The Ringer NFL Show - Aiyuk Requests a Trade and Ranking the Top 10 Young Cores in the NFL

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

Nora, Steven, and Diante start with Brandon Aiyuk's official request for a trade away from the Niners (2:14). Then they rank the 10 best young cores in the league (18:22). Hosts: Nora Princiotti, Steven Ruiz, and Diante Lee Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Kiera Givens Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck because every episode of The Rewatchables and the Big Picture, now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables, as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving ringer personalities. Search Ringer movies on YouTube and Experience the Joy, Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera. Hello and welcome to the ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pintiati, and I'm here this morning with the fabulous Deonté Lee and Stephen Ruiz. Deante, how's it going? Things are good.

You know, this is probably as San Diego as it gets in the middle of July. It's overcast, probably going to be about 74 degrees. So, you know, I'm doing a lot better than the rest of the world is what I mean to say. You know what? You know what? The one good thing about the Chargers leaving San Diego and going to Los Angeles is that it is that It reduced the number of times when I needed to remember that there are places with just like absolutely perfect weather all the time. And you really just brought me back to that place.

It's been like 90 degrees in New York for a week. So. I hate it for you. I'm jealous. I step outside. I'm instantly sweating in D.C. It was 100 degrees yesterday and it felt like 105. I resent you, Deonté.

I can't believe you brought that up. This swamp. The swamped. The swamped bee swamped. It is July. It is still, you know, sort of the dead time, although we are getting towards some teams starting to report in a week or so, starting with the earliest teams.

But I think we've still got a good little grab bag of like very off-seasony feeling news. Much of it pertaining to the wide receivers of the NFL, Well, starting with 49er Brandon Ayuk, who this is according to Mike Garofola, Venetable Network, posted just a few minutes, I think before we started recording, that IUC has officially requested to be traded from the San Francisco 49ers, which on the one hand, Brandon Ayuk, an accomplished receiver, a household name, a really effective young player requesting a trade from one of the cream of the crop teams of the NFC, like sort of a big, you know, big meaty piece of news.

On the other hand, the Brandon IUgh dissatisfaction and desire for a departure from the 49ers, I feel like we've had something to this effect like six times this off season. So there was part of me that saw this one. It's like, no, yeah, man. Like, yeah. No, we know. Like, we know you don't want to be there. We've been seeing the Instagrams.

We've been seeing you're talking to Jaden Daniels. You're tweeting at the commanders. You're doing your thing. But I guess he's made it official. Stephen, what do you think about the status here? It's been like a very telegraphed escalation process, I feel like. It's like, oh, I posted the practice film. That didn't work.

I posted the video of me FaceTiming Jaden Daniels and saying the team doesn't want me. That didn't work. I feel like this is his third trade request of the offseason too. It's like he's like upping this. trade request. Apparently he did it respectfully. I don't know what that means. He didn't curse. He didn't, I don't know. He didn't talk about Brock Purdy. I don't know what that means. But I've kind of come around on this. Like I, when this whole ordeal started, I was at the mind that 49ers could probably survive without him if they did end up trading him, depending on like how

Ricky Pierce saw, the rookie kind of steps up into that void. But the more I watch the 49ers on film because I'm doing the quarterback ranking, so I've been watching the past game, especially, the more you realize that Brandon Iuke is kind of like the break in case Kyle Shanahan's genius doesn't work button that they that I think they will really miss if he leaves. He is because sometimes it's third and seven. Sometimes it's third and eight and third and ten. And Shanahan's motions and his play actions don't work anymore. They're powerless against defenses and you need a guy that can just beat man coverage. I think Debo Samuel does have that in his bag, but it's just not his game.

Obviously Christian McCaffrey brings that to the table out of the backfield. But you need a guy that can win over the middle. And I think that's Brandon Ayuk. I think they're going to hurt. They're really going to miss him. It's really going to hurt if he leaves his team. To that point, that's what makes me think that he's not going to leave. Like, this feels like, again, this is the fourth or fifth major sort of attempt he's made to put himself out there to try to facilitate a trade.

It's now like a week before he'd have to report to camp. I don't see anything about a threat of a holdout. Obviously, there's financial cost there, although we'll see if that's something that he wants to pursue. But I don't know what the 49ers can get in return at this point that's going to help them this year more than Brandon Ayyuk. And they're obviously, you know, they believe that they're in a Super Bowl window. And so it just seems like the reward for giving him what he wants unless he wants to really, really, really dig in here. is a little, it's hard for me to see how that could ever benefit the 49ers and therefore, what would incentivize them to go along with this.

So if I had to bet, I bet he sticks it out there. But I agree with you that he would be a tough guy for them for a place. I think that both of your guys' statements kind of undersell it. I don't think that they can run the version of the offense that we've seen since they traded for Christian McCaffrey without having Brandon Aide. I don't think that offense works in that same way where you're getting five out in the run. route and you're trusting Brock Purdy to sit in the pocket or create and improvise. Because like Stephen said, so much of what Brandon Iyuk does in terms of value, beyond just being like great with being on time and a play action game is when they do go shotgun or

when they do go drop back pass, if Brock Purdy has to hold the ball, Iyuk is a guy that separates late that can make himself available in the middle of the field. And he's been a guy that's been a great yards after catch threat that's also pushing those explosive plays, right? So it's not just that he can catch a hitch or a crossing route, you know, or something underneath and then make one guy miss and go get eight or eight or nine yards on a play that should have been four or five. This is a guy that's getting a 16 to 20 yard chunks, if not more, in this offense. And they don't really have another outside guy that does that, you know. And for as much as I love Debo as a player, I think that his use, while it's maybe a little bit more niche and a little bit more unique, you can't put more on his plate and think that you're going to get.

something that replicates what Brandon IEuk gives you. You know, I don't think that they have, even in Ricky Piersall, a guy that can quickly learn the route tree, be as available and open as consistently as Iyuk is, when contested balls, be able to run the entire route tree and provide that same kind of value. So I would be concerned if I'm a 49ers fan, what this offense would even look like? Because I think that that means more downhill run game, which is more wearing tear on McCaffrey, right? I think that goes back to what Stephen is saying, like, it puts more stress on Kyle Shanahan to be that, you know, cutting edge, best run game innovator in the NFL, basically down in and down out to protect Brock Purdy because he's not going to have a

playmaker like IUC available, which is why I don't think that he gets moved. I think that this is a story that everybody's been aware of or has been bubbling basically since the combine. Like, that was when I first started hearing that a decision was going to be made eventually because they couldn't pay both he and, he and Debo. And then nothing came of that. And then you start to hear the story come back up again around the draft and nothing comes of that. They go out and draft a ride receiver, which makes everybody think maybe they have a trade partner for one of these two guys. Nothing comes of that either.

So I don't understand the timeline from San Francisco's perspective if they're not just going to pay Brandon and I eat the money that he's asking for. That's the part that really doesn't make sense to me. So I think we're all in agreement that for the 49ers probably, especially at this point in the summer, you know, again a week before guys report for camp, it makes sense to hang on the flip side of that. if you see this report and you are, say, the commanders or another team, are you making a call? Do you think the phone lines will be ringing in San Francisco for any of this, Stephen?

