The Ringer NFL Show - Brandon Aiyuk Trade Buzz and MVP Predictions for the 2024 Season

Episode Date: August 10, 2024

Sheil, Diante, and Nora start with their thoughts on the Olympics, then dive into Brandon Aiyuk’s potential trade and their thoughts on the teams he is interested in (03:33). Then, they share their MVP predictions for a non-quarterback (21:54), a sleeper (32:17), their runner-ups (44:04), and, finally, their top picks (54:50). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Diante Lee, and Nora Princiotti Producer: Olivia Crerie and Isaiah Blakely Social: Kiera Givens Additional Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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To the Ringer NFL show. Sheal Kapati here with Nora Prenziotti. and Deante Lee. I'm going to say I'm a little wired. I just watched some USA men's basketball. And like I felt like a kid again in the fourth quarter of that game. So I feel like I'm going to have a little extra pep in my step today. We got a couple topics.

The patriotism. I know. It's through your blood. I should have really just draped myself in the American flag for this for social. Yeah. And I say this is why I need someone advising me on such matters. It is like a really interesting thing because the patriot, the sort of like the pageantry of the NFL.

When they bring those big flags out onto football fields, I'm so stone cold. Like, nothing is happening. Nothing is registering. I'm like, treat your players better. It's like, whatever. Yeah, like big corporation, boo! And then it's as soon as we're playing against France or like Slovakia or whatever, I'm like, USA!

It's like the craziest phenomenon. I don't know how they do it, but I'm all in. There you go. It's a transformation. Deont, are you feeling patriotic today? How are you doing, my friend? I am wearing my NBA basketball shirt in tribute in tribute for the game that they just played. And I would say I echo your guys as sentiments.

I would say it comes out of me most in like swimming and track and field. I don't know why it evokes such. I don't know why it evokes that reaction for me. And I would say like women's gymnastics as well. Like I get really bought in in a way that I feel is like it's almost something I think I need to evaluate myself because I'm not typically a very like emotionally invested fan. but something about like the 400 final from yesterday watching a 100 final you know from earlier this week i get really really pumped for all that and like if i could hang a katie lodecki poster behind me i certainly would so yeah i love it i love it the olympics is a one time where i actually

do care about our colors and representing all this stuff and being so gung-ho for the old red white and blue yeah it's fun it's fun to like feel like that again i've not been include into that at all. Is that happening? So it is teed up to happen in 2028, if I remember, right? Okay, it's not exactly sure. It's not this one. No. Shows what I know. Like, I don't know just thinking. I haven't heard anything about that. So one of the things that I'm really fascinated with, like with three on three basketball at the Olympics this year, there are a lot of guidelines that really made it difficult for former pros or current pros to participate on the American side. I'm really interested to see how they set up the guidelines for flag football because you could

send, I mean, like, C-tier, the replacement for pro-war replacements out there. And we would probably wipe the floor with most teams, I would imagine, on average. So I'm really fascinated to see what the participation is like, if there's even interest at all from pros and kind of how the NFL handles that. That's going to be a really interesting thing to think about. That feels like a June, uh, 20, 25 dead period, ringer NFL show. Let's draft some flag football teams for the Olympics in LA. But that's not what we're going to do today because we got, I mean, I feel like this is the first time for me.

I know about you. I feel like his first time, I'm going on the record with some takes today. You know, we're going to do some MVP talk in the second segment of this show that's going to be fun. We're going to talk about who we think's going to win. Actually win the MVP, our runner up, our sleeper, and our non-quarterback pick for MVP. So this is like, all right, seasons a month away, get some takes out there. Who do you think is going to have a monster's? season. But before we do that, we got to get to the biggest story in the NFL, even though

nothing has really happened with the situation as we record this. And that's Brandon Ayyuk. I mean, for it to be this close to week one, and for us to not know, a top 15 receiver in the NFL who's in his prime age 26 season playing for one of these Super Bowl favorites, where he's going to be playing when week one comes around, I mean, that that is a monster story, even though, again, no trade has been made. So here's where we stand as of this recording. And this is from Diana Rossini of the athletic. She says the Steelers are engaged in talks with the 49ers.

The 49ers have not been satisfied with the Steelers' offers and want a wide receiver back in return if possible. Now, she clarified and said they are open to players at other positions. So this thing has taken a wild turn this week, where it went from 49ers aren't trading him to no, no, 49ers are willing to listen to offers. Patriots get involved. He doesn't want to play for the Patriots reportedly. And now the Steelers look like the favorites if he does get dealt.

Deonté, let's start with you because you and I did a pot. It was probably three weeks ago when it was first. We were both like, no, I don't think he's either. They're not going to trade him. And now it seems like it's changed a little bit. What do you make of the events of this week and where this thing might. be headed. My first thought this morning, and I probably started feeling this way yesterday as well, when it seemed like some of the Steelers news really started picking up, was that I was just like,

why are we here in the beginning of August? I am just so perplexed. If this is what the order of events was going to be, how John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan could not have predicted this being where they were going to land and why they went through the entire offseason, I guess pretending or posturing as though they were going to get this worked out or not aggressively seeking out the best trade offer before, you know, training camp opened up late July. So that's the thing I've really had a tough time with. There was all the draft reports and then they come out and really plant the flag like, no, we're not trading any of our receiving core. We want to keep these guys together and take another run, which I think is smart. And then you have obviously Brandon Ayuk's request to

open up training camp and San Francisco, I think, kind of held like a staunch stance, right? No, you're our guy. We have team control. We're going to try to work out the contract. but let's let this take our time. We've obviously gone late with other contract negotiations before. And now I'm looking at two weeks later, a week and a half later, and I don't know what changed in terms of their dynamic in the negotiation. And then you hear what the asking price may be, whether it's a receiver back or multiple first round picks.

And it's the kind of thing that makes you think like, what exactly is there to be gained on either side right now? Like what are the goals out of this? I'm so confused. I would like to see him if he does get traded. Go to the Steelers. I think that that's something interesting for that offense, but I think the real answer is he needs to stay and San Francisco should pay up. I just don't.

I keep going in this like circular logic of trying to figure out why we are, where we are. And I don't know if I have an answer for that right now. What do you think, Nora? It is. It's it is perplexing. And it's one of those stories where you sort of you, you get like lulled into accepting the terms of the situation as it's being reported by like the dulcet tones of NFL network guys. and then you take a step back and go like, this is kind of bananas on a lot of different sides.

Like from Ayuk, the teams he is interested in being Pittsburgh and Washington, like these are the teams that throughout this entire process, there's been some reporting that that's where he wants to go. Either it's Washington because of the friendship with Daniels and he wants to go play with him or Pittsburgh. He likes Mike Tomlin and is interested in the Arthur Smith offense. Like, bro, don't do this to yourself.

First of all. Second of all, from San Francisco, I mean, I can understand it from the perspective of they have a player who's important to their team who's clearly really unhappy. So maybe it's a form of brinksmanship, essentially, where they're saying to him, like, we're going to give you every piece of leeway now short of accepting a bad return in exchange. this has to be worth our while. But we'll give you every opportunity to go try to negotiate with anyone who's willing to listen to you. And if the grass ends up not actually looking greener, then you'll come back and you'll be a little bit happier to play within this offense.

