The Ringer NFL Show - Big Offseason Mailbag! | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

Sheil and Ben dig deep into the EPT listener mailbag and tackle your most burning questions about the upcoming draft, offseason roster moves, and the current state of some of your favorite NFL franchises. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Producer: Chris Sutton Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Social: Eduardo Ocampo and Kiera Givens Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL draft this year. My name is Danny Kelly, and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Hyfitz, Ben Solak, and Craig Boralbeck. We cover trades, free agency, and the draft, obviously. We'll tell you about everything, including which quarterbacks are good, which quarterbacks are not as good, and which quarterbacks are just Kirk Cousins. Search the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. Welcome to Extra Boy Take a Chia Koppati here, joined by Ben Solak. We got a little mailbag episode. It is six days away from the NFL draft.

We are recording this on Friday. This time next week, So lax, the first round picks. We'll be in the books. We'll be talking about rounds two and three. That has to make you feel happy. You know how, like, oh, like it's the first Robbins of Spring, right? Like I have my tulips coming in the bed right now. Like, oh, the first signs of the changing of the season.

Once Jaden Daniels took a meeting with the Minnesota Vikings because he's mad that the commanders invited him to a top golf event, with 15 other draft prospects happen. Oh, it's the first Robin of Spring. Draft is just around the corner, right? That's your sign that we're like within 10 days the first round. Once it's like the silliest hijinks you've ever heard of in your entire life, we're back, baby.

Drafts right around the corner. That's right. That's when you know it is getting close when you start reading those headlines. All right. So thanks to everybody who sent in mailback questions. We're not getting to all of them, but we're getting to a bunch of them. So very good questions here. We appreciate those.

Let's just jump into it. it. And remember, for future mailbag episodes. So, like, I couldn't remember if I've only told the Philly Special audience this or if it was the extra point taken on it. We got a couple of people who threw in a little something there to debate us. I appreciate it. Two ways to get your question

in. One, compliment us. Me specifically. I mean, Solek is going to get enough compliments me, you know, something, anything. It could be anything about me. That's fine. That's one way to get it. Two, if you're emailing from another country, I can't resist those. I mean, if you're listening to this,

and another, that just something about that makes me feel so happy that I'm like, come on, I can't waste this person's time. I got to get to their question. So I should have told you that before this mailback episode, but we will have more in the future. All right, first one, from Luca, love the name, by the way. Question, at four and five, why shouldn't the Cardinals and Chargers simply stick and pick the elite wide receiver prospects?

While both teams have needs all over the roster, they also already have above average draft capital and glaring needs at wide receiver. Marvin Harrison Jr., Malik neighbors, Romadunzee, are all outstanding prospects, certainly a tier above what would be available in the teens. So the general assumption of these teams seeking to trade down makes less sense to me personally. Draft capital is great, but at some point, you need the players, right? Love the show. Appreciate all the work you both put into this.

Don't worry. I won't read, this is Sheel again, not Luca. I won't read all the compliments. You know, we're not going to be that. Naval-gazy, is that the term? We're not going to be that naval gazing. I don't know if you can make it an adjective, but I'm with you. I'm with you.

Okay. All right. All right. So like, what do you think? Cardinals and Chargers, big kind of pivot points in the first round at four and five. Do you like Lucas case that, all right? Everyone talks about trading down, but like you don't need to overthink it sometimes. Just go stay there and draft the wide receivers.

Where are you with those two teams? Yeah. I think Lou Geh had a really good point, right? Which is we like to come up with adages of team management, roster management. like you know you're one of the best at this right here's the six traps for jams not to fall into up on the ringer right though the blog right you have always like you know like ways to think about hiring or coach ways to think about approaching frequency but we have to remember that that those are guiding principles they're their guardrails and they work to a point they have exceptions right and so often

like i think one of the most regular things i get asked during draft season when it's like you know oh you just kind of do like uh uh uh like uh like uh and ask me anything on twitter or you do like uh you know whatever, just like, you know, your, people are emailing just about the draft show or something is like, hey, you said, like, you know, this team should stay here and take this guy, but why wouldn't they just trade back 10 picks? Get like the next best guy in that position, also more picks. It's like, yeah, like, that's good. That's good team building. It's always nice. Get more picks. Eventually you need like some star players. Like, eventually you need some blue chip guys. And sometimes, man, like, sometimes the second best receiver is way better than the third best

receiver. That's not the case this year. And so you can all like move back. And if you miss out on Malik neighbors, you're going to get Roma Dunezay. And like, I, Like, to me, that's, that's pretty square deal. Like, I think those guys are right there on the same tier. But that's why you go through and you grade, you grade out all these guys. So these guys are blue chippers. They're top 10 talents. These guys are round one grades, round two grades, around three grades.

So you can look at the nature of the class. And remember, teams also look at next year's class and try to prognosticate that. So you can say, hey, like, we know we need like a water super one. Like, we need a guy who might need to just get 14 targets one game. Like, we have to have that dude. And I'm not sure if, if anybody but Marvin Harrison is him. So we're just going to take him. Like we generally like the guiding principle of trading back and acquiring picks and getting more swings at the bat.

We want to be humble drafters. We want to know we're not perfect. But sometimes you just think that dude's way better than the other dude. And you have to believe that your scouting staff did the work well. So is that the situation for the Cardinals and the Chargers? I think for the Chargers a little bit less so. Because I think that team really needs, I think this is a one-year rebuild. They have a ton of issues all the way across the board.

I feel like that's the sort of team that can definitely, justify just trading back under a lot of context and really try to accumulate capital to make this rebuild a little bit faster for the Cardinals where it's like, hey, like they had some young talent show up last year and then, you know, they got some bones in place. Gannon and Austin Ford already been there for a season. Yeah, that's more so like, hey, like go get Kyler a star. Like you have Trey McBride, you have like Michael Wilson, you have Greg Dorsey. You have some dudes who can play. Go try to get like a dude at the top because that's what you're missing right now. That's interesting because I'm kind of reverse.

You flip them on those two teams. Now, I agree with your main point and I agree with Luca. I am not on team always trade down. You got to trade down. The smart teams trade down. I understand the concept. I know all the research, the history. I'm with you.

Sometimes you need blue chip players at premium positions. And guess what's hard to find blue chip players at premium positions through other avenues. Like they just don't always become available. We just saw it in the free agent market. I mean, look at what, I mean, Calvin Ridley got $23 million. per year. Gabe Davis got $13 million per year. And so it goes back to, you know, the old thing. Everyone realizes that if you get a quarterback on a rookie contract, that's really valuable. Because even if he's the 15th best quarterback, you're getting that at such a discount compared

to what you would have to pay on the market for the fifth. And it's similar at these other premium positions, wide receiver, offensive tackle. And so I would definitely be tempted if I were those teams, given the caliber of wide receiver prospects you have at that point in the draft, I would absolutely be tempted to just make the pick. So I look at the Cardinals. So like, and they've got 11 picks in this draft. Most in the entire NFL. They've got two in the first round. They've got six in the first three rounds. They did a nice job last year, trading back, then trading back up for Parrish Johnson. They've got Kyler Murray. I look at their defensive personnel, and I think it's among the worst in the NFL. And I look at their wide receivers. I know you just mentioned some names

who, all right, they're okay. They're also among the worst in the NFL. So like, I think, they actually need a lot of help and, you know, I could go either way there. If you said, no, just pick the wide receiver. You already have a lot of picks. I think that's reasonable. But I think it's also reasonable for them, you know, to trade back and get additional picks because the roster, you know, I think needs a lot of help. For the Chargers, I look at it and it goes back to what we always say, build the awesome

offense and then figure out the defense. And like, that is a fine path to be on. And I'm looking at their wide receiver room. Quentin Johnson, Joshua Palmer, Darius Davis, like, do you really want to waste a year of Justin Herbert with those guys as the wide receivers, especially when, by the way, the offensive line has potential. Like, I feel like we say it every year

and it hasn't always come to fruition, but like they have poured resources into that offensive line where all of a sudden if you tell me you plug in Marvin Harrison, Jr., or you plug in Malik neighbors, now all of a sudden it's like, all right, this offense has a chance to have a quicker turnaround than maybe some people think. So I would kind of be on board with the Chargers making sure.

Because I don't know what's there. Like they don't have another path to get a blue chip wide receiver. I shouldn't say that. The other paths are not as sure fire as it would be to just draft someone here. So I talk about the armpit test sometimes. You know, you want the opposing defensive coordinator. You want the armpits to be sweating on a Monday or Tuesday when he's game planning for your team. I look at that Chargers offense.

and I'm like, you know, yeah, Justin Herbert, but who else are you really worried about? So I think they actually have maybe a stronger case to just stay there and draft the wide receiver. Let me make a Chargers roster argument. Because you said like, oh, the Cardinals, like, you look at this defense of roster and you're like, geez, they need the picks.

