The Ringer NFL Show - A Thanksgiving NFL Mailbag! | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: November 27, 2019

It’s Thanksgiving week, and we celebrate by answering listener questions on all things NFL, including the biggest surprise of this season, Freddie Kitchens's future in Cleveland, trading Sean McVay, sending Tom Brady to the Chargers, Drew Brees’s legacy, how the Titans can be anything better than average, and more! Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the NFL show is brought to you by State Farm. When you need a game plan for protection, State Farm agents are here to help. The personalized service, agents are available to talk in-person, over-text, or through the State Farm app. So go with the one with coverage and agents you can count on. Find an agent in your neighborhood today. State Farm. Talk to an agent today. This is the Ringer NFL show. I'm Robert May is joined as always by Kevin Clark.

Kevin, how you doing, buddy? I am fantastic. I am high off that Lamar Jackson performance last night. I think we all should be. I am, I mean, really, if there were a perfect matchup, you could just make up this schedule as you went along every single week, wouldn't you want the Niners to play the Ravens Jackson? And isn't that what we're getting?

Yeah, that's probably a good example. I just think that watching Lamar Jackson right now, there's just, there's nothing like it. That was the most thorough ass kicking I can remember in a football game. They could have yanked him in the middle of the third quarter. And it's not as, the Rams defense has been good this season. I know the Rams' offense has had plenty of issues, but the Rams defense has been good.

And it just looked like they weren't even there. It's remarkable what they look like right now. Yep, agree. All right, let's get to the questions. We are going to do a mailbag today. It is Tuesday. We're recording this a day early because we have families and holidays and things like that. So we're going to try to spend some time with them and not do football on Thanksgiving or the day before.

So we're going to answer your reader questions. Thank you so much to everyone who submitted them on the Facebook page. We got a ton of good ones. So it was not hard to get a show's worth of questions out. out of you, which I always appreciate. So let's start with Sam Park. I think this is a good intro one. What has been the single biggest surprise of this season?

Biggest disappointment, however you want to put it, Kevin. I think we've talked a lot about a few of these over the last week or so, but the biggest surprise to you all year. Okay. So I knew Lamar Jackson was going to be good. I knew the Ravens were going to be good. I didn't know that Lamar Jackson was at this point going to be the runaway MVP favorite. He went to, I think, mine.

300 in Vegas today. Everybody else is at least plus 250 and has at least right now opened up this gap on Russell Wilson that is, you know, it will be easy to close if Russell Wilson plays at an elite level and it does so in prime time as Lamar Jackson did last night and all this stuff. But right now, the MVP is Lamar Jackson. And I think if you told me that in August, I would have been, it would have made sense, but I would have been shocked. That's kind of where I'm sitting too. When I wrote up them before this season, I thought they had the pieces in place to be very fun, but we still hadn't seen it from Lamar Jackson. It's not crazy to say that he was not impressive as a thrower over the second half of last season, especially in that playoff game. If you looked at the way he played, you could definitely get worried about it if he was the quarterback for the future of your franchise.

He's looked so, so much better in that area this year. And I want to get into this as we talked about some other quarterback discussions during this show. But I just think we're reaching a point where we should really just start believing in these guys who are super, super talented. And we should just say, let's roll with this and let's figure out a way to make it work. And I think he's just somebody that is a perfect example of that right now. Watching him on a football field is different than watching other guys. The way he moves, the way it's so smooth. He's so much fast than everyone.

Watching guys consistently get the wrong angle on him is just so fun. It happens 10 times a game. guys just have no idea how fast he's going to be moving when they get to him. And I just should have believed in that element of things a little bit more. I will still say I am more shocked by the Eagles being pretty bad than I am about the Ravens being really good. I still think that is the most surprising development to me. Just because it seemed like they had so many fail safes in place because of the depth, because of the way they'd built the roster, all of them have failed. every single one of them.

They've gotten hurt in areas where it didn't seem like they could get that hurt and it's really crushed their season. It just, there are so many things where I was like, even if that goes wrong, they'll be fine. And they haven't exactly been fine as that stuff has gone wrong. Okay. I think that the Eagles are not a historically underachieving team at this point. Okay.

The Ravens are actually a historically good team right now. So there was a stat on the ESPN last night on the stats info page. The last team. to win four games by 34 points or more before this Ravens team, which by the way, the season is not over, was the 1920 Buffalo All-Americans, who had the Lamar Jackson of their day.

We don't talk enough about how great that Buffalo All-American staff was. It never comes up enough. They had a plan for their quarterback and they just hit it hard. No, so I just, I think that we see this sort of underachieving from a team like the Eagles fairly often. And so I wasn't, listen, I'm surprised. I thought the Eagles are going to be really good,

but once you start, you know, picking up some injuries and kind of that depth starts to go away, it makes sense why the Eagles aren't where they need to be. And then there's been a step back from Carson Wentz. I mean, there's a lot wrong with the Eagles right now. But what I'm saying is I've seen this sort of movie before from other franchises who have been hyped in the preseason by me and others.

And listen, the fact that I pick them to make the Super Bowl and they're not going to make the playoffs. I'm wrong all the time. That's normal. But this Ravens thing is not normal. Yeah, you're right. I think I'm just not looking at it in terms of degree the way that I should. It's just good or bad.

I think the Eagles being bad is more surprised to me than the Ravens being good. But the Ravens being this good and this historically good, that probably is the right answer. I just could have imagined a world in which the Ravens were one of the best teams in the league before the season. It was hard for me to imagine a world where the Eagles were just this mediocre. A couple other surprises. I mean, I don't think we thought the Rams would be this bad. I don't think we thought that the Rams.

