The Ringer NFL Show - Bears Fire Nagy and Pace, Yet Still Get It Wrong

Episode Date: January 11, 2022

Jason Goff of "The Full Go" brings you a bonus podcast to react to the news of the Bears firing Matt Nagy and Ryan Pace. He brings on Laurence Holmes from 670 The Score to help break down George McCaskey’s press conference from earlier in the day (16:20). They go deep into the issues going on inside Halas Hall (18:54) and discuss why they chose Bill Polian to help their GM and head coach (23:49). They also discuss McCaskey calling out former Bears center Olin Kreutz before Laurence predicts where the franchise will go from here (32:38). Host: Jason Goff Guest: Laurence Holmes Producers: Steve Ceruti, Chris Tannehill, and Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's good, everybody? I'm John G. Stremski, host of New York, New York with JJ, the first podcast on the Ringer and Spotify, dedicated to you, the New York Sports fan. We've got episode three nights a week, plus bonus episodes whenever news breaks. So make sure you follow the show on Spotify. Chicago everywhere, check it. What up, world? You're listening to The Full Goal with Jason Golf presented by the ringer, a Spotify original. Yeah, yeah. He fucked up today, man. He started the press conference by bringing up Jeff Dickerson and his kid. And then transitioning that into you should understand how important children are. Why would you boo?

Why would you boo Matt Nagy and his kids at a high school game and all these other things? You know, like he, it was, it was reprehensible from the jump, from the jump. And what's happening is, you know, this is an obvious. a insulated family. Like it's it's 20, 30 of them. So they're their own little community. And they don't have any idea what's going on outside their homes or outside their little echo chamber. So when they do shit like this, when they have to creep out here every four or five years, you realize how withdrawn they are and how removed from reality, not just football, not just business, but interpersonal social skills in reality. There's no reason. There's no reason.

Even if you want to say, you know, Jeff, we want to, this is our first chance to get a chance to speak about Jeff Dickerson. It's a terrible tragedy. He was a great, he was a great coworker, essentially. And leave it at that. You say, and now to the business at hand. Or you make sure it's a clear departure from what you're stating. The problem is, man, the bears, and like I've been saying these last few pods, the shit that's happening on the field is, I think the least of their problems. What's happening is they don't have in place the people who will prepare them for moments like this. They don't have in place the people who are prepared for moments like this, right? So it's not like you just got a talented-ass dude or a group of people who are like, all right, this is a shitty situation. So this is how we're going to maneuver it. Or you got some bumbling fucking idiot with talented people around them to say,

okay, this is how we should handle it. They've got neither. there. So anytime they, they creep out of here. They brought up Bill Polion seven times today. It's been Ernie O'Corsi the last two times. It's going to be Bill Polion this time and it'll probably be Tony Dungey next time. You know, like I keep, there's a reason why, and I know it's like foreign, obviously, because you guys aren't piped into what's happening here, but it's a reason why I keep mentioning the shit I'm mentioning. And it's stuff that I would get into, but I, you know, you got to read between the lines, a lot of shit that I'm saying,

and a lot of people in this city understand it. They, they're just fucked up, man. Like, they don't understand the business that they're in, yet they condescend and patronize people who kind of understand it better than them and are asking them, like, explicitly. Like, all the questions today were like, hey, man, y'all are fucked up. It's not the coaches or the GMs. You just keep making the fucked up decisions because y'all have fucked up.

And it didn't get through to him. Five people asked the same question in different ways today. And he couldn't pick up on it. You know, they just, you know what it is? You ever been around rich people, like people who are wealthy? And you're like, oh, this is just different. Like, they're on a different plane. That's who these people are.

they aren't a part of realistic situations often enough so that when it's time to speak of a firing, like we all have to. You either fired somebody, you've been fired, you kind of know how you should go about it. You know how,

and especially in the business. I mean, how many press conferences are we going to have to see year in and year out? You've been in this fucking business for a hundred years now, and you're still eliciting the

advice of people who aren't in the business anymore. Like the people who are just like you, but kind of not, right? Like Ernie O'Corsi and Bill Pollyan aren't in the business of football anymore. They're just football people. So what you're telling me is you need football people who aren't in the business anymore to find the people who are in the business. Bill Pollyon is 79 years old.

Bill Pollyne's last major notable moment was saying that Lamar Jackson should be moved to wide receiver or running back. You know, like, what do you? what are you fucking doing here. And all Bears fans have to, and that's why I, dude, I am on a mission. Like, fuck the NFL. We can't wait to say fuck all these other sports. We can't wait.

