The Ringer NFL Show - 2023 NFL Power Rankings: AFC North

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz return to rank the teams in the AFC North from best to worst and to adjust their NFL rankings thus far. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene, who of the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best. But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify for free, by the way. So make sure to follow the rewatchables on Spotify. Hello, and welcome to the Bringer NFL.

show. I'm Nora Pinciotti and I am back with Stephen Ruiz. How you doing, Stephen? I'm doing well. How are you doing? Pretty well. We were just reading the pro football talk headlines to each other because we're recording on a June afternoon. Mini camp has broken. We are very excited

to continue our power rankings series going through the AFC North stacking up the Bengals, the Steelers, the Browns, the Ravens against the rest of the league and against each other. But, you know, just want to make sure we're not missing any big news before we get to the meat of the pod. Want to keep the listeners informed. Stay on top of any, any pressing stories.

And just checking the headlines. Top headline. Bears are unhappy with Chase Claypool. Second headline. No, it's report. Report. Report. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Excuse me. very important. Second headline, Patrick Mahomes to Jamar Chase, quote, that's who.

Sick burn, man. No context whatsoever. Then, DJ Chark, everybody in Carolina believes Bryce Young can take us to really high places. Is that a dig? Is that a short joke?

It 100% is. It 100% is. And I wonder, you think Chark knew what he was doing when he said it, because I assumed it wasn't what he actually said because there's no quotes in the headline, and then I look, and then he really said

he could take us to some really high places. Yeah, the decision tree on when quotes in headlines are in quotations and not is fascinating to me. Yeah. Also, also another bit of news. Mark Davis won't be rolling out the welcome wagon for the a's.

What does that mean? Is he going to be contentious? Is he going to be like, hey, fuck you guys. get out of here. He's going to just like throw eggs at that. Is this funny to anybody else besides, like, this is one of those things where it's like, you say a word so many times that stops sounding like it has any meaning. I think if you just look at pro football talk for long enough, you start to be like, what is that, like, really if you look at any NFL reporting for too long, it starts to be like, is this even anything? Like, does this even say anything?

Especially in June. Especially in June. Right. Like things are like, Matt Eberflus, more comfortable, quote the second time through it. Why is that in quotation? Who said it? I guess Matt Everfly said it. None of this. We are kind of bearing the lead because we were already joking about this.

And I was like making jokes about Chase Claypool and DJ Tark maybe making jokes about Bryce Young's height. And then Stephen just goes, Dion Sanders may need to have his foot amputated. And I thought that he was making that up. But that is a real headline. I hope everything's okay. Wish him well.

All right. We're not here to talk about the pro football talk headlines, even though I really kind of wish we were. It's fun. We're here to talk about the AFC North. Are you excited? Yeah, that's even more fun. It's one of the more fun divisions in the NFL.

Yeah. And in this case, I think the big questions start right at the top. Right. I'll lead off and just say that I thought really, really long and hard about making a case for the Ravens as the best team in this division. Obviously, there are some things that require a bit of projection. we don't, I have really high hopes for the Todd Monk in offense, but we haven't seen it with Lamar. What I do feel pretty confident saying is this is not only the best

wide receiver group Lamar's ever had. Coming in off the heels of a season when he was healthy, there was a good stretch where they were a top five offense. I think this position, group might be the most improved in the entire league. This is a team that last year had a receiver group that accumulated a total of 1,517 receiving aides altogether. That was last in the NFL.

So they signed Aguilar, they sign O'Dell. The O'Dell deal is for a bazillion dollars, but that doesn't matter once the games start. First round pick on Zay Flowers. Bateman, hopefully healthy, missed nine games last. season. I really think it's, it's, for something that has been one of the top NFL talking points this off season is, oh my gosh, you know, everything worked out with Lamar and, and look at the weapons.

