The Ringer NFL Show - Antonio Brown, Joe Burrow and Ben Roethlisberger

Episode Date: January 5, 2022

Kevin, James, and Ryan begin the pod by sharing their reactions and insights regarding the Antonio Brown sideline incident. Next, they discuss Joe Burrow and the Bengals' impressive offensive firepower and how it has contributed to their success this season.(18:56) Then they dissect recent comments by Joe Judge (24:44) and Mike Zimmer (29:08), and talk about how teams and players can be affected by them. Finally, Ryan reflects on Ben Roethlisberger's career and what steps the Steelers may take moving forward without him.(33:14) Hosts: Kevin Clark, James Jones, Ryan Shazier Production Assistant: Chris Sutton Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's help everybody. I'm JJ John Hes Tremski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shottown with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. It is during the NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark, filling in for Jason Gough today for the Tuesday show. I'll be joined by Ryan Chazier and James Jones. James, I want to start you off with this, because the story of the week is one of the most bizarre things I've seen in football, and I'm sure it's one of those bizarre things you've seen in football.

It's Antonio Brown leaving the field, quitting the bucks in the third quarter. When you first saw this, James, you thought what? Man, my first thought when I saw was, what's he doing? doing. You know what I mean? Like, you know, instantly I thought like, man, as talented as a player he is, this is his last straw. You know what I mean? So when I seen that, I immediately thought to myself that we'll never see Antonio Brown playing the NFL ever again, which is sad. You know what I'm saying? But then number two, I immediately went to, he needs help, man, and he needs real help. I know Tom Brady tried to do his best, man. I credit Tom Brady. You know, Bruce give him to me. I try to keep him

and all that. I credit Tom Brady. But I instantly just started praying for the brother, man. I really started praying for him, man. And it was like, man, I hope he gets the help he needs, man, and gets right. You know what I mean? Because, I mean, we all know the athlete that he is. When he was with the Raiders, I got a chance to, you know, be around him and all that. He's a good dude, you know. So I just want him to get the proper help, man. And I mean, I know everybody's looking out there, man, on the football side of it. Yes, I mean, you don't quit on your team like that. We've all been benched.

Any Hall of Fame player, anybody you want to talk to as they played this game, they've all been benched. You know what I mean? The coaches have all took them out. I don't know the whole ends and out to the stories. You hear bits of pieces coming out, you know, of the story saying, you know, Bruce Aaron's told him to leave the field. Obviously, he didn't tell him to leave the field like that.

You know what I'm saying? but he told him to leave the field. So we all know, man. I just think Antonio Brown handled the whole situation wrong. You know, obviously he could have did it better. Bruce Arons told you to leave the field. Okay, that's fine, man, you know, walk off the field with my uniform.

All coach told me to leave. I stand to the podium and answer some questions like a man at the end of the game and, you know, Bruce Arons, you've got to do the same. You know what I'm saying? But the way he left was, you know, was ridiculous, you know, to say the least. But, man, to be honest, Keev, man,

like I said, man, I just, I just hope he really gets the proper help, man. You know what I mean? Like, I think this is one of those instances that, you know, F football. You know what I'm? F football, you know, we know he doesn't mess that up and he might not be in the national football league again, but F football, let's help the man before anything worse happens, you know what I'm saying? I wanted to ask about the football part of it, but I just want to, you talked about the help

that he needs going forward and hopefully there's people around him that can do that. Do you think in the NFL right now there's infrastructure, there's resources given when players have these sort of issues and you see it, whether it's in the locker room or on the field. Do you think that's set up right now or could that be improved, James? Oh, no, 100 percent, man. I mean, we have people come in the meeting rooms and Ryan could test to this too. We got people coming to meeting rooms, man, and talk to you about everything and let you know the resources that's out there.

You know what I'm saying? Whatever you may be addicted to, whatever may be going on in your life. We have the NFL has resources to help you in every aspect of your life. You know what I mean? That's why when the Vikings heard about Emerson Griffin, boom. bang right send him right got him help you know what I'm saying you know help him out forget the football aspect side of it man go go get this man some help before you know something it gets worse you know what I'm saying because at the end of the day we've all seen stuff like this happen and get worse and guys end up

in jail or guys you know what I'm saying you never know what can happen so I hope you know what I mean like if I'm the Tampa Bay Buccaneers I know he's not a buckingier no more but I'm sending help and I think that's the right thing to do this dude is been in your locker room for the last two years, you know what I mean? Whether he wants it or not, I'm sending help, man, to make sure that they can help Antonio Brown, you know, get right, man. It just sucks. Like I said, man, good person, good dude. Obviously, you know, great talent. And, you know, you just hate to see situations like this happen. I completely agree with James. The NFL definitely had the parameters to help you when you're

dealing with difficult situations like this. Obviously, this situation is a little bit different than anything we probably seen before, but definitely when you're struggling, like you have an addiction, you're going through mental crisis. The NFL definitely have things in place for it. But the one thing about, you know, addiction, mental crisis,

all those things is accepting to help, you know, knowing that you have a problem going on. And that's the thing that kind of worries me with A.B. A lot of times he's not very accepting of, you know, information sometimes. So that to me, I definitely feel like he needs some help. He needs to talk to somebody,

but it's going to be more about, is he going to be willing to accept it, James, than if, you know, people just, you can send a thousand, a thousand people his way, but if he's going to say no to all of them, you know, it's going to be hard to help somebody like that.

