The Ringer NFL Show - Bill Belichick on the Hot Seat? Plus, the Latest on the Ravens–Lamar Jackson Saga and the Commanders Bids.

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Nora and Steven return to discuss the news out of the owners meetings, the latest on the contract fiasco between the Ravens and Lamar Jackson, Robert Kraft’s comments on Bill Belichick, and the latest rule changes for the upcoming season. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Nora Puntiotti. I'm here, as always, with Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, how are you doing on this fine Wednesday? I'm doing great. I got some Lamar Jackson dopamine on Twitter. last night. How are you doing? You're at the owner's meeting,

like the world's largest collection of khaki, I would say. Never seen so much khaki in my life. It is a really resortware centric vibe here in Arizona. But Lamar was hitting you up with some retweets. My question for you, Stephen, have you ever sold exercise equipment in Florida

and not told us about it? No, no, but I would be willing to do so. And I feel like this is like a track record for me now. I was apparently Antonio Brown's personal chef a year ago. He didn't pay me. And then now Lamar Jackson, two South Florida athletes that I'm getting into business with, apparently. But I will sell Lamar's gym if he wants me to. I will sell anything.

Just give me the money and I will do it. Would you not illegally, that's not the right word. That's not a crime. but against the rules in a violation of NFL policy, would you contact teams on his behalf in an attempt to seek a trade? Maybe I did. Maybe I put in a call to Caroline and Scott Fitterer. Maybe they didn't answer.

And maybe I got a restraining order now. We don't need to cover that. I don't know. Maybe it happened. All right. Well, we'll keep tabs on that. Are you Chief Seaholic, too? Yes.

I also rob banks. No, I'm actually a good bank robber. I don't get caught. All right. Well, that's good to know. We'll have to keep an eye on Stephen's side hustles. But I am here at the owner's meetings.

There is a lot of khaki. There's also a lot of talk. That's really what happens at the league meetings every year is everyone just talks to each other. They talk in meetings. They talk in their privileged sessions, debate rules. Then the owners and the coaches and everybody,

they come out and they do, they sit down and talk at the media breakfasts. They walk around the Biltmore and talk to each other. They talk to reporters. So there's a lot of messaging going on. And we're going to run through some of the messages that have been sent and delivered from Arizona. And that's going to be starting with your client, Lamar Jackson, because it's been two days since he posted his trade request,

although obviously he'd made it to the Ravens several weeks ago. But it's been two days since Lamar published his trade request at the exact time that John Harbaugh was sitting down to breakfast with reporters. And no team has made a move, at least not that we know of. There's really not much that's happened. Stephen, can I tell you a story about how that morning went down for me when I was going to the Biltmore to sit. I would love to hear it. I'd love to hear everything that he said. So the breakfasts are really early in the morning.

They happen at 745. And so I get up at, you know, 645. I'm in my hotel. I get ready to go. Everything's great. I get my coffee. I'm on the way to the Beltmore. And then I'll be really honest.

The zipper on my pants rips in half. Oh, no. I was wearing a pair of pants that I'd like mess. stuff a zipper at some point and I thought I'd fixed it. I thought I'd gotten it back on the track. I thought everything was fine. I sit down in the cab on the way to the Billetmore and like five minutes later I go, oh boy, I have a situation here. I'm early at this point, but not like incredibly early. So for a second, and I'm wearing kind of a long shirt. So for a second, I'm like, do I just try to get away with this? And I let the guy drive a little bit further. And then I go, what am I thinking? This

is insane. Absolutely not. What is wrong with me? So I say to the guy, hey, I left something in my hotel room. Any chance we can loop back. I'll add a stop on the Uber. Is that okay? And he's like, yeah, sure, that's fine. And it's not a super long drive, but we do have to turn around and we go back. I go upstairs. I change my pants. I get back in the car. We go back to the Biltmore. but this means that I get to the Biltmore, maybe like five minutes before the breakfast is supposed to start. And they drop you off kind of far away from the meeting room. So I'm hustling. I'm hustling to get there and put my stuff down and everything. And you're kind of worried in that situation, right? That like something's going to happen and I'm going to miss it and whatever.

and right before I get into the workroom, I see other people, including some people from the Ravens, I think I'm a PR staff, also walking towards the banquet hall where the breakfast session is set up. And I see this group of people pick up a run to get into the room and just go, oh boy.

Because especially when you're sort of on high alert For what if I miss something What if something was wrong? Anything like that is just like Something's happened. Gotta get in there. So I just opened up my phone And Lamar has just tweeted the thing

And I walk in and immediately They actually placed Harbaugh In a very nice He was right front and center So I didn't miss anything But it was a chaotic morning And the most exciting. The most exciting

the most exciting, perhaps too exciting way I could have found out about the tweets and the trade requests and the Ravens response. So that was my situation. I needed to get that off my chest. It was a little bit embarrassing. I feel like that could be used as a metaphor

for this contract negotiations. Like, they're off the track. You just got to replace the pants. You got to replace the pants. But it would have been much funnier if you would have, you know, you went with your little ploy with the long shirt to cover up the unzipped pants.

And then you saw people like whispering and chattering about the Lamar tweet. And then you thought it was about your pants. That would have been a much fun of your outcome. But I'm glad that you didn't have to deal with that. I don't have the emotional fortitude to handle something like that. I would have gone into the bathroom. But like, they're all talking about me. I can't believe this.

You're no Lamar. You are no Lamar. Lamar would have just tweeted through it. This much is true. Okay. So it has been two days since the trade request. The only real movement is that there have been some owners here who have said that they said or implied that they're not going after Lamar. So Jeff Howe from The Athletic reported that the Patriots are not expected to pursue Lamar.

Now, I guess Robert Kraft went in some ways the opposite way by saying that Meek Mill suggested that Lamar wants to play for the Patriots. And that that would be up to Bill Belichick to decide. but Arthur Blank made some comments in which he questioned Lumar's durability, said there's some concern over how long he can play his style of the game, mentioned that he's missed some games over the last couple of years. Arthur Blank also said that it was a very different situation than the one in which they went after Deshaun Watson last year. I frankly don't get how.

