The Ringer NFL Show - Biggest Questions Heading Into the Draft | Dual Threat

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Nora, Steven, and Austin return to discuss the news around Bill Belichick’s offseason and job search and talk about J.J. McCarthy. Then they go through the biggest questions heading into the 2024 NFL draft. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Nora Princiotti, Austin Gayle, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL draft this year. My name is Ben Solac and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Kelly, Danny Hypatts, and Craig Horlebeck. We cover trades, free agency, and the draft, which is, yeah, obviously. We'll tell you about everything, which includes which quarterbacks are good, which quarterbacks are bad and which quarterbacks are just Kirk Cousins. That is the Ringer NFL Draft Show. Search the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. Hello and welcome to Dual Threat. I'm Nora Pinsiati and I am joined, as always, by Stephen Ruiz.

And since it is, our last first. full midweek episode before we go all draft all the time next week. We've got Austin Gail here as well. Austin, how you doing? He's fist pumping right now. It's like a dirty short. I'm living the dream. I feel like I came in hot, pre-record, and I'm running hot now.

I'm ready to rock and roll. Yeah, Austin has been dropping some takes. We played a little overrated, underrated, impromptu on the on the pre-show call. Talked about our coffee orders. Austin has had, you had a venti this morning or at a Trenta? I went venti, went venti. Okay, okay, just a venti. There was a Trenta phase.

I had a Trenta phase. You had a Trenta phase. I felt myself coming down off the cliff. I felt myself, I saw the conversation with my doctor at 40 saying it's over. So I kind of, I pulled back and now we're in the venti. When does that happen for podcast listening, like the three times? Yeah, the, now I'm gradually getting into like two. 2.7x on the podcast listening front, but only with podcasts that I listen to all the time.

Like, you have to create this, like, habit around, like, knowing their voices, knowing their cadence. You can't do it with every pod, but that's where I'm at. I simply don't know how you even can understand the words. Anything approaching, you get past 1.8 for me, it sounds, I'm just, it's completely impossible. I respect it. It's a talent. You have to, like, drip it. You have to drip it, right? It's like, you start it to two, and then you get to 2.1. You're like, okay, I can add a little juice, you get to 2.2. Over time, I think I could hit five. I don't know. We'll see.

There must be an outer limit of just like the ability to copy my head. But I look forward to hearing you stretch the boundaries of human oral ability. Sometimes I'll listen without headphones and my girlfriend will hear and she's like, you're going to lose your mind. You're going to wake up hearing voices sometimes. because I watched all eight seasons of suits at 1.5X, and she's not happy. Let's just say that. She's not happening.

Can't be doing stuff like that with entertainment products. I might have touched the sun on that one. Icarus was jealous of how high I went on the, on the 1.5X for eight seasons of suits. That was too much. That was too much. Have you started watching football on different speeds? You're going to be like, well, this watch receivers.

He's really fast. Yeah. Would you ever? Because you couldn't really do that. Because if you were able to watch film sped up, it would sort of erode the ability to form the right takes. We're still watching football at the same speed. Sam Schwartzstein, Big Sam, the guy, you know, Sam Swartzstein.

He's behind the prime broadcast on Thursday night football. He had a tweet the other day where he was talked about watching football games at 1.5 speed. Nah, I'm out on that. I can't do it. I can't do it. this is the guy who watched suits at 1.5. Yeah. Everyone has a line.

Yeah. Yeah. So the eighth season's horrible, too. Seventh season might be worse. Eventually, the main guy leaves. It's bad. It's tough.

That's when I stopped watching. I was into suits for a hot minute, but not eight season of suits. All right. This is an all draft show. Well, I guess it's not, because we're going to talk about some news at the top, but it's mostly draft-related news,

with one exception. But we're going to do. do a little bit of news, mostly pertaining to the draft. And then we're going to go through six big questions a week before the draft, basically, that the three of us felt like it would be fun to get into just to sort of set the stage. But let's start with the news and nuggets, including a new ESPN story. It's from Seth Wicker Sham, Don Vanada, Jr., and Jeremy Fowler, and it goes into Bill Belichick's job search and why he didn't get hired by any of the teams that we're looking to

replace their head coaches this offseason, in particular the Falcons. And so what was interesting that we learned in this story is that Belichick thought that he was getting the Falcons job. And then it turned out that not only did he lose out on it, that the Falcons internally voted on their top candidates and he didn't actually make anybody's, any of the decision makers top three. So he felt after he met with Arthur Blank that he, he was, that he was, he was, he was, that it was his to lose.

And then when it really came down to it, the executives there, obviously preferred Raheim Morris, but also were just a lot cooler on Belichick than he thought they were. And according to the story, according to the sources in the story, part of that had to do with a conversation between Falcons owner Arthur Blank and Patriots owner Robert Kraft

were close friends in which Kraft told Arthur Blank, according to the sources in the story not to trust Bill Belichick and that he couldn't trust Bill Belichick. The Patriots have denied this, have said that Kraft wouldn't have employed Belichick for as long as he did if he didn't trust him. But this was pretty juicy.

I thought, Stephen, you were actually the person who texted me the link to this story this morning and we decided we needed to talk about it. So what did you think of all this? Yeah, I thought this, I was very surprised by the details in the story, even though we've kind of gotten the big picture idea of how it went down in Atlanta, like even like a month or two ago.

But my biggest takeaway was this league is just overthinking itself with the Belichick thing. And I think this is proof that they look back on that Patriots dynasty and pick out the wrong reasons why it was so effective. Like the idea of the Patriot Way is really blocking Belichick from getting another job, it feels like. Like not just the idea that like the Patriot Way was the reason that they won and that's like no longer a thing and he can't replicate it. But it feels like everyone expects him.

to come in and institute the Patriot way. There's only one way to win a football game. And I really don't think Bill Belichick believes that. We've seen him win football games in many different ways. And according to the report, he apparently was willing to work under a GM and work with the GM. So I think it was like Belichick being like, hey, I promise, I'm not the guy you guys think I'm going to be.

I'm not going to be that guy. I just want to come in and coach football. That's all I want to do. And they're like, no, you're Bill Belichick. You're going to do the Bill Belichick thing. And like if I was like Terry Potteno, and like the ringer was talking to another. guy that did quarterback rankings and

like film breakdowns and also happened to write about March Madness, I'd be like, no, I don't think you should hire that guy. Honestly, like, if you're asking me, in my opinion, you shouldn't hire that guy. So I don't know. It just seems like the league overthought this, especially with like a team like Washington who has this new regime coming in

from a different sport. They have had success, although limited success, like the 76ers have never been to an NBA finals, but they have their way of doing things. And I think they're setting their way and they're like, this worked in basketball. So this is how we're going to do it in football, which would be a major red flag for me. And then there's David Tepper who apparently the reason why he wasn't interested

because he loves to pour over the data and criticize playcalling, and he wouldn't be able to do that with Belichick. That was incredible. If anybody hasn't read this story, I encourage you to go through the actual text for no other reason than when they get to the part where they're just laying out sort of what went wrong with Belichick's candidacy for every job. They get to the others, and it was just like, David Tepper didn't feel like you could have a meeting

where he criticized all of Bill Belichick's in-game decisions. Sorry. This explains so much. It explains why he hired Matt Rule. If I wanted to have a coach I could punch down on, I'd hire a bad one. PFF Dave over there. Is that what you're going to say, Austin?

Yeah, PFF Tepper. PFF underscore Tepper out here wanting to criticize. No, that's also just scared to compete. I don't think I could have a meeting with him because you'd show up unprepared and he'd know more than you. That's the problem. I think that my takeaway from this is, one, if you're thinking Washington has overthought anything, you're crazy. They've underthought it.

