The Ringer NFL Show - A Scary Reminder of How Dangerous This Sport Can Be (Ep. 196)

Episode Date: December 5, 2017

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark recap Week 13, including why the horrific injury to Ryan Shazier isn’t the worst thing that can happen in today’s NFL, and that’s a huge problem (01:30). Then, the guys discuss why this angry version of the Seahawks may be the most dangerous (10:00), how the Packers are now set up for Aaron Rodgers’s heroic return to help them steal a playoff spot (25:00), and why Jimmy Garoppolo looks like the future of the 49ers (32:15). Finally, Danny Kelly joins the show to explain how the Patriots defense has perfected bend-but-don’t-break over the past eight games (37:00), and the guys offer their lasting impressions from Week 13 (48:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is JJ Reddick. You may know me as a basketball player. You may have seen me play during my college career at Duke University or perhaps over the past decade playing in the NBA for the magic, the bucks, the clippers, or the Sixers. Well, today I'm here to tell you about my new show, the JJ Redick podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. This is where you can find me interviewing athletes

like my current teammate, Joelle Ambide, as well as in-depth conversations with celebrities like the late-late show host James Corden. The very first episode goes live later this week, so make sure to subscribe to the JJ Redick podcast wherever you get your podcast. Boswell is ready. The snap, the ball, put down, the kick is up arching through and could the Steelers have won it on a 30-yard game-winning field goal by Chris Boswell. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark.

Week 13 is in the books, including that Steelers-Bengles game, which Pittsburgh narrowly won out. But that is probably the least important thing to talk about from that game. The horrible Ryan Shazier injury kind of put a pall over everything. We will get to that as well as the rest of Week 13. We'll also talk about the shake-up at the top of the fantasy playoff picture. Plus, Danny Kelly will be here to talk about the Patriots defense. Kevin, we're going to start with our four downs, though. And I don't think there's any other place to start outside of that Pittsburgh game.

Yeah. I mean, even if Ryan Chazier wasn't a great player, this would have taken over the game, just seeing how scary that moment is. But the fact that Chazier is such a big name in the NFL, it really is going to take over this week of the news cycle, I think, just updates on him. Now, the most recent update as of Tuesday morning is maybe a spinal concussion, which isn't as bad as it sounds, apparently. Tom Maddox had a similar injury of the Steelers reporter. were saying and he missed one game in 2002. Obviously, that's a different era.

But I think that moments like that, because it's, what's particularly upsetting about a moment like that is there seems to be no easy solution. That's the problem with that. Because it's, you know, it's not a doctor let him go back in the game after a head injury. It's not, oh, we can solve this with better helmets. It's, or even the better tackling, tackling,

technique that we talk about all the time. I mean, sometimes desperate tackles are made. Sometimes guys put their head in the wrong spot. That's just how football works. And there's no way to get those moments out of the game. And that's what's so upsetting because the problem is the game itself. Yeah. And that's the issue with that one, right? Some of these huge hits that we see, whether it's what happened to Devante Adams, something like that. That's the type of stuff they're trying to legislate out of the game, right? You're not allowed to hit. receivers above the shoulders, things like that. This is a defensive player just trying to make a play.

And with how quickly that stuff happens, especially over the middle, you can practice all the correct technique that you want. But every once in a while, they're just going to be one or two moments where your body contorts in a way that you can't necessarily control. And you hit somebody with the top of your head. And unfortunately, this is occasionally the outcome. You know, there's a backboard. There's an ambulance.

And it's terrible. I mean, there's no doubt that it's terrible, but I don't know what the answer is. I mean, this is just something that's going to happen with the way that football currently works. And maybe that's a problem in and of itself. Yeah, I mean, I think you get in, I think once you see an injury like that, you get into the rabbit hole of sort of an existential problem with football, which is why do we, you know, I think Peter King tweeted this last night. And he said, if you see that and you're a parent of a player who wants, or a kid. kid who wants to play football, how do you let them play football? And I don't, you know, I know that it's sort of there's a recency bias in that,

having seen it last night, but I sort of agree with Peter. If we have kids, I don't know how we say after watching that stuff, okay, you can, you know, go play. And I don't care. I mean, it certainly gives you pause. And I'm not trying to minimize what happens to ranchezy last night. I mean, it's a horrific injury. And again, it's brought upon by just the.

Absolutely. I think what Doug Baldwin said it's not a collision sport. It's a brutal violence sport. I mean, that's saying it's a contact sport, brutal collision sport. I mean, that's what it is. But that's one problem is the fact that you can have this devastating injury on a single play. This is separate to the conversation we're having about head injuries, though. I think that's important to understand. They're both. What connects them is that a play like that and the idea that repeated subconcussive hits are the most problematic part of player's safety. What joins those two things is that they're inherent to the way the game is played, and you probably can't get rid of them without changing football at a fundamental level. I guess there's a pretty big issue if what we saw last night is not the biggest issue in the sport. I know. Trust me. That's kind of what I'm getting at is that that is so traumatic. And in that moment, I don't even understand how you keep playing.

I don't understand how he must have felt obviously, but just his family, everything else. I mean, that stuff is so hard to deal with in the moment, but kind of stepping back, that still isn't the issue that we're talking about when it comes to player safety. And again, that that probably is its own issue. I just think, you know, one of the things that stuck with me and will stick with me is a report by Dede King Cabal, my old, my old Walsh eternal colleague last night where she was talking about when Shazir was getting loaded into the ambulance, he kept pointing at his lower body and his waist. And if you saw obviously Shazir on the field last night, you can sort of guess how he was reacting and just the sheer terror that must have

been going through his head. It's horrifying. And obviously, you know, he's the one you think about the most. But the guy that whose reaction stuck with me was just watching Vince Williams when he was going out to the backboard. That's happened to me before. When I was a senior in high school, one of my best friends got flipped onto his head and they had to bring out the ambulance.

