The Ringer NFL Show - Bill Simmons on the Patriots' Rise to the No. 1 Seed and Playoff Expectations

Episode Date: December 9, 2021

Bill Simmons joins Nora and Mal to discuss the Patriots quickly becoming a top team in the AFC, which teams the Patriots should be worried about, and what makes this season a success for New England. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Mallory Rubin Guest: Bill Simmons Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Mallory Rubin. And I'm Van Laithen. Check out the Ringerverse podcast from The Ringer for all things, superhero movies, nerd culture, and fandom entertainment. We have instant reviews and fun takes on all the latest news and more available now on Spotify. Hello, and welcome to the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Prenziotti. I am here as always with Mallory Rubin and special guest, Bill Simmons.

Hello, Bill. Thank you for joining us. I'd like to point out you invited me not vice versa. That's true. And we invited you because we're going to talk about the Patriots. Fair. I'm here. I'm ready.

You could have invited yourself on. You're welcome to come anytime. I have some music queued up. Yeah. Oh my God. We are back. We're the Patriots and we're back. Valerie has a look of horror on her face.

Yeah. Yeah. We're back. You thought you got rid of us. I have some Vader figurions behind me, actually. So prepared for this. So before we started recording, there was a little argument going on about whether or not Mallory did not think the loss of one Matthew Judon. A lot of pooing by her.

He of the 12 and a half sacks. A lot of pooing. With witnesses. Other witnesses on the text. It wasn't just you and me. You were like he's fine. Overpaid by Belichick. We'll be able to replace him easily.

It was basically your take. I'm summarizing it. I miss Judon terribly. The Ravens could certainly use him and him potentially winning or at least competing for a defensive player of the year honors with the Patriots on their way to a number one scene in the playoffs is just an absolute hellscape. So glad to be here with both of you today. This is a nightmare. It's the revenge for who is that linebacker you stuck us with in the mid-2000s? Who was that, Roosevelt Colvin?

Didn't we get him from Baltimore? He gave somebody who stunk at some point. Well, look, I know Nora's going to ask, do you want to do the Boston Sports Media podcast or the national podcast? Boston Sports Media is, does Belichick trust Mac Jones? Does he trust him? What did the three passes mean? Right.

It's like maybe it was 40 degree, 40 mile an hour wins. Yeah. It might have been part of it. Maybe he just, Josh Allen through the point. He did.

They were bad. Josh Allen was bad in the game. They didn't go so well. No, they didn't go so well. Well, we're not going to do that.

We'll do a little bit of that, but we won't do a lot of that. What we're going to do is go through how the Patriots got to this point, how we feel about the Patriots leading the AFC in December of 2021. Well, how good they are really,

I think we have to define both in general and in the context of this year, specifically the AFC, because you can be really, really good and not really be that good in the AFC right now, which might be kind of the situation that they're in. And then what I really want to talk to you, Bill, about is

what level of achievement and success will make you happy and warm and fuzzy and reminding Mallory of all the missteps she has texted and all the things that she has said wrong. in the past, whether it's playoff appearances or down the line success or whatever. But let's start with how they got here.

And my question for you, Bill, is did you expect anything like this of this team? At the beginning of the season, did you feel like there was a chance that in December they would be leaving the conference? You mean other than when I picked them to play the Bucks in the Super Bowl and did a seven-minute video of it that we put on our website?

I don't do stuff like that. I don't make stuff up with, like, predictions like that. Like, I genuinely believe they had a chance more, more because I didn't think the AFC was very good. Right. And everybody was just bills or Browns. And it was like, really? Like, are we sure the, are we sure the bills or that team?

Everyone had the bills. And if they didn't have the bills, they had the Browns. And then it was like, all right, I can accept the Chiefs. But Bill's Browns and then the Pats, I just don't think people realized how wide open it was. And I don't think they believed in Mac the way it was so clear in July and August when you read all the quotes from all the people in the organization like that they really landed somebody good, that somebody they could compete with.

That was what I was judging it on. I knew they had the offensive line. I knew they could run the ball. I knew the defense was stacked, especially the front seven. I knew they had Belichick. And then the X factor was back. But every indication was that Mac was good. Did I feel as good about this when they were two and four?

