The Ringer NFL Show - Bears Trade First Overall Pick to the Panthers | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: March 11, 2023

Sheil and Ben react to the news of the Chicago Bears sending the first overall pick in the 2023 draft to the Carolina Panthers for the four picks and D.J. Moore. They discuss what the Panthers should do with the first pick, how the Bears continue building around Justin Fields, and how to build out their roster with the draft compensation. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shield Kapadia here with Ben Solak, an extra point-taking bonus episode on the Ringer NFL feed. we have the trade siren sounding on Friday afternoon, Friday evening, depending on where you are. The Carolina Panthers move up from nine to one in a trade with the Chicago Bears. Ben, you have to agree with me now that the offseason is better than the in season. I mean, that moment when you found out the trade was more exciting. I've never, never, never argued with me. Okay, you're in? No.

Okay. I, I, I, like, you know, you've had, you have two kids. I have two kids. It's the in-season and the off-season. I love them both equally and in different ways. That's how a father feels about his children. He doesn't love one more than the other. I mean, no, this was like there were storm clouds brewing on the horizon.

There was, you know, Bears accounts were tweeting, and it felt like it was coming down. We know they put the deadline in place for pre-agency, so you're just wondering, like, are they really going to do this Friday afternoon? And it turns out they did it on Friday afternoon. And I had already ordered FAA. So I drove out and I got the FAA, and I came back, and I ate it really fast, and now I'm on the podcast.

Oh, beautiful. So you're doing this with a full stomach. I've got pasta waiting for me in the other room. But don't worry, I'm not going to rush the podcast to get to dinner. Let's get to it. We're going to dissect this from every angle we can think up. I want to start with Carolina. Ben, we have talked, I feel like, for months about which team should trade up to number one.

We think the bears are moving out. And we've mentioned Carolina on this pod, on this feed, I think multiple times. So right now, if you have a Panthers friend, buddy, calling you up saying, Benny Solz, come on, you're the authority. How should I feel about this trade? What are you telling them right now? You got the first overall pick? Yeah, you're picking the quarterbacks. In a dense quarterback class, in a quarterback class with four top guys, depending on who you ask, that's a great spot to be in.

Are they going to be throwing it to Terrence Marshall, Shy Smith, and Leviska-Shinolt next season? potentially. Is there a world in which you end up not taking the best of the four with the first overall pick because it's really hard to get the correct top quarterback? Absolutely. Is your quarterback coach, Josh McCown,

who's just kind of like hired based off the vibes that he'd be a good coach someday and it's his first year ever in Frank Reich knew him in Philly? Yeah. Other than that, though, it's great. We're loving it. It's awesome. I love that.

I would be much more enthusiastic. to my Panthers, my Panthers fans, friends. I would be pumped about this. Listen, you have gone through however many years in the post-Cam Newton era with no quarterback. I mean, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, Kyle Allen, PJ Walker, Cam Newton the second time, Baker Mayfield, Will Greer. It was time to end the Band-Aid era at quarterback for the Panthers.

And listen, there are only so many opportunities you have. to move up. Like if you have the 23rd pick, it's very difficult to get to range where you're going to draft who you think is a franchise quarterback. And so this was a year where they had the number nine pick. They had some additional draft capital from that Christian McCaffrey trade. They move up from nine to one. And I think the compensation is fair. We can get to that in a minute when we talk about the bears. But this is not a scenario where there was some massive bidding war and you had to overpay compared to the trades we've seen in recent years.

And so I think what you gave up was reasonable. And now, like you said, you got to do your scouting. I'm sure they probably have, they've already done it, right? They probably know who they're taking already, because I don't think you make this trade unless you love the guy. There been, there been, uh,

number one. Yeah, there have been some tweet, Scott Fowler, who's been at the Charlotte Observer for a long, long time. Uh, Panthers will take a QB at one, but have a couple guys they like, also not discounting training back the two and recouping someone that they gave up. I don't buy that part. Quote, we control it now. A panther source says.

That's Scott Fowler, again, Charlotte Observer. Joe Person, who scrolling, uh, did just says in his bio Carolina Panthers. I don't remember where he works. But Joe person who also covers the Panthers. The athletic.

Yeah. The athletic, thank you. We'll say they're keeping their options open. Rewards quarterback they'll take. They should. But the sense around the leagues that they're going up for CJ shroud. So I think they know they have a guy that they feel good taking at one in Stroud. And I also think that they haven't signed, sealed, and delivered that. I don't think that's written in ink yet.

So I don't mind having that approach, especially because the bears were very public about the fact that they wanted to get this trade done before free agency. And now we know why. It's because they wanted to get a top receiver. They needed to add another receiver. And they didn't want to be going after, you know, Jacoby Myers and Juju Smith-Schuster. and trying to trade for D. Andre Hopkins, if they could fold in a player like DJ more into this trade

with the first overall pick. And so the Panthers had to get this deal done to send more to the Bears before free agency began, such that I don't think they, I don't think it's determined that they 100% know who their guy is. I think they have a strong lean, but I don't think they're locked in. And they also, I mean, the Panthers had to have a plan at quarterback.

And so if this trade wasn't going to get done, they might have had to go in a different direction and explore all kinds of, options next week when the league year starts. Listen, if you're the, if you're the Panthers for the first time since David Tepra has been the owner, you have a reasonable path forward to build a winner and sustain success. You have a, I think, a competent good head coach in Frank Reich.