And you're just sitting there watching. And you just, I remember that night's so incredibly. incredibly well and just understanding how you keep playing i mean i did and i don't understand how we did but just not knowing just spending the next two hours i mean i the kid i've known for a decade and it's still like a very good friend of mine and the fact that we didn't know an hour later i could have walked off the field and he they could have told me he'll never walk again and that's just it's i mean the fact that that's part of this game is again it's hard to reconcile at times but i don't know what you do

I don't know the answer and I'm not sure. Well, that's what's so helpless. That's why we feel so helpless by the situation and why we're more upset than normal. Because every single problem the NFL seems to have, they have an army of experts, doctors, and lobbyists who are at least telling us, oh, it's getting better. Even when they say concussions are up, you know, 15% as they have been in the last two or three years, it's oh well that's because they're being reported more this is actually a good thing everything has been spun in a positive way as if we're on some march towards progress in the sport of

football which in some situations maybe we are i'm i'm less optimistic than the league office obviously um but this is not one of those things this is not one of those things where they can spin it in any good way this this sucks no and this is i think that john gruden and show mcdona they're talking about how, you know, Ben Rothsberger was talking the night before about just the violence and kind of the brutality of that rivalry and how he thinks that he's afraid of it sometimes just because the way the guys play. And they did a good job of separating those two things. But then the fact that that stuff kind of lingered the rest of the game was kind of disgusting to me. Like, I can't believe that there was that much just chippiness and whatever over the

course of the, that those next three quarters after what had happened. Like, there's a way to kind of figure out that you can be professional in all this. And the way that Rothenberg has a lot of dumb stuff this year, but him describing the Ravens Steelers game and saying that you can still feel there's a respect. Guys aren't trying to hurt each other. I think that that's just kind of one step that the league can take or teams can take. It's we're all here

to do a job. Like there's no reason to take it to that next step. And I think that's an important thing for people to realize. Yep. Totally agree. Totally agree. I was surprised too at the level of violence that continued through the three quarters after that.

Yeah, I mean, rivalries are one thing. And then even Even some of the post-game comments, I know it was very emotional, but if you saw the perfect response from the Stewards locker room where Antonio Brown is screaming about karma and stuff, I mean, it was very heated. And I don't know if that's a reaction to what they saw on the field or they were just able to compartmentalize it or whatever. But I was surprised at the level of heat for the remaining three quarters after seeing that. All right. Let's move on. Let's get to the other primetime game here. For second down, let's talk about those zombie Seahawks

who just refuse to go quietly into the night. In the gun on third down, high shotgun snap. Wilson drops to throw, wants to float it for the end zone. It is Lockett who makes the catch and tiptoes along. You know what I kind of like about this? Is that I pick the Seahawks to make the Super Bowl and I haven't backed off that just because we haven't really done any sort of mid-season repredictions or whatever.

Yeah, that's good. I haven't put you in that spot. I don't have to do it yet. Like I'm going, obviously going to at some point, but I kind of like the idea that I'm just going to let it ride. Here come the Seahawks. Here comes the new John Kittner, Russell Wilson. If anybody missed what I meant last week,

it's that John Kittner was the previous record holder for yards accounted for on a percentage basis that Russell Wilson's about to smash. And I think that's kind of the question I wanted to ask you, and you've answered it already, is that are people going to regret writing, off the CL team at any point. I mean, now with that win, they're pretty much pointed toward the playoffs. I mean, it's going to take a lot for them to lose. I think the Green Bay is going to have to make a nice little run. So it's, that win was huge. I think that as we were kind of trying to figure out

that NFC field, that Seattle game against Philly, which is kind of pencilled in as a loss. And now, you know, they're sitting at eight and four. They're in a really good spot. So it's one of those things where you lose Camp Chancellor and you lose Richard Sherman. And those are such huge names and they've been around for so long. And you kind of forget just how many good players are still on the Seahawks. Pete Carroll has Chris Carson is unbelievably ahead of schedule. But even beyond Chris Carson, Mike Davis was really good on Sunday night. And then you have guys on the other side of the ball.

I wrote this and I've just kind of talked about it in a couple of days since. Bobby Wagner looks like he's actually possessed. Like it looks like a supernatural movie right now. The play, I'm thinking of it was in the first quarter. and he just kind of stalked J.Jai in the backfield. And then after the tackle, like, moon walked on the ground on all fours before getting up. It just looks like he's in this ridiculous zone right now. It's kind of terrifying to watch.

It's interesting to me because Danny said something the other day that I think we can talk to him about later. But he said, you know, pissed off Seahawks are better than, you know, over, you know, everybody is content Seahawks. Everybody's paid. Nobody's pissed off. Nobody's yelling at each other. Having said that. I'll take Sherman and Chancer. Of course, absolutely.

But I'm just saying it's just how dangerous are they? In the league where you don't feel that great about the completeness of most teams, you would have said Philly is the team you felt best about top to bottom. And then they lose to Seattle. I mean, it's just one of those things where, I don't know, if we're talking about Buzz Sawes and we're trying to figure out who is one, I think that that's Seattle team. I ranked them very high in the threat index that I did for kind of the second tier playoff teams

just because you still have Russell Wilson, You still have guys in that defense. Frank Clark had a huge game. They have a lot of talented people over there. Even if they're not complete, even if you're worried about who's not there, there's still a lot of guys left. Did what you saw on Sunday make you think that the Seahawks could beat the Eagles in Philadelphia in a playoff game? Or is this just one of those? Because here's the thing for me.

I think even really good teams, even if the Eagles, the Eagles, go 13 and 3. Teams just sort of have those games where the offense isn't working. It's just they go across the country. They don't, you know. You fumble on the one yard line. You fumble on the one yard line.