I actually did. I bet on them to win in the AFC when they were two. and four because I just thought they were the most well-rounded team. I'm not impressed by anyone else in the AFC. Now, if we're talking about Packers, Bucks, Cardinals, I don't know if you could say they're better than any of those three, but for AFC, I think they have the most well-rounded team. Man, the courage, the courage to zag by picking the Patriots, you know, I just have to say this quickly.

I just, listen, Bill, obviously, you are. a Patriots lifer superfan. Nora, you've covered the Patriots for years professionally. I just need to speak on behalf of everyone else in the listening public for a minute and say, this is a terrible place that we've all landed together. I cannot believe. I mean, I can believe it, and I guess that's actually what's most dismaying, right? We can't believe, but simultaneously can, of course, believe it's inevitable.

Now, we're back here already. We had a season of a rebreeve from the Patriots as the inevitable. juggernaut Titan force in the AFC. And now there are a nine-win team number one seed. And they're currently the favorite to make the Super Bowl. And the fucking Patriots Buck Super Bowl is the most likely Super Bowl right now. Now, from a content perspective, that's gold, right? Pat's Packers is great too.

Just FYI. Pat's Packers is incredible. So Pat's cow, I mean, the Cowboys are sort of reeling, but like any almost all all of the NFC matchups with the Patriots are the Aaron Rogers with a chance to win the Super Bowl during like the most tumultuous year, a good quarterback has probably had. That would be pretty good too. You want the Brady matchup though, don't you? You want Belichick Brady in the Super Bowl. That's what you want in your heart or is it what you fear in your soul? I want that for the pick. It's really hard to root against Brady for me. But I would be able to do it in a Pat's

matchup. But Packers would be so organically awesome just to beat the diva Aaron Rogers. Listen, don't blame me and don't blame Nora and don't blame other passments. Why don't you blame oh, I don't know, the Detroit Lions at number seven. Blame the Carolina Panthers at eight. Blame the Denver Broncos at nine. Blame all the teams who

could have jumped the pats at 15 and traded up to 14 with the Jets. Everyone in the league just kind of sat there and Mac Jones fell to Belichick at 15. If that doesn't happen... Fifth quarterback taken in the draft. We're probably trading our second round pick for Garoppolo, who's mediocre.

And that would, then none of this is happening. So the NFL needs to look at the mirror at how this actually played out. Mack Jones, we didn't even trade up for him. We didn't even trade like a fifth round pick to move up. Just sat there, waited for him. Anyway. Well, and I feel a little bit like that about the bills who were supposed to be the team to take over the AFC East.

Now kind of seems, did you guys see what Sean McDermott was saying after the game where it just seemed like, I mean, he said that it didn't have to do with Bill He was kind of blaming the team for sloppy football, lack of execution. All of a sudden, it feels like Buffalo's kind of reeling. And to Bill's point, there's been no one who's sort of cemented themselves as, okay, we're going to be the team to beat in the AFC. And all of a sudden, it's wide open. I know a lot of people have strong feelings about the chiefs pulling it together.

I really cannot get there until I see that offense be what it's supposed to be. nobody has has done the thing that would be necessary to actually keep them down for more than one sub 500 year. I'm sorry to pile on, Mallory, but this is the world we live in. I can assure you that the Ravens will not be in contention for the number one seat at the end of the day. I can assure you of that, at least. I'm crossing them off as well.

Don't even for number one, just in general. It's not a very good team. It's a tough place to be. Who scares you in the EFC? The Ravens didn't scare me before they lost Humphrey. Now it seems insurmountable. I don't see. The injury situation is devastating.

Mallory doesn't think they're going to win another game. No, you can in the NFL, you can 100% pass the point in no return. And I think they did injury-wise. It's just like, what would the team look like with Dobbins all year? You know, like you and Dobbins and Edwards, you think then just on down the line nightmare. I'm not scared of them. Tennessee, if Henry came back in time, it was actually healthy, I think has to be taken seriously. But the chiefs are the one.

You know, they because, and it could go either way, right? I heard Orlovsky talking about, well, the chiefs drop the ball every week and they have all these drops. And, you know, after at some point, that's who you are. On the other hand, like, if they stop shooting themselves in the foot with the way their defense is playing, it's just a good team. And their playoff experience, they have weapons. And, you know, we have a rookie quarterback. Right. Who threw three passes on Monday night.