Like, they need the volume. And the thing is, one, they already have it. Right? And so, like, do you have to trade back and get more of it? The second thing I would say is, while the Chargers defense looks better now, it's because Kalil, Kalil Mack and Joey Bosa were both willing to take pay cuts, just hang around for another year.

I don't view this roster as having Joey Bosa and Khalil Matt. Like, when I look at it on like a three-year horizon, I think the likelihood that both are there is like, both are there beyond the season is like maybe 5%. When the team is relevant competing for Super Bowls, they're not going to be a part of that. Yeah, I think that's true.

You can use, you can say like, you know, all like, and then like on the offensive line, like, oh, like, you know, they made their investments. Like, Corey Lindley, like, is not like, I don't view him as being on this team long term, right? He's had somebody health issues. He's getting up there in age. I don't think like Lindsay's going to be like a needle mover for them.

And they added Bradley Bozeman. Obviously they intend on him being their guy. Like some of the old vestiges that the guys who are the old pillars from previous eras of Charger football, they're just here because cap-wise is what made the most sense. Like I don't view them as long-term pieces. And so I do think that the Chargers who have less of that, that extra capital than the Cardinals do, I think they are more justified in going to find that extra capital, knowing that in a couple of years, they're going to have a holes at edge rusher.

Right? They don't currently appear to have. They're going to have them. Those are coming down the mountain. So I would want to be accruing capital, accruing future capital. Relative to the Cardinals, who already have extra capital, who made a lot of those young additional picks. I think your blue chip guys right now are Kyler, Paris Johnson,

and Buda Baker, question mark, right? Like, boot, I think maybe on the fringe there. I want some more punch in Arizona. I want some more armpit test there for them. So I like them to stay a little bit more like the Cardinal, the Chargers to stay. We don't do a lot of drugs. but if we did, I would enjoy, I would like a little bit more armpit test there for that from

you right there. I very much enjoyed that. Yeah, I think you can make a strong case for both. I wouldn't kill either of them for just staying there and picking Harrison and neighbors. I think that's perfectly reasonable for both those teams. For the chargers, your points, a good one on the defense. I would just, I would just be very intrigued by if I can pair Herbert with one of these wide receivers and like then figure the rest out, that would be very attractive to me. All right. Next question. This one was from Tyler. Tyler sent a long email, I think was Ben Solac versus Jared Gough, Bloodfew, was the subject.

Yes, great email. I read every word of it. I will be providing a spoke response to some of the stuff that we're not getting to. I'm going to shorten it a little bit here. He says, I'm not a Lions fan, a Rams fan, a Cal fan, and don't really have any affinity for Jared Gough. I totally understood why McFae wanted him gone a few years back. But at this point, what more does he have to do to prove

himself. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things with some outdated thinking, but what team wouldn't want a 29-year-old quarterback who always plays, wins the majority of his games, and throws for a lot of yards and touchdowns? He seems to have really grown into a leader for Detroit and is beloved by the fan base. How can you not be impressed by his growth and resilience? Getting shipped to Detroit and watching his former team immediately when a Super Bowl would have destroyed many a QB from where I am sitting, he is excelling at everything a franchise QB is supposed to do. And I And this is Sheel again. Not Jared.

Jared. Thank you. Oh, Tyler. Sorry. Thank you, Jared. Thank you, Tyler. And I know because you made a comment, I feel like our last episode, so thank you for Tyler for being an active listener, where you did mention something, a little throwaway line about Jared Gough that I remember. I thought about responding to in the moment, but then I just moved on from.

So where is Ben Solac with Jared Gough? Are you unfair to him? Is Tyler being more fair to him? What do you think? So, well, firstly, let's recover the Jared Gough throwaway line. You were talking about what teams in the NFC would you like to be the general manager of? He had a rank of him. Correct.

And we were debating lines versus Packers. And I said, oh, lines great, but the Jared Gough of it all, right? And what I meant by that was, Jared Gough is about to get a contract extension from the Detroit lines. All right. He is up. He's got one year left on his deal. They have him coming up. They have Pentee Soo coming up.

They have a Monra St. Brown coming up. and Goff, who Jared slash Tyler is absolutely correct. 30-year-old quarterback had recent postseason success, has had post-season success of multiple points in his career, has established himself as a star, has established himself as a franchise guy. They've been chanting his name in the building dude. Like, he is a talented player who's an ex-first overall pick. Who would not want to have this dude?

You are absolutely correct. Like when Goff landed in Detroit, he was the butt of the Shaw-McVey joke. He was the guy who McVeigh proved that he could make it happen with anybody, and now McVeigh would like for it to happen with a real boy. McVeigh would like to go get an actual guy. In Detroit, landing with Ben Johnson and some of the development there, Goff has not just found another situation. It's really good for his skill set.

He is also, like, improved as a player. Goff does not nearly crumble under pressure and blitzly he used to. Still doesn't like the blitz, but he doesn't crumble or fall apart or short circuit, nearly the way he used to. He is more willing to make aggressive throws. And he absolutely has shown, like, longevity and toughness. and that arm that got him drafted first overall still gets him out of so many problems.

So golf is a likable player, right? Golf is a starting caliber quarterback in the league. When you have to get to the stage where you're paying this guy, $50 million, $45 million, which is about where the lines are going to be, it makes team building and team management a lot harder. Because while golf has plenty of likable traits

and works great for that system, and Ben Johnson knows what he's good at, and golf knows what Johnson wants and there's synergy there and there's harmony there. golf is not an elevator the way that a Patrick Mahomes is an elevator, the way that a Josh Allen is an elevator,

the way that Joe Burrow is an elevator, the way Lamar Jackson is an elevator. And worryingly, it seems like some players like C.J. Shroud and Jordan Love might end up becoming those sorts of players in their careers where they can take a below average play from position groups,

or they can take below average scheming and they're not getting Ben Johnson stuff, and they can lift that up a little bit. We don't really know that yet for those guys, but there's a chance they're headed in that direction. Like, when I comps C.J. Stroud, who I love, like, I, I, I, you've all heard me go nuts on C.J. Stroud. I comped him to Jared Goff coming out of college. I thought that's about the

style of quarterback he's going to be. And that's a good style of quarterbacking. It's tough and it's aggressive and it throws over the middle of the field and it trusts the offense and it gets people to their spots, their buckets. Like, it is a good way of playing quarterback. It's just when you have a mediocre ceiling, which is the case with golf. Like, he absolutely plays on an offense that just has more training wheels in terms of play action, in terms of play calling than other quarterbacks do, that big contract starts to weigh on a team, right? You're not returning as much on investment as you used to. And so it's golf at the extension that is going to bring in a new era of Lions football where there's going to have a lot less

money in the margins. The St. Brown contract, the Sewell contract and the golf contract, it's going to mean that golf really has to deliver the way that we ask other $50 million quarterbacks to. What this really is is, it's the Dach Meridian, right? It's, Dak got that massive contract and he gets to the postseason and they lose to the 49ers and people say he can't be paying Dak this much money because he's not good enough in the postseason

he doesn't win the games you need him to win he doesn't elevate the team as much I think you and I would say no he does there are a bunch of who would say no he doesn't and that's kind of that line where it's like all right if you're a better quarterback than Dak you're probably justified making the deal you're making

and you're winning postseason games you're elevating and if you're a worse quarterback than Dak which I think golf definitely is it's hard you start to weigh on the team when you're making that much money in January football. So golf likable player, there's just issues with the fat contract that he's about to get from the lines. Yeah, I think I generally agree. I do think like some quarterbacks, and it's relevant.

We point to the supporting staff and the play calling, and you said training wheels. And then other quarterbacks, we say, well, they're doing it all. I mean, golf has been in the NFL as a starter for seven NFL seasons. And five of those seasons, his offenses have finished in the top ten. And those have been with two different play callers and with like different supporting casts. And so I do think like if I were him at some point I'd be like, what do you want for me?

Like the team had to give up an extra first round pick just to take on my contract. And now I was like, you know, if our defense played a little bit better, I would have been in my second Super Bowl in seven seasons as a starter. Like, you know, why don't I get any credit for this?

So I think there's absolutely a case for that. And like we have seen, like I said, five times in seven seasons, you can have a very, very, very, I mean, they've been top five in offensive DVOA the last two seasons. It's a good supporting cast. I don't think we would name it like an eagle support. Like, you know, it's not one of those.

