The Ringer NFL Show - Biggest Winners During the Offseason

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz open by discussing the news of Randall Cobb reportedly signing with the Jets and then pick which teams were the biggest winners during the offseason. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey, one of the hosts of the Prestige TV podcast. HBO's Barry is back for a fourth and final season. And that means I'll be back recapping the show with co-creator and star Bill Hader to dive deep on the themes, scenes, and major moments in the series. Bill will provide insight into how every episode was made and why it's ending. New Prestige TV Barry recaps will go live every Sunday night when the episode ends. So make sure you're subscribed to the Prestige TV podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to The Ringer NFL show.

Pinciotti. I am here, as always, with Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, how are you doing? I'm doing well. We had a bit of a false start. In the first recording, I asked you how you were doing, but now it just doesn't seem genuine if I asked. So I'm not going to... The false start was my fault. See, I didn't want to name names. I didn't want to point fingers, okay? It's okay. It's all right. That's, you know what?

Accountability is important on this program. And I messed us up. But we are very, very good. excited about this episode. We've got great stuff. We are going to go through some teams with what we thought were the best off seasons. So free agency, draft, any sort of coaching changes, everything that's gone on. In the lost 10 minutes that started our first version of this episode, though, before we got to those lists, we each brought three teams. We started with a conversation about a little news item that popped up this morning, which is that Randall Cobb is joining the Jets.

Adam Schaefter is reporting that former Packers receiver, Aaron Rogers' buddy, is joining him in New York on a one-year deal to join the Jets' wide receiver room. What do you think about this, Stephen? I mean, it's the most telegraph move of the off-season. I mean, you had to have seen it coming. Randall Cobb was a free agent. There were sentimental Instagram posts.

The Jets didn't need a receiver, but that's never mattered. That's never mattered to Aaron Rogers in the past when he forced the trade. There was not a wish list, though. There were no demands. There wasn't a wish list. But I really think it's easy to laugh off this move. And everyone on Twitter, I think, had the same reaction. It was just some form of LOL.

But I honestly think that Randall Cobb is going to get important targets this season. I think Aaron Rogers is going to force feed him important targets on like third down and key games in December. And it may not be the laughing matter that we think it is right now. And there are a lot of malice to feed in that Jets locker room, especially in the receiver room. So I'm interested to see how it all works out and how if there's any sort of tension that is created, whether it's with the coaching staff based on who's getting the snaps or whether it's with the other receivers who are already there, like Jared Wilson, who's coming off in an award-winning rookie season. And it's going to be interesting to see how Rogers kind of navigates that.

That might be his first challenge as the new leader of the Jets. If I endorse the Rogers move. I think if you're the Jets, it makes sense. You know, quarterback is so clearly the missing link of that team. You have a guy who's won two of the last three MVPs, obviously didn't have quite as good of a season last year. Injury might have been a piece of that. I think you make that deal 10 times out of 10.

If I'm worried about it, though, my concerns are this list of three. Number one, he's one and done. He plays one season. Maybe it doesn't go that great. And then he's out of there. And I don't think you need to accomplish that much or have him for that long to make the trade worth it. But if he's not there for two seasons, that one season better. be, I mean, you better be in the conference championship game or something like that.

I don't think it's like Super Bowl or bust or that this was, you know, not worthwhile. But if it's one season, it better be a really, really, really successful one. If it's two and they make the playoffs both years, I think that's a win, even if they don't go very far there. But if it's one, it better be really good. Number two concern is the fact that they might not be able to protect him very well, just given the situation at tackle, which they weren't able to address in the draft. Number three, though, is he just going to throw the ball to his friends again?

And numbers one and two, I think you could sort of see coming the situation at tackle. I think a lot of people thought that they would address in the draft and they were not able to. but number three is the one that's that's starting to come into focus. Rogers is very graciously, he said on Pat McAfee, told him that he will be at more than half of the OTAs, which sure, fine, whatever, man. But it seems, so at least you will have some time to, you know, work with Garrett Wilson and develop that connection.

The Jets have been posting thirst traps of him throwing the ball in slow motion. So hopefully it's okay, but there are, as you said, a lot of mouths to feed in that receiver room. And we've seen this movie before where it's not just like Randall Cobb is long to be his buddy. There will be targets. Yeah. And it's always hard to answer that question with Rogers. I feel like he's like one of the few quarterbacks where we try to like,

I don't know, psychoanalyzed why he's playing the way he's playing. Like last year, at times it looked like he was like a petulant middle school. who was like doing things in protest. Like he would like launch a random go ball that had no chance of being completed. And it seemed like he was just mad at the play calling at that moment. So I don't know. It's tough to see how this,

or to predict how this is going to work out. And it's tough to predict how the receiving room is going to work itself out, how it's going to stack up where the targets are going to go, who's going to play the most snaps. Because it's not just like there are a lot of mouths to be. There are a lot of different types of mouths to be. Like, Mikol Hardman is way different than Alan Luzard, even though both of them are known as deep threats primarily.

Randall Cobb, I don't know where he fits into this. Garrett Wilson is a receiver that could catch the ball all over the place. And then you have Denzel Mims and Corey Davis, who are guys that they made a big investment in and kind of had just cast aside. So I don't know. I don't know what this offense even looks like. I have no idea. What is your answer to what they have to get out of,

out of however many years they have with Rogers to make the trade worth it. Just because, like, winning the Super Bowl and the AFC just seems so hard. There are so many mountains you have to scale, including the Chiefs and the bills in the Jets' own division. I would say just the perception that they're contenders at some point during this Aaron Rogers tenure.