Belichick doesn't trust him. No, but it's, you know, the rookie quarterback thing is a real thing. It's pretty rare to take a rookie quarterback to the Super Bowl. It happens once a decade. So that would be the fear. It's like we go into a home's matchup. The Chiefs just play well. They play better than they usually play.

And, you know, I still, I love the way we can run the ball. We can rush the passer. We can defend the pass. And Matt can make plays when we need to make plays. It's a good team. Are there Matt Judon jerseys in your home as we speak? I got Nephi Kyle one for his birthday two weeks ago and he actually wore it during the three-pass game, which we're now calling it in our house, the three-pass game. Yeah.

The Judon thing. Judon got hurt at one point. We got nervous. He got up. He was fine. Yeah. That was scary. Yeah.

No, listen, it's the perfect kind of old school bell check team. And I've been saying this for weeks. Everybody thought I was a lunatic. It's so reminiscent of the 010. 3-04 teams. And then if you watch Man in the Arena and you watch like how those teams were built and I can't believe I like

Man in the Arena. I had no interest in spending more time with Brady from a content standpoint. But Manorena is really good. And the way they build that team or it's just like this tough team that doesn't beat itself and it's just like this collective force. And that was

what we saw the other night, right? Belichick's just like, we're going to run the ball down their throats and we're going to beat them. I, that was it. I have to say it pains me, but I totally agree.

I mean, I like all trolling on the pot aside, I don't really think there's any Mack-centric discouragement to take out of that game. It was all just like vintage Belichick statement game, like a true iconic, we can do whatever the fuck we want reminder to the rest of the league. And for that reason,

I think it was incredibly, emboldening for Patriots fans and dismaying for fans of other teams. Again, outside of that maybe like, what does this mean? Do they not trust their rookie quarterback in the elements or in a big game situation? At the end of the day, I think that you could, like, look, it's like sports, right? You can always find a way to spin and look on the other side of any talking point or data point. But even with the MAC trust thing, I think there's a way that you could spin that and that speaks to how confident they are and his ability to, like, handle the narrative and the

pressure because you have to know coming out of a game like that, that this is going to be one of the talking points. Do they trust their rookie quarterback to get it done in a big game that counts? Primetime, all eyes on him. And to not worry about that at all, like, one of my favorite things in a long time, and this is not particularly germane, but is kind of of a piece, was during the Manningcast when Peyton and Eli were talking about how Meg wasn't responding to Peyton's text messages

and like said he didn't look at his phone during the week and all this stuff and it's like he's just not paying attention to the bullshit, right? And I don't mean to go into the straw man sports cliche bucket here but it does really feel like on this seven game win streak in particular you know, they're eight and one since losing to the box. and the media attention and the microscopic nature of that game against the bucks in week four was so intense, right?

So high profile. Eight and one since just feels like they're tuning out all of this horseshit and focusing on trying to figure out the strategy for them, the way that they're going to be able to deploy Judon, Jones, Trent Brown to bolster the line, Jalen Mills, like the one to punch at running back right now. bring in Bolden for the passing downs. Like they've found simultaneously a rhythm and a script. And because it's Belichick and he's going to win coach of the year during this season,

they can tweak in the weirdest, most unconventional way as possible and win that game. So to me, the takeaway from that game is they're feeling it, not they don't trust the offense that they have. And that's- I think you're right, Mel, but I also think Mack Jones has two phones. There's no way he does not look at his self-examination. phone during the week. I also say it was Wednesday to Friday is not that big of a gap.

You know? He looked at a cellular telephone device in between that Wednesday and that Friday. I would stake my life on it. Mack Jones, I just thought of this as Mallory was talking. Brady was like the Belichick son, right? That the son that he had in his first marriage is he was learning how to be a dad, basically. And now he's older and has more wisdom. him and now he's remarried with new wife and he has young kids.