I mean, this is just, it was very, like, Madden tells you you're not going to win the game, right? Like, that's it. It's, I, and I just felt like you could almost write that game off of the Eagles. And so I'm not ready to say the Seahawks should beat the Eagles in Philadelphia. at this point. I'm absolutely not. I mean, I think that that's the exact type of game you're talking about. Even in the best seasons, you know, think about when the Patriots won undefeated, how many games they were just scared, you know, on the road, you run against the Eagles in prime time game was

one of them. The Ravens. Yeah, I mean, so there are plenty of games where even if you're a fantastic team, you're going to have these moments. And a team like Seattle is the team you're going to have them against in Seattle. I mean, just somebody with still that core of talent that if one or two guys just have monster games, they can come up and bite you. That's exactly what happened. And the pass rush was better for Seattle. That's some really interesting things that Justin Coleman play, where he blitzed off the edge after they were twisting.

You just don't see that kind of stuff from the Seahawks that much because the talent is so good, typically, that they don't have to be wonky and their schematic stuff defensively. But now they're blitzing more. I think they're finding who they have to be when they can't just line up and beat you. And finding that kind of middle ground. between, all right, we need to be a little more creative because we don't have the talent, but we still have some talent. I think that could be a nice little sweet spot for them defensively where they could still be

pretty dangerous. Okay, I have a thought about this. I have a broad overarching thought about this. And it's that talking to somebody the other day, actually may have been Michael Lombardi. And he was saying that situational football is more important than ever in the NFL because the games, there's so much parody, there's so much. you know, mediocrity, quite frankly, that the only things that matter are,

how good is your two-minute? How good is your, you know, end-of-half execution? How good is your third-down execution? Very specific things. What's your third and short package? And I think that Pete Carroll is in there with Bill Belichick as one of the best situational coaches in football. And I think as we increase this sort of great parity in the NFL,

that's going to become more important. So, you know, is Andy Reid a great situational coach? No, that's been proven. You know, that he doesn't maybe manage the clock as well as some other guys. Belichick and Carol will reign when it's a parody-driven lead because they know how to make up the very, very, very minute differences between two teams. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that you've seen Seattle's been solid in the red zone again.

I think they're 10th in points per red zone trip. for defenses, which when you're not that great of a defense, and you know, you have some issues, the fact that you can still be a decent red zone defense is important. So I agree. I think that they still have that situational aspect to them and they still have guys that can just go make plays. I mean, the fact that Wilson's making both of those throws down the left side to Graham and Baldwin just in big spots, that happens. You know, it hasn't been a spotless season for Russell Wilson, but he's still going to make enough plays.

And that's what matters. You know, when you don't have consistency offensively, hopefully you can find. lightning in a bottle two or three times a game. And that's what the Seahawks have to bank on. The NFC playoffs are going to be ridiculous. Let's get to that. Third down, let's stay in the NFC. Let's talk about how that Eagles loss combined with wins by the Saints and the Vikings

kind of shakes up the top of the playoff picture because, you know, Philly was cruising. And they absolutely were. You figured that they'll have the number one seed and they look like the best team. Still very well might. You know, they're 10 and 2. So are the Vikings. Saints are sitting in 9 and 3. Minnesota's win to me was extremely impressive.

And they're not blowing out Atlanta like they have with some other teams this year. But to go in and really dominate the Falcons offense on third down, take Julio Jones out of the game, we talk so much about Case Keenum, Adam Thiel and whatever, the surprising parts of this Vikings team. But the defense is still so disgustingly good. And that's what they were again on Sunday. And now Minnesota is hot as hell. And if they get home field advantage, the Super Bowl's in Minneapolis. It's kind of crazy.

I saw an interesting tweet the other day. And it was just a comparison between all of the 10 and two teams. And the Eagles have beaten the Panthers. That's essentially their marquee win. The Patriots have beaten the Saints and the Falcons. The Vikings have beaten the Saints, Ravens, Rams, and Falcons. Yeah. And leaving aside the fact that this tweet indicates that the Ravens are some sort of signature win,

They've still defeated at least three good teams in the Saints, Rams, and Falcons. And they play the Panthers this week. They play the Panthers this week. And that's what, remember, last week, my whole thing was how we're about to find out a lot of things about the NFC playoff picture, because you get the sort of NFC South round robin with the Saints and the Falcons and the Panthers. And then you get the Vikings going through the NFC South. And that's where the concentration of power is right now. And so I can't wait to see this.

I cannot wait to see this And I just at some point And I say it all the time You are what your record says you are The Vikings are a damn good team I understand that Case Canem is their quarterback And you're hesitant to believe But I mean for some reason

We've bought into the Rams And by we I mean Just sort of the national media We bought into the Rams Much more quickly than we have the Vikings And Case Keenom was better than Jared Gough Last year I think that

What's impressed me most about Minnesota Is that it's a little bit of a different different version of a win every single week. They never do it the same way twice, but they always managed to do it. And by always, I mean, like eight in a row. So this week, a few things stuck out to me. One, the fact that Xavier Rhodes can just go up and muscle Julio Jones and the fact that they can do it all game, you have guys over the tops and Dejo made a great play on kind of a jump

ball for Jones. They're so disciplined defensively. And that's the kind of thing I feel like is missing from a lot of these units. and because Minnesota's so spotless but health-wise on defense, they're so complete. You just have these plays where teams are trying to do throwback play action passes and everything else and just get defenses moving in the wrong direction. And as soon as you do that, Harrison Smith is dropping you for a one-yard game because he didn't do that.

They always have one guy that's going to make a play. And that's so important in a league where it seems like being able to manipulate a defense is the most important thing. And the other part of it is offensively, it's always something. On Sunday, the stats don't jump out of you. Keenham was fine. He did a nice game. But there's like one big Murray run here and there.