Like, if there's ever a time when they're top five in power rankings and we're talking about whether they can contend for a Super Bowl, I think that's a win. Because they haven't had this with the Jets. in a long time since Rex Ryan, I guess, where there's something to get excited about, something to really get excited about. Even that team with Brandon Marshall and Ryan Fitzpatrick

that won 10 games and lost in the final week to miss the playoffs, that team wasn't like a real contender. I think just because Aaron Rogers around, you can delude yourself into thinking this team as a chance to winning the Super Bowl, even though they probably won't. Well, so I agree except for the fact that, like, it can't be a blip.

It can't be like they get out to a hot stuff. And then in week five, we're like, oh, the Jets, the Jets. And then if they give those fans two interesting seasons, like whole seasons, where it looks like if stuff breaks the right way, they could at least be, okay, maybe we're not going, this is the team to beat for the Super Bowl, but this is a playoff team. This is a team that could make some noise in January. Like, that's a win. They don't have to win the Super Bowl.

the Jets. Do you know what we need? We need the Nix. The Nix, what's happening with the Nix right now? If they can give us that. Like, I don't know if things break right, they got Miami in the second round, the Gardens Rock.

And like, if you can get that, you can recreate that situation, even if we all know it's not going to end in a championship, then it's a positive step for this franchise that has needed a positive step for like a decade now. This is making me sad about the New York Rangers or out of playoffs, even though Aaron Rogers went to one of their games.

he's really been making the rounds. He's been out and about it. It is very fascinating for me as a New York resident to watch Aaron Rogers. I mean, I'm sure he's spent time in New York before, but like watch how he makes the city his own. He dropped a little Instagram post last night where he was like bragging about going to Carbone, which I'm going to get some mileage out of one way or another. Do you know Carbone, Stephen? I did not.

I did not 15 minutes ago, but you explained to me what it is. And it sounds like a very Arabidist type of place. It's just like, it's an Italian restaurant of the West Village that is very, was very, very, very trendy. They have suffered the hardship of losing a Michelin Star this year. So, you know, things might be on the decline. But it was like, however many years ago. And like, even still, it is just the most annoying people on Instagram.

you've ever met would love nothing more than to just regularly be posting photos of they have a famous spicy rickettone, all of vodka, and they have very distinctive, like, rustic Italian plates. And it's just like, if you're clicking through, if you're swiping through stories and you catch one of those, you just sort of know immediately what the person is trying to communicate to you, which is like, I'm so cool. I went to Carbone. I bought fancy pasta. I, by the way, I'm just bitter because I've never been. But whatever. Oh, it comes out.

You've never thrown a football to Randall Cobb and he'd never been to Cardbone. You just wish you were Aaron Rogers. That's true. That's true. I'm two for two. That's all I've got. That's all I've got on Rogers. That's all I've got on New York.

That's all I've got at Carbone. Should we move on to our regularly scheduled programming? Yes, let's do it. All right. So we were going to do three teams each off-season that we have really, really liked. there's still room for a move here and there, but most of the big work is done. Do you want to kick us off, Stephen?

Yeah. My first team, this is the off season I love, was the Dolphins. And it's not necessarily because of the players they brought in. I do like some of the signings. I like the David Long signing. It's a cheap flyer, two years, $11 million deal. I like bringing in Robbie Anderson,

our chosen Anderson, I forgot to change his name. That's just another deep threat that you have to worry about. They have so many. But I really like it because Vic Fangio. And I think that we talked a lot about how unsurious that Dolphins defense was last year, how unsound it was, I think is a better word. One thing you know you're getting out of Vic Fangio is a sound defense.

You're not going to give up explosive plays. You're going to make the offense earn every positive gain. Every four-yard gain on the ground is going to feel like it was earned. I think that's what this team needed. And I have full confidence in Mike McDaniel, figuring out the offense. As long as Tua stays healthy, relatively healthy, but I do like them bringing in Mike White. I thought last year, when they had to change the quarterbacks, they had to go from Tua to Teddy to

to Skiler Thompson. Those are just three different types of quarterbacks, and you saw them try to kind of fit each of those backup quarterbacks into the offense they had crafted for Tua. I think with Mike White, you could just kind of fall back on the classic Shanahan 49er style of offense. and just run it like that until Tua gets back, if he gets hurt, that is. And then getting Jalen Ramsey, I thought, was just in for the price that they paid for him, which wasn't that high, I think was a big win for them.

And I think it really enhances the Vic Fangio system. We saw that in L.A. when Brandon Staley was there running a version of this defense, when he had Jailen Ramsey, how he utilized him. I think there's already a blueprint for Fangio to use Ramsey and get the most out of them. So they didn't take the step you wanted to see them. on offense, but I'm fine with that. I think the offense is going to be fine as long as it stays healthy. But on defense, I think that it's going to be a big difference for this team.

Fangio will make them more sound defensively, but also I'm with you. The Ramsey deal, the contract is really manageable. And all they gave up in the trade was the third round pick and Hunter Long. So I think that was an awesome move. The other thing, so they allowed the six most passing yards of any team last year. A lot of that, I do think, just getting Sanjo in the building, it's going to go a long way.

