The Ringer NFL Show - Brock Purdy’s Contract Extension, Plus NFC West Offseason Grades

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Sheil, Steven, and Diante start the pod by sharing their reactions to the 49ers extending quarterback Brock Purdy’s contract and talking about what this means for the team going forward. They then shift their focus to the rest of the NFC West division and use their expertise to analyze each team's offseason moves to determine what their level of success could be in the upcoming NFL season. San Francisco 49ersLos Angeles RamsArizona CardinalsSeattle Seahawks The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante LeeProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera GivensProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go! Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here with Stephen Ruiz and Deonté Lee. We are continuing our off-season series looking at every division, what teams did, whether they got better, whether they got worse, some way too early predictions. We did the AFC East and the AFC North. Already we had planned to do the AFC South, but we got a little news. since our last episode,

Brock Purdy signed to a big-time contract extension with the San Francisco 49ers. So you know what? The AFC South doesn't have a lot of juice. Be honest, you just didn't want to talk about the AFC South. That's probably true. It's the only division without a team

without a positive point differential. Do we really even need an episode? Yeah, I always say, you know, we're pivoting to the NFC West today, Deonté, but then I was also thinking, how many times can I make this switch so that the AFC South gets done while I'm on vacation?

if I'm just going to be brutally honest with the audience. You know, that thought had crossed my mind. You know, laying the grenade in our lap as you sail off for a little while. That would be a vet move. I'll definitely give you credit. That would be a vet move in that respect. Listen, reps matter. You know, this is why being old is not fun, but, you know, these are some of the benefits from it.

You learn some of the tricks of the trades. All right, we're going to go through the Niners, the Rams, the Seahawks, and the Arizona Cardinals, like I said, we'll grade their off seasons. We will talk about whether they got better or worse from last year, and we will give one way too early prediction. Let's start with the news. The San Francisco 49ers, the team in the news. They have the second best division odds,

which I think might surprise some people. They're right below the Los Angeles Rams. They are sixth in conference odds at plus 1,100, and they are 11th in Super Bowl odds at plus 2,500. They're over, under for wins is 10 and a half, one of the highest totals of any team in the NFL. Has to be the highest total, I think, of any team that didn't even make the playoffs last year. And we can get into the reasons why that's the case.

But first, we need to grade their offseason. And I think we can get into all the other moves. But let, let's be honest, the world has been waiting to hear Stephen Ruiz, Deontay, on this Brock Purdy extension. You know, I was tiptoeing around it. in the intro, but that really is the reason for the change here. Brock Purdy gets a contract extension reported as five years, $265 million, which would be $53 million per year, which would put him around the seventh highest paid quarterback.

However, Mike Floreo of Pro Football Talk was reporting that it's actually lower than that, that they ripped up the final year of his rookie deal. That's included in this contract. And so it actually comes out to around $45 million per year. which would put him around 13th. So, you know, I don't know that the exact ranking matters that much. I think we know the ballpark of contract where this is. And once we get the actual contract, we'll know the exact details, but puts him somewhere between the seventh highest paid quarterback to the 13th highest paid quarterback in the NFL. He's got a no trade clause. So the 49ers are

making a commitment to him and he will be their quarterback for the foreseeable future. Stephen Ruiz, your thoughts on this deal, higher, lower than expected? Did you think this could get contentious? And this was going to go into August and maybe September. And of course, the million dollar question. If you were in the 49ers front office, would you have been comfortable paying Brock Purdy this kind of money? I mean, I think the total, if you're just looking at the total of the deal, you have to be happy if you're a 49ers member or your 49ers fan because it is a below market. deal. We rarely, if ever, see

quarterbacks starting quarterbacks go below market value. It's usually the next guy up is the guy that's going to get paid the most. So I think that's a win. If the contract falls within that range, 7 to 13, in a couple of years, it will fall down even further to about like 16, 18. And I think, like, that's a fair

range. If Brockworthy doesn't develop from where he was last year for the next five years, that's a fair market deal just looking at the quarterback market. I think the trepidation comes up with whenever you're paying a quarterback, you're paying a bunch of money. And I know it looks like a bargain relative

to the rest of the league, but you still got to pay, let's say Brock Party regresses a little bit and becomes the 20th best quarterback in the NFL over the next three years. Sure, you're paying him a below market price, but you're still paying the 20th ranked quarterback like, what, $45 million a year? That makes it hard

to build a winning team. So I think it's definitely a win for the 49ers, but it comes down to what property, how he develops. And I think if he develops into the quarterback that people kind of made him out to be in 2023, where he was this processing God who always put the ball in the right place last year, the timing went away, the accuracy kind of went away. Shocker how that happened. But if he does fill in those gaps, that I think he is the type of quarterback who could

earn that money down to line. I think this is a contract that could age well. But at the end of the day, it comes down to Kyle Shanahan. It comes down to Kyle Shanahan figuring out the run game. which went away last year with Christian McCaffrey being hurt. And then it comes with, it also is determined by his ability to get this defense back to where it was. I think hiring Robert Sala was the right move for them to kind of going back to that old formula. But that style of defense requires a lot of talent.

And they don't have the resources they had when they initially built that defense in terms of draft capital, in terms of cap space. Obviously, now that they're paying Purdy and they're paying these other guys on the team, these other star players they've acquired over the last couple of years, So I think from a team building perspective, it's going to get tougher, obviously, but it comes down to the same thing it came down to for the last two years. Can Brock, you know, fill the gaps in his game? And can Kyle Shanahan coach this team to a championship level?

Last year, the answer was no in both cases. Next year, I think there is a very good chance that the answer is yes in both cases. Yeah, you really can make the case that I don't want to say, it's weird to say team friendly. I don't want to say team friendly because you're right. When you're paying in the mid-40s at a minimum, it's not really team friendly. But I will say it came in if those numbers are to be believed a little lower than I was anticipating,

because not only are the raw numbers lower, but you have to look at percentage of the cap. And the cap has gone up since guys like Tua and Jared Goff and some of these other guys have signed their contracts. So it's actually even lower when you look at the amount of the percentage of the cap that this contract's taking up versus some of those other quarterbacks. And I just thought that the 49ers were going to have to pay. more than that. So I think if you're a Niners fan, even if Brock Purdy isn't like your favorite quarterback, if you're not like this guy is 100% going to lead us to a Super Bowl, I think you have

to be happy about it. I mean, this is a deal I absolutely would have done if I was the San Francisco 49ers. And I know what Ruiz is saying, the offense didn't look as good. Purdy didn't look as good last year. Deonti, I think there's kind of a case that maybe last year convinced the 49ers to do that, Because if that was the floor, if you think that maybe was the floor, you know, Christian McCaffrey plays four games last year. Brandon Ayuk plays seven games. The defense isn't very good. These statistics around the offense and the passing offense really weren't that bad.

I mean, it was still kind of top 10. You can, any way you filter it, they almost still had a top 10 passing offense, even with those circumstances. So if you look at that and you're Kyle Shanan or John Lynch or the 49ers organization and you say, man, you know, last year was kind of the year from hell. and we didn't like totally crumble offensively. We were still above average with the passing game. Then that makes us feel good about building this thing back up

to a Super Bowl contender. I think that it's fair to have that kind of takeaway. I think that it's really interesting, you know, reading what Stephen had on this, his analysis on the contract was more from the Kyle Shanahan perspective. I think mine was more from Brock Purdy's perspective. And I think that ultimately it does find a ball in between the two of them, right? And I think that for me, the thing that I,

the question I'm going to have is season from hell set to the side from what we've seen of them in the playoffs from what we've seen of them against top competition when teams blitz you, when teams play more man coverage, when the stakes are highest, when there's a least margin for error,

what kind of passer are you? And I think that you're right, Sheel. Like if you look at last season, a lot of that I think is just like a very accurate representation of Purdy as a player. Like early in the season was really hot, taking chances, holding on to the ball longer, trying to push a ball downfield.

And that was a new development in Kyle Shanahan's offense, right? And we spent a lot of time early in the season talking about like, hey, for a team that does not have it starting running back, that was the engine last year for a team that's trying to, you know, remake its offensive line on the fly. The fact that they're still explosive through all of this is really impressive. We got a Joanne Jennings breakout year, essentially because of the way the Brock Prady was playing.

But what we saw as the rest of the season went along, the weather got colder, team started adjusting, taking away those deep passes. The offensive line spent more time in those pure dropbacks situations to what we're used to seeing from a 49ers and Kyle's Chanahan offense. And you saw a guy that couldn't really finish late in the season. A lot of games lost because you couldn't convert on conversion downs and high leverage situations.

Turnovers went up. Sack started going up in those types of situations. And I think that that's just a representation of who party is. I do think that because of the situation he's in, the floor is high, the thing that makes him a conundrum is that he's not necessarily a ceiling razor, right? And I think that ultimately he can just operate at. at whatever the level is of the supporting cast around him. And that's fine.

