The Ringer NFL Show - A Final Look at the Preseason NFL Team and QB Power Rankings

Episode Date: September 6, 2022

Jason and Austin get together to examine their preseason team power rankings one last time before Week 1 of the NFL season, with special focus on the Rams (3:11), Chargers (7:37), Cowboys (15:09), Titans (22:18), Dolphins (26:15), Raiders (30:29), and Seahawks (37:41) Finally, The Ringer's own Steven Ruiz joins the pod to discuss and debate his QB rankings.(42:20) Hosts: Jason Goff and Austin Gayle Guest: Steven Ruiz Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Production Assistance: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Call me sentimental, but to me, the most joyful moment in sports is the soccer goal. And when that goal happens at the World Cup, well, it's pretty good. I'm Brian Phillips. With the 2022 Men's World Cup approaching, I'm making a podcast called 22 goals on the Ringer Podcast Network. It's about 22 of the most fire emoji goals in the history of the tournament. We're going to have so much fun. Week zero when it comes to NFL football, like how?

college football does, which, you know, don't even get me started on the week zero madness. But we have power rankings ahead of the season lidlifter coming up here. We got the Buffalo Bills versus the Los Angeles Rams. You get the chance to see Vaughn Miller go against his old team. But before all that, it's the A.G and JG show right here. I guess you can call it that. It's the Ringer NFL show, Austin Gale, Jason Gough. We will be joined by Stephen Ruiz at the end of this thing so we can pick apart his

quarterback rankings. But first, we need to jump into what Austin has been doing, was he's been cooking up in the lab because fresh rankings out there for all you NFL fan bases who need to go at somebody Austin go ahead and give your Twitter feed because I don't want them coming from me. I'm going to say some things that's going to piss a lot of people off and I'm going to dissect these these rankings with you. But let's get it started, man. I'm happy to always be with you here every Tuesday in the ringer world. I won't call it the ring of verse because I get in trouble for copyright infringement. You know what I mean? But how you doing, brother? Doing fantastic. We were officially recording this

here on Tuesday, two days away from real NFL football. But I'll say this. I know this is an NFL podcast. I know this is an NFL feed. But I am on Cloud 9 after what was a spectacular week one in college football. I have some takes. I'll save them for the ringer gambling podcast. We're going to be doing some college

football on that feed on Thursdays. But I am excited that football's back. Football is back. And when football comes back, guess what comes with it? A lot of freaking lists. A lot of list. Quarterback rankings, team power rankings, best offenses, best offensive lines. And today, we're going to be looking at my initial, my inaugural power rankings of the NFL.

I'm going to be doing these every single week on ringer.com. Also, you can follow me on Twitter at Austin Gale underscore, formerly PFF underscore Austin Gale, but here at the ringer now. Excited to talk about these power rankings, man. And when we get Steven on, the quarterback guru, excited to talk about some of the rankings he has for the quarterbacks. That's debuted on the ringer.com as well. Well, let's just get some teams out of the way that we will not be discussing on this one

before those fan bases come for our heads. I'm based here in Chicago. Bears fans, you're already on the clock. we already know the vibes. You're watching as much college football as you possibly can as Ryan Poles and Matt Eberfluse have underwhelmed and put nothing around Justin Fields. You got the Texans.

We won't even get to. Shout out to Love You Smith, but we're not going to get to the Texans. We're not going to bore you with that kind of nonsense. The bottom five teams, we could probably try to stay away from. Although we will be talking about one of Stephen Ruiz's tie-ins here because Gino Smith and the Seattle Seahawks

are going to come up in conversation here, as well as the Giants and the Jets, because we have to serve the New York audience as always. But let's start at the defending champs because I find it interesting that, you know, you usually don't consider back-to-back in NFL, you know, parlances in NFL environments. You don't talk about back-to-back championship run. So you try to find out what flaws the champion or the Super Bowl winners have and go from there.

The Los Angeles Rams are an interesting test case because, you know, this isn't the first time Matt Stafford has had. elbow troubles. I mean, hell, he had shoulder problems in Detroit, which led to him doing the sidearm thing and showing off all his different vast, his vast array of, like, arm angles that he could pull off. But now, no Andrew Whitworth, left tackle, who's obviously one of the team leaders. Vaughn Miller is now Buffalo Bill. He'll be facing off against them in the Thursday night, lid lifter to the season. The Rams, are they not being talked about enough? And if not, why? They were probably the most difficult team for me to rank. I've seen them as high as one.

I've seen them outside the top five. For me, I have the Buffalo Bills at the number one spot on my initial power rankings. Tampa Bay at two, Chiefs at three, Packers at four. And then finally, in this last tier of like Super Bowl or bust, right? The expectations are to win a ring for these five teams. And that fifth team being the Los Angeles Rams. And you mentioned Whitworth and Von Miller leaving. I think that is the well tequila to what could be a Super Bowl hangover.

And then you factor in some of this Matthew Stafford stuff, right? Like him having some elbow soreness, him not being in all these practices. I know every single quote you see from McVeigh or from Stafford is that everything's fine, no hesitations, but still something to monitor. And then you look at the receiving core, Van Jefferson suffered an injury this offseason, not practicing this week, likely out. That leaves you without a receiver after losing Robert Woods, after losing Odo Beckham Jr. Yes, they added Alan Robinson and wrote a piece for the ringer.com about how excited everyone

is for his presence, but how quickly will it hit? You have Matthew Stafford, Cooper Cup, Aaron Donald. After that, a lot has to go well for this Rams team, for them to be better. better than the Packers and the Bucks and the NFC. And that's the conversation, right? It's not, are the Rams a good football team? Yes, of course they're a good football team. But are they better than these two other teams that are ranked ahead of them in any odds book

or any sports book, rather, in the Green Bay Packers and Buccaneers. I put them third in the NFC behind the Bucks and the Packers. Excited for them to prove me wrong, though, because I love Alan Robinson. I love Matthew Stafford. He ranked outside the top 10 on Ruiz's quarterback rankings, which we'll get there. But I still think he's a really damn good quarterback. This Rams team could be in line for a Super Bowl hangover. not because they're a bad football team all of a sudden,

but because there may be better teams in Green Bay and Tampa Bay. You mentioned the No Odell Beckham Jr. situation. Of course, Cooper Cup led everything in all-world receiver. He's a Super Bowl MVP. Do you think that Sean McVeigh, he's in store for his toughest coaching job as Los Angeles Rams head coach?

Because coming off of the Super Bowl, you know, we're done with the Jared Golf conversations and would this team be able to take it to the next level with a different quarterback. Matt Stafford obviously did that. But what kind of job do you think he has to do to kind of supplement some of those things that aren't there anymore, especially on the offensive side of the football? You mentioned Alan Robinson already.

I don't think it will be his toughest job, right? I think trying to win deep in the postseason consistently with Jared Goff is an absolutely tall order. He's far down of anybody's list for quarterback rankings. But I do think this season of any season, he enters with the highest expectations, right? You're coming off of a Super Bowl. And even after losing OBJ was an OBJ still could come back for the postseason, there's conversation about when he gets healthy, returning to the Rams, but he's not with the team now, right?

And then you also lose Whitworth and Von Miller. That's where you have these high expectations, but you've lost a lot of star power. Now, let's talk about these additions. We already talked about Alan Robinson, but on defense, everyone is talking about the return of Troy Hill, had a lot of success in this Rams defense before leaving. And then Bobby Wagner,

off ball linebacker, long time Seattle Seahawk is now playing with Los Angeles Rams. And when I was there at Rams camp, in addition to everyone talking about Matthew Stafford's elbow, a lot of people are bringing up Bobby Wagner in the middle of that defense and him being a leader for a football team on that side of the ball that maybe doesn't need it with Aaron Donald and a lot of other talent and Jalen Ramsey, but it is a help.