DeShon Watson's torn the same ACL twice. And it also figured very obviously that he was going to be suspicious. ended for a large portion of last season, if not more than that. And that was all the case when the Falcons went after him. But that did seem to indicate that they're not really in this conversation, at least not right now. And then Jim Ursay told Stephen Holder that they're not, quote, closing the door. And that, quote, the money is not a problem. But he also made a bunch of comments to Zach Kiefer from the Athletics saying that he doesn't

believe in fully guaranteed contracts and thinks they're really bad and bad for the league and have been bad in other sports. So I guess on brand being a little bit out of both sides of the mouth with Jim Mersay. But I thought that was, I think that's sort of instructive when you compare it to how the Ravens responded to Lamar publicizing the trade request. Because when I did make it into that conference room and sit down with John Harrow, Barbaugh. That man was cool as a cucumber. Yes. Yes.

And the thing that I think it reflects is just that if Lamar is going to get a win here, I think it's going to happen once they're playing football games again. And people remember, oh my God, this guy is really, really, really good. I am just starting to feel like, unfortunately, this guy has no leverage. And I think the Ravens know it. I think other teams are just not taking part in it because the only way that they would have leverage would be if some other suitors jumped in the mix.

They just don't seem willing to do that. And at least that might be in part because of a feeling that, well, the Ravens could just match anything and we don't want to move the needle on player compensation. I think that's not a good strategy to win football games, but I also think that it's what's happening. So as Lamar's representative,

how are you going to deal with a situation in which it does seem like Baltimore holds a stronger hand than Lamar? I think the first thing you have to do if you're Lamar's camp, and apparently I'm in his camp now, I didn't choose this life, but I accept it. Oh, yes, you did.

I think you have to get, I think you have to get your demands out there. Because the one thing that, and I think you covered this in your column on, Lamar this week, we don't really know what he's demanded. Like, we have a vague idea. And a lot of these ideas are based on reports that have to be coming from the team

side. Like usually if there's negotiations going on and a player has an agent, which Lamar doesn't, and you're getting pro player reports, it's usually coming from the agent. And then if it's the other way around, it's coming from the team. And we've seen the reporting on this Lamar contract thing, just get weirder and weirder. They're in-home gym solutions being talked about. They're an unlicensed agent.

Meek Mill is calling around. Was Meek Mill the unlicensed agent calling teams? Because he apparently called the Patriots to let them know. So I think you just have to clear the air. Are you Meek Mill? I might be Meek Mill. Is Stephen Ruiz an alias for Meek Mill? I might be.

But I think that's part of it is that like people don't know what Lamar actually wants. And the perception is that he wants this fully guaranteed deal on par with what Deshaun Watson got. And I think once, like, that's the conversation starter, I think it's hard to get past it. And the only way to get past it is for Lamar to come out and be like, can I just get a normal quarterback deal? And I think if he does that,

and if that's the consensus that that's what he wants, maybe the market opens back up. And that's only if this is, if this is a thing where it's like the league looking at Lamar, evaluating him honestly and saying, we don't think he's going to help us win. But if this is like some nefarious thing where they're trying to, I don't know, make an example out of a player that maybe is unruly in the owner's eyes.

I think that's the only way where him coming out with his actual contract demands doesn't actually affect change in the situation. Yeah. I think you're right. I think he should. So here's what we do know. The Deshawn Watson deal factors into this in some way, shape, or form. Harbaub mentioned that and brought that up. I think that was one of the original sticking points on why these two sides started so far apart and weren't able to get a deal done last off season. And so that's five years, 230 million fully guaranteed. The one thing that Lamar has said or tweeted was that he didn't accept a deal of 133 million over three years fully guaranteed. And he shouldn't have accepted that, right? Like that's not a good deal for Lamar.

It puts him at less annually than Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, and Kyler Murray, each of whom signed an extension in 2022. There's a lot of room between those two deals, right? And it, I think, would help his case to get it out there exactly what we're talking about. Harba said a couple times. And now I think that this is I think that this is a little bit of a stretch and I think it is him sort of taking the high road

and making it clear that he's sort of unbothered by this situation. But he said a couple times, we're just figuring out money. It's just money. It's just numbers and numbers can be worked out and it's dollars and cents. Again, I think that's a little bit of a stretch

because, yeah, sure, it's just money. But in this case, very clearly, the money represents something. something that's emotional. And I do, I've gotten the sense from talking to people that they've gotten, the zipper really has gotten off track because they've gotten into a mode where everything is about winning. And every piece of the contract is, I want this, which represents that I've gotten a win in this deal. And this is really player friendly. And here are the guarantees. And there's just no, oh, well, I can compromise on this. Well, we can compromise on this.

They're not negotiating in that kind of way, which is a really tough spot to be it. So I guess I'm saying I'm of two minds about it because I do think that if Lamar were able to put out what he's actually going for, the big numbers on it, people would look at and go,

that's pretty reasonable. Because you don't have to get that far shy of the Watson contract. which by the way, like in a better world, Lamar absolutely deserves all of that. And NFL players should have fully guaranteed contracts. It's the most dangerous sport.

And the players still get the least amount of guaranteed money as well as the lowest percentage of the league's overall revenues. It's not fair. I do think that if he is, if he is indeed staking himself to five years, 230 million, he's fighting a losing battle because he's not a free agent. and Deshaun was not a free agent, but it was a different situation

where he was very clearly, the team didn't have the right to match and wasn't going to try to match and he was not in that mode. Lamar, without the power of free agency, I don't think is going to be able to get that done. And I think it's only hurting himself if he is really, really holding firm

to it has to be 230 over five fully guaranteed. I don't know, but I also don't think, but if I had to guess, I would say I don't think that's what's happening because he's indicated that it doesn't have to. be a totally fully guaranteed deal, and he absolutely should be fighting for something better than 133 over 3 fully guaranteed. So if it's in between there somewhere and he put it out there,

I really think the response in general would be, yeah, I'd pay that for Lamar Jackson. Like, that's, it's a lot, but he's really, really good. And that probably does help his case to some degree. But if you're going to do that, it has to be, here's this deal that would be really good and be reflective of the worth of, you know, a unanimous MVP selection who's 26 years old and would make any team that got him an instant contender.

