The Ringer NFL Show - Derek Carr Has a New Home, Lamar Is Winning the PR Battle, and Mike McCarthy’s Comments | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Derek Carr has agreed to a deal with the Saints for four years and approximately $150 million. Now that Carr has signed, what’s the ripple effect for the Jets, and how does Aaron Rodgers’s future tie into it all? Lamar Jackson and the Ravens still haven’t agreed on a deal, which could possibly lead to the team giving him the non-exclusive franchise tag. Ben doesn’t think Lamar will be a Raven next season if that’s the case. Plus, Sheil wonders what the heck Cowboys coach Mike McCarthy is talking about. Hosts: Ben Solak and Sheil Kapadia Producer: Cliff Augustin Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Extra Point Take it. Chiaa Pottia joined by Ben Solac and Ace producer. Cliff Augustine on the Ringer NFL feed. The combine is over. The start of the new league year is a week away. Free agency starts next week. Moves are already happening. Derek Carr this morning.

We're going to get into that. Things are about to heat up. Cliffs. Cliffs got a monitor like Twitter and news for us during the show. If there's a trade or something, we haven't had a chance to react to something that happens while we're recording. So I think maybe that can happen today

for the first time, Benjamin. Yeah, I, once Twitter started breaking down, I don't know if you saw this morning, but they were like, I was trying to share a link to a Combine article and it wasn't working and you can't log into Twitter on desktop. And once I saw this, I was like, oh, yeah, something's happening today.

Because all you need is just a throng of enraged journalists. You can't embed tweets in their articles because I can't get on Twitter.com. Twitter is breaking. Something is happening today. We'll get the news. one way or another, maybe the mailman will drive by here by my window and let me know if something

big happens. But let's get to it. We each have three takes. I've got the extra point today. We got to start with the big news. Derek Carr finds a home with the New Orleans Saints, according to NFL network. It's a four-year deal, $150 million, $150 million, $100 million in total guarantees, 70, fully guaranteed 60 at signing and another $10 million in year three that vets after year one. Benjamin Solek, we both have Derek Cartakes. You lead us off. Your reaction, your take on this move by the Saints. The take is this. This season's award for most themselves, most on brand. This season's award for congratulations. I know what you are. I can sit my watch to you. You're consistent goes to the New Orleans Saints. I mean, from the day there was the rumor that like back

when Carr was still a raider and there was still the chance to trade for him from the day there was that first report was it was like mid-February that all the Saints are interested in Derek Carr. Didn't it feel like like the middlingness of Derek Carr, the I'm maybe the 12th best quarterback in the league of Derek Carr was just destined for the New Orleans Saints whose entire team building since the end of the Drew Brees era has been predicated on the idea of like if we just get enough solid to good pieces in the building

will win a Super Bowl which I don't know how again like I'm going to try to go this whole rant this whole tirade that's what's going to end up being let's be honest without saying the C word without saying CAP because anytime you say CAPE talking about the Saints CAPS face and their money situation

all Saints fans are like ho ho ho look at another mad sports rider who doesn't know how we create cap I don't care about the cap. I don't care about the C word. Toronto Armstead left. Johnson left. Marcus Williams left.

Drew Brees left. Ever heard of him? DeMario Davis is a year older. Cameron Jordan is a year older. Offensive lines have been banged up multiple seasons. Michael Thomas is going to be cut. Not going to say the C word, but just in terms of how they structured his contract,

they made it so he is being cut. Alvin Camara is currently enduring a legal situation that may affect his availability for football games. There is not enough talent in New Orleans to justify saying if we plug and chuckle quarterback in here, we're fine. That was true a couple of years ago. It has become increasingly less true. And even if you want to argue, like, oh, we were around 500 last year, yeah, you were

doing that with, like, Dalton playing pretty well, like if car plays a little bit better, then we get over the hump, like, okay, but what does that do for anything? one. What does it benefit you to go 10 and 7 instead of 9 and 8? What does it benefit you to go first in the NFC South and out in the first round of the playoffs instead of just missing the playoffs? Like that's not really the goal or at least I don't think it should be for rebuilding teams for teams without playoff identities. Then saying like right let's try to get over the hump, we're trying to make the playoffs. Like that's a legitimate goal to like test your building. Test your three year arc, your five year arc. Are we on the track we expected to be? The Saints aren't on a track. They're not on a like a three year vision, a five year vision.

They just seem desperate to scramble for every possible accolade that it's like they think like whoever wins the most games over a 10 year period gets a trophy. You don't! There's nothing to aim for here. The investment in car four-year deal and they're going to structure it such that he comes in under the CAP word and it makes it okay. That's all well and good. I'm very glad that they're able to do these machinations. I don't see how this benefits the team.

I don't see how the Saints are a better franchise long. term for signing a quarterback over 30 who we know who he is. He's a fringe top 10 guy with everything perfect around him, 2016 season. He can have a really, really peak season. That was a long time ago. And you don't have that everything perfect. You don't have those players. The last first round quarterback drafted by the New Orleans Saints. Shield, you know who it was? I saw you tweet it earlier today and I can't remember who it was. It was a long time ago. It was in 1971, which I know I'm young, but ain't nobody around here, been around 1971. okay, this isn't like a me thing.

Thank you for not making an old joke at my expense that is noted for the future arguments we'll have. 1971, it was Archie Manning. That dude's kids have retired. That dude's grandson's going to be in the league in two years. That was the last in the Saints took a first round quarterback, which like it's good to be able to find starting quarterbacks outside of the first round. But this team is so desperately in need of a reset.

It could not possibly be more apparent that they are clinging to the vestiges of hope that were taken from them in 2018, 2017, whenever the Nicolrobe Coleman play happened. They are just stuck under that gun and they have to get out from under it. They have to reset. Unsurprisingly, they aren't. Yeah, I think your first take, what was the right one? This is who they are. They don't operate in the interest of what can we do to make ourselves a championship, caliber Super Bowl team, or at least they're not doing that right now. With Peyton and Breeze,

you were in that mix pretty much every year. They operate now under the question of how can we make the playoffs this year. How can we be competitive this year? I mean, that's really what the moves of the last two, three years have told us about the Saints. So I wonder how Saints fans like feel about this. If you're a listener, if you're a Saints fan, I would like to hear from you because on one hand, like you said, you're not going to win a Super Bowl with this group. I mean, with Derek Carr, with the veterans you mentioned, they're getting older with the core, with everything about the town. The coaching, by the way, was not good last year. That's a huge issue for this team. Like, if you told me they still had Sean Payton and you make this move, I would say, okay, maybe the ceiling's

a little bit higher and he can figure it out. You don't have Sean Payton anymore. You have Dennis Allen. So if you're a Saints fan, are you going, this sucks. Let's do what Ben says. Let's just do a huge reset. Let's get our cap in order. Let's accumulate some draft capital. Let's take a swing on a young quarterback in the next couple of years. And let's try to build our next stretch of sustained success. Or do you say, you know what? On Sundays next year, when I sit down at 1 o'clock,

team's probably going to be pretty competitive. Defense will probably be above average, at least. You have a competent quarterback, like you said, maybe like the 12th best quarterback in the NFL. You have Chris Olavé. Maybe your offensive line is a little bit healthier. Hey, the NFC South is, is wide open.