We have your boy defensive coordinator, Adjero Evereaux with, by the way, some talent on that defense. You're not starting from scratch. He should be able to do good stuff with that defense. And now it's what every franchise is basically faced with. you have the number one pick and it's Joe Burrow or something like that. Like you're faced with these decisions where you have to scout the guys, you have to have conviction, and you have to pick the guy.

You can be one of these teams. I mean, we have many teams. We have the can't. Kick the can. Oh, it's been seven years. We don't have a quarterback yet. But you know what? We haven't exactly found the guy who we like it.

So we're just going to have Band-Aids every year. I think this is a good year to do it for the Panthers. I think there are good prospects at the top of the draft. We'll get to them later in the episode. But I love this move for the Panthers. Now, you mentioned a key part there, which our wonderful producer, Stefan Anderson, brought up before we started recording. The cupboard is bare at Playmaker for the Carolina Panthers, which it's funny.

Going into last season, that wasn't the case. You kind of looked at the supporting cast and go, oh, they've got some dudes there. They don't right now. I think, was it you who was tweeting out their starting wide receivers? Or did I see that somewhere else? Shai Smith, who is it? Who do we got starting if they had to play a game tomorrow? So Terrace Marshall, who they just, you know,

Scott Pitter just give a big vote of confidence. Like we love, we love Terrace. So Terrace Marshall, Leviska-Shonaut, and then presumably Shy Smith, maybe a little Richard Higgins in there, but of course he's a free agent. So it depends on whether or not they bring Richard back,

you know, that fight for wide receiver three there. Yeah, listen, it's obviously not a great group. They have work to do. I would just say like if I'm a Panthers fan, I'm not like panic. You wanted to hold on to DJ Moore. That would have been great. DJ Moore with the rookie quarterback that had to be part of the trade, obviously.

But, you know, the quarterback is the big thing. You hit on that. You can find some competent pieces in free agency. It's not a great group. Maybe you hit on a draft thing. It's also not a one year thing. You're not expected to win the Super Bowl next year. Next year, you kind of want to set the floor with some competency.

You have a whole other offseason to kind of build. build that supporting cast around whichever quarterback you get. And then you move forward and you try to build a winner while that quarterback's on their rookie contract. So Frank Reich as a history of having to do more with less. I mean, look at the skill position players he worked with in Indianapolis. They never had a great group of pass catchers. And they pretty consistently had at least a mediocre to above average passing game with the

quarterbacks he had. So I think they'll find ways to fill that wide receiver group. Again, it's not going to be a great group right away, but I think you can take some time and build it. And that's really been the norm. I mean, look at the bill. The bills didn't have a great wide receivers right away. The next off season, they trade for Stefan Diggs. You build it up.

So I think that's obviously next on their to do list, but I would still be pumped about this move if I were a Carolina Panthers fan. All right. Let's get to question number two, Benjamin. How should Chicago Bears fans feel about this move? You talked about Ryan Poles quite a bit just in our episode earlier this week. on extra point taken. He was talking to Peter King. He was talking about what he was going to get for this pick.

How should Bears fans feel now that they have a deal in place? Solid. I think, right, we talk about the compensation, which have we said it exactly on the pod yet? The Panthers sent to the Bears, 9 overall, 61 overall, a 24 first, so next year's first round pick, a 2025 second.

So in draft capital, that's a 1-0-2. two at one and a two. And then DJ Moore for the first overall pick. I probably should have led with that, right? Can I blame that on you having eaten dinner and me not having eaten dinner yet? I mean, that's a bad job by the host to not mention the drive competition at the top of the show. I didn't remember if we had said it or not. And honestly, at this point, in like, anybody who's getting their news on what the compensation is in this podcast.

That's right. You should know already. Yeah. Put push notifications on, brother. Let's go. Compete. Anyway. in terms of return, right?

This is why I was kind of annoyed slash worried about Ryan Poles being like, I know I can get a 2024 first and a 2025 first. He said that. And then he didn't get that, objectively speaking. He did get DJ Moore, which of course is really good and probably is worth a first round pick. Remember, AJ Brown was traded straight up for a first round pick. He needed an extension last year.

And then Marquis Brown was traded for a first round pick last year during the draft. and he also needed an extension. I don't know exactly how good DJ Moore is, but he's somewhere between AJ Brown and Markey's Brown, right? And so I think he's definitely worth that first round pick. And critically, he doesn't need that extension, right? He's got a big cap hit this year, but the bears can swallow that. They haven't out, actually, because it's not really guaranteed money left on the deals

that's been traded, but they'll have him for about $20 million this year, about $16 million next year and about $15 million the year following. If Moore is the wide receiver one that they believe he is, that's under market value for three years. It's going to be 26, 27, 28 years old. It's a really, really good acquisition. So all together, I think it's a very strong, I think it's a strong package.

With more and pushing for that veteran receiver, you just, in doing so, elect not to get on some other picks, right? Instead of taking on like another future first, you go and you get more. And I think that's the smart move. an appropriate move in terms of helping you evaluate Justin Fields this year, right? Like a 2025 first round pick.