It is a huge help for the second level of that defense. The Rams, again, are going to be a damn good football team. I just worry about ranking them ahead of the Bucks and the Packers. The Packers obviously return back-to-back MVP Aaron Rogers, arguably the best quarterback in the NFL right now. And when you look at the Bucks, Tom Brady comes back. They're able to re-sign Carlton Davis, re-signed Chris Godwin. This team is looking to run it back as well.

So I like both those teams better, however, all of them are in my top five. All right. Let's stay in L.A. because right outside that top five in your rankings, you've got the Los Angeles charges. Justin Herbert, the coordination continues. He is not just a star, but he's going to be one of the faces of this league in short order as the young quarterback start to mount up on you. Mahomes and Allen and Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, all those guys in that group

fighting for that top three or top four position once Aaron Rogers. And of course, Tom Brady move on. that's going to be. But charges went out, did what they had to do in free agency. In the offices, I should say, they addressed the outside linebacker position opposite of Bosa. They go out and get Kaleo Mack. This is one of those things where Brandon Staley is probably on, I don't say the hot seat, but it's time. You know, the late game decisions, you know, they're not making it to the playoffs. All that goes out the window now, especially when you got a rookie, a quarterback, I should say, on his rookie contract.

That's really where I want to kind of center this conversation. The Los Angeles Chargers are right outside my Super Bowl or bust tier at number six behind the Los Angeles Rams. And I think it's because as constant as Christmas in December, we are hyping up the chargers in September, right? Everyone is so excited about the Chargers every single year. And yet they never, you know, exceed expectations, did not make the playoffs last year. And when I bring up, you know, when I bring up this season, I think on paper, there's

every reason to hype, right? I mean, Justin Herbert's arguably a top five quarterback. already in the NFL, could ascend to that one spot sooner rather than later. Defensively, they add Sebastian Joseph Day, Khalil Mack, J.C. Jackson, Austin Johnson. They try and improve this team. There's so much talent. They have a really damn good quarterback on that rookie contract,

and Brandon Staley, a coach that everyone likes. Now, why I bring up this hot seat stuff, which a lot of people might call me crazy. But national media, the conversation around Brand Staley, there's some people last year that said they would have fired Brandon Staley last year for the aggressiveness on 4th Downs and some of the decisions he's made. analytical guys like me are very much interested in what Brandon Staley's doing. I think it's exactly the type of aggressive mentality head coaches in today's NFL need,

but I would not be surprised if this Charter team doesn't make the playoffs next year, there will be more conversations on Brandon Staley because he is causing a stir with how aggressive he wants to be on fourth down. Now, he has the support of his players. Herbert and Keenan Allen multiple times said put the ball on our hands. We always want to go forward on fourth down. We believe in Staley. But there could be outside pressure enough that if they don't make the playoffs last year next

year, I think this daily conversation could come up wrongfully, in my opinion, because I do think he's making the good decisions on fourth down. What's your reaction to that, right? Do you think that Brand Staley, if he doesn't make the playoffs next year, could be on his way out of Los Angeles? Yeah, because you don't put this kind of talent on the field. I'm glad you mentioned the J.C. Jackson portion. I mean, when you talk about Derwin James and J.C. Jackson being in the same backfield, you're talking about two of the elite playmakers back there. And, of course, you got Bosa and Matt getting pressure. You're the defensive guy. You already got the offensive. Stud and Justin Herbert, Keenan Allen is one of the best in the game.

Austin Eckler is one of the more productive running backs when healthy in all of football. So at some point, it's got to be you, right? Like when you're looking around, like, all right, where are the flaws here? I don't think that they're consistently going to be out talented in any portion or any phase of NFL football barring some kind of ridiculous catastrophe injury-wise, right? So if they don't have a rash of five or six injuries in the first few weeks of the season and they come out to gates two and two or one and three. Yeah, Brandon Staley definitely would be on the hot seat.

I mean, this is a league where you're going to have to spend money at that position if you got one. Sometimes when you don't have one, right, when you don't have a quarterback and you're like, all right, we got to pay Andy Dalton with the Cincinnati Bengals or we got to pay Matt Schaub, like those kind of hate to throw strays at the shop and Dalton family on this podcast to start the season. But yeah, when you have to pay guys and you know you have to pay them, you're going to start to look around. It's kind of like the Russell Wilson blueprint when the Legion of Boom had to get disbanded. It's okay, we got to pay that position. Guys that have helped that position flourish, whether it be defensively or offensively,

going to have to go elsewhere. So if you're the Chargers and you're a Chargers fan and you know that you only got a little bit more time before these big ticket items, these big-name guys, whether it be defensively or offensively, have to go elsewhere because of restructuring of money and having to pay that dude. Because we see the prices now. You know what happens when you are a top-tier quarterback. Hell, you know what happens when you're a mid-level quarterback

and the guaranteed money that you could probably get out here. So Justin Herbert, his ascension is going to determine the pressure levels on Brandon Staley. And that's just the name of the game and a results-oriented business such as the NFL. So I think the charges, I think they're on the cusp though. I didn't know on cusp, but that might be the determining factor the guy wearing the headset. I want it on the record too. And I bring it up knowing that I have full faith in now what his second season as a head coach, that Brandon Staley is that guy.

I think he is going to be a long-time coach. I do think he's going to be a long-time coach in the NFL. However, we can't understate outside pressures when you are making like a zig to where everyone is zagging in terms of going forward on fourth down really aggressively. You can't underrate outside pressures, maybe pushing him out if they missed the postseason. Now, I expect them to make the playoffs this upcoming year. I expect them to win in week one.

One of my favorite bets in week one on Fandle, you get the Chargers minus three and a half against the Las Vegas Raiders at home. I think that could be a blowout. I think the Chargers could go out, really make a statement with the more talented football team on both sides of the ball and really win against a Las Vegas Raers team that a lot of people have high expectations for with Adams and Carr and all those things. I think the Chargers are going to be really, really good. But I know that if Staley somehow, regardless of it's, you know, Sands injuries, right, if Herbert gets her, everything kind of goes out the window. But if he has a healthy Chargers team, Herbert included in week 18 and they are not resting players for the playoffs, I think people will be concerned. People will be concerned because it's just too good of a football team, too talented of a football team to be on the outside looking in in deep January.

Yeah, Sean Payton sitting in the wings like, all right, my one year. My one year vacation is over. It's time for me to jump down with another phenomenal maybe Hall of Fame type talent and Justin Herbert going forward. All right. So seven through 11, give us the teams because I can't wait to get to 12 with you. This is the team that I think will be the most disappointing team in the NFL this year in terms of where their expectations are. So give us 7 through 11 so we can get to upsetting some people in the great old state of Texas. Absolutely.

So after the Chargers, I have the Cincinnati Bengals at 7, which I think is high for some people looking at the Bengals. But I just can't look at their roster and see significant flaw. Like they really improved the offensive line. It's arguably the best receiving core in the NFL. They have a quarterback that with Herber is pushing for top five in the NFL. I think, bro, is that good. At 8, Baltimore Raven, same division. at nine, and honestly, I like this so much more after Jimmy Garoppolo signed that highest pay backup

contract with the Niners because it really does add better long-term futures if Lance does play well. If Jimmy G wasn't on this team and Brock Purdy was Trey Lance's backup, I think you drop the Niners a bit because you don't know if Lance is going to be good. At 10, I have the Denver Broncos, which they're a hard team to rank right now. So much newness in Denver with Nathaniel Hackett the first year head coach, Russell Wilson coming over as the new quarterback, Tim Patrick, the wide receiver already tearing his ACL defensively losing Vic Fangio. So many question marks with Denver, but so many high expectations. And then at 11, Minnesota Vikings, they're minus 110 to make the playoffs and people have high expectations for them to compete with Green Bay in the NFC North.