It's going to be around Christmas time. You're having family over to watch a Saints game. That game most likely is at least going to have some playoff placations for you. We're in a bad spot. Around Christmas time. Yeah. So as a fan, like we've had this argument before where I've said there actually is some value in that to making the experience worthwhile for the even if you are fans say,

my team has no chance of winning a title. But you know what? On three hours, it's not misery. It's kind of fun to watch this team. Now, I wouldn't describe Derek Carr as a quote-unquote fun quarterback. He's kind of like, eh, okay, this week it's good. Next week it's not good. But that's how the Saints operates.

I don't know. How do you think Saints fans, like, feel about this move? Are they excited? Are they disappointed? Do they feel like you? Do they feel like I described? What do you think? I think like Saints fans are probably happy because their quarterback is better today than it was yesterday.

I'm like, I'm completely and totally fine with that. whenever you bring it up I want to drives me insane when you bring it up it's like the third time we've done this it doesn't say in the description

of ringer NFL show extra point taken Ben and she'll hop on the mic every Monday to talk about how the average fan feels about things no we're here to be like this is how football should go

like this is like you know dare I say expert analysis I disagree with that there's room to talk about the fan experience we don't have to get on our high horse

and say we can't remember what it's like to be a fan here, and we can only talk about roster building and GMing and all that. I mean, I think there's a conversation to be had about whether there's value in building a team that is just kind of, you know, sort of in the mix every year. But when fan experience belies good team building, when it is being used as a crutch, as an obfuscation to what really should be done to manage the team, to give the city of New Orleans what it so richly deserves a Super Bowl championship,

then I'm now like the me like the hierarchy is off right the prioritization is off I like because like like let's let's like let's like let's do like a bear's conversation like a falcons conversation right like okay the bears are bad they're horrible but Justin Fields is fun to watch and so like while everything is very depressing for you bears fans right now and while the the good team building approach is to like probably sell a bunch of resources and accumulate a ton of picks and accumulate a ton of capital like while that's the approach that it's a good team building approach but it's not very enjoyable so just just Pay attention to Justin Fields being very fast. This is cool. Watch this. This is exciting. That to me makes sense. The good team building approach for the Saints right now was to just like let James be James on a relatively cheap contract and just like, don't spend

any money. Don't push any money into future years, which, let's remember, they had to restructure contracts to make enough room to get Derek Carr. Again, shoot, I said the cap thing. Frick, I said I wasn't going to say it. But anyway, so they did the restructure thing. And now it's like, all right, so we can get the best possible team around Derek car. That to me isn't fun.

Like that, like, it might be cool to be a little bit more competitive than you were, and I understand and respect that approach, but like you said, like it's not like cars a great time. So they are sacrificing good team building, honest, appropriate team building, on the altar of, again, maybe going 11 and 6 and maybe winning in the wild card round.

That's best case scenario. 11 is, now you're getting a little higher than I would even go. Yeah, I mean, to be clear, I'm talking about the fan thing, because I don't, there's no defense for like these moves from a team building. If you are trying to build a team that's going to compete for Super Bowl, there really is no defense to operate the way the saints are operating once Drew Brees and Sean Payton left. It makes absolutely no sense.

I would not have made this move. Like if you're getting Derek Carr on a discount or something, maybe this is not a discount. I mean, this is basically like the deal that Kurt Cousin signed with the Vikings to restructure last year where you're committing two years fully guaranteed basically for Derek Carr to be quarterback. To me, that doesn't, you know, that doesn't get you anywhere. That's not what you would want to do. You would want to reset, like you mentioned. You have some veterans, honestly, that you could probably trade and maybe get some draft capital for who are good players who could help contending teams. So yeah, you could go that way. And we've seen like rebuilds don't necessarily

take as long as we sometimes think they take, you know, they could be two years and maybe they found a quarterback and they're back in the mix a little bit. But that's not how they're going to operate. They got a draft one or to find one. And Ian book doesn't count. Yeah, they don't try. Yeah, they don't try. I don't know. The state's fans hit us up. Let let us know how you feel about the move, how you feel about the team. I think they're just going to be stuck in that middle tier. They're kind of committed to mediocrity here now for, I would say, at least the next two years. And if they keep operating like this, then even beyond that. I mean, the truth is in two years, there's a good chance. Derek Carr isn't their quarterback. Dennis Allen isn't their coach. And who knows what kind of shape they're in, what kind of conversations we're having about the New Orleans. Real quick. Again, not going to say the C word, but if they, as Rappaport alluded to, structure the contract in a helpful way such that Carr could be on the team this season, you said the car might not be their quarterback in two years. I'm very interested to see what the structure looks like, because if they are keeping it low this year, that means it's going to be hard to get out of

in two or three years. I don't know if it's going to be as easy to kind of bop off of a Derek car with the way this deal has to look like, but we'll know more about that later. Yeah, and the way they operate, honestly, it could be next year. oh, they need to free up some cap space, restructure car, and all of a sudden the guarantees now are even higher in year three or they're going even further, so we'll see how they do base.

Honestly, that could be one of the worst things that happens to them is if car plays pretty well this year and maybe they make the second round in the playoffs and they're like, all right, now we're just, we're even closer. We can make a move, but who knows how that will work out. My take on the car signing is about the ripple effects, and I think the team most affected by this is the New York,

Jets because I think the way the jets have been operating this offseason, you know, my read and you don't have to be a genius to have this be your read, is that their plan A is Aaron Rogers, but I think it helped the New York Jets to at least from a trade leverage standpoint to create the impression that there was a plan B, that he wasn't going to be their only option, that we're not going to give up a wild amount of draft capital to land Aaron Rogers. Well, now your big Plan B, the guy that you met twice with, Derek Carr, is off the table. So now if you're a Jets fan and you're like, wait a minute, what's our plan B again if you don't get Aaron Rogers?

Jimmy Garoppelho? Jacoby Brissette? Like the options are dwindling here. I don't know that any of those moves would really get you excited if you are a Jets fan. So I'm operating under the assumption that there is a trade negotiation already happening with the Packers and Jets or that it is going to happen very soon, whatever. I mean, that has seemed like the obvious moments. move for a while. I look at the Jets and they've done pretty well in trades under Joe Douglas.