We're just like, oh, my God, they're loaded at every position. Like, they've got good young players. There's no doubt about it. And Ben Johnson gets a lot of credit and rightfully so. But I do understand the argument for golf there. Like, they didn't lose to the 49ers in the NFC championship because golf played poorly. Like he showed up. He had a good game there.

He played absolutely well enough for them to win. So I'm with you. He's not Mahomes, Alan, Lamar, Burrow, whoever else you want to name. But if you're the Lions, it's like, all right, well, what's our avenue for getting a guy like that? Like, your best chance at competing might very well be just with golf. And so the contract thing is a huge deal. And I was looking at this kind of closely as I was preparing for the show. And my first inclination was, don't do anything.

Let him play out this year. You have the franchise tag in your pocket for next season. And then I thought, you know what, if they give him a deal this offseason that basically locks them into Jared Gough through, let's say, you know, 2026. Yeah, three years. The next three seasons while they continue to keep their eyes open if there are some dart throws to take in the draft, whatever. I actually think that's reasonable. He's at the age like, all right, you're right. It's going to become harder.

But that's what the money's for. Brad Holmes is you've got to figure out the other stuff on the roster when you're paying the quarterback that much money, but I actually don't think that that's unreasonable for them to do just because you have to look at what is your option that you have and what are your other options. And I don't think their other options are going to be like so much more attractive that they're like, all right, we can pay someone on a rookie contract who can give us this type of play. Like, that's really hard to do. I don't think they can do that.

So I wonder if that's what's coming down the line. I would think about can I go year to year because I want to see how long is Ben Johnson sticking around? Like, if you told me Ben Johnson was sticking with the team, I would feel great about it. But there's a good chance. And we don't know. We thought he was going to be gone this year that this time next year, Ben Johnson's gone. And now you have Jared Golf on a big contract.

And now you have a new Unproven Play Caller. That might be a tough spot to be for Detroit. And that's the thing is we were supposed to learn more about golf than we've learned. And like, oh, he's good with Ben Johnson. Like, oh, we'll see him without Ben Johnson before we get to this point, right? Didn't happen. And like, we were supposed to have like a break class in case of emergency. QB2 plan in place.

I'll get a young guy, developmental guy. Henan Hooker took six live snaps last season in practice, right? Just because he was coming back from the injury. And so they have a little bit pain to themselves into the corner where they don't know as much about the hypothetical non-Goff worlds as they'd like to, which is not to say that they'd get to one of those worlds, but say that it would give them leverage in the contract discussions. But golfs, also, golfs, like I agree with you, golf played well in the postseason period.

Like golf was good for the lines last season. Yeah. And it's always important to remember with some of the, guys who were butts of jokes in 2016, 2017, these Sean McVey and Kyle Shanean automatons. I'm thinking of your, your Kurt Cousins and your Jared Goffs, even your Ryan Tanhills to a degree.

There comes a point of escape velocity where early in their times in those systems, they're good because of the systems. Like emphatically, like the system is unbelievable training wheels, and they're just kind of like executing an amazing offense with good weapons. And like, there's no doubt watching them. I'm like, all right, like,

golf with the Rams was just like having his hand held literally like McVeigh's in his ear until the mic cuts off, right? Right. But if you just play enough NFL football without getting hurt and like really like losing your confidence and losing your control, which I golf dealt with that a little bit, Rams Alliance,

but he kept the ship afloat. You eventually just see enough and get used to enough and get better at recognizing the blitzis and recognizing the coverage rotation. You get enough experience that you start to be like actually for real good. Like no, like this is you now. Like this is no longer the offense. You're playing the offense, but it's a grown up version.

It's a 2.0. That was Kirk in Minnesota, right? With Kevin O'Connell, they're doing some grown-up stuff, and that's certainly golf in Detroit. So you get an escape velocity where, okay, like, I had the train wheels for so long, but now, like, I'm just driving down the hill. Like, I've got it now, Dad, don't worry about it.

And so while it's always a little bit of fun and nostalgic to take the Mickey out of golf, because we were doing that a lot in late 2010s, and again, rightfully so, now, like, it is important to remember when these guys start getting to veteran status and, like, there's something to think about for Brock Pertie as he spends time in San Francisco and what Jay-J McCart? he might be in the league. These guys start for long enough.

You just start to actually get good. The experience that helps you out. And the mentally tough, mental toughness point that Tyler made, I think that's true. I mean, look at what happened to Carson Wentz after his career hit a stumbling block. I mean, now he's bouncing around as a backup.

Like Jared Goff got absolutely blamed. He got the team that drafted him after he got, played in a Super Bowl for them, told them they didn't want him. Another team had to throw in a first round pick just to take on his contract. And he didn't fall apart. He didn't crumble.

He went to a new place, made the most of it, and now is having a good career. So, yeah, that's absolutely something else to keep in mind. All right, let's take a break. We'll come back with some more questions. All right, we are back on extra point taken. Now, so like the next question was not on the rundown that I sent you. I'm surprising you a little bit, a little move here because I got multiple questions about this.

And I was like, do we? And then I say, listen, if it gets like three or four questions, is we have to address it. And so, Chris, if you have a moment, can you play the clip? I think if they had a grandfather offer that the Cardinals are absolutely going to say yes to, that deal would have been done by now. So I think one of a few things, maybe a couple of a few things can be true. One, the Vikings are just not putting all their cards at the table, not sending the grandfather offer,

because they're pretty confident that they'll be able to beat the Broncos offer, beat the Raiders offer. They know if on draft day the Broncos come with a great offer, the Cardinals will call them back, we'll check in, and then they can beat it by a pick. Oh, they feel they don't have to put their grandfather offer yet. What is what? This is a thing I said. What is it the grandfather thing?

It's supposed to be Godfather? Yeah, that's all. Oh. What is a grandfather offer? Yeah, I was definitely thinking Godfather. And then I just said, I said grandfather accidentally. Listen, there is not a tirade that has been given on extra point taking. You go find any single one you want where I haven't said a word incorrectly.

All right. I'm batting zero for a trillion in like a monologue where I actually use the English language as intended. These, these go right through me at this point. I don't feel anything. Now, listeners did want to know, have you ever seen The Godfather? No, absolutely not. You have. I didn't think so. Yeah. So Godfather offers from the movie The Godfather. And listen, it's a bad job by me. I mean, I like to pride my, I make fun of you. You're checking Twitter during the show. I like to be an active listener. I feel like I know when to chime in, react to what you're saying. And I didn't catch that right away. So really, it's a bad job by me. And it's a funny job by you.

I would like to just adopt a grandfather offer. I don't like, I don't know, did somebody's grandfather make them an offer? They couldn't refuse. That would be interesting to me too. So I like having our own language for the show. So if you want to make, if you want to stick with grandfather offer and make an hour thing, I'm open to that. But I had to play the clip because so many people mentioned it. Every time I say it, there'll be six new listeners who didn't hear the previous iteration.

And then they're confused by and figuring it out. I cannot stress to you enough how like, I used to like, oh, dang. And now I'm just like, I don't care. speak is hard like we do this on NFL draft show all the time English is very challenging move we keep it moving we keep it sweet

All right so that was a playful jab at you But I need to give you credit for something so like Because one of our first shows that we did You came out with a take And you receive some criticism You receive some support And I have to say You were right about that take

Do you want to know what the take was? What's that? Jeans are bad Yeah obviously You had this take very early on And I said who was this new guy? I'm podcasting with. He's coming on with these weird takes about jeans are bad.

I had very limited social outings. I had a social outing last night, meeting up with some old co-workers. I get dressed for it. I throw on some jeans. I go, they're so hard. They're stiff. Do I want to do this to myself just for the look?

Took them off. Put on new pants. Felt great. So I dress, like if you watch the NBA playoffs this weekend, my new like, you know, look that I go for is I want to look like an assistant.

on an NBA bench. That's basically how I dress. Those nice, softish, they're kind of like a golf pantish type thing that are nice and soft. Sneakers, that's how I dress. And so So, Solac, you were wrong about Godfather versus grandfather, but you were right about jeans. So there you go. It all balances out. My great aspiration in life is just be athlete leisure guy, dude. Like, I just want to be like an out of shape. Clearly hasn't gone to the gym in months. Dad who's exclusively wearing athletic jogging just would just work out clothes. No, no, no, no, no. Like, this is, this is more like obnoxiously bougie. All right.

This is, I'll, I'll never do this because I'll, I'll be far too self-conscious. What we have, we have the, the Vori Joggers, right? That, like, the everyday joggers, like that's the sponsor of the feed. I just want to be walking around of Vori Joggers, just all the time, achieving nothing, accomplishing no things that people who are wearing Vori Joggers are supposed to achieve. That's, that's my objective. There you go. Good to have goals in life.

