The Ringer NFL Show - Breaking Down NFL Mock Draft 2.0 and Winners and Losers of the NFL Combine's Cancellation

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

Kaelen Jones is joined by The Ringer’s Danny Kelly to discuss some of the top prospects in his latest mock draft (2:02). Then they are joined by The Ringer’s Rodger Sherman to pick out who the winners and losers are after the league announced there won't be an in-person combine this year (36:10).  Host: Kaelen Jones Guests: Danny Kelly and Rodger Sherman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm your host, Caitlin Jones, and we've got a draft-centric episode just for you. Up first is our draft guru, Danny Kelly, addressing my biggest questions coming out of his latest mock draft. Later on, we have Roger Sherman joining us as we declare our winners and losers who are missing out on having no combine in 2021. All that more coming up next. All right. Joining me now is Danny Kelly, our draft. The Wizard and Extraordinary.

You follow him on Twitter at Danny B. Kelly. Danny, how are you doing, man? I'm doing excellent. How are you doing, man? I'm doing pretty good. Doing pretty good. What's the B stand for? I feel like you've probably said this before on the show.

It's Brolly. My middle name is Brolly. It's like a family name. My grandmother's last name is Brolly. So yeah. Or great grandmother, I should say. Well, shout out to your great grandmother. Dude, you've got a handful of roles here at the ring of your staff writer officially.

Also, some fantasy football show with Danny Hyphids, Craig Horrobrick. You are a father, a husband, and probably the most stressful role, a full-time Seattle Seahawks fan. Good God, yeah. But we've got you on because you found enough time within all that to put together a mock draft and a big board for the 2021 NFL draft, which you can find at NFLDraft. Which you can find at NFLDraft.com. So I've got a few questions for you surrounding that. let's definitely jump into that.

Let's do it. I love talking this out because I feel like I do put in a lot of thought, but you can only explain it so much in these little blurbs that you include. So yeah, let's dig in. I want to address all the haters. Oh, yes, please do. I'm sure you'll have a lot of haters for your first pick, which you have the Jaguar selecting Trevor Lawrence,

which should be chalk. But then the second pick in the draft with the New York Jets. I think that's where you get a lot. of question marks, at least as far as far as like who was choosing or who should be selected here. And you have Zach Wilson at number two. Why do you have BYU,

Zack Wilson number two, Danny Kelly? So in this one, I think I put fields in my mock jet draft 1.0. And this one I put in, I put Zach Wilson because I feel like we really don't know who the jets are keying in. Right now, the wins say

that it's going to be Zach Wilson. I feel like it's almost consensus at this point. that Zach Wilson is going to be the number two quarterback in this draft in terms of where he's picked. And we even saw some, you know, some talk yesterday that a few teams have

Zach Wilson above Trevor Lawrence, which I just think is ludicrous. But it's hard to ignore kind of like what everything is pointing to right now with Zach Wilson and the Jets. It just feels like that is what's going to happen. Now it could just be smoke before the draft and some sort of smoke screen.

I don't know why they would do that. But yeah, I think that's kind of what I did. That's why I went with that. I think that's closer to what's probably going to happen. That being said, I am a little bit higher on Fields. I feel like Fields has the, you know, not only the production and the skill set that I, you know, prefer a little bit over Fields, or over Wilson, but he's done it at a higher level in terms of like the competition and big, big games. We saw what he did against Clemson, six touchdowns. And four of those touchdowns came after he had taken just like an ad, an adjunctation.

brutal hit. He could barely walk, but he gutted it out. So to me, Fields is the clear number two quarterback in this draft, but a lot of people have Wilson above him. And it just really wouldn't surprise me at all at this point if he is the number two quarterback in terms of where he comes off the board. Okay. Well, that's the thing. You have fields at number two on your prospect board, and Wilson's a little bit lower. And I see why, you know, people would assume that Zach Wilson might be that number two prospect or that they might have a little bit higher. I think if you've watched the NFL, at least the star quarterbacks who are taking over to league right now, or have been at the top of that barrel outside of Tom Brady, look at Aaron Rogers,

Josh Allen, who kind of emerges here, and Patrick Mahomes. You can't help it if you see a guy with a pretty nimble arm who can change his arm slot and also chuck at the on field and throw the ball off platform. I totally understand where people are kind of chasing the upside here. But I guess like the question is, why would New York choose him over Justin Fields, in your opinion? Well, I think there's some worry that Fields, you know, in his, in Ohio State's offense, he had a tendency to kind of like stare down his receivers,

not go through his reads quite as quickly as I think some people would want. So I think that is pretty much like the biggest worry right now is his ability to like react quickly, make quick decisions, go through his reads, took a few too many sacks in college. And so I think that's like a big worry. But I mean, other than that, for Wilson, I can, like, I'm with you. I can see why teams are going to like this guy. He does have like an elastic arm.

In fact, I comped him to Henry Rohn Gartner as kind of a joke just because he's got like that. He looks like he's, you know, maybe 15 years old. but he's got this like rocket arm. And so he, he, the way he plays and sort of the sandlot style that he plays is kind of where the NFL is going. You have to be able to move around. You have to be able to like think on your feet, get out of pocket, make throws out of structure. And Wilson does all that stuff. And I, you know, there's this huge like debate over who is going to go number two Wilson or Fields.

