The Ringer NFL Show - Black Monday in the NFL Results in Six Head Coach Openings. Now What?

Episode Date: January 6, 2026

Sheil is joined by Pat Daugherty from NBC Sports to analyze some of the administrative and coaching changes currently being implemented around the NFL and shine a light on a few of the big names who are trying to fill those empty spots. (00:00) Black Monday in the NFL(5:09) Atlanta Falcons(9:23) Arizona Cardinals(13:49) Cleveland Browns(19:33) New York Giants(23:38) Tennessee Titans(26:36) Greg Olsen The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Pat DaughertyProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Stefano SanchezSocial: Kiera GivensProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Sheila Kapadia, a wild week already in the NFL with coach firings all over the place, which GMs are staying, which GMs are going. A lot of stuff happening right now. Six coach openings around the NFL. So did these teams make good decisions? Did they make bad decisions? Where do they go from here to talk about it all? We've got my friend Pat Dardy from NBC Sports Love talking about these coaching.

situations with Pat. Let's take a break. We come back with Pat Darny. The Ringer NFL show is presented by Fandul. FanDul's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the Fandul app or head to fandul.com slash ringer NFL to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Halt.com. Call 1-88-7-8-8-7-7. Or visit CCPpG.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, welcome back to the Ringer NFL show here with

Pat from NBC Sports. Pat, I like having you on because I find that so much of the coaching conversation this time of year, I'm going like, wait a minute, it sounds like that media member might be pretty friendly with that coach because why are they saying this thing about coach ex. So you and I, we don't have friends. We're each other's, maybe only friends. And so we can talk about these coaches freely. We can. And yeah, no one was leaking to me that they think so-and-so is leaning

safe. There was a lot of leaning safe over the weekend that turned out to be very much not safe on Monday. Yeah, no doubt about us. Yeah, so that's where we are. Now, coaches that have been fired as of this recording, Rahim Morris of the Falcons, Kevin Stefansky of the Browns,

Jonathan Gannon of the Cardinals, and Pete Carol of the Raiders. So you throw those four, we're in with Brian Dayball with the Giants and Brian Callahan of the Titans. We have six openings, Pat, Atlanta, Cleveland, Arizona, Vegas, the Giants and the Titans. I wanted to start with the Falcons because like Arthur Blank had this one queued up. His PR team was all over. It was like Sunday night. Get this out there.

They're firing both Rahid Morris and Terry Fontano after just. I mean, Fontenow, I'm sure he's a nice guy. Actually, I don't know. He may or may not be a nice guy. I don't know him at all, but this was an all-time bad run. You know, seven or eight wins in five straight seasons with two different head coaches. They had four top ten picks that you already have used their 2026 first rounder on last year's draft. They signed Kirk Cousins for $100 million, and they still somehow finished eight and nine.

So that's the GM. And then Rahim Morris, I'm holding out like this much hope. I'm holding my fingers. They're like, what, an inch apart that maybe if he got an opportunity, there's like a good coach in there somewhere, like a CEO type head coach. But I think it needs to be in a place where they're structure, where they're helping him with like, hey, game management, Rahim, you have been awful at this.

Listen to this guy in your headset, that kind of thing. And now it sounds like Matt Ryan is going to be their president, and he's going to be in charge of hiring the coach and the GM. So how should Falcons fans feel about this change right now? Well, there's so much going on. Matt Ryan, not only wants to be. the team president. He also wants to remain a competitor to you. He apparently

does not want to lose his media job or the early reports. He wants to continue working. Oh, really? I didn't see that. Wow. I'm not sure how that is supposed to work. Terry Fontonaut, too, it's kind of funny. Like, one of his Galaxy Brain ideas finally worked. Like James Pierce looks like to be maybe, you know, a lynchpin edge rusher

you could build her out. It was at such a heavy cost. You would like to do that out using two first round picks when he could have probably had him for his one first round pick with slightly better team management. But, just so many different moving parts with the Falcons that it's pretty easy to agree with the idea of a reset. But I will say, I think firing Rahim was probably the right move,

but it was like the least right of the right moves. You know, this go-around where I feel like he gets the big ideas right on defense. This was kind of a stayaway defense for stretches of 2025. But as you pointed out, he's so bad at the game management and like the little things that constantly came back to bite him. That's the kind of thing that can usually be fixed, though. I mean, even Andy Reid kind of cleaned up that stuff a little bit over the years in Kansas City. I feel like that can be fixed.