And I know it's probably not the best thing for me, but I say it in my own way. We can't wait to shit on basketball. It's all dunks or three-pointers. These guys are too cool with each other. It's that and the other. Or, you know, with baseball, it's all strikeouts. You know, the game's moving too slow. Everybody's got grimes with football.

They change the rules every single year. so that teams can't stay shitty. So, you know what I mean? So there's a new way, there's a new exploitable window every three or four years in football. And for you to stay this bad, this long, it's a master class in ineptitude.

And there's a reason why the family business is making money. All right? And for too long now, they've been looking around at all these other teams that are shit, making money. And they're like,

hey, we could be shit. Why are we making as much money? Oh, the stadium's too small. So Arlington Heights says, was asked about four or five times in his press comments. That's the only time they felt comfortable. It's the only time. And furthermore, dog, like the Justin Fields piece,

the fact that they were as non-committal as they were about hiring a coach who's going to have the quarterback's best interest in mind, three different reporters asked, like, hey, by the way, is a disqualifier in this thing that if you come in here and you don't have Justin Fields in mind as the head? as the number one quarterback that you just, you're not going to give the job. He could not say yes to that.

So I'm sitting here, if I'm the pick that you traded up to get in the draft last year, and then fucked around and got me all, beat to hell, beat to hell, right? I'm sitting in the cut. Like, wait a minute,

you can't even say that if a motherfucker that you hire that comes in here thinks that I'm not the person, that I'm just shit out of luck, like, what are we talking about here? this is just it's it's it is it is incompetence at its finest right and and and and i don't care man i treat the security guards and the janitors the same way i treat the CEOs and the bosses that i've ever had the organ you know the the people in the organization high up to me as important as the people who are supposedly below you the problem is the problem is these fucking guys

don't understand that you can't just put a suit on incompetence and think that everybody supposed to swallow it because they walk around like only cruz was just on the radio detailing how these fucking yes detailing detailing detailing detailing what happened he only cruz got offered this is by the way five-time pro bowler four-time brian piccolo award winner and if you know anything about you know the walter peyton man of the year award is big in the NFL but you know the bears bears had walter paeaten their presence. The Brian Piccolo Award is pretty much what the Walter Payton Man of the Year award is to the NFL.

That's what the Brian Piccolo Award is for the Bears. And it's a very important situation. Very, very important, right? This dude won that four times in that building. So people in that building in that organization respected this man and not four times in his nine years in the NFL to respect him and say, hey man,

you're the best dude in this building. He was a captain for this team six years out of his nine years on the team. You offered him $15, an hour to come in as a consultant under Harry He stand, the offensive line coach. Like, that's despicable. So when he says it, when he says it and calls you on your bullshit, you should just eat it. You should just eat it.

But instead, you go on fucking television and I'm sorry on a Zoom call with national media on it, local media on it, and you find the time to say that I take things that Olin Cruz has to say with a grain of salt. what did you think Olin Cruz is going to do? This dude has fought his entire life. This is one of the, this is one of the, like, I love him to death because I get a chance to work with him now. And on top of that, I fucked with him when he was on the bears.

Like, he was one of the few dudes who I was like, oh, he's not an asshole. He's just a straight shooter. Like, you find out how truth makes people uncomfortable. And in that moment, that fucking guy could, as the head of the organization, could not help himself, could not help himself instead of. saying, you know what, we'll have to talk to Olin about that. That might have been an oversight on our part or whatever the case may be, even if Olin is fucking lying his ass off.

Even if he's lying, right? It's the way you handle that like a G, right? You say, you know what? We don't know the accounts of that story to be that way, but we would check in with Olin to make sure that no disrespect was received. Or, you know, to make sure that we're not handling business that way with our former players. You go out there and say, I take most things that he says with a grain of salt. And then you get asked about it again and you say pretty much that there's more to that story.

Olin Kroote's thing goes on the radio 30 minutes later and then follows it up with, I just talked to Harry Heistan and Ryan Pace, the two people who offered me that gig with $15 an hour attached to it. Like, what did you think was going to happen? You thought he was going to take it? And then on top of it, brother, like, this man, this man risked his life for 10 years in your organization. You got paid handsomely, right? But you know what happened to him.

Like, he's an NFL center for 10 years. He talked about a Liz Frank injury that he had while Mike Tice was the head coach, and he told him that he thought he broke his foot in the third quarter of a game. Mike Tice asked him, can you finish the game? And he said, of course. He then went to go meet with the Indianapolis doctors and found out exactly what he thought had happened to his foot had happened. Like, there are a bunch of players running around with these stories and have been treated this way.

