The Ringer NFL Show - Are the Saints Tanking? Plus, the Bengals Fan Experience, Press Man Coverage vs. Tua, and More Big Takeaways From Week 13 | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Ben and Sheil get together to share their reactions to the Buccaneers' furious comeback win over the Saints on 'Monday Night Football.' They then examine Jalen Hurts's irreplaceable role within the Eagles' offensive scheme, and explain why the Bengals are the most fun team in the NFL (8:01). Next, Ben shows us why the 49ers' win on Sunday is not necessarily the blueprint to beat the Dolphins, before they both debate how many teams are in the NFC Super Bowl race (24:11). They end the pod by revealing their predictions for the no. 7 seed in the AFC playoff picture (50:14). Hosts: Ben Solak and Sheil Kapadia Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Would you bet a few thousand dollars that you could sink an eight-foot putt? What about 10 grand that you could win a drag race against a Camero with a thousand horsepower? If you bet two million dollars, could you bet it all on one football game? Maybe you wish you could, but you probably wouldn't. Gamblers is about the people who did. From the Ringer podcast network, listen to Gamblers Season 2 on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Extra point taken. I'm Sheila Kapati.

As always, joined by Ben Solak. I thought we were going to be talking about a snoozer, but it picked up in the fourth quarter. The Bucks beat the Saints 17, 16. We will talk about that game with our first point. If you don't know, you should know the drill by now. We each offer three takes. We finish it with an extra point taken.

We don't share our takes. If it's spicy like last week, we get into it. I know some of you like that one last week. Let's see if we can build on it this week with this episode. Benjamin, how you doing? Oh, we argued about Lamar. I could have remember what it was. We talked so much.

I was like, what did we do last week? The Lamar, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We talked way too much. I talked to you more than I talked to my own family, as I've told you many a time. But we're in week 13. So listen, you're going to miss this when it's gone, when it's February, and you got no one to yell at. You'll be calling me up, giving me an extra point taken.

All right, take number one. Why are the Saints tanking, Benjamin? And so that's my only explanation of what I just watched on my screen here right in front of me. Don't they know they don't have their first round pick next year? Why did they give that game away? If there's something illicit happening with this team, that's the only way I can explain what I just saw. I know everyone's going to be giving Tom Brady as flowers, and we'll get to that. Yes, he led the comeback.

He had two drives in the fourth quarter. I think both those teams stink. I think the division stinks. but I'm looking at a few instances in this game, Benjamin. First of all, 6-11 left, okay? The New Orleans Saints are winning this game 16 to 3. They have a second and eight. They throw the ball to Mark Ingram,

and Mark Ingram steps out a yard short of the first down marker. There's no one near him. Now, listen, he might have been a little, he was a little banged up, so I'm going to give him a little bit of the benefit of the doubt, but he was in the game. It was like one yard. He's literally running to the marker.

There's an orange marker. right there, he runs out of bounds. I go, okay, well, that's a little weird. But then, really, the play I think, I tweeted this should be in the Hall of Fame. Third and one from the Tampa 44. Okay, you're trying to run clock here. You're trying to pick up a first down. The New Orleans Saints call a slant to Marquez Calloway.

His only target of the game, Benjamin. Marcus Callow. Bullet RPO. So it's, there's a cold run unless I really like my one-on-one to the slant, right? And Andy Dalton saw Carlton Davis, I believe it was. I'm 98% sure with Carlton over Marcus Callaway and goes, no. That's my matchup, baby. That's what we've been hunting all night. You don't like that, Andy Dalton. You don't throw that. You don't even need to tag the run with a pass option there. Just run the football. They throw it incomplete. Then

they punt on fourth and one from the Tampa 44. They give the bucks the ball back. The bucks come down. The Bucks score a touchdown. Ten play 91-yard drive. Saints get the ball back. Okay, they're now there. And okay, let's burn some clock mode. Let's make the Bucks use their timeouts. Second and seven after a three-yard run on first down. They say, you know what? We'll be a little sneaky here. Chris Olavé, I know you've been kind of torching those guys all all game long, but you go on the sideline. We're going to go with a nice, heavy package. We'll fool them. We'll run a little play action. We'll hit something downfield. Everyone will be praising us for our guts and our, you know, surprise factor tomorrow.

They run a little play action. And Andy Dalton takes a 10-yard sack. All of a sudden, it's third. Chris Olavay is watching this from the sideline. I would love to know what he was thinking. It's third and 17. Then they're incomplete on 3rd and 17 to Tassam Hill down the field. Good play by Keanu Neal.

And the defense, which had been lights out all game long, gives up another touchdown drive. But, you know, Tom Brady, yes, deserves credit two touchdown drive. in the fourth quarter. Why were the Saints making it so easy for them, Benjamin? Why are they trying to lose this game? I thought they were going to get a win here and say, hey, the NFC South is up for grabs. They did not do that.

What am I missing? Is there any other takeaway from this game? There's nothing that defensive coach loves to do more than trust the defense, man. When it's like, hey, you could trust the defense or you could just trust like the laws of physics, time, science, and the world and just hold the ball and not have to worry about trusting your defense. You just trust the fact that the game clock will expire as it has expired for all of the history of football. That's true for both Dennis Allen, the head coach of the Saints, and also Todd Bulls, the head coach of the Bucks,

because there's going to be some nice, you know, retconning. It's going to be some nice rewriting of history. When we look at that Bucks drive down 13, 8 minutes, two seconds left in the fourth quarter, get the ball at the 25, take a quick sack, get to a fourth and 10 of the 25-706 left. and they put the football away. And everybody's going to say, oh, it worked. It worked. Two Saints, three and outs, two touchdown drives.

Oh, buddy, it did work in the sense that they won. But I don't know if I still feel great about it. I don't know if I love punting down two scores or seven minutes left for the fourth quarter, even at fourth and ten, even on my own 25-yard line. I haven't looked at what the model say, but man, did this feel for 53 minutes? like another game that Todd Bowles was just trying to lose

and only when his back was as far up against the wall as it could get, did the Bucks finally have enough on offense to win? I mean, the Bucks stunk in this game. They got completely outplayed for like 55, 56 minutes of this game and then the Saints come back and blow it at the end. So Tampa improves to 6 and 6 somehow. I don't buy any of it. I'm not going to buy any of the narratives coming out of this game.

That, oh, that might have got him going. That's what we heard about that Rams game. few weeks ago, the offense dunk. I mean, the stats they were, but the graphics they were putting up in this game. At one point, the bucks had gone 15 straight drives with a total of three points. There was this one. Did you see this one on third and ten? They were, they were three for 46 on third and ten or more. The offense was completely out of saying they had nothing going, and then they win it there at the end. So they're six and six. They're probably going to win the division. They're going to be the four seed there. Who knows what can happen in the first.

first round of the playoffs, but I do not take them seriously as Super Bowl contenders. I think they have all the issues I thought they had midway through the fourth quarter. They just happened to win this game. By the way, the Saints, Dennis Allen now, 12 and 36 as an NFL head coach for a 250 winning percentage. Dennis Allen is number one in my, you're a good coordinator, just be a good coordinator rankings. He's such a good DC.

