The Ringer NFL Show - CeeDee Lamb’s Big Deal and NFL Takes We’re Afraid to Say Out Loud

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Sheil and Nora start the pod by reacting to CeeDee Lamb's historic new contract with the Dallas Cowboys. They then go deep inside their journalistic vaults to share, debate, and analyze their hottest not-so-secret takes on some of the most interesting NFL teams, players, and topics heading into the 2024 season. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Nora Princiotti Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sure, the weather is getting warmer and you're probably planning your next vacation with your family. But what better way to avoid your family on that vacation than listening to three dudes argue about quarterback tears? If you can trust a wide receiver over 30 years old, and if Jim Harbaugh still thinks chickens are nervous birds. Join me, Craig Horlebeck, along with Danny Hyfitz and Danny Kelly every week on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. It's Shield Capadia from the Ringer NFL show. A little cold open. I love when this happens. We just finished an entire fun episode that we will get to.

to in a second here. The minute it's over, you know what? We see CD Lamb has agreed to a four-year, $136 million deal according to ESPN's Adam Schaftor. I'm here with my friend Nora Princiotti. We thought, you know what? We'll do a quick thing off the top here and talk about CD Lam. So, Nora, you literally just saw this like 60 seconds ago. Initial reaction to CD Lamb, that deal getting done for the Cowboys. Look, we'll have to wait for the, specifics of how it's structured and everything. On the face of it, I think it seems like, you know, good for Citi. He absolutely deserves this deal. It seems like a very healthy receiver deal. He's coming in just behind Justin Jefferson. And good for him. I mean, this is the obvious move.

He's too important to their team. They need him. It seems like the Cowboys are in a position where they might be bleeding some talent this coming offseason. Off seasons to come. We've talked about some of the challenges and some of the mismanagement of that roster, they needed to not mess this up. And this looks like the type of deal that, of course, it makes sense for them. You want to keep a player like that around. He's so important to them. But C.D. Lamb, you know, he's played himself into some leverage, and it seems like he was able to extract that with a pretty solid deal here.

Yeah, I mean, my big question is, what took so long? I guess it doesn't matter because, you know, I don't know that C.D. Lam needs a bunch of practice reps, but it's just like this comes in just under Justin Jefferson. So he's tied for the second highest paid non-quarterback in the NFL. And it just seems like unless Cidi Lamb was asking for more than this, which I think is probably not true. I think it's more likely that the Cowboys were trying to get him to take less than this. It's just like he's been, I think, the second most yards in the NFL, the last two years behind only Tyreek Hill. He's young. He's in his prime. He's coming off a monster season. You have nothing else at why.

receiver. It just, I go back to I don't understand how the Cowboys do business. Now, again, it's not that big of a deal. It gets done before the season starts, $34 million per year. It's more than AJ Brown. AJ Brown got $32 million per year earlier this offseason. But that's a good sort of, like if they would have offered this or if they would have offered 32 back in March, CD Lamb probably, speculation, but he probably takes it. So again, it goes to their thing of they wait till the last minute on all this stuff. It only gets more. expensive. And I know it's only $2 million per year, but hey, that's what? That could be a rotational offensive lineman or something that you need. So you know how NFL teams are with the

salary cap and with money. So that's the big thing there with Ciddy Lamb. And now we see, I guess, the clock ticks on Dak Prescott. Is Dak Prescott actually going to go into week one without a new deal? Or are we going to look up one day, scroll through our feeds? and we're going to see, oh, they also are paying Dack Prescott like $58 million per year, and that gets done also. I guess that's the next thing we'll see about. Well, and the moral of the story is that tweeting, making fun of Jerry Jones on Twitter is a way to get the contract you want. Yeah, that's right. Good job by CD Lin. You had to hold out. You had to hold in,

and now you have the social media mockery. You know, that's also a good move there. Perfect storm. Perfect storm. So there you go. CD Lamb gets his money. He is back in the fold for the Dallas Cowboys. All right, that's the CD-Land-Brake news. Now we will bring you the rest of our very fun show. To the Ringer NFL show, Shield Kapati here with Nora Princiani. We've got a fun show today. We're doing takes that we're afraid to say out loud.

So these are things that maybe we sort of think, thoughts we kind of have. Now, we would never reveal these for public consumption on the internet, on a pod. This is just two friends talking, you know, ideas, brainstorming about the NFL season. So that's the idea of today's show, Nora, how are we feeling about it? We're just chichatin. It's just two pals having a chat. It's August. No one's listening, right?

This isn't going anywhere. No one's ever going to know that we said these things. So we're going to let the takes fly. That's right. It's like when someone in the NFL wants to go off the record and they'll say something like, this is just you and me talking here, but, you know, player so and so,

this was happening with him last year. And you're like, okay, all right. Yeah, I got you. Just me and you talking. That's what it is. I'm going to approach this entire podcast

with the energy of an anonymous scout during the pre-draft process. Oh, what's better. That's what I will be bringing to this show. Just like a total disregard for consequences in reality and a total embrace of the content.

machine. There you go. I love it. I wish you would have told me that like three hour. It totally shapes how I would be thinking about this. All right. So we've got three each. Three takes can be about anything preseason. What's going to happen this season? Big picture thoughts. Whatever we want. We put no guardrails on it that it's got to fit in this category. Nora, start us off. What do you got? What's your first take between just you and me would never say it out loud? What do you got? Okay, so here's one that I really actually am grateful to be able to get this one off my chest because I've been thinking it for a while and I haven't wanted to say it frankly because it bums me out a little bit because I don't want it to be true. But from the heart, I got to say, I'm feeling like Gerard Mayo is just like totally in over his head into England. And I don't like it because I really like the guy. And from everything I've ever heard, he's just like he's a good dude. He's a good personality. He's someone you want to bet on, someone you want to root for. but I have had this sort of sinking feeling a little bit that the Patriots made a mistake in not trying to turn the page a little bit more from the Belichick era when they let him go and revamped the top of their organization this off season. And part of that is in choosing Mayo, you know, someone who played for Belichick came up in that era and obviously worked for him on the defensive side of the ball and the coaching.