But it doesn't have to be a win on every single facet of the deal. And I would imagine that if it weren't with the Ravens, that's probably a little bit of an easier thing at this point. Because it does seem like that relationship is in a tough spot. The question there to me is if no one else is willing to get involved. And Lamar feels like that relationship is really broken. But the Ravens are the ones who have the better hand here. I don't really know what happens next in that situation.

I think he has to end up back there. There's really not all that much that he could do about it. Holding, refusing to sign that the tag and not playing hurts him at least as much or more as it hurts them. And then they would just have to work it out. But that, that's a messy situation. It is messy. And I think the personal thing is something that we, like, as media, have kind of overlooked. I feel like when we've had this discussion about the negotiations,

It's been framed in the money, the money top, the fully guaranteed contract. But I do think for Lamar, there's like something personal about this. And it goes back to the way he entered the league and the skepticism around him as a quarterback. And basically the way, I guess NFL coaches and probably before the NFL, probably college coaches talked about him and suggested that he needs to change positions and that he can't play quarterback and that he's not built to play like this. And he just keeps proving them wrong. And I think that this contract, whenever he signs it,

it's going to be validation of him kind of pushing back against that notion. So I do think that matters. And I think him getting paid a lot matters to him. I think him doing it without an agent would matter to him a lot. There's like other factors. And then something that you just got at, like maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Ravens anymore. I think that I don't know why we're not considering that.

Because this is a team. Maybe he doesn't want to play for the Ravens. Now, who suggested that that might be the case or that that might be a good course of action? I think it was you, Stephen. I think it was you several months ago. The inside information, it just seems like it's piling up. Yeah, and it kind of is. I'm having a hard time beating the allegations.

But going back to that podcast, like the case I laid out for why he shouldn't play for the Ravens again is because this is a team that says they support him. And I think John Harbaugh said, like, we've believed in Lamar this whole time. These other teams may not, but we've believed in them. We've been behind them. We drafted them. But like, you look at the team's moves. They haven't really given them a receiving court, but suggests that they don't think that that's very valuable to their style of offense. They put him in this style of offense with a lot of tight ends, a lot of fullbacks, a lot of running plays.

Because, I mean, the implication there is that maybe they don't think he can, like, hang in a traditional passing game. they drafted Hayden Hurst over him. They let him drop to the 30 second pick overall. Like, sure, they believed in him more than other teams, but like, what, what have they done to earn the right to say, like, yes, we've supported Lamar, we've believed in him. You haven't treated him like a quarterback that you believe in. You've had two years to pay him, and we're still at this point.

When have you ever, ever outside of the Dak Prescott situation, which I would argue is a little different because he was drafted lower, he was replacing Tony Romo. Jerry Jones is Jerry Jones. So that's a unique situation. When have you ever seen a guy that I think everyone agrees is the Ravens franchise quarterback? He was drafted in the first round. When have you ever seen negotiations for contracts get this deep and this messy for that type of partnership?

Kyler Murray might be the only other thing. And even that didn't get to this point. In fairness, they've tried to sign him to something. Now, and again, this is part of why this is so hard to talk about is because we don't have clear information on what the numbers are. Is it just 133 over 3 and they've never gone above that? That's not a great offer. So if I were Lamar, I would be, you know, if not insulted, just not interested. But for me, like reading in between the lines, I'm kind of the opinion that I think the Ravens may have lowballed them.

Because they were confident. They were confident in putting the non-exclusive franchise tag on them that the league does not value Lamar as much as we might believe the league values him. So if they think that they're negotiating against what they think his market value is, and they obviously have a lower opinion of his market value than we have. So I don't see why they would. Well, or it does give them the ability to match. It does.

It does. But we've never seen a quarterback get the non-exclusive tag. We've seen quarterbacks get tagged before and no one has ever used to my exclusives. They've not, they've not dangled their quarterback out there for a team to give him a contract that they can't even match. Like they really risk losing Lamar Jackson. But I think they were confident in knowing that the league doesn't value him like Lamar probably believes. So I don't know.

Just reading between the lines, I would think that the Ravens probably aren't giving him the deal that would, like a godfather deal that he can't refuse. I wonder if in hindsight the real thing is he's not a free agent. In anything other than very strange circumstances like what happened with Watson, players who do not get to free agency do not have the maximum amount of power. And I think maybe Baltimore has just had a very clear sense of that. I find this whole situation very hard to talk about because it's so easy to root for everything Lamar is doing and want it to all work out for him.

And there's something so, like, I have such an impulse to want to be supportive of a player saying, I don't need an agent. I want to do this myself. I have this very long history of the traditional power players in the world of pro football and in college football. not believing in me and proving them wrong and not having my best interests at heart. And a lot of that is racially tinged and it's really ugly. And he's dealt with it forever. And that's horrible. And it's so understandable why someone in that situation would say,

no, I have to look out for me because you guys are not looking out for me. And, you know, thanks for... Todd Monkin might be great, but it's too little too late. And I've got to do what's right for me because clearly nobody else is trying to do that. And I want to root for that so badly. Right. I also look at this situation and go, you know, no offense, Stephen. I don't think he's getting awesome advice.

I just don't think he is. I don't think that it's like if you're not, if you do not have the power of free agency, I think going this far out on a limb is a really, really, really dangerous play. And there's no better proof of that than the fact that it is this hard for a quarterback. this young and this good. And I hate saying that because it feels like I'm saying, you know, conform Lamar, play by the system, like roll over to the man,

and that sort of sucks. I do think that his best interests would be better served by playing ball a little bit more readily and not having everything. be quite so meaningful. It just seems like everything has to be making a point. And I think that's a tough spot to be in, particularly without the tool or free agency at his disposal.

