The Ringer NFL Show - 33 Preseason Questions: Dak Loves Train, Breakout Rookies, and First QBs Benched (Ep. 121)

Episode Date: August 4, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark dive into the first three of their 33 Preseason Questions leading up to opening night, including which starting QBs will be hitting the pine first (05:00) and who will be this year's breakout rookies (16:45). Then, 'Watch' host and Eagles fan Chris Ryan joins the show to celebrate Wentzapalooza (28:00) and examine the song preferences of NFC East starting QBs (36:00). Finally, Robert and Kevin discuss which training camp battles matter (38:45), including one that will decide the fate of Russell Wilson (43:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Make sure to watch The Ringers' new live reaction show, Talk the Thrones. Each week, Andy Greenwald, Mother of Dragons, Mallory Rubin, Chris Ryan, and our very own maister, Jason Concepcion, are coming to you live after the East Coast airings of Game and Throes season seven. Talk the Thrones will stream exclusively on Twitter and Periscope, right after each episode ends. And it can be found on the Ringers's Twitter handle at Ringer. They'll be reacting at the same time as you, contextualizing the events and explaining everything that just unfolded. Again, the show is called Talk the Thrones, and you can stream it live. after the East Coast airings of Game of Thrones Season 7 on our Twitter and Periscope at Ringer. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network.

I'm Robert Mace. Joining me in the other live? Kevin Clark, Kevin, how are you? I'm good. I'm in Nashville, Tennessee as part of a cross-country training camp trek. I'm glad football's back. A lot of country music everywhere in Nashville. It's not a myth.

It's everywhere. And I'm just, I'm so happy. to have football back. Me too, buddy. I'm back in Chicago, but I was also on the East Coast recently. I hit Philly. And then we saw each other in Baltimore last Friday. We had a nice little afternoon together. You got a lot of crab. A lot of crabs. Tell the folks how much crabs you had. I had three crab based dishes. I had some crab soup. For lunch. I had a crab cake. And then I had a piece of flounder with some crab on it. And I regret nothing. I would do the exact same thing all over again. It was one of those things, just so the listener

nose is one of those things where I obviously finished up the meal early because I had a normal size portion and then you just kind of went for it for a while. Yeah. It was a great large. I tweeted this when we did it. If I was capable of shame, if I had that, whatever device it is that makes you feel that way, then I would have felt shameful. But I don't have it.

So I was totally good to go. All right. Quickly, you know, give me a highlight from your East Coast tour. I did the East Coast now. I'm in the South. You did sort of the Acela Corridor. What was the highlight? I would say the highlight for me,

was Baltimore. I actually sat down with Marshall Yanda and had a long conversation. By the time you guys hear this podcast tomorrow, that story will be up. We talked about a lot of different stuff. He's a guy I love watching. And it was a fun talk. You know, one of those things where it's nice to nerd out about line play with the guy who's the best in the world at it for a good chunk of time. In Baltimore, I saw John Harbaugh learn German on the fly from a German TV I was gone that day. I'm really upset about it. I'm sad that I missed it. He asked to, he asked for the words in German because he's doing some promo. They want him to read it in English.

So he asked for it in German, and he takes him like 20 minutes to get it all. And then he does it. The German guys go crazy. And then Harbaugh was like, well, I can actually do better. I'm going to do. He had learned German like 20 minutes earlier and now he thinks he's fluent. It was very Harbaugh, Ian. Like, if there's a trait that the Harbaugh family has, he's definitely a part of that.

The level of confidence and interest in being good at random shit that professional football coaches has is remarkable. on both of those fronts. It's just, it's this need to be perfect at things that don't matter. Yep, that's exactly right. And it's, that's not, that's not a John Harbaugh thing. That's an all 32 head coaches thing. And it's amazing.

It just, it's not a slight against those guys. It's just, that's, that's also what it takes to be perfect at, like, understanding how to evaluate a placeholder competition in the kicking game. You know what's unfortunate for the listeners? We do not have that same affliction. So they're not going to have to worry about that here. as we run through these podcasts up until the start of the season. So over the next month here, we're going to have a regular schedule.

This comes out, you're listening to this on Friday, hopefully. And then from there on out, it's going to be every Tuesday and Friday. And what we're going to be doing is we're going to be asking 33 central questions about the NFL season. Obviously, the number 33 is very important to this website. Our boss has a certain affinity for it. That's why we're going with that number. And these are just the things we want to know going into the year. You know, we're going to take some special guest bonus questions.

We're going to get one of those from Chris Ryan a little bit later today. We're going to take your questions from Twitter. But the central part of this are the 33 burning questions we have about the year. Really, I think this time of year it's all about questions because each team has four or five questions. You know, if you're the chargers, can he stay healthy? No. Yeah, the answer to the Saints. Are you going to have a better defense this year?

No. Like, yeah. And so this is the time of year we learn about teams. And so that's why we're taking this approach is, what are the biggest questions in the NFL? Because right now, that's all we're doing. Everyone is on the field right now for three hours a day. And if you're in Baltimore, like nine hours a day,

and you're trying to figure out exactly what the answers those questions are. That's what we all love training camp. All right, let's dig into those questions. And let's start with one that is for some people the most depressing, but for others, the funniest possible one. Who do you think the first quarterback is that will be benched this year? mine I would say is a little bit cheap because he's not supposed to be somebody that sticks around for a while but I think it's Tom Savage.