I think if you're the commanders, you have to make that call. You're almost forced to make the call just because of the kind of flirtation he's had with Jaden Daniels and their friendship. And everything comes down to the quarterback. You're making the quarterback happy. If Jada Daniels is going to be the guy going forward, you're going to have to have. have to give him things that he wants. And this is a very easy win, a very clear layup. And he's a good player. I think you won't come to regret the resources you allocated in a trade for him. He's not like a situation where you're training for a player who there's a question mark if he's

going to work outside of the system. That's usually the case with a Kyle Shanahan player, especially on offense. Like we've been saying, Brandon Ayuk, to me, is scheme proof. He's just a guy that it's open and like every team in the NFL can use that. So if I'm any NFL team I'm calling, and I think the fact that we haven't heard potential trade partners or potential price for the trade, and the fact that this continues to escalate tells me that I don't think like a trade is going to happen. Otherwise, we would hear reporting about that. Yeah, I mean, it also for all of the the social media silliness and all of the like, hey, is this stampering? What's going on here? This doesn't seem nasty. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but it, you know, we're seeing the little

dribs and drabs. And obviously this is sourced through agents or team people or basically everybody who's going to be talking to a reporter about this has one agenda or another. But we're seeing all this stuff about, you know, they had a respectful meeting. They didn't make progress, but

not seeing stuff about, you know, major plans to hold out. It doesn't seem like this is at a true boiling point. Are you going fully, Aaron Rogers? right here? You're doing conspiracy theory? You're saying it's a, it's a, it's fake?

No, I think it's real. I just don't think that they're like, I think that it's not something that once you get into training camp, once you get into the season, it seems like it's going to cause a huge problem. Well, I think it's fake. I'm changing my take on it. I'm picking up where you left off. I'm saying it's a performative holdout. It's a performative contract negotiation. It's going to get done. I actually, I kind of lean in it in Steven's direction to more I think about it from both of these guys' perspective. Because if I'm Brandon and I, you, why would I not hold out if I actually want to go? Because you find a lot of money.

To me, if I wanted to get out that badly, I'm going to leave. I'm not going to be around for camp. So that to me tells me maybe there is a little bit of window for reconciliation or for them to figure something out in terms of what the contract numbers are going to be. If it comes down to years or guarantees or whatever the case may be. Because I just, I don't see this trade happening because if I'm San Francisco, it's going to to take the AJ Brown package, and I don't think the teams are going to offer the AJ Brown trade package to go get Brandon Ayuk right now. Yeah. I don't think so either. Do you know I feel

sorry for the most in this situation? Jane and Daniels, because his heart is being played with. He's being used as a tool by his friend. I don't think, I don't think Brandon Ike is doing this for the right reasons. I'm just going to leave it at that. It's a bachelorette season, Love Islands, you know, in the middle of the season. That's how I'm looking at it. Yeah, Stephen, I didn't think you've been watching Love Island. I've been watching way too much Love Island on both continents, too, UK and the U.S. I don't want to get into it further, though.

All right. Have you watched any of, speaking of wider receivers, have you watched any of the Netflix receiver show? I have not. Outside of clips on social media, I've not seen. Yeah, I've seen some clips. I'm going to binge it one of these days, though. So I've been watching it. It's, it's good. It has

the same sort of thing. I have the same reaction to it that I did in part to quarterback, although I do think quarterback was a little bit better. Which is just like, I'm just not totally sure who it's for, but clearly lots of people because quarterback was really successful. I don't quite know how receivers done so far.

Because some of it does feel like just sort of the Wikipedia page for like George Kittles' 2024 season. And they don't quite have like, I don't know that they had quite the same like sort of breakout characters of, you know, Kirk Cousins. being weird and all of that stuff. But I will say, I do think you both should watch it. For several reasons, there are several things that are interesting about it. I won't totally spoil. But the one thing, and I feel like I can say this because I think this is what's been making the round on the clips, is getting to see the abject disdain Devante Adams has towards

Jimmy Garoppolo is like really, it is something to behold. And it is really the thing that, like, kind of shocked me is that Josh McDaniels, actually, I haven't finished it. I have one episode left. So, you know, maybe they come back to it or something. But Josh McDaniels gets off scot-free. Like, when he gets fired, what Devonde Adam says about that is like, Josh is a nice guy. Josh and I have a good relationship. This is just a results business and we needed a change. When Devante Adams talks about Jimmy Groplo, first of all, the first thing that he brings up is just like, I'm going to get killed out there. Yes. Yes. That's what Jimmy, that's his specialty is throwing people into hits, into concussive. You can call him hospital balls. It's okay.

Hospital balls. He is the number one hospital. And that is probably why it comes across more clearly for the quarterback than for the coach. but when he's at like he brings it up a bunch of times like I've never been hit like this before in my career like I've never I've you know in college high school whatever I've never had this experience of just feeling like I'm going to get walloped over the middle on every route and then when they ask him about when they ask him about Jimmy getting benched he goes my opinion on that is that I signed off on it

See, this is my type of content. If this was the whole show, I would have already binged it. Like, why receivers? Receivers like that in the lead. Yeah, wide receivers have the political cachet to complain publicly. That's, that's, especially on Netflix. Especially on Netflix. You can't binge other receivers complaining about their quarterbacks.

The part of those clips that stood out to me was that the other players on the other sidelines could see it in Devante. Yeah. They're like, oh, man, I never seen them like this. This is bad. he's guffed out, man. It's not good. Yeah, so I might watch this for that.

I just don't know how much George Kittle, like, epicness I can handle. Is it like eight episodes of him, like, wearing wrestling t-shirts? Yeah, kind of. I mean, some of the George Kettle stuff is sort of fun. Because wife is fun. They have a, I don't, I actually,

I enjoyed his parts, but it is basically George Kittle just being like, oh, man, love to get into W. but I can't because of my contract. The one thing I wish they'd they'd done more of is this Amon Raus St. Brown is one of the the like featured guys, but his brother comes up in it too. And they show their family a lot. And their family is really cool and really interesting.

And like their dad was like Mr. World, whatever it's called. Like he was like a weightlifter. And their mom is German. And I think they made a mistake in the fact that they thought that the dad should have been a central character. And like the dad's cool and the dad, but the dad is a sports dad. And he seems to really care about his kids and that's great. And those scenes are fun. But like we've seen a lot of sort of, we've seen a lot of sports dads in our content over the time.

Right. This incredible, they're incredibly blunt, like just. says whatever she is thinking, German mother, who just, like, gets on screen and is like, well, the bears will not make the playoffs. So we root for the lions. Like, just taking absolutely none of the normal bullshit we hear from people. Like, this woman was so underutilized in this documentary. But the little snippets of Mama St. Brown that you get are really, really special.

So there are some things that I really enjoyed about it. some of it was just like yeah sucks to get injured but oh coming back and scoring a touchdown I watched that game last year but I'll recommend do you think do you think St.

Brown's mom was in on the Jared Doff chance or do you think she's a little more critical of his play? I would love it if they I mean if I have one wish if I have one single wish for this final episode that I haven't seen. I doubt that there's any chance that this would happen.

But if they had gone to her and said, what do you think about Jared Gough? I guarantee you that would have been electric television. But again, they didn't let this woman cook. Like, she was ready to cook. And she cooked a little, but they just, they didn't let her. So it was like a Pete Carol Russ situation. Yeah, she just, you know, they would,

they would go to the dad for his talking head and then they would sort of let her fill in her part. But like she was supposed to be the stock. are. I love this time. All right. Shall we rank some young cores? Let's do it. So here's how this works.