stuff already. And part of it is also in, you know, the presence of other people like Elliot Wolf, who are Belichick guys in the personnel department and just the amount of continuity that they ended up stressing, just made me think, one, you know, I think there were some problems with the Belichick era that maybe that doesn't mitigate. And two, just it gives you a lot to live up to, right? Like a totally clean start gets out from under the shadow in a way that, no, we're going to try to do the Belichick style in a few different ways. But without the... the man, I think just is tough. And I've had a couple reasons to think about that this offseason, this preseason and training camp. You and I talked about one where it felt like Matthew

Judon was sort of testing the new teacher a little bit. And I actually thought Mayo ended up handling that well. But we're in this situation now where it seems like two things have been true there. One, Drake May has been the better quarterback between himself and Jacoby Broussat. in preseason and training camp, at least for the last few weeks. He has outplayed Brissette. The second thing that has become apparent is that the New England offensive line

is abysmally bad, like is problematically bad and is going to be a major factor in how you make that quarterback decision. And so here's where it's me, it's leaving me a little bit like, oh gosh, I don't know if Trads got his finger on the polls of how to figure this out,

is because he's just telling everybody everything about how this is working out. He comes out after, you know, they have the preseason game against the commanders, and it's bad. The offensive line's really bad. But May looks better than Brissette. Brissette leaves after a series. He bangs up his shoulder, so he didn't get a lot of playing time. But Mayo comes out and says,

Drake May is the second best quarterback on the roster. Then the next morning, he goes in the radio and says, Drake has outplayed Jacoby in camp and in the preseason. And it's not even the flip-flop that freaks me out. It's actually just like I feel like I'm denying my journalistic principles here. But like, dude, like stop talking. Because this is getting messy in a way where you're going to have a problem with the locker room. Because if the locker room is seeing with their own eyes that Drake May is in a better,

position to help them win right now than Jacoby Reset is, particularly because he's got a little bit of mobility that can help you mitigate some of the issues with the line, then you're going to have to play him. Maybe not in week one, but sooner or later, you are going to have a bigger problem on your hands. But I think they still have some desire there to hold back from doing that just because they think, you know, May is this really important asset. They don't want to put him out there behind this line where he could get hurt or he could just really struggle. But I just, I wonder, it's made me nervous because I can hear the coach talking himself into a corner and I don't think he's doing it on purpose. And it's, it's just like put a little pit in

my stomach and it feels really true right now. What do you think? Yeah, I think it's well said with the quarterback thing. You know, you and I, we want players, coaches, GMs, tell the truth. Let us know what's actually happening. And that remains true from a team content perspective. Hey, we get to talk about Gerard Mayo today. This is suddenly turned into a very interesting situation in New England. But there's a very simple way you could have handled this. You know, you don't say that, that Drake May has outplayed Jacoby Bressett.

You say, May's doing some nice things. He's really improving. Berset's a veteran. We know what we've got with him. We're going to take our time, make a decision, let the team know. Because of what you said, if the locker room is like, it's so. so obvious that one guy's playing better than the other guy, why isn't he playing and you're playing the other guy? That never rubs anybody the right way. I mean, you and I can look at it and say,

oh, this season doesn't matter and it's a rebuild. If you're a player in that locker room and they've got some veterans and it's like the lifespan of an NFL player, how many seasons do you actually get and you go into a season knowing the organization's kind of wasting it? I mean, are you incentivized? Are you motivated to do everything you can to help that team win? That can certainly become a problem. But it very well could be that internally, you say, we can't put Drake May out there in week one with this offensive. I mean, it legitimately, I've become a believer in sort of this weak link theory with the offensive line, which is like, you just, it doesn't have to be a bunch of all pros. You just can't have that one person or those two people that defenses are like, we're

going to kill this guy this week. Like the whole game plan is about confusing this guy, getting our best pass rushes against this guy, setting up our blitzes against this guy. And they have like multiple, you could say both tackles are that for the Patriots. And so you always worry about a young quarterback developing bad habits when the offensive line is bad. And so, yeah, as we record this, we don't know who the Patriots are going to name as their starter. I think Mayo said that he wants to let the team know.

But yeah, the timeline's been a little weird. It seemed like they were all on message really until that radio interview, doesn't it? Like you mentioned it. He said one thing after the game, just preparing for the pod. I was looking up the Patriots writers and Tom Curran had a tweet from August 22nd, four days ago. And it's a video with the headline, Alex Van Pelt, their offensive coordinator, explains why Jacoby Brissette remains ahead of the surging Drake May. Like, everyone was on message there.

Now all of a sudden it's flipped. And I don't want to say a mess. I mean, these things can be controlled, but it's sort of a situation that didn't need to be this way. Well, but that's the other factor, right? Is because Brissette is very clearly, you know, if they all like him, he's been, he's been with the Patriots before, he's a super good guy, but he's in particular Alex Van Peltz guy. He played for him in what I think is the, you know, the best sort of whole season of play that Jacoby Brissette has put on tape, which was 2022 in Cleveland, but that offensive line,

the 22 Browns, you have, what, you have, you have, you have two pro bowlers. Yeah. You have one of the best. You have a top five offensive line in the NFL, and it really plays into strengths. And now, Drake May is like a. little bit of a mixed bag against pressure. He certainly got more athleticism, more mobility. He had some issues in college running into pressure, but he's, at least he's running, you know, and he's pretty good at throwing on the move. So he at least has the skill set. And you've seen,

you know, I went to a practice there, and I went to that joint practice against the Eagles, which was tough. I mean, they just struggled. And mostly because of the offensive line, really struggled to just make anything happen. But it did seem even then apparent that if you are in that situation where you have a quarterback who's going to be running for his life a fair amount of the time, you are probably in a better position putting Drake May out there than Jacoby Brissette. And it feels a little counterintuitive because we always think, oh, here's this veteran

quarterback. He knows how to read the defenses. He knows what he's doing. Jacoby Brissette's not cut out for this. Like, that's, he's not the type of player that he is. The problem is, Drake May is a much more important long-term resource for the Patriots. So when do you put that in jeopardy?