He said he's had three conversations with George McCasky. In the 20-some odd years, he's been either on the Bears or around the Bears or in the Chicago-land area. And one of them was because a guy walked up to the ticket office, which George was actually running before he got elevated to this place in this position. He said that a guy, a player, walked up to the ticket office shirtless, you know, just checking in on his tickets from the locker room, whatever the case may be. and George McCasky screamed at him

and Olin Cruz kind of, you know, Olin was the, Olin was the big brother in the locker room. Sometimes bully, you know, don't ever get it twisted. Like Olin Cruz is not to be trifled with, but he'd taken up for a dude and was like, hey, you don't do that. And he said from then on, they never spoke again.

Like, think about that. One of the most respected players in your team's history and a member of your organization that's as high up as that, like, what are you saying to the rest of the NFL? Like, what are you saying to the rest? It's just, as Bears fans, we're fucked, dude. And it's not even, like, I'm laughing at this whole thing while listening to it.

But I know what it is. Like, we're fucked. We have to wait for something to drop in our laps. It's as simple as that. Because these guys and gals, this crew, this dude, they instill no confidence. They inspire no confidence in me. And it's not even to the point anymore where it's laughable because of how he started off that press conference. You got a fucking kid who is grieving.

It's an 11-year-old who has no idea what the hell is going on in his life right now. Right? I can't imagine what's going on with that young man and a family that's grieving. And you start that. You use that as cover so you can get into, hey, y'all shouldn't abode Matt Nagy's kid at a high school football game. Like, the departure from reality is, is unfortunate, man. It's unfortunate. And the even worst part is I don't fear.

I know that there are a bunch of ownership groups around the NFL exactly like this one. So the fact that every Sunday, Monday, and Thursday is pretty much a weekly national holiday. Just begs the question, how much are you really doing? If it's not about the money, then what the fuck are we really talking about out here? Right? Like, some masterclass of in ineptitude, and it will continue to be. I have no faith in this organization, none. And I hate to put it this way, but, you know, Blackhawks fans, the moment Bill Words died was like, yes, there can be something different in our lives.

People were celebrating death because they know once an ownership group is, is, it's, you know, in tow, you're at their mercy. I don't like being at this one's mercy. It's as simple as that. And we have to be because this is the team that we all root for in this city. The full goal with Jason Gough. Bears talk with Jason Gough on the full goal.

And the kick is good for the win. Fade two black. Brought to you by the Ringer, a Spotify original. That was a sad, sad display. Like, it went from anger to like, hey, what's up, Lawrence? What's up, Jay?

She's talking to the guys about the bullshit that we continue to endure here. And they see, we're already recording, man. I, you know, my main man, Lawrence Holmes, joining us here on the full goal podcast. Lawrence, this is going to be one for the ages. This press conference, when are coming to this thing, like 01, 2000, I think I interned. You've been in this before me. You're one of the dudes who I not only respect, but I look up to in this business. If you don't know, if you're listening to the full goal podcast, you know who Lawrence Holmes is.

Midday host here in Chicago on Sports Radio 670 to score. Man, I haven't called it Sports Radio 670 the score in forever, by the way. I almost hit you with a sports radio 820 for the initiated, right? this man has done terrific work both on radio and TV in this city for 20 plus years and the

the owner of a podcast network that I am a big fan of I've been on his pod and unlike this moment I think there will be no crying on this pod yes unlike that moment I should say

the great Lawrence Holmes a friend, a brother, and a dude I look to in moments where Serudi and Jesse, this is the thing. I don't know if you guys watch the boondocks, but, you know, the whole Huey and Riley vibes that those two that we have is probably going to come in here. L, I don't know, man. That was nasty.

Yeah. Top to bottom, it was nasty. Give me your thoughts. I've been talking to the guys. guys and to the listeners about it. But give me your thoughts on what you just took in as the Bears to have decided to move on from Ryan Pace and Matt Nagy. And we go from here, but it didn't instill and inspire a lot of confidence in me as a

Bears fan. So I have a lot of feelings, and one of them is anger. And the thing that I'm most angry about doesn't have a lot to do with football. It has to do with what happened at the beginning in a prepared statement. you and I are both friends with Jeff Dickerson. I hate it that George McCasky invoked his name and the name of his son Parker to then use that as a way for him to kind of wag his finger at everyone,

like, oh, being mean to Matt Nagy at a game. I agree that what happened to Matt Nagy's son at the game was ridiculous. Agreed. But what was more ridiculous was in a written statement, You decided to use the death of one of our friends and colleagues as a cudgel, as a way for you to get in front of something and act like you were our grandfather trying to tell us that we were doing something wrong. That set a bad tone for me from the moment that the press conference started.