There's one play where Keenham extends it just outside the pocket and gets a first down. I wrote about it in my Monday recap. He's been pressure on 38.2% of dropbacks, which is top five in the league. He's been sacked 6% of the time on those. That's insane. That's incredible how much they're willing to or how much they're able to avoid disaster. And when your offense was so problematic up front last year, when you lose your quarterback and you're starting running back, the fact that disaster hasn't befallen

you is unbelievably impressive. They've just been able to march on. I'm all over Brian Baldinger's Twitter breakdowns, as usual, our favorite thing in the world. And he pointed out, Keenham's had a quarterback rating over 100 for four straight games. And just the way they use movement before the snap where they're putting multiple guys in movement. And I'm just so impressed with the way Pat Shermer's run this offense. I mean, I just, should Patrick

I'm going to head coaching job again? I don't know, man. I mean, he's done a great job. That's just one of those. If he does, it's going to be, if people are going to just be so salty about it. That's one of that. Here's my question.

I wrote this a couple weeks ago. But like, the coach churn has sort of ruined the NFL coaching market. Like seven openings a year, basically over the past three years has made it so everyone just gets fired all the time. And there's just not a deep pool. So you either have to go to college. You have to go either what they're really.

young guy like the Rams did or you have to go with the retread and when I'm thinking about retreads here I mean Pat Shermer's in the top five right he's done an unbelievable job I mean everything about that offense is impressive from player development to the way they've been able to kind of integrate new guys seamlessly offensive lines take a while to gel they were good right away with every all new starters it's been very very impressive I mean I think that that's the team that even with all the weirdness that this version of the Saints or how good the Eagles are, even the Rams, the Vikings being able to do this offensively while maintaining the defense is kind of what's made me shake my head all season.

Man, Baldinger really hates Gino Smith. It's got a tweet storm here. Let's talk about the Saints for two seconds because I think that that's another hugely impressive win from this Sunday. I mean, what is there left to say about the Saints? I mean, this team just seems to get it done no matter what. And the thing that just kind of shocked me on Sunday is that they were able to just run the ball on Carolina. I'd have figured they would have to sling it around a little more than they have in games past. And it feels like Kamara and Mark Ingram and this stuff is just matcher proof now.

They're just able to kind of get it going against anybody. And I just didn't see that happening against Carolina. I thought this would be the week where we'd see a little bit of a different version. And they didn't even have to do that. Alvin Kamara 8.4 yards per touch is a stat via NFL.com. 8.4...

Have you seen this stat already? Yes. 8.4 yards per touch in the last 25 seasons there's only one running back who's even above 7. Excuse me, 7.1

and it's Darren Sproles who is 7.6. For these same saints. But Kamara is almost getting a yard more than that. I know. I mean, the guy's unbelievable Jamal Charles

Charlie Garner hey now All at 7 I mean Alvin Kamara has historically good I thought it was interesting Sean Payton joked about how they had no idea how good he was

otherwise they wouldn't have taken the third round You know I think that there were some podcasters who were calling for him to be a high second round pick and by that I mean me But you know what are you going to do? And I think Peyton's point was interesting, just the sense that they didn't know what they'd get it as a runner.

They viewed him as kind of this secondary option to Ingram and more of a past catching back, but they didn't know what they would get as just a running back. And that's what they've gotten a ton from is that every time he gets the ball, no matter how they give it to him, he's making something happen. That's rare. It's rare for a back built like that. It's rare for a back whose role they envision so different. really. Every time they give

him the ball, something good happens. When you have Drew Breeze, a quarterback, and your other running back is pretty damn good, tends to work. My favorite thing right now, maybe on the planet, is reporters asking Drew Breeze, like, about his new role. And I think, I don't think he really

accepts that he has a new role. So he has, but he has to do the nice guy, like, I'm on camera thing. So he's, oh, you know, my job's still the same. And he's sort of short circuits because he doesn't want to be like, I'm Drew fucking Breeze. Yeah. You can measure me for my Hall of Fame jacket right now. Yeah.

And also, by the way, these guys see eight-man boxes 20% of the time because of me. Yeah, it all kind of works together. I feel like that's the thing we sometimes forget. All right. Let's move on to Fort Down. Packers win an ugly game against Tampa Bay and just an ugly season for Tampa Bay. But what I want to talk about is more so what's on the horizon here. And that's that with the buck's.

With the Bucks, with the Packers win, with the Panthers loss, things are starting to get interesting here because Aaron Rogers is practicing again. And the whole idea with Rogers coming back was he wouldn't unless they were in it, unless there was a reason to. So now you have the Packers at 6 and 6, the Panthers at 8 and 4. Talk about this already. The Panthers play the Vikings next week. The Packers play the Browns.

So there's a very good chance that two weeks from now, the Packers and the Panthers will play each other with Green Bay one game back. And that is the day that Aaron Rogers is eligible to return. So in this scenario, that game, if both of those wins and lost kind of situations go down the way we think, that game will be for the second wildcard spot in the NFC at that very moment. This could really happen. This is not some like pipe dream anymore with Aaron Rogers being the guy to ride in on a white horse. It's really, really possible. And that is just terrifying. When he comes back, do you think, you know, I think you made the analogy to the final hour of John Wick.

Yeah. Do you think he picks up right where he left off? Or do you think that there's this, I mean, I just, I worry Aaron is such a competitor that I worry he's going to come back. just to sort of light the world on fire, and he might do it too early. Just because he comes off IR and is eligible to come off IR, doesn't necessarily mean he should. You know, I think the Ian Rappell reported he's not ahead of schedule.

He's just on schedule. And so I do worry for the long-term health of Aaron Rogers. We don't, we certainly don't need another quarterback working his way out of the league. And, you know, if Rogers comes back and gets hurt, that's disastrous. This isn't a back injury, though. You know, this is a, It's a pretty simple kind of like, you break your collarbone, it heals. It's, I've seen him do this.