And, right, right, you played with him, man. I mean, just by you playing with him, I know, like I said, I spent some time with A.D., but you being in a locker room playing with him, like I touched on before, I mean, he's a good dude, man. you know what I'm saying? Like it could be really some mental health and all that type stuff.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, did you see signs of this coming? I think it's a combination of a few things. I think it's a combination of mental health. I think it's a combination if he had bad people in his corner. It is just a combination of a stubbornness. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, one thing about him is he knows how good he is.

He knows how much value he brings to teams. So, like, that could be a dangerous mix with somebody that's not willing to accept a lot of criticism from others or, you know, information from others. And the times I've been around him, he's a good dude. Like you said, he's a good dude. But when things aren't really, like, going in the direction that he likes, he's not real upset to, you know, criticism or information if he don't like it. You know, so especially if you have people in your corner that's going to tell you,

hey, you write all the time, James. You never feel like you make a wrong decision. You know what you call them, huh? We call them do boys, them do boys. Yeah, that's exactly what you call them. You got to get them out your corner, man. They ain't going to help you succeed. Yeah, because, like, I don't know what somebody might be telling him right now,

but, you know, somebody can be telling them, hey, man, they wasn't going to let you get you assent of you did the right thing. But at the day, even if they weren't going to let you get your assent of, it's a different way to handle that situation. 100%. And to me, I just feel, I wish he might have more people. in this corner to tell him like, hey, you should handle this situation a little bit better. You should handle that situation better.

And to me, you know, I could be talking, but he might feel like I handle situations the wrong way too, you know? So at a day, I think you're just having people in your corner, but I do feel like he needs help because he was, you know, you know, big-time receivers, you know, some of them, if they have big personalities, they can be kind of divas, you know, can't be, I don't know if James was one before, but they can't be kind of divas. be kind of, you know, high-maintenance type of guys, but, you know, it's a level to it, you know, and when we was playing at Pittsburgh, we always knew that Avey was kind of, he was a guy that was

kind of high-maintenance, he always did a little bit extra, but he never went like this far. And the year I got hurt, and I'm not saying I have anything to do with it, I just started to notice a little bit of change and, like, how he was getting a little bit more, like, bold with a lot of the movements that he will make. And from that point on, you know, we've been kind of seeing everything trickled down to this point. You know, so he's a good dude to be around, but just don't say no to him too much.

Everyone talks about the job Mike Tomlin did, coaching him, obviously. But is that, it's part of that just because A, B, changed over the course of his career and when he became the guy he is now a little bit that they got rid of him, or did Mike Tomlin coach him in a different way, you think? Obviously, you weren't in Tampa, you weren't in Oakland, you weren't in New England, but you weren't there every step of the way. But what did Mike do to coach Antonio in a different way?

So he coaches everybody kind of different. And I think one thing that he does is he tells everybody, hey, you are here until you're no longer needed. Or, like, people want you until you lose the value. And he just keep it real. Like, some people will accept you until we don't need you or something like that. I forgot the exact quote, but he's like, once your value goes down, some of the things that you're doing, it becomes unacceptable. And obviously he's seen that certain players were, you know, high performance players.

So he'll be willing to accept a little bit more of, you know, attitude, not attitude, but more of, you know, shenanigans compared to somebody that doesn't produce as much value. You know, like, obviously, TJ's a all-American type of guy, but TJ could probably get away with a little bit more, especially at the last night compared to, you know, somebody that's just sitting on the bench half the game. So one thing that Coach Thompson, I think he does a really good job, is just understanding where everybody is in their roles

and just coaching them in that role. And then sometimes you might have a diva here and there. And that's one thing I talked to him about when it came to being a coach. I was like, man, how do you deal with all this stuff being a coach. And he said, being in the NFL, you know this stuff is going to happen. He's like, it doesn't, you can be the best coach in the world, but you know that you're going to, you're going to come across personalities that's going to act in, in a wild manner sometimes. He said he knows it's going to happen. You just have to learn how to coach those guys to

help them perform the best for you and still be good teammates to your team. And I feel like he did a good job while he was there for the first, what, seven years of his career. To be honest, what you, man, you didn't hear none of it. out of Pittsburgh until maybe A.B's last year, you know, when everybody started saying, who is it, is it Ben? Is it A.B.? You know what I mean? Whoever it is, and you started hearing little stories. But even when he was at his peak peak, ball and balling, I know that there's probably been many incidents inside that locker, many incidents, you know what I mean, with Coach Tomlin and on the field. And he did the excellent job of making sure, you know what I mean,

that none of this, you know, got to the media, none of this made A.B look bad, always made sure AB was on that field ready to play football. You know what I'm saying? So I give Coach Tomlin, man, a ton of credit, man, because at the end of the day, and Ryan touched on it a little bit, but being a great coach is also knowing and understanding your players.