I just don't see Tom Savage starting more than a couple games even if he is the starter by the time the season starts and based on everything that's come out of Texans camp so far, it looks like the Sean Watson Watson should be the quarterback there. Okay, I was at Texans camp a couple of days ago. I agree Watson will be the starter at some point. I think they're going to take him a little more slowly. I think they have a very smart plan for him sort of working him in. They're certainly not giving him a ton of reps with the first team.

It's Savage's job to lose for the beginning of the season. I don't think it's going to be a situation where he's the first guy benched because I think we're looking at October or November for Savage. I think they're going to really, really bring Watson up to a point where he's absolutely ready for that job because I think that the stakes are going to be so high because that defense is going to be so good. They're going to be in every game. You don't want him out there making rookie mistakes in September,

and all of a sudden they lose two games or something. That could shoot his confidence. And I just, Bill O'Brien, remember, at one point, Bill O'Brien made Christian Hakenberg look like an NFL prospect. And we know that's pretty hard to do. And so I still believe in Bill O'Brien as a quarterback guru. I know what happened with Oswald last year, but I understand that he's going to bring Watson to a point

where he's not going to make those sort of backbreaking mistakes. There's no suggestion he would, but I'm just saying you don't want to risk it with that defense because they're going to, man, they could win a lot of games just with Savage being a, you know, quote unquote game manager and then all of a sudden their defense scores a touchdown in game. They win every game 14 to 10. That could get them three wins in September. I'm going the other way on that. I think the defense is going to be so good that it's on them to get the most they can out of this roster. I don't necessarily think Bill O'Brien is this entrenched coach that can afford to start the season to, and four. I don't see them that way. I feel like they need to get everything they can out of that incredible defense. And if you're throwing games away, because Tom Savage is the quarterback, that doesn't make sense to me. I think you should put the best players on the field. It comes down to a value thing. I mean, is Deshaun Watson going to play mistake-free football? I don't know the answer to that. I don't think Tom Savage is either. No, I'm not saying that, but he's at least played in the NFL and has a little bit of experience. Sort of. I'm saying the transition from college.

college to pro, right. The tradition from college to pro is still significant. And I still think it takes a little while. I don't, I mean, a lot of these guys, you know, Derek Carr came into a team with no expectations, you know, when he was a rookie. And, you know, Matt Schaub was supposed to start that team. And so when I look at it, I mean, when was it, what? Matt Schaub didn't. I know, no, Matt Schub didn't start that. Car won in training camp, but it was a very different team. That, that that team did not make the playoffs the year before with only their defense. I'm saying the expectations are totally different. I'd rather throw the guy to the fire, man, especially if he's the better player.

I would much rather just have him get the reps from the start. Because I think that what they did in Oakland, even if the stakes were different, mattered. The fact that from day one, from week one, as soon as Monday of the first week of the season started, Derek Carr was the man. Everybody in the building knew he was the man. And I think that that should be how they treat Deshawn Watson. especially because of what this team could accomplish if he turns into a reasonable NFL quarterback this year. Yeah, I mean, look, the quarterback thing, does the guy need to be the man from day one?

I don't know. I mean, Dak Prescott wasn't the man this time last year. He wasn't week one. I understand that, but he wasn't the man from day one. This time last year, he was splitting reps with Jamil showers. Everybody was talking about that. When I was in Cowboys camp last week, everyone was just sort of joking around like, yeah, The start of camp last year, you know, DAC was basically nothing. And so he rose up those ranks.

Obviously, you get lucky. Remember, the Cowboys tried to add a veteran. Stephen Jones was talking about that. They were trying to add a veteran two weeks out after the Romo injury, and they just couldn't get the guy they wanted, and all of a sudden, you know, they ended up with Mark Sanchez, who's not, obviously, not a legitimate option. And so I just, I think that a lot of this stuff is overrated as far as being the guy or whatever.

I just feel like there's a difference between being thrown into a five, from a we're going to develop this guy standpoint to throw it into the fire to you better win because we can win the Super Bowl with above average quarterback play. That's a lot of a burden if you're going to start week one. It's not that different to me. I think you should get the full speed reps as soon as you're ready to get them. If you're the better player, you should get it, especially if the team has the sort of ceiling that Houston does. But we'll see. I understand your thought about it. I understand that viewpoint. I just am not of it. Yeah, I just, I tend to when I talked to

GMs and coaches around the league that that college to pro transition man it's still a lot it's still a lot of verbiage it's still you know I mean Clemson did a lot as far as pro concepts with him and I don't think it's you know he didn't go to

Baylor he's not basically counting helmets he's not Bryce Petty here but I do think part of it there's a lot you got to learn and I think that not only are you learning if you don't play and you're learning I'm not sure what no you're have to study the playbook.

I think you learn by playing. I think that's the best way to learn. That's all. That's all. No, look, full speed reps are important, but I just, I don't know. I mean, I feel like there's just a lot of mental stuff you got to get through. And I think that it takes a while. There's not enough practice time, man.

I mean, this is not 10 years ago where you could just develop a quarterback. There is not enough practice time for a guy to learn so much of NFL offense this quickly. And so if you're being thrown out there in September, I really do think you're going to be thrown out there short-handed. The impact of the collective bargaining agreement on rookies cannot be overstated. But if there's limited practice, why should he get the most reps in practice? Why should he not get the most reps?