I like both of these guys. I think both of them are probably going to be good pros. And so I don't like necessarily It's not like I hate Wilson or anything like that But I do think it's just I don't know why he's all of a sudden become the number two guy in this draft class after After seeing what Fields did against Clemson after seeing what Fields has done his entire career You know it just feels like this is like a momentum thing with with with the draft cycle that that he's like turning into this huge star And I think a lot of it has to do like he said he's a very

fun player to watch. His tape is super exciting. He throws a lot of deep shots. When you turn on his tape, you can see like the talent is there. But the things I worry about a little bit with him is his frame is a little bit smaller. The same deal is like Joe Burrow where he's just kind of skinny. You worry a little bit about durability at the NFL level. If he can take hits. And then the competition level is a big question mark for me.

You know, he goes, the BYU, it wasn't their fault necessarily. It was a COVID-affected off. or COVID-defected season, but they just didn't have any big, you know, top-tier opponents this season. And so it's just hard to extrapolate that into the NFL with faster defenders,

bigger hitters, all that stuff. And so to me, there's just a few more question marks with Wilson than with Fields. But the bottom line is both of these guys are good. And I do like both of these guys. And I think they both have very exciting skill sets.

Yeah, definitely. I agree with you there. I think both prospects are, really, really intriguing. And I think that, you know, you have long-term options there with both guys. But that being said, you know, looking at your mock, going off the board a little bit, if the Jets were to choose, Zach Wilson or even Justin Fields here, what do you think it means for Sam Darnold? Because Robert Sala back in January, called him an unbelievable talent, kind of suggested that they would give Sam Donald a shot. But we've seen teams, you know, commit.

in the moment, two quarterbacks and then the side that they're going to move on. But I guess what's your take on Sam Donald's potential future here? Getting the Josh Rosen treatment or whatever. Yeah, I think it almost feels like it would do Darnold

like it would just be better off for him in his career to like get a change of scenery. That's kind of like where I stand with Darnold. I don't think he's necessarily a he's not going to have a chance to succeed in the NFL. But I do think that you know, long term, it probably just serve him better to get out of New York,

kind of like get a clean slate. It obviously was a quote-unquote bust in terms of what he's done over the first few years of his career there. And so I don't know, the Jess are in this position where they can draft a new, they can draft a new quarterback and start fresh and have a new coaching staff,

new scheme, all that stuff. It just kind of makes sense to me for them to move on. And they can still get, I would guess, you know, based on the Wentz thing, they could probably get like a second round or at least for him, right? At this point, it may be more. So I don't know.

It just depends on kind of like who's calling. But yeah, I do think it probably just makes sense for them to move on. And so I lean towards the idea that that was just like coach speak when you get in there and you're going to back your guy from the start in case that you end up sticking with him. Right, right. And that would be interesting. But like either way, because I think if you get a young quarterback into that system with Michael Lefleur, assuming that he brings in, you know, a system that's similar to coming from the college

Channing Tree. We have zone rushing offensive scheme that, you know, you see quarterbacks who are average to above average really, really thrive or at least succeed consistently in that system. So I'm really intrigued to see like how potentially Zach Wilson or Justin Fields or whoever, even if it's Sam Donald, kind of fills into that role. Let's move a little bit further down to your draft. One more spot. Number three with the Miami Dolphins. You've got Devante Smith from Alabama going number three here. You have him as the first receiver going off the board before LSU's Jamar Chase. Yeah. So why do you have DeVante Smith being the first guy off the board? So I wrote this mock draft a couple days before Daniel Jeremiah of the NFL

network tweeted something sort of ominous. He tweeted, by the way, I've been in, I don't know, this is me paraphrasing. I've been in a bunch of draft meetings in my career and we've never once talked about the Heisman trophy or the Outland trophy or any of these trophies. And I think everyone kind of saw that as like a sub-tweet like, hey, Devante Smith might not go as high as you guys think he's going to go. So I wrote, I want to just say I did my mock before he said that. So now I'm like a little less confident that Tavante Smith could go quite this high. But that being said, obviously Smith has the connection with Tua Tongavala-Lola-Lua.

Get him into Miami. You got that immediate impact, immediate chemistry. They know each other. They trust each other. I think a lot of what... This is just a part of what happened in Miami last year, but Tua didn't feel to me like he was pulling the trigger quite as much as he should have.

In terms of aggressiveness, pushing the ball down the field. If you get a guy that you trust, you know where he's going to be. Like, they played together for multiple seasons. Get him in there and they practiced together for years, all that stuff. I just feel like that was to me like maybe a little bit bump because I got Jamar Chase ranked tire on my board. but that familiarity in Smith, I think that was kind of just like why I bumped him up there.

But I do think that his size and his slim build is going to be a concern for some teams. And I don't know if it's going to be concerned for the dolphins or if they just decided to pass on him for that reason. But it's just a situation where the talent is undeniable, the production is undeniable, but it's sort of like you're expecting him to be an outlier in the NFL because there's just not that many guys that are that skinny,

that slim that go and have productive long-term careers. So he's sort of this unicorn type receiver that I really, it's hard to nail down where exactly he's going to go. He could go much further. He could fall much further than we think. No, and I totally agree. Like especially in the sense that, you know, he's a smaller receiver. And like you said, receivers who were that free, or at least maybe not that frail,

that's skinny, typically and that small, don't usually go that high in the NFL draft. I think, actually, Daner Jeremiah, I believe he added as the third receiver taken in his NFL.com mock draft. So, I mean, there's some wide variance here regarding Devante Smith. You know, he's listed at 6-1, 175 pounds. There's been discussion at least within the draftsword or sphere about, you know, his breakout age. He's 22 currently when he gets draft. He was 21 last season when, you know, he led Alabama's receiving corps, which included Jerry Judy, Henry Ruggs, and Jalen Wottle.