And I was like, I'm really, I really know how to mold my, this new son I have now. And Mack Jones is just like the fact that he didn't talk to the mannings for the mainings cast, I thought was unbelievable. He's the only quarterback was like, no,

I'm good. I don't want to talk to you. He gives these boring press conferences, but he's got this happy smile on his face. And he's just like, if you made him in a lab, this would be the quarterback Belichick would want, right? He's,

he's not like this. crazy, crazy physical specimen, but he's really smart. He gets a ball out fast. His teammates love him. This has been the case since the first day of freaking minicamp. Like his teammates just like him that gravitate to him. And that's like everything Belichick wants. And the fact that the three pass thing where you have to have kind of the ego to be like,

all right, my coach didn't think I could throw in the wind. But he doesn't care. He just, he was, my dad pointed this out to me. He was like so happy they won. He was so happy. Did you see the David Andrews? Did you see David Andrews after the game where he was like, that's the most fun three hours I've ever had in my life?

Like, you win a game like that? Like, that's one of those tipping point games for a season where, and the man in the arena had this where they talked about, there was a Colts game, the second Super Bowl season, when they had the four down stop in Indy. It was first and goal from the one. They stopped them four times. And Willie stopped Edgar and James on the fourth and one.

And that was like the most important game in their season. That was when they were like, all right, we're great now. We can do this. And maybe that Buffalo game was like that. Now watch them lose to, you know, Indianapolis next week. Indeed. Who knows? But yeah, it was a lot of good signs coming out of that game.

And they're pretty healthy, too. That's the other thing. We never look, just consider health enough at this point of the year. And they're really like, as Mallory knows, they're kind of shockingly healthy right now for how physical some of these games have been. Yeah. Well, I think they've had a lot of that during, even in the earlier parts of the season, because there was that sort of weird dynamic where they were losing games, but they kept saying stuff about being a better team than their record, which is very not Patriots stuff to say. But it seemed like they really believed it. It was 01. They did that too. After they lost to the Rams game on the Sunday night. And it was the same thing.

They were like, that game, we're better than this. That game showed us we can compete. Yeah, so I'm with you. Part of it is like, okay, so this is obviously a really extreme example of it because the wind was 100 miles an hour and they threw three times. But they're such a big physical team. And I think football players really care about that stuff, right? Like a football team knows if it can go beat somebody else up basically.

So they get Trent Brown back and they're starting to have these games where like Michael on way new, who was. this revelation from the 2020 draft class, all of a sudden he's sort of out of a job, except when he's a sixth offensive lineman. And then they have the German fullback, who's 260 pounds. Ramandre Stevenson's 230 and is like a bowling ball.

They still, they've lost people, they lost Joe Tuny on the line, but Shaq Mason is one of the best run blocking guards in the NFL. I've got to imagine that they're having, little microcosms of that feeling of this is super fun because they know that they kind of can just run it down somebody's throat and go in and be bigger and more physical and more powerful than other teams. And I think, you know, is it the most efficient way to win football games? Not necessarily, but I think to those guys, it actually means something and it's something

that they really enjoy. And if you have to get past that part in the beginning of the season, where they're really young. They've lost a lot of people on the coaching staff. It's a longer season. You've got a new quarterback who's a rookie. You have to, you know, the first month of the season where they've always sort of played around and figured out what they were going to be good at,

maybe that was close to two months this year, or at least six weeks. It seems like they felt it on some level that they were going to be okay. And I wonder if that kind of has to do with the fact that they're just like a big physical team. and maybe they trusted that. Training wheels on Mac, too, the first month or so. I don't think there's any question.

They were being super-duper careful with him not to get his confidence blown out. And it happened to, the Saints game was his worst game, but they were just really careful. And watching it was really frustrating because it's like, let's open it up.

Let's break out the tight ends. We get the tight ends in the garage. Let's take him for a spin. And, you know, and they just weren't doing it. And then finally, once he got a little more comfortable, hey, the week six game was the key game, because that was just hanging that whole game against a good team.

I think and it kind of gave the game away. And I think that one was where it's like that was when I made my bad because it was like, we're good. We hung with that team. I also think I think to the, I mean, the trust thing is silly. But if you want to prove that Bill Belichick trusts Mack Jones, the fact that he let them,

that he let him throw against Brady. Like that to me was the earliest sign of, okay, at some point, the training wheels will be. come off to some degree on this. Because if in that spot he's like, okay, Mac, I don't think that you're going to lose this game for us. That has to mean something.