You'll be more of a productive member of the team this year. And I guess from that perspective is the only one that to me makes a lot of sense. But if it's not that, if they're really considering this, the fact that it's happening so close to the season. This is a team that is all in on a Super Bowl window. And they're just thinking like, well, whatever, picks for next year or beyond he doesn't want to be here. We'll just let go and let him go and, you know, get his money somewhere else. And like it's, it's, it's, it's really surprising to me that we're in this situation from either perspective. And then frankly, also from the perspective of some of these teams.

Like Brandon Ayyuk, you know, if it ends up being $30 million a year or something like that, can't offer the New England Patriots that much right now. It's just silly. Like it's, it's, Brandon Ayuk is on the type of team that should swing a big August trade for Brandon Ayuk. So I suppose that says to me that this will, this will all settle out and, and he'll stay there. But we've gone through this for a reason.

It's not, you know, there's a lot of smoke. So it is perplexing to me as well. Yeah, I think the trickiest thing is like it's, it's really been clear that the conditions that need to be met for a trade to be completed are more complicated than I even at first anticipated. I mean, number one, the trade compensation between a team and the 49ers. And this isn't a March trade where you just, all right, draft picks, let's go. We're good. Like you said, Deont. I mean, if they end up trading him now for pennies on the dollar,

I mean, that's like organizational malpractice for a team that's trying to win a Super Bowl right now. Like, what are you doing? If you were going to trade him, there was a time to trade him where you really could have helped your team for this year. And that could have made some sense. You trade him in March, you get the draft capital. Maybe you use some of that more on an offensive lineman on a pass catcher on a corner or whatever. Maybe you use that to trade for a vet. Like there are ways where you had optionality to make your team better in 2024 again,

When you're trying to win a Super Bowl, they didn't do that. So the compensation has to be right. The new contract, it has to be agreed on between Brandon Ayuk and the team. That second condition has to be met. And then the third one, which is this is the one I wasn't thinking about before. Brandon Ayuk has to decide he wants to play at the place. Because it sounds like New England actually met the first two conditions. I mean, the athletics, Chad Graf reported, and I think this was other places too,

that they were willing to pay Brandon Ayuk like a top five wide receiver, over $30 million per year. And then I think the original report from NBC, Bay Area said that the Niners had the framework of a trade in place with the Patriots and the Browns. And then Iuk looked at it and said, no, I'm not like, I don't want to go to New England, which is his prerogative. You know, players can decide where they want to play. But for all those three things to be met, it seems like the Steelers are going to have

to come in and meet the compensation and meet the salary. that the Patriots initially met. And the Steelers are probably looking at this. Like, we don't need to blink here. Like, he's going to reject trades to other places. We know he wants to be here. If he comes on our terms, great. If not, it's not the end of the world.

But I go back to what Deontes said at the start of this conversation. Why are the Niners, like, I sort of went into NBA thinking, like, why are the Niners not just like pay him now? It might not be exactly what we want to do. It's okay. a year from now, like someone's going to want to trade for Ayuk on that contract, two years from now someone's going to want to trade for Ayuk on that contract. And you're trying to win right now. So I still, if you were asking Michelle, what do you actually think is going to happen?

I think if I had to put something on it, I think I would still say he's playing in a Niners uniform in week one. Deonti, what do you think as we flip this ahead? How does this play out, this very fluid story? I think that that's the likelihoods outcome is that he's. stays in San Francisco, even if I think, I think that there is a possibility that this gets a little uglier, a little bit more stress, there's a little bit more stress involved. Because if I'm Brandon and I, you, this is actually one of the rare opportunities where an in-season, quote-unquote, trade, the player holds the leverage in this position because I don't think that San Francisco wants to start the year without its number one wide receiver while they're trying to contend, right? This is a very

tight window that they have left before it's time to pay for Brock Purdy. They're still trying to work out, you know, kind of market readjustment for Trent Williams. There's, there are going to be a lot of paydays that are coming due and a lot of difficult decisions that are going to be made in the future that are going to mirror the one that they're in right now. So if I'm Brandon Ayuk, I'll sit on my hands and I will continue to lean in ways that show just how distressed of an asset I am to try to speed up the timeline. The thing for me, and you kind of noted this as well, while I do think that he's going to be a 49er to open the year and maybe we revisit this around the trade deadline, if a team is really willing to kind of put together like a godfather offer, say if Pittsburgh is kind of hanging around, you know, maybe third place in the AFC North, but they could take that seven seed in the AFC and they really want to make a push that, you know, in this season. I could see it thin. But it's just so difficult to make the machinations of this trade work in my mind, even if I were optimistic that the deal can get done. So I think that this is a Brandon I, you, however disgruntled, comes in place for a team that does meet what is clearly a requirement.

his, which is contending for Super Bowls, you do that for one more year. Maybe you come back to the table mid-year if things aren't going your way, and we can kind of revisit the story at a later date. But at this point now, if the asking crisis is as high as it should be from San Francisco and what all indication says that it is, then if I'm the 49ers, no matter how upset Iyuk is, and no matter how much leverage he has, I'm not dealing this guy just to get this story done with and close the loop. I need my very valuable number one wide receiver if I'm going to get the most out of Brock Pretty, and that is the number one goal here. Yeah, compensation for wide receivers of this caliber starts with a first round pick.

I mean, AJ Brown, Tyreek Hill, DJ Moore, you look at that Bears, Panthers trade. He was essentially treated like a first round pick. Devante Adams was the first and a second. Stefan Diggs, I feel like the Diggs, Vikings, Bills, Diggs trade almost feels like the best comp when I'm just looking at like level of wide receiver. And that was a first, a fifth, and a sixth there. So man, if you're if you're the Niners and you're not in again, if it's a first next year, it's like, all right, I guess that's good.

But if you're a Niners fan, you're not that excited about it. Nora, what do you think? How does this thing play out? Yeah, I guess I think I think the most likely is he stays in San Francisco. The compensation factor is the thing that makes me think that this might be a little bit of sort of like a brinksmanship move where San Francisco is saying, you know, okay, we'll run the risk that something happens here. But we're going to kind of prove to you that there is.

isn't a way to triangulate this so that everybody's happy. Because yes, for a wide receiver of this caliber, the compensation absolutely starts with a first round pick. But it does sound like they want, they want a player that can be on the team now in addition to that. And there's been some reporting that they've been asking for two first round picks. If it is two first round picks and a player who matters, who matters to the 2024 team.

No one's doing that. That's a quarterback trade. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Almost nobody gets traded for two. first. You have to be, it's like Jalen Ramsey, you know, like, I mean, I know the Jamal Adams one, but yeah, that's the like, it's just, yeah, that's Calil Mac, Jalen Ramsey. Yeah. And the

trademark has changed. I mean, teams are much more hesitant now to give up those deals for non-quarterbacks than even they were during jail and Ramsey. So yeah, that that's a good point, Nora. I would even go so far as to say that, like, if the Steelers, the Steelers do that. If they, if they send, yeah, they send two firsts and I don't know, is it Calvin Austin? Like, I don't want to use the M-word malpractice, but like that's a bad trade. That's a mistake. That's a, that's a rock- characteristic for the franchise.