But I think it's easy. This secondary was disorganized, but it was also really, really hurt. Byron Jones didn't play. Xavier and Howard had injury problems. Nick Needham had injury problems. They obviously didn't have Ramsey. And they were,

and that group where, like, Cater Kohoo was basically the top corner for a lot of the season on this team, was asked to do so much to compensate for just the like chaotic, constant Josh Boyer blitzing situation. So not only do you get more schematically sound under Fangio, the depth chart, when you add Ramsey, they also drafted Cam Smith in the second round,

which was their top pick, plus hopefully some better health. That's a really, really different situation than they were working with last year. So I'm really with you. I had the dolphins on my list as well. for a lot of the same reasons, but then also without a ton to work with, I do think that they still managed

to make this team better. I also think that particularly defensively, you're going to see acquisitions that don't really fall into this offseason, but like Bradley Chubb, right? I think Bradley Chubb is going to make

more of an impact next season. First of all, just with a full year with the team. And then second of all, if that defense is like a little bit less ridiculous, that impact is going to be enhanced for sure. And then just if you look at their depth chart, I think the thing that surprised me the most or that stood out to me the most going through their depth chart

is like it's not a secret to anyone that the dolphins have real star power and some really awesome talent. But they're pretty deep. like they're three deep at running back. They're at least too deep in a way that, you know, you're not upset about at most of the skill positions. I'd forgotten that Chosen Anderson was now on this team, which like, that's not a,

he's not a starter on the Dolphins offense, but that's still good depth, Braxton Barrios. It struck me how, how much talent they have beyond just the names that you know, the names that you think of the starters. Obviously, offensive line still concern.

But I think the schematic changes and then just how much depth and how much talent and ability in that Michael offense that we've seen they have, this is a really, really, really good roster. And a lot of that was built before this offseason because, again, they had not a lot of money in free agency to work with, not a lot of draft capital. But they still managed to turn not a lot of draft capital into another big trade for a star who can be really, really impactful in an area that was a huge weakness last season. Plus, they managed to get Fangio who had quite a few suitors, and I think that's going to make a

huge, huge difference for them. So I have the dolphins, too. I wonder if we will continue to be in sync. Do you have anything more on Miami before we keep going? No, I think I would just add, like in addition to the talent, you pair great talent with great coaching, and I think you get something that's bigger than the sum of its parts. I think there's a very good chance this team is the best team in the AFC East.

Again, it comes back to Tua, and maybe I am a little upset. They didn't go after a better number two option than Mike White, although I think he's a fine backup. Like them going after Lamar Jackson would have been cool, although they didn't have the resources. But I think they're one of the teams that were in the playoffs,

didn't have, there were a lot of teams that were in the playoffs that didn't have a lot of resources in the off season and that didn't get better. This is one of the few teams that really found a way to meaningfully get better. So that's why they're on my list. I also, like, we'll, if Mike White, first of all, hopefully Mike White doesn't have to play. Second of all, if he does,

I think you're already in a much better situation than Skyler Thompson. And third, like, to your point, he will just slide into that Shanahan style offense really, really easily. We saw them last year do it a little bit differently with Tua, but they do have, like, they also added Jeff Wilson to the running back room last year.

And Devon A. Chain, in the draft, that running back's room is really, really deep. And we haven't always seen, just because of the talent of their receiving core, we haven't always seen Mike McDaniel's offense there lean on the run game in the way that I think I thought that they would when he got there. And if you end up having to play Mike White, they'll just probably do that. And it's not ideal just because if you have Tyree Kill and you have Jalen Waddle, you know, I don't,

I don't, Shanahan style or not, I don't care who's in your running back room, you want to focus on those impact receivers. But if they need to, it's pretty clear to me what this offense could look like which when it was this toggle between Teddy and Skyler Thompson

and they didn't have some of the running backs that was a little bit less clear so I agree with you other than you know quarterback is the variable here is just what's that going to look like and is two are going to be able to stay healthy but I do think that the backup situation

even though like I like Teddy but there was just so much chaos there last year and obviously he didn't stay healthy. So I think they are in a much better situation there as well. All right, we'll get to the next team. But before we're going to take a quick break. All right, I'm going to go with, I think this team is on everybody's list, but Philadelphia Eagles.

I thought they were going to have. Okay. Steven, if we've done like all of the same teams, this is going to be a disaster fun. We might have. We might have. No, I know for a fact you don't have my next winner. I know for a fact you don't have my next winner. Okay.

All right. But Philadelphia, another team that went into the offseason with without a lot of resources, without a lot of cap space, they had some draft capital, but a long list of free agents and a long list of key contributors that didn't not have a contract this year. And they basically retained everybody. They lost, they lose, T.J. Edwards. They bring back Fletcher Cox, who was talking about retirement. They bring back Jason Kelsey, he was talking about retirement. I think they got more upside in the running back room now.