The players love Rahim Morris. Maybe more than almost any head coach in the NFL. I feel like you hear players speak with reverence on Rahim Morris. So Rahim, maybe he gets a third chance that could work out, but you look at the Atlanta Falcons, it would be pretty difficult to argue if some sort of reset isn't necessary. And yeah, Morris at least clears the bar of like it seems like people like him and he's a nice person, which, listen, if you've met NFL coaches, like sometimes you don't clear that point. No.

You know, they come in thinking they're God's gift and you're just like, this guy is miserable to be around. They're so arrogant and they're not good at their jobs and they think they know it also. I don't think he's got that. That's why, again, the resume is not good. He's had two stands. They have not been good. I'm curious to see if he ends up getting another chance or not. I do think, like they have some talent, you know, when we're looking at these six openings, it's like you mentioned it.

And they might have got some. The pass rush price was crazy for James Pierce Jr. But they got some pass rush there. They've got Drake London. They've got Bejan Robinson. They've got some stuff on the offensive line. So it's not, the cupboard's not completely bare. And Pat, they might take eight wins to win the division next year.

That's the other thing. You're in the NFC South. So the bar is not that high to clear. Now, I did want to ask you about this. The Falcons press release, you know, they make the big announcement. It's like announcement from our chairman and owner, Arthur Blank. And we, you know, we've all seen Arthur Blank seems. like a character. They are hiring two separate firms, okay, ZRG partners for the head coaching search

and sportsology group for the GM search. I did not make up those names, but these feel like the biggest scams in all of professional sports, and I feel like I want a piece of them. I mean, I can't imagine that these firms are helpful at all. I did a little research for you, Pat. ZRG partners, ready for this? Their website. In a world moving faster than, ever, leadership, scale, and transformation demand more than a placement. They demand a partner and their core values, Pat. Partnership, people, performance. Tell me that doesn't sound like a made-up company. Sounds very good to me. I don't see. Transformation, I'm all about that. And the scam may be in college football, where there's what, 130, 140 division one teams, but the NFL, it's particularly

absurd because how many like reasonably how many actual people are qualified for these jobs in the entire country, 40 or 50 at any given moment like people who are not currently GMs, the pool of prospective GMs is probably 40 to 50 people and like

if you're part of an NFL front office, you're an NFL owner and you kind of can't identify those people yourself maybe that's a sign you shouldn't even be owning or running the team and it just does not you're not finding like we need a new CEO to turn around the Ford Motor company, you know, where you're picking from, you know, every company in America.

There's 32 places where reasonably you're going to find your next GM. I sort of feel like you should be able to do that with the help of not only two search firms. You know, you shouldn't even need one. I feel like you should be able to handle that yourself if you're running. Two is hilarious. They have one for the coach and one for the GM. I looked up the other one, Sportsology Group, maximizing growth of elite sporting organizations,

Pat. So that's the motto there. And, you know, they had to think for testimonial. So I thought, all right, they're probably going to be bragging about it. You know, it's like me. Like I was totally wrong about the Seahawks, but I said the Seahawks could have the best defense in the NFL. I'm like, so if anyone asked me, hey, what did you think about the Seahawks preseason? I thought they would have the best defense in the NFL.

Don't listen to any of my other takes. I thought that's what Sportsology Group would do, you know? Maybe you brag about a couple things in here. You click on the testimonials. There's one testimonial from LAFC team president, Tom Penn. That's it. You know, they got one testimonial. I start Googling. There's a Reddit thread for U.S. someone said U.S. soccer, you know,

a Reddit thread says the Sportsology Group is the consulting firm responsible for some of the worst hires in MLS history. So I don't listen. I can't tell you that might not be the best source or not. That might be a better source, though, than some of these hiring firms. So good luck, Atlanta Falcons. Matt Ryan seems like somebody that people like, he knows the league. Well, he had a good career. I don't know if he's trying to do the media thing too. That might not be the best sign. But I will say this, Pat, at least they went clean break, hire a coach in the GM who are aligned because some of these other teams, they did not do that, which brings us to our next one. Jonathan Gannon, the Cardinals, which was a little surprising because to your point,

the insiders were telling us, no, leaning safe. Gannon was telling reporters. He was. I feel good. Yeah. And Jonathan Gannon was wrong because he's out. Pat, I'm seeing a lot of different takes on Jonathan Gannon. So I want yours because mine is pretty strong in one direction, but maybe you can talk me in the other direction.