All right. Kyle says, she'll love the show. Big Time Ex Pat here. This one's directed towards me. He's taking a jab at me. Casey is my hometown. Obviously, I'm having the time of my life as a football fan right now. So with that, I say this from a place of genuine concern.

I implore you to examine how the past five years of evidence might influence your ratio of doubt in the chiefs and belief in the bills. Otherwise, great takes. Keep it up. Can't wait to listen Friday. Good question. It was a good question. You know, a little self-reflection for me here.

So I thought a couple things. And you as someone who has had to listen to all my chiefs and bills takes for two years can let me know what you think of this. I'm definitely guilty of judging them by different standards. But I think what I'm doing is trying to react to the general discourse that I hear. And I know I would call you out for saying, well, who is it? And it's just, I don't have anyone specific. It's just like I feel like the bills get. You may say the general discourse and I won't body check you, okay?

I just assume that you are consuming NFL coverage or any reasonable journalism. Don't do that as if I would treat you the same way, because I would not. All right, I guess that's fair. It's like my 11th grade history. Oh, source? Oh, source?

Source? No. The football people. This is really a shield Kapati's got to look in the mirror type episode. Yeah. So I think that the bills, I feel like, get buried prematurely very often. And so I often have to come on and make the case that, no, don't bury them.

They're going to be in the mix. They're still a very good team. And then I think the Chiefs thing is just like, I don't, I'm not comfortable in a world that's just like, oh, they have Patrick Mahomes. They're going to win the Super Bowl. Like, that's boring to me. I like to dig a little bit deeper. So I'm fully on board with the idea that as long as you have in Mahomes, you have a chance to win the Super Bowl. But for the Chiefs, like, you got to maximize.

I know right now it feels like they have, and they certainly have. But you have like a window here with Patrick Mahomes that if you're a Chiefs fan, you're never going to have this window again in your life where you have a quarterback like this and you want to maximize your opportunity to win Super Bowls every year. And like there are other issues with the Chiefs like that NFLPA survey, they got an F-minus for ownership. They were below average in every single category except for, head coach. So I don't think they deserve credit for being like all buttoned up everywhere and

when it's really like if you have Mahomes and Reed, you're going to have a certain floor and you're going to have a chance every year. But like it doesn't mean it's going to continue to happen. And I understand this sounds stupid right now, but the Patriots went nine straight seasons with Brady and Belichick where they did not win a Super Bowl. Like it's really, really hard to actually win it. And so I reject the premise that the chiefs are like inevitable and we can't criticize them. Like they won a coin flip game against the bills in the playoffs and they won a coin flip game against the 49ers in the Super Bowl. It literally went to overtime. If the results of those games were different, then we'd be sitting here and you would be open to more criticism. So that's all. I understand.

Like, I have not historically been some. I've been on the other side. Like, as long as you have my homes, you have a chance to win the Super Bowl. Obviously, I still feel that way all the time. But I do like looking at the other aspects of their team building ownership, roster moves, and being like, are they doing enough? Is this the right way to do it? Because that's, That's a good conversation to have. When you have undoubtedly the best player in the entire league in his prime, what decisions do you make to make sure you don't waste even a single year of his career? So that's where I'm coming from with those two teams. But you're right. Absolutely in your assessment, Kyle, that I do judge them by different standards. To me, it's like, well, the bills are in the mix and have been really good and people are burying them. And for the chiefs, judging them by are you doing everything possible? to make yourself a Super Bowl contender every year. So there you go. The other thing that I would say, which like I think that the take is fair, right?

You're sitting there as a Chiefs fan, Kyle, and you're like, dude, like, I watch this team. Like, they've got it. The bills don't. Like, that's a fair assessment. Yes. I would say that that assessment can be shared by a lot of people who aren't Chiefs fans who are less like involved with both teams than you are, like, who are less like embedded with the Chiefs and subsequently embedded with the bills.

And you're just from the outside being like, well, the Chiefs beat the Bills in the 2021 postseason. They beat in the 2022 postseason. And so the bills aren't good enough. And it's like that that's an over simplification, right? Like I think an honest Chief fan, an honest Bill's fan would know just how thin the hairs were in some of those early 2020 games. Certainly like this season was a weird season for both teams. But those are those postseason games where they were both like in their prime rookie contract John Allen and the Holmes. Like the margins there were razor thin.

And so we can look back on that Bill's Chiefs rivalry, which I kind of throw in quotes, thinking of the Jewel Embed, Celtics, it's not a rivalry if they always beat our ass quote, right? Where it's just like, okay, like, you know, like, it's hard to call it a rivalry with how much the chiefs have dominated in the postseason. But when you look at that interchange, I think it's easy to go from now in hindsight and be like, yeah, like the chiefs are clearly dominant.

And the bills were undeserving of our faith. Man, like two different bounces of the balls. And it's like, it's a real 50-50 proposition. And that's a reminder of how close things are in the NFL. And so, like, I think that Kyle's arrived at your read on the two teams in the correct way. I think it's easy for people to arrive at the same read in the incorrect way. And so that's what you want to be addressing as a national pod relative to a chief spot, where you're trying to get some of the color to people who are just consuming the league and

they're Cowboys fans. They're trying to understand the Chiefs versus the bills. Like that's, that's mind and she'll job, kind of. There you go. Well said. All right. Cody says, my question is having an owner such as Jeffrey Lurie that is willing to pay for contracts up front, is that one of the biggest competitive advantages in the NFL right now after having a QB, a rookie contract. Been thinking about that a lot with the comparison of how the Eagles first, the Cowboys approach free agency, how much of that edge can be made up by teams that don't spend as much,

like the Bengals and Bills, who each have a ton of comp picks in this draft and likely future drafts as well. So a couple questions in there. So like, you want to start or you want me to address this one first? I can start. I think it's a substantial competitive advantage. Now,

the more degrees we move away from the, the football field. Like with, you know, a rookie quarterback, a rookie contract, like, that's one degree away from like the football field. It is a competitive advantage. It's kind of easy to see how it manifests itself. The more degrees we move away where it's like, owner who's willing to be aggressive, like, it becomes harder to see like, okay, it's definitely a competitive advantage. How good is it relative to like elite left tackle? Man, that's hard. I don't know. Like, it's really hard to gauge the level of the edge there. With that said, I remember when the Deshaun Watson trade happened. I remember when the Joe Burrow extension was being discussed

the Bengals. We had a lot of talk about escrow. We had a lot of talk about how when you sign a contract and when you sign guaranteed money to a deal, you as an ownership, you who is the owner of the team, you need to put that guaranteed money into an account to prove to the NFL and prove to the player. Like, here is that money. It is yours. Like, these are the guarantees. We have the ability to pay out this contract that has all these guarantees in future seasons. Inherently, the more cash rich your owners are, i.e., the more money that they have slash the money that they are willing to put into the activity of the team, it's going to enable you to sign bigger contracts with larger guarantees right now,

which is just how you get players on your team. The way to get players on your team is to give them contracts that have guaranteed money now. I'm going to sign the deal that gives me the most, and I know we'll give me the most and it gives me the most to the earliest. Accordingly, you sometimes run into Bengals' greatest problems where they just don't have a ton of money. Those aren't cash rich owners relative to the, grading on the league scale.

And so they run into the first half of the issue where it's just harder for them to sign that many contracts with that big of guarantees and accordingly like attract free agents slash handle their business when they've got a bunch of big money free agents coming up. The Cowboys fall more into the second half of the issue. Jerry Jones has got the money. It doesn't seem to like to put the money in escrow.

It doesn't seem to like to dedicate the money to the success of the team, which I am so dramatically out of my depth in understanding how money works. And so, like, I'm not going to, like, there might be reasons why. There might be terrible reasons. Good reason. If in the outside, it looks ludicrous. I have no idea that's for somebody else's job to figure out the logic there.

But that's how Jerry seems to be behaving, just observing. And that puts the Cowboys in a spot where when they are signing contracts, they're signing them later than they would have otherwise. And so they cost a little bit more. Players are getting to the end of their deal. So they're getting frustrated, right? They're trading a Marty Cooper for a fifth round pick. Like, it creates just a little bit of a less healthy environment for team building.

So certainly it is a competitive advantage. And it goes a lot to what owners have. at their disposal and how they want to behave. Again, it also comes back to the general manager kind of understanding that advantage, being able to utilize it. We talk about the job security of Howie Roseman relative to other general managers. So it's compounded in Philadelphia by a couple other factors. But in general, man, if you want an owner, get you an owner that has a ton of money and is willing to give you longevity, right? Because Dave Tepper, Walter Pendon Group, a lot of money. We don't know about the longevity yet. And so there's a trust aspect there.