I was started the joke a couple weeks ago that Sean McVeigh is Chip Kelly 2.0 where he just had one good idea than never made an adjustment. I was joking. And I'm joking less and less about that take every single week. We're going to get to that later in the show. Trust me. The Rams offense being this bad, no matter what was going to go wrong, I expected they'd be at least average. They're not even average anymore. The Baltimore Ravens are playing so good on defense right now.

I don't know why I said Baltimore Ravens, like I'm on a Sunday show. but the Ravens are playing so good on defense and offense. A dismantling is possible, but they just couldn't even do anything. They could not move the ball on Monday last night. It just was really hard to watch. Sticking in the NFC West, I am shocked by how good the Niners defense is. I thought that there would be a world where the Niners could be good because their offense, I believed in so much just with the talent that they have

up front with Kittle, Shanahan dialing stuff up, all of that. I never imagined that the Niners would be a defense that could carry a team to a Super Bowl. That was never on the table for me, and they look like that right now. I mean, they had a couple, you know, playing against Russell Wilson. Obviously, he can make you look a little worse,

but they have really kept things up in a way I never expected. I didn't think that Trubisky would be this bad, and I also was surprised at just the wheels falling off the Falcons. The Falcons could wheels falling off I had on my list as well. Trubisky being this bad is not surprising to me. Okay. I didn't know he'd be like, I didn't know he'd become Bortals this quickly. it was always that was always in play and it was always the

comparison I feared the most multiple steps towards borderdom and he went right to borderland you actually played much better on Sunday against the Giants but it's we can take that with a block of salt all right let's move on some of these names brodie eric asks which coordinators are we not paying enough attention to who should or would be head coaching candidates

I think the coordinators were probably paying attention to the right ones But if you're building just a quick list of head coach candidates right now, who are the names you list off first? Well, Greg Roman, first and foremost. He's on top of my list. Because that's, I mean, no one has come forward with a better plan around their quarterback. And listen, I think that there's kind of a chicken and egg thing with Lamar Jackson. Yeah.

As far as would a smart team, he had to go to a smart team, right, that would celebrate him in a way that the Ravens have built around him. That was the book on Lamar Jackson is that he had to go to a smart team and they know how to use him. But I wonder if only smart teams would ever have drafted Lamar Jackson because they knew he was special and they knew what he was capable of. Like there doesn't seem, it seems actually impossible that a really dumb team would have been like, let's draft Lamar Jackson because dumb teams have no good ideas. Dumb teams cannot see where the sport is going. They can only see what happened in the past or they just make up what's going to happen in the future. like dumb teams, bad teams stay bad. And so the idea that Lamar Jackson could have been a transformative figure for some of these

teams, I don't know if that's actually true. It's probably off the table for at least half of them. Yeah, it was off the table because they are a bad team. Bad teams don't look at Lamar Jackson and see possibilities. Bad teams look at Lamar Jackson and say, oh, man, this isn't what I'm used to. Greg Roman has done so many cool things over his career. His Buffalo offenses were actually very good with Tyrod Taylor. He got, he was a scapegoat there and what he never should have been.

I think there's a reason Greg Roman's not. never been given a head coaching job before. I think some guys just don't have the wiring for it. I don't know Greg Roman, but I think that it's, there's a lot more than just devising a cool offense. And Wilson, I don't know if Greg Roman is the right person to do all that other stuff,

but I think in terms of what he's done with that offense right now, he has to at least be in the conversation. I think that Robert Sala is probably in this conversation. I mean, you think about what that defense has looked like. I also think personality wise, you absolutely can see why a team would be excited about him. He's a fun guy to kind of put in a press conference,

and that stuff matters when it comes to this. He's younger. He's energetic. I think that that is going to play. The other guy on that Broncos or that Niners staff that I think is interesting is Joe Woods, their passing game coordinator. Because if you look at the last four years, he was the coordinator of the Broncos defense for two years.

They finished 10th his first year is the defense coordinator. They finished Spiff, the second season last year. He comes in to this team, which has the same defensive coordinator and a lot of the same players in the secondary. I know their pass rush has gotten much better with Bosa and Waddy Ford has gotten them, but they had the same players on the back end,

and they're all playing so much better. So if you just look at his body of work over the last four seasons, I feel like he should be in some of these conversations for at least a defensive coordinator job somewhere. He should get some looks for a promotion. I don't know if that's a head coach, but it should be something.

I would also put Wink Martindale, the Ravens D.C. Absolutely. That conversation. I mean, this is a defense. It understands how to bully people. I mean,

I just think the way they've used Joel Thomas this year has been great. Getting Earl Thomas in the first place was great. So I think that there's, this will not be last year where there's eight openings

and seven of them go to Sean McVeigh's friends. This is not that. This is going to be a more eclectic group of candidates. And that's a good thing for the league. I think so too. And I think we've seen what happened with the Sean McVeigh stuff. I understand why.

understand why it happened. I wrote an entire series of stories about why it happened. I didn't know how it was going to go. It has not gone very well. I, uh, Martinel is absolutely on there for me. I think that in the same way that the Ravens offense has kind of looked at what their personnel was and said, let's be this. The Ravens defense and how they pivoted to this group is really, been really cool to watch because you lose, Darius Smith, you lose Terrell Suggs, you lose C.J. Mosley. This is a team that was pretty much built from front to back on the defense event for a little while. they've completely changed that this year and they've changed the style they play as a result

and that's all you want to see from these teams. Another guy that should have gotten a head coaching job last year and probably should still be in consideration is Eric B. Enemy from Kansas City. We've seen that a lot of those guys have done pretty well. I mean, even Jim or John Harbaugh is from the Andy Reed coaching tree. So there's no reason to me why Eric Bienemy should not be a head coach. Agree. All right, what's next?