It doesn't help you figure out a Fields as the guy in 2023. DJ Moore helps you figure out a Fields as the guy in 20203. And that's the big challenge that's left for the Bears. So I do think that's good. It always is nice to have those future firsts though because, okay, right now you got DJ Moore. DJ Moore is the 15th, 17th, 19th best receiver in the NFL. You have a future first and then all of a sudden, you know, the eighth best receiver in the NFL starts to get upset with his team. The sixth best

out of receiver in the NFL wants to move. We saw so much part of receiver movement last off season. Sometimes it's nice to have those future picks. Then you can trade for like a really elite guy instead of a good number one. But altogether, I think it's a solid acquisition package. And on the last note, you're staying in the top 10. Ninth overall is not a bad spot to be in this draft class. I like it for the bears. I like it a lot. Yeah. So the draft competition, I was trying to look at recent deals

and figure out, is this fair? Is it not fair? Because it is weird when a player gets thrown into it. It kind of throws you off a little bit. And so I think the best comp we have is the 49ers moved up from 12 to 3 to draft trade lane. So 9 to 1 versus 12 to 3. It's pretty comparable. The Miami Dolphins in that trade also acquired 22 first, a 2023 first, and a 2022 third round pick. So you would look at that and say, wait a minute,

the Panthers to move down, I mean, the bears to move down nine spots, just got a 20-22 first, a 20-25 second, and DJ Moore. Aren't they short a first-round pick? But I think your point is a good one with DJ more. I mean, what we've seen with the wide receiver market in recent years, I think DJ Moore is absolutely worth a first-round pick. Like if they just said, hey, D.A., we're trading DJ more. What's anyone going to give up?

You would have at least gotten a first-round pick for D. DJ Moore. So if you plug him in as a first round pick, it's really almost identical to what the dolphins got when they moved down from 12 to 3 in that Trey Lance deal. And I think we can't, you know, the DJ Moore aspect of this is really important. I mean, he's been really good. He, the last four seasons, 4,413 yards. That ranks seven among all wide receivers. And again, who was thrown to him, Darnel, Bridgewater, Kyle Allen, PJ Walker, Cam, the second version, of Cam Newton, Baker Mayfield, and Will Greer. Like, it's hard for really good receivers.

Even when we know they're awesome, when they get quarterback play like that, they generally don't produce like that. And so he's 17th in yards per route run out of 84 wide receivers. So yeah, I think he's definitely a top 15, top 20 wide receiver. You could easily convince me. I mean, you know, think if he were with like a really good quarterback, a consistent passing game, I think he would be putting up even more monster numbers. So my take with the Bears, if you're a Bears fan,

listen, if you're a Justin Fields believer, and what do you think? I feel like it feels like, what, 95% of Bears fans are Justin Fields, like, all in believers? Is that high? What do you think of it is? Most members of a fan base that have a good quarterback or believers in that quarterback, you'll see what I did there.

So you see how I respond that one? I did see what you did there. And so I'm not going to, we'll talk more in Justin Fields and one of these other questions that I have. But listen, like Ben said, if you like Justin Field, if you're a Bears fan, you believe in him,

you're saying, man, just gets a pieces around him, then this is a fair deal for you. You get a wide receiver one right away. And your point is a good one that this class of free agency, wide receivers is not good.

In fact, it sticks. You're going to be overpaying for wide receivers who are not nearly as good as DJ Moore and the draft class is not good either. So I think it's, I hate to be the guy who says,

I feel like it's a good deal. I like the deal for both teams. But at the end of the day, I asked myself, would I have done this deal if I were the Panthers? Yes, would I have done this deal if I'm the Bears? And I believe in Justin Fields. Yes, I think the compensation is fair on both ends. Yeah, I don't think the Bears robbed Carolina blind.

And I also think the Bears got good value out of the pick with how they were marketing it and when they wanted to move it. I think that, like, I've been talking a lot about Poles' process. And I was like, he's got to land the plane here. If he wants to get the time before free agency, I always he gets sweaty. He did a good job doing this. that. And I thought, yeah, I thought the Panthers moved what they had to move. I think losing

Moore is a bit of a band-aid, but from the reporting we've seen after the trade, it seems like Moore was a non-negotiable. And once you kind of swallowed that pill, they really didn't have to give up too much in the way of draft capital to get it done. And so now it's about land in the pick. I do want to talk about this Bears wide receiver room, though, because DJ Moore is in there. I think you're saying like a true wide receiver one one. When I put DJ Moore into my, I did a wide receiver tier list last year, and I put him into like the good number one category, he was right around the 20th best receiver in the league. Looking back at it now, heuristically,

I'd probably have him like 18, 19. With the room of DJ Moore, Chase Claypool, and Darno Mooney, how good is the Bears receiver room actually, is my big question? Because there's no real, like, elite dude. And there are some, oh, that was a big voice crack on that one. We didn't need that in there.

There are some teams that have like an elite guy and then a near elite guy, right? When I go and I try to, to rank this Bears wide receiver room, they end up about average in the league room. They end up about 15, 16, 17, in terms of where, where they land league consensus, the quality of their pass catchers. That's like, I don't want to overstate how good the room is. I think it's drastically improved.

I think improving from like being the 32nd, 31st, 30th best team at wide receiver, I think that's hugely important. It goes from like Fields having to make the entire offense off himself to being like, no, Fields is like, has a functional receiver room. This should look like a functional passing offense. But I don't want it to be like, all right, now they've got all the weapons, baby. Like, it's still like, Mooney Claypool, DJ Moore, and Cole Commet. It's still like, all right, I'm really interested to see what the Bears do with all this money they've gotten free agency

because this offense still, it could continue to add weapons. I mean, Dave Montgomery out the building, Khalil Herbert, like, there's a lot to get done still for the Bears. Well, that was actually, yeah, going to be my next question was, does Fields have enough around him? Now, I actually think you're underrating him a little bit. I haven't done the same exercise, so I can't tell you where exactly. Do you want me to run through it really quick? So I have it listed.