And, you know, I'm sure on some level they all could have seen this coming, but I just hear the messaging and I hear, you know, maybe a conversation amongst the coaches. at the beginning of camp that was, no, this is a true competition. And then you get to the end of camp and it becomes clear, like, I don't know if it's a, it probably wasn't a true competition. Like maybe he, maybe May didn't really have the ability to win this in the way that it, that he kind of has just because they don't want to subject him to this.

And that's totally fair. It's just that those are the things that you had to anticipate as a coaching staff, right? Because then you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Then you're getting into a situation. where, you know, you got a message to the locker room. You got a message to a guy like David Andrews, who's the most consistent link on their offensive line, and you're saying, we're pretty committed,

or it seems like we're pretty committed, to trying to at least start the season with the guy who's probably going to make you look worse. And we're doing it because we're thinking, you know, not just about 2024, but 2025 and 2026. that might not be a bad strategy, but it just, it gets tough when you're saying it to these guys who 2024 really matters to them. So I agree with you. That radio interview felt like the first time that the train kind of went off the messaging tracks, but I also think that it's been building

a little bit for a few weeks. Yeah, listen, sometimes we talk about teams in late August and they look like train wrecks and it looks like chaos. And then in October, November, it's a different story or a year later. It's a different story. It happens all the time. What we think now is not, you know, Gerard Mayo could be, could do a great job this year. It's just, you know, the signs this offseason. And to me, it's not, it's like, yes, you know, what you're saying about Mayo is true. I probably have more questions just going to the top, which you said at the beginning of the segment. Like, why did they hire Gerard Mayo without considering really anybody else? Did they think he was the best person for the job? Or did the crafts think we're most comfortable? We know this guy. He's

been around. He's going to listen. He's going to take our input. Elliot Wolf is going to want this job, but he's going to know it's going to come with us kind of pulling the strings and deciding what to do. So organizationally is where I wonder, like, do they know what they're doing? Do they not know what they're doing? I mean, put simply this year is everything with the organization has to be about getting the most out of Drake May in the long term. That is the number one priority. But it's also, you have to manage that with the other people on the roster. And that comes down to the head coach as well. So we'll see what they decide.

We'll see what this team looks like. Hardest schedule in the NFL, Nora, maybe the worst offensive line in the NFL, uncertain quarterback situation, uncertain wide receiver situation. Your best defensive tackle is out indefinitely. You traded your best edge rusher. Like there's a lot of question marks with this team.

The bar is low for sure. But they're going to be interesting, if nothing else, the first year of the post-Belichick. era. If anyone has sort of like indicted their own performance with their actual choices and decisions and sort of like the tangible roster impact that they've had, I think it's more Elliott Wolf than it is Mayo. I think the decision to leave this offensive line and they've had some injuries and you know, you can't rebuild an entire roster in a year. But the decision to have this offensive line, as it currently stands, going into a season where odds are, at some point, you're going to play the guy you took third overall, who's the future of your franchise, I think those are moves that are worthy of criticism. They have some cap space. They shouldn't be in the position that they're in. I just think you add it all together. And I'm just, every time I hear Mayo step to a microphone, I want to root for the guy so

badly, but I find myself just going like, oh, gosh, I don't, I don't know. I don't know if this is going to work out. Yeah. Number one priority for rookie quarterback is if you, have to overpay on average offensive linemen, do it. And here we have a situation this year, in my opinion, Drake May, Jaden Daniels, two rookie quarterbacks could have bottom five offensive lines. And so if that's the case, do you have an OC that can coach around that? I don't know with either of those guys. So again, sometimes, like, I was looking at what I, you know, I do the offensive rankings every year. And I was looking at mine from last year. And I was like ripping the Rams offensive line going into the season. And they were a huge surprise. And they were fine.

So that does happen, but on paper, knowing what we know right now, tough situation for both of those rookies. All right, my first one, Nora, I'm very afraid to even say this into a microphone, even though it's just me and you. I still, you know, I am uncomfortable. Mike Tomlin's streak comes to an end this season. That's the take. I'm afraid to say out loud. The man has coached 17 years in the NFL. You know the streak I'm talking about.

he's never had a losing record. Two years ago, you know, someone I know might have written a bold predictions column before the season, a very dumb football writer, I might add, and predicted that this streak would come to an end. Oh, no, I like that guy. He's okay. You like him? Yeah, I can't remember his name.

Yeah, that's sort of a weird fellow. But Steelers ended up going 9-7-1 with a 39-year-old Ben Roppelsberger, and this writer felt very, very, very stupid. Now, I vowed then and there when I saw that. You know, you could never go public with such a take again, but I'm looking at this situation. And I've gone both ways with the Steelers team all offseason. I thought, I was like, oh, they've built parts of this roster up. I think the defense is going to be good. I like the young offensive, young offensive linemen they've got. You know, Arthur Smith, you're buying low on an Arthur Smith. Everyone's, you know, thinking this guy is a moron after the way the Falcons thing ended. Well, he was good.

in Tennessee. That's a nice offensive coordinator hire, especially replacing Matt Canada. I can't get past the quarterback situation. We analyze every part of these NFL teams. Sometimes just look at the quarterback. Is the team going to be good or not? Every report you read, Norah, Pittsburgh, says Russell Wilson is going to be the starter in week one. Tomlin is expected to announce that sometime this week. So I would imagine they're going to try to run the ball, play great defense. There's only so much you can do to high. a bad passing game. And they've got George Pickens. Look at that depth chart behind George Pickens. It's bottom five in the NFL. I don't know if it's the worst, but Van Jefferson, Calvin Austin

the third, you know, they drafted Roman Wilson. He's been injured. I just don't think they're going to be able to do anything in the passing game. And so even if the defense is good, you know, this offensive line, even though I like it, you got two rookies in front of a quarterback who loves nothing more than taking sacks. I can just see so clearly how this is going to play out. Russell Wilson's going to start the season as quarterback. Everyone's going to be frustrated and see he doesn't have it. They're going to move to Justin Fields at some point.