But I think they ultimately finished second in that division going to be a wildcar team this upcoming year. And let's get to 12, like you said. Yes, sir. The Dallas Cowboys, Austin Gale, you have the floor. Let Dallas Cowboys fans know how you feel about them because it ain't going to get no better when I take the mic. This was a very difficult team to rank, right? Because the market is really high on the Dallas Cowboys, minus 225 to make the playoffs this upcoming season. If you bet opposite of that, I think you're looking at plus 170.

And I rank them right up against at 13, their division rival, the Philadelphia Eagles, who I've talked about multiple times this offseason being a team that the public is dumping money on. The Philadelphia Eagles, the day after the 2022 NFL draft, were plus 275, essentially three. to one to win the NFC East. Now they're plus 150, tied with the Dallas Cowboys. A lot of that money coming after, you know, you see Tyrone Smith get hurt. And I do think that this Dallas Cowboys team, when the cliche is in the offseason,

every team gets better, I think one of the few teams that got worse, right? You lose Tyrone Smith to an injury. You lose Randy Gregory to the Denver Broncos. You trade away Amari Cooper. You lose Cedric Wilson in free agency. You lose Laos Collins. You have to cut him due to, you know, cap constraints. This Dallas Cowboys team got worse.

Do they have talented players? Yes, are they ranked ahead of the Eagles because they have the better quarterback? Absolutely. That's why Dak Prescott should be competing for the playoffs, even with a talent, you know, a team that lost a lot of talent in soft season. Dak Prescott and Seedy Lamb have to be sensational offensively for this, you know, Dallas Cowboys seem to meet expectations, not even just exceed expectations. And why I have them right up against Philadelphia Eagles is because everything that Dallas

doesn't have outside of Dak Prescott, Philly does. And AJ Brown, Devante Smith, a really talented, healthy offensive line and Dief. defensively, guys that are adding talent. So I think that's secondary with Darius Slay. They just recently traded for Chauncey Gardner Johnson. Philadelphia is doing all the right things on the sideline with Nick Seriani and in the front office with Howie Roseman. The Eagles are on their way to being an NFC East contender.

Very well could win it this year. Dak Prescott, I think, and Cidney Lamb, that pairing is really going to determine what happens with the Cowboys because it's a very good chance. If they do not live up to expectations that they fall down this ranking, because they don't have talent defensively, because they lost Rainier Gregory, because they lost Cooper and Wilson and don't have Tyron Smith from the start of the season,

you could see this Cowboys team fall and you can see this Eagles team fly. All right, A.G., I am also one of the guys who are pounding the Philadelphia Eagles because Nick Siriani, I think, proved something to me in terms of not only adaptability, but the young vibe that I think this kind of team needs. A.J. Brown running division last year with the Tennessee Titans,

I think he's going to win a division again this year. The Dallas Cowboys thing, we kind of saw this coming, though, didn't we? Like, when Dak Prescott got his money, similar to the Justin Herbert conference, When you get that money, all of the onus is going to be on you. It's on your shoulders. The offense is going to be on you.

Ezekiel Elliott, obviously, isn't the Ezekiel Elliott of three, four years ago? Still a quality back. But now C.D. Lamb, more pressure on him. You mentioned the loss of Wilson. There's so many things going on. And then on top of it, I've never known a Dallas Cowboys team to overachieve when their coach is in hot water. And Mike McCarthy, not just from last season, but what's happened this preseason with

all the penalties, and then you go back and look at the undisciplined nature with. They've played last year. I think they were second in the league in personal files. I think they were first in the league in holding penalties last year. You lose Tyron Smith. I mean, we're talking about digging up. Jason Peters. Shout out to him because he was here in Chicago. He played decent and enough, but he's 42, 43 years old. I just don't know if this Dallas thing is not only sustainable over the course of the season. They may have an explosive offense. Don't get me wrong, but like you mentioned, defensively, are they going to be able to stop people? And also the Trayvon Diggs thing,

Trayvon Diggs, you know, the picks, they're all cool, but we don't really talk a lot about the gambols that are taken and how he gets beat quite often. I mean, if you're looking at that secondary right now, I just don't know if Micah Parsons, and I think he's an outstanding player, he could be defensive player of the year this year. I don't know if he is enough in terms of, okay,

if we can isolate him, if we can try to figure out neutralize him, or always have our eyes on him as an offense. We can exploit anything going into a Dallas Cowboys game. So I'm not sold on this Dallas Cowboys team being anything more like high side. High side, I think they're a 10-win team. Low side, I think they might be an eight-win team, especially because of defensive inadequacies.

I do think that it's an interesting bet to bet them not to make the playoffs, right? Or go under eight and a half, go under nine-and-half wins. Because the wrong side of variance here, say, Dak, Prescott, even misses four games. This is a team that's going to struggle. really, really struggle. The reason I am so afraid to publicly fade the Dallas Cowboys is one, everyone's fading them. Everyone has the same narrative. Everyone's saying they lost all these players and, oh, I don't know. Mike McCarthy could be on his way out. Trayvon Diggs allowed more yards than any quarterback in the NFL. It's so public that it scares me, right? When everyone's on it,

should I be on it? And then the other reason, and I think this is the biggest reason too, and I tried to hit it hard when I first talked about this pairing of Cowboys at 12, Eagles at 13, is Dak Prescott's really freaking good. Like, don't forget. Don't forget that Dak Prescott is a top 10, top 12 quarterback in the NFL, miles ahead of where Jalen Hertz is as a processor, miles ahead of where Jalen Hertz is as a, from an accuracy standpoint. And that in a league where so much of the value, like the winning value, the wins above replacement is focused or, you know, really put behind the quarterback position, you have to rank that highly. I don't care who's around Dack Prescott when I know he had to have Dack Prescott versus where Jalen Hertz has a lot

of support around him, really good players on the offensive side and even side of the ball, still nowhere near light years behind Dak Prescott right now at the quarterback position. So they're at 12 and 13 right now. Dallas will fall if those public narratives do come to fruition and the Eagles will rise if Jaylen Hertz even isn't great. If Jaylen Hertz is good next year, a guy that's improved every year of his career,

even dating back to college, if he's just good next year, doesn't regress, this Eagles team's going to playoffs. And they could very well win the NFC East. Yeah, I think they're going to win the NFC East because I think Jayland Hertz is going to take the necessary steps and also take care of the ball a little bit better. And, you know, like you mentioned, from Alabama to Oklahoma, even in high school, Jalen Hertz has been putting some adverse situations, whether it be the competition in the room with them or the competition on the field and the SEC in the Big 12.

I think he's come up aces along the way. I think I think there's just another step. Now, is he going to be some, you know, next level, phenomenal, like 40 touchdowns, eight interceptions quarterback? I don't think he'll ever get the opportunity to nor do I think that's him. But if you're asking him to hit the receivers as accurately as he possibly can, check down, you know, you talk about their receiving core with A.J. Brown, I'm looking at some of their other offensive weapons. I think they're complimentary enough. I think they can play complimentary enough football, especially on the defensive side and the kicking game so that the Eagles can get themselves an 11-win season, 12-win season out of there. But the NFC, you already know, nobody goes back to back. Nobody goes back to back in the NFCEs. So it's interesting. how this thing's going to play out. I think the Dallas Cowboys and Dallas Cowboys fans might be in for a tumultuous season at best. And we haven't even talked about the injury side of things, which everybody's healthy in week one and it goes down from there. All right.