I think the receiver room is better. Jalen Hertz is going to take a step forward and they got his contract done. They got so much accomplished this offseason when it looked like this was going to be a struggle just to keep the team that lost the Super Bowl together. I think not only did they keep it together, they got better. I think they're a better team now than they were the Saturday before the Super Bowl against the Chiefs. I'm totally with you. I think they got better. and managed to set themselves up pretty well

for pieces of their future plans that seemed like question marks the day after the Super Bowl. Fletcher Cox is 32 years old. All right, draft Jalen Carter. Darius Lay, great that you're able to keep him. Also 32 years old. You know, I don't want to overstate the certainty anyone should have about like what future

Keeley Ringo has on that team, but you're still drafting to replace those old guys who we were like, all right, it's great for 2023 that they're still in the building, but what's going to happen down the line? Then, look, they're paying Jalen Hertz. Good money, but that is the going rate for a starting quarterback. The cost certainty on the Hertz deal for the next five years,

I think is a huge win, as is the fact that they did his before everyone else is. I mean, I think that's probably how this was always going to pan out. You tend to see the deals come in order, of which players have the least to the most leverage. And if that's the case, then I think we're going to see Herbert next and then we're going to see Burrow be the last one to go. But the fact that he got, you know, weird stuff can happen, right?

And there are different negotiations and people don't have perfect information about what's going on in other places. And there's a world where if, you know, if Lamar got done before Hertz, maybe Hertz is making more money. So getting in early there never hurts. They know what they're paying him going forward. That team is smart about the cap. They can plan around that.

They can plan for how they're going to sort of restock the cupboard when those old guys and, you know, you certainly add in Kelsey to that, do move on. And a team that, like, I know the way that I felt about the Eagles at the, after the Super Bowl was, okay. they've still got all that talent on offense, but this is tough. This was a really good opportunity.

They didn't win the game, and there are big questions that they're going to have to figure out. They've crossed off like three or four of those just really, really simply. Also, by the way, one of the best run games, if not the best run game in the NFL,

got better between the Super Bowl and now, and it's coming at a cost. that is like collectively for the entire running back room equal to what the Lions are paying David Montgomery for one year. Right, yeah. And that's such a funny like comparison to make because you heard Brad Holmes justify the pick of Jemir Gibbs by talking about this is a player that we think is going to help us win.

But then they trade away D'Andre Swift to a team that knows how to win. Like the Eagles know how to win, and I think they know what they're doing at the running back position. and it just, it plays a perfect foil to what Detroit's doing, investing heavily in a position that we know you shouldn't invest heavily in. While the Eagles, a team that is successful every year and contends for a Super Bowl seemingly every year, is finding running backs on the cheap and finding, like, guys with high ceiling,

like Swift has a high ceiling. Rashad Penny has a high ceiling. Either of those guys stays healthy, which is a big if for them throughout their careers, they might run for like 1,500 yards behind this offensive line. And in this run game with Jalen Hertz, And then I love the signing of Marcus Mariotta as the backup. We saw them bring in Munchu last year when Hertz went down.

And it worked against the Cowboys. But then the next week, we kind of saw it fall off a little bit. And that's because they had to change what they do. You can't run the same offense you run for Hertz that you run for Minchu. But with Marriota, you can kind of stay in that same genre of offense where you're running the quarterback and you're getting him involved in the run game. And it keeps the numbers the same. It keeps the defense honest.

They have to play the same types of coverages. when you have a different type of backup, it just kind of changes what you have to be, especially when you have a quarterback, as unique as Jalen Hertz is on the ground. One thing we shouldn't forget about with the Eagles, they lost both coordinators. I think the consensus thought would be

that the loss of Shane Steichen is more significant than the loss of Jonathan Gannon, but they will be going into next season with a little bit of a different coaching, staff. I think it was a pretty good get to be able to bring in Sean Desai as defensive coordinator. And then obviously they promoted Brian Johnson from within on offense. So those moves look good to me. I don't want to say that like it's going to work out perfectly. Those guys are going to do everything that their predecessors did or not fall into some of the schematic traps on

defense that I think Gannon sometimes stood there. But there is a little bit of uncertainty there. It's hard for me to say, like, they definitely got better in terms of who the coaches are. But in all the other categories, I think that's pretty clear.

I think especially losing Stuyken, like what you said. Yeah. The one thing that stood out to me watching them all year was how they adjusted and how they found answers to whatever the defense was able to take away. They always had a counter punch.

And I think it's one thing to find that counter. punch Monday through Saturday. It's another thing to do it in the heat of a game, like in the second quarter of the game where you need an adjustment. And I think Stuyken did that. Super Bowl. Right, yeah. And Brian Johnson, he could be the next great offensive coordinator,

but he's young and he doesn't have experience calling plays. And I don't know. It could be a tough adjustment there. I'm not so worried about it on the defensive side, but on the offensive side, I do think there are some issues. I like to decide. Yeah, I like decide too. And honestly, I think they were.

already running the types of coverages that he's going to run. And then, like you said, Gannon would fall into these traps sometimes, and there weren't a lot of adjustments from him. So maybe changing coordinators will give you something new, like an ability to adjust in the second half. The play sequencing on offense is the thing to watch. I think you're spot on to point that out, just because that team philosophically clearly knows how to build.

around a quarterback like Jalen Hertz. I'm not really worried about like the fundamentals of the offense shifting. But Stuyken was really, really, really impressive in that, I mean, even like the Super Bowl, obviously they lost. But that was, they did everything, man. Like, they did everything they needed to and they had the right counters and Hertz played one of his best games for sure. And that was a big part of why it seemed like they,

left it all out there but he was I think really really impressive in in game situations especially and that's the wild part it's not like do they understand how to support a running quarterback of course they do

like Brian Johnson has been there like that's how the team's built it's fine but the in game stuff I think will be interesting to watch offensively and if there's one thing that would be a concern I think it's that I do like the addition of Zakias

from Atlanta the receiver he plays in the slot I think it adds another element. If teams don't want to man up against Smith and Brown on the outside, which I don't think they will want to do, he's a good player at finding cracks in his own defense. I don't think they had that. Like in Quez Watkins, who was their slot receiver last year, he wasn't like,