Both those guys tonight, honestly. Right. And like Bowles is up there, but Allen is number one where she's like, I don't know what it is, I can't explain it, just continue to coordinate really good defenses for me. And I just never worry about doing anything more than that. Catch a nice paycheck, go home to your family. There you go.

All right, I got nothing else to say about this game. What is your first take Benjamin? Okay, two-parter. The second half of which will bring a new horizon to extra point taking, a horizon we have yet untouched. So, part number one. I don't know if this is going to be controversial nights. Let's just keep it a buck.

Patrick Mahomes is the MVP. If you would like to talk about another player, okay, that's lovely for you. You're very wrong. We talked about this Dolphins team, and then the season Tua was having a few weeks ago on this show, and you brought up the fact that Tua's EPA per dropback was 0.35, tied for the fifth best season in the last decade of football.

Unbelievable number, historical number. It wasn't just that two, it was having an incredible season. He was having a season for the history books. Patrick Mahomes right now leads the league and EPA ever dropback. 0.31. It's the eighth best number

in the last 10 years of footballing. The only number he's ever put out better in his career was the 2018 season. 0.33. If anybody doesn't remember what Patrick Mahomes did in the 2018 season, won the MVP award. By the way, for those wondering at home,

Tua's dropped down by like tied for 25th. He's like, you know, they've had a couple bad games, or he's had a couple below average games for the numbers he was putting up, and now he's a little bit lower. Mahomes is the clear MVP. They're off a loss to the Bengals, and I still, like, he was averaging 0.5 EPA for a dropback. He was throwing bombs to contested Marquezvalda Scalings on third and tens to put

together scoring drives. In my head, I have no question that Mahomes is an MVP. That's the first half of the take. The second half of the take is that the second place, the runner up for MVP, is also to me, like, very clear at this point. And it's Eagles quarterback Jalen Hertz. We haven't talked about the Eagles on this show because you and I spend a lot of time talking about the Eagles

on a separate show. And so we just kind of inherently don't bring up the team that has only one loss. The Ringers-Filly Special. I mean, at least give it a plug. I mean, come on. It was your first time doing it? Oh, excuse me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we like, like, it's very funny because, like, we just haven't really talked about the league's best team by record. on this show covering the NFL because we have so much Eagles airspace over the Phillies special. Rate reviews and subscribe.

With that said, the Jaylen Hertz performance against Tennessee almost 400 yards passing, with three passing touchdowns, a Russian touchdown to boot, was to me the most impressive performance that Janehirts has had as a pro. This second best game by EPA

for dropback so far this season, but the Titans are a remarkably challenging off a defense to deal with. Off of the broadcast copy, it seemed like a good game. On the, the, the, all 20th, film. They were throwing a lot at it. They were rotating coverages and dropping players and playing different shells.

And they were bringing blitzes in the second half. And so many things that have given Jalen Hertz trouble over the last several weeks, over the last year over his entire pro career, throwing over the middle of the field, post-nap processing, managing a murky pocket, not creating his own pressure, accuracy over the middle of the field, everything that Hertz has had different times, have been different issues from against different defenses. The blitz and identifying, get rid of the ball in time. None of it was an issue against the Tennessee Titans. This after a game in which Hertz showed, like, hey, you know what Justin Fields has been doing? You know how Fields is like running the entire Bears

office with my legs? I could also do that if I needed to. Like, we don't need to do that over here. We're 11 and 1. We got A.J. Brown, Devontes made the Miles Sanders and Dallas Goddard and we got this really good office line. We're great. But if I needed to just carry this whole thing with 150 rushing yards against Green Bay Packers, I could. Don't you forget it? The Eagles offense also, When we talk about most valuable player, I'm always interested in how integral you are to the way your team works, right? Like, I think when you put Hertz up against a player like to a Tongue by Loa, for example, who is very big in the MVP odds, was like, oh, he's going to be a top one, top two MVP odd sort of a player. I think we saw what that offense starts to look like when you take away some of the supporting pieces in terms of Toronto Armset being out and Jayman Waddle being absent for a little bit of the game against the 49ers.

we've seen, I think, in that game and we'll see over the rest of the season, something that's been discussed a lot by film heads like me, which is that Tua is more so a cog in the machine. He's more so a piece of the puzzle in that Dolphins' offense. He has a role and he executes. Hertz enables the Eagles offense. He creates the Eagles offense. He is much more so than a cog in the machine.

He is a keystone. He's an integral piece. Without him, it wouldn't work because the running ability is one of the reasons why the Eagles rushing attack is so successful in terms of the numbers they get in the box. Why do they get so much man coverage on the outside that A.J. Brown can dominate against and Devon DeVosmith can dominate against.

It's because teams feel like they have to play man coverage because they need to get extra players down in the box, because they're afraid of the running game, because Jalen Hertz makes the additional number in the read option game. Like he's the entire Eagles offense precipitates from the talent that Jalen Hertz brings to that position. Even if the offense becomes easier because he has such talented weapons because he has such good play callers,

you couldn't plug and chug another like just good quarterback in and get the same stuff. We talked a little bit about this in relation to Lamar Jackson, in relation to Kyler, Kyleor Murray, could you take some of these other scrambling quarterbacks, the other run first quarterbacks and get them in this offense and have it look the same way and be as productive? No, because Lamar plays the position differently.

Kyler plays a position differently. What Hertz brings in terms of his physicality, what he brings in terms of the accuracy of his go ball, like this is a skill set that the blend of which is pretty rare in the league. I've increasingly become sold on Hertz throughout the course of this season. I'm now emphatically a believer in Hertz

as a second contract player for the Eagles. And I'm a believer that if I were building on MVP ballot, MVP ballot, I would have no hesitation putting Patrick Mahomes first and then no hesitation putting Jalen Hertz second wouldn't have a problem with it. I would not have an issue with you doing that on your MVP ballot.

I mean, like you said, we've talked about Hertz at length. I think we're pretty, I'm on the same page with what you said. I mean, he can one week, he can beat you by running for 150. The next week, he can beat you by throwing for 380. He's a great leader. He's a great teammate. He shows an ability to problem solve.

He shows an ability to his teammates like him. He works on his weaknesses. He's shown an ability to improve the things that he maybe was not so good at last year. And he's having a phenomenal season. And they have the best record in the NFL. And they have one of the five best offenses in the NFL. So yeah, I think that's totally fair. I think Josh Allen absolutely still belongs in that conversation.

They have a top five offense. They have one of the best teams in the NFL. They're the one seed in the AFC. He's been playing with an injury and he's still doing it. I mean, you could easily make the case that you swap those two players. Is the Eagles offense just as good? I mean, yes, with Josh Allen, that's pretty easy for me to say a yes, too. So I think Allen belongs in the conversation.

