The Ringer NFL Show - Couples Therapy With Contenders

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Austin Gayle and Diante Lee are here to sit down and tackle some difficult topics about a handful of Super Bowl contenders. They talk through some resolutions to some tough conversations that the Niners, Dolphins (29:26), Bengals (43:41), Lions (54:35), Eagles (1:06:54), and Cowboys (1:16:18) are having right now before the season. Hosts: Austin Gayle and Diante Lee Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome in to the Ringer NFL show. Austin Gale here with my guy, the man, the myth, the monolith. It's Deontay Lee, new Ringer guy in L.A. We're potting in studio. I have not potted with anybody in studio in L.A. in person here at the Ringer yet. This is the first time. Yeah, man.

Two guys who made the trip up from San Diego to make this happen. You know, we also had our Pads Cross at PFF. That's right. Work together there for a little bit. I still remember I read one article at the Columbus Divers. dispatch. And I was like, talk to my boss at the time. And I was like, we got to bring this guy in. I don't know, I don't know how we do it. I don't know what we got to do. But this guy has something. It's so good to see you get here at the ringer now. I obviously was, you know, everyone who's like got

hired Deontzo Lee, got a hired Deontoli. Great to have you here at the ringer. Super excited to be potting together. Both San Diego guys. It sucks that you never got to feel the Cincinnati experience though in PFF. You know, it's really, it's really something that can mold you. It can mold you into the worst possible thing. I'm happy you actually didn't because Cincinnati is still hell on earth. But I'm excited to pot with you, man. We got together. I was like, what should we pot about? It's June. It is June. And I was like, what do you want to talk about? And you immediately start talking about some of these hard conversations we have to have with contenders here this upcoming season.

And you're talking through some of those, we're going to get to those. And the framing I kept coming back to, and maybe this is telling on myself, couples therapy. It's time to have hard conversations, start to unlock some stuff. in couples therapy with some of these contenders. What was your immediate reaction when I tried to frame it with that way? We're like, this is stupid. We got to get out of this. Or are you happy we're on this train?

It's classic Austin, first of all. This is definitely classic Austin to begin with. But I think that framing it through the lens of like couples therapy, I think kind of hammer us home the point that I was making earlier, right? Which is that we have to have uncomfortable conversations with contenders. I think every year it's very easy at this time of year. You look back at who made the playoffs last year, who won their respective divisions. and you just think that stuff happens in perpetuity, right?

Like we always assume this level of inertia once we think we've established something in football, and it never happens that way. Right. And a lot of that just comes down to some of the conversations we're going to be having today with what's going on with the team's roster, what's going on with the team's head coaching situation, what's going on with the quarterback. And I think that that usually, that's a good way, I think, at this time of year, to kind of frame where things are with NFL teams ahead of training camp.

And then obviously as more details come out will really kind of crystallize where things stand. with the league as we walk towards the season. I almost had to get into couples therapy when I asked my girlfriend to move to Cincinnati nine days after graduating San Diego State. It didn't go, you know, it was not great. It's a hard pitch. It's a hard sell. But I also feel like this framing, there's a lot of toxic relationships amok with some

of these contenders and stuff that they have to work through if they are going to be big dogs. I wanted to also position the non-contenders and put everyone in this kind of awkward bucking here. So I have honeymoon stage, just have a honeymoon stage. just having fun. Falcons, Chargers, Bears, Colts, Vikings, Raiders, commanders, Titans, Broncos, Patriots, Panthers. Essentially anyone with brand new coach,

a brand new quarterback, a combination of both. I think the Titans are definitely still in this like we think Will Levis can be something mode. Anyone who drafted a quarterback this offseason feels like they can do that as well. The Chargers are definitely in the honeymoon stages with my guy, Jim Arbaugh, making all the content possible. I also did this other one. The awkward situation ships. The still scrolling hinge, maybe subscribing to Tinder, the paid option to get some extra fire.

I don't know what's on Tinder these days. But Steelers, Buccaneers, Seahawks, Cardinals, Saints, Giants. No legitimate conversation around those teams being deep playoff contenders, barring some insane, like, commitment to whoever ends up winning the Steelers quarterback job, right? Baker Mayfield taking another step with the Buccaneers without Dave Canales, new offense coordinator, now the head coach in Carolina. Seahawks, they like Gino. Gio has played well, but is it enough? Cardinals, Kyla Murray's healthy, but what does it mean?

They don't know yet. Saints, they're always going to be scrolling hinge. They're never going to be actually ready to reset. They need to get out of that relationship, whatever it is. And then the Giants, they're definitely scrolling Hinch, at quarterback at coach. They don't know where they're going. So the other ones I had the contenders with no appointment needed.

No, in a happy relationship, things are going well. Ravens, Chiefs, Texans, Packers. And I added Rams. what's your reaction to Rams being in the no appointment needed? I feel like Sean McBay is happy with where they're at. Do they wish Aaron Donald was still playing? Sure. Do they wish maybe Cooper Cup was five years younger?

Probably. But is there something to work through there? Or do they kind of just have to continue to trust the process? Hope Matthew Stafford can stay healthy, hope that Cooper Cup can return healthy and still be up for him, I think at 31 years old now. Are the Rams, do you feel like they should be in some other bucket here? Or do you think that they are kind of where they need to be?

I think they're where they need to be, right? I would view everything after the bounce back of 2023 is house money. Like I think that everything's gravy for them. You keep Sean McVeigh, you know, obviously we saw the reporting for Jordan Roderig last offseason on, you know, Sean McVeigh kind of having to find themselves, them kind of rebuilding some of what they were, identity-wise, the energy changes in the building. They go, they have a great run this past season, all these young guys on defense, Pooka-Kua breaks out on offense. I don't think they have any reason to feel badly about this year. That's obviously subject to change, right? Like, because you could have made an argument last year.

I would have heard you out if you were concerned about whether or not Matthew Stafford could last through a 17-game season coming into last year. And then he played his, you know, he played lights out. Same thing with Cooper Cup. And obviously, that's going to be a conversation with Cup for the remainder of his career is where his legs are at, how much of a target load he can take. But you get Pooka and Akua, and now you feel much better about that. Right. So I think that, I think it's fair to kind of say they're in a almost like in a holding stage. They don't have any reason to feel bad,

but I don't know if the house is built on the most stable of foundations in terms of contending right now. I just think that they're okay with it. If they were to turn around from last year and have a six and 11 year, I think everybody's going to look and be like, hey, man, eventually this was going to happen, and then you can start talking about turning the page. They've done, and this is obviously massive credit to Les Sneed,

drafting players on day two and day three and developing them into stars. Pugano Koucau was obviously that major success at fifth round pick from a year ago. I also like what they did in Free Agency, adding Jonah Jackson and also bringing in Kevin Dotson to beef up the interior. It's all up to, you know, Matthew Stafford. And that kind of is kind of the transition to this other bucket that I had where it's teams that probably should be contenders, but I don't think they're accepting any of our calls for some couples counseling.

I think they're declining some emails. They're neglecting the problem. The other way I put this is kind of like they have a singular success path. these teams are the Jags. It's bulky has cast that die. They obviously paid Trevor Lawrence all this money this offseason. They brought in Gabe Davis. They're going to try and throw out of it again.

It has to work this year. I would argue that it's boom or bust for the roster that bulky is put together. It's completely his roster. When you look at how many Jags players have left since the Urban Meyer era and what he's brought in and who he's brought in, it's Balkees roster they have to put up. Then you have the Browns. It's Watson robust.

Watson has to play well if the Browns are going to be good. And then I had the Jets here as well, and the Bills with Josh Allen. The Jets, the Bills being, yes, they lost a lot of defensive players. It feels like a reset year for the Buffalo Bills, but that's been a tired conversation through this offseason. We know if Josh Allen puts on the cape that he's capable of, this bill seems going to be good. It's going to be deep playoff competitive. Spending some time on the Jets, I mean, that's maybe one of the more toxic relationships here, but he's not accepting calls.

He's not even at mandatory minicamp. There's rumors that it's another ayahuasca trip. Is it a dark room? Is it a conspiracy theory podcast that he's kind of putting into production? Is the ringer doing that? We don't know. We don't actually know what Aaron Rogers is doing. It is one of the more toxic relationships we have.

Where's your head out there? Do you think any of these people would actually entertain couples counseling? I don't think they're ready to have that conversation. I don't think they're ready to have that conversation with the Jaguars. I would say that they certainly aren't ready to have that conversation. And I think a lot of that comes back to people having to own their role and maybe not maximizing Trevor Lawrence, which is a very uncomfortable conversation when you think about Trent Balky in the way that that roster has been built over time.

I think the bills are maybe declining calls because they feel like they're in a stronger position than maybe what we would from the outside in. Like you said, I mean, Josh Allen is in a similar position that Cam Newton was in coming on to his second contract in Carolina, which is if the dude's healthy and he puts the cape on and they're riding just that guy,

he's probably good enough more Sundays than not to get you across the finish line. So I would not be surprised if they won the AFC East again, right? And they're leading their way into the playoffs, maybe playing at home in a playoff game at worst, you know, on the road on the wildcard situation. And we feel like a quarterback like that can win you a game in the playoffs, no matter what the situation is. I don't know if the roster is strong enough for us to consider them a contender, but the quarterback certainly is. They're a narrow favorite in the AFC East right now, very narrow favorite over the Jets to win the

AFC East. The worry for me is obviously losing all the defensive talent. Right. And then trying to replace Stefan Diggs, Gabe. It's not even from like purely a talent perspective. It's just familiarity. This is going to be one of the bigger tests we've seen for Josh Allen in terms of developing familiarity with Kea Coleman, the new rookie out of Florida State. Got any more with Dalton Kincaid, the former first round pick, first round pick from a year ago. Run game has to work this year. It's more along the lines of why I don't have them in this like hard conversations because the conversation isn't hard. Josh, you're going to have to be the guy. Yeah, you're superman. You are 100% Superman now. There's no other way to go. I would liken the Browns and the Deshawn Watson thing to

like having to buy a house on the interest rates are crazy. So now you're stuck with this 30 year mortgage. Yes. Right. And the interest rate ain't the best. And maybe you know, maybe your partner works in sales in a very tenures industry. And it's just like, hey, man, we just got to eat it and deal with this for as long as we can and just, you know, trying to hold this house up as much as possible. And I think you kind of, you captured it with the Jets. I mean, there's nothing to say that hasn't already been said. Well, I don't know. Aaron Rogers is coming up with a new theory every single week.

