The Ringer NFL Show - 2023 NFL Power Rankings: NFC West

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz return to rank the teams in the NFC West from best to worst and to adjust their NFL rankings thus far. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to The Ringer NFL show. I'm Norprinciotti. As always, I'm joined by Stephen Ruiz. For the next installment of our Power Ranking series, focused on the NFC West today, Stephen, how do you feel about this division? Not good.

Not confident. Weird division, especially when you get down to the Rams and the Cardinals and you try to figure out what they got cooking. And I'm having a hard time of following the recipe. I'll leave it at that. So wait, when you say not confident, do you mean not confident in the order

in which you placed them? Yeah. I think my big hang-up is the Rams, which we'll get to, but it's hard not to have faith and it's Sean McBainty. I have to say, I think this has been the easiest one for me

so far. I looked at it and went, I mean, sort of fleshed out the questions that I think define the floor and ceiling so that we'll have stuff to talk about. But I'll be honest, I looked at this division and went, oh yeah, two, three, four.

And then it gets a little more complicated when we fit them into the rest of the league, obviously. But this is the one to me that seems the most straightforward. So maybe that means we'll have some breathing room, wiggle room. Yeah. In terms of stack, I agree with you. It's easy to stack these teams one through four. I think everyone knows what order we're going to put these teams in.

It's like figuring out the identity of these teams, even with the top team, which I'm sure we both have San Francisco. I have no idea what this team's going to look like in four months. So this is the moment. We're recording this on July 11th. I chose today as I prepped for this pod as the day when I just gave in and was like, all right, fine.

Brock Purdy will figure it out. His ligaments will repair adequately so that even if he doesn't necessarily start week one, he will start the majority of the season and not physically fall apart. I don't necessarily know what I'm. I'm basing that on other than the fact that nothing has gone wrong in his recovery process. I think he has begun throwing some and has a program with an orthopedic specialist.

I'm very happy for all of them. He's also engaged a lot going on in the Brock Purdy universe. So I don't know. His fiancé thinks it'll be fine. So who am I to say otherwise? I've decided to base this on the fact that Brock Purdy will be the 49ers starting quarterback for the majority of their games. Based on not much other than the fact that nothing additionally has come up as a setback and just the fact that at some point we need to decide what we think about this team. So I'm choosing now to do that.

Yeah, I'm not, I don't have the urge to accept Brock Purdy into my life and accept that he's going to be a fixture in all of our lives for the next decade, I'm still not ready. I'm going to hold that as long as possible. I don't know what I need to see, but I do understand why. You don't know what you need to see in terms of like if he can recreate last year or just if he'll be on the field. Oh, no, no. Like how far he can take this 40-9 opens?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's, yeah. I just mean that I spent a solid- or even that he's a long-term answer. Like, even that he's going to. start in week one and he's going to start in week 17 or week 18 and there's going to be no break up there. I am with you

there. I am just saying that I spent a solid portion of the offseason being like, yeah, so we don't know that this guy has an intact elbow and Oh, okay, I see what you're saying. I'm just giving in is what I'm saying. I'm just deciding to say, okay,

hopefully it all works out Brock Purdy. Whatever that means. Okay, that makes sense. That's a necessary first step. Thank you. The first step is accepting that Rock Party will play football. So, okay, 49ers, I think pretty clear best team in the division. One of the best teams in the league, I think, exactly where they slot in,

does hinge a lot on how replicable Brock Purdy leading one of the very top offenses in the league over a larger sample size is. But this was, this is still a team. with the best skill position players in the league, I think. Still a team that's going to be near the top of the league in mistackles. Still a team that can rely heavily on the run. Still a team that is always going to get a lot of yards after the catch. Always going to have a lot of different ways to produce and be a pretty high-powered offense,

even if Purdy regresses a little bit or just isn't as dynamic as he was during those starts last year. what are you looking at as the range of outcomes with him? With him, I mean, I think we saw the floor last year. I really do because I think the mistakes he did make, they were rookie mistakes. And I think the fact that he's gotten this rare opportunity for an undrafted free agent to put up some tape during your rookie season and put up like some tape of you being a competent quarterback,

that gives them a lot to learn from. And I think he gives Kyle Shanahan full office. off-season to not only build this offense so that it works for Brock Purdy because last off-season he was planning to build this offense for Trey Lance, who's like a completely different type of quarterback than what he ended up coaching last year. So I think you have time for Kyle Shanahan to mold the offense. You have time for Brock Purdy to get better at the things he wasn't so good at last year. So I think if we're starting at a floor, I think it's last year, the end of last year. And that was good enough. We don't know what would have happened if Brock Purdy didn't get hit

by Asan Reddick if he was able to throw the football for 60 minutes. I think it would have been a close game. I still think Philadelphia was a better team all around. But if that's the floor, this offense has a tremendously high ceiling. I think it's good enough to withstand any regression we'll see on the other side of the ball because that's where my main concern is, which is kind of odd to say about a team that's starting a second year undrafted free agent. So, okay.