I think part of that, though, is like the confidence of the overall build of the team. And this is like, Nora, we talked about, obviously this is an ongoing conversation throughout the season. We talked about this in our rookie QB episode. What feels like 100 years ago already, but in reality was mere weeks ago. The situation, you can't, you can't separate player from, situation, of course, right? But the comfort that comes from the team that is around Mac, both with the ability to balance or go run heavy on offense, but specifically with the turnovers and the

defensive play, right? Like, you're talking about the team that's first in the NFL and point differential. They have a plus 150 point differential. It's astonishing. Their second overall in DVOA, Tampa, of course, first. There we go again on the tram lines toward that inevitable Super Bowl. but the number one scoring defense, number three, total defense in a team that's number three in turnover differential. Compare that to my beloved Ravens, who are third from last in turnover differential of negative eight. The paths are plus 10.

That just gives you the ability simultaneously to be more conservative, right, and only do what is necessary and comfortable, but also to try to take those training wheels off when it feels right because you have the comfort of that defense. I think that's why, as we look ahead, the question is less even what has been the case so far and more what will be necessary against playoff caliber competition. Because whether it's Kansas City in the AFC or any of those potential Super Bowl opponents in the NFC, as good as the defense has been,

you're going to be facing an elite elite quarterback. So are they going to be able to get away with not throwing the ball deep downfield, not throwing the ball often in the postseason? Or is that not a concern. I think they will. Yeah, it'll be interesting because the defense has also kind of had to figure itself out, right? I mean, part of the reason I think Judon's so critical is because the high impact player that they'd had on defense in recent years was Stefan Gilmore. He was not going to be a part of this team. They started initially, they were playing a little bit more man. I think at a certain point they realized the impact player that we have here is on the defensive front. And we're going to focus on getting pressure, play a little bit more zone.

That's going to be sort of, that's going to be the bread and butter. And then they switch it up every week because it's a Belichick defense. The thing that they don't do very much is too high, which is sort of funny because it's like one of the stories of the season is, oh gosh, none of these quarterbacks can deal with two high safeties. Normally they just stick McCordy kind of up there as the center fielder. So it's never, I mean, you never want to say that that Belichick won't just look at an opponent and go, Mahomes is struggling with too high. Let's just come up with a game plan where we do that. Like that's, I mean, look no further than the Rams Super Bowl. They can completely shift

what they want to do on a weekly basis. But it is an interesting wrinkle that the thing that has been sort of build as kryptonite for a lot of the top quarterbacks is not what they typically do, but I do think that they could figure out the version of it that works for them. But they had to do the same thing defensively, I think, as offensively, where they figured out what they were actually good at. The pass rush and the defensive backfielder are like unlocking each other, though, right? I mean, that's all working quite harmoniously right now. Totally.

I think they're really malleable, which is what I like to look for right around now. I like teams that can run the ball when they have to, that can throw when they have to, that can play with the lead, play from behind, that can get stops, can usually win the turnover battle, flip a little bit,

and just have the most options. Because in every playoff game feels different, right? You never know. You might have the game where it's like, the weather fucking sucks. And it's 17 degrees and it's icy, and you just have to, a little bit like what we saw on Monday night.

You might have the game in a don't. against a team that has a hot quarterback and you got to match points with them. I think out of the AFC teams, they're the only team that can play all kind of styles, which I think is their biggest advantage. When you get to the NFC, I think Tampa could absolutely do that. Arizona is the wild card because we, you know, who knows with Kyler? But defensively, they can certainly hang with anybody. And then they do have the ability, especially the way Connors look this year.

they have the ability to, I feel like, play different styles. And then Green Bay is Green Bay. You know, Green Bay has been really good all year. And I think has been pretty resilient pulling games out too. And Rogers has been the best player in the league. He's not going to win the MVP, but he's the best part of the week this year. So I think those, I think that's the top five. And I don't know where Arizona fits in it because I think that's the team I've had the

hardest time trying to figure out. I think they've caught some certain teams on the right week. The 7 and 0 on the road and every win is like by 10 or more is such an impressive stat. But at the same time, there's, I don't know if I trust Cliff. And I don't know if it's because I lost money on him a few times last year. I told Mallory today that I came around that I officially came around on Cliff Kingsbury today. Wow. However.

What was it? It was. Well, it was the fact that he was asked if a player has ever. tattooed his name on their body and he said, not a male. Oh, wow. He's something. If he could be the next bachelor, we'd be all set. All of our interests would collide.