That's part of being a great coach, you know what I'm saying? So I just look at this situation, and I'm not saying Bruce Erion is right. You know what I'm saying? But from what I've seen from Coach Tomlin, Coach Tomlin knows AB. So I wouldn't see Coach Tomlin saying, get off the field. You know, in the middle of the game, like you bench because in Coach Thomas

says he's like, okay, I know this dude, you know, I got to treat him a little different. You know what I'm saying? So maybe it's AB, come here, man, highlight me, man. Look, you know what I mean? Cool this game off. You know what I'm saying? We'll go in locker room, we'll get this stuff situated, whatever you got to say. You know what I'm saying?

But I just feel like Coach Tomlin would have handled that a different way, knowing and understanding your players. You know, I just hope AB gets his help, but I do credit coach Tom. It could be Coach Aaron's just tired of it. No, 100%. Like, I was your last three. I was literally your last three.

I'll give you every chance. Like, it's multiple times I could have let you go. And now I feel like, and he probably felt like, man, now I feel like you BS in me. So, but like you said, he probably could have handled the situation differently. But he would probably just like, man,

I'm tired of this shit. I'm 100%, man. 100% you know that's what I said I mean shoot I ain't saying Bruce wrong you know because he could have probably like I said it could have been a bunch of stuff Bruce tried to be hiding and going on in the locker room or going on behind closed doors that we don't see and like you said right probably was like you know what bro gone you don't get from here you know what I'm saying like you ain't on this squad no more man we've been dealing with your BS for so yeah you don't know but like I said man at the end of this story whatever anybody says whatever anybody thinks

The story is, at the end of the day, A.B. needs help. Hopefully they send you help. From a football perspective, James, obviously Bruce Ariens didn't want to address it after the game. And I'm curious of your thoughts on this, Ryan, as well. You know, when you have an incident like that with a player, all the locker room is going to look to the head coach, I assume in most situations and see how he handles it. If you're Bruce Ariens right now, what are the next steps? There's a football part of it where they're down a receiver and they're already banged up there. But just from a locker room standpoint, how do you address that with a team?

Well, I mean, kind of like Ryan said, man, I mean, if Bruce Aaron is seeing it, the whole team sees it, you know what I'm saying? So it's not like it's caught catching the team by surprise. You know what I'm saying? You know, yeah, I'm sure some teammates in that locker room like, dang, man, you know, shoot, wish we could have helped him. Mike Evans tried to. You know what I mean? He tried to. You know what I'm saying? Now, what I do wish Bruce would have did, though, when he stood up there, it said what he said. You know what I'm saying? Because for you to say, tell Antonio Brown to get off their feet. and yes, he left the wrong way. But at least you could have got up there like, man, listen, I told him to leave the field. He is no longer a part of his team. And all the other stuff in between is between me and Antonio Brown and the Tampa Bay organization. But I did tell him to leave the field. You know what I'm saying? I tried to tell him to go back in the game.

He didn't want to go back in the game saying his ankle hurt or whatever. And at that time, I felt like he was BS and whatever you want to say. And I told him to leave the field. He decided to leave the field the way he wanted to leave the field. He's no longer a bucking here. I do wish he would have said something because he went up there and he just said he's no longer a buck. You know what I'm saying? So now if you any of these other players and you like, dang man, A.B.

said his ankle hurt, told Coach his ankle hurt he couldn't go back in. He just kicked him off the field. You know what I'm saying? And then went up there and didn't say nothing about it. It's like, dang, coach, when you're going to say you kicked him off? You know what I'm saying? Or you just go keep having Ryan looking bad out here. You know what I'm saying?

At one point, you know, so I do wish he would have said something instead of that. But like Ryan said, I felt like it was just so much built up and so much frustration, probably since A.B. has come into that building, you know, fake vaccination cards and all this. Who knows, whatever else is getting thrown under the bus. And I think Bruce was probably fared up. Like, all right, bro, go on. Yeah, I feel the locker room went, when majority of the time when somebody doesn't make the team or somebody gets cut, everybody that's been there for a while

already know who was going to be. And if you bring in extra drama to the team and you get cut mid-season, everybody kind of already in their heads like, man, if this dude keep acting like this, it's a matter of time. You know, so I think it was more of a, because he could have got kicked off the team

for the vaccination thing. So everybody said, like, he has one straw left. And, you know, to me, you know, I don't, it's always ways to handle situations, but I don't know if A.B. went to the trainer and it was like, hey, man, my ankle messing up. I don't know, you know, I don't know if, but, you know, I know other coaches, if you just go to the coach, if I'm out here just sitting on the sideline by myself, it's a regular game, that coach Thomas said run into the game, and I'm like, nah, he'd be like, why? My ankle hurt.