And I do think like the timing is kind of unfortunate for Lamar. Like I think he picked the wrong time. I mean, obviously he didn't have a choice. It's just how his contract worked out. But on the heels of a few quarterbacks putting in trade requests and kind of getting them immediately over the last couple of years, Maybe owners are, like, I don't think, I'm not going to say that they're colluding to try to stop, like, you know, this momentum going towards fully guaranteed contracts. I don't think that's it because I think they know that that's not realistic.

You're not going to get enough players on board to get that done. But I think, I do think they see that quarterbacks, like, harnessing this power that they do have, this pool that they do have within organizations and using that to get their way out and getting getting their way. Like, it's not even just trades and it's not even just like contentious trades. obviously Russell Wilson is the best example from last year. But Matthew Stafford put in his trade request to Detroit, and he got out of there in a hurry. Tom Brady got his way. I know it was a different method, but he got his way out of New England.

And I wouldn't be surprised if owners are looking at that and saying, like, if quarterbacks start wheeling this power and they start deciding where they can go, like this opens the floodgates, and maybe we want to, you know, stomp that out, nip that in the butt. I do think there might be a layer of that involved in this. And I do think. the fact that Lamar was last, like Deshawn Watson already made his request and got out,

Stafford got out, Russ got out, Tom Brady got to go to Tampa Bay. I do think him being last kind of made it harder for him to get his... So it's an interesting idea. I have to be honest, I don't agree.

I think if you're an owner, I think there's some grandstanding and I think there are situations where teams and owners will say stuff about, oh yeah, it's been difficult. It's unfortunate.

that we're, you know, waging these sort of public wars of words with players who want to go places and, you know, you make a commitment and then two years later, the team's not good anymore and blah, blah, blah, blah. I do think, you know, there's some of that in the water stream. The thing is, what happens when players negotiate these trades? Often, you know, they shoot their way out of town

and go somewhere else. The trade comp is whatever it is. And then they do an extension. and you know what that means is that player movement is happening without the players hitting free agency

and I think it's happening more often with these high profile players that if they just waited they might have real power yeah now they'd have to stick it out for longer but if we keep

more and more going down this path of free agency as a dud and the real moves happen via trade the only real tool for players to truly significantly move the envelope gets, gets minimized.

I don't know that I think that the results of that are sort of playing out on the NFL stage right now. But it's, if I were in the union or if I were a player who follows this stuff really closely, I would be wary of that because it's just, like, Brady needed free agency to be. make that happen and to actually be able to pick where he was going, it remains, it remains the best tool at their disposal. And sometimes, okay, yes, the individual player gets a good extension and gets to go where they want. And that's fine. And if you're someone who feels that that's the right move, like, by all means, be my guest. But it does mean that there are less market shifting deals getting done. Yeah, I do think that's his best road here is the Kirk Cousins.

Just wait them out. Just wait them out. Wait a mouth. They can't franchise tag you for him. Eventually it's going to become untenable and they're going to have to let you go. And I think that's just what Lamar is going to have to wait for. All right. Well, I'm sure you'll pass that message along, Stephen.

Do you want to talk about Bill Belichick maybe being on the hot seat for a little bit? It's the only thing I want to talk about. I'm tired of talking about it. I want to fire Bill Belichick by the end of this podcast. Can I tell you two things that happened today? Do they involve your pants? This week? It just don't involve my pants.

I went back and forth so many times on whether or not to tell a story about my ripping my pants, but, you know, it happened. It's done. So earlier this week, when Bill was doing his coach's breakfast, he was asked what reason for optimism

Patriots fans have. And his answer was the last 25 years. Thank you, Bill. Thank you very much. Later, Robert Kraft was asked if Bill, not if he's on the hot seat, but if he is safe and warm and cozy there until he breaks Don Shula's record

and if that's important to craft to see that happen, or if there would ever be any thought to moving on if results don't change. And Kraft said, look, I'd like him to break Don Shul's record, but I'm not looking for any of our players to get great stats. We're about winning and doing whatever we can to win.

That's what our focus is now. It's very important to me that we make the playoffs, and that's what I hope happens next year. Seat getting warm? No, I don't think it's getting warm. I think that the seat that might be getting warm is Bill's GM seat. I think we've kind of seen, I mean, there was talk about like their process in the draft.

I think that was like two years ago at this point. Sure. And I don't think Belichick has kind of, I don't think Belichick has pushed back against it too much, at least publicly. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes. But I do think if there's like some danger of Belichick's job, I do think it's maybe the power and control he has over building the team. But like in terms of him as a coach, I still think he has it. I don't think he's lost anything. The Patriots aren't winning, but they don't have Tom Brady anymore.

They don't have the same players they had before. They're not hitting in the draft as much as they used to. They're not hitting in free agency. Two years ago when they spent all that money in free agency, it was kind of a dud. So I do think, like, personnel-wise, Bill has, you know, maybe lost a step. But, like, coaching-wise, like, you watched the defense this last year. And the way that defense was coached, the way that defense kind of brought that team along during the early parts of the year when it looked like, New England had a real shot at making the playoffs

and being a contender in the AFC East. Like, that team still plays good. And Bill is still ahead of the curve when it comes to defensive stuff. Like, they're doing new stuff. They're doing cool stuff. State-of-the-art defense that you don't see older coaches do. And I don't think that's a concern with Bill Belichick. Like the game passing them by, I don't think it has.

I don't think it will because I think he's very vigilant about evolving schematically. So, like, in terms of him Defensively, I agree with you. Defensively, yeah, I do think he has an outdated sense of what wins on offense, but I do think it has to do with the fact that they don't have a quarterback. I think if they had a quarterback that's established and established star at quarterback,

I do think they would be more willing to do, quote-unquote, more modern things in the passing game. The offense would look more modern. But when you have a limited quarterback, and that's not a knock on Mac Jones, like two years ago, Matt Jones was a rookie, and that's what you do

with rookie coaches. You protect them, and that's the type of offense they had. They kind of took the bit a little bit too far last year, and then hiring Matt Patricia, made it just a little fucked up in hindsight. But,

I mean, I kind of get it, and we've seen what the Patriots offense was when they did have that quarterback. It wasn't outdated. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't bad in the ways that we've seen it become bad

over the last two years. So I still have a lot of faith in him as a coach. I think he's a top five coach. I think the results aren't there. But he did get this team to the playoffs last year. And I think that should count for something. Because Matt might not be the quarterback that Patriots fans thought he was after that first year. Maybe he's not the first round franchise quarterback that's going to be there for 10 years.