Yeah. Right. Like for a franchise that has never had a lick of trouble stocking the cupboard at receiver. So I think the most sensical, logical, just sort of like how the football pieces and how the money pieces fit together. Answer is he stays in San Francisco.

I will just say, though, that like there's a, there's a silly season vibe to this whole thing. And maybe it's actually not silliness. Maybe it's the emotionality. where the relationship has gone that's affecting things. But like even just watching the reporting, you know, Mike Garifolo's on NFL network and he's doing a broadcast and Brandon Ayuk's agent is like in the background because he's at Raiders camp and they're like, L.O.

And I mean, that's funny. But like there is a thing. I don't know if you guys saw this. Mike Reese, who covers the Patriots for ESPN. Love this. And who is like the greatest person. I love this so much. She'll, you know what this is.

Yeah. So Mike Felger, who does radio and. Boston is like on his radio show and he's basically speculating that Reese had reported that the parameters of a trade to the Patriots for Ayuk were in place and Felger's on his radio show and he's like I think that came straight from the team like well blah Mike Reese calls the show he calls the show and he says I think what you're doing is dangerous you're telling people you're like crafting a narrative about how the media works that makes people think that like we're just parroting you know, whatever the team tells us to do,

which I'll be honest, I think some reporters do that, but I don't think my grease is one of them. My grease is the best. And I just, I don't know. I don't know what that has to do with anything, but I just loved it so much. And like, it speaks to the fact that this story has, it has had weird legs.

I'm glad you brought that. I was on a long text thread about this this morning. And to your point, if anyone has seen the clip, I don't know if, like, I would say Mike Reese might be the most well-liked and well-respected beatwriter in all of the NFL. And like well-mannered. And well-mannered. I've never.

And he, I mean, I loved it. He was just going at him and explaining himself. And I'm with you, Nora. This is probably a whole media conversation that we can go on the press box with. But yeah, it was a conversation about reporters and what they report and whether they check both sides. And Mike Reese would be the one person who you would be like, no, no, no. If he's saying it, like you can take it to the bank.

Like you said, Norm, I'm with you. There are, I'm sure there are reporters that we know will just. just get one thing from the team. And, you know, we all, you try to be like, wait a minute. That sounds like a little spin or whatever. But yeah, that's not Mike Reese. You have to, you have to cover a team. You have to get information from the team. They know what's going on with the team. Right. But there's different versions of it. It was fantastic. Everyone watched that clip. Norah, I would be willing to do like a 20 minute YouTube segment with you just on that, you know, this weekend.

We could do it as a film breakdown. We get the whiteboard. I would love it. That was amazing. My last thing on I you. All right. John Lynch, Kyle Ginghan, you can steal this idea. I don't know. You've probably already thought of it, but he's under contract on his fifth year. What if you say, come in, play for us this year. We're not tagging you after the season. You want to go out there. You want to pick your team. You want to hit the open market. We will, that will be our concession. We won't tag you. Come in. Let's go win a Super Bowl. And then next year, if you play for us or play for someone else, that's okay. But that's a great middle ground. Come on. Let's go. Who says no?

I see. This is a phenomenal idea. Okay. All right. Yeah. They should put us in charge of the team. The person who says no is Kyle Shanahan. Kyle Shanahan says absolutely not.

Why? Why? It's already bad enough. You're already in a bad situation. I will say, well, okay, then let me reframe it and say Deonté Lee says no to this. Because if that were to happen and he were to walk out the door, I'm going to start banging the table on revisiting the Trey Lance trade and whether or not they get this Trent Williams contract, you know, figured out and paying Brock Pretty, whatever, they're going to have

to pay Brock Pretty. And we're going to, and I'm going to start that narrative of it's time to have a dialogue about Kyle Shanahan as the guy who's constructing this team and totally ignore the fact that they put together like a top five defense year over year and the most explosive offense in the NFL. I'm going to start nitpicking that guy leaves. That's fair. I just thought of an addendum because I understand, you're right. How about we won't tag you, but we're doing a handshake. look me and the eye, give us a right of first refusal. If you go out and someone's willing to pay you 35 mil with this guaranteed, you have to bring it back to us.

We'll get back to you quickly because we value you as a player. If we match it, you come join us. If we don't, then you're good. Everybody wins. Now we're talking. Come in a negotiating room right now. I'm feeling it. The U.S. men's basket.

They just inspired me. I've never felt so alive. All right. There we go. Admittedly, that's probably a better solution. There we go. So we'll see. I don't know. At some point, we're going to have an emergency IUC pod, maybe or maybe not. And we'll talk about this further at that time. All right, let's take a break. We come back. We talk MVPs. The NFL futures are out. And now's the time to get in on the action early this season because right now new customers get $150 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. You've got tons of player props, passing yards, a bunch of futures.

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First online, real money wager, only $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. All right. We're back on the Ringer NFL show. So again, here's the exercise. It's very simple.

We're doing four categories of MVP. We're doing non-quarterback. We're doing sleeper. And if one of us picks a sleeper, who the other two don't think qualifies as a sleeper, listen, we're going to go at them. There's no softballs here. That's the second category, third category, runner up. If you're like me and you're really, you know, having pain doing this exercise,

going, do I want to go with this person or this person? you have a chance to explain that to the group and say, here was my runner-up, I didn't ultimately choose this person, but I think this person has a great chance. And then just your winner. No qualifications. You can pick the person with the lowest odds, which I think is Patrick Mahomes.

You can pick anybody you want. Just here's who I think is going to win the MVP in 2024. So let's start with the first category. Non-quarterback, Nora, why don't you start us off? Who do you got? By the way, this like never happened. Last time this happened, 2012, this century, it's happened four times. Adrian Peterson, Lidani and Tomlinson, Sean Alexander, Marshall Falk.

We have had 11 straight quarterbacks win the MVP. So this was kind of a fun exercise to be like, all right, how could one of these people win? Nora, who'd you go with? So it's kind of a good, it's kind of a good segue from our initial conversation about San Francisco. because whatever happens with Brandon Ayuk, I do think that situation, just the dynamic between him and the team leadership, I'm assuming that it's going to have some impact

on just how they see their offense, whether that's, we got to kind of prepare for life without this guy. We've had, you know, basically four really dynamic impact players on this offense when everybody's at full health. But let's think about it as three. And therefore,

my non-quarterback selection, Christian McCaffrey, who is often kind of one of the guys who pops up in that conversation, someone who can be, as long as he's healthy, in the conversation for, you know, sort of a total yards leader,

great in the red zone, big part of that offense, someone who Kyle Shanahan uses really creatively, and obviously we've seen him just play unbelievably well there. I do think this season is one in which the conversation in San Francisco might move off of being so Brock Purdy centric. And then you get into the situation of just like, pick your weapon, you know? And I think McCaffrey, just because he, he impacts the running game, he impacts the passing

game. And he has the ability and how they use him to just like really, really put up some stats. He's my pick there. What do you think, Deontay? It's a good one. I think he's the favorite among all the, non-quarterbacks he has the highest odds. Yeah, I would say that that's probably the safest pick because he can have that Lidani and

Tomlinson in 2006 type of impact on this offense, right? We've seen how often he's targeted second behind Breece Hall last year in terms of receiving production for running backs in terms of like total reception. So you know he's going to get the volume. They will probably lean on him in the running game a bit. You know, I think that they do this fake out every training camp where they say, oh, we're looking for a rotation. We want to find a second to third running.

back so we can keep Christian healthy and keep a pressure out the year. Then it's the fourth quarter. They're up by 30. Exactly. Carrie, Christian McCaffrey. What are you doing? Exactly. Kyle Shane did not, he did not design this offense to play backups.

