The Ringer NFL Show - Aaron Rodgers’s Last Dance, Rookie Watch, and Mailbag

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

Nora Princiotti and Mallory Rubin kick off the show by taking a deeper look into Aaron Rodgers and his relationship with the Packers and how that will affect their season (5:58). Then they discuss rookies they’re looking forward to watching this week (38:20), and they end the episode answering a couple mailbag questions (51:00). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Mallory Rubin Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Ringer Golf podcast, Fairway Rowland. I am your starter, Joe House. Throughout the golf season, our PGA tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard and myself are bringing you all of the very best takes having to do with the world of golf. That is Fairway Rowland, which you can find on Spotify. Hello and welcome to a brand new edition of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pinciotti and I am here with Mallory Rubin, who is fist pumping and dancing in front of her microphone. Mallory, what up. Oh my goodness, Nora.

What a joy to be here with you. So excited. A joy to be here with you as well. And so we are so excited about this because Mallory and I are going to be on the Ringer NFL feed every Thursday this NFL season. we're doing a new show. We're going to kind of deep dive every week because there's nothing that Mallory and I love more than a deep dive, right? Yeah.

We're here to talk about the MCU and Taylor Swift, right? That's what this podcast is. Yes, that is the premise of this show. Awesome. I'm ready. The synergy with the ringer NFL feed is really, really perfect. And we felt like all of you were going to be ready to listen to it and receive it. So that's great.

No, I'm just kidding. What we are going to do here every Thursday of this season is we're going to take an NFL character, a central figure, somebody who's in the news, somebody who's shaping the direction of the league. Maybe it's a few people sometimes. Maybe it's a specific group. And we're just going to get into it. We're going to get into what's going on. We're going to get into what it means. We're going to have a lot of fun along the way. And then every week, we're going to take some mailbag questions. That's right. We're going to do some news updates. We're going to do a whole bunch of stuff. But we're really excited to get to really be nitty-gritty and

granular with some of these topics and take it in a bunch of different directions, right, Mel? Yeah, I mean, it's a new season. It's a new week. We are here on Thursday morning, and we're mere hours away from kickoff. It's opening day. So much is new. There's so much to explore and discuss. But you know what's lasting? You know what's eternal? Unchanged, fixed. Our love of football and our love of talking about it together. Oh, no. That really put me in, that, that hit me in the heartstrings. You know, Nora, I'm like 18 months deep into not seeing a lot of people.

So it's just great to be here with you. We're just going to hang out. This is going to be our human contact for the week. That's right. It's just obsessing over an NFL personality for like 40 minutes. Yeah. You remember those, you know, most interesting man in the world commercials, the old Dosaki's commercials?

our version of that. You know, most interesting person, place, thing, idea, trend, realm in the multiverse, whatever the case may be of the week. I don't always run past options. But when I do, I run them with Aaron Rogers. Wow. That was beautiful. Scheme talk and a refreshing beverage.

Great work. I'm ready for football officially. Can I tell you something? I don't think I've ever had a Dosecis. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I don't think so.

What's your favorite beverage? Just in general. I mean, no free ads here in the Ringer podcast network. So in the world, my favorite beverage is water. And I know that is the world's most boring answer, but I am the most sparkling. So I like both, but I am the world's most notorious consumer of water that I know. It is a little out of control. I drink. What a thing to say. Tom Brady levels of water, honestly. And I could not live without it. How do you feel about strawberries and avocados? I feel good about them. Yeah. But so I feel good about both of them is the thing because Brady, avocado enthusiast, strawberry hater. I'm, if I had to pick one, I would be on Tom's side. Avocados are a bigger part of my life than strawberries. But I actually, my family has a tradition where everybody has a napkin ring. That's

at my grandparents' house and when we have like a holiday or whatever, we use those napkin rings and they each have a little image on them, engraving on them that has something to do with them. Mine is a wild strawberry blossom. My birthday is June 27th and wild strawberries are always in bloom. Or on my birthday. So how immensely charming. Oh my goodness. What an insight into your life, your family, your routine. You know, we're all pretty familiar at this point with the TB12 diet, but I'm looking forward to hearing more about your water consumption and the NP12 throughout this season. One more reason for our listeners to tune in. How many liters of water has Nora consumed every week? So I actually don't have water next to me right now, which is really throwing me for a loop.

But as we do these and we're on zoom together right now, you're just going to see, it's going to get out of control. Oh, Mallory's got a big bottle of water. All right, we're hydrated. Let's go. Mal and I are going to be here on the feed on Thursdays this season. And then tomorrow and every Friday, Ben Solac, Stephen Ruiz and Kalin Jones, they're going to be previewing the whole NFL slate that's coming Sunday. And then on Sunday, I will be back with Kevin Clark, Solac and Ruiz again. And we're going to break down everything that we get to watch. We're going to do it this week and week one.

We're so excited. But then we're going to keep at it through the entire season, through the playoffs. That's all going to be awesome. Super excited to be on the feed this year. super excited to break everything down with those guys. But today we have some pressing business to attend to, because we are here first and foremost to talk about Aaron Rogers, who I will posit to you, Mallory,

is under more pressure this NFL season, as is his team, the Green Bay Packers, than almost anybody else in football that I can think of. The Packers are entering their last dance. They are. and part of what makes it so riveting for us as football consumers is that they know it and they're leaning in. This is a part of almost every quote, every press conference. We had Aaron Rogers and Devante Adams and Michael Jordan Scottie Pippen this offseason.

There's so much to talk about looking ahead, not only for week one in the opening note, the opening tone that Rogers and the Packers can set for this season, but for the stakes for what's on the line this year based on where the reworked contract netted out, the cap situation this year, everything. And then of course there's so much to look back at from this very rich, nuanced and surreal offseason

to... Is a rich text? It is a very rich text. I mean, this is a tome, a football tome. Can't wait to talk about this all. There is a lot happening in the NFL right now that is gripping and grabs our interests, but I think we pretty much came to instant agreement that Aaron Rogers was the most fascinating figure in football for us entering week one.