Okay, they're underthinking in Washington. I think that the strong GM stuff that's in there, they talk about how Washington really believes in this, like, strong GM system. It comes from the NBA, comes from what the owner has done with other places. And it's like bringing Belichick in, even with the strong GM is such a huge improvement over the coaching stuff that I think they have brought in with Dan Quinn. I think that the Washington piece is underthinking it. I think David Tepper is going to David Tepper in Carolina. With the Atlanta stuff, I agree that Fontno, the GM for the Atlanta Falcons, was probably like, I don't know if I want this guy in here.

He's someone that has shown he can strong arm. I also think it's scared to compete. Scared to compete with Belichick, you're going to go toe to toe with this guy. It's tough. And like Belichick can get into a room and say, I understand that I've come in a little power hungry at times. and I had full control in New England. I don't want that anymore. I'm here to, you know, just coach.

That's all I want to do. I've said that about meeting sometimes where I'll say, hey, you guys run this thing, no problem. I'm all over it. I'm saying on mute. I might turn my camera off. You guys lead the way. I catch a little miss up.

Like, hey, I was thinking this. Maybe we could try. And like that, to me is like what would happen as soon as they make one decision he doesn't like. Which is not a fault to Belichick. Maybe not a fault to me. But it's like, he's like, I want to do this right. I think I know how to do this right.

And he's going to be like, He could say in a meeting room all day long that's like, dude, don't worry. Bonno, you do your thing, man, bring in all these guys. I'm all for it. They make one little misstep. Belichick's going to grab the reins of this thing and try and whip it the whole way as he wants. And then when you factor in, which I thought was an important part of the story as well, this thought that he's only got maybe two or three years left.

And blank, I think very fairly being like, I don't want to do this again in two to three years and reshift the culture and reshift everything. That I think actually has weight because not even just throw out the like he wants 15 wins then he's quitting. He's 71, 73 years old at the start of next season, 72 at the start of this season. He is old. And I do think that that conversation, or at least whether it was with, you know, the other executives with the Atlanta Falcons or even just internally with Arthur Blank, I do think actually holds weight where it's like, okay, we could do two or three years of Belichick with the, you know, concerns that we have and also with the polish that he brings and

obviously all the experience that he brings, or we can try to start something fresh and try and bring something in. I don't know. I kind of felt both sides. Now, I feel like it's funny that Kraft is denying that he said anything candid about Belichick. But what I honestly think is happening is like, this is how I feel about Belichick. This is like obviously what happened into England. Robert Kraft's called Bill Belichick a pain in the ass in a documentary like two months ago. Exactly. I'm pretty sure he said some stuff to a close friend.

I think so too. But I feel like he's just being honest. I feel like it's stuff that Belichick would say about himself too probably. I don't know. I do feel like the Panthers thing makes no sense. The Washington thing makes no sense. Atlanta, I don't know, I do really like, I do really like Rahim Morris. And I actually am kind of convinced that he came in there and was like, dude, I have ideas. I'm ready to bring it.

And I don't know. I think it's tough. I think Belichick, my favorite quote of the story was when someone said, like a source of a source said, you know, Belichick in the meeting with Arthur Blank was asked by Blank, why have the, you know, why haven't some of the guys that you've coached under you developed into good coaches? And he's like, yeah, those guys are better soldiers than generals. Just literally just shits all over. everyone that's ever coached under him. He's like, yeah, those guys are soldiers. Sorry about that.

Yeah, yeah. What else are you going to say? Like, you're going to mount your defense for Josh McDaniels' head coaching resume? Joe Judge, Bill O'Brien. Yeah, probably not. Probably not. Those guys just didn't get enough of a chance. It would have worked out in the long run.

Give me one more year with Joe, Judge. I'll figure it out. I think Robert Kraft is getting way too much agency in all of this, frankly. And, like, yes, it's interesting and juicy. see that he had a conversation with Arthur Blank about this. I think owners bitched to each other all the time. People in the league bitch to each other all the time. That's pretty standard operating procedure.

What I think seems to be going on is a combination of, it feels like there's an undercurrent of just like Bill Belichick at this point is the Patriots organization's sloppy seconds, kind of. And any team that might hire him knows that decides, some extent you're hiring him for the resume and you're never going to get the credit. Like, he's never going to be yours. You're never going to actually get the shine that it feels like you should get for hiring Bill Belichick.

It's really just if you want to hire that guy, you're hiring football acumen. I think that's being underrated right now. I think somebody would have, if not hiring him for the actual position, I mean, for goodness sakes, a couple other teams should have interviewed the guy. Like I like Harbaugh with the Chargers, but I've just got to say the fact that the Los Angeles Chargers didn't take the opportunity to be like, hey, Bill Belichick, why don't you sit down with us for four hours and tell us how you would fix our Cursin football team? Like, that to me is always going to feel like a missed opportunity, even if you don't go and actually make the hire. It just seems like teams look at him as somebody else's guy. And I think owners have an aversion to that because they're not.

They just sort of want the credit. And two, I think it's just laziness. Like, you read into all of those different examples, and it's just the theme through all of them is just change is hard, and Bill Belichick might ask us to change things. A lot of those teams shouldn't be too scared of change. The Falcons thing with the contracts, when Rich McKay, when he was asked,

like, why don't you put, like, incentives to working out around the facility? During the off season, Rich McKay is like, oh, we just don't do that. You never done that. And by the way, Rich McCay, How is this guy still? How is he such a loud voice in the room still? This guy has been living off the 2002 bucks defense for 25 years. Enough.

And that wasn't even him. It was Tony Dungey and Rod Marinelli. Get out of here. And ironically enough, Rahe Morris is on that staff. The thing, one, Nora, I think that's super well set. I think that you're 100% right. I think owners looking at him as someone else's guy and the sloppy seconds piece, I think, is apt. I think the other piece that they're thinking about is you're getting a two to three-year commitment from Belchick.

Max, right? Maybe four. If he stretches it, but like two to three, maybe four from Belichick. You're also either getting him and you're giving him full reins and you know what that comes with, right? There's positives there. There's cons to that. Can I say that I believe him when he says that when it seems like he's saying that he's not requiring full reins? Actually, Bill Belichick as the leader of everything in Patriotland, Bill Belichick ran an organization where a lot of subordinates did not necessarily feel impact. or let into the rooms where decisions were made. But when he did give someone responsibility, I don't know a lot of anecdotes about him like being a super micromanager.

He doesn't give people a lot of leash. But the things that he asks people to do for him, I think historically he kind of lets them, he picks his guys and then says, you know, you run, with the exception to the defense in New England, just because that's his thing. like Josh McDaniels got to do what he wanted to do on that offense.

Matt Patricia kind of did too. There's not a huge amount of micromanaging I think that's in his DNA. It's more being very judicious about who's led into the room, which I guess is a subtle distinction, but I just, I don't,

if he is developing this reputation for not letting people do their jobs, I don't think that's right. Yeah. I think that's super fair. too. I think him being a good delegator and something that we haven't seen in the media either is him being like, well, I don't run the

offense. He's not like burying people. He kind of protects his guys and I think he delegates well. I think what my view of in terms of like relinquishing roster control and working with a strong GM or whatever and like that kind of stuff, what I'd be interested in is how he'd handle

that piece of it in the media, how he'd handle that piece of it with the staff where it's like I didn't pick that guy. you know what I mean like how does Belchek go from I pick every guy who enters this building including the coaches and both my sons and all the players go to a situation where it's like I didn't hire this guy and I didn't draft this guy and I the contracts thing I wish we had off to how does he how does that change because if he's the competitor I think he is it's gonna suck for him that would suck that would suck to feel like I've won as many rings I'm one of the most successful and I don't know he's been I'm honestly not totally sure that's true I think I think he's, I think something that is that got underrated is the fact that if he is saying that he is actually willing to not be the guy on personnel, that with the exception of things that would be baked into the cake, like who's the quarterback? Does he feel like the roster

gives him a chance to get those extra 15 wins and pass Shula? One of this guy's hallmarks is, I'm going to take what I have here and I'm going to figure out what they're good at. I don't think that, I don't, yes, Belichick has had a lot of control historically and that's been a tenant of the Patriots organization. I don't know that he deserves the full brunt of the I need to shop for all of the groceries.