That's not what this is for. So I do think that on volume alone, there's a pretty good argument. I do agree with Nora. I think if this offense is explosive again, it probably will be because defense is forced them to run the ball or play more traditional offense and not get five guys. out in the route where, you know, Brock Prady can kind of improvise and extend plays and push the ball down the field. So I do think that the opportunity would be there for CMC to win MVP if you're going to

pick a non-quarterback option here. Yeah, it like kind of comes down to with these guys. It's either someone who's going to put up bonkers numbers like record setting type numbers or MVP has been pretty predictable over the years. It's usually the quarterback of like the one or the two seed in either of the conferences. But that's why McAfrey is so interesting because the 49ers are the favorites to be the one seed in the NFC. But if they are the one seed, who's more likely to win at McCaffrey or Purdy? We just saw, I just looked this up. I didn't realize this at the time. McAfree was third

in voting last year behind Lamar and Dak. He was ahead of Purdy. So we kind of just saw this play out. So now if there is no Lamar type season and the Niners have the same record, now he had 2,000 yards and 21 touchdowns last season. I was like, I don't take that for granted. That is not going to happen every season. But if it's those types of numbers, then, yeah, I think he's got a good shot at it. So he was definitely high on my list here. Deonti, did you have anyone else who you were even considering it?

Or was it just McCaffrey and move on? I would say that there's a significant gap between McCaffrey and like the next two names that I thought of. And I think a lot of it is because these guys that have to put up record setting numbers. And we've seen them kind of push. their way into that category so I'm sure you can guess it to and it would be Justin Jefferson and Tyree Kill right and I think that of non-quarterbacks that are relying on quarterbacks to get their production they're probably the two guys that MVP voters will probably be most comfortable

recognizing as kind of offenses into their own right right guys who are maybe lead who are leading the charge who are more of an engine than their quarterbacks I would say that Justin Jefferson is probably longer odds because the quarterback situation is what it is I do think if Tyree Kill is able to replicate the kind of production that he has over the last two years when he's healthy. And that's probably the biggest issue with him is whether or not he can play 15, 16 games and be on the field for enough snaps to kind of finish the deal. If he is as explosive as he was the last couple of seasons, I can see it there.

I would say that just the gap in odds for me personally of seeing that happen, I think is much wider than a Christian McCaffrey, who we know voters are already kind of comfortable with considering an MVP candidate based on where things were last year. Here's my only thing with, to some extent, Jefferson, but it's probably more relevant to the Tiger Kill conversation. You have to be buying the dolphins being pretty good, right? Right. Because it's hard to win MVP on a team that's not, you know, if it's not the one seed is probably got to be the two seed.

And, you know, I think some people feel like those are the expectations for Miami this season. I don't feel great about that. Same. To me, that kind of. pushes Justin Jefferson almost entirely out of this conversation. I just don't think the Vikings are going to be good enough to have an MVP on that team this year. Tyreek, Miami, it's a more borderline case, but it still means that there's two hurdles, one being, you know, how good do you feel about him staying on the field, issue with McAfrey as well?

But then two, just is that Miami offense and that Miami team as a whole going to be competitive enough in the AFC that, and the FCE East, even for that matter, that they'll just have the team success requisite for people being willing to vote for him. Yeah, it's tough. Jefferson was the other name. I wrote down only because the bonkers numbers, like, yeah, he could, could he have a 2,000-yard season? And the thing I love about Jefferson is when you watch him,

it's so clear when he is just putting the entire offense on his back. Like I always think of that Vikings' Bills game. and they're fourth down. And it's just like, all right, there's no question who's doing the work here for this offense and why this team is still in it. I mean, he's got one of those type of seasons in him at some point. It's a matter of help. But you're right, Nora. I mean, are they going to win the NFC?

They would have to win the NFC North and then some probably, which I guess maybe, but yeah, probably not. They're over under for wins. I just even if he has, if he puts up 2,080 receiving yards. and just lights the world on fire, but it's on a nine-win Vikings team. Right. You're not giving MVP to that guy. Offensive player of the year.

Yeah. Exactly. Right. It's the most shoeing offensive player of the year case you've ever heard. No doubt. What would it take for Miles Garrett to win MVP? What would it take for Miles Garrett to win MVP? So the Browns would definitely have to win the AFC North.

I mean, that that would be a similar requisite. Yes. It would probably have to be the number one defense again. I'm trying to think sack-wise how many he'd, have to have to have to a legitimate question. Well, I think he would have to like, who's, who's Taylor Swift but not Taylor Swift? Like he needs, I don't know, Miles Garrett might be married and if this is true. I'm sorry. He needs to like, like date Cameron Diaz.

Like he needs to do something. What a couple. What a power couple. How of the content we would get from that. Amazing pull. She's engaged. He needs to date Charlie XXX. He needs to return a sack fumble for a touchdown. And then he needs to do the Apple dance in the end zone. And he needs to do that about four times. And then Miles Garrett will win the MVP. In addition to that, yeah, a lot of, a lot of sacks mid, I don't know, mid 20, yeah, 20. It would have to like 25.

25 was in my head. And I'm like, are you nuts shield? 25 sets. And also I feel like the offense would have to be not that good where it's just very, it's kind of like the Browns last year to a degree where it's like, man, the defense is carrying this team. It's just so hard for guys like that. because once he starts dominating and then he's just the focal point of every offensive game playing,

don't let this guy wreck the game. And I feel like offenses have gotten better and better at that when there's one guy like that. But yeah, I would love to see us having a conversation in November or December where it's like, hey, let's at least talk about it. Are we sure he's not the MVP? Because he's got one of those every year, I'm like, I think this might be the season where we're going to see that. And he's had awesome seasons, steady production, but just that season that we're telling our grandkids about, I think that's still to come for Miles Garrett. All right. Next category.

Sleeper. I don't know how you guys defined sleeper. So I'm interested to see who you come up with. Let's see, Nora started the last one. Deonti, why don't we start with you on this one? Who is your sleeper to win MVP? Sleeper was tough for me for some of the reasons that we've kind of already talked about, right? because it's so clear that this is going to be quarterback on a great team that throws a lot of touchdowns or is highly productive.