I'm now picturing like the library of Congress plunked in the middle of Lambeau Field. I don't know. You know, Rogers is a big Thrones fan. So I'm seeing, I'm seeing Sam entering the Citadel. Tomes all around him. New texts to thumb through and explore. What ancient knowledge. Mighty on earth.

And share with the masses. Scrolls being unveiled. That's right. But okay. For this season, yes. Here's what I think we've got. The Packers basically have solved the most difficult problem in professional football, maybe largely in all of sports, right?

They have a homegrown quarterback who plays at an MVP level. they drafted him, they developed him, just having him gives them a chance to win the Super Bowl every year. Yes. But Aaron Rogers is unhappy and Green Bay is looking ahead and they've got this season either to fix things with him or because of the way that his contract got restructured. Right.

They go into 2022 dead last in the NFL and salary cap space. They're currently $40 million in the red. They've got a star receiver in Devante Adams who just recently, said that there is no chance they'll get a contract extension done with him before this season. So he'll head into the season set to hit free agency. Right. They have a great coach in Matt Lafleur who's installed the Shanahan style system that thrives

when a quarterback like Rogers can both be supported by it but can transcend it. But he might walk out the door and leave them either to rely on Jordan Love, the quarterback they drafted or to have their championship window close prematurely. I can't really think of higher stakes for any team in the league this year. Can you? I mean, certainly at the top of the list, and that is enhanced by the fact that they have a very real shot at seeing that through. Like, if you had the, oh, the end is near, the window is closing, this seems untenable.

narrative, and we in the media always like to talk about narratives, right? Hanging over. So juicy. Looming over the entire season, but the team in place was not capable of actually contending for the Lombardi Trophy. That would be one thing. That's not the case. This is one of the five best teams in football.

I think the NFC contender list is not short, but at least right now on the eve of play. Tampa Bay and Green Bay, I think, have the best chance of any NFC team of reaching a Super Bowl. And if this is Green Bay, Kansas City, obviously I would love for it to be Green Bay, Baltimore. But if it's Green Bay, Kansas City, who had eight minutes for the first Ravens mention of the pod? Honestly, I think anyone would have taken the under. So we had a production meeting a couple days ago where Mallory was like, I'm not going to talk about the Ravens. I'm not going to talk about the Ravens. Don't ask me about the Ravens. I don't know the Ravens. I've never heard of eight minutes. Eight minutes. You made it eight minutes. Very tough. I, it's very tough. But the fact

that they have such a, not only outstanding squad, but so much continuity from last season into this season. And there are a few areas where that's not the case. I'm sure when we talk a little bit more about the opening matchup and the beginning of the season. We'll talk about some of the question marks on the line, etc. But this is a team that's capable of actually winning. And so when you talk about the window, you talk about the narrative, you run through everything that Rogers or the front office have said all off season. The fact that it is achievable, a real tangible goal heightens all of this and has us,

as fans sitting here saying we might be embarking on a great sports story. Like, not to be too reductive about it, but we're all only a little while away from one of the great shared viewing experiences that sports fans have had in recent years, which was watching The Last Dance Doc, right? And one of the things that was so meaty and juicy about the Rogers Adams' Instagram action from the offseason is that they know that. They know that Last Dance is pretty fresh in people's minds. Like, this is not a subtle reference. We are certainly not the first people to say are the Packers heading into the last dance. This has been a storyline all off season. And frankly, was even before the reworked contract locked and Rogers had such a candid,

really like rare level of access and reflection and introspection that he shared in his press conference with media. So there's just so much to parse and so much that we both know and don't know, like so much that people glean and assume, but then also so much that has been literalized by the key participants. And to your point about stakes, it just heightens all of the stakes in a way that really feels like we might be looking back at this season in a decade or two and saying we got to witness something historic. So on the eve of that, how can we not celebrate the fact that we might get to watch that in real time? What a joy. That gives me chills. That gives me chills. That gives me

chills. Now my spine. I think we do need to go back a little bit though. Yes. Because to your point, Aaron Rogers is one of the best manipulators of narrative and NFL consuming consciousness that we have. And there's no better time to do that than the off season. Right. Because there's not a lot going on. Everybody's thirsty for content. And in swoops Rogers, who's able to create a frenzy just by appearing in Miles Teller's Instagram. Right. Hawaii seems lovely. Let me say that based on

based on the Aaron Rogers, Shailene Woodley, Miles Teller, uh, couples retreat. Seems like a beautiful place to spend some time. Waterfall hikes. Yeah. I'd like to hike by a waterfall. Same. Maybe someday now.

Nora, let's book it for next off season. That'd be great. We can do a live pod. Everybody can come along. I don't know why you guys. Nora, we both watch enough Bachelor in Paradise to know that recording by running water. Bad idea. The mics just pick up too much. You can't hear anything. That's very fair. All right. Well, once microphone technology improves, we're going to do a live show in Hawaii,

everybody, and you're all going to come along and it's going to be great. I promise this is not an not an empty promise. But, okay, sounds like we might have one with the Hawaii vacation. But I'm curious if you can kind of do a spontaneous ranking of you remember where you were moments. in Aaron Rogers' off season. Because I know I have a couple. Boy, what a great question. Spontaneity. The least favorite thing.