And if that is the case, the fact that they got him to the playoffs two years ago is impressive. And I think it's proof of the fact that Bill Belchick is still a very good coach and probably a top five coach in this league still. Top five. That's top. five, I don't know that I can... I don't know that I can do it anymore because of the way that he's neglected the offense. I do think that's fair. I agree with... I agree with you.

Defensively, I think they're doing great, honestly. And I'm curious to see if they kind of go get another number one corner. I do think that when that's through the draft or whatever it is, I would be not at all surprised if they used

their top pick on on an impact corner, I think, when they have those guys, that's when Bill's defenses are at their best. But I guess, so my take on this, I agree with you. I don't think that Bill Belichick's actually on the hot seat. I just, I don't think that Robert Kraft, he's not an impulsive guy. He is very sentimental, even though I think it's a little bit ridiculous for Bill to cite the last 25 years when they've won 25 games over the last three seasons as something that fans should be grateful for or that ownership should be grateful for. I just don't think that it's Robert Kraft's way to part with the figureheads of the dynasty

without something pretty extreme happening. And, you know, they've won the 19th most games in the league over the last three seasons. That's not good. But it hasn't been extreme. but I do think what that means is that I think some of the words Kraft said are a little bit empty because I don't see how the Patriots make the playoffs next year. They've gone 7 to 9, 10 and 7, 8 and 9. And I just don't know how this offense gets considerably better.

I do think that getting Matt Patricia out of there and replacing. him with Bill O'Brien is a big deal. But when I look at the division and the conference more broadly, I don't know how this team with this offensive roster makes enough strides to compete. So when you go big picture

and go, if I had to identify sort of Bill's failures over the last three years, it's not having a succession plan in place for Josh McDaniels, bearing the responsibility on Matt Patricia, and what's happened to the offense. And I honestly think that I look at that as issue number one more so than the personnel decisions, although it's, you know, it's all, it's all tied in together. And O'Brien is, I think, a really positive development and an interesting ad. And I do think that he'll have a positive impact on Mac Jones. But

the way that they're solid really still is the defensive side of the ball. I mean, they went to great lengths to make sure that they kept Gerard Mayo in the fold to prevent him from doing interviews in Carolina or for the D.C. job in Cleveland. That guy wants to be a head coach. He's said it. Craft is said he thinks it's going to happen.

So to the extent that there is a guy waiting in the wings who they're excited about and think might be a more sort of modern option who if Bill has lost a step is the guy that they're starting to look to more and more. He's still a defensive guy. So unless, if I'm making a list of why it should be better and I don't think that it can be all that much better unless they're making substantial strides on offense, the list is Bill O'Brien, end of list.

And I'm not saying that that doesn't matter, but it's just, it's not, it's not all that much. and then even if it does help, okay, Aaron Rogers is probably coming to your division. The Jets have a really, really good roster. And then Miami, there are certainly questions, but they've had the most exciting offense in football when things have been working there under Mike McDaniel and two has been healthy. And then it's the Bills.

So my question is just like, I guess what I'm saying is I think, I don't totally believe Robert Kraft that making the playoffs matters because I don't think that Bill's, is really on the hot seat. And I also don't see how they're making the playoffs. I just don't see how that happens. I don't see how that happens in the AFC East.

No, they have the fourth worst roster in the division. I think like once Aaron Rogers comes to the Jets, which we assume it's going to happen, I think that's an objective fact. I don't think you can even push back against it, even if you're the most optimistic Patriots fan. I don't think any other team would trade their roster for the Patriots roster. So I agree with you.

I don't know how to make the playoffs, but there is one obvious way for improving this offense. And Meek Mill might have the key to doing that. If I'm Robert Krabb, I'm calling up Meek Mill and saying, let's talk about Lamar Jackson because that's the one way you solve all this. That's the one way you make up for the mistakes that they've made over the last couple of years. Whether you want to put drafting Mac Jones into that bucket, you can if you want. I would personally do it.

But like the free agency mistakes, the coaching choices, the staffing choices. Like you can make up for all of those mistakes over the last two years. years just by bringing in this guy that we know is like a one-man starter kit for a top 10 offense or for a competent offense because we've seen it in Baltimore when he's had maybe the worst receiving court in the NFL a mediocre offensive line at best and then he has Mark Andrews who's pretty good who's good he's really good he fixes things but it's reportedly it's something they're not going to consider and I just don't know the thing that I think is interesting about this is I think the general narrative about the meek-mill thing is that

Kraft is sort of laying this at the feet of Bill Belichick and saying, okay, Patriots fans, if we don't get him, the team's bad and you're upset we don't have Lamar Jackson. It was Bill's decision, not mine, whatever. Which sort of implies that Kraft would be the one who would want to do it and Bill wouldn't. I think they both should want to do it. But I think there's nobody who should want Lamar Jackson to join the Patriots. more than Bill Belichick. Don't you want to be able to, you know, sit down and get asked about reasons for optimism

and instead of having to say, oh, that's 25 years have been pretty good, get to say, we signed Lamar Jackson. Isn't that a better answer to that question? Isn't that more fun? Don't you get to focus on your still very good and very well-designed and coached defense with a little bit more, you know, without having to deal with the fact that focusing on that means that you're neglecting an offense that's really floundering and not a potent unit and you've hired the wrong coaches and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

wouldn't adding Lamar Jackson just mean that Bill could do exactly what he wants to do, exactly what he likes doing the most, exactly what he's the best at, and then have the rest not be a problem that sinks their ability to actually be a competitive team? Wouldn't he be the person who benefits from this more than anybody else? Wouldn't it be oh my gosh, they actually found a reasonable next chapter after Brady. It's not his money. I know it's a lot of money,

but he could pass Don Shula. You're going to do it a heck of a lot faster if you have Lamar Jackson than if you don't. And then right off into the sunset. You actually get to go out on top. There's no one who should want to do this more than Bill Belichick. And you would think he would appreciate what Lamar Jackson brings to an offense

and how hard it is to defend Lamar Jackson-led offense more than anybody. And I think Bill Belichick, what makes him so good at defense, and this is how Kyle Shanahan has kind of explained how Belichick calls a defense, is he plays the numbers games. Like he knows where to put the numbers. He knows where to put the double team, what guys to take away. And with Lamar Jackson, and we've seen this with Belichick against other mobile quarterbacks.