I mean, okay, sure. Let's hear it. Why not? What else are we doing? Yeah. So top tier in terms of wide receiver groups. I don't think I'll get any argument from you on this.

Bengals, Eagles, dolphins, bucks, 49ers, right? We got like top 10, top 12 guys, multiple top 10, top 12 guys in each one of those groups. We're including tight ends, running backs, everything. This isn't just wide receivers? I'm just talking pass catchers, really. I almost each been

like guys the quarterback's still yeah okay yeah I think I would agree with that all right the top of the next year

I have Seahawks Broncos commanders bills oh I don't I mean the Broncos have who on the Broncos you like the Broncos

on Jerry Judy? You think that's better than this no way I'm taking the Bears group over that group any day we totally disagree there okay okay that's fine

who are the other teams you mentioned I said Seahawks Broncos goes Commander's bills. Oh, I could easily put, I would easily put this Bears group in with those groups. I mean, I think

you're underrating DJ Moore quite a bit here. I mean, I do. It's a legit number one wide receiver and Claypool and Mooney as two and three is fine with me. I think that's the tier that I would put this bear's group in with. I'm fine with saying DJ Moore is a legit wide receiver one. Claypool and Mooney

you got to sell me on. This Chase Claypool thing is some nonsense now. I mean, like, and that's what this boils down to. I think Mooney is a fine guy to have in your rotation. I think Moore is a solid wide receiver one. The Claypole trade, man, I cannot get over how little juice they got out of Claypool in the half season that they had him, obviously. And just what they think his usage is going to be.

He's a giant wide receiver who doesn't win catches above the rim. He's a jet sweep merchant. He's a drag and run guy. Like, besides the nine touchdown season in Pittsburgh, which like the touchdown production, I think belied how useful he was, I haven't seen. enough from Claypool to really believe in him as a legitimate target. I'm like, oh, I'm funneling Chase Clayball targets this game. I'm so excited. I can't get there with that.

Yeah, but as like, I mean, if you just look at his first two seasons, he had over 800 yards both of his first two seasons and averaged over 14 yards per reception. I mean, that just is objectively number two wide receiver production. Now, he didn't do it last year for sure. And I'm with you. That trade is looking bad. And the way he was used there. look bad, but that, you know, you have to look at the team also in that respect as much as the player. Like, he's had two seasons of production that is objectively number two or number three wide receiver production. Jerry Judy is first two, two of his first three years at over

800 yards and over 14 yards per reception. Like, and then you're so quick to toss Jerry Judy off to the way side. No, no, no, that's fine. But I would, then I'm taking DJ more over Cortland Sutton any day of the week. So that's what, that's why I'm looking at it, uh, that way. You disagree with that. Wow. Same tier. Same tier. I disagree.

DJ is a better player. The other teams that I'm looking at in terms of being, I think, a step above the Bears just to finish the conversation. You can yell at me at any of these if you want to. I've got Raiders. I've got Raiders including Darren Waller. I've got Cardinals because D. D. Hop is on the roster as of right now.

When D. Hop is gone. I think obviously that group is worse. Lions and the Jaguars. I think those groups are all better wide-receiver rooms than the Bears. So the only reason I bring up the, that exercise. The Jaguars right now? You think are a better wide receiver room?

Calvin Ridley plus Christian Kirk plus Evan Ingram? What are we talking about? Okay. First of all, we, I mean, we have no idea what Calvin Ridley is going to look like. A thousand-year-old receiver two years ago, Calvin Ridley. Okay, but he's, I don't think he's better than DJ Moore, Calvin Ridley. I mean, you could put them in the same tier if you want, but, and then the other one,

I mean, the card, the cardinals. Okay, okay, okay. Let's knock. Cardinals, if Hopkins is there. Hopkins, like, obviously, like, it's probably going to go. I caveat of that one. Let's talk, okay, we got this Jags one. Let's pretend for a second, Calvin Riddly and DJ more equal. You don't think.

Can I admit that I forgot Calvin Ridley was on the, that I thought. Yes, you can. Now, now I won't. But still, I think it's the same team. Honestly, I think the first five teams you mentioned, I'm on board with you. And then that I would put the bears in that next group with any of them. So I would disagree with you 16 to 17. I think if I, you know, maybe for the next extra point taken,

I can rank them all. I know we can, I can tell you this is definitively where I think the bears are. But from doing that exercise, I think they're firmly above average. They're probably in like the 10 to 12 range. And as you mentioned, the key point is that huge upgrade from what they had last year.

So, yeah. You and you and Ryan Poles, all your eggs in the DJ Moore basket, baby. I'm excited to see it. Now, the other thing I will mention with DJ Moore, you mentioned the contract. I've seen people mention the contract. Are we sure he's going to be happy playing on that contract for the next three years? And there's not going to be a restructure.

At some point, I understand the team has leverage. He's under contract. But, man, he's making $17 million a year for the next three seasons. That's being paid like the 20th best wide receiver. His agent is Drew Rosenhouse. I just, let's see if you're getting him on that contract, It's like an absolute home run, great value of a deal. I just wonder, you know, at some point,

maybe it's after next season, who knows that he would say, settle down now. We need to restructure this bad boy. So that's something else to keep in mind. But just with the Fields conversation, what else do that, what else do they need to do? I mean, they've still got a lot of cap space. They've got picks 9, 54, 62, and 65.

