relatively short order? Sure, they have a 14% chance of making the playoffs currently according to PFF. Now, that's not much, but it's just enough, I think, that they can be. not fully justify going full sell, not necessarily because of the roster or the playoff position. But because of that thing you were talking about earlier with your Jordan Love scenario

and the Packers wanting to appease their quarterback, the Seattle Seahawks can not risk pissing off Russell Wilson. They can't risk alienating Russ. This is my case. He's fighting to come back from injury as quickly as possible, could potentially be right after the buy. They've got Jacksonville this week, which I would think could be a win, right? That could be a game that Seahawks won, you would hope. And then they have the buy.

I'm sorry, Isaiah. Oh. Isaiah is a Jax fan. Talk about grim. if they can get that win against the Jags, get to the buy, Russ comes back healthy, keeps healing, things are all of a sudden looking a lot better

than they are right here at this moment in time. But more broadly, can't lose sight of the fact that we are not that far removed from the off-season of Russ trade whispers, Russ trade murmurs. Oh, no, no, nothing to see here. not interested in being dealt, except for these four potential teams, New Orleans, Dallas, Vegas, Chicago. Still just an all-time little news cycle moment right there.

And unless Seattle wants to be right back there. And look, maybe they will be no matter what. Maybe they are already. But unless they want to accelerate being back there, they need to try to build for Russ and work to keep him invested and content. In terms of the current roster, the current record, the current path, are. lack they're up to the playoffs. Selling would be wise. But in terms of managing Russell Wilson's expectations and contentment, I think that they risk this being the proverbial final straw if they start to sell while he's out injured and give up on this season. So I'm saying don't sell,

but let me offer this up. Why not buy? Why not try to buy? We talked about how many teams are in very difficult cap space situations right now. The Seahawks are one of the few who aren't. They have the fourth most cap space in the league right now, pour over the cap. Now, what they don't have is a lot of draft capital. For a really big move, like it's tempting to say, you know, why not try for Xavier and Howard?

Why not try to make a deal with the dolphins? You know, Howard's name is coming up and a lot of trade rumors linked to various teams. I think the bucks would be an ideal landing spot for him, given their needs in the secondary. Do the Seahawks? Yeah, Green Bay would be an excellent spot as well. Do the Seahawks have the draft capital? You know, they don't have first because of the Adams deal.

Do they have the draft capital to even attempt something like that? Maybe not. But they have the cap space to try to get creative. And they have the incentive to try to keep Russell Wilson happy. Don't sell Seattle. It's a trap. Wow. No, I'm not an NFL GM.

But it's just my view of the board. What do you think? I think that that's exactly what, is going through Russell Wilson's mind when he simulates the two-minute drill during his warm-ups before he doesn't play. I think this is exactly the type of thing that is going through his mind. And who am I to argue with Russell Wilson or with Mallory Rubin? Mallory. Yes. Delightful as always. A joy. Thank you for contemplating some trades with me. I would not trade you for the world.

Oh, how sweet. Cute. What a cute little notion on this podcast on. Precious. All right. This has been a very precious episode of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pryanti. She's Mallory Rubin. Ben Solek, Stephen Ruiz, and Kaylyn Jones will be coming up next on this feed, previewing the week eight games this Friday.

Is it week eight? That's insane. I will be back Sunday night with Kevin Clark, Solick, and Ruiz to break down all the Sunday NFL action. I'll also be back on Tuesday with Kevin and Ruiz to break down the trade deadline. We will be live on Green Room right at 4 p.m. Eastern. Now we'll be back on the Ring Reverse feed Friday with Joanna Robinson. We will be back next Thursday. Our thanks as always. Go to production assistant Isaiah Blakely for production

on this episode and to Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.