And I don't know if you saw, I'm going to have Isaiah our producer play the clip, but Danica Patrick is having people on talking about reptilians. Justin Bieber was going to shape shift into a giant reptilian on stage in front of hundreds of thousands. That to me is kind of Aaron Rogers in a little bit of a nutshell here with Danick and Patrick entertaining reptilian conspiracies. Rogers, his latest are Fauci made up HIV. You also have the big brother stuff that I think he's going to continue to tout

probably through the end of his time, like just legitimately every single camera he thinks is watching him, including the ones in the dark room. My thing is, with this YouTube video specifically and why it caught my eye, one, phenomenal, phenomenal thumbnail. When you have a thumbnail that reads how to spot a reptilian shape shifter with Danica Patrick. That's an instant click. Okay. We're in the content business. I'm in love. Number two, they have chapters on YouTube that you can title. Can I give you some of these chapters please? Please. Why are we here? Great question to ask. Perfect. Perfect. Who do I need to hear it from? These two. Also,

should we lie to our kids? That's a good title. I don't know. We're asking those questions. We're asking those questions. And then the last one I'll add is the 12 dimensions. That's it. I mean, this is just, I hate no free ads, but that's phenomenal concept, phenomenal YouTube stuff there. I'm happy for, I'm happy for Rogers getting out of one relationship into another. Toxic still. I know I skipped over the no appointment needed, but with the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Texans, the Packers, Texans and Packers are like arguably in this honeymoon stage, but they're on borrowed money too, right? They're a year ahead, it feels like. If they go deep this year, they're going to feel a year ahead. No one's expecting them to win the Super Bowl, but there are high

expectations because they have good quarterbacks. CJ Stroudraudor and Love, and then obviously with the Ravens, Chiefs, they're teams that, you know, they're the number one and number two team in the AFC competing in terms of odds on Fandle to win the Super Bowl. That gets us to the cream of the crop, who we scheduled appointments for. We're going to start with the 49ers. We have some questions.

Going to get to the dolphins. You're probably going to know what relationship we're going to talk about there. Bengals, which I think has been a little bit of an underreported conversation or under-discussed conversation with the Bengals that we're going to probably have to have. Then we're going to get the Lions, Eagles, and then finish with the Dallas Cowboys.

Let's start with Sam's Cisco 49ers, though. And it has to start with Brandon Ayyuk. Brand and Iyuk today, seeing reports from Ryan Clark v.SBN. Ayuk says he wants to be in San Francisco first, but is comfortable playing elsewhere if that's something that San Francisco are willing to do via trade. Let's remember the third and four play in the Super Bowl that the 49ers essentially lost on

when instant pressure, Chiefsend 6, Brock Purdy looks right, sales won way over the head of J-1. John Jennings, probably the right way to look, given the pressure, blah, blah, blah, right before the play, broadcast circles the matchup between Brandeouk and Ligerius Sneed. Brandoak break's wide open. He's wide open in the end zone. If, for whatever reason, Brock Purdy looks that way or he hangs on a little bit longer and

is able to get to him, Niners win that game right then and there. Or I think the Chiefs would have an opportunity to go score, but still, have this opportunity. You have more control over the game at that. I do feel like that is kind of an encapsulation of the hard conversations that they have to have about Brock Purdy. It's also the hard conversations that they have to have about Brand Ayuk, which are inextricably linked. Right. Are you going to pay Brandiuk, 30 plus million dollars? Are you going to continue to pay Debo Samuel? Are you going to continue to play? They obviously have this new contract with Christian McCaffrey. What has made the 49ers great is one, Kyle Shanhan.

Two, their ability to invest in other places, specifically on the offense side of the ball. Debo, Ayuk, Trent Williams, Christian McCaffrey, Ushack, Kittle. They've spent money and capital surrounding mid to below mid-cornerbacks, and they've been able to do so because of the contracts that they're in. Once you pay Brock Purdy, the conversation gets interesting. What stands out to you in terms of

what's the most important conversation to have? Is it the IUC one? Is it the Purdy one? Where do you stand with the Niners here? I think the thing with IUC is probably a little indicative of just where the 49ers are, right? I think that this is a great story to kind of encapsulate how tenuous it is

to contend year over year over year. Right? I think a lot of people may remember the post-Super Bowl comments that you were hearing from guys on that team. And you hear things like, hey, when it was 2018, everybody felt great. It hurt losing the Super Bowl, but we know we're going to contend. We'll have another opportunity. We'll be right back. You look now a half decade later and guys are thinking about, all right, my contract's coming up.

Maybe a teammate that I had here when I first started isn't here anymore. You know, now from a team-building perspective, you're John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan, to your point, for as much as they've been able to find success cycling through quarterbacks, at a certain point, it gets really hard to play that game, especially now that you've got a quarterback that you went to the Super Bowl with. He's young, he's healthier. I would say he's more talented to Jimmy Garoppola when they made the run five, six years ago. And now you are at that crossroads of the second that we stamped this guy,

we are now a different franchise. How you build is different. What you invest in is different. Their defensive guys have been getting older. you know, the leaders that they have at that position, you may not have Drey Greenlaw for the majority, if not all of this season, playing next to Fred Warner,

which puts more pressure on him. Devondre Campbell, who they brought in as a Drake Greenlaw kind of contingency, I don't know if you feel confident that that guy is going to produce at the level that Dre did. You have, you know, a little bit, some more losses on the defensive interior. Think about DeForest Buckner when he left.

Think about Eric Armstrongstead leaving this past off season. It's just different now. It's different now. And if you stamp Brock Purdy, with a 22% of the cap type of contract, you're really going to be hamstrung with your decision making going forward. And I say, I bring that back to Brandon Iuk

to say what I think we'll see from his contract or trade situation, however it plays out, will be an indicator of where this franchise is going, right? I think if you see Brandon I, you get paid, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of what he wants to get paid, you know, maybe they were able to kind of haggle and get him down to $28 million instead of $30 million,

which is like the reported number that Brandon IUC sees as a baseline. Then I think that that says that they might be able to play around a bit to make these contract work, contracts work, and still push forward as the kind of contender we've seen. If we see him get paid AJ Brown money, which is what I'm sure he's probably after, now we've got to have some real hard conversations

about what that means for Debo, what that's going to mean for the long-term health of this offensive line, especially after Trent Williams leaves. There are several hard conversations, I think that branches out with them, and I think a lot of this just comes back to how many, opportunities do you have to do this one last job thing as an NFL franchise before you eventually just have to push the reset button? And that button is almost always closer to being your reality

than a team thinks, especially when they are mid-contention. And that's where they're at right now. Every offseason, we look at preseason odds in the San Francisco 49ers. So the last three, four years are up there in terms of, you know, one of the more, you know, bigger favorites to win the Super Bowl. This year, they're tied with the Kansas City Chiefs for the best odds to win the Super Bowl. and looking back at their playoff success, Los Angeles Rams, the Jukwoski Tart dropped interception.

The year before that, the overthrow from Jimmy Garoppolo, Manuel Sanders. 2022, all their quarterbacks care hurt. 2020, O.T. loss, we just brought up that third and four play. And you talk about the muff punt off that dude's ankle. Like, it feels so close,

but it's getting so far away. I don't know what the couple's therapy analogy is there, but they're just missing this jigsaw puzzle. That's not even their fault. It's just like, timing's off maybe? And with Jimmy Groplo and Brock Purdy, who have been obviously the focal points of the Kyle Shannon offense, he has been phenomenal, arguably best in the league at positioning quarterbacks to punch above their weight. And when you have to say that might not be

enough, when you have arguably the best supporting cast offensively in the league and one of the most talented defensive rosters in the league, you start to ask questions and maybe hard conversations that if a ball does not hit his ankle or that overthrow doesn't happen, you're not even having. You're more in the RAM situation where you're like, hey, we're on borrow time. We won that Super Bowl with Jimmy. We're figuring this stuff out with Brock and like everything's chill. It's the fact that these losses keep stacking and you can find excuses. It's easy to find excuses. It still sucks to get kicked in the teeth. It doesn't matter if it wasn't your fault, right? Like results drive emotions so much more than inputs and putting in the work and we should have been

there. Oh, it's bad luck. blah, blah, when you just keep losing at these critical moments, you start to doubt yourself, you start to change things that maybe shouldn't change, you start to overcorrect. And I don't think the 49ers are going into the season, going to overcorrect and all that kind of stuff, but they are essentially as every year presses. And guys want more money. And Justin Jefferson resets the receiver market with a $35 million average, and you have a very talented receiver, arguably a top five receiver in this league. Now looking for more money, he is going to say, hey, I want $30 million plus.

I want more than what Amon Ross St. Brown got or in the range of what A.J. Brown got. And that forces you to ask, do we commit to Brock pretty long term? How do we continue to build this offense? Is this something that we can continue to do? Do we just keep kicking the can at quarterback and let Kyle Stranahan do what he wants? Like, in this whole conversation, we haven't brought up the Trey Lance thing, where they give up all that capital and they're still able to compete the playoffs. I feel like invincible, yet still like this like kryptonite that comes in the playoffs.

They can't even control in some ways. There isn't a spot with the Niners where I feel like they can be intentional about improving outside of really nailing this decision. Really nailing this decision on how do they pay Brandiuk or if they pay Brandiouk. And then what do you do about Brock Party? Is it a guy that you're going to give the Jared Gough contract to who we're going to talk about when we get to the Lions? The other thing I want to discuss with the 49ers is Trent Williams, 35 years young. You know, Christian McCaffrey getting older. This is, I mean, I don't know.

This Niners team you're going to look back on as one of the more talented teams of the last five years. To never get a Super Bowl, this thing is just going to be the monkey on Chan. What would you do this offseason? What would you look at with Brandon I.

Yuk? Is Brand and I Yuk the priority of a Brock Purdy? Is the supporting cast the priority of a Brock Purdy? And we haven't had this conversation yet. You're new to the ringer. Where do you stand on Brock Pretty?