We've each got a top 10 list, top 10 teams ranked by their young cores. We're taking that to mean players under 25. And the way we decided to do this was to say that quarterbacks don't count. So we want to talk about everything else, right? We just felt like quarterbacks would sort of too heavily weight things one way or another. Obviously, we'll have some teams in here who also have a young quarterback that if you added them in, maybe they would vault towards the top of the list or further up and not vice versa. But I just think it's an interesting look because you do see sort of where some of the open spaces on the board are,

where like, okay, some of these teams have an established quarterback, but some of these teams either don't or maybe in a couple of years they won't. And it just becomes interesting, I think, to look at the NFL in terms of all the surrounding pieces. And I think it's helpful, too, because obviously we spend a lot of time for good reason talking about quarterbacks, but for the purposes of today, we are ignoring them. So I think we should start with 10 through 10. six. So Deonte, do you want to maybe kick us off? Yeah. So this is where to me, the non-quarterback piece of this is where it really got tricky for me, like with the bottom of the list. So the team that I'm picking here would definitely not be here if the quarterback was involved. I'm going with Houston

and it's only because there's so much projection, I think, on the defensive side of the ball with some of their young pieces. And there are guys that I really like, you know, Will Anderson is obviously already shown what he can be, you know, one rookie of the year last year, probably produced a little bit more as a pass rusher than I think people maybe even expected coming right out and being a full-time starter. And then we saw what Tankdale was as a vertical stretch piece in this offense before he got hurt. So there's a lot of, there's a lot to build with there.

I just think that for them to be higher without C.J. Strout being a piece of the mix, we would have to see Stingley really finish a season or continue to produce at this level again. We definitely need to see that replicated. and then we need to see what they can get out of guys like Kamala Bullock and Karami Lasseter or Kamari Lasseter as well, you know, on the defensive end. So if that defensive backfield looks the way it's supposed to look midway through this season and we revisit this topic, then I might really be looking at them like they've got one of the healthiest young defensive cores in football. But right now I think I'm probably pumping the brakes on them.

Yeah, I would say for them it comes down to how the rest of that receiving core kind of fills in. Because I'm assuming that Stefan Diggs is going to be a one and done. Like it's going to be this year and he's going to sign with another team. Like going forward, I feel like the strength of this court depends on how that wide receiver court kind of develops. Like I'm thinking about like Tank Dell behind Nico Collins. And Nico Collins, who just, who is 25 now. So I like this pick.

And I think like you mentioned it, the ceiling on defense is where you really get excited about this. Derek Stingley stays healthy and plays. And I think it gets acclimated to the Damiko Ryan scheme in his second year. I think there's a chance that he's an all-prone. cornerback. I think he's in the discussion for top five at that point at the position. And then Will Anderson, like, I think so highly of him. I don't think, I'm not going to say like he's Micah Parsons. I don't think he's that type of player. But I do think he can have a similar impact, maybe like 85 to 90 percent of the impact, which is still pretty big. And he's a second year player. Maybe he

will develop into that type of like super duper star who changes games no matter who he's playing. But at this point, I do think he's such a valuable chess piece that I, like, I'm almost surprised that you ranked of 10 because I know how much. Yeah. Well, so I have, I have them higher. I don't want to spoil too much. But it, and it's a good point that this isn't necessarily like even though the Texans, they are overall a young team. It's kind of my reasoning for them for putting them higher is top heavy. But they could if Anderson has another great season, if Stingley continues to develop and really gels in that defense, like I put them higher because I think there's a situation where at the end of the year, You know, those are the two star young court players.

They play premium defensive positions and you might have two top five players in their positions in the NFL there. And that seems like sort of rare. But again, even built into that, it is a little bit of projection. Obviously, Strout doesn't count in this exercise. The Texans might win this game if quarterback's count. There might be one if Straub is in the conversation. But I think without it's just a matter of how much particularly on that defense do you want to play a projection game.

I'd also throw in like offensive line is a little bit of a wild card. You know, if Kenyon Green juice grugs really develop, then that's that's another part of this team that has good young players establishing themselves who can be there for the long run if they want them to be. And those guys are hurt. So, you know, if they were there, it probably goes a little bit better. So, ninth for me, and this is another one that's like, I don't know, I don't know if I will feel this way if we were having this conversation at another point in the year. Right now, I have Seattle at nine for me. And I think a lot of that is just like, again, comes down to what you think of their premium

position talent, right? If Charles Cross and Abe Lucas can be healthy and be closer to what they were in their first year than what we saw last year. And I think that that's really the question, not just in this exercise before the Seahawks season, especially on the offensive end, is whether or not Ryan Grub can be a good mesh with Gino Smith. And a lot of that is going to hinge on whether or not they can keep them upright enough to really design some of the downfield passing stuff that we saw two years ago when Gino looked like, you know, a top eight to ten quarterback in the league, you know,

while he was at his best. So those are the two guys I think that I'll probably highlight here. On the other side of the ball, there's Tariq Wullen, who I think was a little bit more up and down, you know, and I think that's going to happen with guys who are more like the ball producers than the tight coverage guys. So it's going to be a little bit more variance with him. And then we got to see what Byron Murphy looks like. You know, I think he was drafted because Mike McDonald really valued what Justin Matabuque gave Baltimore's defense. And he probably looks at Byron Murphy in a similar light. So if you're able to get, you know, instant production out of that guy, then again, this is another team. I think that it's probably on the lower end of my

ranking now, but has the potential to make a big jump midway through the season. If we get to see some the guys that have been a little bit more uneven, really show a little bit better in 2024. And that's not even counting Kenneth Walker and Zach Charbonnet, who could easily end up being one of the best young one-two punches if the run game is there in Seattle. I'm changing my mind. Why don't we go three by three? But Stephen, I'm curious what you want to say about the Seahawks. And then Deontay, you can do your, your a eight. And then we'll move on. I'm almost like giving them a Mike McDonald boost, especially on the defensive side. Like I'm just assuming he's going to max out these players like Byron Murphy.

and Devin Weatherspoon, who I think could be an absolute star. Like, he's not Kyle Hamilton by any means. Obviously, he doesn't have the size, but he plays as if he does have Kyle Hamilton's size, which I think Mike McDonald will really appreciate and get a lot of good use out of. But yeah, the question marks on the offense. It comes down to those two tackles. And like, you could say that for their season as a whole. If those two tackles are what we saw in the first half of 2022 and at times in 2023,

then I think this could be a good team. This could be a playoff team. If those tackles fall apart and that offensive line falls apart again, I think we're going to see more of the same. And I think we will have question marks about this team's core on the offensive side because there are question marks about D.K. Metcalfe.

He's like been in the brain and IE holding pattern for like the last two years. Tyler Lockett's name always gets brought up. Whenever you talk about trades with D.K. Metcath, Lockett's name comes up. I think JSN is going to be around for a long time, but Gino Smith could be out the door. So there are a lot of question marks

about the offensive side, but the defensive side, like, I'm all in on this team. And I think Mike McDonald's going to get the most out of these players. All right. Who's your eights? Eight is where I really starts to not feel good. So eight for me, I'm going with, I'm going with the Rams here. And I think that a lot of this for me is, again, needing to see replication.

And it really has less to do with Pooka Nakua, who I do think when you watch the film, you can see the ways where even if he's not a record setting, producer at wide receiver where he's just kind of like Sean McVay's like dream outside receiver type you know guy who will work the middle of the field willing to take contact makes tough catches obviously shows up in the blocking game you can do a lot of different things with him in terms of versatility which are formations and your schemes and all that so i think that he'll be fine no matter what it's guys like byron murphy on the edge trying to figure out uh what brayden fisc is going to give them you know there's obviously a number 99 sized hole in the middle of the

defensive interior that Fisk and Kobe Turner have to try to fill, you know, and we have to see what the context of this defense is going to be like with those guys. So I think there are some questions on the defensive front that we have to get figured out. Jared versus Byron Murphy, and then they're two interior guys that they've had in the last two drafts. Like, they're going to be very young up front. And I don't think we've seen enough yet to stamp that that defense is going to be what it needs to be. I think offensively they're pretty stable, though, with Steve Avila and Pooka and Kua, probably being the top two young guys. and Kiren Williams.