I mean, I'm thinking that Jamal Adams trade specifically where you look at that and say, man, they really kind of leverage that situation to a cue. They maximize what they could get for a player like Jamal Adams right there. But I think this one's different because I, it feels so much like there's pressure from ownership here that you better get something done. It better be something big. And hey, my preference is Woody Johnson is for that something big thing to be Aaron Rogers. So that's from the Jets perspective. From a Packer's standpoint, I'm kind of looking at it, Ben, I don't know how you feel

like I have a hard time seeing like a bunch of teams involved, you know, in Aaron Rogers. Like I don't think there are, it's not like the number one overall pick. I'm kind of having a hard time coming up with a bunch of teams that would say, yeah, let's go ahead and give up significant draft capital for the right to pay Aaron Rogers $59 million dollars next year when we don't know if he's going to want to continue to play football in 24. So this is really interesting to me. I mean, a week from right now, the negotiating period to sign free agents begins. And so like the clock is really ticking on this Aaron Rogers thing. And now all of a sudden if you're a Jets fan, you're going, I do not really like the situation

we're in right now as we're one week away from the start of the new league year. this is I if hack it if nithia hack it goes oh and two on attracting rogers I will lose my mind

I will go bananas I do think that like right now the I was about to say what the Packers need more than anything else is a second dancer besides the Jets

in the Rogers trade sweepstakes but that's not true what the Packers need right now more than anything else is like Aaron Rogers to talk to them and tell them what he thinks about

his future playing quarterback that's like the clear one and then number two is kind of figuring out what happens next. But as it stands, like, yeah, car going to the Saints and to the Jets, I think, you know, they did the best to attract car. You saw a report from ESPN's Jeremy Fowler last night that was like, hey, the Jets might be a slight favorite for Carr. They tried to play both hands and say, like, you know, we really want Rogers, but Derek Carr, we're super interested in you and we love you and we hope that you

come here. But you run into a stopping point with that, and they've hit that point. Cars now, like, I want to start my future with the Saints and understandably so. The Jets are now in Rogers or Bust territory. And if Rogers... That's not where you want to be. If Rogers, fine. If bust, holy smokes. I mean, holy smokes.

It is an extremely tough situation for the Jets. I think if they don't get Rogers, they are going to start getting extremely desperate and calling every quarterback who's like ever been even remotely kind of buzzed on the trademark. it. Like, Ron Carth in the gym of the Titans was like, Ryan Tannell is our quarterback.

We are not trading Ryan Tannahill. And if the Jets miss Aaron Rogers, Douglas is hitting Ron and being like, whatever you want for Ryan Tanna. The world for Ryan Tannhill. Because if you end up signing for Jimmy, the guy you could have traded for last year, the guy who's just been ousted multiple times

and like, obviously there's context behind that, but like it's just going to play so poorly. And if you start being bad under Jimmy and Zach Wilson's still on the roster, and you have to go back to Zach. I mean, it's as bad as a quarterback situation has been bungled in league history. So the Packers are 100% right now,

or excuse me, the Jets right now are 100% in Rogers or Bus territory, and that is harrowing stuff. Well, let me ask you this. Now, sometimes, like, we always give credit based on, like, how things turn out, and then you're like, wait, that's not what the team actually wanted to do,

we're intended to do, and like the plan B ends up being the good plan, and everyone gives, oh, this GM's great, and all that happens all the time. in the NFL. So would you rather give up draft capital and acquire Aaron Rogers and pay him a boatload of money

for next year? Or sign I feel like you're just going to start laughing or sign like Jimmy Garapolo and Mike White for under half of what it would take to pay Rogers and you keep all your draft capital and you maybe kick the can down the road for a year?

Just real quick, just real quick, real quick. Every Jets fan who finds my tweet from before last year's draft, where I was like, Joe Douglas' seat is kind of hot. So this was before he drafted, Gary Wilson, Sauce Gardner, Breece Hall, all of whom could have won rookie of the year. This is why I'm worried about our boy Joe is because this quarterback situation is horrible. But regardless, I'm 100% taking Jimmy and Mike White because I just don't want to hitch my wagon of Rogers. Oh, see?

Yeah. Okay. I just, yeah. So maybe it works out for him. Okay, sure. but are we going to call signing Jimmy working out? Is that a workout? Are you not going to hop on the show after the,

we signed Jimmy Grablow to a two-year $74 million contract? Or you're not going to hop out and be like, woo, baby, AFC East is wide open. Like, no, it's just, it's so sad, man. I got my mom texting me. It's tough. Well, this is why ownership matters so much because I think if you ask Joe Douglas that same question,

and he would probably be like he would agree with us. He would be like, yeah, Garapolo and Mike White for, I don't even know what it would be. I mean, you're definitely under, you know, under 30 million. You might be under 20 million. I have no idea what Garoppolo is going to command on the open market. And you kind of have a backup there in Mike White where, hey, Garoppel can't stay healthy.

Yeah, but you have a backup who's okay, who you can play with him. So he would probably be like, let's do that. Let's chill. We won't give up any draft stuff. We'll have a chance next year to make a big splash if we need to. let's see how this year goes. That would be like the way. It goes to the Saints conversation.

Honestly, that would probably be the wiser move when you're looking at team building and what to do and how to build sustained success. But you have an owner. You have an owner and you have a GM like you said who's probably feeling a little bit of heat with his coach. And you have an owner who's saying, come on, this quarterback, Zach Wilson stinks. That didn't work out. We're not just sitting on our hands for another year.

Let's go out and make the big splash. And so I think that's what makes that. an interesting situation where, you know, their hands might be tied a little bit, and the Packers might end up getting what they're asking for for Aaron Rogers. So we'll see how that plays out. Maybe a trade will be announced while we're in like the last segment of the show and we can react to it. All right. My take number two, Benjamin.

I'll go back to back here. Okay. I think that Lamar Jackson's approach is smarter than anyone is giving him credit for you. 100%. I think if you, and I think part of it is. is not to get all, you know, Brian, I don't want to go into like Brian Curtis territory with like, you know, media stuff. That's his area of expertise. But, but I think one thing everyone needs to understand is that certain reporters are beholden to certain agents. Like, they are big time sources

for a lot of the news that gets broken. And so like, I keep seeing stuff about how, like, oh, Lamar Jackson's missing out on endorsements because he doesn't have an agent. And, oh, if he had an agent, this would be done already. I mean, I'm trying to put myself in Lamar Jackson's shoes. And here's how I see it. Every athlete in his position needs to weigh financial security versus maximizing your career earnings. Those are not the same things. You have to make a risk calculation. What is more important to you? How much do you want to bet on yourself? How much do you want to, how much do you value just kind of safety for the long term by maybe taking a little bit less than you could get if you didn't value that same safety? And so I think he's making a bet on

himself. He's 26 years old. He has an MVP under his belt. The rape are 45 and 16 with him as the starter. Ben, I was looking at their EPA per play over the last three years with Lamar Jackson, their sixth in the NFL in offensive EPA per play. Without him, they're 31st in EPA per play. I mean, you can make a strong argument that that is not a great situation, that that is not a situation where if you plug in replacement level, average quarterback, that the thing's still going to move forward. Like, there's a strong statistical. And by the way, that's last three years. That's after his MVP. year. That's not even including if you think, hey, that's an outlier year. This is since then.

Those are the numbers. And so if you're Lamar Jackson and you're sitting at home last offseason and you're looking at a guy you've played against before in Deshawn Watson and you're seeing how many teams are showing interest, I mean, what, at least a quarter of the league is showing some kind of interest in Deshawn Watson, you're having teams bend over backwards to sit in meetings with this guy, showing how they're going to cater their offense to him, showing how they're going to build around him, what they're going to give up, what the Browns ended up giving up,

and then a fully guaranteed deal, and you're sitting at home going, wait a minute, what is he, three games over 500? He hasn't won an MVP. I don't have any off-field issues. I mean, he has two dozen women

alleging mistreatment, and teams are still willing to do this for Deshawn Watson. No, thank you. I'm not going to take anything other than a fully guaranteed deal. And so what you have, have with Jackson is a guy who like the franchise tag is not the end of the world for Lamar Jackson.