Hot topic here. Stephen Ruiz does those quarterback rings every single week. People are writing aggregated, reported, you know, articles on this thing. Where do you stand at Brock Purdy? Where do you stand in your court? What do you think you want to do? So to answer the Brock Pretty question first, I'd probably say he's about like maybe 16th, between 16th and 18th in the league.

You know, just looking at the list of starting quarterbacks. I'm going to leave him ahead of rookie quarterbacks that are coming in the league. I know that like Stephen here at the ringer puts basically a lot, almost, well, all the high level, you know, young quarterbacks ahead of where Brock Brady is at right now. I'll give him a little bit more benefit of the doubt. The thing to me is when you're in that, let's say, 13th through 18th range, there is a difference between being a league average quarterback that if they get hot, can play like a top 10 quarterback. I think Gino Smith has been that at times, right, versus being a league average quarterback

that is just a league average quarterback, right? That's Jimmy Garapolo. That could be arguably Brock Perti, and I think that's where I'm at. I think that the ceiling for him is not as soft as it might be. for other young quarterbacks that have found early success, right? Jalen Hurts to me is probably closer to a league average quarterback than a top 10 quarterback. The thing with Jalen Hurts is when he's healthy, when he can run, when he is pushing the ball vertically, and he feels confident in what's going on offensively.

We've seen results that look like a top 10 level quarterback for all of his flaws. I don't know if Brock Prady is there based on talent level. Even though I do think that he can get it done and maybe win you games in the regular season, I don't know if he will ever be the reason why a team like San Francisco loses in the regular season. I can certainly see him being the reason that a team does not win a Super Bowl or win an NFC title game. And I know that San Francisco fans are maybe not comfortable

with thinking of him in that way because he was so successful. His first year is a full-time starter. And I do want to pay some respect to that. I just need to see a little bit more personally when you're playing with the Monstars and your play caller is arguably the best that we have in this league, if not number one, then second behind Andy Reid,

I would like to give a little bit more time to see where he's at if whether or not he can be a top 10 quarterback. For me to answer your latter question or your first question, as far as like, what do you do if you're in San Francisco's position? I think you borrow from Kansas City's blueprint.

When they had their number one receiver in these contract situations, you extend your window by trading that guy and getting the draft capital that you can. That's not to say that Brandon Ayuk is not a top five wide receiver. I love that dude.

I think that he is a top five-hire receiver for sure. And when you look at what he can do for an offense in terms of yards after the catch, constantly getting open, finding separation, being able to work all three levels of the field, field stretcher, intermediate, winning contested catches at times. He can do it all. But if we're talking about windows, the most important thing you can do as an NFL team is make sure that you are set up healthily for the next season. You have to put yourself in that position as often as possible.

possible, or you'll come to regret it, right? As an Eagles fan, I've seen that happen when all the chips were in behind Carson Wentz. And then you look up a season or two after the extension. It's like, oh, we've spent it all. I brought up Cam Newton. I think that the Panthers have been in that position before with quarterbacks, where you may be built improperly, you find a guy that you think you like, you're not building healthily over a long stretch of time, and you look up midway through a quarterback's contract and realize we're all out of moves. And now we've got to step away from the chessboard. I think the smart thing to do is to take whatever draft capital you can get, reinvest in other positions. They're going to have to rebuild this offensive line,

no matter how long they try to kick this can down the row with Chris Forrester. They're going to have to address their defensive interior and their depth of pass rushers. No matter how long Chris Kassarik is there as a defensive line coach. And these are great developers of talent. That does not take away from who they are and their quality of coaches. The fact that we know assistant coaches who have never been coordinators, says a lot about their quality as coaches, right? But I do think that if you're going to extend this window, if you're John Lynch, if you're Kyle Shanahan and you are thinking beyond just a, we have to write the wrongs of the last five years in 2024 and 2025,

you probably want to extend it by looking at what you can get from an IEU. I don't know if that includes Debo Samuel as well, but I do think that that's a big reason why we were even having these conversations about these receivers ahead of the draft this offseason, right? is because you have to start thinking about what it's going to look like three years from now, four years from now. And you don't want to be overcommitted to guys that are, you know, approaching age 30. Don't produce the way they did when they were in their prime or younger.

And now you've committed to these guys. Maybe you've committed to Brock Purdy to some degree as well. And you have no more moves left at the chessboard, like I said. So I think that it might be smartest while maybe more painful right now to maybe look at what you can get if you were to shop a guy like a Brandon I. I think you've swayed me. I think I was, you know, I'm a huge Brian Ayuk fan. I do think he's one of the top five receivers

in the league and my gut reaction right when you say like, should we trade Brandon Yuc is no. But I don't even know necessarily if I would make the connection to like copying the Chief's blueprint just because you're dealing with how somebody with Patrick Mahomes.

Yeah, the best quarterback ever right. Yeah, Andy Reid and Paschma Holmes, it's easier to say like, yeah, we can do it without Tyree Kill. I think with the 49ers, that conversation is harder. Shanahan holds a lot of weight though. And I do feel that

if they didn't have Brian Ayyuk and it was Debo and Joanne Jennings, and they just drafted Ricky Pierce Saul the first round pick out of Florida. I do think that Shanahan would look himself in the mirror and say, I can still make it happen. I can still get this done versus, guaranteed almost.

If they keep Brandiouk, Brock Pry's going to play well, and he's going to be looking for some cheddar. And he's going to be like, hey, guess what? Another big year. I'm looking for that Jared Gough money too. You know, and then that conversation sucks. That's a hard conversation.

It's almost like they have to have the pre-hard conversation before. It gets really, really hard. They're entering muddy territory. Okay, they're entering muddy territory. And if I just said pre-hard, but I don't know if that's helpful on the spot. The thing that I'm thinking with where this guy could go. And there's already been rumors about him reconnecting with his former Arizona state guy, Jane Daniels, which we were talking before the pot.

You're like, that just shows how old Jane Daniels is and how long he was there before he went to LSU. Adam Peters, first year GM, also former assistant GM with the San Francisco 49ers. if you're the 49ers and Peters gives you a call says long time, no talk, how you've been, I'll give you a first. You sprint the card in, right?

You have to take that deal. The Washington commanders could be drafting top five next year, top three next year. We don't know what Jane Taylor's going to be. I don't know if they are offering a first is the thing. I think that's the issue. Otherwise, you probably would have been dealt

ahead of the draft that they really could feel about. I think it's more like second round pick because you're going to have to pay them the money and then they're thinking that conversation again. It's the theme, though, but the hard conversations. I think I'm with you, though. I think even getting high second

round pick and return, avoiding spending that capital, putting yourself in a situation where you're not so strapped when slash if the Brock Purdy conversation happens. And if you get that extra capital and you have that extra space, just having more navigability, like just being able to navigate the situation better with more freedom, I think puts the Niners in a better spot. And I honestly think if they trade brand new today, they're plus 600 to win the Super Bowl. I don't know if those odds change. I don't because it's dependent on Shanahan and pretty working the puppet strings, right? Like, just literally being on Chanahan's strength. So the Niners, man, I think

there's an emotional exhaustion piece. There's like, how many hits can you take? And I think for as long as they have purdy. And one of the more talented rosters, whether it's with Ayuk or not, they're going to be a team that's positioned to go deep in the playoffs. Because they have Shanahan, that offense has been formidable for the last, you know, five plus years. They're not, however, going to be in control of that. You know, they are up to fate. They are up to a

punt. They're up to missing Emmanuel Sanders by a few feet. Dequoski's Tart pick. Like they're going to put themselves in more coin flip situations because they don't have a legitimate top 10 talent or a guy couldn't even touch that points like you were saying before. Bringing us to easy transition,

more toxic relationships. Where are we going here? Miami Dolphins. One of the biggest questions of this offseason that we're just, we're looking at the clock. And I know Tua is too. Is when is he getting his money? He has been by EPA. per dropback by PFF grade, by pass-forating, any stat you want,

one of the most productive quarterbacks in the league. And you know the agent is throwing those numbers out hot and heavy. The caveat is, and Steve Ruiz of the ringer wrote a really good piece late in the season last year, talking about specifically to a talking about low late in the season, road splits late in the season, and under pressure. And I don't have to read down all the APA per dropback stats, but it's just all downhill. As soon as the pressure goes on, whether it's game situation, like the pressure of the moment or obviously legitimate pressure in his lap,

the drop-off is so significant that it hurts them a lot. And it has hurt them in the playoffs. It's hurt them late in the season. And I think it's another situation where maybe even somewhat dissimilar to the Brock Party situation that Brock Party is still, I think, more stable. The range is a little bit tighter. I go back to Mike McDaniel's quote when he was first joining Miami Dolphins

and first starting working with Tuatung of Lowe in 2022. And they're asking about how you work, What are some of the things. He's like, I just need this dude to play football. Like, he just needs to have fun playing the game. And you can tell not just last year, but years before, he's someone that in high pressure situations can get rattled. And that, I think, puts a ceiling on your deep playoff success.

A lot of the quarterbacks we talk about that we never feel like can go the whole way are guys that when the lights are bright and Chris Jones is in your lap, you're not the quarterback you need to be to be successful. And that's hard, right? Tua Tua Tunga Mila is one of the most productive quarterbacks on the opening script and one of the most productive quarterbacks in first halves when he's working with Mike McDaniel and he has Tyrie Kill and he has Jain Walth. It's tough to look that quarterback in the face and see the success that you can't have building leads and all that stuff and say it's not enough?

But do you think there's a situation where this couple's therapy ends and saying, hey, Tua, it's not you, it's me? Or how do you think this ultimately goes? And what would you be, you know, what kind of conversations or what kind of things would you be trying to work through with Tua at this point? I mean, how I ultimately think it goes is that the guy gets the contract that he's after. It is probably what I would say, right? Just because it's the least painful way to go about things. And more often than not, a quarterback in this position is going to get paid what he demands, you know, obviously, you know, within reason at this stage.

To me, the conversation that I think kind of bubbles beneath what you just set for the table here is, is good enough, good enough. you know, I think that it helps that New England is in a rebuilding space. I think it helps that Buffalo is maybe in a retooling more so than rebuilding space. And there is an opportunity for Miami to maybe sneak their way in, you know, or really compete in the AFC East. I think that there's reasons to be encouraged. But to that point, to the point that you're making, that's not the conversation we're having about the dolphins anymore.

