The Ringer NFL Show - Breaking Down the Jon Gruden Report From a Player Perspective

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

Jason, James, and Ryan start by discussing the fallout after it was revealed that former Las Vegas Raiders coach Jon Gruden was sending racist, homophobic, and misogynistic emails. Then they discuss Lamar Jackson’s incredible performance against the Colts on 'Monday Night Football'. Lastly, they finish up by checking in on who they think are the best teams in the NFL a month into the season. Hosts: Jason Goff, James Jones, and Ryan Shazier Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's up everybody. I'm JJ John G. And I'm Jason Gough. And if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the big apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests.

Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines. So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome in to another Tuesday edition of the Ringer NFL show. As always, Jason Gough, Ryan Shazier, and James Jones with you. And fellas, before we get to any of the games that were played on Sunday night, Monday night, or any of the rest of the week five action that we consumed, we got to get to the story, not just of the day,

but probably going to be of the week and one of the bigger stories that we have had in the NFL, you know, I guess in the last, you know, year, because last year was. It was a COVID year, and we talked a lot about the football and how the fans weren't in the stands. Now we get into this year, and everybody's ready to roll. James Jones has talked a lot about his former franchise that he played for the Raiders, and now they're in Las Vegas. Big, beautiful stadium, and Vegas is buzzing. Every pregame is a show.

Every half game was a show. Halftime, I should say, was a show. Saw the Real Sports with Brian Gumble episode where Mark Davis talked about what the Raiders meant to him. And now we get the news. of emails that have been found during the Washington football team investigation, where John Gruden was speaking in homophobic, misogynistic, and racist slurs in emails to Bruce Allen and others in the Washington organization. He mentioned Michael Sam, he mentioned Roger Goodell, he mentioned Eric Reed.

Fellas, you guys as former players in understanding the hierarchy of the NFL and who runs the building, especially when you got a 10-year copy. track. How do you guys feel about this situation? And then we'll, you know, we'll get into other layers of what actually took place. To me, first of all, what John Grutter was doing and was saying about other people was wrong. I don't, I don't feel anybody should be able to talk behind somebody back about how they feel about somebody without saying it to their face. Secondly, you can't lead others when you're doing things like this because you're, you have people on your team that are African-American.

You have people that you're around that you're constantly disrespecting. So to me, I think the right decision was made to move past John Gruen. Well, for me, it's for living in the Bay Area, playing for the Raiders. Number one, this is now what Al Davis stood for. Al Davis was one of the first owners

to give black people, jobs and opportunities and you know you just listen to him talk and and be around him and he absolutely loved his player so I think Mark Davis was put in a put in a very hard situation when these emails came out because this is not what his dad stood for when his dad started this organization or bought this organization you know this is this is not what he stood for and number one the time that we're in right now man, you know, when you look about how we all trying to get in this thing together as an NFL organization, NFL league, whatever, and trying to end this stuff and end this racism and in, you know, disrespecting women. And, you know, this is this is just crazy.

And for me, you know, I kind of listen to Keishan a little bit today. And, you know, I kind of feel the same way. you know, I kind of feel like this is, I kind of feel like this is Gruden. You know what I mean? Like I kind of feel like Keishan said today, like, you know, Gruden reminds him of a used car salesman, you know, where he just really tried to sweet talk you, but, you know, shoot, you know, the real, you know what I'm saying?

And even when he stood up there in his press conference and he said what he had to say, you know, and then a couple of players came behind him and said what they had to say, I just, it just rubbed me the wrong way a little bit because I didn't believe him. You know what I'm saying? But it's just, it's just a cold situation, man, that he would even send emails like that talking about, you know, Damari Smith talking about Eric Reed, you know, talking about, you know, Michael Sam and those guys. And then they get up there on TV, man, and say something else and, you know, and act like he's on the side with the players and, you know, and act like he's backing these people and act like, you know, he's, a guy that's trying to, like, trying to bring a bunch of men together and, you know,

unity and all that type stuff and then to send out emails like this. And like I said, for me, I could see if it was just one email, fellas. But when you got multiple emails, that's kind of how you feel, huh? That's what you are. That's what you are. Yeah, you know, I can see if it was just one. But when you start sending out multiple emails like that, man, that, that's who you are as a person. But it's absolutely disgusting just to hear the email and hear what was said on there about rooting, you know, emailing and talking about people, man, black people, gay people, you know, Roger Vidal, you know, Eric Reed. It's just disgusting to hear that.

And I think this is the absolutely right decision. James, like another thing, too, man, like, I was even watching TV this morning. They said that him and Bruce Allen was even sitting in top of his photos of the cheerleaders and everything. And I'm like, man, this is this type of stuff. We teach our kids to stop, not even do. To be real, like, all these are all the, all the behaviors we try to tell our kids not to have. You know, and these are grown men, lead to other men, and they're acting this behavior, man.

So to me, I feel like it's understatement, like you said, John, like, this is who John is. Like, I don't know, like, whenever, I always watched them and always felt a little funny about them, but, you know, everybody says he's a great coach, but. And that's the problem. Yeah. And that's the problem, Ryan. So I think all of this is bullshit. And I'm going to tell you why.

John Gruden shouldn't have had the chance to resign. Let me start there. I agree that. Let me start there. There's no way in hell that you don't immediately and put out loudly and forcefully that you are terminating the contract of John Gruden to be the Las Vegas Raiders head coach.