But I would say if I was to pick one, it might be Anthony Richardson because I think he can replicate the kind of year that Jalen Hertz had in 2022, where maybe you get double digit rushing touchdowns. You know, he's our best short yardage option. And then you do get some of that explosive downfield passing that I know the Colts are really excited about incorporating into their offense again now that he's healthy. And I do think that there's maybe some potential for that. Obviously, the AFC South, I think we'll be maybe not as competitive as some of the other divisions for guys that you might consider sleepers. But I think if he has a really big splash season, like I said, the way the Jalen Hertz did in 2022, we might find ourselves having a conversation about him in December. Right. Like, oh, if they finish this, you know, finish this month out strong and win the AFC South, he can at least be kind of in that top three to five consideration.

Nora, what do you think? Was that your choice or you had someone else? I have someone else, but I think it's a really good pick. The only thing, because I agree with you, I think he's, he's, you know, it's a wild card, obviously, because you're going off such a small sample size from last year. But the ceiling for Anthony Richardson is that that kind of 2022 year that would have people talking about him in this conversation. I do think the fact that they're in the AFC is hard because, again, for MVP and, you know,

not not any of the other awards it really does hinge so much on team success and team success within your within your division but also your conference and I think that would be hard which is why I went to the I went to the NFC and a team that a player who could fit the typical MVP prototype in in a lot of ways and I hope this qualifies as a sleeper I think he does because I don't think he's in anybody's like top five or eight or so picks and And I mean, can we get a little Jared Goff? Oh, yeah. Wow.

That's not where I thought you were going with that. Jared. I mean, come on. I think there's a world in which the, in which the lions are capable of controlling the NFC this year. If he's the quarterback of that team, obviously they rely on the run game a lot. But we've, we've seen him be able to take part in that offense.

I don't think that he is like written out of the story of that offense. And I also think that people love themselves some Jared Gough, except for the people who really don't love themselves from some Jared Gough. But I think the story of that team, Detroit, the way that he left L.A., I think there's a lot of people who are really, really, really ready to line up behind that guy. And it's entirely possible that they could have the season that the quarterback of the team

often wins an MVP award for. And so then all you need to get over is the fact that, you know, he's always going to have the passenger princess criticism within that offense. And I just think that's the type of thing that, you know, he's a sleeper for a reason, but there are a lot of voters who could get over that real quick. Yeah, I'm trying to think of what that would take. So I like, it's a great pick because the qualifications like win a lot of games be a one or two seed, yes, quarterback of that team.

Yes. Numbers. Absolutely. The numbers could be there. It reminds me a little bit of the Purdy McCaffrey conversation we just had, but there isn't a McCaffery, like there are good players, but no one's going to, I don't, I don't think people are going to be like, I'm on Ross St. Brown should win or Sam LaPorteur should win or Pene Soule. There could be. You know how O-Line Twitter gets a little excited.

They could be pushing for Penny Soule, I could see in January. But it's like hard for, I feel like everyone would just be like, all right, we're not voting for Jared. Who's the next, who is the two seed in the NFC? Who is the one seat? I feel the opposite. I feel like there are a lot of people who would want to do it. Okay. That's interesting. See, I was going to, my sentiments echo shields. I just think that the gap to get over in terms of like past reputation is just too wide for someone like golf.

Because I think statistically you can definitely make the argument, right, especially when you just look at pure volume accounting stats. Sam Howell was the only player in the NFL who had more passing attempts in Jared golf last season. You know, and he's not because he does not turn the ball over at as bad a rate as it was at the end of his LA tenure. And I think he has improved a little bit. not taking sacks. I would say if Detroit was like wire to wire, best team in the NFC, and it was just so clear that they had taken that crown. They're the odds on favorite in that conference to make the Super Bowl

and a team that we can seriously consider to be competitive with the top of the AFC if they do make the Super Bowl. I could see him, again, being in that top three to five conversation. But like Sheila saying, I mean, there are going to be a lot of people that no matter what, unless he came out and through for like 5,000 yards that are going to look and say, like this is still Jared Goff that we're talking about. Still training wheels on the offense in the passing game. You're playing for maybe the best offense to play caller that's not a head coach right now.

And I think that there would be a lot of credit kind of given to just Detroit organizationally for building an infrastructure where a quarterback like Jared Goff could thrive. I don't know how much of that singular credit he would be given in that instance. It's an interesting question in terms of the makeup of the voters. also the other thing though I do think his teammates would stump for him I think his teammates would stump for him I think his coaches would stump

for him I think there would be a campaign there would definitely be some type of t-shirt in week 16 where everybody comes out and warm-ups for a yes I could see that and that's honestly to his credit because he's not out there saying I deserve credit and he is like he's got the good makeup

where he knows he knows where his bread is buttered and to his credit he resurrected his career from the dead. I mean, no one thought he was going to be in a conversation in August of 2024 about Sleeper MVP's when he got, when the Rams had to throw in an extra first round pick to get rid of him. So, so good for him. I do feel, you know, he's worth sticking up for. I had two names written down. One of them was Anthony Richardson to what you said, Deontes, just the upside. I don't know, listen, the guy had 98 dropbacks last season. There were some exciting moments within those 98th dropbacks. There was a dual threat, Cam Newton-like ability in those

dropbacks and those running plays. And he's going to be the offense. So the monster numbers could see it. The wild highlight plays absolutely could see it. The narrative, this new character in our lives as football fans. This is awesome. We're going to get to watch this guy. I could see that as well. So I think that is a good one. And then the other one I have written down here. And again, I was like, I don't know if he's a sleeper or not. He actually has worse odds than Jared Gough, who's at plus 2,500. And he has almost identical odds to Anthony Richardson, who's at plus 3,400. And that's Trevor Lawrence, who you would never think of as a sleeper, right?

I mean, number one overall pick, touted as a prospect. But I'm really on the fence with this Jags team. And we do our playoff predictions, they're one that I'm just like, I don't know. Are we, you know, I look at it two years ago, they had a top 10 offense. They were eight and three at one point last season. The stats have been out there. He lost more EPA on drops than any other quarterback in the NFL last year. He also dealt with four different injuries last year.

Like, are we sure he can't just, hey, you know, he's not going to look more like the guy we saw two years ago. And, you know, maybe I'm thinking of the Doug Peterson 2017 season where everyone's like, this guy's getting fire. This is going terrible. And then they go and they win the Super Bowl. do they have a little bit of that magic in them? They don't have the best supporting cast, but they have like a good enough supporting cast. They don't have a division where there's like a Kansas City Chiefs in there

where they can't win it. So he was on my mind. I'm not like far on the hey, Trevor Lawrence does no wrong. He's awesome. Stop ripping him side. I'm also not on the stop making excuses. This guy's overrated side. I'm kind of like in the middle with Trevor Lawrence.