I'm not sure. I think it might be getting understated how different of a situation this is going to be. It seems pretty clear that they're going to pass the ball more and that they're going to try to speed up the tempo. from, I believe what Greg Roman described is wanting to get medieval on people. We'll see. But I am so excited about those changes

that it made me really, really, really kind of want to put the Ravens number one in the AFC North, which is all to say that I didn't. And I think the Bengals are the best team in this division. Do you agree or disagree? I do agree with you. And I kind of had the same conversation with myself. And I tried to convince myself to pick the Ravens.

And it just couldn't happen. And I think you're just banking on things we haven't seen yet. We can project what the Ravens offense is going to look like and how it's going to be better, but we don't know. And you have to assume when you're just totally overhauling the offense. And I feel like this is a total overhaul, like even more so than another team changing their offense coordinator. Because you're going from this very unique system

where you were really the only team in the league that ran an offense like that and it required different personnel than you see from other teams and it was different formations. Now to this other extreme where Todd Munkin has air raid routes.

I know that's not what he's going to be running but it's going to be a more pass heavy spreaded out type of deal. So it's kind of like going from one extreme to another. There's going to be growing pains. You just have to assume there will be. And whereas in Cincinnati,

even though like you look at the rosters and maybe you can compare them and maybe Baltimore has some advantages. But you look at Cincinnati, but they already know what they're doing. They already know how they're going to approach the season. And I think that matters over a 17-game season, a 17-game sample size. Now, when you match the two teams up and they play head-to-head,

I think you can make the argument that Baltimore might be the better team, but that's not how football works. Like, you have to make the playoffs, and you have to make the playoffs by being good over 17 games against different opponents. I think Cincinnati, we can bank on them being that good. We don't know what Baltimore is going to be yet. Yeah.

Well, and in some ways, that's the reason that I start making an argument for Cincinnati being the top team in the division by talking about all the things the Ravens did to get better. But the thing is with Bengals, this offseason was not going to be about a ton of needle moving moves. They just, they did not have the ability to do that. But it's a big deal that they didn't get worse. Like, when the season ended, I think it felt pretty likely. that they were going to lose T. Higgins, Lou Anorumo, or both. And they didn't. And when that, you know, they lost the safeties. There are some things that they're going to have to figure out defensively. But I, you know, in Big Lou we trust. And when that is the case, we're talking about a team that has figured out who they want to be. And they were in the Super Bowl two years ago and missed out on another trip this past. season by losing by three points to the Chiefs. Yeah.

So unless there's the only case to make for Cincinnati not being at the top of this list would be one of somebody leaprogged them. Yeah. It's tempting to, it's tempting to think that maybe, like if this Ravens offense really, really, really clicks, again, they were top five in the league for a. solid stretch early last season and have so much room to grow and better players. And

they were seventh in defensive DVOA last year. And if they'd had a full season with the adjustments that happened after the Roquan trade, I think that would have been even better. Yeah. But I... Not quite. Yeah. And I think like, I think the main hope for Baltimore, if you're looking at last year and how it translates to this year is like

injury luck. And I think that's the one argument you can make if you're Baltimore. Because before Lamar goes down, they're number one in the division. And it's not even really close. Like it was like almost a given that Baltimore would win if everything held the same. Like Lamar stayed in the lineup.

That didn't happen. And then everything came crashing down for Baltimore. And eventually they kind of found themselves. And then we saw in that playoff game against Cincinnati. I mean, it didn't look like there was a large gap between these teams. Like Baltimore was one goal line fumble away from maybe winning that game with Tyler Huntley.

and then the wide receiver core that we talked about how bad it was. So I don't think the gap is as significant as like general perception. And early in the season, the Ravens won that it was like a last minute Justin Tucker situation. But they took the, did they split last season? Yeah, they split last year. They lost the week 17 or week 18 game, which really didn't matter because it was like we were going to play each other next week. So we don't want to tip our hand and they already knew. It was like a fake game.