Maybe they find something in the run game. But again, I think the passing game is still going to be bad. And so over, under four, this team is eight and a half wins. They have the second hardest schedule in the NFL. I have them as a seven or eight win team. I think Tomlin has the first losing season of his career between you and I. What do you think? But you think it's just by a hair?

Just by it. Well, no, I think the floor is pretty low. This team could suck this year, yeah, with this quarterback play. If T.J. Wadd goes out for a month. If the offensive linemen aren't that great. Yeah, no, I do think now the floor is only so low with Tomlin. So I'm not saying like, you know, top five pick. But if they went like six and 11, that would not completely.

shocked me either. If they could stop with this Russell Wilson nonsense, I would be fighting you here because I don't think, you know, I don't think Justin Fields is going to get out there and light the world on fire for the Steelers. I do think that if he is able to, if he winds up playing the majority of the season, I think Arthur Smith, I think that's a good enough fit that with the tools they have, they can play a complimentary style of football. And I don't think it's any worse than what Tomlin's been able to carry on the streak with it at certain points in time. I find it almost incomprehensible that it does seem like Russell Wilson is going to end up starting.

It seems everything I read, everything I watch, it seems as though Fields is doing at least a little better. And I just think we've seen enough of the Russell Wilson show lately to know how that ends. And if that ends up being the choice that I'm, I, yeah, man, I don't think he's win in nine games, even with the rest of what they have on the roster there. I'm still holding on to what I feel like is just like, come on. Like, how can this be? They're going to end up playing Fields.

And I think Fields would give them enough to, to trust Tomlin to keep it going. But I can't fight you that much on it as long as all the stuff that we're hearing about Wilson continues to be the case. I find it wacky. Yeah, I think they're stuck because I think Russell Wilson will play more conservatively and maybe not turn the football over as much. And so if you're trying to win with defense, that might be a little bit appealing to them. Fields is going to make the run game a lot better, but he's just been a negative play machine.

And I think he had a chance this summer to maybe grab this job and he didn't do it. I agree with you. He probably, the reports out of Pittsburgh maybe played a little bit better, but it was still like, who it's still. I think he's been better in the games. Yeah, maybe. So I could get excited about like run the ball 75% of the time or something crazy, then try to win with that and defense and then throw a couple bombs every week and see if you can win that way. But it's, man, it's a tough situation. And by the way, I'm a Tomlin defender.

Like, I don't people, there's a difference between like the local narrative with Tomlin and the national narrative with Tomlin where I think locally there, they feel like he gets too much shine and he hasn't won a playoff game in a long time. give me a break. Look at who the quarterbacks have been on that team. Washed Ben Rafflesberger, Mason Rudolph, Duck Hodges, Kenny Pickett.

Like most coaches with these quarterbacks, I'm telling you, your team stinks. You're not sniffing 500. Your team wins three games. Yeah. I mean, you can point to the playoff thing with me

if you want to go back to whatever, 2017 and say that was a good team. They didn't win a playoff game. Fine. Since then, most coaches with these quarterbacks, they stink. You get a top.

five pick, the coach is fired. So I am still a Tomlin believer. I just think they're in a very tough spot. By the way, you could make the case that the best thing for them would be to bottom out, you know, get a top pick and really, you know, grab that quarterback. So that might not be the end of the world if his streak ends there. All right, let's take a break. We'll come back. We've got more takes. We're afraid to say out loud. Football is back and there's no better place to get in on the NFL action than Fandul, America's number one sports. book because right now all customers can bet $5 and get a three-week free trial of NFL Sunday ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV.

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All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. We've hit the Patriots. We've hit the Steelers. Nora, what do you have for your second take? You're afraid to say out loud. All right. Here's the deal. I'm like, I regret everything that I've said about the new kickoff being exciting and it's going to change everything and there's going to be all these dynamic

returns and we're going to, like, you know, you're not going to be getting a soda when the special team's play is coming. I think they're going in the right direction, but I just think the kickoff is still going to be kind of mid this year because the league has not, when they changed the rule, it seems like we are finding out that they have not done enough to create a large enough incentive to avoid touchback. 100%.

And now I'm arguing in the face of some coverage here, right? Because the league has been sending around the stats from preseason. Now, there are always a lot of returns during preseason. but still, they've been sending around these stats and they're pretty like triumphant, right? Teams are returning around 78% of kickoffs, which is way, way, way, way up. It was 22% last season. However, on a week to week basis in the preseason, it has been going down and down and down. And the average starting field position in these preseason games has been at the 28th,

3 yard line. You know, it's less than two yards of a difference from a touchback, which is the 30. And there has been some buzz going around that it would be better if the touchback went to the 35. That was the XFL rule, I think, right? Yes. Yeah, I think that was, but they didn't want to go that far with it. Yes.

And there's been some renewed buzz that like, oh, maybe they should change it. Maybe they should change it now. Maybe they should change it during the season. NFL's basically said like, no, no. And so I think they will get there. I think they will eventually realize that they didn't go far enough with this. And I think they will change the rule, but I don't think they're changing it anytime soon. And here's the thing.

Most coaches, not every coach you have your Dan Campbell's, but most coaches, they are conservative people. And it just feels like these guys have caught on to, look, it's not really all that different. how this is working out. And you know what we would like to do? As long as we can, you know, we can get that landing zone, as long as we can avoid the possibility of huge play, giving up a touchdown,

we're going to say, let's just take the conservative route. And you can see it going, it's gone down substantially, um, week after week in the preseason. And I just, you know,

I have been interested in this new rule. there's been a lot of hoopla over it. It obviously looks different. Like it looks different when they run it. The formations are different. But I think in terms of creating all of these super exciting plays and returns and we've totally re-energized to the kickoff, woohoo. I think it's going to turn out pretty mid this season.

I'm with you. I'm debating what version of cranky shield we want to, you know, come out here. Crank it up. Crank, crank, crank. Yeah, I mean, it's it. They went halfway with it. Your point, I mean, that, that, I've, that, I've, That's what I thought.