If Mark Davis wanted to send a message, forget all, and I'm trying not to curse, but forget all this resignation shit. John Gruden has forcefully put his stamp and character on the NFL for 15, 20 years now. So the same bravado and the same force and the same character with all the Chucky dolls and all other bullshit, all that, I want the same energy on the way out. because this dude has been operating. I don't care about the sorries. You ain't got to say sorry to me. You got to say sorry to D'Moor Smith. You got to say sorry to Eric Reed.

You got to say sorry to Michael Sam. You got to say sorry to Roger Goodell. Whoever you disrespected, that's between you and them. The prevailing thought for me is this ain't, if two dudes with that kind of stature in the NFL feel it's okay to do that, how many other people are running around reckless? There's a lot of scared people running around the NFL this morning, This is how it happens, right?

You flip one dude and all of a sudden, them dominoes start to fall. When I had a chance to cover the Donald of Sterling stuff, all the way here in Chicago and calling people out there in L.A., you know how many NBA owners were running around scared as hell because that kind of talk is commonplace, what he said, about magic, right? There are a lot of people who know how they've been there. And that's why you could put hashtag in racism on each Saturday in zone, right?

The first thing that I thought of is, why isn't he fired? The second thing I thought of was Colin Kaepernick. Because these are the people that make the decisions in the NFL. And what they said to me, and y'all have worn the helmets, y'all have taken the battle wounds, y'all have made the money, y'all have done everything that the NFL experience provides. To me, what this said to me, because everybody made a big stink of it

when Laura Ingraham told LeBron James to shut up and dribble, what this says to me, and I ain't going to say the word, but this says shut up and play. You know what? If you're in the LGBTQ community, pick a slur. If you're a woman, pick, pick a slur. If you're an African-American man, pick a slur. That's what this says to me.

And there shouldn't be any safe space for it, man. That, like, at some point, you got to be weeded out. And if you want to change, cool, if you don't, you can go to that little island where they're going to accept it. Trust me, there's an island brewing right now where a bunch of these people are at. that's going to accept this shit. I'm tired, man.

Seriously, I have a four-year-old son, right? And everybody on this feed, on this show, has children. You mean to tell me that these are the people that at some point, if my son is good enough to end, my son ain't going to play no sports? But you mean to tell me these are the type of people that you're about to put in charge of your kids because football over everything?

Like, that's the other thing, too. Football is so powerful that this kind of shit can take place and people can know about it. But guess what? Winning coach, right? Quarterback coach, quarterback camp. This man worked next to people from the LGBTQ community that I know of. How you think they feel today?

How you think they think about every interaction they've had with this man? He had an active player. Like somebody that recently just came out. But that's the thing though, Ryan. No matter how, like there's a lot of people who can look past stuff if they help and their cause. Like, what kind of person are you in the dark? And that's exactly what he showed everybody.

He showed everybody what kind of person can be roaming around an NFL sideline just because he's good at football, just because he's good at coaching football. Ain't no place for this, man. There's none, right? Like, you're talking about emails. I have jumped out of group chats where I've seen some things. I'm like, yo, not for me. I can't be a part of this.

I'm out of here, y'all. And nobody's perfect, right? but there's a line that you cross when you think, and we can get to the privilege part of it too. I'm going to tell you right now, you can't really be a black coach engaging in this, especially, you know, not just especially these days, but hell, I think at any time, right?

We've always wondered, and I've always, I've always. You're not resigning, I tell you that. Yeah, you're getting your ass fired. I've always wondered, fellas, like, you know, outside of Herman Edwards, like, who's the loud, boisterous black coach? who can mix it up like the Rex Ryans and the John Gruden's of the world. Who's that guy?

You look at Art Shell, you look at Lovie Smith. You know, Mike Tomlin could get mad at you, but Mike Tomlin has a real, you know, fundamentally baseline calm demeanor. He just talks sternly, right? There's a reason why these tropes matter, right? Because there's a whole bunch of, I'm not down with racism,

but replies to Damari Smith, DeMorris Smith, Twitter feed, when he detailed what was happening. There's a whole button. And every one of them got Dak Prescott as their avatar or got Sequin Barclay as their avatar. This is the thinking. People separate how they feel about African Americans in the LGBTQ community because you're a football player. You're supposed to play football.

I'm supposed to rule for football. I don't have to think about your community or what you go through as a person. That's exactly what this man was saying in these emails. To hell with, hey, you're trying to ruin football by forcing gay. on the team. You're trying, Roger Gavell, because he's worried about player safety because there was a $700 million loss. Like, that's just business. That's just business. They don't want to keep getting sued. So yeah, y'all, concussions are real. And this is what we got to tell y'all. So we don't have to keep getting sued. You're mad because the safety of the game is more important

these days. Like, think about what he's saying. He's saying that I don't give a shit about anybody other than winning football games. And I can move brazenly through emails with a another, he's not even in the game when he's sending this. He is in the Monday night football booth. So just, like, for real, when we start to talk, everybody likes to act like there's some racism boogeyman under black people's beds. And then shit like this pops up.

And you see exactly why people feel the way they feel. And it's not victim syndrome and all this other shit because before he got fired, well, before he should have been fired yesterday, everybody in their mom couldn't wait to put on them capes. And I'm talking about people at these networks. I can't wait to hear what NFL radio going to say about this today. Guess what they're going to say? Not a damn thing.

We're talking football. So it's going to continue to happen. And these people need to be weeded out. If you need to go to sensitivity training on his own time, enjoy yourself, partner. But he shouldn't wrong another NFL sideline because I don't know another black man that could possibly play for him. He can.