Yes. If there's limited practice, doesn't that make his reps more important? Even, even you can give him first team reps. He's getting first team reps. That's what I'm saying. Give him all of the first team reps. I don't agree with that. I don't, even if you got all of the first team reps, that would not be enough. I think you need to ease him in. I think there's a lot of mental stuff. I mean, it is, playing NFL quarterback is really freaking hard. I think Deshaun Watson's going to be an absolute star. I think he's be really good, but I just wouldn't give him the reins week one.

All right. Who's your guy? Who's going to the pine first for you? All right. We talk about, you call the Tom Savage pick cheap. I'm going real cheap. I'm going, I'm going dollar store, baby. Blake Bortles.

So there was the report obviously earlier this week that Blake Bortles through five interceptions in practice. that was not a surprise. We've heard so much about Bortle's mechanics. You know, two years ago it was allegedly fixed. I don't think we've seen it yet. I mean, obviously two years ago had the above average season. He's put up a pretty good numbers in his career.

If, you know, I mean, some of the garbage time stats he's put up have really been commendable. But we already heard the reports that Tom Coughlin wasn't a huge Bortles fan. And one of the things I always go back to is I had a team executive telling me, couple years ago that essentially anybody who comes in to the NFL when they get a new team, they essentially want to be like a plumber when a plumber comes to your house and they look at your pipes and they say, wow, man, the last guy really screwed this up. Like, I'm the only guy who's able to fix these pipes, right? And I think there's going to be some of that with Kaufland where he's, you know, he doesn't care. What does he care about Blake Bortles? You got Chad Henney. Chad

Henney's going to at least be competent. I think you also can't have Bortals out there just making tons of mistakes anymore because the Jaguars have so many pieces to the point that maybe they'll be competitive and maybe more games than we think because the defense does have the pieces. The receivers are obviously very good. And so I think that if we go back to mistake-free football, I'm not saying Chad Henney's going to play mistake-free football, but he's certainly not going to throw five interceptions in practice. You know, I think the weirdness is when we talk about a fresh start and a clean slate with

Bortles being bench and Coughlin, is that Dave Caldwell is still there? I don't know why that's happening, but here we are. I mean, I just get, sometimes they get frustrated with NFL teams. You know, what, did we, we talk about continuity? What continuity do we need in Jacksonville to where we would keep Dave Caldwell there? It's an aside, but it's just, it's very frustrating to me, some of the decisions that NFL teams make. Yeah. Anyway, I just think Coughlin, Marone, those guys, they're just going to say, screw this.

I'm not watching anymore this if Bortle starts to tank. I think Bortles is a good pick, and for two reasons. One, what you said, Coughlin has no loyalty to him. Why does Coughlin give a shit at Blake Bortals go? the best. He doesn't care. And the other is that I think quarterbacks can hit a point of no return. And it feels like Blake Bortles is starting to get there. In a way, I feel bad for the guy. I mean, how bad can you feel for him? But it's just one of those things where he has to be so in his head right now. Because you can't exist in the world that we do and be as bad as he's been and not

hear some of this stuff. I'm sure that it's started to creep in. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's just gotten to a point where he falls off a cliff. And that's tough. But, with the... Oh, now. Yeah, now he's going to fall off a cliff. I mean, it's just like, well, it just gets completely... No, he already fell off a cliff. Like, there aren't even moments or of competence

like we've seen over the last couple years. Last year was particularly bad. Two years ago, we threw a lot of touchdowns. I mean, like, there were just... You could argue and you could talk to yourself into the fact that maybe Blake Bortles can be saved. I don't think he can anymore, but it could get really ugly here if he starts the season

the way that we've heard he looks in camp. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if you were gone. And I think that with the changes that Jacksonville has made with some of the moves, how good the defense can be. The leash on him is shorter than it would have been in the past couple years. Pro Football Focus tweeted out the other day that he had the second biggest drop in completion percentage when pressured in the NFL. Clean pocket, 62% completion percentage.

When he had any pressure at all that went to 48%. I mean, you should not, there's no situation. If you were blindfolded and you're an NFL quarterback, you should be able to complete 48% of your passes. I mean, I am stunned at how bad he has been, how much he's regressed. Because there were a lot of people two years ago who thought maybe he is something. Maybe he is something. You know, the comparisons to Ben Rathesberger were always kind of stupid. But maybe he's somewhere, you know, in between the Rothesberger and the worst quarterback in the league.

At this point, I'm not, I have no expectations of Blake Portals. I didn't even back then. I watched what those two receivers did and just kind of how those touchdowns came about. But I still thought that he wasn't the worst quarterback in the league. And I think that now you could make that argument even though Jared Gough exists. So yeah, I mean, he's a prime candidate to go away based on every circumstance that's surrounding that team right now. I just wanted to address the worst quarterback in the league thing. Okay.

I do think golf is still worse than Bortles. Yes, I do too. but Jared Goff played in the poorest designed offense in the league last year and was a rookie. I know. I mean, it seems as if Jared Goff still, even as bad as Jared Goff was, you could construct an argument that Jared Goff can get better. Yeah. They're one A and one B and worst quarterbacks in the league right now. All right, Kevin, let's go on to our second question here.