I think people are misinterpreting that. That'll put the Ravens in a bind. If they have to use the franchise tag on Jackson, you still, assuming it's the exclusive franchise tag and we can get to that in a minute. If they do that two years in a row, you're pocketing nearly a hundred million dollars for the next two seasons. It's like between 95 and $100 million. And then by the way, you're hitting free agency in your age 28 season. I would have to look back. I don't think there's ever been a player with a quarterback with an MVP under their belt who has been able to test the open market at age 28 and find out what they're worth.

By the way, with the cap increasing two years from now to who knows what number. It's going up. It will be. So I can make a strong argument that if I'm like in Lamar Jackson's camp and I say, listen, there's always going to be the risk of injury, a career altering, a career ending injury. we know what football players go through. There's no doubt about it. But I can say, you know what?

Like if we just look at the percentages of times, that happens for a quarterback of your age, it's a relatively small risk. And so if we want to maximize your career earnings, maximize what you can make playing football for whatever length your career is, that this is actually the smart way to do it and a smart move to not budge,

to not give in, to not say, hey, just giving me the second most amount of guaranteed money in the NFL. that's not enough. I'll sit here. I'll take the franchise tag. We'll play on that for the next two years. And then I'll hit free agency. So that to me, if you boil it down and weed out all the nonsense, that's really all he's doing is he's giving up financial security to maximize his career earnings. Most players are not willing to do that. I understand why, because you take on some risk. But if you're a player of Jackson, it's a very unique situation. If you're willing to take on some of that risk, you're going to end up making a lot of money and having a fine time in your career. What are your thoughts on all those things I threw out with Lamar? I couldn't agree more. Like all anybody, like all a big level like NFL guy talks about is how Lamar doesn't have an agent

and how that's inconveniencing everybody and about how the Ravens have offered deals and Lamar hasn't signed them. And you expect that coverage right from people who like work with agents and people who work at that high level because they're talking with like GMs and owners and whatever. When you go and look at brass tax, Lamar's winning this. Like this PR battle right now between him and the Ravens in terms of like why isn't Lamar signed to deal with sort of deal does Lamar want. Does Lamar committing? Like, you know, what happened with

the injury and like why he didn't play in the playoffs and everything? It's not clean. It's not neat. It's not like, you know, a total knockout in the scorecard. But Lamar's winning this. And a big part of the reason why is because of what you saw kind of on Twitter over the last week, week and a half, Miami Corner Byron Jones starts talking about how he can't broad jump the way he used to because injuries are ruining his career and he never came back from an injury and don't take with the NFL training staffs are telling you to take. And then Eric Acosta makes his comment about drafting receivers and Rashad Bateman goes, hey, why don't instead of you talking about that, you talk about, you know, taking care of us and taking care of number

eight and taking care of your players. You're coming off of injury. And then the report comes out from the NFLPA about quality of life and the Ravens come under criticism for the quality of trainers that they've gotten other ex-players with the Ravens low-level players. Guys didn't even really know where interact with Lamar are talking about how the Ravens' training staff isn't that good. And like, I don't know anything. I don't know Jack about Lamar's injury and how serious it was and whether or not he could have played in the wildcard round. All I know is in terms of the PR battle, in terms of what gets to me, Lamar's winning. Whereas, like, if he, you know, kind of, you know, was taking his recovery a little bit easy,

who wanted to make a point to the Ravens how tough life is without him, like that's an argument I've heard. But right now, to me, like the Ravens aren't winning that exchange, Lamar is. Lamar very much looks to me like an MVP-winning quarterback who's been responsible for all of his team's offensive success and is making contract demands that are in accordance with that. Talk about Lamar not having an agent. He's working with the NFLPA. The NFLPA is helping him in terms of his contract negotiations. Of course the NFLPA is going to push for fully guaranteed contracts.

The more players get fully guaranteed contracts, the better that is for the players. The NFLPA is the Players Association. This is huge for them. I would wager strongly that if you polled just average NFL players, not even average NFL quarterbacks, average NFL players, guys on and on and off of Baltimore's roster, what is Lamar to you right now? The plurality, like the leading response. you'd get would be like he's a champion

for players right now. Like this guy's doing the thing. And I think that's getting into the media into the public understanding of it. Certainly there's like a large contingent in the metropolitan Baltimore that's like, I wish the guy would sign because you want him to be your team's quarterback. But in that in that, you know, unbiased view of just like

of watching the NFL and kind of rooting for individuals, rooting for players, I think Lamar has handled this extremely well and has the Ravens in a very tough spot in terms of how they're handling this. The other thing I would say that I he goes under-talked about and underappreciated in the Lamar contract discourse is this. Lamar's fighting, you talk about financial security, you're talking about maximizing career

earnings. Lamar was a 32nd pick in the 2018 draft. I think because he's like a first-round pick and because he's a quarterback, people think he's made a lot of money. He really hasn't. As the 32nd overall pick, your contract is functionally decided, right? There's a salary amount that's put on each pick. Lamar's deal before the fifth year option was four years and do you have a guess?

I don't even know. No, I have no idea what it was at that time. $9.5 million. That's what he made over the first four years. Four years, $9.47 million. The fifth year option was $23 million. So Lamar has made over five seasons $32 million. You know what Trevor Lawrence's first four years of his contract would be worth?

$36 million. Lawrence is the first overall pick will make more before the fifth year option. Then Lamar made on his contract. contract with the fifth year option. He has made, like, to this point from the NFL, only $32 million, which, yes, it sounds insane for me to say the words, only $32 million in order. But remember, this guy's going to be worth like $50 million per year in his next contract. He's...

Derek Carr just got 37 and a half for you. Per year. He's over $30 and everything. Just to clear what you're, yeah, it is a lot of money in terms of the context of an NFL quarterback, your point is well. So, so, yeah, like, it's like all, like, why is Lamar pushing for more money? because he hasn't, like on the scale of NFL players really made that much

for the amount of snaps that he takes for the amount of hits that he takes, amount of exposure he's got, and how important he is to his team. So I think Lamar, like, we talk a lot like, why is he doing this, whatever? I think Lamar is extremely justified to be fighting for every single dollar inset that he can

relative to how late the NFL drafted him relative to the injury risk that he's accrued now. He's had multiple leg injuries. He is a mobile quarterback. I think he could not possibly be more justified. And then in terms of how this battle is playing out in open air, I think he's ahead. Yeah, I think the key there with kind of the public relations thing that you're talking about

is kind of the way teammates and players talk about him or support him or went after the Ravens, like you mentioned, in the last week. That has really worked in his favor. And like you mentioned, yeah, if you're a player, like initially I was thinking making this take something like he could be viewed as like a trailblazer or something. Now, the reason I don't think that's going to be the case is just because how many guys are quarterbacks with an MVP under their belt at this age. You know what I mean?

