The Ringer NFL Show - Can Jets and Giants Fans Glean Hope from the Knicks’ Championship Run?

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

The Ringer’s own Danny Heifetz and Sean Fennessey get together to examine the New York football vibes after the Knicks won their NBA championship. Sean then breaks down his level of Jets optimism heading into next season, while Danny wonders if John Harbaugh will be able help Jaxson Dart and his beloved Giants level up in 2026.(00:00) The Knicks' championship and New York football(01:46) Have the Knicks given hope to Jets and Giants fans?(06:24) NY Jets optimism(26:23) Jaxson Dart, John Harbaugh, and the NY Giants(48:35) New York football team predictions for ‘26(53:12) Sean on watching the Knicks win a championship with his daughterThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Danny HeifetzGuest: Sean FennesseyProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Stefano SanchezProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. My name is Danny Haifitz. Shield Capati is on a well-deserved vacation. So I'm going to talk with the Ringer's own Sean Fantasy about the Giants, the Jets, the state of New York football, and whether we should believe in either of these teams that have tormented us for the last 10 years. Stick around.

NFL show. My name is not Shield Capati. My name is Danny Hyfitz. I'm the host of the Ringer Fantasy Football Show, and I have the pleasure of being joined by the one and only Sean Fantasy, host of the big picture, author of the excellent substack projections, and a newly optimistic Jets fan.

Sean, how you doing, man? Danny, I'm doing well. I'm doing well for a variety of reasons. I am newly optimistic and delighted to find out if you are as well. I am and I am not. I actually am very excited to do this with you because we're going to hit Giants and Jets in New York football.

I know everyone's just dying to hear about New York football because they're the two worst football teams of the last 10 years by a lot. And yet constantly on mainstream television and Prime time and everyone outside of New York hates it. And yet I think it's the perfect time to check in on these teams because they're literally by every metric and I have them all, the worst teams of the last decade. And yet I want to start, I want to go to the Jets, the Giants, everything about these teams going forward.

But I think we actually have to start with the New York Knicks. And I'm half kidding. I know it's the ringer NFL show. And yet you used this phrase the other day. I don't remember what bought it was, but it was fantastic. You said that the Knicks winning the NBA finals changed my brain chemistry. And I genuinely think we need to start with how did the Knicks winning the finals change

to you view being a Jets fan? It showed me that anything is possible that we can be happy, that there can be a salvation in all of this pain. And when I was talking about it, I talked about it a bit on the Zach Lowe show. I've written about it a bit in my substack, which I don't think was the intention of the substack

to write about the NBA, but I did a little bit. And I think because, you know, I'm a little bit older than you, and I've been watching sports for 44 years, and I have no memories of a championship, and watching a team that I care about win it all, especially the circumstances under which they won it, it just made me a more hopeful person.

It made me believe. Now, you're a Giants fan, and so you have experienced this genuine happiness, and you did so at a young age. and I think that probably makes you a slightly different kind of man. Like I was Steinied. I think that was becoming part of my persona at least

and maybe even my personal experience through life. And now I feel like it's kind of washed away. But do you think that that's changed you at all having experienced two Super Bowls? I mean 100%. So I'm also a Yankees fan. So I grew up like the Yankees won four of the first seven years. So I have the entitlement of a Yankees fan

and I have the sports true naivity optimism of a Giants fan who watched them beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl. You're like, you know, all the great upsets in history, like, you know, Buster Douglas never got to fight Mike Tyson again and the USA never beat the Soviet Union and hockey again. But like the Giants getting a rematch

and then winning that one too is just truly unprecedented. So I have this like naive optimism, but the Knicks felt like this other thing that was just, I think they were, they felt completely removed from the league. They were a side show. No one ever took them seriously. And yeah, I do feel that like it made me feel like a child again. It did make me feel like anything's possible.

And I do think it changed the way I view my other teams. Like I absolutely do. Yeah, it's so funny because, you know, there's a typical breakdown amongst New York fans. And Yankees, Giants, Knicks and Mets, Jets, Knicks, those are the common affiliations. And they're two different kinds of people, I would say. They live their lives differently. They see the world differently. and it doesn't mean that there's not a lot of pain

in being a Yankees fan or a Giants fan. I mean, the Yankees now are coming up on 20 years since they won a World Series, which is a long stretch if you're a fan of that team, is starting to feel a little bit more like the 80s for the Yankees now. And the Giants obviously have been a tire fire for about 10 years now. But there's something very specific about,

you could make the case that through the 2010s, the worst professional sports organization was the New York Knicks. And you can make the case that through the 2020s, the worst professional sports organization is the New York Jets. And if you've been watching the Mets this year, who are 15 games under 500 and are the laughing stock of Major League Baseball with a $380 million payroll, there's just something that is so cosmic in this,

that stew of pain. You know, it's like a witch's cauldron just full of my tears. And the next thing, you're 100% right. It changed something very dramatic. And what it's doing to me now is it's got me fantasizing about things that no reasonable person should when it comes to football. Because football is not basketball.

That is a good point because the truth is it's easier to turn things around in football than in other sports probably because when you get the right, the reality is all these things are ownership on down and you have stubborn owners and impatient owners and stubborn owners stick with people and impatient ones don't. But the truth is most great teams rise and fall when they hire the right people and get out of the way by accident. The Chiefs, I don't think their ownership's anything particularly amazing.

They just hired Aide to read and got really lucky that he was available. The Knicks got really lucky that they got Leon Rose and he put everything in place. And so I think you're right about football where the Jets, I'm very, I don't want to start with the Jets because the EuroJets. The Jets are in a fascinating spot. They just made three first-round picks. They have three first-run picks next year in 2027. Gino Smith's the quarterback. Aaron Glenn, I have a lot of thoughts on it as an in battle to say the least head coach.

I think the Jets, I'm curious what you think, but in a nutshell, I think the Jets are, I think, ill-prepared for the shortest of short-terms and actually have an incredible runway to compete in the AFC East and the medium and long-term. Is that how you feel? Pretty much. I think, let's, like, boil it down really, really, really simply.

The team has been in search of a quarterback for, give or take five years of Chad Pettington, 55 years. It's been a really, really long time since they felt like they've had the answer at the position. And it does come down to one or some combination of the three of those draft picks will be spent next spring on a quarterback. Gino Smith, I have some odd optimism around,

despite being 35 and having the worst season of his career last season. But there's no doubt that Darren Mojy, the team's GM, is building towards, has been building up to, has been building for a young quarterback that they're going to draft. and I think because of some of my weird optimism, the idea of this team maybe being something closer to a 7 and 10 team instead of a 3 and 14 team, that they're going to have to make a trade to go up,

to go get a quarterback that they want, but everything else that they have been doing in terms of asset acquisition, in terms of draft strategy, in terms of who they're retaining versus who they're trading away, they're building towards something that feels very normal, that feels coherent, that doesn't feel like it's being driven by the owner's young Madden playing son.

It doesn't feel like it's being driven by their historically meddling an incompetent owner, Woody Johnson. It does seem like there's a plan. I echo your thoughts about Aaron Glenn, who I would love to be successful, but I think did a horrible job last year. I mean, I think he was the single worst coach in the sport last year, both in terms of in-game decision-making strategy and also how he engaged with a unique component, which is the New York media.