Let's see. I have a few to come to mind. One would be, of course, the instantly infamous Schefter draft report that Aaron Rogers was so unhappy that he wanted out of Green Bay. That was

quite a time to be, a part of the football world. Another would be just the general Rogers Shalene of it all all off season, which on the one hand,

he's not really germane to anything that happens with his football future, but is a part of his celebrity and a part of the way that he interacts with the world. And I think that is relevant because this will be

a very obvious and not particularly insightful thing to say, but here we go. Aaron Rogers is really famous. Aaron Rogers is one of the most famous, relevant people in sports. And so everything he does draws attention. Everywhere he is, everyone he's with, everything he says, or just as crucially, doesn't say, leads to some sort of effort to sift for clues. the fact that then he was

later, you know, the trade rumors sparked up. But the other thing that we, of course, we'll talk about is that he was considering retirement and was one of the guest hosts in the Jeopardy rotation, spoke very openly about how he really wanted to become the host of Jeopardy. There was all of the stuff happening

both within the Packers' front office and franchise and in the wider tapestry of who Aaron Rogers is as a person, the things that are interesting to him and the way that he wants to spend his time that lent a credence to all of this. And then, of course, I would say the other one is just agreeing to the reworked terms of the deal and then the press conference, where he spoke to the media in such length and depth about everything that was on his mind. So that's my list. What about yours? Okay. So I'm really glad you went to Shalene with the first one. Because I think where we have to start with this is his MVP acceptance.

speech where he's in the middle of talking about his season and all of a sudden drops my fiance. Just a legendary moment. Yeah. Out of the blue, we're all scrambling. What? Did he say what? Did he?

What? Aaron Rogers? Excuse me? And I think, look, I mean, is that on my list of remember where you were Aaron Rogers' 2020, 2021 moments? Mainly because it was just sort of a splash. Sure. But I think the point there is that when we talk about this,

and we're certainly going to talk about, okay, how much does it matter that they don't have Corey Lindley anymore? And David Bactiari's hurt and getting older. Two rookies on the offensive line in week one. And looking even further forward, they're going to have to figure out the cap. And, you know,

if Adams is going to be there long term, there's all these football questions. That's a big part of the puzzle. but this is Aaron Rogers we're talking about, you know, to borrow from Mark Murphy what he said over the summer, he's a complicated fella as we all are, but maybe Aaron Rogers in particular. I don't think that we can ignore the place he is in his life.

Right. Right. Impacting all of this. Because sometimes, I think a lot of the time, these questions are a little bit overstated when we talk about the league because players don't necessarily, they don't necessarily live in the communities that they play in year round. a lot of them, you know, money is a huge factor in the career moves that players make.

They don't always have all this control. Rogers is in a different situation than that. I think it's very, very, very reasonable to consider, okay, he's getting married. He might want to live not in Green Bay, Wisconsin all the time. He's factoring in another person into his life in a different way. and he's just thinking really long and hard about how he wants to spend his time. And I think that should take us to the press conference. But I do want to share with you.

I guess my third remember where you were moment, which was this morning when I stumbled across. Maybe you saw this. Over the summer, he did an interview with Oat Living magazine where he talked about time as a social construct while promoting. voting watches. Love this. So again, this is the place where Aaron Rogers is. Yeah. Just Aaron Rogers. Come on, ringer verse.

You'd be epic. Oh, my God. One of my favorite turns of phrase from Rogers this off season was when he referred to his future as a quote, beautiful mystery. Like, again, this is just deeply compelling. And aren't they all? Aren't all of our future is a beautiful mystery. Life is a beautiful mystery, you know? Tap right into that existential dread that we all share. I love it. I love it. I think that was a different press conference than the one at the beginning of training camp. But let's go there for a second. Because at the beginning of camp, all this intrigue, at the 11th hour, Roger is on a private plane from California to Green Bay. He touches down, goes straight to the facility. He is wearing the office t-shirt. it's got Kevin and the chili.

Kevin, you know, in that episode, Kevin screws everything up in the office. He makes a huge mess in the office, right? Kevin Malone, the character, played by the actor Brian Baumgartner. Brian, the same name as Brian Gutakunst, the Packers general manager. This is deeply meta.

Like, this is the plane. Aaron Rogers is on, I guess literally and figuratively, as he returns to Green Bay. and then he steps up to a podium and just does something that is both very simple and very remarkable, which was just he told the truth for like half an hour and actually said how he felt, which is not something that happens in professional sports all that often. And that for me, I mean, I was clutching my remote control the entire time,

just watching it, going back and forth between NFL network and ESPN being like, do not go to commercial. Aaron Rogers is in the zone. Yeah, I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen that to do a little Googling and check it out. It is pretty remarkable. I mean, I think that Aaron Rogers has always been a really, like, interesting mix of KG and Candid. You know, he knows what he wants to say when and how and isn't going to be like worked in a conversation. You have a sense always with Aaron Rogers that he knows what he wants to convey.

And so I don't think it would be accurate to say that it was like rare for him to be forthright because he often is. But just the extent of what was on offer, like the level of specificity and insight that he provided about his own thinking, what had gotten him to that point, what was on his mind about the future, about the past. and the detail, just the detail that he was willing to share about his life and his thought process about the respect and involvement that he wanted and the way that all of that was going to influence the decisions that he made. You know, he talked a lot about his desire for more decision-making power. he certainly went out of his way to express gratitude and to talk about how much he loved the team and love the city and wanted to be there. He's said many times both this offseason and over his career that he wants to finish his career as a Packer. Like I don't, I don't perceive really anything that Aaron Rogers has said or done as like menacing.

I think to your point, he's just being real. Like he's just showing us and sharing with us. how he's actually assessing what transpires every day of his life with the team that he plays for and what that might mean for the decisions that he makes in the future. That is the part that feels rare. The level of access that we have to how a player at all, but certainly a player of that stature, is interacting with the front office of the team that he plays for and how he is processing and thinking about what that means for his relationship with his teammates,

the fans, his future, etc. It's just riveting, like utterly gripping. I think that every single Aaron Rogers press conference, I mean, Aaron Rogers is always appointment TV when he's playing football, every single thing he says all season long will be appointment viewing two, appointment listening to because maybe there will be a shift in season where we go back into a like, we'll talk about that in the off season. Like we're focused on football now. That's definitely possible, maybe even probable. But I think that Aaron Rogers is in this zone and this mode where he's like, why wouldn't I say

exactly what is on my mind? Why would I not explain that I believe I have earned the ability to participate in the decision-making apparatus of this organization? You know, he talked about how he felt about veteran contributors and players who he felt the Packers were wrong to let go in the past or had lowballed. You know, he cited a lot of specific players. He mentioned James Jones. Charles Woodson. Yeah, Jordy Nelson, Clay Matthews, Julius Peppers.