Because I just think that so much of his attitude towards team building is, we have who we have, let's figure out what they're good at. Now, obviously, when we're talking about Tom Brady, Jimmy Garoppola, like the sort of core legacy building decisions in terms of quarterback and ego and the three people most centrally involved in New England over the last 20 plus years, it's a little bit different. But I'm not sure that I hear this idea that, like, oh, you know, I don't like my defensive tackle rotation. So I'm going to be like he would just figure out how to use those guys.

Yeah. I think so too. He might drop like a passive aggressive comment. Like instead of like criticizing someone's outfit, you're like, oh, you're wearing that. Yeah, that's what he would do. I think he didn't agree with. Yeah. Oh, you're taking.

Is that coming from a particular place, Stephen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like, I don't like Austin's. I don't know. God damn it. It stinks. No, no, I'm kidding.

It's a good show. I mean, look, like, it's just juicy to gossip about the Patriots and the former Patriots. Can I ask really what we're doing here? Can I ask one thing to wrap this conversation? Totally. In your mind, Belichick, forget the GM stuff. Is he a top-10 coach in NFL right now? That's where I was going to, that was the last thing that I was going to bring up is like,

yeah, yeah. I think he's probably like 12 or something like that. You see what Matt Jones does to a man's reputation, man. See, that was I still think That was another thing from that story. The place to land the plane here, I think, is that we also have to acknowledge that We're having this conversation because he's Bill Belichick and because of the resume.

I still think he's a good coach, particularly I think his defensive resume as a peer coach for the last couple of years is still very strong. That said, if you want to tell me that a bunch of teams looked at the last couple of years of how the decision making has run in New England and how he's coached that team and said, eh, no thanks. When you add in all the other stuff,

I don't think that that is like a massive scandal. You know, we're talking about it because these are titans of this sport. But I don't, I don't think it's like a travesty that. Yeah. he doesn't have one of those 32 jobs. I think the additional information in the reporting, which you have to shout out,

you know, Wickersham and Fowler, that's like some of the, you know, best reporting we've seen in a month there. I mean, it's just such a fun day when there's like a fun. So fun. You see that byline and you're like,

oh, I'm going to get my coffee. Yes. And then I think, I think that, I think it's, it's cool to know that Blank and Kraft had this conversation

and maybe Craftly some shade in addition to the docu series. The bigger piece of that I think involves a lot of this conversation is why wasn't there an all-out bidding work for Belichick? We can answer those questions, right? It's because of how owners view the sloppy seconds and some of your point. It's because of literally Blank's question to Belichick in that meeting, why do you, the people that have coached under you not do well. It's literally the roster control stuff. Like all this stuff that we're talking about is a factor in why not every single person was like,

Belichick, Belichick, Belichick. It's this like, you know, like this mask of stuff that I do think is why he ultimately didn't get the falcons job is what's, you know, messy in this, in the article that came out. Why he, like, every other team is kind of like, yeah, I'm okay, not even going to interview him. It's probably the larger conversation about how he's handled coaches, how he's handled personnel, and what does this next era of Belichick look like? How much of the range does he want to grab?

Yeah. All right. Next story. So the NFL put out the invitations to the player prospects who, will be in the green room on draft night. 13 players are going. Brock Bauer's and Joe Alt declined, not attending. But here's why I wanted to bring this up.

According to, I saw this on Pro Football Talk. I don't know if there was a different original reporter here. J.J. McCarthy did not respond. Just leaving the league on red. I love it. I don't know. Maybe I'll show up. Maybe not. Austin. Would you leave the NFL

on red if you were invited to the green room. Probably. No, I don't think so. I'd probably be like the first response. Sounds good. It works for me. Just sounds good out there. I think Jay's too busy. He's too busy grinding. I feel like, you know, that's what it is. Left him on red because he's working. Sorry, I'm putting in the effort. I'm waking up at six and going to bed at 5 a.m. because I'm grinding. I think he's just so committed to the game and so committed to the craft that he doesn't even know how to open up an email. He's just constantly spinning football,

is constantly working on his interview technique and all this stuff. I think he commands the huddle. He's the same guy that those reports came out where like when people were getting recruited into Michigan, he's like, if you guys think you're going to party here, we're going to play football. I think that's the same thing. He's like, you think we're going to answer emails here. We're in the wait room. So I do think he's just like a Martin Scorsese not using a computer thing.

Yes, yes, yes. That's what I think he's just so committed to the grind. He's so committed to the grind that, you know, emails are for the birds. And he tells his agent, he's like, don't even answer. Don't answer this guy. You're grinding too. We're out of. You're watching film with me.

I'm going to spit it the other way. I'm going to say he thinks about it so much that it's a green flag for his awareness because he knows, he's like, hey, man, I could be QB3, I could be QB4, I could slide all the way. I don't want to embarrass myself. So this is like a noseball moment for him to decline the invitation. You don't want to end up like Aaron Rogers. You don't want to be sliding in the draft and the cameras on you every time.

You don't want that. So he evaded the pressure. Overrated, underrated. being a prospect in the green room at the draft. Overrated. Overrated. You're the best case scenario, you're shaking hands with Roger Goodell as everyone booze you.

Worst case scenario, you're sitting in the green room for two days and looking like a fool and everyone's analyzing every hug you make with your wife and your mom. It's like, dude, overrated as hell. I would not be there. Joe Thomas had it right. Now that they get all of the cameras in people's houses,

like frankly, I think here's a take. you go to the green room on draft night. You don't love your family. I like that. Now we're cooking. Now we're cooking. Showcase the home life. Little moment on the couch with all of your loved ones.

Everyone's sitting around enjoying that moment with you. What if your parents didn't decorate their house nicely and you're embarrassed? You shouldn't be embarrassed for it. That's where you come from. That's why Aaron Rogers is in the green room. You go to the green room because you hate your family. I go back to the CD-Land moment with the two phones. You know, you saw him and it's now.

piece. I feel like that's one of the better draft day moments ever. Rogers knew he was going to slip in the draft. He's like, I'd rather be there than in my family. I want to feel it. I want to feel the spite in the green room. Underrated, and also the NFL needs to get on this

for content, micing up the families in the green room and doing a reality show based on maybe on Bravo TV. There was a, there was a 2004 draft. I don't know what it was. It was a retrospective by NFL films. And they had like everyone was mic'd up. It was Ben Rothsberger.

Eli was that draft. And Rathusberger was at the table with his agent Lee Steinberg when Philip Rivers gets drafted. And Lee Steinberg starts going, can you believe that Philip Rivers went forth and just start talking mad shit about Philip Rivers? I want to hear the rest of that sentence. I want to know how he finished that sentence. And I want to know how Ben Rothesberger responded to because Ben Rothertner was about to respond. Was he about to talk shit about Philip Rivers? I want to know this.

Underrated making up Lee Steinberg. Yeah, if you don't mic up, if you don't mic up the family and friends, you're scared to compete. It's another scared to compete situation. I want everyone mic'd up. I want everything on the table. All right. Last nugget. Another situation in which I think I would have enjoyed some miced up moments.

So the commanders, last night, I believe, were recording this on Wednesday, so this would have been Tuesday. They are currently holding a bunch of their top 30 visits with prospects before the draft. And they're doing it en masse. So quite often, especially with the top guys, you know, guy'll fly in and maybe there's a couple going on at the same time. But you schedule a couple different dinners and executives from the team, decision makers, depending on who's visiting, right? Like if it's a top quarterback, your owner's probably going to the dinner.