I watched it happen a few years ago. It was at the expense of my team when he came back in week 17. Yeah, Tony Romo had some collarbone problems. But you can break it. If you break it, it breaks these years the next time. Yes. But it still is one of those things where I don't think it's going to linger. I feel like he's going to come back and play just fine.

I watched it happen already. He came back and torched the bears in week seven. a few years ago in this exact scenario. That was when he could come back to help them make the playoffs, and he did, and they did. Oh, I remember.

It's, this really seems like it's kind of coming together. And I would not rule them out. And if they, no, nor would I. If they make it, no one wants to see him.

That he is like the magic bullet in all of this. And it'd be fun. As a bear's fat, it would not be fun, but it's time to start kind of considering that it's possible. I know they played Minnesota next week, but I have a question.

As a Bears fan, when did you flip the switch and you were just like, like what year was it? I don't care. I'm a Bears fan. This is fun to watch. I think when I started covering the league,

sure. So just because it's hard to hate teams when you are around the players and know them and like them. I mean, just guys that you respect. I mean, they're all human beings. I think that's when it probably changed. I'd say maybe three or four years ago.

How's that working out for you? It's not great because my team is an absolute disaster all the time and it seems like they're going to make the playoffs for the 10th straight year in a year where they shouldn't have. All right. Let's get to your craziest headline in the week, Kevin. All right. I'm obsessed with the story and I want to talk about it. Here's the headline. Replay the down. Second Silver Dome Blast works. Did you see that they tried to bring down the Pontiac Silver Dome and it didn't work? Yes. Is there any overlap between the people who run the Lions organization and the people who were trying to bring down the Silver Dome?

I hope so. It just made too much sense. I went to the Silver Dome last year, two years ago. For what? When I was working at S.I., we were kind of doing this road trip for the Super Bowl, and they wanted me to go and write about the Niners Super Bowl that was there and also, like, see what was left of the Silver Dome. And I almost got, like, in very big trouble because I was. trying to sneak into the Sovere dome and there was a security guard in a very old suburban

and he kicked me off the property. Is it the same security guard who was, is it like the guy at the end of Indiana Jones guarding the Holy Grail? Yes. Yeah. It probably was. I confused the Holy Grail in the Ark of the Covenant. Was it like that where he's watching over the Silver Dome?

Yeah, that's exactly what it was. What is that guy doing now that it's been exploded? Totally unclear. He was in a very old. suburban and it was just chasing me around the lot. I would have just written about that guy. Instead, he tried to put you in jail. Yeah, he was not happy with me.

He was really not happy. Was he yelling anything? Was he yelling like, don't disrespect the Silver Dome? I don't remember what he said to me. WrestleMania 3 was here. That was kind of, yeah, but that was the idea. It was like so many important sporting events were there and it was just kind of wasteland after that.

And then somebody did sneak in and take pictures, which I was very jealous of. I'm wondering how he got around the crotchy security guard in the suburban. He drank from the right Holy Grail. That's right. Yeah. It's pretty clear. I chose poorly, apparently. All right.

Yeah, it did not go well, but it was fun. It was a good effort. I mean, I'm glad I tried to sneak in. I'm just sad I was not successful. That's amazing. What a stadium. Fun little times. I went to a Bears Lions game there years ago.

Oh, my God. I mean, I never did that. On Thanksgiving. I once had plenty of Bears Lions games in the 90s, but there was always his older field. I got food poisoning from the Silver Dome food. Not a great member. to be honest with you.

Sorry, buddy. Not as good as my Silverdome memory, apparently. You didn't get in. Oh, I know. That's what I mean. We both had kind of tough, tough deals at the Silver Dome. Who's had a good time at the Silver Dome,

I guess is the question. Maybe Barry Sanders once or twice? No, I don't. Barry Sanders bailed on the Silver Dome as soon as he could. Who had the best run in Silver Dome history? I mean, was it probably Andre the Giant? Who won that?

Was it actually WrestleMania 3 that they were there? Yes, I believe so. I don't want to get that, you know, come after me. I'm almost positive that was WrestleMania 3. As someone who wrote about the Silver Dome, you know, not that long ago. Yes. March 29th, 1987,

which was about six months before I was born. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody watched the Andre the Giant documentary. Yeah, absolutely. There's the plug. This whole podcast has been a last year and a half. It's been a viral advertisement for this moment.

Native Andre the Giant documentary advertising. That's what the ringer NFL show is for. All right. Let's get to my ringer of the week. This is the first time we're going to have a quarterback here. But when you're playing for a one-win team and you know, you throw for not that many yards, I don't think your performance is that obviously great. Jimmy Garoppolo was very good for the 49ers on.

Hell yeah, he was. And I think that, you know, they scored 15 points and that doesn't look all that impressive. But just really move the ball up and down the field. He looked incredibly comfortable through the ball accurately. It's just, you know, it's one game. It's against a team that's not very great. but does have a solid defense. So after four quarters, I'd say

49ers fans should feel pretty darn good about the choice that was made. I mean, the guy looked really good. It's subtly mobile, and I think that that's a big thing in Shanahan's offense, the fact that he's not going to be afraid to move around, all the boot stuff is going to be in play.

So, I mean, right now, the returns, you've got to be happy with it. And I think that I wrote about this a couple times, I wrote about this on Monday, but the 49ers' office, offense with Garapolo, I think as you start to piece it together, can get there quicker than people think. I thought Goodwin was fantastic on Sunday for San Francisco.

I mean, just doing things I didn't think he could do. And again, it's all relative. But when you pick a guy to essentially be somebody who runs down the field very fast and he looks like an NFL wide receiver in more moments than that, you got to be happy with it. Garcone, I've never been shy about how much I like him. They need a couple more pieces. I think that a number one wide receiver will be really. really important for them because they don't have that guy.