So in the two games that really mattered, one, Baltimore won, the other one, Baltimore nearly won with their backup quarterback on the road in the playoffs. So I don't think the gap's that large, but here's like the butt, and here's why I picked Cincinnati. I think that was the case

because Cincinnati was trying to find itself, especially on offense early in the year last year. They started out four and four. And then they didn't lose, again, until the AFC title game. And what you see with these young teams that kind of followed this path of development is you kind of see them have the big year

and then the league adjust and they kind of take a step back and then you see that massive step forward the next year. The Bengals kind of found that out and like kind of fast forward that process early last year and already figured already figured things out and now I think they're going into year three as like this mature

team that doesn't have to figure things out it just has to fine tune things and I think that's what the offseason was about for them. We thought it was going to be an offseason about like desperately trying to maintain themselves. But Higgins is still here.

There wasn't really an issue at all with that. And Arumo, I think he got interviewed by the Cardinals, but even that wasn't too serious. And then they lose the same thing. It's bananas that it wasn't too serious, but it wasn't. Yeah, it's insane to me, but that's Cincinnati's win. So I feel like while Baltimore maybe had closed the gap with their offseason moves, changing the offensive coordinator,

bringing in the receivers, I think Cincinnati just had built a cushion towards the end of last year of like we know what we are. I think that's the difference between those two teams. Well, also, I mean, look, Orlando Brown Jr. is not, I don't think, like, going to come out of the season with the reputation as being a top five tackle, right?

No. But I think he's going to be better than Jonah Williams. I don't know that he's going to be elite, but it's been meaningful. I think it's been more meaningful the adjustments that they've made in the offense and that Joe Burrow has made in terms of compensating for the offensive line

and protecting himself a little bit better. But they have, the way that they've revamped that offensive line has been about little incremental games. And Jonah Williams was a liability for them, and that is hopefully going to get at least a little bit better. I do think that matters. The other thing is just

it would be different if we were going down the rosters and going, well, Baltimore is clearly better on paper, but there are all of these other factors and Cincinnati has the

recent playoff experience and blah, blah, blah, blah. Jamar Chase and T. Higgins, that's better. I would rather have that. Burrow and Lamar is probably a different conversation, but it's not, you know, reasonable minds can disagree there. And both of these teams, I think, still have pretty good defenses. I think I probably favor Baltimore a little bit,

but it's complicated by how well Lou Anerumo schemes against elite quarterbacks. So I don't totally know there either. So I think given that it is that it is close, the nod goes to Cincinnati. Yeah, they have the passing game. You can separate it with wide receiver and quarterback, but I don't think you have to. And I think that makes the Lamar Burrow conversation

a little less complicated. If you just go passing game versus passing game, it's clear that the Bengals, the Ravens are trying to get to where the Bengals are in terms of being able to be a passing team that can rely on like drop back passing rather than play action passing where it needs to be first and 10

are like second and short to be able to run it. So that makes a difference for me. Like defense, I think I'm with you. Like I would give a slight nod to Baltimore. And I think Mike McDonald is just as good as big Lou in terms of like scheming things up. I think he needs to prove it over a longer track record. But I think he has that in them. But the passing game is king in today's league.

So if you have a big enough advantage in that realm, I think that that automatically pushes you to the top of the division. We can talk about this a little bit more when we stack them all up. against not the entire rest of the league, but against our power ranking so far. What do you... How much do you think the Ravens are going to have to go through

some growing pains with the new offense post training camp, like during the actual season? I think it's just going to take time for Monkin and Lamar to kind of learn each other, especially like Monkin learning Lamar and what he likes and what concepts he, likes. And I think that's going to take more time just because the Ravens passing game had been so different from what we see around the league that I don't think like there's

going to be a lot of carry over. I don't think Todd Monkin is going to be able to carry over a lot of what Lamar has already done well. So I think there's going to be that like discovery period where they're both learning each other during like the first month or two of the season. I do think like at Georgia, I do I do wonder if we're underrating a little bit the fact that like he doesn't have to just, there's plenty of Todd Monkin tape where he was going a little bit heavier. Like, I don't know quite how, if it's quite as much of an overhaul in terms of what they, personnel wise, I guess, as it might seem like. But there is the stuff like the tempo, the pace of play. I was reading a piece by Jameson Hensley,