I'm with you on Mahomes. You know, I think some narratives maybe came out of that Chiefs Bengals game. If you really look at it, the Chiefs only had seven real possessions in that game. I mean, if you look at like EPA per drive, they had the fourth most efficient offense of any team in the NFL in week 13. So don't get me wrong. The Bengals did a great job. That game came down to a fumble and his field goal. Yes, 100%.

When two good teams play, you got two bounces that go the wrong way. That's all that was. That was an excellent game for the Chiefs offense. The Chief's running game works. It, this is like, if the chiefs are good in the postseason and like run through the AFC postseason with a good running game, everybody's going to be like, when did this happen? Like, against the Bengals, when nobody was watching because they lost. Like this running game now works.

They're such a complete team offensively. Yeah, yeah. They're offensive. There should be no takeaways from, I mean, the Bengals did a great job in high leverage situations and they make it tough on quarterbacks. And so they absolutely deserve credit for that. But if you're saying, come out of that game thinking, oh, you know, the chiefs have an issue offensively, that's just completely wrong and not how I see it. So I think that's fair. How you said it?

I mean, if you want to throw Joe Burrow in there for rounding out, a top five, as I think voters are going to get to do this year, he would certainly be in there for me. And I don't even know who my fifth would be. I mean, you could talk me into like a Tyreek Hill as the fifth option defending, depending on how the rest of that dolphin season go. I put Hill in before I put two in, just in terms of the function they serve for that offense. All right. There you go. So I don't, I don't disagree too much. with your take there. It's a good segue because my second one is on the Cincinnati Bengals. And the Bengals, to me, are the most

fun team in the NFL right now. This is a ringer take. This is a vibe take. This is like, you know, if you're like a fan right now without a team, you know, maybe I don't know how your team left you, you ditched a team, whatever, and you're saying like,

who can I, what bandwagon can I jump on? Now, they made the Super Bowl last year, so maybe that's not appealing. but if you just want enjoyment every Sunday, I think the Bengals are that team right now. You can certainly make a case for the Eagles. You can make a case for the Bills, the Chiefs. There are a few others that are probably in the conversation,

but there's so much I love about this team. And if you want to go narrative hunting a little bit, I saw this in the Athletic today or from the Athletics, Bengals Beat writer Paul Deiner Jr. The Bengals got a victory Monday, a Monday off. Jesse Bates shows up at the facility, 9.30 to get treatment. whole team's there. They're getting a lift in.

They're getting, people are just hanging out because everyone likes being around each other. Joe Burroughs getting a lift in. He's watching Brown's film. They're all in there. Listen, you can see that when you watch this team every Sunday. And the way they've evolved, the way they've adjusted,

the way they've addressed their tendencies, it's Burroughs team, and they are better now than they were last year when they made the Super Bowl. I mean, that statistically, offensively, their fourth in EPA per and third in success rate this year. Last year, they were 13th and 19th. It's all over the film, the different ways they can do it. They're more pass-heavy on early downs,

and when they run the football, they're way more efficient than they were last year. It's not just the downfield passing attack. That's still available to them, but they're getting Samajai P. Ryan on the checkdowns. They're getting Tyler Boyd in the middle of the field, and they're taking their one-on-ones on the outside. We talked about the Bengals Chiefs game a minute ago.

another key i mean that third and five with jemar chase where they're just throwing a screen out to him to you slow that down it's four on two you got two guys blocked up it's the dream bowl screen defense it's everything you want they're there that's right if you yeah if you if you want to go back and watch this pause it on that third and five in the fourth quarter and you will see four chiefs two bengals to block four chiefs and then it's jimar chase verse two guys he makes one guy miss gets to the sideline and picks up the first I mean, that was, talk about the difference in the game. Yes, it was the Kelsey Fumble. Yes, it was a missed field goal. But it's also a play like that where it's, hey, we have Jemar Chase. You don't have Jemar Chase. This is a very easy problem to solve on third down. And then I'll

tell you what, Zach Taylor, on third and 11, that final play, I think the Zach Taylor of like the first two, three months of last year might just run the ball there and say, you know what? Let's run the clock. They've used all their timeouts. We'll just run the ball here. We'll knock 40 seconds off the clock, we'll kick a field goal, and then we just have to stop them from scoring a touchdown. I mean, it's third and 11 there. It's not, you know, third and four. It's third and 11 there. He doesn't do that. He puts the ball in Joe Burroughs hands, and Burrow makes an unbelievable throw, even though they don't pick up the stunt on the right side, he makes an unbelievable throw to T. Higgins and converts there. So I love their offense. I love everything about

their offense. I love Burrow. I love Chase. I love the way they're playing. And then defensively, and you guys talked about this on the recap show. I mean, defensively, they just come up with different ways every week to go from playing that Titans team a week ago where you're just going, this is going to be a fight. Let's go. It will be more physical than you. And they were. And then to come back and have to face Patrick Mahomes, the guy who is, it's impossible to confuse Patrick Mahomes.

And again, they did not shut him down, but did they keep him off balance a little bit? Was he unsure of when they're going to blitz, when they're going to drop eight? Yes, there was a little bit of that in some key spots. And so this team can absolutely win the Super Bowl, this Bengals team. But more importantly, and this is a take I've offered, I think, on this show before, the beauty of fandom is those three hours on a Sunday. Are you having a good time? Or are you miserable at the end?

Are you heading to the fridge doing some emotional eating, looking for some leftover pizza, some pasta, maybe some sweets, whatever's in there? Oh my gosh, I can't believe how I just wasted three hours with this team. That sometimes is the fan experience. That's not the fan experience with this team. You're loving every minute of it. You can't get enough, whether it's the games on Sundays, whether it's the social media during the week, whether it's the interviews, whatever. It's so fun to be a Bengals fan right now.

I think they're the most fun team in the NFL. I, okay. So give me your like general metric for fun. How do you calculate fun? What's the formula? I just said it three hours. Do you like the players? Those three hours on a Sunday are just like, this is the best.

Like this is what be, nothing can beat these three hours. I'm spending on a Sunday. On like a Tuesday afternoon, are you searching for like the, oh, who was miced up this week? Let me see. Did your friend send you a text? So look, this guy was miced up this week.

Oh, look at the t-shirt this guy wore to his press conference. Like, you can't get enough because the team is just so likable during the games and during the week. Okay. So you're a big t-shirt to a press conference guy? All right. Okay. Listen, you asked for an example. I'm thinking of the top of my head.

I don't have notes here. I want to make sure. I want to make sure. A hard question. Is a team fun or not? No, it is. Because, like, to me, fun is you score a lot of points. You're probably going to give up a lot of points sometimes, too, because I like those.