I think he was better against man coverage. He's more of like a deeper threat. I don't think he was like the smart runner who knows how to get open. They have that in Zekees. And it will be interesting to see how that helps Jalen Hertz development because that's the one area where maybe you can find fault with his game is that he doesn't always give if the first read isn't open

sometimes he'll leave the pocket and usually good stuff happens then but now I think he has an option where he can hang around a little bit more in the pocket and find a guy, he knows he can rely on him to be the right spot at the right time. I know everybody's getting annoyed with all of the Howie Rosen phrase

but Sekees one year, $1.2 million. Just not a lot of money. just if that guy makes any sort of difference in that way, that's a win. All right, we can move on, but we're going to take a quick break first. All right, we are back.

Stephen, you have promised that we will not overlap yet again on your third team. And if we do, then if we do, we just end the pot here. My third team is the Los Angeles Rams, who did nothing during the off-season, who literally did nothing. Do you know how many free agents, they made this year.

This is according to Spotrack's tracker and NFL.com's official tracker. You know, how many they made? Two. No, they made zero. Zero signings. No signings. Zero free agents. Their only addition was the Hunter Long acquisition in the Jalen Ramsey trade.

What did they? I saw the other day the number of undrafted free agents that they brought in and it was like out of control. I'll look it up. But it was just so. They made 14. Right. They're just so, like, they just need, they need bodies. They need bodies, but guess what?

They need a stink. I feel like there are a lot of teams in this league that don't get it. They can't read the room. And sometimes you just need a stink. And I think the Rams realize that, like, Stafford's still on the roster, but for all intents and purposes, that era of Rams football is over. And they need to start anew. They need to start from scratch, essentially.

And basically, that's what they're doing when you look at their roster around the big names, Cooper Cup and Aaron Donald and Stafford, there is nobody on this team. And there are players that are penciled into the starting jobs that you have never heard of. Can I interest you in Logan Bruss? Christian Rose Boom? Michael Hoeked.

Darian Kendrick. Russ Yeast? No. There's a player on their team name Cobble Durant. Not Kevin Durant. Cobble Durant. And he's starting at Nickelback, according to our lads. Like, like K-A-B-U-L?

No, C-O-B-L-E, like he makes shoes or something. Like, oh, okay. Marcus Copeland? Buddy, you're living in Copeland if you think they're winning more than four games next year. I just wanted to make that joke. But yeah, the roster stinks, but I think this is a team that needed to stink. There are two very good quarterbacks at the top of the draft next year. And I would want to be in position to get one if I was in the Rams position right now.

And I think they've set themselves up to do that. they could be worse than the Texans. If you, that's what I was going to say is if you're the Texans and you just need like one or two other teams to be really, really, really bad so that you don't totally embarrass yourself by having traded away that pick. You were looking at the Rams bring in 23 undrafted free agents plus what was it? They're 12. 14. 14 picks. So 37 new players through the. draft and UDFA process, most of whom no one's ever heard of and would not make another team, just going like, doing the Jack Nicholson, like, yes, me. Cobbled Durant is not a real person.

I'm sorry. I'm glad that it's, I'm glad you clarified that it's like cobbled streets. Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Durand is such a player. The, I thought it was really, like, I still do. not understand what's going on with Stetson Bennett and this team. Like, why they're being so unbelievably weird about drafting this quarterback when, like, to me, the reason seems pretty clear is that they didn't have a backup quarterback. They need a backup quarterback.

A lot of backup quarterbacks cost like $5, six, seven, eight million dollars. The Rams don't have that. So they needed to draft one. But it's turning into this thing where, like, if we'd have the number one overall pick, we would have taken Stetson Bennett. We love Stets and Bennett so much. Stets and Bennett is so important to us.

Stets and Bennett also won't be a problem, which is important to us, for reasons that we're not going to define. He's just cheap. They just don't have any money. It's fine. If I was taking for Caleb Williams or Drake May, I would draft Stets and Bennett number one overall too.

So I get it. Maybe they were telling the truth. You think he's going to poison the locker? no i just think if he has to play it's going to be a disaster it just it doesn't move the needle got it got it got it got and he's going to have to play stafford is like barely hanging on at this point that's a good one that's a really funny one um i'm yeah i'm i'm into it it's like how to how to how to design a perfectly uh how to design a perfect pre-tank off season is just do absolutely nothing add 37 players

no one's ever heard of and tweet some really weird stuff about your backup quarterback. I love it. I think it's great. You were right that I didn't have the Rams. So I'm glad that we didn't totally overlap on this. The problem is, do you think they really will be bad enough? Oh, yeah. I'm looking at the, like, the only question is, like, is Stafford back and is he back to playing at the top 10 level?

Yeah, like, what if Stafford is okay? When you look at the offensive line, it's terrible. And like outside of Cooper Cup, the receiver room is terrible. The running backs, like, you still have Sean McVeigh there, though. But I just don't know how you work around that. And we look at what was their worst year under McVey? Like, they went seven games in 2019. I think this team is way worse than that team was.