There's a long-term view in the room aspect there that we've yet to discover with some of these new money owners that have come in. It's a great point with Howie Roseman. I mean, Howie Roseman has built a great roster with the Eagles. They've been in the Super Bowl, what, two of the last seven years. Howie Roseman would have to operate in a different way in a different organization. And so again, it's not fun. Like, I don't really like giving owners credit. It's like that's not like a fun part of the content job.

Like, this owner is great. I like ripping the owners. You all know that if you listen pretty consistently. But like Solac was right. And again, not to bore everyone, but the basic idea is if you give out big bonuses, that cash gets paid right away to the players when they sign. They like that. It goes right in their bank accounts.

And then for the salary cap, you can prorate that bonus money over the course of the entire deal. And when you hear this term void years, you can tack on void years to the end of the contract. And that prorated money can go in those years too. So basically, you're spreading out this lump sum into four, five, six, seven years, whatever it is. And that's a fine idea if done smartly. Obviously, you don't want to go overboard, but the reason why it makes sense is because the cap is going to be higher in future years. And so you can afford to deal with that. So it gives you cap flexibility now and it gives you

a little less in the future. But again, if the cap's rising in the future, you're not so worried about that. So that's one way to operate that has given the Eagles an edge. There's no doubt about it. Other teams will prefer more of a pay-as-you-go structure. Those players are going to have higher-based salaries every year. And the entire base salary of a given season counts against the salary cap. So that is going to be harder for those teams to maneuver with the salary cap given it could be the same total amount of money, but it's an accounting tool. It's how do you spread it out. And some teams with owners that are willing to spend, they can spread it out over a longer period of time. And teams that don't have owners that are willing to spend cannot do that. So you look at it right

now, Eagles are second in cash spending. They've been up there for like over a decade. You don't want to just look at it in one year. The Cowboys are 30 second in cash spending right now, and the Eagles are second. Like, is that an advantage for two teams competing in the same division? Again, one that is actually drafted better, I think, the Cowboys than the Eagles? Yes, absolutely a 100% advantage for the team with the owner that's willing to do that. And I actually think it's been a big storyline this offseason. It's been a smart storyline this offseason that Jerry Jones deserves criticism and that Cowboys organization deserves criticism. for the way they've managed their roster

because all these things, the excuses they like to make about the cap and you can't pay everyone and it's about, like, it's like, yeah, that's because of the part, partly because of the way you're managing the roster there. So it's a good question. I think it is a big competitive advantage.

And then just a touch real quick on the comps. It's nice to have compics. I honestly think they probably are a little overrated. Like you're talking about day three picks. It's nice to have those. A lot of those are going to be dart throws. So much has to go right to get the compics. the player you let leave has to sign a big contract, has to stay healthy.

You have to not bring in a matching free agent. The whole point is that it is compensation for something bad that happened, right? So teams are always like, I'll let him walk for a contest. For you losing a good player and not picking up a good player. You have to lose good players, sign big contracts and then not sign equivalent contracts. You have to get worse as a team in order to get picks. I should help you get better faster. Now, obviously, there's more slash new conflicts now with like, you know,

if you have a minority front office member who gets hired away and you get conflicts. So there's more ways to get compics. you do see some teams who just end up with like five extra picks. He's like, okay, that's sick. Like that is objectively extremely helpful. But the traditional comp pick mechanism is, hey, like a bad thing happened to you. You lost a good player and didn't get one. Here is the 103rd overall pick.

I hope you feel better. Yeah, right. The pro rated point is a really important one. We got another question that we didn't necessarily get in here where somebody said, why do we always talk about contracts in terms of like, oh, he's the highest paid quarterback. He's the highest paid quarterback. Like, of course he has the caps going up. We should talk about in terms of percentage of the cap.

And that's absolutely like, it is the case. It just, it's hard to talk about it that way. It is clunky and janky. It's a lot easier to be like, 55. That's a big number. But when you pro-rate money, you're basically saying a dollar is less valuable today when the cap is $230 million versus in three years when the cap's going to be $260 million. There's just, there's one dollar matters less.

It's a smaller fraction of the money I get to use. It's inflation, right? And so, again, like, so like your general proration approach is good. Like, that's where the saint's wisdom comes from. That's the Saints team philosophy. But what do Mickey Loomis and Jeff Ireland have in New Orleans? Stability. They know that they're going to be running the team in a few years.

So they can do this in a way that general managers who lack stability don't want to do it. Of course, the best general managers who lack stability will just go and borrow from future years. Because, hey, if I get fired, I ain't going to be here. So that's somebody else is a problem, that dead cap it. Don't worry about it. Do we start a financial podcast for the ringer? Do we pitch that? I don't know.

I would want to see. Neither of us have any idea what we're talking. about with finances. I think that's been established. I think if you knew the date on which I filed my taxes every year, you wouldn't want to do a financial podcast with me. Thank you to Cousin J, CPA, who does the company's taxes every year because there's no chance that I know what I'm doing with that. I pay for a couple round of golfs, throw maybe a couple gift cards, a little money on the side, and then he does drive the taxes. So thank you. Find yourself. Listen, you got to find yourself people who to surround your, so this is what my dad found out when he moved to this country.

You had to find yourself people to surround yourself with that will help you. It's too hard to do all this stuff. Landscaping and taxes and all the other stuff grownups are expected to do. You can't be expected to do all that by yourself. It's impossible. You've got to find people to help you. So there you go. That's my life advice for the day.

All right. Next question. Tom, first I wanted to say I'm a fan of the pod. Winter gets him through Chicago winter days. As a Michigan football fan, I've had the pleasure of watching several Mike McDonald and Jesse Minter coach defenses. Are we underrating the potential drop-off of the Ravens defense

and what it could experience this season? I imagine they'll have another top 10 offense, but it really felt like the defense was a driving factor behind much of their success late in the season last year, and they'll be losing several starters along with potentially the best defensive coordinator in football. On the flip side, Are we possibly underrating how good this Chargers defense can be if they're able to find two to three capable starters, a big ask, along the defensive spine in the draft?

I'm not sure there is a coach who is better positioned to get more out of Khalil Mack, Joey Bosa, Derwin James at this point in their career than Jesse Minter. I hope to hear back from you. But if not, have a great rest of your week. A little great closing. It's like, listen, if you want to answer it, you answer it. If you don't answer it, I'm not going to hold it against it. you. That's a nice job out of Tom W. All right. So like, where are you with this

Ravens defense? What do you think? I'll give you a couple numbers here because I look this up and then you can tell me what you think. They had 14 players log at least 400 snaps on defense last year. Among that group, they have lost six. I have four. Four. Okay.

I was trying to remember off the top. I might have miscounted. Okay. Patrick Queen, Gino Stone, Gino Clowney, and Ronald Darby. Honestly, when I did that exercise, I'm like, oh, it's not as bad as I thought. Am I missing someone big? You're looking at me like I'm missing someone. Is Millette back? Oh, I thought Millette left. Melet's back. Okay. That's good news. All right. So what do you think? They still have Madabouquet they brought back. They got

Roquant Smith. They got Kyle Hamilton. They got Marlon Humphrey. They got Marcus Williams. They've still got some very good players. They've got a new defensive coordinator in Zachor, 31 years old, second youngest in the NFL. How do you feel about this Ravens defense going into the draft, I should say, and then 2024? They are a defense that I thought overperformed to their talent level last year, right? Like, although they were better than the talent level would indicate. And we know the defense isn't sticky and you tend to be really good defense next year. And then it just regresses because a couple of bad things go your way.

So that plus you lose Anthony Weaver, who leaves to be the defensive coordinator of the of the, uh, uh, you lose Mike Donald, head coach of the Seahawks. You also lose Anthony Weaver, who was your defensive line coach and your associate head coach. He leaves to be the defensive coordinator of the, uh, of the dolphins. You also lose DeNard Wilson, who is your secondary coach. He leaves to become the defense coordinator of the Titans. that level of brain drain, plus also losing some talent, plus the unstickiness of defense,

absolutely unequivocally, the Ravens defense should be worse next season. I think it's still going to be a pretty good unit, but just met of UK, Rokwon-Smith and Kyle Hamilton on the field at the same time, you're going to play some good football. They absolutely should be worse. Do I feel in my belly like they're going to be elite again? Absolutely, right?

Like I just, I love the way they were built. I love the approach. It's worth noting like, yes, they lost Donard Wilson. Yes, they lost Anthony Weaver. all the guys were in the building and they chose Zachor. Like they're like, this is the dude that we would like to be running our defense, right?