Michael Hyde on and on the list when, of course, Jake Comerow has taken on like a mythical status in all of this in terms of how Rogers felt about that. The nicest man in football. like free agent decision making and again I would encourage everyone like ESPN has a full transcript of the pressure that you can read I would encourage everyone to just go to the text and assess the text in full but he's in essence it boils down to look at what I've achieved why why wouldn't I be able to be a part of this decision making process here and why are the insights that I have not being taken more seriously right right and so I think that's where we

we spin it back to 2021 and the beautiful mystery of the future. Because I think a lot of what Rogers was getting at is something that a lot of players, or at least star players in the NFL, are thinking about in terms of their own futures. Because we've had a lot of conversations recently about, you know, whether we're sort of entering a player empowerment era. And in football particularly, because the contracts are structured in a way, which is incredibly team friendly, it's a complicated mix

because I think what players like Rogers, like Tom Brady, the guys who are of that level, I do not think that this is something that is available to the rank and file membership of the NFL. But to those star players, I think what they're finding is that what they have at their disposal in terms of power that they can leverage

to get what they want out of an organization, it has a lot to do with their celebrity. It has a lot to do with their ability to just kind of create a stir in the media and in the public. But what they can buy with that leverage is not necessarily full decision-making power. Like I think we use Brady right now as a model and forget sometimes that he had to really wait it out. And what Rogers was able to do was get the restructured contract that makes it more likely that he can leave and have some control over that next offseason. it is not as though, you know, the version of the banana boat for the NFL is not you can snap your fingers and get all those guys on a team together just because you're a star and because

you want to. It is you wait out your contract and maybe you use your leverage as a star so that you don't have to wait quite as long. But Rogers in that press conference was asked if he would be a Packer next year and what it would take for him to be able to stay. And his answer was, I really don't know. I think things in that direction haven't really changed at all. So it still feels like that's the direction, at least to me, feels like that's the direction

that this is headed in. You know, Brady is in a lot of ways a model here because he did have to wait for it. But then he left the nest. Do you think that is what will actually happen with Rogers as well? Oh, boy. Okay. So so many things to. follow up and I'm parsed there.

One of the things from that press conference that I found really interesting was that Aaron Rogers talked about how he didn't want to be a lame duck quarterback. Perfectly reasonable. One of the wrinkles of the amended

contract, which of course on the one hand solidified that he would in fact be with the team this season would be playing. You know, this was after there was the holdout earlier in the off season, right? But because the, the amended terms, like, avoided the, two thousand thirty aspect of the deal, it simultaneously put more of the control and

leverage back in Aaron Rogers' hands and, like, literalized. I mean, when we think about, what is a, what does lame duck mean? It's like, you're, you're in the last year of a thing. But it feels that way and it doesn't all at once because even though in the NFL and in professional sports, the teams and the mega franchises exert a level of power that is irrefutable. The way that the Rogers storyline unfolded all off season netted out in this place where I think we all feel like he is the one who's going to get to make the call about how he wants to spend his story. future, right? So to your point about empowerment and the way that that he reflects and represents that, that feels like really notable right now with his season. You know, some of the things that he said in that press conference, like, again, it's quite reasonable. You know, he's like, quote,

I just want to be involved in conversations that affect my ability to do my job. He's not saying I want to oust the current regime and build my own. I don't know that he would mind. Again, Aaron Rogers loves Game of Thrones. The Brady point that you made is an interesting one because I think you're completely right. And there's a undeniable logic in the way that you outline that. I also think that Aaron Rogers, and listen, I'm not Aaron Rogers and I'm not in Aaron Rogers's head. So I can't say for sure and I obviously don't know. My instinct is that Aaron Rogers' response to that would be, well, I've spent my time.

I'm already two. You know, Aaron Rogers is 37. Like Aaron Rogers has won a championship. Aaron Rogers has won multiple MVPs. I think Aaron Rogers is looking at this and saying, what would I be waiting for now? What waiting is their left to do? And so when you then take all of that in full, and there are, there are positives too. Like, he seemed very happy that the team brought Randall Cobb back.

This was an important thing to him. And it happened. They've been reunited. Nice to have a friend. I love friendship. It's beautiful. That's great. When you assess and examine, again, I think, just the way that everybody on the team,

not just Rogers is talking about this season, it's like this inescapable last dance of it all. Like just, you know, you mentioned Adams' comments this week about the contract extension talks. It's not going to happen. He's obviously going to be pursuing top dollar at the wide receiver position as he should. And one of the things that he said in that in that presser, this was Wednesday of this week, I believe.

And this is according to pro football talk was, quote, kind of how I look at it and how we started to look at it as a team is like it really is the last dance for having this type of group here. Again, that's Adams. That's not a Rogers quote. Well, I believe there's also been reporting from pro football talk or they might have aggregated. I wish I knew that more specifically. I will find out.

I can tweet it or something. He has referred to Goudicunds as Jerry Krause. He isn't like everybody is in on the joke, right? Like everybody is is accepting the meta narrative here. Again, I don't think we can say out loud enough that Aaron Roderson, Devont Adams posted Instagrams of Michael Jordan and Scotty Pittman. Like that's, that's pretty overt. That's not subtext.

That is concrete text. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. So like what's going to happen when we look ahead? I mean, this is not to duck the question, but I think the reason that I'm so interested in this and this was the thing we want to talk about for week one is because we don't know and it will be so exciting to tune in every week to find out.