If you're like a linebacker who's 28, you don't have the same leverage as Lamar Jackson. So it's going to be harder, but it certainly could help quarterbacks. And if you're like a Joe Burrow or a Justin Herbert or a Jalen Hertz and you're waiting to see what happens here with Lamar, yeah, it certainly could affect you as well. And I think to be clear, those who have listened to this show for the entire year, like Ben, just as a, you know, when we talk about Lamar Jackson, his hierarchy among quarterbacks, is higher on him, I think, than I am. I still like him a lot, but I don't put him in, you know, I think there are legitimate

questions, obviously with the durability, the last two years and kind of the way you build the offense around him. But even with that, like, if I, if he did have an agent and, you know, you would be like, give me a break. Like, they're 45 and 16 with him as a starter and guys get injured all the time. Anyway, so last thing on this is that what's going to be really interesting, and this could happen by the time you actually listen to the show. is if the Ravens use that non-exclusive franchise tag on Lamar Jackson.

And for those who don't know the difference, exclusive franchise tag means it's $45 million for Lamar Jackson, and he signs it. And if he signs it, he plays for the Ravens next year. Non-exclusive means there is an opportunity. It'll be around $32.5 million. Other teams can make offers to Lamar Jackson, and he can sign one of those contracts.

And then the Ravens have the opportunity to either match, the contract he signs or give up two first round picks and let him walk. Now, this will be really interesting if the Ravens take this risk because it's not just a matter of, hey, is there another team willing to give Lamar Jackson a fully guaranteed contract? To give up two first round picks and fully guarantee his contract, I mean, that is a lot. It's not impossible. I actually think there probably would still be a team that would be willing. If the Ravens sign, do you think there were multiple teams?

The Ravens signed Lamar Jackson to the non-exclusive franchise tag. I would wager thousands of dollars that Lamar is not a Raven for 2023. Then the Ravens are trading it for two first roundbacks. I would, I would, the moon, I would wager. You would have to because look at, I mean, again, to go back to the Watson thing, when there's a quarterback at their mid-20s available who's really talented, I mean, there's always going to be teams who want that. I mean, if you're a team like the Atlanta Falcons, I mean, you're doing that in a heartbeat,

right? solves your problem. Yeah, yeah, without questions. That's where this thing could get really, really spicy. If that's the route they go, I don't think they're going to risk it. I think it'll be the exclusive franchise tag, and we'll see where it goes after that. But this story is the biggest story in the NFL this off season. So I was glad we got to talk about it because I do think there's certain spin to it in some of the coverage you see out there.

And I feel strongly that the way we talked about it, that side needs to be represented. All right, Benjamin, what do you have for your second take? Okay. My second take is, Bears' general manager, Ryan Poles, needs to do one of two things. Trade this pick or chill out. Because we woke up this morning to Peter King Football Morning in America, and Ryan Poles was the headliner in the piece,

and I'd like to read you some quotes. He had one wild quote in there. I read it this morning. I hope you get to the wild one. Oh, Drosso. We'll get to the wild one. So Ryan Bowles is talking about trading the pick, and he's having a conversation about what they plan to do,

and we're going to commit to Justin Fields. He likes Justin Fields. I think about trading the picks. King has a series of information about the aggressors, right? Colts and the Panthers, expect the Colts to move up. We've got the Panthers move up. They're both calling about the pick. We know that for sure.

Daniel Jeremiah tweeted out this morning. He thinks Colts and the Panthers are going to be really aggressive trading up for this pick. They're going to try to go get it. they're going to make big offers. Makes sense. They both desperately need a quarterback. Dave Tepper,

the owner for the Panthers, desperate for quarterback, Chris Ballard, Jim Mercy, obviously, everybody knows how the Colts are going down. There we go. Then there's an interested party section. He talks about Houston.

There's an outside shot section. Seattle, Tennessee, he mentions, whatever. So he's kind of like talking through the whole first round pick situation. And then there's a quote from Ryan Poles. Quote,

I'm blessed to be able to read people. I can feel it. There's urgency out there. There's pressure. Sure. Okay, so stop, stop real quick. Ryan, bring it in, brother. Bring it in. He knows, dude, what are you talking about? Bless to read people. What have been blessed to read people? There's urgency, quarterback.

Yeah, dude. Did you watch the football? Okay, so there's like, that's the sort of thing. Like, here's why this is important. Because every single general manager who's going to potentially trade for this bear's pick, every single manager is going to end up reading this piece and seeing this, and they're going to be a little pissed off because there's no need for that comment, okay? That bothers me, and I don't even run a team, okay?

So now you say, okay, Ben, why does that matter? Like, oh, general manager is getting pissed off at something? Okay, well, let's continue. Peter King continues on. You know, an interesting thing to keep in mind. League year begins March 15th. Teams can trade picks from 23, 24, and 25. And then being on draft date,

they can trade picks from 23, 24, 25, and 26. And so, you know, you could see the trade come at the beginning of the league year and you can see it come draftly, whatever. And then the three interested parties at the combine, poll said, included at least one quote. That's further back than I thought. But if I'm going to the next tier on the bear strapboard, you're going to have to make up for that with more capital.

Ryan, we don't need to be blowing up other team spots who are called about the first round pick and then making threats about how much they're going to have to trade to get to the pick. We don't need to be doing this in Peter King's column in the first week of March. Okay, okay.

The interesting part, this is still polls, quote, is having a conversation with one team, and then one hour later, another team texts you wanting in on the trade, and they're not afraid of what the floor of what you're asking for is. He continues on, no one is going to rush me. I know I can get a 24-1 and a 25-1. You're telling me for the next two years, I'll have two ones that's either four really good players or recruiting, we can still trade back.

I know I can get a 24-1 and a 25-1. This is a young general manager telling the entire league, Like, I've got you bent over and I've got control. I have you under my thumb. This is bold talk, man. This is big chest discussion. This is brazen. I don't remember seeing a confidence like this from a team that let's call a spade of spade

has been a laughing stock in the league for the last few years. This is very, very bold. So, I'm fine with it. if you are positive that you've got the Colts by the throat and you've got the Panthers by the throat and it's time to jack up the price. Let's get serious now. You've got eight days where the new league year starts.

Those 25 picks can be traded, which that was the thing I didn't know. I thought the pick was going to be traded like tomorrow. I didn't realize you can't trade 25 picks in 2025 until the new league year begins. And so you got eight days. Let's put these two up against each other. Let's make it very public that we're going to take a big deal.

Let's get them going. Whatever. If that doesn't work, man, oh man, have you painted yourself into a corner here a little bit? I know I can get a 24-1 and 25-1? Yeah, you better, Chief. Like, this, a lot can happen between now and then, man. A lot can go down.

I'm impressed by this, but I'm also a little bit scared of it. So get the pick done, get the trade done, and nobody cares. Or you might need to maybe take a little bit off the pitch because this is really sticking yourself out there. I think it's fine. I don't think it's a big deal. I would assume he already has that offer out there. He's negotiating through a column that everybody in the NFL reads and has read for a very long time.