That is worth $40 to $45 million per year. If you're able to do that consistently, my questions just have not changed with him as a player. What really matters is, is the Robert Salehye are going to matter enough to be able to get this defense where it needs to be where they can compete in the playoffs? Are they going to have a healthy enough offensive line

and running back room to be able to run the ball and keep the ball out of parties hands on, they need to do so? And then ultimately, when you get into those Super Bowl 50s, situations and you know teams are going to blitz, you know teams are going to play tight coverage, you know they're going to take away a Brandon I, you know they're going to have their best guy on a Christian McCaffrey or George Kittle. What do you do as a quarterback in that situation? I need to see that. That's the data point that matters most for how I internalize my feelings about

Brock Purdy. But as far as the contract itself and his place within not only the NFL quarterbacking kind of hierarchy right now, but just how we look at the 49ers as contenders, all of that I'm giving a thumbs up to. It just does not necessarily change the way that to look at where this team is situated right now. I think, like, you kind of hinted at what makes it so hard to kind of analyze Purdy as a quarterback. Like, beyond the story, which I think that's first and foremost, the thing that makes it hard is people see him as the ultimate underdog.

And I think a lot of people see themselves in him. They're like, this is a guy that, like, looks like me. And he wasn't trapped. He wasn't highly touted. And he's making $250 million. Like, this is a good story. And then you fill in the narrative gaps from there. I think we saw that in 2023.

Like what I said earlier, where everyone was raving about his processing and accuracy, which was the same thing people were saying about Jimmy T in like 2019, by the way. But that goes away. And then you saw this new version of Purdy come out in the first half of last year where he is scrambling and it's working, where he is like making plays out of structure and it's working. But that didn't really jive with the narrative from the year before. And now you have like two separate players. You have 2023 Purdy who was the point guard distributor. Then you have 2024 Purdy who was this guy that was going to hold onto the ball, who held onto the ball longer than anyone.

in the NFL, say for a couple of people. Which version of purdy do we get in 2025? If you get like a hybrid where you're getting the best of both worlds, I think like this contract isn't just going to age well. It's going to be one of the best bargains in the sport going out. But if it doesn't, which I think is just as possible, and maybe he reverts to what we saw last year, especially down the second half.

That's why I think it's kind of problematic to just step back, look at all of the results. Like at the beginning, it was working. In the second half, it stopped working. And he started turning the ball. all over and those scrambles turn into sacks and those out of structure throws turn into interceptions and they lost games because of it, partly because of it. I think the defense was the bigger problem.

So it's kind of hard. It's almost like a wait and see how this contract is going to age. But like if you're just stepping back and looking at it in the moment when it happened, it's a below market deal for the 49ers. It's a quarterback. It's a quarterback in his mid-20s, a quarterback in theory who's ascending. There's no other way to grade this other than saying like it's a thumbs up for the 49ers. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I like bigger samples better than smaller samples, so I like the whole season.

But I hear what you're saying. You could, you know, paint a narrative that it was trending down in the second half of last season. And if that continues it, there's no doubt about it that the second half didn't look as good as the first half. I think his first half was actually underrated when I was watching him. I'm like, man, he looks like a better player than he's been. He's able to do more amid chaos than maybe I thought he was able to do in the past there. So I think I probably like him better than you guys like him. I'm not saying he's on like the top tier and he's the reason why the 49ers offense is good. But I think if you're looking at it from a Niners perspective, which you have to do. It's not like, hey, an expansion draft, where would he go?

That's not the question that the Niners have to answer. They have to answer the question that within our infrastructure, with our coach, what does this look like? I mean, the offense has, you know, had seasons where they've had a very high ceiling, where they've been the best offense or among the best offenses in the NFL. So you have that in play. And like I said, I would be in the room being like last year, a lot of things went wrong. And the offense was still as a whole, not just the second half, not just the first half, but if we add it all together, the offense was still pretty good.

It wasn't the biggest problem. That was also the case with Jimmy G. This is a team that deals with injuries every year. And this has been their floor. Like, I wrote this in the article. Like, this wasn't the outlier year. If you look at their offense, if they're often, performance. 2024 was not the outlier year.

2023 was the outlier year. This was in line with everything they've done since Kyle Shannon got the offense rolling in 2019, whether it was Jimmy G. back there. When they had to play Nick Bolins and I'm forgetting the other CJ Bethard and Debo Samuel got hurt and Brandon Ayuk wasn't playing and George Kittle

wasn't playing. He was throwing at Ross. Those two were throwing at Ross Dwelley and Richie James. They finished 17th in dropback EPA. They finished just a league average offense with those pieces that I just said. Like with Kyle Shady and the floor for this passing game is always going to be top 15 to top 10. Although I think the difference, at least I thought, and you might have the numbers that dispute this, but the numbers like from last year, they weren't using play action at a high rate.

The yards after catch were not high. You know, he was pushing the ball downfield. If you look at obvious passing situation, stuff like, hey, you know, how did he look on third and fourth down? He ranked top eight, top ten. If you look at him without play action, he ranked. He ranked top eight, top ten. If you look at him without play action, he ranked top eight, top 10. If you looked at him under pressure, he ranked top eight, top 10. So that to me is a different. Now, maybe it's wrong. Again, you might say, you know, Jimmy G had those same numbers.

I remember that feeling and looking more limiting with Jimmy G. Where when I watched Jimmy G in the offense, it was very clear to me why the offense was succeeding and it was not the quarterback. And at least I felt like last year, there were glimpses of, no, he is doing more under more trying circumstances. I mean, he was making a high percentage of tight window throws last year. I think he was one among the top five, top eight, something like that in the NFL. So I feel like the circumstances were harder last year than maybe they ever were for Jimmy J.

I think that's fair. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. I guess for me, the thing I wanted to pose to you guys is I'm going to give you a list of a list of youngish quarterback names who have not been like all pros or MVP types of candidates. And I want you to rank where Brock Pretty is on his continuing. Oh, boy. All right. Here we go.

Jordan Love, Tuatung of Iloa, Jared Gough, who is, I said young-ish, so I know over the 30-year-old, Mark, Jared Gough, Jalen Hertz,

Kyler Murray. Where does Rock Purdy rank amongst these guys? All right. What is, I need more context to the, right? I mean,

how are you contextualize, however you contextualize quarterbacks, right? Because I have a follow-up question of this, but if you were just creating your quarterback hierarchy,

and I said that this is a tier of quarterback that I have come that I've put together, how do you rank these guys from first to last? For 2025 alone? Going into 2020 5. I would put two at last on the list

and I think I would put Brock right ahead of him. Like I think he's better than two. The one that's hard for me is Jared Goff because all the arguments I could make against Brock Purdy in in 2023, I could make against Jared Goff in 2024. Like if you drill down in Jared Goff's passing numbers, this guy had like the easiest job in the world last year.

Like he never had to move. He always got to throw to his first read. His first read was always wide open. and like they would get like 15 yards after the catch. He's the tough one, but like when you watch him play, like the guy has an arm and when he's unbothered in the pocket, nobody delivers a better ball than him. So it's kind of tough with those two.

But like I think the other people you named, and maybe I'm forgetting a name, but I think those guys are clear. Like Kyler, I would clearly take over Brock. Jordan Love, that's more of a ceiling thing and a talent thing, but I think he's the more talented player. but those, I do, I would put him ahead of two on. See, and I threw in Jordan Love and Kyler Murray in there intentionally because they're confounding

for me too, right? And we talked about that all last season. Kyle Murray, I've had a hard time with his entire career, A, because he's dealt with injury issues, he's been talented, he's obviously seen him faltered down the stretch. And with Jordan Love, like you said, I mean, that's all the talent that you could possibly ask for as a pocket passer. We haven't necessarily seen him be a creative passer yet. And some of that, I guess for me is I get hung up with, is that a stylistic issue for me? Or do I just not think that, or do I think that what he lacks as a quarterback is ultimately going to hold him down or hamper his ceiling within that offense? But I think if you put those two just as pure talents off to the side and you look at that group of Jared Goff, Jalen Hertz, Tula, and Brock Purdy,

I have him above, I have him above Tua for sure. And he's right there with Hertz to me. Yeah. He's right there with Hertz and golf to me. And to me, I look at everybody in that group, maybe outside of Tua, as guys that I think you can build a legitimate at Super Bowl contender with. And then when you factor in earnings going into 2025 and beyond, then I feel very, very comfortable with Brock Prady as a quarterback at that point.

And I guess that's why for me, I have not really had any second thoughts about whether or not this is worth it for San Francisco or whether or not this will work out. I think that to your point in what you were writing, Stephen, Kyle Shanahan's legacy is now on this five-year deal. That's really what I think is most important. Without getting to anything about how we feel about Brock Purdy, ultimately whether or not we view Kyle Shanahan as the play calling coach and his winning

legacy matching what he is as a play calling coach is going to ride on whether or not Brock Purdy can be something between what he was in 2023 and 2024 as a quarterback. See, the reason I ask for context and I'm still thinking about this is because if I were the Niners, and I know your guy's answers will be different than mine for this, but if you said you can trade Purdy straight up for those guys for this 49ers team, I actually don't know. There's not a guy on that list that I feel like is a slam dunk that I'm just saying, yeah, let's do this right away. Jordan Love is my only for certain.