Speaking of AJ Brown, he goes from the Tennessee Titans to the Philadelphia of the Eagles. You got an interesting pairing at 15 and 16. Got Tennessee and Indianapolis. Derek Henry, restructured his deal. He's taken a pounding over the last three or four years, all the carries in the world, an MVP trophy to boot. Mike Vray well plays a certain style of football without A.J. Brown and with what Derek Henry is now, do you think Ryan Tannanhill can kind of make this Tennessee Titans thing come full circle or have we seen them peek out in last year? It's really tough, right? Because I think the Tennessee Titans, and I have them here at 15,

Colts at 16, behind the Arizona Cardinals who split that pairing of Cowboys and Eagles at 13. But Tennessee Titans at 15, Colts at 16. Colts are the favorite to win the ASC South. People really like the Matt Ryan upgrade. They feel like they have the better roster. And when you look at the Tennessee Titans, even though they were the number one seed in the AFC last year, with the reigning coach of the year and Mike Brable, there is a lot of public fade on the Tennessee Titans.

A lot of that because they lost A.J. Brown. You lose A.J. Brown. You replace them essentially with their first round pick out of Arkansas and Traylon Burks, who's now not even in line to start week one. It's going to be Nick Westbrook Kekina, the rookie Kyle Phillips out of Y CLA in the slot. And then Robert Woods, the veteran they traded for from Los Angeles, a trans trans, a completely revamped receiving corps from the Julio Jones,

AJ Brown pairing that we had last year. And then Derek Henry, who did play in that playoff game last year, but was held to just 3.1 yards for carry in a game where Ryan Tannenhill threw three touchdowns in that postseason game after the by the divisional round against the bangle. So the Titans are getting a lot of public fade. And I'm with it in a lot of ways. I think their offense really is predicated on Derek Henry, which in a league where throwing the football and having the better quarterback often wins deep in the postseason.

I don't love that isolation of wins above replacement in terms of really having Derek Henry be the guy. And if you ask him in an office. that doesn't have AJ Brown that is looking for a rookie receiver in Phillips or Brooks to really step up. If you ask him to do 300, 330 touches again, I worry about that workload. We've seen time and time again with these backs that hit the peak of their careers in that 23 to 26 range from an age perspective and then fall off after the touches really start to wear down the tread on those tires. So the Tennessee Titans, they're just a hard team to back right now. I don't see them

as a deep postseason contender. Could they win the AFC South? Absolutely. They're coming off the number one seeing the AFC. They have a really good coaching staff. I think a defense that even after losing Harold Landry, I'm not sure if you saw the news, Harold Landry out for the season with the torn ACL, even after losing him, still feel that that defense is really well coached under Vrabble and still have some consistency along the offensive line, Tana Hill, Henry, et cetera. I just don't see them as a deep postseason team, regardless of what they win, the AFC South. And with the Colts right behind them, just to get onto the Colts, I think it's an upgrade. I think Carson Wentz is a roller coaster. Every single week, it's like, oh my gosh, the highs are great. Even with

in games. Quarter one could be great for course and Wednesday. Quarter two could be an absolute disaster. Matt Ryan is so much less of a roller coaster in games in week to week. But are the hot, is the high end enough for the Colts to also be considered a deep postseason contender? I just don't think so. And I talked to you about them, I think a week ago where I said they have talent. And that's why a lot of people back the Colts. Quint Nelson, Shaq Leonard, you know, Matt Ryan in upgrade. They like Michael Pittman Jr. Stefan Gilmore there at Corner. I just, and DeForest Buckner on the inside. I just feel that they don't have enough talent at these high value positions. They don't have enough talent at the quarterback position or at receiver,

a lot of youth there, or at cornerback to really be considered this deep postseason contender. I think they're in the dangerously mid territory, the Titans and Cults, and I just don't see us backing them in January or February this year. The thing that you never want to vibe in is dangerously mid. You know what I mean? If you're going to go, go ahead and spend the extra 10 bucks, but that's another, that's another story for another time. All right, let's go from the AFC South to the AFC East. Buffalo Bills, I believe, and as you just mentioned, you got them number one in your rankings. I believe the Buffalo Bills will be representing the AFC and the Super Bowl this year.

And then it's the rest of the AFC East, right? You got the Jets. We'll talk about the Jets in a little bit here. But the Miami Dolphins, if there is a video game team out there that people can't wait to play Madden with this year, it is the Miami Dolphins. You got Tehran Armstead over there, left tackle. You got Tyreek Hill on the other side of Jalen Wado. And of course, you've got Tuatong of Yov.

I. Lowe and Mike McDaniel. The quarterback coach, not just inexperienced, but pressure cooker that these two will be thrown in. We'll see very early on what this Miami Dolphins team is made of. It feels like not only the ownership, but the rest of the NFL is like, okay, we gave you everything you need. Now what to us? So what do you feel about this Miami Dolphin squad going into this year? So this is a very difficult team to rank as well because I think initially in the offseason, I want to fade the Miami Dolphins. A lot of that being because first year head coach and Tuotung Vailoa still hasn't played consistently well. I'm starting to get on the bandwagon, though.

Right now on Fandle, they're plus 142 to make the playoffs, I think plus 450 to win the division with the Buffalo Bills, the number one team on my rankings, being the obvious favorite to win the AFC East next year. With the Miami Dolphins, I wanted to play a game. I wanted to play a game. Let's remove quarterback from the conversation. Josh Allen's arguably the best quarterback in the NFL,

Tuotung Waila is unproven. Expecting improvement under Mike McDaniel, but we'll see. We'll see. The Buffalo Bills, in addition to Josh Allen, are coveted as the team that has one of the deepest and most talented rosters in the NFL. How far off are the Miami Dolphins from that?

So I'm going to go position group by position group. And I'm going to have you choose dolphins or bills. Let's start with the receiving corps. And essentially, let's start with the weapons. So the bills, Stefan Diggs, Gabe Davis, Isaiah McKenzie, and then the compliments of Devin Singletary, Zach Moss, James Cook, Dawson Knox at tight end. For Miami, Jalen Waddle, Tyree Kill, Cedric Wilson,

Chase Edmonds, Rahim Moster, they're running back, and then Mike Gisicki, who is struggling to find a role in this offense, then you have Durham Smyth that's gaining some opportunities there too.

Which of those weapons are you taking? I think I might be going dolphins. There you go. I agree. I agree. Tyree Kill and Jill and Waddle are two of those

electric receivers in the NFL. I take Tyree Killover Stefan Diggs and that essentially ends the conversation for me. Tyree kill over Stefan Diggs ends that conversation. Offensive line.

Toronto Armstead, Liam Eichenberg, Connor Williams, Robert Hunt, Austin Jackson, some talent, Dionne Dawkins, Roger Saffold, Mitch Morris, Ryan Betts, David Quistberry. Who are you taking there? Ah, you doing this to me.

I think I might be going to lean into the words of the dolphins. There you go, dolphins. So defensively, I think it's where it gets harder, right? Defensively, it gets harder because you have to factor in Sean McDermott, which I think is one of the best defense coaches in the NFL. You go deep, you know, looking at this front seven, Greg Rousseau, Ed, Edelso, Ed, Edelver, Dequan Jones, Bond Miller, Matt Milano, Tremaine, that's Buffalo.