Like I can't really see Aaron Rogers in another jersey. You know, and in part, that's because his entire career has been with the Packers. He is inextricable from Green Bay in our modern memory and consciousness as football consumers. You know, he's talked a lot over the years again about how he wants to finish his career as a Packer. But the thing is, like, I would have said the exact same thing about Tom Brady. I would have said, I could never see Tom Brady in another uniform. And then he went, put on another uniform and won a Super Bowl, right? I would have said the same thing about Peyton Manning.

Now, obviously, that was, you know, with the injury, that was like a very different circumstance. but Peyton Manning and the Colts were won. And then Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl with the Broncos. Like we have plenty of precedent of saying, oh my God, this player would never leave this team. Can't happen. It's not possible. It's not a reasonable thing to ask or expect.

And then it happens. So you can't roll it out. But the other thing that I think is always, worth holding on to with Rogers this season is, will he be playing football after this? Does he want to be playing football after this? You know, he's talked about and shared again, very candid reflections on how he thought about retirement this off season, how he just thought about life off the field, but also how he has that fire still to go and play.

If they win a title, does he then have that piece to just walk away and say, I did it. I ended this completely on my own terms. You know, there's always an urgency in the NFL, always. There's always a window. Like outside of those extremely supremely rare moments in situations with the type of player who is so gifted, so special that they just transcend the norm of what is possible. And Aaron Rogers has been one of those players.

It's an all-time great. And that window only feels real and present, like finally at last right now, because they have made it so. And that is just so fascinating to me. My official prediction, which I am sure will be wrong, first of many incorrect predictions here on our Thursday Ringer NFL show this season, Speak for yourself, Mal. Yeah, you'll be, you'll be just, you know, flawless all season long. And I'll just be whiffing week after week. I really think he's going to do it.

I think they are going to win. This is a strong, strong team. And I just feel that intangible essence of something special and historic. and maybe it's just because that's what I want. It would be so cool to watch. And you could see Aaron Rogers winning. And then, you know, I think Solac had this in his predictions, like flip the bird and walk away.

But also, you can see I'm doing this with total grace and gratitude and any number of possibilities in between because Aaron Rogers, in addition to being a Hall of Famer, has always been, and I mean this in the most flattering way possible, like a character. A character. in the sport. And I think that that will manifest in myriad thrilling ways this season.

I can't wait to watch. What do you think is going to happen? The future is a beautiful mystery. Mallory thinks it includes a title in Green Bay. My prediction is that he's done. One way or another, whether they win or not, I think that this is his last season in Green Bay. I think if they win the Super Bowl, which I wouldn't predict,

but I think is possible. I think that he would genuinely strongly contemplate retirement in a way that is even stronger than he has in the past because of what you said about, you know, the ability to really do this on his own terms. If they do not win, I think he will want another challenge and want a chance to see what it's like somewhere else. And we'll follow the Brady example and try to go do it. And I think he would have a really genuine chance of winning in a place like Denver. I think, you know, has been held up as the best example. I think it remains the best example. My dark horse, I would absolutely love it if Brady retired.

And then Rogers just slid in in Tampa. That would be it going. They just cycle through like iconic quarterbacks who want to change the scenery. That would be incredible. So that's Aaron Rogers. I'm so excited to watch this all unfold this season. I love that idea of like the NFL pro comp of Oklahoma, just year after year, transfer quarterback wins the Heisman. Transfer quarterback wins the Heisman. That would be great.

That's incredible. That's incredible. I'm going to call Jason Light. You're like, hey, you guys are Oklahoma now. We're lucky to have Aaron Rogers to talk about. Hopefully we will have Aaron Rogers to talk about for a long time in the future. He's a gift. He is a gift. Luckily, though, we have some new, younger, you know, fresh quarterbacks, other players who we will get to talk about this season and beyond. So we're going to do a little rookie watch for week one here. And I'm just going to go rapid to you, Mallory. What rookie players will you be watching this week in the NFL action?

Great question. I love college football. I love the draft. And so I'm always so excited to see the rookie class debut. This was hard to pick because there are so many. tantalizing debuts on the horizon this week. Hilariously, neither of us are picking Trevor Lawrence number one pick in the draft,

but the vibes are bad. I think we could just, you know, we can safely say we'll be talking about Trev in future weeks. So, Trev, fear not. Herb. I have, I have my pick, and then I have two runners-up. that I just feel compelled to also mention. But we'll start with my actual pick.

Okay. Also, actually, before I start with my actual pick, this is just so on brand here, tangent within tangent, unbelievable. I wish, I wish deeply that I could sit here with you entering week one and pick Rashad Bateman for my week one rookie watch. My guy, Raven's top draft pick, star receiver in the making. but alas, starting the season on injured reserve won't be playing on Monday night. But can't wait for his eventual debut.

My pick, in Eagles Falcons, 10 a.m. Pacific. Fox. We will get to see two of the top pass catchers in this draft class debut on the same field in the same game. Devonta Smith with the Eagles and Kyle Pitts with the Falcons. I love it. Cannot wait to watch these guys in their NFL debuts. Two of my favorite players in college football. Two of my favorite players in the draft. Falcons obviously selected pits out of Florida, fourth overall, tight end, but first

pass catcher off the board in the draft. Eagles took Smith, out of Alabama, 10th. after Pitts, after Chase, who went fifth to the Bengals, after Waddle, who went sixth to Miami, they're linked these players for so many reasons, right? They're linked because of their draft class. They're linked because they're past catchers. They're linked because of their SEC careers, you know, Florida, Alabama. It's just really fun and cool to get to see them debut on the same field.

I am very, very, very eager as I think probably every football fan is to see Pitts. He did not get a lot of snaps, intentionally so, deliberately so, in preseason games. But, you know, he is a generational talent. And I feel sure, perhaps the second incorrect prediction of the pod for me. We'll see. I feel sure that the Falcons are going to unleash him right away in the opener. You know, Arthur Smith and Atlanta know what they have in Pitts. And a player like Pitts.