Oh, what couple of more I want to throw out there is very quickly. I think that this is year 10 of Dave Talb's name probably being tossed around. I think what changes that this year, what John Harbaugh has done as a special teams coach I think should open some team's eyes just what that kind of coach can be. If you are a good manager of people and you surround yourself with smart guys on both sides of the ball, you can be a really successful head coach. So I'd be curious of more special teams coaches don't get a look just because of how good Harbaugh has been.

I was on David Chang's podcast a couple weeks ago, and I was actually talking about that. He was asking me how teams hire and where the mistakes they make lie. And one of the things that I had heard from people inside the NFL is special teams coaches do not get enough credit for their adaptability because they're dealing with a fire drill every single week. And the whole roster. Yeah, the whole roster. And also they're given, they don't really get much priority on decisions.

Offensive and defensive coordinators can say, hey, we really need this guy to run our system. Special teams coaches oftentimes when you're dealing with gunners or punt cover, or whatever it is, a lot of those times, you're given a guy who they think has receiving potential. Not everybody's the Patriots and it's just going to, you know, you're going to get Matthew Slater or whatever.

A lot of teams have to deal with what they're given because a guy can play nickelback or can play, you know, the fifth wide receiver, whatever it is. And so you're adapting every single week. And I think that's a lesson in the NFL right now. I'm sure that those guys are also very thoughtful when it comes to roster management because of that. You're turning over so much. So even if at the beginning of the season,

you're giving the nickel back. In week 14, you're the one that's going to be half, that's going to have to incorporate the 50, 52nd, 53rd player when it comes to Sunday. And I think that's really important. Just a couple more offensive guys that I thought have done a good job this year. I think Nick Siriani has done a very impressive job with how they, with that offense, the way they've built it in Indianapolis. I know he doesn't call the plays.

I think that can kind of be overrated. Kevin Stefansky has done a really good job in Minnesota. That offense is awesome to watch. It's very smartly designed. and I think that he got head coach in looks last year. I wouldn't be surprised if he did again. And then I'll be curious to see if Chris Rashard gets a look again. I mean, their defense has not been as good,

but I do think that he's the guy that could absolutely be a head coach in the league. Okay. Next, next cue. All right. This is from Philip Johnson. What would you want to see from the Browns over the rest of the season that would convince you that Freddie Kitchen should be the head coach next year? I've already seen it.

I think they've done enough over the last month to warrant him. him coming back. And I can get into why in a second, but I'm curious what you have to say. Yeah, from my perspective, I don't know if I've seen enough. They're five and six right now. We've talked on Sunday about how they have a chance at the playoffs, like 30% chance, something like that. But I think I need to see Baker 2018 production for the rest of the year. I need to see that he's the play caller that he was last year or that the offense clicks like it did last year. I mean, I just, that's been the most disappointing thing by far. You know, okay, Baker Mayfield had 118 rating against Miami.

Like, congratulations, right? He's had a rating over 90 the last four weeks. But I just, you know, on the whole, I cannot justify bringing Freddie Kitchens back because Baker Mayfield played four good games. I just need to see this, you know, unfortunately next three weeks, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Arizona will probably weren't all that much against them. But it's, I don't know. It's a tough, tough question for me.

The reason I think that it's worth it is, and it's not. results based to me. It's not because the Browns have won a couple of games or Baker Mayfield threw some touchdowns against the Dolphins. It's a process thing for me. They have seen what Baker Mayfield is doing well and they're starting to lean into it. And they've seen what their offense is doing well and started to lean into it. Baker has a 40% play action rate over the last month. That is the highest in the league by a pretty good margin. He's completing 73.73% of his playoffers compared to 58.8 without a playfake. That's the second highest difference in the league over the last month.

9.6 yards per attempt compared to 5.3. That's also the second highest difference in the league. They have understood that he needs that right now. I love watching them play just quick RPO games, watching him throw slants to Beckham, just pulling the ball back. I think it really simplifies his decision making. I think he looks good doing it. They've started to do it more.

So that's what it's encouraging to me. It's not as if they saw what wasn't working and just continue to pound away at that without trying to find solutions. They've been trying to actively find solutions, and I think they've found a couple of them. They've also run 25 snaps out of 20 personnel over the past four weeks, which is three receivers, two running backs. They've done a lot of cool stuff with Shubb and Hunt together. They've run 18% of their plays with two backs, which, you know, I think two teams in the league

hit 20% last year. So I just like the fact that they're trying to get places. They're not trying to do the same stuff and expecting different results. If that's what they had been doing, I don't care if they're winning more games. I don't have faith in this getting better over the long term. But I do think the problem solving over the last month has given me faith that they can figure it out with another offseason. Or at least take a step forward from what they were this year. Here's what I think.

I think to matter what, I think the Browns have to at least look at what the pool might look like. That's fair. What if Lincoln Riley says, I want some money. I don't want to recruit anymore. I would take the job with Baker Mayfield. What if that happened? What if some really good veteran coach wanted to change of scenery?

I don't know the answer to that. This is all speculation. I'm just saying that it would do everybody a disservice in Cleveland if they didn't at least monitor the market, even if it was secretly. There's so much, and this is not specific to Cleveland.

There are so many teams who at least put feelers out or monitor the market or get those back channel things going on every January because you just never know who might be available. And I think Cleveland might want to be one of those teams. And if nothing is out there, if you're just looking at, okay, do we just hire a guy who maybe would have been less qualified to Freddie Kitchens a year ago?

Let's roll the dice, Freddie Kitchens again in 2020. But I think that no matter what happens, you have to keep one eye on the coaching market. Yeah, I think that's a smart way to think about it. I guess for me, it's just that I'm not saying he has to go. What I've seen over the past month is that it's encouraging. enough where I'd be comfortable riding with him if you didn't think there was anything substantially better out there. Okay.