Sorry, Mr. Irrelevant. He might as well have been on track Sorry, I didn't mean to slander Brockford. Thank you. He was drafted. That's, okay,

I don't know that I'm quite as confident in Brock and the offense because this was a top three offense during the time when he was healthy last year. I'm not positive he can do that over the course of 17 games. I do think that the, I think the floor is very high.

This is an offense with incredibly good skill position players as we were talking about Kyle Shanahan. I do think there is something to Purdy's particular skill set where he is mostly that intermediate range, middle of the field guy that Kyle Shanahan has historically liked having as quarterback, but with a splash more mobility and dynamism that can get him out of some of the Jimmy Gropolo oopsies moments, that is actually a really powerful tool in the

the Shanahan Schemean in this offense. So this is not, I don't think he's going to fall flat on his face by any means. I just do think that he looked awfully good when he was thrust in there last year. And I'm forgetting off the top of my head exactly how many starts it was, but it wasn't that many. So to extrapolate that over the course of an entire season, I guess I, I'm not positive that we can count on them being exactly as good as they were last year. But again, that was a top three offense.

So if we're talking about top 10, I feel very comfortable saying that they will be there. If we're talking about top five, I probably feel pretty good throwing them in there too. It's just they said a really, really, really high bar. So I think it's safe. It's healthy to build in a little bit of regression there. But they should be certainly solid offensively and certainly solid enough offensively to warrant being the top team. team in this division. And I agree with you that the bigger questions are on the defense.

While I think, like, that's a fair point. And you have to throw in the caveat that, like, injuries could totally derail everything about the offense. Like Christian McCaffrey has been an injury-borne player. Trent Williams has been a player who's had trouble staying on the field. And their offensive line. Put into dangerous spots. And their offensive line, I mean, Trent Williams is Trent Williams,

though obviously he's up there in age and you have the injury. concern. But, you know, they've got a lot riding on Colton McKivitts on the other side. He's got 446 career snaps and you're asking him to play opposite Trent Williams in a team that is going to run the ball a lot. That line still has Williams is sort of like it's, it's stalwart big name, but they've taken some hits in free agency and they've lost guys. And that is a weakest link type thing where you get an injury in the wrong place and all of a sudden things change. Now, that said, I was worried about their offensive line last season going into the year. I just didn't think that the interior was going to hold up very well.

And a lot of those guys ended up outperforming expectations. So maybe they're developing things there. And I think they have pretty high hopes for McKivitz. But it's not that to me, offensively outside of quarterback health. is the number one sort of pendulum swinging. If this goes badly, this offense could struggle in ways that we're not anticipating. Yeah, that's why I don't necessarily think the ceiling or the floor even are really tied to the quarterback position for this particular team, which is like a thing you don't say about the other 31 teams because the other 31 teams don't have Kyle Shanahan.

And more importantly, I think they don't have this group of skill players. We always talk about like how whether Kyle is. is propping up his quarterback or he's been held back by his quarterback. We always look back at the Atlanta year when he had a good quarterback. He had Matt Ryan, someone who's had success without Kyle Shanahan, and it was one of the best offenses we've ever seen. Obviously, Matt Ryan wins MVP. The thing like we don't talk about that year is the Falcons were loaded at skill players.

Yeah. Like they had Julio Jones. They had Mohammed Sunu. They had Tevin Coleman. They had Freeman. They had all these players, Austin Hooper. And I think that's what we're seeing. being replicated.

It's not necessarily like Kyle needs a great quarterback to really elevate this offense to an elite level. I think if you give them these skill players, that's going to be enough. I don't care who's at quarterback. Like whether it's Brock Purdy, Sam Darnold, or Trey Lance, this offense is going to put up points

and it's going to put up yards as long as those skill players stay healthy. Counterpoint? Counterpoint, they did not put up points with Trey Lance. That's a good point. But he did play. Okay, he played in a monsoon, and then he played like a drive.

I'm just saying it. So let's just clear that. Let's just clear that out. But I don't know. I thought Kyle like unlocked something in the offense where they weren't, we always talk about like the wide zone offense and the play action,

how Kyle likes to run a lot of play action. They didn't run a lot of play action last year. And as they went on, they ran even less of it. And I thought Kyle kind of found a way to replicate the effect play action was having on defenses just with the chess pieces he now has. How he can move them around the field,

how he can put Debo in the backfield or in the slot or out wide, you can put Chris McCaffrey, do the same with Chris McCaffrey. George Kittle can do a bunch of things. Kyle, Ustead can do a bunch of things. So I think he's unlocked like plan A's and plan B's and plan C that he didn't necessarily have in past years.