No. We know that Mike McDaniel can scheme up in a successful office. offense, basically sight unseen who's playing quarterback, as long as they have a guy that can deliver the ball, right? And that takes nothing away from two either. I get concerned about some of the data that you pulled in terms of how he plays down the stretch, how he plays on the road, how he plays in inclement weather, how he plays on the early down passes are not working as easily as they do, you know, early in the season. I don't know if that guy can create enough on his own that defenses have to honor, right? And in that,

gets us back to the conversations that we're having about some of the other contenders that don't have to have these conversations right now, right? You don't have to worry about Lamar Jackson. You can have conversations about how much playoff success he has or has not had, but you don't have to have the conversation about the quality of quarterback that he is and whether or not you trust that he can get over the hump. I think, I would think that a two-time MVP has done enough. For as much as the detractors may say about him as a player, you should probably feel confident that that caliber of quarterback can when you play off games. To bring more specific numbers to the stats I'm bringing up, this is in Stephen Ruiz's article

from last year. First 15 plays, 0.34 EPA per dropback. The rest of the game, 0.09. That's all of last season. When you look at time to throw, more than 70% of his EPA on dropbacks is coming in the first two seconds. I mean, you are. And that's not realistic quarterback play. Exactly.

It's not. It's the highest in the league by a significant margin. And here's the thing. That's what Mike McDaniel wants. He doesn't want him doing anything else. And that's what Tua wants. Two of wants to just get to his spot, throw it, assume that guy's open.

Ben Solek here at The Ringer has done so many videos on Twitter, on YouTube, talking about when he gets to a spot, he's throwing nearly blind, like almost robotic to a spot because he trusts Mike McDaniel, he trusts Tyra Kill, he trusts Jalen Waddle to get open. That's not realistic quarterback play. And it gets less and less realistic. The deeper in the season you get,

and the more tape comes out, the cheap motion's not this new shiny thing. You're not scoring 70 points on the Broncos anymore, and people have seen it, and they know how to stop it, and things get harder. And when things get harder, it's hard to be a robot.

You have to adapt. You have to change. And I don't think we've seen that from Tuatung of Iloa in his career. And none of this even broaches injury concerns, right? We're having conversations about where his weight is at, how he takes hits, how he lands, right?

This whole jiu-jitsu thing that was a conversation piece last off season. And now we're talking about, hey, he's back sub-225 or around 225 again. He hasn't played like that since he was a rookie. I don't know if, I don't know if we're, leaning on enough data from early in his career to say that that's a good thing. Yeah. Right. Even at his, even at his best and most athletic, I think after the hip injury at Alabama,

you can look at that guy at almost like a point of demarcation between how he was as an athlete between then and now. He doesn't move around the way he used to. And I don't view him as a guy that needs to be outside of the pocket to create. When I think about how he throws a ball, what makes him a good quarterback, a lot of that is kind of predicated on having his feet planted in the pocket. and throwing the ball quickly to avoid contact for one, to make sure he's not pressured for two,

and to keep him out of situations where he has to move around the pocket. This is not the biggest guy. This is not the strongest arm. This is not a Josh Allen, right, where everything can break down, and you know still you'll probably get four to six opportunities in game to get an explosive play outside of structure.

Outside of structure is not two his game. So if on Miami, you really have to have some uncomfortable conversations about whether or not just being a playoff level team is good enough. Does that call for paying this guy the same contract that Trevor got? Maybe not. The same contract that Jared Golf got might be a little bit more of a conversation. And now again, because of the way the Miami has operated with this roster,

and when Mike McDaniel took over this job based on Tua's timeline, you're right now at this point where what are we going to do with the rest of the roster once this guy gets paid? Tyrake Hills making big money. Jalen Waddle's got paid. You pay to a Tonga Vailoa, and now you've really got to look at this offensive line, which they haven't even had an opportunity

to address the way that I think they need to. Regardless of what Taran Arshed says his health is, we all know that the conversation about whether or not he would be able to continue playing football was a real thing. And I don't know if we can trust that that guy's going to be there for 17 games, let alone late into the season when Tua is going to need him most. I don't feel confident about what. where this team is as a contender.

And I think that this is only going to get harder for them after they commit to the guy. And I have a bad feeling that we could land in a similar place here that we saw with Carson was in Philadelphia a few years ago. What percent hold, or how much do you think Mike McDaniel can affect this decision with Tua?

And where do you think he sits right now? Is he all in? Is he like, no, I can make it work. I can do this. He's enough. He said some of the nicest things about Tua talking about the most. accurate quarterback in the league and processing all the stuff.

That's in the media. What do you think he actually feels? It's getting in the feelings here with the therapist here. He's laying down in the bed. They're showing him the ink blots and some of them look like Tua. And he's like, ah, is he scared or how's he feeling about it? Is he like, you know what? I like this guy.

I think I can do it. I don't care. I'll continue to innovate offensively. We still have enough. Jill and Wattle, Tyra Kill. I can make it work with Tua. Is he trying to solve this relationship? Or do you, is there a part of him and maybe he can't bring it up?

But like that just feels like they'd be in a better situation if they started to look for something better. I think in Mike McDaniel's heart of hearts, he probably is happy with Tua. And I take that, I think I make that decision or I say that so confidently because of just what we see from the Shanahan guys and how they think about the quarterback position. They don't ask for transformative players, right? They ask for guys that can just play on time, on structure, or in structure, and on schedule. And that's Tua to a T. I think that he understands that that means that there's more on his plate as a play caller. That's more on Tiree Hill's plate as a He wants that on his place.

Exactly, which I think he's fine with. And I think, you know, when you just talk about like how you want to position yourself as an organization or as a head coach, the second you say that Tua's not good enough, what you're implicitly saying is, I got to be right on the next one. Yeah. And I think that you'd probably rather just ride this out with Tua for as long as you can continue to produce. And then when it's clear that maybe that guy can't get you to the next stage, if that point should come, I would much rather cash it in cash in that. political currency then and say now it's time to get a new guy. I mean, he's definitely in the camp of whatever you guys think works for me. Exactly.

If he makes it work, he's a genius. If he doesn't, it's not his call. It's not his fault. He's just like, hey, I call the place. I make a word where you give me. I'm deferring to the GM and I'll make it work with what I can. Some stats that stand out to close on the Dolphins. Dolphins finished last year 1 and 7 versus playoff teams,

including two bills losses. They played on the road in the cold where we know Tua has struggled. against the Chiefs in the playoffs and lost because they could not beat good football teams last year. If you're a Dolphins fan, you're like, oh, we had to play in KC, you know, next year if we can get a home playoff game, everything will be fine.

That's not how this league works. It's not, it's not. And they did not prove it last year. And Tua played in every single game. Right. They had the most efficient rushing offense in the league by a significant margin, a top 10 rushing offense by efficiency

of the last 10 years. And still not enough. Still not enough to beat playoff teams. Still not enough to win late in games. Still not enough to build big enough leads to where two is not crumbling it. That's where if Mike McDaniels saying, whatever you guys want works for me, if I'm the GM, I'm looking at those numbers and saying, okay, what? I don't know if I don't know.

That's not enough. If I'm giving this guy $300 million. Right. And putting ourselves in a position where we might have to move on from Tyree Kill or Jalen Waddle becomes a trade candidate. And I can't pay Jalen Phillips. They're a star past freshman who got hurt last year. I feel like paying the quarterback and you brought up the Carson Wentz,

I remember that Jared Goff, when the Rams paid Jared Goff and they had to like shell off people. And obviously they made a power move and got Matthew Staffordy and it worked out well for them. But you pay quarterbacks like this. It reminds me a lot of those conversations we're having with a number one overall pick and a number two overall pick. Jared Goff and Carson Wentz and now you're kind of having these conversations. I know Brock Purdy wasn't a number one overall pick, but you're going to have that kind of conversation about are you paying Brock Pretty and are you paying Tuatunga by Loa? Is this enough? Is this enough?

And I think to a tongue of Iloa, what he's shown in terms of how, how he gets rattled under pressure is more concerning. I think he has maybe more talent than what Brock Party has. But, man, I think the conversations are somewhat similar. For two teams that I think are going into this year in the locker rooms, when their hands go in, they're thinking Super Bowl. They're not thinking, oh, man, like maybe a playoff win this year, guys, that would be sick. They're like, hey, we have enough here.

We should be winning a Super Bowl. Definitely. Yeah, I mean, and that's the funny thing about the league, right, is that once you get a quarterback that crosses that line of 15th, 16th, you know, in terms of starter, you're probably better off keeping the guy. You know, the aggregate says it's harder to get a guy that's a top half of the league guy than it is to do almost anything else in the NFL. And then the absolute hardest thing to do is obviously finding the top five guy. You know, so I kind of have a thought that I guess kind of lines up with what Colin Cowher said about Danny Hurley is sometimes you don't want to risk happy for happier.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But eventually you have to have an honest conversation about his happy, happy enough, you know, and if this team misses the playoffs, if something does go wrong with two his health, the way it did two years ago. and earlier in his career, where does that land you if you do pay this guy $275 million? I'll say this, and I want to define success for these relationships,

these teams. The San Francisco 49ers aren't going to miss the playoffs, but like if that, God forbid, that happens, I think drastic changes would have to be happening. But if they win a playoff game,

win two of playoff games, I don't think anything's happening. But the Dolphins, they don't want a playoff game this year and if this two-a-contract doesn't come through before the season. And I think this will be very telling of that. I don't know. I do think that it's a lot easier to say, I don't know if this is where we want to be. And I always come back

to this too. And I don't think we have this conversation enough. How much are you trading capital-wise for Tuatung Vaila if you're one of the 31 other teams? Nothing that will ever equivocate to $250 plus million. Exactly. You're never, there's not a team. I don't, I don't think there's a team in the league that trades two first-round picks for Tuatunga-Lua and the opportunity to pay him 275. With Brockwell, you're not. pretty. I definitely don't think you're getting two first-round picks and the opportunity to pay him whatever the Jared contract was, $215 million or whatever it was. If you're having that conversation as a GM, where my quarterback, who I'm trying to build a Super Bowl contender with is not even worth

two first-round picks on the open market. When you have Josh Allen's, Lamar Jackson's, Patrick Mahomes, I know it's easy. You know, you have to go get a top five, top five. That makes that conversation when we're talking about Brand-I-Yuk. I don't know how dissimilar that conversation is. And is it happy for happier, is it green for greener? I don't know. I think it's frustrating to be so close and not cross the hump because eventually the fans get frustrated. And the fans expect more. And there's maybe the conversations they have to have. Let's switch it up here. Well, first, let's take a break. I want to get in the Bengals. I want to talk lines. I want to talk Eagles, but let's take a break first. The Cincinnati Bengals don't have a, what should we do about this quarterback

problem? Right. Right. I think Joe Burrow, fully healthy, top five quarterback in the league. And we've seen that under pressure, not under pressure, wherever it is. Like he is that guy when he's dialed. But just how healthy is Joe Burrow. There are some quotes from this offseason that are scary about the wrist injury, one that had that shady situation on, he had the wrist brace coming off the plane, but it wasn't reported on the injury report. One of the quotes that has said out to me, this was a difficult injury.