He was not good at being an advocate for his team, his players, or himself. I completely agree. I think Aaron Glenn, frankly, is a nice guy who at best seemed completely overmatched last year. I agree. The media aspect was bizarre, the refusal to share basic things

when he was playing quarterback, the bewilderment. But I agree. The in-game thing was concerning, you know, a lot of West Coasters missed it, but the, do you remember the Jets Broncos London game? Oh yeah. I think the end of the first half, which I won't go into all the details, but basically the end of the first half,

the Jets changed their mind and if they were trying to score or not in the middle of the drive and they couldn't decide whether they wanted to go 25 yards with a minute for a field goal or not. And then they changed their mind in the middle. They were like not going to run it out, then they were going to try. And I actually mean this. I think it's the worst end of half drive I've ever seen in my entire life. I've never seen anything like that at the high school level to decide to not to run it and then be like, actually, we want to field goal.

But everything about it, I think, is a mess with it. I think Aaron Glenn, I have no confidence in, to be honest. I think he's somewhere between a lame duck and a patsy for this coming season. I have no confidence in him. And the clock management, the personnel, but also the way that the season transitioned, I think the Jets, good free agency and a great draft, but the season ended. And the Jets already have changed half their coaching staff and half their players from one year ago. But the season ended.

Three weeks went by. which is an eternity in an offseason. And then Darren Glenn went to Woody Johnson's house, the owner of the Jets, in West Palm Beach, comes back and fires seven assistant coaches, which is one third of the staff three weeks after the season ends. That is never done. It is not done.

You have all season. You fire people like one or two days after the season ends, which to me means Woody is meddling in some things. And I think Aaron Glenn was straight up told that you have to be better the season and you're fired, which I think happened to Robert Salon, in 2024 when they were super desperate and got Devante. I think it happened in 2019 when they gave out the levy on bail

on $120 million guaranteed. Like what he has this thing of giving people like a one year runway? They make all these reckless moves. He gives them a budget and then puts the next people in a hole for the next administration. It's a mess. But I think the GM, I think Mugi, the GM is doing a phenomenal job. And so it's a weird mix of I think this season, I think it's going to be a mess. But also there's an incredible amount of talent on the offense,

which I can't remember the last time we ever said that. I feel like both tackles and all the skill players are incredible up there with anything in the league. I totally agree. They just extended Joe Tipman to their guard. And so it feels like they have three-fifths of a legit, long-term successful plan on the O line. And that was the basis for which the 2000s and even the Rex Ryan teams were successful. It was always a build from the trenches kind of organization. It's kind of similar to how the Mets historically always been a pitching organization and an offensive first organization,

which is painful as a fan. That's the other thing that's related to this is Aaron Glenn is yet another in a long line of first-time defensive-minded head coaches for the franchise. And it's something that, for whatever reason, the Johnson family is addicted to. And it's one of the oddest things to be doing as we've watched the sport evolve

over the last 25 years to continuously hire these folks. Now, when they fired some of those coaches, they were replaced by interesting placeholders. On the defensive side, Brian Duker comes over from the Miami Dolphins, who had previously worked with Aaron Glenn, but now Aaron Glenn will call the defensive plays, which is a big task for a head coach

who also struggles to make decisions, like should we try to kick a field goal at the end of a half in the middle of the game? And then on the offensive side, you got Frank Reich, who seems like a very nice man and who had previously retired and was kind of phasing into a new era of his football life,

and has come back in his 60s in an attempt to design play concepts around all of this exciting young talent, which includes Garrett Wilson, one of the best receivers in the NFL. They recently re-signed Breece Hall. They just drafted Omar Cooper. They just drafted this incredible, fascinating

Swiss Army knife, Kenyon Sadiq. There are Adonai Mitchell heads who believe that he is going to be one of the most exciting receivers in the NFL this season. And Gino, who's got 4,000-yard passing seasons under his belt. And Frank Reich hasn't been a relevant OC in seven years, eight years. I mean, he's been out of the NFL for more than two years.

was fired the previous two years before that. So he hasn't even gone through an NFL season without being fired in four or five years. Yeah. So it does feel like the coaching staff is the only part of the organization that is being set up to fail. And everyone else is kind of operating

in unusually smart ways or at least, like I said, competent ways. So there's a lot to watch this season. I'll tell you this. I actually told your co-host on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show Craig Horleback a few months ago, like, I'm out on this season. What I was going to do was I was going to pivot

to Saturdays. And I was going to make this, you know, arrangement with my wife where let me watch college football this year and then I'll take care of my daughter on Sundays because there's no reason for me to watch the Jets this year because we know where we're headed. But they had such an interesting draft.

And they did a lot of kind of generally, I would say, wise and they didn't overinvest in any way in free agency that now I feel like I have a lot to look at as we head into whatever the next coaching administration is going to be for the team, assuming that Aaron Glenn doesn't totally turn it around. So it's a weird thing where I'm really invested even though I know they're probably

going to sort of suck. And in the past, I would trick myself and think, oh, well, Aaron Rogers is the quarterback. This team should go to the playoffs. Like, that was the true delusion. This is more of a much more measured kind of optimism with long-term expectations like you noted. So it's exciting.

But I don't, I don't, why should I be scared? Why should I be afraid? Why should I just feel like this is same old Jets? I mean, you have to hit the picks and you have to develop them. And I think that a coaching staff needs to develop players. You know, you took David Bailey with the number two pick in the draft, to pass rush her to Texas Tech, who had the best first step of any pass rush in the draft,

probably the best pure pass rusher in the draft. There's questions about his run defense, not that he's a bad run defender, but he's certainly not like an elite run defender. My immediate questions are just like, I feel like when the Jets play the Buffalo Bills, my main concern is you took David Bailey number two, over Arvel Reese, who I think, for better or fours,

the Giants got Arvel Reese at five. Those guys will be compared together. The whole career is good, bad or ugly. But I think my question is, when the Jets play the Buffalo Bills, your best two edge rushers are Will McDonald's. And you have David Bailey, and I don't think they can both be on the field

when the bills have two tight ends. Like straight up, the bills are going to run them off the field? And are you going to pull off Will McDonald's who led the team in Sacks last year or your number two pick because they can't both play together? That's my immediate question. my larger one is just whether they were afraid to take Arvill Reese because the odds of him being misdeveloped under a coaching staff

that's a lame duck staff that's just really high. That's really the concern. But overall, I think this reminds me of the Knicks that I'm not trying to shoot. I mean, I'm wearing a Knicks championship shirt, but you build in order. It's like Pemdos. The order of operations matters. The Jets have two great tackles.

Olu Feshado and Membu had Arman Membu, I think your number seven pick, where I can't put the Raiders didn't take last year. looked like an incredible right tackle last year. That is an incredible, like, there are not many teams that you feel like have left and right tackle figured out at above average clip for the next five or six years. With two guys who are under 25.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They're bookends for sure. Exactly. Honestly, the Jets have the deepest running back room, maybe in the entire league. And then you have, I mean, Garrett Wilson with 80 Mitchell.