I mean, he's a gift for anyone, but for a play caller like Smith, it has the potential to be revelatory. and Pitts and Calvin Ridley on the same basing offense. This is like the definition of must watch football. Fun little wrinkle. Philly's new QB coach, Brian Johnson. He coached Pitts at Florida. Yeah. So the Eagles have a little, you know, inside and tell.

I'm really curious to see how they defend him in his debut. Devonta, meanwhile. You know, other than two, probably the favorite player of our cherished colleague, Ben Glickman. Coming off a historic final season at Alabama, first wide receiver to win the Heisman since Desmond Howard and in 91. I mean, there was nothing that he could not do on the field last year, 98 receptions, 17 touchdowns. Some injury worries, of course. You know, there was a lot of talk around the draft, especially with a pass catching group that loaded at the top of the draft about his frame, his size, his ability to stay healthy in the NFL.

you know, he had an MCL issue in camp, really hoping that he's healthy and that he can stay healthy. And I'm hoping that he and Jalen Hertz can instantly find that spark right away. Because remember, of course, they played together in college. They played together at Alabama before Hertz transferred to Oklahoma. So seeing the Slim Reaper out there, hopefully healthy, ready to roll, seeing him in Hertz, find that harmony together right away. This is like exactly what the Eagles needed, a playmaking wizard at wider.

So this is this is my pick here for rookie watch. What about you? That's exciting. I love the Pitts focus in particular. I mean, I think offensive rookie of the year, it's most likely going to be a quarterback. But if you wanted to pick a pass catcher, Pitts would be my dark horse for that just because like you said, I think they will really, really use him creatively and effectively in Atlanta with Arthur Smith.

My pick, and you didn't want to talk about the Ravens, I will, I'm just going to lean in and like fully talk about the Patriots. Back Jones. it's Mac Jones. Mac Jones against the Dolphins. Look, we have the future, you know, the future in New England. He is starting week one. He has won the job.

Cam Newton is not there anymore. I think he's in a really interesting spot because Mac Jones is the type of quarterback who is always going to look awesome against bad defenses, right? And you know what plays in the preseason? A lot of bad defenses. Mac Jones looked great. PFF charted him as having the best rookie preseason since Patrick Mahomes. Now, heard of him.

Heard of that guy. We have a chance to see him go up against a very good and very well-coached defense in Miami under Brian Flores, who knows the Patriots very well. He doesn't necessarily know, no Mac Jones specifically as well, but he knows what they like to do there. And I think it's going to be really fascinating because just having practiced in training camp against the Patriots. defense, which like Miami, they play a lot of man coverage, they're versatile and they move guys around on the front. He might have some familiarity there, but we're going to see what Mack Jones looks like when things speed up and things get real. And I think that's going to be a really, really interesting sort of jumping off point for how we look at the Mac Jones pick in general,

because it was kind of the outlier in the drafts, right, of the first round quarterbacks, Mac being the one who is less athletic, less of a dual threat guy, less mobile. I think there is a chance that we are, first of all, slightly underrating his athleticism. Mac Jones is not as good of an athlete as any other of the quarterbacks that went in the first round this year. He is also a better athlete than, you know, just to pick a name out of a hat, Tom Brady. Mac Jones is capable. He ran a 4-8.

It's not amazing. It's not just in Fields. It's also not abysmal. Like he can move outside the pocket once in a while. He did it during the preseason. So I think there might be some eye-opening stuff there. On the other side of it, it's possible that if he is good enough to just diagnose coverages,

look at a defense, nowhere to go with the ball, accurate, decisive, we could at least have an example where the pendulum doesn't necessarily swing all the way back. If I were starting a football team right now, I would want a dual threat quarterback. But I do think that to a degree, we've watched guys like Mahomes be so, so, so special. And the cliche, it's a copycat league tends to be true. We learn those lessons really, really, really strongly. Right? And sometimes we learn them a little bit too strongly and decide all of a sudden there's only one way to win.

So I'm very curious to see Mack Jones go up against stronger defenses this regular season, starting in week one against Miami, and kind of get another data point towards where that pendulum really should be in the NFL. And it won't just be Mac, who we learn that from, but I think he's a really good example. So I'm excited to watch. A lot of good rookie action. There really is. Can I give you my two runners up? I have to. I love it.

I have to throw these out. I'm cheating. because we were only supposed to pick one. It's okay. She does much as you want. Zach Wilson. Jets QB. Yeah.

Debuing against former Jets QB, Sam Darnold, and the Panthers. Obviously, just eager to see Wilson debut in general and also maybe even more than I'm eager to watch Wilson and the Jets. I'm eager to watch my Jets fan friends watch Wilson and the Jets. You know? Can't wait. to just pepper shot fantasy with texts constantly during the Jets game. But that added variable of Wilson debuting against Darnold, the QB, the Jets moved on from in order to begin the Wilson era.

It's just, this is just, this is delicious. And you know how we know that it's a big deal? It's because everyone keeps talking about how it's not a big deal. Like if you just Google Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, the headlines are so funny pro football. Jack Wilson, colon, facing Sam Darnold, quote, definitely not something I think about. Incredible. ESPN. Yeah, sure, Jan.

Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold insists New York Jets, Carolina Panthers Opener not about out dueling each other. Okay. So that's just wonderful. I can't wait for that. And then I got to throw out one more. And this was already in my, you know, my top three here. But literally as we were sitting down to record this morning. I saw that Jbar Chase was trending on Twitter, which only heightens this.

Oh, no. Chase's debut with the Bengals. A couple reasons. He was my favorite receiver in the draft. Obviously, he sat out last season, so I'm just very excited to see him out on the field playing football again. Of course, I cannot wait to see him reunite with his LSU teammate, Joe Burrow. Burrow, obviously, not a rookie, but if I can, like, smuggle some sophomore sneak peeks into

our rookie watch. Can't wait to see Burrow back again, of course. Chase had nearly 1,800 yards and 20 touchdowns as the Boletnikov winner a couple seasons ago when he was playing with Burrow. So I'm just like exhilarated at the prospect that they're reunited and get to play together again. Obviously the key ultimately is going to be whether the Bengals can protect and keep her healthy.