And these are questions that you and I have had in the score studios, even when we're out. Who's advising you? like who who looked at that and said yeah man this strikes the right tone right here let's take what was a good moment you talking about how great jd was at his job how many people loved and adored jd and then let's then let's completely distort it and warp it and use it to your own advantage to say something about a guy that that you who you were firing who you were firing i i was disgusted by it jay Like it really, really bothered me.

And I had to regroup inside of reacting to it live because it made me so mad. And then we get to Ted's on the call to. Jay, what? Just the cord that you want to strike with Bears fans who have been asking for this to stop. Every time this happens, we say, hey, what is he doing here? Like, what's really happening? why is he still a part of this? Is he a part of the bad decision making?

But go ahead, my bad, brother. It just, it shows a lack of forethought from them organizationally. If your big, if your thesis statement that you wanted to get out there today was, we are changing the way that we do things. The GM will now report to me. If that was your thesis statement, then you should have made sure that Ted wasn't anywhere near this press conference, because that would have gone a long way to show people that he's not in the room.

You put him in the room and you put him in the Zoom. And all of that did was like, it doesn't matter what you say. Because you've now invited Ted Phillips onto this thing. Now, I have a very, what I think is a controversial feeling about Ted Phillips. I understand why Ted Phillips is there. Ted Phillips has made that family billions, not million. He's made them billions of dollars. And he's protected them in the event that Virginia McCasky passes away.

He's protected them so that they can easily sell the team because the tax implications of her will are huge. So he's put them in a great position. So I understand why Ted is involved. They could have very easily done what the Cubs did a few years ago when Theo Epstein came in the town. Division of Labor. And George could have spelled that out and he could have done a better job of spelling it out today. He tried, but then he backtracked. He said that the GM is going to report to him, but then he's going to go to Ted.

By the end of the press conference, Ted found his way back into all of the situations. that we thought he was being removed from. Yeah, it's really, it's, it's ham-handed. And then we get to the Bill Polly and stuff. And maybe it hits different for us, Jay. I mean, I think that it's possible that it maybe is a little bit more sensitive to us. But even if you're not black, if you're not, if you're not someone that grew up hoping that black quarterbacks

would get an opportunity to, to rise and shine, in the league. Even if you're someone that was sitting there a few years ago looking at Bill Polian on TV, like our white brothers and sisters looking at Bill Polion on TV after seeing Lamar Jackson when the Hizman be like, no, he's not a wide receiver nor is a running back. Right. He's a quarterback. And it takes a visionary like Ozzie Newsom and Eric DeCosta and Jim and John Harbaugh to go, we can work with that. Like look at, he's going to be the most athletic player on the field, why not have the ball in his hands more

times than not? And he's been a thrower since he was seven years old. Come on. He's played no other position since he was a child. Jay, Jay, Jay, you know, you know, so what? Say Ryan Tannahill, fan. Right, right.

He's not Ryan Tannier. Ryan Tannier. Ryan Tannoh was out here playing wide receiver blocking all the trackbacks and stuff. Like, for real. You know, Lamar Jackson who wasn't doing that. Lamar Jackson was running around people and throwing a ball 60 yards.

Like it's, and what it was, I love the fact that switching positions now, Ryan Tannenhill is the, is the face of it. What do we call him? We were out,

watching playoff games. We renamed him Riante. Oh, shit. Yes. Yes. Because he got that Riante type game. Oh.

The Reggie Cleveland All-Star, the known as Ryan Tannett. You know, you got to rename that, bro. You know that man name is Jamal Tannerhill now, you know? Right, right. Jamal out here running around. Wait, Jamal played receiver? All right. In the Vits, well, Jamal played receiver.

Oh, okay. We see Jamal. You ain't shit. Go ahead. Him and Jaheim Allen. All right. No, no, no. You ain't going to mess around with my man.

Josh Jenkins out there, Buffalo. All right? We know we know undercover brothers when we see one. We know what's going on. All that Cam Newton talk. We know what's happening out there. That's right. But I digress.