And now one more Cooper Jr., who another first-round pick out of Indiana, who I love is, I love the way he runs with the ball in his hands. He plays like a grown-ass man, which is one of my favorite traits that a player. And then also the tight end room. This is now like a crazy young tie. You have Mason Taylor, is Jason Taylor's son out of LSU,

your high second rounder last year. And then you took a first round tight end this year. Kenyon Sadiq, the tight end at Oregon, who, are you sitting down? I'm a little afraid for what's going to happen to your blood flow here. Can I read you saying about Kenyon Sadiq? Please do. Please do. All right.

Control yourself. But Kenyon Sadiq, your tight end. We ran the same 40-yard dash as Jonathan Taylor. Kenyon Sadiq had the same broad jump as Des Bryant. His vertical jump at the combine was higher than Vince Carter's at the NBA Combine. He's the same height as as Julio Jones. He's the same weight as LeGarrett Blunt and he is the same top speed in his 40-yard Das

at Jimir Gibbs. Okay. I'll be totally honest with you. I wasn't crazy about this pick. And I don't care about measurables. Those are not, those things are not interesting to me. I'm glad you said that because I feel that way too and I didn't want to be a yucker, but I agree. I'm like, oh, cool.

Why'd you average 40 yards a game? Yeah. I think he makes more sense given the weapons that the team. has. I think if this was, if he were the 16 pick to a team that did not have a top 10 or top 15 wide receiver and did not have a top 10 or top 15 running back, it would be a little bit harder to accept. What I think you can see now is that like if you use him a little bit more like the Hback fashion or a little bit more of a gadget player, that he's going to be an interesting force, but he's not going to be a 90 catch, 1,200 yard kind of tight end. He's not, he's not

that kind of player. Also, he has a little bit of a drop problem, which I think is a little bit under-discussed. I think it was a really bold move. The David Bailey move was a very safe move, and I think they kind of made up for it by picking Cooper, who feels like a very competent, very clear, somewhere between a two and a three. And

I like the formulation of the three of those guys and a couple of other picks that they made. Individually, I think there's kind of question marks about all three of them. I was just talking with a fellow, a friend who's an Eagles fan, and the Eagles selected Mackay Lemon. And I wonder if Will look

back five years from now and say they got a little cute with Kenyon and Sadiq, and they should have just taken McCoy Lemon there and figured out something else at 30. But who knows? It could be really fascinating. I tend to agree. Actually, it's funny. I know I was trying to gash you up with the measurables, but that is actually how I feel deep down too is the tight end. There are so many tight ends that have been super athletic that haven't done a ton. You know what I mean? You look back at, I mean, Noah Fant out of Iowa was an unbelievable athlete. O.J. Howard, who even before his Achilles injuries did very little.

A lot of guys, Tide-end also takes a long time to develop. Even the last year's, there's been some trends of elite guys doing really well. It takes a while to pop. But I agree. I agree with you about the McKay-Lemond thing. But again, I think that speaks to my concern to your point is Woody Johnson seems to have just gone into the offense and said, I don't want to do what Tanner-Rank's doing. The fire Tanneryx-Train three weeks after the season ends, offensive coordinator.

And they're like, I want Frank Reich, two years out of the NFL. So that's really the concern is the snip, snap, you know, Michael Scott, like the emotional toll of what are we doing on offense? And ironically, a perfect example of this is what happens to a guy like Mazi Smith, who was now on the Jets, who is the defensive tackle, the Cowboys. And he got flip-flopped in the Quinn and Williams trade, where he's the failed version of Quinn and Williams. And now Mazzie Smith is there. And he was a crazy athletic defensive tackle at Michigan.

And, you know, he didn't reach his potential. Part of that's always on the player. Part of that's on Dallas. We're like, you're going to be a noseguard. You're going to be a three-tech, which means gain 20 pounds, lose 20 pounds. gain 20 pounds as new defensive coordinators come in and have different visions. Do you know how hard it is to be an NFL player and gain 20 pounds when you're at like 3% body fat? Like it is, they are eating all, like it's a lot of work.

And so that's the concern with all these players. It's not just, oh, you have to learn a new system. It's you have to learn a new language and sculpt your body to a different job. Like it's very hard and it takes a toll. So that is my concern. And also we've gone too far to the Jets without mentioning to your point is not just Mackay Lemon at that pick, but the Jets hired Aaron Glenn, who was a quarterback for the Jets. a cornerback.

The Jets were the first team to go an entire season without an interception on record since the forward pass was invented, which was before World War II. Yeah, it's not good. And they didn't take a cornerback

in the first round. You know what, though? Again, I was concerned about this until they selected DeAngelo Pons. And I genuinely just feel like, I don't know anything about football. Danny, I'm an idiot. I'm just a fan.

I'm just a guy talking to you. Join the club. You know, I'm just a dude. but I watched DeAngelo Pons play a lot last week or last season. He obviously had a very memorable moment in the Oregon game in which he picked off the QB in the first play of the game. He sent Dante Moore back to school. That's why he's not on the Jets. And away from the Jets.

He sent Dante Moore backing. And obviously DeAngelo Pons' comp literally during the draft was Aaron Glenn. And in the same way that Aaron Cooper just kind of plays like a dog, Pons has the same reputation. And so I'm just going in, assuming that DeAngelo Pons, whether he's playing out of the slot or whether he's playing on the edge, like he's going to have four interceptions. Like, I just know it. I agree. I'm such a sucker for small guys who play huge. And I hate big players who play small.

And Pons is such a great player. Like, he's just, the way he carries himself is unbelievable in a football field. I'm not saying he's Honey Badger or anything, but he just pops off the screen. And you would never think he's, you know, I would never. ever have noticed how small he is. Like the listed measurables surprised me when I first discovered them because the way he plays so big and explosive. I love that the Jets took him.

I'm also, whether it works or not, I'm such a sucker for bad teams importing great culture by just picking off national champs. I love that they're just like Omar Cooper, Indiana, De Angel Ponds, Indiana, come on down. I like when they're like, well, we didn't really have a culture, so let's just try to get a bunch of guys who play like grown-ass pros. And I don't think it's a bad strategy because, again,

we don't have to go to NIL and everything about Indiana, but Indiana played like a professional team because they're a professional team. The average age of Indiana starters was 23. The average age of the Green Bay Packers last year was 25. They are professional players. So I like that they brought these guys in. I agree.

I feel like we've been watching the Eagles for five straight years just draft guys from Georgia every year and it seems to be working. Dude, you know that bell curve meme? We always talk about it on the fantasy football show, but it's like the idiot thinks something and then the smart people in the middle just kind of get caught up

and then like the smartest people in the world kind of have the same simple takes as the moron. And they're like, the dumbest thing you could possibly think is, wow, this Georgia team is the best defense I've ever seen. Just take them. And then you go all the way through it. And Howard Roseman is just sitting there and everyone's just like glazing Howie Roseman all the time. And he's like, I don't I'm just going to take half the best defense in college football history. How about that?