I want to use last year as a way to kind of springboard into this question. There were a couple rookies last season that just made their presence felt. right away. And I think that in Dallas, that was specifically true. You had Zeke Elliott, Dak, Prescott, both of them becoming huge parts of what the Cowboys did. And I want to ask you, what rookies from this class that are both obvious in the Elliott way and maybe a little bit understated in the Prescott way, do you think are going to have impact on a potential playoff team? Both of my guys are a little less obvious. I don't think there's a Zeke Elliott where everyone knew he was going to be a huge contributor early on and he was exactly as

advertised. I don't really see that this year. Miles Garrett is the closest thing to it. Your question involved the phrase playoff contender. And Miles Garrett does not play for that. So the two guys for me, and I'll add a third one in, just flick at it. But Kevin King, pick 32 for the Packers. I love the guy. The Packers secondary, you know, is basically constantly rebuilding and they're always up for things. King is a little dinged up in the last couple of days, but earlier this week he was already replacing Laderius Gunter and some drills. He's long. He's six foot two. The Packers love that sort of athleticism. Packers defense last year was 31st and passing yards, 29th in passing yards, excuse me, touchdowns allowed.

And they'll look for anything. And if you've got that athleticism back there, they're going to throw you there. The Packers are not afraid to play rookies. They love developing those guys. They can't wait for Kevin King to be a star and then he can leave him for agency in four years. And so for me, I think he's a home run. candidate. The next guy from me, Hassan Reddick at a temple, obviously first round pick for the Cardinals. I think we've swung the other way on the Cardinals to the point that we're now underrating them. I agree. People were so angry last year. I mean, like, I think that we were, did all three of us pick them to make the Super Bowl from the NFC? Me, you and Danny. We all

picked it, right? We did. Actually, Danny might not, but I know you and I did. Yeah, and so I think Danny did. And so I think all of us got so angry at just the way they lost games that now we've just completely forgotten about them. A lot of the reasons they lost last year were some, you know, you know, special teams mistakes, which obviously they've filled the hole with Phil Dawson. You know, then they got less healthy as the year went on. And so I think that the Cardinals actually are going to compete for a playoff spot. They're not going to be the Super Bowl contenders they were two years ago, but they're at least going to be in the hunt. I think Redick brings a really good dimension to that team. You know, another great athlete, you know, four or five guy. The

measurable are awesome. And then the third guy, I'm just going to flick out here, is Evan Ingram, because I think that he is a luxury on that Giants offense, but that Giant's offense man was really good. And Eli, like, Eli will do his best to try to regress this year, but I don't think that offense is going to let him. I think Eli is going to be pretty good this year because he's got so many damn weapons. I love the weapons. I think that Ingram, I don't even know if he's a luxury. I think he could be a really foundational piece of what they do because he's going to be on the field a lot. I mean, they just don't have any other tight end options. He's going to get the shots.

So Sterling Shepherd got hurt this week. We'll see what happens with him. They need those weapons to carry them, though. That offensive line still worries me. And that's my concern about the Giants. As much as I don't know about Eli, I think that offensive line and how bad it is has a chance to torpedo them from the start no matter who's catching the passes. So that's my biggest concern with them.

I love what he brings to them. And I think that if it's him, Shepard, O'Dell Beckham, and Marshall, okay. if the line can even get in people's ways, they can have a chance to be really fun. Redick, I love. I loved it when they did it. It just made sense to me. So we'll see what happens if how many reps he gets with,

as opposed to Carlos Dansby. Those are two guys, Danzby's just a veteran. He's going to be around. Wasn't that bad last year. They're probably eased Redick in, but I think he has a chance to be on the field a lot. They love just cycling through players and using them in interesting ways.

So he's going to get his chances too. And I see King starting sooner rather than later. What about the corners last year in Green Bay? Even when they were healthy, made you think that they're better than Kevin King can be this season. Nothing. McCarthy was putting, was putting him in front of like Gunter and drills on like the second day of camp.

Let's be clear. I'm not talking about Ladarius Gunter. If he can't play over La Darius Gunter, he shouldn't have been a second round pick. No, I'm just saying day one. I mean, if you're a day one starter in the NFL, I mean, you know, and you're a good, corner, you should probably go top 15. Yeah, but Randall is there and Rollins is there and then we'll see what

happens with Devon House. I mean, I think that he has a path and will be on the field more often than not, but there's still a couple bodies that have been around the league for a while that aren't Laderius Gunter that he needs to springboard over before he gets the starting job. All right, Robert, who are you guys? So you said there was no Zique this year just in terms of a guy who you could see the writing on the wall that you have an immediate impact like that. I feel like Corey Davis is going to have every chance to. the offense is going to be built around him in Tennessee, like the Cowboys offense was around Elliott. I still feel like he was the fifth overall pick

at a position of drastic need for that franchise, and he's already working with the first team. I mean, he is going to be the number one receiver on that team from day one. And the way those pieces kind of fit with him, Decker in the slot, Richard Matthews outside, and then Delaney Walker, and then Johnny Smith, that third round tight end,

I feel like he's going to get some action because they use so many multivore in the slot. multiple tight-end sets. I just think that he's going to be the man on the outside there from the start. I don't know how much of volume he's going to have, but I think his impact is going to be felt. I don't think his impact is going to be anywhere close to what Zeeq was last year. Of course not. He's not going to be good.

No, I know. I'm just saying, no, no, I'm saying, that's what I was saying about there's no Zique. There's no guy who we know is going to take a team from either middle of the road or bad to really great because of the situation he said. Corey Davis, obviously, his productivity was incredible in college. He doesn't have the athleticism. I'm not going to get into this spark thing again. But, you know, I think at the time, I criticized it a little tiny bit because I think

you'd go in a lot of different directions with the top 10 pick and it could have shorted up a little bit. I love the Decker edition. I do like Richard Matthews. I've always loved Delaney Walker. I think the situation that Marcus Marriota was put in in his first year, certainly, and second year with the receiving core and the offensive line in the first year, I mean, it was almost football malpractice.