What's that? I would not say, Kyler. I would not say, Kyle. I would say, Jordan Love is the only guy on that list. I would say for certain that I would trade. I would trade. I would have some. I would, and I love Jordan Love, but with a smaller body of work, some of the inconsistencies, some of the, I don't, I don't know that I would be comfortable making that trade.

What does Brock do better than love? And how would that function in the offense? Well, that's true. Yeah. The question, the conversation with Purdy, always when you get to the tools, he's going to lose out on that probably. That's not a tools question, though. I'm saying, like, what does he do better than him? What does he do better?

That's a skill set question. Yeah, I mean, he has completed passes and operated more efficient offenses than Jordan Love. He doesn't throw the football better than him. No, he doesn't. Even if you combine accuracy in Armtown, which I think. think we should do. I think we separate those two things way too often. Because first of all, accuracy, anything over 10, 20 yards, that's not accuracy. That's timing. That's a wide receiver tracking the ball. Like, you just have to watch the, if you watch the plays, you're like,

this is not accuracy at all. It's my analogy is always, it's like shooting a basketball and like there's a person moving the hoop towards where the, that doesn't make you a good shooter because the ball goes. And it makes the guy that move the hoop to where the ball went, you know, he tracked the ball well. So, and I don't think he throws the ball better than him. He doesn't, deliver the ball more consistently down the field than Jordan Love does, in my opinion. But Jordan Love does have those wild misses, which make his accuracy look a little worse. When you can float the ball, when you can throw your change up all the time and throw it 80 miles per hour, you don't have to throw it 95 miles per hour. You're going to look more accurate.

That's just a fact of life. Yeah, that's true. We see it. It will be an interesting, what is it? Six years. Six years with Brock Ferdie. No trade clause. You know, we didn't even get to the other.

stuff. So let's take a break. We'll come back and now we'll zoom out a little bit. I think we're all on the same page with yes, would have done this deal if you're the 49ers for Brock Purdy. It's a win for the team. I'm probably higher, I think, on his prospects to deliver on this deal, maybe a little bit more than you two. So let's take a break. We come back. Let's talk about the other stuff that the Niners did and then move on to these other teams. All right. We are back on the Ringer NFL show. All right. So let's zoom out now and grade the Niners offseason as a whole. So you got the party extension, which we just talked about for 20 minutes. You got the George Kittle extension, four years over $76 million.

You have a Fred Warner extension, three years, $63 million. So those two guys, Warner and Kittle, are now the highest paid players at their respective positions. On the other hand, you had a little transition. You move on from Debo Samuel. You move on from a bunch of guys on the defensive side of the ball. And you bring in Robert Sala hoping that he can just. just get more with less with the group that you have. So, Deonti, what do you think?

Adding all those things together, how do you grade this 49ers off-season? I feel like I have hovered in the same range for so many teams. I'm giving them a B, and I will say, like, the B I'm giving them, this is maybe the only franchise that we've thought, at least the only franchise we've talked about thus far, where a half measure was satisfactory for me. I felt like this off-season for them is very much about half measures.

They couldn't really tear the whole thing down without a being. and very painful from a team-building perspective. And I don't think that would have been the right call coming out of all the injuries that they suffered last year. I think they were prepared for this day, and they had been hinting at it since last off-season that, hey, we know the Brock Pretty extension's coming. Nobody ever had any second thoughts about whether or not they'd get it done.

And that meant that some defensive veterans are going to have to walk out the door. I think the guys who left are probably the guys you kind of have to bet on their best days having been in San Francisco and not at wherever their next spot is going to be. Andrei Greenlawn, Talao, Hufunga, Javon Hargraves, and all those guys. And I think that that's a safe bet. I do think that each of those guys will be productive in 2025 at their new stop if they're healthy.

But I think it was the right move for San Francisco in that respect. And then with the extensions they gave for the big money guys that are still on the roster, all that is, is just trying to make your books as functional as possible while, you know, Brock Prady's cap hit is still relatively manageable over the next two to three year window. That's fine to me too.

So I think that they operated the way that you should as a team that you know is talented, that you know can be a playoff team, and they just need to, I think, kind of hold on, just hold on to the rope for another year or two and then really reassess what they want to do with this roster as Brock Prady's contract becomes more and more cost prohibitive. What did you think, Cruees?

I gave them a C, but I had a lot of the same reasoning. It was more, like, the moves they did make. I think they were the right moves. Like, we already said the Brock Purdy. That's the biggest deal, and I think that was a no-brainer for them given the cost. I think resigning Kittle made it. a lot of sense. Resigning Fred Warner

made a lot of sense and like DeAndte said, it kind of frees up to cap for the next couple of years. But they didn't really address the offensive line, which I think was a big issue in the run game and in pass protection at times. And that's really my big concern. And I think the secondary, you look at this defensive depth chart, it's just thin across the board.

And the one thing I would like kind of push back against what Deontes said about the bets, which I do think they made bets about those guys, their best days being behind them. But the guys that you're betting on, their best days not being behind them, the guys that stayed on the roster like Trent Williams and Christian McCaffrey. I think it's more likely those guys best days are behind them than Hufunga or even like Greenlaw is coming back obviously from, you know,

a couple of significant injuries. Even Kittal's 32 years old. Yeah, it's, you know. The Kittle one is probably the one that can really blow up on you. But what are you going to do? Like, you're not to see. I'm with you. And that's where I'm out with it as well, Steve. And that's exactly where I'm at with the two. What else were you going to do with all these deals? It's a long shot. But if like these bets hit, like you're right back to 2023 and we're talking about you as a Super Bowl contender. If they don't hit, then you're right back to 2024 and where you would have been if you did a hard reset this offseason anyway. Yeah, I'm with you guys. I went B minus, so I'm in the middle of the both of you. I think the extensions, I'm with you. I can be here and be like, you don't give

a 32-year-old tight end, that kind of money. If I'm in the 49ers front office in the year, he just had, and I'm trying to win a Super Bowl. And like Deonti said, you got to get some cap stuff in order. All right, let's go ahead and get in that money. He's the best player on the offense last year. Yeah, he was off the team, maybe. Maybe the team. Exactly. Yeah, he was awesome last year. Fred Warner, you know what you're getting there.

I like the purdy deal. So I like those. And I even like the first couple picks in the draft. So initially I was a little bit higher. And then I went to the hour lad's depth chart. And it goes to what Ruiz said. It's like, I understand moving on from a lot of these players. You're really asking, you're putting a lot in Robert Salah.

And I think he's been a very good defensive coach. But now he has to prove it with kind of a different group here that you have a lot of unknowns here. even defensive tackle, the secondary. Like there are guys who are going to have to play for them that you're going to have to get something out of right away. So I bumped it back a little bit because I felt like, all right, you didn't necessarily replace those guys. Not that they had a ton of resources, but you just lost a lot of guys who have been a part of this football team for the last one, two, three, four years who are not part of the team. And now you're just relying on younger

guys. And hey, we went through their drafts in our GM show before the, for the draft and they hit on some late guys, but the early picks were ugly. So I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt that these guys are going to come in and be able to play right away. I do think the most interesting transaction is when we have a name. It's not interesting from like, oh, this is going to change like the landscape of the NFC West or anything, but it's just like interested in where this offense is going to go next year and them giving Luke Farrell $20 million, a $20 million contract, like a tight end,

a backup tight end from Jacksonville. It's kind of interesting to me. But when you watch it when you see the tools, you're like, All right, maybe Kyle sees something in him. But when Kyle has seen stuff in guys that they've acquired, especially in the draft, especially with running backs, it hasn't always worked out. So I don't know if he's the best personnel guy. But I do think Luke Farrell, in combination with extending George Kittle, I wonder where the offense is. But they also brought back Kyle's use check.

So all those guys can't play at once. You know, you can have two. I guess you can, but you're only putting one wide receiver on the field if you have two tight ends and two running backs on the field. let's let's earmark Luke Farrell for the first team all hipster team in August. I feel like I'm going to be hearing a lot about Luke Farrell

in August I mean, well they didn't have a lot of resources and yeah, so when they pay a guy in offense, I'm with you, it does.

It should get our attention. So I'm glad you mentioned him. All right. Better or worse than last year. So they were six and 11 last year. I think I jumped on the band. I was still holding out hope in what early December?

No, they still got a shot. Don't count them out. and then they lost their last four games. It didn't happen. Ruiz, do you think they're better, worse, the same as last year? I think they have to be better.

They led the league and adjusted games loss. I never know what to say. They were last or were they were first? They had the most injuries in the NFL. I just say the most injured team. Yeah, they were the most injured team. That's not going to happen. It was by a comfortable margin, too.