That's rock solid. Yeah, the dolphins don't even hold a candle to that. Jalen Phillips might be their best front seven player. They added Melvin Ingram, but still not even touching the front seven. But then you look at the secondary. Dane Jackson is going to start an outside quarterback for this team. And then you have on the opposite side of rookie and Kyra Elam. The safeties are fantastic in Jordan Poir and Micaheim.

And in the slot, I really do like to Ron Johnson. But Trinavius White's on the pup, going to miss the first four games in the season, maybe more beyond that. Going to Miami, you have Xavier Howard, Brandon Jones, Javan Halland, who is a fantastic second year of safety. Ed Morgan, Noah McBonagney, outside corner, Nick Needham. With White Out, I think it's a push, right? Are you even, it's hard to lean neither.

way. So what you're pretty much doing is putting a sizable target on Tuatanga Vailoa's back, because this is the only, this is the only difference apparently in the roster between the Buffalo Bills outside of the front seven and Miami Dolphins. So this is all a Tuatanga Vailoa conversation then. Exactly. So if Tuotonga Bayloa is terrible next year, which would be part for the course from what we've seen so far in his career, it's not even going to be close. Miami Dolphins might make the playoffs, but they're not going to be a deep postseason contender. It's all moot. But we can't, I don't think overstayed how close these rosters are. Like the Buffalo Bills are coveted as this team that's the best in the NFL for more than just Josh Allen, right? The coaching staff, I think there's an edge there as well. Sean McDermott is one of the best coaches in the NFL. But the roster compared to the Miami Dolphins, I don't think is that much better. So much that right now, 17th on my list, I think of any team right now that could fly up

the highest or fly up the furthest, I think it might be Miami. If Tua is good in this offense, which we saw in the preseason, take it with a grand assault, in the preseason with Mike McDaniel, if Tula is even a top 16 QB, top 18 QB next year. With this roster, I think they can be a deep posey's and contender. Don't be surprised if they fly up this list. All right. Speaking of decent rosters and trying to figure out what they really are, the Las Vegas Raiders added, if not the best receiver in all of football, one of the best in Devante Adams. Derek Carr, of course, is happy to see his guy getting ready to throw to him. There's a hundred times and a hundred

renfell is going to get 100 balls as well. The running back situation is a little shaky, but of course you've got a new regime, you got a new front office, you got a new head coach. Why aren't the Las Vegas Raiders higher up on your rankings? I worry about the Las Vegas Raiders, offensive line, and they're secondary. It's that simple, right? It's that simple. And I think Josh McDaniels and Ziegler, Dave Ziegler, the new GM, have come over and said, we don't care where you were drafted.

We don't care what you've done for this team in prior years. We are putting the best players on the football field. They essentially trade away. They're starting outside quarterback over the last few years and Trayvon Mullen, a conditional six-round pick. They outright cut Alex Leatherwood, their first round pick from 2021, and they say, we don't care what happened under the previous regime. We're starting the best players. And the best players on the team along the offensive line and in the secondary are absolutely worrisome. Ben Solac, an analyst here, Athen Ringer, I think, tweeted out,

can you even name the Raiders starting offensive line without Googling it? I can. Colton Miller, remember, big Raiders fan here. I grew up watching the Raiders. 10-year season ticket holder with my dad. I was there for Jamarcus Russell's first pass. I've seen the low. of this team. This team is not this team is not where it once was. But still, along this offensive line, Colt Miller, arguably a top 14, top 12 player at the offensive tackle position.

After that, John Simpson, unproven, former fourth round pick. Andre James, unproven at center, undrafted player. Lester Cotton Sr., honestly might be a made-up player. No, but Lester Cotton Sr. has not played in creative player history. Very few, if zero, regular season, snaps, and then at right tackle, because Alex Sutherwood has gone,

Germain Illuminar at right tackle. That's worrisome. That offensive line is one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL, even with Colton Miller there. And then in the secondary, quarterbacks without Trayvon Mullen are going to be Nate Hobbs, Rock Yassine, and Amic-Robinson. And in the safety position, Jonathan Abram and the second-year player out of TCU, Trayvon, Merrick. I worry about those two things. They have good players in Derek Carr, Chandler Jones, Max Crosby, Devante Adams, Hunter Renfro,

and Waller, and then obviously Colton Miller at left tackle. But everything else after that is not just an open competition, but objectively bad. Linebackers are bad. The offensive line is bad. The secondary is bad. And that is just too many bad things for a team that people have high expectations for, for a team led by a quarterback that should be top 12, top 14 at his position. I just think there are too many flaws for the Raiders to be considered a deep postseason contender.

And I didn't even bring up that they're probably the worst team in their own division, right? You have the Chiefs, the Charters, the Broncos, and then the Raiders. Plus 650 to win their own division. I think that you should be betting under eight and a half wins. I think you should not be betting them to make the playoffs. It's just the road is too tough ahead. And Ziegler and McDaniels know it. They are looking at this team in more of a rebuild mode than they are looking at deep postseason contender mode as evidenced by cutting some of these players that are talented that do want to develop and have standard for this team in the past.

All right. Let's get to the bottom of the league and go to the great state of New York where you got the Giants and the Jets. Quarterback situations are not murky, but not good, right? Zach Wilson out with the bone bruise he might. There's rumors that he might be ready. but I will see. And even if he is ready, there's a whole bunch of young talent

on the Jets roster, whereas the Giants are in a weird situation where you got yourself a new head coach, you got yourself a new offensive philosophy, you might have a quarterback on the outs coming up here soon with Daniel Jones in his final year, maybe as a starter in the league. Which situation do you think is more fruitful going forward?

Because you got 27 the Giants and you got the Jets at 28. So New York fans are trying to figure out who's going to win this race that's going to nails pace in terms of getting back to relevancy in the state of New York. New York is in a bad place, right? The teams that play in MetLife are rightfully doubted this upcoming season. And I really wanted to have this conversation because I don't know which team has a better situation, not just for this upcoming season, but even for the next three years, right? Do you like Zach Wilson's prospect? Do you like Robert Salon? Do you like the defense, you know, the pieces that they've added

in Amad Garner, most recently in the first round. They have Garrett Wilson, the receiver out of Ohio state. Like, they've added talent. Germaine Johnson, another player that they really like. and then you look at New York, the other New York team, the Giants, Daniel Jones is not going to be the quarterback of this football team after this year. They've already declined his fifth year option. They've brought in a new head coach in Brian Dable, and they brought in a new GM and Joe Shane to really turn this team around. Not this year, but over the next three years.

And originally going into this, I think I like the Jets more, right? Oh, I like Zach Wilson coming out of BYU. I think Robert Saul is going to be one of the better coaches in the NFL, and they've added pieces on offense and on defense. The Giants, though, I think, are closer to blowing this thing up, which I think is what both teams probably need to do. sooner rather than later because you can move on from Daniel Jones after this year. And I really like the talent that they've added most recently in the draft

in Kavon, Thibodot and Neh, those start to hit. And you really start to have this team with a young, strong core. They're both going to be bad next year. They're both probably going to be scratching for seven, six wins. But I think the giant situation might be better. Am I wrong to look at it that way? I think Jess fans would hate that. I think Giants fans might hate it too.