If it's a defensive line prospect, maybe it's just coaches and some people from the front office. But the commanders are going a different. route this year, it seems. According to Albert Breer, they have had basically everyone in at the same time. And the other night, they took a bunch of prospects to top golf for a mixer. That includes Drake May, Jane Daniels, Michael Pennex, J.G. McCarthy. They're just all at top golf with the commanders being like, ah, think they're going to pick you? I don't know. We'll see. You want to go to Washington. Austin, how do you feel about, how do you feel about a prospect mixer? So I know I said about Washington earlier in the same podcast that they're not overthinking

anything, they're underthinking. This, this is changing my mind. This is a zig to the NFL Zag. It's a cost-saving move. Why did I know you would love this? It's a cost-saving move. Top golf, not the nicest dinner in your city, like Cincinnati always brings them to Jeff Rubies, But like top golf, $25 a head, okay? You're making waves there. Then, so you have this piece of the cost saving. Then you're also putting him in a situation. You're putting them in a situation to literally compete against each other.

I kind of like it. I think it's kind of sick. I want to know who won Top Gold. Yeah, I do too. Who's not that reporting? Wicker sham? Yes, Seth. I want to know who won top.

Where's your sources now? I wouldn't be surprised if one of those. four quarterbacks. Just like, actually, I don't want to swing and maybe bowed out of it. I want to know the details of that. Where were the mics? All in all, I think this is a fun thing to talk about. I don't know necessarily what it's going to do about who they're drafting.

I think it's a cool Zegno. Rather than see them in a one-on-one situation where the agents prepped them for everything, blah, blah, blah. I want to see these guys literally on four whiteboards back to back. And I'm just going to be like, all right, call a play. And you just literally, I want to see these guys right next to each other. Why not? Literally, why not?

I thought they overbooked. I thought this was a classic, like, Fred Flintstone. two dates at once situation where Adam Peters is like pretending he's changing outfits and going back and forth between the two prospects. I feel like it's

and Austin brought this up last week with Nick Siriani about the Papa Shot basketball or whatever and now he's bringing up the Top Golf like this is over thinking you're getting bad information, too much information like you're going to draft Jaydon Daniels because he beat Drake May at Topgolf that's worse than the homeless guy that told the Browns to draft

John Maenzel. Stop, stop, stop. You're not going to draft him because he beat whatever at Top Golf. It's more about a new opportunity to see them in a different light. You've seen them in one-on-one situations probably a hundred times at the combine, at their pro day, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me see these guys back to back to back to back. That's a fair thing to say. These guys don't throw at the combine anymore. They all do individualized pro days. Agents are like prepping them with every answer. They sound like wind up toys at a toy story. Get them in a room where they don't know what's going to happen. And I think you can maybe see some real shit. what if they're just sure they're taking jaden Daniels

and they don't want to waste their time they're just like we know what we're doing I know we get 30 of these but like let's just let's just get it over with I kind of like it let's just wrap it up let's just wrap it I kind of like it too I like it's a good thing I like it too all right let's take a quick break we'll come back we'll do our big questions before the draft welcome back to dual threat as promised

Stephen Austin and I had a little conversation decided on six questions that feel pressing a week ahead of the draft that we're interested in seeing what takes place next week. Let's get started. The first one I'll pitch to you guys. I'm just going to throw these out there and then we can talk about each one of them. Does a veteran wide receiver get dealt on draft night or I suppose in the immediate lead-up? And I think this came up because first of all, there's been some questions about potential wide receiver movement all this off season.

You know, T. Higgins for a while seemed like a potential trade candidate after he got tagged, although he said a few days ago that he anticipates playing for Cincinnati this year, playing on the tag for the Bengals this season. That said, over the weekend, we had a classic Instagram unfollow situation from Brandon Ayuk of the San Francisco 49ers. I was heading into his fifth season on the rookie deal. hasn't been extended. Possibility of her franchise tag next year.

Possibility to hit free agency. Also possibility to get traded. His agent denied that he's interested in a trade. But Stephen, I mean, where are you on paying attention to social media unfollows from players? I mean, honestly, a weak move by IU, especially with the agent following it up with, oh, no, we don't want, it's not a trade request. Like, now it's weak. Now, the move loses all of its power. So I really don't like that.

I think Higgins does have a formal request in for a trade, but that seems less likely to me. But I do think IUC ends up getting, could end up getting dealt. Just because the 49ers have so many contracts coming up that they have to deal with. They have to pay Debo Samuel 2. And obviously there's the Purdy question about how you pay him. That decision comes next year. They don't have any time to kind of, you know, drag their feet on that. So I think they have to make a decision on IU.

offseason. And if you look at their salary cap and the roster and how it's constructed and you know what Kyle Shanahan brings to the table in terms of scheming guys open, the logical conclusion is IUC is the odd man out here. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I would try to hold this infrastructure together as long as possible on offense with these stars. But I do think like when it comes down to dollars and cents, like this is the move that they might have to make. Whereas Higgins, I could see the Bengals doing the, oh yeah, we only got one year left with them. We know that we're not going to pay him. We're too cheap to pay him or we just don't have enough money to go around to pay him.

Let's just try to win a Super Bowl with this last year with him. I see that happening. I don't see him playing for another team. And he's so integral to that team and how they play on offense that I don't even think you can run the same team without him. Whereas the 49ers, I think, can, you can't substitute for a player like Iy because it's so good, but I do think you can work around his absence. I wouldn't rule out either. But I agree with you that Iyuk seems like the more likely one,

just because, as you said, the 49ers are a year away from having to spend some form of resources in a big way on quarterback, whether that's, you know, money on someone like Purdy or a free agent or picks if they go that route in the draft or via trade. Things are getting expensive quickly there. It is going to be hard for them to keep both Debo and IUC. And it seems like if they were going to do a big extension, they probably would have done it already. franchise tag is still a possibility he seems like the more more likely one and that's not really about the unfollow, it's just sort of about

the roster situation Austin where are you on possible receiver trades overrated underrated unfollowing the team you play for on it social media is overrated. We gotta stop. We gotta stop. It's horrible. It's horrible. It's like the worst way to handle

any you should do. It's like so it's so soft is what it is it's the definition of soft They're like, oh, I'm going to do this. What you've got to do is follow another team. Follow other teams. That's what I'm saying. Do something else because it's very soft because you're literally just banking on one of the football aggregator Twitter.

You'd be like, oh, hey, how are you going to follow that? I said, come on, man. Come on. If JPA football is doing your bidding, you lost. Okay, that's not going to work. It's not going to work if you're doing that. You think the agent? The other thing I'll say is, JPA?

You think that's an agent league? Or whatever the hell is JLA? I don't know. Check out. Check out IUC follows. Wink, wink. And then JPA's like, well, I got a scoop.

I think that the reason I think one, obviously T said, I think I'm going to play from Cincinnati Bengals recently. I think that maybe puts him more in the case of him staying with Cincinnati. I also think his values lower. I think he's more of a second that gets flipped on like day two, if you are trading T. Higgins versus Brandi-Niuk, I think is going to, if he is dealt Garner at first. And I look at the back end of the first round,

AFC to NFC trade, something that I think would light me on fire draft night, Bill's flipping 28 for Brand and Iuke. I don't know if they do it. I don't know if they do it, the Niners being that they do it, because I'm on Ruiz's side in that, like, I would try and I would try and so hard

to figure out how to keep Brandiuk on my football team. He's good. I really like Ranaiuk. I think he's one of, like, the rising stars in the receiver position and something that he brings something to the table. It's not redundant in the offense, right? Like, Debo brings a totally different flavor

to what Iyuk can do, specifically at the intermediate deep levels of the field. Like, I think they have to try to keep IU, But if they can't and they want to do something for content, 28 for IUK for the bills would be haughty-toddy. I'd be all over it. I think that'd be a really fun, really fun draft night story. I think I'm all, I think it'll be exciting.