Yeah. And he led them in receiving yards and receiving touchdowns and then somehow improved on that this year. By like a lot. By a lot. Literally bucked into a Heisman trophy. Yeah. Like, absurdly good. And, you know, that being said, like, I think there's reason to trust Devante Smith.

like Alex Gale of PFF or excuse me, Austin Gale from Pro Football Focus, tweeted this out back in January. The best single season yards per route run versus press coverage in terms of average among Power 5 receivers since 2016. Devante Smith is at 4.27 in 2019. He was averaging over 4 yards in 2020. Jamar Chase, who's projected to be the number one receiver and by a lot of us, is, it was at 3.82 in that same category.

So if Devanti Smith were to go to Miami, let's say he's going up against Buffalo's press cornerbacks consistently, he's going up against J.C. Jackson, Spong Gilmore in New England. Yeah. I think that he would have some success. I don't think that it's, you know, necessarily unfair to think that he has a chance to go to Miami. Additionally, the questions about, you know, him being older, it reminds me so much about Calvin Ridley. Because he came into the league at 24 years old, right? came out of Alabama, highly successful. But those first two years, he was at, I mean,

he had over 800 yards in each of his first two years. And this season really merged as being, I mean, I don't think he's Atlanta's number one, but he's definitely one B with Julian Jones. So, and he's one of the better receivers in the league. So I think there's reason to trust the production that the Vodte Smith had. Maybe he won't be better than Jermar Chase,

but especially if he gets too attack Baila to feel comfortable, why not? Yeah, I'm with you on that. Like, I'm in the camp that says the odds of him being, like, being the outlier or actually feel higher to me than him just not being able to cut it in the NFL for whatever reason. Like, injuries are always sort of this wildcard. You don't know what's going to happen. But it's not like he's gone up against small corners or small defenders.

It's not like he hasn't taken hits in the SEC against big defenders, like hard-hitting defenders. So I know that it's another level up in the NFL. And that's something that we're going to have to find out about. but yeah, he's going to be a controversial draft pick. I think just because, like you said, the breakout or the, you know, generally speaking, like when you're talking about fantasy football, that community really looks highly on guys that leave early that come out of school early. And he didn't do that, but I think he could have.

Like, so he's like a little bit of a special case because he honestly could have last year. I feel like a lot of people were saying they liked him more than Judy, you know, or rugs coming out last year. He could have been a, I think he could have been a late first or early second rounder last year. So the late, you know, the late declare, whatever, the fact that he was a senior, the fact that he's a little bit older coming into the NFL, that doesn't really bother me as much.

It's kind of like the same situation as Brandon Ayuk last year, where people were a little down on IUC because he was a late breakout guy in terms of breakout age and a little bit older prospect, but he wasn't quite as old. but you have to kind of factor in all the variables. He was a Jucco transfer who absolutely lit it up at Jucco level. And then he went to Arizona State and lit it up there. So I don't know. It's just to me like you have to take in some of these variables that don't really fit into the typical like spreadsheet narrative or whatever when you're looking at just the pure stats with this guy.

So he's the type of guy I'm willing to take a chance on if we're talking about like a dynasty draft pick. I think teams are going to be the same way. I think he's just like a different type of guy and he's good enough to you know, just break the mold, I guess, of like what we'd expect from a guy that size. I think so too. And he's really intriguing.

I know that at number six, I know that you have the Philadelphia Eagles in your mock draft. You have them taking Jamar Chase. I guess like real quickly, why do you like Jamar Chase before we get to the discussion about Carson wants to trade affecting this pit. Yeah.

So with Chase, there's not a lot to not like. I mean, he's physical, tough. He's got the alpha mentality as like a true number one type guy. Really good at the catch point, really slippery after the catch, got explosive acceleration.

Touchdown machine. He led to Nation in touchdowns last year playing on the same team as Justin Jefferson. So, I mean, that's saying something. And I just think he's an overall very very good player he there there's a few things that like kind of i think people are a little bit worried about he's not a true burner in the sense he's not going to like you know run past the defense necessarily he's got very good acceleration but maybe

not top end speed um and he's he's not like as big as you think he plays bigger than he is i think you know based on what he's listed at he's listed at like six foot even so um he reminds me a lot of like of a Devante Adams where the speed isn't going to get you. It's more just the way he plays, the physicality, the route running, things like that. Gotcha. And I like Chase as a prospect too. But the big question here, and you wrote this before, or you published your mock draft before the Carson Wentz trade happened. Yeah.

Yeah. In your mock, you had, you know, the top quarterbacks, you know, going before the number six pick here. and then Trey Lance kind of slipping out of the top 10. So the question is, if the Eagles have a chance to take Trey Lance at number six, or even either Zach Wilson or Justin Fields, if they were to slip, do you think that Philadelphia would take one of those guys at that spot?