And to see what John Robinson has built these last couple years has been incredible. We haven't told a Mike Malarkey joke on this podcast in a year. Mike Malarkey dunked on us with absolute authority because we were, this time last year, we could not stop making fun of that higher. And this whole program in Tennessee seems to be rowing in the right direction. I'm hugely impressed. I'm not going to short John Robinson just because at this point, I believe in the guy. We were making fun of the Jack Conklin pick last year.

And look at that. He was one of the best rookie tackles in recent years. So, I mean, at this point, look, I'm not putting John Robinson with the, you know, the sort of Bill Belichick, you know, don't criticize him. You know, he's infallible thing. But what I'm saying is he's trending towards us saying, let's trust John Robinson. I feel like he's done a great job. And what I've enjoyed is I like when they throw multiple, I like when teams throw multiple. sources at one position in a given year.

And I think that they did that with offensive linemen last year and they did that with receivers this year. I was like that. I like understanding, we need this. Let's go get this. And especially when it's in service of helping your quarterback. And that's what they did. And I don't know how many balls Corey Davis catches this year.

Maybe it's, you know, 60 passes for 850 yards and four touchdowns, whatever. I think that his on-field impact and what he brings as far as a dynamic goes will matter more than his final stat line. us. I think as a unit, that wide receiver core is going to make Marriota look very, very good. I do like Marietta a lot. I just love his weapons around him, too. Yeah, the other one I head on quickly, he was kind of the further down the draft guy that I think could end up being important. It's actually Pat Elflying the center that the Vikings drafted. He's in a battle to be, and he's in a battle to start at the center.

And I feel like if he can come in and be a solid player right away, the offensive line is not going to be a strength for that team. Riley Reef and Mike Remmers aren't exciting anybody. But I still feel like they don't need to be. They just need to be functional NFL players, and it will allow their offense to be 10 times better than it was last year. If offline can come in be a reliable NFL center from day one, and they can just have five dudes that know how to play in those spots combined with what we're hearing about Dalvin Cook right now,

I think that the Vikings' offense can be average, at least that. And if they get to that point... No, I know what you mean by that. No, no, no, I know what you mean with that. I'm laughing at just the idea that that is, that is, we both consider that extremely good for the Vikings. But sometimes that's what you need, right? If that defense can be the group we saw for stretches last year

before they just got completely burnt out, if every single one of those pieces kind of falls into place and they're a top five, six unit, an average offense plus that makes you a playoff team. That's what I'm saying. You just need to get to a certain part when the other side of the ball can dominate games. And I think that we've seen this time and time again

how much a center can unlock the rest of an offense. And if that guy can come in from day one and be that person in that situation, I think that that team has a chance to go 10 and 6 and make the playoffs. I have no thoughts in the third round center. Hey, I want to go back to Corey Davis so quick because I just saw on Twitter of a video of Logan Ryan

and Corey Davis in an intense training camp battle. And the way Corey Davis moves his body, and the way he's able to play big, and we talk about playing big all the time and how important that is. I mean, he's really good, dude. I mean, I know that I shorted that pick, but I'm starting to come around.

Receiver's one of those positions. Some guys can just play. And I think that it's more important to be savvy at that spot than it is to be in other places. You know, if you're a pass rusher, if you're a cornerback, those guys need to be twitchy.

They need to be monster athletes. I think you can get away a receiver without being that. and Corey Davis seems to be that guy. I hope he is. It would be fun. That offense would be fun to watch if he is just a big time pass catcher. Yep. Look, using your body and playing big is a extremely good wide receiver trait.

So I'm becoming in on Corey Davis. It's going to be a process, but I'm getting there. I'll see him tomorrow. All right, but we're going to move on, and we're going to be welcomed by the ringers Chris Ryan to chat some eagles. But before we do that, let's hear from a couple sponsors. Today's show is brought to you by Against All Odds with Cousin Sal, part of the Ringer podcast network. Tune in as professional prognosticator and antagonist, Cousin Cousin Salle, breaks down the world of sports gambler. From NFL games to competitive eating contests, Sal offers up his best bets and odds analysis while joined by celebrities, Vegas experts, and his degenerate chifecta of close friends.

Subscribe to Against All Odds with Cousin Sall, available on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now we are welcome by The Ringer Zone. Chris Ryan, our first guest of our preseason podcast series. Yes. I'm doing great, guys. I can't think of another podcast I'd want to die on than the NFL podcast. God, I hope that's not true. Guys, so I do want to talk about the Philadelphia Eagles.

It's been, I think a year since I appeared on this podcast, a little bit more than a year. And when I last appeared, I was somewhat perturbed by Howie Roseman's. what he gave up to get Carson Wentz in last year's draft. Wheeling and dealing. You didn't like his wheeling and dealing. I didn't like the fact that Carson Wentz didn't play in a power conference. You know, I like my guys to all have proper bowl experience. But let me tell you something.