So I think that there's a lot there on the offensive side of the ball, but maybe not enough yet defensively for me to feel like they're a top five unit. The thing about the Rams and I agree with you that they belong in this conversation, but on the lower end of it is it's kind of like look what having, you know, 35 undrafted free agents and rookies and players who, you know, don't remember the turn of the century. in camp last year we'll do because the Rams, I mean, the Rams were old, right?

And just the fact that they have recycled and remade something that is looking like, maybe not one of the best young cores, but a pretty serviceable one is, is fairly impressive because it kind of snuck up on you. Stephen, how similar is your 1098 to Deontes? Oh, I have one similarity. team, but I have like the other, the other two are like just a little bit higher up. But my 10th team, and this kind of surprised me because the terms that we've been talking about them throughout the offseason, the terms I've been talking about them, it's not like a team you would think

about having a bright future, but I have the Buffalo bills as my 10th team. And maybe I'm just like Keon Coleman pilled. But I think if Keon Coleman, just because of the social media videos, I have not watched any Florida Stateville. He bought a jacket on sale. He did other things too. I don't know. He at one point in jeans. I forget. He's had like five different viral clips, and I'm fine. I'm all in.

Stephen notoriously anti-epic man is totally in on Kiann Coleman. It's natural with Kian Kovin. It's not epicness with Kian Kovin. He's just naturally cool, okay? He doesn't have to force it. But anyway, Keon Coleman is it. He was just the first person on the list.

But really, like, I'm excited about like James Cook and having Dalton Kincade. If those two guys hit, and then you have Kiyan Koleh Koleil Shakir. Last year you were Dalton. and Kincaid pilled in this year, your Kian Coleman pill. I'm changing it. I'm going to a different skill position on Buffalo every year.

And then I like, I kind of like the young secondary. Like I think Christian Benford is a better player than people give him credit for. He's only 23 years old. He's been playing forever. I think he's going to get better. Yeah, he's certainly got the snap counts. And then I think Cole Bishop, I think Cole Bishop is going to be a good player, the safety they drafted.

And then Greg Rousseau is another good player on defense. So I think like low-key have a decent core. And if some of these guys hit, like Coleman, James Cook continues his development, I think we can be talking about this core as like something that rejuvenated this team at a time they really needed it. I mean, they really need it. Just as you said, they really, they really need it. Deonti, I'm going to assume the bills are not on your list if they weren't in the bottom three.

They're not, but they were a team that I kind of didn't know what to do with. And that's why I ended up leaving them off. I think that everything Stephen said is justifiable for putting them in the top 10. I like Benford a lot. Like he said, I don't think he gets enough credit for what he's done at the corner position. I do like Greg Rousseau a lot for all the trouble that they've had up front with pass rush. He's actually been one of the few guys whose pressure rate has been sticky year over year. You know, as his snap count has gone up, he's still been able to produce and get pressure and he's been a better run defender than I thought he was at Miami when he was coming into the league.

So to me, it's like, to me, the reason why I left him off because I don't know what to make up Dawson Kincaid yet. Yeah. And what his target share is going to look like, what his route tree is going to look like. Because it took him a while to catch on. Once they found a way to get him the ball quickly, I thought that we saw some early returns in terms of yards after the catch, being able to create offense for them. I think that they've got to expand the role for them. I'm just not sure exactly what the usage is going to look like when you don't have a Stefan Diggs to at least draw some of the defense's attention to the perimeter. Well, and is any one of those players a star?

Like, is there anyone in there's a lot of useful names? there, but even with these teams towards the end of the top 10, like, you know, Wetherspoon was a defensive rookie of the year candidate last year. You know, at a, at least for a time, although they obviously fell off last season

and dealt with injuries, like the tackles in Seattle looked really good. You know, Pooka Nukua set crazy records. Like, I the bill is actually, it's a really instructive point and it's, and I didn't, I didn't think of

including them. And it's, this is sort of illuminating for me because they do have, there's sort of more names than you think there are. I just wonder if, if there's any one of those guys where it's like, okay, you know, here's, here's a guy who you can count on being a major part of your game planning, being someone that people are going to have to game plan against like those blue chip players. It would be so great if Buffalo could hit on someone like that, right? like a real building block as opposed to just like, oh yeah, they've got more young, useful players than you think they do. I think it almost has to be Keon Coleman. Like he has the body type of a receiver that could be that type of player.

And the social media clips. I think like exactly. That's the most important part. I think Khalil Shakir has a chance to be like a fringe pro bowl receiver and at least put up that type of production. Like he had a lot of, he played in the slot and had a lot of explosive production out of the slot, which I think is a, a, a union. unique thing that we don't really see around the league.

Like if Amon Rae St. Brown can be on, could headline a Netflix show. I think Khalil Shakir could have that type of impact where he is getting paid $25 million a year. To be clear, Amon Raa St. Brown can't headline a Netflix show. Ammon Rae can headline a Netflix show. Oh, he doesn't have the juice. Amon Ra doesn't have the juice? He's fine. He's a slot receiver.

What can we say? He's fine. He's very nice. Stephen, do you want to give, so sorry, will you repeat your 1098 and then maybe give us year 765. Yeah, so I went, so Bill's 10. I went Cardinals 9, and I think this is a team that I think could be higher on the list. And then my 8th team was the Rams.

But like on the Cardinals, I really like this receiving core. And I'm going to include Tray McBride in the receiving core, the tight end, the big tight end. As well, you should. If him and Marvin Harris, if him Marvin Harrison Jr. and Michael Wilson, like, continue on their development track. And then Kyler Murray is the Kyler Murray. We saw when the Cardinals were 9 and 0 and he was an MVP candidate. Plus, you throw in a left tackle in Parrish Johnson Jr.

Who could be like a franchise left tackle. Like that is a top five offense starter pack. And like that's why I might regret ranking this team where I ranked them. Because I think this could be a top five core at the end of the year. I think every like consensus. Everyone will think that. Can I be vulnerable for a second? Do it.

Our last few podcasts have revealed to me that I am dangerously cardinals filled. Dangerously. It's a problem. It's going around, man. It's going around. It is spreading like wildfire. I mean, I'm nervous about it. They are on my list.

They are higher than they are on your list. But keep us going. I think that it comes down to Kyler Murray, obviously, like how we look at this score. I think there is a chance, like, in three years, they're blowing this up. If Kyler Murray either gets injured again or regresses in some way or, like, plays the worst, the worst football of his career next year, I think that. there's a chance that they do end up blowing this up.

But right now, like, in terms of sealing, I don't know how many teams I actually listed above them that I would feel comfortable trading my core with. There are a couple at the top that are like fringe Super Bowl contenders that I wouldn't trade with. But this is, this might, this has a chance to be like the best of the rest is what I would say. Yeah.

So then eight? Oh, my eight team was the Rams. Was the Rams? Okay. Yeah. So I have mostly teams that we've talked about. the Rams for me I put it 10th

it's it's yeah just a matter of want to see it some more questions about that defensive front now that they don't have Aaron Donald but again I think that's pretty impressive considering what they had to rebuild there

ninth is the team that has not been mentioned and I wonder if this means that they're not on your guys' list or that they're higher. I have the New York Jets. I have the Jets higher. Slightly higher. Yeah, have the Jets higher. Yeah. So this for me is like it's top heavy, but there's not it's, you know, how much are you going to bank on sauce gardener and Garrett Wilson is the major question here. I think both of those are blue chip talent players. And so I can see the argument that from, not from them alone, but that they could carry a ranking higher than ninth. You also add in Joe Tipman at center, Brees Hall.