Because I just don't think the coaching turnover that quickly is smart. And I don't think it's healthy unless it's an epic disaster, like what the Cardinals' offense looked like last year. That's not sustainable. But I do think that if you're showing some signs of life, I'd rather not pull the plug after a year. Okay. Brian Belasi says or asks, would the Rams consider trading Sean McVeigh?

to recoup some draft picks. And I, here's why I want to ask this question. It's, this has a follow-up question for me. If you were the Cowboys right now, would you offer your first round pick to the Rams for Sean McVeigh? I don't think so.

Isn't that crazy? I kind of agree with you. But to say that is so weird. First of all, the Cowboys drafts pretty well. They do. I think that Jerry will pay any amount of money to solve his coaching problem

after this season. And I think that you get into a pool of candidates that is, if they have, listen, the only drawback is people might not want to work for Jerry Jones, who is the general manager, obviously exerts a lot of power. That would be,

and this is hypothetical. It seems like that softened a bit over the last few years. And that's why they've drafted so much better. Sure, technically he is. But what I'm saying is, is that would be the only drawback. I don't think that's that big of a drawback. In fact, I think that most people would want to coach the talent

that is in that building right now. When you're making $11 million a year, I think you can deal with it. I'm surprised that teams haven't gotten more aggressive as far as that goes and just throwing huge money. Especially them. English soccer has actually, and European soccer in general,

has gotten so much more aggressive than being like, wait, Pep Guardiola is like basically makes teams a lot better. Okay, let's give him ungodly sums of money. I'm surprised. The inefficiency there with the fact that coaches only make $8, $8, $10 million. And I understand that it's all,

collect, you know, there's a salary cap floor and all that. But, you know, you're essentially paying coaches about half of what, you know, we talked about this, about what like, you know, Ryan Tannahill is going to get on the open market next year. And who matters more? Yeah. And that's why it just, I feel like with some of these guys, they should just be able to name their price. And Lincoln Riley, you're going to have to pry him out of there with a crowbar made of money. I mean, that's what you're going to have to do. And I think that they should try to do something like that. And a great situation and Dallas could be that great situation. Yeah, it's not as if you're going to a Moribund franchise that doesn't have any resources.

I wrote about this on yesterday or just the idea where this is a marquee friend. We talked about it on the show too. It's a marquee franchise. They have the deepest pockets, the biggest brand, the best facility. Their coaching should follow suit with that. And I think that that's why you should just spend whatever you need to do to get the best guy in there. And that's, I think they're maybe they're the wrong. example with this because they do have the funds to do it.

You wouldn't have to give up draft capital because you operate on a different, that's the advantage you have over some of these other teams. I just think they're the team that most clearly could use a coaching upgrade right now. So that's what they were in an example. Okay. Let's focus on McVeigh here for a second. Is McVeigh capable over under 10th in offense for the Rams in 2020? You have to go under right now, right?

So they're 14th in points right now. They're 20th in DVOA though, and they were going to be worse after last night. They've scored a lot of defensive touchdowns this year, man. They've, like, several, right? I know. This is so strange. It's really strange.

And I give the guy the benefit of the doubt because I do think he's smart. And I do think that they've done so much impressive stuff over the last year, or two years, three years. It just seems like it's gotten so stale. And we've talked to me, I've written about this, we've talked about this. the infrastructure of the team has crumbled a little bit when you think about the offensive line. It's really made it difficult for them to function.

Golf has clearly regressed, and they don't really have any solutions for how to keep him on the right track. When you look at a guy like Shanahan and you look at the way that offense has changed, even though the bones of it are the same as this one, you see so many cool wrinkles all the time. And it just doesn't seem like those exist for McVeigh right now.

Even if they've tried to do a little bit of different stuff with more zone, more man blocking schemes up front to take advantage of that six-man front, different personnel packages. It doesn't feel like there's been enough, enough experimentation, enough kind of sideways movement when things are going this poorly. And I don't know if he can correct that. I really don't know the answer.

And I also don't like the way that the resources on this team are currently distributed. I'm in agreement with that. The top three players make a whole lot of money. And you have no draft capital. None. I'm so disappointed in the lack of progress from the offense in the sense that there was no way to look at the back half of last year, in particular, the Detroit and Chicago games. Then obviously at the Super Bowl and not know what was coming. Teams essentially started ignoring the window dressing that was being thrown at them. They started ignoring that jet motion and all that stuff. Teams said, eh, whatever.

And then beyond that, one of the things that the Patriots were so good at was being so flexible in the Super Bowl and making those calls. late, they took the kind of the audible game away from golf. And once that happened, you had to know the book was out and you going forward. You know, I saw, I saw that basically there were, there were some rumblings the past week that teams are not even really having to run the six one against the Rams. No, it's not happening as much as it used to. And they're just, they're just beating them because they're better right now and teams and beating the Rams because they're better right now. And so I've been hugely disappointed. They haven't made those adjustments. You know, I talked to Dan Quinn about this in preseason. He said, listen, the, the,

way to combat these offenses, which have so many options to line, is to play their game back at them. And that is what's happening. That's what the Super Bowl taught the NFL. And this isn't RAM specific. But the defenses have options. They have multiple calls in a way that they didn't, five, six years ago, because they're adjusting to the offense. This is what keeps happening. Maze, you hear it. I hear it. We go around to these teams. And all of these old school coaches say, this stuff isn't new. Play action. We're going to be. able to adjust to that. And I sort of rolled my eyes. This was, you know, the past year where these old school coaches who, you know, they're wrong on a lot, right? But they're, they were right on this.