You were like, you talk to somebody? No, I just, I don't feel right. He's going to be like, man, get in the game or like, go to the locker room or something. Like, because you don't want people on the sideline like that. So I think that the team, they kind of feel the energy. And, you know, the only ones that's really going to be missing AB, like they're going to really miss A.B. Tom is going to miss A.B.

Yeah. Because he already without Chris Godwin. Now he don't got A.B. So now he's throwing it to Tyler and Grunk all day in Mike Evans. And he's still, that's still, you still, you still got. got two dominant players. Yeah, but there ain't nobody blowing it off the top, man. Yeah, they don't have nobody blowing it off the top.

But he still, he still, he still, he's still got two players that can start for anybody in the NFL right now. No, three players, O.J. Howard and all these other guys, too. So they still got, like, so Tom's going to miss them because the weapons around them. But the only guys that's really going to miss A.B. on the sideline is really his friends. Like, guys he close to on the field because everybody else is like, next man up. Tyler Johnson, like, man, man, I hate to see, I hate to see you guys.

gone, bro, but it's my opportunity. You know, so that's how the team kind of think of it is his next man up. You know, it's the NFL. It's not like, they close, but, you know, you're not, he's not getting me paid. I got to get myself paid. Like, Kev, I really think what you're trying to say is, is the buck's going to win this thing. It's over.

No, yeah, they're not winning. No, they're not winning. It's over, man. Like, and that's the thing, too, like, they needed A.B. To go deep in the playoffs or make a run and do what they, supposed to do. They needed him. You know what I'm saying? Like they needed him. Like Tom threw the ball to him in the Carolina game 11, 12 times. Like they needed him. Like he was that dude on the outside. Even when Chris Godwin and Mike Evans was there before AB's ankle injury, he was sending that

thing to AB. You know what I'm saying? So they needed Antonio Brown, man. You have no explosive weapons other than Mike Evans on the outside. Yes, I know you got grown. and O.J. Howard, but it's easy to double those dudes, man. Linebacker safety help over the top. You know what I'm saying? Gronk ain't running away from nobody late in his years. You know what I'm saying? So now you just got to depend on a bunch of young guys. And, you know, it's a big blow, you know, losing AB because AB was that other superstar on the other side. Let's move on to Joe Burrow here because this is the, they won the AFC North,

much to Ryan Chagrin, I'm sure. And Joe Burrow is starting to look like the guy that we thought could be. This is his ceiling. He's reaching it. He is a, looks like he might be on the superstar path, quite frankly. And we had these Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow discussions a couple weeks ago, and that conversation seems to shift every single week at this point. I think there were a lot people who thought that that decision was going to be pro Herbert the entire year. Burroughs making a case for it. Ryan, watching this Bengals team right now, and we've talked about the Bengals before. And you normally are pretty pessimistic about them because, frankly, they're the Bengals. And you played a lot of Bengals games. But seeing this team right now, is Joe Burrow special?

Yeah, no, he's really special. What helps him out is that he might have the best receiving core in the league as well. I know Mike. He has the best receiving core in the league. And a lot of times people don't have the best receiving core in the league and have a top five runner back on your team as well. So with them having a top five runner back and them having the receivers, Joe is just doing his – I'm not saying he's doing his job because he makes plays.

He can spend it. But I think Joe is really a weapon out there. He's somebody that people can believe in in Cincinnati. And I knew that this was going to be a really good team this season. I just didn't know how the AFC North was going to fall. But obviously we see that they were the best team. And then with them having Jemar Chase and having, you know, Higgins having a great season. And I think Joe Burr is going to be a problem for years to come in the AFC North.

You know, I had a chance to play with some great ones, you know. I had a chance to play with Brett Farr, I had a chance, obviously, to play with Aaron Rogers, had a chance to play with Derek Carr. Before I went back to the Packers, I had a chance to be in training camp with Eli Manning. You know, before I retired, I had a chance to be in training camp with Philip Rivers.

You know what I mean? I've been around some great ones. Jojo Burrow is that dude, man. Period. Jojo Burrow is that dude. Jojo Burrow came into Cincinnati, man, and he has them in his second year. in the league, division champs,

and really a team that not too many people want to play in that AFC, especially if you got to come get one of them things at Cincinnati. You like, Joe Joe Burrough is that dude, man. And when I start calling people that dude, I always put them in the category of when they have the ball, I believe they're going to make the right play. when Aaron Rogers has the ball, I believe, I don't, the ball in the air, cameraman ain't even over there.

I'm like, somebody open. You know what I'm saying? Because 12 ain't just like he's going to make the right play. That is how I feel about Jojo Burrow, man. I just feel like when he takes the field and the ball is in his hands, he is going to make the right play. You know what I'm saying? And he's that dude, man.