I don't know. I think Iyuk's more likely to be dealt than T. I don't think the Niners should look to trade him. But if they are, the bills should be on the phones now, literally on the phones right now, trying to get Brandiou. I do wonder if there's some scars left over for the 49ers after the de Forest Buckner trade, which did not work out. They tried to flip the Forrest Buckner rather than paying him for a pick.

They replaced him with like a direct replacement, Javon Kinlaw, didn't work. They tried to decide Javon Hargrave to fix up the interior of the line. That didn't work last year either. And like it's been three years and they haven't been able to replace DeForest Buckner with a first round pick. So I wonder if like someone calls up and goes, hey, I'll give you a first round pick for I UK. If they're like, we've done this before. We've been down that road and it didn't lead to a good place. Can I enter another name into this conversation?

See, here. Devante Adams? No, not going to happen. Antonio Pierce is locking that down. Antonio Pierce cares more about the locker room than any win we're going to get this year. We're being, I'm a Raiders fan. But there's no way. No wins just five.

There's no way. There's no way. There's no way. I just can't get on board. I can't get on board. I feel like Pierce is just too like common sense pill. If that makes sense. He's like, oh yeah, Jason Daniels, he won the Heisman.

Yeah, we were drafted him. Oh, JJ McCarthy won the national championship. Yeah, he drafted. like, no, we're not getting rid of Devante Adams. He's our best player. I don't care if it makes sense cap-wise. And I still think that we're still trying to understand what the power dynamic between Antonio Pierce and the general manager,

Tom Telesco is. I do think that Pierce has some control on like, I want to keep these guys. Like, keep these guys. I'm not saying he has control on who they're drafting. I think maybe Telesco tips the scales there. But like in terms of the guys he has now, he's like, I want these guys. I want them to stay here with like Max Crosby, Devante Adams, Nate Hobbs, Jack Jones, like some of these guys that he does.

like and feel like there are a part of the legitimate locker room culture. And I still think I stand by that quote where he's like, I am the guardian at the gate. No one is entering this locker room that is a cancer. We are keeping this locker room all vibes. I think Devonti Adams is a key, key, key piece of that. I don't think he gets moved. More likely that he gets moved at the deadline when the Raiders start out like one in six, one and seven. All right. Moving on to our next question. It's who is the NFL's QB2? Stephen, I'll start with you. And I'm curious how you're thinking about this question in terms of are we asking who the commanders are going to draft, or are we asking league-wide who's the favorite of the non-Kaleb Williams's in this draft?

I'm asking about league-wide consensus because I feel like there are three options. And the third one just popped up recently. That's J.J. McCarthy, which came out of nowhere for me. But I do think there's a legitimate debate between Jaden Daniels and Drake May. And it feels like people on the media side of things, at least like, like, track Twitter and the film watchers, like seem to think there's a wide gap between May and Daniels, whereas it really feels like the league prefers Jaden Daniels.

And I'm not sure what is influencing that, but just based on hearing quotes from anonymous scouts and executives, it doesn't even seem like a debate between them. And then when you read like the insider mocks, everyone has Daniels going to Washington. And it sounds like a foregone conclusion already. So I think it's... And so that is making you think that,

that was what I was going to ask is, do you feel like some of that, it just feels that way because we're expecting Jaden Daniels to go second, which is actually the first version of it, right? Is Jaden Daniels is probably QB2.

They'll say he's QB1, but like QB2 for the commander is. And because of that, there's enough conversation about him being worthy of that, that it's making him seem like. he's he's the league-wide QB2. I gotta say, I think Drake May is.

I just think there are too many teams that are more interested in that like prototypical size measurables guy and like the idea that, oh, we can fix them, we can develop and we can work on some of the tendencies and the decision-making. I think my impression is that league-wide, if we were to do like a randomizer or something, that Drake may would end up,

the sort of league-wide QV-2 and that the commanders are an outlier, but an important outlier, of course, because they have the second pick. Austin, where are you on this? I do think that the league consensus, if you pulled every GM in the league or every, you know, primary stakeholder in the decision-making process for rosters, I think the consensus, the average would be Drake-May QB-2. I think the reason we're having this conversation is Washington, classic overthinker, underthinkers, bringing everyone to talk golf, is picking second, so now we're kind of second-guessing it. When you look at how Drake May has been talked about over the last month where like like and that to me doesn't that to me does not work like

what's happening is jaden daniels is Washington's favorite if Caleb Williams is off the board and now we're kind of like act because he's the QB2 and fandal odds two days ago we're like plus 150 plus 175 that drake may would be selected now it's plus 200 and and jaden Daniels is my same every single day we get closer it's going more and more likely that Washington is like zeroing in on jaden Daniels i think Washington likes him over may for, I don't know why. I mean, we've had these conversations how many times. I don't really understand why you like Jayden Daniels over Drake May,

outside of the fact that he is a better athlete and he's a better runner with the football. And like people are making the RG3 comparisons, which I think is insane. Jayden Daniels does not have RD3's arm. There's a lot of differences there. People are making Lamar Jackson comparisons, which is even more insane. Like, they're trying to talk. Here's the difference. You're trying to talk yourself into Jaden Daniels where other people are trying to talk themselves out of Drake May.

I think that oftentimes the people, the person that you're trying to, talking yourself out of might be the better guy, right? Like, might be, like, if you're actively looking for weaknesses versus Daniels, you're trying to, like, hide them and tell him that he's good, I don't know, man. I, I prefer May over Daniels. I think a lot of people do. The media consensus in terms of, like, draft evaluators prefer May over Daniels. What Washington ultimately does is TVD. We'll see. The only reason I don't think, like, May is clearly above Daniels on, like the league-wide board, I guess, that doesn't exist, is that we haven't heard any chatter about

May being the first pick overall. And I think if you could buy yourself into May hitting his ceiling, I think that would be a conversation that teams were having. We would hear grumblings about whom the bears might be considering Drake May because I do think like if he hits a ceiling and Caleb hits a ceiling, the gap between them is not that big. But I get what you're saying.

Caleb's four is so much higher. I just think that's a fair take. That's a great way of explaining. But I don't, I don't know that I agree that that necessarily is a signal, just because I think Chicago has been so locked in for Caleb for a while, and everybody knows it, and they're not hiding it. And because of that, it's almost like it's just sort of off the board.

So people aren't thinking in that way. And because of that, I don't know that, I don't know that we ever would have gone there. I don't know that the conversation ever would have naturally gone there. And I don't know if people around the league are even really thinking in those contexts, just because there's no, you know, nobody's talking about is there going to be some other team that might offer a crazy ransom to try to go up to number one or whatever? It's just like the bears are taking Caleb Williams. Yeah, I just think, but I think that would have happened before, you know, Justin Fields' situation got sorted out.

I think once Justin Fields got straight at everybody, it was, it was over. It was like, oh, yeah, Caleb Williams, number one, no matter what. Fair, fair, fair. All right. This is maybe in some ways somewhat related. Third question. Will there be a surprise quarterback team? So team that we're not necessarily talking about as approaching this draft with the clear intention of trying it to add a passer in the first round, but who might surprise people.

So clear quarterback teams, that doesn't mean that they're 100% going to draft a quarterback, but teams that I think are very much thinking quarterback. right now would be the bears, the commanders, the Patriots, and then the Vikings. And I would say the Broncos is not that I'm sure they're going to do it, but I feel like they're involved in a lot of the trade potentials. Anybody else who feels like they wouldn't count as a surprise that I'm missing, to me, it's those five. I would say the Raiders and the Saints even.