But I just can't pick a team. I don't know which team is better. They're both really bad. Yeah. I just know the, the Bears are worse than both those teams, so I can't really talk too much shit about the Giants and the Jets. I do know this, though. I do know this. The Jets situation, as you mentioned, you've got sauce garden, you got Garrett Wilson, you got Elijah Moore. There's seemingly, you know, if you want to

watch a young offensive line play, of course Giants fans are watching Evan Neal, how he, how he performs and Kay Vaughan-Tibato on the other side of the line. But seemingly the Jets have more, I should say, the interesting pieces, you know, at positions that you can, you can. easily dictate, all right, these guys can play, these guys can't play. I'm looking forward to seeing whatever that Jets situation is going to be. And as you mentioned, Robert Sahlig, he's in a bad situation where your defense can't be what it is if you're the defense's minded dude. And that's going to continue, that's going to be the common refrain until they turn it around.

One more point there too is the Jets defense last year did not have a lot of talent. They lost Carl Lawson to a season-long injury before the season even started and that made things worse. Still, they make 30-second, an EPA per play allowed. 32nd in total points allowed, 30 second and total yards allowed. They can't be the worst. Robert Solisdefits can't be the worst in the NFL if this team's going to be good. And Zach Wilson, right, 34th in EPA, CPOE composite, courtesy of RBDSM.

com. Like, he was the worst quarterback in the NFL last year. You can't be the worst if you're going to turn things around. And I think the reason I don't like the jet situation, I think this is honestly, after talking this through, this is why I don't like the jet situation as much because they have higher expectations. You know, the Giants fans in New York are saying, I don't really care as long. as Daniel Jones sucks.

Like, we just hope he sucks so bad that we can take a CJ Stroud or Bryce Young at the top the draft. Meanwhile, Jets fans aren't saying that. Jets fans are like praying that Zach Wilson starts week one, praying that he can stay healthy, praying that, you know, Robert Saul's defense gets better. And I just think higher expectations for the Jets team that is in the same tier in terms of how much talent they have on that roster. I worry about high expectations leading to pressure and pressure unwarranted to a point where

they start to make some bad short-term decisions. And lastly, a team that we've been used to. seeing not just in the top of the rankings, but at least being relevant, the Seattle Seahawks. You got them 30th on your power rankings. I got a chance to watch Seattle Seahawks in preseason because they played up against my Chicago Bears. And boy, was that a big bag of ass all over the field? It was terrible to watch.

I can't imagine watching 17 games this team going forward this season. This is one of those, they are now on the clock teams as well. You just mentioned CJ Stroud. You just mentioned Bryce Young. You just mentioned all the quarterbacks that might be available in the draft this year. what are Seahawks fans going to be able to look forward to? Because all I heard this entire offseason was, you know, D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett are finally going to be able to take over this locker room from Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner. We've had too much say over the last few years.

Now that you've got that say, is there enough talent on the field for Pete Carroll to kind of keep this thing going? Or is this the Swan Song for the Old Man? So my first note in preparing for this podcast, and I was right out some notes, I said, I think I might have Seattle too low. Like, I'm worried. I'm worried. I just, I read, I read. Steve Ruiz's quarterback rankings, who I know is Jenna joined the show here in a few minutes and seeing his analysis of Gino Smith and he hasn't ranked 22nd in the NFL among quarterbacks ahead of Tua, which I want to talk about. We have to talk about it. Gino Smith, a juryman in the NFL, a consistent backup being ranked to a tongue of my law, little scary for Dolphins fans.

But they have Gino Smith, who some people are seeing as this top 20, fringe top 20 quarterback, still have Tyler Lockett, still have D.K. Metcalf. I know a lot of high expectations for Rashad Penny. And does that make them better than the Jets and Giants? Right. I think having them behind the Jess and Giants was me being kind of an asshole because I don't like Gino Smith and I don't like Drew Locke and I think the offensive line is young and untalented. I think the defensive line is young and untalented and that so much to me

hasn't ranked behind but I don't know. I think of any team I can get proven wrong on I think it is the Seattle Seahawks because this still is a team that has talent at valuable positions. I don't love where their secondary is but they still have some talented football players there. Offensive line, Ape Lucas, the rookie third round pick out of Washington

State and then the rookie first round pick out of Mississippi State Charles Cross could both start and could both look really good in the preseason. So Seattle, I'm scared of this ranking because I know Ruiz is higher on Gino Smith and I think he could outperform my expectations. So expect this team to maybe prove me very wrong and I should not have them in this bottom three conversation

with the Bears at 31 and the Texans at 32. I think you're not going to be proved wrong. I think the NFL is going to prove you a very heady man over the next 19 weeks and so, including the biweek. I think the Seattle Seahawks are going to be in that three or four win range. And speaking of Stephen Ruiz, the great Stephen Ruiz.

We bring him in now to the Ringer NFL show. This man is going to be catching hell for the entire season, ladies and gentlemen, because we will be having him on and he will be updating us on the quarterback rankings. This is not only a list show. This is a ranking show. And my man, A.G, isn't the only one supplying some of these rankings for you guys to digest. Stephen Ruiz now joins us. You've got the Ringer's 2022 QB rankings.

I want to start right at the top, Stephen, because you've got two quarterbacks there. and Aaron Rogers and Patrick Mahomes, who people wouldn't argue or quibble with them being flip-flop one or two, but both players have lost key assets on their offensive side of the football. Obviously, Tyree Kill being one and Devonty Adams being another. So why did Aaron Rogers edge out Patrick Mahomes in your rankings, I should say? I think that, and first of all, this wasn't even scheduled. This wasn't even scheduled.

I just showed up when I started to hear the Gino Smith hate. It's like a batman stigma. You just say it like, the Undertaker, he's like, wait a minute, I got to start recording. Somebody's shit and on, you know, somewhere. I got to find it. But no, I picked Rogers ahead of Mahomes because I think, like, I think the NFL is, like, really cool right now because you look at the top quarterbacks and all of them succeed in their own very unique ways. Like, the way Josh Allen succeeds at playing quarterback is totally different from the way Tom Brady succeeds. But I think Aaron Rogers, like, kind of steals a little bit from everyone, right?

Like, he can do the Mahomes, sidearm, trick shot, throws. could do the no look stuff. He's as accurate as any quarterback I've ever seen. He does like the Tom Brady incomplete command of the offense thing before the snap. He can create out of structure. He can stay in the pocket and read a defense, go through his progressions. Like, he does everything. And until he stops being the most accurate quarterback and the smartest quarterback in the

league, besides Tom Brady, I'm going to keep him at the top of this list because I don't think he puts any constraints on a play caller. Like you can do anything you want with Aaron Rogers. And he's going to do it at an elite level. Now, I think Mahomes is like right there. with them in that regard. And I'm really picking nits with these two at the top. But I'll say, I'll say that Mahomes doesn't have that complete control command of the offense before the snap. I think he can get fooled a little easier than Rogers can. I don't know if he's as patient.

We kind of saw that last year, especially against the Bengals in the second half when he kind of lost his mind when the Bengals started dropping eight. But this is going to be a close race between the top three. I would really put the top three in their own tier. I think Herbert's got a chance to pass both of them, to be honest. All right. Before, for AG gets his pause on. Let me list these top 10, okay? You got Aaron Rogers at 1. You got Patrick Mahomes at 2, by the way. All of this stuff is right there for you on the ringer.com, the QB rankings right

there on the front page, as they should be. You got Justin Herbert at 3, Tom Brady at 4, Josh Allen at 5. You got Russell Wilson, the new look Denver Broncos offense led by Russell Wilson at 6. Dak Prescott at 7, Lamar Jackson at 8, Joe Burrow at 9, and Kyler Murray at 10. And AG, I know you want to get down in the mud on the Gino Smith stuff, but anything in the top 10 there that you're interested in Stephen having an explanation for? I'm definitely surprised that Matthew Stafford isn't in the top 10. I know before you get into kind of like the specific rankings of Stafford over Murray or Stafford over Burrow, this is such a sensational piece of content that I know you're going to be updating weekly in season. QB rankings.org the ringer.com.