Seems like a really good strategy. I'm glad that my team is finally coming around to it. I share some of the same concerns about David Bailey that you cited earlier. And I do think that the defense is a real work in progress. And if you want to say this team is really going to struggle this year, I think it's because they're like, half of a developed defense. And a lot of the free agent signings that they made, especially players along the defensive line,

are very stopgap kind of players because it was such a miserable changeover from the Sala administration to Glenn. And I think Glenn and Coe assumed that they could convert a lot of Sala's... Sala looks for a very specific kind of player. The person who probably suffered the most in the transition was Jamie and Sherwood,

who had just signed a big extension to play linebacker and was... truly terrible last year. He had to have been among the bottom 20 linebackers in the sport. And under Sala, he was a really exciting young player. So I think that they're still, and their linebacker room is very thin at the moment. They have young corners. They have handsy corners who tend to make a lot of mistakes.

Their safety is a position that they have struggled to fill for years. And there's a little bit of a confusion, at least among the fan base right now, where they acquired Minka Fitzpatrick in the offseason. But Minkin Fitzpatrick, in his first interview since being acquired, said, I plan to play mostly out of the slot. And fans were like, no, you're Minka Fitzpatrick, all pro safety. We've been needing a safety, a competent free safety for 10 years.

Why are you playing in the slot? We already have three slot corners. So I think that makes sense. Because Minka, I know what you mean. You do have three slot corners. But I think the thing is it's Minka. You want him to be able to make plays near the line. of scrimmage, attack on screens.

You want him to be able to be a blitzer. You want him to be able to make impactful stuff near the line. He's a very gifted tackler. He's a great force fumble guy. And so I think that's what you need. You need explosive plays on defense too. And it's just easier for him to be impacting stuff around the line of scrimmage. Yeah.

I'm generally concerned that they're going to give up a lot of points. But maybe they'll score a lot of points. Maybe. Well, on that note, and I think this is the way to end it with the jet. because I won't talk about the giants, but to that point, just to hammer home the fact of how bad the Jets and Giants have been. I just, I mean, maybe this is obvious to people, but I just wanted to, like, actually illustrate that it's not hyperbole.

The last 10 years, the last 10 seasons, the Giants and Jets are dead last in the following categories. And when I say that, I don't mean one or the other. I mean, they are both 31st and 32nd in the following categories. Both teams, wins, winning percentage, yards, points, touchdowns, point margin, and they both are dead last in the amount of game time they've spent winning,

and they both are first and second, most amount of game time spent losing. Which is basically every single thing that matters in a football game. They are the worst teams of the last 10 years, starting with points and touchdowns, and that is really the theme. Danny Kelly jokes about it in the old time.

The Jets and Giants think to score, start scoring touchdowns. They are horrible at it. I couldn't agree more. I'm eager to hear your perspective on this as a Giants fan because, again, like your agony is, it's been 10 years, but to my mind, it doesn't feel that way.

And I think maybe even to a slightly more casual NFL fan, you maybe don't realize the things have been as bad for the Giants as they have been over this period of time. And you're at the dawning of a new era. You have a new head coach, you have an exciting young quarterback. You have a lot to look forward to. And yet, I don't know what it's, like,

I don't think Vegas thinks the Giants are going to be that great. Like, how are you feeling? So I'll tell you how I'm feeling right after this break. Giants time. I agree with what you're saying, Sean. I think it's a sneaky secret to some that the Giants have been just as bad as the Jets, if not worse, so for the last 10 years.

I think that the Giants winning that one playoff game with Daniel Jones really hides the stench of it. But, I mean, the Giants have a worse record than, like, I mean, the Jaguars are better now than the Jaguars who had number one picks two years in a row. Like, worse than the Cleveland Browns or the last 10 years. Like the Giants, worse than the Cardinals, the Panthers, some of the worst teams. The Giants have been absolutely abysmal. I guess I don't even know where to begin sometimes like when you're talking about your own team.

You're so inside the bottle. You can't read the label. But I will just say this. I'm both like everyone else so excited about the John Harbaugh hire. I am also so dubious of the fact that everyone unanimously, thinks it's a good idea. It really sets my radar off. And I have to tell you, I will say, as much as I'm happy that John Harbaugh is cleansing the team of some stench, the idea that people are saying the Giants will be this year's Patriots flabbergasts me. And I am not really, I am optimistic

about the Giants' future. I think Jackson starts a good quarterback. I don't think the Giants will be some great team this year, even though they have a lot of talent in places. I'm pretty concerned about this year's team, to be honest. Yeah, I think it's interesting to compare them to the Jets, because I think the Jets have a lot of promise. There's a lot of potential excitement. Whereas I do think that most fans see the Giants as being extremely talented, that there are legitimately good players on the team

who we know can succeed. I would like to hear specifically whether or not you fully, truly, deeply, madly believe Jackson Dart is not only the answer, but is the kind of quarterback who will play 15, 16, 17, 17 games in a season, and lead your team for the next decade to multiple playoff appearances. That depends on the same way.

Jackson Dart, can he play 15, 17 games in the season? It's the same. Jackson Dart is why insurance companies charge a lot for men under 25 to drive a car. He plays like he has absolutely no sense of self-preservation. And I think, frankly, it's why Brian Dable got fired. I know Brian Dable, everyone, you know, they had a lot of blown leads, which also, funnily enough, you know why Ravens fans are not upset to see John Harbaugh go?

A lot of blown league. It's true. But in my mind, Brian Dable deserved to be fired because of the recklessness with which he encouraged Jackson DART to play. And I anyone, I mean, Jackson Darts, just so you understand, he played 12 games last year. He had five concussion checks, like five blue tent checks in 12 games. But to me, what was infuriating is Brian Dable wanted to be seen as a smart guy. And he was actually very emotional. It's like the anti-Dane Campbell.

Dan Campbell wants to be seen as emotional, very level-headed and calm. Dan Campbell is on the sideline. Ryan Daible wanted to be seen as a genius. Absolute hot head on the sideline can't control himself. And I think it's exemplified by the play calling. The two plays that I thought Brian Daible should be fired for. Three, really. 49ers game, not that matters,

but I think it just represents how Jackson Dart was being encouraged to play. Jackson Dart against the 49ers, the Giants were down, I believe it was 17 points with 90 seconds left. And Jackson Dart got crushed, throwing a ball to the end zone. But the other one at the point where I was like Daible can go was the Giants were down 25 points. to the Eagles with three minutes to go. 25 points is a four possession game.

It's a four possession game with three minutes to go. And Jackson Dart was called for quarterback keeper at the goal line and he got crushed by Jeremiah Trotter and he limped off. And I'm like, I don't think there had ever been an example of the team winning in the situation the Giants were in. And Dable's, it's not an option, not a read option, quarterback keeper. Brian, like, it's not a video game.

And all that's to say, was Jackson Dart reckless? Yes. Was Brian Dable encouraging it to save his own job? Absolutely. And so that is John Harbo's job. Keech Jackson Dart, third and three run for it. Third and three down 30 points, slide. Because people make too much of size. Bryce Young or Anthony Richardson, however big you are,

what gets you heard is taking hits. And you just need to not take hits. You need to slide and run out of bounds. And he played baseball, so I think he can. I think his accuracy is incredible. I mean, if you look at, I mean, some of these stats are new. But Jackson Dart had the best on target rate for any quarterback as a rookie since Joe Burrow, like six years ago.