What did you think about the Cardinals firing Jonathan Gannon? Well, Gannon fired after his biggest accomplishment, which was successfully leaking to so many different people that he was not going to be fired. And so he really executed that plan to perfection. And then unfortunately, still didn't get the result that he was hoping for. They had to do it. And this is a little weird because even though we had, you know, maybe the ugliest incident of the entire season for any coach, you know, hitting Amari Di Mercado,

the players generally seem to like him. I was surprised by how strong Kyler Murray's statement in support of Jonathan Gannon was, but what problem that Jonathan Gannon solved during his three years in Arizona? You cannot point to one thing that really got better. The defense was pretty bad in 2023. It got better in 2024. It needed to be like almost see-haw. level strength of the team for Jonathan Gannon to maintain his job in 2025, and it said it just

got worse. And in today's game, you can be a defensive-minded head coach. I think most of us would agree it's better to have an offensive-minded head coach, someone who's actually calling the plays, you know, who dictates the action. You can be a defensive-minded head coach, though, but you've got to fully lock down that side of the ball. Like Mike McDonald in Seattle, no one could even come close to credibly making the argument. Jonathan Gannon had did that. I think it was going in reverse. And if he's not achieving that as a defensive-minded head coach, you just can't stick around.

You have to be a truly elite play caller in your side of the ball if your defense instead of offense. And Jonathan Gannon wasn't that. And you just cannot survive that if you're not an offensive play caller as a head coach. Yeah, I hadn't thought of that comparison with McDonald, but it's a great one. I mean, he's in his second season. And I know the players are different and the talent and the organization is different, but it's like defensive-minded head coach in year two has the best.

best defense in the NFL, finished 14 and 3, is the one seed. Sam Darnold versus Kyler Murray just on like a, you know, talent level. I don't, you know, it's not like, oh, man, you guys. Yeah, it's very close. I would put them probably in the same tier. And so I'm, I've been looking at some of the Gannon coverage today. I feel like he must have a spell on people. I don't know if he can do like voodoo or what or media voices have just become very easy to manipulate Pat because I'm looking at the resume. three years in had a 294 winning percentage. 207 coaches have coached at least 50 games in the NFL.

Do you know where a 294 winning percentage ranks? Bottom four or five, it's got... 200th. Yeah. You go to these Wikipedia's like head coaching record for so-and-so, you almost never see it below 300. So to be below 300 is quite an accomplishment. Remember, he cost the Cardinals draft capital

because he couldn't even accept the job. Correct. You remember that? It's right. I forgot about. So we cost some draft capital. They lose at a historic rate. He strikes the player, whatever, shove the player, whatever it was, makes contact with

a player where his own organization has to fine him $100,000. He's a defensive coach who, I will say they had some moments. They rank 32nd in defensive success rate during his tenure. Now, that's just one stat, but that is a stat that is not great. So I think there's absolutely no reason to keep Jonathan Gannon. I think they're kind of a lost puppy dog franchise who people don't really care about. So it's like, all right, who cares, really?

But they have bad ownership. No idea what they're doing at QB here with Kyler Murray. They're keeping the GM, Montiason, Fort. They have some talent at the premium positions, you know, left tackle, maybe Marvin Harrison Jr. If you think his best days are ahead of him, Trey McBride. So I think maybe they look for a younger,

offensive-minded head coach, see if you can strike gold. But, man, in that division, they are just so outclassed by the other three teams that I don't know how confident you can be in the Cardinals getting this right. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. I want to talk about Kevin Stefansky. I want to talk about some of the other news around the NFL.

All right. We're back on the ringer NFL. All right. Cleveland Browns, Pat, they're up next. Kevin Stefansky gone. Andrew Barry stays. How do you feel about this move for the Cleveland Browns? Well, this is,

Stafansky, I think he should be one of the 32 head coaches in the NFL. You know, there's only 32 of these jobs the entire world. I doubt there are 32 people better at it than Kevin Stafansky right now, but he just kind of seemed over it. You know, he refired himself as play caller back-to-back seasons. That was like an annual tradition, you know, that was like, oh, it's the holiday season? Oh, Staphansky fired himself his play caller again.

This had the feeling of yet another rock bottom for the Cleveland Browns organization. I think a mutual parting of ways. Like that's so often, like a euphemism. I think this could have been a situation where both sides could have mutually agreed it was best to move on. That kind of happened, but I don't understand why Andrew Barry is remaining on the job.