I mean, you would look at the offensive line for sure as an area where they need to upgrade. And if I'm a bear's fan, I'm saying, you better not be spending like a lot of these resources on defense. Like, this is a great start to help Justin Fields. Now let's get that offensive line protected. And then Matt Iber Fluse, if you want to, you know, a linebacker or a pass rush or whatever, we'll get to that afterwards.

But don't, I'm with you. Don't think you're done here. And you can just go and play in week one. Yeah, you're going to be devastated when that ninth of all pick becomes through Sanders, the big linebacker out of Arkansas, the Shaq Leonard clone. Yeah, I think that you look at the bears who have, I want to say the most or the second most cap space right now.

I think it's the most. And like I said, right now in terms of their starting, like skill positions, it's fields, Mooney Claypool, more, and then you have Cole come out at a tight end, which I think is totally fine. And right now it's Khalil Herbert at running back. Claylea Herbert is a nifty little player last year,

David Montgomery injured during part of the season, and approaching free agent. I can see them improving at running back. I can see them going for more juice. But if they do, it's like Miles Sanders, right? Because Tony Pollard got tagged, Josh Jacobs got tagged, and Stakel and Barkley got tagged. So, like, we talk about that wide receiver market,

not being too good in free agency, running back market as well. Like, it's fine. But if you're going from Miles Sanders, I imagine you're just bringing David Montgomery back because you know, I don't think there's too big of a delta there. Accordingly, I think that if you're going to spend money, you can spend it on interior offensive line,

where we've seen now a lot of guys, like, get cut. We saw Ben Jones. Get cut from the Titans. We saw Graham Glasgow's getting released from Denver. You can get some veterans in the room, which getting veterans on the offensive line is really, really beneficial, just because average play at guard is just, firstly, it's better than what the Bears had.

And secondly, you don't want to be a weak-link team at an offensive line. What I mean by that is, if your offensive line, you have four studs and one really bad guy, you have a bad offensive line. Because you can't hide the dude. It's too difficult. You'd rather have, like, five solid guys, because then there's no particular liability,

and it's harder for pass rushes to key in on what you want to get. So bringing in a Ben Jones for a year and a Graham Glasgow for a year, Isaac Sam Maller from the Eagles is a rising free agent. Any of these guys just that kind of work for knocking one item off of your list. Not a lot of tackles making the open market, though, and that's where I would expect they would go draft, right? Tackle, I think, is their biggest need along the offensive line. Braxton Jones, who was a fifth round pick last year,

was better than you'd expect the fifth round pick to be. I think he's a far cry from like, we've got our guy. And so I would be extremely fine making a move at left tackle. And then at right tackle, it was like Riley Reef and Larry Borum. It was a turn style. And you have to improve there. And so I would imagine at 9, they start looking at the top of that tackle class. Peter Scrantz got a Northwestern, Paris Johnson out of Ohio State,

Darnell Wright at a Tennessee and start figuring out who you're going to look at there. Out of the fact, free agencies more you look at the running back class and the interior office line class. Tackle makes a lot of sense for them at number number, I think, man, if they spend a lot of money at running back or like a key resource on running back, that's ridiculous. They should not be doing it. Khalil Herbert, you know, I'm not saying he's the next Barry Sanders. He averaged 5.7 yards per carry for them last year. Like we've seen it when you have a quarterback who can run.

That running back is going to be put in a fantastic situation. That is not a spot where you need to invest a lot of resources. So I think they can chill that running back. Wait, let the market play out. If there's someone cheap, you want to sign. for $2 million to pair with Khalil Herbert. If there's someone on day two that you want to draft that you really like, that's fine.

But if they're spending that free agency money on running back or on non-premium positions on defense, I would be pretty upset if I were a Bears fan. I'm with you on Interior O line. It's kind of like the Bengals, honestly, last offseason. You know, they didn't make the huge splash on the offensive line, but they got Ted Karris, Alex Kappa, and L. Collins. They got three, you know, like, okay starters.

And for not a lot of money, that's a smart way to approach this if you're the Chicago Bears. All right. I don't know if you're on the record with this. Yeah, so I'm ready to ask you. And if you're not ready to declare, you can say this is my answer as of March 10th, but I might change it. Who will the Panthers take with the number one pick? Who should the Panthers take with the number one pick? We have Bryce Young.

We have C.J. Stroud. I saw some Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network saying, are we sure it's not going to be, or was it Dan Orlowski, one of them, maybe it was both of them, saying are we sure it's not going to be? The NFL network is Jeremiah. No, I think they were tweeting with each other or someone,

you've been out here tweeting? I don't. Yeah, no. Are we sure? They were saying, are we sure it's not Anthony Richardson at number one, which, man, that would make for a fun draft night. I don't know if you've done your, QB rankings. If you have a strong take about they should absolutely take this guy or

he or who I would take or if you have a feel on who they should take, what do you think? I've been trying to figure this out all day. Because I had a sense that the Panthers are going to be the team to move up and I wanted to get my bet in on the first quarterback market before it moved. Right now the markets are very heavily to CJ Stroud. I think Stroud's like a minus 300 minus 350 favorite, an enormous favorite for this stage of the process. Although, sorry to cut you off, but aren't those odds like wild every year? Like, I feel like they're not, they don't tell us much at this point.

Like, they change a crazy amount by the time we get to draft day, right? Yes. And like, one of the things that, like, if everybody knows who the pick is, the books don't post the odds. If there's question as to who it is, the books will post the odds because they want you to out leverage yourself. Because the odds are extremely juiced, right? Like, if you, if you calculate out, like, the percent chance that's implied by the odds of any of the top four quarterbacks going first overall, you get a sum of, like, 65 percent. Like, like, the juice is insane. That didn't mean anything to anybody.