He can. Number one, yeah, number one, what he's done, man, he can't. And I guarantee you, players that play for Gruden that is waking for however many long in the 90s and two towns. This last week against the Bears, you think that was the right Raiders team? Like, for real. Like, that Raiders team probably knew about what was coming too. But what I'm getting at is they probably, like, we breaking down these easy meals,

they probably breaking down the little interactions they had where I, where they telling themselves right now, I knew he was like that. Or, man, this certain situations where they just had a feeling that he was. I guarantee it's a bunch of them right now. You know what I mean? That's playing somebody's situations back in their head, man, that they've had with rooting. And like I said, man, for me, one email, you know what I mean?

It's kind of like, oh, man, he tripping. You messed up. Yep. You're sending out 20 emails, you know, at the end of the day. You know, I know people don't want to hear it, but that's who you are, man. But they said that's James. What you put on film is who you are? That's it.

That's who you are. And guess what? On top of it, on top of it, what you're trying to do, and let's keep it real funky, what you're trying to do is find out who else is like you when you do it constantly. Like, it's kind of like pushing up on somebody and they're like, yo, I'm good. Right. Like, that's not how I roll, right? So if you continuously do it, you're trying to find out who, you know, the company among us, right?

Like, I'm sorry, man. Like, this is, there are a bunch of people waking up calling their law. is this morning. His nickname was Chuckie. Hey, what the dog did? Hey, he showed you one thing in the morning time in the daylight. And then at nighttime, he'll hold different animals.

Like, that's exactly what he did. He perceived to be something, and he was doing something else. And like we said, nobody's perfect. Everybody have things that they don't want people to know. Like, everybody. But, like, everybody thinks that they don't want to know ain't this. You know what I'm saying?

And this is what you can't be doing. Yeah. For dudes like y'all, too, like you said, James, sometimes you get the feeling. Like, we've all worked for bosses where it's like, I know how you get down at the crib. You know, I know you gargle with that word. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know how you get down, but this is what business is and you just have to go along with it until you're, you actualize or there's a reality of this is, this is exactly how they get down with the evidence. That's the other thing. Like, electronic transmission is tough. man. Like, if you getting down that way, then, you know, at some point, somebody's going, somebody's going to knock on your door with that. And everybody's like, well, it's a day

before the, before DeMora Smith, why 11 years later, all this other stuff? Like, why are you caping for how long he's not been a racist? If he stopped that day, if he stopped that day, then what? You know what I mean? Like, how many decisions have been made where he looks at a guy for being maybe not the football player that he might like in terms of, okay, I don't like a guy. Like Eric Reed, so you mean to tell me, if I'm out here saying, yo, I'm really upset about what's happening to my people on television, it's murder porn pretty much. If you were that dude and you fighting for that second job or that third job on a debt chart, it's easy to say, yo, hey, I was good enough.

I thought I was decent enough. But, man, my social interaction with my community as a football player might have got me cut? Like, all you're doing is telling the future players, hey, stay your ass in line, go run into somebody for four to ten years. And then when you're done, you know, you get to be in the ring of honor or something like that. Like, that's, it's, the psychology of that is, is ridiculous to me. And that's how we train people to stay in line, bro. And I just, I just don't like it. I just don't like it. All right. Well, now it's time for us to get to Ryan Shazir's man, who had one of the most incredible passing nights in recent history.

Never before has a quarterback completed 85% of his passes and thrown for over 400 yards. The guy he don't like. Yeah, yeah. You're wearing it. I already told him, hey, I say, hey, look, he looking better. You said it in a week two, that this one right, but we don't carry it. We don't carry it. It's cool.

It's cool. Hey, I got to hold that. I got to hold that. Lamar Jackson, 37 for 43, 400 plus yards, four touchdowns. When he lost that fumble that Darius Leonard picked up. By the way, I was watching that play like a couple of times since Darius Leonard, I don't know if he had any clue who was behind him. I think Darius Leonard like ran out of gas into 25 and tried the lateral that joint.

Like it looked like he didn't get his gait or didn't get his stride together and made a smart play. And laterally, I thought it was a lateral as well. It looked like he had an elephant on his back. Yeah, right. Right? Why are you ready so slow right now? Ryan, I'm like, he don't know who behind him.

He just knows that he's going to get caught. So when that happened, I was like, oh, I was like, damn, Lamar, this might be the ball game right here. It was still in the third quarter. And then he goes on to be Superman out there. That dude, that dude is special. And on top of it, I don't think that they can count on him as much as they are. And if it makes any sense, like, they're going to have to get some semblance of a running

game together and, you know, you ain't going to get no dudes off the street, but I think it's putting way too much on his shoulders. It was terrific to watch. Don't get me wrong, but they was in the overtime with the Colts, and the Colts ain't good. I'm sorry. And the real reason they went to overtime, too, though, man, if you lose your one, two, and three corner, like, yeah. Like, like, Lamar did this thing.

And at the end day, like, you play Who I does. So if somebody hurt. a, who are you going after? His backup. If his backup hurt, who are you going after his backup backup? That's exactly what you're doing. You know, so I don't, hey, man,

they did exactly what they had to do. Lamar's a dog. He's a dog. And like I said before, man, football, to me, quarterbacks are different than I used to see quarterbacks. You know, like now quarterbacks

have the complete game, you know? So, and Lamar's show, like, hey, man, I could do a little bit of everything, especially last night. I'm not going to lie. That lateral call was very questionable. Very, very questionable. Like, I don't understand how that was a legal forward pass.