Now I'm worried that Carson Wentz is too good because he's out here and he's like, Patrick Robinson, retire, B. Because is he ruining the Eagles defensive backfield? the reports out of camp are that Wence is just Tecmo Bowl Marino that he's thrown him where only Nelson Algalor can catch him I don't know is it possible that a quarterback can be too good in the preseason

I don't I'm not sure that him ruining them is a barometer of anything so in that way I don't know if he's too good but I mean at least he's playing okay they're NFL players even if they're not real NFL players players if you get what I mean. Yeah, I know. I know. If Sydney Jones is probably the second or third

best defensive, defensive backed Eagles have right now. Who has won at Ques? These players came broken. Yeah. Hey, Chris, how did you feel about that video of the Eagles fans crying, watching Wentz? Did you see that? Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, he is definitely, um, reaching, like, Springsteen walking around Asbury Park levels right now. Um, but I'm really, excited. You know, I mean, I think that it's going to be an interesting season in terms of this kind of son of dream team wide receiver cord that they have, but counterbalanced by this weird bride of Frankenstein running back committee that they have. I'm not sure that LaGarrett, Sprouls, and Wendell Smallwood are going to get us through the long winter. I agree with that.

I was a Cowboys camp last week, and a lot of the defensive backs were talking. talking about Alshan Jeffrey and just the matchup problems. You know, when you're that good and you're 6'4 3, there are no 6'4 defensive backs. It doesn't exist. And so it's just, I think that it is to have a guy like that in that offense. I think it's going to make a much bigger difference to people think. And it's not as even though Alshan's just 6.3.

He's got that DeAndre Hopkins thing where he's 6.3 and he plays 6.6. He feels bigger than 6.3, even though he's not. And that's the opposite of pretty much everyone else went through the ball too last. I feel like I'm like at a Calvin Harris show in Vegas right now. I'm like, I'm completely peaking. Listen to you talk about him. He's like DeAndre Hopkins is all I need to hear. Dude, I watched this guy for years.

And the only knock on Alshan Jeffrey is that his soft tissue is just extremely soft. Outside of that, that guy is a pleasure to watch. He makes your quarterback actively better every time he's feeling good and on the field. That doesn't happen as often as you like is the issue. The increase in competition among the wide receivers is good. Another big headline coming out of Eagles camp for you guys is that Nelson Algalore is grinding so hard he feels loose. What? He's just grinding so much he feels like it's loosening him up.

He's working so hard. He's hardly working. It's like the perfect best shape of my life, you know, kind of like quote where he's like, I'm working so hard. that it's not even work. Chris, here's the thing. Wow, I mean, you're allowed to be excited about the Eagles wide receivers

and about Carson Wentz. I would take the Nelson Aguilar hype down like 16 matches until we play actual football. You're just setting yourself up here to be extremely disappointed. Look, I don't sound, he's looked really good, apparently.

I've watched Nelson Aguilar play actual football games the last couple years. And if he ends up being good, you know what? More power to Nelson Aguilar. I am the, I don't need to see it happen.

against real people once. I'm actually the, the Banksy of the Josh Huff mural that's been put up in South Philadelphia. So you can't tell me not to believe in Eagles wide receivers. Is there any reason, what's my biggest cause for concern

among the Eagles? I think that the biggest cause for concern just because of how destructive it would be would be if Carson Wentz had these new weapons if the offensive line's good, if the offense around him warrants him taking a huge step forward, and it ends up that just Carson Wentz isn't that good.

That would be the worst thing that could possibly happen to Eagles fans this year. I'm about to- Oh, Ryan, fire you into the moon. What are your thoughts on that? I don't like that. I don't like considering that. I do think that there is probably, it is a strange sense of confidence about Wentz for somebody who's

kind of had a half a season of good football. But I think it's just more that that side of the ball, even during Eagles heyday of like, the Andy Reed Donovic McNabb era so the more recent Eagles heyday and even like during the Chip and Vic and Ful's era they were always just like it just felt like

it was hanging by a piece of dental floss that whole the whole passing attack and even McNabb was like always frustrating for fans because it was just like throwing at guys ankles on third and six and you throw ball four yards we talk about playing big and playing to be six six everybody on the McNabb receiving

core played to be like one foot three inches because of his throws. Yeah and I think it secretly Andy Reid invented Moneyball. It's just that it didn't work out. He was like, Fred Mitchell can do the job of any wide receiver and it was like, no, he can't. But yeah, I'm excited for

the passing attack. I'm excited for Dr. Doug's yards after the catch offense. I'm just a little concerned. I mean, I love Jim Schwartz and there's a lot of guys on this defense that I like. I'm trying to talk myself into the Timmy Jernigan fan club. I was wondering if that was a wrong move on my part. I wrote about him last week. I think that he's the perfect guy to step in for Benny Logan.

Because Benny Logan was a really good run stuffer and so is Timmy Jernigan. But Timmy Jernigan is also quick and has some explosion. The way they're talking about him, Chris, I don't think is bullshit. I feel like they're really excited about what he is. Chris, I will tell you though, my favorite part of Eagles camp was not talking to Timmy Jernigan was walking in. It was walking in. And one of the fields is named after Brian Dawkins. And there was a picture of Brian Dawkins. And just a green and black, like cartoonish image of Brian Dawkins was enough to get me pumped.

Like I wanted to go out and play solely because I saw his image. I thought you would appreciate that. If you play on that field, you have to turn yourself into a human torpedo. It wouldn't be hard. I was halfway there anyway. I'm excited. I mean,

and also now that I've seen footage of Kirk Cousins out on the practice field rapping Hamilton lyrics. I feel like we are in, if not pole position for the division, we're right behind the Cowboys. Well, that's one, and then Eli's the quarterback of the other team.