I was like, because it's not just like, like you said, the difference between a touchback and the average return is 1.7 yards. Okay, 1.7 yards per kickoff. Now, if you're a coach, you have to decide how much, you know, coaches, they're already complaining about practice time nonstop. How much practice time do you want to commit to making sure you're so good at this when the average return is the 28.3? And if you just kick it into the end zone, it's going to be. the 30. Like, that's time you're taking away from doing other things that could be more valuable with your team. So they went halfway. I feel like if you're going to do it, you got to go in all way, all the way, make the touchback of 35 and say, all right, now there is a legitimate penalty.

Seven yards. That's legit. It's a big deal. That we can get behind. One point seven yards. I can't get behind. So that's one, too. Nora, I had a, in a wonderful time sitting next to you at the Super Bowl in Vegas in, when was that February? Do you remember? Do you remember? remember anybody in our general vicinity during that time going, this game is so boring because of kickoffs. Oh my God. These touchbacks. The NFL is broken. This sucks. No, who was saying this? They keep citing that there were 13 touchbacks in the Super Bowl. Guess what? That game was awesome. It was riveting. Everyone was glued to their TVs. I'm watching it go. This is one of the best games I've ever seen in person. I wasn't going. This isn't exciting enough for me because there's

touchbacks. When I'm sitting here on Sundays, you know what I like to do? When it's a it's a commercial break and a kickoff, I like to go refill my water bottle. I like to get a snack. Maybe I got an overactive bladder and I got to go to the bathroom again. Maybe I want to go say something to my kids. You just take a breath. Decompress. Maybe I want to stretch the hammies. You're old. You got to stretch the hammies. Maybe I want to. I don't, I don't, it doesn't bother me. It never bothered me that there was a touchback. So, all right, you said crank it up. I cranked it up.

And I don't want to rip. I'm for like, change is fine. You want to try something? Try it. I'm good with that. You had an idea. Like I think that's better than the alternative of just sticking. I just,

I don't like when we change something where I don't view it as a problem. Maybe they viewed it as a problem. But their solution, again, they went halfway with it where I don't know that it's going to make that much of a difference. And by the way, last thing I'll say, Nora, I'm watching the Eagles preseason game, or at least had it on in the background on Saturday. First kickoff, backup wide receiver, Jacob Harris, violent collision. The guy gets a concussion. Wasn't this supposed to be that it's going to be? Now, I don't know. I'm sure the NFL has data and says, no, no, calm down, you're citing one thing. I understand that. But if it's a touchback, the poor guy who's

fighting for a spot on an NFL roster or a practice squad doesn't have a concussion. So I'm just saying it's not like this is a totally safe play and no one's going to get injured. So why are we adding more violent collisions to the sport than a touchback? So that is my whole spiel. I'm 100% with you. I don't even think you needed to be afraid to say this one out loud. This one here. We just, okay, we'll turn the mics on.

Maybe we should publish this. Yeah. We should publish this. There you go. Yeah. I mean, look, this is Michael Lopez, who does really great statistical analysis for the NFL. In week one of the kickoffs, 30% of the kickoffs in the preseason went to the end zone.

By the second week, it was up to 40%. And I think it went up again in some of the third games. It does seem like we're watching this discussion play out in front of us, is these coaches being like, oh, God, just kick it to the end zone. Let's not worry about this. We'll say there could be some exciting moments early in the season, I think, because I do think you're at least going to be able to. to tell which coaches are buttoned up on this and which aren't, you know, like there may be,

I'm sure there's going to be an exciting player too and people will say, see, shield, all right, that's fine. Talk to me. Like, when we get to the end of the season, did you like this? Did you not like this? I have a wonderful, wonderful take by you. Yeah, I do feel like a bit of a, I don't know, is it like a kickoff scrooge or something. Like, I understand.

It really doesn't bother me as much as it might have felt like when I was just yelling two minutes ago. You know, it just... Well, I told you to go full crank, so you can blame me. Yeah, I mean, usually... I'm mostly, like, neutral. Like, all right, who cares? It's not for me, but it's not going to, like, ruin my Sunday or anything. But I just don't understand.

I just feel a little bit like Lucy with the football. I feel a little bit like, ah, I was excited for this. Yeah. I just am not sold. Maybe they're saving it for the regular season, and I'll come back and I'll apologize for yelling into this microphone. All right, that was a good one. My second one, and it's...

We're going to lead it off. This is a special part of today's episode, sponsored by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm going to let you all in on a secret. That's the theme of the show. It's all secrets amongst friends. Any serious NFL fan knows that the best way to watch football this season is NFL Sunday ticket. It's a must have with features like multi-view where you can watch up to four live NFL games at once. Plus, there's a stats and fantasy view to help you keep track of your teams and players.

Most importantly, when you bundle NFL Sunday ticket and YouTube TV, which by the way, just did that two days ago. Listen, they got my payment. I mean, I'm a paying customer. You get every game every Sunday. It's the most live NFL games all in one place. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket out of market games excludes digital only games. Device and content restrictions apply.

So I'm going to be sitting here to my right on Sunday afternoons with NFL Sunday. Sunday ticket and YouTube TV. And if this take is wrong that I'm about to deliver, guess what? I could just switch over to another team. That's the beauty of having the option to watch every single game or multi-view. But Nora, maybe, maybe this team will be a little bit of a surprise team and be worthy of being in the multi-view on a Sunday afternoon. And that team, I swear is one that we've barely talked about on this podcast all summer long. And that's the New York Giants. So the take is, Nora, that just between you and I, this one, I would never, never go public with this one.

The Giants might not be horrible. That's the take. Now, let me be clear. I'm not saying they're going to be good. They're going to make the playoffs. They're going to challenge for the NFCEs. Nothing like that. I just think they have a chance to be kind of competitive.

kind of mediocre, like seven and ten. They're over under for wins is six and a half. But if you look at the FTN almanac, which Aaron Schatz does a great job putting together every summer, they have the Giants as the worst team in the NFL. I don't think they're going to be the worst team in the NFL. So what is my reasoning? Starts with the pass rush on defense. On paper, this is a top 10 pass rush.