I like seeing a lot of points in the game. I like scores and touchdowns and dances. I want you to be generally well-coached because that, like, appeals to me as a writer and as an analyst and as a person who cares about this. But I also do want you to make some bad mistakes so I can get angry. That's a big part of fun for me. You can be a fun team. I need something to yell at.

I need to turn to my wife on the couch, text my mom beg. Can you believe this is going on? Can you believe that's going on? Like, that's part of the experience. That's why I ask about fun teams, right? I think, like, Joe Burrough is one of the most fun players. I think Jumar Chase is one of the most fun players. I think, like, to me, when I think fun team, I think, like, the lions.

The lions to me are hilariously fun team. They are fun. Yeah, they are fun. lot. To me, the C-Ox are so funny. Every time Gino Smith throws a touchdown to Noah Fant, I bust out laughing again that that trade happened and this is the result. You're like, too, like, absurdity is fun to me. You're a deranged individual. Yes. So that's, that's just why I, I want to get the clarification there. All your Bengals points are sound. It's just, fun team means different things to different people. Like, Vikings are a great example. I,

I have been so clear about not liking the Vikings. I don't trust the Vikings. I don't think the Vikings are actually good, so and so forth. Vikings are really fun. I freaking love watching them. They're unbelievable content. Minute 1 to minute 60, they're entertaining. Kirk's doing something done.

Dumb Justin Jefferson wants to punch him. The defense is giving up ridiculous things and getting like crazy turnovers of the goal line. Every game is one score. Such a fun team. Don't like them. Fun football team. Yeah, I would agree with that,

especially if you're a Vikings fan, it was kind of miserable instead. for a while. And this year, you're probably mad at people like me, people like Benjamin, saying that, listen, they're not real contenders, but that shouldn't matter to you. They are a really fun team this year, and they've got a great record. So they would belong in the conversation as well. All right. What is your second take? Okay. We're going football nerdy on this one. Dolphins play the Niners. Forty-Niners beat the Dolphins 33-17. Brock Birdie comes in, Jim and Grapple, everybody knows. Coming into this game on the

on the Friday show, we previewed it, talked a lot about Fred Warner over the middle of the field, too, talking about throwing to the middle of the field, just such a hugely important game with so much visibility on the Dolphins offense against the 49ers defense. I wrote a piece for this game previewing it. And at the end of the piece, I said, like, this is on Friday, I said, this is not going to be a blueprint game. Nobody better say it's a blueprint game. It can be no blueprint.

No other team's going to have a Fred Warner. that it's not going to match up the same way Demico Ryan's. It doesn't matter who wins and how they win. Not a blueprint game. Nobody's allowed to say it. So the 4-9 to be the Dolphins and immediately what are we here all Monday?

Is it a blueprint? Yes or no. This is, okay, let's look at what two it was on pressure, against pressure, dropbacks, what Fred did, where was the ball thrown? Blueprint, not a blueprint. So my take is this. This was not a blueprint game

for how to be the Dolphins defense. However, there is something important to learn in how the Niners play, the Dolphins, and it's not what you think. All the visibility on Fred Warner, middle of the field, middle of the field, middle of the field. You look at Tua's passing chart in this game versus other games, huge gaping hole in the middle of the field.

Usually he dominates 10 to 20 yards between the numbers. In this game, multiple incompletions. They had the big, long touchdown first play, Trent Sherfield. After that, nothing throwing to that area of the field. You're throwing to the outs, throwing to the flats, so much more than were previously. But that's not a blueprint, because you don't. get to bring Fred Warner with you.

All right. You look at how often he was pressure, right? Oh, only pressured on 28.3% of his dropbacks, not that high, but the EPA lost on pressure dropbacks. Negative 15 EPA, the biggest number you've ever seen, they were so good getting pressure on me. That sacks and forced fumbles, incompletions, interceptions. It's all about the pressure, but you're not going to have a Nick Bosa. You're not going to have a Nick Bosa, Anna Samson-Avukom, Anna Charles Omenahoo, going against a line that doesn't have Liamberg, doesn't have front of Armstead. Not a blueprint. The important thing to watch and

this Niners defense against the Dolphins is the way they pressed the receivers in the first half. Next-gen stats. The 4-89ers were aggressive in trying to disrupt the timing of the Dolphins passing game in the first half, aligning in press coverage against 30% of detached routes. So, like, not tight ends, right? Pressing like receivers who are not attached to the formation. To a Tunga Veloa in the first half, negative 26% completion percentage over expectation,

a career low. Why is that important? Because you may not have a Fred. You may not have a Fred Warner. You may not have a Nick Bosa. and have a Domeco, Ryan's, and have the entire gamut of options that the 49ers defense affords you. But the 49ers are not a press coverage team.

This is not a team that acquired and drafted corners and built their defense with the intent to play in press coverage. Yes, they went and got Traverius Ward this offseason. Don't get me wrong. Traverius Ward and important player, valuable player. But the other guys of Diomador-Lanors, second-year fifth round player at Oregon. They played with three safeties, the whole game.

Sean Gibson, Jimmy Ward. They got these guys up on the line pressing. They did not build to play press. So why are they doing it? Because if you are going to disrupt this offense, you have to disrupt the timing at the line. And I know it's Tyreek Hill. And I know it's Jalen Waddle.

But the dolphins faced before this game, the lowest rate of man coverage of any offense in the league. And it's because teams thought, okay, there's no way we can press it. There's no way we can play man. So let's try to play zone good enough to stop the Dolphins offense. And it's just impossible. Unless you got a Fred,

you got a Fred Warner in the middle, you can't play zone. right? It doesn't matter that the Niners stopped them. You can't play zone against. Can't play quarters. The Niners knew this and they understood this. They said, hey, we're not a good press coverage team. But when we get to third and along, if we want time for our pass rush to get home,

if we want this pressure to matter, because two has been so good pressure this year, if we want to make the completions more challenging, if we want to make them hold on the football for more than a second, we have to push these guys by scrimmage. And Tyreek's going to beat us. He's going to do it. Tyreek had 10 targets of three plus yards of separation. He was open the whole game. Next-Gen stats charting.

He's open the whole time. That's Tyreek. He's going to be open. Every game, no matter what you cover, no matter how many you cover him, no matter you get Daryl Revis and Tiki Barber fusion dance out there. You're not going to be able to cover him the whole game. But if you press him,

you're going to win enough third downs to get this team off the field. So it's not a blueprint game because you're not going to have Fred Warner and Nick Bosa and Italinoa Hufanga and Damiko Ryans. You can't take this Niners defensive copy paste it. It's too talented. They do what they always do. and they're so good tackling and they're so good over the middle of the field.

But the one thing they did that was different. The one thing they did that was anti-Niners that was uncharacteristic was they got dudes on the line and they tried to punch Tyreek and Waddle in the mouth. And sometimes they lost. But sometimes they won and those wins mattered, mattered enough to get them off the field,

to build a lead to get the dolphins off script and then win the game. And Mike McDaniel adjusted. They were in more crossing grounds and through the flask and everything like that. Like McDaniel's still going to get his. But that is to me the, only thing that's blueprint about this game.