Yeah, I mean, seriously, like all we have to worry about is Dak. I have a nugget. I have a nugget about that. You know what Dak's favorite song is? What? Oh, man. Drops of Jupiter by train.

There's no way that's true. How? I swear to God, Google it. Dak Prescott's, he has said this, he is on the record. His favorite song ever is Drops of Jupiter by train. That's not even the best train song and there aren't any good train songs. What is the best, what is the best train song, Mays? I think the other single, like, me for Jim.

That one's better than drops of Jupiter if we're like ranking train songs, which I can't believe we are. Guys, guys, guys. Here's the quote. Here's the quote. My favorite song ever is Jobs for Jupiter by Train. it's one of the songs I listened to before games. It's chill, but it's also upbeat at the same time. I can't believe the Cowboys have ever won a football game.

They're only four and twelve this year. It's over. That's not even a good description of this song. That should be a running thing. We should just find all the terrible music criticism we can from players and just read it on the podcast. I think that'd be better than the shows we actually do. Music unites the Eagles. I mean, we're not going to top that.

stuff where Wence was in, uh, was having camp out in Fargo and all the wide receivers were like, we can't find any hip-hop stations on the radio out here. Who was this to the radio? These kids don't have oxcords. They're all like 22 years old. I know, but they were probably driving like, you know, the rental Impala from the whatever cornfield they landed on, you know, from Uncle Jimmy's hang glider that they caught to get in there. It's a 91 Impala.

Even the tape deck is broken. Yeah, no, I, I like this. vibes of this of this team and they seem to be bonding pretty well I've been it's weird it's like you know you get this feeling where you're one thing that's really educating me about how old I've become is that we have now hit a period of dream team nostalgia

like I've seen like a wave of articles about do you remember how many members of the dream team can you guys mention remember why would anyone be nostalgic about that why was like the biggest It was a terrible team. It got fired. It was incredible. Why would you do that?

It's amazing that Howie Roseman made the dream team and then came back. Was Howie responsible? Is that more a banner? It's like when Sean Spicer is going to come back. I mean, that's a whole different conversation. It's been a long and winding road for the Eagles front office. Yeah. Well, I'm excited, guys.

I mean, I have high hopes. I'm expecting playoffs. But I'm sure you guys. I like your team, man. I'm pumped. Thanks, man. I think they're going to be good. I appreciate it.

Hi, buddy. Thanks for doing this, and we'll talk to you. Talk to you guys soon. Thanks, buddy. All right. Thank you very much to Chris. And we're going to move on to our third question right now. And it's which training camp battles will actually matter.

You know, guys that win spots for teams that have a shot to do something. And, you know, appropriately left, I'm going to stick with the Eagles. I think that their secondary is going to matter so much in terms of who's back there. I wrote about this last week. We mentioned Jernigan a little bit earlier. But I wrote about the past rushing group as a whole. And I feel like they have a chance to be one of those units that can take over the entire league, that can make that Eagles team a contender almost on their own.

You think about Jernigan, Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham was a superstar at this point. Vinnie Curry is underrated. They get a bad season. They play more inside than he's going to this year. They bring in Chris Long. They draft Derek Barnett in the first round. That is an immense amount of talent. if they can get a couple guys on the back end

that can just run step for step with the receiver every once in a while, I feel like that defense has a chance to be one of the best in the entire league. I love Brandon Graham, but I'm going to stop short of calling him a superstar. Why? I mean, is he one of the 10 best players in the league?

That's how I consider a superstar. He's one of the best four edge rushers in the league at this point. I think 25, I don't bet more than 10 with superstars, but that's fine. I guess I have a higher bar for superstar. You do. It's a nebulous term. I mean, who cares? Yeah, no, I know. I'm just saying, Graham, I, yeah, he's good. He's good. Okay, so I agree with you. I think that the, I think there's a lot of reason for optimism.

You know, I think that the NFC East is going to be an incredibly weird division. I don't see two playoff teams. I've talked about this before. I think it's going to be, I mean, I think it's going to come down to an extremely small, amount of place because I think everyone's going to be hovering around nine to ten wins. And so I think these little upgrades in Philadelphia could play a huge difference. I really do think it's going to, it's going to be like a race to 10 wins with Philly, New York, and Dallas. Yeah, I just think that if we were talking about the Eagles offense so much before, and if they can take a step forward, which I think they will, I think this defense is going to be

enough to put them in the hunt. And I'm just really curious to see who plays back there. They signed Patrick Robinson in the offseason. That was the big move that they made. Ron Brooks is the other, I guess you call him a veteran corner. They don't have that many older guys. It's a lot of youth back there. And I don't know, is Rasul Douglas, their third round pick and a win one of those jobs? I don't see why he can't based on who he's performing against.

So who ends up back there is going to be something I keep my eye on just because I love the rest of this group so much that I want to see how they eventually fill it out. What do you think the Eagle's ceiling is this year? I think they can be really good. Everything breaks right. Everything breaks right. What happens? I think they go in 12 games if everything breaks right. I seriously do.

I think they can be an NFC contender if everything breaks right. That involves a very significant stuff from Wetz. But if we're talking about everything breaking right, I think that that can happen. No, I agree. I agree.