But at the end of the day, you know, we have referees that know the rules better than the rulebook. So at the end of the day, Lamar did it. What he had to do, the Ravens ended up winning that game. You know, obviously I was cheering against those guys because I was cheering for my guys. That we needed the whole division to lose and we get the dub.

But at a day, they won. And, you know, when we played them, we're going to have to win. But at the day, Lamar did what he had to do. You know, he had 400 yards pass. And like you said, 85% throwing a ball. You can't ask anything better than that from your quarterback.

Then he also had 62 yards rushing. The only downfall he had was fumbling on the one-yard line. And they still didn't really give up any serious points after that. So, man, Lamar, Lamar's having a hell of a year right now. Yeah. And to be honest with you, man, Lamar is a wide receiver playing quarterback.

And what I mean by that is he's built to take these hits. Like everybody's always like, man, he can't take these hits over a season, man. He built like me. He's been doing this since he was in Pop Warner football. Like he's a receiver, corner, whatever you want to say, playing the quarterback position at a high level. So he's used to running the football. football and taking these hits.

You know what I mean? Can anybody get hurt when they take a hit? Absolutely. But he is built for it. He's not like Russell Wilson. He's not like Kyler Murray. He's not like these quarterbacks can run. He is different, man. He is built to take these hits. I don't know if anybody going to be able to stop Lamar Jackson and the Ravens

with the running backs that he has back there, with the Freedmen's, with the Murrays. I don't know if they're going to be able to stop him because when he drops back in that pocket and says, I'm out of here. They can't get it. When he dropped back in that pocket and he see the right guys and reading the right stuff and them guys coming open, he's going to make the throw. You know what I mean?

And everybody want to talk about the Colts team and all that type of stuff. But this Colts team has a really good defense. This coach team has had to play. To the fourth quarter. Yeah, but a lot of that's due to Lamar Jackson, too. And this coach. They didn't have no cornerbacks. They didn't have no cornerbacks.

Come on, James. And them cornerbacks don't cover three in man-in-man-in-man, bro. They weren't in no man. They were saying pre-vent the whole game. But to be honest with you, Lamar Jackson made one throw to my man, Hollywood Brown, that the cornerback kind of, you know, was tripping and slipped and fell a little bit and got bent on the double move. But other than that, man, Lamar's throwing these deep overs.

He's throwing these in-routes. He's throwing these curl routes, like sitting in his own man-a-man, whatever. You want to call it. I mean, he's making throws. But this Colts team has played, the offense play well, but they've played a really tough schedule. You know what I mean?

They played the Rams. They played the Ravens. They played the Titans. Like, they've played a really tough schedule to open this thing up. So for them to come back, be down by that many and to come back and win that game in overtime,

that's impressive. And just watching the game, when you've seen them get it going, the Colts defense had no chance. No chance. And I mean, I know the corners is hurt, but the front seven ain't hurt, right? They couldn't stop a nose bleed. I mean, their boys was, Lamar and their boys was running the ball down their throat, man.

You know what I'm saying? Lamar was running the ball down. I heard you mention. And Lamar Carter-Reyrism. No, no. The boys had 24 yards outside of Lamar Rush. You can name Latavius Murray and Devonty Freeman. What I'm saying is if you look at the stat line and you say,

man, we had 157 yards rushes. You don't get in the day and say, man, Lamar running, the Ravens ran it down and they throw. They ask you too much from, man, six carries for 17 yards, four carries for six yards, and one carry for one yard is what your backfield gave. At some point he can't, like,

at some point you got to give him a rest. And I feel that running game ain't going to give him enough of arrest. But they are giving them a rest when they drop back to pass. You know what I'm saying? And Lamar, and Lamar is, and Lamar is getting up out of there running because he's letting the, he's letting the world know I don't need arrest. I'm built for this. Like, y'all think I need a rest.

This man said they give him an arrest when they drop, when it's the most stressful part of his day, which is dropping back to pass. And Lamar, we try to take some of these hits off you. Here we go. Hey, strong right. I promise you this. I promise you this. The charges will not be playing zone defense this week. I'll promise you this.

Hey, that ain't about that happening, bro. But can you play man versus him, though? Because every time you play man, all they got to do is, you know, a couple drag routes. So the Ravens don't have receivers that scare you, though. Like, the only person that scare you is kind of like Mark Andrews. They'll pick Darwin James on Mark. Andrews, then everybody else manned up pretty much,

had the safety over top. If you spy Lamar is totally different. No, no, spying Lamar is totally, no, spy Lamar is totally different than just having, you know, a D-Lyman spy Lamar. Because when linebackers spy the quarterback, they can spy him in blitz earlier in the down. D-Lyman, when they spying, they can't get to the sideline with him.

You know what I'm saying? You just got to convince him, like, you got to just get him to, you know, think he can spread out. And if you have Joey Bosa coming off the edge and then he's spying, now you know you're forcing him in certain areas. Hey, since Lamar came into the league, we've seen a lot of, we see them.

I'm a better man. I'm a better man. You want to bet this week? You want to bet this week, Jay? That's what I'm talking about. We will. And I don't know if we can bet money, snicker bars or whatever, because we're on Spotify.