I like the Brian Burns trade, Dexter Lawrence, one of the best interior pass rushers in the NFL, Kavon Tibado. had 11 and a half sacks last year. Now he's kind of the third most important guy on that defensive line. It has a chance to be a very disruptive group, I think, that can keep them in a lot of games. So that's kind of what I like about the defense. And then offensively, they're just getting clowned for, you know, the Daniel Jones preseason performance. The preseason can lie to us.

Don't draw conclusions from the preseason. I'm not telling you Daniel Jones is great. But we have seen him two years ago look like. like a competent quarterback in the NFL. Now, we had Sequin Barclay, by his side, big loss, but they're wide receivers that year two seasons ago. Darius Slayton, Richie James, and Isaiah Hodgins. Now you're bringing Malik neighbors into the mix. It is a different group. So this comes down to two things. One, can the offensive line hold up. We'll see. If they can, it's going to get really ugly, really fast. They cannot. I lost you.

And then the last thing is just their recent draft classes. Malik Neighbors, I mentioned. I'm the guy usually cautioning against expecting too much from rookies. But, man, I love Malik Neighbors. I think he can be an impact player in year one. And then last year they took the corner, Deontay Banks in the first round. Can he be a good player? Because otherwise, they're going to be very bad at those positions.

So there you go. I'm not saying playoffs. I'm saying seven wins. If I have a couple drinks, maybe eight wins. But with us, I'm sober right now. drinking a nice salt water to get the throat feeling good here. But seven wins is my take off the record just between us. What do you think?

You know what? Here's what I think is like if the New York Giants are listening to this, don't do that. Like you don't want this. The New York Giants, I've never like there's so many, we see this all the time in football. Sheel, I am, I don't know if we've ever talked about this. I am marrying into a big Giants fan. family. So I have like a new, I have a stake in this team's eventual success. I don't care how

they do, like, I don't care if they win specific games. But at some point, like, I would like to live in a world where the people that I love are going to feel the joy of rooting for a successful football team. And I can think of no thing that the New York football giants need in order to get to that place than just like bottoming out. And this, this seven win nonsense. Because Malik neighbors, now, neighbors seems awesome. Neighbor seems awesome. But you know what I worry about more than anything else with this team? Is that somehow some great season from the pass rush where, you know, they're winning a couple close games that are in single digits and they're getting just enough out of the offense to, you know, ignore the fact that run game takes a step back.

the offensive line is still a mess, that they keep doing this thing where they're sort of trying to be competitive when they're actually not competitive and they've fumbled the Daniel Jones thing with the contract and they just don't know what direction they're going in. I can think of nothing I want less for the New York Giants,

not as someone who's a fan of theirs, but as someone who's a fan of some fans of theirs than to win seven games this season. This team needs to be terrible. They need to win two games and they need to get over themselves. That's probably true. I think that would be best for the franchise is if they just sucked,

got a top whatever, top three pick and we're able to figure out I don't think they're the worst team in the league. I agree with you there. Okay. We'll see. They very well could be. That offensive line thing.

But here's the thing is they have a few more, like they have a few more, it seems like, and I'm buying some neighbors type in saying this. They have a few more like special players. Yeah. Than the real worst teams in the league. Like one of the, the issues with the Patriots.

And I don't even think the Patriots are the worst team in the league. But they, actually, they might be. You go down that roster. And there are some spots where they're okay. But particularly, you know, they trade away Judon, although I wouldn't have put him in this category either. Like, you just can't find anywhere where it's like, oh, that's a guy.

Like, you're excited about that guy. Right. Maybe Neighbors is that on offense. And the Giants have a couple of those guys on defense. So it's not terrifying, but seven games, man. Like, I don't know. You helped bring it home because that's really has been my take with the Giants. Like premium positions, you look if you just did every team's premium positions and,

all right, you want to throw obviously quarterback, you know, maybe quarterback aside. But left tackle, Andrew Thomas, edge rusher, Brian Burns, defensive tackle, Dexter Lawrence. Like I'm doing my trade value column working on it right now. the ringer. And to your point, all three of those guys are on there. It's the 75 most valuable trade assets in the NFL. Those are three players at premium positions in their primes, who if you wanted to trade them tomorrow, you could get a nice haul for those three guys. I don't know that I'll have a single Patriot on that list. Like the Broncos, I'll probably have Patrick Sertan End of list. Yeah. End of list. So yeah, I think that is my point. And so then if you add neighbors

and banks to that, and that's a big if, I understand. But then you're talking about left tackle, edge, defensive tackle, wide receiver corner, it's something where, yes, you got to get a lot better around those guys and you have to get a lot better at quarterback, but you're like, like, if they were to fire everyone after the season, and like whoever would be coming in, you're not starting from scratch. You've got some blue chip players on that team. So we'll see. We'll see if the giants are worthy of the multi-view or not. The team that I feel this way about is the Broncos in the sense that, okay, I think the four worst teams in the league, according to me, but also I think this is sort of consensus.

It's the Panthers, it's the Patriots, it's the Giants, and it's Denver. Does that feel right to you? Yeah, I think you could make an argument for the commanders. You could probably make an argument for the Raiders. But yeah, I think those four are probably in there. Yeah, we can sneak the commanders in there. Yeah. Of those five teams, if one of those five teams was going to surprise us a little bit this season,

Which happens, by the way. Which happens. I think the two good picks, I think it's either the Giants or the Broncos. I would rather say that if I think one of those things is going to happen, I'm a little bit more interested in the Broncos thing just because I can see a world in which quarterback is the driving factor of that. And that just feels like a more comfortable bet than enough of these other things are going to come together to overcome the quarterback situation, which feels like the argument for the