Defense is, defense is so cyclical. They can usually figure out how to snuff out a specific scheme. Yeah. And that the scheme has gotten a little bit too specific. And I know they've tried some solutions, but it doesn't feel like it's been creative enough. And maybe there's just not as much to work with. And, you know, the running back situation is so bizarre and opaque. And I don't know. know what's going on there. It's, I feel like there are things at play we may not understand. And I don't know what's going to happen. The fact that we just said, I don't know if he's worth a first round pick and I don't know if they'll finish with a top 10 offense next year. We've come a long way in one season. I'll say that much. Yep. Next question. Andrew McMillan,

this is a little strong to me, but I just wanted to talk about him as a player. He said, should Jamal Adams be in the defensive player of the year conversation? The answer to that is no. Yeah. Well, no. Wait, is he one of the best defensive players, the NFL, yes. Yes. Is he going to be in the defense of player your conversation or should he be? Probably not.

It's just been fun to watch the way they've used him, especially over the last month or so. He has 17 pressures. He has 11 quarterback hits and I think five, six sacks over the last five games. They've really unleashed him in the way that I wanted to see him unleashed when he came into the league. You don't want to watch that guy at LSU and say, okay, now you're a safety playing 15 yards away from the ball.

It just makes no sense. and to be able to kind of use him in all of these different ways. He's the best pass rushing safety in the NFL. He still covers very well. He still sets the edge and is a good run defender when they ask him to do that. It reminds me in a little bit the way that Derwin James is being used by the Chargers last year. He's really stepped into a role that is conducive to his skill set. And that's fun.

It's fun to see when defenses do that. They don't have much talent on that side of the ball. Greg Williams has done a pretty good job making that a functional defense for the most part with like two good players. Jamal Adams' personal life section on his Wikipedia says, Jamal Adams says a YouTube channel run by himself. That's a tough personal life entry. Did you see the Darren Carr situation that happened this week with

Jamal Adams? I did see the Darren Carr situation. I've had a Darren Carr situation. Have you had a Darren car situation? I've never had a Darren car situation. Derek Carr has blocked me on Twitter, which is not surprised. He's blocked half of Twitter. Am I blocked by?

Derek Carr? This is going to be big. I quite like Derek Carr. I'm in, baby. Look at you. Good for you, buddy. I don't, I'm sure I've seen, I've said something. I have had a darn car situation. Just a little, little bit of tweak in the Raiders. And sometimes you get Darren Car reply. No big deal. It comes with the territory. Anyway, that was a strange thing. All right. So, Jamal Adams, you know, this kind of gets back to what we're talking about with the MVP, a couple of weeks ago or last week, where there's two separate things as far as, what the voters think like and what maybe we should think like. In a perfect world, if it was just, you know, the literal best defensive player, then yes, Jamal Adams is in this conversation.

But that's not really how this goes. Usually defensive player of the year is relevant, to the playoff picture. He plays for a better team than Jamal Adams does currently. That's just kind of the way voters go about this stuff. So it's going to go to somebody else. Who is it going to go? Who would you vote for right now?

I wrote about it yesterday. I just thought the way the narrative is going. And him shutting down. and Amari Cooper the way that he did. I know sometimes you see games like that. You see stat lines like that. It's like, oh, man, he shut him down. It's like, no, not really.

I mean, he played on the other side of the field half the time. They played a lot of zone. That's not true with what happened with Stefan Gilmore and Amari Cooper. He just followed him around the field and didn't let him catch the ball the entire game. What he allows them to do is important to their defensive identity. And I think that's almost as important as production. And he's really unleashed the, the less that second. has played really good, and I think maybe there's some split votes, things like that.

But I do feel like the way that the narrative is going, he's probably the favor right now. Pepsi takes all NFL celebrations to the next level, whether it's a Hail Mary touchdown, a defensive stop on the goal line, or a Super Bowl win. When it's time to celebrate, it's time to crack open a Pepsi. I've said this before on the show. I've been a loyal Pepsi drinker for my entire life when I was young. Me and my friends used to hang out in my buddy's house. There was a small little fridge next to you.

the TV, and it was just stocked with nothing but cold Pepsi. And it just reminds me of all things, being young, watching sports, you know, pizza, Pepsi, video games, and we would celebrate Halo wins by cracking open Pepsi, because that's what was there. And it was just such a part of my childhood when fandom celebrating, those things were just ingrained in who you were. You're always looking to have a good time. And so many of those good times revolved around drinking Pepsi, with my buddies. Pepsi, the official sponsor of the NFL, reminds you to always be celebrating. All right. We kind of did this on a show in the off season, but I think that as with a season of reflection, it might be a good time to kind of quickly address it. John Griffle asks, if you were handed

the keys to either the Redskins or the Dolphins, what position group are you building first? And how are you doing it? Could you imagine being handed the keys to the Redskins? I couldn't. I honestly wouldn't want them. Yeah, I don't know the answer to this because I kind of think that both teams need so much. I tend to agree with you. I actually, you pick the best players. You pick the best player.

Maybe you pick the quarterback to accelerate, accelerate it. Maybe you pick some cornerbacks. I think that maybe you go after positions that are just hard to fight, right? So that would be cornerback. I think pass rushes a little bit like that. Offensive tackle, I think would be like that. I would start with the line, but that's, that's me. And I'm a parody of myself at this point.

tackle and then obviously quarterback comes first before any of those but I'm just saying I would just prioritize positions where it's hard to find guys and in free agency or elsewhere or develop guys and I would just just kind of go that way. I don't think I would say okay we got to build up XYZ I would just take the talent the talent thing I feel like is the way to go because they're kind of blank slates both of those teams I would still start with the line because I can't remember who said this and I feel bad for not citing it maybe it was Dan Orlovsky on Twitter the other day said it's really hard to be bad when your offensive line is great. And I believe that's true.

I think that you know who actually reminds me a little bit of because that they were the one bad team with a good offensive line was the Browns team a couple years ago. But they were going to be okay. Until Alex Mac got hurt, that offensive was much better than it should have been. I will maintain that to my death that the 2014 Browns are actually pretty good. That is one of my weirdest strong takes that I have. Dude, do you just hit us with a secret take shop? That's right.