And then you add in the layer that you talked about where Brock Purdy is this almost agent of chaos where it's almost weird with Brock Bertie because he follows the script, but he can also like go off the script. Brock Purdy, Agent of Chaos. That's what he is. And I feel like,

I feel like this offense has a lot of layers to it now that it didn't used to have, even in like 2019 when they get the Super Bowl. That's why I'm like not worried about the offense at all outside of help. It's, it's amazing how much the escapeability and just the amount of athletic ability that he does bring, how much that changes things.

Because it's not like, I mean, you know, Brock Party can move. Trey Lance, he is not. But in this offense, I do think that we're watching. watching an interesting thing where like there was such a development of and we'll see what the final

answer on what happens with Lance and how his career develops and whether or not he has any sort of continuing future with the 49ers or whatever. A lot of that is left to be decided. But when they traded up for him, it was such an admission of, all right, we've tried to be quarterback proof for X number of years and we got as far as leading in the Super Bowl, but it didn't work. So now we have to find someone special. And I'm reading a lot into it, right? But that was sort of the takeaway from that. And then just because of circumstances, they've never really gotten to see that through enough to get a clear answer on what it would have been and what it would have meant and what it would have accomplished. So I'm not saying that they've, they've investigated that outcome and

found definitively that they couldn't get where they're going. They've just had pretty crappy luck and pretty crappy circumstances. But where that's led them is back to another sort of game manager. But I do think one critically that has the movement skills to get out of some of the trouble situations that when it was Jimmy, that just wasn't happening. And it harkens a little bit. I mean, I know it's very easy to crack jokes about Kyle Shanahan's love of Kirk Cousins. But let's credit where it's due. Kirk can run a boot. You know, he can move around a tad a little bit. And I wonder if there's a little bit of something there that's just finding equilibrium in terms of mostly having the quarterback be someone who's just, you know, paint by numbers, manage the game,

but who can get out of bad situations when they do come. And if they've stumbled on that by accident, it seems like it's working pretty well. I mean, I think that's what it is. I think, like, when you hear about the end of the Shanahan Robert Griffin III marriage, it was like, like Robert Griffin III was very good when he followed the play. But there were a lot of times what he didn't follow. follow the play. And I think that kind of turned off Kyle

to those quarterbacks that go off script more often. But with Brock Purdy, it's not like he's like ignoring plan A first just to scramble outside of the pocket. I think that middle ground, that's where that middle ground is. He's willing to follow the play and once it breaks down, he gives you that something. It's funny how simple it sounds when it, like, once we're

working with hindsight, it's like, yeah, just have the guy run the play as it's called, but then you know, just scramble a little bit if you get into trouble. Simple as that. Right. It does sound so simple.

And like the Shanahan guys are like, oh, holy shit. We never thought that the guys could move. But yeah, that's what it seems like they've kind of discovered over the last year, at least Kyle with Brock Bird. We should. I think another layer that makes this,

we should, we should. That makes this, but this makes this offense even more interesting. The fact that they are no longer kind of committed to Trey Lance being a thing they need to keep healthy. Like they don't need to keep them healthy now. And now you can add this.

other layer to the offense, even if he doesn't play. Like, you could just use him as a running back. Basically, you can have a quarterback run game while Brock Purdy is still your guy. So I think, like, the ways that Kyle can take this offense are, it's just unlimited. Ah, the sacrificial. And even the quarterback. The sacrificial quarterback substitution. Yeah, no, this is like closely related to my, the giant should turn Angel Jones into an option quarterback.

Because it's fine if you run them into the ground. These poor quarterback, at this point, that's what you should have. No, I agree. I think Trey Lance is still out of an age and still has the potential where he could turn his career around fully.

And if he becomes the starter somehow in San Francisco this year, I expect him to have like a great year. But if that's not going to be the setup for the 49ers envisioned this year, I would use him as a running back. Like, just do it. It would be interesting.

All right. What do you think about the defense? I mean, they're just losing debt. And at a certain point, that takes a toll. We've seen it with every great defense throughout the history of the NFL. And I mean, when you rely on that four-man rush getting home, it needs to stay healthy. That's one thing we've seen. Not only stay healthy, stay fresh throughout games.

And they lost a couple of edge rushers. They lost some interior linemen. I know they replaced, basically replaced Javon Kinlaw, who was a failed first-round pick with Javon Hardgrave, who I think does solve an issue. that was exploited in last year's NFC title game against the Eagles, then that's the interior run defense. But I'm worried that this pass for us takes a step back just because they don't have the bodies

they once did. And then they lose, like, they lose Jimmy Ward in the slot, replace them with, I guess Isaiah Oliver is supposed to replace him. That's a big step down. Just losing depth, it's hard.