I took you out of Chalain once again. My bad brother. And you know, hey, shout out to the brothers that don't just look it, but they feel it like my man Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow out here, living, living. Listen, listen. Joe Burrow, let me tell you something. Joe Burrow and Kyle Corver, I can just look in the eyes and know,

I know what you're all playing. Yes. Like Pat Riley back in the day. So anyway, I'm listening to him. I'm listening to George McCaskey, like break all this stuff down and him talking about the importance of having Bill Pollan. I'm not saying that you shouldn't talk to Bill Polion. I would, I would, if someone said to me,

hey, Bill Polion would like to talk to you about the Bears, I would talk to him, but they've put him in charge of this like they did with Ernie of Corsi. And I thought that all of the reporters that were on the call did a wonderful job of being like, why is this different? Why is this different from what you did seven years ago?

This is the same thing. It's just a different name. And George thinks that he's going to drop Bill Pollian's name. And we're all going to be like, and to a certain degree, for some of my colleagues, there was some of that that went on. And it's ridiculous.

Yes, that man is in the Hall of Fame. And we shouldn't discard that, but that doesn't mean that he's up to date on what's happening in the league. And because he still watches games, that doesn't mean that he's still in it. So I thought that that was problematic, Jay. Like, I really, I struggle with,

who is it that's advising them? Like, I was surprised that they let go of Ryan. and Pace and Matt Nagy together pleasantly. Like, it made all the sense in the world. And here was their opportunity. There was an opportunity to win today. Absolutely. It would have been a

win, Jay. That's what I can't get over. It would have been a really easy win. And who's helping you get ready for stuff like this? Because whoever it is, they need to go. Because they didn't have your best interest in mind.

If I was sitting in in the role of PR person advisor advisor and I would have seen his eight minutes I would have taken a red pen to that shit like nobody's business George you don't need to do any of this George come up here and say

Ryan and Matt are great people they didn't win enough I'll take your questions that's all you got to do that's it that's it if it because when you start to meander and go off into the hinterlands of bottom line business This is a bottom line. Well, guess what, fam?

You are bankrupting the business. You are. Like, for the last 10 episodes, I've sat here and watched Bears game after Bears game come in here on a Sunday and said, ah, you know, bears stuck. Matt Nagy in his offense. Oh, Justin Fields got his ass whooped.

I wonder why Tevin Jenkins ain't playing these last two games. But guess what? The shit that's happening on the field is minuscule to compare to the people who are going to continue. to make this shit happen on the field. Like, I have no confidence that they're going to find the right person. Like, even so much so

that the person that they pick if it's the person that I like, I'm going to doubt if I should like them. That's where I'm at with it. That's where I'm at with it. You're not alone in that. And I hear you, I hear you having to bring some Rudy along in this.

No, man. Explaning a dysfunctional bullshit in this city, man. I listen to the episodes, and I'm like, I can see the J's getting ready to get real man right now when he's stopping himself because he don't want everybody to know how how much did the Bears mean to you like that

and that's where a lot of fans are like when they were reports surfacing over the last week that maybe they would promote Ryan Pace up that was what the last episode was about I was like, all right. If that's what you want to do then there are bigger problems and so the Bears found a way to take a win

and turn it into a loss within four hours. It's amazing. Like they ran. It's uncanny. They ran to it. Like when every Bears fan is like, amen, hallelujah.

Finally we got an opportunity to get things done in a more, a productive way. Here come George with that same bullshit. And here he can come. Kind of doing this little shuffle thing and trying to be cute. And I'm glad, man, You already know.

You know. When he got checked on the press conference today, he's talking that shit to David Hall. And David Hall was like, yo. That's not. That's what we're going to draw the line. Yeah. And for the people who didn't catch the press conference today,

you know, David Hall, who is one half of the morning show on 670 the score, who also is a columnist and has covered the bears for a long time in this city now. Worked as a beat reporter before he became. you know, primarily a Bears columnist, but a columnist, nonetheless, has done the job in one of the most respectful ways that one can do it. Like, Dave is one of those, like, that's a real dude. And he's an old head, though, so he had trouble turning his mute off, unmuting himself. And don't worry, he's going to get shit for that.

But George tried to play in with the Okie Doe, and he was ready. Like, David was ready. And I loved it. Pottsy was ready. And Jason was ready. Hogue was ready. Patrick Finley was ready. Every, her, he was right. All of these dudes were ready.

Joseph Flos? Joseph Fulose. I did not think I would hear, quote, shade your age in this press conference. It all speaks to the same stuff. Like I had, because these days I keep notes in Twitter. and then I keep him in my notes file and whatever, whichever way I get to them,

however fast I get to either one, that's what I try to, you know, go off of. I'm sitting in the cut, and I said he doesn't get that all these questions are about him and his cohorts and less about what we already know about this football team that we've watched. We've watched a bad football already.