And then they drafted Oli Fashano in the first round to may or may not get, you know, more or less playing time this year. It's an impressive core. It's just not that deep. And that's why I had them down at nine. And then the Seahawks for me came in it came in at eight. Steven, do you want to do you want to do the next chunk of three? Want to take us through seven, six, five? Yeah.

I also, two teams that we already talked. about with the Seahawks and the Jets. That was my 7-6. My fifth team, I kind of cheated because I included a 25-year-old. I included Justin Jefferson. I'm putting the Vikings at fifth. I feel like I'm justified in including them because they have a rookie quarterback. I feel like it just makes the team a little bit younger. And he did get hurt last year during his age 24 season. So I feel like he missed out on one. So I'm including him. This is like how I said all the pandemic years that I got older didn't count. And I'm like 26 right now. Yeah, you're the Jaden Daniels of this spot. But also Christian Daryasaw, like, again, a franchise tackle,

Jordan Addison, who I think flashed enough for me to be optimistic about his, his ability to fill into that number two role. Because I think that is like a tricky role to play sometimes, especially with the best wide receiver in the NFL and a guy who commands, if he's not getting 15 targets, Jefferson, then like the Vikings game plan was shit. And I think he was able to fit in there seamlessly. And then they have, they have a starting guard under 25. they get Dallas turning.

Like they have pieces in place. So I don't feel bad about how shallow this core is because the guys at the top are real difference makers. So I hear you. The guys at the top also don't really count for this exercise because one's 25 and once a quarterback. I did not count J.J. McCarthy because I might bump him down a spot or two if I was including the quarterback because I think that's the one thing

that could hold back this core, especially the receivers and the office. of tackle. Did you have the Vikings? I did not have the Vikings. I did not have Vikings because I followed the rules of the exercise. I'm a rule breaker, okay? And love Ivan Pace, you know, love some of the young guys that they have on the team, but no, they didn't make my list.

It's not a deep group. I will admit that. I like it. I like spicing it up a little bit. Okay. Diyadh, how much, how much do you and Stephen have in common in this stretch? So Arizona and New York were both in this next chunk of three for me. New York came in at seven.

And they probably, you know, that to me, I think you guys mentioned it, you know, with Sauce Gardner being an established star. You know, this is something I'm actually working on a top top 25 under 25 list for the site. And that was one of the reasons why I think so highly of the Jets and so highly of Sauce Gardner is it, obviously the foundation of a potential Hall of Fame career is already being laid on his rookie deal, right? So I have them seventh just because I don't think there's as much depth because some of their French guys are over that 25-year-old mark, right? But they have a really good young core if you just think about guys that are young and in their prime. Six for me is Arizona.

I really love Trade McBride. You know, going back and watching his film, I think that I maybe even lost track of how effective he was as a receiver outside of just like the raw. production. Just looking at how quickly, you know, Drew Petting was able to find a role for him. It's kind of like your move around guy, how effective he was as a route runner as an inline tight-in. That wasn't something that I was sure he was going to be in the league right out the gate. I knew it would be pretty good in the slot being able to put his hand in a dirt or be an off tight-in and still go create separation and get all the yard after catch production that he had last year was really impressive to me. And then you add in the fact that I think they have

a cornerstone in Parris Johnson Jr. and what I think that Marvin Harrison, Jr., is going to be as an ex-receiver in this offense. With Kyler-Berry, our quarterback, I feel really strongly that they're going to be a top six at worst young unit in 2024. And then fifth for me, I put Atlanta here, watching Bejohn Robinson over the offseason. That's another guy, like, because it was just such a dumpster fire in Atlanta

in the second half of the year, it was easy for me to kind of tune it out or maybe not appreciate it properly. Going back and watching Bejohn Robinson and what he did in terms of creating explosive plays, anytime there were light boxes was really impressive to me. And I think that that's something that Atlanta's really going to be able to lean off with Zach Robinson because of what you can do with Kyle Pitts and what you can do with Drake London as ballwinners, you know,

over the middle and on the perimeter. So that's something that I'm really looking forward to watching this year. And I think the Bajon Robinson at worst is going to end up being a top three back in the NFL coming out of 2024. Yeah, I totally agree on the Bajon point. Like if you look outside of his rushing production, If you look at his receiving production and how often he turns receptions

that are like checkdowns essentially are like behind the line of scrimmage into first downs, it's right up there with Christian McCaffrey. Like it's Christian McCaffrey at like 55% and then Bijan at like 52%. With like not the same volume, obviously you're not getting the same volume

as CMC like an established star, but like good enough volume where you don't think it's fake. And then you watch the film and the way the guy moves, he moves differently from everyone else on the screen when you watch them. So, like, he's a running back, and I know we're not supposed to value running backs,

but I think, like, he's a big enough star to kind of elevate this core. This is a question when he was drafted, right? Right. The reason it sort of felt okay. And you can have questions about, like, value in terms of, like, salary cap dollars and, like, how long this is going to last, the shelf life of it all. But, like, right now, I do think he's the type of star who elevates this core, which I do think is a little shallow.

Like, it depends on, like, they have some guys on the fringes, like AJ Terrell just turned 25, I think. Right. Some other guys. It is like a thin group like with Drake London at the top in in Bijan. And there's not a lot to be excited beyond that. But those two guys are enough for me to. I had, I had them at 11th.

I considered them like at 7th and 8th right before we started this. But I made a last minute switch. But I could easily see them in the top 10. Well, I would argue, Stephen, to the point of Bijon as a receiver, I would argue he was as productive as he was. And they were not getting as much as they could have gotten out of him. as a receiver. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Because so much of the work was just like checkdowns out of play actions and, you know, simple swings out into the flat and things like that. They could really build an entire offensive package around him as a receiver, working option routes underneath, very similar to what we saw to Christian McCaffrey once he got traded to San Francisco. So there's more on the bone to get there. I also think the fact that, I mean, you toss in obviously Kyle Pitts to that group. And then Matthew Bergeron is a good young offensive line minute left guard.

And it is really, I mean, story of the falcons lives, like it is very much skewed towards these offensive skill positions. And you certainly have to factor in that the results have been a little bit underwhelming thus far, although obviously I think coaching has sort of been credited with the brunt of why that's happened. But look, this is an offensive league. It is an offensive game. And the fact that they have those guys, I mean, it feels like there's more meat on the bone in every single one of these cases that we're talking about but like Deontay put yourself in the shoes of game planning

to stop Bijon Robinson, Drake London, Kyle Pitts pretty good offensive line there in Atlanta you know put in Kirk Cousins right I'll say whoever you want rely on quarterback play yeah it doesn't feel like a fun challenge I can't imagine. Right. I mean, all the pieces are there for them to be a top eight offense in the league. If Kirk Cousins looks like what he looked like in Minnesota, you know, and all these guys are

maybe using roles that I think really allowed them to create explosive offense in a way that we just didn't see with Arthur Smith. What do you think that role looks like for Bejohn in this style of offense? Because this is obviously, I think this is a change in style of offense. And hopefully, if they have the Shaw McMake juice, I think they're going to get a lot out of them. But what do you And that was, that's exactly what I was going to say. I think if I'm Zach Robinson, I'm going back to 2016 to 2018 RAM stuff. And I'm going to look at Bijan Robinson the way that they looked at Todd Gurley, which is mid zone, outside zone. And we're going to screen teams to death every time you try to play soft coverage to get underneath guys like Drake London or to try to take away Kyle Pitts over the middle of the field. That's just going to open up space for Robinson to work underneath and get those yards out to catch opportunities. So to me, that's the easiest way. And then that's not even counting what we said earlier. in terms of like where that style of offense has really grown is using the running back more as a true weapon in the passing game. And all that is still very much on the table with the guy like Bijon because of his special movement skills. All right. So at seven, that seven is where I put the Cardinals.