But it's a lot of teams that have tried to spy Lamar. You cannot play Lamar one-on-one. Because if he makes that spy miss, it is over. Number two, the Ravens have done a very good job with a Y receiver court this year. It is speed out there. Sammy Watkins and Hollywood Brown could run. If Hollywood Brown don't drop them three bombs in Detroit,

he might be the lead and receiver in the national football league. Yeah, he was playing like Englewood Brown that day. Who, who, like, look who he played, Detroit. Come on. It don't matter. Hey, says the person who always comes on here and says, You play who out. He got you.

You got you, Ryan. You play who out there, man. Hollywood Brown is what to work on. Everybody he has played this year. Hey, Ryan, Ryan, how'd you do against Lamar? I actually, I actually. You didn't play against? No, I played against him.

But when we played him, he, like, he was, it was Joe Flacko and Lamar, like, would come in and do, like, read options or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But I think it still is how a positive record versus Lamar. Well, yeah, we all know division games, man.

It don't care who's coming out there. It don't matter what your record is. We got the formula in. And we ain't got the best, we ain't got the best corners. You know what I'm saying? So, y'all, y'all had the formula. This year, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, y'all have, hey. Come all right. Come on, right. What you mean? What you mean? We might be three and three. We got to be three and three. You by the standard is the standard, huh?

Three and three. We're about to be three. Hey, what's your team right now? Like two and three? Two? And the Packers is four and one. That's all I know. You're talking about a bagger?

And the band's got a rookie quarterback, so what's you doing over here? Hey, I'm not trying to pour salt on the wound right now. But, hey, hey, y'all whole franchise is in shambles right now. The rest. Hey, the ass and shambles. God bless you, right. Hey, man. The Packers organization, man, is in really good shape right now.

Oh, look at her. It's going to be green and gold from here on out, right? This man has a boy green and gold this whole time we've been on this show. This boy been wearing Raider gear. I don't know what you're talking about, man. But the Packers is in really good shape. Hey. Hey, Jason, man.

He's been wearing, hey, he been wearing Redis gear every week. Oh, yeah. Not a stitch. He still got black and silver on, but he's not raider no more. He's not raided no more. He just changed the A, hey, hey. It's the slow descent into Packers gear. You know what?

Sometimes the first step you see in the closet is what you grab. Is that what it is? You're going to go into the Packers closet next week. Yeah, you know, just caught me on good days. That's a man with multiple closets. I got to put my green and gold on now. So speaking of, you know, in really good shape, tell me why the Buffalo Bills

ain't the best team in the NFL. Because they're not. Because the rounds aren't. Tell me why. I'll tell you why because of they schedule. They play one solid team. They play one solid team. And I don't even want to say

they still are solid. They just smack the chiefs. They smack the chief. But we all, I think, I think it's hard for everybody. I think it's hard for everybody to, to, to just really say the chiefs are sorry because of what they've done in the last two years. You know what I'm saying?

The chiefs stink on the defensive side of the ball. If the offense don't come in the game and score 40, they're looking at it like, man, we might not have a chance to win this game. What's that safety name? Tyrone Matthew. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sorensen.

Sorensen, let me tell you right now. I rarely feel bad for a professional player. Dog, that dude was out there swimming the entire game. Like, they were like, oh, we're 49 at. Like, the steel picture of Tyron Matthew were in the cobra position where Knox got behind. I tied in, got behind the deepest, the deepest dude on the field. Like, that man, I'd love to see that man pro football focus grade after that game

because it was all bad. I know Chris Jones didn't play, so obviously that makes a difference, but that defense is trash. They're giving up 30-year games. See, that's the thing. The bills have the number one offense scoring-wise. They have the number one defense scoring-wise.

I mean, I don't know. They got a seven-man defensive line rotation where everybody playing 20-plus snaps. Like, I don't know how. And now Zach Moss is kind of taking over for Devon Singletary. That running game is okay. And Josh Allen is, you know, all he got to do is stay at this level.

Like, they don't even need to ascend. They got to do a little bit more for me. They're not battle tested. They don't beat the Texans. They beat the Dolphins. They beat Washington football team. Like the Chiefs. Yeah, and the Chiefs.

They're not battle tested to me. And number two, when you run into a team that can throw it and run it. Like, they knew the Chiefs could not run the football. They knew they could stop the run. But where's their weakness, though, on defense? Their weakness on defense? Where is it? That 12-man rotation, that ain't going to work in the playoffs?

Yeah, but you finding, like, you're finding out that you keeping dudes fresh when you got AJ Epinness and Ed Oliver and all them dudes like this. This dudes they drafted last year that's only getting 15, 20 snaps. Like, I'm sorry, I just don't see a weakness right now on that squad. Making it. When you need to play, who's making it on their team? On the offensive defense. On defense?

Micah Hydebius White. I mean, any one of those defensive linemen. Like, they got, they got, they got, they got near pro bowlers. In the first seven, in the first seven, who making a play? They got guys up there, Ed Oliver and them boys up there. They got boys up there. What you need it, though. I haven't seen them make a play when they need it.

Jerry Hughes, they got Starloat to Layla. They got Ed Oliver. If you watch. If you watch the Buffalo, right, if you watch the Buffalo Bills play a team that's able to run the ball and throw the ball, that's when they struggle. Because if you look at the game plan

against the Chiefs, they did exactly what Tampa Bay Bucking News did the Super Bowl. We fin a drop seven and we fin a rush foe. They didn't blitz the entire game. They didn't blitz the entire game and they rushed four and you've seen Patrick Mahomes back there

running for his life. You know what I'm saying? So if you run up to a good, If you run up against a good team like the Chargers, you know what I mean? That could run the air out of the football with Austin Echler and them boys, and they got a very good offensive line and they can protect Herbert,

then we might have some problems. You know what I'm saying? So another problem for them is the O-Line. Like, their O'Line, like you said, ain't battle-tested. There still is, I think we bliss two or three times the whole game versus them. And Cam Hayward had eight pressures.