And he's been there a long time. He's overseen. I never know what the Browns, like, who's truly responsible for these awful decisions that they're making. I kind of assume it's not Kevin Stefanski. You know, I have no idea how much Andrew Barry is being influenced, being pushed.

by Jimmy Haslam, but I don't understand why after 3 and 14, after bottoming out, kind of just everywhere, other than the pass rush, why they wouldn't just start anew again? You know, they have an extra first round pick this year. It just seemed like a good time for the Browns to blow it all up yet again. And it's just like another half measure. Just so many half measures for the Cleveland Browns, it feels like the past 10 years. And looking for like miracle cures, like quick fixes.

They kind of got one. I mean, Kevin Zofansky is, he's really the only good hire they've made since being reincarnated in 1999. And it kind of feels like they're throwing away the one good thing that happened to them. I just don't think he wanted to be there anymore. I think they need change just for change's sake. But then they only went halfway. They should have fired Andrew Berry to and truly started over. The idea of Andrew Barry has always seemed like reasonable.

You know, like you hear him talk. And it's like, oh, he, you know, analytics background and worked with the Eagles under Howie Roseman. and people seem to like him. The track record is atrocious. I mean, their roster sucks. They made the worst trade in NFL franchise history. They signed the worst contract in NFL history. And the team is just bad year after year after year.

So, you know, maybe this is one where it's like, all right, does the owner like you? That's kind of what a lot of these things come down to. And it seems like the owner's probably like, yeah, I kind of like him. You see, you know, he's a smart guy. He's got a good background. This didn't work out, but what am I going to go find somebody else who's better than him? comfortable with him. He talks to me. He tells me what's going on. That thing, that type of stuff plays a role a lot with a lot of this stuff. With Tafansky, I mostly agree with you,

but I'm going to give a little bit of a zag here, Pat. I think he's a good coach. I think he's worthy of a second chance. Adam Schaefter's reporting that the Falcons, Giants, and Titans are all expected to talk to him. And I think that's reasonable. If I'm a fan of those teams, I say, I wouldn't be upset if Kevin Stafansky was that coach. At the same time, they were 8 and 20, the last two years. He's at a losing record in four of his six seasons. And kind of what we talked about with Gannon, like,

Stefansky is an offensive-minded head coach. They finished 32nd and offensive DVOA in back-to-back years. Now, again, I know the quarterback situation hasn't been good. 32nd. I mean, that's bad. You literally can't be worse. There's been other coaches.

Like, look at Kevin O'Connell this year. Like, there have been coaches who have had bad quarterback situations, and they haven't finished 30 seconds. So again, I think there's a good coach in there. We've seen it in a couple of these years. But I also think people are maybe getting a little bit carried away. Like I don't think it was done dirty.

I mean, you go 8 and 26 and back-to-back seasons, and the side of the ball that you're supposed to be an expert on sucks, you're probably going to get fired. That's just how it goes. Two quick thoughts for me there. You're mighty made my favorite Homer Simpson quote where everything looks bad if you remember it, you know, laying out just what happened with Kevin's DeFancy

the past two years. And I think him being like such a hot retread candidate kind of just speaks to what a truly weak crop of head coaching candidates this is. It kind of just highlights how strong the overall head coaching group is. Right now, teams have gotten so much better at making these hires where they have not done retread hires. And they've gotten so good at pinpointing the coaching trees. They should be plucking new head coaches from that the overall state of been

about head coaching is probably as good as it's ever been. and that's how you too, you look at the available candidates. This is not very good right now because the teams have actually gotten way more efficient the past decade at hiring and identifying these people. And it's just right now, it's just like almost like they need to wait

for the next Sean McVeer, Kyle Shanahan to start populating the coaching tree with new candidates again. That's interesting. I haven't heard anyone have that take that like the state of NFL coaching is really good right now. But I think it's a good take, Pat, because I mean, you look at last year, it seems like teams did really well. Ben Johnson, Mike Rable, Liam Cohen. I mean, those are three of the best coaching jobs. And now it's only one year, but those have been three of the best coaching jobs in the NFL. And it does really stand out when you get like a Brian Callahan. Whereas maybe when you and I, you know, 20 years ago, we're making fun of coaches. Like there were a lot more opportunities to just be like, oh my gosh, this guy just completely in over his head where now you get a Brian Callahan and you're like, all right, this is like, this is really, really bad. They cannot go on.

with this guy. So all right, I'm going to think about that take a little bit more, that the state of NFL coaching is maybe better than it's ever been here. All right, last things I want to finish up on here. The Giants are keeping Joe Shane. Pat, this was, you know, they reiterated because they said they were going to keep Joe Shane. And then there were reports that like, I don't know if they're going to keep Joe Shane. And then the season ends and they're like, no, no, this isn't like a joke. We actually are keeping this GM whose team just went three and 14, who's going to So I'm 13 and 38 over the past three seasons. Not only are we keeping him, but he is going to lead our search for a new head coach.