You're talking about a dude. I know Justin Herbert is balling, but you're talking about Joe Joe Burrow, man. And he, I mean, if he ain't already, he's going to be a top five quarterback in our game next year. It's not, it's probably not five quarterbacks that you're going to take over him right now. And if it is, you're going to be over there's podcast. We're going to be arguing forever about at least the last two. I mean, Cincinnati was at the bottom of the map. Ryan knows.

I mean, playing in that division for so low, you know, every time Cincinnati came on the schedule against Pittsburgh, Ryan was over there like, man, time to pat my stats. You know what I'm saying? Joe Joe Burrow came in there, man, and these dudes is contenders. He's a culture change. I don't care about Joe Mixing. I don't care about the best Y-Receiver group in the National Football League. I don't care about the young studs you got on defense.

That's Joe Burroughs not on that team. You are not in this situation. Knowing what we know about Joe Burrow, obviously, he's special. He's a top five quarterback, as you said. But Jamar Chase just set records. He's, I think, the best rookie receiving record in history. Take me through, having played the position at such a high level, take me through what separates Jamar Chase and why he's having

so much over success. Number one, Joe Joe Burrow. Yeah. No, I'm serious. And the reason why I say that is because I'm the biggest fan of Justin Jefferson. Like, Justin Jefferson is a dog. You can arguably say he's one of the best in the national football. He put him up there with the Devante Adams, the, DeAndre Hopkins, all that. Not Devante Adams. Yes. Not Devonty. Did you see him out? Did you see him out there? No, I see him without Kurt. Adams. Not Devonty Adams. No. Without Kurt. cousin. I see you. Right? Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. And I'm not saying that, you know, buddy that went in the game, you know, is any good for the Minnesota Vikings. But

number one, it starts with the quarterback play. You know what I'm saying? So number one, he has Jojo Burrow. Number two, he's a phenomenal route runner. If you watch Jamar Chase off the line of scrimmage and run routes, he's a phenomenal route runner. And then with the ball in his hands, man, that's the equalizer. I know everybody was getting only early in in the season talking about, man, ain't no white stripe on the NFL football. He's going to be able to catch it and all that. You know what I'm saying?

But he has tremendous ball skills and body control. When you watch him make plays over the shoulder, you watch him catch the back shoulder balls and all that. He has tremendous body control, stays on his feet, and always making an explosive play. You know, Jamar Chase special, man. But it starts with that QB, man, that he got throwing the ball. But easily, hands down, it's not even close.

And I know Mack Jones playing well, but it ain't even close. Offensive rookie of the year, Jamar Chase. I totally agree with James. It's got to be him. It's unbelievable. I mean, you got some arguments, but it ain't close. All right, let's get to coaches say what.

I want to start with Joe Judge and his bizarre rant on Sunday night. It was 11 minutes long, and it was, I don't know, for five different parts, it was one of the strangest things that ever heard. He said that there were multiple Giants players who had left who were trying to get back on the team when they reached for agencies, people call them. He said that on the 2018 Patriots, that he felt like there were coaches on the hot seat,

that team won the Super Bowl, don't know what he was talking about. He said that the players had quit on Pat Schumer, even though they'd won two of their last three. And by the way, he said every player told him that they quit. I'm curious, guys, I'll start with you, Ryan. Can a coach lose a team by what he says to the press when he's just ranting like this?

I think a coach can lose a team. especially by what he says to the press, but also whatever he said to the press, he has somewhat something like that he said to the team. So he said something crazy to the team before, so he's probably lost him already. But, yeah, when you start to talk about wild things in the press, you know, a lot of guys don't try to pay attention to it,

but if you're starting to hear things that you question, it starts to question the lady to the show. of a guy that's supposed to be your leader. And once somebody doesn't see you as a leader anymore, that's when you lose your team. So you can definitely lose your team to a coach that's, you know, rant into the press, especially about, you know, things that don't pertain your team too much.

For me, and I'm a head coach right now, I always tell my players, tell my players, after every loss, put it on coach. Put it on coach. This all me. You know what I'm saying? I'll get y'all coached up. during the week. I do, we'll do our jobs during the week,

but put this on me. I tell my quarterback, if you throw a ball in the dirt, it's your fault. If you throw a dime and these little kids, my little kids out here, they call them dots nowadays. That's a dot. If you throw a dot and the receiver drop it, you pat your chest, you say my fault. That's just how I teach my quarterbacks, it's always your fault. That's the leader of the team. You know what I'm saying? The world knows, the world's seen them drop it.

You know what I'm saying? But just as a, leader of the team, my bad. You know what I'm saying? Pat my chest. You know what I'm saying? As a head coach, when it's everything else but you, your team starts to see that. Your team starts to see that. Like the New York Giants is playing bad, bad football. You just got beat by a terrible Giants, I mean, Bears team and got beat up. You know, you know what I mean? like beat up by one of the worst teams in the national football league. And you come up there and that's what you got to say. Man, you stand up there, man.