So I would not be surprised if they win five games, four games. It's bad. And I don't think Stafford's going to play 17 games. Did McVe think about retiring just because, like, he knows, didn't want to be around for this? I think he's waiting one more year to see if they get Caleb or Drake May, and then if they don't, then he's out, which is honestly a smart move on his part. For someone who seems like he has a tough,

tough experience processing losing, I am a little, if this conversation is clarified one thing to me, is that I'm a little worried about Chonda Faye next year. He should do like the coach K thing where like he senses they're losing, he pretends like he has a back injury and he sits out the rest of the year. Honestly Sure, do it. Coach K, Duke missed

one NCAA tournament when Coach K was there and that was the year that his back hurt and he couldn't coach coincidence. He could, you know what?

He could donate his elbow to Stafford and then claim that there were like complications with the surgery and he's really having trouble. That would be good.

Yeah, just make an injury. Win, win. This is like, this feels to me like more great advice. from the people who brought to you frame Russell Wilson for a crime. Still not a bad idea.

And it almost happens with the charity stuff. Okay. The Rams, thankfully, were not my last team. So we do differ in one. I put the Colts as my third team. And we've talked a bunch

in the last week about how much I loved what they did in the draft. They could have gotten the most exciting player, maybe even the best player in Anthony Richardson. If he hits, that's just going to be a huge difference-making move for that franchise. And again, the draft overall plays into this a lot. We don't need to totally go through that because we did it on the draft show.

But I do think that while some of those moves, I mean, they've always liked just getting big athletic players in there. And that's for the most part who they drafted. which I still like. I think the other thing that has really made me excited about what they've done this offseason is just like a lot of the moves and a lot of the things that they've said about them show a bit of a philosophical shift there that I think they really needed. Stephen Holder did a really good piece for ESPN on the drafting of Anthony Richardson and everything that went down there and when they decided that they wanted him and all of that. And there are two quotes that really jumped out to me. And one was Chris Ballard was telling him that they decided that Richardson would be their top choice in the draft about a month before, like three weeks, three, four weeks before the draft they'd settled that he was the top quarterback on their board.

And the reasoning Ballard gave was that of all of the top quarterbacks who they'd have a chance at drafting it for, everybody had some sort of flaw. They didn't see, you know, even though they're being pretty, like, they're talking a lot about how much they love Anthony Richardson would have taken him with the first pick. They were pretty honest about, okay, we looked at this class and said, there's no, like, Trevor Lawrence here. There's no Andrew Luck. There's no Peyton Manning. And given that everybody had some type of flaw, what Ballard said was, why not take the one who could be a grand slam? Which, if you're a Colts fan and you've lived through this carousel of, like, stopgap, then. veteran, immobile, old quarterbacks

who are not going to be there for very long. I think that's a really nice thing to hear from Chris Ballard because the issue with all of those guys was just they were not going to be, the ceiling was somewhat limited. And the Colts for the last, since Andrew Luck retired, have been a team that I think is still in some ways impressively stable, but they just don't have a lot to show for it. And the fact that they are going for that,

and maybe they're only going for that because they looked at the quarterback class and went every single one of these guys has some major question mark. If that's the case, I think that's a blessing in disguise. So whether that's a purposeful change in how they see what you need at the quarterback position to be competitive, maybe that's something

that would happen in response to just the strength of quarterbacking around the AFC or if it is just a happy accident because they didn't think there was any sure thing in the class, I think you're really, really happy to hear that. And then the other one is from Jim Mersey,

who seems completely enamored with having a running quarterback, which again, they have not had. Like, those guys that they've brought in there have been, for the most part, statuess. and it seemed like Ursa was talking to the coaches in the draft room and telling reporters

that he was sort of fantasizing about what Anthony Richardson could do with Shane Steichen and comparing it to what Jalen Hertz has done in Philadelphia. And he said, Jalen Hertz is a running back in that scheme. Four downs, good luck. And I'm just like, yes. Like Jim Ursay is getting it. if the owner, if like a very involved owner is getting it on that level, they might actually be able to pull this off.

Like they have buy-in from the places where you need buy-in. And it just makes me really, really, really encouraged about how they see team building right now in Indianapolis. And we're seeing that borne out in what they did in the draft. They didn't do all that much in free agency. I think their biggest signing was Samson Ebukom, which like, cool. But I think that I am ready to say that I'm convinced that they are moving on from this era where it was just sort of like treading water. And that plus a genuinely exciting young quarterback and an offensive coach

who you believe can coach him up and develop him in a way that can get the best out of him. is just like, that's, that's a home run. If there's a team in the ASC, because we, you know, we've done all of this, like, going through the list of all of the top quarterbacks and noting that a few of them are not going to make the playoffs. Well, the other piece of that is that somebody's going to come out of nowhere, right? Like, there are going to be teams that were not contending last year, then end up contending this year because it happens every year in the NFL.

And if I'm looking at. who in the AFC might pop up as a playoff team I really think

if Richardson is good they should be a good team this year like they should be I don't know like it's just so hard

in that conference but I really really think that they would have a chance at being a playoff team and being a

playoff team that you're a little scared of and they're like they're one poor injury luck season away from Jacksonville from being able to win that division. Like the division isn't terribly competitive beyond Jacksonville. And even Jacksonville has its own question marks.