I had to sneak it in even though we're not doing it this week. They went seven and nine. Mike Patton was their coach. Yep. Shanahan was the offensive coordinator. Justice for the 2014 Browns. Brian Hoyer was playing very well for the first five weeks before Mac broke his leg. I think losing your center in that scheme is very difficult.

So I maintain this. I think that's what I would do. I would spend a lot of draft capital and I would try to go out and get some functional starters in free agency. I think that that's a position where spending moderate amounts makes sense because having five legitimate starters is more important than having stars. So that's a spot I would definitely hit hard. And this is going to sound simplistic, but I think one of the lessons that we've really learned from the Ravens from the Patriots forever from the 49ers right now, I would just try to build my personnel to make my offense as hard

as possible to defend. And that to me involves a lot of flexible personnel and different types of tight ends, just being able to go to tight ends and have somebody that can block and somebody that can be a move guy and all the different kind of motions you can use and things like that with those sorts of systems. I just love watching football that way. And I think it allows you to function without super high quality talent at some of the past catching positions. So that's, I just want to have like a deep roster of tight ends watching the bears this year and just the complete zero they get from that position in an offense where it's super important to have a couple guys, it's frustrating.

And I think that that is a huge help for teams kind of trying to kickstart whatever they want to be offensively. All right. Next. Matthew Botak, at the time I'm pronouncing that, says, I'm a diehard Chargers fan. Yes, we exist. And even I must admit last week proved Philip Rivers is on his last legs. What is the best succession plan for the Chargers and Philip Rivers? Hey, let me ask you, I have a bigger question.

Sure. Let's say that some of these reports have legs that maybe Tom Brady might play for another team. If you were the Chargers, would you offer Tom Brady, knowing what we've seen now, would you offer Tom Brady a godfather like two years 65 contract? Probably not. Well, hold on. They're moving into a new stadium. That's important. They've sold 25,000 season tickets. That's important. PN report last year.

They've got to do something. I'm not even sure from a football standpoint, this is anything. And also, by the way, for Tom Brady, maybe two or 65 is an even godfather, considering what he's done. But he will be in his mid-40s by the end of, by the end of the deal. I'm just saying, wouldn't you consider it once he reaches free agency? Yes. And I think they're going to have to make a business decision or two that is not good for the

football side. And that's what this is to me. And it's not because I don't, I think Tom Brady is bad now. I do think Tom Brady is just kind of a quarterback at this point. It's more so that I just, the way that the rest of the roster is built and the amount of financial flexibility they're going to have over the next couple years and how many things they need, it just doesn't make sense to me to pay a quarterback $30 million. I think that you find a bridge guy, this is from a purely football perspective.

I completely understand what you're saying. From a football perspective, I think you find a bridge guy for next year. if you don't think you're going to have being arranged to get a quarterback in the first round. I honestly think the Tua injury is worse for them than it is for the teams at the top of the draft. Because they were the team that could end up with like the 12th pick. And if you look at the teams after that, we'll see what the Bucks do, everything else. I don't think there are that many obvious candidates to take a quarterback. So if you're the Chargers, I think you could have had a guy like Herbert fall to you if you wanted him.

now it just seems like those guys are going to get pushed up a little more. So if they don't feel like they can get one this year, I just think that you try to find a stopgap candidate for the next couple of years. We've mentioned the names a million times. It's the Mario Tansettas, the Tanna Hills. No one exciting, but I don't know what else you would do if you don't get one in the draft of this season. The funniest thing is going to be three months of just rampant speculation about Tom Brady's future and he's going to resign with them for one year, $12 million to win the Super Bowl again.

The Patriots? I know. That's inevitable at this point. It's just like we're going to talk about it. We're going to have all these destinations. You and I are both going to go back and forth. Where should Tom Brady go? And then he's going to take a discount to stay with the Patriots. And I'm going to win the Super Bowl again on a Stefan Gilmore pick six. All right.

Kevin Hart asked this. I hope it's the comedian. I hope it's the comedian Kevin Hart because it's this is a funny question. How many positives can you give about the Bengal season? I want to get through this quickly. The answer is zero. Hang on. They've played every game they were scheduled to play.

Is that a good thing? I don't even know if that's a good thing. It's a thing. It is a thing. It is certainly a thing. They never missed anything. I don't know if you could list a single positive. John Ross has shown some signs of development.

That's literally where the list ends. That's it. I'm going to look at the PFF Bangal's Twitter page because PFF has done a good job where they just like single-up. about like, you know, Stefan Gilmore's cover hasn't given up a reception in three weeks or whatever. I'm just going to see what PFF's Bengals page says. They have some Tyler Boyd highlights.

Tyler Boyd is, he's fine. I'm not seeing a lot of. Can you imagine if you were Andy Dalton right now where they bench you for a fourth round pick? He's so bad that they ensure they're getting the first overall pick. And then a franchise you played for for a decade trots you back out during an 011 winless season to take them to the finish line. Dude, the funniest Ian Rappaport when he reported that was like, well, it was all about

evaluation and the Bengals have seen all they need to see, which is just the grimmest thing because they saw weeks of Ryan Finley. It's amazing. It's so, so bad. And they're a team that they're going to get the number one pick. Let's say Joe Burrow is great. None of this is going to matter. They'll be fine.

They'll put a decent team around him. but never do anything inventive or fun in the meantime. And then that's where we'll be. So it's the answer to me is no. So a couple of PFF bangle stats, they've highlighted how many red zone targets Auden Tate has gotten. So congratulations to Auden Tate and the Bengals. That's where we are.

That's why I'm not even being flipping here. There's not a lot of posts on here because they haven't done much. They highlighted that Andy Dalton has the fifth worst passing rating when outside the pocket. So again, not a good thing. They showed up for that game too. Let's move on from this. This is upsetting. This is going to be just as upsetting for me.