I'm sorry. But anyway, the moral of the story is this. The NFL thinks it's Stroud. I think, I think if you hit up a league source anywhere in the NFL right now and you ask them, who do you think the family is taking a one? I think the average answer you get is Stroud. I think they like Stroud. I think that they like more than more than one quarterback. I don't think they're decided just yet.

In terms of what they should do, Stroud is extremely defensible, which I know is not like a ringing endorsement. But if you go and you look at the history of picks, excuse me, the history of quarterback's Frank Reichas coach, Payne Manning 6.5, Philip River, 6'5,

Preston, 1, 6'5, Nick Foll is 6'5, Nick Foll, 6'5, Andrew Lucks 6'4, Jockev-4, Jules again, once again, Matt Ryan's 6'4, that's from Theo Ash. I don't, I don't think that are Bryce, team. I think they're going to do the work on Richardson, Levis, and Stroud. And then I think we're going to see where they end up

in six weeks. It's Stroud is a delight. He makes a lot of sense. He's a delightful player. He's so accurate. He's so good in the pocket. I would, I am worried about his lack of mobility, but I can understand Frank Wright who typically has worked with pocket passers who are tall, big guys, not caring too much about that. And that's what Stroud is. That's the bill he fits. And so Stroud is, is an intuitive early lead. I just don't think it's locked yet.

I'm not ruling Bryce Young out. I think some of that stuff is circumstantial with the, with the quarterbacks Frank Reich has had. I would agree with you if I had to say right now, hey, who do I think the Panthers are going to take? I think I would go with C.J. Stroud. I could just see it, Frank Reich and Josh McCown going, this guy has all the tools to be a very, very good.

If Josh McCown has a substantial amount of sway over this pick, I question the process. I love Josh. But he's a first-year quarterback coach. I mean, still, he's the quarterbacks coach. I think his input will be taken. I don't think he's making the pick. Okay, when the Cardinals took Kyla Murray, who is the quarterback's coach?

Nobody knows or cares who the quarterback coach is at the first overall pick until we all know it's Josh McCown. We're like, hey, Josh McCown really like CJ Stroud. And it's like, well, cool for Josh McCown. I don't think if McCown shows up and tells Dave Tepper, friend Scott Fitterer. Hey, I really like CJ Stroud. They're like, whoa, let's go back to the chalkboard. It's Josh McCown, man.

Anyway, I love Josh. I think it's because Josh McCown did the video series, which now I really have to watch with our friend Josh Norris at Underdog where he's literally scouting and giving his opinion on these quarterback. So that's going to be a fun one. So watch, by the way, Scott Fitterer in Seattle

when they drafted short quarterback Russell Wilson. In the third round. They will have a conversation. We'll have a conversation. We'll see how it goes. I think it's going to be Stroud. I'm not ruling out young. Now, you very, a nice, savvy job there of not saying who you would take if Frankie Reich called you up and said, Ben, I've been listening to, you know, since I got fired, my Monday routine changed. I listened to Extra Point Taking every Monday. Great show, by the way. I love the chemistry with you and Sheila. It always entertains me,

whether you guys are right or wrong. But I need your opinion. I'm just gauging everyone. I gauge Josh McCown. I gauge David. Tepper. Who else? Who's like a random Carolina person? You know, Michael Jordan.

I saw him. You know, we were playing golf together. I wanted to see. When I think of random Carolina people, I think of Michael Jordan. Yeah. So, George, he's taking this poll. You got Jordan, Tepper, McCown. But now he wants your opinion.

Who should he take with the number one pick? And again, if you're, I know this. We don't want to get like old takes exposed. So if you aren't sure yet, at some point, you're going to have to go on record with this. But if you want to say who it would be now with the right to change it before we get to the first round of the draft,

we will allow that. I will make you go officially on the record, of course, at some point. I at this stage, I'm not positive with my answer. I was hoping you wouldn't notice. I did a little politicians dodge on that question. Please. Did a lot of what might happen. I'm a reporter.

Come on. Here's the thing. Of the four quarterbacks, when I watch him, I like Stroud the most. I also am quarterback mobility pilled. To me, this is the direction of the league's going. I don't know if I would want to hitch my wagon to a quarterback who is as reliant on being good in the pocket

as C.J. Stroud is. Right? To me, like, Stroud exists on and plays on the spectrum of Dak Prescott to Jared Gough, which, like, DAC is as good as it gets from the pocket, reading out coverages, changing protections, accuracy from tight areas, buying half a second. Like, he is premier. and he continues to lose in the playoffs,

which is not his fault, and it continues to get to be easier by his fan base. Like, so much of elite quarterback play when you hit a home run, you're hitting it predicated on the idea of mobility. And Shroud, you do not have that range of outcomes of Shroud.

Even if his range of outcomes are narrow and they're all good, and you know how to make it works, you're Frank Rike, and you've worked with quarterbacks like this. Even if all of that's true, I don't know if you want to hit your ride with a quarterback, where it was kind of a version of Stroud

we hadn't seen before. This explanation, I'm just asking. It was nice and neat and it was tight. And then Stroud walked out against Georgia. It was outside of his mind. It's a different version of CJ Stroud. Yeah.

It was un- I do. And he was creating. He was doing those things you're talking about. The CJ Stroud film against Georgia is without question, the best film of any quarterback in this class that I've seen, period, like by a mile. It's just I watched him for two years, not do that.