I'm like, I think I still believe in him. I would have liked to see more by now. Like give me another. year and I'll get back to you, you know, in January of 2025. Deontay, what do you, what do you think? Trevor, Lawrence, any could, is there a scenario you could see it? Or am I nuts? I wouldn't say you're nuts. I would just say this is a time where I would kind of borrow Nora's argument when I brought up Anthony Richardson, right, which is just like, I have such a hard time envisioning the situation where Jacksonville performs well enough as a team where Trevor Lawrence can be considered.

an MVP candidate unless he really did have some ridiculously explosive, you know, passing season that we're really not seeing in this era right now, right? Where there's less explosive offense in terms of the passing game than we had, you know, at the height of it over the last half decade. So it would take something really transformative from him. And obviously the talent is there, the ability is there. The best of Trevor when he's healthy suggests that he could be that kind of player for this franchise.

and I do think there's just enough pieces around him that can kind of lift his play as well. It's just when I look at the vibes of Jacksonville, I'm just, I'm not sure if I believe that there's an MVP to be found there right now. Nora, I think when I brought that up, he was just shaking his head. Yeah, he, Deante was kind of disgusted by that pick. What do you think? Are you with them? On an objective level, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, we're talking about sleeper picks here, right?

And like Trevor Lawrence, you know, I think I, I, I still believe is a quarterback. of great ability. We've seen in recent memory that that be a successful team. I would like to know what the government's plan is to have a serious conversation with Doug Peterson about who's calling plays for that offense in the coming months before giving a final answer on how reasonable I think this choice is. You know, I can see Trevor Lawrence playing really well. And he's a he's sort of like a name brand quarterback.

Great. I think the, the, I mean, top or bottom, I don't know if it's 10 or 5, but like bottom quadrant vibes of all of the teams in the NFL, it seems like, you know, for a team that in theory should be good, it just feels like they are at best going in circles, if not actively hurting themselves on a year to year basis. So it's, it's tough for me from that perspective. and again, if what we're going for is the team that, you know, the quarterback of the team that surprisingly controls the conference, I really want to live in NFC world for that. Because I just think it's so hard as a quarterback to get that type of attention in the AFC unless the team is truly very good. Yeah.

Hey, yeah, yeah. I mean, you're right. I mean, I can't even in my head picture them getting to the number of wins. They would need to get to. But we'll see. All right. One more break. Then we come back.

We get to the good stuff. The runner-ups and our actual winners for MVP. All right. We're back on the Ringer NFL show. Nora, I think it's your turn to go first. Who was the person who you said, I want to choose you, but I can't choose you, but you're going to have a monster season. Who do you have?

So it's Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes is the most valuable player in the league? like on a literal sense, it is very clear that that is true. People are bored of him, unfortunately, and therefore I think he might not win it this year. And that's basically that, you know, if you toss in a little bit of like how confident are you that the chiefs will be able to operate a more explosive offense than they did last season, I do think that that's a factor as well. And I'm a little, you know, I'd like to see it before I feel truly confident, although I do

think that they started to find themselves towards the end of the season, obviously. And I trust Andy Reid to figure that out given time. But unless they go crazy and I don't think they have the pieces particularly, you know, with every passing day, just like all of us, Travis Kelsey gets a day older. I don't think they have the pieces to be explosive in a way that feels notable for Kansas city. And absent something like that, I just think voters are really. reluctant to give that award to Patrick Mahomes again.

Yeah, I think it's a good point. He needs to put up the monster numbers, which he could do any given season. I'm sort of with you that on paper, this doesn't feel like the season where his pro football reference line is going to be just, wow, that was one of Patrick Mahomes' best seasons. Now, that could be wrong. Xavier worthy surprises, the tackle situation gets it. Like every season, you've got to give the caveat that no, it actually could happen. but on paper for me

I was with you that I didn't see it as this season. Now, Deonti, if Mahomes is your MVP pick that you don't have to you can just, you know, be silent and be like, move on. I'm just picking my runner up. So the ball's in your court. No, I would say I don't have him as an MVP pick.

I would say he was in consideration of the guy I would pick for runner up. And I do think that Nora kind of hit it on the head. We are going to be entering the Patrick Mahomes fatigue era, right? Like this is where we are. I don't think unless they lose, you know, in a Super Bowl tragically or they don't make a Super Bowl at all, it's going to be really difficult for them to make an argument that what you're seeing from Patrick Mahomes now is any better than it was when he was winning MVP.

And it's an unfair position to be in, right? But this is what happens with all-time grades and guys that are on these transcendent runs, is that you're only compared to yourself. And yeah, I don't see enough in terms of the supporting cast right now to lead me to believe that you can capture that 2018, 2019, 2020. you know, once he took over and was clearly the most explosive quarterback in the NFL. I don't see that in this offense right now. I do think he's going to put up monster numbers, but short of him breaking records or, you know, us having a very down year in terms of quarterback play where there's not a lot of options that can compete with them, I don't see it for him when an MVP, not this season at least.

Yeah, I feel like when we do the ad reads at the end of the show, I should just do one for like disclaimer for the next, you know, 10 years of ringer. NFL show that we discussed MVP and we you know we probably could have all picked Patrick Mahomes he has a great chance of winning it. We went in different directions but don't hold it against us because yeah I think you guys nailed it with the conversation. All right, Deontay then, who do you have? Who's your runner up?

My runner up, I guess, could have served as a sleeper as well. But my pick here is Matthew Stafford. Hmm. Interesting. I'm very interested by this. I think that we're going to get a really strong season from Stafford. I think that what we saw last year with this. them taking a new approach to kind of mixing the run in the past, did a lot to help Stafford.

And then I think we're just, we've seen on film, basically since he's been in Los Angeles, him played the best quarterback, you know, the best version of himself at quarterback that we've seen throughout his career. And being at training camp and just looking at the way he navigates around pockets, I mean, I was there for one of the practices where they didn't have, you know, I think about 60% of their starting offensive line. And I mean, he's just moving through the pocket and finding guys in ways that let you know that when he's dialed in and when he's confident in what he's seeing down on the field,

that it's hard to find five quarterbacks that are better than him on a given Sunday. So, you know, plus 3,000 odds. I think if I remember right, I think he's tied with Trevor Lawrence in terms of odds. So it would be, I think it would take a very dominant L.A. Rams season across the board. They probably would have to be, you know, unseeding San Francisco at the top of the NFC West for him to be in that conversation. but I do think that he's capable. And if Cooper Cup and Pooka Nacour are healthy for most of the year, he's going to have the options available for him to put up the big numbers to be in that talk

when we get to December and January. Yeah, there's such a, to me, I'm having trouble, like, figuring out what I want to do with the Rams going into the season because I think there's some variance there. I see the ceiling for sure. I think there's a good sort of narrative, sentimental arc with Matthew Staffer, where it's like, all right, look at, look at what this guy's doing at this stage in his career after he was stuck into Detroit and couldn't win there. Now he's like you said, he's playing the best football of his career. Your McVeigh, I mean, their offenses are pretty much, you know, top eight, top 10.