And, you know, again, it's a matter of seeing it, obviously. there's you know you try to take the quarterback out of it as much as you can there's a little bit of projection probably built into this about like oh if carler murray is ready to go like maybe this is going to look really cool um but obviously you want to see them do it uh a prospect like Marvin harrison it feels okay to be like not he's going to be good but obviously with a rookie there's some sort of learning curve and we'll have to see what that is um um um I I have the Texans at six, who we talked about, just feel like the strength of those defensive stars in particular pushes them up. And then five is where I had the had the Falcons.

Again, it's funny because it feels like that group of skill players, though not all of them. Like, it just feels like we've been talking about them for so long. but they are so young. Like they're so young and they're so talented. And just maybe after this year, if the results are still not feeling like they're coming together in the way that people hope, like maybe that's when I'll give up. But I'm not ready. And Bergeron, Zach Harrison at defensive end, they have a little bit of depth there too, though it really comes down to those skill position guys. I can keep us going

4-3-2 4 is an interesting one and I'm curious where you guys have this team and how you guys thought about this team because at 4 I have the Green Bay Packers a team that obviously would be has a young quarterback and

we're not counting that. The thing that's weird about the Packers for me is that they are all babies. Like the average age of a Packer last season basically was 25. So this is one where it's not necessarily about individual stars, but there's just a lot of, they have a lot of young depth. I would say that Jaden Reed is probably like the standout here,

led the team in receiving and receiving touchdowns last year. But Romeo Dobbs, Malie Keith, Dontavian Wicks, the tight ends, Rashid Walker, Quay Walker, Lucas Van Ness. Devon board at safety, like you're, you're, you just have a lot of guys who count towards this. And, you know,

I'm not starting this conversation with, um, a lot of, you know, with Tucker craft. But at the same time, at a certain point, I felt like it had to,

had to add up. So I, I could have, I could have put them, I don't know if I could have put them higher than this, but I felt that they deserved it. I could have put them lower. but four ended up feeling right.

Stephen, what do you think about that? I think I just overthought them. And I was like dealing with the same problem you had of it. But I went the other way. I ended up leaving them out of my top 10. But like in terms of like best young roster that I would want, like this is the one I want.

But like I think it's the same question we had about the bills. Like is there a superstar player in this group? I think like just law of averages. You play the lottery. You buy a bunch of lottery tickets, you have a better chance of winning. I think there is probably going to be a star who emerges from this group. I just don't see it yet. But in terms of depth, this is one of the more impressive rosters in the league.

I don't know. They could have been as high as like six for me, but I left them. I think I put them at 12. Yeah, I might be overrating them a little bit, particularly because from the perspective of like, what do you think about roster building, right? Like guys hit, you either have to extend players or they hit free agency. and in free agency, players get overpaid and some people walk out the door. And when you're talking about a group of 12B players, once they are no longer cheap rookie contract players,

you're going to lose some of those guys because that's just the way that that's the way that free agency works, that's the way that contracts work, that's just inevitably going to happen. And the other, you know, obviously star players are good to have because they're very good at football and they're star players. but they also give you kind of those tent poles to build your roster around, and that's part of the value, I think, of a young core. And it does become murkier in a situation like Green Bay has. I just, there's just a lot of them. Yeah.

So that felt like it had to count for something. But I did count it for a lot. I mean, I was got, they definitely won me over just off the share of volume, like you were saying. It was so many names going through the list of like, oh, I like this player. I think this player is going to be good. I think that player is going to be good. And eventually I looked up and I'm like,

do I think that this is like a top three core in young core in the NFL? And that to me, I think is where I got where I may be leaning a little bit in the opposite direction of Stephen where it's like because you can't easily identify who the guys are because they haven't really sorted out which guys break out yet. I can see why you might leave them off the list without that kind of definition. But for me, because they has so much volume, I actually have them higher than fourth on my list. But I do love all the guys that they have and how they project, right?

Like one of Musgrave and Kraft breaking out changes the dynamic of this offense. One of Dobbs, Wicks, and Reed taking the next step, completely changes the complexion of this offense. And that's not even counting like Lucas Van Ness as potentially another piece of the pass rush rotation more reliably than we saw as a rookie and having Carl Brooks and a, and Kingsley and Gavari. You know, there's a lot there that, you know, and Quay Walker. So there's so much there in spots that matter in the modern NFL that I can, that to me really matters when I start projecting out what I think these cores are going to be, not just now, but two to three seasons in the future.

And they have some guys that are right on the line. Like, Zach Tom is a very good tackle. He's 25. Xavier McKinney, who they just got at safety, really filled a hole on that roster, a giant hole. Maybe the biggest hole in the league on that side of the ball is also 25. So if I cheated like I did with Minnesota, they would probably be a top three team, but I didn't. So sorry. Yeah, well, they feel like a team where, you know, because young cores are sort of about projection, right?

It's not about necessarily this season's expectations, but it's like, who do we think that in two seasons, three seasons will either have entered a serious window or if they landed a quarterback would be in a Super Bowl window or anything like that? Packers are a team where I'm very bullish on their 2024 prospects, but if you ask me if I think, with the exception that I don't remember, which one of the, which how many of these guys are going to age out in one year, but if you ask me if they will be top five next year, that feels like a very safe bet because again, it just feels like it's a team on the rise. The quarterback situation is good. The coaching situation is good. Some of these guys who are sort of in this murky, like, oh, yeah, I like that player group. Some of them are going to break out.

And that's going to help them. Number three, I had the bears. And starts with, you know, they have darn all right, a tackle. I have high expectations for Roma Dune's A. in that offense, even as a rookie. And then the third sort of tenpool is what might be a very good young secondary. So you have guys like Tyrik Stevenson, Kyler Gordon, who finished strong last season, you know, got to see a little bit more.

I'm going to take a point from Stephen here and say that Jalen Johnson is just 25. That's right. Just barely didn't make the cut. And there you're talking about someone who, you know, is among the better corners in the NFL. So to me, obviously, the Bears are one of these teams where the quarterback would help them a lot, even though they still have, I think, a strong showing here. But I think it's those three tent poles. It's right at tackle.

It's Adunzei. And then Deonti, I'm curious what your expectations are for that bear secondary because to me, that's a really young and exciting unit. I mean, to me, that can be the best, like, trio of corners in the league if we see Tyreeks Stevenson take another step forward and we see Kyler Gordon be the player that it looks like he can be in this defense knowing what Jalen Johnson is. I left him off the top 10 just because Jalen Johnson wasn't in the consideration for me, given his age. But when you look at like that that defensive backfield and Darnell Wright and what I think of Darnell Wright already now and what he can continue to be in this offense, that's a really good reason to be optimistic for what this young core offensively is going to be. And this is another one to me where if the quarterback's involved, they're probably in my top 10, given what I think about Caleb Williams. But without them, they were just kind of outside in that like 11 to 12 range. but I love the defensive pieces that they have.