And then he did it against the best possible defense at the biggest stage, which kind of messes with your head shield. So yeah, the Georgia film is tough. Whatever team drafts CJ Stroud, Panthers at one, Chiefs at 31 and everybody in between. Whatever team drafts, CJ Stroud,

the first thing out of the general manager's mouth when they go to the press conference going to be, you watch the way he played against Georgia in the biggest stage on that, on that film, whatever, and deservedly so. Like, that game was a marquee game.

So it's a good callout. It's an important matchup. Yeah, it's only, because I generally agree with you. You know, he looks as, he looks like that prototypical pocket passer. But when we talk about range of outcomes and you're a team, you know, you might say, well, there is a little bit more to him. If we do value that creativity, that ability to get a bucket, as they say,

the second reaction stuff, because that was there, like we said, against the best defense in the country in that one game. So I have Bryce Young first. I like, I would, I think C.J. Stroud looks like a great prospect. as well. I mean, I would not really kill them if they went with either guy. What about the wild card? I spent today watching film with my friend, Coach Flynn at Princeton University, and we watched Anthony Richardson's 25 best throws. And I went into this experience being like, the hype is out of control for this guy. Are you serious?

And then I watched his 25 best throws. And I'm like, oh, okay, I could see how somebody could talk themselves into this guy. Where are you with him? Like if a report came out tomorrow that like Anthony Richardson is the favorite for the Panthers. at number one, how would you feel about it? It makes sense. I would totally get it in terms of his and when it would peak. Listen, right now, like, he's the third. Like, it's usually like Stroud is a favorite, like minus 300.

Bryce Young plus 200. And then Richardson's back there like plus 500 plus 600. Levis is the one who right now is like plus 10 million, which I think is very wrong. I don't think Richardson nor Levis is out of this conversation for the Panthers at one. I wouldn't mind Richardson at all just because of talking about range of alcohol. He gives you a range of outcomes that Shroud doesn't on the high end. If there's going to be a guy in this class who is a bona fide elite quarterback in the conversation for top three, in the conversation for top five,

can contend with any sort of personnel around him, you know, supporting cast scheme. That guy is Richardson. He's in a year. He's not it right now, but that guy is Richardson. So it would be justified. And then Will Levis.

He was like a good prospect. He has solid builds, all mobility, solid arms, like a solid quarterback prospect, but has a huge, like character sort of thing, like the leadership, taking on injury, taking on hits, working with a tough team and like elevating a tough situation.

Like Levis is a big culture guy. You think about what Frank Reich went through with Carson Wentz in Indianapolis, you talk to Will Levis and hear where people talk about Will Levis, you would never expect that sort of a situation where a guy loses the locker room and can't connect to the guys in there. So I don't think anybody is out of the conversation. If I do think somebody's out of the conversation, I think it's Bryce.

they all seem like pretty high character guys though right i mean like all all the quarterbacks i feel like the intangibles are there do you know who will levis reminded me of on phil that was a carson wince is that is that fair or not i mean i feel like if you talk yourself into levis you're saying you're getting like the the good version of carson wince that maybe we saw in 2017 pre-injury he obviously has the monster arm i will make this prediction there will 100% be a day between now and the first round of the draft where there is a report that the Panthers are leading towards Will Levis and then everyone

will go out. That just feels like it has to happen as part of the draft conversation. All right, that was good. We talked about who the Panthers should take. We talked about Justin Fields. Let's finish with a couple of these. For the Panthers, this move is a success if, finish the sentence, Ben. For the Panthers, this move is a success if

it's probably pretty easy. The quarterback they draft is the franchise quarterback. Yeah. It's nice and neat. right. That's all there is to it. Yeah. Yeah, they hit on the quarterback. That quarterback is the guy who has them in the mix for years to come. That quarterback is the guy. They're paying, you know, like a top five quarterback five years from now on his second contract. He's the face of the franchise. He's got them winning the NFC South. He's got them competing for Super Bowls. I mean, listen, that's the reason why you make a move like this. That really defines success for them here. For the Chicago Bears, Benjamin, this move is a success. If Oh, that's tougher. I think it's a success if DJ Moore hits and elevates the passing offense, especially you can evaluate

whether or not Justin Fields is the quarterback of the future. That's my one-liner. I think this move is a success if Justin Fields is the guy, because I think we have to grade the move, the compensation, given what we know at the time the move was made, and I think they got good compensation

in terms of that. I mean, this decision comes down to whether they screwed up taking Justin Fields over one of these other quarterbacks with the top overall pick. Because in terms of cut,

even if they miss on the picks that they get for this, it's like, all right, you know, that kind of happens in the draft. But the picks that they got, the resources they got,

I think all makes sense in terms of this, this move down from one to nine. All right, let's finish with this. The Panthers, this move is a failure. If the quarterback they select,

is not the franchise guy. It's very simple. They picked the wrong quarterback, yeah. Yeah, pick the on quarterback. Also, if, I mean, like, this is a 0.01% outcome, but if the quarterbacks don't go as fast off the board as we thought they were going to,

I think that's also part of the concern, but, like, I'd be shocked if we don't get three quarterbacks in the top four, in which case they're fine. That's true. I guess there's a scenario where they could have been patient seeing how the board fell,

but I'm kind of with you. I think the quarterbacks are going to go off the board quickly. I think it's fine to do it, it ahead of time given what they gave up. So yeah, that one's pretty easy. It's a failure if they picked the wrong guy. If in five years we're saying, man, they made that move up for quarterback X and quarterback Y went with the third overall pick or the fifth overall pick and that guy is the best quarterback from this class far and away. Man, it's hard to like look at this right now

and I'm with you. This is a really tough evaluation with these top quarterbacks. I do now, I'll tell you right now, I'm not going to be going wild with any type of confidence. with my quarterback takes between now and the first round of the track. Yeah, because it's really tough. All right. And for the Bears, this move is a failure. Yes. What do you got?