Giants. But I'll tell you that it's one of those two. Like one of those two feels like the right one. I guess you could start talking about the Patriots and say like if May ends up really being a revelation, but as we talked about earlier, doesn't feel like things are looking so great in terms of him getting on the field and also just what it looks like behind the offensive line when he gets there. So I'd go in a different direction, but I don't think it's crazy. Yeah, the hardest thing in my mind to predict is like which rookie quarterback is going to be good. And so we all assume right now, I think Caleb Williams is the guy. There's a scenario where Jaden Daniels is just like a machine, you know,

and he's just like putting that offense on his back as a dual threat guy and they're way better than anyone think. So that's one that's always hard to predict. I would agree with you. I think the Giants have the better roster over the Broncos. But Sean Payton is he a floor setter, you know, kind of like what we talked about with Tomlin. Peyton's never won fewer than seven games. The Broncos last year, we talked about them. They suck. They won eight games last year. I know there's flukiness to that in some of the numbers,

but they were eight and nine last year. So we shall see Broncos and giants. Are they going to be on your multi-view? Who knows? Do whatever you want. But thanks to our friends at NFL Sunday ticket on YouTube TV. Don't miss a moment of the action. Watch every game, every Sunday when you bundle NFL Sunday ticket and YouTube TV. Sign up today at YouTube.com slash ringer. Local and national games on YouTube TV, NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games, device and content restrictions apply. All right. One more break.

We come back. We get to our final takes that we're afraid to say out loud. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Number three, what do you got? Oh, boy, Shiel, this is the one that I'm that, you know, you can't tell anyone I said this. I think I like Kirk Cousins. I think he's fun. I'm so sorry.

This is terrible. Dude's not playing. He's still rehabbing. He's, you know, he says he's going to be ready for week one, but he's,

he's not playing in the preseason. He's doing some drills and practice, whatever. And this man is just viving out at levels that we do not ordinarily see. First of all, I think he's gained like seven pounds of muscle. He's like rolling up to press conferences and muscle teas.

He's talking about how he's gluten-free. He's grain-free. He's been, quote unquote peeling his burgers? What's that mean? No bun? What is peeling his burgers mean? So it's not no bun.

I needed to like read into this because I was confused. It's not no bun. I mean, he doesn't eat the bun. Okay. It means that he's getting, he's like, he's receiving the burger with the bun on it. But then he's taking a bite of just the patty and the toppings, sort of where it's sticking out.

And then he's gradually like peeling back the bun so that he can just use it as a as a handle as a delivery mechanism but then he's not actually eating it. And an absorbent, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

Is that a thing? As somebody whose entire, you know, Instagram algorithm is either golf tips or weird like health tips where I'm like, I'm doing this. This is going to be great for me. And then I quit after one day. I would like more on this.

Yeah, if you have, I've never heard of this before. I think you could just like not, you could, if you wanted to have a, burger without the bun, you could just eat it with a fork and knife or whatever. But Kirk Cousins isn't doing that and he's talking about it. He got the Falcons, he got Rahe-Morris to take the Falcons to a water park last week.

The Margaritaville water park somewhere in Georgia. And it comes out, so he posts about this and he says that he has been dreaming of going to a water park for years. And then he actually, he backtracks and he says again, decades, actually. This has been such a long, a dream in the process of its realization going back decades.

This is apparently a big enough deal that he has lobbied many coaches in the past for a team water park outing. And this got to be a big enough thing with the Vikings last year that the long snapper played a prank

where he got five coach buses to just isolate outside of the facility. For like an entire day of training camp, I guess strategically chosen because it seemed like the day of practice fit into the schedule. They didn't have a lot to do

where it would be like, this would be the day that we would go to the water park. But they weren't going to a water park. And apparently this was so effective that the offensive linemen wouldn't tape up their cleats because they were like, we're not practicing.

We're not going. Like this isn't happening. But it was a, prank. And this is like, this must have been devastating to Kirk because you see these photos of him at the water park and you see the teammates and they're all like they're having a nice time. And then you look at Kirk Cousins who looks like he's experiencing a degree of glee, like not normally seen on men of his age bracket. And I want to make fun of it. Sheal, like, I want to mock this guy. He is a bit corny. He's always been. men a bit corny. I can't. I can't do it. He seems unleashed.

I don't know. Like maybe, maybe the thing, maybe the thing with Michael Pennex is like Jordan loving Kirk Cousins. And he's just, he's like, he's scaled up. They, they, they, it was his birthday. And they played a, they had a special practice playlist that was designed especially for him.

The entire Atlanta Falcons team, basically listen to Jimmy Eat Orald for an entire day of their training camp. It just take some time. All right. Totally. I don't know what's going on. I want to be snarky. I want to be cynical.

I can't. He's having a great time. And I have no choice but to be happy for him. Well, that was a great update because honestly, I've missed like 95% of that. It's, I don't, I feel like I've consumed very little Kirk Cousins content. Well, because he's not playing. He's not playing. He's not ready to play.

He's not ready to play. But everything you mentioned, I'm like, oh, yeah, I kind of remember seeing that on the timeline. Like, I definitely have a picture in my head of him on a water slide on his back, like, you know, looking very excited to get dumped into a pool or whatever that is at the Margaritaville water park there in Georgia. I remember seeing that. I remember there was some controversy about the playlist where someone on my timeline said, Kirk Cousins gave them a playlist. And then there was a clarification.

No, no, they played a playlist that they thought I would like because these are songs I like. So I did. Which also, hold on, we're going to zoom in on that moment for a second. The Falcons tweeted on his birthday, Kirk gets the ox. And they tweeted this whole playlist. And it's all, I mean, it is Jimmy World. It is good Charlotte. It is like every, you know, sort of pop punk band from 2003, just Mr. Brightside.

Like, we're doing all of the hits. And Kirk apparently sees this and takes. it upon himself to send a voice memo to Kyle Brandt and say, that's not what happened. I didn't get the ox. They just made a playlist designed especially for me. Like, why? He, I mean, I guess the thing that ties all of this together is he doesn't have enough to do. He's clearly still like he's being held out of stuff. He's doing some drills. He's doing some workout stuff, but he's not doing everything and he's not playing in the preseason. And he's just finding ways to occupy his time.