who writes for ESPN, covers Baltimore for ESPN, who was noting that, who was describing some of their recent practices at minicamp. And I guess Monkin has been very vocal and very sort of like task mastery and detail-oriented and raised his voice a couple of times, not in a bad way, but just in a I want this done, how I want this done

way. And a lot of that had to do with just speeding up the pace of play. And he noted that I think they led the league and delay of game penalties last year. They definitely had a lot. But they had, they ran a play every 41.8 seconds, which was fourth slowest last year. Which is really slow.

Isn't that play clock 40 seconds? that was my question as well. I want someone to explain this. I figured out the delay of game problem. Do you think that means that just like when they took a delay a game, they really milked it for all its worth. Every delay of game that'll stay was like four hours. How is that possible?

I don't understand. How does? They averaged a delay of game. Or is it just like an indictment of the wrong? I don't know. If anybody can figure that out, let us know. Because the Ravens apparently took more time on the average play than is legally allowable. So it'll be really cool to see this offense when it's actually up and running.

There are some ways in which, like, I think Todd Monkin is perfectly comfortable, for instance. end utilizing a bunch of tight ends. And they have that in Baltimore and I think they're totally going to do that. There are some ways, including the running of play every 41.8 seconds, which is just not even legal.

In which we are in a whole new world. So it'll be cool. Okay, let's get to the third team up next. But before that, we'll take a quick break. Who's your third team? I'm going to go to Cleveland. And this is a team we don't talk about on purpose

a lot. So it feels like they kind of have gone under the radar. But you look at their roster and kind of like the moves they've made this off season, especially bringing in Jim Schwartz, I think is maybe one of the better

coaching hires of the offseason. Yeah. This is a decent team. Like this is a talented team. I don't think they're quite ready to break into that tier with the Bengals and Ravens. But I don't think they're too far behind them,

especially if Deshawn Watson returns to the form. that he had when he last played in 2020. Now, there are legitimate questions about his capacity to do that. But when we last saw him play like a full season before he missed the year,

before the suspension... In 2020, yeah. Yeah, he was up there with Patrick Mahomes in terms of, like, production. And he wasn't getting nearly the help that Patrick Mahomes was getting. Like, he was doing this. Like, Brandon Cooks was a good player, but like Bill O'Brien and his offensive

scheme were, like, giving him the layup that other top quarterbacks were getting. Like, they barely ran play action. They didn't run screens at all and stuff like that. And he was thriving behind like a mediocre offensive line. If he can get back to that level, like this is a possible contender in the AFC. I just, I'm not ready to bet on that happening yet.

But then you look at the rest of the team, like the offensive line, we know that's been strong throughout the years. Amari Cooper kind of returned to form last year. It looked like a fringe top 10 receiver. They bring in Elijah Moore, who I thought was, in New York was a victim of his circumstances,

more so than it being like a failure on him. And then the defense, I think, is going to get a lot better. We talked about how talented this defense was. Coming into last year, Joe Woods wasn't the best defensive coordinator. He kind of proved that over a couple of years. Jim Schwartz, wherever he goes, you give him a defensive line, and we know with Miles Garrett, Cleveland has a defensive line. They also bring him Zay Smith.

They're going to get a pass rush, and they have good cornerbacks. And if their secondary stays healthy, and Jim Schwartz gets that pass rush going. This is a top 10 defense, and that offense could be a top 10 offense. Well, and they were ranked 28th by DVOA and run defense last year. It was a clear priority, both in free agency and the draft. They brought in Delvin Tomlinson,

drafted Tiaki Ika. It's not a sexy thing, but it'll be great for Jim Schwartz, and they were genuinely so bad against the run last year. Like, it wasn't like a cute, oh, we're going to sell out to stop the pass. It was just like a disaster. Like, the modern NFL makes this hard to talk about

because there are plenty of like great teams that just don't care about defending the run. This was like a problem. This was a big, big problem. And I think Juan Thornhill, that addition in some ways probably helps helps some of those issues from the second level as well. So defensively, they should be much,

much better because like you said, I think the coaching is going to take a big jump and then also the talent particularly on the edges and a past rusher, like that was there. It just wasn't coming through. And then I think, you know, Tomlinson will end up replacing like Tavin Brian and they had some sort of of liability players or players who didn't have great years there. So they should be much better than they were.