And when you look at what the charges are going to want to do, coming up against the Dolphins, when you look at what the bills are going to do, coming up against the Dolphins, what the Patriots are going to do, coming up against the Dolphins. These are a lot of very smart defensive coaching staffs. And I think, I anticipate,

I theorize that while they may not do the same stuff the Niners did, don't have Fred Warner, don't the schemes, a quarter of this, that, and the other thing, four-man rush, you're going to see them press on third down. And you're going to see them challenging the receivers at the line. And that, if anything, is going to be the secret

sauce to taking a little bit of wind out of the air of the sales for the Dolphins offense. So your take is that that is one aspect of the 49ers game playing that other teams should try to replicate is to press them at the line. My take is is, is don't look at this Niners game and say it's a blueprint, but don't be surprised if it was the Dolphins offense struggles the rest of the season. It's because of the pressman coverage that was established as a good weapon to use in this Niners game. Okay, but then I will ask you a rhetorical question.

And then we know the answer. why, you know, we're in week 13. So through 12 weeks, why have teams been afraid to try to do that to the dolphins? I mean, you can answer the question, but... Right. So, the Patriots tried to do it a bit in week one. And they honestly had some success.

They just didn't know the tendency yet. Like, we didn't know what this McDaniel 2 offense was going to look like. I think, like, everybody thought it would look more like what it ended up being in the second half of this Niners game, more like actual rollouts. throws to the flats, like, you know, like very, very quick RPO stuff. Like they ran their little favorite RPO wheel thing like 95 times in this game, but it's much more shallow, right?

They're like this Dolphins offense pushes the ball way further down the field. I think a lot of people expected are constantly throwing it. They're like intermediate 20 yards of depth, 22 yards of depth. So I just think like the Patriots didn't know tendency yet. I think if you run the Patriots game back, you'll see success. The Bengals also did this. The Bengals, like the, I think it was the Vaughn Bell interception. I can't recall precisely who it was.

But it was, it was two-man. And so you're playing two men, you have trail technique from the corners. They get up in the line of scrimmage, press, and then you're going to play underneath the receiver. You're going to let Tyree get vertical on you, and then you're going to run behind him. And you're going to have that safety over the top and say, all this intermediate turnaround, intermediate stop stuff that the Dolphins'

offense loves to do, we can bottle this up. Obviously, Tua doesn't play that entire game and kind of the, you don't really see the fruit of that strategy. So those teams kind of tried it, and I didn't think I've got a lot of success. The reality, is that a lot of D.Cs, like the defensive coaches, just coaches in general,

it's arrogant sons of guns. So they're going to look at an offense and say, okay, well, we're obviously not going to play man against the dolphins. Tyreek and J. McHiavadoe. Like,

you can't. You're going to get burned. We have to play zone. We'll play with deep zones. We'll play our safety's really high over the top. So that way we don't get burned. And then guess what happens? The whole game,

Sheel, they get burned. There's the belief that, oh, if we just play zone coverage good enough. If we just execute, coach's favorite word, the big E,

seven letters. If the players just got it right, right? The Bears, right? Out there running cover two against the dolphins. Oh, if Jack Sandborn, rookie linebacker of Wisconsin could just execute his zones against Tyree Kill and Jaylon Waddle. The Texans. Oh, if Christian Harris, rookie lineback out of Alabama, could just be better in zone coverage against this. It's not going to happen. You have to enter the Monday before you play the Dolphins saying, all right, we're going to get cooked nine times. No, no matter what we play. We put 13 dudes on defense. We're going to get burned. So assuming we're going to get burned, knowing we're going to take losses, how can we make sure our wins, as few and as limited as they are, really, really matter.

And that's what the Niners did. They're going to get us sometimes. Trent Shirtfield, 75-yard, catch and run, it's going to happen. But if we can press and be aggressive and win for just a second and a half, it's enough time to get enough hits on Tua that he starts to break down. Tua hates being hit. It is his kryptonite. So it's saying, all right, we are going to lose reps. We play zone, we play, man, quarters, deep, underreed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, we're going to lose reps. What can we do to maximize our wins? And the answer is press man.

Even if Tyreek burns you, the answer is press man. I agree with you that the idea of making Tua hold on to the ball is critical to whatever defensive game plan you have. Now, that could be playing press man like you said. That could be being really good at pre-snap disguise and making him confused about what he's looking at after he turns around, whether it's an under center play action or just a regular play because that is obviously can be their weakness. Now, I'm a little, I'm on the fan, you know, you say like anytime it's that, hey, this is the solution to slow them down,

or you're not even saying that. I hear what you're saying, just giving yourself the best chance to win. I'm kind of like, let's see, you know, they were down to tackles. They didn't have Jalen Waddle the whole game, and they do have great players. I mean, they had Eric Armstead. They had Nick Posse in that game. They have Fred Warren. They had their linebackers running around in that game. Like, I'm sure if Matt Eberfluse is listening to that, he's saying, give me a break. You know, you want to meet it. You want to me to play that way with the guys I have or Lovi-Smith or whoever is the defensive coordinator for the Texans.

So personnel always matters. And when it's a team that's like the Niners, a top five defense that's doing this to every team in the NFL, I think D'Amico Ryan deserves credit. Because like you said, this is out of their identity. This isn't what they do every week. This is what they did this week for this game plan because they thought it gave them the best chance to win. And it did.

But I think it's a good point because they play teams capable of playing this way. They play some very good defenses coming up. Like you mentioned, the Jets, the Patriots, the Bills. These are all very good defenses with very smart coaches. So it's something to keep an eye on. I mean, the obvious reason for why teams don't do that is because they think it's what you said. They're going in going. We're not playing man coverage against these guys.

We're going to get killed. Oh, there's no way we can do this. It'll kill us. They're going to kill you regardless. But coaches don't think that way. Coach is never going to game plan saying, well, we're going to. They're going to get us somehow anyway. No, I mean, very rare for a coach to actually think that.

But I like it. It's a good, good point, good observation, something to keep on with the dolphins in the weeks ahead. I think the dolphins, if they can get a little healthy with their tackles, if waddles out there are still going to be really tough and are going to cook some of these defenses coming up. I thought, you know, that was a great game by the Niners, but it didn't make me think that much less of the dolphins watching that fact.

All right. Number three, my third take. We've said for months, it's a three-team race in the NFC. We said it was the Eagles. We said it was the Cowboys. We said it was the 49ers. As we head into, what is it, week 14, week 14 already. Oh, my goodness.

There we go. It is a two-team race in the NFC. And both those teams play in the same division. Either the Eagles or the Cowboys are going to the Super Bowl. I'm sorry, Niners fans. I don't mean to rain on your parade. You're probably saying, what are you talking about? We just beat the dolphins with Brock Purdy.