So I'm very out bullish about it. him. I'm very concerned with the Giants past catchers. I'm worried that this is going to be quietly, like, after the dolphins who were in abomination, like the worst past catching group in the NFL, and I'm concerned with this going to do the offense, to be honest. You kind of still didn't really answer

my question. Like, he's talented, which is something we know about the team, but is he the, five years from now, is he the quarterback of the Giants? Is maybe a more pertinent question? I think yes. You can't say it depends. Like, you think he is? I think yes.

I think, yes. I think John Harbo is more likely to disappoint than Jackson Dart. I'll put it that way. I think Jackson Dart's talented. I'm worried about John Harbaugh. I think that Ravens fans were not upset to see John Harba go. And I think that I agree with what you're sitting. The question, I feel like what you're asking is, is Jackson Dark going to let Giants

fans down? I think John Harbaugh is going to let Giants fans down. And Jackson Dart might outlive John Harbaugh. To be clear, I would love nothing more in the world than John Harba would be exactly as good as we all thought he should be. I wanted him to be hired. I wanted Jackson, like, I'm excited that Jackson Dart's the quarterback. I am very concerned that some of things Harbaugh's doing.

I think Harbaugh's plan A was good, which was to hire Todd Monkin as the offensive coordinator who reinvigorated Lamar Jackson as an MVP candidate after Greg Roman and the offensive coordinator for Lamar really let Lamar stagnate. And a lot of the failure for Lamar to play in the playoffs was an inability for the Ravens to react to modern blitz packages because Greg Roman doesn't have modern passing game.

The Giants were going to hire Todd Monkin as their coordinator. You know who they got instead? because the Browns-powered Monkman is a quarter. Now they have Greg Roman on the Giants' offensive staff. And they have Matt Nagy, also on the Giants' offensive staff. Matt Nagy is Andy Reid's longtime guy who was cast aside by Andy Reid because it was not working. Greg Roman has worked for John or Jim Harbaugh for like 20 years. And Jim Harbaugh had to let him go because he wasn't working for Herbert.

That is two guys, longtime collaborators were like, you know what? It's best to go our separate ways. And they're both on the giant staff. These guys are both years and years behind the modern NFL. fell. I'm really concerned about the Giants. Really concerned because none of all these guys can't really, receivers and tight ends can get open, but they can't get, they can't block and everything is going toward your pass,

your receivers being able to block. And the Giants have nobody. So if Malik neighbors, again, we're bearing the lead, Malik neighbors coming off an ACL and meniscus tear is very behind schedule. He was supposed to be ready for July. Now he might not be ready for September. And if he can't play or is not 100%. The Giants pass the game, like straight up sucks. Who else is in the room? turn about their offense. Tell who else is it.

Who are the pass catchers? I am so glad you asked. So let's just say Malik Neighbors is not available for week one. The players that Giants are going to look at starting is going to be Darius Slayton, who has been, the team has been trying to get rid of for seven of the last eight years, basically.

And then it's Calvin Austin, who was exiled to Siberia by Aaron Rogers last year. Darno Mooney, who could not stay in the Falcons lineup for health and other reasons. Malachi Fields, who is a rookie at a Notre Dame, and frankly like a Matt Collins blocking type. And Jujew Smith-Schuster, who, as Greg says, is the oldest 29-year-old man on Earth.

Yeah. He's been passed around a bit, Juju. And then the tight ends are guys who can't, like Isaiah likely, who they brought him for Baltimore, is a great receiver, but he's not a blocker. and it's like Calvin Austin's like, he cannot block. Like Darius Slaten, I don't think he's the greatest blocker.

Darnel Mooney cannot block. Their tight ends can't block. And I'm like, this is not a modern game. This is like what was winning five or six years ago. And then they have, I mean, they went ahead and signed Patrick Ricard, like the fullback from the Ravens days four years ago. I don't know.

This is just a bunch of mishmash pieces. I don't see how they work in a modern offense. I'm concerned about these guys' ability to handle like Vic Fangio and the Eagles. I don't really see how they're going to win. It reminds me a little bit of what James Gunn's trying to do with the DC universe for films. It's like, you know, it worked for Marvel 10 years ago. It was really effective. Exactly.

Let's try to do it again. Then you get supergirl. It's exactly what I feel with the DC universe. And it's like, everyone's kind of done with this, man. it's actually been done for a few years. I didn't even notice. I know. I feel like the bright side, Danny, is the one of the key things that it seems like

Harbaugh was able to do was that he was able to coach Lamar Jackson to a place where he would protect himself because he could have been, if coached differently, a really reckless player who, you know, experience a lot of concussions and leg injuries and especially given his talents athletically, he's turned into such an incredible force in terms of accuracy, in terms of decision-making. And it does seem like that's maybe the final piece of the puzzle for Dart in terms of protecting his body, not getting injured, and making good decisions. So you've got that. Who is the... You lost a very competent wide receiver to free agency. Who did you lose? So Wando-Robinson went Brian Dable to Tennessee. So the funny thing, it's a good thing to

mention in this Giants Jets episode is that the New York guys with the tail between their legs got exile to Tennessee. So Robert Sala takes the Titans head coach job and hires Brian Dable to rehabilitate himself as the offensive coordinator. And they're just like getting the gang back together. And Brian Dable brings in Wando Robinson. They brought in Cordell Flot, like a bunch of

cornerback, a bunch of players in the Giants. And Robert Sala goes straight up trades to Vondre Swet, who is not a Sala-esque player from the Titans to the Jets. He gets back Germain Johnson. He brings back all these players. And so they just kind of do a New York fired coaches reunion. John Franklin Myers is back in Tennessee as well. It's an

It's a interesting thing, and it's very similar to what you're describing this, this concern with the Giants right now. And I've heard you talk about this over the years, but, you know, professional teams are not purely, they're not consulting businesses in which there's meant to bring an objective point of view to every experience to maximize potential for every product. They're people businesses. They're about relationships.

They're about people who've known each other and worked together and cross paths. They went to college together. They were assistants together. They rose through the ranks together. or players who they worked with, who they want to bring back, who know their system, who know how to implement their system.

And so when you begin to see the sport that way, you understand that that actually explains often the rise and fall of certain strategies. And it's funny that we're going to have three different versions of New York football this year with the Titans. And the Jets opened their season against the Titans, which is going to be a fascinating. Which is fascinating.

Maybe revenge game. You know, we haven't, I barely mentioned Robert Sal. I'm not even sure if Robert Sala got a raw deal. I think he was fired in an untoward way, but he was not a good head coach. Can I tell you something? I think I'm the last person left. I think Sala was doing great job for the Jets.

And the narrative around, I think it's insane. Again, Robert Sala is a defensive coach who, as the plan outlined by the GM, by Sala, by the owner Woody Johnson, they were like, well, Aaron Rogers and Nate Hackett get to just run the offense, and Sala's going to be a head coach defensive guy. Well, who delivered on their end of the bargain?