I'll give you a Raiders. I'll give you Raiders. Saints to me feels. like they're almost locked on a lot of than basically every mile. They're just a team that needs a quarterback in the long run. That's the only reason I'm throwing them out there. Well, so maybe, I mean,

maybe that does that mean that there are a potential surprise quarterback team? Yeah, and they're not going to take one in the first round. So, yeah. No, I think the team that you guys didn't mention that I'm surprised is the Giants. I feel like the Giants are this, Peter Schrager had his mock draft come out

recently where they traded up to go get J.J. McCarthy, I think at 4 overall. To me, if they do that, I know that there's been like those rumors have become roars and that like the Giants are a student quarterback. I think it was Rappaport or Schaefter who said recently all the signs point to that they are considering quarterback at six or maybe making the move. Maybe they aren't.

That doesn't make them a surprise team then. If like national reporters are talking about them taking the quarterback. I think they count. But I do think that. Yeah. Yeah. I would be surprised. I would be surprised.

Right. I think that day ball I don't think is the most secure in terms of his position as the head coach, even after winning coach of the year, which has become a fairy. Trial award because you just give it to the guy you didn't expect to be good. But the, Daveo, I don't think, wants to bet this year on a new guy, especially the QB3 or QB4,

maybe even the QB5 in this class. I think they much rather, with Daniels, or with Daniel Jones coming back, they much rather take that swing and try and squeak out like a late seventh seed birth rather than like, okay, we're going to go trade up for J.J. McCarthy and pray.

That I don't know necessarily, that would be a surprise. I guess coming back to it, I think that would be surprised if the Giants make a move up or stay at six and grab a quarterback. Yeah, but that's just for JJ. I think them taking a quarterback. Like, if Drake may falls to like four, they would, and they trade up and get him, I would not be shocked at all.

And, like, I think your point is a valid one, like about Davey. And, like, he needs to win this year, especially with the guy we just talked about in the first segment lurking around, Bill Belichick with ties to that organization. And Bill Beale's, Belichick reveres that organization. I don't know if you've ever seen him, like, in the facility. Like, the dude was almost brought to tears just looking at like Lawrence Taylor pictures. So Brian Dayball better win. may I introduce another possibility

if the New York Jets take a quarterback Oh please That would be a massive surprise Draft Jordan Love again Even though it's illegal Disraft again, it would be great Oh man That would be a surprise

But it's not It's on the one hand I like it Right like they're so clearly in win now mode On the other hand They're very tent Wouldn't take that much and they don't know who's playing quarterback in two years and three years.

They're not set there. They don't know who's playing quarterback this year. Every day is a new Aaron Rogers conspiracy theory. Like by the time we get to the season, this guy, it might be over. Like he might have like, you might question the league itself. I don't know. I don't know. I like it as a surprise.

I think the only like the only caveat I'm like feeling, throw Rogers out for a second. I know that's hard. Throw Rogers out. do does Jets ownership want to give Douglas and Sala another swing of the bat on a quarterback? I don't know if they do. Like it's like, hey, you guys drafted Zach Wilson number two overall. Oh, who do you want to take a 10?

We're good. Thanks, man. You guys had this chance. Well, I'm out. Well, but flip that around. If you're Joe Douglas and the seat's already feeling pretty warm, right? You don't really survive a Zach Wilson in the NFL. True, true, true.

Isn't a kind of effective Hail Mary, if you're worried about losing the job in a year or less, isn't it kind of effective Hail Mary, get another young guy in there? Yes, it's sink or swim. If he doesn't work, you're gone. But you're sort of gone anyway. And you can at least buy some time.

You can say, like, well, let's see. That's a dare car, that's a dare car throw it away on fourth down Hill Mary. Like, that's not going to work. That exposes the plot, doesn't it? It's like a third quarterback. Like, you're done. Like, you've had too many swings.

The plot is pretty exposed. But I do think it gets interesting. Like, I had problems finding a surprise team, but I think like, like in round one, but in round two, I think there's a lot of intrigue with that, where there are a lot of surprise QB teams could pop up. Like, I think the Jets could draft, like, if a Bo Nix or Michael Pennix drops to the second round. I think we got to start asking about the dolphins. We got to start asking about the Seahawks.

We've got to start asking about all these teams. So I think that's where the intrigue is. I don't really necessarily think a team is going to make a surprise move for quarterback in the first round, though. What I will say about the Jets is I don't think they need to be in Hail Mary. Right? You need to score. You need to win 10 games this year.

Win 11. And you're probably safe. Like, Salah might be safe. Douglas might be safe. Make the playoffs, win a playoff game. That's your Hail Mary. If you are going to throw Helmary, unplug Aaron Rogers' internet connection. Try and find a way to cut that cord.

If that's, that's higher Tom Cruise from Mission Impossible to get in there, make a little snip, and then call it. Do not be the hellmower. introduce Tom Cruise. That is the wrong person for this situation. Yeah, Miles Teller was too much. You can't survive Tom Cruise. True, true.

You enter a Tom Cruise into this. You know what this team needs, Scientology. Aaron Rogers met Miles Keller. And he was like, yeah, I'm sold. I'm buying everything you're putting down Miles. I'm just saying, Austin, you call yourself pro content. I mean, this is the most pro content move of all time. for me content always wins.

And a little Tom Cruise mix in for Mission Impossible Part 7 that's going to save movies, can't wait. I literally can't wait. Can I add a wrinkle? This might be a little too Belichickie enough me, but I'm trying to add a wrinkle to this question. Do we think that there's a surprise slide with the quarterbacks? Everyone's talking, because every year there's a surprise slide, I feel like.

But everyone's like, QBs could go one, two, three, four, five. Just real quickly, do we think that like there's a chance that, Mays on the board at nine or like Daniels on the board at 13 like and the Raiders are able to land in without a trade up like I know that maybe it's unlikely but I feel like every single year where like quarterbacks could go with the first five picks and then we get to a point where like one of these guys slides to the middle of the first round I don't know like what do you think Ruiz. I could see JJ sliding because I do think a lot of this this draft draft buzz is based on like ideas of what a quarterback is supposed to be and I could see teams like I don't know I think they could just be drumming up hype like it makes sense to drum up hype for a quarterback. even if you're not in the quarterback market, it makes sense to bring people in to try, like the Giants brain and JJ McCarthy, maybe that's just a ploy for them to be able to flip their pick for something.

I don't know. So I wouldn't be surprised if like multiple quarterbacks slide, especially if you consider like Pennix, a first round prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if he's there on day two. Does that, yeah, if that counts as a slide, I think it seems pretty likely that Nixon Pennix could end up being second rounders.

If Jay J.J. McCarthy. Go ahead. If J.J. McCarthy slides outside the top. 10, I'm going to get a tattoo on my chest that says stop buying the smoke. Because we did this last year and I didn't do it with Will Levis stop. There were conversations at some point in the pre-draft cycle that he could go to. And he fell out of the first round. Like, if this happens with JJ McCarthy on my chest, I'll get it.

A full tap. Just don't buy the smoke. You know, I don't know, maybe not a full tat, but whatever it has to be. Whatever has to be. I look forward to that. All right. Next question. pertains to the Los Angeles Rams

picking at 19 with their first first round selection since 2016 what are the Rams going to do with this pick? This is historic. Austin, you want to take this one first? This is tough, right? Because I mean,

obviously when you're mocking at 19 it can go a lot of different ways. I do think that they've invested in the trenches. They've invested in free agency, just trying to like fill some of these holes. Something that they've shown with not having a first round pick is this ability to develop day two and day three guys like Pooka Nakua and and Byron. Like they've had a lot of success with the limited shots they've had. And I think for this first round pick, I honestly don't see any other thing besides like best player available. Like they could go corner. I think like they

could be even after adding Jadavius White, like they could still be a team that like adds depth at corner one of these younger guys. It's a cornerback class where no one really knows who the CB1 is. Is it Cooper de Gene out of Iowa? Is it Quinnian Mitchell, Toledo, Terry Ann Arnold, Alabama, Koola McKinstree. I could see them being a corner team. I also could see them, obviously, with Aaron Donald Gahn, and this defensive line being desperate for some type of, like, phenom pass rushing talent.