It's not like Jacksonville was world beaters last year. But I think it's like easy for us to talk about the quarterback position like philosophically and be like, oh yeah, you should always take the quarterback with the mobility. You should always take a big swing on the high upside guy rather than taking a smaller swing on a safer prospect. But for Ballard and Ursay to come out and say it and to show that they are willing to actually make the picks with that philosophy, I do think it's a win.

No matter what else the Colts did during the offseason, they didn't, like you said, they weren't that busy. Getting the quarterback position right, and I'm not saying Anthony Richardson is the answer. I'm saying getting the thinking and the philosophy right is such a big factor for an NFL team. And the Colts are the perfect illustration of this because they got so much right around the quarterback.

position for the last four years or whatever it is. They just couldn't get that right because they were trying to hit singles and doubles rather than swinging for home runs, them finally swinging for home run. That's enough for me to consider this whole offseason no matter what else happened, a win for them. I also think one of the biggest questions for them is going to be how do we end up looking at

this past season of offensive line play that they had after this year? Is it a blitz? where just like everything went wrong and guys had down years and everything sort of snowballed. They didn't have mobility at quarterback to fall back on. And things just got really, really bad. Or do we go, oh, gosh, all those guys who you've committed so much money to, they're not as good as we thought they were. Or like their best years are behind them. And all of a sudden those are positions of need.

I genuinely think that could go either way, but I do think that having a mobile quarterback will make some sort of difference there. And if that, I mean, the best thing for them would be to see offensive line turn back into a strength. We'll see. If it did,

I think then you start to go, okay, this offense is actually kind of scary. Maybe there's still a little something to be desired at receiver, but then you get the running game really going again. Obviously, Richardson helps a ton there. The protection has always been just like such a hallmark of when they've been good. And defensively, they've made big investments at Corner, particularly in the draft. And you can, there's just, there's a world where it all comes together. And because I do look at a lot of the teams that I think had other good off seasons and go either, well, this is a team

that was already good that made good moves to stay good. Or there are some situations where it's like, okay, like I think the Cardinals are having in a weird way a good off season just because they are amassing so much draft capital. But the Cardinals are not a, the Cardinals might be the worst team in football next year. Like, the Colts are a team that I think has had a good offseason and it could actually mean, like, often that, often it's hard to be like, this is a good off season that is going to take a team from bad to good. I actually think that that might be happening in Indianapolis.

They were a bad team last year. I think they might be a good team. It's not about a good team getting over the hump or a bad team restocking for the future. They might just, like, have made themselves into a winning football team. And it feels more organic, I would say. Like, we see a lot of instances where a team does kind of make that big leap during the offseason, at least perception-wise. And it required them to kind of mortgage their future.

They, like, spent a bunch in free agency. Like, I'm thinking about, like, the Patriots, Mac Jones rookie year, signed a bunch of guys in free agency. They paid a bunch of money to them. They draft a quarterback in the first round, and they do all this. And what did they get out of it? They get a FC wild car. birth. And then the next year they kind of took a step back. I don't think the Colts like set

themselves up for that, that whatever the opposite of a rebound is. Like, I don't think they're going to take a step back after next year because of what they did this year. And like my, the first team on my list of off-season I hate it, I think qualify as a team that did a lot this off-season, and probably got better for 2023. But beyond that, I don't know how good the off-season was. And that's the Lions, the team that we talked about a lot after the job. draft. But I think after the draft, you take a step back and look at the whole offseason. And now you're hearing talk about Jared Goff possibly signing an extension. And now it's like, what are they up to? Like, what is their plan? Is Brad Holmes, the GM, is his plan to rebuild the

2018 Rams? Like, does he want to score exactly three points in a Super Bowl one day? Because that's what it seems like. And it seems like this offseason was about maintaining, like what you said, maintaining what they had, the solid team they had, rather than looking for ways to push them forward towards contention. And I thought, well, one of the most obvious ways to do that was to take a big swing at quarterback. And the Hendon Hooker is not my idea of a big swing at quarterback. Brad Holmes gave a very weird quote about like sort of justifying passing on guys like Dillon Carter, Tyree Wilson, and what they did in the draft. And was, he went on this thing about like battling against cognitive strain because people get attached to mock drafts and they form a

consensus opinion. And I didn't like it. I thought it was, he said, whenever you put cognitive strain in a project, i.e. mock drafts or forecasts of where a player is going to be picked, when the desired result isn't what you wanted, your brain's not going to like it. If it matches up and you get a dopamine rush, it's great. but if not, you're kind of mad, and then what compounds it is,

now you've got to get a grade where your brain still doesn't like it. Those are just words. That's just like a really involved way of saying we made low value draft picks. Right. He's David Gettleman with a better thesaurus, basically. Yeah.

I read that and was just like, I do, in fairness, can I say one thing about the Lions whose draft I don't like And if I was a fan of that team, Jared Goff extension talk is like really concerning. Detroit had a great free agency. They had a really good free agency period. Cam Sutton, Manuel Mosley, CJ Gardner Johnson, really, really cheap, really great contract there.