Like he was fired after a Vikings London game, which Eric Manjini predicted what happened because Woody Johnson would be with his posh British friends as ambassador and be embarrassed and fire him and freak out. Robert Soles' defenses had given up three touchdowns in the previous three games. And then he was fired. Aaron Rogers threw a pick six in the game. And then the defensive head coach gets fired

in a game where the defense gave up one touchdown and Aaron Rogers threw a pick six and the defensive coach gets fired. The fact that Aaron Rogers, like any other coach, if Aaron Rogers, who insists there's no viable backup, gets terraces Achilles, four snaps into the season. And then the Jets still won like seven games, even though I believe Robert Sala was not allowed to pursue a better backup quarterback.

And they still won seven games. That is, I don't know how many other people could have won seven games with that fucking team. Everywhere he goes, everyone plays better under Sala. The Niners, I don't know. Everywhere he goes, everyone maximized the end of her. That's a job. Defensively, that's true.

I think you can go. back two steps. If you go back one further step back, a year and a half prior to that experience that you're describing, Mike Lafleur was fired as the offensive coordinator in a similar fashion of the way that Tanner Engstrom was fired for the failures of Zach Wilson. And Michael Flur is now about to be the head coach, the Arizona Cardinals. We'll see how that goes. But he was, he's Matt Fleur's brother. He's in the McVeigh tree. He's a super gifted offensive mind. He's been an assistant coach for the Rams for the last three years. And the Fleur is solid as close as it gets. When Sala was fired, he lived in Matt Lefleur's house the rest of the year.

And so moving on from Lafleur at that time, I think led the Jets down a very dark path of not really knowing how to run an organization offensively. And Sala just doesn't do that. So you can give him credit for the things you're giving him credit for. He's a terrific defensive head coach. But that's not your whole job. And, you know, it's an interesting thing. Like, I think Harbaugh is kind of the opposite in terms of how we narrativeize what the role of a coach is. I believe Harbaugh's background as a special team's head coach.

that was his job before he was a head coach. And he is a, you know, he's a CEO type. He is a sort of like see all pieces of the puzzle and understand how they fit together, at least allegedly. That's how he's kind of narrativized as a coach. And there was this expectation with Aaron Glenn that he was going to be a head coach in that model.

And now he's being asked to do the thing that Robert Sala was doing, which was coaching the defense primarily and hoping that another grown-up will be able to handle the offense. Now it's not Aaron Rogers and Nate Hackett, two people who I would not describe as grownups. It is Frank Reich, who is a grown-up. Two grown-up. Who is it?

Who's the DC for the Giants this season? So the defensive coordinator, so it's an interesting thing. So the Giants hired, it's a really, so he actually, it's actually part of the whole swap. It's Denard Wilson, who was, funnily enough, in Tennessee, which is just part of this weird incestual, like Robert Salas head coach, Dables the offensive coordinator, and then the Giants hired the defensive coordinator, DeNard Wilson. and I think he's quite promising. I really like the system.

Again, it's more modern. I like that it's the exact opposite of, I think, what's happening to the Giants on the offensive side of the ball. I think it's skating to where the puck is heading is a lot of what DeNard Wilson's going to be able to do. I think the Giants edge rusher group under DeNard Wilson is like the best that's been since they were winning Super Bowls.

I'm still a little upset the trader Dexter Lawrence. But I'm excited about what the Giants are going to do at defense. I'm excited to see what goes. Arval Reese was an absolute coup at the fifth pick. I'm curious that you feel about Bailey versus Arville Reese. I think that was like I was slacked you out stunned to get Arville Reese. I think frankly, the other teams happened to just be a little scared of taking him. But I'm over the moon about Arville Reese getting to play for Dernard Wilson.

I think it's going to be fantastic. I think it's disappointing that the two times the Jets had the number two overall pick this decade. the more or less consensus choices, forget about who they actually selected, but the consensus choices were the players that they selected, and they were evidently flawed players who people didn't feel good about as number two picks, and David Bailey and Zach Wilson. That's, and you know, you can go back and look through the years of the times in which they had had top five picks, and there have been some that have been good and some that have been bad.

Mark Sanchez comes to mind, Sam Darnall comes to mind, Quinn and Williams comes to mind. And there have been a lot of interesting, you know, the team has been so bad for so long that they're frequently picking at the top of the draft. And I don't ever feel like we get Miles Garrett. You know, there's something like crazy making about never landing that like shore fire Aaron Donald style Hall of Fame.

Like, well, this guy is just the dude. And you've got the number two or number three or number five pick and you get to get the dude. And how close you come sometimes where it's, you know, the famous Jets game at the, Greg, oh no, Greg Williams, where you ended up, you beat the Rams as 18 point underdogs or whatever

and played your way out of Trevor Lawrence. And no, it is infuriating when you get a high pick. That's how I felt about the Giants at five. Ironically, I was like, oh, they weren't going to delete player. And then I think the best player in the whole draft falls to them. So we'll see if he becomes that guy. I think he is, I'm happy he's a linebacker. I don't know how much niche you want to get here,

but Arville Reese, there's a whole thing, is he now drusher, is an inside linebacker, or outside linebacker. I'm like, he's both. He's an in-in-out. He's trade as an inside linebacker. and I think your best players being in the center of the field is good. I think sometimes you overthink the positional thing.

He's a train line. I mean, there's this guy Ali Connolly who does a great substack called the read optional, which unfortunately to projections, I think it's the best name substack ever. It's read optional for a football substack. But he was trained in the NFL as a linebacker scout. And Ali Connolly gave out the highest grade he's ever given, the only grade to a linebacker he's ever given out scouting-wise, higher than Arville Reese was Luke Keeley.

It's the only player ever with a higher grade. And that made me feel a little less crazy because I think Arvill Reese is more or less like a perfect linebacking prospect, who happens to be like in a crazy ceiling pass rusher. But the idea, it's not that different than basketball. It's like, I want someone who can do a little bit of everything. You know what I mean?

And I'm so excited to have him. But, you know, I'm a little bummed about the Dexter Lawrence thing. It's like, oh, top 10 pick is cool. And then it's like, well, they traded him for Francis Maui, Noah who is a herniated disc and is going to play right guard. I'm like, well, I kind of want Dexter Lawrence then, but I'm not, you know, that's unpopular. Yeah, that makes sense. It's the same question that I think Jets fans could ask themselves about whether or not you'd

rather have Sauce Gardner over Kenyon Sadiq. I mean, that's really, you know, obviously you'd have to pay Soss Gardner for the next four seasons if you wanted to do that. But that's effectively, they traded him for that and for, you know, let's just spitball. Are the Colts going to win four games? Are they going to win 11 games? because that's also, like, this is, the jet season really hinges on the futures of the Colts and the Cowboys this year as much as it does the players on their team. This is a good offshoot of a Giants Jet Show to have a Daniel Jones has the fate of the Jets pick.

I got to tell you, I am very, I am very bearish. Like in the bad way on the Colts this season. I have never since I've been covering, I think this is actually my 10th season covering the NFL for the ringer or something like that. I don't think I've ever seen a team more aggressively chase the first 10 weeks of a season. I think it's pathetic, to be honest to you. It's like I've never, like just act like you've been there before. They were really good for 10 weeks. And then they're like, oh, well, then the injuries happen.