We want to know about you. I'm not, like, this ain't about who your next coach is going to be, who your next GM is going to be. What has changed in you? If y'all got a muffler shop for 100 years, right? And you guys are doing oil changes and brake services and collision? Are you doing a whole kid and caboodle? Why are you going outside and trying to figure out what the Cassidy tires down the street is doing?

Or can you guys help us hire our next manager? Can you guys help us hire our next, you know, a finance person? Can you guys help us, you know, find our next owner? Like, what's happening here? You've been in the business of this for 100 years, 100 of them. a hundred of them. Just do, guess what? If I'm so bad at something,

I'd know to cross that off. Like, there are certain things. I know I can't do in this job. Guess what? You ain't going to ask me to do it. And if you has me to do it, I'm going to say no, because I'm not going to let you catch me out here.

Their shit is out on the front line. Your results are every Sunday, year after year after year. You know, people have been tired of talking about the 85 bands. This thing that people don't get outside this city, too. We bristle at the conversation of 85. You know why? Because 85 was so goddamn long ago.

The same way Georgia football fans don't want to hear about Hershawaker anymore. They got real things going on tonight, right? Like, these are big moments. So for that not to occur or to resonate with the people in power. And for George McCasky to step out there big and bold and thought, you know what, I'm going to tell these motherfuckers about themselves. I'm going to tell them about, you know, this shouldn't happen, chastise you as the Bears fans, I'm going to tell anybody out here who thinks that, you know,

Justin Fields should just have free reign going forward. I can't be committed to that either. Like, he was non-committal to a first-year quarterback who this entire city is hoping develops into the Russell Wilson, Steve McNair, whatever the case may be. Like, he went down the line and kicked the chair from under everybody who thought, man, I got a little bit more time with this rope. He kicked the chair out of everybody. Anything that you could think of today.

You were like, ah, nah, he ain't going to do that. That, uh, shit, he just did it. Nah, he ain't going to do that. Uh, damn, he did that too. Time for some commercial. Hey, this is Lance Briggs. You're listening to The Full Goat with Jason Gar. Now, he's not going to call one of the most respected team leaders in this city's history.

Not just Bears history. I'm talking about Michael Jordan, Scotty Pippen, whoever you want to roll up with the Bulls, whoever you want Ryan Sandberg and everybody with the Cubs, all these greats. great cubs that everybody loves the white socks all these team leaders on the white socks olen croutes is in the top five of team leaders in modern history in this city and you're going to call him a liar let me tell you for people outside of chicago that are listening to the full go that need to understand olin cruz olin was a center for a bear's team that went to a super bowl went to a bunch of playoff games all of that stuff and all that time that i've known olin he's never lied to me. He's not a liar. He doesn't have to. Correct.

Like, everything about him tells you that he doesn't have to lie. Everything that he's done that you want to hold against him is proof that that man doesn't have to lie. He ain't afraid of you. Like, I was having a conversation because my mother hit me up, Jay. Because she was like, why would that man say that about Olin? And I said, I have no idea why George McCasky would say that about Olin. Olin has never been a dude to throw a stone and hide his hand.

Ever, ever, ever. And to see George McCaskey think that that was going to win him some sort of brownie points with Bears fans, when Bears fans know, that's an O-G. The O-Gs don't have to lie because they O-Gs. And Olin ain't never been that, ever. Yeah. That's his nickname with Ben. There's peers.

Like people who have played next to him call him OG. So I just, I just, I don't get it, man. I don't get it. So Bill Polion's book sales have been driven. Well, wait, should we buy it? Like, there's a part of me that now, like, I'm curious to buy it because this will be their Bible, Jay. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to believe in their religion.

I mean, they could have just bought blood. sweat and chop. You know, like, they could have just done that. There are plenty of good football books that they could have and here's another thing. And now you're going to get me started because you know how much I love you. And I'll put my career on the line for you. Don't do that.

How are you going to be born in this business and not know about it? How are you going to spend almost eight decades, Jay? That's the issue. In and around this business and not know about it. Your son's five. He already know about

this business. He already know about radio and podcasting. He's five. Five. These cats have been, they have been given, I was joking about it on the air last week. They have been given like this royalty title and they are the worst parts of what royalty has been throughout the history of the world. Like they, they are insular and they're very small thinking. and they only feel like the only people whose word is worth a damn is other royalty. I was explaining this to the fellas before you jumped on, man. This exact thing, go ahead. So let's go talk with the Roonies and the Maras.