That is a tough question. I think they would. I don't know for sure if they feel super confidently that Jalen Hertz is the guy. Obviously, they took him last year in the second round, So they obviously felt good enough about him to be like, this is a type of guy that we want on our team. But I don't know if necessarily they saw him immediately being the starter. I don't think they could necessarily foresee whence just completely falling apart.

So I think anything is open at this point. You know, if Fields falls there, I don't think Wilson's going to fall there, at least based on what we know now. But if Fields were to fall, a couple more spots, yeah, I think they could take him. I think they might. I love Hertz too. Like it's, it's so tough because I love Hertz, and I think Hertz is going to be good,

but I think that there's still some question marks about him as like a full-time starter long-term. Yeah, I think so too. And it's really intriguing because if they were to take one of these young quarterbacks, you know, one of the top four guys, then it creates a whole other,

you know, kind of QB decision that they had similar to last year. And similar to what Jaylen Hertz has kind of gone through his entire career it feels like. Seriously. Are they going to trade him then right away too? Because yeah, it's just I don't know. The Eagles are kind of a mess right now. If it were me, I'd probably roll with Hertz. I feel like he's, I feel like people are still underestimating him, even though he, you know, he had his ups and downs as a starter as we kind of closed out the season last year, but I still feel like there's something there for them. I think he's the type of guy that you

can build an offense around. So if I were them, you know, that's a tough decision if Fields falls there, but I do like fields a little bit more, but like organizationally speaking, it's going to be a difficult decision for them just because then they're going to have a similar situation where they got two quarterbacks and, you know, you got different camps probably trying to get different guys as a starter. So it's going to be interesting. Yeah. Jaylen Hurts only has four career starts, appeared in 15 games, you know, half the time as a kind of a Wildcat quarterback for the Eagles last year.

Ended up completing 52% of his passes, six touchdowns, four pitch. 7.2 yards per attempt. That's pretty much the guy that we saw. It felt like watching him play that we saw, similar to the guy that we saw both Alabama and Oklahoma. And he kind of overperformed, at least in my opinion,

which makes me think that he has some more potential, at least to keep climbing and ascending as an NFL quarterback. So I'd be shocked, but it's also the Philadelphia Eagles, and they weren't shy from, you know, selecting a backup or not even a backup passer, a potential successor to their guy

when they have a potential franchise quarterback on staff. So I guess it wouldn't be too surprising. That being said, the Eagles just traded away a North Dakota State quarterback prospect. Carson once kind of jumped on the scene out of nowhere, at least for me. And we have another North Dakota state guy who would be available at number six in your mock draft here in Trey Lance.

And so let's dig into this guy a little bit. How likely do you feel that he would slip this far? So I think that there's a, like historically speaking, you don't typically see like four or five quarterbacks go on the top 10. Even in some of the best quarterback classes, you see guys fall a few spots down like 10, 11, 12. So I don't think it's, I definitely think it's in the realm of possibility that he's there at number six or whatever

where the Eagles are picking. and I think there's a solid chance he is there. I don't think him being a North Dakota state guy will necessarily eliminate him, take him off our board. But the Eagles have been such a cluster lately that it's one of those things were like, do we really want to deal with this?

You know what I mean? I don't know if they necessarily want to go down that road. So I think he's a good player, and I think he's got a ton of talent. His tools are amazing. But there's a lot of similar questions where, you know, didn't face anybody like on the highest level.

played one game this past season, really only a starter for one year. And it was a super run heavy offense. I mean, his stats are off the charts, but there's just a lot of uncertainty there. It just feels like that would be inviting a media circus in a way. I don't know if they're really willing to go down that road. Or I don't know if they maybe they don't even pay attention to that. Who knows? And that's the big.

I feel like the media circus has been following the Eagles everything. They won the Super Bowl feels like. Yeah. It's like nothing, nothing new, I guess. And it's like with Trey Lance, I mean, especially for him, like you mentioned, he'd be coming from a small school going into Philadelphia. I don't know how that would work, you know, for him coming from North Dakota State there. I mean, it blows my mind that he played just one game, you know, last year. And, you know, watching that game back, I feel like that's not even really worth evaluating if you were going to go back and look at Trey Lance's body work.

I feel like, you know, felt kind of like a scrimmage where. a guy just kind of stepped on to the field and no warm up whatsoever and just kind of did his thing. But, you know, looking at the tape over before, there's definitely, you know, I see why people are so intrigued by him. He's a big dude can run like a deer and can sling the ball downfield super easily, which, you know, and he doesn't make too many bad decisions. I think he would believe he threw just one pick in that 2019 campaign. Correct me if I'm wrong. But he had zero picks in that season. He threw one pick in the 2020 game, the one game he.

had. It was his only college pick. So, yeah, I totally agree with you. I really like him, actually. I'm pretty high on him. I think he has a chance to be really good. It's sort of, it's funny how I think opinions change and what's acceptable changes

as we learn more things like the Josh Allen transformation in the NFL this year. I think it's going to drive a lot of more open-mindedness, at least for me, where I'm just like, if you got the tools, man, And if you get into the right situation and you can be coached up, I think absolutely you have a chance of being a good NFL quarterback. It's situational, maybe situational dependent.