It's a fantastic project with really good design. You got noseball hashtags. You got little emoticons for it. Got that dog in him. Walk me through the, you know, the grading process for this, right? I know it's a lot of tape. I know it's a lot of study. But you have QB grades aside to these players.

You have accuracy grades, decision making. What all goes into this process? What's going to be going into the process week after week? Because I think this is just such an in-depth look at the best quarterbacks in the NFL, which is the most important position, maybe in all the sports, in terms of polarized wins above replacement. Talk about, you know, this methodology and what you're going to be doing. What went into this initial ranking? and then what's going to go into this week after week?

Yeah, the initial rankings was the result of just offseason grinding, like all offseason. I watched at least four games of each quarterback, and I tried to split it up between like good games, bad games, to average games, and then try to get one from like each phase of the season. So like the first month, the second month, the third month, the fourth month, just to get like a more complete picture of how they evolved over the course of the season. And it is based on last year.

I try to stay away from projections as much as I could. Like a guy like Marriota who hasn't played and you only have like one, that one game against the charges a couple years ago, you kind of have to project it out. So that's why, like, a lot of the rookies, besides Trevor Lawrence, who I think was a lot better than the stats, say,

are lower on the list. I think a lot of them are going to jump. Like, Trey Lance, I think has a really good chance of jumping. But, yeah, that's what it was based on. And, like,

just to explain some of the attributes, like, creativity was a tough one to, like, name because there's so many ways to go about it. It wasn't just, like, mobility and scrambling. Because I think there are mobile quarterbacks that don't really know how to use it well.

And they run into sacks. They don't make plays outside of the pocket, really. But it's also like Tom Brady getting to the fifth man in this progression. I think that counts as creativity because you're going above and beyond what the offense expects, really. So it was really just figuring out how to weight those attributes. And for me, like the ability to throw matters the most when you're a quarterback. You have to be able to make throws. I don't care if you can find open receivers.

If you're not making the throws, whether it's accuracy or arm talent, like you can't get the ball there, then it doesn't matter. So that was like heavily weighted for me. And then I thought decision making was next. Obviously you have to make the right decision. You have to throw to the right person, not throw to the other team. And those are like the three biggest factors and all the other stuff is kind of just like inciliary. And I think that's why Matthew Stafford is lower than you might expect because I do think like

his decisions are kind of inconsistent. Like every now and then you'll see like a boneheaded play, a bad sack, a throw right to a defender right to a linebacker. Sometimes it gets punished. Sometimes it doesn't. I think like during that slow stretch for the Rams in the middle of the year when they started losing games, that's when you started to show up. He threw a couple pick six. He threw like five pick sixes in like a week three, like a three week span. But like the talent and the creativity makes up for a lot of it. But when you're talking about the top 10, these guys are consistently good. And I'm of the opinion that there are probably like 15 top 10 quarterbacks right now. And I won't make an argument for like putting him at eighth.

for me it's like there's tier one which is those top three quarterbacks we named earlier there's tier two which is like Brady Allen Russ and then after that interchangeable for me so like I would I would not argue against Stafford being seventh even you mentioned trade lances being one of those guys as you can see risers uh do you have any other risers and do you have any other guys that you're on the lookout to that may not be where they are right now they may drop a little bit because of circumstances because of you know situations or not having the the right tools or coaching changes? Like, who are the rises and falls that you could see happening maybe midseason or by the

end of the season? The ranking I'm most worried about is probably Justin Fields because I have been like a big fan of him as a prospect. I was a big fan of him coming out. But it's like I went back and watched his film from last year and there was just too much inconsistency. It was like every 10 plays there would be an amazing throw, an amazing playing. You're like, damn, this is why you buy in.

But then those other nine plays, it was just like the wrong decision. Like throwing a checkdown when a guy was open downfield or forcing a throw when the checkdown was open. And it's just consistent. And until I see a more consistent decision-making process, I think he's going to be at the bottom of the list. But what if he flips the switch? If he flips the switch, all the talent in the world's there. I'm worried about the supporting cast, obviously. But I think he could like jump into the top 20 if he does improve in those areas.

Falling, I'd say Russ. I put the wash watch on him. I still think he's physically talented compared to other top quarterbacks, but compared to what he was like even three years ago, he's not scrambling the same way he used to be used to. And that was such a big part of his game. He thrives in chaos, which is what makes him so like unique and talented.

But if that goes, it's kind of hard to see Russ, the pocket passer staying in the top 10 just because he's not comfortable in the pocket. It comes back to height. Like height matters for quarterbacks. That's why these guys get drafted higher. Russ has problems seeing over the middle of the field. And if he can't get outside the pocket and kind of widen that view,

I think he's going to have problems. So it really comes down to whether he's that scrambler he was like three years ago or whether he's the same guy he was last year. And I think that's a big difference. I was going to mention Russell Wilson now at number six on your initial rankings probably is the guy who has the biggest opportunity to fall, given that he's in a new situation, new receiving core, new offense.

And there's some of these question marks about how his play is started to teeter off and some of the size concerns coming up. And hearing you say, you know, the top. team when you get into that third tier of quarterbacks is pretty interchangeable. I'll put the handcuffs away for ranking Matt Ryan ahead of Derek Carr. I was going to arrest you for that. I'm going to go down to this really, really interesting ranking. 21 Jalen Hertz, Philadelphia Eagles, quarterbacking a team that has so much public money on them, it's absolutely bonkers. So many people are betting the Eagles win to the FC East. So many people are seeing Hertz take this massive step

with A.J. Brown, Tvante Smith. Need to hear about that ranking. And I guess, can he get better? Do you think he's going to finish higher on this list? Do you see him as a potential riser? And And then at 22, already talked about Gino Smith. That's probably the highest anyone has ranked Gino Smith in the history of time. And then to a tongue by Lowa at 23, behind Gino Smith on another team that has high expectations. We talked about it earlier on the show. The Eagles and Dolphins, who entered the offseason probably plus money to make playoffs, are nearing closer and closer to minus money to make playoffs because there's so much money backing both these teams

because of the talented rosters they have and not the quarterbacks I have. The chances, I guess, to sum up the question that hurts and to a rise. And does Gino stay at 22 or is. this guy have potential follower as well? First of all, always fade the public. The public doesn't know what they're talking about. Always fade the public. There you go.

I would say, I'll start with Tua. I feel like we've made the Tua discussion way too complicated. This is how I would describe Tua. He's an ideal quarterback for a rookie contract. He's going to run the offense. He's going to read what's on the teleprompter, basically. But when things go a little haywire and he has to deal with some pressure, he just turns into a, like, I'm trying to think of a better,

word, but I'm just going to use this word. He's useless. He's useless when he has to go to a play and B. He panics in the pocket. His feet start to pitter-patter. He throws into coverage. This guy does not throw the ball away. He does not react to pressure by throwing the ball away. He reacts the pressure by throwing it to the defense. It's up to them whether they catch it or not. I really don't think it's a hard evaluation. He just doesn't have it. Like five times a game, he has to make a play, make a tough throw. He never makes it. He's made it like twice. And I I do think there's one thing we get wrong about, too. He could throw a good deep ball.