That's correct. And listen, crazy things happen. I mean, I have notorious clips of a podcast I did after Carson Wentz went down in 2017, where I said, the season's over, and it basically sounded like a funeral. And then a month later, Nick Fowles is hoisting the Lombardi Trophy. So anything can happen, but it's a different situation, and it's just such a tall task to expect a rookie to leave. the 49ers to the Super Bowl,

given that they're not going to be the number one seed in the NFC, that they're going to have to win multiple games on the road, that if they can't hold off the Seahawks, they might need to win three games on the road. So I'm counting the 49ers out. Old takes exposed, 49ers fans, play this back.

If Brock Purdy leads them, it'll be a fun story, and I will admit that I was wrong, but I don't see it. Then we have the Minnesota Vikings. We just talked about them. I see, I'd like to be careful with how I talk about the Vikings. It's just what you said. If you're a Vikings fan,

you should be mad at people like us because that doesn't matter to you. They're entertaining to you. They're 10 and 2. They're having a really fun season and you should enjoy every minute of it. Having said that, if you're an objective observer asking yourself, can this team make the Super Bowl? They're probably not going to make the Super Bowl. I look this up today, Ben. Last 20 years, okay, there have been 53 teams that have had 10 wins or more through 13 weeks. of the NFL season. The Vikings plus 10 point differential among that group ranks 53rd.

No question. Out of those 53. There's 7 and 0 in one score games. I mean, listen, I know they had the big, people are saying, well, they had the big boss to the Cowboys. Yeah, that counts. The big bosses do count.

And so they've been a very fortunate team. They've been a very lucky team so far this season. They're in a lot of these games, but they're winning every game that they're actually in. that usually does not happen. And so they're going to be in the playoffs. Can they win a playoff game? Absolutely.

Can they get to the Super Bowl? I don't see it. Again, if Kirk Cousins is in Glendale, and they're talking about Kurt Cousins potentially winning a Super Bowl, come back at me, I will take it. That leaves us with the Eagles and the Cowboys. These are two very, very, very good teams, two very complete teams.

The Cowboys are now nine and three with a plus 127 point differential, tops in the NFL. Eagles are 11 and 1. We just talked about them earlier. These two teams can win in a variety of ways. They're relatively healthy. Cowboys lose Anthony Brown, which could be a big deal. They're cornerback in that game.

But on the other side of the ball, Tyron Smith is back practicing. And so maybe what you lose on defense, you make up for on offense there. They can win with their pass rush. They can win with their passing game. They can win with their running game. They can win with creating.

turnovers. They can win in a number of ways. So can the Eagles. Those are the two teams. We're going into the final five weeks. And I already know that one of those teams is going to the Super Bowl. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Is there a sleeper team that I'm missing? I don't disagree that the upcoming NFC playoff race is going to be decided by the two teams, Eagles Cowboys, those are the only two teams I've used as a contender. However, my take, my third take. Okay.

Oh, I like it. Brock Purdy's going to win a playoff game, man. Brock Fordy's going to start it and win a playoff game. Because it was a three team race. You were just crushing him yesterday. I was just listening to the Ringer Recap show. I was like, Ben, it's being really mean to Brock Purdy. Geez, what did Brock Purdy do to you, Ben?

But go ahead. You're flipping it 24 hours later. I was not. I was not being mean to Brock Purdy in the sense of like, wow, he played so poorly in the stall. game like wow he's such a bad quarterback it was being mean to him in a sense that like i watched him for four years at iowa state and i'm legitimately stunned that he was drafted let alone stock on a roster let alone that he's here but he's here now and the reason why he's here and the

coach who's got him here is an important part of this so uh firstly for those of you uh playing at home since 1950 quarterbacks to start a playoff game drafted in round seven or later in their rookie season. One, Doug Flutie, that's the whole list. Lost 13 and 27 in 1987 playoffs to the Washington whatever team they were at the time.

So it was a very rare thing that we got a seventh rounder starting a playoff game. But that's the potential amount we're coming down. There's a couple different ways. There's a couple different, you know, boulders. We've got to dodge here. And there's kind of as we approach this. Number one is this Baker Mayfield idea, right?

Rock Party is the current starter. for the 49ers. They're going to do something else at quarterback. They're going to bring in a veteran. It might be Baker Mayfield is released by the Panthers on Monday. Might be somebody else.

In the event that it's Baker, I am wholly unconvinced that Baker is better for the 49ers offense than Brock Bertie is. The book on Kyle Shanahan's offense, especially Kyle Shanahan's offense with backup quarterbacks, is Kyle will make the good place for you. Like, Devo Samuel, Brandon and I, you, Christian McCaffrey,

the versatility of the running game, certainly the running game has not been as good this year. Like, no, Elijah Mitchell, something to still watch out for as if Brock has to live in long, late-down situations, third and eight, whatever. But generally, like, Kyle will make the good plays for you.

Just point and shoot, throw the ball to who you're supposed to throw it to, and they'll do stuff for you after the catch. Avoiding the negative plays, don't cause problems with sacks. Don't cause problems with interceptions. Don't do the knucklehead stuff. That's the book on what you need

in order to kind of keep yourself afloat in this offense. When you go and you kind of compare like CJ Bethard's games with the Niners, Nick Mullins games with the Niners, Jimmy Garabolo's games with the Niners, and then what Baker Mayfield's on over the course of his career, on a per game basis, yeah, Baker's, you know, throwing the ball more, he's got more passing touchdowns,

but he's also averaging an interception a game below only Mullins. He's averaging 2.3 sacks a game, which is tied for Bethard for the highest number among those quarterbacks. Baker is a negative play quarterback. He invites interceptions, he invites pressure, he invites sacks. He has always been like high risk, high reward in the NFL. There's no reason for Kyle to hitch his wagging to that.

Especially on like a short term, like bringing a guy in, Baker doesn't make sense. They would bring in somebody who's just going to like execute the offense and ask no questions, right? Like they would love for like the Andy Dalton of the world to be available right now. Not playing for the Saints, but just kind of plug him chugging go. Why was Brock Purdy this seventh round undrafted free agent kept is the third quarterback for the 49ers.

Well, it's because that's what he does. Like, watch him play that Dolphins game, man. It's third and 10 unblocked pressure, and he just blindly chucks that thing towards where he thinks a skill player is, right? Like, the timing's got to get better. Like, the arm strength isn't going to be anything. But he's willing to just do what the offense asks him to do.

He's got that total, you know, just like green nature of a rookie who just like anything Kyle says goes. He's never going to go off script. He's going to throw picks because he doesn't have a great arm and he can't get hit and whatever. But if it's just, hey, like screens and handoffs and RPO's, he's never going to make the mistake of trying to be bigger than his boots.