That's not going to happen again. They have to be better than what they were last year. And I think the 6 and 11 record kind of belies what they actually were. I think they were a better team than that. I know down the stretch, they kind of punted down the stretch. I think they even, like, you know, they pulled Brock Purdy because I think he had a shoulder injury. So I don't think that record is representative of what they were. So even if they stay the same, I think the record will be better.

What do you think, Deonti? I think that if I'm judging this solely off of roster quality, I would probably say they're about the same. But when you factor in injury regression, right, expected injury regression from last year going into this year. I think that, like you said, they'd have to be better. I guess my hangup is something that Stephen pointed out when he was just talking about the grade for the offseason. I'm trying to sort out exactly what this personnel is going to look like on offense because they do have Luke Farrell.

You do have Kyle Eusecheck. And you've also got a lot of young receivers outside of Brandon Ayuk and to Marcus Robinson who have flashed but have not necessarily shown themselves to be consistent producers. Even Joanne Jennings, so I thought it was excellent over the first two months of the season, especially in contested catch situations. That was not the Joanne Jennings that was. We were watching the three, four years prior in his career. Ricky Pearsall had some flashes.

I need to see that for a second season. They're going to need something, I think, out of like a Jacob Cowling or DeMarcus Robinson is going to have to show up, especially in Brandon Ayuk's stead. If there's any hang up with his ACL recovery, I need to see what this dropback passing game is going to be like. It's basically what I'm getting at before. I feel really resolute in them being a better team.

I just do think that based on their depth chart on a week-to-week basis, it's not going to look as despondent. of a franchise as they did, especially down the last six or seven weeks of the season last year. I think that's a key point because last year, like when you drill down into Brock Purdy's production, like the past game production and kind of separate things, like you look at just play action on first down. You look at drop back passing on third down, like the screen. Like everything is in line efficiency-wise compared to 2023. It's just that they were not able to do that stuff as much because they were in second and

third and long more often. It wasn't like Kyle Shannon. Like, Sheila, you mentioned they were running less play action. It wasn't like Kyle Schenady. I don't like play action anymore. When it's third down, you can't run play action. When it's third down more often, they had the most first downs in 2023, and that went down by a huge margin in 2024.

So if they are able to get that first down offense rolling again, they get the run game rolling again. I think the wide receiver question becomes a little less significant. But if it is like a replica of last year, then your 11 personnel, your three wide receiver sets better be better than they were last year. Hey, is Nick Bosa going to get back to what he was in 2021 or 2020? That's another key question. I feel like that has to happen or this defense.

Like, that's my hope, my optimism for this defense is that Robert Sala comes back. He's going to get back to what you were doing and the defensive line is eating like it was in 2022, 2021. But the pieces aren't there. And I kind of like just assume it that it's going to happen in my head. But you're right, Deonti, when you look at the roster, who is there behind Nick Bosa to rush the pastor that's like solidified that we could bank on being a productive guy. Yeah, you would need a Rams like, hey, rookies come in and look really good, you know? Can Michael Williams is going to have to be like a double-digit sack guy?

Can he be Jared first? I mean, that's always built to be, you know, right? He's built to be more like, hey, young, talented guy might take a little time, but could be one of the best players in this draft eventually. But you never know. That's the thing with rookies. I could say that now. And then it could be November 1st and we could be like, man, Michael Williams is a revelation.

been healthy and working with that defensive line coach and he looks really good. That's their path defensively. I think Sala makes you better, but no coach can do it without players. And so I do think they need those rookies on the defensive line. They wanted to get back to their roots. Can Michael Williams, can Alfred Collins, can those guys be good right away or give you something right away? That's their path to being better on defense. Now, the luck factors, every luck factor I look at, point.

points me to the 49ers are going to be much better this year. You know, I think there was some confusion when the over-under win totals came out. Like, how could the Niners be at 10 and a half? You guys mentioned the injuries. Most injured team in the NFL last year. They were 26th in turnover EPA. They were two and six in one score games. And this is the biggest one.

They have by far the easiest schedule in the entire NFL. And I know that does, you know, the schedule you're prognosticating there. It might not end up that way. when you look at it and you just compare it to whatever Vegas projected win totals or Super Bowl odds, this is the easiest schedule in the NFL. So I feel like you're adding up a couple things. Hey, good offense, easy schedule, upgrade a defensive coordinator, and you have a chance to rebound. So I've got them.

I'm with you guys. On paper, I looked at the roster. I'm like, are they better than last year? I'm not sure. But I think you add in the other factors on the standings in ESPN.com, NFL standings. I do feel like their final place, barring some horrible injuries, will be much better than it was last year. All right. Way too early prediction, Ruiz.

What do you got? I'm going to say this is going to be their first non-top 10 offense since 2020. Oh, interesting. That was the year for help. That was the year for, I think they were like the second. Out of the last 20 years, they were the second most injured team of all time. They finished 17th in dropback EPA, but their run game wasn't there. That's what I'm concerned about is the run game.

I'm worried about Christian McCaffrey. We could say they're getting from him. Yeah, we could say they're getting regression from the injuries. But then we talk about Trent Williams and we talk about Christian McCaffrey. You talk about George Kittle and like, are we sure that they're going to get regression? This is a team that I think is built, not built to have a lot of injuries, but like when you look at it on paper, you're like, yeah, that's probably a team that's going to get hurt. So that's my concern with this. Is them, the offensive line not being addressed, I think it's going to be an issue in the run game.

If Christian McCaffrey isn't back to what he was in 2023, the run game, you know, drop him down a couple pegs, a couple more pegs. And if that happens, I think we see a repeat of last year, but the personnel, the wide receiver personnel isn't as good. The one thing we haven't mentioned is we don't know when Brandon Ayuk is coming back. Like Adam Schennery said it could be mid-season. Kyle Shadyan is holding out hope it's week one. But I think the more realistic outcome is he's not back until October. And we saw what that did to him when he missed training camp last year, how long it took

for him and brought Bernie to get on the same page. I don't know if they ever really did last year. So there's a chance of this passing game is worse, just based on talent. Well, now you have me thinking, is there any scenario? Like, let's say they win six games again and the passing game doesn't look good. Like, is this Purdy contract a marriage with Kyle Shanahan for the duration? Is there a scenario where Purdy is under contract for the majority of this deal without Kyle Shanahan as his head coach? That's kind of what I laid out in the article I wrote was like, there's more pressure on Kyle now, not Purdy.

Like people think that when you get paid, there's more pressure on you. But I think the pressure it's on Kyle because we've seen what the floor for this passing game is. And the floor, like you said last year, when you step back, you look at it. And you're like, oh, Purdy was actually pretty good. The 49ers front office was like, well, that was enough for us to give him $250 million. Purdy's not going to get the blame. This offense looks like it looked like last year. It's going to be Kyle Shane.

It's going to be on the run game. It's going to be on the offensive line. We're going to hear the same questions about Purdy's ability to change the protections. It's going to be a repeat of last year. And based on last year, you're going to be on last year. year, it was Kyle getting the blame at the end of the year, more so than Purdy. All right. Deontay, what do you?

That was a juicy prediction from Ruiz. Did you say you had the same thing or something similar? I had the same one, so I'll make it a little bolder. I'll say the defense goes top 10 and the offense does not and they still miss the playoffs. And I think that if that happens, that really opens up the Kyle Shanahan, you know, fraud watch conversation. I'm getting like tense here. I'm getting uncomfortable with it.

I don't even know Kyle Shedahan, but I'm like, man. Let me ask you a question I think you have made the right point Oh go ahead Let me ask you a question If they do move on from Kyle Shannon In which direction do you think they would go And you don't have to name a coach

But like what style of coach do you go in after Shanahan You have to You always go for the opposite of your rights right You're going to go with the you know Players coachiest defensive guy that you can possibly find Gus Bradley Oh my gosh

Well I think that the other part of that is You probably start calling, you call Pete Carroll. If something goes wrong in Las Vegas and said, hey, man, you want to come back to California? I mean, we're getting way ahead of ourselves. But if this goes in the direction, you two are predicting, what can the Niners get for Kyle Shanahan in a trade? I mean, I give up to first. This is what I'm saying.

All right. Yeah. You're guys. I give over second rounder. Second rounder, we can talk. I would probably. Yeah. I guess we would have to think about the organization.

But yes, I would not laugh at you if you came in, if I were an owner and you came into my office and said, let's give up a first for Kyle Shanahan. I said, I wrote, What would you give up? I would give up if you were in the mayor of families. Shanahan and Archmanning.

Wow. I mean, I did write. I remember I wrote my column after they lost to the chiefs, and I'm looking at Andy Reed, and then I'm looking at Shanahan and going, are the Niners? To Shannon, what the Eagles were to read. Is there a second act here where he's not just getting close,

he's got maybe a quarterback that he really, really likes or is really, really special, and he ends up winning multiple Super Bowls at that next stop. So, man, you guys took it an interesting direction. All right, Niners fans listening, don't worry, I can, you can breathe. I'm going in the opposite direction. I got him playing on championship weekend in the NFC. I think with this schedule, they're going to bounce back in a big way. I'm not ready to say Super Bowl.