I just, the Deshaun question, even putting aside the fact that it's difficult to talk about for reasons that don't have anything to do with how he plays, I just have no idea what to think. Because on the one hand, yeah, a whole offseason where dealing with an impending suspension is not a part of it. Seems like a reasonable enough thing to think would contribute to a more productive use of his on-field time, a return to form in some ways. When he did start last year over the course of his six starts, he didn't get better. It wasn't like he came in and knocked some rest off and then started to get back in the swing of things.

his first three games were against the Texans, the Bengals, and the Ravens, completion percentage of 60.2, 189 passing yards per game, and a pass rating of 74.6. The second three were against the Saints, Commanders, and Steelers. Probably easier, if you think, in terms of quality of opponent. Or it's not terribly different, but if anything, I think that's probably an easier, easier set. Completion percentage of 54.6, 178 yards per cent. per game pass rating of 84.

So worse by completion percentage, worse by just counting stats, a little bit better by passer rating. I don't know, man. It didn't look good and it didn't look like it was trending in a positive direction. So

I have no idea what he will do. And another thing is, like, he kind of looked affected by weather, by the bad weather in Cleveland. Like, Nate Tice posted a clip on Twitter the other day of like him kind of struggling to throw in the wind. And like a bunch of Browns fans got mad at him. They're like, what? It was just one clip and it was crazy wind.

And it was, but like that's what AFC North weather is. Yeah. Most of the time. And I remember in 2020, there was a game that the Texans played in Cleveland where they were making similar excuses for Baker Mayfield. It was like, oh, Baker Mayfield, he struggled, but it was windy. Look, Deshawn struggled too. So like, that's another example of them struggling in the same weather. And there were questions about his velocity coming out of Clemson. I don't know. I don't know if this is going to work.

Do you think they should not build football stadiums near like big bodies of water? That seems like a good idea, huh? Was this an inadvertent L by the Cleveland Stadium Commission or whatever I'm called? Every team, every game should be played in the dough. That's my hot

no, I hate this take of yours. I absolutely this is my least favorite take of yours. This is a, like bad weather games are the worst game. Snow games, get snow games out of here. No more snow games. It's cute. It's like it's snow globe. It's ambiance.

It's the world we live in. It's the spice of life. And I like the experience of it. I also like watching people fucking up. That's a good point. Like it's, it's funny. But I'd rather watch it. Okay, okay, here's my thing.

I like snow games when it's bad teams, but don't like make chiefs. bangles a snow game. That's my one ass. Don't make that. Save that for Browns. I don't mean the shit on the Browns. Save that for, what are bad teams now?

What are the references we make? Texans Cardinals. Save it for those guys. We need to stop. I feel bad. A lot of people have been noting that we've been ragging on the Texans, which I actually kind of disagree with.

Same. I thought we made a good case for them. I, it's not a good team, which I don't think we're responsible for. But I would just like to say for the record that I think the arrow in Houston is pointing up until the draft next. All right, let's not talk about the text. I genuinely, I'm so sorry. I started this point really wanting to say something sincere and then became an asshole by the end of it.

which it happens a lot, but I didn't mean to. What was the point? We don't know about Deshaal Watts, and we don't know what he's going to be. Oh, I was just going to say that I think there's a reason to, like, the Texans are just rebuilding and some good things have happened, but it's not a good team. And they're not going to fare very well in an exercise like that.