That is my dream. That is my dream scenario. Yeah, so I think we have five teams that I really think that's it for the AFC unless Henry comes back and he's 100%. But we've seen with the foot injuries, like who the hell knows. So you're not remotely scared of the chargers. Oh, God, no. Oh, not at all.

not even a little bit. I don't think that team. I don't see that team at all. I actually think the Bengals are kind of the upside AFC team. Like if you're looking for a long shot, who could shock somebody in round one or two because they'd never have really had their whole team at the same time.

And even this Chargers game, they were missing offensive linemen. But they have two really above average skill guys on top of the QB. It seems like they can move the ball And they need to. And it's been like a really, really, really good fast pressure.

Yeah. I like their defense. It's weird because they got torched by the charges. But I thought they were going to win that game. They were going to come back from 24-0 and then Mixson had that fumble and the game flipped again. But the resilience they showed in that game, I was impressed. So I'm kind of, I think they could win the division.

I know, I know there are on Mowers radar. They're only a game back. I, the Raven schedule the rest of the way. there's not a single guaranteed win on there. Seriously. Well, you have the corpse of Rathusberger's on there, though. I'm old enough to remember when the Ravens lost to Rathlisberger and the Steelers because

it was a handful of days ago. So. Well, he's still covered it for Maldad. I was watching Manor in the arena the third episode. They go through the Steelers. The Steelers kicked the shit out of them in the regular season. The Pats beat them in the playoffs. And they're showing Rathusberger footage from when he was a rookie.

And it, it seems like. It's like looking at photos of some super old actress in the 1950s when they were a bombshell. He's like, he's skinny. He's throwing 50-yard darts. He's just like, you're like, wow, what a specimen. And now he's like this broken down version of himself. I was like alarmed. What he run?

Oh, yeah. He was like, Rothersperger in the mid-2000s was amazing. He was really good. I think, I actually think he's underrated because some of the, Some of the personal stuff, I think just it was the default for any Rathsburger conversation. But in terms of like just him being like this specimen, like the way guys would bounce off him. And it was a little like what Josh Allen is like now, these pass rushers, they would have them and they would just bounce off him. And then he would have four more seconds.

And he had a cannon. He was really good. He's going to make the Hall of Fame. I mean, he's probably like the 10th or 11th best QB of all type. Fascinating. Wow. But now his career is over. And yet it continues for six more weeks.

Just pretty exclusive service is bothering. Look at Mallory. Mallory doesn't even comment about Robespierers. She's like no comment. She's just like making faces. That's the team though. If they had gone and gotten even a C plus quarterback, I actually think they'd be in the mix.

Yeah. I, uh, what one of my favorite weekly traditions is fielding, uh, Rothlessberger slacks or text messages from our cherished colleague Ben Glickman, a devout Steelers fan who I think would genuinely gladly have Mitch you as a starting quarterback right now. It would just be a much, much, much more content person. Oh, yeah.

I said this on one of the last pods I did, but I just can't believe that they still are so bad at evaluating quarterbacks. We have all these new examples just from this year, like Mac falling in 15. Minchu going for a six-round pick. The Carolina trading a second-rounder for Darnold. The Giants thinking Daniel Jones might make it for one more year. Like, there's 20 examples. These teams, nobody knows how to evaluate the only position that matters.

In the NBA, like, nobody is this bad at, like, who's our best player? Oh, it's Joe Schmo over here. Then it's like, no, we'll give them one more year. Like, you just know right away. And in football, it's like, Daniel Jones, year three. Well, we'll see. Maybe he'll put it together this year. It's like, no, we won't.

We watched the first two years. There's no chance. And then you have something like Mitchell who's actually good. Right. Mason Rudolph. For Dwayne Haskins, we'll figure it out. How do you bring back, how is that your backup? Well, we got Haskins and Rudolph.

I don't know. I mean, I think even in the realm of NFL evaluation, that was suspect. What did Haskins have one moment of professionalism in Washington that made anyone think he could be an adult and be the star of a team? Yeah, I don't get it. Not that comes to mind. No. I don't know. This is why Brian Horner is going to be like 48 and still get back up,

backup paycheck stuff. What else do you need for me in the Pats? We're going to get you out on this, Bill. I want to know what will make you feel, what will make you feel happy other than a Super Bowl at the end of the year and feel some degree of Bill has evened the score. post Brady. Oh.