He's had problems with mobile quarterbacks for the last five years. Yes. because he doesn't have that extra guy that he's had against other quarterbacks to double the other team's top target. He can't take away things because you always have to worry about the threat of Lamar Jackson or another mobile quarterback breaking the pocket and scrambling. It makes it harder to play man coverage. We know Bill Belichick loves to play man coverage. Like you said, his defenses are at their best when they have cornerbacks and they can play man coverage. You can't play man coverage against Lamar Jackson because you turn your back to the pocket because you're chasing receivers.

And guess what Lamar Jackson does? he runs. And the only way to play like that is to have a spy. And if you have a spy, you can't rush five, you can't blitz, you can't double team, you can't play complex coverages. You have to play basic coverages. He makes it so hard to call plays. And he puts so many constraints on a defense. And there are constraints that Bill Belichick himself has not been able to figure out. He certainly didn't figure out, figure them out last year when the Ravens went into Foxborough and beat the Patriots. Very silly. This is, again, this is why this is so hard to talk about because there's a cycle of like I'll be fully in

Lamar doesn't have the necessary leverage and I just think he's in a tough position and the Ravens know it and blah blah blah blah blah and then the more we talk about football it just goes back to this is lunacy it's insane like the the crux of this thing and this is what makes it so frustrating for I think people like us who appreciate Lamar Jackson is part of this conversation is that people think Lamar Jackson isn't a good quarterback or like isn't a viable quarterback for a long time or he can't throw. And I like was rewatching this tape from the last from the last year because I'm writing about Lamar Jackson this week. And it was just a reminder of how good he's become and how good of a passer he's become, even if the stats don't bear it out

because of what's happened around him. But he's one of the more talented throwers in the NFL. I don't think he's one of the more accurate throwers. I think that's a different conversation. But But in terms of like arm talent, arm flexibility, being able to change arm angles, being able to sidearm it, being able to look off defenders, being able to get zip on throws when you don't have the platform, being able to throw down field. He does it all. He does all of it as a passer. And for whatever reason, the league doesn't appreciate it. And the media at large, I don't think appreciates it enough in the development he's taken, the steps he's taken in his development. And the thing is, it's similar to Jalen Hertz.

Jalen Hertz has heard the same thing. But like Jalen Hertz, Lamar Jackson has improved every single year as a pocket passer. And it's like evident on tape. And that's going back to his first year at Louisville. Like he improved in his second year. He improved as a rookie,

his second year in the league, his third year. And that his progression has been linear. And it suggests that he's just going to keep getting better as he gets more experience in these offenses. And I think when you put him in a real offense, a real passing game that challenges him. and challenges him to get better as a pocket passer,

I think you're going to see even more improvement. And that's one of the reasons why I think he needs to get away from Baltimore is because I don't think they put him on the right developmental track. I think they put him on a track that they thought helped them win in the now. They played offense in a way that I think helped them win now, but I don't think it was the best for his long-term development as a passerer. But I think he's overcome that and still improved anyway. Well, because what I was I was going to say, unlike Jalen Hertz,

he's never had Devonte Smith and A.J. Brown and the best offensive line. and like he's never been in that type of environment. I do, I give the Ravens, I think, maybe 10 to 15 percent more credit than you do, which I think is totally fair. I do think, again, it's a little bit too little too late. It's on, I would like to see Lamar in the Todd Monk in offense. I would like to see what that looks like. I think it would be better. Now, I would like to see him with a better receiving core than he's ever had there. But I do think that moving on from Greg Roman was an important step. Just because of everything he symbolizes in terms of we're just so dedicated to the running game and we're focusing everything on that, that it does neglect both Lamar's abilities as a passer.

And I think you're so right to point out that it does change the development trajectory when all of the resources go into, you know, we're going to have five, five good running backs and just build the entire plane out of this and not think about the passing game as much as we should. But I don't, again, it's a little bit, I just, I hate the timing because it does seem like they're taking some steps. it's complicated because they're taking them, I think, assuming that they've got a good shot at getting him back, but that's far from given. But I don't think that they've done nothing. I don't think that they've done nothing. Right, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's fair to say. But I do think his experience with the Ravens just points to the fact that if you, say you make no other changes to the Patriots offense, like even scheme-wise. You run the same scheme, same receivers, same offensive line. You drop Lamar Jackson's into that. I think his time with the Ravens, proves that that would be a very good offense

at the very nice. Like a top 10 offense, fringe top 10 at least. Because it was with the Ravens when he had Demarcus Robinson and Willie Sneed at his top receiving option. Devante Parker would be the best player of Lamar Jackson is ever, our best receiver he's ever played with. A fringe top 10 to me

feels absolute floor. Because again, when he has been playing, when he has been healthy, that's what the Ravens have been. That's what the Ravens have been. And it's not the most impressive collection of skill position guys, as you've said. So that feels like the absolute floor.

There or no matter where he goes, and it could certainly get a lot higher than that. All right. Any last Lamar thoughts? No, just someone sign them, please. Or Patriot thoughts, I guess that's weird. Just go do it. Spoken like a true shadow representative. That is true.

I do think Belichick deserves some grace here. I will say that. Like, I know the last three years, haven't been great. I think you said they've won 25 games. The first year, like Belichick said it, that was a burn year for us. And then it was also the first year of COVID and that had

a dramatic effect on the Patriots in particular. They lost a lot of players to opt-outs more so than anyone else. And then they draft Mack Jones. They get to the playoffs. And then last year didn't go as well. And that was probably Bill's fault for hiring Matt Patricia's office four year. But it's one down year

that wasn't expected. So I don't know. I think he deserves a little more. from even craft. I don't think we even need to start saying I would like to see them in the playoffs next year. Defender of Bill Belichick, Stephen Ruiz. I'm trying to bring Belichick and Lamar together. Do you not see what I'm working at here?