And then that's it. Like that's because that's how you feel. Meanwhile, you're just now catching up to what the Roonies were doing 20 years ago when it comes to hiring. you're just now catching up. And that's another thing that made me mad. It made me mad that when they brought up soup and that man's name is Lamar. And you can say Lamar Soup Campbell. But when they brought him and Tunisia up, they diminished what Tunisia is.

They treated her like, oh, well, you know, she still knew with all this. No, no. She is clearly, like if she got into the, the, the, the room of the McCaskys, then she clearly knows what she's doing. And the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to say this is what she is and what she does and this is why she's in the room,

what it tells me is that you haven't learned a damn thing of what she's been trying to teach you as the DEI person for the Bears. That's what it tells me. It's all disgraceful, man. Like, in the truest sense of the word, there's been very little grace here. Everybody's moved, you know, in a dainty, orderly fashion, right? And held themselves in high regards and moved as such.

But when you really, when you peel back these layers, it's rotten for a reason, right? It's rotten for a reason. And to bring up Virginia saying that she was very disappointed, I mean, that's obvious. Everybody's very disappointed. Why is it going to change? I think in the end, Matt Negi leaving and, you know, understanding the why is his big theme. I think the issue is that George McCasky and the McCasky family as a whole, I mean, I'm sure there's a couple of people in there who are like, man, this is some bullshit. But I'm going to keep quiet because this money's coming in.

But they don't understand the why. And the why might just be the mirror. You got to figure out what part of you. you having in your lack of success in relationships professionally financially whatever the case may be once you're done with the charade once you're done with bullshit in yourself as a person as an entity as a business as a group as as whatever you are once you're done all right pretending like it ain't you at some moment you got to figure out what you are doing poorly and it doesn't sound like george mccaskey who is the mouthpiece at this point understands what he's

he has done poorly. You can't tell me that you told Matt Negi that you were shocked that he was asking you about the quarterback position of situation because he threw Matt Nagy under the bus there too. He says that he was shocked and frankly, I'm shocked that you're asking me about this, Matt. You can't say that and then all of a sudden turn around and say, yeah, the general manager is going to have to answer to me though. Well, which one is it? If you can't give the head coach your thoughts on how your franchises should be run, then what are you going to tell the general manager? What are you going to, if the general manager says,

hey, what do you think would be best here? You know, you guys are the ones cutting the checks. You're going to put it back on him. Like, I just... And Matt wasn't asking him to diagram what they should do against a cover three look. No, no, right? I'm sure Matt, I'm sure Matt very friendly, like,

was like, so what do you think? think, what do you feel about? I'm sure that he was like, let me talk with my boss because part of the job, I got to keep my job. Right. Part of the job of the head coach is to be able to, he's middle management. He's got to figure out a way to be able to be conversant with the person who owns the team and the 60th man on the roster.

He has to be able to code switch a lot to make things work. I'm sure that Matt wasn't like, hey, George, let's go to the dry raceboard and let's draw some things up. Like he wasn't doing that. He was asking the team owner what he thinks about the most important part of his job. Yeah. It's all unfortunate, man. Where do they go from here now? Well, I think the point that you brought up, Jay, is a really interesting one, where there are people, they have a list, and they'll be like, oh, well, you know, if they talk with this person or they bring this person in GM, I'll be happy. But then I have to question my myself because they did it.

So if they did it, it might not be right. And that might mean that my spider senses are off. And I don't know what I'm doing. They're going to, from some of the lists that I've seen, it's really interesting some of the folks that reportedly they're going to talk to. I'm willing to wait and see what the hiring process was. I'm mad at the way that they roll. roll this out, but let's see if the rollout ends up bearing fruit.

The last time that they did it, I wasn't a fan of either one of those hires. And I feel justified in some of the things that I said late in 2018, where I'm like, you know, the league seems to have caught up to what Mad Neggy wants to do. And there was never a counter punch for him. He had the answers to the first test, but he didn't have the answers to the next three or four. And it was so appropriate that his tenure as Bears coach ends with them scoring 17 points. With all of the stuff that he wanted to do, like all of the bullshit and oop-de-oop offense that he wanted to run out there, they went back to exactly what they've been over the last couple of seasons.

I am willing to look and see who they bring in and why. And I want to see that. Now that we haven't understood that George is not a football person, he's just a fan, even though he's chairman of the Bears. I want to see what that person has to say about their vision for running the Bears and the next part of this. But at the end of it, you're still stuck with antiquated ways in the process. And that's the scary part.