I'm like, well, you mortgaged your future for a cornerback who immediately straightened his calf in sauce gardener. But I'm like, oh, well, Daniel Jones got hurt. I'm like, yeah. Daniel Jones has one healthy season in eight years. That's what happens. He has a neck injury. he's had an ACL. He's had like literally Daniel Jones had one healthy season for the Giants ever.

And the idea that the Colts with a year to prepare for what they were doing, Shane Steikins done an amazing job as a Colts play caller and everything. They have good, you know, the Colts have good offensive infrastructure, even if they lost Michael Pittman. But the idea that Daniel Jones often a killer's recovery, as frankly probably the least mobile will have ever seen Daniel Jones, is going to be as impactful, I think is a crazy bet. And I think the Texans are a Super Bowl caliber team.

just on the roller coaster with C.J. Straub, but that's the best defense in the entire AFC. I think Jaguars can get better or not worse. I don't think the culture are going to compete in that division at all. I think the culture is a seven-win team or worse. I think the Colts could deliver you a five win. I think it's more likely the Jets get a top five pick from the Colts or top six than it is the Colts to make the division around at the playoffs.

It's music to my ears, honestly. From afar, it does feel like there was so much exuberance around the first half of the season of the team last year in the aftermath of the owner's passing and the daughter taking over and she was on the sidelines. And, you know, that is, that can be intoxicating. But, you know, Bill Simmons has talked about this many years, the sort of new owner syndrome.

And even though it's in the family that she's making a lot of decisions that seem to be oriented around bringing back Alec Pierce at an insane number, but then you can't bring back Michael Pittman. And then all of a sudden, like, do you even really have the same team that you had last year? And will your, you know, horse running back also be running for 1,500 yards again? So, like, yeah, in addition to watching Jets games with some interest, I'll be also watching a lot of Colts games.

And, you know, I'm not, I'm not the kind of person that would root for like a Dak Prescott injury, but the Cowboys are also a Dak Prescott injury away from potentially having a calamitous season. So, like, it's an interesting way to be a fan where you don't really have any faith in where your team is going in any given season, but there are all these tributaries of interest

that you can track over time. It's a little bit like having a real-life fantasy team right now. I know what you mean. And also, that's the thing. is you don't have to get the first pick. The reality is just having free dart throws and what will be a very talented draft. And here's the thing.

I do think when, and it's always overrated of like, oh, how talented is the draft? And everyone's like, you're listing a lot of names on quarterbacks next year, but no one actually knows if any of them. No one wants to point to the one quarterback.

That's great. It's like, well, there's six guys. Quarterback aside, though, it's a very deep draft in a lot of spots. And I will say this, as hard as it is to point to a specific player and tell you their future, I do think in the NFL draft,

all sports, the intelligentsia, when they're like it's a deep draft at a position. For the most part, people are correct. No one's really sure if Darren Peterson or Aegee DeBanza or Cambuzer would be amazing. But largely speaking, it will be a good draft in the NBA this year because people usually are right about the hit rates on the overall class. I do think just having three dart throws next year, I mean, Aaron Donald was like the 14th pick in the draft or something.

You know what I mean? JJ Watt, T.J. Watt went in the late 20s. Like just being able to throw darts in it in a deep draft is really smart. I love what the Jets have done and set themselves up. And frankly, I think the Jets will have a new head coach. And I think the entire fate of the organization is going to hinge on. I think Aaron Glenn will get fired at the end of this year. I think the Jets will have a top 10 pick. They might have another one.

And then wherever the Cowboys finish, I think the Cowboys win the division. But then I think you'll have a new head coach. And whoever that head coaches, I think will completely decide the future of the team. And it'll be fascinating to see what they do. Okay. I want to get two predictions from you. One, I want to know what you think the Giants will finish at at the end of the season. And two, I want your prediction for who will be the Jets head

coach in 2027, 2028. Wow. To take those backward, you know, it's funny, if the Chargers didn't hire, or sorry,

if the Ravens didn't hire Jesse Minter, I would have said Jesse Minter. I would say that the Jets. I can't, I can't do another first time defensive head coach. I can't do that.

Jesse Minter seems you don't want Chris Chula? No. I wonder if Chrisula ula would have turned out the Jets. Because you got to remember, they're going to have,

this is going to be a very young offense with a rookie quarterback. I can well, let me, let me tell you, if the Titans, shockingly with nine games and they really missed the playoffs

and Cam Ward looks amazing, would you hire Brian Dable? I don't know that Woody Johnson wants the sloppy seconds of the Giants. It's the same reason the Giants and Jets wouldn't trade for the Darnold year.

I was always amazed that the Giants never took the same Donald package. Like the Colts moved down three picks and got three second rounders. I'm like, what did the Giants do that? But they won't work together. I agree with you on that.

I think basically, I do think the gentlemen, be in position to get a quarterback. I think an interesting wrinkle in the NFL right now is because there's so many new play callers and they're cycling through offensive coordinators, coaches are getting fired. What you're ending up with is a lot of play calling former head coaches, probably more than there's been in the past.

You have a lot of the coaches are calling plays offensive defense more than ever. And there's kind of hiring a former head coach to handle the other side of the ball. He's Ben Johnson calls plays. Does run game installations. But Dennis Allen, who was a somewhat hated coach in the Saints, he does defense. That models everywhere. Like Robert Solomon wants to run the defense.

Cool. Brian Dable, he'll just run the offense like a head coach. And so I think that will probably be the answer is it's you will probably have two head coaches on staff. One was a head coach and your offensive coordinator is a head coach. And I think the idea being, well, we kind of ran out of offensive minds to be the head coach. So we'll hire a defensive one and you have a former head coach try to get a second job. And the idea is, well, what if he leaves and the quarterback is so good that the guy leaves? And I think the answer is that's a great problem. Like if you're in Tennessee and Cam Ward plays so well this year that Brian Dable leaves, what a great problem to have.

And I think that is probably the most likely answer for the Jets is the defensive minds are more available because frankly the NFL over-indexed on offensive coaches. We're running out of guys. Like the defensive guys adapting to them are the guys at the forefront of the league. And like you'll probably have to settle for that. I can't do that again. 25 years. You'll see.

It's like the one time I don't know if I can accept that way Okay, how do you think the Giants are going to do? I think You know, happiness is just expectations minus reality I think it depends on expectations. If people think they're going to be the Patriots from last year again, no chance.

Like the Patriots, an 80 to one Super Bowl favor to rode the easiest schedule ever to the Super Bowl, no fucking chance. I think the Giants would be incredibly fortunate to make the playoffs, and that would be really cool. And it would require the Eagles imploding or Dallas to really underperform

and it's possible. But the Giants have a... The funny thing about the Patriots comparison, Patriots schedule was the easiest in the NFL. The Giants have a hard schedule. The Giants play a lot of incredible teams this year. So I think they'll actually be great, really good on defense.

I think the pass rush is going to be unbelievable and revelatory to have Abdul Carter, Brian Burns, Arvill Reese. I think it's the most athletic front seven in the whole league. I think the offense will be hard to watch. I don't think the league neighbors is 100%.

And you're going to have games out there where it's Calvin Austin and like Dary Slayton and Malachi fields with Isaiah likely trying to block. And I think it's going to look at how, you know how flaccid the chiefs looked at times Mahomes the last few years? Like how not fun it's been to watch Passion Mom's play.