It's been tough several months, but physically it's not the worst injury I've ever had. been through much tougher things physically, and so that's been a positive. I've been able to really lift and continue my off-season program kind of the way it always has been. He's also said, I've tried to talk to guys about this injury like I did with the ACL, but the guys I've talked to have been offensive linemen, defensive linemen, and linebackers that did not share, you know, they don't have the same like expectations for their wrist as obviously a quarterback does, which that kind of scares me too. He has a wrist injury that is so unique that you're not talking about it with quarterbacks and receivers

and other offense players. You're looking at lineman, de lineman, that also scares me. I don't know, man. I think this wrist injury is a little worrisome. The injuries that he's been through over the course of his career, I'm always like nervous or against saying like injury prone. But the health conversation with Joe Burrough stinks. I don't even know necessarily it's something you can work through in therapy.

It's just like an unfortunate situation for the Cincinnati Bengals to be in because the T. Higgins conversation, all of this stuff is connected to like they are in a very singular path as well. and that if Joe Burrow's not healthy, they're not good. And they're going to continue to trot out Zach Taylor. They're going to continue to trot out whoever, as long as they're able to lean on that excuse. Oh, we didn't have Joe Burrow. We didn't have Joe Burrow.

The health conversation, I think, is tough. And I think the Cincinnati Bengals, I would wonder on the aggregate, what percentage of fans are a little worried about it or how worried are fans about it. For me, reading through some of these quotes and knowing that he just started throwing a few months ago, not ready for contact yet. Yeah. That scares me for a quarterback that has not been able to consistently finish. seasons and where your team isn't the Niners. It isn't the Dolphins where you have an offensive play caller that can stand up when your quarterback's down and you have a supporting cast that is like up there.

I love Jamar Chase. I love T. Higgins, but the offensive line is not where the Niners is. The defense is not where the Niners is. This Cincinnati Bengals team needs Burrow to stay healthy, bad. And I don't know how confident we can even be in this wrist injury. I don't either. And then you start looking at the depth chart outside of wide receiver for them, where obviously they have one of the best collections.

a talent in the league there. Like, you look at defensively on what they've lost over the years. And this is still considering the fact that I love Trey Henderson as an edge rusher. Still like Logan Wilson as a linebacker. I don't know if they're in the healthiest position. There's certainly nothing like,

I don't feel anything close to what I felt about them while they were making their run in 2021. Right? Like, we're not anywhere near that conversation right now, which puts more on Joe Burrell's shoulders. The thing I guess that I have a hard time with is how to have this conversation in a way that's not reductive, right?

You kind of mentioned it and not wanting to talk about a guy being injury prone. This is professional football. Guys are hurt. And I don't know how, you know, it's not always a particularly engaging conversation to have to just say, hey, if a guy is healthy. Yeah. Right? Because that carries across for so many teams, especially at this position.

But I do think that as years have gone on, I think that now it looks like maybe they're not going to be able to retain T. Higgins because you know there's your Mar Chase contract is coming. you've lost some things at the running back position. No more Savaget P. Grasin, no more Joe Mixing, right, who's in Houston now. The offensive line, I do think that they've attacked in ways that are smart. I think getting Trent Brown is smart.

Having Orlando Brown is smart. I understand what they are trying to do, having a versatile offensive line that can do a few different things because that's probably the best way to try to protect their quarterback is just to be able to change gears as much as possible and not put him in a position where he's got to take, 45 plus dropbacks every game just for you to feel like you've got an opportunity to win. But that wrist injury does really concern me because it's really just not, I don't know if

this Eastman can do enough to keep them in games. If we were in, if this was Pittsburgh we were talking about, I would feel totally different, right? If Joe Burroughs is a starting quarterback there, I probably feel like, hey man, this team is probably a playoff team no matter what. And with this guy, even if he's only 70 to 80%, they've shown me enough to make me feel confident that they can make a run. Right? Here, I feel like the line between 12 and 5 and 5 and 12 is literally falling upon this guy's wrist. What do you think is the primary reason for why the Cincinnati Bengals defense has not been what it was? I think it was underdiscust how much Luena Rumo and that defense carried that Cincinnati Bengals team to a Super Bowl, not carried, carried's aggressive.

Joe Bro was awesome. But like, I mean, they played so much further above their, you know, above their weight level on that run. Looking at, last year, bottom five in explosive play rate allowed, bottom five and points allowed per drive. And you look at who played snaps for this team last year. Dax Hill, thousand snaps played, he's going to be a starter this year again.

Logan Wilson, thousand snaps played another starter. Mike Hill, 800 snaps played, he's going to be a starter, slot corner, Dermaine Pratt, another guy still there. DJ Turner, going to be there. B.J. Hill, going to be there. Like, they did not add a ton of guys. They had a lot of guys, still play a ton of snaps last year. You can't, like, completely focus it on injuries.

Right. You're the defensive coach. What did you see on tape with the Cincinnati Bengals last year? Would you see with like, just like, is it something, is it something with Anna Rumo? Is it something just like the talent level of the team and then playing above their weight in 2021? And maybe that's a unicorn or lightning in a bottle that maybe they can't recapture with this group. Like, do they need an injection of talent? I'm wondering, because I feel like there were times where you listen to a ring or NFL show, hard to go 10 minutes without Solac saying Big Lou or Steve Ruiz bringing up the Bengals defense and what they're able to do.

now it's kind of an afterthought and they were one of the five worst defenses in the league last year by multiple stats I'm wondering what your perspective is on like why you feel like they maybe fell off I think number one they lost they lost the guy I think that mattered most of that defense in Jesse Bates

and you go you look at the food that's one of the things where it's like not only can you find that in the data but in order to really appreciate the effect a guy has you really have got to watch the all 22 and you see the amount of confusion that was happening and giving up explosive plays in a passing game

playing young guys guys that I think maybe can do something in the league who I think can be something in the league. They've got some guys that corner between a guy like Daxhill that I think can do something in this league. DJ Turner I think can turn into something in this league based on his speed.

They're just not there yet. And I do think that this defense, to be its best, their DBs have to be playing at a high, high level because they're not going to have a 50 plus sack year. You know, they're not going to, you know, they're not going to lead the league in pressure rate, which is okay.

You know, they didn't lead the league in pressure. rate the year they went to the Super Bowl. But what they had was a nice collection of defensive backs that allowed them to change the picture on the back end. They got great turnover luck throughout the year, especially towards the end of the year. And I think that that's just kind of the recipe that they've built for themselves when you look at their roster and their depth chart. I just don't know, unless you have a guy that's like transformative in the way that Jesse Bates is, the way that he looked in Atlanta, I think it kind of proved exactly who Bates is as a player singularly. no matter what scheme you drop him in, they did not replace that level of player,

not to say that it all comes down to one guy, but that's the easiest thing to identify and just the fact that this defense is really not built with high-level pass rush. You're not talking about, you know, a 4-3 defense has got a Fred Warner type in the middle of it, taking away all of these passing lanes

in the middle of the field, even though I do like Logan Wilson and Jermaine Pratt, like I said, they don't have shut down corners on the outside. A lot of this is winning by committee, and I just think that they played so far beneath what the baseline needed to be because they have so much inexperience. I think it can be better this year just based on the amount of reps that some of these guys got,

but it's going to have to be, I think, at that 2021 playoff run level in order for them to have a legitimate shot to return to contention. Jesse Bates is a great call. I think I completely, completely spaced on him being gone and remembering specifically how Bates looked in Atlanta at the start of last season and being a difference maker. Sometimes even like a game winner for the Atlanta Falcons, losing him and replacing him with young guys.

Dax Hill, DJ Turner, guys that Lou can't expect the same things from that you can, a Jesse Bates. And they added Gino Stone for Baltimore Ravens Safety and Free Agency this last year. This guy is super smart player, with smart coming out of Iowa. I think they're going to lean on him

to be a difference maker in the secondary. But you're so smart to bring up the pressure rate. stuff too. In 2021, when the defense was what it was, 34% pressure rate, middle of the back. Last year, 35% pressure rate, a little bit better, middle of the pack. Like, they're not a team that has a Miles Garrett or a Nick Boso or a T.J. Y, someone who's going to, you know, tear it up every single time. They're really, really, really dependent on the player of their defensive backs. And they got younger last year, objectively got younger. I think it

also gets underdustust how good Chidobie Awosier was in 2021. He played over a thousand snaps of that team that year. was amazing, got hurt the following year, has not been the same since. Now he's playing in Tennessee. Now you're leaning on younger guys. It is sometimes that simple. It sucks how quickly the weakest link can kind of crumble on defense.

And part of the reason why defense is so volatile. Every single year, it's one of the things analytics guys continue to talk about is how volatile defense can be. Is that right, PFF guy? I think that is something that the analytics guys discuss. More about that, if you guys would like on a different show. No, you're right in that the conversation is reductive, but I do think among quarterbacks,

let's remove talent, remove talent, where the pressure is on them to like legitimately lead them to as far as they're going to go, Burroughs up there. It's very much up there. And I think you have to bake an injury risk at this point. With the wrist, other stuff that has happened. I mean, to me, I'm worried about Joe Burroughs' health and where it is and just how much the team has to be on his back.