It would have been very easy for Ted Phillips. to not be there today. And I put this on Ted. Ted should have said, George. Yeah, you know, raise your hand and say, I can't do this one. This is not a good look for you. Or whomever Ted trusts

needed to be like, yo, fam, I don't think this is the best idea. We all know who's running the money. Like, let him run the money. The Cubs did this and everyone was happy. Everyone was like, oh yeah, Cray and Kenny's good at running the money. Let him run the money. Let Theo run to baseball.

And that's what they had the chance to do today, and they still didn't. I think there's a big part of this when it comes to the Bears is they're disconnected. They think they aren't. And George especially, George used to run the ticket office for the Bears. I've seen George when I was covering the team. when we go on the road, George would do a really good job of talking to fans. But I think that he does it as something that's perfunctory

and not as a way to learn about what it is that his fan base is and what they want. I think it's glad-handed to say that you did it. Not listening to understand. Yeah. Like, that's what he's on. I know that he cares about it. But he doesn't seem to be equipped to do it well.

And as I said earlier, that boggles my mind. It boggles my mind that there are so many people inside of that family who are either disinterested or unqualified to run their grandfather's business. And that is heartbreaking. This is a founder of the league. how did none of you really take to learning the business of football

and not and when I say business I don't mean the big business of the money they've learned that they've learned that but the day to day you should be a lot farther along at something but what's the idea Jay is it 10,000 hours that usually makes you an expert

George is 77 years old how are you still out here trying to convince people that you're a fan? How don't you know? Why do you need Ernie a coursey? Why do you need people that are going to come in and run your franchise for you instead of you having a clear vision and the connects at this point to do it? Why do you need Bill Pollian to come in and tell people who have no investment in your organization?

That's right. Other than the $300,000 that you're going to come in. You paid Ernie a coursey. Right. Yeah, come in and get your consultant fee and bounce. Ernie immediately ended up taking a job with another team in your division. Get the fuck out of here with this. Like, and that's another thing, man, see, you got me on one.

That's another thing. He's out here talking about how he didn't want to bring in the ex-players because he didn't want to put them in a bad position because they work in the media. Bill Polly is still working the media. didn't have a problem with that. And guess what? Gary Finsick doesn't. Gary Finsick is available and has made his feelings clear about how he can help your team. That man has succeeded in football and in business.

And that's not someone that you went and tried to use and say, help me with this. You keep looking in the wrong places for help. And because of that, you end up in the same spot that you were seven years ago. Ladies and gentlemen, the great Lawrence Holmes. Appreciate you, man. Next time we'll have you on so we can do one of these full-scale ones and have a little bit more fun and have the people who aren't privy to how talented and how wonderful things have been when you were around the microphone.

We're going to break it down some other time, my man. But I appreciate you for jumping on, man. Oh, man, I love the Fulgo podcast. I love that you have a platform like this where you can do whatever you want, how you want. And it's wonderful. I'm a listener of the pie. Like, I'm a subscriber. So being able to be on it and hearing the phone segments with people that are real angry and they call your show and they tell you some of the great stories, man.

It's fantastic. You're doing such a wonderful job. I am honored to be on the full go podcast. I appreciate you, brother. I appreciate you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, the great Lawrence Holmes. Lawrence, tell the people where they can find your pods as well. Yeah.

So I'm on the score, 670 the score. you can listen on the Odyssey app. I'm on from noon to two, Chicago Time. I also run a podcast called The House of L Podcast, where we do all sorts of stuff. We talk to interesting people in the media like Jay about how they do their jobs. And I'm branching out into some other things with the podcast.

So please keep listening. And I produce a podcast called Sports Adjacent, which is really, really great as well with Russ Dorsey and Jason Leisure and the recently engaged Anthony Gill. So we're out here trying to make moves. You can follow me on Twitter at Lawrence W. Holmes.

That's where I am on Instagram as well. Thank you for your support. I know that the beginning of your fan base or full go is people that love you from Chicago. And now that it's like nationwide, man, it's exactly what you deserve, man. Like, for real, for real. It's what you deserve.

So thanks again for having me on. I appreciate you, brother. One love. One love. All right, that does it for this special episode, I believe, number 50 of the full code podcast. I want to thank Lawrence Holmes for jumping on in this breaking news type of day. We'll have more for you coming up tomorrow, right, because we're doing our Tuesday regular pod. So we'll have Bulls React.

And then, of course, a little bit more on what's happening at Hallis Hall with the Chicago Bears. Also, make sure you check us out on the Ringer NFL feed, the Tuesday edition, the Players Edition, Ryan Shazier, James Jones. We're going to break down all the happenings around the NFL on a firing Monday. We're definitely going to get into this bear situation with those two guys as well.