You're still on the Texans? I thought we went back to the Browns. I just feel bad. I'd want people to be excited. Anyway, and at least they did. At least they play in a dome. by no ball. Yeah, I don't

I don't know what to expect with Deshaun. In part because I think the Elijah Moore move was a good move. I agree with you that he was a victim of circumstance in New York. That said,

okay, he and Donovan People's Jones are competing for the number two spot opposite Cooper. Cedric Tillman is also there. Markey's Goodwin is also there. I'm, that is like, it's nothing to sneeze at.

It is a deep wide receiver room and there's some talent there. But for instance, there's, there are a lot of reasons that we're not having a conversation about whether this team could really compete for the, to win the division.

But like, Jemar Chase and T. Higgins, this is not. It's not, I don't think, even though I think they're receiver room is decent and has gotten better, I don't think that they, the best possible outcome for

the Browns, and I think the outcomes that would feel really good to Browns fans have to do with Watson being an elevator, not with like, well, but the surroundings are so good. And the surroundings are pretty good. That is a good roster.

But, especially in terms of the past catchers, I do think, look, they, they might have a top five easily offensive line. So there are certain things about the circumstance that are really, really, really advantageous. I just think that to get the most out of that receiver group, he has to be really good, unless so the other way around.

And it's just such a wild card. Yeah, my thing is like, I don't know. Like, how do you feel about Kevin Stefanski at this point? I feel like two years ago, we would have been like, oh, yes, Stephantz is going to take care of that. It doesn't matter. He's like one of these up-and-coming offensive geniuses. And I feel like he's lost that luster over the last year.

Maybe it's the lots and things. The life behind his eyes. Well, that's true. I mean, I don't know if he even cares anymore. But I think he's going to be able to make that difference. I agree that the receiving core isn't something that I would get excited about. But we've seen in the past these types of offenses kind of limit how good the receivers have to be to produce a successful passing game.

I think as long as you have Cooper, it might be enough if, which is the point you're basically making, if Deshawn Watson is a, what would you say he would have to be like a top eight quarterback next year, top 10 quarterback? Yeah, I mean, even top 10,

I think would be pretty meaningful. The thing is, is like if I think, if he's a, yeah, I just, the other thing is just if, if somebody gets injured, if one person in that, Elijah Moore, Donovan People Jones, Amari Cooper,

trifecta. If somebody goes down, I mean, obviously, especially if it's Cooper, but even one of the other two, it's just not that scary. But it's fine. I put them behind the Steelers. Whoa.

I'm now sort of regretting this. I think you've convinced me. Okay. Can you at least make the case for the Steelers at three? even if you don't believe in that. So a lot of the case is built around Mike Tomlin wins eight games a year with his eyes closed. And I, in my heart of hearts,

feel that if Watson is closer to the quarterback he was at the end of last year than the quarterback he was in 2020, which seems, I guess I feel more comfortable with that outcome than with he's going to be his old self. again, I'm not sure they're a 500 team. In part because and I don't

this is weird to talk about because I don't really think it's fair but I do think that if they are decent decent to good everyone like it's just been really not seemed like fun to be around that team for the last year for a lot of people. And if they are good, I think that will go a long way to helping a lot of other people perform at their best and just feel good about what they're doing.

If they are not a good team, if they are not a team that's in clear contention for the playoffs, this season is going to be another referendum on Deshaun. and it's going to be ugly and no one is going to drop it if they win and this is the part that I think is kind of wrong but I also think that it's true if they're winning people will drop it they'll move on and it'll be oh it's all coming together

look at the browns if they're not this is still going to be a thing and I think it has sort of snowball potential so you think You think it's like the Steelers, we know where they're going to be at, like where they're going to be at the standings.

The Browns, it could be like either or, and the ceiling isn't that high. I will lay out all of my reasoning for that. But first, let's take a quick break. I think the offensive line got considerably better. Yeah. With Seamalo and Free Agency, and then I really liked the move

to jump over the Jets for Broderick Jones and the draft. I think they will have a substantially better performance up front, which was probably the biggest issue with their offense last year. I'm not like, I'm not going to make any big claims about Kenny Pickett. Who seems fine? But the defense is a good defense and Mike Tomlin wins eight games a year. And I'm not, I just, I have trouble getting there with Cleveland. I just, I, I find the whole thing bad newsbears.