I think they could make the NFC championship game, something like that. I agree with you. If that's a game wrecking defense And the offense, again, it's like a, the defense is better than Minnesota's, I think, at this point. It's close, but that's how much I like them. It's similar to what the Vikings were. So if the offense takes a huge leap, they can be scary.

One of the things I want to make clear is when we're talking about everything breaking right, that includes Doug Peterson being a good coach. Yes, that's everything. Because we don't actually know that. We don't actually know if that's the case. And so, like, that's one of the variables. In the same way that Carson Winston needs to make a jump,

so does Doug Peterson in the head coaching department. So that's what we mean by everything breaking right is there's a scenario in which everyone's good and then they made the NFC, excuse me,

the NFC championship game. All right, which one of you keeping your eye on Kevin? Which training camp battle matters the most to you? You know, Danny Kelly's been talking about

this all off season and I totally agree with them. It's the Seattle offensive line battle because you have Luke Jokel they're competing. It's unclear it's unclear if he's going to be a guard

or a tackle in that system. Schneider and Carroll are sort of a disagreement at this point. Is George Fan can win the job of tackle? I think that because there aren't huge names there, we're sort of overlooking it, it's a really crucial thing that they can get five guys who are going to protect Russell Wilson. Because as we saw, A, the starters weren't that good last year, and the depth was horrendous. When they were, you know, had to go to packups against Atlanta, it got pretty ugly, pretty fast.

Russell Wilson's ability to climb the pocket and his ability to extend plays is as good as anybody in the NFL but he needs something man that offensive line he was behind during the Super Bowl winning season was really good and the idea that he's getting no protection now it's kind of sad because I think Russell Wilson has a capability

to be a top three top five quarterback in the NFL I think he has maybe the highest the second or third highest pass rating NFL history he's a really good quarterback and I just need him and not get the crap knocked out of him That's my one ask. And so I don't necessarily have a preference to who the five are, but this is a Russell Wilson observer.

I just need them to settle on five guys who are okay. This is a training camp battle. This is why I was laughing. I totally agree that you said, by the way. The reason that I'm laughing is that this is a training camp battle in the truest sense because it's pretty much the Royal Rumble. It's like George Fants music starts to play and he runs out. There is a situation.

where all five of these guys start in different positions than the ones we see them in right now. Would you be surprised at all? It was like Justin Britt kicks back to guard or somehow moves to tackle and Fant loses out and then a head of bow comes in and Jockel bumps out to tackle. You could do it a million different ways

and none of them are just an outcome that I would look at and say, yeah, that doesn't look right. There's no way that happens. It's incredible. I would believe, I would, the Seahawks personnel decisions are sort of in the Tyson zone, Bill Simmons Tyson zone. So true.

It's just like tomorrow they could just like, I don't know, you know, Michael Bennett could be playing center or something. It's like, oh yeah, that's okay, fine, whatever. I believe it. I mean, their ability to make anyone an offensive lineman is really, really exciting. So it's not just those five guys and, you know, those seven guys, if you expand it, competing for jobs. It's also anyone they want to make an offensive lineman. Or, by the way, if you want to include any basketball player, you can do that. So if you were to just, so anyone who's ever played basketball is also being considered for these positions.

So that makes it like a couple hundred thousand people are competing for these jobs. And there's comedy inherently in it, but this stuff matters because of how much talent that roster still has. I mean, who ends up in those spots is huge because this team could win the Super Bowl again if it breaks right. And for them, it's not about everything breaking right. It's just about those five guys. that's it. All they have to do is have that break right and they're going to, I mean, probably I'm trying to think, yeah, they're going to win the NFC West pretty handily if that happens.

The only way they can lose the NFC West, in my opinion, is a weird golf renaissance, which is not going to happen. That's your scenario where they lose? No, I was just thinking of the weirdest thing I could possibly think of it. I was going to say, what the hell are you talking about? Oh, that's great. I was just thinking of the weirdest thing that could possibly happen. I was just thinking of different scenarios.

Okay, so golf is probably going to be bad. I would say Earl Thomas getting hurt is the more problematic thing. No, I was getting to that, Robert. I was getting to that. I was thinking of outside influences before I get into the possibility that it could be a self-inflicted wound. So some sort of weird golf jump from worst quarterback in the league to fourth worst quarterback in the league, which is in play. and then or you get to Seattle. I mean, it just, it could be self-inflicted.

And the only way they could lose the NFC West title is if Russell Wilson gets hurt, which is a biopart of the offensive line, or if the offensive line is so horrendous that they just can't get anything done offensively. Those are really the only scenarios I see. I could see even that defense in Seattle taking a step back and they still won the NFC West because really I don't see, I don't see that talent of a roster. You know, we talked earlier in the pot about the car. Cardinals. I think they're a candidate to win nine or ten games. I think it's pretty much a lock that

Seattle wins more than the nine or ten games barring absolute disaster from the O-line. Yeah, most of the outcomes, even if they're bad, probably end with them winning double-digit games, which you can't say that about many other rosters in the league. They're almost like the NFC West's New England. Yeah. It's an after-air. Where it's just like they've got it and we're just trying to figure out everything else. I totally agree. All right, buddy, that's it. That's the first three of our 33. We'll be back next Tuesday. We'll answer more of those big questions. hopefully we'll get some from you guys and we'll have time to. And then we'll be back every Tuesday and Friday from now until actual football starts.

And I don't know about you, bud, but I'm pretty excited about that. Fired up. Fired up. Ten more cities to go on this camp tour, baby. All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back on Tuesday.