And so like they lost their dudes, but they also got their guy in a sense, right? Like they could have Bruno Wilson. They could have a periive like this. This is the guy that they wanted. So I think like I'm excited to see what Zachor does. And I think that that, uh, again like Madibuki Rokey, Roke one into Kyle Hamilton.

Like they have three. Ooh, man, that is nice. And it's the spine, right? It's how they built it philosophically for that defense. Um, I Roke one is a top five linebacker without question. Kyle Hamilton is a top five safety. Like that sounds rich. We were saying that in like week four, dude.

Like he is, the film is unbelievable. Matabuque is probably more like top eight, but still, like you've, you've some blue chip guys on the defense. There's still that level of talent. Yeah,

like I think the Ravens defense is going to be good. They're going to take a step back because the best defense in the league always takes a step back. It's kind of inevitable. So I'm worried about the brain drain. I'm worried about the talent drain. But it's also,

if you wiped away 2023 for me completely and you pointed me at this defense, I would say, I don't know anything much about Zach Orr, but if he's got chops, you can make something out of the, out of the personnel that they've got, or you can make a good unit out of that. So I still have faith in the Ravens defense

to be good, if not so impactful. It's exactly where I landed. I looked at it and I go, all right, they lost some guys. Mike McDonald was awesome, but your point about Orr is a good one. Like, Harbaugh, like Orr was getting some looks from other teams as a defensive coordinator.

Harbaugh and the organization looked around and said, which one of these guys do we want to promote? And they know them all well. they've all been all been in the building and they picked Zach Orr. So it's like, yeah, it's not like they, you know, other people left for head coaching jobs and they had to just promote someone. They had their choice and they picked him. They still have, I mean, Rokane Smith, you said top five. I mean, I think unequivocally two probably behind Fred Warner.

I don't even know. And then I think there's a drop off probably with every other linebacker in the NFL. Kyle Hamilton, if I did a preseason all pro team, he would be on it at safety. And then Matabuque, we know really emerged last year was good before that, but was great. great last year is a young ascending player. Marlon Humphrey is still a good player. Maybe not the player he once was. Marcus Williams is still a good player.

And then you trust the infrastructure. It's like you said, I just trust like the Ravens are the one team where it's like, wait to look at the depth chart until September 1st. I shouldn't say they're the one team. They're one of the teams that like they're going to continue to add guys and they're going to be good in that spot. So yeah, drop off yes.

I'll do my defensive rankings in August. They'll definitely, I feel confident saying being in the top 10. And guess what? when I sit down to write that, they might be in the top five. I mean, I don't know that there's a lot of other defenses. I'm going to be like, oh, I trust this one more. What do I want to be wrong about? I want to go down with the ship of believing in Roquan and Kyle and Medibuque, right?

That's just, that's, that's, that's what you want to trust in. And I also will say, like, I think they're going to address offensive line early. Would not be surprised if they throw a ton of darts defense because what, what made them so good last year was like, okay, like Hamilton and Roquan and Madibukey, it's set in a good floor for you. What made them so good last year is they understood how to use Malik Harrison and Kyle Ben Noi and Arthur Millett and Geno Stone, right? They're just great at getting guys who can fit a role and get them on the field and get them into that role, right?

They're provided such versatility by their stars that they can meld and fit around what's available. So they're the exact sort of team that's just like, to take like a weirdly big, good athlete at corner in round four and only play them when you're on a press guys. I just go get Cam Hard in Notre Dame and he's just your press dude. You put him out there to press. They can get away with that in a way the other defenses who are much more rigid in their structure can't, which is always cool to see. Now, we touched on the charges earlier, but let's hit on it real quick here as well. They were 26th in defensive DVOA last year.

I think people like Brandon Staley more than I did as a defensive coach. I know there were some one-off samples that were impressive. I thought he never in his tenure there showed an ability to do more with less. I like the Jesse Minter profile. You know, I thought that was like if Harbaugh didn't come to the NFL and I were an NFL team, that would have been a guy. I would have absolutely looked at. He's been in the NFL before, so it's not new to him.

He spent four years as an assistant in the NFL. Then he goes back to college, was awesome at Michigan. And so I look at it, and I hear what you're saying about Mack and Bosa, like not being part of their core in the future. And I think that's right. But I feel like they have a chance to get to competency. Like, I think they could be a mediocre defense. There are absolutely some holes on the roster. Quarterback as a whole.

You have to see, can Joey Bosa stay healthy for more than he has? Khalil Mack's going to be 33. Derwin James wasn't an impact player last season. So there are absolutely our questions. But I feel like with Minter, I sort of am a little bit bullish that they can get to like a better defense than they were last year,

get to around maybe, I don't know, the 16th to 20th best defense in the NFL. Yeah, me too. The defense, they were always extremely disappointing and underperforming under Staley. They were underwhelming.

And simply like a good defensive coach should get more out of the Chargers defensive personnel than Staley was ever capable of doing. Is that Minter? From what I saw Michigan, sure. you know, college to NFL jump is a big one. One of my guardrails is like,

I would not be hiring coaches out of college. Like guys who have no NFL experience to jump up, like that scares me. Usually I'm talking about head coach there. I think coordinator you can get away with that a little bit more. Mentor benefits from the fact that McDonald just did it, right? And so McDonald, oh, he was the Michigan, D.C. And he was from Baltimore.

And then he became a D.C. in the league. Now he's the head coach to the Seahawks. And so like the path is well trod, right? You can do the thing the guy before you did. oh man if only it was that knee and easy right if only that's that's that's how it went and so i don't i knew a lot more about macdonald and and had heard a lot about how he teaches and and and and how he interfaces with guys and and and what his system is like and how he thinks about well i'd heard a lot more about him when he was kind of stepping into the league circles than i know about

minter um and so with macdonald i was like right like i am invested in seeing what this looks like i've heard a lot of really good stuff mentor i i don't have nearly as much on it so he's very blank slate for me. What I will say is that this defense, that McDonald and Minter, you know, McDonald has his authored and passed down to Minter, and Minter is iterated, it does tend to minimize the role of

and the need for elite edge rushers. And so I will be curious to see, right now in L.A., if you're going to have a good defense, there's three reasons, and two of them are the edge rushers, right? It's Khalil and Bosa being healthy and being really effective. Then the third is Derwin James. I know for a fact that they're going to use and like a Derwin James.

the edge, like you've never, you really haven't seen this defense, both the McDonald iterations and in the Minter iterations in Michigan, really be like, oh, and like, and now we, we, we maximize our edge rushers potential here on third down. It's all sim pressures and edge rushers are dropping off the line of scrimmage and they're cut inside of the B gap and they're lining up in the B gap. It just minimizes their role. The big question for Minter, right, if I go to Chargers camp next year, the first thing I'm going to want to see is how he's lining up these edge rushers and what he's asking them to do. That's the first riddle for him to solve. All right, let's take a break.

We'll come back with more questions on extra point taken. All right, we're back on extra point taken. Let's get to the next question. We'll pick up the pace a little bit here. I want to make sure we get to all these. Paul says, if the 49ers trade Brandon Ayuk before the draft, what receiver would best fit their scheme at the end of the first round? Do you have a wide receiver that you say, ooh, you know, end of the first round?

So we're saying no neighbors, no Adunzei, no Marvin Harrison Jr. Probably don't, I don't know, can Brian Thomas Jr. be in this mix or not? No, right? Okay, so who are we talking about? Maybe like a Keon Coleman, maybe a Ladd McConkey, maybe Xavier Worthy, Troy Franklin, Roman Wilson, Jalen Polk, Ricky Pearsall. These are guys in that next tier. Do any of those strike you as a, ooh, that would be a nice fit for the Niners if they were to trade IU?

So who fits? sight unseen who fits the offense like Xavier Legat is an incredible fit Malachi Corley that's out of South Carolina, Western Kentucky. Those are two players who respectively have gotten some Debo-esque comparisons because they're shorter guys they're really thick, they're really great after the catch,

they're really great after the catch. Ligette's got the long speed, Corley's an insane tackle breaker like immediately those two dudes pop out. Now if you're losing Ayuk and you have Debo, you're probably not looking for a Debo type, right? And so while those guys fit the roster, they fit the scheme, that's probably not

the directions, how the tree they'd bark up, because you want to get a little bit more of like a one-to-one Brandon IUC replacement. You don't need to be in that paradigm, but you do want a guy who has a little bit of a different skill set to Debo. You want your wider receiver room to be complimentary. When you go and you look at who they have behind Iuca, I think you see this. They spent a third round pick on

Danny Gray at SMU in 2022. Then they have Ronnie Bell, he was their like fourth receiver would step up when they had an injury last year, seventh round guy to Michigan. Both those guys are a little bit more, your speedster type, your downfield type, your thinner athletes, your looser athlete, sort of a dude. And so if they're, if they're pursuing that more of that, Brandon Iuke construction, more of that, that sort of a body type, Troy Franklin or Oregon, but I think he's way too thin for them. Xavier worthy out of Texas, but I think he's way too thin for them. You've got to be able to take hits in this offense.