You pat your chest. It's my fault. I got to do what I got to do to get this team ready to go and get this team ready to win ball games, man. Yes, that is the fastest way you lose the locker room. That's when you see the coach walking down in the hallway as you grab your breakfast and you don't even look at it. You don't even look at it because, number one, you look at it.

at him like, bro, you ain't supposed to be here too much longer. You know what I'm saying? And number two, bro, that ain't, you know, for you to be the leader of our team, that ain't how you go up there. We all out here trying to win. We all know it don't look right. You know what I'm saying? But you go up there as a leader of your team and you pat your chest,

man, when you come back in this locker room and you getting on our heads about what we got to work on and what we got to do and how we got to do it, that's one thing. But you go up here in this media, man. You can't do that, man. Head coach, man, you always point your finger. at yourself first, patch your chest first. You get your team behind you like that, like, hey, man, our coach riding for us,

even though we getting the brakes beat off us and he can't catch it, he can't run it, he can't throw it, he can't tackle. We all know he can't do none of that. But at the same time, you get up there, you pat your chest first, man. To me, that's a coach. That's how you get your players to ride for you. You know what I mean? You don't get up there throwing nobody up under the bus.

Well said. I've completely agree. I've never been in NFL locker room in that way, but I can imagine that hearing a rant like that where you're just blaming everybody but yourself and blaming other teams and taking shots and other franchises. I just thought it was a disaster. That's crazy.

Yeah, that's crazy. Mike Zimmer throws Callum on the bus. So, Kellynne. They asked Mike Zimmer and said, and if he wants to see Kellanmon. He said not particularly, he's been in practice every single day. I don't know, Ryan.

For a young player, this seems like a pretty bad way to bring a rookie along. You know, sometimes people try to be hard on people and, you know, they try to figure out ways to, you know, use mental, you know, mental toughness on them. But I don't feel like that's the right situation, you know, you know, because at the end day, if that's the guy that's about to lead your team, you know, that's the guy that's

going to lead your team in a certain situation, especially if your leader's not there. You want to let him know that you believe in him, you know, like James said, you want the kids in no way, I got your back, you know, but if you're out here saying, man, do you want, you want to he just got here, play again. I see him every day in practice. I really don't want him out here. Like, wow. So basically you told the whole fan base, man,

you suck, basically. You know, like, he's not good. And I'm not saying that he's not saying that Kellerman sucks or anything, but that's what the fan base is going to get from it. For me, this one is tough for me. This one, this was tough for me because, Ryan, we've been on teams to where somebody gets

hurt and somebody they come to you and they're like, man, what you think about, brother? You're like, yeah. You know, and it don't got nothing to do with mine. Like, that's why I hope he's not too sensitive because this has nothing to do with Zim saying that, you know, you're sorry and all that. Zim just knows watching you every day that you're not ready. But I don't feel like you should say that in the media though. No, you shouldn't say it like that, but just, you know, Zim, Zim angry.

ain't got his start quarterback. He getting beat up to Aaron Roger. Kurt Cousins ain't there. He out of the playoffs. People probably going to be calling for his job. Everything Munn's been showing him at practice, they probably like, Lilbrough is a long ways away from playing in the National Football League. You know what I'm saying? And I've been in situations like that to where I've seen it up close and personal with guys. You know what I'm saying? The start X get hurt. They put the backup Z, you know, at the starting X because we all know. And yes, he's mad, but we all look at it. He's like, you're not really. ready, bro.

You're not ready. Like straight up. You know what I'm saying? So I think that that to me, what Zim did, like if the players are looking at it, like, yeah, mine ain't ready. Once they heard that, they probably looking at Zim like, thank you, Zim.

Just tell them so we ain't got to ask the questions no more. You know what I mean? The young fella ain't ready. You know what I'm saying? So I don't really want to look into that too much. I feel he could have said it like that though, James. He could have said it like that. I see him every day.

He probably could have, right? But they catching you after you just got destroyed. You know what I'm saying? That's like you missing, that's like you missing 10 tackles in the game and a reporter getting up there and he's saying, you know, right, should they have put your backup in?

Your initial reaction might be like, bro, better than me. But everybody else is going to be like, hey, Ryan, you're just going to say he trashed like that. Yeah, no, no, no, you're not. But y'all coming up to me after we done got blasted. I ain't really play well. Talk about my backup.

No, bro. I ain't saying he weak, but he ain't better than me. So Zim saying he ain't weak, but he ain't better than buddy we put in. And that's crazy because we're looking at buddy he put in. Like, Lord have mercy, he got guard. Well, that was the funny thing to me is that I, obviously what Zim said was mean, but like the much meaner thing for Kalamont is starting Sean Manion. Like if he was at, like that action speak loud in the words.