Gerard Hooter says, what error did the Bears make when they rated Chubisky higher than Watson and Mahomes? We've talked a lot about this. This is where I wanted to get into that. Let's just believe that the good quarterbacks are good in college sort of thing. Mitchell Chubisky started 13 games at North Carolina. He was fine. He threw 30 touchdowns. They had a shotgun-based kind of RPO offense where he was decently accurate, I want to say,

and all that. Talking yourself into that while never having a conversation with a guy who beat Alabama in the national championship and started 38 games and as one of the most successful college quarterbacks in history is just the definition of outsmarting yourself. Just believe that the guys like Lamar Jackson and Deshawn Watson, who are doing this against the highest level talent every single week. I mean, maybe the ACC is not that, but these guys, are playing by the end of the season really good teams.

Lamar Jackson dismantled Florida State while he was at Louisville. Just believe that these guys are good. Don't sit there and pick apart the things they haven't done well in illustrious careers. Understand that at the highest level, they are destroying people in college. And we should believe that you can translate some of that stuff, enough of that stuff, to their success in the NFL. Mahomes was much harder to read. it's a much more complicated scenario and evaluation.

That's fine. The Watson thing is not. And I think that is the misstep. And I think that's a mist up people made with Lamar Jackson. And I think it's a mist up people have made too often with quarterbacks. Yeah, I've moved on this a million times. It's just, it's, this will not get better because GMs are extremely bad at predicting the future. But use the past.

No, oh, oh, buddy. I'm with you. I'm telling you, I'm just letting you know that the next time there are these generational special quarterbacks, they will still drop in the draft. There's a whole thing. And now, you know, listen, one of the problems

with what's going to happen now is that they'll probably overcorrect. Use all the wrong lessons. Everyone, like we always do. Okay, well, the lesson of Lamar Jackson is you guys and just build it around your quarterback and make them great. Well, you also,

it takes having Lamar Jackson. It takes having a special quarterback like that. And so it is a possibility where teams learn the wrong lessons, try to go all in and support a really bad quarterback and then swings that other way in a couple of years. And it's just, listen, I have no faith in NFL front offices to figure this thing out. It's bad. It's why I was so encouraged to see Kyle Murray go number one this year. Just because when you watch Kyler Murray last year, and I thought this, the moment I started

really, it's like turning it on and just see. seeing him play because I don't watch a ton of college football. And my first thought, after watching like four games, was that's the best player. Just take him with the first pick. He's the best guy. And that was my thought watching Deshaun Watson. I'm sure I talked myself into it at the time because I had to. And I read more into the while he only reads half the field bullshit.

It just the guys, if the guys are good, just allow, find the ways that they're good and try to do that kind of stuff. I know that's an oversimplification, but it just seems like that's a lesson we should have learned over the last five years. I've been hearing the same BS character assassinations about quarterbacks for like 15 years now. I know. Oh, you know, he only reads half the field.

Oh, they give him only easy throws. It's just, it is, people are just wrong sometimes, just flat wrong. Like, scouts are wrong. GMs are wrong. And the problem is, is that this stuff, this NFL conventional wisdom trickles into the media and then these guys get unfairly maligned.

and then it takes them a handful of years to prove their doubters wrong, even though maybe the criticism in the first place was wrong. I didn't even think about the Deshawn Watson thing that much in the moment when the Bears drafted Trubisky because I was so mad they did it after giving Mike Glenn in that contract. That was my initial reaction. I had even considered the quarterback evaluation side of that draft because I wasn't ready for my team to draft a quarterback with the third

and then second overall pick. So I didn't have the chance to be properly upset. about the guy they chose. I just was upset that they made a decision at all. And now I'm upset about the guy they chose. All right. Damon England says, as a New Orleans state's fan, I always like to hear everyone's views on Drew Breeze.

What is his legacy if he retires after this year with a Super Bowl win without? I don't think it matters if he wins a Super Bowl or not. I think that he already won one. I think Drew Breeze is probably one of the best five quarterbacks of all time. I don't think it's that complicated of an argument or like of a discussion. I don't. Okay.

So let's go, let's do a top five. Let's do the Mount Rushmore here. Okay. Brady Manning. Brady Manning. Probably Elway. Dan Marino. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl.

Well, I, okay, I'm talking. Is Dan Marino not on your list of great quarterbacks? He is on my list of great quarterbacks. I'd still, I would put Drew Breez ahead of Dan Marino. Okay. I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's correct. Then, then, Rami Marino is five.

Is that, is that a five you're comfortable with? I don't, I don't, I don't think. In whatever order? I don't know. I'm just naming people. I just who are probably ahead of Drew Breeze on my list. So here's what I think.

Why is Dan Marino head of Drew Breeze on your list? Well, because he was a historically great player in relation to the era that he played in. That's fair. Mahomes before Mahomes at a time when they were passing was just not like that. I don't, that's a good argument. And I bet I'm fine with that. I just think that Drew Breeze was also historically. great player, even in the era that he played in, his production was incredible.

No, I'm with you. I'm with you. Hey, hey, listen, no one, no one loves Drew Breeze's production more than me. I think he's a player of his era and would be a great quarterback in any era, but he took advantage of exactly what needed to be taken advantage of in this era. He has some of the greatest stats in the history of the sport, and he is one of the greatest players in this sport. I think he's a top 10 quarterback, and I think he might be at the back of that top 10. Let me ask you a question. If Aaron Rogers never wins another Super Bowl, who had a better career than Aaron Rogers. Okay, okay.