We'll talk in August. I might be willing to go there. I'm considering it. But I put them on the list of contenders in the NFC. There are things that make me very nervous, the O-line depth, are you coming off the injury, needing young guys to be good right away, the secondary. That's a pretty long list right there of stuff that makes me a little bit nervous.

That might limit their ceiling in my eyes. But I still think this is going to be a very good team with a good, offense with an easy schedule with an upgraded defensive coordinator that bounces back. But I'll be honest. For content, I like your guy's version of how this goes a lot better than my version here. Wow, that's exciting. All right. 40 minutes on the Niners.

How about that? All right, we got other teams to get to here. The Los Angeles Rams. They are the favorites in the NFC West. They went 10 and 7 last year. They had the best odds in the division at plus 170. The third best odds to come. out of the NFC per fan duel behind only the Eagles and the Lions, and they are sixth in Super Bowl odds.

I feel like we've talked quite a bit about the Rams off season, so I don't feel bad about maybe running through this quickly. But Ruiz, how do you grade the Los Angeles Rams off season? I gave it a beat. I still have questions about like the offensive line, the run game, their ability to protect when defenses know they're going to pass the football. I think that's when they really struggled last year. But being able to retain Matthew Stafford, I think, is what elevated it to a B to me,

because there was a very realistic scenario where it's like Jimmy G or somebody else starting for this team, which is a disaster scenario. But I think if you have Stafford there, the ceiling is much, much higher. I don't know if it's a Super Bowl ceiling for me, but I get those odds that you just laid out. Like, I understand why people are optimistic about this team. I just have my questions that I think they're holding me back from going all in on them. Yeah, I said Deontay on the Philly special, there was only one possession during the Eagle Super Bowl run that if it went differently, it could have stopped them from winning a Super Bowl. And that was against the Rams, that last possession where Jalen Carter puts a move, I forget on the center or the right guard.

Their back-to-back plays where if he doesn't get home, and that's a touchdown, it's possible that the Rams win that. That's the only possession in the whole Eagle Super Bowl run where you say, if this possession or this series or these three plays went differently, the Eagles aren't Super Bowl champs. And so I guess it's not crazy to think that they could get back there and be in the mix this season. 1,000% and it's funny. I think that a lot of my grades are almost in alignment with what we were talking about with the GMs.

We were talking about GMs going into the draft. I'm giving this grade on the assumption that they ultimately trade a couple day three picks to get Jalen Ramsey. I'm giving them an A minus. If they don't complete that trade, I'll drop them down to a B plus. But I'm giving them an A minus, because they did exactly what they needed to do,

which was construct this roster for 2026 and beyond, but leave just enough room to be able to maximize one last window with Matthew Stafford. You go get Devante Adams, and that is basically throwing the bone to Stafford of saying, hey, if you can be healthy again, if we can get you to January and you're healthy, we're going to give you a shot to really go try to win this thing.

And if not, everybody shakes their hands. We go in our separate directions more likely than not, and we start building for whatever the next iteration of the Rams franchise is going to be. I think that let go of Cooper Cup was the right move. I did not love Tutu Atwell getting double-digit millions to be the wide receiver three. I don't love that, but I know that or at least I expect that the Rams are going to be a lot more diverse offensively. And now when you look at their top two wide receivers in Pooka and DeVante Adams, it kind of behooves you to be a little bit more tight-in, lean on your tight-ins a little bit more,

to do a little more out of the play action game, where you can start pushing the ball. downfield again and not be so much about choice routes and Matthew Stafford having to be an ultra processor in the pocket, not that he's incapable, but just at this stage of his career, you probably just don't want to expose them as often in those pure drawback scenarios. And I'm assuming that the defense can hold based on what their best players are and where they won. And those are guys who are able to get after the quarterback. And I think that I think that Byron Young, I think Braden Fiske, I think Kobe Turner, you know, I think that all these, I think that all those guys are going to be just as good around Jaredverse as we saw going in the last season.

And I just, I have really, really high expectations for the Rams coming into 2025. I gave him an A. So I'm going even higher than you did. I just feel like if a week after that loss to the Eagles, you would have told me they're going to bring Stafford back. They're going to replace Cooper Cup with Devante Adams. And then the big one to me, where I'm probably just leaning into my nerdy, analytical, be a good team builder. part of my brain is that they made that trade with the Falcons. That gives them an extra first round pick in 2026.

And I've gone on and on about it on this podcast. But I just feel like that's hard to do to have a season where you can potentially have a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. And if it doesn't work out, you go into the next off season with two first round picks and a chance to pivot and not have that big gap kind of between one era and the next era. So I thought the way they navigated that.

And you're right, Deonté, part of this does go, who am I given the benefit of the doubt to? And we talked about less need and less needs done an excellent job. And so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here as well. So I feel like if you zoom out, this offseason went just about as well as you could have hoped for if you were a Rams fan, even if some of those parts of the roster that you guys mentioned aren't great and are question marks and guys have to prove themselves and maybe they have another move or two to make. I think the big moves worked out pretty much as good as you could have hoped for if you were a Rams fan. So I've got to them at an A. All right, better or worse than last year when they were 10 and 7, you know,

still going to the end there. It was no given that they were going to be in the playoffs, but they go 10 and 7 advance to the divisional round of the playoffs. Ruiz, what do you think? Is this, is it likely that this is a better team than last year or is it likely that they go in the other direction? I think it is a better team than last year. I think they found something after the by week. They started out one and four and they win nine out of 11 games, before they rest their starters in the final week. I think the defensive line gets better. We didn't mention the Puna Ford signing,

which I think helps out. What their biggest problem last year was not being able to get into those obvious passing situations, not being able to stop running, really sought into the two games against the Eagles, where Sequan Berkeley basically, you know, called game in both games. If they can short up the defensive line,

like the interior run defense, I think that they have a chance to be much better on defense, even compared to what they were last year when they kind of punched above their weight. And then I'm always going to have faith. than Sean McVeigh. And I do think that Devante Adams signing helps the past game. It's an upgrade over the cup. The offensive line is just a problem for me. I just can't get around it. And I think it's been when this offense has struggled since Sean McVeigh got there in 2017,

it's been because of the offensive line. And I don't think it's going to be one of the better ones that they've had over that time. Yeah, they've tried different things too. Last offseason, they make the big signings on the interior. Now a year later, Jonah Jackson is gone. They trade him to the Lions. Admit a mistake. there and go in a different direction. They also had a, but, you know, they, last year alone, they had eight different O-line combinations play at least 50 snaps, which I don't know if that's most in the NFL, but I do this for every team we go over, and it's definitely among the highest.

I mean, the bills, I think, had three all season long, where their top five played like 800 snaps. You didn't have that with the Rams. So they were really mixing and matching, pivoting from their off-season plan, had injuries, and you still end up with an offense that's, you know, pretty good, a top-10 offense. last year. Can that 2026 first round pick play guard for them next year? Yeah, I know. Deiante, what do you have better or worse than last year? I think better, but very, very slightly. And it's just because they absolutely maximized on what they were able to get out of this team

by the time they got to the postseason, being able to push Philadelphia to the very end. They run the Vikings off the field in spite of everything that was going on in Los Angeles, Santa Monica fire with the Palisades fires and all of that. So, I'm optimistic. I am optimistic. I do need to see them find something a lot more stable in the run game. And maybe to your point, She'll just having continuity that they were never able to land upon

helps them get what they needed. Because I just remember in December, I think there were a couple of episodes where I was watching the Rams and hosts when we were talking. I was like, I don't see a playoff team right now. Yeah. Because Matthew Stafford just does not look very good in the pocket. Ultimately, they get to the postseason and he gets hot again.

And you're always kind of looking, that threat always looms as an opponent of the Rams, is that Stafford just at 37, at 30 years, it's just going to be on a heater, and there's going to be nothing you can do about it when he's rolling. They do just need to establish enough around him, I think. Like I said earlier, to get him to January in one piece, not having to be a superhero in this passing game.

And if you can get he and Adams healthy into the postseason, then yeah, I think that they're a legitimate contender to get to the conference championship game. Yeah, because like you're saying like he's on a heater, it's like even more than that with Stafford. Like when he's, when he's, like, especially last, year when he was going, it was like in spite of the protection. It was in spite of the offensive line.

And he's like basically doing like 360, no scope, just hidden. It's insane. And at his age, you don't want your quarterback to be doing that every week. You want him to have to be able to pull that out of his back pocket in January. He threw a no look against the Eagles on like the first possession where, you know, Eagles are running these intricate zones. I was like, oh, man, we're in for one of those games. How do you move the underneath defenders?

you know, is it when you have a specific route? And no, he's just like, I'm going to look at you. You can't drop back there and I'm going to throw it there. I'm like, wow. That is ridiculous. That's one way to beat those underneath the vendors or move them. So the highs were still high. I'm with you, Deonti.