And I don't know. I just, I, I, I, I somehow find it unsettlingly charming. You know, when you said, you know, man of his age, I was debating whether to take offense. And then you started naming all these songs that were popular in like my early 20s. And now I'm like, God. All right. So I want to move past that part as quickly as possible. And then, yeah, I get, like, I put, you know, there are people in your life who you're

like, all right, these are people, you know, sometimes you meet someone for the first time. And you're like, if I met this person another time, like, we would probably be best friends, you know, like this, we get a lot. And you have that group. And then you have the other group you meet them and you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't need to ever see this person again. Then you had the middle group where they're nice and they're not offensive where you're like, if this person was my neighbor or a family, like, they'd be, I would put Kirk Cousins in that group. Like, if Kirk Cousins lived across the street, I'm sure we'd make nice small talk when we went

outside mowing the lawn or whatever. I don't know that I would want him any closer than that in my life. But it's nice to see people experience joy. You know, he should be, thankfully, he's got a great life. He's getting paid a lot of money. Seems to have a nice family, nice kids, just moved to Atlanta. You know, he wants to play, but it's like not the end of the world. If he doesn't play, you still get paid. Team CTC with the guaranteed contract. So I'm glad he's finding a way to enjoy his summer, not pouting about the Michael Pennock stuff anymore, especially after that draft. night when it was like everyone telling me I needed to, you know, cry a river for Kurt Cousins because they drafted Michael Penix, which I was not happy about. So that's it. Listen, I don't know if this

is a weekly segment or what, but I, it seems to me that I just ignore everything about Kirk Cousins, but I like the update. So yeah, we might have to think about this for the Ringer NFL show in season. He's, he's living for himself. That's what I think. That's what I think is coming through to me. Good for him. Kirk Cousins. All right. My last one, we should end it with that. That was like a nice joyous one to end on. And I'm about to just rip a team here. So we're going to go in the opposite direction with my last one. That's good.

That's good. The world is healing. I think this take, which I haven't been, and maybe I should turn a mic on for this or, you know, turn this in for the ringer.com. I think this Brown's offense could just totally suck this year, be a complete disaster, bottom five offense. And if you're saying, well, why are you afraid to say it out loud? Because I believe in Kevin Stefansky.

as a very good offensive coach, so I don't want to necessarily fade him. And the offensive line in a perfect world should be one of the top five units in the NFL. So if you give me Stefansky and you give me offensive line, I shouldn't be in a position where I'm saying this offense is going to suck. But they've had a secretly bad summer, this Browns team.

And the two starting tackles, Jed Wills and Jack Conklin have not practiced. Jack Conklin came off a PUP right before we recorded this, but still a guy coming off a season-ending injury. Older player, that's not great. So you have a shaky tackle situation. You have Nick Chub is out for at least the first four games. Who knows what he's going to look like when he gets back?

We're all rooting for him. Love watching Nick Chubb play football. I hope he gets healthy and plays well. But you don't know that that's going to be the case. And then the other thing, which I don't know why this honestly doesn't get talked about more. Maybe it's just we don't like to talk about Deshaun. Watson at all. I know you and I did a bunch of podcasts when everything was happening two years ago. But even now, if we're just looking at the on-field play, the guy's been terrible. I don't know if

it's his camp, you know, his camp controlled the whole narrative around him and insiders were afraid to say anything other than be a mouth. So maybe that's it. No, they're afraid of not getting scoops from his camp in the future, whether it's his agent or anyone else. But if you look at this statistically. The last two seasons, 41 quarterbacks have had at least 400 dropbacks. Deshawn Watson ranks 39th in EPA per pass play behind only Zach or ahead of only Zach Wilson and Bryce Young. I mean, think about that. Think about what they gave up for this guy, what came with trading for a guy like this. And he's been an absolute disaster in this offense. Last year, He has the season-ending shoulder injury this year, this couple of, last week, whatever,

he's held out of practice with shoulder soreness. Like, you have no idea what you're getting out of your quarterback. So you add that with the offensive tackle stuff, with the running back stuff. And then I think the narrative of last year was that, oh, my gosh, Joe Flacco came in and this offense was great. Like, Joe Flacco was fun because he was just letting it rip for whether it's an interception or a touchdown. They finished 28th in defensive DVOA last year.

They couldn't run the ball. defense carried this team into the playoffs. And so I just wonder if we're looking at a similar story this season. I still like the defense quite a bit, but I feel pretty good about fading this offense. And I just feel like what's been going on with them offensively this summer probably hasn't been given enough attention. So there you go. Deshaun Watson hasn't played as an effective quarterback since 2020. Yeah.

Think about that. It's been four years. In those four years, even if you ignore everything that, frankly, we shouldn't ignore, but just from a football perspective, he has played 12 games in those four years, and they've been pretty bad. There have been, you know, it's ebbed and flowed, he was dealing with some injuries. On a basic level, it has been four years since this person has been an effective quarterback. And in the very limited amount of time he's spent on an active game NFL football field since, it's been somewhere between a disaster and mediocre.

And there are just, I mean, can you think of a situation in NFL history where that has turned around? Because I can't. Like, that would be a very, I mean, this is obviously an unusual circumstance in a number of ways. but that would be a fairly unprecedented career turnaround. Yeah, it's well said. The circumstances around him are getting worse. It looks like this year, not better. I mean, when he was in there before,

maybe he had a better offensive line. Maybe he had Nick Chubb in there. That's not the case this year. So, yeah, we'll see what happens with Watson in that Brown's offense and that Browns team. All right. there you go. Those were the takes just between you and I. Always good to catch up with an old friend and just, you know, riff on some football thoughts when we're not doing football for actual content on podcasts or on the ringer.com. So thank you to Nora Princeati. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo on video and social additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna. Ram Gopal. We should be back later in the week with Deontay and Stephen Ruiz talking about

award picks for the season. So we'll do that later this week. And if there's breaking news before that, we will, of course, get to it then. Appreciate everyone listening. Talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL shop. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-dash help.com. Call 1 888789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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