I think that Josh Allen has a great situation with what happened in Buffalo this year, good offensive coordinator, good, you know, downfield weapons, got Stefan Diggs. All that stuff kind of like came together for him. But I do think it's going to, it's going to give guys like Lance where you don't have a lot of, you know, he doesn't have the typical route to the NFL. I think it's going to give him a chance to be a high draft pick and, you know, buy him some time in the NFL because I do think he has all the same, like similar tools as Josh Allen, except for he's way more accurate coming out of college. He's a pretty accurate guy, big arm, very mobile, like he said,

like a really good frame. It's basically the prototype-looking quarterback. You just need to kind of like develop him. I think that's super interesting because you mentioned like the Josh Allen archetype kind of give, or at least maybe not archetype, But his transformation giving these quarterbacks so much more leeway, or at least teams being willing to, like we mentioned earlier, chasing that upside of someone like Trey Lance,

and especially if he's more polished as a prospect coming in, it definitely makes it interesting. As our producer Arjuna pointed out earlier today, there are no first-round quarterbacks from the 2009 and 2016 drafts who are with their original team. So it makes it really fascinating that teams are so willing to take these and kind of also quickly say, all right, we know what we have here,

we're ready to move on. So skipping down a little bit further into your mock draft, you have the Patriots of number 15 taking edge rusher Gregor Gregor Grosso from Miami. And still on the board would be Mack Jones,

quarterback from Alabama. Do you think that Mac Jones would slip past New England or do you feel like he could be a potential choice there for the Patriots? Man, it's so tough because, you know, obviously there's the connection, the personal connection between Savin and Belichick so they can share information or whatever and he can give his unfiltered take on whether Mack Jones is going to be the guy in the NFL or not. I think there's a solid chance that they could be interested at that spot. I don't know if necessarily he's a top 15,

caliber quarterback. I think he's a very, and I said this on the Bill Simmons podcast, he's like a good game manager, and I don't even mean that in a pejorative way. Like, he's a good game manager. He's accurate, decisive. You know, he's, he makes good decisions.

He's not afraid to check it down, and I say that in a good way. Like, he gets the ball out, doesn't take too many sacks, keeps the chains moving, all those things. But physically speaking, he's not mobile. He's not going to,

much in terms of out-of-structure stuff. You know, he doesn't have a strong arm, I would say. It's just an average to below-average arm. So, and he has some, he has a few issues with, like, falling away from passes as he's, like, seeing pressure coming at him and things like that. So I like, I actually like Mac Jones. I think he, I comped him to Matt Ryan,

like, in the right situation. And this is me knowing that Matt Ryan was the MVP of the NFL during one season. But, like, I do think that, Ryan excels in a situation where he's got a strong support group. You know what I mean? Like a strong offense that, you know, with good receivers, and that's exactly what we saw from Matt Jones this year is, you know, in that offense and with that supporting cast,

he could really put up incredible numbers. And I think in the right system he could be a good starter in the NFL. But I just think his downside is much, much lower than some of these other guys based on like his tools, I guess. Right, right. And the skill set, I feel like it's the biggest question because, again, like, the NFL today requires so much athleticism. Doug Ferrar from USA Today wrote a really, really good column, you know, kind of detailing how Mac Jones doesn't do great under pressure, at least out of structure. And that's really the big question mark for him moving forward and especially kind of being representing like a dying archetype, you know, as an NFL quarterback. It's got, it's really, really interesting.

Yeah, it's like one of those things where you're not, he's not going to, I don't. know if he's the type of quarterback who will elevate the offense around him. He's the type of quarterback who can operate in offense when there's a good system and good players around him, if that makes any sense. And so are the Patriots that team? They're not right now. I don't think. So I'm not sure that they're the, I don't know if they would be willing to be like, yeah, we'll take this guy because we think we can win in 20, you know, 2021 or whatever. And so that's kind of the reason I went another direction here. Okay, I got one more quick question for you. Again, you can

follow along with us at NFL draft. The ringer.com to see Danny's mock. But surprisingly enough, you know, I guess the phrase on Twitter that's thrown around is, running backs don't matter,

but you have two being selected in the first round. You got the Miami Dolphin selecting Travis Zetian at 18 and then Najee Harris going through the Buffalo Bills later on at 29. So I guess like, can you explain your reasoning on having

two tailings? back's being selected in the first round year. Well, first off, this is maybe not the most likely scenario. I think it's more likely we see one running back going the first round. But in this case, I just looked at the needs for these teams and kind of like, that's the big way that I approach the mock drafts right now. It's like team needs going into next year, filling holes. The dolphins, to me, they're a well-coached team.

They have a good defense. possibly like a championship caliber defense. They just need to get more explosive on offense. The offense needs to start carrying its own weight in terms of like putting all three to get three of those groups together. And so, you know, getting a guy like Devante Smith with their first round pick,

he's a playmaker. He's a go-to guy immediately, I think, is an upgrade for that offense. Then getting a home run hitter like ATN where you can give him the ball on a drawplay and he might take it to the house. You know what I mean? He's that fast. He's that explosive. He's not necessarily a grinding type running back where he's going to carry the ball 30 times a game.

But he is a explosive, like drag racer acceleration type guy where he just hits top speed immediately. So in the screen game, he's very good. And get him in space, he's very good. So I just think having an outlet guy like him where you have a legitimate home run hitter at the running back position. They got by with some, they got by with Gaskin. they got by with Ahmed this year. Those guys were actually surprisingly better than we thought they'd be, but those are two undrafted guys or late-round pick.