So I think Brock has every opportunity to stave off a free agent, whether Baker or otherwise, but especially Baker, and hold on to this job. And then you look at their schedule. All right, well, it's not great. They have Tampa Bay upcoming, and I don't know, like, before the Saints game, I was like positive they were going to win it. I'm so kind of positive they're going to win it, but whatever.

beyond that, like they have at Seattle against the commanders, those two playoff teams, at the Raiders, home against the Cardinals, if they just win two of those five games, they're making the playoffs. That's a tall ask, but there's nobody kind of better at doing this than Kyle, just taking a weird quarterback, calling some weird plays, winning with defense, winning with a running game, and getting the team into the postseason.

And then get to the postseason and that really weak NFC that made it a three-team race, it's still there. It's still the Bucks is the four seed. And it's still the commanders of the Giants is the sixth seed or the seven seed, right? Like, let's say they end up with the sixth seed. They're facing who? Oh, they're facing the Seahawks. The face of the Seahawks are three.

You telling me you don't think Kyle could beat the Seahawks with Brock Purdy? I kind of think you could beat the Seahawks of Brock Purdy. It's just such a weak division that I'm officially on Brock Purdy's going to win a playoff game train just because the Niners are that talented. And I don't think they're going to have a better quarterback option than him. So why not Brock Purdy winning a playoff game for the 49ers in 2020? Bring it to me. Well, something weird is going to happen.

Because if the season ended today, the 49ers are the division winners and the Giants go to San Francisco to face the Brock Purdy. Daniel Jones, Brock Purdy, you know that game's in prime time. I mean, that is why you pay those billions of dollars for the TV rights. 49ers would be favored in that game. I mean, I feel very confident. Yeah, they would be favored in that game. So, yes, they can win a playoff game. Something weird is going to, I mean, either like a NFC South winner who doesn't finish over 500

or a Brock Purdy team or a Daniel Jones team or a tail, like somebody's got to win a playoff game in the first round. So something weird is going to happen. I think it's going to, not that no one wanted Garapolo to go. go down, but it's going to be interesting to watch this because it's what you said. Kyle Shanahan has always wanted a robot at quarterback. Like if he could just get some AI to go out there and just be like, do exactly, I will train you to do exactly what I want you to do on every play. That would be his dream for a quarterback. And we all look at it when they're playing with Garoppolo and we say,

yeah, but is it Garapolo or is it Shanahan and the supporting cast? And I think usually people come to the conclusion that it's Shanahan and the supporting cast. Yet, when Shanahan has coached the 49ers with anything other than anyone other than Jimmy Garapolo, the team has been bad and the offense has been bad, even if the quarterbacks have put up some counting stats like a Nick Mullins or a C.J. Bethard, I mean, they don't win games and the offense is not efficient, whereas when they have Garapolo, it's a top five efficiency offense pretty much every year he's ever played for them. So now in steps, Purdy, and where is he going to be on this range?

Is he going to be, all right, they can actually do some things because they are, so talented, probably is talented, more talented than they've ever been offensively with the supporting cast, or is it going to look like what it's looked like with some of those other quarterback? So it's going to be interesting to watch. And yet, their defense really gives them a chance in any game, honestly. I mean, they're that good. They can dominate it a game. They can shut out an opponent. No one is really going to light them up offensively. So I think they're going to keep them in a lot of games. And then, I mean, Debo Samuel's performance in that game Sunday was underrated.

I thought when I was rewatching him, he's like taking over the game right now in the fourth quarter. It's been a quiet season for Debo. Like I think by his standards of by last season, whatever. And I feel like last week was just like, all right, we got Brock in here.

That's it. I'm done. Like, I'm just, I'm giving something to hit. Like, I'm just so sick and tired of losing quarterbacks. Yeah, there was a back-to-back plays where he had a nine-yard run and McCaffrey had a 30-yard run.

And you're going, all right, well, this is what it's going to look like probably with Purdy. But I was interested with how Shanahan kind of called that game. I mean, they were calling pass plays on third and ones. They were still sort of being aggressive with Purdy. And it's exactly what you said. I felt like when he knew where to go with the ball, he was okay.

There were a couple of plays where he's like, all right, it's not there. I'm going to buy some time. And you're just like, all right, there's a turnover waiting to happen. And those are going to come with a rookie. But there were certainly some throws where you're like that kind of the throw to the Joanne Jennings. I'm like that looks exactly like Jimmy Garapolo right there. So we'll see how it plays.

place out with the Niners. The health of Elijah Mitchell is so important to this team now. He's placed on IR. They clearly don't want to use McCaffrey as a bell cow because they want to toss the ball to him. And that's like fine. That makes sense. But just like that's been the formula that they've been used to. As they're our backup

saying, let's run, run, run, run, run, run, run. Against the teams you can run against. And like the NFC playoffs have teams you can run against. Seattle, Dallas. New York, right? You can, you can run against these. teams. I don't know if they're going to be able to wake up this running game with with Tyrion Davis

Price and with Mason, Jordan Mason, I want to say, over the course of the next few weeks. Since they may be at a point where they feel like they need to run McCaffrey and now they're not what they want to be on offense and it's weird. But the point that you made about like, hey, they can just win games with defense is also extremely important, right? Like they fade like, let's say they need to beat the Raiders and beat the Cardinals to make the playoffs. They get to week, 17, week 18, they need those two wins.

Yeah. D'Amico is going to give up four. total points in those two games, you know, and then with the talent, they have a defense, especially as the defense rises to the occasion of having the backup in there. I, yeah, I think the Niners are still making the playoffs. Right now, I think 538 has them, like, you know, record-wise, got them like 809, 96%, something in there, obviously not really adjusting for Brock just yet. I think they still make it.

That is hilarious in and of itself. If they win a playoff game, I'm going to lose my mind. Oh, yeah, even the betting markets, they're like even higher than that, even after the purdy injury on. Fandu. I mean, they're almost like a lock to make the playoffs. It's a matter of whether they would win the division or be a wild card team. All right. Speaking of the playoffs, my extra point, we did this a couple weeks ago and I said, I'm going to come back to this because things have happened. Oh, yeah, we'll call back. We're looking at the AFC playoff picture, Benjamin, and we're going to

have to call our shots again updated with who is making the AFC playoff specifically that final wildcard spot. So let me give you the updated look here. The bills right now have the buy in the AFC. They are the one seed. They were the big winners of week 13. They went from the five seed, I think it was, to the one seed. And a buy, they have about a 55% chance at a buy. If you look at the betting markets, the cheese are at 41%. So it's most likely barring something wild, going to be one of those teams with the one seed. Then at the season ended today, the Jets would get in as the seventh seed, and they would go to Kansas City to face the chiefs as big underdogs. The dolphins would be the sixth seed, and they would go to Baltimore to face the Ravens,

the three-seat, which that would be a very fun matchup. And the Bengals, five, another rematch with the Titans, the four-seed in the first round. Having said that, if you just look at the betting markets, the Bills, Chiefs, Ravens, Titans, Bengals, and Dolphins are all like up over. 80% odds to make the playoffs. So do you have an issue with penciling any of those teams in? I don't like the fact that our like massive crescendo into Ravens debate is just now completely null-in-voiced.