The fact that Mannion, who by the way, was on the COVID list the week before, like it wasn't like he was locked in and practicing all the time. He was out, and so he gets activated and he plays. Like, that to me is, that probably hurt Monda heck of a lot more than anything that Zim said at a press conference. Yeah. The young fella, Maun, just got to go to work, man. It keep getting better, man.

All right, James said to bounce. We're going to finish his segment off with Ryan, who was at the Steelers game on Monday night. Obviously, an emotional game, Ben Ronsberger had announced before the game that it was going to be his last game at home. Heinz Field, retirement is presumed, although it has not been officially announced. Your thoughts on the game? First of all, I thought it was, like you said, a very emotional game. I thought it was a great way for Ben to go out if it was his last game at Hinesfield.

The crowd was so enthused. It was a packed house. It was really loud in there. It was an awesome environment. And then to get the win, Najee literally had one of the best games of his career. I think the best game of his career. And, you know, and Ben had, they had a pretty solid game as well. It was, obviously, it was ups and downs, but I thought it was a really solid game,

and it was a really good way for Ben to go out for him to win his last game at home. And just say thank you to all the fans. It was a real emotional night. I guess the big picture question is having played with Ben Rothesberger, what were your, what was going through your mind when you saw him leaving the field, hugging everybody? I mean, obviously, he's much more beloved in Pittsburgh than maybe he is nationally. He just has a personality where maybe some fan bases don't exactly love him.

But having been on the inside of the locker room and watching that, what went through your mind, Ryan? To me, it was just, it was awesome to see somebody that, you know, they had such a historic career. They've done so much for the city of Pittsburgh. He has a career where he's never had a losing season. It just to be around somebody that's just a bona fide winner, a bona fide

you know football player you know somebody that's a first ballot Hall of Fame to be around somebody like that and just to see that he actually got to leave the game the way he wanted to leave it

a lot of people they they're forced out of the game they don't get to choose when they retire they don't get to choose when they're fired for him to to be able to play his whole career

18 years in one city to be able to provide two Super Bowls and nothing but winning seasons to me it was just a really emotional and just a joyful night for anybody that was in the stadium. A lot of his close friends were in town and it was pretty good

to be able to see him after the game. It was just awesome. His whole family was there. It was a really emotional and impactful night for the city of Pittsburgh because like you said, he brought so much enjoyment

to the city of Pittsburgh and there's a lot of cities that don't get that same type of enjoyment. It's some cities that's gone 20 years of straight losing. And in Pittsburgh, they're so blessed here. It's expected to win. You know, we expected to at least go 500.

And that's because of Ben, you know, especially the last 20 years. So it was awesome to be a part of that. Speaking of those last 20 years, I was interesting, I was talking to a GM a couple of years ago, 2017 and 2018, and they invested a lot in getting a young quarterback. And I said, why'd do that? Everyone's saying you overpaid. And they said, look at that generation before the generation now. Look at Ben Rothesberger. Look at Eli Manning. Look at Peyton Manning if you want to. Look at Tom Brady if you want to. You can hit on a quarterback and then there's no more questions for 20 years, for two decades. And with the exception of some injuries, Ben Rathusberger has been

the answer to the biggest question of football for the Steelers, which is who's your quarterback. And he's been very good at it. And they haven't had to put a lot of thought into it, whether except how much to pay them, when to extend them, and they've done so handsomely. They've extended them at every turn. They haven't really thought about it. But in return, he was a pretty consistent quarterback. As you've said, they never had a losing season.

Where does the team go from here? Where does the franchise go from here? How do you think they're viewing it? Do they try to go out and get an Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson, a big ticket item, or do you think they try to go in-house with Mason Rudolph? If you're Kevin Colbert, you're doing what right now, Ryan? So I know the Steeler way. But I'm going to tell you what I would want to do.

What I would want to do is to be able to get somebody like Aaron Rogers, get somebody that is a, you know, a Russell Wilson, somebody that can come into our locker room, who's a great leader, but who also can help our team win right now. But there's still a way is to build guys from within side. So I don't know if they believe in Mason. I don't know if they believe in Dwayne. so I wouldn't be surprised if they drafted a quarterback,

but the one thing about the Steelers is that they're not going to reach. So, for instance, if they see a quarterback that they like, he would have to fall to where they're at because I don't see them going up and getting somebody because a lot of the quarterbacks in this draft, they are good, but I don't think distillers think they're good enough to go reach for. To me, Kenny Pick is good. Matt Carroll's good.

You know, Sam Howell's good. The guy from Cincinnati's good. But I don't know the Ritter. I don't know if the Steelers think they're good enough to, hey, we're going to go reach for this guy. I feel if they see a guy that they like, he will fall to them. But I think that right now they might just stick to, you know, Mason or find somebody in free agency. I would want him to get Aaron Rogers, but I don't see that happening. Having said that, I mean, it would be if you're Aaron Rogers, if you're Russell Wilson,

and who knows, a year ago, we didn't, or sorry, 18 months ago, we didn't anticipate the idea that Aaron Rogers would want out or that Russell Wilson would want out. Things change very quickly in the quarterback market now, even though neither of those guys ended up moving. But having said that, if you're a veteran who wants to make a move right now, Pittsburgh is a pretty damn good place to put an elite quarterback. Yeah, I think it's a great place to have an elite quarterback. I think it's very enticing.