Not just because go back to the beginning of last year where they could not go under center. Because of the injuries, he was still playing through at the start of last year. And then at the end of the year, obviously, has season ending wrist injury. So much is baked into you. You think about Zach Taylor

and how he builds the offense around Joe Burrow and run a lot of shotgun. They run a lot of five wide because of what Joe Burr wants. So much of it's dependent on him being fully healthy, then being able to run the offense through him. Man, I think it's not necessarily a tough question or a tough conversation. It's just a tough reality.

It's a tough reality. It's a reality of the situation, yeah. Reality is Detroit Lions paid Jared Gough a ton of money this offseason. He's someone that I know not everyone is completely high on. There are people who feel he has the ceiling that we've talked about with the Tulang of Iloa, the ceiling that we've talked about with Brock Purdy. If you give him a Mar-Marin-St. Brown, if you give him Jameson,

you give him T.J. Hawkinson, a good offensive line, Panais Sewell, Taylor Decker. We can win with this guy. and then to quote a Patriots player from a few years back telling Mike Giardy, he shits his pants when we pressure him. That's what's happened, right? I mean, Bill Barnwell has sent out phenomenal, phenomenal, like, splits with Jared Goff over the course of his career. But this one stands out to me in the game they lost against San Francisco,

where they had that big lead. Everyone was seeing Jared Goff, Jared Goff, Goff, Goat and Super Bowl, one of the biggest turnarounds in fucking NFL history. In that game, 25 of 33 for 273 at TD. 81.4 QBR when not pressured in that game. When pressured, 0 for 8, zero yards. It is night and day with him, and it has been his entire career. I don't think those stripes are changing.

I don't think those stripes are changing. Yet the Detroit Lions are pot committed. It is a reality that they are committed to him. I think when he was first traded to Detroit as a throwaway in part, his contract with the Matthew Stafford stuff, I don't think they thought they were going to be here. I did not think the Detroit Lions, when they made that trade,

thinking they were going to be paying Jared Gough this money. But when you hear the crowd, Jared Gough, Jared Gough. Hard not to back him. Hard not to back him. He's got to be an all-time vibes guy, just got married, I mean, celebrating. I mean, congratulations.

Are there conversations that can be had here, or is this another situation where it's kind of a tough reality? What can the Detroit Lions really do from here? How do they put themselves in more control of their own destiny with Gough and knowing the ceiling that he has? I think they're an interesting team to talk about on the backs of Cincinnati, because I almost look at them from like an opposite paradigm,

but there's just so much roster health, right? They've made so many good decisions with building up the wide receiver room. We talked about MRI State Brown and his contract extension, great wide receipt, great role player to have high level productive guy. Every report out of Detroit is that the expectation is Jameson Williams is going to be the player that they drafted. Obviously, I think we all know what he is as a speed threat, a guy that can go win on the outside.

If they have that, that changes the dynamic of this offense, that much more, especially if he's available for all 17 games. Because when he was on the field, I think everybody got to feel the difference that he can make as a playmaker, even though he still has some space where he can grow as a detailed route runner, as a ball winner when the ball's in the air, contested catches and the like. To me, the uncomfortable conversation to have is one that I'm not necessarily thrilled about having. It's was the victory lap taken maybe a year too early. Oh, no.

You got the confetti back in the cannon. I think it's very easy if you are GM Brad Holmes after you get highly criticized for the way that you drafted last draft. And these guys come out and they produce for you. They play a bunch of snaps. Jack Campbell was a serviceable linebacker. Jemir Gibbs by the end of the year was a real explosive play threat out of the backfield. That doesn't even touch Sam Leporta, who instantly became one of the best tight ends in the NFL. I think it's easy to puff your chest out.

I think it can be just as easy to look up midway through this year and say, hey, they had two swings in the first round a couple of drafts ago. They walked out with a running back that's not their starter right now, assuming that David Montgomery stays the number one guy and a linebacker that's just serviceable, and they could have went and got another edge rusher. They could have went and added to the defensive backfield. That's where it gets tough,

and now you're leaning on veterans that I think have been decent throughout their careers, but probably are not going to be playing their absolute best ball. Marcus Davenport makes a lot of senses of veteran to bring in based on the way that they want to play, right? And he's got history with Aaron Glenn. That makes all the sense in the world. Don't know if he's going to be the ideal secondary rusher when Aidan Hutchinson himself is not necessarily a lights out pass rusher yet.

So there's a lot of pressure on that room. DJ Reeder was a good pickup for them as a defensive tackle. Still, I don't know if we're going to get enough from their defensive interior to help some of the run defense issues that they've had for as much as I like DJ Reader. And that's a guy that's been in the league for a little while now. You're probably not getting all his best years.

You have Jack Campbell in the middle, who I brought up before. I think it makes sense to have that guy in as a starter, but I think you probably could have drafted that guy in the third round, and he would have been a starter for you. Yeah. Right.

And now you have Carlton Davis out at Corner and Terry and Arnold. Arnold was probably one of my favorite corners, if not my favorite coming out in this draft. but the way that they want to play football on defense is a lot of man coverage, playing physically. That was the Saints model when Aaron Glenn was coaching with Dennis Allen. I know that that's what they're trying to recreate here. There's just a lot of pressure, I think, on the pieces around Jared Gough

and just the infrastructure of the Lions building to kind of incubate him and keep us from having to have conversations about whether or not paying him 200 plus million was the right move to make. I think they did what was right for the culture of their building. I think they did what was right by where they thought they would be as a franchise versus where they actually are right now. I have no qualms with that. I just think that we may look up and be like, hey, man, they kind of squandered an opportunity to really bolster this roster through the draft based on some of the decisions they made a couple years ago. And you're kind of hitting obviously with like just positional value, right?

looking at even if you feel super confident that Jack Campbell is going to be an average to plus starter for you at linebacker. And I think they've hit the high side of variance what Jamir gives in terms of what he's been in the NFL. Attacking more valuable positions is what would maybe have put them in a better position to have sustained success beyond what was last year

in a playoff game that they blew when Jared Goff did not play well under pressure, which has been, again, I can't get over the fact that it's just been his MMO the entire way. Last two years, with Ben Johnson, fifth in 2022 in QBR, when not pressured. These are from Bill Barnwell, 15th, when pressured. First, last year, when not pressured in QBR, and then when pressured, 24th, it is the two sides of the die. The two sides of the coin that I think are going to limit them, specifically with him in pressure. And then it forces Brad Holmes to be perfect.

And I think, if you ask Brad Holmes, like, I have been perfect. I've brought in good guys. I've brought in talent. I like the DJ Reader signing. Alie McNeil has been playing well. If Levi and Wozareke, the other defensive tackle can get healthy, he likes Josh Pascall. He likes Ed & Hutchinson. Kirby Joseph has been good for them.

He's made good moves. He's made good moves. I don't want to take away from that. He's made good moves, especially later on in the draft finding value and guys that can contribute early in their careers. So I don't necessarily want to bake his entire GM tenure down to one first round. As much as it is that it's clear what the missing pieces are. Offensive line has been great.

You've got a good tight in. That's versatile that can do a lot of things for you. You went and found a veteran quarterback that is worth paying. We can quibble about the numbers. The quarterback market just is what it is. You've got a guy that's solid in that position. You've got two young wide receivers that you feel really strongly about. There are so many things that are in place already.

The reason why they could not continue to control the game against San Francisco that they couldn't get stops when they need a stops. It's really as simple as that, man. and the second that they failed, the second in the San Francisco figured out what they wanted to do to that defense, they really didn't have many other answers for them. There's obviously the luck in terms of the bounce ball

that lands and ran out of use hands, but you look at the way that they handled the second half of that game, and it was really clear when Detroit needed to wrestle control back, they did not have the facilities to do so. Some of that falls on Jerogoff and not making throws in key situations. But again, to the point that we were having with Tua and Brock,

the quarterback is just good enough to where you've got to have. have that kind of guy, right? You don't want to risk that. Even if it comes randomly. Exactly. Like, like, how it comes randomly? Right.

Even if it's like, uh, oh, whoa, whoa, what is that? We didn't expect this. Yeah, we're not even getting random shots of brilliance or out of structure mastery that you kind of, you're going to need what, eight of those plays in the playoffs. Like maybe, maybe eight of them. Eight to a dozen, you know, you've got to have. And when your guy can't make that play, that's where it comes back to, there's more pressure now on everything else.

to protect that guy from those situations. I just have questions about whether or not they have enough built around them in terms of defense. We're going to have to get a lot out of Jameson Williams. They're going to have to be healthy up front because to your point, we know what Jared Gough is and is not. It's not. It takes nothing away from who he is as a player.

It's just an acknowledgement of reality. I think it is more hard reality than hard conversation. It's a great relationship, right? You're having a great time. But is it your peak? Is that okay? Yes. And that's the thing is that, is that okay?

If Green Bay takes another step forward and they're the team that's making the NFC title run, I don't think that there's a reason for Detroit to feel any remorse over the decisions they've made, but that might not stop anybody from feeling remorseful, you know, about not being in a position to contend. You know, if Chicago actually did hit, you know, on their court, I'm picking the number one quarterback in this draft, and they're able to compete for a playoff spot early in his tenure. I don't think that Detroit should feel bad about that.

But that means now that the order of importance in that division is changed again. And it once again leaves Detroit in a position where they're not in control of their destiny. And when you think about all these young quarterbacks that are around the rest of the division, you may look up in two years and say, hey, everybody's in a healthier spot than we are now. Really, by no false of our own, it's just kind of the way that the dies cast, right? So we can look up and be like, hey, I think that you pointed out the quote from the office, right? Like the thing about the good old days is I wish somebody would tell when we had them, you know, while it's going on. This might be that situation, you know.

This might be that situation for Detroit. And I think that it can be really difficult to look up in a couple years and say like, hey, the best of this window was making an NFC title run. And it's Andy at the end of the office. Final episode, he's like, I wish I knew I was in the good old days when I was actually in them or we were in them when we actually in them. And I think the lions might have been in them. Right. It might have been in them. And now the expectation, the bar is high, high as hell.

And I still feel like, and we've asked this question, I feel like with every team we've brought up, is it enough, they're good, but is it good enough? Is it good enough to get over this hump? And are there changes that they need to make? Hard conversations going, not, this isn't a awful, toxic, horrible relationship like we're talking about with some of those other teams at the top.