I think this could be a sneaky Johnny Newton team out of Illinois or maybe a Byron Murphy team, the two defensive tackles that I think ultimately do go in the first round of April's drafts. And you don't tell Newton to his face that you're replacing Aaron Donald. You say, you're just coming in and we're excited to have you. Don't give that guy that expectation. But that defensive line, I think is where they need the most help, obviously with Donald leaving. I think they could be, if Byron Murphy is still there on the board, I think there's a conversation that he might go higher than 19. If Murphy's off the board, I think they could be a Newton team. I like both those picks of them. But also, go corner, go best player available. They are a team that I trust the

process. I trust the process of who they're going to bring in, who they can develop, and how they can bring them in. So, Peter Schrager, close friend of Sean McVey, did a mock draft this week and said as part of it that as something of a guarantee is how he phrased it. If the Rams do not trade back, you better believe Sean McVeigh's first ever first round selection will be an offensive player. Wow. which is interesting. It's interesting for a couple of reasons. Now, on the one hand, totally get it, right?

Sean McVey, offensive guru, of course he would want to add a blue chipper. That said, I think it's a little bit interesting because picking it 19 in this draft, and we're going to talk about this a little bit more in a bit, probably a deeper place to be on the defensive side and the offensive side. There's going to be a ton of offensive players taken in this first round.

And therefore, if you're in that back half, you can, you've got a shot at one of the best defensive prospects in this, this draft. Whereas if you're picking on the offensive side of the ball, you know, maybe someone, maybe someone drops. Maybe they're the Brock Bowers team, right? Maybe he falls and we end up saying, oh, how exciting. I trust Sean McVeigh to figure out what to do with whatever Brock Bowers' position fit is going to be in the NFL. That said, and Stephen, I know you brought this up in one of our pre-show calls. This is a team that just lost one of the iconic defensive players in football history.

And at that 19 slot, I get it. It's an offensive-minded head coach. It's an offensive-minded team. But I think it's interesting that the Rams are apparently writing off going for defense at 19. Steven, what do you think about this? Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they are a little naive about replacing Aaron Donald, just because if you're Shaw McVey, it would be so easy to get used to having that dude in the middle and just kind of like turning off your brain when it comes to addressing that part of the team.

So I wouldn't be surprised if McVe is like disregarding the fact that they lost them and being like, we need to build this offense. Because like look around the league and look at the best teams outside of Kansas City, of course, which I don't think like you can take any lessons from them because they have Patrick Mahomes. but like these these teams now the best teams are built with weapons on offense like it's got to be hard for shot mcbay to watch what's happening in san francisco and not be like i wish i could do what kyle can do because he has all these dudes and we've seen him kind of get you know skipped in line by kyle like he was in on christian mcalfrey he was in on matthew stafford he's been trying to get these guys so i would

not be surprised if there's like a blue chip prospect in his mind and shot mcbe's mind that's still there on the offensive side of the ball like a wide receiver for instance or i don't think he would take a running back at this point, but obviously, like, on day two, I think you would take a shot at it because you need those weapons. Like, just being the scheme genius isn't enough anymore because there's plenty of those around the league. Mike McDaniel is a scheme genius. Kyle Shannon's a scheme genius, and those dudes have all pro talent all around their offense. The Rams don't end. And Cooper Cup, he might have lost his step. I mean, I'm not, he's been injured a ton and that could be slowing him down, but a little trail off there at the end of the year. I think that. I think that.

to read into the Schrager stuff too is maybe they are a prime tradeback team and maybe McVeigh right now on his board has X blue chip offensive players that if they fall to 19 sprinting the damn thing in my opinion is there's a really good chance that those guys aren't there right

80 Mitchell might be there at 19 project Amarius Mims tackle love them project Tyler Guyton the guy Schrager mocked to the Rams project like this is if Brock Bowers is there at 19 I love it but there's a good chance that the polished receivers the blue chip type of receivers are gone.

Brock Bowers is gone. The top end offensive linemen that you want to start right away are going to be on the interior, right? Like, are they a Graham Barton team? But like they just invested in the interior. Are they a Jackson-Parris-Johnson team? They just invested in the interior. For me, if that, now I'm, I think the trade comments, A-1,

like, if those blue-chip guys aren't there and the guy that McVeigh really wants, I think they're a trade-back team. And I think, again, to bring up the bills, maybe the bills are calling, right? Bills are calling a job up to go get a receiver or whatever. Like, that to me makes sense. So I think McBae probably has four or five guys in his mind that if they're there at 19

offensively, I'm taking them. If I have to take a defensive guy, trade back. I'll pick up more picks here later. Yeah, I think that training back makes the most sense, especially with what you said. Like, their recent history is hitting on day two and day three picks. I don't think they're uncomfortable drafting. Might as well lean into that edge too, right? It's like, okay, I don't need these first round picks.

I can gather more stuff. And giving, like this, I hadn't thought about this, but Brock Bowers and a Sean McBey offense. Like, now I need that to happen. Now I want them to trade up and go get it. They're the most fun Brock Bowers team. I don't think it's happening in 19, but like, that would be sick. It would be so much fun. If you put him in San Francisco's offense,

then Brockford's winning the Super Bowl. Other benefit of trading back, hey on the draft house. I don't know if they're doing it this year. True. True. Rams always have a good time on draft night. I think they've gotten used to

just be able to have a party on that one. Overrated and underrated having a draft house. Depends on if you have a first round pick. I think it might be overrated. If the cameras are coming in, it's overrated. If the cameras are off and it's just a whole vibe, maybe underrated. Even if the cameras are... I think it seems fun.

See, I disagree. Definitely if one out of 32 teams is doing this and it seems like a good time, underrated. Well said. That's a good idea. That's a good point. But if you're bringing work to a vacation setting, it kind of ruins the vacation setting. That's all I'm saying. Nah, I like working on a vacation.

Oh. Which is disgusting. I know, I know. One of my favorite things is on a vacation, getting ahead at work at a coffee shop. Oh, just incredible. I'm viscerally upset right now. Disgusting about you. My girlfriend has the same reaction.

She's like, I'm going to kill you. Like, I'll literally stab you. But that's where we are. I have nothing to say. I just, I need to move on. We're moving on. I can't handle this. I love vacation. Does any team trade up for a non-quarter whack?

That's our next question. Stephen, I'm still upset with Austin over the vacation thing. So I'm going to ask you to answer this. I'm going to say the Colts. That's going to be my team. And I think the Colts could trade up. I think they need to trade up. I'm tired of Chris Ballard, like being, he's scared to compete. He deserves the lifetime achievement and being scared. Like, make a pick. Make a move. What I was going to say is this would be Chris Ballard sort of putting his neck out.

Right. And he never done. He did it with DeForest Buckner. That's why I think he might have, you know, the dip on his chip to be able to pull this off. Maybe he's like, oh, yeah, I've done it before with him. And I think you do it for a blue chip talent. Like, if there's a receiver on the board, and I don't know how he stacks the receivers, uh, one, Harrison won, Dunezay one. If one of those guys is there, I would make the move. You have a second year quarterback.

Their timelines kind of messed up because the shoulder injury with Anthony Richardson. But like, the move has always been to pair your emerging quarterback with a star receiver. And I think they have a chance to do this. And if you have to give up a couple of Ballard's precious day two picks to do that, okay, do it. What, you can't draft a linebacker out of the Mac now? Make a first round pick, buddy. Yeah, the Colts don't have, it's interesting.

The Colts don't feel like an all-in team. And maybe that's just because that has not been Ballard's M.O. But any other team with a promising young quarterback, I mean, think about, look, obviously Richardson didn't get the chance because of the injury to show all that much last season. But what he did show was promising and think about how we're talking about the Texans right now. And that's obviously a lofty comparison.