And then on top of that, Domeca Ryan's, the defensive coordinator's gone, replaced by Steve Wilkes. I don't know what that's going to look like. So I wouldn't be surprised of this defense really takes a step back this year. And that's what we're talking about in like October and not necessarily the quarterback

position. Yeah, I think that's right. Particularly just in terms of how stout they're going to be able to be on the interior of that line, it's a lot riding on Hargrave. I think the hope is that it looks similar to, I'm not saying the defense wasn't playing well, but it looks similar enough on offense to the end of last year where they were scoring mid-30s every game where you can overcome some of that. I don't think it's an issue in the division.

I'm assuming we both have Seattle next, and I think they match up very well with the Seahawks, and it's not hard to pencil this team to go 4-0 against the rest of the division in there. So that path is not necessarily super complicated. though obviously, you know, famous last words with so much in this league all the time. But it is an interesting thing just when we start talking about them in regards to the rest of the league. The NFC is relatively easygoing, especially given the quarterbacks that you're competing with relative to the AFC. but that is probably the thing that as we place them within the top five-ish teams,

I would say, what happens on defense, how they do without D'Amico, how they hold up, particularly as a team that's had significant injury issues in recent years, that, as you said, is probably the big. bigger question than the offense, which if it were any other team would seem a little eyebrow raising just because of the quarterback situation. But it's the 49ers. It's fine. Yeah. Like you said, I don't think any of this really matters within the division. I think we both have the same ranking. And I think there's a large gap between Seattle and San Francisco. And I think the most interesting part about this division is just looking at how Seattle can close that gap.

how much do you think they can? I don't know. I don't know. I think a lot of it relies on the defense, but that's always a question mark just because there's been some questions about where they are philosophically. And I think the answers to that,

we're not going to be able to really see that until September how this defense looks, whether it's like more of a Pete Carroll, a classic Pete Carroll defense, or the kind of evolved defense. They tried and failed to run last year. Especially against San Francisco, they had so many issues on run defense last season.

And that's a concern, right? If you're looking up at the 49ers in the division, they added Jermont Jones, Julian Love, Bobby Wagner comes back. I think all of that comes with needing to fix that weakness in mind. They were so variable in how they played and they changed so much over the course of last season that, as you said, it's hard to figure out exactly. what they're trying to do. I think there's good enough reason to be pretty optimistic.

One, I do think Pete Carroll is ultimately trustworthy in that area. Two, it does seem like they've made some moves to address the weaknesses against the run. And then three, we'll have to see how it pans out, right? Because you're dealing with a rookie in one spot. but Wollin and Witherspoon and the secondary could potentially be a really, really exciting tandem. So the uncertainty to me is schematic to me is schematic. It's how are they going to choose to deploy all of these guys? But on paper, the defensive roster, I think, is in a good place.

I don't think it closes the gap with San Francisco. but I do think it puts them in a better position to at least compete with them rather than last year where their issues against the run were so concerning and I think still make them match up not ideally, but it does seem like they have that in mind.

Offensively, the thing that I wonder about is if Gino's deep ball success from last year is replicable. and if that's something that's going to continue. You are a resident Gino Smith expert. What do you think about that? I think that is the one thing that I'm most confident in carrying over from last year,

just because he's always been a talented thrower. That's why he was drafted as high as he was early in the second round. I think even in like his Jets tape, even the worst parts of his career, he's always been able to throw the ball downfield. So I think that's going to stick. My question is the accuracy. He was number one in completion percentage over expectation last.

year. I don't think anybody, even me, who was like a Gino optimist, did not see that coming. And if he can't replicate that, I think the down-to-down consistency that we saw last year out of this passing offense, they were one of the top teams in terms of passing success rate. Like, how do you make up for that if that does fall off a little bit? And he's not hitting all those underneath throws like he was last year. And I think that's the run game. Yeah. Yeah. They have a way to make up for that. Right. And it's the run game. They drafted another running back. I think obviously Kenneth Walker is coming into his second year after, I would say, an up and down rookie year.

He was really good at hitting on those explosive plays, but down-to-down consistency wasn't there. You hope that he's going to be better now that he's had a full year of professional football under his belt, like in terms of consistency. I'm not worried about the offense because I think I trust Shane Waldron. I don't think we have a big enough sample size to really judge him just because I know it's his third year, but that first year was so weird with Russ and trying to fit the offense around him. and obviously Russ had more ownership of the offense than I would say Gino Smith has. Also in hindsight, knowing what we know now, looked pretty good.