These are like, hey, we're having fun. This is a good time. You're nice to my mom. You're okay with me. I like hanging out with you. But sometimes we're in line for ice cream. and I don't know if I can stand you, and I don't know if I can be with you. And you get a little upset.

And you're like, maybe I got to get something else here. And it's hard. It's hard. But I think with Detroit, the vibes are still great. It's a great vibes relationship. You're wearing Dan Campbell jersey's in the draft room. Brad Holmes doesn't think he can miss. Gough's getting married, getting his contract.

Mon Ross St. Brown's getting paid. Everyone, I feel like that locker room is an 11 out of 10%. 100%. I wonder if they're like, they're not at the San Francisco 49er state. Right? We're like, you talked about the San Francisco 49ers back in 2019. They lost Super Bowl of the Chiefs.

Like, man, sucks, but we're building something. The Lions probably feel that way right now. Right. But what exactly are they building? What is getting better outside of maintaining things? And Ben Johnson, thank God, still staying there. I still think it doesn't get talked about enough. The first year with Jared Goff, Anthony Lynn was offensive coordinator, and he was

horrible. What Ben Johnson has been able to do offensively for the Lions. And the longer he stays there, the more the coaches under him will be able to, if they do promote from within, probably replace some of the energy that he was bringing. But still, I worry about what life after Ben Johnson looks like,

which I thought we were going to have to ask that question this offseason. He chooses not to go to Washington, which says all you need to say about Washington, really. Last two teams, both in the MC East, one of them, your favorite, the Eagles.

We'll do that when we get back. I wasn't sure if we were going to put the Eagles on this list, but I wrote this quote when we were talking through the pod. You're like, it's Siriani. It's Jalen Hertz. It's Kellynne Moore.

Office coordinator, head coach, quarterback. They are going to be the ones that have to drive this forward. Yes, it's a talented roster. Yes, you have AJ Brown, Devonthe Smith, Lane Johnson. It's a very, very talented roster. But those are the three that knock.

Those are the ones who are going to drive this team from being contenders, being in the mix, in the hunt, to actually being deep playoff competitive year after year. Do you think that's enough? Have they shown, have they beaten the, we are those guys. We are those guys allegations.

Because Kelle Moore's bouncing around the league for a little bit. Siriani, that seats warm, if not kind of hot. Big Dom has got more job security in Philadelphia than maybe Nick Siriani does. And with Jalen Hurts, there are conversations about the injuries. There's also conversations about how he plays when the lights are bright. Now, we can all go back to that Super Bowl. Oh, my God. Wow, how he played.

That was crazy. You got to see more of that. If the Eagles are going to be deep playoff competitive, you have to see more of that. To me, like, and this comes back to the conversation we had last week, actually, about how we were ranking head coaches. So I'm probably going to parrot some of the things that I was saying then about Nick Geriani.

I can't say, it's one of those things where, like, you don't want to say that it means anything, but it also doesn't mean nothing, that a team brings in somebody they interviewed for the job that you had, would have probably been comfortable hiring this guy had you not accepted the job or not been number one on the list. And that guy gets brought in to take away the. thing that you had most control over, you know, when you were hired. Meaning, like, I don't know if it speaks well of Nick Siriani and his place in an organization now if he's not still the one who's making the decisions in terms of what's going on

a play calling menu. What are we doing in certain situations? That doesn't mean that he has no, that doesn't mean that he has no control over that, right? I do think that that will always be a collaborative process as long as Nick Siriani is the head coach. But in order for this thing to happen properly and not turn into what it was last year, I do think that Kevin Moore has got to come in and maybe fix some of the things that were leaky about this scheme last year in terms of being blitzed all the time and not having an answer for it. And having to suss out whether or not that was an offensive scheme thing or Jalen

Hertz struggles with identifying where to go with the football when he's pressured thing. So that's one question that's got to be answered. And if it's not answered, even if it was 100% the fault of Kellen Moore's scheme, the person who has to wear that is going to be Nick Siriani. And then the next guy in line to where that is going to be Jalen Hertz. And I think that those two guys

are probably in more of a tenuous position than you could have ever convinced me they were when they were 10 and O or whatever, or 10 and 1 and winning all these close games in the middle of the season before things kind of fell apart, right? And I think that the hard conversation

to have with them is, A, is Jalen Hertz good enough, which is just going to be something and that's going to dog them for probably as long as he's a starting quarterback there. And for as much as I like him, and I think that he is that top half. They're having that conversation about that press con. Exactly. It never leaves you.

Yeah, never leaves you. When you don't win the biggest one, when you were in position to win the big one and you don't, despite the fact that it's up against maybe the best quarterback we've ever, who's ever walked to earth, you're going to have to answer that question, especially when you have flame out in the following year, when you weren't good the year before. He does have to show and prove that this was not just a flashed, the pan thing, right? And I think a lot of that is going to come down to him being healthy, being able to use his legs more because that's what makes this offense dynamic and being

smarter with the ball when he's blessed, right, not being so predictable than the decisions that he makes, spreading the ball around more, getting more people involved, creating more yards after catch opportunities for guys if you are checking the ball down. These are things that have been an issue for him throughout his career that has to be addressed. And you bring in Kellan Moore to fix that problem. It just places a hyper-focus on. on the fact that this is the issue, and if it's not instantly addressed, the seat only gets hotter

for all parties involved. Especially in Philly. Especially in Philly. The offense, they went one in seven down the stretch. They started that season off 11 and O, down the stretch went one and seven, including a loss, obviously, in the wild card. Their only win over the New York Giants.

Over that time, offense and points per game was still top 10. The real drop-off, and this is where I want to ask you what exactly the upgrade is with Vic Fangio coming in, the new defense coordinator, replacing Sean Desai, and whatever that combination of Matt Patricia was, whatever was going on there.

This team allowed three points per drive over that stretch of games when they started to fall off. The worst in the league over that stretch, and I don't think I've ever seen a three in that spot, at least over that large of a sample size, over the last half of the season, it was horrible. The defense was horrible.

How much better does Fangio make this defense with a lot of the same cast, right? A lot of the same people. And is there anything to the defense maybe being, you know, I think it's easier to blame Siriani. It's easier to blame Jalen Hurts. I think it's more, it's sexier to get that conversation's better on first take. It's a better A block than being like,

are these pieces on defense something that we need to replace? Is should there, what percentage of the blame are you putting on this defense? And I guess, to go back to the first part of this, do you think Vig Fangio coming in is going to, you know, legitimately bring this thing up. I think that I would say not just as a fan. Right. I guess it, well, and I think that the argument there is that you're going,

you brought the guy in that really knows the defense. They've been chasing the ghost of this scheme for the last few years now. Vig Fadio was a consultant the year that they make the run to the Super Bowl. You bring in Sean DeSai because he worked with Vic Fangio when it was, when that scheme was at its best in Chicago. There's a lot of great quotes about, you know, Desai's a great teacher. He knows the ball.

He knows the game well. He knows the scheme well, studies it relentlessly. I do think there are maybe some issues in getting that message across with players. And that's part of why it didn't work. Matt Patricia comes in. It was just absolutely just the worst possible decision. And then you bring in, I think you just bring in Vic Fangio to be a stabilizing force. I don't think that they ever have to try to chase what it was two years ago in terms of sacrate through the roof.

Right. And you're probably just not going to get that on variance alone. teams don't reach those kind of heights. And I do think that they got a lot of cheap sacks that I think we kind of brushed over during the run and we can look back on now and be like, they played some not so great quarterbacks. They had control of the game script

in a way that you probably just don't often see in the NFL and that help contribute to them being able to kind of peel their ears back and go after the quarterback. That's not going to exist again, but I think the argument is that you're not going to give up as much explosive plays in the past and run game. You'll have a little bit more detail in terms of game planning the high-level players

that you're going to see in the NFC, right, in terms of skill position. Stabilizing force. Exactly. You just want to raise that water level up to just a higher baseline, right? So you're just not so concerned that you're going to score 35 and give up 45. And I think that that probably is addressed. They made a lot of investment at the defensive back position in the draft.

I do think that that's going to help. Having Chonsie Gardner-Johnson back to kind of toggle between nickel and safety is going to help stabilize them there. And I think that if Avanti Maddox is a player that they want them to be, if Darius Slay can get one more year being a good outside corner, that will go a long way for them. They have a lot of trust and read Blankenship. There are a lot of pieces, I think, that exists in the defensive backfield

that were an issue last year that I think has been addressed now or in theory has been addressed, where that might eliminate that issue. I don't think that that's going to be the same kind of barrier to them contending the way it was last year. First round pick, Quinyon Mitchell, Toledo cornerback. He might not even start. And same with Cooper Gene.

Second round quarterback out of Iowa. A lot of people liked him as a first round pick. Yep. I know, listen to Philly Special with Shield Capadia. There's a lot of talk about Isaiah Rogers. Right. They brought in who they really like as well. I'm interested to see how the secondary performs. I'm also interested to see how Big Don performs with the new title.

I don't know if you guys saw this. He's now in charge of game day coaching operations. According to Jeff McLean, this tweet a few weeks. back from the Inquirer saying the change into Sanjo's title, that's Big Dom, and Game Day duties was likely meant to prevent the league from being able to discipline him. Should there be another episode

on the sideline with his involvement? The Eagles are already looking at Dom as a force and they're saying, hey, let's change his title up just in case he does get into this other scruff and does like just body another player? I can't believe they're already like, yeah, we might have to watch this guy. How do we protect him?

Do you think this is something Big Dom was like, hey, man, I need some protection out there. I'm going to be getting a little chippy or they're like, you know what, we kind of want this dog on the sideline every single week no matter what. So just layering in these protections, that's just crazy to me. Having the conversation, there are so many references I can make to protection in this context that I won't. But I am glad he's going to be on the sideline now in case another player wants to stick a finger in his face. Just to see how that plays out. So good.