I'm not saying that he would have gone on to do what Stroud did. But think about how the Texans have approached this off season. And then the vibe in Indianapolis is just so much more like, well, we'll see what happens and so much more muted. If you think you got a promising young quarterback in there, take advantage of the rookie contract window. Like, it's time to go. Let's move.

I think that's a really good one. I didn't think of that one. I was going to say the Saints just because New Orleans is going to New Orleans. But I like the Colts actually better than that. It's a good pick, Stephen. No, the Colts is a great call. I didn't have that read either. I was thinking Chiefs.

I think Chiefs could be a sneaky move-up team, especially with how deep this offensive tackle class is. I think that, you know, sniffing around 14, 15, 16, which I know would be a significant trade-up, but going up for a non-quarterback, I think that price is going to be discounted in. But, like, I don't like going into the season with Juania Morris as my tackle. Like, I don't. I do think that going up and getting Pautano, Olufoshano out of Penn State, even at Marius Mims, like, go get a guy that has a chance to be a legitimate long time starting tackle for this team, obviously opposite of Orlando Brown Jr. That, to me, I think, makes a ton of sense. You'd have to give up a lot to go up from 32. But they're a team that, you know, you mentioned all in.

I think that they need to continue to double down on protecting Patrick Holmes. And if they're going to continue to just throw receivers to the wind and figure it out, I think offensive line is how they started this whole thing anyway. After they lost to the bucks in that Super Bowl, they go out and add offensive line, right? Adding Joe Tooney and adding these guys, I think looking at the draft, and specifically this year's draft because the tackle class is deep, going up and getting a guy, I think makes a ton of sense. I'm going to throw out a bonus team. We got a desperate Trent Balky with some picks through a road.

That's all I'm going to say. It's like a wounded animal. Don't be surprised if they're drafted in the top 10. A desperate Trent Balky, scary. Scary proposition. I'm a little nervous. I'm a little nervous. Who's a trade-up prospect?

Who's a prospect they could trade up for who's just been like super injured? That's a good question. I was thinking, I wasn't going with the injured thing. I was just going with like the athletic. The A2 lot? That doesn't play football a lot.

And I was thinking, or it doesn't play football all that well, although this is kind of disparaging to him. But I was thinking Malik neighbors. He loves the athlete. Oh, no. Wait, are you out on neighbors? No.

no, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying, I wasn't out on Walker last, whenever they drafted him two years ago. I'm just saying he's like the, you know, the toolsy guy, his game's not polished. That's a, that's a balty special. I can see maybe in that same vein, like Amarius Mims. Amarius Mims makes sense, too. Another guy that hasn't been able to stay on the field, athletic freak, like legitimate, like insanely talented human being. That's another name that kind of makes sense in terms of that mold. I wouldn't hate either of those.

I don't think Bulkie should be in the trade-up business, but like, that would be the worst thing in the world. Maybe not. I don't trust anything he does is the worst thing in the world, actually. So I take that back, it would be. If Bulkie's on the sticks, I'm scared. I'm scared. Well, unfortunately, he's the general manager of the team.

It is. So, all right. Last question. We'll go out on this. we sort of started going here when we were talking about the Rams but the record for the most offensive players taken in a first round is 19 that has happened three times and it seems very possible this draft breaks that record so Austin I'll ask you first I'm going to ask both of you

where does the first defensive player come off the board on night one and who is it? I'd like to like to hope and pray that it's 13 for my Las Vegas Raiders and that they don't make a move up for a quarterback in this class and they play the long game and they invest in either the top cornerback in this class or maybe if Dallas Turner, the edge rush from Alabama Falls. Just go stay put and take the best defensive player on the board. I think there's a very good chance.

I also think the Broncos at 12 are another team that could be, hey, long road ahead, long road ahead before we're competitive. let's just get best player available. Odds are at 12 with how many offensive players are coming off the board. Defense is the move. Maybe it's, again, a Dallas Turner or Terry Ann Arnold or whoever it may be. I think 12.13 is when they really should start thinking about it. Saints are going to force offensive tackle.

They'll probably trade up for it, so I don't see it there. Then it kind of gets into maybe it's Seattle at 16, Jacksonville at 17. But I'd be really shocked if we get through both 12 and 13, Broncos and Raiders, and we don't have a defensive player off the board. So can I ask you a question about this scenario? In your world here, what did the Falcons do? Now, I know that the most commonly mocked player to the Falcons by any person with a pulse is Dallas Turner, I think they could be a tradeback team.

Yeah. A team that, you know, if someone's looking to come up and go get a tackle or come up and maybe get a falling receiver or whatever, I think they're going to be itching to move back just because, I don't know. I think that getting ahead of, you know, the bears there at 9 who are probably going to take receiver, could look at tackle, could look at tight end, getting ahead of the Jets at 10, who are going to be probably looking offense to support Aaron Rogers. If you're a team that's looking to go buy a receiver, go get a tackle, I think the Falcons are going to get some calls.

I'm totally in favor of that. I just wanted to ask because it's going to be really funny when we get to 8. and the Falcons who have been so clearly mocked if they're not a tradeback as going defense, just draft like Adunze or something and add another like top, top offensive prospect to that, that stable of skill position players

and just continue to ignore defense. It's going to be really funny. Not saying anything is going to happen. I'm just saying, you know, content is kidding. It would be very Falcons. I think the team that kind of decides this is, is indirectly the Chargers what they do with their pick.

Do they go offense lineman? Do they go Joe Alt? And I think if they do that, then Tennessee might just be like, fuck it, we're going to take the best defensive prospect left because I do think like Tennessee and all make a lot of sense.

And then if that happens, and Atlanta does trade down, which I agree. I think they're a trade down team. I don't think it makes any sense to stay there if you're drafting a defensive player, especially where you are on the board and how the board falls beyond you.

Because like after you, it's like five straight teams that need offense. And then the Raiders who I don't know what they're doing. So I think it was, it would make the most sense to trade out of that, accrue more picks, just try to put as many guys on that defense as you can possibly can't, because that's going to be the thing.

We know the baseline for the offense with Kirk Cousins. We know the floor, we know the ceiling. We know what it's going to be. If the defense is top five, you can win a Super Bowl with that. If it's not, you can't. That's what it is with Kirk Cousins.

That's how it's been. It could even connect to the last question, too, right? Where, like, Rams are like, F them picks. We're going to move up to eight and go get neighbors or go get a falling a duncee. Like, just like, hey, we're going to go to make a play and go grab an offensive player.

Or Bowers or whatever. I think that those two questions could even be connected. But I do think this is going to help up like the middle of the first round. Like I think those teams that do need defense, like the Jaguars can use defensive players. Seattle can use defensive help. Indianapolis, all these teams can, Cincinnati's defense got bad last year. I don't think anyone realize how like old and bad it got last year.

So I think it's going to benefit those teams the most because I do think we're going to see a run on offense. And I do think Atlanta will trade down. Love it. All right. That's our show. Thank you to Stephen and Austin for lending all their insights once again. We will be back next week to break down the first round of the draft. But in the meantime, Ben and Sheel are going to have you covered on extra point taken. Also want to throw a shout out to the ringer draft show. The draft guy's doing great work on that feed. I know everybody's prepping for next week. So go check that out as well. There's a lot of great info there. Also, all over the website, Danny Kelly's draft guide, a lot of great cover. I know we're getting into sort of crunch time before next week. So lots of stuff that people can check out. Thank you to Stefan Anderson for producing this episode.

Thank you to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal for their additional production supervision. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo for his work on socials. And we'll talk to you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandals offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem. call 1-800 gambler or visit fandle.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 100, 100 next step, or text next step to 533342 in Arizona, 1-888-78-9-777, or visit ccpgagmig.org slash chat in Connecticut, 1-8009 with it in Indiana.

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