Yeah, yeah. It probably would have been better for the last two years if he had more control. But I am interested to see how he kind of evolves it now that they were bringing in a third receiver in Jackson Smith and Jigba. This was a team that put a lot of tight ends on the field. And they still have D.K. Metcalfe.

They stop Tyler Lockett, you can't put two tight ends on the field and three wide receivers. That's cheating unless you take a running back off, which we know Pete Carroll's not going to do. So I do want to see how they kind of balance personnel. Right. So I don't know. I don't know how it's going to look on offense, but I think there are enough, like I said with the 49ers, there are enough levers you can pull, enough dials to turn where I think eventually they're going to find something that works for them. The question on defense, I think it's how do you stop.

explosive plays. And that was like the reason they evolved last year. Schematically, they wanted to kind of get a piece of that Vic Fangio defense where you're allocating more numbers to stop the pass. You're playing like a shell defense over the top, the passing game. And you just try to kind of string out the run game. You try to force things outside. And the thinking behind that, Brandon Staley has said this. It's like it takes a bunch of four to five yard runs to equal a 40 yard pass, which makes sense when you think about it. But I think the issue for Seattle is those four to five yard gains put the offense in situations where it's easier to get those 40-yard passes.

What I mean by that is on second and third, you can run call play action. And that's usually where their big plays come from. On second and eight, you really can't. So if you get run stuff and tackles for losses, I think that's when you get the offense in situations where you know they're going to pass. And last year, Seattle faced one of the highest run rates in the NFL, their defense, which means their opponents had run-pass balance. They faced one of the highest rates of under-center, which means they weren't just

in the gun dropping back and passing. They had that, like, play-action option. So that's what made it hard for this defense. And I think getting back to the old Pete Carroll style where you're more attacking against the run and trying to get tackles in the backfield will almost solve the explosive issue on its own. I don't want to skip ahead too much, but this is the NFC we're talking about. decent odds that

for a team that was above 500 last year and seems like they may have gotten better in the offseason sneaking into a wild card is totally feasible. Let's say that happens.

They don't, you know, San Francisco wins the division, but the Seahawks got a playoff berth. Best guess right now, are they scary when they do that or is it just sort of like, cool, the Seahawks meet the playoffs? I do think they're scary.

I think Gino Smith gets even better this year. Like I said about Brock Purdy kind of having this rare opportunity as a seventh round pick to have film that he can learn from. I think Gino Smith even tweeted this after the season. He has a whole year to like learn from. Which he hasn't had for a decade. Right. So it's so hard to say what his ceiling is because he is such a talented throw. And we saw his highs last year were as good as anybody's highs.

Like he was making plays that we rarely see. from other quarterbacks, and you have to think that their supporting cast has only gotten better with the first round pick on a receiver. Your two bookend tackles are now sophomores. They're not going to hit that rookie wall they hit last year. Your running back group is more talented, more experience now. This could be a very good team. And if they're as good as they were last year during the regular season, I think they're going to be a threat in the playoffs. Like, even against the Phillies and San Francisco, two teams that I think are going to have a hard time replicating how good they were last year.

Should we get to the bottom half? I guess. I guess. So I have the Rams third. As do I. I don't feel good about it, but I do. You don't feel good about it as then you thought about putting the Cardinals there? Look, I had no, I had no idea which team that I, like, here's how I'll close the question.

If you, which team would you rather be a fan of right now? You don't get any of the joy from past years. But that's a very specific taking away any of the joy from past years. Is that what you just said? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I know what you're asking. I still think I would rather be a Rams fan.

Just because, like, the Cardinals, I mean, they were so bad in that NFLPA survey. Everything is so depressing. I don't really know why they hired Jonathan Gitt. Like, I don't want to be a Cardinals fan. Also, their uniforms, their uniforms are terrible, the new uniforms they got, which matters.

You got to look at it. Absolutely. Every time there's an up-and-coming team and they, like, change their uniforms, they immediately are, they live up to the height. It doesn't even have to be an up-and-coming team. Like the Bucks,

the moment the Bucks went back to those old uniforms after signing Tom Brady, you knew they were winning the suit. And the Cardinals have the opposite vibes. Oh, yeah, that's exactly. It's like they knew they were, It's like designing the uniforms It's a part of the tank

They're like we're going to have these uniforms We're going to be terrible We look like Arizona State in the 90s It's going to be awful And we're going to get Caleb Williams And everything's going to be better Honestly a brilliant strategy Dress for the job you want

Dress for the quarterback you want a draft Yeah Chestnut Checkers I kind of love it Okay I know what you're getting at which is just that both of these teams are probably going to lose a lot of games next year. And for the Rams, that is a representation of moving in the wrong direction. And for the Cardinals, in some ways, it's a representation of moving in the right direction.