They have two defensive tackles that they picked last year in Jervon Dexter and Zach Pickens. That as they got on the field, you started to see some of the reasons why Chicago wanted to draft them and add them to their defensive front. So there's a lot there that's continuing to build. But back to the conversation we've been having about established, either high level to star play.

They don't have those guys quite yet in this age range and they don't have the volume that like a Green Bay has that would have really kind of pushed them into the top 10 for me. Yeah, that's what held them out of the top 10 for me, that pesky actually being under 25 rule that we had. Shoot. Shoot. It's like Jalen Johnson, like Cole Comette, like, I think he's a little overpaid, but I do think he's a good player and a good tight end, and he's 25 exactly. Right. Like when I initially put together my list just off of vibes before I really like looked at the rosters, they were in my top 10. They were firmly in my top 10 just because it feels

like they have a top young court. It feels like they're supposed to be here. Yeah, and I think it's the Caleb Williams vibes, but I do think that kind, like we left quarterbacks out of this, but I do think it has to be considered, especially when wide receivers play such a big part in how this core is going to be looked at. Like, DJ Boar obviously isn't included in this exercise, but he's also a younger receiver.

But when it comes, like Adunze, I feel like he will be a star if Caleb Williams is a star. If Caleb Williams is a bus, I think Adunzea is going to be a disappointment. I think he's directly tied to Caleb Williams. So I could see putting them in the third. top 10, but they were just outside my top 10. Okay, interesting. Now I'm curious, I'm curious to see, I think we'll actually be kind of different at the top then, particularly because I, I wondered about my number two and if this was going to be

weird to people. I put the Baltimore Ravens second. And they were an interesting one to me because they're like the names you want to list first. They're real blue chippers. Don't play premium positions, but they are elite, elite players at those positions. So, you know,

Kyle Hamilton, first team all pro safety. One of if not the best safeties in the league. Tyler Linderbaum at center was a pro bowler, really, really good center. A tier down in terms of where they slot out in their positions, the wide receivers,

Zayflowers, Richard Bateman. but still good young players, Isaiah likely, decent, tight end. And then you got to the draft picks. I'm interested to see what Nate Wiggins can give them a corner, Rosengarden the tackle that they drafted in the second round.

And then also really excited to see what Keaton Mitchell can give them once he gets back this year. Obviously, coming off an ACL, that's not fun. But he is 22 years old. and I think could be really productive in that offense. So this was one where like I kept slotting them in different places because again, it's like, okay, what do you do if, what do you do if a team like the Texans has this high end talent and it's edge rusher, it's corner and then how do you stack that up with, you know, a safety and a center?

But I do think there's some depth there. and then the two headliners, just being really excellent players, made me push them up. I had Baltimore at three when we started this podcast, and I pushed them up to two by the end of it. Okay. I think your selling point is the best point. The two players on this list, the two headliners, Linderbaum and Hamilton, are arguably the best players at their position. I think you could say Kyle Hamilton is the best defensive player in the NFL. He's also only 23 years old.

He will be eligible for this list next year. and maybe even the year after that, depending on when his birthday is. Like, this guy is 23 and already maybe the best defensive player in the league. And then, like, I, the tier two prospects, I think are really strong for tier two prospects. Like, I wouldn't think that Zay Plowers

is going to emerge as, like, some superstar wide receiver one who commands $35 million a year, headlines in Netflix show. But I do think he's going to be a very, very good second or third wide receiver for, like, a Super Bowl-level team. And then, like, I really like Isaiah likely. I like what he showed when Mark Andrews went down last year. I think, like, 12 personnel is going to be a big deal in Baltimore this year because

of what likely put on tape at the end of last year. Then even some of like the guys that you could kind of argue have been disappointments, like Odafei Owe, like, I think he's a useful player. I'm interested to see how useful he'll be now that Mike McDonald's gone, but I'm optimistic. The Ravens are set up for success for the next 10 years. And it seems like you've been able to say that about this franchise. Every year they've been in existence, basically. By the way, Kyle Hamilton birthday, March 16th, spicy pices.

So he'll be on, no, he won't be on 26. Yeah, but he'll be here next year for sure. Well, if I cheat, if I cheat again, he'll be on the list. He'll be on the list in 10 years. There's always that. So you just got to move up the, we got to move out the recording date for this, basically, to shoehorn this end. That's good we got to do.

Stephen, will you take us through 4-3-2? because I think I had two there in Chicago and Green Bay that weren't, weren't on your list at all. So I want to hear what you've got. Yeah, my fourth team was the Texans, and we've already discussed them. I'm just assuming that C.J. Stroud is going to get the most out of those offensive players, including the offensive line. And I think Damico Ryans is going to get the most out of the defensive players. So that's why I'm so bullish on them.

The team that was my second team before I flipped it during this pod, and it's because I adhere to the 20, the pesky 25-year-old rule is the Kansas City Chiefs. And I think it's a depth thing with them. Like you're taking it back, but like, it's just depth. I am taking it back. Xavier Worthy, like, obviously the player they draft, I don't know what he's going to be. He set the record for 40 times at the Combine. If he is a decent player, I think this young court looks a lot better. But I'm thinking of players on the defensive side of the ball.

Like you have Nick Bolton, you have Trent McDuffie, you have George Carloftus, you have Leo Chanel. I think these are players that are going to be pro-bowl-level players for the next five to eight years. years. And I don't know if I see another defensive, like a young defensive under 25 core that I could say that about. And then guess who's on the other side of the ball? It's Patrick Mahomes. So I don't care what happens around him. I don't care what the offense looks like. But I do think they have some good pieces. Rashy Rice obviously has the off-the-field issues. But, I mean, he was right there with Kelsey in terms of production down the stretch of last year and into the playoffs. He was just as reliable on third down as Travis Kelsey was with Patrick Mahomes deciding

which one to feed targets. I think that's a big deal. And then, like, I'm going to throw in like Isaiah Pacheco. I know he's 25 and he's a running back and he might as well be 35, but he is 25 and I'm going to cheat. I'm going to include him. I'm going to include Trace Smith. They have a lot of good young talent. So the depth and some of the names at the top and the fact that they have so much support around them in terms of the coaching staff, the players around them, the players around them, I just think this is going to be a team that's, we're never going to be worried about the cupboard being there with them. Did you have the Chiefs Deontay?

I did. They're fourth for me. Wow, okay. Yeah, they're fourth for me. And it really comes down to the defensive pieces like Stephen was saying. And honestly, if we didn't have 25 as a cutoff and I could have added Trace Smith and Creed Humphrey and Isaiah Pacheco and some of their other fringe guys, they could have been as high as two on this list when you consider what they have on the interior offensive line. I really like what I saw at a George Carl Lofdis. I had a lot of questions, you know, when he was coming into the league as a pass rusher.

I knew what he'd be as a run defender. but the motor that he brings as a pass rusher, his addition to, you know, playing alongside Chris Jones and what they're able to do in terms of crushing pockets and really containing quarterbacks. I think we saw that all throughout the playoffs last year,

is that they had an excellent plan. And that's not just using guys like Trent McDuffie as blitzers or using the Jerry's Need as blitzers. A lot of it comes down to the fact that they can trust these big body defensive alignment to do a bunch of different things up front that allow them to be versatile on the back end. And then getting into Trent McDuffie,

Not only is he a versatile piece, a guy that can play inside and out. That's a good blitzer. We got to see throughout the playoffs again that that's a guy that can play tight coverage against anybody in the league. I mean, him wiping Debo basically off the field is a big reason why San Francisco was never able to reclaim control of that game after looking so good at the opening script and not being able to get their passing game going. And then there's Nick Bolton as a linebacker. There's Leo Chanel as a linebacker. So I just think that the pieces are there and the infrastructure around those pieces is so strong. that I feel like these guys are all going to be the best versions of themselves as players as they continue on in their career.