Like, he led the league in pressures. Well, he's a special player, too, right? No. But I'm saying, like, Cam's definitely a special player, but, like, think about it, if you play a team that has a solid D-line and then you just play defense, like, and drop seven, they're going to have a rough time playing against a team like that.

Like, other teams, if you have a good D-line, like, other teams, but everybody know the Chiefs don't give up 30 points a game. Like, it just... But the fact that you can hang with them all offensively, like, they can be... I feel like in multiple, like, the way James Jones just said about the Chargers. I think the bills could beat you in as many ways, if not more. Like, what are you going to do? What are you going to take away? Zach Morris is a, is a, is a, turning into a really,

really good running back, you know, and Stefan Diggs was first team all pro last year. This Knox dude come out of nowhere at the tight end position. Had a hundred some odd yards and three catches, right? Like, they, you know, feel how you feel about Kobe's. Like, they got some, they got some players, man. And Josh Allen, like I said, Josh Allen was kind of the dude who was, all right, can you, are you going to replicate last year's performance? You're not only doing it. I mean, he's, you know, he's staying at that level. I just, I don't know.

In the words of my man, Ryan, you play who out there. But they've played the Steelers defense who's a really good defense is why they got a chance to be three and three. And they did absolutely nothing. Then you go and you play a terrible Texans defense, terrible Texas Texans team. Then you go and you play a terrible Dolphins team.

Then you go. You stomped a mud hole in all of them. Then you go. If they had lost to those teams, we'd be upset. Then you go and you play a terrible Washington football team. That defense, though, how long people been talking about that defense?

This is trash as shit, though. And that's what I'm saying. They've been talking about this defense for the first four weeks of this season and everybody been on. So I don't know how good this Washington football team defense is because everybody didn't have their way with it.

James Winston just had his way with him this last week. You know what I'm saying? Chase ain't got no sex or anything. Yeah. And then you go and you play a terrible Kansas City Chiefs defense. So I don't know what to make up them right now. On paper and when you watch a play, yeah, they dominated the Texas. They dominated the Dolphys.

They are. They play one good defense, yeah. So who the best team then? Like I said, tell me why the Buffalo Bills aren't the best team. Who are the best team in the NFL right now? I got to take the charges. I just... In the league?

Or the AFC? He said the AFC, right? No, in the league. Oh, in the league. Ooh. I'm taking the Rams. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Yeah. In the league, man, I still got to go. I still got to go with the Rams. I do. And yeah, the Rams lost to... Got blasted by the Cardinals. And the Cardinals is five and no. The Cardinals better than the ramps?

No. No, I got to see that one. You saw it. I mean, no, you did. But no. I got to see it in the playoffs. I don't got to see it in the playoffs. I just,

they spanked them. It's a week-to-week league, man, and they got after them that, but just, I beat them by 17. You don't think they spanked them, Brian? I still feel like the, I still feel like the Rams is just the most complete team.

I, you know. And they starting to find a little run game with Sony Michelle. Listen, I, I am, I am, I am,

after seeing it for almost a decade, a decade here in Chicago in the NFC North. Matthew Stafford is going to be the difference between them winning all the games they're supposed to win in the playoffs and not. And Jared Goff, obviously, he's an improvement from Jared Goff. I just, like you guys say, you're waiting to see it or your battle tested? What battle test has Matt Stafford passed?

Well, number one, he's beating a bunch of good teams this year. I mean, he beat the- Talk about when the money's on the line. He beat the butt. I mean, well, that's what we're going to find out. this year. He's been playing with Detroit. It's part of it, though, ain't he? That's like playing with the Bears.

You have part of it? Yeah, but it's like, it's like, I mean, he was doing his part. Okay. And I'm a Matt Stafford fan, but this Rams thing, I'm looking forward to it. They defense solid, too. You know, like, and that's what I think they're a good team. I think they're a good team. I just don't.

And if it ain't them as the best team, I got to go with the other L.A. team, man. And that's the Chargers. All right. So, what are the Buccaneers and the Cowboys fall in this conversation? Because I think now that Cowboys team's scary. That's the thing, James. I think what's happened

is the Cowboys and all the Cowboys hype for the last decade has kind of clouded how you're supposed to feel about the Cowboys, whether they're worse than you think or whether they're better than you think. I think this team is like, I think they're right there with the Buccaneers,

right there with the Rams. I mean, in the NFC, you show me an offense that's humming like them. And on top of it, They got a defensive player of the year candidate because Trayvon Diggs can't stop intercepting passes, right? Michael Parsons is a dog. Like, they got some stuff on the defensive side of the football where Dak doesn't have to do it all by himself. And on top of it, Zeke and Tony Pollard, I mean, C.D. Lamb coming into his own. I think the Cowboys better than the Rams.

I think the Cowboys better than the Buccaneers. Like, I think the Cowboys might be the best team in the NFC. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if the Cowboys get to the Super Bowl this year. No, you're not lying. You're not lying. The Cowboys got a goal right now. And not only that, if they can stay healthy and then even get healthy, when my man come back, Lawrence, you know what I'm saying? Now you're going to add to the defense in the pastures if they can stay healthy.