The comparison I've made in the last couple days is that Goodwin and Garsoen to me kind of remind me of what Gabriel and Sunu were for Atlanta. And you need that Julio Jones guy. Obviously, Julio Jones isn't growing trees. You can't just find one, but a big body receiver that it can hurt you on crossing routes, but can also go get the ball. And we'll see. I mean, they have a top five pick.

They have a ton of money in free agency. The guy I threw out yesterday was Alan Robinson would be interesting to me. just as a skill set that they don't have right now. Alan Robinson, Marquis Goodwin, Piercarcone, George Kittle, who is a young tight end, I think, has a lot of talent, and Jimmy Garoppolo, now we're starting to get interesting. They need some interior offensive linemen 100%. But, again, I think that Garapolo is the biggest piece, obviously,

in that offense going forward and whether or not they were going to find something with Shanahan. And so far, I've just been very impressed. I thought that everything he did on Sunday was pretty darn good without a lot to work with. Trent Taylor was floated by Baldinger as the number one connection in the future of Jim Garabolo. That's very funny. I mean, he'll be the solid receiver. That's fine.

You could have those other three guys plus Trent Taylor. I get all my future scouting reports from Brian Baldinger. Yeah, as you should. All right. Coming up, Danny Kelly will tell us how the Patriots defense is actually just as good as it was last year, which is a scary thing. Plus, we'll offer our lasting impressions from week 13. It's the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network.

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That's the beauty of hotel tonight. Whether you need a room for tonight, the holidays or beyond, you definitely want to download the hotel tonight app. So this year, avoid that creaky old pull-out couch and get a room with hotel tonight. Time to welcome in our good friend, Danny Kelly. Danny, how are you? I'm doing great, guys. Dan, how are you guys? I'm sure you're just riding the Seahawks highs, though.

I would be. That was a fun game. Yeah, I was sure it was for you. I had the exact opposite experience on Sunday. That's still lingering with me, so I figured you'd be, you know, on the other side of it. Yeah. All right, buddy, Tom Brady did not have his best game on Sunday, but the Patriots defense continued to be impressive. What is it that's turned that New England defense around?

Well, I mean, we talked about this at the beginning of the year. I remember Kevin, I was like, I trust the Patriots to get it figured out. And Kevin was like, why do we do that? Wait, I just want to say that that was a pro Patriots point. They're the only, they're the rare species where we're just like, yeah, whatever. We trust them. They'll figure it out. And, I mean, yeah.

have done it. I think it's just, I don't think they've even, like, changed anything major schematically and they've even done it with a bunch of injuries, too. Yeah.

You know, I think it's just a matter of, like, communication, you know, the right type of execution from everybody. It's kind of just crazy how the little things like that do help.

Obviously, I don't think the Patriots have turned into like an elite defense or like anything like that where it's, you know, they're not number one in DVOA. They're actually 29th in DVOA right now, which is something that Aaron Chats

has written about. a couple of different times recently. The DVOA just seems to underrate them a little bit. But, I mean, if you look at the first four games, how bad they were, they were giving up 32 points per game. And then over the last eight weeks, they're eight game win streak, they've only given up 11.8 points per game,

which is best in the NFL. So, I mean, it's kind of the same thing as last year, where they were the top defense in terms of scoring defense. Last year, they were probably middling in terms of a lot of the efficiency stats, but they're just really good in the red zone. You know, the bend don't break type of defense. And obviously it helps to have a very good offense and special teams group,

giving them good field position and all that. But, I mean, it's just kind of crazy how they've cleaned it up. It makes it, I mean, we talked about this early on in the years. Like, it makes them scary again now that they have that balance. The number one team in points per red zone trip in the NFL coming into week 13 was the Chargers, which they're a good defense. Number two is Jacksonville, which, again. Yeah.

Patriots number three. Yeah. And when your offense is that good, as long as you can keep teams out of the end zone, and as long as you can keep the score down while teams are moving the ball, it doesn't matter. That offense is going to score points. I mean, they're able to do it in so many different ways.

Obviously, you know, no gronk for a game, but their just collection of weapons on that side is so dangerous that if you can keep teams to 21, you're probably going to win most games. And that's a standard that, Most NFL teams just can't live by defensively. You can't just rely on our offense like that, but the Patriots can't. And I'm not going to say this is the best Patriots defense ever.

Obviously, it's not. But it's kind of crazy. This is the first time in Belichick's tenure, which goes back to 2000, that they've held an opponent to less than 20 points in eight games straight. Like, that's actually kind of crazy to think about, like, with how many good teams he's had over those years. It's the first time. and considering that the beginning of this run was defense-centric.

The beginning of the Belichick run was basically the team was basically flipped. That's incredible. Yeah. God, they've given up the most yards per drive in the NFL coming into last week. And they just don't want a team score. We talked about this with Kevin, or Kevin and I talked about a little earlier, Danny.

It's just the idea of situational football and how much it matters. I mean, the idea that you just really have to lock it down in the moments that matter most. And if you do, then it goes a long way. I mean, that's just so true. New England is the perfect example of that. Yeah, I mean, and it's funny because Belichick is sort of known as, like, you know, the evil genius.

And a lot of that is what he's done with Brady, what, you know, his different coordinators and not with Brady, but he's a defensive-minded coach. I mean, that's what he's always been. And, you know, that's sort of his, you know, that's his thing. And it's showing up again. I think it's, again, that's why we trust them to get it all figured out every year. But, yeah, I think, again, this just, again, this just, just makes them so much more dangerous.

Because early on in the year, it was like, okay, Brady's going to have to score 35 points a game and drag them to the playoffs. And now, you know, Brady can have a bad game and they're still going to win and a blowout. Is there a situation for either of you guys off the field or on where you wouldn't trust Bill Belichick? If you're on a flight and there's a small fire on the wing and you can see it. He would know what to do. And then the cockpit swings open and Bill Belichick's there just going, yeah, we go, we got a little fire. Like, do you have any fear at all in that spot?