Because if they end up with the worst record in the NFL, they will also end up with the first, second, 33rd, 66th, and 68th overall picks in next year's draft, a very exciting draft to have. picks that you can draft quarterbacks with. So in that sense, losing will be less painful for the Cardinals. So I get what you're saying with that question in that manner. I do think that I'm wondering if it's possible that we're underrating the Rams, that the Royal Wee, that the league writ large is underrating the Rams a little bit. because they have no depth and everything has gone wrong. They also still have Matthew Stafford, Aaron Donald Cooper Cup, hopefully better offensive line health.

Maybe Steve Avila works out and is an immediate contributor to upgrade that. And Sean McBay. But still a sub-500. team, I think. But I don't know that it's quite as bad as people are making it out to be. I just think that that core still gets you somewhere, even though it's nowhere close to

the type of place that you would want to be when making the investments to have those people involved with your team. But for whatever that's worth, I just think that still wins you a solid handful of games. And that's why I have them above the Cardinals. But when you stack these rosters up next to each other, there's not that much of a difference outside of those three names that you really know. And the problem is that Matthew Stafford, I mean, who knows what he's going to be? Like, the health problems are very concerning.

Even Cooper Cup, who's like a high, not only a high usage receiver, he is used as a tight end and he runs like a fullback when he's in the open field. Like, this is a guy who's, it's not surprising that he's picking up injuries at this point. And then Aaron Donald is a player who's getting up there an agent has been talking about retirement. So like, also, and Sean McVeigh is like might hate being a football. Like he might hate his life. So like even those guys, even the things you can bank on are still huge question marks. And I had the same question. Like I was like, are we underrating the Rams?

And then their depth chart loaded up on my computer. And I was like, oh, no, we're not. There are like half the roster right now are rookies. And let me, and here's something about the Rans. They didn't have any draft picks last year, which tells you the quality of these rookies. Well, didn't they sign something like 30 free agents or 22 street free agents? I'll look it up.

I'd find the number, but it was a shocking number. Their entire special teams unit outside of Tutu Atville, who by the way weighs the same amount as my cat, is undrafted free agents are seventh round picks. Like their special teams might be the worst special teams of all time on paper. Well, they didn't have any specialists when they, like going into the draft, right? They had like no picks and also no backup quarterback on the roster and no specialists. According to this depth chart, you're actually the backup punter, Nora.

Oh, I got to go. Get ready for training camp. I have some learning how to kick things to do. I found it. Rams agreed to terms with 26 undrafted free agents. A lot of them are going to play this year too. It's not looking good. It's not looking good.

And even the starting lineup, the players that aren't rookies, Marquis Coplein, Bobby Brown the third, I didn't see the first two. Ernest Jones, Christian Roseboom, Michael Hoeked, Akello Witherspoon is still a thing, and he's starting? They just signed him like, didn't they just sign them? He just walks into the starting left cornerback job.

Russ Yeast. Russ Yeast is the one that I was hoping you would say. We've talked about Russ Yeast before, but that's just because it's a great name. Yeah, not a great free safety, though. I'm assuming. I don't really, I'm not familiar with his game. I'm going to be honest with you.

I haven't watched the tape. I'm sorry, Russ Ease. You could be the next Ed Reed, but I don't know. But a lot of unknown players are banking on. And I think the offensive line is just kind of like hope, let's just hope that it's better. I mean, it would be hard for it to be. That is the one area in which it would genuinely be pretty hard for it to be worse,

just given the number of injuries that they dealt with last year. But that doesn't mean that it's going to be good. I do think, look, I found putting the Rams third and the Cardinals forth to be a pretty easy discussion or a pretty easy decision. There is a world right in which, all right, Cardinals were pretty bad across the board last year, but they pass protect, okay. Offensive line does enough.

Kyler gets back quickly and has something left, has something to give them, is invested in a way where that comes through. And they can put something together with that, with the quarterback athletic ability, with James Connor in the running game. behind that offensive line. And you have something.

It's not going to be good, but it's something. Defensively, I don't know how to put a positive spin on it, but I can find a way to say, okay, if all of those things click, this offense could overachieve relative to expectations somewhat.

And then if a few key injuries happen for the Rams, there's a path for these two to flip. I still just think that if we're talking about the few blue chippers in either case, Stafford Donald Cup throw in McVay, even given the health concerns, gets you further than Kyler with his own health concerns. and then, you know, James Connor and Buda Baker, who's mad at the team.

And also the added questions around just like they're not trying to win. That's complicated when, you know, if when Kyler is back and healthy and ready to play, because ideally you can have him play well enough to show something, but just the incentives are so murky there that it's hard to figure out. Yeah, that's why I ultimately ended up going with the ramp surge is because they actually have some talent that we can bank on. And they have a good coaching staff.