I can't remember if Gaskin was drafted or not, but to me it's like that immediately, getting those two guys on the field makes this offense so much better immediately, and it helps Tua immediately, like in year two, take a jump. So where it would, the dolphins have been a team that have been pretty good about, you know, using their draft picks on, what we would consider the right positions in the early rounds, corners, you know, offensive line and edge and all things like that.

But in this case, it might make sense for them to go running back. Gotcha. No, I really like Etienne, especially for the reason you mentioned, being able to be an asset in the passing game as an explosive option. I feel like that's what's really intriguing about him. And then for Najee, he, he to me, it might be another, like a little bit of a luxury pick for the bills, but they're just so ready. They're still, they're like a Super Bowl team.

still. Agreed. And their run game was really bad last year. And so getting a guy like him a three down back, again, he's like, he's like ETN where you can use him in the passing game. He's huge. He can boxes out guys like in the passing game. So I think, you know, he's another guy that, again, like it might be a little bit of a

luxury pick, but I think he's the type of player that can elevate that offense in year one, hit the ground running and help that team win in 2021. on. Definitely. Definitely. All right. Well, that's going to wrap up. Again, you can check out Danny's mock draft and his big board on NFLdraft.

Theringer.com. That'll wrap it up for our first segment. When we come back, D.K. and I will be joined by the brilliant Roger Sherman to give out some winners and losers for a lack of NFL combine this year. All that more right after this.

Welcome back to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Caitlin Jones, alongside Danny Kelly. We just wrapped up a great Q&A about his mock draft 1.0, which again, you can check out at NFLdraft. Dot the ringer.com. Joining us now, the great Roger Sherman. You can follow him on Twitter at Roger. How you doing, man?

Roger. Hey, thanks for him. Let's, I need to talk slightly less accurately about the NFL draft than Danny. Oh, yeah, because mock drafts are so accurate. I love it. I got like four right last year or something. That's pretty solid. That's one eighth of them.

How many did you get through before it got messed up? Oh, off the top of my head, I think I got like the first two or three right and then it all went to hell. I got a few, I got a few like throw-ins at the end. I think I did end up getting like six right or something, which is actually pretty good. That is good. A few years ago. I did a piece about people who do seven round mock drafts.

Oh, God. And I went through every single one of them. And I think like three people got a draft pick right after like the fourth round. Yeah. It's like the most intense. And it is interesting to see how people are thinking about what prospects teams might want or like what type of player they're looking for. But the hit rate is as close to zero as possible. It's not great.

It's not great. So if you feel that, if you, if you were annoyed at who I picked, then don't worry because it's probably not going to happen. Exactly. See, you can yell about Zach Wilson and whoever else you want to yell about at Danny. Whenever he gets a pick wrong, you'll be there all day. It's the thinking that goes into it. That's interesting.

It is. Thank you. Thank you. Anyway, Roger, we brought you up because during the NFL season, you put together a weekly column known as winners and lose. And it's some of the most funny, thoughtful column, like piece of content that I would read on a weekly basis, by the way. It's super fun. And so we're going to incorporate that with the NFL draft here because obviously COVID-19 pandemic, you know, upended the college football season.

And like everything was kind of uneven as far as for prospects. You know, you have some guys who played one game like Trey Lance and others who played a full season. And similarly to the NFL draft. process, it's going to be completely affected. You know, in January, the league announced that, you know, scouting combine will completely change formats. There's going to be no in-person workouts. There's only going to be pro days.

Interviews and psychological testing will be virtual. And there's going to be limited in-person medical exam. So with all that mind, we're going to discuss some of the winners and losers of the draft season as it officially gets underway. So, Roger, I'm going to start with you. Who is your first winner of draft season? For people, I think the person who most benefits from the fact that so much stuff is not happening as normal as Mac Jones, the Alabama quarterback, who I don't think has any interesting physical traits whatsoever. Yeah.

And, you know, it doesn't have a great arm, can't really move. But he plays the game really well. He had incredible statistics. You know, he operates well in the pocket, which is not something that shows up at the combine. something that really only shows up when you're playing football. So I think he'll be the person that benefits the most from, you know, we're just going to watch the 2020 college football season

and decide who's good off of that as opposed to, you know, having you do drills. What do you think he would have run in the 40? I'm sure he wouldn't not have probably done it. I think he would have finished by the draft. So Tom Brady ran a 5-2-8 Because I know he gets some he get he gets some comps to Tom Brady

And I've actually talked about this he did he moves a little bit like Tom Brady But I think I would say like that would be the over under for me is like five three I was gonna say the under what do you get the under do you think I'm taking the under You know how many how many rushing yards back Jones had this year How many 14 It's like It's it's almost funnier that he got

Positive Just a little bit Like if it's negative 200 yards You know the guy got sacked a lot But you know 14 about a yard a game Almost No actually he passed a yard a game

He played 13 games He got 14 yards So this is the guy who's going to go out there And get you a yard every day screams modern NFL. Danny, who's your winner of draft season so far? So going back to Devante Smith, I think, you know, obviously the concerns about his size and all that. He did not weigh in when he went to the senior bowl.

I'm guessing if he went to the combine, they probably, his agent probably would have advised to not do it again just to like keep the media off him for that, I guess, or whatever. But it's sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. a deal for him. So I think that number one, that that probably helps alleviate things. The Combine is just so, it's just like a media circus and there's so many people there and it's such a big deal. Like the pro days are still going to happen or whatever, like the, whatever these modified pro days look like. So he still may get weighed in, but it's just going to be, I feel like it's going to be less of a big deal that he's not getting weighed in. The other thing is, and I don't know, he plays fast to me. He does not look slow to me at whatsoever when he plays.