Like, if he has to lead a vertical route into space, there's open space downfield. He throws it, like, pretty. He throws a pretty deep ball. A lot of loft drops right into the receiver's hand. Now, the problem, the arm strength question is when he has to drive the ball. When he has to throw those, like, deep digs over the middle into a tight window. He just doesn't have it. And I don't, like, quarterbacks don't really improve their arm that much.

Or the mentality, the playmaker mentality? Like, we see it with Derek Carr. Derek Carr has the arm. He just doesn't have the mentality. I don't think Tua has either. So I really don't think this is complicated. Now, playing in that system with those receivers, like he's going to produce. He's going to put up some numbers the same way Jimmy G did. But when you watch those games, you're going to be like, okay, they're putting up points. He's producing. His stat line looks good. But I know something's off here. I know a good quarterback when I see one. And that's just what it is. Just watch the games and you see it.

I want to go back to the top of your ranking, Stephen. You've got Tom Brady at number four. At this point in his career, it seems like blasts me to put him outside of the top five, but you got Josh Allen right there at five. Why did Josh Allen not creep up there a little bit more when we start to talk about the top two in Mahomes and Rogers and bump out a guy like Tom Brady? Do you still think that Tom Brady is going to put up the kind of season that he put up last year, even though he's a year older at 45? That was like the toughest ranking, like Tom Brady coming out on Josh Allen.

Like I had this formula and these attribute grades. And, like, I stuck to the formula. Like, I personally, like, before I was doing this, I would have put Josh Allen ahead of time break. He just worked out this way. But I do think the formula kind of underrated Josh Allen just because he's such a unique player. We don't see quarterbacks that aren't necessarily accurate and don't necessarily make the best decisions, like play after play, be elite quarterbacks. But he does it because he's just so damn talented at everything else. He's the size of a linebacker.

He could throw the ball a million yards. He's getting better. He's a man. L.A. He's, yeah. Elway on steroids. I'm not going to bring up that word when discussing Tom Brady, but it is kind of interesting that his arm.

Like, I don't believe in Santa Claus. CB 12 water, Stephen, don't you ever forget it, okay? I don't believe in Santa Claus is all I'm going to say. But Tom Brady, his arm is stronger than it's ever been, and he's throwing throws that he never made in New England. And it's amazing to watch, and he still has all the mental sharpness. Like, he's, no one's quicker than him in terms of process. you know, one sees everything in terms of pre-snap.

It's hard to rank them any lower than fourth, but like I'm getting blowback from both sides. Like Tom Brady's not high enough. Josh Allen's not high enough. All I can say to that is the quarterbacks are good now, man. The fact that Justin Herbert is third is amazing to me because he's like, you watch his film and it's like he's perfect. The fact that there are two quarterbacks that are better than him is amazing to me. So like, sure, Allen's fifth, but if you want to put him third, he, like, I'm not going to argue with it.

Which got is you and you just mentioned the four games, bad, too good, that kind of vibe. Which guy did you enjoy watching tape of the most? I mean, if it's Aaron Rogers, fine, but Patrick Mahomes fine, but which guy did you say, man, this is, this is more interesting than I thought it would have been going into it. You know, I'm going to say Gino Smith. I'm going to say, no, I'm not going to say Gino. You're about to say you want to make Austin set of someone on fire during the podcast. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm going to say Lamar Jackson. I'm going to say, I want to give Lamar a little love because I think he's kind of underrated by these rings. And I'm the one that. And I'm the one that

made him. I, like, had to give him 120 for creativity just to get them to this point. But one thing that I think people get wrong about him is, like, his passing ability. He's one of the most talented passers in the NFL, like, in terms of, like, arm flexibility and, like, throwing sidearm, throwing with his feet, like, not in position. The accuracy is a lot better than people realize. I thought last year was his best season throwing a football by far, like, even way better than 2019. I do think some of the criticisms are fair.

He's not the most accurate quarterback, and he can, you know, take a large step in that area. The pre-snap stuff is concerning. Like, I do think he needs to control the offense a little more. Like that Miami game on Thursday night where they just like cover zero all game long, you don't do that to Tom Brady. If you did that to Tom Brady, he'd put up 50. So I do think those are areas where he can improve.

But as like, as a passer, his arm talent is ridiculous. It's one of the most flexible arms in the league. And I think that's something that people need to like update their priors on in regards to him. I wanted to get back to Jalen Hertz, another guy that I think has a lot of polarizing opinion, right? Some people really high on him, some people really low on him. Jalen Hertz at 21 on your list just ahead of Gino Smith. How does he finish inside the top 20 and match some of these expectations that Eagles fans have and a lot of Eagles betters have? And I guess, how does he finish the season in this same spot or lower, right?

What happens for him to come down on this list? It's going to be really simple. And this might sound oversimplistic. Just hit those deep crossers off play action. He couldn't do it last year. We saw it in the playoffs. there was openings in that Bucks game and he just couldn't make the throws. I think he has a big margin for error that he provides himself because of his athleticism and his ability to run.

Like he's not just a scrambler. He has legit running back skills and they finished 10th in DVOA in offense. I don't think people realize that like off the top of their head. And they finish that high because what he can do in the run game and how you can craft an offense around that. Now there's still limits to it because he can't make those throws over the middle consistently. If you look at his passing heat map, there's just a whole lot of blue right over the middle of the field. And until he can make those throws, I think he's going to stay around the spot. I do think he has a high floor, but his ceiling will be dictated by that.

The ability to make those intermediate to deep throws over the middle. Well, I can't wait for the season unfold so Stephen Ruiz can put his meteoric rise of Mitchell Trabiski through his rankings. We can document it week to week to week. Steve, this is going to be fun, man. I can't wait for you to join us so we can pour over these rankings every chance we get, man. Thank you so much, brother. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys.

All right, Austin, you got your Gino Smith love off. You talked a little bit about Tua with Stephen Ruiz and got Lamar Jackson conversation in there. I feel like this thing's going to be fun week to week, not just the rankings, but the lists and all the conversation that is surrounding it. I'm really looking forward to it. I think the methodology is probably the most interesting. You know, I'm a freaking math guy and seeing, you know, how numerical, how numerical, like Ruiz has done to approach us and even hearing about some of his process on making Lamar Jackson 120 creativity to get him in. into the top 10. I'm interested to see how that process adjusts. We tweet because you can't overreact. You can't overreact one game, two games, three games for a lot of these players that have

played multiple years. I know he's basing it on last year, but I think this is going to be fascinating. I think Russell Wilson, like he said, probably has the biggest drop opportunity just because he's already ranked sixth. And in terms of risers, I like Lance as a potential riser. I like two and Hertz as potential risers, quarterbacks that are ranked outside the top 20 with low sample sizes of stellar play. This is going to be a lot of fun. I'm excited to bring someone else on, like Ruiz, as smart as he is, as much shape as he watches. I think this is going to be fantastic. Yeah, I was hoping he wouldn't get to the Justin Fields portion of the conversation,

but he somehow dropped that in there knowing exactly how to hurt me. So week to week, you guys will hear not only my Bears musings, but of course what's happening with the rankings around the NFL, where there would be coaches, rookies, defenses, quarterbacks, running backs. We're going to have it all here for you. And we're going to have the betting side to it as well. Of course, shout out to our people over there, a fan dual sportsbook. My man, Austin Gale, thank you so much, man.

I will see you next week right here. Same place, same time. For AG, I'm Jason Goff. Thank you so much for hanging out with us right here on the Ringer NFL show.