But this Cowboys team is probably because of the things you just said. You have Dak Prescott back there playing at an MVP level. You have everything you want out there at Y receiver and C.D. Lamb and Gallup. And then you got the young fellow Wilson coming along. And not only that, you're going to get healthy when Gallup come back. You know what I'm saying? So this Cowboys team, like if they can stay healthy, they are going to be problems. They have a two-headed monster at back.

Zeke averaging 5.5 yards of carry the most in his career. So they could run it down your throat or they can, and they could pass this thing down your throat. The Cowboys, they look complete too. You know what I'm saying? And yes, I think in the back of everybody's minds it's like, all right, when the Cowboys is going to be the Cowboys, Everybody high on them and all that. But I don't see this happening with this team. You know what I mean?

I see a very, I see a team that's very close. I see a team that go out there every day and they fight with each other. They love each other. They having fun with each other. And to be honest with you, I see a team that don't think they could dang lose, no matter how the game looks.

You know what I'm saying? So this cowboy team is absolutely scared. Right, how does the NFC stacking up for you if the Rams at the top? Yeah, I got the Rams at the top. I probably have, I probably have the Cowboys three or four. And the reason I, the reason I say that is because I probably have, I probably have Arizona two, Rams, Rams, one, Cowboys three. And then green, I got to give Green Bay some, like.

Where the bucks, where the bucks fall in there, right? Four. They're four. They're behind, they're behind the Cowboys. And the Cowboys, I feel, I feel, I feel the Cowboys can make the Super Bowl. I really feel like they can make the Super Bowl, but I just have a feeling they're going to lose probably in the NFC championship. I feel like that's what they're going to lose that.

The reason I feel like they're going to lose there is because I think, you know, just all of all the build-up and everything, I think they're just going to start slowing down once that moment hit. And that's why I think the Rams are going to step up in that moment. I think Sharmie is a better coach than McCarton. Yeah, for sure. And that's why I think that the Rams are going to end up winning that game. And the reason I don't have the Carolina, I mean, not Carolina.

The reason I don't have the Cardinals that high is because I think all the coaches were out-coach Cliff Kingsbury. So, yeah. Speaking of coaching, you know, you said that my man, Sean McVeyer out, coach Mike. You know, Mike been there before. You know, Mike been in an NFC. Mike been in an NFC champion. Hold on, hold on.

Mike been in way more NFC championship games than Sean. Thank Aaron Rodgers. Mike been to the big game. I ain't going to say... Are you hearing his voice, right? I ain't going to say who he beat. I ain't going to say who he beat. Why he's screaming at me right now?

You know what I'm saying? But, you know, Mike, Mike been in that big game, so Mike knows what it takes to win those big games. Sean's been there. Having lost it to? Haven't he lost it to? Mike ain't ever lost it, brother, you know. At least not with me, you know.

Oh, that it is. You know, so, I mean, Mike knows. what it takes to win these games and win these situations. You know, like I said, Mike Benin, he been in plenty of NFC championship games in Green Bay. Hey, shout out to coaches in this little segment here, because, hey, man, the charges coach. The fact that this dude is not only using, using...

Yeah, dog, but you know what it is? Like, everybody likes to, you know, poo, poo. Well, the old guard likes to poo analytics and probability and all that. And I think you're getting that new wave of coaches in, right now who are kind of born in that and also have a feel for their team, like going for it on fourth down as much as they do, they're seven for seven. And the only time they haven't got it, I believe, is a fake punt when the punter realized that the alignment was wrong and he just went on his own. Like, you know, Brandon Staley, right? Is his name?

Yo, this dude is out. And on top of it, like when you get those mic'd up joints at the end where they got the winner's circle and they're showing you what's going into the locker room. It ain't just some nerd kicking out numbers. Them dudes believe in that cat. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they might have the MVP and the coach of the year on the same team, man.

And sometimes that goes hand in hand in terms of success. But, you know, I got the bills at the top of the NFC, but the charges, like you mentioned, the charges ain't too far behind, man. And two young quarterbacks, too, and two coaches who about that business. Like, Sean McDermott kind of popped up out of nowhere. And it's like, yo, by the way, I'm pretty much one of the better coaches that nobody talks about for the last couple of years.

I like what Brandon Stanley and the Los Angeles Chargers are doing. So it's some young guns in the AFC, man. It's some good young blood in the AFC, especially at that quarterback position. So, yeah, the charges ain't nothing to be messed with. I think everybody over here sleeping on the bills, but, you know. They got the second easiest schedule for the remainder of the season. And if they lose, for the first five games, they would have lost any of those people. We had been like, oh, they ain't ready for prime time.

They stomped the mud hole in everybody they went up against except for the Steelers, right? And that was one good defense. They also had to stop people. They also had to stop people right to, right? You just don't want to go into the playoffs knowing that every team in the playoffs is about to be that team. You know, every team in the playoffs is going to be good, playing good football. You don't want to go into the playoffs knowing that you've played an easy schedule, the easiest schedule. and think that you're going to run through the playoffs.