You have to have some body armor to you. Accordingly, I think Ricky Pearsall out of Florida was the first guy who came to mind. I think it would be good for them. Jalen Polk out of Washington, I think it would be a really good fit. That'd be really rich, in my opinion. That was the one I wrote down. I could just see them liking him being like he could come in and help let's right away. The thing about Polk is that Polk runs a son of a gun of a crosser, because he doesn't care about his body at all, right? He will die for the football. And so I like Polk to the Lions a lot. I like Polk to the Niners make sense. So Ricky Pirasol, I think they're Jalen Polk, but both those are a little bit rich.

The guy who I think stands out as Ladd-McConkie out of Georgia. Yeah. Ladd is the one where Ladd's got enough juice to be a good intermediate receiver. He's not going to give you the speed of Danny Gray, right? The speed of brand-ne-the-reel, like the real downfield stuff, you're not going to get as much of that with Ladd. what you're paying for is a really, really good separation. So if you're paying for a guy who's really excellent in a 101 circumstance, which one of the best things about this offense is how frequently can get its receivers lined up one-on-one on the outside because of the box count issues it provides.

And so if the Niners are taking a receiver at 31, you may be bet on one dude. I would bet on Ladd-McConkie, the Georgia receiver, to be going there. McConkey and Polk were the guys I wrote down for that one. All right, Evolved. This is from Evolve, because that was the name on Twitter, Evolve. Mailback question all the way from Australia. You knew you were getting in Evolved. The Rams have their first round picks,

the first round picks since 2016. Crazy. What do you think is the best use? I know, it is wild. One, trade up for a blue chip talent. Two, trade down for more capital. Three, stay put at 19. I was looking at this,

and you can absolutely make the case that their defensive roster needs a lot of help. I mean, they signed Tredavius White and Darius Williams. They lose Aaron Donald. Are those other young players So we said, oh, these guys look pretty good last year. Do they look the same without Aaron Donald?

And then I thought about it. And I said, Matthew Stafford is 36 years old. Sean McVeigh is their head coach. I think wide receiver or offensive tackle. I mean, Cooper Cup is in his age 31 season. So I know you got Puka Nakua last year, but I still think you could take a wide receiver who plays right away and gives you some depth

if Cooper Cup goes down or declines. And then offensive line, huge investments in their interior offensive line, in the offseason, but if there's a tackle that they really love there, I could see that. So I thought wide receiver and offensive tackle stay put, or I wouldn't be shocked. You know, I guess I mean,

I might be a little. So I think they're more likely to trade up maybe because, I mean, I don't know. You Stafford is 36 years old. Like, you're probably just like, we need a player here.

So I don't know. That's where I settled on it. Where are you? And one of the consequences of the Rams approach to team building, where they haven't had any of these first round picks, is they just have a bunch of dudes on rookie deals on the roster because they've made so many picks, right?

And so you go and say like, I think they need to be better at defensive tackle. I do. I think that especially losing Donald. I know that you had Kobe Turner, who's great last season. I think they need to be better on the defensive line.

You go and you look at their defensive line room. There's just a bunch of guys they recently drafted who are cheap who've taken reps. You don't want to like oust one. Maybe you like these guys. Develop these guys. You got them into the building.

And so I don't think trade back because I don't think you need to be just making more picks at seven. and more picks at 86, more picks at 104. Like, you have so many rookie contract guys here. You've set that already. That's what gave you the money to go spend on Jonah Jackson

and spend on Kevin Dotson and spend on Kobe Parkinson for some reason. Like, you've got that done. So accordingly, I am 19 or up. I do think that offensive tackle is a spot for them. Corner and defensive line to me are still spots where I would like to have more impactful players. I think they did a really nice job in the secondary this year. I'm just being like, okay, Darius Williams, Stradivius White,

Cam, Curl. we got dudes. We can play. We can field a secondary last year, which we could not do at all. But you're not really long-term plans on either, any of those guys, right? Like, Cam Crows is a two-year deal. Trudevice fights a one-year deal.

Darius Williams is like a three-year deal, but I don't know if you want to be really trust in that. With Darius Williams, seems to be a very mercurial player. And so to me, like, I would love a Cooper Dijine. I would love a defensive back at 19 if one of the corners is falling, Taroni, Queen of Mitch.

I think you can move up. And then defensive line. right? If you're there with edge rushers and you're there with Byron Murphy, the defense to tackle out of Texas, like all of these guys, the top three edge rushers, Lato, Versen and Dallas Turner, along with Murphy are projected to be a top 15, top 16 picks. One of them's falling or falls to you at 19. Goff, go and make that selection. I think it's time for a little bit more blue chippers. Make a first round pick. The last guy was great. Jared Goff. He's a league defining player. Can't tell the story of football last 10 years about Jared golf. All right. Dillon says, hi, Ben. You rock. Two questions for you and Shieldtaponda. We're actually just getting to one of these. Does this quarterback class have the potential to flip the script on the AFC versus NFC narrative? It certainly feels like at minimum, three out of the top four quarterbacks are going to

be taken by NFC teams. It feels like the AFC has dominated with top quarterback conversation for at least a decade and should continue to do so. But could this draft start to turn the tide in the other direction? What do you think? So the reason why I like this one is that if we get a, an outcome that's quite likely, which is Caleb Williams to the Bears at one, and like, let's say Drake May to the Vikings at three,

two new rookie quarterbacks in the NFC North, and then we get Jaden Daniels to the commanders at two, and Jada McCarthy at six, two new quarterbacks in the NFC East. Flip the entire narrative? Probably not. There's just so many good quarterbacks in the AFC. Close the gap some, certainly. But in particular, one of these two divisions might just be like insane football

over the next several years, right? You think about what the North might be, golf on an extension, plus Caleb Williams, Drake, May, and Jordan Love, if that's what we get. Think about what the East might be, if, like, Daniels and McArthur ended up good, you have Jaylen Hertz,

and let's say the Cowboys are able to retain Prescott. Like, I don't know if we can get the whole conference boat to turn around, because the AFC has developed strides on the NFC, I don't know if they're going to be able to cover in just one draft. But all four of the rookies might end up on NFC teams, and particularly might end up in the same divisions. And there's a chance of, like, NFC North football,

over the next 10 years is like a point in 10 years five years is like a pointment television man like bears like bears defense Vikings defense that all these teams are enough that if they get good quarterbacks like the north dude the north the aFC north and the NFC north might just be like the two best divisions it's like everybody has winning records all the time and it's down to the wire and stuff and like that appeals to me i love how much the north and the east hate each other right I need more of that in my life. And if every one of those teams could be good, that will please me in the NFL season.

So I'm very much rooting for like, let's get some really good young players in the NFC. Let's make them play each other twice a year. And let's do Mahomes and Allen, part two, man. Let's do it. So not to be a Debbie Downer here. I could tell you were bursting my bubble, just by how you were looking.

No, I mean the most likely scenario is what, that two of these quarterbacks work out, right? That just what history would tell us, two of them work out, two of them don't. And then I'm going through the AFC, and I'm just like Mahomes, Alan, Lamar, Burrow, Stroud, Herbert.

Like, that's one tier. The next tier, which, like, by the way, if any of these quarterbacks turn into these guys, that might be a good outcome, like Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rogers, Anthony,

like, there's a lot of wild cards in the AFC that we... Did you just put Tua in there? Well, well, too, I, like, yeah, listen, I'm not a Tua guy. If you look at Tua's career, far and that's an outcome for like JJ McCarthy's first whatever years in the NFL. That will absolutely be considered a success. Did you just put Tua in there?

Yeah. We're listing elite quarterbacks in the AFC that are going to like... No, no, no, no. That's not what I was doing. You weren't listening. I list the elite and then I had the wild card tier. All right. We're listening guys who have a chance to be elite quarterbacks in the AFC.

No, that's not what wild card means. That just means like they're not on that top tier, but like that like Tua hasn't been like a failed draft pick. for the dolphins. Jared Stidham, wildcard. We don't know what he is. It could be anything. No, false. Jacobi percent. What if he was going on to spot, what it's good for him? Put Tua in there.