Is it an AFC championship game? Is it? First of all, we're already here. This season was a huge success. Everybody poured dirt on Belichick and it swung so far in such a dumb way. And the reality is the last, the 20 years they had together was because of both of them. There was no like, there's no, this guy gets more credit than the other guy. It was like, it was the best quarterback ever and the best coach ever.

And they were together for 20 years. was what happened. There's no other like who deserves more credit. And I thought Belichick at some point, this is just my theory. Last year's going bad. Cam sucks. It's COVID. Eight guys opt out. And I bet at some point he was probably scouting for this year, even as last year was happening. Like I do feel like, and you think about how they attack free agency, like it does feel like he really put an incredible amount of thought into this because he's a competitive guy. And I think he cares about his place in history. And I think he understood the stakes. And they got lucky. Like, you know, they didn't trade it for back Jones either. You know, they got lucky the Ravens

didn't want to keep Judeon. They got lucky that Ramadre fell to the fourth round. That guy's incredible. That 78 yards he had on Monday night was just incredible. Against 10 man fronts, he gets 78 yards. So, you know, he did a good job. And I think now he's back. And I think for the Pat's fans. Now we have like, at least we can see the future and you know, like, all right, that cam piece was bleak. But now you go, all right, Belichick seems like he's got some time left here. And we have a quarterback again. So at least we're in the mix every year again, which I think is all anyone wanted. But I think it would be a disappointment if they didn't get the one seed. They'd really have to fuck this up now. That, that's the thing I find fascinating.

It went so quickly from, are the Patriots good again to the. they're clearly the one of the two best teams in the AFC. And so it just as quickly went from being competitive and potentially, you know, competing for a playoff berth would be gravy to, they have such a track to actually maintaining that number one seed that is, is failing to get that or going further than that, failing to make the AFC title game or even the Super Bowl. I mean, look at how many times we've been talking about NFC opponents in this pod instead

of AFC opponents. Like, if they don't get to that point, is it a letdown despite what a rapidly developing surprise this has been? Or is it still, this is all bonus bliss. We weren't even supposed to be here this quickly. No way. It's, it's, you have a chance to make the Super Bowl now. Like, you're actually in the driver's seat in the AFC if just take care of business.

It's really, it would be really hard for them to not get the one seat now. They would have to really fuck up a couple games. They're conference records, ridiculous. They have like two less losses. Yeah, they have two less losses than everybody else. So they, I mean, ironically, they could sew it up in the last week against Miami, the team that's been their like sneaky dumb nemesis for. That's their one conference loss.

Right. So, but yeah, no, it's set up and they're relevant again. They own Boston. I mean, this is like, it's the most one-sided it's been. Baseball lockout. Celtics, nobody cares. So I think they're bad. I still think they need to make an AFC championship game before it's truly like silly to talk about who's ahead.

I think it's be an AFC contender, which you could argue that has already been accomplished. I think you have to win a couple playoff games before that's totally checked off. But it's a FC contender and find a quarterback who you would rather have than Jimmy Groplo, which check. check, check. Am I wrong to think if Jimmy doesn't hurt his knee? We're looking at him and talking about him much differently. I don't think he's the same guy. I don't know what it was, but

it may be there's like, I know there's some stuff with the Shan Han offense and you can kind of create a quarterback that looks, Ben So I did a good job today writing about that. Yeah. With cousins. I get it. But I did feel like he had something. I thought there was something a little bit.

different about him. And I don't, I don't feel the same spark when I watch him. But now I've come to accept that I think I was punked. So it's like Noah Centenio in the first kissing booth movie

where you thought maybe he was different, but now you know after the third one. He made Tom Brady nervous and therefore he must have something special. I don't think you're wrong. And then it turned out what was maybe making Tom Brady nervous is that like Bill was kind of

needling him behind the scenes. But oh well, everybody's happy now. Well, Patriots are leading me. Not everybody is not. Now is just absolutely apopactic about all this. Not everyone. Not everyone, folks. But that's fine.