But the Bengals have a really, really, really promising talented young receiving corps and that I think could be a very special group very quickly. Drops have been an issue for. chase. Mm-hmm. This off season, this preseason. Hang on to the ball, buddy. He has spoken about this very openly.

He has talked about just needing to get acclimated, needing to get comfortable. When I clicked on the trending topic this morning on Twitter, and again, this was like as we were sitting down to record, so candidly, I've not had time to really explore this in depth. It seemed from a quick glance that he was talking about how the difference in the ball, the absence of the white stripes from the college ball to the pro ball was. a part of this. So hope that Jemar Chase can hold on to the ball,

get some good looks in the opener, looks them in, brings him in, and has a strong debut because I think he is really, really, really awesome and such a delight to watch. And I would love very quickly for people to start talking about how amazingly gifted he is and what a fun young offense this is and to stop asking him about the passes that he can't catch. So that's on my list as well.

I'm seeing a headline on something about like how a tiger gets his stripes or stripe or lack there. Like we'll workshop it. All right. That was Ricky Watch. We're going to finish things up with a mailbag. We're going to go kind of rapid fire through these. We've got one from MJ Masterson, most likely matchup in week one to also be a playoff game. I'll kick things off here.

I think the right answer is Brown's Chiefs. That's my pick too. Could be the AFC championship game. That's what you got? Yes. That's my pick too. I think it's the safest and the easiest pick and clearly the pick. There's some other contenders,

but I'm not surprised that we both went with Cleveland, Kansas City here. Yeah, I think Packers Saints is the other one, but I wanted to come up with something that was just a little bit spicier. And this isn't a playoff matchup unless it's a Super Bowl matchup, which I'm just not ready to predict this for these franchises, but a matchup between two playoff teams. I can't wait to hear this. Football team chargers.

Oh, my goodness. Wow. Great test for Justin. That is bold. That is bold. I'm going to bring the takes, you know? Wow. Okay.

I mean, I'm out here saying just, you know, a matchup of the 2020 AFC divisional game with Cleveland, Kansas City. And you're saying football team chargers. Goodness. I, listen, love to be bold. So I support you. I support you. And you're ambitious, ambitious prognosticating here. I will err on the side of predictability and caution, you know?

The future is a beautiful mystery. Dallas, Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh Buffalo in that consideration set as well, by the way, I think. Yeah, I think that's fair. That's very fair. All right. Brett's question. What are your biggest what if alternate universes in the NFL? This is an MCU question.

Hell yeah. Love it. What if currently airing on Disney Plus? Zombie Avengers. No free advertising. Wonderful stuff. Hey, we'll plug for the ring reverse here, you know. If you want your what-if breakdowns, listen to the midnight voice, pew, pew,

on Wednesdays with their instant reaction and then head back on Fridays for more. Okay. This is, this is, this is the one that I couldn't help but pick. Every other scenario I considered, I ultimately went back to this one. I'll say for a long time for the last few years, my NFL what if? was what if Chicago had drafted Pat Mahomes, Patrick Mahomes. Excuse me. But apologies to mom Mahomes.

Exactly. Forgive me, please. But I, no one is Patrick Mahomes, of course, but I am such a Justin Fields fan that I am, I'm now just all in on the future is bright for Chicago. So I'm retiring that, that what if take for a little while. And I'm going with, what if, this one's name. near and dear to your heart, Nora. Wow.

Tom Brady, ever heard of them, had stayed with the Patriots instead of joining the Bucks. Because here are just a few, just a few of the ripple effects from that. Evil Dr. Strange eliminates an entire, okay, sorry, no, I'm confusing my what-ifs now. The Bucks would not have won last season's Super Bowl. Patrick Mahomes wins another Super Bowl ushering in a potentially historic title streak or to go back to our most interesting person in football

from today's show. Oh, wow. Aaron Rogers wins the Super Bowl last year in his MVP season and everything about this offseason, everything about this last dance. is either heightened or completely irrelevant. Who knows, that's one of the exciting things about these all histories and timelines.

The Bucks would not be title favorites this year. The Pats would not have brought in Cam Newton. They would then not have drafted Mac Jones, released Cam and decided to start Mac Jones, your rookie watch pick, of course. Leonard for Net would never have become a buck and reignited so much, dare I say, inspiringly passionate Lenny Centric talk on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show.

Make that a part of your weekly listening if it isn't already, everyone. What a plug. Gronk never plays in Florida. One of his natural habitats, I think we could agree. That was something that we all deserved. I'm glad we got it. Either Brady has one fewer title or, nauseatingly, the Patriots could potentially have one more. makes me shudder to even think about.

We would never have gotten to talk about the Tampa Bay trademark. And then where would we be? As a football viewing public. Aaron Rogers. To bring it back to Aaron Rogers once more. Maybe because of the Brady precedent that you cited and ran through earlier, who knows, but maybe would just be thinking about his football future and the possibilities and decisions differently in terms of that prospect of wrapping

his career with another team. the AFC East would still be all about this Brady-Belichick first division and not the central focus would not be as fully at least. Obviously we would also be talking about, you know, Josh Allen, but it would not be as fully a division oriented around a youth QB movement with Josh Allen and Tua and Zach Wilson and Mack Jones. And then, you know, Hank would bite Tom Brady in the neck and the Avengers would become zombies. Wow, Mel, that was a, that was, I mean, speaking of a rich text, that was a beautiful narrative you just spun. All right. Mine is recent. What if Matthew Stafford and Kelly Stafford didn't decide to go to Cabo?