Yeah, Tua and Jared Stidham have had comparable careers. Yeah, good call there. Listen, you're the dolphins guy, okay? And not me, but I'm just saying. Because I can see what it would look like if they had a real boy back there. And now the next email back we do, I'm going to get, why do you hate Tua questions? Yeah, please send those to Only Soul X or send them to me. I'll get a good laugh out of them.

All right. So I don't think that, like, maybe, maybe the start. If one of these guys is a stud, Caleb Williams, maybe two, then you have the start of it, but I think it's still a pretty wide gap. All right, Ben and Shield, is there a team that could, should use the Green Bay model? This was a great question and draft a Bo Nix or a Michael Pennix, Jr. At the end of the first and let him sit for three years to grow into a starter, ex paddily yours, AC.

That was well done. I was looking at this going, man, there's like a juicy question for like a Monday extra point taken. Like, Team X had, draft the quarterback out of nowhere. What were the teams you came up with? Because I had, I was like,

ooh, going through the second half of the first round. I was like, they could do it. They could do it. Oh, yeah? I only,

I only came up with two that I actually like. Oh, I don't like any of them really, but I like them for content. Oh, okay, okay. Go ahead. What you actually like is like,

I could describe this as defensible. You and I have, we're grading on different scales as usual. one of the reasons why I wanted to bring this this question up is because right now in Fandall Michael Panix over under draft position 32 and a half with juice to the under. Penix is

according to Fandall Sportsbook more likely to go in the first round than he is not. Bo Nix is also over under 32 and a half. A lot of juice to the over. They think he's going to be outside the first round but still that line is set at 32 and a half. Now we see this all the time. I don't expect Panics or Nix to be a first rounder but this is being talked about right and so

if not Bo Nix had 12 to the Broncos Michael Panics at 13 to the but we're getting to 24, 25, 26, and teams are thinking about trading up for that rookie contract, that fifth year option, who might be the team to do so. The two teams that stand out to me are the Seattle Seahawks and Los Angeles Rams. Those are the two squads for whom I think that at future investment in quarterback could become a reality for them pretty quickly.

Start with the Rams because you brought up like Stafford, he's getting old, go all in, like compete, they went to the playoffs. We forget last year just how, like this time last year, our world for the Rams was not like, Oh, Pooka Nakua, rookie the year. It was like, I wonder if Stafford's elbow works. We didn't know if he was going to play football. Yeah, it was like, is he going to retire? I wonder if the old man's back doesn't hurt enough from to play quarterback.

Like, that's where we were at. And so every NFL team is a couple bad hits away from like disaster. The Rams really viscerally, truly know, like they are a couple bad hits away from like disaster. And remember, this team invested in one of the earliest picks that they had last year, Stetson Bennett, the quarterback out of Georgia. He was a fourth round pick for them. And then Bennett, I think had some big personal issues. he hasn't been with the team in a while.

I don't know if football is in his future. Accordingly, like a quarterback of the future is, I think high on the Rams draft needs. I expect them to take a quarterback fairly early. So I could see them trade in the end around one if they really like a guy. Seattle Seahawks. They went and they got Sam Howell.

They have, like, Gino is a perfectly fine, adequate player. Like, there's like a, I think Gino is like even better than the words I used to describe Gino. But I use softer words.

Like, let's take a median outcome. Like, he's a fine player. I don't think they need to be pursuing quarterback of the future that strongly with Gino in hand and with Sam Howell on the roster, the rumblings are that they are looking to do so. The rumblings are that they are willing to make that investment. When I sit down and I think about it, like, yeah, I get it because there's a team

that took a third round quarterback in Russell Wilson when they had a presumed starter. They let him win the job in camp and then to define the next 10 years of football. Like, John Schneider feels like the way he knows how to build teams is by throwing darts a quarterback and getting one of them to hit. And he has two darts right now and Gino, who they brought it. as a backup and he hit kind of for them. They have another dart and Sam Howell, who Shield Capadio was the head coach, the Seahawks. Sam Howard would be starting.

Not what I said. Might as well, might as well go and get a third dart. And so I would not be surprised for Seattle, who like generally has like a lot of young talent at a lot of positions on the roster. Like, they need a linebacker, but do you want to be taking one at the end of the first round? Like, they need interior office line and get one of those later.

If they want to make a, you know, trade back from 16 all the way into the late 20s and go take Pennex to go play for Ryan Grub again, like it'd be hard to totally fault them for it. So those are the two teams stand out to me. Those were two that were on my list. How about the one we just mentioned? Wouldn't it be juicy if the Miami Dolphins at 21

said, you know all that talk about giving two of that big contract? We like one of these other guys. And we're just going to take them. They can operate on Mike McDaniel's offense. They're going to be fine. So that would be juicy. Very juicy. To me, I don't, yeah, that would be fun for me. This one would be

the biggest story in the NFL draft if the Dallas Cowboys at 24 drafted a quarterback with their pick. It said, yeah, we'll wait and see on DAC, but you know what? It can never overinvest in a quarterback.

We don't have anyone on the roster that we really like. Oh, Trilands. They love Freelands. So we're going to go ahead and we're going to draft a quarterback there. And a Bucks at 26. I don't know. Like, what's the Bucks plan?

I don't know. So that was, and then this one, you're going to like, the Detroit Lions at 29 with Jared Gull on the last year of his deal. They just say, you know what? We love a. Michael Pennix, Jr. We couldn't resist. You're all going to make fun of us again. And I'm going

to be dunking on you, Brad Holmes says, next year at this time. So those are the ones that I thought were the most interesting to me. So something to keep an eye on. Good question. By AC. All right. Thank you to everyone else. We sent in a question. We'll do another Milberg episode at some point. So don't worry. We will get to all of those. Thank you to Benjamin Solac. Thank you to Christopher Sutton and Eduardo Ocampo. You know, so like I sent them a message. Hey, I don't want to give you extra work, but can you get it? Can you get me that Solac clip of the grandfather offer? I mean, you know, Christopher says it responds quickly. We'll get it before we could even talk about. Eddie has already got the clip into us. I'm saying, how did I miss

this the first time around? So thank you to those guys for helping with the production as always. Good to know you had compatrious. Good to know who betrayed me. That's excellent. Additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna, Ram Gopal. I don't even feel like you're going to get me back on this very soon. No, you're a lot more intentional with your words. No, the role I play on this podcast is not like return and come up, it's persecution, right? If I got back at you, then I couldn't complain about the many ways in which you persecute me.

So instead, it would just be let it fester, let it sit. And then four months from now, when it's something similar comes up, I'm like, oh, and we're just pulling clips of our co-host saying things incorrectly in this supportive work environment. You can hear me doing that, right? That's how I go about my thing. It's very passive-aggressive, all right? I need to have a talk with your wife.

What does Solex say about me after we do a show? What are the words that he uses to describe? You would not like it. Because I'm very complimentary and very loving, and you hate it when I do that. I will bribe your soon-to-be daughter here in the future and get the goods from her in future years. I want to know what the Kaepa daughters think of me. I truly do. Because the Kapaya daughter-old.

Yeah, they love a Ben-uncle. So-Lak-uncle is what you're known. And that's great. I'm thrilled by that. I know that they love producers. Cliff. I know they've, they've, they've sent personal videos to Nora. I just, I don't know. We sent a video to Solek

Uncle for the, uh, for the Girls Scout cookies. The gifts you sent. Yeah. No, and you sent very thoughtful gifts in the holiday season. So yeah, you got the videos for those. I want to, we'll want to meet them. I want to hang out with them. They seem really cool. All right. They, they, they like creating content. So we can get you

some more videos. A little too much. So like, so like, Solac and I will be back on Monday. We'll do a little draft prediction. So like, should for that should it just be bold predictions? I was going to ask you this all fair, but let's hash it out now real quick. Should it be bold predictions? Should it be kind of like here are picks we like with Van Duel lines? Should it be either or what do you think for the Monday

shot? I think it's bold predictions. I think it is I think it's trying to call some shots. I think it's looking very silly if we're taking some swings. Yeah, looking very silly if we miss. Looking very cool if we hit. Because I think that you and I don't, you are like good at talking about the reasonable stuff because we're like, oh, 50-50 could go either way. I see all the projections, which is not

fun for predictions. It's better to go for like the 90th percentile stuff on predictions. So there you go. Monday, bold draft predictions from me. And so if we do regular predictions, I'm going to come in with like, oh, Graham Barton, under 21 and a half at minus 135. And you're going to get mad at me. Exactly. Yeah. Let's take some swings. All right, everyone. Have a great weekend. We will talk to you Monday where we will be days away from the draft. Until then, have a good one. And we'll talk to you soon on extra pointe. Must be 21 plus, 18 plus in D.C. and present in selects. States. Van Duel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino, LLC.

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