He's trying to exercise some leverage through the media, through this interview. I think it's all fine. I found the, I have the gift of being able to read people like I let out of LOL for that just because I think NFL GMs are hilarious. and that's just like an objectively funny thing to say is that you have the gift or you can read people and you know there's going to be interest. So you're right. I mean, yeah, if there's a scenario where he does not get at least, like you said, a 24-1 and a 25-1 for moving back, then you're probably right. Like if I was Bears PR, I would probably say, we don't need to go saying that just in case a worst-case scenario happens. But I think it's very likely that he is able

to get that. And the other stuff I just kind of took with a grain of salt. So I wasn't as, I don't know what's, I don't want to say, appalled.

I don't, how would you describe, you described? I'm, like my, it was like, my eyes were popping out of my head

as I kept reading it. I thought it was fun. Like, good, we need fun. Colum. Like, I'm blessed to be able to read people.

I can sense that there's urgency. It's like, I, chief, relax. Like, you go, okay.

You've, you've, you've a gentleman on your job. The game is the game. once we get to, I know I can get a 24-1 and a 25-1. Like, here's my thing with that.

I'll tell him I think of that. What if the Texans call him in two days and say, hey, like, we just want to move up to one. You go to two. We're going to make sure we get our guy. And then you can call it the Colts of 4 and you can call it the Panthers.

You can keep doing everything you've been doing, but we want to make sure we get to one and get our guy. We'll trade you a future first. It changes now. Now, like, you're making, that move and I'm making a different move and now is, are you getting a 24 one and a 251? Like what happens if you get a deal?

That's a best case scenario for them. They move down, they get some picks and then they move down again and get more picks. That's great. Sure. I would worry then about calling the Colts and the Panthers be like, hey, I want my 24 one of my 251 now. And the Colts and the Panthers are going, yeah, no, we're staying. We're calling the Cardinals at three. You just put the Texans in front of us.

No. Like, all I'm saying is it's March 6th. There's a lot. that 251 can't even be traded for the next eight days. There's a lot that goes down. I don't know about this whole like, anyway, I'm talking to these three teams. A fourth team called me.

I was surprised about that. Also, and here's the picks I'm getting. Like, that's a lot of card showing, which again, is fine if you're positive. If you've got the Panthers and the Colts, dead to rights. If you're anything less, buddy, that's a lot. That's a lot of gambling for a young general manager

for a team that tends to fumble these things, lest we remember the Mitchell Trevisky trade. So I'm curious to see it. Are you watching Poker Face? You probably haven't had any time to watch any TV. That's the guy who does Knives Out is doing it. Yeah? It's basically the premise is the woman has a gift

where she can tell when anybody is lying. Yeah, she's Ryan Paul's his sister. Yeah, yeah. There has to be an NFL draft episode. I mean, Jim Mersey calls her in. Hey, listen to Chris Ballard's on the phone with Ryan Pulse. He says he says he's. got this offer from elsewhere.

And she could be like, no, he's lying. I mean, this would be a, listen, it's a great spinoff episode. If anyone from the show Poker Pages is listening, feel free to steal that. You don't even have to give me any credit for that. I was just looking at this. I mean, I think there are going to be so many teams interested. By the way, are we talking? Has there been enough discussion about how the Lions should be in this conversation?

No, no, no, no, no, no. Jared Goff, top three in EPA for play. Jared Goff, Brad Holm's firstborn son. Don't worry about it. It's fine. I mean, it's such a good time for them to do it, too. I'm looking at it. They've got six. They've got the sixth pick here, and they've got the 18th pick here. I mean, you don't even have to go that much into future years to make that move. You could keep golf on for a year. You're not going to be in this situation again. Detroit, think about it. I just feel like they're kind of the forgotten team there in the top 10 that should be really, really considering this. All right, moving on. I enjoy that. It's a good job for you. You entertain me there. The other team is the Falcons.

Yeah, obvious. The Falcons seems so obvious to everyone except the Falcons. Are they just going to sit here and kick the can down the road every year? Yeah, I agree. I think there should be plenty of teams interested right there. All right, I'm up. My final take, Ben, I had to change this at the last second and make my take. I think the Dallas Cowboys are in trouble.

I mean, I'm reading these quotes from Mike McCarthy at the NFL Combine. these are via the Dallas Morning News where Mike McCarthy says, I've been where Kellan's been. Kellan wants to light the scoreboard up, but I want him to run the damn ball so I can rest my defense. I think when you're a coordinator,

you know you're in charge of the offense, but being a head coach, being a play caller, you're a little more in tune with everything. I don't desire to be the number one offense in the league. I want to be the number one team in the league with the number of wins and a championship. And if we've got to give up some production and take care of the ball a little better to get that, that's what we will do because we have a really good defense.

I don't want to go full like analytics, always past the ball mode here. But that is, to me, a quote that completely misidentifies what the Cowboys issues are and how to solve the Cowboys issues, Benjamin. So I will give you a few numbers here to back up why I say that. The Cowboys turned the ball over on 10.8% of their offensive possessions last year. That was slightly better than league average. Yes, it felt like, you know, Dak Prescott had a bunch of turnovers in the second half of the season. We saw that.

Overall, they were actually better than league average if you look at all their offensive possessions and how often they turned the football over. The defense was second in DVOA. You know, Mike, again, Mike McCarthy is saying he wants to rest his defense. They had an amazing defense last year. and football outsiders lets you look at just the fourth quarter. I would assume a defense that needs more rest kind of faltered down the stretch of games. They were the number one defense in DVOA in the fourth quarter last year.

Rest did not seem to be that much of an issue. Okay, let's go to what Mike McCarthy is saying on the offensive side of the ball. They need to run the ball more. Guess where the Cowboys ranked in terms of pass frequency on early downs in neutral situations. This is from RBSMD.com. With DAC or with DAC and Rush? Overall, with both of them. They were 7th. They were 25th. Yeah. In past frequency. Oh, I was doing 7th like that. Which means I got it, right? Or like 7th. I got it. I got it. Don't worry about it. Seventh most run heavy. You were saying, okay, yes.

They were a very run heavy team last year. They passed the ball on early downs at roughly the same rate as the San Francisco 49ers. And by the way, You could make the case that they really should have been passing the football a lot more because their numbers passing the football in early downs were much better than their numbers running the football on early downs. One more for you, Benjamin. How many teams do you think have more wins than the Dallas Cowboys over the last two regular seasons? Ooh. Niners.

Chiefs? Three. One. The Chiefs. The Cowboys have. have won 24 games over the past two seasons. Like 23? I think they've won 24 tips.

So tied for it. Very smart. That's how you do it. That's why you phrase it that way. Professional. One team has won more games than the Cowboys over the last two years. The Chiefs. I look at this and if they were taking a reasonable accounting of their issues,

they would have said, you know what? We were a really good team last year. We didn't have a good playoff game against the 49ers. This has been one of our better two-year stretches in the, a long time. Let's make some tweaks and we'll run it back next year in a wide open NFC and maybe compete for a Super Bowl. Instead, Kellan Moore is gone. Mike McCarthy is taking over play calling and Mike McCarthy is suggesting that they are going to have a pretty dramatic shift in their offensive approach. By the way, they used the franchise tag on Tony Pollard before we recorded

this, which I love Tony Pollard. I think he is one of the most fun running backs to watch in the NFL. I actually had him above Sequin Barkley and Josh Jake. in my free agency top 100 because I think he checks a lot of the boxes you want, even though he's coming off the injury. But right now, the Cowboys, this is according to over the cap, have $28 million in cap space allocated to their running backs next year. No other team is higher than 19. So I feel like I was just going in seven different directions.