And this is such a prime example of why bad teams stay bad. Like, what does this boil down to? You are now hiring a coach with the GM who's going to be in full job preservation mode. He's going to be making decisions. How do I keep my job? Who looks like he's not very good at his job in the first place. why would any head coach want to say, oh, yeah, let me go sign up for that. Why would you not just start a new align the head coach with the GM, tell them, hey, you're in this

together, here's who has final say on personnel matters, but this is a collaboration. Don't be backstabbing each other. If one of you gets fired, you're both going to get fired here. We haven't had success for a decade. We've been one of the worst franchises in the NFL. This was the most simple decision. I think almost any franchise in the NFL could have made. With that, see you, Joe Shane.

Let's start on you. Let's interview a bunch of GMs, interview a bunch of head coaches. Let's say who can work together and let's try to get this thing right. Instead, they are making the mistake over and over again. And we just have to continue to talk about the Giants as a train wreck franchise. This isn't the classy franchise. This isn't the Tom Coughlin Giants. This isn't the team from the Parcells there.

No, this era of Giants football is a disgrace. and it's going to continue to be a disgrace. The only charitable reading and like charitable pushback I could make because I fully agree with you. He went from nine wins to six wins to three. I then increased to four this year, so I guess there is a little progress there. But if you want to make, like give him the benefit of the doubt to Joe Shane,

you could say it's quote unquote only four years. Like Jason Light was bad for six or seven years. Then look what happened. He's one of the better GMs in the league. And team building, these drafting, there's so much randomness. there's so much luck. There's a lot of bad luck. Every GM in the league has one ultimate question they have to answer.

Who's the quarterback? Joe Shane can at least plausibly say for a year or two, he's answered that question. We have someone to build around. So we don't like a lot of the little things he's done. But, you know, it's hard to get the little things right when you don't have the big thing settled. And now in theory, they have the big thing settled.

So I could see how the Giants maybe talk themselves into giving one more year here. But I just agree that even though they have the quarterback in Jackson Dart, when you bring in the new coach and the GMs, like clearly a year-to-year proposition, that's just a power struggle waiting to happen. It's not good team building. It's not a good way to run a team.

And like, every once in a while you get the Ryan Poles outcome because this was the Bears last year. Like Ryan Poles probably should have been fired. They let him make the hire. It's worked really well for him. But, you know, the Bears, they had a soft schedule this year. They go seven and ten next year. what's stopping Ben Johnson from getting in the ownership's ear and me like,

listen, I should be running the team. I should have personnel powers. So it's kind of like even if you get a good outcome, this just sets up a power. I've never liked this because the way it sets up power struggles. Yeah. I do not think the Giants did the right thing by keeping Joshy. And that's how the NFL works.

It's politics. It's power struggles. It's job preservation. I love that you outline the Bears thing. And I think most people would say the Bears have been successful this year because Ben Johnson's done a really, good job over Ryan Poles has done a really good job. So you're right. If things start going south, I don't think it's going to be like, well, Ben Johnson's not doing a good job anymore.

It's going to be, all right. Well, Ben Johnson's going to be like, hey, I didn't pick this player and this player and this player. They were all here before I even got here. So I don't understand what the Giants are doing there. All right. Last thing for you, because we don't have to talk about the Raiders. We talked about Pete Carroll before we can get to that in the future. the Titans head coach interview requests here, Pat, to go to your point about this candidate pool, per the athletic, Matt Nagy, Vance Joseph, Steve Spagnolo, and Luana Rumo. I can't remember reading one of these reports about head coaching candidates that a team is interviewing and being less underwhelmed.

And I'm not joining me mean to any of those people. I will say this. Matt Nagy gets my Mike McCarthy award for best PR job for a potential head coaching candidate you know like when Mike McCarthy was available it was like oh my goodness

there's going to be bidding worse like teams might fire their head coaches to get their hands on Mike McCarthy he's been hanging out at pro football focus and he's been doing X, Y and Z this guy's going to come in and he did me won a lot of games with the Cowboys, I get that

but like I can't imagine being less excited about my team hiring a coach than Matt Nagy, unless you're just like, I want mediocrity. Like, I want to finish eight and nine next year. He won't be the worst coach in the league. He won't be the worst coach in the league. But now everywhere I look, people are like, Matt Nagy, deserves a shot, you know?