It would be amazing. He would go on like an 800-word diatribe about how to put out a small fire and all the agencies that go with it. Look, folks. He would roll his eyes at you if you ask how to fix this. I had a fire in, in 04. I had a fire back in Cleveland, fire with the Giants. That's the thing that would be a fire from like 1986. He has a lot of fondness for that fire from 86.

It stuck with him for a while. I remember driving to work with Ted Marsha Broda, and he talked about fires. Yeah, I would love to see Belichick in like an escape the room. Like, how good would he be in that situation? You'd be out of there like 10 seconds. All right, Danny. Let's get to some of the lesser playoffs.

I just want everyone to know I could do this Belichick bit for another hour. And I will be doing it. I will be doing it off the air. All right, Danny, the Ravens Jaguars both won again. They seem like they're pretty entrenched in the AFC wildcard race. But it's because of defense and running game for the most part. Sunday was a little different. You know, you had big games from Flacco and Bortles.

Two questions for you. Do you think either of those guys can replicate that in a game that really matters? And two, if they can, do either of those teams, have a shot to give the Steelers and the Patriots a run. Yeah, so I'm saying like the odds of either of those guys doing it consistently are very low in my mind. Like I came into this week

basically thinking Flacco was the worst starting quarterback in the NFL easily. And I mean, you still might be. But, and I was even talking with Mallory Rubin during the day, like early on in the games. Like, at some point we're going to have to write about Flacco because this is just getting ridiculous, but then he ended up having, like, actually a really good day.

I mean, he's just been so, so bad. It's just, like, the most dink and duck offense imaginable. I think he's actually, like, on track to have the lowest yards per completion of any quarterback or whatever. In history. In history. It's crazy. And that's why the approach was so strange on Sunday,

and that's why I think that even if it's not something we see consistently from them, it was a nice, just sight for anyone who cares about the Ravens, because it's not as if they had something in the passing game. It's that they were trying to get something. The fact that he was pushing the ball down field, even considering it, was a departure from what they've been all season. And that throw to Mike Wallace down the sideline,

even some of the ones he didn't complete. I mean, he was really just trying to rip some throws to Jeremy McEwen in the intermediate areas of the field. And we just haven't seen that from the Ravens at all this season. I mean, he had 192 yards in the first half. It's just bizarre. And when they, I mean,

I'm not saying this is the, even Super Bowl year again. I mean, that's just their defense is as good, but the offense doesn't have as many pieces. There's so much more injured on that side of the ball. But the reason that Flacco got hot in those playoffs is because they threw the ball down the field. And that's just what they should be doing. If you can't have a consistent passing game, why not just chuck it to Wallace every

once in a while and try to find Macklin on some crossers? It doesn't make sense to not do that every time because that's all Joe Flacco does well is push the ball. If they can get that. He doesn't do it that well, by the way. It's what he does better than most things. It's what I mean. If they can get even an average offense,

and this is sort of the inverse of the Patriots where even an average defense will make them a championship caliber team, if the Ravens can get an average offense, just even average, I think that they are a Super Bowl team. That's how good their defense has been, which, you know, it's kind of flown under the radar. I think they're up there with the Jags in terms of just dominant in so many different stats.

you know, it's sort of flying under the Raider because I think that, you know, maybe it's just more regular for them to have really good defense or whatever. But yeah, that defense is amazing. The Jimmy Smith injury is a factor, but yeah, I mean, they have a championship caliber defense. If they can get just a few of those games from Flacco, especially like later in the year, you know,

then to me they're just, there's so much more dangerous. But I don't have a ton of faith. I just don't have a ton of faith watching Flacko all year. Love. You know, if he does it a few more times maybe, but to me, it's, still just that's like a little bit of an aberration. I could probably say the same about Bortles.

He's just too turnover prone in my mind. He's the kind of, you know, guy who will get hot for a little while and then get a little cocky and like make a really, really terrible pass or something like that, you know? So I think, you know, they're probably both, I just can't see it being a major factor down the stretch. I think they're going to have to win with their defense

and run games still. I agree with you, but here's the reason that I would have a little bit more faith in it happening for the Ravens. it's that with Bortals, we've seen him ping pong all year. He said a decent game. He's at a terrible game. It's not as if a switch was flipped. If Flacco can just come into games with this approach, that's different than what we've seen all season.

And I think that if this is the start of that, even if he's Joe Flacco and he's not very good quarterback, I still feel like that mindset and just way of going about their offense is an improvement and a way to get better. The problem, again, is you need a perfect defense when Joe Flacco is your quarterback, and now you lose Jimmy Smith. So any kind of like chipping away at that unit is going to hurt them. Marlon Humphrey had a very up and down game. You know, got roasted by Marvin Jones a couple times. They need the best defense in the league to be dangerous with Flacco. And now maybe they aren't that anymore.

Yeah. I mean, it's those little things like you said, they chip away. I think the one thing I'll agree with you, the one thing about Flacco is that he has done it in the past. Like that, that playoff run where they won the Super Bowl, you know, he has that on his resume at least. you know, so obviously hasn't been that guy basically since, but, you know, maybe they can rediscover that magic or something. Just try to throw it. Just try to throw it more than five yards down the field.

That's all I ask. And if they do that, it's probably going to be better than what we've seen before. It's got to be. It's got to be still good. I mean, just do everything you can to, like, conjure some offense. And that's what we saw on Sunday. And who knows? I think that they can keep doing that.

And I think that's why I feel a little better about their offense in the Jags. Yeah, I'm on board with that. I agree. All right, buddy. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. We'll see you on Friday as we always do. And thanks a lot.