But if you do have the easiest schedule, like you saying, Jay, they should all look like they're supposed to look, 40 to zero, 35 to 7. They should all look like that because if that's the type of team we are, you know what I'm saying? And to trying to get to where we're trying to go, they should look like that if we're supposed to beat these teams the way we're supposed to beat. They got the Ravens coming up next. They got the Patriots after that at home.

then they go on a road to the Eagles. So they got one tough game over the next three or four. That Vikings team was still trying to figure out what they are, right? They got them coming up as well as the Steelers the week after that on November 21st. So they got a mixed bag, you know, down the stretch here in these next four or five games. The charges, the charges. Oh, the charges. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They got a mixed bag in terms of the schedule. If you're a Cleveland Browns fan, like you keep waiting for those few games to make you feel comfortable in your success, right, or your talent. And then, like, every third game, it's like, oh, there go. They go that Cleveland curse. But not only that, man. I mean, if you're a Cleveland fan and you've been watching your defense, dog.

If, I mean, I would have put my house up on it if somebody says, I guarantee you Cleveland's score 40, but they're going to lose. I said, boy, you're crazy. I'm like, man, there ain't nobody fit to put up 40 points on the Brown's defense. Like, they pass rush. they're coming, like they got everything they want on the defensive side of the ball too. But Justin Herbert, man, and that charge was

offense, we had they way with them boys. Special, special. I know Ryan can't really say anything positive about the Cleveland Brown, so we'll move on. No, no, I'm going to talk positive about them, man. Hey, I go, I definitely pray on their downfall, you know what I'm saying?

Like, but... He said pray on me! Hey, no, no, no. No, but I want everybody to be good because when we play each other, there's solid matchups, you know, I don't want us to go out there just blowing out of everybody.

Like, it's the NFL. Well, you don't have to worry about that this year. Hey, you're right, but we're getting dubs, you know? We're getting dubs right now. Still sitting in the basement of that division. Yeah, boys got two wins. So, hey, we got dubs. Hey, you got to start off somewhere.

You got to start out somewhere. Hey, the Jags is on your all heels. Oh, damn. Did he say that the Steelers are on the clock? Is that what you're saying? Hey, this man fell to realize that they might have the third picking the draft right now. The way the thing's looking for the Raiders, y'all, hey, y'all better chill out. Y'all better chill out.

That's all I'm saying. The Packers is 4-1, bro. Hey, this man, hey. And about to be four and two. Some people don't have the luxury of having two teams, man. Here he go. Here he go, thinking the Bears going to get my Packers. And about to be free back, boy.

Simple football rules. the day. Run the football, play defense. That's exactly what we're supposed to be doing out here. Shout out to my man Willie Beam, aka Bill Laser. All right? He out here, calling plays. Sean Desai out here. Calil Mc went crazy. Calliol Mack showed up on the field like I thought you forgot. It's so crazy, like how y'all just be knocking us. We got the hardest schedule in the league. Oh, here we go. You know, I didn't think this was going to be the college football show with y'all too, but I have never heard two dudes talk more about strength of schedules in my life.

It's 53 men getting paid on 32 different NFL franchises, and y'all can't wait to bring up, we played Eastern Michigan, we played this team. Listen to this. The bills I played. Here we go. The Houston, Texas, the Miami Dolphus, then they beat the Chiefs. They get a check. You know, they get a check.

Right. So do the Jaguars. You know what I'm saying? We're playing, we play, you know, the Reels, the Raiders who were good at the moment. You know what I'm saying? We played the, we played the Bengals. The Bengals are, the Packers. Like, come on, man.

These teams are totally different. So you have played every team that has a winning, you've played, every team you've played has a winning record. You know why? Every team we're going to play pretty much. You know why? Because they played the Steelers, too. You know what I'm saying?

That's not true. That's very true. That is not true at all. That's not true at all. They helped those records. That's not true at all. That's not true at all. All right.

That's all the time they're going to give us, man. It's always good talking to y'all fellas. We started off serious. We had some fun at the end the way it's supposed to be. This has been the Tuesday edition of the Ringer NFL show. My man, Ryan Shazier. my guy James Jones and I am Jason Gough. As we close this thing out here, anything that was in either one of y'all notebooks

that y'all saw this week that y'all wanted to get off your chest before we say goodbye to the people. You know, just to recap on them, man. I'm glad the NFL did what they had to do with Coach Gruden, man, and making sure that, you know, they handled that the right way, man, and getting him out of there, you know, in a league that's what, 80%, you know, 80% African-American or something like that, you know what I'm saying? So I'm just glad they did the right thing, man.

It got that stuff situated. Looking forward to this Sunday, man. A bunch of good game. Oh, you know, I'll be texting you. I'll be texting you. Yes, sir. I'll be texting you. It's the way down.

For me, man, I don't know this guy at all, but I want to show him some love, Alexander Madison, man. He's been bawling for the, he's been bawling for the Vikings, man, and nobody really been giving him no love. You know, so I just want to show him some love. He really been bawling out here. And he was one of the main reason

that helped the Vikings win that game. So I just wanted to show some love to him. Yeah, and in closing, I just want to show some love to Justin Fields because the man is running into people like he's still at Ohio State. Justin, get down, player. Get down, man. We don't need no foolishness. You are bringing the city together one win at a time.

We don't need to see the red rifle in there at any point in time during any games in the future. So keep getting down, my brother. Keep getting down. Next up on the ringer. NFL show is Kevin Clark talking about all the big NFL topics. We'll be back every Tuesday on the Ringer NFL show for the entire NFL season. You can also check out the full goal with Jason Gough. That's me, by the way, every Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday night on Spotify,

wherever you get your podcast. Thank you to our production assistant Isaiah Blakely for production on this episode with additional production, supervision from our Juno Ramgapal. For Ryan Shazir, James Jones. I'm Jason Gawf, saying, as always, take care of each other and be safe out there.