His tenure with the Bears wasn't that bad. He's been with the chiefs. I'm like, we just have short mates your Homer Simpson quote again. Yeah, people just forget, I guess what Matt Nagy was like. Am I wrong about any of this? Well, first off, don't sell him short. He could easily be the worst coach in the league again. That's true.

If he gets the Titans job. If he works at it, yeah. I think it serves to highlight my other point that the state of coaching is generally very strong because you just don't see groups of candidates like this anymore. Because, you know, 10 years ago used to be like, our first call is going to be Jack Del Rio. Like, we got to call Jack Del Rio, you know, and you just don't see that anymore, except for apparently the 2025 Tennessee Titans. And a lot of times, even when you get these groups full of retreads, you know, they do mix in,

like one or two fresh names, not a single fresh name here. And you're talking about Matt Nagy having good. good PR run for him, like, oh, yeah, there could be a bidding war over Matt Nagy. One reason you don't give the Titans the benefit of the doubt on their head coaching search, who was the last guy that really did kind of have a bidding war after being fired. It was Mike Rabel, who was fired by the Titans. It's like they fired the guy that teams actually wanted. Now they're going after the guy.

There's probably manufacturing interest. Talk about a franchise constantly beset by power struggles. The Titans really need something to go right. It does not look like it's going to happen with this group of head coaching candidates. They're a great example of that. It's like they go head coach, GM, GM, head coach, head coach, head coach, and now their GM is Borgonzi from the Chiefs, knows Matt Nagy. Guess who might get the job for the Titans? Is that the best candidate possible?

Are you doing a wide search? He is a first group, I'll say. He probably is the best candidate of this group. Maybe. I mean, it's, yeah, it is a bad, bad group of head coaches. I would be, now, all right, let's finish with this. My outside the box idea. This is not Jack Del Rio.

This is the guy I would actually make a call on and he would be near the top of my list. I've made the case on this podcast before. I haven't gotten your take on it. I would call Greg Olson, Pat. And people might make fun of me and say, you're hiring a broadcaster. He has a coach in the NFL.

I'm sorry. I would rather take a shot on Greg Olson than the names I just mentioned here. For the reasons I gave out before, I think he will have goodwill with players. His dad's a head coach. he's been in the football culture his whole life. He's been in the NFL.

He was a good player. He's analytically minded. He's attuned to the trends in the NFL. All those things put him ahead of like all these other guys we're mentioning here. Tell me if you think that's a stupid idea or not. Well, I thought it was dumb when at first I was singing O L S-O-N and O-L-S. Raiders O-C. Yeah.

You're like, Shields really, wow. I haven't heard that name in a while. Shields digging deep, but I must have missed something. I like it because. the box, they went outside the box for a long time, but now they've picked over outside the box too. There's not a hot shanny guy. There's not a hot McVeigh guy.

And too, this group of retreads is just too warmed over. You go to the college ranks maybe. But the NFL, yeah, like Major League Baseball will do this where they'll go like all the way outside the box to make their next tire. That's harder to do in football. I really do think this is a year that calls for that kind of thing. I have no idea of Greg Olson will be interested in that. But when you see names like Matt Nagy, Vance Joseph, Steve Spagnola, you should be having

that mind say, you know what? Maybe instead of just doing what we're supposed to do, quote unquote, we need to really get creative. And I think it's a perfect year to make a risky hire like that. Because at the end of the day, what are you really going to lose? And I actually think I just talked myself into your very outside the box idea. There you go. I think there are going to be crazy reports in the weeks ahead, to your point, where all of a sudden

it's going to be like, this person's getting a head coaching job, interview and you're like, wait, who is that? You're Googling. Wait, who is this person? Never heard of them before, but that could make it exciting. I would rather learn about some of those names than some of the ones we're hearing right now. All right, his name is Pat Dardy.

Always fun talking coaches with him. Check out his work at NBC Sports. No hurry up today. We had too much head coaching news to get to. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Kira Givens on social. Stefano Sanchez on video editing and additional production supervision by

Connor and Evans and Arjuna, Ram Gopal. My name is Sheila Capadio. We will be back tomorrow on the Ringer NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-888-78-9-77-7-7-7 or visit CCPGGGop.org in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

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