But there's rumors or reports out there that. he would not have run well. Like he would have run in the four or fives or something like that. And so the combination of him being skinny and running slow, I think, would have potentially dampened his draft stock slightly. I don't know how seriously teams take it, but it's one of those things that would have been, I think, a narrative. And so he benefits from not having to go through that circus in my mind.

Yeah, he's a dude that glides on tape. Totally. He's really fun to watch, man. Like, he won the Heisman. As a wider seeer. That's a wide receiver. Which had it been done in forever and seems kind of functionally impossible. Right.

But he just was so good at getting open in every possible way. And that's another skill that doesn't necessarily show up in testing. Totally. The other thing I think about Devante Smith that makes him an amazing player that wouldn't, or that makes that I like about him that doesn't necessarily show up on testing is that he just has the longest arms I've ever seen. Like, I guess that would show up on the vert, but like not, there's nothing. They don't just test like, oh, how long could you, could you like stick your forearm into something, like under the couch and get something out from under that? That's not a combine joke.

But he has this longest, skinniest arms I've ever seen. And that's actually something that's useful and makes him one of the things that makes him such a fascinating player. I love that. He's so good at contested catches and being like he plays big at the catch point, which is one of those things that you have to remember when you're talking about he's skinny is he's so good in contested catch situations. And he can go up really high and get the ball. Like he is a quarterback's best friend in that way that he has this massive catch radius. just throw it in his direction, he'll come down with it.

So, yeah, the idea, I don't know, going back to again what we said earlier, I'm just not, I'm not too worried about him being the size that he is. So we both went with the Alabama passing game. Things just keep getting better for Alabama football. Seriously, yeah, winner is Nick Saban.

So, I have Zach Wilson. Obviously, we, I think, going into the whole process, I think, into the whole year. We were trying to figure out who would be that Joe Burroughs' prospect that kind of catches our eye amongst the quarterback class because we knew, we knew Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence were going to be within that top two conversation. But for Wilson to really take advantage of, I know that they played a kind of a weaker

schedule than what most would have liked to see him play. But for him to have risen to this point where we have maybe even a, even if it's it's convoluted is a conversation of whether Zach Wilson is better than Justin Fields or better than Trevor Lawrence for some people. I mean, the fact that that's even a discussion at this point, because

last year, we knew that he was draftable. He was a good prospect, but he took that next step and really dominated to the point where he's going to be a top five pick this year, which is pretty incredible. Yeah, I think he didn't, he didn't have anything to, I don't know how much he could have gained

going, like doing anything at the combine, right? because he's already overtaken fields as the consensus number two guy, I guess, in a lot of people's minds. And then, you know, maybe he runs a fast 40 and that impresses people. I'm not sure what he would have done to, like, get more hype coming out of the combine. Maybe just dinking around on the side where, like, the cameras catch him making crazy throws or something like that, where he's throwing at 70 yards or whatever downfield. Maybe that would do it.

But I'm with you. I think, you know, he's just riding. whatever it is, the hype train that he's on right now is already like functional enough to get him to the number two spot probably. Do you think, where would you put him on your quarterback list? For me, he's number three behind Justin Fields, but it's not by much. Like I get why people think he could be better because they're chasing the ceiling based on the archetypes that they see in the NFL right now when you look at Rogers, Mahomes, Josh Allen. But the difference is he wasn't playing against top tier competition. I think when you look at the tape, there's still some question marks of whether he's consistently leading targets.

And then at the same time, he's six foot one and he's really, really thin. I trust, I've learned when I was a kid, I accidentally, so I thought Anthony Davis would not be good because he was so skinny. Then he went to the NBA and, you know, he bulked up. So I trust NFL or professional teams to, you know, bulk up their players. but I don't know if Zach Wilson necessarily has the frame to be as physical as he was in college where he was running in the dudes and running them over. I mean, there's that chance, but I don't see that happening consistently. So you had some real proto bad draft takes when you were in high school. Anthony Davis was like the most obvious. So yeah, no, that's the thing. I was like,

I was like, man, he's a guard. He's a giant guard. I mean, he is a giant guard, but he's also going to fill out. Like, I didn't realize that as a kid. Forgive me. Hopefully, that doesn't discount me from any takes that I have as a 20. No, no. That was the training grounds. You were working out what makes a good take and what does. Oh, yes.

Are you? Oh, yeah. Workshop of all kinds of takes. Yeah. I'm glad you got that out of the way back of the day. Because now you would be that one guy who's saying, actually, Zach Wilson is the best quarterback. There is.

Yeah. I'm not, I'm not that guy. Let's jump to our losers real quick. Danny, let's start with you this time. Who do you think doesn't benefit from having a combine this year? So I wanted to picture in my mind, the guy that was going to come out of the combine that had just completely blown up the combine, right? Like generated tons of hype, run really fast, jump really high, all that stuff.

And Jalen Waddle, I think, could have been that guy, but I didn't want to go with another Alabama guy. So I went with Travis ETN of Clemson. We can stop talking about Alabama. people. And to me, he's like the most, one of the most explosive athletes in this draft, right? And so he could have probably run a very fast 40. I think he's got, you know, good.