Oh, wow. They go to Cabo this offseason. Who happens to be there? But Sean McVeigh. This is a great one. McVey and Stafford. They sit poolside. I like to imagine, you know,

dairies were consumed. They talk about life. They talk about scheme. They talk about football. You know, just your regular Cabo poolside talk. As one does. And McVeigh is convinced that Stafford is the like-minded football-obsessed quarterback that is going to take his Los Angeles Rams franchise

that he has taken to a Super Bowl with Jared Gough. I think, I mean, look, the decline of Jared Goff was sharp and it was spectacular. But let us not forget that the high watermark they set was a Super Bowl appearance there. But he decides that Matthew Stafford is the quarterback that is going to get them over the hump. They come up with a trade package and some of it involves getting Detroit to be willing to take on the cost of Goff and his contract. but they come up with a trade package that sets the quarterback market this offseason exceptionally high. And I think it ushers in this idea that going from good to great, which is what less

need their general manager said as the impetus behind the move, is something that should be in the psyche of a lot of franchises when they're thinking about that position. Right. Kyle Shanahan, before they traded all those picks to go. up to three to be able to get Traylands. He talked about how difficult it is to win if you don't have a, quote, top five quarterback. Right. Now, I don't know about you, Mal, but I remember a few years ago when Kirk Cousins was the talk

of the town, right? And a lot of these guys were getting really big contracts because there was this fear that there just weren't enough solid starters to go around. And college scheme was really clear. heavily influencing how offense was working. And there was this idea that these smart coordinators and good scheme and aggressive play calling could elevate these guys.

And as long as you had the right infrastructure around a solid quarterback, that was the recipe to win. And I think some of these decisions and particularly these coaches, McVeigh and Shanahan in particular, who are some of the minds behind that initial shift, they went to Super Bowls with good quarterbacks,

lost those Super Bowls, and I think have come out a couple years later with the understanding that they do want to go from good to great. And it's a really interesting question to me because then what happens if a lot of teams around the league feel like if you don't have a top, maybe it's not five, but maybe it's top eight. If you don't have a top eight guy,

you're in your rebuilding window. Right. That's actually kind of a dangerous idea for the sport, right? That, that, people would have to figure out how you maintain parity and just good levels of competition if that's the thought. Then you're baseball. If only handball teams are trying to contend, yeah. The horror. I love baseball. But not for that reason. That was so pure. But I wonder if it all happens the same way. If those two guys don't, you know, sit under. under the bright sun and talk it through and decide that it's a move worth making. That's a great one. What if Matthew Stafford never went to Cabo? I honestly, I quibble with one part, which is, I would just contend that the high water

mark for Goff with the Rams was in fact, Goff taking us to his personal golf course at his home and us seeing that it had a sign labeled Goff course. That was really the peak. Honestly, you've punched a gaping, gaping hole in my logic because that is a universal truth and I cannot deny it as much. Now, here's the last one. Matt asks, has anyone dominated hard knocks more? Oh, this is a good place to end.

Yeah, this is the most important question of the day. In the history of the series. I cannot recommend strongly and fervently enough that. anyone listening to this podcast who has not watched Hard Knocks, a season that overall, I thought, was very meh. Check out far and away the highlight not only of this season of Hard Knocks, but one of the highlights in the history of Hard Knocks. Aidan Diggs, Trayvon Diggs's son, who deserves a spinoff immediately.

Obviously, Patrick Mahomes would have to be the co-host. given his recurring bit all series long of confusing Dak Prescott and Patrick Mohomes. Aiden is so precious and animated. He has an absolutely exemplary sneaker game, crushing it with the Air Jordans. Wonderful ice cream order, you know, going all in on the marshmallows as toppings. Yum, yum, yum. He was just a beacon of joy and light. It was a wonder to behold.

And I'm so glad that we got to meet Aiden Diggs on this season of Hard Knocks. What a treasure. Aiden rules. You could tell he's a cornerback son because when he met Dak and he was like, are you Patrick Mahomes? And Doc was like, I'm Doc Prescott. He was like, yes, you are Dak Prescott. Like just such a smooth recovery. I love this kid.

I think he, I mean, he basically egotted, right? Like just that one. moment captured by the HBO cameras. We're done. We'll just, he deserves a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, the whole deal. It did, I absolutely believe that he should have a spinoff. It did make me revisit top hard knocks moments. And I'm just going to bring this up because at the time when this happened, I was not

on a football podcast, so I didn't have an opportunity to talk about it. So I'm going to talk about something that happened in 2018. Go for it. Carl Nassib explaining compound interest to the Brown's defensive line. That was a pantheon, a hard knocks moment. It was one of my favorite. It was just one of the best moments of my life. There is a little bit of bias here because he used one of his examples of a smart financial

decision he's made was that before he met Taylor Swift before a concert. He wanted to buy a Rolex to impress her, but then he decided he shouldn't because using compound interest, he could turn that money into more money down the line. I would also like it not to go unsaid that at one point and the camera angle, I do not think, shows who is doing this. Someone is eating a plate of muscles in their defensive line room while this is going on, which is fascinating to me because, first of all, that just seems like an incredibly strange meal to be prepared in a football cafeteria just because the volume,

like the volume to calorie ratio that these guys are getting from that has to be just incredibly skewed. Mid-afternoon snack? That's a topic for another time. Maybe. I guess so. I guess that's what you, you know,

the new Cleveland Browns. Pretty swank. All right, Mal, this has been really magical. I feel really, my heart is warm having spent this time with you. Mine too.

A delight. We will be back next Thursday and Thursdays beyond. breaking down the most pressing topics and characters and narratives and all that good stuff in the NFL. Ben Solac, Ruiz, and Kalin Jones will be coming up next on this feed. They'll be here tomorrow previewing all the week one games. I will be back on Sunday night with Kevin and Solac and Ruiz to break down all that action. Check out Mallory on the ringerverse feed on Friday as she breaks down the latest episode of What If? We will be back Monday night on Green Room with Danny Hafeits.

right after the Raiders Ravens game to talk about all of that. Thank you to production assistant Isaiah Blakely and to Arjuna Ram Gapal for additional production supervision.