I don't want to forget sort of how I felt in November and December when it's like, it looks like, you know, the decline could be coming. He's on the ropes a little bit. I wonder if they do something. And remember, week 18, they sit the starters. They didn't care about seating. It was so clear. They're like, Matthew Stafford needs a breather here.

If we're going to try to win four games in a row, he needs a breather here. Maybe they do something unorthodox. You know, maybe they're like 14-point favorites or something in a December game. And McVeach is like, Jimmy, you're up. Matthew needs a breather. Or maybe they're up big in the third quarter. And they're like, all right, Stafford, you're on the bench here. We've got to limit those reps.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't think any of those things are realistic, obviously. but it's on their mind. There's no doubt about it. He's entering his age 37 season. It's a long season. You need him at his best in January. Can you make that happen? So I've got them better. I don't think they're a team that really benefited from all those sort of luck versus unlucky factors I mentioned with the Niners. They were middle of the road for pretty much all of those. So I think their record was legit last year. And again, that last loss doesn't mean anything.

So they could have been 11 and 6. And then Ruiz's point can't be over. stated about just faith in McVeigh. I mean, he's kind of like a mini Tomlin at this point, you know, eight seasons, seven with the winning record, different quarterbacks, different injuries. Sometimes in September, you're thinking this isn't looking good, and they still sort of always find a way. I think his problem solving is a great trait that kind of separates him, maybe some from some other great coaches who what they do is great, but when it doesn't go well, do they have a plan B? He usually is able to just figure it out. Take a breather. Look at his personnel and say, what's our best chance to win football games?

And so, again, eight seasons, a winning record seven times. I think you put your faith in Sean McFay here. All right, way too early prediction. I'll start. Puka Nakua leads the NFL in receiving yards. How about that? Miss six games last year. But his like efficiency status, like yards per route running are insane.

It's insane. Like literally some of the best in the true media database that goes back 25 years. So he was very effective when he was on the field, average 90 yards per game. Now, maybe Devante Adams steal some targets, but maybe Devante adams steal some attention. And Puka Nakua is able to stay healthy and have just a monster season. So that will be my way too early prediction. Deonti, what do you got? I love that.

I just think for me with Pukinakua, for all my Ted Leso fans, I just watch him and he's like receiver Danny Rojas. I'm like, you just don't have enough concern for your long-term health. Like you were willing to lay away too much on the line to get a catch or to get an extra yard or two. You know, so hopefully he is available. I will say that my way too early prediction is another bold one, similar to San Francisco's. I think that the Rams are hosting the NFC championship game.

Wow. Okay. So you're bullish on them. I think that they will be in the final four in the NFL. And I think if I was to make a more tempered one and it's still bold old, it would be that Jared Averse is going to end up when a defensive player of the year next year. I think that what I saw last year for him as a pass rusher,

very similar to what we saw from Will Anderson early in his rookie season. It was like, oh, this is a guy who has not yet figured out how to build upon a full pass rushing skill set, but just off motor, off first step, off power. And I do think, you know, it's kind of ethereal, but just a feel for knowing how to get to the quarterback, he has all those things in spades. I think another huge step forward is coming for him. and if they are able to acquire Jaylon Ramsey, like I said, I think that they're going to have all the pieces necessary

to take one last swing at trying to bring another Lombardi trophy to the Rams. Yeah, I mentioned that playoff game against the Eagles. I remember watching the film of that, thinking that was the best performance by a defensive player against the Eagles all year, Jared Verst in that game against a very good offensive line. And he was awesome. He was awesome. And he was like, because he talked some junk before the game.

And then he's, you know, telling the fans, bring on the booze. then his film. I'm like, man, he was ridiculous in that game. So I love that. If you, you know, talk to talk, walk the walk as a rookie especially, you know, sky's the limit for Jared Verse. All right, Ruiz, what do you have? Way too early prediction on the Los Angeles Rams. Mine's kind of a bummer now, especially like after we were nerding out about Stafford. My prediction is it's his final year with the Rams. I just think the writings on the wall. We also saw the contention. I don't know if there was real tension there. There was some. I feel like there definitely. I think then you had to manage it.

If there weren't that contract situation gets handled way earlier. That's a good point. And like the other thing about it is like they didn't end up giving him an extension. They just revised the deal that he had. There was two years left. There's still two years left. If he's on the roster, I think it's on the first day of free agency, he gets $40 million locked in for next year. I don't know if that's going to happen.

That's not happening. It's kind of a bummer because I've loved this marriage. Like the staffer, I know Stafford's been banged up. The team has been banged up since 2021. But when those guys are on a heater, him and McVeigh, it's as fun to watch as any offense in the NFL. Yeah, it changed his entire legacy these years with the Rams. You know, he would have been, all right, talented guy, monster arm, didn't have the right pieces around him. There's a lot of those stories in NFL history, but he was able to get to a different spot and change it here at the end.

So we'll see what it looks like here with Stafford. Actually, has any quarterback changed their reputation of being a winner as effectively as Matthew Stafford has over the last year? Because it was like the opposite, right? It was like he was the stack guy who never won. Exactly. The nickname Statt Padford, which, by the way, elite stuff. We don't make it. We don't have heard that.

Excellent nickname. Very good. And yeah, I mean, literally one post season run later, like all of that has been washed away. Yeah. That is one of the most impressive, I think, turns in a career art that you'll see at a quarterback, especially at his age. At that age, yeah, it doesn't usually happen. All right, let's take a break.

We come back. Two more teams to get to the Arizona. Cardinals and the Seattle Seahawks. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. Third in odds in the NFC West, the Arizona Cardinals coming off an 8-9 season. They are plus 390 to win the division behind the Rams and the 49ers. They are plus 136 to make the playoffs. They're over under for wins is 8 and a half.

Their offseason signed Josh Sweat, Callais Campbell, and Dalvin Tomlinson on defense, drafted Walter Nolan, drafted Michigan corner, Will Johnson, who fell to the second round because of some injury concern. So an upgrade in talent on defense. Offensively, they're pretty much running it back here. Ruiz, how do you assess the Arizona Cardinals offseason? I gave them another B. I'm just giving everyone a B. It's hard.

Yeah, you have like an A, you have a D. And then most of the other teams like falling up to the same tier. Yeah, but I'm very bullish on this team. I'm going to join the hipsters. I think the hipsters were a year early. Don't do it, Ruiz. Don't do it. Come back.

Pull you. Let me pull you back. No, I just think they were a year early. I'm just saying sometimes teams come up. It's not just hipster love. They had the best point differential in the division. They scored the most points in the division. You think about all these offensive geniuses, Sean McVeigh,

Kyle Shanahan, Gino Smith, another offensive genius. But they scored the most points. And I think the one issue that I have with the offense is, is Kyler Murray, an obvious passing situation, not just Kyler Murray, but the whole offensive line, they got blitz to hell last year. Like, that was the main strategy for defenses is, when we get into obvious passing situations,

we're not going to let Kyler Murray scramble around and find openings. We're going to send six after him. No escape lanes whatsoever. We got a guy in every gap, and Kyler Murray's just going to have to figure it out. And with that offensive line and with Kyler Murray's height, that was just a recipe for disaster. And I went back and watched all their blitzes on third down,

earlier this morning, and it was just him kind of chucking up, throws off his back. And it's hard to blame anyone on the offense. Like, you can blame the offensive line, because the interior offensive line, particular, was caving in every time. So you understand why Tyler Murray was rushing things. But at the same time, you're a quarterback. You're supposed to stand in there. You can pay a lot of money, stand in there and deliver throws, and he wasn't doing it.

So I think that's where the offense takes the next step. And I do think that they're trying to make moves to solidify that offensive line. And then on the other side of the ball, they just got to get to third down. They sucked on first down. They couldn't stop the run. They couldn't stop the pass. And I think building up the defensive line, like they did, brought in a couple of veterans.

I think that was the smart move. So I can see this team taking a step on both sides. Deonti, what do you think? How do you assess their offseason? To me, this is like a solid a C as it can get to me. I look at this team and I'm like, this is like the Brick Johnson All-Stars. Like, these are a bunch of names in Madden

that will be between like 77 and 83 overall. You're going to be asked to write in August. You know, like they'd all be between like 77 and 83 overall, and you can make them look much better than they actually are when you have them as like your user control player. But I'm just like wholly unmoved, I think, with how I conceptualize this team. This looks like a 9 and 8 football team

in whether or not they get to 9 and 8 or if they're 6 and 11 and 7 and 10 is going to be based on whether or not Kyler Murray can be the ceiling razor that he is at his best. And you look at their schedule, and I think a lot of preconceived notions about Kyler Murray, whether it's optimistic or otherwise, are definitely built to be confirmed. And I think we'll get to that when we talk about the predictions.

But the wide receiver depth is a little bit better. I do think that Zay Jones helps. I think that having Trey McBride as your Yack guy underneath helps as well. I think that Marvin Harrison's Jr.'s usage will continue to improve on year-to-year basis because that is a profile of receiver that Kyler Murray's never had before. And I do think that there were just some misses and the way that they were operating that offense that will get ironed out over time. And then defensively, Stephen said it.