Imagine that was Jackson Dart. And I think it'll look a lot like that, especially with Cam Scadabo coming off an ankle fracture. Like no one's going to look 100%. And I think it'll be hard to watch on offense. It'll be a little struggle and the defense will be amazing. But I think long term,

I like that Harbaugh ripped out a lot of the favoriteism and nepotism, ownership had been handing out jobs. So yeah, the last thing I wanted to ask before we get out of here, Sean, and this is maybe a little corny. Maybe we cut this. But we haven't talked to this yet,

and I want to ask you, going back to the beginning with watching The Knicks, you had a cool story about what it was like to watch the Knicks championship with your daughter. And I wanted to ask you about fandom and the difference of handing, how you thought about handing down fandom before the next title and like how it feels to watch

because, you know, Obviously, I feel like even six months ago, you felt like Jets was a curse, a pox upon your house, handed to you unfairly. And I'm curious how it feels to you now to be, like, a father and passing down sports fandom to your kids. And I'm just curious how you feel with that. And like, now that the Knicks have won and hope springs eternal. It's complicated for a variety of reasons. One, I live in Los Angeles. I don't live in New York.

Growing up in New York, even though I was handed these bum teams, I was at Chase Stadium. So anywhere from five to 30 times a season, from the ages of five to 15. And then as an adult, when I was living in New York and working, I had season tickets. So I was just at Mets games all the time. And it was like, it was the same way that you would be handed Catholicism. You know, or it was like, do with this what you will, but this is what you got. And you have to come to a real, like, adult age to realize that you can reject this. And so, but in Los Angeles, we're not going to,

We're not going to church every Sunday, and we're certainly not going to Shea Stadium anymore. And so my daughter's going to have some more free will in the decision making. But watching the Knicks together and watching her watch Brunson, that's when something in the amygdala forms. Like something took hold there. And I have the exact same t-shirt that you're wearing right now, and so does my daughter. So we all have, if you root for the Knicks, you have to buy that t-shirt. It's a law.

And so because, like, you start getting gear and you start building relationships to players and you start asking, when does the season start again? These are things that, like, my daughter didn't care about six months ago. And she's interested in this. MBA is a done deal. This is a Knicks fan. And I didn't really make that happen. Like, the Knicks made that happen.

That was the power of this group of guys and how fun the last three months were for us as fans. Football is different because football feels more like a video game. kids and kids respond, I have found to symbology and logo and those ideas. So my daughter likes watching the lions. She doesn't know why she likes watching the lions other than she likes lions. And so she's like, are the lions on on Sunday when I'm watching football? And I'm like, yeah, but we're watching the Jets. And she's like, can you put it on the two box? Like she already knows that we can

like split the boxes. She's fucking five. Because she wants to watch Lens. She doesn't know who Jemir Gibbs is. She doesn't really understand that Dan Campbell has that meditative component on the sideline that you described earlier in the episode. But she wants to watch the lines. Am I going to be able to get her off that? Sure, maybe if Kenyon Sadiq is the most exciting player in the NFL. But if not, that's something that is like a little bit out of my control. I have the Mets and the Mets is, she is very aware of the team because there's so many games, she has a lot of forced exposure to watching the team. That franchise is doing things that I think are like unimaginable.

their inability to be successful over time, given the resources that they have, is absurd. And it is humbling. It is crazy, too, because you're like, well, the richest and, I don't know about smartest, but yeah, most,

I mean, obviously, like Steve Cohen has been successful in, like, more or less everything you ever tried in finance. And it's funny to watch someone like that actually willing to put their money where their mouth is and put every conceivable dollar and asset into it. And it just,

it's almost worse. It's hard to fail in the way that they're failing. I mean, this is not a baseball podcast, but I'm trying to figure out Boba Chet as a human. And like, oh my God. How did this happen? Where he just like immediately.

He just immediately became one of a bottom 50 player in Major League Baseball the minute he put on a Mets uniform after being a World Series hero. So anyway, before I digress too hard, the point is that I think you can and should build, if you're a sports fan, build relationships with your children through sports. If they show an interest in it. My daughter shows an interest in sports. Montessori school. Yeah, exactly.

forcing fandom onto your kids is dangerous. It's very similar to forcing Star Wars fandom or Narnia fandom. If you're into any kind of cultural thing, there's downsides. There's heartbreak if they don't show an affinity for the thing that you care about. On the other hand,

independence is something that you want to encourage your child to have. And so when my daughter, whatever, a year and a half ago, was like, I'm a lion's fan. I was like, all right, cool. Well, like, let's try to hold on to that. Show me how much that actually means to you. And there's a bit of learning that comes with that. And when the Lions missed the playoffs this past season,

I was like, you know what happened to the Lions, right? They failed. This is character building. Also, when you're like, you share your kids things that you care about and they don't care and it hurts you, I was picturing you showing like Paul Thomas Anderson, like there will be blood or out of some movie. But that's going to happen.

And if she says, no, I'll say great. Then you have your taste. Then you have the things that you care about that matter to you. Like I think that's an essential component to being a parent. is exposing your child to things that you feel are valuable. But if they don't cotton to them, don't continue to push it. Let it go. And if I have to let them let's go, that's probably a good idea.

But like the Catholicism thing, then it comes back around. You see the Knicks and you're like, wow, faith, community. Is this rewarding? Can I be honest with you? I'm also in my 40s having thoughts about faith and religion. And I'm like, is this something that I actually am interested in as I get to this phase of my life? So that's maybe something that can happen for her when it comes to the Jets. You know, she's got to take time away.

she's got to spend time with Dan Campbell. She'll eventually return when she's in her 40s, and I'll be long dead. Well, there we go. That'll be the title of the episode. The Knicks made Sean believe in God can the Jets and Giants undo that. There we go.

Sean, thank you so much for doing this to me. This was a ton of fun. I appreciate it. Thank you for doing it. I'm really glad we got to catch up. Me too, Danny. You're an elite host. Did you know that?

You're one of the most elite hosts. I Yeah No Come on Pump yourself up a little bit You got a big season Coming up

You know I actually pretty Careful because I'll I'll say something nice and sappy But that means a lot Because I remember the first time You edited a story I wrote I was fucking terrified

So that actually I remember the days When I was still bouncing you On my knee Like my daughter You know And look at you You're all growns up

I'm proud of you Danny For the best part We'll see Yeah But yeah Sean Thank you for doing This was fun Thank you to Chris

Thank you to Regina And thank you to Sheel for taking a vacation for once. And for the record, I think, Sheila, you should keep the beard. I don't care what your family says. Wow.

There's a beard? I didn't even know there was a beard. Yeah, it's a beard. You got to go to Instagram. Yeah, follow Shield on Instagram. It's a playoff beard. And I think the harder his family pushes him to shave it, the more he's going to keep it.

I know that feeling. That's great. Well, thank you, Danny. All right. Thank you, everyone. Check out the projections, which is an awesome substack. Sean just started.

It's fantastic. Check out the big picture. And then I'm on the Ring of Fantasy Football Show. and listen to Sheel on The Ringer & Infel show. He's back from vacation. So thank you everyone for listening. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming.

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