Unless they have injuries, the offense is going to be good. And they made investments in the offensive line. We saw it last year. The offense was really good. And we know he can put up big numbers. My slight concern with the Rams is like the injury stuff. And it's not just what's happening. happened in camp, like when I was doing my preseason work, like they were the healthiest team

in the NFL last year. There's a part of me that's like last year was the year for them. And they were so close to beating Detroit and that like, are they going to get that injury luck again this season? Now, maybe they do. They've had seasons like that before and they've invested in that offensive line. But like Cooper Cup, the guys they sign, the guys that are already injured, like you mentioned 60% of the offensive line. But it's a good one. He wasn't, he wasn't on my list. He wasn't on my radar, I could see it. Nora, what do you think about Stafford? It's a, it's a fun one to think about because I do feel like they're one of those teams where the season could could go in so many directions. The spectrum there feels pretty wide. What I like about it is that I think if the Rams,

if this Rams team is successful, they're going to have to be successful because Matthew Stafford's playing really well and they're winning high scoring games. I don't feel great about this defense in general. So I think that would work in his favor. What I feel less great about is that in my heart of hearts, I'm not sure it's going to turn out that way. I think it's more likely that this team just doesn't win quite enough games for this to happen. The other thing is just I'm worried about the November tweet from, from, you know, maybe it's Jordan Rodriguez. Maybe it's another fabulous beat writer where it's just like the Rams are on their 14th offensive line combination of this season going into Sunday. It's just been a slog. And, you know, it's good to hear that when you went to camp

there, it looked like he was moving around and able to navigate some of that stuff, which they've been dealing with in camp. I just, I have a little bit of trepidation about Matthew Stafford at this point in his life and his career, being able to do that over the course of an entire season without getting injured himself. So there's just, there's a lot of things that would have to break right. But I think that's also why it's fun because if they did, we know that he's still capable of when he's healthy. As long as things around him are okay being one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. We know what McVeigh can do. And we know that they every year seem to find unexpected pieces. So it's a fun one. I don't know that my heart is in it, but it's a really fun one.

Yeah, I like the defense point because I don't think their defense is going to be good at all. And if they're winning shootouts, then he's throwing for 5,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. And if they win the NFC West and, you know, take down the defending, you know, NFC champs, then that could work in his favor. But will the win, you know, they don't almost have to get lucky with some of the one score games and stuff like that, which is possible. Teams get lucky with that every year. All right. I was deciding between two guys. And maybe, you know, I'm playing to my type here.

I've talked about both these guys before at length. but I've got Jordan Love and C.J. Stroud were the two guys I was debating between for my runner-up. And I went with love because of Nora, the point you made, which is, let me just head over there to the NFC where it's going to be easier to win games. So, rather than C.J. Stroud having to win 12 games in the AFC. So I think C.J. Strout has the P. I'm buying them. I'm not fading the Texans. And I'm not saying they're overhyped. I think they're going to be awesome this year. I think he's going to be awesome this year. But ultimately, I won't. with love. I just looked at it like that was his first season as a full-time starter last year. And look at what the guy did playing with a bunch of young guys all around him. And it's like not everything went perfect for him last year. And he was third in EPA per pass play. That's taking, that includes the first. That's not in the second half. That's the whole season. It includes the

first half of the season when they didn't really know what they were doing. And so I just love his style of play. I think he's smart. I think he's talented. I think he's aggressive. I love the high degree of difficulty throws. He attempts. And I also like the sort of safety net there where it's not like, well, if you lose Justin Jefferson, it's like they have like if one guy goes down, it's not going to crater their season. Like the way they're built is it is interesting. I always like the teams with the Monster One wide receiver. But hey, it worked for them. They had a what top five or six offense last year without that guy. And again, these are all ascending theoretically, I should say, ascending players. These aren't guys like in their 30s. So I think he probably,

if you dig deep into the numbers, got a little lucky with the turnovers last season. So, you know, those could come back and bump up a little bit. But I just see so much room to grow. I see, you know, the knowledge of the offense working with Matt LaFour. And I think they've got a chance. I don't know who I'm picking yet in the NFC North. Those are two of my, you know, favorite teams in the whole NFC. I'm like, which one do I pick to win the division? Packers and Lions. I think they can both win 11, 12 games. And so if he wins the division, they win 11 or 12 games. And so if he wins the division, they win 11 or 12 games. I think he's got a shot.

So Jordan Love, my runner up. Your runner up and my sleep are kind of going head to head there. That's right. Yeah. That is true. There you go. All right. We get down to the final segment.

The winner. Who are we two? Now, we are going to do an award show later in August. I'm going to leave like 1% ounce of room where if weird stuff happens, we're allowed to change these. But other than that, we got to stick with these. Throughout the course of August, our pick for winner in 2024, Deonte. Who do you got?

You know, it's funny because I get so much grief from this fan base about how much I must dislike this guy and it's so disrespectful where I put it in my quarterback tears. But I think because of the opportunity for volume in Cincinnati of passing that Joe Burrow was going to win MVP this year. We got the same one, Deontay. We didn't plan it. I got Joe Burrow.

as well. Unbelievable. What a twist. I wasn't sure that that's where I was going to stick, right? I went over the odds a bunch of times. I really tried to look at what the depth charts were, what the reporting out of training camps were, how I might feel about their schedule and how competitive it's going to be in their conference. But when I look at this depth chart, it's all, this offense is clearly built for Joe Burrow to be in the gun and it's on your shoulders, buddy. You're going to set the protections. You're going to find the open guy. We're not really looking to be explosive in the run game. I do think that they've taken some smart dark throws at the offensive line position, especially at tackle. And I do think if Ameris Mems hits,

there's a real opportunity there for them to build a balanced type of attack. But when you look at like Mike Gisicki, T. Higgins, Jemar Chase, this is not a team, no matter what they say, that is really built to ground and pound. They are going to put the ball in Joe Burroughs hands when they need a play and trust him to go find the mismatch. And they obviously have the talent at skill positions to go be able to create mismatch. across the field. So I feel pretty good about this pick. And I hate the fact that I've got to stick with it because I really might start watching some old 2020 tape tonight and change my mind totally. But Joe Burroughs where I'm at right now. I did not think that someone else was going to

have Burrow on this pod. That's hilarious. All right. So here's let me add on to that and then we'll get to Norris pick. So I've got Burrow as well. So here's my case. He was fourth in MVP voting in 2022. So we know he's got like that monster season in him last season. He's playing injured. I mean, he's limited. Like anyone who watched the Bengals last year, it's like, this isn't Joe Burrow. He starts getting healthier. They light up the 49ers. They light up the bills. Like those were two of the five best teams in the NFL. They won those back to back games and he played really well. And then he suffers the season ending injury. So now you go into 2024. This very well could be the best offensive line he's ever played behind. I mean, I know Deonti, you were tweeting about the same

of Marius Mims clip I was watching where I was getting very excited about his potential there at right tackle. I like that they have a swing tackle, whether it's Trent Brown or whether they slow play names. They can withstand an injury at offensive tackle. They've got bets on the interior. It's not the best group, but they've got a solid offensive line. Then they manage the T. Higgins situation. I mean, we're talking about Brandon Ayuk. Like T. Hickens is. in practicing, sign the tag. Like, let's go try to win. I'll figure everything else out after the year. Now, Jamar Chase, that's a different story, but I don't think Chase has a lot of leverage. I mean, I understand, like, fine for him. I wouldn't want to practice in training camp if I were Jamar Chase.