He probably would have done really well in the explosive drills, like vertical and broad jump and things like that. So maybe he's the type of guy that doesn't, he doesn't get that combine bump heading into the draft that might make him like an actual first. round pick. Like maybe now he'll be an early second round pick. So that's that just came in my mind. I don't think he's necessarily going to, he's not going to be hurt dramatically by this, but something like that where you go in and completely blow up the combine and get everybody talking buzzing about it. They could have like pushed him up a little bit. At least he's someone who

like was able to show his skills very clearly on a high level. Yeah. Yeah. Years and years. yeah absolutely he i mean that's the kind of guy that you didn't really need it like it's almost like you're double counting it at the combine but a lot of people i think feel like do double count things that happen at the combine like we know this guy was fast but then he was really fast and we're going to like give him a bump for that but um right yeah roger what about you who's your loser for me it's um basically every player from below the fbs level that is not trey lance I think it was hurt massively by, you know, this change schedule. We know that there are good players there.

You know, last year we saw James Robinson, you know, go undrafted and become a, you know, basically a star for the Jaguars. And, you know, even the FCS guys who did get drafted last year with no pro days, there were fewer FCS players drafted just six than in any draft ever. And the few guys that do get drafted are guys like Jeremy Chin who show up at the combine and absolutely show out. They're guys who haven't picked the Scouts radar. And you just love hearing these stories of guys like there's a great story that was told

by Robert Clemco about Austin Echler, who was at this pro day. He played a division two college, but he got invited to Colorado's pro day. And like the scouts didn't really know who he was, but he showed up and was incredible. and he worked his way onto a team, and now he's a millionaire. And these are the sort of stories that happen. And right now this year, those guys are just not going to get a chance,

even less of a chance than they'd gotten last year, because at least last year they had already played, you know, a season and teams that knew about them, but this year the FCS teams are playing in the spring. And there's outside of Trey Lance, and this is teammate, Dylan Radens, there's probably just not going to be guys from the FCS drafted at all. You know, maybe some guys day two, day three.

But really that whole hundreds of schools that produce prospects every year, normally you see about 15 to 20 guys get drafted this year, probably not going to get 10. Wow. I didn't really think about the depth of that because the 15 to 20 guys, that's completely different than maybe just one or two. Yeah. And, you know, even guys who, you know, maybe don't get drafted, but at least you get seen, you get at these pro days, maybe you get invited somehow.

I just don't know how they're going to make it this year. Luckily, they did play that showcase game for Tray Lance. Everyone knew he was, everyone knew he was going to make it. So it'll, there's a, they'll get that shine at that level for, because with these guys, they're not obvious players who, out his prospects, they kind of need to find it elsewhere. And historically, that's happened at Combine and that's happened at ProDays. And I don't know where it's going to happen this year. Dang.

Do you pick the really serious subject there? No, you're fine. No, no, no, no. We're all just so depressed now. Oh, man. Like every FCS player that we didn't get the hero, like that, that's seriously, it's unfortunate. But, yeah, there are probable stars out there.

There are. There are. Yeah. And that's the thing. So that's kind of the trademark of your winners and losers column, though. You do a really good job of navigating the space between very serious and also having fun. So I tried to play a little, like a little fun choice here. I pick New Era because the Combine, you see the players, they're not wearing the Under Armors,

was it the underwear or whatever you want to call it? They're little jumpsuits that they wear during the Combine. They wear new era stuff now. And New Air is having a five-year deal with the NFL, and they won't be able to have their stuff on display because the NFL Combine is not happening. So New Era was my loser of... New Era makes like shirts and...

So when Henry Rhodes is running his 40-time, he is in a new era, tight fit, whatever you want to call. It's not Under Arm anymore. Does that include all like the sweatshirts and all the swag that the players get when they're like going to and from, for meetings and stuff because that stuff is cool. Like I've always thought the sweatshirts that they wear and get to that they get with their numbers on it are really cool.

They sell that stuff, man. You're so right because like when I think of the NFL draft combat in the back of my head, I think about Under Armour. I think about those little vests they wear that, you know, it still shows their muscles on the sleeves. You know, like really slick. And I'm thinking, well, yeah, you wear Under Armour when you work out. And now I'm kind of thinking about this.

I kind of thought New Era only made hats. That's what I thought too. So literally, this was their chance to shine. Exactly. Wow, that's money down the drain. Exactly.

Exactly. That's brutal for New Era, which is trying to pivot. They had to go and buy like all the material for clothes because previously they only made hats. To pay someone to like sell them and whatnot. They never met anyone who made shirts before. Am I way off base on this? Do you own anything by New Era that is not a hat?

Not that I know of. New Era Cap Company, hats and apparel. Their website says hats and apparel. It's like there's a gap there, mainly hats. I had no idea that they, this is mind-blowing. Yeah, they've pivoted to lifestyle brand and signed a five-year deal with the NFL. Brutal. Wow.

Brutal. Well, that was a fun way to kind of wrap. things up here. Yes, guys definitely aren't going to get the new era hats. Oh, man. Damn.

She's, yeah. They really needed it, too. Oh, gentlemen, D.K. Roger, thank you so much for joining beyond this. If you guys

want to listen again, you can check us out on the Ringer podcast network. This has been the Ringer NFL show. Thanks for listening.