Like, they needed to address the interior of the defensive line because all the cool creative stuff they do on second and obvious and third and obvious, they don't get to access often enough because they get their asses kicked on first down. And I think that you brought in the right kind of big bodies to be able to address that. And then ultimately, their ceiling as a past defense is going to be banked upon whether or not Will Johnson has number one corner potential. Even if it's high number two, I think that that will be a win for them based on where they drafted him late in the second round.

But I think if he shows anything like what he was at his best at Michigan, you're going to be feeling really, really bullish, I think about the Cardinals being a potential sleeper in the NFC. That was honestly like the perfect landing spot for a player like him. Cardinals don't want to play Man Coverage. And when they play Man Coverage, they're blitzing everybody. That's the only time they play Man Coverage is when they're calling covers here, which they did a lot.

They did have the third highest rate on third down last year. But just returning to the point, like they weren't 8-19 last year. But there were some close calls against very good teams. They lost my six to Buffalo, seven to Detroit, one to Minnesota and four to the Rams. If they win those coins, they win those.

If they make the right analytical call there, I remember us talking about it. They kicked the field goal. Go up from three to six. You're right. It could be a different conversation. Imagine how we're talking about it. They get like the luck. I'm thinking of like a lucky team recently. Like the 2023 Vikings where they were winning every close game. If they had that

type of close game luck and they win these games, they beat Buffalo in Detroit and Minnesota and they finish 12 and five. Like how are we talking about this team right now. It's true. That's fair. That's fair. I give them a B minus.

I think that they obviously realized that our defensive talent kind of stinks and we need to upgrade. I don't think it went exactly how they might have hoped it would have gone, but you can't, you don't always get all the players. You want to get there. And so I'm with you, Deonté, I looked at it. I'm like, I mean, Josh Sweat before the playoffs, you know, the conversations around Josh Sweat were very different than the conversations around Josh Swet after the

Super Bowl. Like he was not a, he did not have a fantastic season overall. So I think he'll be an upgrade and solid. I don't think he's going to be someone that offenses have to game plan for how are we going to block him? Calais Campbell and Dalvin Tomlinson. These are older vets. Old guys. Yeah. I get no issue signing some older vets, but I also don't know that they're going to make a huge difference. The rookie class here is also very important, just like we kind of talked about with the Niners. I mean, Nolan and Will Johnson, I think, are both high-ceiling players where if one of them looks like, man, they look like, they look. like they can contribute right away, then maybe you have something. But I still look at that, man,

I look at that Cardinals defensive depth chart and I'm still like, it needs another offseason of work. It's not at a place where I'm like, this is going to be a very good defense again this year. To your guy's point, I mean, they finished 31st and defensive success rate. So just early downs, they could not get stops when they needed to. They could not put themselves in advantageous situation. So I gave them a B-minus there. I think this is the exact kind of team that could that either needs to have an elite offensive line or an A plus playmaker on the perimeter and they have neither.

And that to me I think is the biggest hang up. If they had an A.J. Brown on this team, I would feel very different about them. If they had, you know, it doesn't have to be Detroit, right? It doesn't have to be at the level of Detroit's offensive line. But if they had an A, B plus A minus offensive line, I will feel much differently about this offensive ceiling. I'm just so hung up waiting on Marvin Harrison Jr.

to turn into something and the interior of this offensive line to be as good as their investment over the last couple of years that suggested they expect it to be. Yeah, the interior offensive line, I think, is the key for them. Like, that's the difference between what they were last year, which was, like, hovering around a top 10 offense and them being a top five offense. Like, I honestly think that's on the table this year, especially if Marvin Harrison Jr. takes a step I didn't like his film last year. I'm kind of lower on him than I was before he came into the league.

But if he does take a next step and the offensive line is just fine, or solid compared to what it was last year, this could be a top five offense to me. Like, it almost was. Like, the bones are there. They have a quarterback who is good. They have an offensive coordinator who seems to have the, like, he did it two years in a row for me now.

Like, I think Drew Petzing, compared to like the other guys that, the other young offensive coordinators who kind of burst onto the scene in 2023, he's the one that really, like, carried it over to 2024 and improved upon what they did. So I'm interested to see what this is, what this looks like this year. But I think the offense,

no matter what, it's going to be good. So you were saying better than last year, I assume, better or worse than last year? Yes, better than last year. Okay. All right. Deonti, what do you got? Better or worse than last year? I think better.

I think if there's a year where Kyle and Mary is healthy for the entire stretch of the season and really shows down the stretch that he's a kind of quarterback that I know he can be at his best, I think that this team can be a double-digit-win team. They can be a top-eight offense in the NFL. And I trust what they're doing defensively to be able to hold. from a year to year basis. Because I don't think that while they do a lot of creative stuff, the stuff that I watch that I like of them is all stuff you can replicate.

A lot of it is just mixing up looks. I understand how you talk yourself into them. I've got them marginally better, but mostly the same. Eight and nine feels right about the place where I would have them for this year. That was with Kyler Murray starting all 17 games. Last year with Murray, they're 36, 45 and 1. They've never had a top 10 offense by DVO.A. I know they've been close. You're right. They were very close last year and another year as well,

but never been in the top 10 by DVOA with him as the starter. And they've made the playoffs once in six seasons with him there. So is this the year that the narrative shifts, that some of the pieces around him, maybe are a little bit better, that the defense is a little bit better. We shall see they were banged up last year. I will be fair about it. They got hit hard with injuries specifically on defense. They had seven different O line combinations, play at least 50 snaps. And to Ruiz's point, they were three and five in one score games. If that's five and three, and all of a sudden, a couple of those wins are against very good teams, then maybe we're having a different conversation about the Arizona Cardinals.

All right, way too early prediction. I'm excited. Let's start with Ruiz. I'm excited. What is this going to be with how he's been talking about these Arizona Cardinals? I emphasis on way too early because I'm definitely going to change this by August. They win the division. That's my prediction.

They're then you see West champs. I do, I think the offense, I think they attacked. the problems that they had last year with the run defense on the defensive side, I think we see a better offensive line and we see a scheme that protects Kyler Murray from his physical limitations, i.e., he's very short. And that's what defense is preyed upon last year. If you take that out, if you take away the blitzes and then the third down and the pocket came in it in, he was one of the better quarterbacks and one of the more efficient

quarterbacks in the NFL. If they could just deter defenses from blitzing the hell out of them, I think this is a top five offense next year. Deontay, what do you got? So to me, I have them making the playoffs, but it is going to look exactly like how it did in 2021. You look at their schedule, and I want to say seven, eight or eight of maybe the first nine games

are either at home or indoors. So early in the season, when they always look good, they're going to be playing in front of a home crowd or they'll be in a dome. I think that they're going to run it up offensively. And then you look after that Cowboys game, and they've got to see, you know, you've got to see the Rams twice.

You've got to see the Texans. You've got to see the Bengals. It's Texans, Falcons, Bengals, Rams in December basically to close out the season. That to me feels very much like, oh, this team got in at 10 and 7, but they were 10 and 3 going into the last month of the season and went 0 and 4 and it'll limp their way in and ultimately losing a wild card round. But I do think that this office is going to put up some really impressive numbers. Their schedule similar to the 49ers, obviously another division mate is very much tailored,

I think, for them to put up big numbers on the offense event. All right. My way, we're not on the same side with the Niners. We're not on the same side with the Cardinals. My prediction is there will be a point in the first 10 weeks where everyone is convinced they're going to win the division and that Kyler Murray is discussed as an MVP candidate and then they won't be in the playoffs when all said and done. Eight or nine wins, not in the playoffs. Once again, putting on my hater hat here for the Arizona Cardinals. We haven't had Ropee Shea in a little while. I like this. Last team, the Seattle Seahawks. Last in division odds, who would have thought it? Plus 550 to win the division. Plus 186 to make the playoffs. To put that into perspective,

the only teams in the NFC with worse odds to make the playoffs, the Cowboys, Panthers, Saints, and Giants. That's it. Over under for wins for the Seahawks is seven and a half. I feel like I have given my opinion on the Seahawks offseason. Many a time on this podcast in the previous months, but let's put a grade on it. Deontay, what do you got?

So for me, I'm giving them a C plus, and it's funny. I feel totally different about what they did on both sides of the ball. If we were only grading offensive moves and defensive moves, I think that we would see the Delta, because I really don't like where they're situated offensively, but I love bringing in to Marcus Lawrence to see if you can get something out of them for one year. Obviously, Mike McDonnell going back to Baltimore,

where you have a long history now of them being able to maximize veteran aging guys, being able to get something else out of them for one or two more years. I do trust that they'll be able to do so. And we have last year's evidence of Leonard Williams being healthy all year and being a big-time contributor for them defensively as well. I think that he can get the most out of Nick and Memorial. We don't have to set the ceiling at Kyle Hamilton, even though you see versatile skill set with Nickyman-Wry.