But at the end of the day, is he going to be so dug in that he misses game checks and they can't find a compromise? Again, I could be revisiting this and sounding stupid if that's what happens a month from now. I don't think that's the most likely scenario. I think he'll be there for them. So I like the supporting cast, wide receivers, offensive line. They've got the fourth easiest schedule in the NFL. If you look at opposing win total, so there are some opportunities to rack up some big numbers. They kind of get rewarded for the season they had last year now that Burrow is back and the

opponents that they face. And then I just look at it the way they've had to play the last three years. He bursts on the scene. They're bombing it downfield in 2021. It's like, that's their only move. But man, they do it really well. Next season, they can't play that way. They have to be more balanced.

They're running it a little bit more. It's more methodical. He's accurate. He completes 70% of his passes. I just feel like they've got a nice library of resources to go to, depending on how different guys are performing and depending on how opponents are playing them. So I think Burroughs going to have a monster ear. I think the Bengals are going to have a very good ear.

And there you go. Burrow is the choice for both Deonté and myself. Nora, what do you think? You're like, these guys are lame. picked the same guy we didn't even go over this terrible podcast so i love it i have i have a i have a different selection okay but i do i thought about bro and i also just you know he comes into camp he's got the shaved head there's just a vibe to it he's so he's cool calm collected he's like managing he's helping manage the jimar chase thing by the way jimar chase chase

sitting out of these practices meanwhile just some good old development for our guy andre Yoshivas. Some of Yosha and I talked about. Coach Flynn, you know, didn't. He will say, I didn't teach him anything he knows. He was awesome already. But yes, this is a pro-yoshavaz podcast. This is a very, a pro-yosh pod.

So to the extent that I didn't pick him, I just sort of, I had a vibe going a different direction. I really think that you could take basically everything that you guys said about the situation that Burroughs in this year. you know, he's someone who people maybe are ready to award. He's been high in the voting recently. There's been sort of a track record of, you know, he bursts onto the scene, has some issues with the team around him staying healthy with his own health.

We've seen him kind of develop over the years, become this like very disciplined, deficient guy. Not a lot of people in the Bengals organization who are going to sort of take credit away if they're successful. And then it's also just that, you know, I think the, the AFC quarterbacks, as we've talked about in a number of categories here, are looked at as like, that's the big leagues kind of. And if you can be the one who ends up having the season that stands out of that group, I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of instinct to reward that.

Those are basically all the same reasons I went with Josh Allen. I think there's a little bit of, of people are off the same. of the bills. I think some of the bill's issues are real, but I think some of them are overstated. I still think this is a pretty good team. I think Josh Allen is a, you know, is a reliable quarterback to as long as he is healthy throughout a season. He's at least sniffing 4,500 yards. The production is pretty much always there. I do, you know, I'm buying a little bit of the Coleman hype. I'm buying some of the. the Dalton Kincaid stock right now.

I think there's been some positive stories out of camp there. I think their offense last season was good. I think the troubles were vastly overstated. But I think that works in two ways because if he comes out and has a great ear and they have a great year this year, it's both not going to be that surprising because a lot of the tools and a lot of the ingredients were already there. But the narrative, and it is a narrative award, is such that it doesn't feel. like it was. There's going to be, you know, we can do the overcoming adversity. And then you're talking

about someone, he was fifth in voting last year. He was third the year before, two years before that, he was second. He's never won it. So if you're talking about someone who has been kind of the runner-up quarterback of this era to Mahomes, if he can put together a season where it feels justified, I think people are going to want to give it to him. To your credit, I would say any and all Buffalo success this year. He is going to be the start and finish point of where the credit goes. Yeah. And I do think, you know, I agree with you in terms of like, there are some real things to be concerned about or at least to be questioning coming into the year. I do think it's overblown. I think them not having Stefan Diggs is probably not going to be as big a deal for the way that

they want to run this version of the bill's offense as it would have been in years prior. Right. I think that, and he's done a good job at kind of spreading the wealth amongst all the different different weapons that they have. I do think if Don Kincaid continues to step forward and it's a guy that can kind of show some of the reasons that made him a first round draft pick, right, the yards after catch ability, the ability to work, you know, at the intermediate and the short level of the field in terms of route running. If Keon Coleman can go win on the outside, I think that it's entirely possible that this is a quicker kind of pivot of offensive identity than some people are giving it credit for. And if that happens, again, they're going to have an opportunity to win the AFC East.

I don't say that they're probably pretty clearly the best team or the team I feel most confident in in that division right now. I think that there's a lot of reason to believe in his candidacy, independent of the history of him kind of hovering around winning an MVP award. And I think that that usually does help, right? When there's a guy that everybody kind of recognizes as the number two throughout this process, if he does have another explosive year, this would be a prime opportunity for people to feel like, oh, another 4,000 yard, 35 plus touch. down season, you probably earned it after maybe being snubbed in different years or having an argument for being MVP in different seasons. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, I think the point, yeah, I mean, they trade digs and then to your guys point, like, if they have a monster season, it's just going to be like, look at look at this from Josh Allen. I mean, they, they have won 71% of their

games with Josh Allen over the last five seasons. I mean, it's like Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen. Like, these are the guys who, when they've been healthy and on the field, they're two. team just win over and over again. And in his case, it's not, you know, like the support, the defense. I mean, the defense has been good, but there have been things changed around him. And they've had a top 10 defense for offense for four straight seasons. Three of those, they've been top five. He's durable.

He's dual threat. I mean, they're, you know, I could definitely see a late push Josh Allen season where September we're going, all right. It doesn't look that great. All right. Everyone was hyping up Keon Coleman. And then, oh, wait, they're still in the mix. And the November comes around.

Watch out. The bills have won four in a row. Wait, are we sure Josh Allen's not the MVP? And all of a sudden Christmas rolls around and we're like, nope, top three, Josh Allen is on all those lists. So I think he's a great pick. I honestly put him, Lamar, Mahomes. Like you can put them in that category of every, you know, every year, basically that guy's healthy and in his prime. You can make the case because of what they're asked to do. And really with, you know, Alan and you can make the key with Lamar, Alan and Mahomes, even this year,

you look at the supporting cast and you're not going. when those teams are loaded, you know, like if those teams are going to win 12 games, those guys are going to have to have monster season. So I think it's, uh, it's an excellent pick and want to continue to think about. Last thing about Josh Allen is that Josh Allen highlights focus on Josh Allen. Some Joe Burrow highlights are really Jamar Chase highlights. Yeah. That's true. That's fair. Josh Allen highlights are like he's jumping over people. He's doing somersaults. He's, you know, baking a cake at midfield. Like there's, there's, there's crazy stuff going on there. plays every play like it's fourth down, fourth quarter. Super Bowl's on the line.

Life on the line. Yeah, life's on the line. He quit it. Not even Super Bowl. The world as we know it on the line, maybe. I didn't go too far. Could not possibly relate to that energy less in my own life. Absolutely love watching it on a football field. I agree with you. Yeah, I think I'm more wired like you are. All right, that was fun. Those are the picks. We're going to get to more awards later in August. It's going to be fun to talk about all of those. but that will do it for this episode. Thank you to Nora.

Thank you to Deonti. Thank you to producer, Olivia, Creery, filling in in a big spot. Additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal. Everyone have a great weekend, unless there's Brandon Ayuk trade news. I shouldn't have put that into the universe,

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