We do know that. Like, I don't know what the offense is going to look like. I don't know how it's going to evolve. But I do know that it's in good hands with Sean McVeigh. Meanwhile, Jonathan Gannon, he's on early Nate Hackett watch for me based on some of the videos I've seen. That video where he, is it Puta Baker that he meets and he starts doing laser sounds? Yeah.

Yeah, that's rough. It was a choice. It was a choice, certainly. And then the uniforms again. Right, of course. On top. How could we forget naturally? Yeah, so they're, I agree with the order.

I think we both agree. It's San Francisco. I think there is a cushion between them in Seattle. But I don't think the, I think there's a chance of cushion shrinks over the next couple of months. And then a wide gap between these next two teams. And then I don't, who knows what to make of them. with them.

All right. So should we try to stack them up? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. So the list as is is chiefs, Bengals, Ravens, Jaguars, lions,

chargers, falcons, Broncos, Browns, Vikings, colts, packers, Steelers, Saints, Raiders,

Panthers, Titans, bears, bucks, Texans. Okay. Start with the 49ers. For me, after everything I said

about the defense, I still want to put them second, but I feel comfortable putting them behind Cincinnati at this point. I think Cincinnati, there aren't as many question marks. We know Big Lou is still there. Joe Burrow and that receiving core, they're going to put up points. I think that the offensive coaching staff is starting to pull their weight a little bit more, at least they were last year.

So I think Cincinnati's a better team than them. I agree. With all the concerns and all the question marks about the defense. I agree. That's exactly where I put them. I think. What do you think about them versus Baltimore? I put them ahead.

I put them solidly third. The thing with Cincinnati is being the, you'd probably rather, I mean, first of all, we're splitting hairs here in some ways, but you'd rather be the third best team in the NFL and play in the NFC than be the second best team in the NFL and play in the AFC, I think, if you're talking about

just like what are your odds of getting into the Super Bowl? So where that works out, is they're in a pretty strong position. I put them ahead of Baltimore because for as significant as the strides, I think the Ravens made to upgrade their skill position group,

there's just no touching what San Francisco has. They are able to be so explosive and so dynamic and so fundamentally sound even when you don't really consider the quarterback's contributions. Now, obviously, it's a very different situation that the Ravens are working with, but we have seen it so consistently that that offense is just explosive and good as long as the walls are not literally coming off at the quarterback position that I think just because we are seeing something new in Baltimore and because I think

they don't quite have that level of explosiveness. I put him ahead of the Ravens. Yeah. Ravens could end up with a better defense, certainly. Oh, yeah. I think that's a given. Seattle, like, looking to slot them in, I'm starting with, like, Detroit, that area.

Detroit, Los Angeles. I think, I know there's a lot of Lions hype this offseason. I honestly feel better about Seattle going into it. Yeah, I do too. Going into this year, just because, I've been watching a lot of Lions film over the last week, and that offense, I hadn't realized it really watching during the season, but it's like a one-for-one replica of what the Rams were doing

with Jared Goff at the beginning of the McBayer. And I just think there's a shelf-like to that. And it could be like one or two offensive line injuries. It just could be a certain game plan, a certain approach that kind of boggles Jared Goss's mind like you did a couple of years ago. And I could see that now that defensive coordinator, have a year of tape on them. They have an offseason preparing for them.

I wouldn't be surprised if that offense regresses a little bit. And then the defense doesn't take the steps necessary to make up for that. So I think Detroit has some room to step back, whereas I think Seattle still has room to grow. I also think Seattle just the Seahawks have more answers to more problems. The offensive line in Detroit is solid enough that I don't think they're going to run into this. But like the book is out on Jared Gough. still he's had a remarkable sort of come back here,

but there is going to be somebody who's going to figure out a way to get to him. And we just know what happens there. Gino ultimately has a lot more to offer from the quarterback position. And particularly having added Smith and Jigba to the receiver room and having three excited, you know, I don't want to say solid just because Smith and Digba is a rookie and who knows. But three really exciting players there, I think gives them, I mean, we were even describing it as a problem, right?

Like you have the tight ends. You have a two running back system. You have three really credible starting receivers. What do you do there? That's the type of thing that we look at Detroit and go, oh, yeah, they're pretty staff. They have a really solid group of skill position players. well, so does Seahawks.

And they do have a better quarterback, a little bit less in the offensive line, but also a quarterback who's more capable of answering the problems posed if there's pressure. Yeah, and their most explosive receiver isn't suspended for the first part. Yeah, that's a really good point. Which is a big deal.

They seem to not do quite as much gambling. And before anyone gets on us for the Jared Goughf slander, go back and watch the Patriots game last year. That was reminiscent of that Super Bowl against the Patriots. Bill Belichick can still do that to him. It's not slander. I like Jared Goff. I've advocated for the Lions.