While you guys are talking about your next championship run, I will be just reading, you know, Ravens injury reports to myself and probably spending the bulk of the January stretch rereading this quote from Jameson Hensley's ESPN piece. The Ravens will have 44.3 million of their salary cap on IR, which amounts to 25% of So I'll be spending my time. Enjoy the playoffs. You can be happy because we're in on cliff now. That's true.

Instead of a second guest, you should replay Mallory's seven-minute monologue about why Lamar was the mid-season MVP. Why are you calling it my seven-minute monologue? He was Nora's pick too. I don't remember a monologue for Mora. You were like, yours was written by Aaron Sorkin. I mean, it's like Aaron Sorkin presents Mallory's monologue about the Lamar MVP.

I texted immediately. I was power walking around the disgusting streets of L.A. listening to it. I was laughing. I was like, wow, this is one of the great jinxes I've ever heard in my life. And I think you played Miami like four hours later. Yeah, it was my dad was visiting his first time seeing my dad in 29 months. Our first time watching a Ravens game together in years,

right on the heels of the midseason MVP conversation. And, you know, they haven't really looked like a particularly capable football team since. So I still remain cautiously hopeful, but it's going to be tough. It's going to be tough. There's always next year. And just for the record,

I'm not guaranteeing anything. I just like that. There's always seven teams that can win the Super Bowl every year. And at least the Pat's got it in that circle, right? We have the five we mentioned, probably Dallas. And then I think one team that probably hasn't emerged yet.

I don't, I'm out on the Rams. Maybe it's like somebody weird, like the Bengals. I'm still in on the Rams. I'm not out. I'm out. I don't see it. I don't think they're tough enough.

I think it's one of those teams that, oh, we're running up on Jacksonville, but I think you can punch them right in the face. I think they're one of those like, I just think you can, they don't have a running game at all. I mean, Sony Michelle, come on. One receiver. They're relying on Odell. Stafford looks like he's 48 years old all of a sudden.

I'm not I'm not trust that team at all. So you go through the NFC and it's really three teams. I would keep your eye on Cincy though. Something in that game on Sunday I liked. Anyway, I'm going to leave you in that. I was really excited about them and then and then they lost. Well, I'm kind of off the sense. Peros Pinky was like hanging off.

So we got to we got to factor that into. Here's my question before I go. What Taylor Swift song are the 2021 Patriots? Oh, this could be a social breakout. Okay. Nathan would have already gotten this. Nathan would have just made something up. Nathan would have, like, chosen a weird song.

The 2021 Patriots are treacherous. Okay, explain. It's a song from Red. Yeah. So it's kind of a throwback at this point. Yeah. But it's a song that's really, really, really good. And it builds over the course of, it's a kind of long song.

takes a while to get there. And then it's just, like, beating you over the head with all of these, like, big chords. And it's awesome. Hmm. Treacherous. I like it. And it's about getting back into the scene after the difficult end of a relationship. And you're sort of trying to figure out, like, do I like this?

Is this good? I'm a little nervous. Maybe I have a crush. Maybe I'm not sure. What's the future going to hold? Bam. 2021 Patriots. Fantastic.

I adore you both. It was great seeing you. Thanks for having me on. Great to be with you, Bill. Thank you. Thank you. Can't believe you didn't ask me what Marvel movie the Patriots are,

but that's fine. Next time. Wait. Mallory, what Marvel movie are the Patriots? Of recent ones this year, phase four, present day. I guess I would have to go with Eternals,

you know? Oh, that movie wasn't even good. How dare you? Come on. I don't know anything about any of this. I don't know. thousand year old space gods. No, I like treacherous.

Tretcher's is better. All right. Bye. Thanks for a be on. Thanks, guys. This has been the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Prince,

I'm Nora Princiotti. She's Mallory Rubin. He was Bill Simmons. Ben Solac, Stephen Ruiz, and Kaelin Jones will be coming up next on this feed, previewing the week 13 games this Friday. I'll be back Sunday night with Kevin Clark, Solac and Ruiz to break down all of the week 13.

action. Mallory will be back on the ringerverse feed with Joanna Robinson this Friday to break down Hawkeyes' fourth episode. You can, of course, listen to Bill and Sal on the Bill Simmons podcast on Sunday night. Our thanks, as always, to production assistant Isaiah Blakely for producing this episode and to Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.