All right, thanks, guys. Daner. All right, Kevin, before we get out of here, let's offer our lasting impressions from week 13. Okay, so this is basically putting a bowl in the entire show. It's something I've been thinking about. We've spent the last 13 weeks talking about, I don't know, maybe the lack of drama in this NFL season,

maybe the lack of intrigue. The NFC playoffs are here to help us. I don't know what to expect. I've never been more excited. I was at dinner last night with another NFL writer. And one of the frustrations I was saying is normally on December 4th, on December 5th, you just say, okay, well, these are the four teams I know will be playing on January 12th or whatever it is. I know I can go to, you know, every year I knew I could go to.

to Green Bay around this time and you could pencil them in for a divisional round, I could do two features and we're done, right? I don't know what the hell to do. I truly have no idea what I'm supposed to do from a story of perspective and there are two separate things. From a story perspective, you know, that doesn't matter

from a fan perspective. That means there's a lot of intrigue and that's really cool. It is going to be so fun to watch these teams knock each other out. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, no matter who gets in and that's another question who does get in. I mean, do the Falcons sneak in? Do the Seahawks sneak in? Do the Packers somehow get

involved in this? I mean, every single team is interesting. I don't know. What's the field you want? Have you thought about that? I mean, I want Rogers in. I think that's, I think mine is L.A., Seattle, the Vikings, the Packers, the Eagles, and the Saints. I think that's mine. But then Falcons don't get in. I think the Falcons could be fun. I don't know. It's, matter how it breaks,

it's going to be amazing. Did you name six teams there? Did you throw an extra team in there? No, I said six, I think. Right? Are the Panthers in?

No. Okay. Not in like the teams I want to watch in the playoffs. The Panthers do not get in. No, no, but I think they might make it is the thing. Sure. But that's what I'm saying.

If the Packers win this week and the Panthers lose and then Green Bay knocks off Carolina with Rogers, then things get crazy. Right. So there's really, who knows at this point? And again, whatever happens, it's going to be just endlessly watchable.

I totally agree. The one thing I really can't wait for is wildcard weekend. Maybe you get the Rams Packers. You get the Saints against the Seahawks in New Orleans, a completely absurd loud arena, a stadium rather. And the other game is Jaguars Chiefs and Ravens Titans.

Yeah, the AFC is great. Really excited about that first round in the ASC playoffs Ravens Titans All right, let's stay with just some miserable stuff Do they still do? Remember they They still do it like the Saturday night Wildcard game Which everyone just knew to ignore

It was always like Redskins, Panthers Remember that Panthers? Remember that Panthers Cardinals game? Oh, I do Trust me, I remember it well I remember one time I was trying to storm Bruce Ariens And I asked John Gruden It was before that game I was like

Are they doing anything schematic that impresses you and Gruden seemed almost offended that I had asked him to break down Ryan Lindley like he was not he wasn't mean about it or anything

he was just kind of like I'm not I'm not doing that I'm not talking about Ryan Lindley here thank you I'm not just not doing I appreciate you appreciate you appreciate you all right let's stay with some just terrible football and my takeaway from the weekend is just how freaking miserable

the Chicago Bears are right now The fact that the Bears lost a game where Robbie Gold made five field goals is just the most perfect thing in the world. Because the Bears cut Robbie Gold for no reason because they needed to save a couple million bucks. And now they have no kicker. So it's really fun. I mean, that's just as cosmic justice in the best way. But everything about how this team is being handled, it's frustrating to me. The fact that John Fox came out yesterday and said the reason they didn't let the 49ers score at the end of the game is they thought they had a good chance to block the field goal.

It's awesome. I'm going the other way on that. I'm going the other way it rules. He's just making stuff up. It's just completely making stuff up. There was a minute 47, I want to say, when it was clear that they were in field go range and if you let them score on that high touchdown run,

you would have gotten the ball back with about a minute and a half. There's no possible reason that you can rationalize and not letting them score a touchdown there. it's just I don't understand what he does. It's very good. I really don't understand what he does. I really don't understand what the plan is here. If in what possible world, can you take Mitchell Tribesky number two, see the way that this team has handled him this year from a front office perspective and say, John Fox will be the coach here next year?

And if that is the case, why wouldn't you start finding your new coach now? Because reading everything about what the Rams did and how they landed McVeigh, is that the month head start they had to kind of slow play the interview process, really dig into his plan, what he wanted to do, and then get in front of other teams wanting him, that was precipitated by them firing Jeff Fisher a month before the season was over. So I don't understand what the plan is here. We're just going to let John Fox play out the string.

I don't like calling for people's jobs. I understand the realities that go along with that. But at a certain point, it's over. And this is over. I feel like one of the issues with the what is the plan idea, especially when you consider getting a head start in the coaching search, is that the people in charge are still the people who hired John Fox. I understand that, but you can't chase one bad decision with another. No, no, I'm saying they made the bad decision. Perhaps they are bad decision makers. I understand bringing in John Fox at the last point in kind of creating the franchise that you want.

when you need to take a next step, I think that you get rid of John Fox. Everything about what the Rams did is applicable to me here. You need a coaching staff whose number one goal is to get the most out of the guy you drafted number two overall. That is the first question I would ask anyone in this interview. What is your plan to get the most out of this quarterback? I think that's why you need an offensive coach. I think everything about the way they've handled Trubisky and everything about the way this season has gone offensively leads you to believe that something drastically needs to change.

And I think it needs to change sooner rather than later. Right now, for instance. Yes. Like tomorrow. Today. It's Tuesday. It's your off day. Players aren't in the building.

All right, buddy. Who's their coaching waiting? I need to hear their, like, who's their interim coach going to be? I'll probably fan you. Phenomenal. Yeah.

I mean, that would be my guess. Unless you want to give it to Donald Loggins, which would inspire. Oh, wow. It's from no one. I'd like to see that. It's a really bad situation.

I'm in on Loggins. All right, buddy. That's it for today. We'll be back on Friday to recap a huge Saints Falcons Thursday night game and get everyone set for week 14. As always, thank you for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. Thanks, guys. Support for today's show comes from Hotel Tonight, an awesome app for finding and booking

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