I do think you can get him in the slot. You can play them deep if you need to. There's a lot of different ways that you can use him productively, and I expect that they'll do so. And yeah, the only reason why this is not a B-minus or better is Sam Darnold obviously brought in as a quarterback. You have Cooper Cup, who just does not look like he has the same juice that he did two, three years ago in his career.

And Marcus Vald is Scantling now as your outside field stretcher guy, who's nice to have for a poster out every once in a while, but it's not going to be consistent enough, I think, to be able to help raise the level of play around Sam Darnold. And this offensive line has just been very disappointed. winning over the last two or so seasons with Gino Smith, who's great against the blitz and great against pressure, and now you're dropping a quarterback that is the complete opposite

in those situations behind that offensive line of Sam Donald. I just do not have a whole lot of optimism for what it's going to look like on that side of the ball. C plus from Deonté Ruiz. What do you got? I'm going D-plus. I think this is like, just looking at the offense because I agree, like the defensive moves, they all make sense to me on paper.

DeMarcus Lawrence, I think he's going to have a good year. resigning Ernest Jones made sense with what he was after he came over. I think the defense is going to be better than it was last year. I still think it has room to grow. It was the best third down defense in the NFL, but on early downs, it wasn't very good.

And I think with these moves, especially on the defensive line, you have Ernest Jones for a full year, that you're going to see a better first and second down defense, which is going to make their third down defense even scarier. Even better, right? But offensively, they're the only team in the NFL that lost the top 10 quarterback, in my opinion.

And that's what I think Gino Smith is. like the opposite is that you're replacing them with like the antithesis of what they needed, given their offensive line situation and what their problems were on offense last year. Now the saving grace could be the offensive coordinator change going from Ryan Grub to Clint Kubiak. By the way, this is a two Kubiak offensive coordinator division. I didn't realize it. 49ers have a Kubiak and Seattle now has a Kubiak. That's right.

I look at it. They had a mediocre offense last year and they replaced Gino Smith with Sam Darnel. They replaced D.K. Metcalfe with Cooper. Cup. They replaced Ryan Grubb with Clint Kubiak, and they add one offensive lineman who is a rookie in Gray's Abel. So that does not inspire me. As I've mentioned before, I'm giving them a C-minus. I like what they did on defense too. I think the defense can be pretty good. I'll be honest, I looked at this roster and I was like, if they had Gino Smith and D.K. Betcalf, I wonder what my prediction would be for this team, Mike McDonald, in year two. Maybe with an offensive

coordinator who I felt like had a stronger track record than Clint Kubiak. But the reason I didn't go lower is because I don't like the plan, but I do understand what they were potentially trying to do here. I don't agree with it. I don't agree with their assessments or their evaluations. And I don't think the downside is that low because I think if they have a bad season, it's like they're going to be back to the drawing board at quarterback, but they're really only locked into Darnold for one season when you look at kind of the game.

guarantees there. So I just, it comes down to I don't buy that Donald is going to be the same guy he was in Minnesota and I don't buy that Clint Kubiak is like some kind of offensive savant who can coach around O-line deficiencies and it's going to look totally different this year. Maybe I'll be wrong on one or both of those counts, but that's how I feel. I mean, we literally have a bunch of tape of that from last year and it did not look great. That's what I'm saying. But people keep telling me, Deontay. I don't know. Like you have literally dropped them into the exact same circumstances that made that office look bad. An offensive line

that is often injured and bad up the middle and a wide receiver core that cannot, you know, that does not separate very often in the intermediator or vertical plane. And that's exactly what they were dealing with. Basically the last 14 weeks of the season after Chris Oliva, Rashah, and Eric McCoy and all those guys

got hurt in New Orleans. I don't know why I would believe it would look any different with Sam Donald Undercenter than it did with Derek Carr and Spencer Rattler last year. I don't see it. I'm with you. All right. Better or worse than last year?

I can start. Should be pretty obvious. I think they're worse. They went 10 and 7 last year, just missed out on the playoffs. They were 18th and offensive DVOA, 10th and defensive DVOA. They were 6 and 2 in one score games. And again, this really just comes down to I think the offense is going to be worse. I actually think the offense specifically has quite a low floor where if you get bad

darnald combined with bad offensive line. If Jackson Smith and Jigba misses six weeks or something, like this being one of the worst five or six offenses in the NFL, in my opinion, is in play this season. So I am bullish on the defense. I think that probably sets the floor a little bit higher in terms of the team's record. But I think overall this is a worst team. I would be surprised if this team made the playoffs this year.

Deonté, what do you got? If this roster held exactly, I might make the argument that they're worse because their performance down the second. half of the season last year was banked on a lot of high varying stuff like their third down defense, which Stephen mentioned, forcing a bunch of turnovers. They basically swept the Cardinals last year because of turnovers and third down defense, not because their offense

was great. And they didn't play their best against their top competition, right? Like, this was very much a can beat bad teams. Yes. We kind of struggle on offense against good teams. We definitely saw that as they were trying to make a push for the postseason. And now all the pieces that I thought gave them a higher ceiling are out of the building outside of Mike McDonald. That's the one guy who I think could be a ceiling razor for this team,

and he doesn't get to put on the pads at all. I don't know how this team is not the worst in the NFC West. Just look if you're banking on, even if you're banking on the absolute best outcome for Sam Darnold, I don't think that there's enough around him for them to be a double-digit-win team again. Ruiz? Yeah, I think they're definitely worse. They went six and two in close games last year,

which kind of inflated that 10-and-7 record. And I totally agree with you with the offense. I feel like this is a very low-floor offense. And what I'm envisioning is kind of like a, Jets team, like pick any Jets team from like the last decade. Strong defense, questionable offense that kind of sets back the defense and makes things harder. And I think that's the type of season.

They're going to have seven, eight wins. We're going to talk about Mike McDonald being a genius, but we're going to, you know, commiserate about the offensive line and the quarterback situation. By the way, I just found this out today. Seattle's defensive coordinator has a British accent. Their defensive coordinator has a British accent, which shouldn't matter, but kind of does matter. Yeah, he was on one of the hard.

safe home, safe haven for nepotism hires. You got the Kubiak here, you've got a hardball here on the staff, you know. It's an amazing. Look at the Rams. The Rams, it's all, it's a whole NEPO coaching staff. If there's any place with plenty of options that are safe havens for nepotism, I would, the NFL, you know, there's no, we could do a top 15, a top 32 maybe, even we would be able to do in the NFL. All right. My way too early prediction, I'll end on a positive note. for you, Seahawks fans.

They have a top three defense. Byron Murphy in year two. Next to Leonard Williams. I like the DeMarcus Lawrence signing. If nothing else, he gives you a stout run defender. I like Emin Worry as a fun wild card. I kind of give McDonald the benefit of the doubt. And then to your guy's point, that was the first season under Mike McDonald.

Now year two, with a lot of the same pieces, I think, has a chance to be really exciting. So not bullish on the team, but I feel like they can have one of the best defenses in the NFL. even though some questions at corner and some questions at various spots on the depth chart, I think they can figure it out. Deontay, what do you have? What's your way too early prediction? I think that by the time they see the Vikings on November 30th, we're getting we want Melro chance. I love that. November 30th. I think this is a one and done year for Sam Donald in Seattle. And I think that they're going to end up giving their backup quarterbacks a shot. I can just envision this being a disaster passing game for, for,

Seattle and you look at their schedule early in the year, they do not have the kind of breaks that San Francisco or Arizona have. They're going to see some pretty good teams. They're going to be on the road quite a bit as well against good teams early in the season. They could be out of contention pretty early in this thing. All right. One and done for Darnold. Ruiz, what do you got? Sort of along the same lines. I'm going Drew Locke starts a game that's not due to injury. I don't know. I don't think it's Milrow. I think Milrow maybe next year you start to hear those chance, but I'm going Drewock. Maybe Milro gets it. It's like a showcase game at the end of the year.

Oh, he'll get one of those taste of home. Fake production games where you throw six passes, but two of them go for like 40 yards, you know. Get a 30-yard run, everybody feels good. Drop them on your fantasy team late in the season just in case you need a flex guy. The Joe Milton game last year. Yeah, with the running ability. Yeah, who knows?

That might be a good ad there. I like it. Deontes already getting the fantasy big board in order. All right. So that's kind of a depressing end. Sorry, Seahawks fans. That Ruiz is pretty. Drew Locke starts, not because of injury.

And Deonté is predicting we want Milro chance before you even get into December. We've been wrong before. Maybe we'll be wrong again, but I think we're on the same page with how we view the Seahawks offense in 2025. All right. That'll wrap it up. The NFC West and actually a fun division, I would say of all the ones we've done so for or will do, these teams have some variants. We have some disagreements on a couple of these teams could really go either way.

So these will be some interesting teams to talk about in the months ahead. All right, thanks to Deonté Lee. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz. Thanks to Christopher Sutton for producing and Kiera Givens on social. I'm Shiel Kapade. We'll be back next week with another division preview on the Ringer NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C.

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