All right, cowboys, last but not least. Or are they? Or are they? The Cowboys, man. Any more bits for our octogenarian here? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think Dallas Cowboys, for me, they're in a tough spot. I think they're in a

ultimatum year where she comes in. She's like, I need a ring or it's over. And I think the person saying I need a ring is Jerry. Jerry's 81 now. He's more than 20 years older than every other GM in the league. His son, Stephen Jones, if he took over tomorrow, would be the second oldest GM in the league. Like, they're old. Time is ticking. There's a body clock to this, right? There's a body clocked this. Eventually, you got to keep going, right? I can't get over the fact that the first thing Jerry Jones did as the GM of the Dallas Cowboys was draft Troy Aikman and had all the success that came after that. Since then, the Dallas Cowboys have not made it through the divisional round. They've not. They've not made it through the division around. Since Aikman,

they need something. And Dak Prescott last year played at a near MVP level, arguably an MVP level. He's on a contract year. Zach Martin's on a contract year. I'd argue this entire team is on a contract year. Jerry Jones, in between scribbles and, you know, giving out their draft plans for which running back they like on day two has just kept saying all in, like a wind-up doll, like Woody and Toy Story, just saying all in, all in, all in.

They're all in, because I do think that they're going for a hard reset after this year if not just win a playoff game, not just make the playoffs, not just win a playoff game, they have to, I think, get to the NFC championship, or Jerry Jones is pulling his hair out and saying, I can't do this anymore, and I'm moving on, and I'm, I got to do something else. And I think the

The Dack Prescott contract makes that interesting with the no trade clause and all that kind of stuff. Dallas is an interesting spot where if they don't have significant success, I think this is definitely a hard reason. I implore anybody to correct me if I'm wrong. I have never once in any sporting context, least of all the NFL, have a situation laid out for me the way you just did in terms of everybody being on a one-year deal. And then we come back a year later and it's like, they did it. Everybody delivered on the promises. They won enough games. quarterback continues to play out of his mind, head coach figured out whatever issues they had.

They don't choke it away in a big game, in a big situation. It's not happening. It just doesn't work like that. Ultimatums never pan out either. Anytime they're like, yeah, I need a ring by this day. It's honestly there's some underlying things. There's a reason it hasn't happened yet. And then you think about just the confluence of events.

Not only does Jerry want to win right now, you have a quarterback that is asking to reset the market more likely than not. You're going to have to pay Micah Parsons market setting money more likely than not. So even in an ideal situation, let's say they don't make a Super Bowl run, but they do win in the divisional round and get to an FD title game. Maybe you lose to a Green Bay. Maybe you lose to a San Francisco if they make another run, whatever the case may be. And now you look up and you've got to pay these guys all this money. Are we saying that this is all just for a one-year run?

We're going to be right back here again eventually, right? And I don't think, again, to roster health, this was Cincinnati. This is a conversation with Detroit. I think that this is a conversation that can easily come up with Philadelphia if they don't deliver soon. And that number for Jalen Hertz gets more and more painful over time where he tries to come back to the table and cash in again. You start looking at that depth chart, man. And there's not as much there as you would like to believe for. And that's acknowledging the fact that Dallas has been known to draft well.

I think that they've navigated the Tony Romo to Dach Prescott era seamlessly to continue to be. a plucky to near contending team. You just haven't gotten over that hump. And this team has made more emblematic of this than anybody else in the league. That quarterback is too good to let walk. But I don't know if that roster is in a position to pay a guy $60 million and stay in contention. They brought Zieg back. I mean, I mean, this is a lot.

That says a lot. I mean, this is a last run. This is, you know, you brought up, I think, the analogy of like one last job. Right. You know, you're bringing, Zeeks coming in is the, it's the one last job. I know you've been out of it. You're not the same, but like, we're going to bring you. He's going to have like one, like third and one big player.

You were laying out the worst expendables ever. The worst expendables ever. I think, and you say they've drafted well, and I think they have. CD Lamb fell into their laugh. 100%. And Dak Prescott was a fourth round big. I do, I'm not saying, obviously it takes talent to still draft those guys. It's still a decision when it comes down to it.

But they have not like had a lot of, admittedly had a lot of like high risk decisions at the top of the draft that they've completely like knocked out of the park. It's stuff that has fallen in their lap with Michael Parsons too. Yeah, Michael Parsons too. I'm, you know, you look at, I wonder if the Dallas Cowboys miss the playoffs, which I don't think is, I think right now they're, you know, their favorites to make the playoffs. I think they're over under set like 10 or 11 wins.

They're a team that's expected to make the playoffs given the talent roster, Jack Prescott, one of the, you know, top quarterbacks in the league. This team misses the playoffs. Jerry Jones is taking a blow torch to this thing. 100%. The whole thing's gone. Zeke's on a one-year deal. Dax on a one-year deal,

DeMarcus Lawrence is on a one-year deal. Mike McCarthy's seat is hot. I mean, there's nowhere you can look outside of Michael Parsons, maybe where you feel like this guy should still be part of the fresh. We brought Mike Zimmer on DC. I mean, this whole thing is just like the old, you know, expendables 10. It's like if expendables made like another 20 of them, and all the same cast.

I worry that the expression next year it's been all in this offseason and it's gonna be all out. Yeah. All out next off season. Completely flush. Yeah. Which how, where did it all go wrong?

Where did it all go wrong? How did they botch this? Is it just a couple of those weird trick plays where Zee played center and just some things didn't go their way? Was it coaching decisions? Was it hiring decisions? Was it Mike McCarthy spending too much time at the PFF offices? Where was it?

Where did we really go wrong? The funny thing is that ultimately I think that they are going to, to serve a similar place to San Francisco stranglehold of the NFC that San Francisco is going to play in Kansas City stranglehold on the NFL? Yeah. You just bump into the wrong team at the wrong time. Fair, fair. You can look at, you look at that roster and the 49ers teams that they've lost,

so you look at this Packers team that they just lost to, and you can say, hey, if you just stack up name for name when guys are healthy, they can contend with anybody. The issue is that they keep running into one of the best teams and one of the best teams in their conference or all their guys are hurt. The Packers game was just as much about Dan Quinn not having an answer for Green Bay's run game and two tight-in sets as it was the fact that they just didn't have enough bodies available to keep pace with that team, to keep pace with the Packers team that was probably peaking

at the right time. I just think it's entirely possible that things have gone right more than wrong for Dallas. I think you should be more happy than upset if you're a Cowboys fan. No way. You're crazy. No way. You're not going to be more happy than upset. If you were a Cowboys fan...

If you can separate the idea of being a Cowboys fan from this, I do think you probably are more happy than upset. I think you're in a pit of misery if you're a Cowboys fan. You're not happy with this. There's no way. You are like America's team. The pressure of being a Cowboys fan probably sucks. I'm a Raiders fan.

When I say it, they're like, yeah, I've been terrible for the last 20 years. No one cares about you. It's kind of nice. You know, and so you're rolling to everything, nothing matters. You say a Cowboys fan, everyone hates you, And you suck. You've never made it past the divisional round. For like, last, I do think that I don't think, I don't think you can be happy here.

I don't think you can be happy here. What I would warn against is the people who lay out the ultimatums are never actually looking over the cliff. True, true. You're never actually looking at what you're looking at on the other side of things, right? And I do think that to the point that you made, I think the fair point you made about then maybe being able to get guys in the draft that were at positions where they shouldn't have been available. Dak Prescott, Michael Parsons, Trevon Diggs, you could probably make the argument as well. CD Lamb, you can make the argument for as well.

There's going, if you do rip the Band-Aid off of this thing, there's no way that you're not looking at like a three to five-year rebuild. Especially if deck is the first guy that's out. That's what happens when you go all in. I mean, if you've seen Rounders with Matt Damon, you go all in, dude, you go to stacks of high society. It's hard to come back. I think that's where they've been. That's where they position themselves with how they've handled the DAC contract, without how they've handled CD Lamb.

It didn't have to be this way. They could have been, had more foresight here and extended DAC earlier, extended MIC earlier, extended SCD earlier. Like, you could always push the stuff down the road. Detroit's not doing what they've done with Goff and Amara Ross St. Brown and Penae Sewell. And you can't say in the same vein

that Dallas can't do what they could do. Right. In terms of getting the Micahe-Parsing contract done, getting CD-LAM done last year, getting Dak-Pres got done again because he consistently positions you as a team that can go deep in the playoffs because of he's that good. He's better than Jared Gough.

Of the teams on this list, he's the best quarterback we have. By far. Maybe not Joe Burrow. Maybe not Joe Burrow, but I would say everybody else that, and with Joe Burrow, what's a conversation? It's so clearly on that guy's shoulder because he is a top five player that we just need him on the field. If he's not on the field, we're not good enough to win anyways.

Dax's in a similar position. They dug their own grave. They've done their own grave by not, by being all in this year, whatever the that dumbass thing is. Jerry Jones is drawing ink plots and all he sees is Troy Aikman. Like, he can't get past the past. I do think the Dallas Cowboys have made their bed. They're lying in it, and the dirt's coming on now.

The Freudian slip from Austin saying dug their own grave is he consistently tries to stuff Jerry Jones in a one. There's, this is what I'll say. This is couple's therapy where it's your last visit and you're excited to stop paying the therapist, however much it costs every week, because it's open. You're not going into here and thinking you can unclog this. This is over, right? The Dallas Cowboys, odds are, are going to have some all-time collapse either in the wild cut round with a divisional round, and it's going to end the same way it has the last few years,

and they're going to go back to the drawing board. A drawing board that they have not been to in a long time. Like you said, the Tony Romo, the DAC transition. This could be one of the all-time Cowboys off-season if we get, and where are we talking about next off-season? It could be one of the more all-time off-seasons for the Cowboys that we've seen if slash win, this does not go as high as it should be. Man, I'm excited we got on the couch today.

And we work through some things. I don't think you get on the couch in couples therapy. I think it's more of a, it's more of like a sitting on opposite chairs thing. The most couples therapy thing that comes to mind is the Mr. and Mrs. Smith scenes, where they're sitting there and they're kind of talking through it. That's how I imagine some of this. I don't know if that helps you guys at home. De Yonseil, this has been fantastic.

First time pying together at the Ringer. I think we probably a few times at PFF. But in person, in L.A., with Isaiah Blankley, let's go. Our June around Gapal and Connor Nevins with some supervisions over the top. Keep tuning in to the Ringer Annabell Show through June, through July, through August, into September. Always got good content here coming at the Ringer. Also check us out on the ringer. Until next time, Austin Gail, Diapal.