But for all those reasons, Ben, I think the Cowboys are in trouble. I do not like what they're doing this offseason. agree or disagree? No, this is... Am I overreactive? This is great for their fans. The fans get to watch Tony Pollard. Have a good time.

The fans enjoy the team. I don't know, whatever the fan takes that you make for the Saints. No, no, the fans, the fan take would be, do what I said, just little tweaks, you'll be okay,

you'll win more games, you can actually compete for a super bowl. I think we spoke to the average Cowboys fan. The fan take would be get rid of DAC and trade for somebody. That might be. You might be right, yeah. No, this Cowboys situation is cursed.

I think we all thought it would be cursed, like, last year coming in. It was like all the Dan Quinn defense is going to regress and, like, McCarthy game management. They just lost that game to the Niners and the playoffs with bad game management. Like, this is all going to come crumbling down. And then Dak gets hurt, and so much of the attention becomes on him because Cooper Rush comes in and wins a few games. And then Dak comes in, and Dak had like a great season, but he didn't have like a record setting season, which is kind of the bar that he's supposed to clear now that he's on a second contract, apparently. And so much of the attention was on Dak.

but now that Kellyn Moore's gone, and we have to remember, they also still lost another play after the game to the Niners with weird, not clock management, just a weird final play, really, is the main thing. Now that Kellan Moore is gone,

there's just going to be so much more visibility, I think on McCarthy, it's going to be harder for him to kind of hide behind the DAC conversation and the Moore conversation that, okay, this is the year, this is the one, we meet it this time. This is the year where the Cowboys' house

comes crumbling down. And that's why, like, Dan Quinn continuing to stay in Dallas as the DC is really interesting, to me. Because I think Dan Quinn would like to become the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. And I think Dan Quinn feels like there's a good shot that he has that opportunity at some point soon.

That's reading tea leaves. I have no idea if that's the case. But there were jobs offered to Quinn and there were interviews offered to Quinn that I would have expected him to take. And he's elected to stay the D.C. in Dallas anyway. And to me, like, that's got to be a big part of the reason why. Yeah. I mean, like you said, their floor is high because they have a good defense.

they've got Michael Parsons, they've got Dan Quinn, they have Daff Prescott, like they're not going to go in the tank next year. But man, I think it's going to be a frustrating year for the Cowboys next year. If what Mike McCarthy says he's going to do is what he actually does next year. So we will see. All right, what is your third take, Benjamin? The third take is this. Two veteran players rumored coming out of the combine now that are potentially on the trade block. That's Titans running back Derek. Henry and Cardinals wide receiver D'Andre Hopkins. They joined Jalen Ramsey as you're kind of like late 20s, early 30s, once stars who were on big deals who maybe we want to move away. Derek Henry, who just turned 29, would be hitting the team that would require him, would require him on a one year, $10.5 million deal. DeAndre Hopkins would be two-year deal, 19.45 million, and then 14.9 the next season. The take is this.

Anybody trading for Derek Henry is outside their mind. Everybody should be trying to trade for Deontre Hopkins right now. To me, this is like a zero-100 sort of a situation. Henry, coming in at 10.5, actually like at first brush, looks decent. The franchise tag, as you brought up, is just over 10 million. So you're placing him functionally as like a bottom, bottom of the top 10 running back contract, and you're getting him before he turns 30. And yeah, he's coming off the list, Frank injury.

but he honestly didn't look too different last year than he did in years previous. He still took on a lot of volume. He's still enormous Derek Henry. You get him in there and you use him as a one-year rental and you go. The problem is that Henry doesn't bring much as a pass catcher. He's huge. He actually doesn't mean it bring a lot as a past protector. He's not great in past protection.

So he's a one phase back and you have to commit to the running game that works for Henry in order for Henry to work for you. You have to go under center. You have to go heavy a person. you have to let him just run between the tackles and rumble and stumble. There is one, and precisely one team in the league, for whom Derek Henry is a hilariously fun idea. And I already can see by your face, you know who I'm talking about, the Atlanta Falcons.

But with Cordero Patterson already under contract and with Tyler Al Jir, who came on very nicely on the stretch as a rookie ad, I don't think they need to. So Derek Henry, to me, is, that's bait. The Titans are very clearly at a huge point in transition. It's something we've talked about a lot on this show in season, how they timed out the Taylor Leone contract and the Ryan Tannhill contract and the Derek Henry contract, all to kind of give them a trap door after the 2023 season. Well, lo and behold, they've moved off from Taylor the Wan, moved on from Bud Dupree,

moved on from Robert Woods, and now they're potentially trading Derek Henry. The Titans very clearly want to reload this thing. I think that's correct and appropriate. It's very interesting that John Robinson got fired for trading AJ Brown and kind of starting that reload, and now it's just continuing without him. It does make me wonder, like, I know Ron Carth and I brought this up earlier, said, we're not training Tannahill. I'd probably still call about Tana Hill.

Like, hey, like, all your other good veteran players are leaving. Are you sure? You don't want to move him? So I do think that, like, the Tannhill thing is something to continue to watch. But Derek Henry, I think it's going to be challenging to move. DeAndre Hopkins, in the other hand. Injured. Suspension.

Not super effective in Arizona. 31. You go, like, all right, like, we, you know, this guy's past his prime. It's not worth it. Oh, man. a potentially like top 10, top 12 wide receiver coming in an APY, a figure under $20 million, and then coming in at $14.9 million next year for a guy who need to separate to be good, right?

This is not like he predicated on athleticism, separation, quickness, DeAndre Codontas. This is just throwing up, chuck it up to the guy and let him go do work. I would be absolutely calling the carnals about DeAndre Hopkins, who I can give you 19,000 reasons why DeAndre Hopkins wasn't like super productive in Arizona this past year coming off of suspension. Kyla Murray getting hurt. Cliff Kingsbury, having no idea what he's doing.

Bad offensive line. Bad cadre rotation of a QB2, QB3, Cole McCoy gets hurt, Shakespeare shortly goes out. David Blau goes out there. I mean, the carnals have been a functional mess since the moment that Deandre Hopkins arrived. I'm not going to, like, I've always been a little bit lower on Hopkins than consensus for what he is as a player. But in terms of like plug and chug jump ball specialist,

wide receiver two who hits you in the red zone. It does not get better than Deodra Hopkins making on average $17.5 million over two years. I think of those two that are being rumored right now, I think the Titans are going to have a lot of trouble moving off of Derek Henry. I think we're going to see DeAndre Hopkins contract get traded. Yeah, Hopkins, the only concern, right, is that he turns 31 in June. So wide receivers in there, you know, he's not 34, but 31. But talking about last year, when he played, he was still pretty good.