I don't know that I've advocated for the Lions to commit long term to Jared Goff. I have agreed that that is a very, that is a defensible thing to do. It is slander has to be false. Jared Goff is one of the most pressure-sensitive quarterbacks that's ever quarterbacked. Sorry. Anyway. People think he's the top ten quarterback. I'll just leave it at that.

But, okay, here's the fun part. Where do we slot in the Rams and the Cardinals? Are the Rams, where did you? So, I feel confident that the Rams should be behind the Titans. My instinct is they go between the Titans and the Bears. I want to put them behind the Bears. I see the argument for it because I do have the three stars and like Aaron Donald could have 20 sacks,

Cooper Cup could have 20 touchdowns, and Matthew Staff could be a Pro Bowl level player. And the Bears don't like outside of Justin Fields taking this a massive, massive step, the bears don't have anything that can approach any of that. I just look at the step chart. You need 53 players to win football games. And the Rams have like 10.

So that's my argument for putting the bears ahead of them. And I do think the Bears figured something out on offense last year. I know like everything else around Justin Fields just running the ball didn't really work. But I do think that's a trump card that even the Rams don't have. Like what can they can, what is it that they can rely on offense? I don't know. They don't have a running game necessarily.

I don't know if you can even protect Matthew Stafforda lawn to have this like expansive dropback pass game. The play action. I don't know. That's kind of falling off over the last. couple of years. It's kind of hard to see even how this

offense is successful and it has to be given the state of that defense for us. Third downs to Cooper Cup. Right. All right.

I buy it. So Titans, bears, Rams, and then we're going to put them ahead of right now the bucks and Texans

and we still have the Cardinals left to place. I'm putting the Cardinals last. Me too. Okay. Which again,

good. That's good news, Cardinals fans. Yeah, it's the best needs. Get the top pick in the draft. I mean, that means that they're accomplishing their goals. You don't tell me that you go into free agency near the top of the list in Capspace and then, you know, swallow 22 million of dead money to release DeAndre Hopkins

and then sign Kaiser White and call it a day if you're trying to win. You even got like the, you have the coach who you can fire after one year, one or two bad years. you can get rid of the uniforms, you can introduce Caleb Williams. Three years, it's going to be good. They're not going to fire. Jonathan Gannon is going to get a lot of rope. I just can feel it.

And it has nothing to do with football. I just can feel that like, the old rich men who control this team are going to be like, yeah, this guy gets it. He'll get one year with the rookie quarterback and they're going to realize that they've made a mistake. Yeah, but he just like, he wears, Sean Paine or something.

He wears, like, tight puffer vests in a way that I just know is going to be resonant with people in controlling positions. I just, I think it is their kryptonite. I think they get a look at it.

They get a look at a crisp button-down shirt with just like a stupid Montclair vest and go, that guy knows what he's doing. And that's why you have a lot of problems in the world. Yeah. He's not wearing a cell phone clip on his belt, but spiritually he is. Like, because people don't wear those anymore, but the type of guy that he is used to wear a cell phone clip. But it's a little slicker than that, I think.

Like, he wears... I would love... We're going to end the podcast in a second, but I would love to talk about Jonathan Gannon's sartorial choices for like six hours. Because he wears... He wears very, like, expensive clothing. And I just want to unpack that a little bit at some point. Yeah, no, he's like a dresser. Pretty conspicuously so,

but also in the mode of just, like, business dude. Interesting. He needs to start dressing up his defense. How about that? I think that's a good note to end on. This has been the Ringar NFL show. I'm Nora Princiotti. He's Stephen Ruiz.

If you have thoughts on... Jonathan Gannon's clothing and wardrobe choices. You can find us. We're available. I'm certainly ready to chat on this subject. Thank you. Did he sign off on the new uniforms? Because now I'm questioning his...

I didn't say it all worked. I just said that there's something very intentional going on there. Like there are some football coaches who very clearly get up in the morning and, you know, pull on their team-issued stuff. and sweatpants and get out and go. There are other coaches who do something akin to that,

but make shabby overused athletic wear into a fashion statement of its own, i.e. Bill Belichick. There are others who are like, I'm going to make sure that people know that I quote unquote know how to dress, and I believe that Jonathan Gannon is attempting to accomplish this. Okay. Anyway. Let's see how it works out on the field.

For the second time, this has been the ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Princeati. He's Stephen Ruiz. Thank you, as always, to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode and to Connor Nevins and our June around with Paul for additional production supervision.

Stephen and Ben will be back on Friday covering another topic, big question the NFL is facing. And then we will be back continuing this series next week. Thanks so much for listening.