The only thing I think that's not really enticing about Pittsburgh is the city itself. And the reason I say that, and I love the city of Pittsburgh, I live here. I could have moved. But I would say there is not much to do in the city of Pittsburgh. So if you're a big-ticket quarterback and you want to like, hey, I want to go out consistently. Aaron's coming from Green Bay, Ryan. Yeah, yeah. So your Green Bay is, hey, Pittsburgh is better than Green Bay.

Pittsburgh is better than Green Bay. But, like, it's not, but I feel it's more to do in Seattle than it is in Pittsburgh. Sure. You know, but I could definitely see one of those guys going to New York or something, but I feel that our team has more to present when it comes to winning than, you know, like any of the New York teams. Both of the L.A. teams have quarterbacks. You know, the Vegas team has a quarterback.

So I could definitely see them coming to a team, like, coming to us because we definitely have the weapons. We have, you know, Chase Claypool. We have Deonti Johnson. We have, and then the one thing about the still is they're always going to draft another good receiver. Then the defense inside of ball, Coach Tomlin is going to figure that out. And we had a lot of injuries on defense this year, so that really hurt us as well. But I think our defense is known to be able to recoup, and we already have the offensive pieces to win.

So I could definitely see, you know, Aaron or Russell wanted to get part of that because we have the pieces to have a dominant offense. I want to ask you a slightly unrelated question about this. is because you mentioned the draft success and the history there and how, I mean, I think Kevin Colbert is a top three GM in the NFL. I mean, depending on how you value, I would say Chris Ballard is up there. I would say that Bill Belichick is up there and then Kevin, and you can, depending on the year, rank those three in different order. But when you're going through the process, obviously you talk to more teams and just the Steelers, did they scout you in a different way? Do you feel like they, why are they so successful? Take us through that. So I was actually

part of the scouting process before. And I think one thing that they do a really good job of is that they actually, I don't know how a lot of teams are, but they actually spend time and listen to their scouts. You know, some people, some people, they may, if they're the GM, I think some GMs are so like, I want my guy. You know, I think the Steelers do a really good job of, you know, Mr. Rooney's involved with all the scouting, you know, Kevin's involved. Coach Tomlin is involved.

And then, you know, one thing that I noticed before is Kevin might like a guy. And Kevin would like, hey, I have this guy a first rounder. And then they'll go around the whole scouting room and everybody that had like an opinion on him will rate it. And then some other guys would be like four, four, four, fourth, fifth, fourth, you know. And then the GM may think he's a first rounder, but if everybody around you say, hey, he's a fourth rounder, then Kevin was like, hey, I'll bite the bullet, you know, and let's look back over it again, and if he's not a first rounder, he's a fourth rounder. I feel like a lot of other GMs, you know, they might see a guy a certain way and like what they see,

and they may want to peel the trigger more on the guy that they want compared to what might be best for the team based off of everybody's insight. So I've seen that they did that really well. And then when it comes to just drafting, I think, outside linebackers, linebackers and receivers for the Steelers, I think the reason they do really well in D-Larman is because they have really good players that they've drafted before. So they kind of have a template of what they like when they're recruiting, not when they're scouting a guy in college. So they have a Ryan Shazir, they have a Lawrence Timis. They have a Larry Foote. They have James Fairiers.

They had, you know, Bud Dupree James Harrison. So they see the intangibles that's in those type of guys, T.J. Watts. And I'm like, hey, all right, these are some of the things that I've seen in these guys. These are some of the work ethic in these guys that's off the field. Or some of the things that I've heard about these guys that make them great players. And I think that makes it a little bit easier for them or a better understanding for them when it comes to, especially scouting those positions. Wow. You know, it's funny because I think listeners are going to hear, oh, the Steelers listen to their scouts.

and they're going to think that's normal. That is not normal. Like, that sound you hear, listener, is hundreds of scouts applying to the Pittsburgh Steelers so they could be listened to by the GM. It's not normal. I'm not saying they're the only team that does that. I'm just saying that there are a handful of even successful franchises

where the GM has a lot more say than the scouts. I'll leave it at that. Ryan, thank you so much, James Jones. Next up on this feed is me. I have another show on Wednesday. Charles Robinson from Yahoo will be joining us. talk about a bunch of different things can be an information-packed episode. It's going to be really cool.

Thursday, Nora and Mallory will be here. And then Friday is the weekend preview. That'll be great. Engineering credit to Chris Sutton on this episode with production supervision from Arjuna Ramkopol. There's been the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.