That said, I think you made a good argument. I would be willing for the sake of our power rankings to flip them, to flip the order, to put Cleveland above Pittsburgh. Okay, I think, I think we're like at the same spot on Pittsburgh. Like, I feel everything you said, like, I agree with. And I think the Tomlin thing can't be ignored. This is a man that won nine games with a quarterback named Duck. So, like, I'm done doubting it.

even if it's Kenny Pickett. I think the problem is, I think Kenny Pickett's kind of ceiling is Deshaun Watson's floor. And I honestly think there's a lot of overlap in their games that maybe is hard to recognize. They kind of play a similar style. They're both a little antsy in the pocket

and they can run into pressure themselves. They have good arms where they can make throws on the run and they're athletic, but there is questions about their overall velocity on the throws. They're known as pocket passers, but that can be a little iffy. So I think there's a lot of overlap in the game.

They both always seem like they're on their tiptoes. They do. They do. Like they're always looking for a way to make things chaotic. Basically is the best way I can put it. And I think we've seen Deshaun make that work before, whereas we've never seen Kenny Pickett make that work before. And I have questions about Matt Canada.

Even if the offensive line is better, it's nowhere near where Cleveland's offensive line is. Yeah. And I don't think Matt Canada is good enough to, like, get the most out of this offense. His stuff is very basic. I know he does a lot of stuff before the snap at the expense of doing more stuff after the snap, if that makes sense.

Like, it's very complex. There's a lot of shifts, a lot of motions before the ball snap, but after that it's pretty basic stuff that's easy to catch on to. I think that works at the college level, which is where he's been as a coach for the most part during his career. But NFL players are smart. NFL coaches are too smart. They study the film.

Like, they're going to be ready for all that stuff. And I think there's a point of diminishing returns. and I think Matt Canada is way past that point now. He is the equivalent of the Ravens averaging 41 seconds between plays. Like, enough. And that's my concern. The defense on the other hand, this is a defense of just very large, very angry men

who want to hit you very hard. And I think it's going to hurt to play this defense. Like, Aaron Roberts, I don't know about him as like a linebacker going back in coverage, but going forward, that man is a freight train and it hurts to block him. And then they bring in like, they bring in Patrick Peterson, they have the Joey Porter Jr.

They draft Giano Benton to play in the middle of the defense. I love this defense so much. And I think that would be enough to kind of like carry them and carry Tomlin to his eight, nine wins. The offense, I think, gives them a ceiling that doesn't compare

to Cleveland ceiling if everything goes right. Who has the best defense in this? Can we rank the defenses? Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a good question. I'm going Ravens first. Yeah, me too. I think Baltimore is number one.

Yeah. Last year, the end of last year, they were one of the best defenses in the NFL. I think out of respect to Big Lou, I'm putting Cincinnati second. I think on paper. They don't seem like they should be, but they also like,

they make Patrick Mahomes look kind of mid, which is just not a thing that happens in other situations. So on that basis, I think they have to be second. Right. They have to.

But then, like, if you were just taking rosters and not, defensive coordinators, I think I would take Pittsburgh over them, just because it's my style of defense that I like to watch more. But yeah, I'm taking Cincinnati. And there's no, like, Cincinnati doesn't have a T.J. Watt. Like, there's nobody, there's nobody scary in that way.