I really like that. Montgomery, little rich for my blood, but, you know, whatever. Graham Glasgow, good to add on the offensive line. and Marvin Jones. Like, those are a difference making moves. I think they all come at, maybe with the exception of Montgomery,

pretty reasonable costs. So I want to, in fairness, say, plus they didn't lose Ben Johnson. Not everything there was horrible. I really don't like what they've done in the last two weeks, but they've made,

some good moves. Right. They're a better team. They're going to be a better team because of this offseason next year. My question is beyond that. And I think this was their offseason to kind of, their last, like, chance to kind of, you know, take a big swing based on like the trajectory they're on. I don't think this is a team that's going to be drafting the top 10 again. I don't think they're going to be a team that has a lot of cap space to throw around again because they do have some younger players that are going to have to sign. So I don't know. I thought this was the offseason where they had a chance to evolve and they didn't evolve. They just tried to strengthen what they already have,

which I do think it's going to work out. I think they're going to win the division next year, which that might be enough to justify it. This is a fan base that hasn't seen a lot of winning. I don't think they've ever won the NFC North. I'm pretty sure the Bucks have won the division more recently than they have. So I don't know, maybe that's what they're going for, but I saw this team with a much higher ceiling.

Right? like enough to justify what they, the draft picks, because I think, like, I think they're going to win the division and I think they're going to be a better team than they were last year, largely because I think their secondary is going to be considerably better,

mostly because of what they did in free agency. So you'd already, on April, when did the draft start, 25th, 26, whatever day it was, on April 26th, you'd already accomplished that. And then had an opportunity to make 2024 better, make 2025 better, maybe make 2023 better.

I think like there's probably a little bit of fruit on the vine in terms of just just the value of those picks right away. But it's the, we're I think a year or two away from feeling the impact of these. And I do think that they will be better next season because they, to me, I liked what they did in pre-agency. But if they win the NFC North, Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell, I think, are getting new contracts.

And in that way, it would be a win for them. Because part of the job, like, people talk about the GM and they're trying to win the Super Bowl all the time. You can't win a Super Bowl if you don't have a job. So I think the main role for a GM is to keep their job. And that way, Brad Holmes had a great offseason because I think this is going to help him get a new deal. Man. The vibes were so much better a month ago. I know.

Because that's the thing is, like, you don't want to throw out everything that they did to get to this point, which he had a lot to do with. As did Dan Campbell. I think Dan Campbell is a good coach for the time. that team. The players clearly love him. It's not like, I think somebody should shake him and be like, I understand that you played football in the 90s, but like, you coach

football in 2023. I still think that like you could do a lot worse in both of those positions. It's just, it has really, like, everything was looking so good and then they they blew it. It's kind of like

the inverse of... They could have better contender. They really, they really, really could have. It's kind of like the inverse of your point about the Colts, where, like you weren't necessarily a big fan of the move, but moves, but you were a big fan of what they were saying and how they were talking about the moves. It's kind of the opposite with the lions where the moves aren't necessarily that bad, especially in a vacuum. But the way that Holmes is talking about them, and then that mix with the talk of the extension for golf, the vibes are just a little off for me. They're on notice. All right. Anyone

Since we overlapped on a couple, were there any teams that almost major list, any others that made the anti-list? The winners list? I thought about the Falcons. But that's another team where I think the investment to get some short-term gains is kind of outweighed by the long-term ramifications of drafting a running back in the top 10. That has a tendency to come and bite you down the road, especially when it comes to negotiating that next contract

and whether he stays healthy or not. I look at the San Juan Barclay situation, how his career has turned out, and I don't want any part of that. And it sounds like the Falcons just opted into that. So that would be, that's the one reason they didn't make the list. But everything else,

the moves around that, like what they're doing with the defense, the Okuda trade, I really like hiring Ryan Nielsen as defensive coordinator, bringing him over from the Saints, and kind of saintsifying that defense, building up the defensive line, adding Calais Campbell.

I think the defense is going to be a lot better. I think the offense is going to be very fun to watch and a lot better than last year, too. There's a very good chance this team wins like 10 games. My question is what happens after that. Where's the next step? It's kind of like the Lions. It's hard to take a next step when you're built around

offensive line, run game, and that style of play. They will, I think, get more out of Robinson than pretty much any other team in the NFL would because they want to run the ball so much. And we haven't really seen a ton of what this iteration of that offense wants to do with Ritter. But the running backs are going to get, like, I don't think he will be siphoning off as many carries as like a Hertz, a Lamar Jackson.

So you will be able to get as much value as is possible. I think out of Bijon Robinson there, I do, you know, we're not going to have the top 10 running back conversation. I think everybody sort of knows what that is. But they're in a better position than most would be, I would say, to at least get as much as possible out of that pick. So I don't love it, but I, like, it could be a lot worse and it's going to be super fun to watch. So, like, I agree. I think they've done, I think they've had a really good, they've had a really good offseason and, and, locking guys up on the offensive line for longer term, I think it's important to them. They also just know who they want to be.

Right. And it's a little bit like... The 2019 Titans is who they want to be. Yeah, exactly. It's just, it's a little weird, but I'm happy for them, I suppose. And it's nice when a team has a plan, even if that plan is to be the 2019 Titans.

All right. I think that's, that's it for us. So congratulations to, the dolphins, the colts, the eagles. The Rams. And the Los Angeles Rams for having the best off seasons. I will never get over that one. That was fantastic. Stephen, I really didn't see that coming.

You make me think in new ways every time we do this. You had never heard of Kabul, Durant before this. I had never heard of Carbone. It's really good stuff. This has been a learning experience, and it has been the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Pansiati. He's Stephen Ruiz. Thank you, as always, to producer Stefan Anderson for production on this episode and to Connor Nevins and Arduna Ramgapal for additional production supervision. We will be back next week.