That's tricky. Like, I think this is like, like, I never like these questions because I feel like I always want to evaluate the move in the moment, right? I want to like, did you make a good move relative to the information that you had? I, like, so I disagree with you. Like, it's, it's only a win if they, if Justice Fields is the guy. I understand that there's the concern that. you moved out of the first overall pick

when you could have taken a quarterback and if you had known just Field wasn't the guy you could have stayed and taken a guy but then you're just a really bad team again next year and you get an early pick next year and you can deal with the quarterbacks next year. I don't think you're missing out necessarily on too much. So to me it's a failure if they walk out of next season

without clarity on what they need to do at quarterback. I think that should be off-season goal number one, not just for this move, but for all moves. We end next season knowing if Fields is the guy or not. And so I think that's overall. my bear's report card and this gets folded into that. Well, I think the problem with that, though, is that I think their floor, I mean, this is a floor

razor type of offseason for them. We know they're going to be way better at wide receiver. They have all this cap space to use. They're going to be defensive players in their second year in the scheme. Like, I don't, even if Fields is the exact same player he was this last year, doesn't improve at all. I think they're going to be, you know, a level better where they're just not going to be. going to be picking in the top five again and have an opportunity to draft a quarterback.

Now, they will have additional draft capital. So if they want to take a big swing and there's another scenario where a team with the top two, top three overall pick wants to move out of that, then sure they can do that. But like nothing's guaranteed here. It was kind of set up neatly that like let's say they were convinced Fields wasn't the guy. It would have been very simple. You just stay at one and you pick the quarterback you want. So I do think this comes down to Fields, you and I disagree on whether I think the level to which we're confident that he's going to be a great quarterback for them. I mean, I just look at some of the stuff from last year, and I understand the supporting cast sucked, but he had the highest percentage of turnover

worthy plays in the NFL. He was 29th out of 33 quarterbacks in dropback success rate. He had the highest pressure to sack rate in the NFL. He took sacks 14.7% of his dropbacks, the highest of any quarterback since 2000 higher than David Carr back in the day. He had a high interception rate. So just all those negatives. And I say that as someone who loved watching Justin Fields play last year. Like I hope this works out for Justin Fields. And he's throwing bombs to DJ more and that your confidence is rewarded and that he's a great quarterback.

I'm just like, like this would have been a really hard decision for me. Just speaking frankly, if I were in the Bears organization and Ryan Poles goes, what should we do? I would have had a hard time deciding whether to stick with Justin Fields and make the move down or just be like, you know what, these quarter, I like these quarterbacks in the draft a lot. Justin Fields has some warts, you know, to his game. Let's trade him and let's pick one of these quarterbacks ahead of him. So he's a great scrambler. He's a great runner. His limitation as a passer, maybe they were because of his supporting cast and everything around him. Maybe they weren't. That's the fun part about getting to watch this, seeing how players improve. He could be an

awesome player in 2023 and we'll find out. But that's like, if you're a Bears fan and you wake up tonight in a cold sweat, in a nightmare scenario, it's going to be that one of those quarterbacks we described earlier turns into a star and that it just doesn't happen with Justin Fields and you stick with him for another year and another year and he just doesn't turn out to be the guy you thought you were getting. So again, I don't know if that's going to be the case or not. I like him. He's exciting. He's fun. I hope it works out for him. He'll be given a much better chance to succeed next year than he was this past year, but he certainly has stuff. He needs to improve on. All right. Did we miss anything, Benjamin?

I just, there's all this, all this. I'll turn overworthy plays. Oh, sack. Sack rates just no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You too. This isn't on video. Ben was giving me, like, like, cut, cut, cut, cut, end the podcast. I was waving you off. You are, I already know the answer to this, but are you familiar with the That Boy Nice meme? No, no idea what you're talking. I don't do memes. It's the picture of the two guys riding a bus, and one of them's looking really sad out the window at a cliff,

and the other side of the bus just looking out like a beautiful landscape. And people listening are going to know. The moral of the story is this. You are the sad man looking at all the sad news, and I'm the happy man at the happy window, just watching Justin Fields break, tackle, stiff arm, cats, dive for rushing touchdowns. There's no problem.

I hope so. I love it. I loved watching those plays this past year. All right. That was fun. That was Benjamin Solek. That was Stefan Anderson. I mean, what a, what a emergency producer. The guy just steps up to the plate and sees the trade volunteers to produce this on a Friday night. Outstanding work by him. Outstanding work by Ben. We'll have a lot more to say about this. We will have stuff on the ringer.com about this. And you know what, Ben? I have a feeling we're not getting through this weekend without having some. some more major breaking news. So I think you're going to have more stuff on the ringer NFL feed this weekend. And if you don't, if nothing happens, then guess what? It's Ben and I back Monday night after the start of free agency going,

no bears. Why did you spend $17 million on a linebacker when we told you to spend that money on the offensive line or whatever moves we see these teams make? So we'll be back with all of that. Thanks to Ben. Thanks to Stefan Anderson.

Additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal. We'll be back soon on the ringer in the NFL.