I mean, he averaged, he had 717 yards in nine games. You extend that over a full season. That's over 1,300 yard season. And if you just look at their splits over the last two years, Kyler Murray splits with and without Hopkins over the last two years, it's pretty eye-popping. Now, again, coming off a suspension last year, the PED suspension and 31 years old, that would certainly give me some pause at the same time.

You make a good point with the contract. I mean, $17.5 million. We're talking about Christian Kirk type money. And by the way, you can tell me about the, you can confirm this about the draft class. The free agency class for wide receivers, horrendous. You do not want to be shopping for a wide receiver in free agency. And draft class is not good either, right?

To me, it's I get to get a receiver on a contract before the wide receiver contract boom. Like I get to get a guy who signed this deal before all of this happened. To me, like, it's just, like, I want to say, like, for every contending team makes sense. The reality is most contending teams have already handled their wide receiver situation to the point where they're fine. Like, the chiefs aren't going to go big at wide receiver because they just prove that they don't need to, so they're fine.

The Eagles don't need a wide receiver. Like, okay, like dolphins have their guys. You know, okay, like, maybe it makes sense for the Vikings. Like, I kind of like it for the Vikings. I think it makes sense for the Cowboys, right? Michael Gallup, who they signed to the big extension to be a Hopkins-like player. That's a good one. Gallup's been super banged up.

I don't think Gallup's coming back from that AC all the way they need him to. So, okay, get him in the building. I'll tell you right now, Buffalo. Yes, by a mile, DeAndre Hopkins is a hugely impactful player to them. But I think they're still holding out for the O'Dell things. We've got to see how that goes. A lot of these, like, tier two teams, like tier three teams, are like a round contending, a round in the playoffs who don't have that elite wide receiver two.

They don't have Brown and Smith. if they don't have Waddle and Tyreek, like T. Higgins and, and, uh, and, uh, Jamar Chase, Brandon and I, you can Devo Samuel, like everybody. It's a two-year rental on Taylor Hopkins. It, it makes such easy sense. Yeah. And the Henry thing, it's like, I mean, Henry last year still had 1,500 yards rushing. I'm with you. There were stretches last year where I'm just like, he looks like the same guy he's always, uh, looked like. But yeah, I mean, I, you know, I would like to see him go, to a fun offense on a contending team because I really like watching Derek Henry

play football, but that would not be a smart move for any team to give up draft capital for a guy who is going to turn 30 in January who has so many carries under his belt. And then like you said, the money, it's not a crazy amount. Well, you know, one year, 10 and a half million dollars, but again, if you're giving up something for him too,

then all of a sudden it gets kind of tricky. You have to have an offense that works for him. Like, he can't go to the chiefs. Like, oh, yeah, we run a shotgun, inside zone. Yeah. It just doesn't, like he needs to have

eight yards in the back, though, to build up ahead of steam. You don't get that from, like, and the offenses you do get that from, although the Browns. Nick Chubb,

like, oh, the Vikings. Cook was not great this year, but still, you're just going to stay with the guy who brought you. Like, you don't,

there's no spot for Derek County besides Atlanta, but I don't think Atlanta's going to do it. Yeah, initially I was like, the team I was kind of smiling at is the team you root for, but obviously that's,

they, they're under center less than, any team in the NFL and they're the last team to trade something for the right but my gosh, you have to admit there's at least 10 seconds in your head where you go ooh, Jail it hurts Derek Henry and that all

line, that would be like your preferred brand of football. If the Eagles traded for Derek Henry, they'd play them at tight end. It'd be amazing. It'd be so good. They'd put them as like upback and they'd hit them off like jet sweeps and it would be ludicrous and hilarious. Yeah, it sounds there would be one of those stats. If they did

that, there would be one of those stats where like teams the week after playing the Eagles are like oh and 13 because their defense just has hurt feelings. It just hurts. Yeah, it's in pain. All right. I'm going to finish us off with just some predictions. And again, hopefully these aren't outdated by the time you listen to it.

But, man, Ben, it feels like we've been talking about these guys for like three months. And next time we come on, we're going to have actual moves and trades to discuss next Monday, if we're not on before then, with breaking news. But I just wanted to tell you where I think the quarterback dominoes are going to fall. and you can agree or disagree with me. We already have car in New Orleans. I still think Rogers to the Jets is happening. If you had to wager whatever is in your pocket right now,

percent chance. I think it's over 50. I would say 71.5. All right. I would go a little lower. 63. A little lower. But 63.

Okay. I still think he ends up with a judge. I think Jimmy Garapolo ends up signing with a judge. I think Jimmy Garapolo ends up signing with the Las Vegas Raiders. What do you think about that one? Garapola. Is there another team you'd like for him? Yeah.

Jim, Jim, that was fine for me. I mean, those really are the big names. I mean, I think Daniel Jones will see if his contract gets done. Now, Lamar, I guess I didn't say Lamar. What does your gut say is going to happen with Lamar Jackson? You kind of think he's getting traded, I think. Oh, I wouldn't be shot. I wanted to ask you this, because I remember when we did this at the end of last season,

and you asked me what percent chance I had as Lamar's a Raven. I made like 60-40 Lamar's a Raven. And you were at like 90-10 at the time. Where are you at? Yeah. That he's on the Ravens, I would say, as what, the week one starter in 2023? Is that all? Yeah, I'm even not to say just like, on the Ravens in 20203.

Maybe he's holding out on the tag. On the Ravens. Okay. I would say I'm at like 65, 35, 35. Yep, come home. There it is. I'm, yeah. It would be, would it be more fun league-wide if he could, it would suck for Ravens fans?

I mean, that is not a player you want to see your team trade. It would suck for Ravens fans, especially because you know they come out and be like, we have a Pro Bowl quarterback and Tyler Huntley. And you'd be like, no, no, that's made up. That's not real. It didn't happen. But what I will say is the Atlanta Falcons offense with Lamar J. Jackson will make me feel better right quick. It'll make me feel better right quick.

It's, um, you get a young QB in the NFC, by the way. You, you kind of start eveninging that out a little bit. Now you have Lamar and Jalen Hertz in the NFC. I think that would probably be more fun from an objective, what we do league-wide. But again, I'm telling you, like, if Lamar is on the non-exclusive tag, everybody is going to be calling and trying to make the deal. Everyone, right? And if you think, Oh, not everyone. The Browns were talking about how much they liked Baker Mayfield until four seconds before they signed the Deshawn Watson deal and they traded for him.

It's the name of the game. Welcome to the NFL, welcome to the Big Boy League. I would put it right now, Lamar's on the Ravens, week one, at like 48%. I'm like 40-50 too. Oh, under 50. If I lean under 50. Oh, baby. Yep.

Okay. I like it. The most fun outcome for us is that they do use the non-exclusive franchise tag because then we got some good content coming up baby who's calling where is he signing who's giving him the full guarantee how does that thing go so that would be fun so we'll see how that plays out all right that's it for this edition of extra point taken like i said we'll definitely be back next monday night we'll probably do because we want to let some of that negotiating some stuff happen on that monday so we can talk about it who knows if there's big news before then we may be back

this feed talking about it then. Thank you to Ben Solac. Thank you to Cliff Augustine for producing additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ram Gopal. We will be back next week on the Ringer NFL.