Right. That's a good point. Yeah. They have like a bunch of eight out of tens. Yeah. Where I think Pittsburgh has a 10, a few 10 out of tens, like Cameron Hayward, a watt. And then a bunch of like seven out of tens, who will hit the shit out of you. So they make up That's a really good recipe That's great It's worked

It's worked throughout the history of football But then Cleveland And we're putting Cleveland last But I think Cleveland has a chance To be really freaking good on defense This could be four top 10 defenses It's not out of the realm of possibility Yeah

Should we stack them within the league? Yeah But I'm still I'm committing to I think we can put I'm okay putting Cleveland over Pittsburgh and doing your order. On the condition that Kevin Stapansky

begins a vitamin supplement regimen. What vitamins would you prescribe? It seems like vitamin D is one of them. Yeah. Like he needs to get some sunlight, maybe some like echinacea. That's a thing, right? Is he on scurvy watch?

Are you putting them on scurvy watch? He's like a little bit on scurvy watch. The problem is, is that and like he's in the, he's in the zone where like he's still human, you know, like Kyle Shanahan is just like a vampire at this point. Kyle Shanahan does not need sunlight or water or anything to live. So it's fine. Kevin Stavansky, like there's still something of a person there and it just looks like he's

been going through it. And, you know, I don't mean to, it's a hard job and, but sir, a juice and a good night's sleep may have. I worry. Just one juice. Juice is actually, juice is so, juice is not healthy. People think juice is healthy. Juice is not healthy.

I don't know why I said that. Whatever. Don't drink. Don't drink juice. Kevin Stamancey. All right. I think this is how the TB12 method got worked out. This is exactly how.

Yeah, let's rank them. Real shake-up at the top of our powering games, at least for me. stop me when I have something different from you, okay? Okay, yeah. So, number one, Bengals. Yes. Number two, also from today, Ravens. Yeah.

Three, the Jaguars. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you there. This is where it gets hard. Yeah. I kept the Falcons for it. Okay, let me consider this. I got to think about this. Okay, so the Steelers are the Brown,

or it's got to be the Browns. Browns Falcons? Oh, man. Let's put the Falcons. Okay. For vibes purposes only. I think they're like equal enough where the vibes push the. Speaking of another coach, he needs vitamins.

Five, I had the Colts. Oh, ahead of the Browns? Yeah. Remember, I also had the Steelers ahead of the Browns. Right. I think I just, I think. I can't do Colts. Okay.

All right. I, I, I, oh, wait, wait, wait, I kind of want to put the Steelers over the Colts too. Like, they're just so bad. I know, I know, I know. But it's, this is a thinking man's podcast.

That's okay. It's a thinking man's podcast. Okay, so we have, um, Falcons and then number five is the Browns. And then six is the Colts. Yes. Are you then comfortable with, with the Steelers?

Yes, yes. So how do you feel about Steelers over Saints? Because Saints comes in eight here then. I am more confident in the Steelers being a competitive team than the Saints.

And that's enough for me. And I don't think the Saints' ceiling is very high. It's much higher. Yeah. Okay. So then we're good because then we have the Panthers,

Titans, bucks, and the Texans, who I love. That feels, yeah, we both love them. Who we love and who play in a dope.

Top to it. They were a top 10 team until this week. There are certain things that I feel it is impossible for me to talk about without just like devolving into sarcasm and being an absolute pile of nonsense. And I'm sorry. That's all I have. I will not change and I cannot do better, but I'm sorry. I'm not sorry.

And I'm all of that stuff you just described. I'm not sorry. this has been a way of an NFL show. Oh, sorry. You're trying to end the show. It's going to end the podcast on that. I like her list too. It's a good list.

It's a good list. This was a good week. It's nice to have like a good, you know, meaty division. Yeah. We are in part. We've been in part. I don't know if I should say this because we're recording on Friday,

June 16th. And I think this is going to go up next week. And we have been doing this. these in an order in part designed so that we don't get scooped by D'Aadre Hopkins news, which just seems as though it will never arrive. It's going to be September 15th, and it's going to be like, Bill Belichick still mulling that visit with D'Aldre Hopkins, but, you know, he did post a selfie with Matthew Jude on, so, and it'll never happen.

But someday we'll have that to talk about. I'm looking forward to it. Me too. All right. This has been the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pintiotti. He's Stephen Ruiz. As always, thank you to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode and to Conorne Evans and Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.