That's, and I had that exact thought to me this morning. I looked at it. I think they're both somewhere in the back of the top ten for me. I think that Drew Bree's had a more impressive career than Aaron Rogers. Aaron Rogers is the most talented quarterback I have ever seen because I did not watch John Elway in his prime. That is a different conversation than who had a better career. I think Drew Breeze did. In his entire time in New Orleans, the Saints have finished outside the,

top 10 in scoring twice. They finished 11th and 12th. They finished third the year that Sean Payton didn't even coach. The guy has been unflinchingly consistent for so, so long. This is a pro Drew Brie's podcast. I just don't think he's top five. Let me ask you a question. Who are the quarterbacks right now who do you think of a chance to be top 10 all

time? Mahomes. Mahomes. I think Wilson has a chance if he just keeps going on like this. Wilson definitely. Wilson definitely. Yeah. I mean,

what he's doing, I mean, he's still relatively young. Yeah, Wilson, if you look at the body of work, I think that, yeah,

absolutely. All right. Would you say that Watson has a chance? Sure. I think he has a chance. I think it's an outside chance, but I think Deshawn Watson is great. Yeah.

All right. We'll figure it out. And I just think with Lamar Jackson's two, it's too. I mean, this is just just, I don't know enough about him, except that he's at the MVP this year.

Yeah. think so too i think he's a fantastically exciting player and this has been really enjoyable i don't know what happens five 10 years from now because i think that's the case with a lot of people he has listen he has as good a chance as most of these guys at having a historically great top 10 career so that is exactly right i just want to see uh more games because lamar jackson is the most exciting player football right no argument here all right dean blankenship asks i i actually like this question a lot because i think it's just a shot at me. What can the Titans do this offseason to make everyone stop saying,

who cares about the Titans? Let me ask you a question. If the Titans won the Super Bowl, if Ryan Tanna Hill just got red hot, if that defense just became the Patriots all of a sudden, would we open up the podcast in that hotel room of Miami wondering if the Titans are good? That's, it's so right.

And I know that that's just my own personal bias. Sometimes, man, it's just the way the uniform looks. And what your expectations are. I know that seems silly, but when teams have been such a thing for so long, it just takes a lot to get excited about them. And I also think that the Titans, the way they've built their front office, their coaching or their coaching staff, and the way they've approached the sport has made them inherently uninteresting. Even if Mike Frable is having some success right now, even if they make the playoffs again, having that sort of head coach and having run a heavy offense is it's hard to be that exciting. And I think that's part of the problem. They have been genuinely fun to watch with Tanna Hill.

Derek Henry is awesome. He's been really, really good. I think A.J. Brown is going to have a nice career. I love his skill set. He's just big body receiver, does great work after the catch. They have some players I like. I think with Jonathan Simmons, Jarrell Casey, Harold Landler, I think, has still has some talent, even though he's been slow to come on.

Cam Wake, their front four is pretty good. Kevin Byard is undeniably fun to watch. She's a really good safety. They have some players. I just, I don't know what the answer is. I just think with their current structure, it's hard to be that exciting or interesting. I think a couple of things.

I think they don't help themselves with their inconsistent results. But I also think that they're just not on prime time a lot because they're not a hugely popular team. So we don't actually sit down and say, and when they do, it's, you know, it's against the Jaguars, right? And so we don't sit down and say,

it's time for some Titans football. So they're sort of always, this is not their fault. This is not their fault. It's not. They are sort of always in the periphery. And so sometimes they beat the chiefs and you're like, that was weird. And sometimes they lose to the Jaguar.

Excuse me, lose to the Panthers. And you're like, hell, that was strange. Like, I just, it's, there's never because, you know, listen, they, they came into existence essentially in our lifetimes. And I, you know, as did the Texans. And I still feel weird about that sometimes just because I was what, we were, what, 14 when they, when they started. Yeah, 14, 2002. Yeah. that's a little late for to get jogged in my brain as an NFL team.

And so at some point, maybe the Titans will become a primetime type of team. And this era of Titans football, let's not, excuse me, let us not forget that the Steve McNair team was hugely popular. And on prime time all the time and obviously got to that Super Bowl. But this era of Titans football,

you know, last decade or so has been in the periphery of things. And that's why all of their, results seem sort of inconsistent and weird. I think it takes a lot to jumpstart yourself out of that Jeff Fisherdom of being a franchise. And for the Rams, it required Sean McVeigh. And that I know we just talked a lot about on the show. But for a year, it was genuinely exciting.

And I'm not making fun of Jeff Fisher in this situation. I just think that Jeff Fisher and the way Jeff Fisher approaches a football team is indicative of another era that's harder for me to get excited about. And I think that they've stuck with that sort of approach for a decently long time. Think about their head coaches. It's guys like Mike Marlarchy. Mike Frable is the definition of an NFL establishment, just kind of do the boring stuff coach. So I do think that they don't, they're not helped out by the league and it's hard for them to get there based on circumstance. But I also think that the way they go about their business is just not that inventive all the time.

It's smart enough. They have relative amounts of success. And again, I do think they've been good with Tana Hill. But even the Tannahill thing, right? I think they should. should ride with Ryan Tannahill next year. It's not that easy to get excited about Ryan Tannahill because there's such an established understanding of who Ryan Tannahill is. So it's, there's a lot of stuff going on. I understand it's a blind spot for me, but again, I don't think it's totally unwarranted. All right, we had a few more, but we're already on an hour here. It's a holiday week. We don't want to keep you guys too long. As always, though, thank you so much for your questions. They were thoughtful and obviously they inspired discussions. So we sincerely appreciate it. We

also sincerely appreciate you listen to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. We'll be back Sunday night. Pepsi takes all NFL celebration to the next level, whether it's a Hail Mary touchdown, a defensive stop on the goal line, or a Super Bowl win. When it's time to celebrate, it's time to crack open a Pepsi. Pepsi, the official sponsor of the NFL reminds you to always be celebrated.