Yeah, I think the difference is maybe I knocked them for the infrastructure, which is maybe a silly thing to do because obviously it helps them. But it's it they were less impressive to me when I just sort of looked at the names, right? Versus thinking about like, okay, how are all these pieces going to come together? It's just sort of different philosophies on how to do it. But that's interesting. I did, I don't, I was, it's not that I didn't think that they would come up in this conversation, but in the top three is, is surprising to me. Number two, Stephen?

The Ravens. The Ravens. Right, right, right. You said that. Deonti, do you want to take us through your 432 and then we can do, I have a feeling we're all going to have the same number one team. I think so. I don't think there's much debate for number one.

Four for me was Kansas City. Like I said, Green Bay was third. you know, like I said, the volume was really the reason why I felt confident putting them in the top three and thinking that at least one of these guys at the positions where they have multiple young pieces, I do believe that one of those guys are going to break out. And then for Baltimore, Stephen made the point that I was going to make, which is that the two biggest names here, Tyler Linderbom and Kyle Hamilton are the best in their position. And Kyle Hamilton, if you take value out of the proposition and you're just looking at players on the defensive side of the ball,

was the best defensive player in football last year. and probably the best chess piece in the NFL in the back seven last year. So I feel really good about them being second on my list. Zay Flowers, I think will continue to grow. I think that they do probably have to toy around with, like, his usage. Because as you can say, like, he's a good outside receiver. He's obviously not going to be a ball winner. And I do think that that kind of hurts Todd Monkins' offense at times.

It's not having an X that he can lean on. And Zayflower is not being a guy that's always going to win down the field. so they have to find more uses for him underneath. So I do think that there are some ways in which you maybe don't get another star out of this group because a lot of them are very specific in terms of roles and usage. But what they already have in Linderbaum and in Hamilton, I think is good enough to justify them being second. I think if you exclude quarterbacks from the proposition, you can make the argument that Kyle Hamilton was the third best player in football last year.

And I think the other two played for the 49ers. And they were Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams. Like, I think that highly of him as a player. So we have just one team left. Should we all say it at the same time? Should we all start chanting? Jared Goff. No, no, absolutely not.

He is not included in this. I was going to say, if he was included, they may not be first anymore. Don't give him any more credit than he got. The guy's got $60 billion a year. He doesn't need any more credit. Stephen, I want to, this exercise was your idea. That's right. The one that you've just routinely bent the rules and been like...

That's the benefit of coming up with the idea that you get to be the one. I knew how I was going to change the parameters on the fly. Before I suggested the idea. So number one, I'm pretty sure we all have the Detroit Lions. That's right. I mean, this list, like, just looking at the list and I have the ages next to it. It's absurd. And, like, all the players they have have room to spare in terms of, like,

the 25 cutoff. They have like a bunch of 22, 22, 23, 24-year-olds. Like, it's not even like they're like up against the limit. And the depth of like what side of the ball they're on, they're all spread out. The one concern I will say is there is a premium position question here. And it's like, Penae Soule, I think you could even say like, he isn't at left tackle. I don't think that matters as much as it once did. But even he's a right tackle.

But like, Jemir Gibbs is obviously a good player at 22 years old. But there's going to be question marks about his second contract. Sam LaPorter, there's always question marks about tight ends. They usually have to fight that fight. Jimmy Graham had to fight the fight. He wanted to be a receiver. So I think that's going to happen. And then I'm on Ross St. Brown.

He obviously got paid like a number one. But he is a slot receiver who doesn't necessarily affect the field down the field. Like, affect the game down the field. Brian Branch, a safety, another position that doesn't usually get paid a lot of money. A Lee McNeil, a defensive tackle, not the most glamorous position. Jack Campbell, I don't think he's, I don't know how good he's. going to be going forward, but he was the first round pick and he plays off the ball lineback or another position where those guys don't usually get paid. So I think that's the one question

mark with this core, but it's so deep and it's so young and the coaching is so good there. It has to be number one. Yeah. I mean, it's also it's, it's, I think that's a really good point, but there is a little, you know, the, and this has been the question with how they've drafted, even though I think based on this ranking and this discussion in some ways, the draft. graphs have obviously been incredibly successful. The main qualm has been positional value. Still, you know, Aidan Hutchinson, Eddresher. St. Brown, obviously, slot receiver, but still, it's an important position.

Depending on how Terry and Arnold does for them, that's, you know, you're drafting a corner on the first round, who's probably going to start this year. I'm not going to necessarily toss James and Williams in here. too high on the list. But again, like you can put another receiver name. Here's how good the lions are.

Here's how good the lions are. I forgot Aidan Hutchinson on my list. Like I left him off for some reason. And I still have them number one. Jeez. I didn't even future Jamison Williams or Jack Campbell on this list and they're still number one. I can't wait to see how Jared Kauf

screws this up. It's going to be fun to watch. I just got to say it's going to be fun to watch. I can't wait. Well, all right. This was fun, guys. We figured out some young cores. Are there any teams that you feel like you're going to regret leaving off?

Are you worried about it? You guys sold me on the chiefs. I shouldn't penalize them for being on the best statement football. Chicago's one for me. Yeah. Where I could easily look up and see like, all right, they've similar to Green Bay and Detroit. Like they've just added a volume, a high volume of young contributors that you can't ignore. Can I give you my saddest young cores?

Because I was looking through all the young courts. And some of these are just depressing, especially if you use a 25-year-old cutoff. Like the Cowboys, outside of Tyler Smith and CD-LAMS 25, Mazi Smith, like outside of that, it gets pretty bleak, pretty fast. The Panthers might have the worst young court in football, unfortunately. And if you add in the quarterback, like, it makes it look a little worse. Like, you're putting two running backs on that list in Chuba Hubbard

in Jonathan Brooks, the one they just drafted, who hasn't even played. And they go right into the Mount Rushmore of their young core. So a couple of teams. The Broncos are another one. I know I've been spelling new for the Broncos all offseason. I think it's this, they're going to be the worst team in football. I'm calling it right now. I think they're going to be the worst team in football.

The Broncos. Yes. And there's no hope for the future. Yeah, Patrick Certan needs to be the one given friendly trade requests. The Raiders have a funny one because they have two tight ends, like at the top of the list. And after that it kind of falls off. So the Raiders have like a very unique one. I don't know how that's going to work out.

The one that I feel better about, like better than I did before this process is the Chargers. I think they have more young pieces to build around than I assume. I think that team might be a lot better than I thought they would be in year one. I'm I am bought in on the Harbaugh year one turn around there. Almost like not not roster agnostic, but I just I do think that people have. I think the expectations for them are too low. He wins everywhere he goes. He wins immediately everywhere he goes.

All right. Well, good stuff, guys. This is fun. We will be back soon. And guess what? It's almost training camp. It really is coming. It's here.

Stop saying that. Please stop saying that. It's too soon. Literally getting my car fixed as we speak for the training camp tour. We're looking forward to it. It's going to be exciting. That's right. This has been The Ringer NFL show.

I'm Nora Pinciotti. They are Stephen Ruiz and Deonté Lee. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for producing this episode. Thank you to Kiara Givens for her work on socials. And thank you to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal for their additional production supervision. But next up in this feed on Friday, Shiel Capadia and Deontae will have a pod coming up. Very exciting. Can't wait to listen.