Let me cook. Chest not jaggering. I'm less sympathetic, but I think that's a fair point. I just think the stuff with the offense last year was such an L. And I think Matt Patricia is squarely on Bill's shoulders. I think, I mean, I remember last year going around to training camps and hearing stuff like they were trying to like, you're trying to call people on the 49ers staff to like get info about how do you teach that scheme and getting shut down being like, well, we're not going to help you.

And I just think there was a lot of hubris in we can coach this. we can teach it and we can do it and we don't need any of the guys who have been who have come up in that system and really know it inside and out and then they sort of abandoned that plan. Part of the Patricia thing, I think Patricia coached badly, but I also think that they didn't have enough, like, they sort of had a manpower issue at one point because he shouldn't have been, because he was the de facto coordinator, the offensive line got neglected and then that had that caused huge problems. for them. And then they had to redo everything that they were trying to install in the run game. And I really do think that ultimately the buck stops with Bill and all of that happening. And it had a really significant impact on the quarterback and on the offense and how well they were able to perform last year. So like, I think he has mostly in that respect has made his own bed here. But I agree with you that if you, that outside of that,

the 7 to 9 year in 2020, they probably overachieved, given what was on the roster. And then they did, they made the playoffs. And that's more than a lot of teams can say. But I don't know that I would put them in the top five. Wait, they were making these calls to the 49ers in training camp? I heard that they reached out to try to like, hey, can we get some? Can we copy your homework? Basically.

And I mean, look, like there's been a back and forth between Shanahan and Belichick for a long time and the Jimmy thing is part of that. And so maybe it was sort of calling in a favor of, hey, remember when, remember when that only cost a second round pick and the Browns wanted to give him first? Don't you think that you owe us one? Can you give us your playbook? Can you teach us wide zone? Yeah. Is this how Patricia got through Rocket Science School? Copy and homework?

I'm not going to come. That's why he always has the pencil on hand. He's ready to jot down some notes. On the laminated sheet. Okay, you want to go rapid fire through just a few little items before we call it today here? Yeah, let's do it.

Two commanders' points. First of all, they have two bids in to buy the team that have hit the now $6 billion asking price from Dan Snyder. Dan Snyder was not at the owner's meetings. Tanya Snyder was here wearing very colorful outfits.

A lot of like bright teal, hot pink, you know, electric blue. I thought that was interesting. But so the Josh Harris group has submitted a bid. That's the one that includes Magic Johnson. And then a Canadian billionaire named Steve Apostolopoulos is I think how you say that. Has also submitted an offer. both of those bids meet the asking price.

I think they're considered to be from people who would get approval from the league. It does seem like it makes the matter of a sale when and not if. I'm curious if that will end up feeling like it makes, if that happens relatively quickly, like within the next few weeks, say, or there's another set of owners meetings in May. I'm curious to see how the timing ends up working out and if it feels like it has any impact on what Washington does going into next season. They haven't had a splashy off season.

There's been a fair amount of at least speculation that, you know, Snyder has not wanted to spend money on anything on the way out when it's not going to be his team. I did think that, you know, they were not interested in Lamar Jackson and Ron Rivera said that that has had to do with cost. I'm not saying that that's exactly why they didn't do it because obviously there's been a lot of teams that are sort of citing the same reasoning and acting the same way. I did, I did think it was interesting, though, just to sort of go, how did we get here? Because for my money, Ron Rivera said the single weirdest thing of the week. I know exactly what you're talking about. Do you want to tell the people? Is it that they see the same qualities in Sam Howell as they see in Brock Purdy?

He's got a little Brock Purdy in him. Maybe, just maybe, he might become Brock Purdy. Like, okay. Mind you that Howell was drafted in the same year and before Brock Purdy. Right. Like, I'm not saying he's wrong. Right, no. Why does that matter?

You're right. Cool? I don't see many of the same qualities in your roster as the, the San Francisco 49ers roster. So I'm not sure how far that's going to get you, buddy. I don't see Kyle Shanahan. Maybe you can call him up and ask him for some tips like Patricia, but I don't see him coming to Washington either.

But I think this is just going to be such an easy W no matter who buys the team. Because I live in Washington, this city hates Dan Snyder. I go to the defenders, the XFL games, and there is a fuck Dan Snyder chant every quarter. Not every game, every quarter. There's a quarterly F. Dan Snyder Chan. That's a lot.

And these fans are very excited for football, apparently, because they come and see the X-FEL. They come and see Dierre King and Jordan Tammy play football, and they don't go see Washington play. I'm morally opposed to the Canadian owner buying the team, though. I've seen what they've done to our great sport. They have like 12 players on the field. They have three downs.

People are running at the snap of the ball. Keep Canadians out of our great sport. No, I'm just kidding. His heritage is his heritage is Greek. Does that make a difference? No, I got nothing against the Greeks, just Canadians. No, I'm kidding. Like, you can buy the team. I really think, like, whoever buys the team, it's going to be an easy W.

And you know what would be a great first move? Calling up Stephen Reeves and asking about Lamar Jackson's availability. Because I got time to talk. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, I have a hard time seeing that actually happening. But it's, it is one of those wild card things. And, like, this is such an ownership-driven thing at this point, because there's just not that many coaches in the NFL that have.

have the leverage to go out on a limb and go, hey, we're going to get Lamar Jackson and it's going to cost $200 million. If something happens where Lamar is not on the Ravens next year and they don't just have to sort of like figure out their differences, it's probably because some owner woke up one morning and was like, you know what, I'm feeling a little dangerous. And there's one ownership group that is more likely than not going to be different and new. And that's always a wild card situation. And they're coming from outside of the circle. And I would add that I do think like the Washington-Baltimore thing matters in this case. It would matter in this case. Like that, like Ravens, the Ravens are taking over this region in terms of fans. Right. Right. We're seeing

fewer and fewer commanders fans every year, more and more Ravens fans. Taking the Ravens best player, the best player of maybe like the last decade since Ray Lewis and Ed Reed retired and bringing him over and winning games with him, that would be a huge win for Washington in that franchise. And it's a franchise that needs a win. Really bad. New stadium. Pay for it yourself.