There's no more. I find that very irritating. We're just not going to learn anything really. But yeah, that, that will be back, right? We'll say. Okay. All right. So that leaves us with the seven seed.

And your candidates for the seven seed are the new. York Jets, the New England Patriots, and the Los Angeles Chargers. Do you want me to go first, or do you want to go first with who you're going on the record with that is going to be the seventh seed in the AFC? Now, this isn't like that you don't have to be that courageous, because again, we do this every two weeks. You can just keep changing it and then remind people of when you got it right, tell them to forget about it, about what you got wrong. But I felt like it was time for an update after what we said. I think the last time we did this,

Zach Wilson was still the quarterback for the Jets. So it definitely warranted an update. I am very happy to go first, and I'm very confident in my prediction. The Jets of the 7th seat. Oh! I think you're going to say Chargers! I'm so extremely done with these chargers.

I'm just, I'm no longer interested. Firstly, and like, you know, this sounds bananas, but injury update for the Chargers. Sebastian Joseph Day, their only good defensive tackle,

is going to probably be out for the rest of the season. Zion Johnson, good rookie guard, one of the few remaining healthy, good offensive linemen, day-to-day, injury. So firstly, you might have thought the Charter's and nobody else left get hurt. There are more. The only one left is Herbert.

It's just Herbert and Eckler against the world. Nobody else is healthy and it's horrible. That's number one. Number two is, Keenan is so decisively not healthy. Like the Keenan's playing because Mike Williams isn't playing. You watch him. He can't.

Like he can't run. Like he's like running out of bounds. Multiple steps before contacts come in. Like he doesn't got it. They have no like the lack of receiver talent is dire. They are like I think defensively they're going to do the right things against the Dolphins. I think they're going to press the right buttons. And I think they're going to get absolutely boat race.

I just like that don't. The fact that they're up 10 to nothing on the Raiders, they have no idea how to manage that lead. They can't get a stop to get the ball back. giving up on flea flickers. Like right now, Daniel Popper, the athletic writer for the charge,

just wonderful writer, had it that like they're giving up. I can't remember now. I think it's over five yards per carry over the course of the season. It's like the worst number. Yeah, since like that in the 2000s.

You know, so this is just a, it's a pitiful, pitiful team. And it's being dragged to relevancy by like, the combined efforts of a few special players and like the parts of Brant's day that are a good coach.

And that's, that's brought them to six and six. But it's, in terms of like the outside of the quarterback, conversation, they're one of the most disappointing themes in the league. In terms of health and in terms of production, in terms of how the coaching staff manages them, I do not have faith in the chargers.

They're going to be, they have the dolphins and the Titans in the next two weeks. If they're not six and eight, I'll be stunned. So give me the Jets, I don't trust the Patriots for obvious reasons. We've talked about the Patriots. Jets have a great defense. Jets are, they have a dominant takeover unit that has the ability to win them games, even after

the loss of the Vikings, like, yeah, give me the jets of the seven seed. All right, so the extra point taken is The Jets are going to the playoffs. We both believe. We're both picking them. Absolutely. I know you're feeling down.

Jets fans about the way that game transpired on Sunday. You're going, oh, my God, one for six in the red zone. How could we not win that game? Take a breather. You're going to the playoffs. You had 486 yards of offense. You went up and down the field against the Vikings. You got some bad luck.

Garrett Wilson is turning into a star before your eyes. Mike White is operating the offense. Like Ben said, the defense. is a top five unit. They're seven and five right now. They got to hold off the Patriots and charges. This schedule isn't easy, Ben, at Buffalo, Detroit, Jacksonville, at Seattle, at Miami, the final five.

It's not an easy five. I believe in you. Ben believes in you. You will get enough wins to get into the playoffs. The other two teams, listen, the Patriots are not a well-coached team right now. Their offense stinks, and they don't have a lot of talent. Like, unless you're just like, listen, Bill Belichick will figure,

out, which if you want to say that, fine, that team's not going to the playoffs. And then I'm with you. This Chargers team, get out of my life. They should do, give me a one. They should line up on Sunday night and give me a one, two, three, Cancun. Just mail in the rest of the season, go on vacation. You don't need to play out. They score one offensive touchdown against the frickin' Las Vegas Raiders.

And that comes in the middle of the fourth quarter. their defense, 28th in EPA per drive, 31st in success rate. Only the Houston Texans are worse. This team will find a way to blow it. They're not fun. It's the opposite of what I said with the Bengals. They're the most unfun team in the NFL.

They look like they're a bunch of misarobs on the sideline. They're waiting for something terrible to happen. They have no identity. I want nothing to do with the charges. Now, I will say this. Lastly, their schedule, though, Ben. They finish at Indy, Rams, and at Denver. I mean, three of the worst teams.

They'll blow it. They'll blow it. I have no confidence that they beat any of those three teams. Like, yeah, they're better than those teams. I've yet to see them. Like, I have no faith that they emphatically beat teams their worse than. They were facing what the three-win Raiders team in a position where they were looking at a divisional rival. Think about, think about, like, oh, I'm getting angry.

You and I both think Justin Herbert to be our preseason MVP, right? I'm like, oh, you know, Justin Herbert's awesome. This isn't a Justin Herbert take. Right, right, right. No, absolutely. Herbert's the man. And when we talked with that, I remember doing that preseason pie with you, we were like, one of the things is like, if the Chargers come out of this division, how can you not?

If they're AFC, West, this and that. Imagine you would go back in time and tell young Ben and young shield, you still had hair. I still had Dolphins fans who liked me. And tell them, hey, guess what? the Raiders and the Broncos are going to suck. They're going to be so bad. The Chargers are going to win 12 games. What the Eagles and the Cowboys are now,

we would have thought the Chiefs and the Chargers would be in their division. Like, all right, one's going to be the one C, one C, one's going to be the five C, but these are the defining teams in the AFC. They had a cakewalk in the division, man. They had it easier than we thought. And they just are doing, I'm getting angry. The day Joe Lombardi learns, you're allowed to move the pocket

and the NFL is going to blow his mind. I watched 40 years of NFL football. I was raising a Lombardi family and I didn't know you can move the pocket. He's still calling football. Like Vince is the head coaching of the sidelines. Holy Moses, man. I can't with this team.

Frustrating team. I know they have injuries, so don't come at me and talk to me about the injuries. I understand it, especially on the offensive line. But yeah, I am not in on that team. So there you go, Jets fans. You can't complain about no one giving your team any credit

or thinking that your team is going to do The Jets are the official seven seed of extra point taken. All right. Now we'll do it. Another episode in the books. Week 13 in the books. We're coming to week 14. We'll be back next week.

Thank you to everyone for listening. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ram Gopal. We will talk to you next Monday.