Get Lamar Jackson. Fastest way for like the goodwill that could be accomplished in one fell swoop. And there was a time when it seemed like the asking price for

this team was going to be seven billion. So you know what? Seems like these guys have an extra billion dollars kicking around. Finance a nice place. Don't ask the public to pay for it. Get Lamar Jackson. Be legends. Legends forever. You would have a Bill Belichick style 25 years of goodwill, probably. Maybe we should buy the commanders. Should we buy the commanders? I don't think we can buy the commanders. I might have to rob a few more banks. we had to stop this podcast in the middle of recording because there was what like a carjacking outside of Stephen's

home yeah there is a carjacking live in the middle of of this podcast it's probably you could probably find it on the news look up first street southeast dc carjacking you'll probably see it on the news today i used to live around there when i lived in dc that's like right where i live oh nice you left town and crime went up apparently that's right All right we can talk about this more later

but not much in terms of the rules changes any feelings on the jersey number zero Steven I'm a fan more options is better I

how do you feel about the the QB sneak thing so which didn't come up and I think the most significant rules thing that happened was that nobody proposed banning the push sneak

and it might happen at some time in the future, but look, for as long as this doesn't happen, it means that we're going to get another year of teams using it. I know, I think Denver has talked about how they're going to try to implement it. That's just Sean Payton trying to get rid of Russell Wilson. Yeah, just shove them forward, guys. It's okay.

What if we all just smush Russell Wilson? the Eagles obviously used it a ton last season they'll keep doing it we're going to see more of it and I like it I'm in favor of it I don't care that it's like rugby I think there's something cool about moments in sports

when the other team your opponent knows exactly what you're going to do and they still can't stop it or they have to try to stop it and that's what I think is fun about it so I hope it stays but I thought that they were going to, I would not have predicted this. I think the most significant thing that

happened in just the new sort of offseason changing the rules cycle is that nobody actually have proposed banning it so they couldn't have voted on it. I sort of wonder what would have happened if it had been up for debate because I know there are a lot of members of the competition committee who don't like it. So nobody felt that strongly about it because it wasn't proposed. But I just thought that that was more meaningful than anything that they actually did put on the books and did vote on and change. Was that that that didn't happen. Maybe I'm just wrong, but I always just assume that pushing, like the sneak push was already like a penalty. I remember that being like a thing, at least in college football.

So maybe they just like reemphasize the fact that you're not allowed to be pushing quarterbacks instead of a rule change. well, I'll look this up and we can talk about it another time, but there was a rules change that kind of paved the way for it at some point, I believe. And then it took a while for teams to start actually acting on it. But it's not, no, I mean, they're allowed to do it. I think a lot of people consider it a loophole and a lot of there are still a lot of people in the league who would like to see that loophole closed. But none of them cared enough about it to bring it up and have them vote on it at the meetings. So for now, it's here to stay. I don't think that in July there's going to be, you know, a pro football talk post about the officials have been told that they're emphasizing this rule that's going to eliminate the push sneak.

I think it's happening. Yeah. Just stop it. How about that? Compete. That's how I feel. Compete. Right back.

Speaking of the word compete, which I sat down with, I was, I spent most of my time. during the NFC coach's breakfast with Pete Carroll. That man says compete more times per minute than I would have thought it was possible. But the last pod we did last week where we went through some of the remaining free agents, we talked a lot about Bobby Wagner, who is indeed now back with Seattle.

Any thoughts on that? I don't think it moves the needle too much, but it's cool to see. And I do think Pete Carroll is a coach that understands what Wagner's limitations are. And we talked about those last week. He's not the best coverage player anymore, but I think Pete knows that,

and I think Pete is going to get the best out of him. He knows him as a player. I'm curious to see their defense and just what they keep, what changes they keep from last year and how they continue tweaking that. Pete was talking a lot about playing a lot of three safety looks. I mean, they have the guys on the roster,

particularly if Jamal Adams stays healthy. but they brought in Julian Love and he was talking about using them and Ryan Neal and Quondre Diggs very, very liberally all together on the field at the same time.

I'm just curious to see what it looks like. But I think they're going to have an interesting they have a chance to have a pretty interesting defense next year. That's all I'll say. Did you see Pete took that picture with Nick Sabin?

He's been with Sabin. He's cooking up something in the last. He's in a lab. I do think the defense is going to be interesting this year. They tried to kind of do it last year. I don't think Pete was the biggest fan based on his press conferences, but I could see them pushing that a little forward this year. And I do think having a tough linebacker, a tough player in the front seven would help that a lot.

Because that run defense was soft at times, especially at the end of the season last year. I mean, that's sort of, that's my question about, that's the thing that I think is interesting about the Wagner deal. and then that he was talking a lot about, I don't know, power dime looks, whatever you want to call it, is like how is that going to influence how they're fitting the run? Because what they were doing with the defensive line in terms of that, I think they probably are going to continue to tweak a little bit because of how it looked at the end of the season. and I wonder if they're going to try to compensate for some of that with having that

sort of second layer of players getting a little bit more involved in that. But it's just a very... That could go in so many different directions, but it just seems like an interesting thing to watch. Yeah, it's going to be fun. All right, Stephen, we've kept you long enough. I know you have deals to negotiate.

I know you have teams to contact under the table. you have tweets to construct for Lamar to retweet. I hope you will keep us up to date. If there's any, you know, if there's any scupage available to us in the Ringar NFL show because of your close relationship and everything that I know you're busy negotiating behind the scenes, I hope you will think of us, your friends.

But I know you've got to get back to it. So I think we'll call it a day here. All right. Sounds good. Yeah, I'm very busy. I got a lot on my plate. This is been the ringer NFL show. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode. And to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.

We will be back next week.